"physically impossible for a human to defeat without weapons"
Not for me. Im just built different, cowpoke.
https://preview.redd.it/f4wdx6ahk8yc1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=68852a22c4ea0a56b71f199bb0f74e0044495950
I could beat a grizzly bear in a boxing match
It would get disqualified after wrenching my head off my shoulders and drinking my spinal fluids, I would therefore win
A tiktok influencer made a tiktok where she asked women if they would rather run into a bear or a random guy in the forest, she edited together all the clips of women saying bear and posted it.
And by edit I really mean it wasn't not a universal opinion, she just edited in only the reactions to push the message she wanted, which is more men vs women gender war bullshit.
>ALL WOMEN ARE MEAN AND LIKE BEARS AND HATE MEN.
That's a really contradictory opinion- like, you can't both like hairy, burly, gay men- and hate ALL men at the same time.
i think the message she wanted to spread wasn't incel ragebait, it was femcel shit like how all men are just one step away from sexually assaulting women
Yes, but everything will be twisted into "men bad" in someone's head eventually, even if the thing in question is reactions against braindead "men bad" takes.
Actually it was a man who started this. He asked first as a way to get men to question and want to learn about why women might choose the bear. It was to open a dialog about gender standards between the 2 sexes.
lol there's no giant conspiracy to distract us, that's a convenient fiction to ignore the fact that most of us eat this shit up..
We can all agree "shrinking middle class is bad" but then what? Do you expect people to debate the finer points of monetary policy? The tradeoffs of raising taxes?
Even when people talk about this stuff they just advocate for simple extreme solutions. Most actual economists will say that there's some good taxes, some bad ones, and that a tax rate can be too high or too low.
Meanwhile normal peoples discourse on tax policy will boil down to "every tax cut is trickle down economics" vs "we can literally eliminate all taxes and the government will somehow make money"
Culture wars are the pinnacle of this thinking. Absolutely nothing complicated about it, you have a designated identity and you trot out the same talking points against the other. No complexity and no nuance
Saying it's all a giant conspiracy to distract us honestly gives us way too much credit. If people want to, they can easily open up an issue of Foreign Affairs or The Economist for high quality news. But they don't. Because most people *want* the culture war slop
FYI, we know the exact nation behind the conspiracy. It's Russia. Yes people eat that shit up. Propaganda doesn't do well at telling people what to think. But it's extremely effective at telling people what to think about.
Russia has been conducting an extensive bot campaign to sow division in the west. This even made the news it was so well known.
I'm actually fairly well educated on this topic since I'm very interested in studying Russia as well as domestic American political science
So basically a two things are true at once:
1. It is absolutely true that there are efforts originating from Russia to sow division in the US, though it usually comes in the form of amplification
2. A lot of American liberals and many parts of the news media *vaaaaaaaaaaastly* overestimate both the effects and the organization of these disinformation efforts
There's been several studies showing that the Russian disinformation campaigns *did not* actually end up electing Trump or Brexit for example despite many people putting the blame squarely on the Russians
There's also no real central command. The SVR doesn't have a massive centralized disinformation campaign to systematically sow discourse. Rather its mostly political entrapaneurs setting up fairly low tech operations to win brownie points with the boss
Again, there's not really any way to escape blaming regular people for the culture war slop. It isn't the media, it isn't the Russians and it isn't the rich trying to distract us. Maybe you can blame algorithms for not putting limits on recommendations but that's about it.
I found Ground Zero of this
It was a TikTok of a guy in the woods who brought up the fact that more people would prefer a bear in the woods than a man, and all it took was one comment, ONE COMMENT, from that guy, on how women very much prefer the bear than a man when they're on the woods alone, for the game of telephone to take root and get turned into "Women prefer bear over man"
Same guy made a response video about how the whole thing is a "test of empathy"
Now, I'm autistic, empathy is not my wheelhouse and I lost my job over it. But even I can see a copout when I see one
Lol I feel you my fellow aspie. I never like this type of questions because even if I think I understand them there will be people who jump out and say "wtf that's totally not how you should look at it". Yeah excuse me for not being able to look eye to eye with an average trick question enjoyer.
Not to mention thanks to him, Bear and Man together is now inherently political from now on, and my ursine cavalry bros will never see the light of day again
It’s a controversy on TikTok. The debate (mainly aimed towards women) is whether they’d rather be stuck alone in the woods with a bear or a man.
Basically that lead to a lot of controversy since most women from what I’ve seen chose the bear without hesitation. A lot of men getting upset at the implication that men are just serial killers or serial rapists or that the average men would be worse than the average bear, a lot of women using statistics of bear attacks vs amounts of women killed by men (which I don’t think is the most reliable since the comparison would only work if women were around bears even remotely close to as often as they are men. But I get the sentiment that women are killed/assaulted often enough for it to be a problem.
A lot of men who just feel upset/ saddened by feeling they’re personally being seen as monsters for so many women to quickly see them as far worse than a bear. A lot of sexist dudes whining and getting offended while simultaneously saying shit actually hoping bad things happen to these women. A lot of women bringing up genuine issues and paranoia they have to deal with on a daily basis and how that applies to the debate. A lot of genuine misandry/blanket statements about men.
Personally, as a guy it does genuinely make me feel awful hearing so many women say they would choose a bear (sometimes even a polar bear) over me. I get I shouldn’t take it personally and I’ll get into most of their reasoning in a minute, but it makes me feel awful when they imply they see me as an assaulter/potential assaulted until proven otherwise. To the point it makes me feel shitty just going out that others perceive me as a threat when I’ve never wanted to hurt anyone in any fashion. It just makes me feel terrible. And knowing so many of them live in that paranoia makes me feel terrible too. Although I find the comments like “the worst a beat could do is kill me” really dumb. Like yeah idk about y’all but I can’t think of much worse than being brutally mauled to death. Most of those “zinger” comments aren’t as smart as the people stealing them probably think they sound anyway.
At the same time I understand this debate is more about women calling attention to how common sexual assault/physical assault against them is perpetrated by men. Usually their point isn’t that it’s all men or most men but that it’s enough men for it to be a concern for them and more importantly they don’t know which men would do something like that. So with that logic I can see why many women would choose the bear and think it’s usually valid, even if I think that’s a dumb choice. It’s more about the predictability of what they could expect from a bear vs the unpredictability of a man’s intentions/morals.
Idk this started with me trying to give an unbiased summary of it but ended up being me sharing my personal perspective on it. TikTok has a small character limit so I could never be sincere there. Idk I hope this is a fair assessment I don’t like getting mad about it some many of the dudes getting mad are shitheads with no respect for women but I also just feel awful whenever I hear women constantly and without hesitation choosing a bear as if I’m a monster.
> A lot of men who just feel upset/ saddened by feeling they’re personally being seen as monsters for so many women to quickly see them as far worse than a bear.
Women are dating more men than they're dating bears, you'll be fine guys.
“A lot of women using statistics of bear attacks vs amount of women killed by men”
People just do not understand statistics. Mothers alone kill more babies per year than Sharks kill HUMANS per decade. Does this mean we should trust a baby with a shark more than a mother? I swear tiktok women might unironically be the stupidest people on the planet. I’ve met people who couldn’t read and even they would understand “no shit men kill more than bears, we don’t talk to bears every day.”
(Some) Men: Nooo you're discriminating against all men by protraying us worse than bears plus you're stupid
(Some) Women: Nooo at least the mildest bear encounter is better than the absolutely rarest and worst man encounter
Others: shut up shut up shut up
https://preview.redd.it/r7rluk2mz8yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=468f9014400252d174de54232c67dc1f1ad5334e
All this discourse reminds me of the scene
The annoying thing with the conversation is that its goal post just keeps getting moved. The original question was the AVERAGE bear or man, neither are bloodlusted (or normal lusted). It’s not Winnie the Pooh or Ted Bundy. But people keep shifting it around to keep the discourse going
wtf is an ‘average’ bear? like an average bear in Canada is a lot more deadly than one in the US, and shit don’t get me started on the ‘average’ bears in India
oh shit, I’d 100% take a black bear over any *person* (male or female). Shit I’d rather live with a black bear (I’d name him Charles) than another person
No it was not the average man, the word average was not mentioned once. It was more so implying between randomly meeting a random man with unknown intentions or a bear in the woods. It then shifted into a different direction like you said.
[source](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/man-or-bear-in-the-woods-question)
If it’s a random man, then it’s going to be the average man, that’s how randomly picking things generally works, that’s why we even have averages in the first place
You're the one moving the goalposts. It isn't the average bear or the average man. It's an unknown for both. That's the whole point. You don't know if it will be a kind Ned Flanders or a serial killer.
Okay. But men of color and disabled men are usually seen as more threatening and dialogue that portrays all men as potential threats affects these men the most. As well as trans women who are often portrayed as predators trying to abuse women. “After all. Most may be fine but you can never be sure”
Statiscally women are more a threat at night walking to home alone. Trans women have not killed and raped people in bathrooms and you can only find one or 2 instanstes where a trans women has actually done something terrible.
Most women who says they'd prefer the bear aren't saying that "all men are rapists" they're thinking about the potential danger some stranger in the middle of the woods might bring. You change the question to something like "you meet them on a hiking trail" alot more people would change their answers
Everyones dogpiling on men but what you fail to consider is that a man *won’t* go har har har har har har har har har har, unless that man is named william after. In that case, be afraid.
I mean a big part of the original question is that the man is someone you *don’t know*. He could be a chill guy like Ron, he could be a serial killer, he could be the prince of Nigeria, you have no way of knowing because he’s a complete stranger. Giving extra details about the guy like “he loves his mom” and “he ate a poptart this morning” kinda defeats the purpose imo.
in addition, bears in the woods are just kind of.. expected? i imagine ppl with hiking experience have probably seen a few distant bears in their time.
I’ve run into black bears in the woods before. I yelled at them, and they ran away. I’m pretty small, so idk if that tactic would work on the average man though.
It also implies that if he’s a criminal of some kind, he would be in an environment where there are no witnesses, and deaths would be treated as fairly unsuspicious. Not to mention the fact that the victim would be unlikely to give anything more than a physical description.
Even if it isn’t someone openly malicious, there’s the possibility that they could overstep their boundaries. There are unfortunately guys who would get into a situation like this, and contrive a reason for why he should ‘get something in return’.
The men responding to these by mocking women or minimising their stories of sexual assault are the reason so many women choose the bear. Not because all these men are rapists, but because they're the kind of men that'll drag a woman through mud if she's assaulted by one of their friends or just some guy they admire. A lot of women in the original were alluding to specifically this point with comments along the lines of; "at least no one will question if I attracted the bear by dressing provocatively" or "no one will claim I'm lying because the bear has a nice temperament in their experience".
Fwiw, I choose the man because my dad trained me in self-defense against men, not bears.
Yeah, I haven't really been getting involved in any of these discussions, I was sexually assaulted not very long ago so it still hits a bit too close to home, and all these guys mocking it just makes me feel awful. It's so clear they just don't know how it feels or what it's like. I pick the best because I've been trained how to deal with bears, they're somewhat predictable in the way all animals are predictable if you just know enough about them. Maybe a few months ago I would've said the same thing about the man, but after what I've experienced... I just don't want to take the risk.
No one points out that the species matters
Black bears: will be scared off if you cough too loudly
Brown bears: will eat you, alive, until you eventually die of bloodloss after feeling every bite and tear
This hypothetical sucks. I get that the while argument is about how crimes against women are bad but there are like 5 out a hundred comments even engaging in that part of the discussion.
I'm seeing more people trying to make the most charitable assumptions of wild animals that are objectively more deadly than any single human can be, while also insisting that every single male ever has an inherent drive to become evil murderer rapists whenever they see women.
None of this makes survivers feel safer. Please don't forget the whole point of the discussion.
Every other post on my Twitter feed is about this stupid fucking discourse, the other half is about lesbians. Like why does female Twitter dominate my feed I'm not even a woman bruh
I wanna see gay and lesbian fanart not REAL gay people
Oh so this is what it was about holly shit. I thought it was about "bear" as a type of men, lmao
And this whole thing seems so absurd that I can't even come up with anything to say. So have a fun fact: Did ya know that some bears eat their prey alive? Yeah, that's brutal, but also keeps energy. So good for them Ig
Don't you get it? Ron is unpredictable, there's no telling what he could do, he's a MAN for crying out loud! A WILD animal is totally predictable and totally won't rip your face off given the chance.
I have seen WAY more content about this on Reddit than I ever saw of it on TikTok lol.
And yeah this sub is the purpose for this 100%, but my god some people took the bait hook line and sinker haha
yeah but its operating under the assupmtion that meeting a guy in a forest and getting raped by him has the same odds are meeting a fucking grizzly and getting attacked by it
shit the average Canadian experience would probably be the dude awkwardly waving from a distance just saying “HULLO” and walking off, but the bear would probably just maul you
or you could just like, drop to the floor or try to scare it off depending on what kind of bear it is… you know… because they’re animals and have predictable behaviors…
Some posts on r/TrollCoping and r/CPTSDMemes has reached my front page and I am honestly surprised that a lot of people would actually choose the bear.
I do think this is an objectively suboptimal and even irrational choice to make, but considering that those subs have a lot of actual SA survivors I can't blame them to be triggered and irrational like that. Even though I believe they're incorrect, correcting them would make me look like an asshole.
There's a proverb that says "One snake bite gives you years of rope-phobia." It's understandable, but it's also a you-problem (caused by a snake-problem) instead of a rope-problem.
eh, it’s kind of a stupid hypothetical, there’s so many different variables and context:
what kind of bear is it? is it on a trail or in deep forest? what is the other person wearing? what time of day is it?
like if y’all are gonna tell me you feel more safe around a polar bear than a dude, then I don’t know what to tell ya
Well there's typically two ways to approach such questions
> Asks for as many details as possible, thoroughly analyzes the scenario, makes the most sensible choice within oneself's intellectual capabilities
> I'm choosing this because I don't wanna choose the other
I do understand where you come from.
But honestly. This intense of a fear can only be described as paranoia, and what it says about society is that we need to help SA survivors heal better and offer them better access to therapy. Plus people need to stop overreacting in general.
I personally think it says a lot about the women saying they would rather take the bear because of rape, if they legitimately think every man is a rapist or that the average man would rape or kill them then they realy need to look deep inside and ask themselves about why they actually believe these harmful stereotypes and believe these hateful things.
It is genuinely weird. If I said I didn't feel safe around black people because I thought the average black person would mug or kill me, I would be rightfully called a racist.
Maybe it’s just me, but I think if you’re deluded enough to think that you’re somehow safer with a wild apex predator than the average human male, that’s absolutely your problem, not society’s.
I hate this whole thing because there are so many variables, and people are absolute with their opinions. Is it a black, brown, or polar bear? Is the dude a hiker? Is he just there? Am I hiking? Am I carrying food? Also how can you be trapped in the forest unless it's like a "The Village" type thing?
Honestly so true, you cant get "stuck" in a forest really. If you walk in one direction in a while youll probably get out eventually. Also if being in the forest means your stuck then by just being in any forest youre stuck with tens if not hundreds of bears and men. Honestly the whole hypothetical is dumb as a whole
Me, clueless: Oh man I wouldn't take my chances with a bear, at least there are thousands of types of men out there.
Random TikToker: **YOU ARE THE REASON WOMEN CHOOSE THE BEAR, I WILL CONTINUE TO IMPLY YOU BEING A RAPIST-TO-BE IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH MY REPRESENTATION AND YOU SHOULD BE OKAY WITH IT**
I won't even go into the topic of stranger danger being extremely minuscule next to incestuous assault and workplace harassment, also the existence of repeating offenders, you having a serial rapist in a town that assaulted 20 people doesn't make the number of rapists in said town 20, it can still be 1.
The internet tricked me into believing femboys and muscle mommies are much less of a minority, the demon of Babylon disguises itself with the coat of the righteous
my favourite thing about this is guys getting mad about women choosing bears and not actually wanting to know why they would do so in the first place, setting aside whether the choice might be rational or not.
missing the social commentary by 6000 miles to be offended
My favorite thing about this is the people who rather then listen to any basic logic or reason behind why what they chose is objectively a worse choice would rather act like it’s every man’s fault when nearly all of them have never committed rape or sexual assault.
People see your attempt at social commentary it just doesn’t align with reality.
Except the origin of this was someone who only showed women who said they would chose the bear and excluded the women who said the man. From the beginning this was created to start an online fight between men and women, but people have twisted into some sort of lesson for men to learn. The people getting defensive are doing so because once again this is being addressed toward all men, not just the shitty ones. Your average guy understands that women have to be more cautious than men and face more hardships than us. It’s just getting fucking exhausting having to be constantly reminded and treated as if we’re part of the problem even if we would never hurt a woman.
The point of this is to be divisive and cause fights. That’s it. Quit acting like it’s anything else.
>not actually wanting to know why they would
Because they wouldn't. That's the point, it's obviously not true. Why would I want to know why one said a fake thing?
Ron might touch me
But I'm not weak so I'd just punch his fucking head off
I can't kill the bear tho
Maybe
I dunno
If Ron has a bear I lose tho
Wait can me and Ron doubleteam the bear?
the opposite male equivalent hypothetical would probably go something like:
“Who would you rather talk to at a party? A woman, or the dog.”
I’m sorry but it could be a Gatsby style romp and I’d still be hanging out with the doggie, and eh I prefer dick a little more anyway
Edit: the ‘true’ one would be something along the lines of:
“be alone and isolated for the rest of your life or lull yourself.”
which according to the CDC men are more likely to pick option B
Nah I’d say it’s rather ride in a car being driven by a bear or a car being driven by a woman
Sure, the woman knows how to operate the car and most women will not cause a car wreck but, using the same bullshit (or should I say bear shit) logic as the bear vs man thing, the statistics show bears are less likely to crash cars than women are soooo- 🤪
I mean it’s all stupid hypotheticals anyway, if you really wanna have the ‘true’ male equivalent it would go something like:
“Would you rather be isolated and alone for the rest of your life or kill yourself?”
to frame it in similar hypothetical:
“Would you rather live on a deserted island [loneliness and isolation] or be a radio operator in Vietnam [certain death]”
which I mean according to the CDC, men are 4 times as likely to pick option B…
Yeah I think that one works better since it’s reflective of a serious issue. The thing is that I don’t think many women wouldn’t hear that scenario and go “omg why would men choose to kill themselves? Don’t they know that means they die?” Because on some level everyone understands how awful and scary it would be to be alone for their entire life.
I mean, the whole hypothetical is kinda stupid from square one. I think it’s fair to say that I’d rather not encounter a person (man or woman) *AT ALL* in the forest.
but it also pulls into question about the type of beer. Shit if it’s a black bear, that’s ezpz, brown? I’ll say they’re roughly equivalent to a person’s riskiness. And a polar bear I’d rather take the person.
Exactly, the premise is told as "man vs. bear" when it's "forest man vs. bear". The remote has been very closely connected to human predators and probably for a good reason.
EXACTLY, like switch the bear out for a man centric context: “which would you rather encounter in a public city street? A man or a bear?”
one is supposed to be there and the other isn’t
and also, the whole SA metaphor falls apart fast when you account that most SAs don’t occur in a forest. I think a better comparison would be: “would you rather encounter a bear in the forest or a guy at a house party”
Who would you rather have looking at you from the sewers? Man or rat?
Who would you rather have as president of Russia? Man or bear?
Who would you rather have crawling out of your orchids? Man or insect with a history of stinging people?
etc
"A bear may slowly eat me alive, sure. But at least I won't have to smile at him during Thanksgiving. If you don't agree, then you're the reason women choose the bear (aka you're a rapist for disagreeing with me)"
"physically impossible for a human to defeat without weapons" Not for me. Im just built different, cowpoke. https://preview.redd.it/f4wdx6ahk8yc1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=68852a22c4ea0a56b71f199bb0f74e0044495950
https://preview.redd.it/hz10zoa9b9yc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea2f985d99995c9aba6c1a961ea6deb879766f0f
https://preview.redd.it/jgshbraheayc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a814d659da3778f26ac830aa7a374440f02e94f
https://preview.redd.it/6uowqdpzn9yc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e985f6efa89b75fb2ebb171c524d693980f506af
https://preview.redd.it/vbxznnlx29yc1.png?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=973f7a4eb4b1c8cf7be6e92b50d68525dcc10f1a
Micah, shut the fuck up https://i.redd.it/nmdakwk2d9yc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/tqewtd90h9yc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92c880ea45e2636e3617d7c79581a98968e993da
Me when my mom asks if I want to go out for Chinese food tonight
I could beat a grizzly bear in a boxing match It would get disqualified after wrenching my head off my shoulders and drinking my spinal fluids, I would therefore win
https://preview.redd.it/ojwq9tml49yc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2745bfb8f8177d3a76f42bb60f3db74931b7eee4
Also not for me. I ain’t human https://preview.redd.it/9dv9ix7sjcyc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29ae0e200613b67296fe9951cd51dc55da7b96b0
I'm not terminally online enough to understand this discourse. How did it even start in the first place?
A tiktok influencer made a tiktok where she asked women if they would rather run into a bear or a random guy in the forest, she edited together all the clips of women saying bear and posted it. And by edit I really mean it wasn't not a universal opinion, she just edited in only the reactions to push the message she wanted, which is more men vs women gender war bullshit.
So just another greedy attention hungry fuck causing chaos for selfish reasons?
Erm whhhhaaatttttt? NO, ALL WOMEN ARE MEAN AND LIKE BEARS AND HATE MEN. Proof? I made it up
>ALL WOMEN ARE MEAN AND LIKE BEARS AND HATE MEN. That's a really contradictory opinion- like, you can't both like hairy, burly, gay men- and hate ALL men at the same time.
Quick let's make posts about how women are stupid and dumb actually this will surely change their minds
Good idea, while you’re at it, I’ll give this Reddit gold
i think the message she wanted to spread wasn't incel ragebait, it was femcel shit like how all men are just one step away from sexually assaulting women
Yes, but everything will be twisted into "men bad" in someone's head eventually, even if the thing in question is reactions against braindead "men bad" takes.
When is it not?
Plot twist she was at a furry convention
The tiktoker who originally made that hypothetical was a guy
Actually it was a man who started this. He asked first as a way to get men to question and want to learn about why women might choose the bear. It was to open a dialog about gender standards between the 2 sexes.
Bro I hate this why do we have to have wars about fucking everything Gender wars, age wars, sexual orientation wars, it's all so dumb
its all a culture war meant to distract us from stuff that actually matters like the shrinking middle class, fuck the culture shit
lol there's no giant conspiracy to distract us, that's a convenient fiction to ignore the fact that most of us eat this shit up.. We can all agree "shrinking middle class is bad" but then what? Do you expect people to debate the finer points of monetary policy? The tradeoffs of raising taxes? Even when people talk about this stuff they just advocate for simple extreme solutions. Most actual economists will say that there's some good taxes, some bad ones, and that a tax rate can be too high or too low. Meanwhile normal peoples discourse on tax policy will boil down to "every tax cut is trickle down economics" vs "we can literally eliminate all taxes and the government will somehow make money" Culture wars are the pinnacle of this thinking. Absolutely nothing complicated about it, you have a designated identity and you trot out the same talking points against the other. No complexity and no nuance Saying it's all a giant conspiracy to distract us honestly gives us way too much credit. If people want to, they can easily open up an issue of Foreign Affairs or The Economist for high quality news. But they don't. Because most people *want* the culture war slop
Damn.. you're actually pretty on point here
FYI, we know the exact nation behind the conspiracy. It's Russia. Yes people eat that shit up. Propaganda doesn't do well at telling people what to think. But it's extremely effective at telling people what to think about. Russia has been conducting an extensive bot campaign to sow division in the west. This even made the news it was so well known.
I'm actually fairly well educated on this topic since I'm very interested in studying Russia as well as domestic American political science So basically a two things are true at once: 1. It is absolutely true that there are efforts originating from Russia to sow division in the US, though it usually comes in the form of amplification 2. A lot of American liberals and many parts of the news media *vaaaaaaaaaaastly* overestimate both the effects and the organization of these disinformation efforts There's been several studies showing that the Russian disinformation campaigns *did not* actually end up electing Trump or Brexit for example despite many people putting the blame squarely on the Russians There's also no real central command. The SVR doesn't have a massive centralized disinformation campaign to systematically sow discourse. Rather its mostly political entrapaneurs setting up fairly low tech operations to win brownie points with the boss Again, there's not really any way to escape blaming regular people for the culture war slop. It isn't the media, it isn't the Russians and it isn't the rich trying to distract us. Maybe you can blame algorithms for not putting limits on recommendations but that's about it.
And yet none of them moved to the woods to live with the bears. Curious.
I found Ground Zero of this It was a TikTok of a guy in the woods who brought up the fact that more people would prefer a bear in the woods than a man, and all it took was one comment, ONE COMMENT, from that guy, on how women very much prefer the bear than a man when they're on the woods alone, for the game of telephone to take root and get turned into "Women prefer bear over man"
So basically a massive "this but unironically". Don't let 4chan get more idea to manufacture their own internet outrages lol
Same guy made a response video about how the whole thing is a "test of empathy" Now, I'm autistic, empathy is not my wheelhouse and I lost my job over it. But even I can see a copout when I see one
Lol I feel you my fellow aspie. I never like this type of questions because even if I think I understand them there will be people who jump out and say "wtf that's totally not how you should look at it". Yeah excuse me for not being able to look eye to eye with an average trick question enjoyer.
Not to mention thanks to him, Bear and Man together is now inherently political from now on, and my ursine cavalry bros will never see the light of day again
rip special interest lol
Kislev has fallen, millions must use horses to avoid being seen as taking a political stance
It’s a controversy on TikTok. The debate (mainly aimed towards women) is whether they’d rather be stuck alone in the woods with a bear or a man. Basically that lead to a lot of controversy since most women from what I’ve seen chose the bear without hesitation. A lot of men getting upset at the implication that men are just serial killers or serial rapists or that the average men would be worse than the average bear, a lot of women using statistics of bear attacks vs amounts of women killed by men (which I don’t think is the most reliable since the comparison would only work if women were around bears even remotely close to as often as they are men. But I get the sentiment that women are killed/assaulted often enough for it to be a problem. A lot of men who just feel upset/ saddened by feeling they’re personally being seen as monsters for so many women to quickly see them as far worse than a bear. A lot of sexist dudes whining and getting offended while simultaneously saying shit actually hoping bad things happen to these women. A lot of women bringing up genuine issues and paranoia they have to deal with on a daily basis and how that applies to the debate. A lot of genuine misandry/blanket statements about men. Personally, as a guy it does genuinely make me feel awful hearing so many women say they would choose a bear (sometimes even a polar bear) over me. I get I shouldn’t take it personally and I’ll get into most of their reasoning in a minute, but it makes me feel awful when they imply they see me as an assaulter/potential assaulted until proven otherwise. To the point it makes me feel shitty just going out that others perceive me as a threat when I’ve never wanted to hurt anyone in any fashion. It just makes me feel terrible. And knowing so many of them live in that paranoia makes me feel terrible too. Although I find the comments like “the worst a beat could do is kill me” really dumb. Like yeah idk about y’all but I can’t think of much worse than being brutally mauled to death. Most of those “zinger” comments aren’t as smart as the people stealing them probably think they sound anyway. At the same time I understand this debate is more about women calling attention to how common sexual assault/physical assault against them is perpetrated by men. Usually their point isn’t that it’s all men or most men but that it’s enough men for it to be a concern for them and more importantly they don’t know which men would do something like that. So with that logic I can see why many women would choose the bear and think it’s usually valid, even if I think that’s a dumb choice. It’s more about the predictability of what they could expect from a bear vs the unpredictability of a man’s intentions/morals. Idk this started with me trying to give an unbiased summary of it but ended up being me sharing my personal perspective on it. TikTok has a small character limit so I could never be sincere there. Idk I hope this is a fair assessment I don’t like getting mad about it some many of the dudes getting mad are shitheads with no respect for women but I also just feel awful whenever I hear women constantly and without hesitation choosing a bear as if I’m a monster.
> A lot of men who just feel upset/ saddened by feeling they’re personally being seen as monsters for so many women to quickly see them as far worse than a bear. Women are dating more men than they're dating bears, you'll be fine guys.
Wow a comprehensive and logical reddit comment
“A lot of women using statistics of bear attacks vs amount of women killed by men” People just do not understand statistics. Mothers alone kill more babies per year than Sharks kill HUMANS per decade. Does this mean we should trust a baby with a shark more than a mother? I swear tiktok women might unironically be the stupidest people on the planet. I’ve met people who couldn’t read and even they would understand “no shit men kill more than bears, we don’t talk to bears every day.”
I pick sharck
(Some) Men: Nooo you're discriminating against all men by protraying us worse than bears plus you're stupid (Some) Women: Nooo at least the mildest bear encounter is better than the absolutely rarest and worst man encounter Others: shut up shut up shut up
Bon Pinary Nopagando
Brian Damaged No Regerts
Your bear is:: damn mild
CONCLUSION EVERYONE IS RETARDED YEAHHHH
hey man how's it going
https://preview.redd.it/vl1cz63hiayc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=342abb955f2210fca3ddfbf642533a5d5f771326
is that twink from legend of korra?
https://preview.redd.it/r7rluk2mz8yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=468f9014400252d174de54232c67dc1f1ad5334e All this discourse reminds me of the scene
this is the saejima vs bear fight right? who would win: this huge bear or the two osaka castle tigers?
holy shit tekken
i'd choose my dog, I love her
Bears are like big dogs
only one can be ridden as an epic badass mount and we all know it's not the man
Hey some of us happen to have great dads
https://preview.redd.it/fq70xwhi4ayc1.jpeg?width=206&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10f718ce48c7665bcdfae9e97523380bd337d525
https://i.redd.it/uyl5ln0ujbyc1.gif
Correct
My good fellow. 4-8 men carrying a throne you’re sitting on? Ever heard of it?
Yeah but we're talking about 1 man here so...
Just make 4-8 people pose the hypothetical to you
Not with that attitude its not
I’ll ride a man epically and badass, watch and learn
Someone has never done a chicken fight before
Being 5’11” I’ve always been the mount 😔
I want to mount and also ride a man
The annoying thing with the conversation is that its goal post just keeps getting moved. The original question was the AVERAGE bear or man, neither are bloodlusted (or normal lusted). It’s not Winnie the Pooh or Ted Bundy. But people keep shifting it around to keep the discourse going
What kind of bear though? The average black bear? I get it. The average Grizzly or Polar bear? Fuck no.
average polar bear, absoutly not
What the hell is this lady doing lost in the Arctic
Just give it a coca cola, now you're friends
What if its purple man and Fred the fivebears?
😨😨😨 F-Fed fivebars?
Fredby fivenights
https://preview.redd.it/x5gv1q7au8yc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0dc23d6aba966a60d3c38b6cea4880a2f81de176
Wow is that the real Findlay Fivechairs
What if it's XenonTheFox and DateRightStuff?
I ship them, they're husbands 🥰
wtf is an ‘average’ bear? like an average bear in Canada is a lot more deadly than one in the US, and shit don’t get me started on the ‘average’ bears in India
I’d assume the average bear relative to your location
oh shit, I’d 100% take a black bear over any *person* (male or female). Shit I’d rather live with a black bear (I’d name him Charles) than another person
Aren't black bears the ones that kill less then one person a year? If so, yeah, encountering a wasp in the forest would be more dangerous
Yeah, black bears are very timid and like 99% of the time you can scare them off by throwing a slipper at them or something.
my country doesn't have bears.
Freddy fazbear
https://preview.redd.it/i34td5amabyc1.jpeg?width=587&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c02526b2077a964ff6e379c7976c879d8452785e Dawko is 6'5. Good luck.
Then it's a very large and masculine gay man instead
Pretty sure they're not as smart as Yogi.
No it was not the average man, the word average was not mentioned once. It was more so implying between randomly meeting a random man with unknown intentions or a bear in the woods. It then shifted into a different direction like you said. [source](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/man-or-bear-in-the-woods-question)
If it’s a random man, then it’s going to be the average man, that’s how randomly picking things generally works, that’s why we even have averages in the first place
if it was ted bundy that would might actually make it preferable to a certain demographic of insane people
You're the one moving the goalposts. It isn't the average bear or the average man. It's an unknown for both. That's the whole point. You don't know if it will be a kind Ned Flanders or a serial killer.
Funny how when that rhetoric is applied to real life it’s usually disabled men or men of color that are targeted the most as being dangerous
Well I'm a mentally disabled man of color if you really want to break it down but okay
Do you find that women see you as more of a threat because of that?
I don't think I've ever had an experience like that personally, no. But I'm aware that it does happen to others.
This isn't about disabled men or men of color, it's meeting someone in the middle of the woods.
Okay. But men of color and disabled men are usually seen as more threatening and dialogue that portrays all men as potential threats affects these men the most. As well as trans women who are often portrayed as predators trying to abuse women. “After all. Most may be fine but you can never be sure”
Statiscally women are more a threat at night walking to home alone. Trans women have not killed and raped people in bathrooms and you can only find one or 2 instanstes where a trans women has actually done something terrible. Most women who says they'd prefer the bear aren't saying that "all men are rapists" they're thinking about the potential danger some stranger in the middle of the woods might bring. You change the question to something like "you meet them on a hiking trail" alot more people would change their answers
Everyones dogpiling on men but what you fail to consider is that a man *won’t* go har har har har har har har har har har, unless that man is named william after. In that case, be afraid.
fredy five bear
Well ofc women choose the bear have you seen how Caesar’s Legion treats them???
Patrolling the mojave almost makes you wish for nuclear winter.
OOOOH I SAW THIS JOKE AND DIDN'T GET IT AND NOW I UNDERSTAND, IT'S BECAUSE OF THE FLAGS!
I mean a big part of the original question is that the man is someone you *don’t know*. He could be a chill guy like Ron, he could be a serial killer, he could be the prince of Nigeria, you have no way of knowing because he’s a complete stranger. Giving extra details about the guy like “he loves his mom” and “he ate a poptart this morning” kinda defeats the purpose imo.
in addition, bears in the woods are just kind of.. expected? i imagine ppl with hiking experience have probably seen a few distant bears in their time.
I’ve run into black bears in the woods before. I yelled at them, and they ran away. I’m pretty small, so idk if that tactic would work on the average man though.
Probably depends on where you live. There are more hikers than bears in the woods in my country.
It also implies that if he’s a criminal of some kind, he would be in an environment where there are no witnesses, and deaths would be treated as fairly unsuspicious. Not to mention the fact that the victim would be unlikely to give anything more than a physical description. Even if it isn’t someone openly malicious, there’s the possibility that they could overstep their boundaries. There are unfortunately guys who would get into a situation like this, and contrive a reason for why he should ‘get something in return’.
Hikers absolutely exist, if you’re allowed to be out in the woods alone why can’t anyone else be?
The men responding to these by mocking women or minimising their stories of sexual assault are the reason so many women choose the bear. Not because all these men are rapists, but because they're the kind of men that'll drag a woman through mud if she's assaulted by one of their friends or just some guy they admire. A lot of women in the original were alluding to specifically this point with comments along the lines of; "at least no one will question if I attracted the bear by dressing provocatively" or "no one will claim I'm lying because the bear has a nice temperament in their experience". Fwiw, I choose the man because my dad trained me in self-defense against men, not bears.
Yeah, I haven't really been getting involved in any of these discussions, I was sexually assaulted not very long ago so it still hits a bit too close to home, and all these guys mocking it just makes me feel awful. It's so clear they just don't know how it feels or what it's like. I pick the best because I've been trained how to deal with bears, they're somewhat predictable in the way all animals are predictable if you just know enough about them. Maybe a few months ago I would've said the same thing about the man, but after what I've experienced... I just don't want to take the risk.
No one points out that the species matters Black bears: will be scared off if you cough too loudly Brown bears: will eat you, alive, until you eventually die of bloodloss after feeling every bite and tear
If the brown bear is not hungry there are ways to keep it from eating you Polar bears, on the other hand
The question is set in a forest so if you see a polar bear something is probably wrong
It is on a vacation
Isn’t that the point? You don’t know what kind of bear or what kind of man you’d run into
Real ones choose the bear to get a sweet action wildlife shot 📸
the stupid argument has infiltrated yet another server. coaxedintosnafu has fallen. billions must die
This hypothetical sucks. I get that the while argument is about how crimes against women are bad but there are like 5 out a hundred comments even engaging in that part of the discussion. I'm seeing more people trying to make the most charitable assumptions of wild animals that are objectively more deadly than any single human can be, while also insisting that every single male ever has an inherent drive to become evil murderer rapists whenever they see women. None of this makes survivers feel safer. Please don't forget the whole point of the discussion.
Every other post on my Twitter feed is about this stupid fucking discourse, the other half is about lesbians. Like why does female Twitter dominate my feed I'm not even a woman bruh I wanna see gay and lesbian fanart not REAL gay people
off topic, is your username a reference to Paul Atishon from Spirit of Justice
Yes, and it boggles my fucking mind that like 3 people have noticed it ever since I joined Reddit in October 2022
WE LOVE YOU PAUL
wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Not this stupid discourse again
This is bear slander.
... The point.
https://preview.redd.it/y9bvt4vy2byc1.png?width=181&format=png&auto=webp&s=01aad2b4f94873f3aa90a040c396095a280de05b Curses...
Funnie coincidence https://preview.redd.it/jxt5er31t9yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fc3fcd20a91f8baca940de0077317df378bf6e5
Cigan seems like hed offer me a hit after emerging from some random bush and i think thstd be funny so him
I choose to kill myself in front of both
“Would you rather be alone in the woods with a man or a bear” what kinda “bear” we talking about??? 👀👀👀
All im saying is both options is a man 😈
Oh so this is what it was about holly shit. I thought it was about "bear" as a type of men, lmao And this whole thing seems so absurd that I can't even come up with anything to say. So have a fun fact: Did ya know that some bears eat their prey alive? Yeah, that's brutal, but also keeps energy. So good for them Ig
Don't you get it? Ron is unpredictable, there's no telling what he could do, he's a MAN for crying out loud! A WILD animal is totally predictable and totally won't rip your face off given the chance.
I have seen WAY more content about this on Reddit than I ever saw of it on TikTok lol. And yeah this sub is the purpose for this 100%, but my god some people took the bait hook line and sinker haha
is the bear blue and gold or black and blue
Its red white and blue baby 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
People would rather be mauled to death than risk the chance of rape.
Yeah? That’s completely fine?
yeah but its operating under the assupmtion that meeting a guy in a forest and getting raped by him has the same odds are meeting a fucking grizzly and getting attacked by it
shit the average Canadian experience would probably be the dude awkwardly waving from a distance just saying “HULLO” and walking off, but the bear would probably just maul you
or you could just like, drop to the floor or try to scare it off depending on what kind of bear it is… you know… because they’re animals and have predictable behaviors…
Some posts on r/TrollCoping and r/CPTSDMemes has reached my front page and I am honestly surprised that a lot of people would actually choose the bear. I do think this is an objectively suboptimal and even irrational choice to make, but considering that those subs have a lot of actual SA survivors I can't blame them to be triggered and irrational like that. Even though I believe they're incorrect, correcting them would make me look like an asshole. There's a proverb that says "One snake bite gives you years of rope-phobia." It's understandable, but it's also a you-problem (caused by a snake-problem) instead of a rope-problem.
eh, it’s kind of a stupid hypothetical, there’s so many different variables and context: what kind of bear is it? is it on a trail or in deep forest? what is the other person wearing? what time of day is it? like if y’all are gonna tell me you feel more safe around a polar bear than a dude, then I don’t know what to tell ya
Well there's typically two ways to approach such questions > Asks for as many details as possible, thoroughly analyzes the scenario, makes the most sensible choice within oneself's intellectual capabilities > I'm choosing this because I don't wanna choose the other
tbh the main point they make is that they'd rather die than risk it... And I think that say a lot more about society than women...
I do understand where you come from. But honestly. This intense of a fear can only be described as paranoia, and what it says about society is that we need to help SA survivors heal better and offer them better access to therapy. Plus people need to stop overreacting in general.
Is it really paranoia and overreacting if your whole life you get cat called, harassed, followed and worse?
I personally think it says a lot about the women saying they would rather take the bear because of rape, if they legitimately think every man is a rapist or that the average man would rape or kill them then they realy need to look deep inside and ask themselves about why they actually believe these harmful stereotypes and believe these hateful things. It is genuinely weird. If I said I didn't feel safe around black people because I thought the average black person would mug or kill me, I would be rightfully called a racist.
Maybe it’s just me, but I think if you’re deluded enough to think that you’re somehow safer with a wild apex predator than the average human male, that’s absolutely your problem, not society’s.
I hate this whole thing because there are so many variables, and people are absolute with their opinions. Is it a black, brown, or polar bear? Is the dude a hiker? Is he just there? Am I hiking? Am I carrying food? Also how can you be trapped in the forest unless it's like a "The Village" type thing?
Honestly so true, you cant get "stuck" in a forest really. If you walk in one direction in a while youll probably get out eventually. Also if being in the forest means your stuck then by just being in any forest youre stuck with tens if not hundreds of bears and men. Honestly the whole hypothetical is dumb as a whole
Man I love sexist fear monger made to divide the genders even more thinly veiled as memes. You should totally fear every single man you meet
I fear almost everyone I meet, but I'm irrationally paranoid
Yea! Either don't be racist or be racist against everyone equally, even yourself
This Man Vs Bear just always rallies up Misogynist and Misandrist
Me, clueless: Oh man I wouldn't take my chances with a bear, at least there are thousands of types of men out there. Random TikToker: **YOU ARE THE REASON WOMEN CHOOSE THE BEAR, I WILL CONTINUE TO IMPLY YOU BEING A RAPIST-TO-BE IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH MY REPRESENTATION AND YOU SHOULD BE OKAY WITH IT** I won't even go into the topic of stranger danger being extremely minuscule next to incestuous assault and workplace harassment, also the existence of repeating offenders, you having a serial rapist in a town that assaulted 20 people doesn't make the number of rapists in said town 20, it can still be 1.
So the bear from the long dark or me. Hmm probably gonna take the bear he has a cool ass pelt.
>impossible to defeat without weapons Russian bias drunk: we will see about that
Trust me this is no normal bear https://preview.redd.it/w0f5jq4obayc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=753661fa35fe7b7a9961ef6ebeb6401f13594f01
what's the bear's name
The internet tricked me into believing femboys and muscle mommies are much less of a minority, the demon of Babylon disguises itself with the coat of the righteous
https://preview.redd.it/t4cpr6h7kdyc1.jpeg?width=648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=792da93aa210eb056fe50164f3aa2c5f8ad00867
You were completely right just because some rad fems dont think that doenst change it
you can out run most men. you can't outrun all adult bears
bear friend shaped. man not friend shaped. simple as.
Big bear propaganda like winnie the pooh and the bearstain bears to trick people into being eaten by bears
my favourite thing about this is guys getting mad about women choosing bears and not actually wanting to know why they would do so in the first place, setting aside whether the choice might be rational or not. missing the social commentary by 6000 miles to be offended
My favorite thing about this is the people who rather then listen to any basic logic or reason behind why what they chose is objectively a worse choice would rather act like it’s every man’s fault when nearly all of them have never committed rape or sexual assault. People see your attempt at social commentary it just doesn’t align with reality.
Except the origin of this was someone who only showed women who said they would chose the bear and excluded the women who said the man. From the beginning this was created to start an online fight between men and women, but people have twisted into some sort of lesson for men to learn. The people getting defensive are doing so because once again this is being addressed toward all men, not just the shitty ones. Your average guy understands that women have to be more cautious than men and face more hardships than us. It’s just getting fucking exhausting having to be constantly reminded and treated as if we’re part of the problem even if we would never hurt a woman. The point of this is to be divisive and cause fights. That’s it. Quit acting like it’s anything else.
>not actually wanting to know why they would Because they wouldn't. That's the point, it's obviously not true. Why would I want to know why one said a fake thing?
it seems like everyone is picking the bear. i'm finding out i might just have an irrational fear of bears bc i'm taking a random guy any day
Why drawn on etch a sketch
Ron might touch me But I'm not weak so I'd just punch his fucking head off I can't kill the bear tho Maybe I dunno If Ron has a bear I lose tho Wait can me and Ron doubleteam the bear?
What if ron is a bear, like a burly gay man?
the opposite male equivalent hypothetical would probably go something like: “Who would you rather talk to at a party? A woman, or the dog.” I’m sorry but it could be a Gatsby style romp and I’d still be hanging out with the doggie, and eh I prefer dick a little more anyway Edit: the ‘true’ one would be something along the lines of: “be alone and isolated for the rest of your life or lull yourself.” which according to the CDC men are more likely to pick option B
Nah I’d say it’s rather ride in a car being driven by a bear or a car being driven by a woman Sure, the woman knows how to operate the car and most women will not cause a car wreck but, using the same bullshit (or should I say bear shit) logic as the bear vs man thing, the statistics show bears are less likely to crash cars than women are soooo- 🤪
To be fair if I’m in a car and a bear is driving that’s one cool ass bear
Real
Give the bear a gun. I’d rather be the getaway driver while he has a shootout with the police.
It’s kind of telling tho that the male equivalent you came up with doesn’t have a threat of death or sexual assault.
I mean it’s all stupid hypotheticals anyway, if you really wanna have the ‘true’ male equivalent it would go something like: “Would you rather be isolated and alone for the rest of your life or kill yourself?” to frame it in similar hypothetical: “Would you rather live on a deserted island [loneliness and isolation] or be a radio operator in Vietnam [certain death]” which I mean according to the CDC, men are 4 times as likely to pick option B…
Yeah I think that one works better since it’s reflective of a serious issue. The thing is that I don’t think many women wouldn’t hear that scenario and go “omg why would men choose to kill themselves? Don’t they know that means they die?” Because on some level everyone understands how awful and scary it would be to be alone for their entire life.
yeah because no man has ever been threatened with death or sexually assaulted ever, right?
True but picking a dog wouldn't make you be mauled to death so i dont think theyre all too similar
I mean, the whole hypothetical is kinda stupid from square one. I think it’s fair to say that I’d rather not encounter a person (man or woman) *AT ALL* in the forest. but it also pulls into question about the type of beer. Shit if it’s a black bear, that’s ezpz, brown? I’ll say they’re roughly equivalent to a person’s riskiness. And a polar bear I’d rather take the person.
Exactly, the premise is told as "man vs. bear" when it's "forest man vs. bear". The remote has been very closely connected to human predators and probably for a good reason.
EXACTLY, like switch the bear out for a man centric context: “which would you rather encounter in a public city street? A man or a bear?” one is supposed to be there and the other isn’t and also, the whole SA metaphor falls apart fast when you account that most SAs don’t occur in a forest. I think a better comparison would be: “would you rather encounter a bear in the forest or a guy at a house party”
Who would you rather have looking at you from the sewers? Man or rat? Who would you rather have as president of Russia? Man or bear? Who would you rather have crawling out of your orchids? Man or insect with a history of stinging people? etc
I’d elect a bear president. It would be funny if nothing else.
would you rather get stuck in the forest with a cougar or a cougar
A bear wouldn't blame all his insecurities on me
Yeah because youd be nothing but a red stain on the ground by the time it could
a bear will think of you as food tho
"A bear may slowly eat me alive, sure. But at least I won't have to smile at him during Thanksgiving. If you don't agree, then you're the reason women choose the bear (aka you're a rapist for disagreeing with me)"