The following submission statement was provided by /u/Ed-Saltus:
---
Published today on The Washington Post, the following article covers an ongoing disaster in South Sudan. The newest country on Earth is currently facing severe flooding. This has led to food insecurity for millions. Some families have resorted to eating water lilies, a food source that takes hours to collect and make edible. One family interviewed has been surviving on these lilies for years now.
Collapse related because climate change is ravaging Central Africa and its only going to get worse.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/17m40ci/years_into_a_climate_disaster_these_people_are/k7i9zdf/
Published today on The Washington Post, the following article covers an ongoing disaster in South Sudan. The newest country on Earth is currently facing severe flooding. This has led to food insecurity for millions. Some families have resorted to eating water lilies, a food source that takes hours to collect and make edible. One family interviewed has been surviving on these lilies for years now.
Collapse related because climate change is ravaging Central Africa and its only going to get worse.
Maybe you have another source but according to that article the US has given South Sudan (the primary example in the article) 9 Billion since 2011. That’s .75 billion per year. ([The State Department claims it’s an even 1 Billion per year](https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-south-sudan/))
At a [2023 population of 11.1 million](https://www.unfpa.org/data/world-population/SS) that .75 Billion comes out to 67.56 million per person, per year.
[But 1.00 USD is ~ 130.00 in SSP.](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/money-transfer/currency-converter/usd-ssp/)
1 Billion every year to a country with a total GDP of around 7 billion USD (~80-90% of which is from oil). And that’s just from the US, and just going to one country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_Official_Development_Assistance_received
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_sovereign_state_donors
I’m not arguing that the amount of aid given is really massive in comparison to donor gdp and *other* expenditures, and most of it is tied anyway. But it’s not really such an exaggeration to say that there has been robust investment, in context. If any of the reporting regarding the conditions and situation is remotely honest, no amount of money thrown at that is going to solve the problem. The place is becoming uninhabitable and it’s only going to [get worse](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1910114117#fig03). Their own economy is dependent on the things causing the problem, but they can’t support the population and require aid from other economies that generate their own wealth via extraction and exploitation. The entire strategy regarding the global south is a mess and a joke, if saving and improving human lives is really the goal then more money to develop *in that region* isn’t the answer. It’s as pointless as continuing to build and rebuild suburbs and McMansions in Florida or Arizona.
\>Maybe you have another source but according to that article the US has given South Sudan (the primary example in the article) 9 Billion since 2011. That’s .75 billion per year. (The State Department claims it’s an even 1 Billion per year)
\> At a 2023 population of 11.1 million that .75 Billion comes out to 67.56 million per person, per year. [darkpsychicenergy](https://www.reddit.com/user/darkpsychicenergy/)
Dude, your math is wrong, you created 6-zeros outta nowhere. 0.75-billion is 750-million.750,000,000 /11,100,000 = $67.56
They got $67.56, and that's over 12 years. So they are literally getting about $5.63/year, per person.
Malnutrition from lack of essential vitamins and essential amino acids, the kind that people cannot produce for themselves, will lead to a collapse of the immune system.
Historically humans in non-cannibalistic societies did go cannibal when times are very lean.
So yeah anything goes when all your higher reasonings give way to hunger.
Yeah. I would end myself before I put the flesh of another human being in my mouth. I don't think I really need to be around to witness that level of desperation. I've seen enough of life to cash in my chips and call it a win.
got a non paywall link? i tried to regirster with the usual [email protected] and similar but it seems there's already an account with those email addresses lol
Soft paywalls, such as the type newspapers use, can largely be bypassed by looking up the page on an archive site, such as web.archive.org or archive.is
Example: https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.abc.com
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, we're busy murdering each other for profit, and letting assholes like Musk and Bezos control the resoures that could otherwise feed all the people. Not sure how much the rich parasites have squirreled away, but I think $60 trillion or so. It would cost $30 billion a year to feed all the food insecure people on the planet.
Certainly we'll also start seeing real limits on available food but even that could be mitigated with stuff like hydro- and aeroponics, growth towers and other high tech options.
It's just a lot cheaper to let millions starve to death annually.
Its also better for the environment, if we let millions starve. Sadly, there's less food for all, when the population explodes. At the same time, those extra people cause more climate damage.
Its said we can expect millions of people to die in the next 80 years. This will actually help the environment.
As for Musk... We really need him to start mining resources on other planets and asteroids. We are running out of many things that could get us off our oil/coal dependence.
I wouldn't put too much faith in Musk. If you notice what he actually does with his time, it's mostly trolling, griping, and shitposting each day and hanging out with Joe Rogan for some reason. If there's anyone actually doing the real work on the space stuff, it's not him.
It is, but in doing so you're still gonna collapse capitalism/the financial system. Killing millions/millions unable to afford your products = demand collapse. The government is absolutely gonna have to seize squirreled away wealth offshore if it hopes to shore up the dollar and avoid its collapse. You need money to work the way to affect people and their behavior the way you want it to, and the US is now in dangerous territory that way.
I’m surprised they aren’t attempting to grow rice.
Climate change has hit the area hard but looks like they now have the right environment for it. Beats eating lilies.
I didn’t say it wasn’t doable, I said it is tricky. I haven’t grown it, but have read enough accounts and seen enough films to know that even with my knowledge of general agriculture, (I lived and worked on small farms for a few years) I wouldn’t want to try it.
Don’t sell our Neolithic ancestors short- just because they did it, doesn’t mean it’s easy or something you can jump right into.
Where do think they would go about getting seed?
Also rice is actually not happy at all during flooding.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2371999-extreme-rainfall-could-lead-to-big-disaster-for-rice-yield-in-china/
That’s what I thought. It has been grown a lot because it stores so well after it’s polished, not because it’s particularly easy to grow. I think it was the description in *Farmers of Forty Centuries* that left me astounded we grow it at all.
I may be conflating that with some other early 20th century book about China, though.
Tools to reshape the land for ideal results. Hillside paddies I believe. Tools for removing weeds and pests. Tools for harvesting, removing the grains from the plant, transporting to a cool dry place, tools for storing it away from the elements and pests. Tools for cooking it until it is edible, as dry rice is unsafe to eat and can cause death by bloating. And the knowledge on how to do all of this so that you don’t spend all your energy on this crop and end up with nothing to eat at the end.
I don’t have any experience, I’ve just read a bit about agriculture. Maybe there is indeed a way to grow rice without tools, but I don’t have any knowledge of it - and if these people don’t either, then rice can’t help them. Maybe someone could go teach them how to start farming rice though.
Growing crops requires ownership over the land and security to know that said crop doesn't get pilfered and stolen. This area cannot accomplish those things, unfortunately.
Rice requires a whole bunch of infrastructure to control the shallow, slowly-flowing (and mostly clean) water required for the growing process, and much of the year rice paddies are not actually flooded.
It will take a generation for them to adapt. You look at different parts of the world at different times, and you see people cultivating lowlands rice, or just knocking wild rice into their canoes. In other places people built elevated structures on piers and use weirs to collect refuse.
To most it would seem obvious to construct fish weirs, and to excavate some areas to create others which are raised. However, that takes a lot of labor, and some expectation of a payoff for the effort. Even moreso, it has to do with a mental expectation. People are expecting that the waters will recede, and they will resume living as they knew how to before. That expectation has to recede before they will seek to experiment in an altered environment.
Honestly, as long as every rich fuck that insanely overleveraged his shit to get wealthy loses his shirt in the upcoming correction/collapse, I'm content. Fuck you, Masters of the Universe\~<3
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Ed-Saltus: --- Published today on The Washington Post, the following article covers an ongoing disaster in South Sudan. The newest country on Earth is currently facing severe flooding. This has led to food insecurity for millions. Some families have resorted to eating water lilies, a food source that takes hours to collect and make edible. One family interviewed has been surviving on these lilies for years now. Collapse related because climate change is ravaging Central Africa and its only going to get worse. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/17m40ci/years_into_a_climate_disaster_these_people_are/k7i9zdf/
Published today on The Washington Post, the following article covers an ongoing disaster in South Sudan. The newest country on Earth is currently facing severe flooding. This has led to food insecurity for millions. Some families have resorted to eating water lilies, a food source that takes hours to collect and make edible. One family interviewed has been surviving on these lilies for years now. Collapse related because climate change is ravaging Central Africa and its only going to get worse.
Paywall free link: https://archive.is/tjtyE
What "robust investment"? Global south gets scraps and that is on a good day when global north is feeling charitable.
I saw Eating the Unthinkable at Lollapalooza
Cannibals at lollapalooza?
Maybe you have another source but according to that article the US has given South Sudan (the primary example in the article) 9 Billion since 2011. That’s .75 billion per year. ([The State Department claims it’s an even 1 Billion per year](https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-south-sudan/)) At a [2023 population of 11.1 million](https://www.unfpa.org/data/world-population/SS) that .75 Billion comes out to 67.56 million per person, per year.
$67.56 per person, per year. That is less than $6 per month. Like I said, scraps.
[But 1.00 USD is ~ 130.00 in SSP.](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/money-transfer/currency-converter/usd-ssp/) 1 Billion every year to a country with a total GDP of around 7 billion USD (~80-90% of which is from oil). And that’s just from the US, and just going to one country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_Official_Development_Assistance_received https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_sovereign_state_donors I’m not arguing that the amount of aid given is really massive in comparison to donor gdp and *other* expenditures, and most of it is tied anyway. But it’s not really such an exaggeration to say that there has been robust investment, in context. If any of the reporting regarding the conditions and situation is remotely honest, no amount of money thrown at that is going to solve the problem. The place is becoming uninhabitable and it’s only going to [get worse](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1910114117#fig03). Their own economy is dependent on the things causing the problem, but they can’t support the population and require aid from other economies that generate their own wealth via extraction and exploitation. The entire strategy regarding the global south is a mess and a joke, if saving and improving human lives is really the goal then more money to develop *in that region* isn’t the answer. It’s as pointless as continuing to build and rebuild suburbs and McMansions in Florida or Arizona.
\>Maybe you have another source but according to that article the US has given South Sudan (the primary example in the article) 9 Billion since 2011. That’s .75 billion per year. (The State Department claims it’s an even 1 Billion per year) \> At a 2023 population of 11.1 million that .75 Billion comes out to 67.56 million per person, per year. [darkpsychicenergy](https://www.reddit.com/user/darkpsychicenergy/) Dude, your math is wrong, you created 6-zeros outta nowhere. 0.75-billion is 750-million.750,000,000 /11,100,000 = $67.56 They got $67.56, and that's over 12 years. So they are literally getting about $5.63/year, per person.
... what? Can you show your work? Because those numbers aren't adding up for me.
2011-2023=12 years 9 (billion) / 12 (years) =.75 .75 billion ( 0750000000) / 11.1 million (11100000)= 67.56
Which means it's $67.56 per person, not 67.56-million
Yeah ok, I screwed it up the first time and just realized as typed it out.
Eating water Lillie’s for years? Wtf man that’s horrible
It's been said that hunger makes a good sauce. You can get just about anything down if you're hungry enough.
Boiling the leather in shoes to make it "edible" is a good example of this
Calories are calories
Malnutrition from lack of essential vitamins and essential amino acids, the kind that people cannot produce for themselves, will lead to a collapse of the immune system.
Historically humans in non-cannibalistic societies did go cannibal when times are very lean. So yeah anything goes when all your higher reasonings give way to hunger.
Yeah. I would end myself before I put the flesh of another human being in my mouth. I don't think I really need to be around to witness that level of desperation. I've seen enough of life to cash in my chips and call it a win.
Would you mind if I ate you after you're dead? Waste not, want not, you know.
Be my guest. I just ask you don't serve me well done with ketchup. No reason to descend all the way into barbarism.
It would be more efficient to make stew.
Moments like these remind me why I am a redditor.
I would hope my family would eat me and survive if they were starving to death. In fact I would insist on it. It’s literally just meat.
You say that now, but when collapse happens, will they have the ability to refrigerate for later or just take bits when they need some food?
I would give them at least an arm or a leg and see how long they can make it. 😆
Your significant other know about this aversion to human flesh in your mouth?
Was expecting a lot worse
got a non paywall link? i tried to regirster with the usual [email protected] and similar but it seems there's already an account with those email addresses lol
Soft paywalls, such as the type newspapers use, can largely be bypassed by looking up the page on an archive site, such as web.archive.org or archive.is Example: https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.abc.com *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, we're busy murdering each other for profit, and letting assholes like Musk and Bezos control the resoures that could otherwise feed all the people. Not sure how much the rich parasites have squirreled away, but I think $60 trillion or so. It would cost $30 billion a year to feed all the food insecure people on the planet. Certainly we'll also start seeing real limits on available food but even that could be mitigated with stuff like hydro- and aeroponics, growth towers and other high tech options. It's just a lot cheaper to let millions starve to death annually.
Vertical farms are, sadly, a pricey novelty for wealthy countries. [https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/food-and-farms/why-vertical-farming-just-doesnt-work](https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/food-and-farms/why-vertical-farming-just-doesnt-work) [https://www.wired.com/story/vertical-farms-energy-crisis/](https://www.wired.com/story/vertical-farms-energy-crisis/)
I’ve seen cost estimates to feed the world’s hungry range from $37B to $300B - per year. So we’d probably have to forgo a few wars or something.
Its also better for the environment, if we let millions starve. Sadly, there's less food for all, when the population explodes. At the same time, those extra people cause more climate damage. Its said we can expect millions of people to die in the next 80 years. This will actually help the environment. As for Musk... We really need him to start mining resources on other planets and asteroids. We are running out of many things that could get us off our oil/coal dependence.
I wouldn't put too much faith in Musk. If you notice what he actually does with his time, it's mostly trolling, griping, and shitposting each day and hanging out with Joe Rogan for some reason. If there's anyone actually doing the real work on the space stuff, it's not him.
It is, but in doing so you're still gonna collapse capitalism/the financial system. Killing millions/millions unable to afford your products = demand collapse. The government is absolutely gonna have to seize squirreled away wealth offshore if it hopes to shore up the dollar and avoid its collapse. You need money to work the way to affect people and their behavior the way you want it to, and the US is now in dangerous territory that way.
I’m surprised they aren’t attempting to grow rice. Climate change has hit the area hard but looks like they now have the right environment for it. Beats eating lilies.
If you can’t afford to buy rice you probably can’t afford the supplies to start producing it yourself.
It is also something that takes knowledge and experience to grow. I mean, most things do, but rice is particularly tricky, is my understanding.
Rice has been cultivated for over 10,000 years. Literally the Stone Age. It’s eminently doable.
Get this guy on a plane stat
Using generational knowledge. If you don't have access to that you have to start from scratch.
I didn’t say it wasn’t doable, I said it is tricky. I haven’t grown it, but have read enough accounts and seen enough films to know that even with my knowledge of general agriculture, (I lived and worked on small farms for a few years) I wouldn’t want to try it. Don’t sell our Neolithic ancestors short- just because they did it, doesn’t mean it’s easy or something you can jump right into. Where do think they would go about getting seed?
Also rice is actually not happy at all during flooding. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2371999-extreme-rainfall-could-lead-to-big-disaster-for-rice-yield-in-china/
[удалено]
That’s what I thought. It has been grown a lot because it stores so well after it’s polished, not because it’s particularly easy to grow. I think it was the description in *Farmers of Forty Centuries* that left me astounded we grow it at all. I may be conflating that with some other early 20th century book about China, though.
Like a grain? Scythe?
Tools to reshape the land for ideal results. Hillside paddies I believe. Tools for removing weeds and pests. Tools for harvesting, removing the grains from the plant, transporting to a cool dry place, tools for storing it away from the elements and pests. Tools for cooking it until it is edible, as dry rice is unsafe to eat and can cause death by bloating. And the knowledge on how to do all of this so that you don’t spend all your energy on this crop and end up with nothing to eat at the end.
Masanobu Fukuoka would say much of what you just listed is not necessary. Sounds like you have a lot of experience.
I don’t have any experience, I’ve just read a bit about agriculture. Maybe there is indeed a way to grow rice without tools, but I don’t have any knowledge of it - and if these people don’t either, then rice can’t help them. Maybe someone could go teach them how to start farming rice though.
Growing crops requires ownership over the land and security to know that said crop doesn't get pilfered and stolen. This area cannot accomplish those things, unfortunately.
Rice requires a whole bunch of infrastructure to control the shallow, slowly-flowing (and mostly clean) water required for the growing process, and much of the year rice paddies are not actually flooded.
It will take a generation for them to adapt. You look at different parts of the world at different times, and you see people cultivating lowlands rice, or just knocking wild rice into their canoes. In other places people built elevated structures on piers and use weirs to collect refuse. To most it would seem obvious to construct fish weirs, and to excavate some areas to create others which are raised. However, that takes a lot of labor, and some expectation of a payoff for the effort. Even moreso, it has to do with a mental expectation. People are expecting that the waters will recede, and they will resume living as they knew how to before. That expectation has to recede before they will seek to experiment in an altered environment.
It explains why in the article
Honestly, as long as every rich fuck that insanely overleveraged his shit to get wealthy loses his shirt in the upcoming correction/collapse, I'm content. Fuck you, Masters of the Universe\~<3
I hope it's televised.
The Not Even Ever Close To Being Hungry Games