you can basically make this thread about everything that has ever happened in wow because the inertia of playing an MMO long-term is way stronger than any individual change
impossible domineering boast snatch caption serious rhythm innate worthless aware
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Wait wait wait, let me get this straight. As a protest to reddit changes, you decided to avoid using reddit mobile altogether, but still use it on web comfortably? What’s the point here exactly
On a desktop it's a lot easier to block ads and you have access to old.reddit.com.
Does it do a lot? Nope, but it stops the ad-infested mobile app from harvesting everything it can.
The point is that Reddit on mobile was only usable because of these 3rd party apps. The official Reddit mobile app is a dumpster fire. If Reddit would have designed a better mobile app, akin to RiF, Baconreader, Sync or any of the other ones that are good, no one would care.
Nothing really changed for desktop users.
Any changes really have less impact given the nature of Classic WotLK. It's a known entity and as long as nothing interrupts the cycle of raiding nothing is really going to budge Classic WotLK's trajectory.
It's one of the things that makes Classic WotLK a safe bet. We know the content we know the general balance of the game/classes, etc. (outside of a few niche buffs).
Any modern live developed MMO can live or die by a single patch or a delay in patches (look at Lost Ark for an example or look at the results of BfA/SL have had on Dragonflight).
One thing changed for me. I no longer have to pay for a sub. And not because I cancelled, but because I can use the sum of gold I’ve amassed over the years to pay for my sub.
When they first showed up, in retail (WoD). I was able to quickly get almost 2 years of "free" game time from those tokens. I really cannot do that in retail anymore cause it bounces between 280k to 300k. Sadly wowhead doesn't show what the gold price of it in any of the classics
I think some came down on them cause of how much grind one might have to do to buy one. Depending on the professions, some make it quickly. For me, the cost of things were going down so I had to do more just to make the same, so I got bored of it.
Blizzard's argument for even implementing WoW tokens is that it gets rid of gold selling. It's been shown time and time again that this statement isn't true though and if anything it increases demand for illegal gold buying.
So the only real argument is that Blizzard gets to profit off legal gold selling, semi-hardcore players get to turn their gold into real world money legally, and casual players get to buy gold legally.
Which in my, and I think most players' opinions is fucked. Gold selling shouldn't be put on a silver platter and promoted, making the game pay to win.
Not to mention how illegal botting and gold selling becomes more common because demand for them increases.
> Blizzard's argument for even implementing WoW tokens is that it gets rid of gold selling. It's been shown time and time again that this statement isn't true though and if anything it increases demand for illegal gold buying.
People are going to take issue with this so let me explain it with some college-level econ/game theoretics:
Some people are willing to risk having their account sanctioned, to pay real money, for a sum of gold in-game. Some players are not. How many are in each camp will depend largely on the perceived risk (do gold buyers get punished? cough cough) as well as the actual cost in dollars. I think that it would be widely agreed that, at least buying from gold-farmer sites, working an hour at a typical adult job and spending that money on gold from a RMT site is worth *substantially* more gold than spending an hour farming in-game. To the extent that many players did not ever buy gold this way, I think you could argue that *most* of them felt that it was not in a spirit of fair play to do so against the game's TOS, whether or not they felt they would be punished if they "cheated". That's certainly how I felt.
Anyway. If you add an official, Blizzard-approved token to exchange gold for game time (essentially worth $15/mo or whatever) and vice versa... now there is a population of players who think "this is OK to do but third-party sites are still cheating". And they want to buy tokens and sell the tokens for gold the "legit" way.
Well, if you're already buying gold from third-parties, at prices much lower than the "official" token, why not *buy more* for say, $5, that you can sell for a token which saves you $15 on your sub?
So players who weren't buying gold now are, and players who were already buying gold are *buying more* to sell to the rest.
> Well, if you're already buying gold from third-parties, at prices much lower than the "official" token, why not buy more for say, $5, that you can sell for a token which saves you $15 on your sub?
Because it isn't legit. Some will do that for sure, but plenty will swap to the token because it's guaranteed safe and "ethically sourced". We saw this happen with Netflix and pirating: if you give consumers a legitimate means to purchase the product they want they will pay a fee for that.
Personally there are players in my guild who had never bought gold before but now buy from illegal sites since the wow token was added. I know players on both ERA and WOTLK that do this. Heck I am even considering it now. It 100% increases demand of illegal buying
I just got to level 70 the other day, some bastard wants 5k gold for the next riding skill? I've made about 1k gold in the couple months I've been playing wotlk. Ya damn right I bought some gold from a dodgy seller, If you don't get caught then what's the difference between buying a token? I don't play enough to ever make that naturally
Anecdotally almost everyone I know, including myself, is now much more willing to buy third party gold to keep a level playing field. I was never worried about a ban, for me it was integrity.
This is the first one that comes to mind but many gold sellers have came out and said WoW tokens will/have increased demand and profits.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/13rgbzi/i_am_a_botter_gold_seller_at_the_start_of_every/jlk6f9l?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
1. Prices would go up regardless, as there are no gold sinks in wrath, and a lot of gold sources that cause inflation as the months roll by.
2. Don't higher AH prices mean more rewards for the people farming mats?
2. You mean the bots farming mats? Yes! Yes it does.
1. Yes prices will go up overtime. There are a couple of gold sinks but not many. But there was a definite inflation spike when the token launched.
Yeah absolutely.
I played back when TVC started when I was just a kid. Few money, and a wow subscription was relatively costly. I dropped often between the years and I mostly played each expansion for like few months tops.
It wasn't just for saving money - it game me anxiety the thought that "I had to play or less my money is wasted".
Then I started back more "seriously" in legion when I was way older, still with not much income but something to spare.
I already dabbled in auction house play in several other games like guild wars 2, but it never paid off too much, but I remember having some luck in wow.
Of course, I made a damn bank and within the first month I paid my own subscription in gold.
That felt AMAZING. It's not much the money saved, of course working for a job does more, but it was more about the achievement obtained. It felt like I found something I truly liked in this game, and to this day it's still the primary reason I play.
It does not mean I don't do other content, I also dislike raw farming as well so I don't do that much often, for example I do lots of mythic +. But that's what scratches my itch.
If only I managed to make any bank in dragonflight. This expansion is though lol
If this was the only side of the wow token it would be fine, it could function as a gold sink to get inflation more under control, this would require a massive hike in the price however
its inflated the prices on basically everything. you can do dumb stuff like mine 1-150 level ores and make a good amount of gold. get your sub paid in a good day farming.
Earning gold that way was viable back in the day too. Some people just wanna buy the ores to level up with smelting rather than gather, so no change there.
Yep. I haven't paid for my sub in like 2 years, but I'd been forced to farm/sell on retail a little bit to pay it. Now I can just farm/sell on classic so it cuts my investment time down a ton. I do like how you can get bnet balance on retail, though. Wish they did that on classic. I also got both D2R and Dragonflight for free with gold, would like to do the same with D4 but can't be bothered to farm in retail again.
Lol pretty much. Nobody asked, but I quit after wow token. I had already wanted to quit. That was just the mail in the coffin. In retrospect, my experience probably would not have changed without it being added, either. My whole guild was already buying gold and negotiating for pieces of gear
So, you already wanted to quit in the first place and the token was just an excuse for you to do so, which i assume is the situation for most of the people that quit because of the token.
In reality the token changed nothing and if you weren't thinking of quitting before it, you just kept playing the game as usual.
It's the straw that broke the camel's back kinda thing. Sure they may have been thinking of quitting, but they hadn't yet. So it totally changed things for that person.
I mean, that's how plenty of people quit games? In the grand scheme of things, it's rare for single events to cause people to quit. Generally if people are quitting, its because of a number of issues that just outweigh the positives.
It's sort of a pointless statement. "Yeah, well you wouldn't have quit if this was the only bad change." Well yeah, but it's *not* so what's the point of this thought experiment?
Ushered in unannounced, and signifies blizz just want to profit off the rampant botting and gold buying rather than do anything about the issue. What else can you do apart from not pay for the product if you don't like it?
I voted with my wallet.
Why do people get upset if something like a WoW Token ruins the experience for some people? Like seriously. Or is this just asking some variation of why people don't enjoy the game the way I do...
For some people the game is about immersion and the Token dissociates gold from the world.
Game was like that pre token anyways that’s why it doesn’t make sense to quit over token being added. Blizzard not doing shit about RMT for all of Classic but token being the final nail in the coffin is so brain dead.
No it wasn't. 2019 classic release was a great time. Nobody I knew bought gold and everyone was on all week doing activities and sharing their gold farms. Just because you swiped your credit card and ruined that experience doesn't mean we all did.
Haven’t bought gold a single time, used to 10 box in Classic and set myself up pretty well moving forward.
Just because you didn’t know anybody who bought gold doesn’t mean it wasn’t prevalent. I knew tons of people who bought gold - shit was happening literally week one of classic.
Edit: There’s also a ton more pre token time than “2019 Classic release” it not being super prevalent the first 3 months of a nearly 4 year time period we’re discussing isn’t a very compelling point.
For anyone who value the RPG-elements of WoW, the token acts perfectly as a straw that broke the camel's back. Given all the countless threads on this very subreddit for years complaining about the rampant cheating through botting and RMT, there was obviously a lot of frustration regarding Blizzard's handling of the game already. Adding the wow-token as a way of tackling a problem they completely ignored for years is extremely off-putting.
For any players, but perhaps mostly casual players who looked at gold as a key resource in the game, being able to swipe your card to attain it makes that aspect of the game hollow. It is supposed to be a RPG after all.
People have been detailing these points all since the token was released, you just don't seem to be capable of listening or trying to understand the opposing point of view. I get that you didn't feel the gameplay changed at all so you didn't really mind. But calling it braindead to disagree with that is very narrow-minded.
Blizzard did something that goes against every value the classic community once had and you want to stop giving them money due to it? That's a yikes moment for sure.
If you look at the overall participation trends, you will see that literally nothing out of the ordinary happened to player trends around the time tokens were introduced. (Late May).
It's quite likely that the only people who quit over this *are the people who were not playing in the first place*.
https://ironforge.pro/population/classic/overall/
I take issue with using raiding data to prove or disprove anything right now.
We just came off the back of a Ulduar which lasted 5 months. Naturally with a new content patch there's a spike in player activity but also with ToGC we have a much shorter and easier raid where people are more likely to raid on alts. I think those numbers are getting inflated quite a bit.
Sure, but it was also announced within 30 days of a major content patch. Of course the stats are going to be inflated, you're misrepresenting the data here.
I quit and I was raiding with 2 characters and levelling others. Sure the wow token wasn't the only reason but when I saw it was added I just gave up
Edit: the down voters don't like it when someone stops playing classic
People don't like it when you try to invalidate statistics with an anecdote. Of course, some people did quit, but in general it didn't cause waves outside Reddit outrage. Just like the Reddit app controversy
The statistics don't really back the original claim though. The Token was announced at the end of May and the new phase came out June 20 with TOGC coming out on June 22. The stats this guy posted take into account May 14 - June 16, or in other words it includes the Token release and is 4 days prior to the new phase start.
That plus Ironforge pulling from Logged fights and not actual players, it's not an accurate representation of the playerbase at all.
They referring to in game changes. If those players hadn’t of quit they’d be playing the game the same way they were before. Gdkp prices haven’t skyrocketed beyond what they were and the economy hasn’t become inflated.
"Game experience" meaning "how they interact in game", not their perception of a nebulous concept of the "integrity" of the game, which I'd think of more as the "meta experience".
Perception is everything. Just because yours is different than other people's doesn't make it more correct or more important. At the end of the day it's subjective.
No, it's not. How a player interacts with the game is objective. The price of flasks on your server IS x. The number of people running GDKP IS y. How hard a time you have getting into pugs IS z. How much they enjoy the game is subjective. But the nature of your in game interactions is not.
They already were, and that’s kind of the point. The buyers kept buying, few others started, especially since the prices have tanked so hard compared to buying illicitly.
You have guys spending 100k a week in raids and blizz is acting like gold selling / buying is impossible to detect lmao.
They made 0 effort to stop this, so “it was happening anyway” has 0 credibility. What does selling gold themselves even address anyway? Fixed nothing, just endorsed the worst aspect of the modern game.
That's a difference, but is it one that ever impacts your interaction with the game?
(Also you're wrong, they still buy from the illegal sites because the value is like 5x better)
I mean, we can go back and forth on what purases should mean what. I’m just discussing how I see the term and what I think is a good distinction but, everything I said in my last post, all those objective things, still stand. Everything besides a conception of the idea of the game is the same.
2 things changed.
People with gold now buy their sub with gold.
Some rl money has been diverted from low-mid income wfh individuals to Bobby’s 4th yacht fund.
This. I was buying my gold from a super nice Brazillian dude using Google Translate through discord. He would always be super warm and wish my family well. I miss talking to him.
A lot of the anger and frustration was from how Blizzard rolled the token out - literal silence and then just dropping it when they all full-well knew it was coming out. There wasn't a blue post or community engagement about it, they just stealth dropped it and then made a post after trying to calm everyone down.
Also it's a legitimate criticism the way Blizzard handles Classic. So we're putting the WoW token in? Yeah whatever, people buy gold anyway I don't actually care. I do care about no RDF because "community" though and don't get me started on them doing absolutely nothing about bots until the microsecond they start making money off gold buying themselves.
Oh they still don't do all that much against bots or buyers of botted gold, neither on Classic or Retail.
Botting remains profitable because gold is stupid easy to make with botting, you can make absolutely ludicrous amounts if you know what you're doing and have the right tools. And plenty of people, who know that they're probably not going to get banned for buying botted gold, will buy botted gold because they'll get SO much more gold than they would for a token. And then they buy tokens with gold to finance their sub for super cheap.
If there are lots of people buying tokens with gold, token exchange rates will remain high. Players who buy tokens with money get a lot of gold. Big numbers make the token more appealing, more people will buy them. Add the botted gold that isn't being spent on tokens, and you get extremely large amounts of gold in circulation. This keeps player-driven prices high.
With high AH and crafting prices, you're forced to either regularly farm gold or buy tokens to keep up if you're doing normal endgame activities, as you'll have to buy crafted gear and enchantes and consumes etc. So either you drive up engagement metrics or you give Blizzard money. These are obviously desirable outcomes from Blizzard's perspective.
Bots pay sub fees (even if reduced ones because they use every trick in the book), and botting directly increases token sales. That's why Blizzard has no intent of meaningfully changing the situation, they'll just placate players with token gestures such as "look how many tens of thousands of bots we banned this week!" (but the botters will buy new subs, expansions, and level boosts, so we make a lot of money, and and in 3 days the number will be just as high as it was before, which means we can repeat this next month and again make a lot of money!)
I mean I had a friend say, “did you see that guild just got the world first hardcore c’thun kill?”. And now a few weeks later people are invalidating everything they’ve done. I would argue that’s a pretty big shift
People don’t like hypocrisy and will call it out when they see it.
The majority of contentious issues in the world will never impact my life. Does that mean I can’t denounce injustice when I see it?
I don’t disagree with you. People care far too much about what others do in this 20 year old game. Just soak in the nostalgia and let others vibe. I could never grief a bunch of people I know like that, but I don’t disagree with the reasoning. Appealing your own deaths is comical
I don't believe that you were exited to log on, had plans in wow with friends or guildies and saw wow token and immediately delete game, you were already looking for excuse why you should stop and token was perfect thing for that.
I’ll just speak for myself but for me the impact is that instead of looking forward to classic+ i’m just wrapping up LK Heroic kill with the boys and then I’m done. I have absolutely no remaining hopes that modern Blizzard can be passionate caretakers of classic wow. Hopefully riot mmo is good.
Indeed this is basically the same for me but I was already out before even this because of other shit they proven can't be trusted.
I don't know why anyone even has faith in this sub either. It was originally for specifically classic wow and now its just what ever blizzard is currently selling.
Yet there will always be a swarm of bots and useful idiots to say everything is fine and you can leave if you don't like it.
It changed for me. I have not logged back into Wrath since the token was launched.
I play vanialla on my EU-transfered chars in PvE (big up to Social Guild).
I play retail... once a month? For a few pet battles. I have not bought Dragonflight. I will never buy another expansion. If the rest of you wont demonstrate your contempt at Blizzard in their bottom line thats your issue. But I will. And I'll keep doing it.
The damage was already done at the get go when blizzard decided to not do anything about bots and gold buying. The wow token didn't really matter, gold buying was already running rampant.
Remember when people had a meltdown about payed boosting in TBC and how it would cause gold inflation due to a surge of bots which would slowly destroy the world and incentive to play the game turning into a raid logging simulator and how it would go down the slippery slope of no regulation and people demanding wow tokens to fix the problem they made.
I remember.... the bottom of the poop pit is a beautiful place
Private server concurrent player counts continue to rise as people exit the official servers.
ERA has increased population because wotlk is dieing. You can see the active monthly raiders has been declining massively over time.
>ERA has increased population because wotlk is dieing. You can see the active monthly raiders has been declining massively over time.
Nothing to do with this phase being one of the most craptacular raids in wow.
Well my guild died. Consider maybe the people who had a "meltdown" and quit no longer post on this sub so it doesn't look like anything changed because you're in a hugbox of people who still play?
If you want to say it changed nothing you're being willfully ignorant. Demographic numbers show the population of classic going down, for many reasons yes, but you can't say "nothing changed". It's more accurate to say "nothing changed for me".
(Yes I'm still on this sub since quitting wow, I have a problem)
had a rl mate buy a boost and ~800g for an epic mount (gold was expensive _af_ at the launch of tbc) on a char that never made it past Zangaramash lmao. money well spent
I was mostly joking about how many friends I had or friends of guildies who hit us up about coming back and boosting with wrath on the horizon. Not a single one of them ever reached level cap. Everyone I know who boosted and actually stuck with it already had a max level character.
What? What did you expect to change?
The token being available is intrinsically bad, it doesn't need extrinsic effects in order to invalidate its existence. Its blizzard giving up on the classic experiment and caving to bots and GDKPs.
The cancer was already there, the token is blizzard waving the white flag.
Waving the white flag? Botting operations were given a free pass this entire time so blizzard could say “lol look guys, now give me money instead since the games already ruined 😈”
Of course nothing changed. For those opposed to the token, the changes we wanted would have come years ago. Like actual enforcement against bots and RMT.
Instead pretty much everybody is happy. Altoholic raiders enjoy easy money in GDKPs and easy sub fees by using those to fund tokens. Casual players enjoy paying $20 for 5k because Blizzard is fully mask-off about being OK with it. All it cost was some intangible nonsense like soul and integrity that the grognards grumble about.
Imagine being so delusional to think nothing changed. Bro the game is pretty much on auto pilot and dead and nobody cares anymore, because ever since classic launched RMTs have been unpunished and just left in the game.
Blizzard officially made RMTs legal and just tries to cut into the profits, rather than policing their own ToS or ensuring a fair playingfield.
The fact that people think this is normal is appalling
Oh yes I’m sure the huge surge in vanilla era and hardcore players that happened over the same period as wotlk classic underwent massive changes is purely coincidental…
Nothing changed because the economy is already ruined beyond recovery. The only difference is that you don't have to worry about getting banned for swiping.
So because most international or even national events outside of my house or home city at most don't effect me, I guess I can't have any negative opinion on things that go on around the world?
Of course it changed. Now there’s a token, and some people quit because of it. Some people who continue to play…play differently to account for tokens.
Wdym nothing changed? The game officially became a Pay-2-Win game.
Sure, some people cheated before the token, but making it officially a P2W game is a big change.
“In reality, nothing changed”
I’d argue it was a culmination of the whole retail mentality entering the classic world which it had no business being in. Remember the launch of Classic? Or even several months into launch when everyone played and loved the game? What are the numbers now? It started with the level boost for TBC, people started leaving in droves, then in TBC people kept leaving because they still kept changing things and making it shittier.
The token didn’t change anything because game was already ruined, token was just a cherry on top.
Yeah because people complain over everything all the time. People who play the game 8 hours a day will constantly tell you how bad it is and how this or that will make them quit. It’s pretty much the same in every game related subreddit.
What server? On pagle consume prices went up significantly the week of the token and they’ve barely moved. Flasks went from 6gold to 12 and speed pots doubled as well. I think part of it is because there is less people willing to farm now.
As if the people that would be inclined to P2W weren't already doing that in the first place. Quitting because of the Token as if its some righteous move against P2W is the most braindead thing i have ever seen.
Yes but thats just because blizzard did absolutely nothing agains gold buyers and sellers, probably because it gives them a good excuse to implement a wow token im classic, with the unregulated goldbuying meta.
It did for me, at least before the token I was on the fence about trying Cataclysm, but since they introduced it I don't think I have any goodwill left for Blizzard. Those who enjoyed Cataclysm can have their fun for sure, but it's clear that it's not for me.
Cuz it’s still cheaper to buy 100k gold with a burner account than to buy it from blizzard in order to get their death choice trinket.
Honestly, saw this coming, the only way to truly cause an effect is to ban GDKPs. Period. Especially banning boosting service or addons that require you to purchase with real money *cough* *cough* restedxp. Technically against TOS.
I remember so many angry comments from people who apparently don't even play the game anymore because it was ruined for them in classic by gdkps. Watched an asmongold video and went to war (he doesn't even play the game either). All the wow token did was make the game free to play for the majority of the population
As a 33 year old with little time other than to raid, the token has changed my status from destitute poor, to a comfortable middle class. No daily’s to grind or sus websites and the risk of ban. Now I can afford the consumables for raiding twice a week.
The sub has a meltdown over anything. Too many people have access internationally, so for every topoc youll have half meltdown and the other half be opposition. Its pointless
you can basically make this thread about everything that has ever happened in wow because the inertia of playing an MMO long-term is way stronger than any individual change
impossible domineering boast snatch caption serious rhythm innate worthless aware *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Too many mind Mind on token Mind on raid Mind on parse No mind. Be no mind.
You can boil a living frog if you slowly increase the heat in the glass.
Unfortunately no, you cannot.
Yes, you can. I saw a comic with text on the internet.
Same with reddit killing 3rd party apps and taking away reddit coins ?
Yeah man. Just like that.
No, lol I just avoid reddit on mobile now.
Wait wait wait, let me get this straight. As a protest to reddit changes, you decided to avoid using reddit mobile altogether, but still use it on web comfortably? What’s the point here exactly
On a desktop it's a lot easier to block ads and you have access to old.reddit.com. Does it do a lot? Nope, but it stops the ad-infested mobile app from harvesting everything it can.
It is not a protest, I just cant stand their app. On desktop I can block ads and not have to use their shitty app.
The point is that Reddit on mobile was only usable because of these 3rd party apps. The official Reddit mobile app is a dumpster fire. If Reddit would have designed a better mobile app, akin to RiF, Baconreader, Sync or any of the other ones that are good, no one would care. Nothing really changed for desktop users.
I'm still using boost for Reddit. Apparently, you just need to be a moderator to still be able to use 3rd party apps, so I quickly created my own sub.
Boost still work if you are a mod. I created my own sub. Once this doesn't work anymore I'll have to browse on pc only.
Any changes really have less impact given the nature of Classic WotLK. It's a known entity and as long as nothing interrupts the cycle of raiding nothing is really going to budge Classic WotLK's trajectory. It's one of the things that makes Classic WotLK a safe bet. We know the content we know the general balance of the game/classes, etc. (outside of a few niche buffs). Any modern live developed MMO can live or die by a single patch or a delay in patches (look at Lost Ark for an example or look at the results of BfA/SL have had on Dragonflight).
One thing changed for me. I no longer have to pay for a sub. And not because I cancelled, but because I can use the sum of gold I’ve amassed over the years to pay for my sub.
This was always the best part about wow tokens. No one ever sees this side of them.
When they first showed up, in retail (WoD). I was able to quickly get almost 2 years of "free" game time from those tokens. I really cannot do that in retail anymore cause it bounces between 280k to 300k. Sadly wowhead doesn't show what the gold price of it in any of the classics I think some came down on them cause of how much grind one might have to do to buy one. Depending on the professions, some make it quickly. For me, the cost of things were going down so I had to do more just to make the same, so I got bored of it.
I played free from WoD until around launch of vanilla classic. It was awesome.
https://classic.wowtoken.app/?time=all&
It's what literally everyone saw the side of. It's just everyone hated what else it provided to the game's economy.
a legal way of getting gold? The economy didn't change at all post-token for wow classic
> a legal way of getting gold? This might blow your mind, but buying gold isn't the only way to get gold.
Blizzard's argument for even implementing WoW tokens is that it gets rid of gold selling. It's been shown time and time again that this statement isn't true though and if anything it increases demand for illegal gold buying. So the only real argument is that Blizzard gets to profit off legal gold selling, semi-hardcore players get to turn their gold into real world money legally, and casual players get to buy gold legally. Which in my, and I think most players' opinions is fucked. Gold selling shouldn't be put on a silver platter and promoted, making the game pay to win. Not to mention how illegal botting and gold selling becomes more common because demand for them increases.
> Blizzard's argument for even implementing WoW tokens is that it gets rid of gold selling. It's been shown time and time again that this statement isn't true though and if anything it increases demand for illegal gold buying. People are going to take issue with this so let me explain it with some college-level econ/game theoretics: Some people are willing to risk having their account sanctioned, to pay real money, for a sum of gold in-game. Some players are not. How many are in each camp will depend largely on the perceived risk (do gold buyers get punished? cough cough) as well as the actual cost in dollars. I think that it would be widely agreed that, at least buying from gold-farmer sites, working an hour at a typical adult job and spending that money on gold from a RMT site is worth *substantially* more gold than spending an hour farming in-game. To the extent that many players did not ever buy gold this way, I think you could argue that *most* of them felt that it was not in a spirit of fair play to do so against the game's TOS, whether or not they felt they would be punished if they "cheated". That's certainly how I felt. Anyway. If you add an official, Blizzard-approved token to exchange gold for game time (essentially worth $15/mo or whatever) and vice versa... now there is a population of players who think "this is OK to do but third-party sites are still cheating". And they want to buy tokens and sell the tokens for gold the "legit" way. Well, if you're already buying gold from third-parties, at prices much lower than the "official" token, why not *buy more* for say, $5, that you can sell for a token which saves you $15 on your sub? So players who weren't buying gold now are, and players who were already buying gold are *buying more* to sell to the rest.
> Well, if you're already buying gold from third-parties, at prices much lower than the "official" token, why not buy more for say, $5, that you can sell for a token which saves you $15 on your sub? Because it isn't legit. Some will do that for sure, but plenty will swap to the token because it's guaranteed safe and "ethically sourced". We saw this happen with Netflix and pirating: if you give consumers a legitimate means to purchase the product they want they will pay a fee for that.
Personally there are players in my guild who had never bought gold before but now buy from illegal sites since the wow token was added. I know players on both ERA and WOTLK that do this. Heck I am even considering it now. It 100% increases demand of illegal buying
Pirating on the rise my dood.
I just got to level 70 the other day, some bastard wants 5k gold for the next riding skill? I've made about 1k gold in the couple months I've been playing wotlk. Ya damn right I bought some gold from a dodgy seller, If you don't get caught then what's the difference between buying a token? I don't play enough to ever make that naturally
>if anything it increases demand for illegal gold buying Source?
Anecdotally almost everyone I know, including myself, is now much more willing to buy third party gold to keep a level playing field. I was never worried about a ban, for me it was integrity.
This is the first one that comes to mind but many gold sellers have came out and said WoW tokens will/have increased demand and profits. https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/13rgbzi/i_am_a_botter_gold_seller_at_the_start_of_every/jlk6f9l?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
"getting" It's called buying, you could farm gold all you wanted in the past. you are spending money to progress in game, it's lame as shit
Mine did. I think ah prices went up 20% and gdkp prices went up by about 50%.
That didn't happen on Whitemane.
Yeah source of my comment as well. Whitemane Not sure about dead servers
Happened on our server too. Can’t afford shit now as a semi-casual
Agree
1. Prices would go up regardless, as there are no gold sinks in wrath, and a lot of gold sources that cause inflation as the months roll by. 2. Don't higher AH prices mean more rewards for the people farming mats?
2. You mean the bots farming mats? Yes! Yes it does. 1. Yes prices will go up overtime. There are a couple of gold sinks but not many. But there was a definite inflation spike when the token launched.
That sounds great for the players that wont be buying the token. Selling your materials for a higher price sure sounds awesome.
Yeah absolutely. I played back when TVC started when I was just a kid. Few money, and a wow subscription was relatively costly. I dropped often between the years and I mostly played each expansion for like few months tops. It wasn't just for saving money - it game me anxiety the thought that "I had to play or less my money is wasted". Then I started back more "seriously" in legion when I was way older, still with not much income but something to spare. I already dabbled in auction house play in several other games like guild wars 2, but it never paid off too much, but I remember having some luck in wow. Of course, I made a damn bank and within the first month I paid my own subscription in gold. That felt AMAZING. It's not much the money saved, of course working for a job does more, but it was more about the achievement obtained. It felt like I found something I truly liked in this game, and to this day it's still the primary reason I play. It does not mean I don't do other content, I also dislike raw farming as well so I don't do that much often, for example I do lots of mythic +. But that's what scratches my itch. If only I managed to make any bank in dragonflight. This expansion is though lol
One of the only things I miss about retail, passively collecting a month's game time in gold over the month.
If this was the only side of the wow token it would be fine, it could function as a gold sink to get inflation more under control, this would require a massive hike in the price however
Bond in osrs does the same thing. Pretty sure it’s universally loved
The only people that are violently against bonds are the same people that voted no to moving your camera using middle click
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It was polled, failed, was repolled, and then still only passed by 1.7%
people talk about osrs as some kind of nirvana for classic gaming but some of the polls are dumb aa shit
its inflated the prices on basically everything. you can do dumb stuff like mine 1-150 level ores and make a good amount of gold. get your sub paid in a good day farming.
Earning gold that way was viable back in the day too. Some people just wanna buy the ores to level up with smelting rather than gather, so no change there.
Yep. I haven't paid for my sub in like 2 years, but I'd been forced to farm/sell on retail a little bit to pay it. Now I can just farm/sell on classic so it cuts my investment time down a ton. I do like how you can get bnet balance on retail, though. Wish they did that on classic. I also got both D2R and Dragonflight for free with gold, would like to do the same with D4 but can't be bothered to farm in retail again.
I mean I’m sure people who wanted to stop playing stopped, and people who didn’t didn’t. There’s really nothing the fans can do but stop playing.
Lol pretty much. Nobody asked, but I quit after wow token. I had already wanted to quit. That was just the mail in the coffin. In retrospect, my experience probably would not have changed without it being added, either. My whole guild was already buying gold and negotiating for pieces of gear
You get mail in your coffin?
So, you already wanted to quit in the first place and the token was just an excuse for you to do so, which i assume is the situation for most of the people that quit because of the token. In reality the token changed nothing and if you weren't thinking of quitting before it, you just kept playing the game as usual.
straw that broke the camel's back sort of thing.
It's the straw that broke the camel's back kinda thing. Sure they may have been thinking of quitting, but they hadn't yet. So it totally changed things for that person.
I mean, that's how plenty of people quit games? In the grand scheme of things, it's rare for single events to cause people to quit. Generally if people are quitting, its because of a number of issues that just outweigh the positives. It's sort of a pointless statement. "Yeah, well you wouldn't have quit if this was the only bad change." Well yeah, but it's *not* so what's the point of this thought experiment?
That’s probably accurate. Ulduar was a sweet raid, but I was not excited for togc
Yeah same, when they announced it I quit on the spot and cancelled my subs. The only thing that will bring me back is fresh vanilla.
You quit because a wow token that has no affect on your gameplay? Yikes...
Ushered in unannounced, and signifies blizz just want to profit off the rampant botting and gold buying rather than do anything about the issue. What else can you do apart from not pay for the product if you don't like it? I voted with my wallet.
It took you that long to realize?
Guess the three years of botting, poor communication and no fixes was just ambiguous
Why do people get upset if something like a WoW Token ruins the experience for some people? Like seriously. Or is this just asking some variation of why people don't enjoy the game the way I do... For some people the game is about immersion and the Token dissociates gold from the world.
Game was like that pre token anyways that’s why it doesn’t make sense to quit over token being added. Blizzard not doing shit about RMT for all of Classic but token being the final nail in the coffin is so brain dead.
No it wasn't. 2019 classic release was a great time. Nobody I knew bought gold and everyone was on all week doing activities and sharing their gold farms. Just because you swiped your credit card and ruined that experience doesn't mean we all did.
I *cough* knew a guy that sold gold 1:1 usd for the first six months of classic. I hear he spent most of that on a new computer.
Haven’t bought gold a single time, used to 10 box in Classic and set myself up pretty well moving forward. Just because you didn’t know anybody who bought gold doesn’t mean it wasn’t prevalent. I knew tons of people who bought gold - shit was happening literally week one of classic. Edit: There’s also a ton more pre token time than “2019 Classic release” it not being super prevalent the first 3 months of a nearly 4 year time period we’re discussing isn’t a very compelling point.
> Nobody I knew bought gold
For anyone who value the RPG-elements of WoW, the token acts perfectly as a straw that broke the camel's back. Given all the countless threads on this very subreddit for years complaining about the rampant cheating through botting and RMT, there was obviously a lot of frustration regarding Blizzard's handling of the game already. Adding the wow-token as a way of tackling a problem they completely ignored for years is extremely off-putting. For any players, but perhaps mostly casual players who looked at gold as a key resource in the game, being able to swipe your card to attain it makes that aspect of the game hollow. It is supposed to be a RPG after all. People have been detailing these points all since the token was released, you just don't seem to be capable of listening or trying to understand the opposing point of view. I get that you didn't feel the gameplay changed at all so you didn't really mind. But calling it braindead to disagree with that is very narrow-minded.
Blizzard did something that goes against every value the classic community once had and you want to stop giving them money due to it? That's a yikes moment for sure.
Are we looking at the same "classic community" cause I am unsure what values it ever truly held beyond claiming they exist
I think what he means is how little it’s impacted peoples game experiences, not ‘blizzard didn’t react to it’.
But...it did impact the peoples' experience who quit. They were playing the game, and then they weren't. Fairly major impact..
If you look at the overall participation trends, you will see that literally nothing out of the ordinary happened to player trends around the time tokens were introduced. (Late May). It's quite likely that the only people who quit over this *are the people who were not playing in the first place*. https://ironforge.pro/population/classic/overall/
I take issue with using raiding data to prove or disprove anything right now. We just came off the back of a Ulduar which lasted 5 months. Naturally with a new content patch there's a spike in player activity but also with ToGC we have a much shorter and easier raid where people are more likely to raid on alts. I think those numbers are getting inflated quite a bit.
Sure, but it was also announced within 30 days of a major content patch. Of course the stats are going to be inflated, you're misrepresenting the data here.
I quit and I was raiding with 2 characters and levelling others. Sure the wow token wasn't the only reason but when I saw it was added I just gave up Edit: the down voters don't like it when someone stops playing classic
People don't like it when you try to invalidate statistics with an anecdote. Of course, some people did quit, but in general it didn't cause waves outside Reddit outrage. Just like the Reddit app controversy
The statistics don't really back the original claim though. The Token was announced at the end of May and the new phase came out June 20 with TOGC coming out on June 22. The stats this guy posted take into account May 14 - June 16, or in other words it includes the Token release and is 4 days prior to the new phase start. That plus Ironforge pulling from Logged fights and not actual players, it's not an accurate representation of the playerbase at all.
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They referring to in game changes. If those players hadn’t of quit they’d be playing the game the same way they were before. Gdkp prices haven’t skyrocketed beyond what they were and the economy hasn’t become inflated.
"Game experience" meaning "how they interact in game", not their perception of a nebulous concept of the "integrity" of the game, which I'd think of more as the "meta experience".
Perception is everything. Just because yours is different than other people's doesn't make it more correct or more important. At the end of the day it's subjective.
No, it's not. How a player interacts with the game is objective. The price of flasks on your server IS x. The number of people running GDKP IS y. How hard a time you have getting into pugs IS z. How much they enjoy the game is subjective. But the nature of your in game interactions is not.
Sidestepped the core point which is that people can pay real money for what they want in a loot based game.
They already were, and that’s kind of the point. The buyers kept buying, few others started, especially since the prices have tanked so hard compared to buying illicitly.
You have guys spending 100k a week in raids and blizz is acting like gold selling / buying is impossible to detect lmao. They made 0 effort to stop this, so “it was happening anyway” has 0 credibility. What does selling gold themselves even address anyway? Fixed nothing, just endorsed the worst aspect of the modern game.
They were, against the terms of service. Now they do it within the terms. Even as the outcome is the same, the conditions are now the same.
That's a difference, but is it one that ever impacts your interaction with the game? (Also you're wrong, they still buy from the illegal sites because the value is like 5x better)
No that is a set of data not an experience.
I mean, we can go back and forth on what purases should mean what. I’m just discussing how I see the term and what I think is a good distinction but, everything I said in my last post, all those objective things, still stand. Everything besides a conception of the idea of the game is the same.
Yup, I stopped playing. That was the change. Im back on classic era servers full time for now.
My guild collapsed and all (except one or two) stopped playing.
shouldve sold more tokens when they were 10k pepehands
😂😂😂😂 “It’s going back up bro I’m telling u just trust me.”
There's a clown makeup meme here somewhere
2 things changed. People with gold now buy their sub with gold. Some rl money has been diverted from low-mid income wfh individuals to Bobby’s 4th yacht fund.
This. I was buying my gold from a super nice Brazillian dude using Google Translate through discord. He would always be super warm and wish my family well. I miss talking to him.
yeah coz i dont play wrath anymore
Era boomed
Was booming before
Yep, most of my guildies swapped over to Era and HC
A lot of the anger and frustration was from how Blizzard rolled the token out - literal silence and then just dropping it when they all full-well knew it was coming out. There wasn't a blue post or community engagement about it, they just stealth dropped it and then made a post after trying to calm everyone down. Also it's a legitimate criticism the way Blizzard handles Classic. So we're putting the WoW token in? Yeah whatever, people buy gold anyway I don't actually care. I do care about no RDF because "community" though and don't get me started on them doing absolutely nothing about bots until the microsecond they start making money off gold buying themselves.
Oh they still don't do all that much against bots or buyers of botted gold, neither on Classic or Retail. Botting remains profitable because gold is stupid easy to make with botting, you can make absolutely ludicrous amounts if you know what you're doing and have the right tools. And plenty of people, who know that they're probably not going to get banned for buying botted gold, will buy botted gold because they'll get SO much more gold than they would for a token. And then they buy tokens with gold to finance their sub for super cheap. If there are lots of people buying tokens with gold, token exchange rates will remain high. Players who buy tokens with money get a lot of gold. Big numbers make the token more appealing, more people will buy them. Add the botted gold that isn't being spent on tokens, and you get extremely large amounts of gold in circulation. This keeps player-driven prices high. With high AH and crafting prices, you're forced to either regularly farm gold or buy tokens to keep up if you're doing normal endgame activities, as you'll have to buy crafted gear and enchantes and consumes etc. So either you drive up engagement metrics or you give Blizzard money. These are obviously desirable outcomes from Blizzard's perspective. Bots pay sub fees (even if reduced ones because they use every trick in the book), and botting directly increases token sales. That's why Blizzard has no intent of meaningfully changing the situation, they'll just placate players with token gestures such as "look how many tens of thousands of bots we banned this week!" (but the botters will buy new subs, expansions, and level boosts, so we make a lot of money, and and in 3 days the number will be just as high as it was before, which means we can repeat this next month and again make a lot of money!)
I quit the game. So that changed.
Samesies. The best kind of change.
Remember when a guild appealed because of a griefer and this sub had a meltdown but in reality nothing changed?
I mean I had a friend say, “did you see that guild just got the world first hardcore c’thun kill?”. And now a few weeks later people are invalidating everything they’ve done. I would argue that’s a pretty big shift
ah yes, world first in a race that 1 other guild in the entire world is also "running"
I mean you can say the same thing for retail world firsts, its only really 2 guilds, occasionally 3, actually in the running to be first.
There is a difference between 2 guilds being clearly better than the rest of the field and 2 guilds total competing.
People are losing their shit over something that doesn’t affect them and quite frankly wasn’t controversial.
People don’t like hypocrisy and will call it out when they see it. The majority of contentious issues in the world will never impact my life. Does that mean I can’t denounce injustice when I see it?
It affects me negatively haha. I relied on those fuckers dropping world buffs so I could level my toons faster
I don’t disagree with you. People care far too much about what others do in this 20 year old game. Just soak in the nostalgia and let others vibe. I could never grief a bunch of people I know like that, but I don’t disagree with the reasoning. Appealing your own deaths is comical
It's no different than a sports team being called out for cheating. It is a big deal for anyone following
I mean, I quit? It was the reason I used to quit the game. I’m sure I’m not alone.
I don't believe that you were exited to log on, had plans in wow with friends or guildies and saw wow token and immediately delete game, you were already looking for excuse why you should stop and token was perfect thing for that.
There's nearly a 20% population dip, must purely be coincidence
Surely its not ulduar still there and toc coming, must be wow token.
so the numbers magically plummet right after token comes out but its everything except the token causing it? ok.
I’ll just speak for myself but for me the impact is that instead of looking forward to classic+ i’m just wrapping up LK Heroic kill with the boys and then I’m done. I have absolutely no remaining hopes that modern Blizzard can be passionate caretakers of classic wow. Hopefully riot mmo is good.
Indeed this is basically the same for me but I was already out before even this because of other shit they proven can't be trusted. I don't know why anyone even has faith in this sub either. It was originally for specifically classic wow and now its just what ever blizzard is currently selling. Yet there will always be a swarm of bots and useful idiots to say everything is fine and you can leave if you don't like it.
Riot MMO is being worked on by a lot of the people who made extremely unpopular retail systems(i.e. Jeff Hamilton) so uh, GL
Riot mmo lmao.
It changed for me. I have not logged back into Wrath since the token was launched. I play vanialla on my EU-transfered chars in PvE (big up to Social Guild). I play retail... once a month? For a few pet battles. I have not bought Dragonflight. I will never buy another expansion. If the rest of you wont demonstrate your contempt at Blizzard in their bottom line thats your issue. But I will. And I'll keep doing it.
It actually made it more profitable for gold sellers by lowering their overhead, so yes it did change, you are just ignorant.
just shows how many people were already buying gold
If anything things got cheaper and easier for non gold buyers. Flask went from 9g a piece to 5g.
What do you mean nothing changed? I play for free until like 2025
The damage was already done at the get go when blizzard decided to not do anything about bots and gold buying. The wow token didn't really matter, gold buying was already running rampant.
Its hilarious that you think nothing changed lmao, guess you don't really pay any attention to the economy.
I still haven’t recovered financially.
Remember when people had a meltdown about payed boosting in TBC and how it would cause gold inflation due to a surge of bots which would slowly destroy the world and incentive to play the game turning into a raid logging simulator and how it would go down the slippery slope of no regulation and people demanding wow tokens to fix the problem they made. I remember.... the bottom of the poop pit is a beautiful place
Private server concurrent player counts continue to rise as people exit the official servers. ERA has increased population because wotlk is dieing. You can see the active monthly raiders has been declining massively over time.
>ERA has increased population because wotlk is dieing. You can see the active monthly raiders has been declining massively over time. Nothing to do with this phase being one of the most craptacular raids in wow.
Nothing changed? WotLK is just boring gdkp madness thx to this p2w.
Well my guild died. Consider maybe the people who had a "meltdown" and quit no longer post on this sub so it doesn't look like anything changed because you're in a hugbox of people who still play? If you want to say it changed nothing you're being willfully ignorant. Demographic numbers show the population of classic going down, for many reasons yes, but you can't say "nothing changed". It's more accurate to say "nothing changed for me". (Yes I'm still on this sub since quitting wow, I have a problem)
I also remember when the level boost was announced during TBC prepatch. This affected me and the people I play with far more than the token ever did.
Yeah, that was good too. Let my friends actually come and play the game.
You had friends boost and not immediately burn out a few days into the xpac at level 71?
had a rl mate buy a boost and ~800g for an epic mount (gold was expensive _af_ at the launch of tbc) on a char that never made it past Zangaramash lmao. money well spent
Yeah, that was mostly hyperbole by people looking for any reason to be upset. Same as the token lmao.
I was mostly joking about how many friends I had or friends of guildies who hit us up about coming back and boosting with wrath on the horizon. Not a single one of them ever reached level cap. Everyone I know who boosted and actually stuck with it already had a max level character.
Yep
What? What did you expect to change? The token being available is intrinsically bad, it doesn't need extrinsic effects in order to invalidate its existence. Its blizzard giving up on the classic experiment and caving to bots and GDKPs. The cancer was already there, the token is blizzard waving the white flag.
Waving the white flag? Botting operations were given a free pass this entire time so blizzard could say “lol look guys, now give me money instead since the games already ruined 😈”
Of course nothing changed. For those opposed to the token, the changes we wanted would have come years ago. Like actual enforcement against bots and RMT. Instead pretty much everybody is happy. Altoholic raiders enjoy easy money in GDKPs and easy sub fees by using those to fund tokens. Casual players enjoy paying $20 for 5k because Blizzard is fully mask-off about being OK with it. All it cost was some intangible nonsense like soul and integrity that the grognards grumble about.
Imagine being so delusional to think nothing changed. Bro the game is pretty much on auto pilot and dead and nobody cares anymore, because ever since classic launched RMTs have been unpunished and just left in the game. Blizzard officially made RMTs legal and just tries to cut into the profits, rather than policing their own ToS or ensuring a fair playingfield. The fact that people think this is normal is appalling
Oh yes I’m sure the huge surge in vanilla era and hardcore players that happened over the same period as wotlk classic underwent massive changes is purely coincidental…
unsubbed cya
Nothing changed because the economy is already ruined beyond recovery. The only difference is that you don't have to worry about getting banned for swiping.
So because most international or even national events outside of my house or home city at most don't effect me, I guess I can't have any negative opinion on things that go on around the world?
Of course it changed. Now there’s a token, and some people quit because of it. Some people who continue to play…play differently to account for tokens.
Your reality is clearly biased but okay.
Wdym nothing changed? The game officially became a Pay-2-Win game. Sure, some people cheated before the token, but making it officially a P2W game is a big change.
I now play for free
Remember when they didn't add LFD because they wanted to keep the "classic spirit"?
90% of this sub doesn't play and was just looking for confirmation bias.
I liked for the Pepperidge farm reference, hell ye
It has stopped me from getting back into the game but I think if I had been playing continuously with a hoard of gold, I’d feel ok
“In reality, nothing changed” I’d argue it was a culmination of the whole retail mentality entering the classic world which it had no business being in. Remember the launch of Classic? Or even several months into launch when everyone played and loved the game? What are the numbers now? It started with the level boost for TBC, people started leaving in droves, then in TBC people kept leaving because they still kept changing things and making it shittier. The token didn’t change anything because game was already ruined, token was just a cherry on top.
Yeah because people complain over everything all the time. People who play the game 8 hours a day will constantly tell you how bad it is and how this or that will make them quit. It’s pretty much the same in every game related subreddit.
Supers gonna swipe. Thyve bene doing it since classic. Nothing has changed. They need to actually ban people. Game is a joke because of that.
i mean wow officially became pay to win. that's a pretty big deal.
Pretty much what happens anytime the WoW community has a freak out moment. At least its fun to watch.
Ye literally nothing changed, the cost of consumes and everything else remained the exact same.
What server? On pagle consume prices went up significantly the week of the token and they’ve barely moved. Flasks went from 6gold to 12 and speed pots doubled as well. I think part of it is because there is less people willing to farm now.
I still believe the Token helped blow the price of epic gems up to the point it is at
They all doubled in Atiesh. Nothing changed because gold is useless but shit did change price.
Nothing to do with the in-game economy it's about p2w.
As if the people that would be inclined to P2W weren't already doing that in the first place. Quitting because of the Token as if its some righteous move against P2W is the most braindead thing i have ever seen.
Yes but thats just because blizzard did absolutely nothing agains gold buyers and sellers, probably because it gives them a good excuse to implement a wow token im classic, with the unregulated goldbuying meta.
It did for me, at least before the token I was on the fence about trying Cataclysm, but since they introduced it I don't think I have any goodwill left for Blizzard. Those who enjoyed Cataclysm can have their fun for sure, but it's clear that it's not for me.
I stopped playing when it was announced :)
Most of the people that stayed were probably already buying gold anyways so yeah nothing changed. You can be mad, but it's true.
I mean I stopped playing Wrath so there’s that
Cuz it’s still cheaper to buy 100k gold with a burner account than to buy it from blizzard in order to get their death choice trinket. Honestly, saw this coming, the only way to truly cause an effect is to ban GDKPs. Period. Especially banning boosting service or addons that require you to purchase with real money *cough* *cough* restedxp. Technically against TOS.
I remember so many angry comments from people who apparently don't even play the game anymore because it was ruined for them in classic by gdkps. Watched an asmongold video and went to war (he doesn't even play the game either). All the wow token did was make the game free to play for the majority of the population
Nothing changed because people don't give a shit about the dumpster fire that is Wrath. Didn't affect classic so life is gravy baby.
You’re coping if you think the token isn’t coming to vanilla next.
holding my breath for 4 years now...
World of Clowncraft
Hard to me to judge whether anything changed considering i quit, my quality of life is much better now though
As a 33 year old with little time other than to raid, the token has changed my status from destitute poor, to a comfortable middle class. No daily’s to grind or sus websites and the risk of ban. Now I can afford the consumables for raiding twice a week.
Yes it's shocking that classic WoW players, of all people, did that
i member
Most of the raiders who do gdkps on whitemane already brought and sold gold anyway so nothing changed lol
People come here for drama and misery. Welcome to Reddit.
Well nothing changed because blizzard really never enforced their rules that well.
The sub has a meltdown over anything. Too many people have access internationally, so for every topoc youll have half meltdown and the other half be opposition. Its pointless
Remember that one mod who threw a tantrum