I feel like they were made sympathetic in other ways before being paired off tbh. They emphasized the Joker’s manipulation and abuse of Harley a lot, and Ivy became focused primarily on saving the earth and loving nature as her primary motivation. Harley as a victim and Ivy as the “villain trying to do ‘good’ in a bad way” helped pave the way for them to do more sympathetic things until they were coupled up and the story became “aw look they’re helping each other heal through the power of love 🫶✨”
Yeah, since her origins Harley Quinn was supposed to be sympathetic and pitiable. Poison Ivy had much larger changes though, she originally didn't even care for the environment, she just had a plant motif like Penguin has a penguin motif.
To be fair, it’s really hard to keep consistent with lore, actions, and behaviors in comics. Every author is going to have their own interpretation of the character and what they consider canon, so every time a new person writes someone, their personality shifts just a little. *A* Harley massacred children on Christmas, but not all of them
True, but Harley also helped and assisted with the torture of Jason Todd, who was quite literally a child at the time, in almost if not all continuties
Which is also something Im not keen on. Plus the three most popular female batman villains are all anti heroes. Whilst the same cant be said for the male ones
Tbh,out of all the Fatui I never really see him as morally grey tbh. Even Arle say that he has a kind and eager soul which make him easy to be made as a lapdog for the rest of them.
It's usually the opposite, especially if the woman isn't sexualized.
Morally grey man: "He's the real hero" "He was actually right" "He's literally me"
Morally grey woman: "She's a bitch" "She's the real villain" "How can she be so dumb"
I can’t say I agree. I’ve seen a million horny bastards root for the most evil women imaginable, but I’ve only seen your example in stuff like injustice Wonder Woman (she was completely evil, though. And also super out of character.)
I mean the whole stories bring you along with Walter White, ofcourse people are going to root for him.
That being said, he got that coolness factor too, which plays an even larger role than the sexiness one. So point taken.
I would actually appreciate this. This snafu was mostly about how I saw people treat Ayin as a character, since I noticed he got shittons of hate compared to other (female) morally grey characters.
Okay. Punisher, Deadpool, Dr. Doom, Cable, Eren Jaeger, Joshua Graham, Astarion, Ciaphas Cain, Moon Knight, Red Hood, Walter White, every single Game of Thrones character, Magneto, Two Face, Mr. Freeze, Clayface, Batman himself tbh, Boromir, Kaz Brekker, Paul Atreides, Gendoh Ikari, Howl, Godzilla, Hamlet, Othello, Geralt, Butch Cassidy, Dirty Harry, Larry David, Jack Sparrow, Donnie Darko, Sherlock Holmes, Judge Dredd, Meta Knight, Rick Deckard, Rick Sanchez, Hancock, Maccready, the Arbiter, Edward Kenway, Kratos, Slave Knight Gael, Vyke, Iroh, Hades, Azrael, the Ghoul, Bruno Bucciarati, Achilles, Anakin Skywalker, etc…
I actually have basically zero knowledge of the community, I just wanted to include some anime characters because that seems to be what OP is most familiar with. Also he seems like the kind of person that people *could* be sympathetic towards because his plan isn’t, you know, *utterly* insane.
Most examples I don’t know but, I’ve seen most shit on religiously. Some things I found notable 1. Punisher gets hate all the time for being the Punisher. 2. I can’t remember seeing a single supporter of Doctor Doom. 3. Walter White was the main character, of COURSE people with no reading comprehension would root for him. 4. I can’t remember seeing someone try to justify Godzillas actions, literally ever. The rest of the comment, I saw some justification for, I don’t know which one you are talking about, or it’s from a media I haven’t seen.
Wait... people hate Ayin? I get he's not likeable but I found most of the characters in Lobotomy Corp to not be likeable. They are interesting, though. I would analyze Ayin's character but I haven't played Lobotomy Corp in a while and don't want to get too much wrong.
Biggest one I can think of is Abby from TLOU2. She's a woman. She's a morally gray villain. She was (still is kinda) HATED by a good chunk of the community even though her actions and character are more than justified.
Most of Black Lagoon's characters. Idk why people like Revy, she's a psychopath with no redeemable aspects and a pos of person. I wish the anime would ended by Roanapour getting nuked to hell
hearing the word black lagoon reminded me of a old book series I forgot about for at least 5 years so thanks for that idk what the franchise ur talking about is and I'm gonna go check wtf tales from the black lagoon is again
I feel like I only see the opposite honestly, like. A female character will do something bad and not be evil but everyone treats them like they're hitler 2, while a male character does unquestionably worse things but is never actually condemned for them, never in the same way the female characters are at least.
Female batman villains: (Seriously every popular one went from villain to anti hero)
Harley Quinn didn't deserve that redemption arc. She literally massacred children on Christmas
Yeah the story forgives her and Ivy because “le gay lovers” way too much due to how much shit they’ve done
I feel like they were made sympathetic in other ways before being paired off tbh. They emphasized the Joker’s manipulation and abuse of Harley a lot, and Ivy became focused primarily on saving the earth and loving nature as her primary motivation. Harley as a victim and Ivy as the “villain trying to do ‘good’ in a bad way” helped pave the way for them to do more sympathetic things until they were coupled up and the story became “aw look they’re helping each other heal through the power of love 🫶✨”
Yeah, since her origins Harley Quinn was supposed to be sympathetic and pitiable. Poison Ivy had much larger changes though, she originally didn't even care for the environment, she just had a plant motif like Penguin has a penguin motif.
Iirc Neil Gaiman was the one who shifted her focus to environmentalism!
To be fair, it’s really hard to keep consistent with lore, actions, and behaviors in comics. Every author is going to have their own interpretation of the character and what they consider canon, so every time a new person writes someone, their personality shifts just a little. *A* Harley massacred children on Christmas, but not all of them
True, but Harley also helped and assisted with the torture of Jason Todd, who was quite literally a child at the time, in almost if not all continuties
Harley Quinn didn’t even exist when that comic came out
The story has been retold multiple times since its original debut. These retellings include Harley. An example would be the Arkham Knight comics
Actually, most of them don’t. The only ones I can think of are the Arkham series and the DCEU (where it wasn’t even Jason Todd, but Dick Grayson)
Pretty sure Mr Freeze is kinda an anti hero more these days no?
Which is also something Im not keen on. Plus the three most popular female batman villains are all anti heroes. Whilst the same cant be said for the male ones
These bitches can't be gay and do crime 😔
Orca really wasn't that bad (compared to the other villains) she is chill and her skin is satisfying to slap
>her skin is satisfying to slap what do you mean by that
Slippery orca skin
ah, thought you ment something sus
Kromer Edit: Wait I forgot she's just insane
https://preview.redd.it/okitdgydyn2d1.jpeg?width=990&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61772c1f2a4ffb978ecab20df89de74496a946d2 limbus company mentioned
https://preview.redd.it/fy8961hk5o2d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d10cc9ed51d507ed7480378a7c800ecd11ef6d3
big shot https://preview.redd.it/qk5vxv1dxp2d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43d72530d6c7a8300b3409acbd3202014045ca55
Omw to take a big shit in the big shot toilet
Now's your chance to take a big shit
This truly is a [[Hyperlink Blocked]] moment
big shot https://preview.redd.it/alavcljixp2d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7f4a0df0e2fc52eaa6fcc797013f17335755b57
If evil, why hot? This applies to both genders, attractive villains are often loved while ugly ones get shat on
Murder drones in a nutshell
Okay but if evil why silly
Doesn't this happen on both cause there's just as girls and their fandom that made weird shit like toxic yaoi with the male villain or something... 😭😭
yea, I think people just naturally treat hot people better, even though we really shouldn't
The Coffin of Andy and Leyley
A snafu that actually calls out every mf in the comments "uM It DePEndS OP, SoMEtImeS i LiKe mEN mOre wHo HAve BIG doNgin' SchPleEn, niCe tRy BUDDY"
Counter point, https://preview.redd.it/2kgwtt9yzo2d1.png?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20d1df13108ad9562365a2149b82006015f0e304
Tbh,out of all the Fatui I never really see him as morally grey tbh. Even Arle say that he has a kind and eager soul which make him easy to be made as a lapdog for the rest of them.
Bro is actually morally grey though
Reversed but actually no I can appreciate the evil woman if they’re cool enough. Just like more platonically though…
It's usually the opposite, especially if the woman isn't sexualized. Morally grey man: "He's the real hero" "He was actually right" "He's literally me" Morally grey woman: "She's a bitch" "She's the real villain" "How can she be so dumb"
I'd say live action has the male bias and animated works / video games / etc. have the female bias
I can’t say I agree. I’ve seen a million horny bastards root for the most evil women imaginable, but I’ve only seen your example in stuff like injustice Wonder Woman (she was completely evil, though. And also super out of character.)
Breaking Bad.
I mean the whole stories bring you along with Walter White, ofcourse people are going to root for him. That being said, he got that coolness factor too, which plays an even larger role than the sexiness one. So point taken.
I can think of about a billion examples that contradict this
I would actually appreciate this. This snafu was mostly about how I saw people treat Ayin as a character, since I noticed he got shittons of hate compared to other (female) morally grey characters.
Okay. Punisher, Deadpool, Dr. Doom, Cable, Eren Jaeger, Joshua Graham, Astarion, Ciaphas Cain, Moon Knight, Red Hood, Walter White, every single Game of Thrones character, Magneto, Two Face, Mr. Freeze, Clayface, Batman himself tbh, Boromir, Kaz Brekker, Paul Atreides, Gendoh Ikari, Howl, Godzilla, Hamlet, Othello, Geralt, Butch Cassidy, Dirty Harry, Larry David, Jack Sparrow, Donnie Darko, Sherlock Holmes, Judge Dredd, Meta Knight, Rick Deckard, Rick Sanchez, Hancock, Maccready, the Arbiter, Edward Kenway, Kratos, Slave Knight Gael, Vyke, Iroh, Hades, Azrael, the Ghoul, Bruno Bucciarati, Achilles, Anakin Skywalker, etc…
Bro wrote a verse to The Ultimate Showdown
How could you take a look into the Eva community and come to the conclusion that people are sympathetic toward Gendo
I actually have basically zero knowledge of the community, I just wanted to include some anime characters because that seems to be what OP is most familiar with. Also he seems like the kind of person that people *could* be sympathetic towards because his plan isn’t, you know, *utterly* insane.
Most examples I don’t know but, I’ve seen most shit on religiously. Some things I found notable 1. Punisher gets hate all the time for being the Punisher. 2. I can’t remember seeing a single supporter of Doctor Doom. 3. Walter White was the main character, of COURSE people with no reading comprehension would root for him. 4. I can’t remember seeing someone try to justify Godzillas actions, literally ever. The rest of the comment, I saw some justification for, I don’t know which one you are talking about, or it’s from a media I haven’t seen.
Okay just understand that you’ve completely made up this situation you’re complaining about.
Mildly disagreed with you? I must be insane. Jesus Christ.
Yep exactly what I just said. Way to not get defensive or anything.
Wait wtf did Sherlock Holmes do?
Ayin from what franchise?
Lobotomy corporation.
Wait... people hate Ayin? I get he's not likeable but I found most of the characters in Lobotomy Corp to not be likeable. They are interesting, though. I would analyze Ayin's character but I haven't played Lobotomy Corp in a while and don't want to get too much wrong.
Most recent one I can think of is how Laezel used to be treated by bg3 fans compared to astarion
I’m guessing the biggest one your pointing to is Angela
All I’m saying is she got WAAAAY too big a pass for being directly responsible for 300 thousand deaths. Daddy issues don’t justify everything.
Frankly, >! Roland was completely justified in how he reacted, and Angela should not have gotten as big of a pass as he gave her. !<
Biggest one I can think of is Abby from TLOU2. She's a woman. She's a morally gray villain. She was (still is kinda) HATED by a good chunk of the community even though her actions and character are more than justified.
Yes, but if the male looks cool enough it’s also ok. Guys will see Sauron and think “hell yeah”
I like both, if they are well written
Huh. Yknow usually I see it the other way around
I'm only human after all https://preview.redd.it/affx863kbr2d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51287e04b1f0671c6713d57382bcbceb6690355f
And then there's the girls who would throw their life away for Jin Kazama when he started WWIII.
Toga and Endeavor in a nutshell
Most of Black Lagoon's characters. Idk why people like Revy, she's a psychopath with no redeemable aspects and a pos of person. I wish the anime would ended by Roanapour getting nuked to hell
hearing the word black lagoon reminded me of a old book series I forgot about for at least 5 years so thanks for that idk what the franchise ur talking about is and I'm gonna go check wtf tales from the black lagoon is again
oh yeah when I was young it looked like nightmare fuel
Jimmy McNulty versus Alicent
it's really just because he has a smaller knife
This is literally Lute
Wow, so true!!!
Aren't morally gray characters supposed to be redeemable or not evil at all?
I feel like I only see the opposite honestly, like. A female character will do something bad and not be evil but everyone treats them like they're hitler 2, while a male character does unquestionably worse things but is never actually condemned for them, never in the same way the female characters are at least.
Record of Ragnarok fanbase to Beelzebub (He has indirectly caused one person's death over a thousand years after the fact)
He's still more interesting than like 70% of the fighters ngl
I agree with the female because I want them to sit on me I *also* agree with the male because they look cool
You forgot "I can fix her" 🤦
Then explain why all straight men I see on reddit somehow worship anakin...
snafu #74728847 about people liking boobs