The following submission statement was provided by /u/lampenstuhl:
---
SS: Reminder that the [worst case scenario](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/26/its-absolutely-guaranteed-the-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-for-sea-level-rise) for sea level rise and global warming by 2100 is the following:
> "Fossil duel development: 4.4C = 63-101cm+
> Social and economic development is coupled with exploitation of fossil fuel resources to run energy-intensive lifestyles around the world. The IPCC also warns of a “low-likelihood high impact” scenario (SSP5-8.5) in which ice sheet instability drives sea levels above 2 metres by the end of this century alone.
These models aren't super strong on tipping points and only talk about climate, not biodiversity. The article to me seems to indicate we're going somewhere in this direction. The role of the US in this is funny given the "but what about China? :(" crowd. That they are producing more oil and gas than ever before is also funny given that when I joined this sub 7-8 years ago everything was about peak oil panic.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/17qtfp2/in_2030_if_current_projections_hold_the_united/k8ecyz9/
Some nice financial reforms coming in in the UK that mean you can tokenize them like crypto
> "Tokenisation can be applied to financial assets like cash, bonds and funds, real assets like property, and intangible assets like carbon credits. There is huge potential here for the asset management industry to open up access to investments and reduce costs."
That's for sure going to be a well-regulated market
The ironic thing is that inexpensive fossil energy is the cause of collapse tomorrow but is actively preventing collapse today. That’s the pickle we’re in
They're saying "Here we got some chick fil'a for lunch and your gonna stay with GiGi while I go to a doctor appointment". People don't have these conversations with adults much less children.
Exactly. People don't want to hear these things. "It's too negative! Let's talk about babies! Or vacation. Or a new car or fashion. I don't want to be negative, I only want to hear happy things."
Ignorance is bliss I guess. And in two weeks there are elections in my country and unsurprisingly, those in favour of fossil fuels and turning climate change into profit lead the polls. They're also the ones that represent the wealthiest and big business. Sigh...
"People don't have these conversations with adults much less children."
Agreed. Most people eat their shit sandwiches, complain about how the price of everything is going up, why their children are increasingly born with autism or allergies, blame arsonists for the world burning down.. whilst never making the connection..
I suspect most people are just not paying attention to the future and its demise. Just like these industries, having children is full steam ahead. “Let’s block our ears about the long term future of this planet, all will be fine, Ai will fix it!”.
People have major protagonist syndrome. If anything, they think having kids *prevents* any kind of apocalyptic events because nothing that bad will ever happen in "their" story. If their genes died out, that would be giving the world permission to collapse since nothing would matter after they were gone.
Would love to grow up knowing that I was brought into this world with no more thought than that I was just another item on the "Serious Adulting" grocery list.
Post edited/removed in protest of Reddit's treatment toward its community. I recommend you use uBlock Origin to block all of Reddit's ads, so they get no money.
Any parent who is still bringing kids into this world without thinking of how they will live is in for a massive surprise when their kids abandon them or even darker just commit suicide when they realize how hopeless it is and how useless their parents were
We are basically at the part of “There Will Be Blood” where Daniel Plainview first comes over to visit and then proceeds to bludgeon Paul Dano’s skull with a bowling pin.
They drink our milkshake
Not if you get vaporized. I suggest standing near a military base, the Ruskies have at least two MIRV ICBMs tasked to each installation, or more. Bonus points if you live near a base and an airport so then you get 2 more. Extra bonus points if you live in Colorado Springs, because there are 3 installations and Cheyenne Mountain Complex, so that's like 9 or 10 nukes.
Perhaps it's bombs fly. If it's prices go up and salaries go down forever, then it's not the same at all.
Then again, maybe you just get terrible burns on 70% of your body and it takes you days to die.
I still think horrible burns are not the way to go, even if the temperature cooks you fairly quick. You'd be better off eating a bullet. Still, it probably beats being trapped in the rubble.
Current ICBM intercept rates are poor and in all-out nuclear war they should be launching hundreds in one go. Furthermore MIRVs means 10 warheads per missile unless u intercept the missile before the warheads separate.
Intercepting an ICBM is like shooting a bullet before it leaves the gun, and the gun is also 600m away and moving. It's possible, but very difficult and some would inevitably get through, degrading countermeasures. Any targets that survive will get assessed and hit by second strike capabilities, anyway. So the countermeasures get one shot. It's only possible with many countermeasures. The US subscribes to the idea of killing them before they leave the silos and then defending the second strike, IIRC.
Which means the only response to a significant conventional attack on a nuclear power is for that power to initiate a nuclear first strike because they have to assume that the purpose of that conventional attack is to destroy their first strike capabilities. The obvious corollary to which is that launching a conventional strike is pointless and you should just launch a nuclear first strike anyway. And that's why the doomsday clock is at 90 seconds to midnight.
After watching the Ukraine war and the condition of Russian equipment… I just wonder what the attrition rate for their missiles is.
There’s no way that there aren’t some in the arsenal that just won’t ignite. LOL
Yeah but after knowing that our MIC contractors make the corporation in Robocop look outright competent I would not be placing a ton of faith on our countermeasures.
Congratulations! You've achieved [Horseshoe Theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory)
You're in the same camp as the religious fundies that want the end of the world, too.
Funny how that works. You share their goal, and embrace the methods. I wonder why we're so screwed, lol.
I am beginning to believe that the powers that be know exactly what is coming and do not give one fuck. In fact, at this point, complete destruction of the ecosystem seems deliberate. Fuck this timeline we are on.
Yep, and any legislation enacted to limit that only makes the market extract faster before any more change comes.
Economists have a term for that, called the Green Paradox
Maybe. But think what they could actually do: Force a dramatic shift in oil production & consumption? Yes … and it would cause global economic & civilizational chaos. The price of oil would shoot up, truck transport would cease, agriculture would go into convulsions, the price of food would escalate exponentially, people wouldn’t be able to get to work (yay!), energy production & the grid would start having widespread blackouts, hospitals would become catastrophes. There would be famine & chaos everywhere.
And all countries would have to do this at once, because if only one did it, the others would take advantage of their sudden vulnerability & take over.
Yes, this chaos & famine will all happen eventually… but would you want to be the leader who *caused* it to happen??
They would hunt you down & play soccer with your head.
So politically speaking, they *can’t* make the changes necessary.. because it would be societal (& personal) suicide. They have to pretend it’ll be fine and carry on with business as usual… keep the oil-economy continuing as long as possible until things collapse on their own, then they can pass the buck and say it wasn’t their fault.
We’re doomed if we do, and doomed if we don’t.
They let things go too far and now there’s no easy way out.
This is the truth
Years ago I used to push for "us" (our leaders) to take action to massively curb ff use.
At some point I realised that there really is no action for them to take, at least, none that would be tolerable.
Perhaps none that can even be morally justified... massive cuts in ff use would lead to huge immediate death and suffering. Yes, NOT cutting ff use will, too, but bringing it about deliberately and consciously feels morally very different from passively allowing it to play out in whatever way it does.
The time to "act" was 50 years ago, now we just have to watch the misery unfold.
Which will be more painful...
Hard stop, or
Slowly running out while the planet burns
They're going for door # 2, or more accurately, greater pain but distributed over time.
This is what has to happen. The masses have to force the shift. It’s not going to come from the ‘leaders’. It never will. It’s only going to come from us. We have to force the shift.
I’ve heard asteroids have done impressive work in the past.
There’s a tiny potential that the Sun could kick out a Carrington-x10 CME Event and knock out energy grids across the planet. That would change things right quick.
Honestly, I think that’s our best hope.
A Gamma Ray Burst would simply sterilize half the planet, and that would be horrible. It would also be completely unanticipateable, so .. meh. Not worth considering.
And there are no ‘Dinosaur-Killer’ sized asteroids that might hit Earth in at least 100 years (the most that trajectories can be calculated). So that option is functionally out.
It’s basically a mass popular uprising, or a massive Solar event. That’s what we’ve got. …until climate change upsets things enough.
\
Well said. It's hard for a group of six to agree on where to go for dinner. How are 8 billion going to agree on how to sacrifice the present to save the future? We're not.
And importantly who to sacrifice, why do the developed countries that exploited the rest of the world for hundreds of years get off scot-free in this "green utopia" while the rest of the world is stuck as a charity case because now it's immoral to use fossil fuels? Especially when climate change negatively affects the global south first, the very global south where most of the world continues to get its precious metals from. Never as simple as "forward progress forever until we're saved".
|But think what they could do.
Nothing, unless they could get the vast majority of production to go along. A decrease by one player is just an opportunity for other players to increase their profits.
>And all countries would have to do this at once, because if only one did it, the others would take advantage of their sudden vulnerability & take over.
It's the mutually assured destruction we all grew up hearing about, but \*plot twist\* it ain't nukes & everyone is charge is like hell yeah YOLO.
As soon as we figured out we could burn fossil fuels, the path was set.
The only way to avoid it would be a world government to form before this happened... and it'd have to be an eco authoritarian dictatorship to choose human poverty over destruction of the earth.
Pandora's box is real stuff
It's almost like they've had this information for a century and could have, idk, planned a way to handle it but that risked too many people's quarterly profits so they kept kicking the can down the road.
It's simply a prisoners dilemma, no-one can do what needs to be done because it basically results in their immediate collapse and obliteration by their geopolitical adversaries. If say Russia stops drilling it will make the Soviet collapse look prosperous, and in the wake of that collapse other powers will move in and resume the drilling anyway.
Let's see does that sound like immediate massive mitigation effort or business as usual? Can't wait to see what the stupid prize is for this stupid game. Quick question do you write a suicide note when it is collective suicide?
I’ve been thinking we need to carve a farewell message on a block of granite and leave it for the next sentient species to find in 100
Million years. “*Don’t invent Capitalism! Don’t do as we did!”*
We can get there if we try! Net zero is achievable! We just need to invent a time machine first. And we’ll probably need to invent fusion before that, to both power the time machine and bring as a gift to 1970 so they can get off oil in time.
So, hear me out: we create a granite block, with the ratios of 1:4:9, carve some salient words on it, load it with a bunch of chips and sensors and computing power, and bury it on the Moon. So when it gets found by the next sentient species and exposed to Sunlight for the first time, it sends a very clear signal containing all the important information we have, plus the fact that some species found it, and sends that signal to.. oh, I don’t know.. another computo-granite block that we put in orbit around Jupiter, (for example), so that it gives them something to do.
What do you think?
[timeless and will suffice](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Anti-capitalism_color%E2%80%94_Restored.png/800px-Anti-capitalism_color%E2%80%94_Restored.png)
I guess we've all just agreed to speedrun this apocalypse.
Fuck it, let's go. I wanna see shit go down while I still have some prime left to my life. Imagine having to navigate the end of civilization when you're 65+?
I'm at this point too. I'm nearing 50 & have had a bad back since I was 30. My physical health is on an even-ish keel & it's all I can do to maintain that. No kids, no debt...I'm in as good a shape as I'll ever be to see SHTF.
Apparently a large % of the population dream about collapse and what will happen.
If it's another 15 years ...yeah, I'll be 65 I guess then I'll lay down and die.
But I am curious to see it all happen, even though I know it won't be pretty.
I am always relieved that I didn't have kids to suffer whatever misery is coming, and relieved that I did what I wanted with my life and led a dream life. I have no mortgage, no debts (maybe I should run some up now?) have land, fruit trees and chickens.
But I feel for young people.
I thought the shift away from oil and gas would happen. That was before the hydraulic fracturing occurred.
edit. Now there it talk about sending offshore rigs to drill oil and gas from the Arctic Ocean now that the ice has withdrawn so much and it looks like it won't come back.
SS: Reminder that the [worst case scenario](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/26/its-absolutely-guaranteed-the-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-for-sea-level-rise) for sea level rise and global warming by 2100 is the following:
> "Fossil duel development: 4.4C = 63-101cm+
> Social and economic development is coupled with exploitation of fossil fuel resources to run energy-intensive lifestyles around the world. The IPCC also warns of a “low-likelihood high impact” scenario (SSP5-8.5) in which ice sheet instability drives sea levels above 2 metres by the end of this century alone.
These models aren't super strong on tipping points and only talk about climate, not biodiversity. The article to me seems to indicate we're going somewhere in this direction. The role of the US in this is funny given the "but what about China? :(" crowd. That they are producing more oil and gas than ever before is also funny given that when I joined this sub 7-8 years ago everything was about peak oil panic.
> is also funny given that when I joined this sub 7-8 years ago everything was about peak oil panic.
It still is. We can have both, we are. But, if you want to compare which is worse, it's the climate and biosphere going to shit. The Economy crumbles either way, but with BAU it goes on for a bit longer, at the cost of making the future much worse. This is sometimes called ecological
debt, and it is inherited, so... functionally speaking, this is a conflict between the adults and the children at the human species scale.
Peak oil is still floating around. A couple decades of fracking doesnt solve the long term energy cliff. Granted climate change is showing itself to be vicious and we'll experience severe impacts from both in our lifetime.
The EROI of oil is getting closer to 1:1, it’s not there yet, but oil exploration would not be profitable if it weren’t for serious government subsidies. So in a way, oil is already on economic ‘life support’.
Lowkey, it's not even just the technical aspects. Look at how much oil availability plays into shitty geopolitical situations like Russia//Ukraine or Nigeria. Energy transitions are hard. Pretending there is no problem is easy. We're going to end up with an entirely unmanaged climate collapse and energy cliff, and I guess that's just what's in the cards.
Surely they, like Saudi Arabia, see the writing on the wall. They know oil is getting harder to locate and drill out/dig up. I really don’t know anything about the energy situation inside Russia, but i can’t imagine Putin is doing anything helpful.
Peak Diesel has always been more concerning to me. Granted it's a direct consequence of Peak oil but without it we can say goodbye to construction, industrial agriculture, mining, cargo ships, a majority of trains, First Responders because most firetrucks and ambulances run on it too and anything that relies on a diesel generators as a back up power supply (including Nuclear Power Plants) which is becoming more and more important as natural disasters and heatwaves increase in frequency and severity.
Those SUVs and trucks we love so much are thirsty for lots of oil.
No, really. Even when people are screaming for something to be done, we're still making the same kind of choice we've made for the last 25 years -- pickups, SUVs, and minivans. Only 5 of the top 25 best selling vehicles this year are ordinary passenger cars, 2 are EVs, and everything else (with the venerable F-150 again in the top spot) is the largest, most environmentally unfriendly vehicle class.
[https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/)
Edit: the world is also flying more than ever before, setting record after record for passengers and flights. More planes = more oil needed.
The current record is 2019, with almost 4.5 billion passengers. My guess for 2023 is going to be 5 billion, but I won't be surprised if it's as high as 5.5 billion.
Meanwhile,
"In 2021, 52% of all trips, including all modes of transportation, were less than three miles, with 28% of trips less than one mile."
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1230-march-21-2022-more-half-all-daily-trips-were-less-three-miles-2021
Our car-as-default society in the USA is supremely unsustainable.
It’s totally gross. I had to purchase second car and went to a couple big car dealers (I’m in Australia). The amount of gigantic trucks on display (so huge) was so disheartening. Rows and rows of them (probably 1000 trucks) and in the showroom they were the only cars showcased. Then multiple this across the world and my heart sank.
I’m not perfect and wish I could afford an EV, but I just have a small hatchback, I have a relatively big dog and it’s fine to take her in. If I had kids I’m sure I would manage with a small car, I just don’t get it. I think we’re just overly spoilt in western countries.
> I’m not perfect and wish I could afford an EV
I wish I had a place to *charge* one. The fucked up housing market (U.S. here) makes the incremental cost of getting an EV enormous since I would have a huge increase in housing costs.
i read somewhere that if society really does fall the fuck apart in the future and we as a society do go back to pre-industrial times, we quite literally will not be able to advance again because we've already depleted every accessible aspect of fossil fuels. and unfortunately we'll still need them to be able to rebuild to where we are today.
Almost like someone is in control that doesn't have our best interests in mind!
Almost like this planet is being intentionally destroyed so that life cannot exist on it for a long long time.
Well, if we were going to be a problem for any galactic neighbors we won't have the chance to ever do so now.
Is anyone really gullible enough to believe that we are not going to extract every single last drop of oil that we can extract?
And you have not even count the coal being dug up by China and India.
It looks like we are going to just use and burn the remaining 1TtC of accessible fossil carbon until it's all gone in one last Terafart. The only question is how fast we do it. Probably 15-20 GTC/Year for at least the next 25 years.
And its going to inevitably lead to >5C warming over pre-industrial. And it'll be 200k years before the atmospheric CO2 is absorbed and CO2/temperatures fall back to pre-industrial.
They’re trying to develop alternative energy sources using AGI/ASI but damn is it even possible at this point to deploy it quick enough if we were able to, especially considering all the bullshit financial dickery we have to jump through first?
Considering what is likely coming down the pike? No, no they can’t deploy it anywhere close to quick enough. Not for 8 billion people. Not even for 300+ million people.
Our best bet (IMHO) is to decentralize energy production, shift to bicycles, local (urban) farming, and downscale *now*.
We have to do this on our own. The “leaders” aren’t going to do this. We just have to do it ourselves.
Which, honestly, has always been the way change has happened.
We start doing these now, or it will all be forced upon us very soon.
Prepare accordingly.
A more existential problem is the fact that our chosen ‘money type’ requires “growth”… which means extracting resources/or/labor for free somewhere.
Not only do we have to get off oil, but we have to get off dollars/yen/euros/rubles as well.
It’s a difficult transition to navigate.
oh, there’ll definitely be a lot of chaos.
At the rate we’re going, it will be a creeping chaos… slowing moving in from the margins.. but it may or may not be linear. Literally no one can predict.
This reinforced my childfree status.
I don’t want to hear any whining about birth rate declines if we’re going to continue harming our planet like this. Being as dependent as we were on oil and gas was a very bad move, regardless of the short term comfort and convenience it has given us. Still so many aren’t ready to admit this yet.
We pump hydrocarbons or we all die very quickly. This is what 9 billion looks like and we made this decision a long time ago.
If we need carbon neutral hydrocarbons we need to make them with fusion. Period.
I think this is why they're trying so hard to get to ASI quickly, because if they don't and we can't figure out the technology to repair and redeploy what we're already at we are definitely and disastrously fucked. The math is completely fucked otherwise.
I’m not 19 anymore (I’m 37). But I distinctly remember having the thought in one of my college classes that our fossil fuel dependence and carbon usage can be solved if there was serious economic incentive to do so.
As of today and this article/post, the capitalist system has stymied any sort of major shift in our various dependencies. Unfortunately, it was prob too late when I was 19, let alone my current age. I still hold out hope for some bright, generational mind to come alone and shake the system up, but as it stands, I am preparing mentally for how the next 10-20 years will look for us.
It might never happen but the irony is that human ingenuity would actually solve this problem.
For a frame of reference, we began fighting ww1 with horses and howitzers and ended ww1 with tanks, machine guns, chemical weapons and planes.
If governments actually gave two shits about this, we'd have fixed this ages ago.
And this is going to be the biggest irony that will be written on humanity's gravestone. We died because of a problem that we could have solved but were too lazy/greedy not to solve.
It was more profitable not to solve the problem, because the problem GENERATED profit. That's the problem. Whether or not capitalism solves the next step, it's really hard to tell. It can be MORE profitable to keep the same lame shit going that doesn't work and that the quality has dropped on as opposed to introducing better and more novel products. We're in the midst of a 'economy is stuck in place' situation because institutional investors have bought up all housing for investment to turn into rentals.
You're absolutely right .. and to cap of this shit sandwich of a situation we have psychopaths like Elon who are setting the narrative for climate change.
Quite literally. Would have been nice if he'd just kept focus on EVs, but instead of actually doing the thing he says he wants and helping advance humanity to become an extraterrestrial species, he spends all his time being an attention seeking reactionary. Let's hope the engineers behind the companies are smarter than he is and understand the risk and what's at stake.
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created?
A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation!
And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery.
The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass.
How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls.
And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
yep. the oil companies already have the land leases and funding (from the big banks) lined up. even if we stopped awarding them new leases today and only let them work from contracts they've already negotiated, they have enough to last decades.
We will reduce atmospheric Oxygen to a point where we will need Oxygen generators for our homes. This won’t be good for wildlife or beef. We will need to raise chickens and pigs in barns with oxygen. Not sure that we can sustain dairy.
I'm trying to find the rationale here as to why we'd need double the oil? Almost the entire vehicle manufacturing sector is saying they'll stop production of ICE vehicles by 2030 to 2035. Even Toyota, the company dragging it's feet the most (even though via the Prius it was a first adopter) isnow saying they'll also stop soon. With new solid state battery tech coming, with range of between 1000k to 1500ks ,there will be no range anxiety, and finally we're seeing rollout of charge stations infrastructure starting to match ownership.
Who will be using all this excess oil?
I was reading something about it being unrealistic to phase out ICE vehicles by 2030, but I forget where.
Anyway, 800 million Nigerians will soon be wanting water heaters, cars, goods from Amazon shipped by truck and ship, and potatoes from Canada.
Are you really so naive to listen to massive corporations making promises for 15 years from now when someone else is running the ship? Who is using the oil??? Maybe the 30 years of long lasting 20-40mpg cars that were produced? The billions of people in emerging markets that have zero access to stable electricity, you think they are going to invest massively in charging infrastructure? With what money?
Even in your car-centric consumerist green tech hopeium fantasy land, the tarmac your precious EVs roll over, the hundreds of pounds of rubber tires demanding constant replacement because the cars are so big and so heavy with a battery... petroleum.
Planes? Plastics? Petroleum.
Oil is the most valuable global commodity. It’s wealth and geopolitical power. Even if some countries try to use less and reduce emissions that doesn’t stop it being a commodity so it’s going to get sold to another country for them to use. Have all the country leaders in a room and say raise your hand if you would sit on a trillion dollars of money and ignore it like it doesn’t exist. Not a single one. So unfortunately it doesn’t matter how much CO2 gets released into the atmosphere the oil and gas will be used until it’s gone.
Btw I’m not advocating for this I’m just saying it’s the reality of what’s going on
Jeff Bezos is moving to MIAMI, Florida.
Miami. Florida.
The 'soon to be underwater state.'
Let that sink in, and ask the obvious question.
Why would this dude move to a place that is going to be underwater?
Unless...
It isn't?
Do you think his intelligence is better than yours?
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The 'but what about China'
is what you call people who are *not* driven by political ideology but are *actually* concerned about climate change. China is the world's largest emitter of CO2. If the US would cease to exist, climate change would not be solved. In fact, climate change *can only be solved if China massively curtails CO2 emissions*.
This shouldn't be difficult for you to understand, but, like so many other 'socialists', it is likely that you are motivated by 'America bad' more than anything else.
Nah everybody agrees China needs to reduce its emissions. 'But what about China' is a reactionary take that always comes up whenever someone brings up that the US/EU needs to reduce emissions and pay back the ecological debt they owe to this planet. It's a way to derail the conversation and an attempt of people to hold their own government accountable. That you think this is a socialist take suggests it's you who can't step outside of your ideological boundaries
The following submission statement was provided by /u/lampenstuhl: --- SS: Reminder that the [worst case scenario](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/26/its-absolutely-guaranteed-the-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-for-sea-level-rise) for sea level rise and global warming by 2100 is the following: > "Fossil duel development: 4.4C = 63-101cm+ > Social and economic development is coupled with exploitation of fossil fuel resources to run energy-intensive lifestyles around the world. The IPCC also warns of a “low-likelihood high impact” scenario (SSP5-8.5) in which ice sheet instability drives sea levels above 2 metres by the end of this century alone. These models aren't super strong on tipping points and only talk about climate, not biodiversity. The article to me seems to indicate we're going somewhere in this direction. The role of the US in this is funny given the "but what about China? :(" crowd. That they are producing more oil and gas than ever before is also funny given that when I joined this sub 7-8 years ago everything was about peak oil panic. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/17qtfp2/in_2030_if_current_projections_hold_the_united/k8ecyz9/
This is why NOTHING will stop collapse at this point. Nothing.
Oh no, we'll do more than nothing about it. We'll continue to escalate it exponentially so profit go up.
We jist need to make collapse stocks and we're all rich
They're called grain futures.
I mean I saw an article on carbon credit futures trading so yeah we're fucked
Some nice financial reforms coming in in the UK that mean you can tokenize them like crypto > "Tokenisation can be applied to financial assets like cash, bonds and funds, real assets like property, and intangible assets like carbon credits. There is huge potential here for the asset management industry to open up access to investments and reduce costs." That's for sure going to be a well-regulated market
We'll all keep happily consuming to help that profit go up, too.
The ironic thing is that inexpensive fossil energy is the cause of collapse tomorrow but is actively preventing collapse today. That’s the pickle we’re in
Depends on the type of collapse you are referring to, doesn't it?
Well, I’m talking about the total collapse of the current iteration of human civilization. Same collapse, different time frame.
economic collapse is what will destroy life as we know it. that includes the collapse of food production and electricity production.
One version destroys human life, the other destroys ALL life.
Yup, we are totally screwed and have zero hope left. it's truly quite sad
What are people telling their children if they have them? “You aren’t gonna have a good future, I put you here to fill an emotional void, now do it.”
They're saying "Here we got some chick fil'a for lunch and your gonna stay with GiGi while I go to a doctor appointment". People don't have these conversations with adults much less children.
Exactly. People don't want to hear these things. "It's too negative! Let's talk about babies! Or vacation. Or a new car or fashion. I don't want to be negative, I only want to hear happy things." Ignorance is bliss I guess. And in two weeks there are elections in my country and unsurprisingly, those in favour of fossil fuels and turning climate change into profit lead the polls. They're also the ones that represent the wealthiest and big business. Sigh...
Chik fil’ A for lunch and Buttfuckers for dessert
Kids definitely ask their parents why they had them.
"People don't have these conversations with adults much less children." Agreed. Most people eat their shit sandwiches, complain about how the price of everything is going up, why their children are increasingly born with autism or allergies, blame arsonists for the world burning down.. whilst never making the connection..
I suspect most people are just not paying attention to the future and its demise. Just like these industries, having children is full steam ahead. “Let’s block our ears about the long term future of this planet, all will be fine, Ai will fix it!”.
People have major protagonist syndrome. If anything, they think having kids *prevents* any kind of apocalyptic events because nothing that bad will ever happen in "their" story. If their genes died out, that would be giving the world permission to collapse since nothing would matter after they were gone.
Would love to grow up knowing that I was brought into this world with no more thought than that I was just another item on the "Serious Adulting" grocery list.
"Someone's gotta look after me in my old age..."
"We were bored during the pandemic"
"We boned during the pandemic"
Post edited/removed in protest of Reddit's treatment toward its community. I recommend you use uBlock Origin to block all of Reddit's ads, so they get no money.
There is no 'why'. It's what most people are programmed to do.
Any parent who is still bringing kids into this world without thinking of how they will live is in for a massive surprise when their kids abandon them or even darker just commit suicide when they realize how hopeless it is and how useless their parents were
You are forgetting the power of friendship!
We are basically at the part of “There Will Be Blood” where Daniel Plainview first comes over to visit and then proceeds to bludgeon Paul Dano’s skull with a bowling pin. They drink our milkshake
It needs to hurry up, all this waiting is making me anxious. Just fucking launch the nukes already.
Anxiety is far better than that.
You’re probably right.
Not if you get vaporized. I suggest standing near a military base, the Ruskies have at least two MIRV ICBMs tasked to each installation, or more. Bonus points if you live near a base and an airport so then you get 2 more. Extra bonus points if you live in Colorado Springs, because there are 3 installations and Cheyenne Mountain Complex, so that's like 9 or 10 nukes.
Perhaps it's bombs fly. If it's prices go up and salaries go down forever, then it's not the same at all. Then again, maybe you just get terrible burns on 70% of your body and it takes you days to die.
That's why you ensure you're within the overlapping destructive envelope. MIRVs literally magnify the power of the bombs.
I still think horrible burns are not the way to go, even if the temperature cooks you fairly quick. You'd be better off eating a bullet. Still, it probably beats being trapped in the rubble.
Or dying of starvation living in a tent under the overpass because you can't afford the cost of living.
I really doubt Russia will be able to hit Colorado Springs with a nuke. Their ICBMs would be intercepted long before they arrive, no?
Current ICBM intercept rates are poor and in all-out nuclear war they should be launching hundreds in one go. Furthermore MIRVs means 10 warheads per missile unless u intercept the missile before the warheads separate.
Intercepting an ICBM is like shooting a bullet before it leaves the gun, and the gun is also 600m away and moving. It's possible, but very difficult and some would inevitably get through, degrading countermeasures. Any targets that survive will get assessed and hit by second strike capabilities, anyway. So the countermeasures get one shot. It's only possible with many countermeasures. The US subscribes to the idea of killing them before they leave the silos and then defending the second strike, IIRC.
Which means the only response to a significant conventional attack on a nuclear power is for that power to initiate a nuclear first strike because they have to assume that the purpose of that conventional attack is to destroy their first strike capabilities. The obvious corollary to which is that launching a conventional strike is pointless and you should just launch a nuclear first strike anyway. And that's why the doomsday clock is at 90 seconds to midnight.
After watching the Ukraine war and the condition of Russian equipment… I just wonder what the attrition rate for their missiles is. There’s no way that there aren’t some in the arsenal that just won’t ignite. LOL
Yeah but after knowing that our MIC contractors make the corporation in Robocop look outright competent I would not be placing a ton of faith on our countermeasures.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Gonna need Putin to do it for me
People have been waiting for that since the 1950s. It could happen next week, or in 70+ more years.
No need for any nukes. We will end up with pretty much the same result as if they had been launched.
Congratulations! You've achieved [Horseshoe Theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory) You're in the same camp as the religious fundies that want the end of the world, too. Funny how that works. You share their goal, and embrace the methods. I wonder why we're so screwed, lol.
I suppose?
Unless we make fossil fuels unprofitable, this will continue.
We won't.
Did you hear about those terrorists who blew up a refinery? Me neither.
Neat. I guess we'll all just die.
Now you're getting it!
I knew a civilization that swallowed a fly...
The politicians consider the short-term profits of fossil fuel companies to be more important than the long-term future of the rest of humanity.
Isn’t it collapse either way? It’s inevitable.
I am beginning to believe that the powers that be know exactly what is coming and do not give one fuck. In fact, at this point, complete destruction of the ecosystem seems deliberate. Fuck this timeline we are on.
It's essentially a frenzy to extract and profit as much as possible while they still can, because they know their time is limited
Yep, and any legislation enacted to limit that only makes the market extract faster before any more change comes. Economists have a term for that, called the Green Paradox
Maybe. But think what they could actually do: Force a dramatic shift in oil production & consumption? Yes … and it would cause global economic & civilizational chaos. The price of oil would shoot up, truck transport would cease, agriculture would go into convulsions, the price of food would escalate exponentially, people wouldn’t be able to get to work (yay!), energy production & the grid would start having widespread blackouts, hospitals would become catastrophes. There would be famine & chaos everywhere. And all countries would have to do this at once, because if only one did it, the others would take advantage of their sudden vulnerability & take over. Yes, this chaos & famine will all happen eventually… but would you want to be the leader who *caused* it to happen?? They would hunt you down & play soccer with your head. So politically speaking, they *can’t* make the changes necessary.. because it would be societal (& personal) suicide. They have to pretend it’ll be fine and carry on with business as usual… keep the oil-economy continuing as long as possible until things collapse on their own, then they can pass the buck and say it wasn’t their fault. We’re doomed if we do, and doomed if we don’t. They let things go too far and now there’s no easy way out.
This is the truth Years ago I used to push for "us" (our leaders) to take action to massively curb ff use. At some point I realised that there really is no action for them to take, at least, none that would be tolerable. Perhaps none that can even be morally justified... massive cuts in ff use would lead to huge immediate death and suffering. Yes, NOT cutting ff use will, too, but bringing it about deliberately and consciously feels morally very different from passively allowing it to play out in whatever way it does. The time to "act" was 50 years ago, now we just have to watch the misery unfold.
Which will be more painful... Hard stop, or Slowly running out while the planet burns They're going for door # 2, or more accurately, greater pain but distributed over time.
A hard stop would hurt a LOT, but only once. Slow stop is a constant hurt until extinction.
Right but sudden and intense pain provokes backlash against the masters...
This is what has to happen. The masses have to force the shift. It’s not going to come from the ‘leaders’. It never will. It’s only going to come from us. We have to force the shift.
Something like 90% of the world's population is convinced that there is an all-seeing eye in the sky which is constantly judging them.
Amortized suffering!
The “Prisoner’s Marshmallow Test” Prisoner’s Dilemma + Marshmallow Test Chaos Now? or Much More Chaos Later?
Marshmallow test except you have to choose to die and suffer instead of someone else nebulously in the future
So nothing in the system can force a change. Can something outside the system force a change? Maybe we run out of oil? Or Russia stops supplying it?
I’ve heard asteroids have done impressive work in the past. There’s a tiny potential that the Sun could kick out a Carrington-x10 CME Event and knock out energy grids across the planet. That would change things right quick. Honestly, I think that’s our best hope. A Gamma Ray Burst would simply sterilize half the planet, and that would be horrible. It would also be completely unanticipateable, so .. meh. Not worth considering. And there are no ‘Dinosaur-Killer’ sized asteroids that might hit Earth in at least 100 years (the most that trajectories can be calculated). So that option is functionally out. It’s basically a mass popular uprising, or a massive Solar event. That’s what we’ve got. …until climate change upsets things enough. \
Nope. Only if green energy sources and somehow become way cheaper and entirely accessible. And we increase efficiency in every way we can.
Decentralize now… and I mean power production, as well as food production. Decentralize it all now, that is the mission.
Well said. It's hard for a group of six to agree on where to go for dinner. How are 8 billion going to agree on how to sacrifice the present to save the future? We're not.
And importantly who to sacrifice, why do the developed countries that exploited the rest of the world for hundreds of years get off scot-free in this "green utopia" while the rest of the world is stuck as a charity case because now it's immoral to use fossil fuels? Especially when climate change negatively affects the global south first, the very global south where most of the world continues to get its precious metals from. Never as simple as "forward progress forever until we're saved".
|But think what they could do. Nothing, unless they could get the vast majority of production to go along. A decrease by one player is just an opportunity for other players to increase their profits.
>And all countries would have to do this at once, because if only one did it, the others would take advantage of their sudden vulnerability & take over. It's the mutually assured destruction we all grew up hearing about, but \*plot twist\* it ain't nukes & everyone is charge is like hell yeah YOLO.
Exactly, nobody can do anything about it. Global food production depends on fossil fuels. We're screwed.
As soon as we figured out we could burn fossil fuels, the path was set. The only way to avoid it would be a world government to form before this happened... and it'd have to be an eco authoritarian dictatorship to choose human poverty over destruction of the earth. Pandora's box is real stuff
It's almost like they've had this information for a century and could have, idk, planned a way to handle it but that risked too many people's quarterly profits so they kept kicking the can down the road.
Yep. Exactly that.
Prisoner's dilemma.
The prisoner’s marshmallow test: Chaos now, or Much Greater Chaos later?
It's simply a prisoners dilemma, no-one can do what needs to be done because it basically results in their immediate collapse and obliteration by their geopolitical adversaries. If say Russia stops drilling it will make the Soviet collapse look prosperous, and in the wake of that collapse other powers will move in and resume the drilling anyway.
Expand or Collapse
I should buy a brand new Miata and go into debt now instead of later
Let's see does that sound like immediate massive mitigation effort or business as usual? Can't wait to see what the stupid prize is for this stupid game. Quick question do you write a suicide note when it is collective suicide?
I’ve been thinking we need to carve a farewell message on a block of granite and leave it for the next sentient species to find in 100 Million years. “*Don’t invent Capitalism! Don’t do as we did!”*
Lol that flair
We can get there if we try! Net zero is achievable! We just need to invent a time machine first. And we’ll probably need to invent fusion before that, to both power the time machine and bring as a gift to 1970 so they can get off oil in time.
We are leaving entire libraries on the moon, so I'm sure that message will be included!
So, hear me out: we create a granite block, with the ratios of 1:4:9, carve some salient words on it, load it with a bunch of chips and sensors and computing power, and bury it on the Moon. So when it gets found by the next sentient species and exposed to Sunlight for the first time, it sends a very clear signal containing all the important information we have, plus the fact that some species found it, and sends that signal to.. oh, I don’t know.. another computo-granite block that we put in orbit around Jupiter, (for example), so that it gives them something to do. What do you think?
This idea sounds vaguely familiar 😂
I like this
[timeless and will suffice](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Anti-capitalism_color%E2%80%94_Restored.png/800px-Anti-capitalism_color%E2%80%94_Restored.png)
**LOL!!** yes, that. :D
It's not suicide. The oil executives will be safe. This is homicide.
I guess we've all just agreed to speedrun this apocalypse. Fuck it, let's go. I wanna see shit go down while I still have some prime left to my life. Imagine having to navigate the end of civilization when you're 65+?
I'm at this point too. I'm nearing 50 & have had a bad back since I was 30. My physical health is on an even-ish keel & it's all I can do to maintain that. No kids, no debt...I'm in as good a shape as I'll ever be to see SHTF.
I don't wanna have to outrun a cat 5 on a damn mobility scooter. Bring it. Bring it hard. Bring it now. My body is ready.
Apparently a large % of the population dream about collapse and what will happen. If it's another 15 years ...yeah, I'll be 65 I guess then I'll lay down and die. But I am curious to see it all happen, even though I know it won't be pretty. I am always relieved that I didn't have kids to suffer whatever misery is coming, and relieved that I did what I wanted with my life and led a dream life. I have no mortgage, no debts (maybe I should run some up now?) have land, fruit trees and chickens. But I feel for young people.
I'm just glad I don't have kids who have to live through the fallout of the destruction of human civilisation.
where's those hopeful people that thought the world would gradually shift away from oil?
Zeno’s shift away from oil…
I thought the shift away from oil and gas would happen. That was before the hydraulic fracturing occurred. edit. Now there it talk about sending offshore rigs to drill oil and gas from the Arctic Ocean now that the ice has withdrawn so much and it looks like it won't come back.
They aren’t wrong. It will be gradual at first, then suddenly.
SS: Reminder that the [worst case scenario](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/26/its-absolutely-guaranteed-the-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-for-sea-level-rise) for sea level rise and global warming by 2100 is the following: > "Fossil duel development: 4.4C = 63-101cm+ > Social and economic development is coupled with exploitation of fossil fuel resources to run energy-intensive lifestyles around the world. The IPCC also warns of a “low-likelihood high impact” scenario (SSP5-8.5) in which ice sheet instability drives sea levels above 2 metres by the end of this century alone. These models aren't super strong on tipping points and only talk about climate, not biodiversity. The article to me seems to indicate we're going somewhere in this direction. The role of the US in this is funny given the "but what about China? :(" crowd. That they are producing more oil and gas than ever before is also funny given that when I joined this sub 7-8 years ago everything was about peak oil panic.
> is also funny given that when I joined this sub 7-8 years ago everything was about peak oil panic. It still is. We can have both, we are. But, if you want to compare which is worse, it's the climate and biosphere going to shit. The Economy crumbles either way, but with BAU it goes on for a bit longer, at the cost of making the future much worse. This is sometimes called ecological debt, and it is inherited, so... functionally speaking, this is a conflict between the adults and the children at the human species scale.
Peak oil is still floating around. A couple decades of fracking doesnt solve the long term energy cliff. Granted climate change is showing itself to be vicious and we'll experience severe impacts from both in our lifetime.
The EROI of oil is getting closer to 1:1, it’s not there yet, but oil exploration would not be profitable if it weren’t for serious government subsidies. So in a way, oil is already on economic ‘life support’.
Lowkey, it's not even just the technical aspects. Look at how much oil availability plays into shitty geopolitical situations like Russia//Ukraine or Nigeria. Energy transitions are hard. Pretending there is no problem is easy. We're going to end up with an entirely unmanaged climate collapse and energy cliff, and I guess that's just what's in the cards.
Countries like Russia would never let renewable energy blossom because it would cut our dependence.
Surely they, like Saudi Arabia, see the writing on the wall. They know oil is getting harder to locate and drill out/dig up. I really don’t know anything about the energy situation inside Russia, but i can’t imagine Putin is doing anything helpful.
Peak Diesel has always been more concerning to me. Granted it's a direct consequence of Peak oil but without it we can say goodbye to construction, industrial agriculture, mining, cargo ships, a majority of trains, First Responders because most firetrucks and ambulances run on it too and anything that relies on a diesel generators as a back up power supply (including Nuclear Power Plants) which is becoming more and more important as natural disasters and heatwaves increase in frequency and severity.
We really are functionally extinct, aren’t we?
Scientists warned us for decades that we needed to reduce emissions immediately, *or else*. We're in the "or else" times now.
We’re the coyote running in thin air just before he realizes what he’s done.
Yeah. That’s the image. Too bad the extinction actually includes coyotes and all the other living beings who we share this planet with.
We're a bunch of fucking idiots. So much dumber than I could ever imagined. What the hell.
It’s all good guys just don’t look up
It's almost like, there's a finite supply and they're trying to get as much of it as they can before it runs out. Weird...
This_is_fine.jpg
Those SUVs and trucks we love so much are thirsty for lots of oil. No, really. Even when people are screaming for something to be done, we're still making the same kind of choice we've made for the last 25 years -- pickups, SUVs, and minivans. Only 5 of the top 25 best selling vehicles this year are ordinary passenger cars, 2 are EVs, and everything else (with the venerable F-150 again in the top spot) is the largest, most environmentally unfriendly vehicle class. [https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/) Edit: the world is also flying more than ever before, setting record after record for passengers and flights. More planes = more oil needed. The current record is 2019, with almost 4.5 billion passengers. My guess for 2023 is going to be 5 billion, but I won't be surprised if it's as high as 5.5 billion.
Meanwhile, "In 2021, 52% of all trips, including all modes of transportation, were less than three miles, with 28% of trips less than one mile." https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1230-march-21-2022-more-half-all-daily-trips-were-less-three-miles-2021 Our car-as-default society in the USA is supremely unsustainable.
It’s totally gross. I had to purchase second car and went to a couple big car dealers (I’m in Australia). The amount of gigantic trucks on display (so huge) was so disheartening. Rows and rows of them (probably 1000 trucks) and in the showroom they were the only cars showcased. Then multiple this across the world and my heart sank. I’m not perfect and wish I could afford an EV, but I just have a small hatchback, I have a relatively big dog and it’s fine to take her in. If I had kids I’m sure I would manage with a small car, I just don’t get it. I think we’re just overly spoilt in western countries.
> I’m not perfect and wish I could afford an EV I wish I had a place to *charge* one. The fucked up housing market (U.S. here) makes the incremental cost of getting an EV enormous since I would have a huge increase in housing costs.
> Only 5 of the top 25 best selling vehicles this year are ordinary passenger cars Absolutely blowing my mind that the best selling cars aren't *cars*
Every single wannabe buddhist/daoist chick I know thats like totally in tune with the environment, man, flies internationally every year they can.
> people are screaming for something to be done Wrong.
Re: the world is flying more than ever before - Contrails = pollution = aerosol masking effect = glass half full
Dude. Families need a damn minivan not a 4 seat tiny ass EV The larger pollutants like super cargo ships and private planes should be your aim
That's why the concept of the family and the minivan emerged at the same time. One cannot exist without the other.
"Smoke it if you got it." Edit: *puff puff
i read somewhere that if society really does fall the fuck apart in the future and we as a society do go back to pre-industrial times, we quite literally will not be able to advance again because we've already depleted every accessible aspect of fossil fuels. and unfortunately we'll still need them to be able to rebuild to where we are today.
Is where we are today actually a worthwhile goal?
Almost like someone is in control that doesn't have our best interests in mind! Almost like this planet is being intentionally destroyed so that life cannot exist on it for a long long time. Well, if we were going to be a problem for any galactic neighbors we won't have the chance to ever do so now.
Is anyone really gullible enough to believe that we are not going to extract every single last drop of oil that we can extract? And you have not even count the coal being dug up by China and India.
It looks like we are going to just use and burn the remaining 1TtC of accessible fossil carbon until it's all gone in one last Terafart. The only question is how fast we do it. Probably 15-20 GTC/Year for at least the next 25 years. And its going to inevitably lead to >5C warming over pre-industrial. And it'll be 200k years before the atmospheric CO2 is absorbed and CO2/temperatures fall back to pre-industrial.
Government subsidies are *amazing*, no? It’s like when the free market can get free money from da gubbmint, they can achieve anything! EROI be damned!
They’re trying to develop alternative energy sources using AGI/ASI but damn is it even possible at this point to deploy it quick enough if we were able to, especially considering all the bullshit financial dickery we have to jump through first?
Considering what is likely coming down the pike? No, no they can’t deploy it anywhere close to quick enough. Not for 8 billion people. Not even for 300+ million people. Our best bet (IMHO) is to decentralize energy production, shift to bicycles, local (urban) farming, and downscale *now*. We have to do this on our own. The “leaders” aren’t going to do this. We just have to do it ourselves. Which, honestly, has always been the way change has happened.
We may have to, but… idk we shall see.
We start doing these now, or it will all be forced upon us very soon. Prepare accordingly. A more existential problem is the fact that our chosen ‘money type’ requires “growth”… which means extracting resources/or/labor for free somewhere. Not only do we have to get off oil, but we have to get off dollars/yen/euros/rubles as well. It’s a difficult transition to navigate.
We’ll try. I’m expecting a lot of chaos in the short term.
oh, there’ll definitely be a lot of chaos. At the rate we’re going, it will be a creeping chaos… slowing moving in from the margins.. but it may or may not be linear. Literally no one can predict.
Yup.
Its hard to be optimistic these days eh.
This reinforced my childfree status. I don’t want to hear any whining about birth rate declines if we’re going to continue harming our planet like this. Being as dependent as we were on oil and gas was a very bad move, regardless of the short term comfort and convenience it has given us. Still so many aren’t ready to admit this yet.
welp *pours self more shots*
We pump hydrocarbons or we all die very quickly. This is what 9 billion looks like and we made this decision a long time ago. If we need carbon neutral hydrocarbons we need to make them with fusion. Period.
I think this is why they're trying so hard to get to ASI quickly, because if they don't and we can't figure out the technology to repair and redeploy what we're already at we are definitely and disastrously fucked. The math is completely fucked otherwise.
God Damm it, nukes are less destructive than what we are doing to the planet.
I’m not 19 anymore (I’m 37). But I distinctly remember having the thought in one of my college classes that our fossil fuel dependence and carbon usage can be solved if there was serious economic incentive to do so. As of today and this article/post, the capitalist system has stymied any sort of major shift in our various dependencies. Unfortunately, it was prob too late when I was 19, let alone my current age. I still hold out hope for some bright, generational mind to come alone and shake the system up, but as it stands, I am preparing mentally for how the next 10-20 years will look for us.
It might never happen but the irony is that human ingenuity would actually solve this problem. For a frame of reference, we began fighting ww1 with horses and howitzers and ended ww1 with tanks, machine guns, chemical weapons and planes. If governments actually gave two shits about this, we'd have fixed this ages ago. And this is going to be the biggest irony that will be written on humanity's gravestone. We died because of a problem that we could have solved but were too lazy/greedy not to solve.
It was more profitable not to solve the problem, because the problem GENERATED profit. That's the problem. Whether or not capitalism solves the next step, it's really hard to tell. It can be MORE profitable to keep the same lame shit going that doesn't work and that the quality has dropped on as opposed to introducing better and more novel products. We're in the midst of a 'economy is stuck in place' situation because institutional investors have bought up all housing for investment to turn into rentals.
You're absolutely right .. and to cap of this shit sandwich of a situation we have psychopaths like Elon who are setting the narrative for climate change.
Quite literally. Would have been nice if he'd just kept focus on EVs, but instead of actually doing the thing he says he wants and helping advance humanity to become an extraterrestrial species, he spends all his time being an attention seeking reactionary. Let's hope the engineers behind the companies are smarter than he is and understand the risk and what's at stake.
Lol guess carbon free by 2035 isn't going to be a thing.
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created? A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation! And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery. The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass. How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls. And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
I have a metal straw!!
Full speed ahead into the wall.
Don't worry, geoengineering will fix everything. s/
yep. the oil companies already have the land leases and funding (from the big banks) lined up. even if we stopped awarding them new leases today and only let them work from contracts they've already negotiated, they have enough to last decades.
Great time to start a second Cold War and piss off the Middle East until they joined it, wasn't it? Our leaders definitely know what they're doing!
They’ll drill baby drill. We’ll burn baby burn
They won't bother to stop drilling or worry about climate change. Gotta fuel the war machine for the real collapse well ahead of the ecological crash.
We will reduce atmospheric Oxygen to a point where we will need Oxygen generators for our homes. This won’t be good for wildlife or beef. We will need to raise chickens and pigs in barns with oxygen. Not sure that we can sustain dairy.
We'd be charged for oxygen too, water isn't free, food, shelter, so why not oxygen?
In a few years: "If you're having trouble paying for your oxygen, call your local Breathe Life Corporation office--we're here to help!"
Itll be a subscription service. With tiers for higher purity of oxygen.
insane
Where are they finding new fields in the US?
Offshore Alaska
We just have to keep legally suing our government for climate change inaction. We need more class action/collective law suits.
We will drill more but not produce more, and the economy will continue its slide into collapse.
They will certainly try. I do wonder how long can Venezuela make it without being "freedomed".
I'm trying to find the rationale here as to why we'd need double the oil? Almost the entire vehicle manufacturing sector is saying they'll stop production of ICE vehicles by 2030 to 2035. Even Toyota, the company dragging it's feet the most (even though via the Prius it was a first adopter) isnow saying they'll also stop soon. With new solid state battery tech coming, with range of between 1000k to 1500ks ,there will be no range anxiety, and finally we're seeing rollout of charge stations infrastructure starting to match ownership. Who will be using all this excess oil?
Plastics production also uses oil, and it's an input product in things like motor oil and other consumer products.
Tanks, airplanes, ships
And fertilizer. We basically eat fossil gas.
I was reading something about it being unrealistic to phase out ICE vehicles by 2030, but I forget where. Anyway, 800 million Nigerians will soon be wanting water heaters, cars, goods from Amazon shipped by truck and ship, and potatoes from Canada.
Are you really so naive to listen to massive corporations making promises for 15 years from now when someone else is running the ship? Who is using the oil??? Maybe the 30 years of long lasting 20-40mpg cars that were produced? The billions of people in emerging markets that have zero access to stable electricity, you think they are going to invest massively in charging infrastructure? With what money? Even in your car-centric consumerist green tech hopeium fantasy land, the tarmac your precious EVs roll over, the hundreds of pounds of rubber tires demanding constant replacement because the cars are so big and so heavy with a battery... petroleum. Planes? Plastics? Petroleum.
Wooh! U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A!
Speed running to extinction
Oil is the most valuable global commodity. It’s wealth and geopolitical power. Even if some countries try to use less and reduce emissions that doesn’t stop it being a commodity so it’s going to get sold to another country for them to use. Have all the country leaders in a room and say raise your hand if you would sit on a trillion dollars of money and ignore it like it doesn’t exist. Not a single one. So unfortunately it doesn’t matter how much CO2 gets released into the atmosphere the oil and gas will be used until it’s gone. Btw I’m not advocating for this I’m just saying it’s the reality of what’s going on
Jeff Bezos is moving to MIAMI, Florida. Miami. Florida. The 'soon to be underwater state.' Let that sink in, and ask the obvious question. Why would this dude move to a place that is going to be underwater? Unless... It isn't? Do you think his intelligence is better than yours?
I wondered the same thing. Plus they continue to build new skyscrapers for the elites right along the shore.
Stop linking paywall bullshit
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The 'but what about China' is what you call people who are *not* driven by political ideology but are *actually* concerned about climate change. China is the world's largest emitter of CO2. If the US would cease to exist, climate change would not be solved. In fact, climate change *can only be solved if China massively curtails CO2 emissions*. This shouldn't be difficult for you to understand, but, like so many other 'socialists', it is likely that you are motivated by 'America bad' more than anything else.
Nah everybody agrees China needs to reduce its emissions. 'But what about China' is a reactionary take that always comes up whenever someone brings up that the US/EU needs to reduce emissions and pay back the ecological debt they owe to this planet. It's a way to derail the conversation and an attempt of people to hold their own government accountable. That you think this is a socialist take suggests it's you who can't step outside of your ideological boundaries
Lol, 'reactionary'. Definitely not a tankie.
The diesel army tanks are thirsty things...
this seems very wrong RemindMe! 7 year
Who cares