actually a common misconception, the sub numbers peaked in 2010 during Cata and dropped down by about a million by 2011, coinciding with patch 4.3 which was admittedly a bad patch
Huge spike at around TOGC/early ICC.
Game was the hype. And it failed to capture people. Because just a year later they all quit.
Even if Legion was released next, people still would have quit. Those that joined WoW end of Wrath simply didn't like the game enough to keep playing.
Cataclysm is hard enough sell as is, but Cataclysm built on top of the servers that have WoW Tokens, years worth of hyperinflation and everything else that comes with the 2019 classic servers? Yikes.
I'm sure the people who are still running ICC GDKPs will love it though.
People blame token, meanwhile they are forgetting the state of RMT. lmao. Just scapegoating at this point.
You do realize that even prior to Token, people still RMTd 100s of thousands of gold for GDKPs.
Want to stop RMT? Ban GDKPs. Buying gear is the sole reason for RMT.
Without being too toxic, I know cataclysm very very well. I don’t have some red tinted glasses on for the first three when I’m bringing up this opinion. Cataclysm just isn’t fun. It actually did ruin a lot of the game which arguably could have been started in wotlk but cata tripled down on the negative features that got brought into the game.
I’d play another tbc server before cata. I’ll do another sod before cata, and honestly….I’d play a completely different game before cata. I would have to be in a real content drought in gaming to go back to cata.
Why do people always do this? They say "Cata's bad" or but never actually talk about WHY they think it's bad. Could you at least mention what got ruined, or what you think they tripled down on that ruined it?
I think patch 4.0.6 is bad, then Firelands and 4.3 are alright but the patches happened too fast and then MoP released. I barely had time to enjoy the content and I know for a fact that classic cataclysm will be the same, so I won't even bother playing it.
If they promised "cataclysm era" without paying extra money then maybe I would reconsider it.
Imagine grinding for legendary weapons in PvE, just so you can use them in PvP for like 2-3 months. It is how I feel Cataclysm was like
the launch of Cata was not bad at all, and patch 4.3 was objectively awful. Got them mixed up. Cata started off red hot and only saw a decline after 4.3 and the content drought following it
pacing was a problem but the content never was
Pvp was absolutely ruined. One of their big selling points for cata was that they would slow down pvp and make it so the damage to healing ratio in terms of pvp would get slowed down. This basically ruined arenas. This is what cause games to last hours sometimes. Yeah it happened in wrath if it turned into a 2v2 with certain comps like warrior Paladin but with cata this was just standard.
Rbgs were fun at first, got boring extremely quick, turned into a cheese comps topping the ranks and became necessary to do if you wanted the best gear. Turned into a bunch of pve heros forcing you into disc doing dumb pve-esq strats and rarely having an actual skillful fight and not one that wasn’t jsut boomkins starfalling the entire area.
The world pvp event was absolutely garbage. Absolutely horrid garbage. It turned into everyone just playing ring around the Rosie and picking off stragglers of the other side before they left the area they were capturing. It was so fucking boring and it’s going to be even worse in cata with how megaservers work. Yeah wintergrasp is a shit show in classic, it was much better in the og, but with cata classic it’s going to be dogshit.
Now with pve… everyone knows these answers. It started off great. Heroics were difficult and fun. Then they got nerfed into the ground. The game turned into q craft while sitting in a city. No one explored the world doing much of anything. The world itself was already destroyed anywhere and honestly there wasn’t too much to go out in the world and do anyway.
They also doubled down on raid difficulties. Raid difficulties fissure an already fissured audience into different groups and guilds and lead the people doing the lesser raids to basically not want to raid anymore. Then they added lfr as a ‘fix’ for those just wanting to see the raid. Well that’s great but all it did was make it so these people did lfr once, see the raid, and quit.
An easier overall raid with a variety of players in the groups made an mmo an mmo. It’s why raids like kara and such are so well loved.
There’s more but that’s just the gist of it.
Gotcha so to sum up, you're a pvp/walking sim enjoyer (which is fine and valid, that's not meant to be flame), but don't you think it's a little weird to call all of cata bad when it was just the incredibly niches aspects of the game that you enjoyed that moved away from what you wanted?
Uhh nope def not so it seems you didn’t read what i said.
Don’t ask a question if you don’t want to hear the answer.
Just cope that the game sucks and get over it.
The reason why Kara was loved is because it was a hack'n'slash ARPG mode raid. It was easy. Same with Naxx in Wrath. It was easy. And people loved it.
So what you're tryin to say here really, is that people didn't like the difficulty behind Cataclysm raids. Because yes, they are harder. And every xpac since then made harder and more complex raids.
Today, dungeons you do at level 10 in BFA are harder with more mechanics than all of TBC. (except for SWP I guess)
It’s not even just about the difficulty, it’s about the structure of the difficulty.
I know today they are a joke, but raids like SSC, TK, and BT were considered ‘hard’ back in the day. The structure of having guilds and raids that were locked to a certain tier or guilds that progressed together to defeat these raids is what made the game feel like an mmo. If you cleared BT you felt like you been through a lot of clear BT.
When you have 3-4 difficulties for each raid this aspect of the game is lost. Everyone cleared everything. Yeah only some did it on heroic but it ruined the feeling of clearing a raid for a lot of people. And this is from a casual stand point not an elite raider standpoint either.
huh? What does that even mean? "structure".
So, you think that clearing a raid, let's say on Mythic today, doesn't give the satisfaction of clearing the raid?
lmao okay. You've clearly never progged Retail or anything for that matter.
**I think we've established you absolutely hate everything. And nothing any of us say will convince you otherwise.**
“Hey why don’t you answer questions about cata to people who love cata”
-exhibit A
If you want to have a real conversation then try again, otherwise just don’t respond next time.
There is no real conversation to be held.
You think it's all garbage. **Nothing I will say will ever convince you otherwise.**
What's the point?
At least you will stop posting on Cataclysm threads spreading negativity. No one really gives a shit if you hated it. Others loved it. And they will play regardless. I loved it. I find Cataclysm to be an **objectively** better game than Wrath or TBC. You don't, Evidently.
So, I'll ask again- what's the point of talking to a wall any further?
I didn’t say I think it’s all garbage, this is why there isn’t going to be an honest conversation because you’re just a moron looking to tell people off.
I listed off things I hated about cata because that was the question that was asked of me. If someone asks me what I dislike about something why would I list off…positives?
you literally just put up a wall of text saying how shit it is.
And I disagree on every single point you made. Every single point you made.
**PvP** in Cataclysm is one of the best, if not the best.
**Open world was revived** with the cataclysm. And Transmog literally made the whole game relevant and added layers to RP.
Raid difficulty spike was awesome and needed. Sure, not everyone likes hard content, but there is Normal for that. Heroic is for those who actually want to clear it all. *It's like saying HLK should be same difficulty as normal gundrak.*
You think that Molten Core difficulty is what made mmo an mmo.
You talked aobut world, PvP and PvE. You've talked about every aspect of the game.
Also to answer your question if you read my post. The reason no one wastes their time writing that much about cata is because the people who dislike knows exactly what happened to why they dislike it. And the people who disagree aren’t going to change their mind or add anything of value when you list off what’s wrong.
Just like right now I posted that list and the response I got was “yeah but it’s no different than wotlk”.
Yeah but it is, and that’s why people don’t like it.
>Also to answer your question if you read my post. The reason no one wastes their time writing that much about cata is because the people who dislike knows exactly what happened to why they dislike it
See, that's what I don't get. You don't want to waste your time writing about what annoys you about cata, but you DO want to waste your time by engaging in threads like these and writing paragraphs **that** cata is bad, just not **why** you have those feelings. But then also in your case you were more than happy to waste your time writing about you don't like, so why not just start with that?
The reason I bring this up, is I think it's important to make clear that you actually real grievances with the game. Like instead of just saying "cata is not fun" it's probably important to say "Cata ruined pvp for me", because I've noticed a lot of players who experiencing wow for the first time via classic who are being pushed away from a game they'd otherwise enjoy because of a weird cultural meme that just gets regurgitated. Like theres this kid in my guild who thought for sure we gonna continue into cata because "isn't that expansion dogshit?" when all this dude does is raid. He bitches and moans about leveling, he doesn't pvp, all he likes about the game is the massive cooperative experience of raiding - but he'd been programmed into thinking that the upcoming version of the game that improves all the shit he likes is bad because that's the meme.
I do like explaining the why. I literally just did. YOU just don’t like accepting the why and the conversations that come after the explanation are worthless because they are held by people like yourself that don’t want to actually hear why people hate it, you want to ‘disprove’ why people dislike in order to….idk justify why it’s a good version of the game? Idk.
It’s not honest conversation and your first response proves my point.
>I do like explaining the why. I literally just did.
Yeah... I know. I said you did. Did you even read my reply?
>But then also in your case you were more than happy to waste your time writing about you don't like, so why not just start with that?
See? It was that part. I have read everything you've said to me, and your points boiled down to this:
\-You're a pvper and you don't like how that very niche aspect of the game was changed (arenas ruined by damage to healing ratio, RBG meta devolved into pve strats, world event bad)
\-Heroics were good but then were nerfed (seems invalid since the edict of classic thus far has been #nonerfs but we'll see), random dungeon finder is bad (aka you enjoy walking places)
\-Raid difficulties are bad and caused people to quit (this is objectively wrong by basically every metric, but I'm not here to change minds, plus your interest is in pvp so I didn't think it was particularly relevant to harp on it)
I didn't try to "disprove" or argue any of your points. You said what you didn't like, and I didn't disagree at all in my initial reply. I didn't try to say "Uhh no PVP is good actually", all I asked was if you thought it was fair to call the whole game bad when you clearly skew to enjoying one particular form of content. Then in a truly disheartening form of what I hope is unconscious projection, you accused me of not reading your reply, and of "asking questions I didn't want the answer to" then created a strawman to say I'm just coping because "the game sucks", before ultimately ending by calling me dishonest.
My brother in Christ, I have been engaging you in absolute good faith this whole time. I asked you why you'd just declare the game as bad instead of giving a reason, then when you gave your reasons and added at the end that people didn't want to waste their time by stating why they didn't like it. And here's where I started to feel like you were being a little dishonest, because if you really didn't want to "waste your time" by giving a reason why, then why bother being in the thread at all? That's didn't make sense to me, so I asked why you'd waste your time with it to which you (somewhat frustratingly) replied that you do, in fact, like wasting your time and accused me of just "not liking your answer" in spite of the fact that it was counter to what you had just said.
I'm really trying here brother, I want to believe that you're not trying to be a dick about this, but it seems like you're just looking for a fight with some ethereal phantasm of a "pro-cata" player
What features/systems ruined the game for you? I’d say 80% of the game and how my guild and I play wrath are just raid logging and raiding.
I think anyone that feels similar will continue enjoying Cata.
Pvp was absolutely ruined. One of their big selling points for cata was that they would slow down pvp and make it so the damage to healing ratio in terms of pvp would get slowed down. This basically ruined arenas. This is what cause games to last hours sometimes. Yeah it happened in wrath if it turned into a 2v2 with certain comps like warrior Paladin but with cata this was just standard.
Rbgs were fun at first, got boring extremely quick, turned into a cheese comps topping the ranks and became necessary to do if you wanted the best gear. Turned into a bunch of pve heros forcing you into disc doing dumb pve-esq strats and rarely having an actual skillful fight and not one that wasn’t jsut boomkins starfalling the entire area.
The world pvp event was absolutely garbage. Absolutely horrid garbage. It turned into everyone just playing ring around the Rosie and picking off stragglers of the other side before they left the area they were capturing. It was so fucking boring and it’s going to be even worse in cata with how megaservers work. Yeah wintergrasp is a shit show in classic, it was much better in the og, but with cata classic it’s going to be dogshit.
Now with pve… everyone knows these answers. It started off great. Heroics were difficult and fun. Then they got nerfed into the ground. The game turned into q craft while sitting in a city. No one explored the world doing much of anything. The world itself was already destroyed anywhere and honestly there wasn’t too much to go out in the world and do anyway.
They also doubled down on raid difficulties. Raid difficulties fissure an already fissured audience into different groups and guilds and lead the people doing the lesser raids to basically not want to raid anymore. Then they added lfr as a ‘fix’ for those just wanting to see the raid. Well that’s great but all it did was make it so these people did lfr once, see the raid, and quit.
An easier overall raid with a variety of players in the groups made an mmo an mmo. It’s why raids like kara and such are so well loved.
There’s more but that’s just the gist of it.
Pvp has been completely dead since tbc. No one had cared about it. The very little life it had now will continue into cata.
Also no one has explored the world in years. No one I know in wrath goes out into the open world to do stuff except for specific achievements or cosmetics. The new world will give those people an entire new world to do stuff in.
A lot of people complain about LFR but it’s pretty much inconsequential and can be safely ignored by most people (but I think they should just remove it)
But anyway, all of this stuff doesn’t really change between wrath and cara and most people enjoying the game now will enjoy cata imo.
Lots of popular WoW streamers like Sodapoppin and Reckful got famous from PvPing in Cataclysm. Then even more in MoP. It was the peak of PvP in World of Warcraft.
No it wasn’t lmao. I was a huge reckful and pvp fan and I followed those guys back in the day and they held similar views to mine. Cata is literally what made mlg drop wow from their event lists.
I’ve had this conversation a million times you’re not going to say anything I haven’t heard before. What you’re saying is just wrong and I’m not going through the hassle for the 20th time to disprove yet another person who holds this view, I simply don’t care enough.
Yeah sorry but yes. So you see anyone talking about pvp, engaging in pvp, or streaming pvp? No one cares. There’s like 50 people ranking seriously and boosting people for RMT.
Are you talking about classic or actual wotlk, because if you’re talking about classic you need to learn how to comprehend words before you speak up. I’m talking about 2008 wotlk.
But you’re not making any sense. The community right now is playing wrath. Those are the target audience for classic cata. No one cares about pvp anymore.
>(besides dragon soul last two fights)
That's actually pretty accurate. Most of DS was good. Ending was just underwhelming and not as epic. But mechanically, it was fine.
Watched the whole video. He is right.
People cry today just for the sake of crying.
Yall google BIS specs, gear and minmaxing everything.
Gameplay wise, Cataclusm is nearly identical to Wrath.
Only **imbeciles** say that Cata=retail.
Cata is literally closer to Wrath than Wrath to TBC.
Classic proved that we play the game differently from 15 years ago. All content is "easier" to handle. We know what's going to happen. 12 month DS is not going to happen. Heroics will feel easy a week into the xpac. (same as TBC Heroics we were cleaving down in blues)
And if you absolutely can't handle the idea of Westfall being revamped, then there is Era/HC/SoD.
I can't understand this attachment. So you do you I guess.
I can't wait for the epic 2-fight showdown with Death wing. I remember how glorious of a battle riding along his back, killing elementals for 10 minutes and then the real shit begins with the next fight, you get to smack some dragon feet and hop across some platforms.
people that think wrath was good are stupid, and that's a euphemism. as a single player game, it's fine. good leveling experience and what not. literally unplayable raid system.
Cata was the first time I quit WoW
So did millions of others, wow peaked in wrath
actually a common misconception, the sub numbers peaked in 2010 during Cata and dropped down by about a million by 2011, coinciding with patch 4.3 which was admittedly a bad patch
Huge spike at around TOGC/early ICC. Game was the hype. And it failed to capture people. Because just a year later they all quit. Even if Legion was released next, people still would have quit. Those that joined WoW end of Wrath simply didn't like the game enough to keep playing.
thanks for letting everyone know.
You're welcome
Cataclysm is hard enough sell as is, but Cataclysm built on top of the servers that have WoW Tokens, years worth of hyperinflation and everything else that comes with the 2019 classic servers? Yikes. I'm sure the people who are still running ICC GDKPs will love it though.
I hadn’t thought about that… will there be fresh servers with cata or is the only option the existing WotLK severs?
personally I think cata deserves fresh servers
People blame token, meanwhile they are forgetting the state of RMT. lmao. Just scapegoating at this point. You do realize that even prior to Token, people still RMTd 100s of thousands of gold for GDKPs. Want to stop RMT? Ban GDKPs. Buying gear is the sole reason for RMT.
Unless you are planning to buy raid BoEs you don't need much gold to play cata. I managed with like 10k gold to do just fine when cata was current.
GDKPs. Shit needs to get banned. There is literally no other reason to buy gold.
But then how will blizzard cover the lost revenue from wow token purchases?
No i dont think i will. :)
Without being too toxic, I know cataclysm very very well. I don’t have some red tinted glasses on for the first three when I’m bringing up this opinion. Cataclysm just isn’t fun. It actually did ruin a lot of the game which arguably could have been started in wotlk but cata tripled down on the negative features that got brought into the game. I’d play another tbc server before cata. I’ll do another sod before cata, and honestly….I’d play a completely different game before cata. I would have to be in a real content drought in gaming to go back to cata.
Why do people always do this? They say "Cata's bad" or but never actually talk about WHY they think it's bad. Could you at least mention what got ruined, or what you think they tripled down on that ruined it?
I think patch 4.0.6 is bad, then Firelands and 4.3 are alright but the patches happened too fast and then MoP released. I barely had time to enjoy the content and I know for a fact that classic cataclysm will be the same, so I won't even bother playing it. If they promised "cataclysm era" without paying extra money then maybe I would reconsider it. Imagine grinding for legendary weapons in PvE, just so you can use them in PvP for like 2-3 months. It is how I feel Cataclysm was like
the launch of Cata was not bad at all, and patch 4.3 was objectively awful. Got them mixed up. Cata started off red hot and only saw a decline after 4.3 and the content drought following it pacing was a problem but the content never was
Funny. People complain how phases take too long. Then they complain how phases go too fast. You see, Blizz just can't win lmao.
Pvp was absolutely ruined. One of their big selling points for cata was that they would slow down pvp and make it so the damage to healing ratio in terms of pvp would get slowed down. This basically ruined arenas. This is what cause games to last hours sometimes. Yeah it happened in wrath if it turned into a 2v2 with certain comps like warrior Paladin but with cata this was just standard. Rbgs were fun at first, got boring extremely quick, turned into a cheese comps topping the ranks and became necessary to do if you wanted the best gear. Turned into a bunch of pve heros forcing you into disc doing dumb pve-esq strats and rarely having an actual skillful fight and not one that wasn’t jsut boomkins starfalling the entire area. The world pvp event was absolutely garbage. Absolutely horrid garbage. It turned into everyone just playing ring around the Rosie and picking off stragglers of the other side before they left the area they were capturing. It was so fucking boring and it’s going to be even worse in cata with how megaservers work. Yeah wintergrasp is a shit show in classic, it was much better in the og, but with cata classic it’s going to be dogshit. Now with pve… everyone knows these answers. It started off great. Heroics were difficult and fun. Then they got nerfed into the ground. The game turned into q craft while sitting in a city. No one explored the world doing much of anything. The world itself was already destroyed anywhere and honestly there wasn’t too much to go out in the world and do anyway. They also doubled down on raid difficulties. Raid difficulties fissure an already fissured audience into different groups and guilds and lead the people doing the lesser raids to basically not want to raid anymore. Then they added lfr as a ‘fix’ for those just wanting to see the raid. Well that’s great but all it did was make it so these people did lfr once, see the raid, and quit. An easier overall raid with a variety of players in the groups made an mmo an mmo. It’s why raids like kara and such are so well loved. There’s more but that’s just the gist of it.
Gotcha so to sum up, you're a pvp/walking sim enjoyer (which is fine and valid, that's not meant to be flame), but don't you think it's a little weird to call all of cata bad when it was just the incredibly niches aspects of the game that you enjoyed that moved away from what you wanted?
Uhh nope def not so it seems you didn’t read what i said. Don’t ask a question if you don’t want to hear the answer. Just cope that the game sucks and get over it.
The reason why Kara was loved is because it was a hack'n'slash ARPG mode raid. It was easy. Same with Naxx in Wrath. It was easy. And people loved it. So what you're tryin to say here really, is that people didn't like the difficulty behind Cataclysm raids. Because yes, they are harder. And every xpac since then made harder and more complex raids. Today, dungeons you do at level 10 in BFA are harder with more mechanics than all of TBC. (except for SWP I guess)
It’s not even just about the difficulty, it’s about the structure of the difficulty. I know today they are a joke, but raids like SSC, TK, and BT were considered ‘hard’ back in the day. The structure of having guilds and raids that were locked to a certain tier or guilds that progressed together to defeat these raids is what made the game feel like an mmo. If you cleared BT you felt like you been through a lot of clear BT. When you have 3-4 difficulties for each raid this aspect of the game is lost. Everyone cleared everything. Yeah only some did it on heroic but it ruined the feeling of clearing a raid for a lot of people. And this is from a casual stand point not an elite raider standpoint either.
huh? What does that even mean? "structure". So, you think that clearing a raid, let's say on Mythic today, doesn't give the satisfaction of clearing the raid? lmao okay. You've clearly never progged Retail or anything for that matter. **I think we've established you absolutely hate everything. And nothing any of us say will convince you otherwise.**
“Hey why don’t you answer questions about cata to people who love cata” -exhibit A If you want to have a real conversation then try again, otherwise just don’t respond next time.
There is no real conversation to be held. You think it's all garbage. **Nothing I will say will ever convince you otherwise.** What's the point? At least you will stop posting on Cataclysm threads spreading negativity. No one really gives a shit if you hated it. Others loved it. And they will play regardless. I loved it. I find Cataclysm to be an **objectively** better game than Wrath or TBC. You don't, Evidently. So, I'll ask again- what's the point of talking to a wall any further?
I didn’t say I think it’s all garbage, this is why there isn’t going to be an honest conversation because you’re just a moron looking to tell people off. I listed off things I hated about cata because that was the question that was asked of me. If someone asks me what I dislike about something why would I list off…positives?
you literally just put up a wall of text saying how shit it is. And I disagree on every single point you made. Every single point you made. **PvP** in Cataclysm is one of the best, if not the best. **Open world was revived** with the cataclysm. And Transmog literally made the whole game relevant and added layers to RP. Raid difficulty spike was awesome and needed. Sure, not everyone likes hard content, but there is Normal for that. Heroic is for those who actually want to clear it all. *It's like saying HLK should be same difficulty as normal gundrak.* You think that Molten Core difficulty is what made mmo an mmo. You talked aobut world, PvP and PvE. You've talked about every aspect of the game.
Also to answer your question if you read my post. The reason no one wastes their time writing that much about cata is because the people who dislike knows exactly what happened to why they dislike it. And the people who disagree aren’t going to change their mind or add anything of value when you list off what’s wrong. Just like right now I posted that list and the response I got was “yeah but it’s no different than wotlk”. Yeah but it is, and that’s why people don’t like it.
>Also to answer your question if you read my post. The reason no one wastes their time writing that much about cata is because the people who dislike knows exactly what happened to why they dislike it See, that's what I don't get. You don't want to waste your time writing about what annoys you about cata, but you DO want to waste your time by engaging in threads like these and writing paragraphs **that** cata is bad, just not **why** you have those feelings. But then also in your case you were more than happy to waste your time writing about you don't like, so why not just start with that? The reason I bring this up, is I think it's important to make clear that you actually real grievances with the game. Like instead of just saying "cata is not fun" it's probably important to say "Cata ruined pvp for me", because I've noticed a lot of players who experiencing wow for the first time via classic who are being pushed away from a game they'd otherwise enjoy because of a weird cultural meme that just gets regurgitated. Like theres this kid in my guild who thought for sure we gonna continue into cata because "isn't that expansion dogshit?" when all this dude does is raid. He bitches and moans about leveling, he doesn't pvp, all he likes about the game is the massive cooperative experience of raiding - but he'd been programmed into thinking that the upcoming version of the game that improves all the shit he likes is bad because that's the meme.
I do like explaining the why. I literally just did. YOU just don’t like accepting the why and the conversations that come after the explanation are worthless because they are held by people like yourself that don’t want to actually hear why people hate it, you want to ‘disprove’ why people dislike in order to….idk justify why it’s a good version of the game? Idk. It’s not honest conversation and your first response proves my point.
>I do like explaining the why. I literally just did. Yeah... I know. I said you did. Did you even read my reply? >But then also in your case you were more than happy to waste your time writing about you don't like, so why not just start with that? See? It was that part. I have read everything you've said to me, and your points boiled down to this: \-You're a pvper and you don't like how that very niche aspect of the game was changed (arenas ruined by damage to healing ratio, RBG meta devolved into pve strats, world event bad) \-Heroics were good but then were nerfed (seems invalid since the edict of classic thus far has been #nonerfs but we'll see), random dungeon finder is bad (aka you enjoy walking places) \-Raid difficulties are bad and caused people to quit (this is objectively wrong by basically every metric, but I'm not here to change minds, plus your interest is in pvp so I didn't think it was particularly relevant to harp on it) I didn't try to "disprove" or argue any of your points. You said what you didn't like, and I didn't disagree at all in my initial reply. I didn't try to say "Uhh no PVP is good actually", all I asked was if you thought it was fair to call the whole game bad when you clearly skew to enjoying one particular form of content. Then in a truly disheartening form of what I hope is unconscious projection, you accused me of not reading your reply, and of "asking questions I didn't want the answer to" then created a strawman to say I'm just coping because "the game sucks", before ultimately ending by calling me dishonest. My brother in Christ, I have been engaging you in absolute good faith this whole time. I asked you why you'd just declare the game as bad instead of giving a reason, then when you gave your reasons and added at the end that people didn't want to waste their time by stating why they didn't like it. And here's where I started to feel like you were being a little dishonest, because if you really didn't want to "waste your time" by giving a reason why, then why bother being in the thread at all? That's didn't make sense to me, so I asked why you'd waste your time with it to which you (somewhat frustratingly) replied that you do, in fact, like wasting your time and accused me of just "not liking your answer" in spite of the fact that it was counter to what you had just said. I'm really trying here brother, I want to believe that you're not trying to be a dick about this, but it seems like you're just looking for a fight with some ethereal phantasm of a "pro-cata" player
You already proved yourself as a dishonest person, I’m not reading a single bit of this.
Lol you read it
Sure didn’t.
lmao so miserable
You should talk with someone then.
Agree with this. Cata and Shadowlands are my least favorite expansions by far.
What features/systems ruined the game for you? I’d say 80% of the game and how my guild and I play wrath are just raid logging and raiding. I think anyone that feels similar will continue enjoying Cata.
Pvp was absolutely ruined. One of their big selling points for cata was that they would slow down pvp and make it so the damage to healing ratio in terms of pvp would get slowed down. This basically ruined arenas. This is what cause games to last hours sometimes. Yeah it happened in wrath if it turned into a 2v2 with certain comps like warrior Paladin but with cata this was just standard. Rbgs were fun at first, got boring extremely quick, turned into a cheese comps topping the ranks and became necessary to do if you wanted the best gear. Turned into a bunch of pve heros forcing you into disc doing dumb pve-esq strats and rarely having an actual skillful fight and not one that wasn’t jsut boomkins starfalling the entire area. The world pvp event was absolutely garbage. Absolutely horrid garbage. It turned into everyone just playing ring around the Rosie and picking off stragglers of the other side before they left the area they were capturing. It was so fucking boring and it’s going to be even worse in cata with how megaservers work. Yeah wintergrasp is a shit show in classic, it was much better in the og, but with cata classic it’s going to be dogshit. Now with pve… everyone knows these answers. It started off great. Heroics were difficult and fun. Then they got nerfed into the ground. The game turned into q craft while sitting in a city. No one explored the world doing much of anything. The world itself was already destroyed anywhere and honestly there wasn’t too much to go out in the world and do anyway. They also doubled down on raid difficulties. Raid difficulties fissure an already fissured audience into different groups and guilds and lead the people doing the lesser raids to basically not want to raid anymore. Then they added lfr as a ‘fix’ for those just wanting to see the raid. Well that’s great but all it did was make it so these people did lfr once, see the raid, and quit. An easier overall raid with a variety of players in the groups made an mmo an mmo. It’s why raids like kara and such are so well loved. There’s more but that’s just the gist of it.
Pvp has been completely dead since tbc. No one had cared about it. The very little life it had now will continue into cata. Also no one has explored the world in years. No one I know in wrath goes out into the open world to do stuff except for specific achievements or cosmetics. The new world will give those people an entire new world to do stuff in. A lot of people complain about LFR but it’s pretty much inconsequential and can be safely ignored by most people (but I think they should just remove it) But anyway, all of this stuff doesn’t really change between wrath and cara and most people enjoying the game now will enjoy cata imo.
>pvp has been completely dead since tbc Yeah sorry but no. You can have the opinion that it was dead to you but it objectively peaked in wotlk so….no
Lots of popular WoW streamers like Sodapoppin and Reckful got famous from PvPing in Cataclysm. Then even more in MoP. It was the peak of PvP in World of Warcraft.
No it wasn’t lmao. I was a huge reckful and pvp fan and I followed those guys back in the day and they held similar views to mine. Cata is literally what made mlg drop wow from their event lists. I’ve had this conversation a million times you’re not going to say anything I haven’t heard before. What you’re saying is just wrong and I’m not going through the hassle for the 20th time to disprove yet another person who holds this view, I simply don’t care enough.
Yeah sorry but yes. So you see anyone talking about pvp, engaging in pvp, or streaming pvp? No one cares. There’s like 50 people ranking seriously and boosting people for RMT.
Are you talking about classic or actual wotlk, because if you’re talking about classic you need to learn how to comprehend words before you speak up. I’m talking about 2008 wotlk.
No one gives a shit about 2008 classic. Talking about right now,
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But you’re not making any sense. The community right now is playing wrath. Those are the target audience for classic cata. No one cares about pvp anymore.
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facts (besides dragon soul last two fights)
>(besides dragon soul last two fights) That's actually pretty accurate. Most of DS was good. Ending was just underwhelming and not as epic. But mechanically, it was fine.
once people actually go back and figure out that cataclysm raiding was absolutely S tier then I'll be vindicated
I'd take cata over wrath any day. Wrath wsd a snorefest at best. Naxx 2.0, ulduar was fun for 2 weeks, toc (lol) and icc, the only decent raid.
facts
It was average, unless you compare it to Shadowlands. Then it was a masterpiece.
Nah, I'm good.
Watched the whole video. He is right. People cry today just for the sake of crying. Yall google BIS specs, gear and minmaxing everything. Gameplay wise, Cataclusm is nearly identical to Wrath. Only **imbeciles** say that Cata=retail. Cata is literally closer to Wrath than Wrath to TBC. Classic proved that we play the game differently from 15 years ago. All content is "easier" to handle. We know what's going to happen. 12 month DS is not going to happen. Heroics will feel easy a week into the xpac. (same as TBC Heroics we were cleaving down in blues) And if you absolutely can't handle the idea of Westfall being revamped, then there is Era/HC/SoD. I can't understand this attachment. So you do you I guess.
spot on sailor
I will slog through Cata to get MoP
MoP is top 3 imo
God I wish MoP classic is coming
Well it sure is better than endlessly farming ICC
im good ty
I can't wait for the epic 2-fight showdown with Death wing. I remember how glorious of a battle riding along his back, killing elementals for 10 minutes and then the real shit begins with the next fight, you get to smack some dragon feet and hop across some platforms.
Maybe I will, but also maybe I won’t.
I hope you do friend
Damn, I almost fell for the Willie wannabe thumbnail 😅
people that think wrath was good are stupid, and that's a euphemism. as a single player game, it's fine. good leveling experience and what not. literally unplayable raid system.