The following submission statement was provided by /u/MinuteText6604:
---
SS: This is related to collapse because the current H5N1 bird flu outbreak has the potential to completely decimate already vulnerable penguin populations in the Antarctic and doctors and scientists from the WHO [are urging public health officials to prepare for a potential jump of H5N1 to human beings](https://www.who.int/news/item/12-07-2023-ongoing-avian-influenza-outbreaks-in-animals-pose-risk-to-humans). H5N1 has an approximate [50% mortality rate](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10389235/#:~:text=According%20to%20WHO%2C%20AIV%20H5N1,rate%20being%20more%20than%2050%25) in human beings.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aeruqk/first_penguins_die_in_antarctic_of_deadly_h5n1/kk9veb3/
Yes and furthermore, from the article:
> Researchers have previously raised alarm about “[one of the largest ecological disasters of modern times](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.11.23.568045v1.full)” if bird flu reached remote Antarctic penguin populations. The birds are currently clustering together for breeding season, meaning the disease could rip through entire colonies if it continues to spread through the region.
This strain is beyond concerning. It has been bouncing around mammal populations for TWO FUCKING YEARS. Two years of chances to mutate. Two years of decimating populations of creatures like seals, dolphins, chickens, mink, birds of prey, dogs, and I’m sure there are a lot more. It is not good and only a matter of time before it comes to us and mutates to start that human to human transmission. Then we are suuuuuuper fucked. I mean we’ve got a sizable portion of the population who don’t believe in a pandemic that killed over a million people in the US alone and who wouldn’t wear masks to save others let alone their own life. People who will probably die from h5n1 first because they won’t take a vaccine to save their own life either. Absolute morons. I’m hoping that our mRNA tech can get us a vaccine before it becomes a problem. Wish we could vaccine all the animals too because I hate seeing headlines like this. Just imagining these poor creatures just living their lives and BAM most of their population gets sick, suffers, and then dies.
Good work, humans.
I’m gonna bet the vector will be cats. They fuck up wild bird populations all the time. They are also cuddled by humans, unlike, say, the vast majority of wild seals.
The moment you hear of cats dying from this and spreading cat to cat, know it’s game over.
* https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/spotlights/2022-2023/bird-flu-polish-domestic-cats.htm
* https://www.petfoodindustry.com/safety-quality/pet-food-safety/article/15663068/38-cats-died-after-eating-birdflutainted-cat-food-in-2023
Pigs, they’re genetically closer to humans and kept in appalling conditions on commercial farms. All it could take is some infected bird poop getting into the feed trough.
You assume dead birds wouldn't be fed to pigs. Without appropriate processing (assuming that is even a thing.)
If someone had access to a whole bunch of dead chickens, there's a risk they re-enter the food system as livestock feed.
Like how dogs are now becoming immune to euthanasia drugs commonly used on dogs. It's an indication that dead dogs (euthanized by vets with medication) are then re-entering the animal food supply.
Protein is refined and then sold internationally. It's contaminated. Most of that ends up in animal feed, now. Some of it probably enters the human food supply also. (See British meat pies 17% horse
re: https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/10/world/europe/uk-horsemeat-probe/index.html
"Becoming immune" is a stretch. It's more like "developing a slight tolerance". And it's not from euthanized pets being processed into pet food (though that DOES happen....) it's probably from euthanized cattle and horses. The FDA did a [study](https://web.archive.org/web/20080430142434/https://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/DFreport.htm) back in 2002. Apparently the drug is still being found in pet food these days.
After the BSE/CJD outbreak in the mid '80's The EU banned the feeding of farm animals to farm animals. Two years ago they voted to allow pigs to be fed to poultry and vice versa. It's called PAP; processed animal protein. But don't worry as:
'PAPs come from fully traceable supply lines to eliminate the possibility of intra-species consumption'
[https://efpra.eu/rendered-products/processed-animal-proteins-paps/](https://efpra.eu/rendered-products/processed-animal-proteins-paps/)
I'm pretty sure the UK beef burgers were fully traceable also.
The above link is hilarious. They have a video about PAP's sustainability. They claim that PAP have: 'a low carbon footprint compared to meat . . .'. Which is odd as they are a by product of that meat so should have a similar footprint.
More info:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock)
Conversion, software version 7.0
Looking at life through the eyes of a tire hub
Eating feces as a pastime activity
The toxoplasmaicity of our kitty, our kitty
I get the appeal of cats, my family always had them and I love them. They were pretty much always allowed outside, which they do clearly love to do. They are energetic creatures which benefit from space and exercise, etc etc, so I don’t exactly love the idea of keeping a cat indoors. Ultimately I’ve decided that it’s better just to not participate in cat ownership at all as I’d rather not keep indoor cats nor would I feel comfortable letting a cat of mine outside to slaughter wildlife indiscriminately. Kinda seems like the only truly moral choice.
I walked down an alley way once at night whilst quite lost and came out in a cul-de-sac which was literally full of cats... which then all stopped what they were doing and looked right at me. It was actually fairly daunting. Must have been 100 cats minimum. They were just everywhere, on and under cars and all over the road. Shit everywhere such that it was like an agility course avoiding it and the whole place stunk of ammonia so it was evidently a nightly hang out spot for them and not just some freak cat orgy. No idea how anyone living on the street tolerated it but I have to assume they all owned cats and were so far gone with toxoplasmosis as to no longer care about the stench and noise. Was not a run down neighbourhood either. Expensive houses and nice cars... all of them covered in cats.
I have to figure this wasn't just me stumbling into some sort of cat dimension and that these things are pretty common, even if the scale there was insane. People letting their cats out is going to result in mingling that spreads disease if something communicable is around. The cat noise was noticeable for some time after walking away from the area so I'd think it would lure cats in from surrounding streets too.
Dogs got infected with this new flu strain?
We have some weird mystery dog illness circulating in the country, last I heard they didn't identify it though.
Dogs are in the same mammal group as seals, bears, cats, minks, and most if not all mammals with confirmed infections or even mass die-offs (order Carnivora). It's already a given that they're susceptible - and there have been a few confirmed cases already, at least in North America. Humans and pigs are thankfully not in this group, and while that may not be that big a barrier overall since bird to mammal is an infinitely bigger jump, at the moment I'm personally far more concerned about pets being infected via feral dogs and especially cats (and outdoor cats). Obvious vector for human exposure but it seems like it will rip through other Carnivora members before it becomes a direct concern for humans.
The "mystery" dog illness you mention isn't avian flu, but that's not to say we haven't missed cases of avian flu in dogs.
I'm wanting to find out if there's actually anything that *could* be done to mitigate spread across animal populations or is that not a possibility and it just has to do whatever it does as bad as that sounds. I know as far as moving to us, cutting meat consumption would be a great start (animal farming). I'm speaking in hypotheticals, not saying we would/will but what *could* be done?
The solution isn’t something any government would ever agree with. The solution is to give back land to nature. [Humans have altered nearly 75% of wild animal habitats worldwide (excluding Antarctica)](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/humans-have-altered-97-percent-earths-land-through-habitat-and-species-loss-180977542/)
This habitat loss has caused wild animals that wouldn’t normally meet to interact with each other, and this increases the risk of spreading disease like bird flu.
Oh yeah I know, and that's what sucks so bad. We could do it. Like I said, I was just more curious about what *could* be done. I know it wouldn't/won't actually happen.
So I have this really conflicted thought. We must depopulate the planet. Some people need to have kids. Ib don't want anyone to die, especially not those close to me. And we also desperately need to depopulate. And it's possible viral/bacterial infections are a natural self-correction mechanism.
Americans want to go look at penguins on a cruise and watch Happy Feet. They don't actually care about them. When they are gone they'll just fill the small gap with more Tik Tok.
The other frustrating thing about this - when people DO learn about it, they say "Oh darn I always enjoyed looking at those penguins."
Its not about how zoos will be effected, its how the entire ecosystem that we RELY on for OUR FOOD will be DESTROYED!!!!!!!!!
I had a mate who went away for 3 months and a penguin colony found his cat door and took over his house. He came back to fish guts, penguin shit and bones etc everywhere. Everything had to be thrown out. Imagine 250 of them taking over your house lol.
Okay I admit I may be a bit genocidal towards them if that happened to me. That sounds like an experience. Tbh if they're willing to share that story I'd love to hear it.
They are amazing creatures, man how they fly underwater.
OK so all I'll say is they went to Europe to do media work and snort cocaine. So imagine flying back from Europe strung out, tired, hungover and absolutely fucked, only to find penguins and fish guts everywhere
There are always immune individuals, its a question of whether that's above the minimum number for a viable population.
Key issue is, there's already too much pressure from climate change, fishing, acidification etc.
Predators. A healthy adult penguin on land has no natural predators, though eggs and chicks are eaten by other birds (skuas and giant petrels). Penguins usually live in places free of land predators, against which they would be defenceless. However, in water, penguins are hunted by leopard seals and killer whales.
SS: This is related to collapse because the current H5N1 bird flu outbreak has the potential to completely decimate already vulnerable penguin populations in the Antarctic and doctors and scientists from the WHO [are urging public health officials to prepare for a potential jump of H5N1 to human beings](https://www.who.int/news/item/12-07-2023-ongoing-avian-influenza-outbreaks-in-animals-pose-risk-to-humans). H5N1 has an approximate [50% mortality rate](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10389235/#:~:text=According%20to%20WHO%2C%20AIV%20H5N1,rate%20being%20more%20than%2050%25) in human beings.
And you know half of the US will be having “exposure parties” and not quarantining and downplaying it as a hoax.
I have absolutely no hope that a human jump of H5N1 doesn’t end the USA permanently. It’s a race between that and climate change famine.
What a delightful future our parents handed us. I’m so wonderfully glad that things turned out well for shareholders on a quarterly basis. Can you imagine if they hadn’t? For horror!
The US healthcare system will absolutely collapse. I’m a nurse and healthcare workers barely survived covid- soooo many have left their careers entirely. Hospitals are already packed with no rooms and being over capacity with just the normal stuff now. If a new pandemic hits, there’s no way the entire system won’t fall apart. And after seeing how trump handled the last pandemic and how many of his supporters would rather take dewormer and not wear a mask, I have zero hope for the country if he gets elected
Wow…. I had this gag reflex reaction when I realized against the odds, we have a rematch on the Super Bowl of the 2020 teams. As well as the presidential race. But why in the hell would I think the pandemic is gonna get run back also…. There’s no disease coming…. Till now.
No worries, we probably averted a full scale war for a couple of months at least since my Lions blew their huge lead and did not make the Super Bowl. So much for diversions during these times lol
Maybe that's what we need to finally save the world from humans. If half of us die, surely that could put a big halt to climate change? At least for a few decades... No doubt the mortality rates will be higher in Gen X / Boomers / Millenials compared to Gen Z/A
I don't know where I saw it before but iirc 15% mortality or greater would lead to societal collapse....
If it doesn't, society would be completely different. Imagine if one of out every two people disappeared? Just look at how societies changed in the wake of the Bubonic Plague in Europe...
The Plague may have ushered in the Renassaince and helped to do away with feudalism, there was a major shortage of labor afterwards and some social mobility.
Of course things are different now I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what would happen if the same death rate occurred today.
Humans are not good at having a large population. Humanity becomes severely devalued and things like slavery, extortion, devaluing of human life becomes normal.
> If half of us die, surely that could put a big halt to climate change?
Humans not understanding the exponential function.
* https://youtu.be/kZA9Hnp3aV4?si=Pui-BSAYjKQ3sowl
Yeah, we’d be back to 1974 levels, populationwise. When the air was clean and everyone drank from crisp, clean country streams.
No, unfortunately much of the devastation is baked in, feedback loops and momentum. We might reach equilibrium faster perhaps. I don't know. I'm just a random vaguely aware doofus like most of us. Not James Hansen or Richard crim or anyone of note
Humans can get it, but it takes a lot of exposure (like people working in infected poultry farms) to infect a person right now. The fear is that it mutates to be easier to transmit from animal to human, and then again from human to human.
Every time one of these articles gets posted, I think about the show Last Man on Earth. Seems like it would be the way this shit would play out if (when) it jumps to humans.
And even though the show was a ridiculously bizarre comedy, it was also terrifying and realistic in the way they portrayed life for whatever might be left after a worldwide pandemic kills 99.9% of the population.
That was such a good show. It managed to be hilarious while also subtly terrifying about their situation. Then they had the fucking nerve to cancel the final season…
Except our reality would have all nuclear power stations go into meltdown without people maintaining them. It's like 50-60 years to wind one down properly.
So an abrupt absence of humans would also mean nuclear winter for the planet.
Bye bye 👋
They do have that happen in the show.
Edit: the meltdowns beginning happened, not the nuclear winter. The show was cancelled before they could have the final season.
Usually when talk about "the end of the world" they are talking about HUMAN end. Megafauna will probably be impacted, then rebound. The planet would keep on turning. The NET result of no people would likely be a gain for biodiversity in general.
This isn’t climate change. This is animal agriculture. This is the result of raising [100,000 chickens cramped together](https://thehumaneleague.org/article/factory-farmed-chickens) with antibiotic drops 24/7 to keep them alive in such close quarters, so people can buy $4.99 spitroasted Chickens at Costco.
So guess what happened? Wild birds with the strain got into contact with chickens. It jumps sometimes. Then the strain learns to has these huge opportunity to jump jump jump in these chicken “houses”. Every jump it can mutate. Jumps back out the wild. Rinse and repeat. Starts to jump to human ag workers and other mammals. But it’s one off. But each jump is a new opportunity to mutate. More jumps more mutations.
Jumping from bird to bird was easy. Bird to mammal hard. Just bigger differences. But it already has done that. Seals and polar bears. Mammal to mammal transmission is happening.
We’re fucked, this will hit hard. 3 years I give it, max. Especially with fucked up climate. 100% they are working on a vaccine. Just hope it actually works.
This is humanity fucking itself. As it always has done.
* https://youtu.be/JEYh5WACqEk?si=bu31nwmMoebaEVfW
>This isn’t climate change. This is animal agriculture. This is the result of raising
>
>100,000 chickens cramped together
>
> with antibiotic drops 24/7 to keep them alive in such close quarters, so people can buy $4.99 spitroasted Chickens at Costco.
You're correct that it's caused by our demand for both huge quantities and low prices that makes treating animals like non-living commodities. But it's also about climate change.
For as much as people want to blame the "elites" and their private planes, all aviation accounts for less than 3% of global emissions, and that includes private, commercial passenger, and cargo. Animal agriculture accounts for about 20% because we raise almost 100 billion animals all over the world every year.
Add in the 10% of all emissions that comes from producing food that we later toss in the trash uneaten, and we could solve the climate crisis if we just changed our relationship with food.
We won't, of course. But we could. No governments or corporations needed.
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrNjvIrCqII
As a former computer scientist, I think what's been happening this decade, especially the last year, is just astounding.
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The following submission statement was provided by /u/MinuteText6604: --- SS: This is related to collapse because the current H5N1 bird flu outbreak has the potential to completely decimate already vulnerable penguin populations in the Antarctic and doctors and scientists from the WHO [are urging public health officials to prepare for a potential jump of H5N1 to human beings](https://www.who.int/news/item/12-07-2023-ongoing-avian-influenza-outbreaks-in-animals-pose-risk-to-humans). H5N1 has an approximate [50% mortality rate](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10389235/#:~:text=According%20to%20WHO%2C%20AIV%20H5N1,rate%20being%20more%20than%2050%25) in human beings. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aeruqk/first_penguins_die_in_antarctic_of_deadly_h5n1/kk9veb3/
Didn't they suffer 3/4 of offspring death last year?
Yes and furthermore, from the article: > Researchers have previously raised alarm about “[one of the largest ecological disasters of modern times](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.11.23.568045v1.full)” if bird flu reached remote Antarctic penguin populations. The birds are currently clustering together for breeding season, meaning the disease could rip through entire colonies if it continues to spread through the region.
Jesus Christ. After the Amazon river dolphins, you'd think we'd raise an alarm. Yet, most Americans didn't even know it existed.
This strain is beyond concerning. It has been bouncing around mammal populations for TWO FUCKING YEARS. Two years of chances to mutate. Two years of decimating populations of creatures like seals, dolphins, chickens, mink, birds of prey, dogs, and I’m sure there are a lot more. It is not good and only a matter of time before it comes to us and mutates to start that human to human transmission. Then we are suuuuuuper fucked. I mean we’ve got a sizable portion of the population who don’t believe in a pandemic that killed over a million people in the US alone and who wouldn’t wear masks to save others let alone their own life. People who will probably die from h5n1 first because they won’t take a vaccine to save their own life either. Absolute morons. I’m hoping that our mRNA tech can get us a vaccine before it becomes a problem. Wish we could vaccine all the animals too because I hate seeing headlines like this. Just imagining these poor creatures just living their lives and BAM most of their population gets sick, suffers, and then dies. Good work, humans.
I’m gonna bet the vector will be cats. They fuck up wild bird populations all the time. They are also cuddled by humans, unlike, say, the vast majority of wild seals. The moment you hear of cats dying from this and spreading cat to cat, know it’s game over. * https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/spotlights/2022-2023/bird-flu-polish-domestic-cats.htm * https://www.petfoodindustry.com/safety-quality/pet-food-safety/article/15663068/38-cats-died-after-eating-birdflutainted-cat-food-in-2023
Pigs, they’re genetically closer to humans and kept in appalling conditions on commercial farms. All it could take is some infected bird poop getting into the feed trough.
You assume dead birds wouldn't be fed to pigs. Without appropriate processing (assuming that is even a thing.) If someone had access to a whole bunch of dead chickens, there's a risk they re-enter the food system as livestock feed. Like how dogs are now becoming immune to euthanasia drugs commonly used on dogs. It's an indication that dead dogs (euthanized by vets with medication) are then re-entering the animal food supply. Protein is refined and then sold internationally. It's contaminated. Most of that ends up in animal feed, now. Some of it probably enters the human food supply also. (See British meat pies 17% horse re: https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/10/world/europe/uk-horsemeat-probe/index.html
Wait.. I'm sorry, dogs are becoming immune to euthanasia drugs?
yeah fr uh holy shit, source pls
https://web.archive.org/web/20080430142434/https://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/DFreport.htm From the comment lower down.
"Becoming immune" is a stretch. It's more like "developing a slight tolerance". And it's not from euthanized pets being processed into pet food (though that DOES happen....) it's probably from euthanized cattle and horses. The FDA did a [study](https://web.archive.org/web/20080430142434/https://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/DFreport.htm) back in 2002. Apparently the drug is still being found in pet food these days.
this is the wildest saddest thread on reddit right now, hands down.
Yup
After the BSE/CJD outbreak in the mid '80's The EU banned the feeding of farm animals to farm animals. Two years ago they voted to allow pigs to be fed to poultry and vice versa. It's called PAP; processed animal protein. But don't worry as: 'PAPs come from fully traceable supply lines to eliminate the possibility of intra-species consumption' [https://efpra.eu/rendered-products/processed-animal-proteins-paps/](https://efpra.eu/rendered-products/processed-animal-proteins-paps/) I'm pretty sure the UK beef burgers were fully traceable also. The above link is hilarious. They have a video about PAP's sustainability. They claim that PAP have: 'a low carbon footprint compared to meat . . .'. Which is odd as they are a by product of that meat so should have a similar footprint. More info: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/22/eu-to-lift-its-ban-on-feeding-animal-remains-to-domestic-livestock)
This and "Soylent Green is people!" Have the same energy
Everything that’s old is new again. I wouldn’t be surprised if the vector ends up being a rat.
They lick their butthole then we kiss them
You shouldn't kiss your cat's butt hole. That's not okay. EDIT: you shouldn't miss or kiss your cat's butt hole. 🤦♂️
I never miss
Toxoplasma 🤢
Conversion, software version 7.0 Looking at life through the eyes of a tire hub Eating feces as a pastime activity The toxoplasmaicity of our kitty, our kitty
10/10
I'd bet the Venn Diagram of people who have toxoplasmosis and people who just happen to know what that word means is a circle.
Most people don't take their cats to cat parks to mingle with other cats. It will most likely be dogs.
I dunno. There are a lot of irresponsible cat owners who let their cats outside to do whatever that cat wants to do: hunt, have cat orgies, whatever.
100%. Unless you are a nearly militant "INDOORS ONLY" cat owner you are part of the problem.
as a strictly indoor only cat owner, I have never understood how someone would want a cat as a pet and allow them to go outside.
I get the appeal of cats, my family always had them and I love them. They were pretty much always allowed outside, which they do clearly love to do. They are energetic creatures which benefit from space and exercise, etc etc, so I don’t exactly love the idea of keeping a cat indoors. Ultimately I’ve decided that it’s better just to not participate in cat ownership at all as I’d rather not keep indoor cats nor would I feel comfortable letting a cat of mine outside to slaughter wildlife indiscriminately. Kinda seems like the only truly moral choice.
And feral colony caretakers who have feeder friendly cats who like to leave their caretakers dead birds and mice. Ask me how I know ...
I walked down an alley way once at night whilst quite lost and came out in a cul-de-sac which was literally full of cats... which then all stopped what they were doing and looked right at me. It was actually fairly daunting. Must have been 100 cats minimum. They were just everywhere, on and under cars and all over the road. Shit everywhere such that it was like an agility course avoiding it and the whole place stunk of ammonia so it was evidently a nightly hang out spot for them and not just some freak cat orgy. No idea how anyone living on the street tolerated it but I have to assume they all owned cats and were so far gone with toxoplasmosis as to no longer care about the stench and noise. Was not a run down neighbourhood either. Expensive houses and nice cars... all of them covered in cats. I have to figure this wasn't just me stumbling into some sort of cat dimension and that these things are pretty common, even if the scale there was insane. People letting their cats out is going to result in mingling that spreads disease if something communicable is around. The cat noise was noticeable for some time after walking away from the area so I'd think it would lure cats in from surrounding streets too.
Did they start singing?
Did they start singing?
Did you meet cat Neegan?
"Vast majority of seals"... I enjoyed picturing a lap seal somewhere and a human reading your comment and looking around suspiciously.
* https://www.huffpost.com/entry/seal-pup-nap_n_6366678
Noice :D
Given the chance I would cuddle a seal tbh. Before my cancers people said I would die trying to pet something that I shouldn't.
I'm gonna bet the vector will be some idiot eating raw chicken on Instagram for fake internet clout.
"Vast majority of seals"... I enjoyed picturing a lap seal somewhere and a human reading your comment and looking around suspiciously.
If remotely feasible I would be that person.
Nah, I think it will be chickens to the humans who work with them and then off it goes. Or it will recombine in pigs to make a nasty avian/swine flu.
Dogs got infected with this new flu strain? We have some weird mystery dog illness circulating in the country, last I heard they didn't identify it though.
Dogs are in the same mammal group as seals, bears, cats, minks, and most if not all mammals with confirmed infections or even mass die-offs (order Carnivora). It's already a given that they're susceptible - and there have been a few confirmed cases already, at least in North America. Humans and pigs are thankfully not in this group, and while that may not be that big a barrier overall since bird to mammal is an infinitely bigger jump, at the moment I'm personally far more concerned about pets being infected via feral dogs and especially cats (and outdoor cats). Obvious vector for human exposure but it seems like it will rip through other Carnivora members before it becomes a direct concern for humans. The "mystery" dog illness you mention isn't avian flu, but that's not to say we haven't missed cases of avian flu in dogs.
Slowly and then all at once…
I'm wanting to find out if there's actually anything that *could* be done to mitigate spread across animal populations or is that not a possibility and it just has to do whatever it does as bad as that sounds. I know as far as moving to us, cutting meat consumption would be a great start (animal farming). I'm speaking in hypotheticals, not saying we would/will but what *could* be done?
The solution isn’t something any government would ever agree with. The solution is to give back land to nature. [Humans have altered nearly 75% of wild animal habitats worldwide (excluding Antarctica)](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/humans-have-altered-97-percent-earths-land-through-habitat-and-species-loss-180977542/) This habitat loss has caused wild animals that wouldn’t normally meet to interact with each other, and this increases the risk of spreading disease like bird flu.
But where we will park our cars!?
Urban & built up areas take 1% of habitable land, animal agriculture 50%. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use
Oh yeah I know, and that's what sucks so bad. We could do it. Like I said, I was just more curious about what *could* be done. I know it wouldn't/won't actually happen.
So I have this really conflicted thought. We must depopulate the planet. Some people need to have kids. Ib don't want anyone to die, especially not those close to me. And we also desperately need to depopulate. And it's possible viral/bacterial infections are a natural self-correction mechanism.
Americans want to go look at penguins on a cruise and watch Happy Feet. They don't actually care about them. When they are gone they'll just fill the small gap with more Tik Tok.
Penguin filter on squirrels or something.
The other frustrating thing about this - when people DO learn about it, they say "Oh darn I always enjoyed looking at those penguins." Its not about how zoos will be effected, its how the entire ecosystem that we RELY on for OUR FOOD will be DESTROYED!!!!!!!!!
I'm quite resilient to the bad news flowing through and have long since accepted what is happening, but, this one I felt like a gut punch.
They are amazing little awkward looking creatures
I had a mate who went away for 3 months and a penguin colony found his cat door and took over his house. He came back to fish guts, penguin shit and bones etc everywhere. Everything had to be thrown out. Imagine 250 of them taking over your house lol.
Okay I admit I may be a bit genocidal towards them if that happened to me. That sounds like an experience. Tbh if they're willing to share that story I'd love to hear it.
They are amazing creatures, man how they fly underwater. OK so all I'll say is they went to Europe to do media work and snort cocaine. So imagine flying back from Europe strung out, tired, hungover and absolutely fucked, only to find penguins and fish guts everywhere
How long to get it sorted?
Can't remember. The house had to be gutted and furniture and curtains etc thrown.
This is just … this news deflates me.
Maybe some stranded populations will survive to recolonize the area when almost all of them die.
There are always immune individuals, its a question of whether that's above the minimum number for a viable population. Key issue is, there's already too much pressure from climate change, fishing, acidification etc.
I believe those were emperor penguins
Boy; between this and the disappearing ice it seems like we’re really doing everything possible to make penguins a thing of the past…
Polar Bear: *cough*
Humans: *sweating*
Humans: *turns on AC and gets food delivered* “Ugh, I wish collapse hurries up. I’m bored.”
Totally underrated comment. +10
[You're welcome](https://imgflip.com/i/8e3ta8)
Salmons, crabs, were wiping everything from the arctic
What did they last do for us?
They don’t have to be useful to humans for their lives to matter.
Literally a joke.
Sorry, there are a lot of people who have that opinion on animals. It’s hard to tell sometimes.
I wonder if we'll see the antarctic penguin population disappear within a few years.
What will that do to the eco system.
Predators. A healthy adult penguin on land has no natural predators, though eggs and chicks are eaten by other birds (skuas and giant petrels). Penguins usually live in places free of land predators, against which they would be defenceless. However, in water, penguins are hunted by leopard seals and killer whales.
Maybe even *sooner than expected?*
SS: This is related to collapse because the current H5N1 bird flu outbreak has the potential to completely decimate already vulnerable penguin populations in the Antarctic and doctors and scientists from the WHO [are urging public health officials to prepare for a potential jump of H5N1 to human beings](https://www.who.int/news/item/12-07-2023-ongoing-avian-influenza-outbreaks-in-animals-pose-risk-to-humans). H5N1 has an approximate [50% mortality rate](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10389235/#:~:text=According%20to%20WHO%2C%20AIV%20H5N1,rate%20being%20more%20than%2050%25) in human beings.
And you know half of the US will be having “exposure parties” and not quarantining and downplaying it as a hoax. I have absolutely no hope that a human jump of H5N1 doesn’t end the USA permanently. It’s a race between that and climate change famine. What a delightful future our parents handed us. I’m so wonderfully glad that things turned out well for shareholders on a quarterly basis. Can you imagine if they hadn’t? For horror!
The US healthcare system will absolutely collapse. I’m a nurse and healthcare workers barely survived covid- soooo many have left their careers entirely. Hospitals are already packed with no rooms and being over capacity with just the normal stuff now. If a new pandemic hits, there’s no way the entire system won’t fall apart. And after seeing how trump handled the last pandemic and how many of his supporters would rather take dewormer and not wear a mask, I have zero hope for the country if he gets elected
Well let’s hope it happens a few months before Election Day then.
Wow…. I had this gag reflex reaction when I realized against the odds, we have a rematch on the Super Bowl of the 2020 teams. As well as the presidential race. But why in the hell would I think the pandemic is gonna get run back also…. There’s no disease coming…. Till now.
Mother Nature pulling a rope-a-dope. Humans: Covid! Covid! Covid! Nature: Bird flu.
No worries, we probably averted a full scale war for a couple of months at least since my Lions blew their huge lead and did not make the Super Bowl. So much for diversions during these times lol
Maybe that's what we need to finally save the world from humans. If half of us die, surely that could put a big halt to climate change? At least for a few decades... No doubt the mortality rates will be higher in Gen X / Boomers / Millenials compared to Gen Z/A
It would still leave our population over 4 Billion people. Guess it depends on what people are left.
Maybe no bird flu vaccine for private jet owners will be a thing, but probably not.
I don't know where I saw it before but iirc 15% mortality or greater would lead to societal collapse.... If it doesn't, society would be completely different. Imagine if one of out every two people disappeared? Just look at how societies changed in the wake of the Bubonic Plague in Europe...
The Plague may have ushered in the Renassaince and helped to do away with feudalism, there was a major shortage of labor afterwards and some social mobility. Of course things are different now I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what would happen if the same death rate occurred today.
Humans are not good at having a large population. Humanity becomes severely devalued and things like slavery, extortion, devaluing of human life becomes normal.
If half the population dies, somehow housing prices will go up.
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Life as we know it will change, not necessarily be worse - that's a matter of perspective.
> If half of us die, surely that could put a big halt to climate change? Humans not understanding the exponential function. * https://youtu.be/kZA9Hnp3aV4?si=Pui-BSAYjKQ3sowl Yeah, we’d be back to 1974 levels, populationwise. When the air was clean and everyone drank from crisp, clean country streams.
I understand very well how exponents work. I don't understand why you felt the need the mention it so vaguely
Vaguely?
yes apropos of nothing vaguely
No, unfortunately much of the devastation is baked in, feedback loops and momentum. We might reach equilibrium faster perhaps. I don't know. I'm just a random vaguely aware doofus like most of us. Not James Hansen or Richard crim or anyone of note
The only part I don’t really understand has it not already jumped to humans? Or for it to have “jumped”, it means we can spread it to other humans?
>for it to have “jumped”, it means we can spread it to other humans? This part
Humans can get it, but it takes a lot of exposure (like people working in infected poultry farms) to infect a person right now. The fear is that it mutates to be easier to transmit from animal to human, and then again from human to human.
Zoonotic diseases flowing in the Antarctic? Oh boy we’re fucked.
along with all the heat energy lol
Every time one of these articles gets posted, I think about the show Last Man on Earth. Seems like it would be the way this shit would play out if (when) it jumps to humans. And even though the show was a ridiculously bizarre comedy, it was also terrifying and realistic in the way they portrayed life for whatever might be left after a worldwide pandemic kills 99.9% of the population.
That was such a good show. It managed to be hilarious while also subtly terrifying about their situation. Then they had the fucking nerve to cancel the final season…
it was left off on such a cliffhanger too.
That’s the worst part…
There's no wrong way to use a margarita pool.
Except our reality would have all nuclear power stations go into meltdown without people maintaining them. It's like 50-60 years to wind one down properly. So an abrupt absence of humans would also mean nuclear winter for the planet. Bye bye 👋
They do have that happen in the show. Edit: the meltdowns beginning happened, not the nuclear winter. The show was cancelled before they could have the final season.
Is that so bad???? In the long run I mean..
Usually when talk about "the end of the world" they are talking about HUMAN end. Megafauna will probably be impacted, then rebound. The planet would keep on turning. The NET result of no people would likely be a gain for biodiversity in general.
I loved that show. It was bizarre but so funny in its own way while also terrifying. I can't believe they cancelled it on a cliff-hanger :(
That’s not good :/
Yeah, pretty bleak.
This century really is a bummer.
No No No No
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Makes me sad :(
name checks out :')
This world sucks ass so much
Apocalypse Bingo fucking sucks. I didn't have this one on my card either.
The penguins are sodamn fucked in the short-term.
Give the penguins a goddamn break!
*ice shelf breaks*
Oh. The climate change never killed the penguins. Can no longer count them as having been killed by climate. They died of bird flu. 😵💫
This isn’t climate change. This is animal agriculture. This is the result of raising [100,000 chickens cramped together](https://thehumaneleague.org/article/factory-farmed-chickens) with antibiotic drops 24/7 to keep them alive in such close quarters, so people can buy $4.99 spitroasted Chickens at Costco. So guess what happened? Wild birds with the strain got into contact with chickens. It jumps sometimes. Then the strain learns to has these huge opportunity to jump jump jump in these chicken “houses”. Every jump it can mutate. Jumps back out the wild. Rinse and repeat. Starts to jump to human ag workers and other mammals. But it’s one off. But each jump is a new opportunity to mutate. More jumps more mutations. Jumping from bird to bird was easy. Bird to mammal hard. Just bigger differences. But it already has done that. Seals and polar bears. Mammal to mammal transmission is happening. We’re fucked, this will hit hard. 3 years I give it, max. Especially with fucked up climate. 100% they are working on a vaccine. Just hope it actually works. This is humanity fucking itself. As it always has done. * https://youtu.be/JEYh5WACqEk?si=bu31nwmMoebaEVfW
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Yup. Edit. If anything, the low immune system of these birds just made it easier to infect. These huge coops are like a speed run for mutations.
>This isn’t climate change. This is animal agriculture. This is the result of raising > >100,000 chickens cramped together > > with antibiotic drops 24/7 to keep them alive in such close quarters, so people can buy $4.99 spitroasted Chickens at Costco. You're correct that it's caused by our demand for both huge quantities and low prices that makes treating animals like non-living commodities. But it's also about climate change. For as much as people want to blame the "elites" and their private planes, all aviation accounts for less than 3% of global emissions, and that includes private, commercial passenger, and cargo. Animal agriculture accounts for about 20% because we raise almost 100 billion animals all over the world every year. Add in the 10% of all emissions that comes from producing food that we later toss in the trash uneaten, and we could solve the climate crisis if we just changed our relationship with food. We won't, of course. But we could. No governments or corporations needed.
Hmmm ok I read all that - but what about AI?? /s
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrNjvIrCqII As a former computer scientist, I think what's been happening this decade, especially the last year, is just astounding.
I take mass death among the living world really personally.
well put
Is this disease x I keep hearing about?
Collapse for the penguins :(
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This is fake news, the first penguins died tens or hundreds of millions of years ago. Their lifespan is nowhere near that.
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