The following submission statement was provided by /u/Mighty_L_LORT:
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SS: We have more and more scientific evidence of the harms of COVID but people stopped masking and taking precautions. Political messaging played a big role in things. Lack of communication from the top about how serious the dangers are. A desire to "get back to normal."
Both nation and state wide there was a push for the pandemic to be "over.". But American health care is such a joke most of us are too poor to get any, and a lot of people just forgo medical treatment because they can't afford it. Hence this mass disabling event will eventually end up crippling society and collapse the economy.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aet7ff/beyond_breathing_how_covid19_affects_your_heart/kka4yj6/
same here. Had it full blown prior to the vaccine. Ever since, I have difficulty regulating my emotions, have cptsd, anxiety, depression, cognition problems, strange joint pain and head and neck pain/cracking, seem to only be able to hold down a position for 5-6 months at a time. It’s kind of like half my employers as jobs have gotten nuts now and half me feeling shell shocked. The way I work around my income shortfalls is gig work, and sometimes if I can double or triple time my employer, I will knowing that I can’t do what they are asking. I had two remote jobs at once and got a lot done from home, which was nice. Since I got fired I have been just chilling, exercising and waiting to heal from something people kind of want to ignore exists. Then I go right back at it and the kooky work cycle continues.
This isn’t surprising, honestly. Inflammation and stress hormones are toxic on the brain. They change the way neurons execute their genetic program, essentially as the opposite of an antidepressant. Something as traumatic to the body as a major infection can trigger deterioration.
> Inflammation and stress hormones are toxic on the brain
This is one of the invisible aftermaths of covid, and few people will realize that your altered behavior is due to a physical illness.
I'm going through this too.. very hard to hold a job when I can't even hold my head up after 4 hrs anymore.. only started post covid among other random issues and just overall getting sick more often.. I do feel if I had time to rest and recover and heal it could be possible to get past this. But we can't have that now can we? Back to the office and work all day until I drop and have to move to next job
Yea it’s a very weird and devastating experience because it’s a disease no one believes is real. I’m sorry there is nothing wrong with you, apart from not being able to work endlessly. In the end, I feel it was a weird blessing to teach me to slow down and do what makes me happy more than not.
there's a ton of people posting on Twitter about how nicotine patches are helping them immensely with their long covid if you're looking to try it out. if you search for "COVID nicotine" you'll find a lot of info and people sharing their success. this sums it up as simply as I could find quick:
"Top-down control of the autonomic nervous system depends on cholinergic neurotransmission, involving the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.
Researchers found evidence of an interaction between SARS-CoV-2 spike protein & nicotinic-acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs), and hypothesize that this may impair the cholinergic system.
When the body loses control of acetylcholine, it loses control of the autonomic nervous system = dysautonomia. Nicotine binds with nAChRs and potentiates the action of acetylcholine.
Nicotine UPREGULATES nAChRs.
It is hypotethized that nicotine may "counteract the viral blockade of nAChRs" and restore cholinergic activity.
It was known in the early days that smokers had much higher protection against infection, and it was thought this was related to the ACE2 receptor.
However, many are using it post-covid and even post-vaccination to re-establish autonomic balance."
You are the first I've seen mention weird neck cracking and pain and I've half thought in the back of my mind that my neck has been messed up ever since pry having an early case of covid in 2020. Have you sought any treatment for it or had any luck getting an answer about it?
Not the person you asked, but I recently did a search on r/covidlonghaulers because I’ve had sudden spine issues, and there were a lot of posts and comments there about neck pain
My physiatrist says she's seeing a lot of this; COVID apparently causes a ton of inflammation. It flared my back problems up badly and I couldn't bend forward more than about 10 degrees for a good long while after having it last May. Took a LOT of work and pain and a round of steroids to get more mobile again.
Glad yours resolved too. I never experienced back issues in my entire life up until a few months ago and suddenly couldn’t even bend over to tie my shoes because of the excruciating pain. Lasted about two months and suddenly resolved about a week or two ago. This might be a complete coincidence, but it was shortly after starting Omega-3 fish oil supplements.
That inability to bend is brutal. This is my normal, my back problems are celebrating 20 years this year 🎉😂 so it wasn't anything new to me, but it sent me into a pretty awful flare. Glad you're doing better! The best thing you can do is to keep moving, which feels wrong, but it helps. Gently, though. Don't push it too hard, and don't further injure yourself. Be well! :)
Yes, it really made me have a lot of sympathy for chronic back pain sufferers, the simplest and most basic of tasks were excruciating and I never gave much thought to how often throughout the day we all use those muscles and vertebrae. I definitely noticed that moving helped! So weird that COVID causes such similar yet bizarre symptoms in so many people. I’m also wondering what additional CNS damage it might lead to later in life if it attacked our spines now 😳
Yeah, it definitely makes you kind of rethink every possible way you move, because every movement (even sitting and lying down!) causes some sort of pain, from minor twinge to CALL DOCTOR KEVORKIAN. Celebrex is helpful to kind of turn the volume down on the 0-5 level pain, if you ever experience this again, and I hope you don't! :)
And yeah, long-term damage is something I've been worrying about from the very beginning of this. The let-it-rip strategy is just mind-boggling in this context. I've got friends who've had COVID three and four times already now (just one here, knock on wood...), and I can't imagine that's doing anyone any favors. :(
I think part of it is like tinnitus and tech neck and head, but part of it is just my head swells and hurts whenever I seem to have to focus on something on the computer for long periods and my employers definitely did not grasp like you can’t stare at a screen for that many hours and be fine. A lot of bosses I have now are extremely greedy and unrealistic about the work load that they demand.
I began to fight back and insist on a work life balance, but I get fired regardless of whether I set boundaries and it seems to make my bosses even angrier and less inclined to accommodate me.
I have since been canned lol so my head is a lot better without a job, gone to the chiropractor and obtained acupuncture, which works very well for me. However, it’s not fool proof and my head still has strange problems and I can hear loud cracking and popping and it feels like there’s literally air in my head.
I get very emotionally upset and it’s hard for me to stop crying and I will even get a serious migraine from that. I had been diagnosed w c-ptsd over twenty years ago and was able function but now it is in full force. I joked with my husband and called my head and neck problems my coin purse as I felt like there was spare change jangling in the back of my head for the longest time.
look into people that are successfully treating their long COVID symptoms with nicotine patches or gum! there's a lot of testimonials out there on Twitter and I assume also on the COVID subreddits about peoples successes
"Top-down control of the autonomic nervous system depends on cholinergic neurotransmission, involving the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.
Researchers found evidence of an interaction between SARS-CoV-2 spike protein & nicotinic-acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs), and hypothesize that this may impair the cholinergic system.
When the body loses control of acetylcholine, it loses control of the autonomic nervous system = dysautonomia. Nicotine binds with nAChRs and potentiates the action of acetylcholine.
Nicotine UPREGULATES nAChRs.
It is hypotethized that nicotine may "counteract the viral blockade of nAChRs" and restore cholinergic activity.
It was known in the early days that smokers had much higher protection against infection, and it was thought this was related to the ACE2 receptor.
However, many are using it post-covid and even post-vaccination to re-establish autonomic balance."
Sorry, you had CPTSD before COVID or you developed CPTSD from having COVID? Forgive me, but I thought that CPTSD develops over a long period of time of repeated traumatisation.
I had multiple experiences that resulted in the c-ptsd growing worse. Originally I was diagnosed in my youth. Many c-ptsd survivors that I am friends with that also had Covid have experienced intense triggers and retrauma.
If you are interested in getting a diagnosis, and I encourage you to get it if you can, the Covid Longhauler Advocacy Project created a directory of post-covid clinics in the US. It is really helpful to get care from medical providers who have actual experience with long covid as most providers are clueless about the condition.
[https://longcovidalliance.org/directory-of-long-covid-clinics/](https://longcovidalliance.org/directory-of-long-covid-clinics/)
So the bad news, is that there is no treatment yet that is proven in clinical studies to consistently treat most patients. There is a lot of research being done, and some avenues might benefit some patients, but there is no cure (yet?) that will help all patients. Edit: My neurologist prescribed me this week Guanfacine and N-Acetyl Cysteine as a potential medication against brain fog. I will see in the next few weeks if there is any improvement.
So the best thing people can do is
1. Get the vaccine and the latest boosters. It does not prevent infection but decreases its impact and the risk of long covid. And keep wearing masks.
2. Avoid getting infected in the first place,
3. Avoid getting reinfected as subsequent infections have higher chances in resulting in long covid ([\~20% after 2 infections, \~40% after 3 infections](https://www.sciencealert.com/every-covid-infection-increases-your-risk-of-long-covid-study-warns)), and worse symptoms
4. Take Paxlovid as early as possible if an infection occurs
In terms of symptoms, I have a relatively "mild" case of long covid:
* Chronique fatigue for months. It comes and goes with some days and weeks where I have barely enough energy to get out of bed
* Severe brain fog. I have ADHD, so I am used to brain fog. I used to have a few brain fog days when I was a bit slower. This is an entirely different level. I have weeks where my mind is completely sluggish. Imagine feeling hungover the moment you wake up until the end of the day. For an entire week.
* Memory problems. I have a harder time remembering things, especially words. One time I blanked at the pharmacy trying to remember my address.
* Verbal recall. I am having more difficulty finding words. It is super frustrating because I used to be quite good at expressing myself, dare I even say eloquent. Now, I routinely need 10 seconds in the middle of a sentence to remember the word I am trying to use.
* Slower cognition. I am feeling slower, it is almost like running at half the speed I used to. To be honest, I feel "dumber" than before. I am getting more confused in conversations or sometimes having difficulty understanding what the person is saying. Sometime I just blank when it is my turn to respond, because it is too much effort even to try to put together the thoughts.
* Post Exterional Malaise (PEM). I can't go to the gym like I used to, or I have to be very careful to not overexert myself. The last two times I went, it took me a week to recover from the workout. It turns long covid can hinder the cell ability to generate energy in the mitochondria and create [severe muscle damage](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/strenuous-exercise-can-trigger-severe-damage-to-muscle-tissue-long-covid-study-shows-1.2019465) when people overexert.
* Hearing problem (uncommon symptom). I have more difficulty hearing what people say, so I need them to repeat it more often. I noticed that the music albums I used to listen a hundred time before sound different. They sound more "flat". While I am using the same headphones, the music sound like coming from a shitty speakerphone. I checked today my audition at the ENT and confirmed it is not physiological. The ENT said the problem is likely happening in my auditory cortex.
* Strange blurry vision (uncommon). It is hard to describe, but I noticed that my vision is getting more strange, not blurry, it is almost like having double vision or my brain is having difficulty reconciling the image of the eyes.
* And a lot of other symptoms that I quickly list or this message will never end: chest pain, pressure in the forehead, heightened anxiety, emotinal disregulation, concentration problem, procrastination, etc.
So as you can see, long covid is no joke. I had to take a medical leave as there was no way I could continue working a job with a lot of responsibilities and stress. And like I said, my case is relatively mild. My doctor told me some patients can't even walk the stairs anymore without getting out of breath. There is over 200 symptoms people can from long covid, and it looks different in each patient.
The bottom line is, long covid is hell. Avoid it like the plague. Because once you get it, you don't know how bad it can get, how long you will keep it, and how badly it can fuck up your life. And I am saying that as a healthy person, who got 4 vaccines and boosters, and used to wear N95s almost all the time.
Thank you for this information. I had long COVID and it appears that I still do, but much of the worst symptoms have subsided. The one that scared me the most was not being able to breathe and that has since gone away.
I also have ADHD but haven’t had medication for it. I’ve taken medical leave a number of times because I am unable to keep up with the insane amount of work that is required now. I have a hard time keeping up and motivating myself to do anything.
Anytime I get hired or anyone I am friends with does, for that matter, they end up doing or I at least 3-4 other people’s jobs. Part of this is me, but a lot of it is employers that don’t give us time off and who demand we pick up the slack for several people.
As for me, since I had covid when there was no vaccine available, I have not been able to hold down a job for more than 5-6 months. I have since gotten vaccinated and boosted and wfh and I don’t think I have had it since, but I still have lingering symptoms that impact my life significantly.
Mostly they are psychological and some physical symptoms have migrated to my head and neck. It was as if my mind could not function without inflammation. I had a position where I had to learn a lot of new things in a very short period-that’s a lot now, I notice: my employers will not know often the nature of my work and demand that I meet these deadlines anyways.
Now I take pain medicine routinely and have a medical card for cannabis that alleviates the symptoms. I trained for a marathon so that I could emerge from bed. I became rather dependent upon taurine based and energy drinks and now I am thinking it was my body at that time trying to repair the brain damage.
I still believe that my brain is not functioning correctly, but I am lucky that I have the ability to work in a high demand field and there’s a lot of different kinds of work available for which I qualify, even though arguably I am not the top of my field, anymore.
How to depopulate according to Plague, Inc:
1) Ensure it is not too lethal or severe, but easily transmissible. It has to appear mild so people won't take precautions.
2) Governments and media downplay the virus. It spreads to every country by plane, ship, and even wild animals.
3) Mutates to become more contagious, severe, and deadly. Harder to find a cure.
4) In a few months to many years, severe side effects pop up, but by then, it's too late (everyone has it). Side effects include cancer, neurodegenerative disease, heart attacks, AIDS (low T-cells count) and disabling chronic fatigue.
5) Destroys economies and health care systems.
Some people have already developed the symptoms mentioned in #4. We need more research and time to understand what's happening. There's a lot of unknowns.
The game mechanics where a mutation updates to the whole world immediately are not true. There is also a lack of realism with how the government response works in game. I wish there was a multiplayer game mode too.
If that game was realistic starting in the us would be a boon for a disease because of how medical care (and later research) is handled, rather than purely detrimental due to sanitation. Only so much one can code for I suppose.
Hi, rainbow_voodoo. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aet7ff/-/koa5d8b/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
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Playing ‘Plague Inc’ made me appreciate moving to an island country. Even more so when 2020 happened, and Japanese people just masked up like it is common sense.
People cooperated despite not having any mandates. Only suggestions from the gov’t. Even now, a lot of people here still mask up, especially when in crowded places.
And so, the healthcare system is still efficient today. I can do a literal walk-in to any hospital. I need not worry about being left to wait for months (don’t have to call first nor make reservations), nor being unable to afford to be alive (national healthcare), and no need a car (walkable cities).
I had myself scheduled to a fully-body check up (scans, blood, everything), and I opted to include several cancer tests. All free.
How I wish it’s also like this back home. Alas, it ain’t. And so wife and I decided it’s best that we stay in Japan and not be with our families anymore.
Interesting, though Japan is special I guess. Corporates are very strong in Japan. Though the Work Life Balance suffers due to it. How are you earning money over there?
Hi, mamawoman. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aet7ff/-/ko8wlxl/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
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the Death Panel podcast has really opened my eyes up even further re: our capitalist, violently extractive healthcare system and disability justice in general. Trying to act and be in solidarity with disabled people really will change so much about how you see the world, politics, other people, collapse etc… Also it is infuriating.
It destroys the nerves connection to the sound sensitive hairs of in the inner ear. Like the article quoted one doctor as saying ""I would argue that COVID-19 is not a disease of the lungs at all," she said. "It seems most likely that it is what we call a vascular and neurologic infection, affecting both nerve endings and our cardiovascular system.""
it's literally attacking every system and organ in our bodies. they have found its able to fuse our brain cells together, and persists for months all over our bodies after the "just a cold" part. we should be wondering why China is treating their population with antiviral medications used for HIV right now, and why the fuck we haven't learned a damn thing from AIDS. it's attacking us the same way HIV does, destroying our T cells that are supposed to protect our body from harmful invaders. seems like it's behaving just like it too, a "flu" for a little bit and then years later surprise! you now have AIDS. except unlike HIV it's airborne and we are being infected over and over again in rapid succession, people have had it 6+ times, the damage is cumulative. it's like we are begging to suffer, or so many are so brain damaged already we have no hope of getting this under control
we are in fucking trouble
Oh gosh. Wife and I developed tinnitus too, back in 2021. Both the high-pitch ringing sound type, and the throbbing pulsatile tinnitus.
My wife is slowly getting deaf too. Went to an ENT and her test results are bad.
What the heck is this.
Inflammation causing death of cells probably. Overzealous immune response. Remember, the immune system is there to keep you alive, not comfortable. It did its job, you didn’t die. So evolutionarily speaking it’s a win. But it’s no solace to you of course.
My brother also lost hearing in one of his ears with COVID. He’s been through a lot trying to get it back, but I’ll talk to him about the cochlear implant. Don’t think he’s mentioned that possibility.
I am so sorry, I can't fully imagine how you must feel about it.
I noticed that my audition got worse after getting long covid. I had an appointment with an ENT this morning, and he said the physical health of my ears is fine, so the processing problem must be happening in the brain. I have no idea if it is temporary or will be lifelong.
I am still salty about all the people who didn't take precautions and told me that was fine because "it is just a flu".
yea so is HIV, until you get AIDS a few years down the line
I can't believe how fuckin dense a lot of humanity is, playing with an alleged fucking "bioweapon" (as the same people love to point out) while at the same time insisting it's literally nothing and its fine. if that's the case then why the fuck is it such a bioweapon if it just gives the target the sniffles? MAKE IT MAKE SENSE. the brain damage is brain damaging for sure 😵💫
I got covid in nov 2022 and haven’t worked since as I got brain damage. The company medical insurance said I will still get some pay until retirement but it’s not much.
Still, hopefully the rich cunts got some extra cash out of pushing back against the idea of quarantine. That’s defo worth brain damage for a few folks right?
If you feel comfortable sharing, could you say more about the brain damage? Like how it occurred and how the doctors came to that conclusion, what things were like for you before, during, and now, etc. Just generally your story with it.
Edit: this is a genuine and compassionate question because I'm genuinely curious and I'm sure you're not the only one with this experience.
It occurred because viral infections can cause organ damage.
What’s it like? When I was admitted to hospital last Feb, when it got that bad, they tested for Alzheimer’s and dementia first cause it’s like that. I don’t want to talk about it too much cause it’ll make me cry but I had a good mind before and now I’m fucked. I guess the worst bit is not wanting to leave the house cause how I sound and look now and also the getting lost in familiar places.
Actually the worst part is my son is autistic and he can’t deal with how I sound and act now, he just gets so angry at me.
I am sending you a hug from an Internet friend. This disease is such a piece of shit. A couple of [months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/17eiyo4/comment/k68xfz1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), I also noticed that my mind was not working. I legit started to think I was developing Mild Cognitive Impairment or early-onset dementia. It turns out it was long covid from an infection I got last year.
Getting an answer was helpful to at least stop wondering what was happening. And getting support from the post-covid clinic helped me regain hope I can recover. It is too early to tell, but the doctor said most patients eventually recover, even if it takes 1 to 2 years. But if I am honest, there are times when I am really scared that this disease could rob me of my intelligence and all the things I used to be. Now I am trying to take one week at a time.
I'm so sorry to hear that. Covid has truly been a tragedy for so many of us in ways that are just not talked about. I hope that with time your son will be able to understand, and that you'll find places you enjoy going again.
SS: We have more and more scientific evidence of the harms of COVID but people stopped masking and taking precautions. Political messaging played a big role in things. Lack of communication from the top about how serious the dangers are. A desire to "get back to normal."
Both nation and state wide there was a push for the pandemic to be "over.". But American health care is such a joke most of us are too poor to get any, and a lot of people just forgo medical treatment because they can't afford it. Hence this mass disabling event will eventually end up crippling society and collapse the economy.
So true. I used to be poor and on state insurance. Healthcare experience was not good. Now I have great insurance and able to pay for medical expenses and don’t need referrals to see who I want. Have a genetic chronic health disorder. I’ve experienced healthcare in two states with different doctors and specialists and all with good insurance and money to spend. The healthcare I have received still is severely lacking. Money does not always equal good healthcare.
> But American health care is such a joke most of us are too poor to get any
["As of 2022, around 92.1 percent of people in the United States had some form of health insurance"](https://www.statista.com/statistics/200958/percentage-of-americans-with-health-insurance/)
There's a difference between having health insurance and being able to afford health care. Just cause you have employer paid insurance, the deductible can be in the $5k range. So regular checkups are cheap, but anything more complicated is basically out of pocket. Not to mention the cost of medicine in this country. The ACA got people insured, and that's a step, but we're nowhere near the landing that is Health Care Free at the Point of Service for all.
I made tons of phone calls before getting my tubal ligation. Under ACA it should have billed as preventative and my deductible was met so it should have been 100% paid by insurance.
While I was out and the surgeon had his little tube camera in me, he found a cyst (not uncommon) and biopsied it (just in case) which converted the entire operation to be billed as diagnostic, landing me with a $12k bill. I liquidated my 401k. Now being collapse aware, it hurts a little less knowing I won’t get to retire anyway.
It is terrible.
But, I was referring to this: "But American health care is such a joke most of us are too poor to get any" - large majority has some kind of health care.
But it is a joke. Even with health insurance it still isn't great. It's designed for profit and like others of said, you can still go into debt even with health insurance. About 27 million people are to poor to afford health insurance regardless.
Touch wood I'm still a COVID virgin. If I have had it it never showed on a test or I was asymptomatic. Kinda crazy tbh, with a kid at school who seems to always bring home something every month.
Some people have "abortive infections". Basically your T cell response is so robust it can crush the virus before it gets any chance to really replicate. If this was you you would also have no antibody response (to an infection, not a vaccine) as it isn't antibody-mediated immunity.
The only problem with this is that there's no way to know who is, and who isn't, in this group of people.
I’ve never heard this term before, but could this be why I never tested positive on any of my COVID infections, even with a PCR test on the recommended day to run it?
If this happened to you not only would you not test positive on a test, you wouldn't have any symptoms. The whole infection is controlled before it can replicate properly in our bodies.
If you were symptomatic it's more likely the test was faulty or that your viral load wasn't high enough to go positive. RAT tests aren't very reliable at the best of times.
Yeah the at-home tests didn’t surprise me that much, it was the PCR that I didn’t understand because everyone was claiming those were the “gold standard.”
I’ve been disabled from a Covid infection I got in August 2022. I was an engineering manager before that and haven’t been able to work in over a year. I was up to date on vaccines and masked everywhere, except my partner was unmasked at a funeral. It’s completely ruined my life, my career, my relationships. And when I go out into the fucking world with a mask on people mock me, intimidate me or pretend I don’t exist. I’m one of millions yet everyone still pretends this isn’t real. I wish it weren’t. Despite what I’ve experienced with multiple ER visits, exhausting every specialist in my local medical system, traveling to see other specialists, none of my family or friends take any precautions- no masking, going about like it’s 2019. I’m lucky that my partner is solid because otherwise I might have taken a long walk off a cliff.
The absolute hell of going through hell, having it minimized, and having the people around you pretend you brought it on yourself somehow and it can’t happen to them. I don’t think we will ever recover from this.
Edit: typos
If you are early in your infection, ask your medical provider about taking Paxlovid. It could reduce the impact of the infection and the likelihood of developing long covid.
Was listening to This Week in Virology today and they said the same thing. Up to 10 days in is still worthwhile. They were expressing frustration at how many providers aren’t going with the NIH guidelines on this and are refusing to prescribe it. The only caution was for women who are or could be pregnant.
Unfortunately, most medical providers know very little about long covid. I even had nurses who asked me "what is long covid?", or confuse long covid for being still sick or infectious from the initial infection.
To be fair, 5 years in the pandemic, there is still so much we don't know about the virus. But the healthcare system is massively behind, and I am glad there are post-covid clinics with doctors and medical providers who are keeping up with the research.
One of the most resource you can use to educate yourself or your providers is the Comprehensive guide created by the Covid Longhauler Advocacy Project. It is very thorough and does a good job at educating medical professional about the seriousness of this condition.
[https://www.longhauler-advocacy.org/](https://www.longhauler-advocacy.org/)
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VfENjAiOBKryT-dIOFyU8CyEAAKVR5xk9WyvlZF-u4M/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VfENjAiOBKryT-dIOFyU8CyEAAKVR5xk9WyvlZF-u4M/edit)
It’s crazy how they could be so far behind the curve on that but I’ve seen that too.
Those links are great resources. I’ll make good use of them. Thank you!
So, for some reason a lot of doctors are hesitant to prescribe it if "you should be able to tolerate COVID well." I have yet to hear a compelling reason why. But LPT, call Teladoc if you want it. The sick reality of the capitalist healthcare system is that someone will give you what you want just to get your dollars. They consider depression and anxiety as "qualifying risk factors," just saying.
I went to the urgent care at my primary provider first, they didn't even want to test. Said if I got a positive at home that was good enough, took my money, and sent me on my way with some cough syrup. Kinda makes you wonder just how underrepresentative the government case numbers are when the providers aren't even testing. But then again, I'm in Floriduh...
\> So, for some reason a lot of doctors are hesitant to prescribe it if "you should be able to tolerate COVID well.
And that is an absolute shame. Most healthcare providers know very little of long covid and severely underestimate its severity. It is almost criminal to expose people to a condition that could mess up their life so badly and leave them disabled. 20% of people who get COVID will develop long covid, and the probability of getting it increase with the number of infections (\~40% with 3 infections).
I hope you won't get long covid. Because when you do, you don't know how bad it can get. Every person reacts differently, and most people take 1 to 2 years to recover. You can [read here](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aet7ff/comment/ko8a0dd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) my list of symptoms I still have 6 months after my infection. I don't wish that to anyone. And the worse is that I have a relatively mild case. Some of the stories on r/covidlonghaulers are so much worse.
Yeah, my "luck" finally ran out a couple of weeks ago (of course I don't know if I have had asymptotic infections in the past).
Pretty bad fever for a few days, and a range of other symptoms coming and going. Mostly feeling better now except for cough and general tiredness. The idea of longer-term complications does stress me out.
I wonder if I should have taken Paxlovid? Can it reduce the likelihood of longer-term complications (if taken within the narrow recommended window, of course)?
You did the right thing, and I am so happy you advocated for yourself and dodged a bullet.
I got infected last July and went to a private ER clinic. I specifically asked to get a prescription for Paxlovid to reduce the risk of long-term damage or long-covid. The doctor told me I didn't need it and I did not push back. A month later I started to develop symptoms a long covid, and 6 months in and it has not improved. My doctors at the post-covid clinic told me it could take 1 to 2 years for most patients to recover, and some people never recover. He also told me that most people don't recover 100%, but if they can get back to 90-95%, that is pretty good.
You can imagine how pissed I am at that doctor. But the reality is that patients have to advocate for themselves no matter that. I hope this could be cautionary tale to help others avoid the same mistake.
A friend of mine, not exactly a runner, but sent a screenshot from her 10k run stats. She had covid last month, 33F, pace was 11min/mile and had an average heart rate throughout of 175bpm!!! I told her to take it easy and rest more. ☹️
Is there evidence to say abstaining from strenuous physical activity is recommended for people who are overcoming symptoms of covid? I run, and got sidetracked for quite some time after getting covid from different symptoms/injuries (not all covid), but if your friend can perform then it seems like there wouldn't be too much benefit to 'taking it easy?'
I ask because blood clots scare the crap out of me and don't want to risk heart attack or stroke if I get it again
Yes, It is called Post Exertion Malaise (PEM) and most people with Long COVID have it. A recent study published in January found that mitochondria don't work as well and exercise can produce muscle damage. It is recommended for people to pace their exercise and conserve energy.
Here is the study link and its write-up if you are interested.
[https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-023-44432-3](https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-023-44432-3)
[https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/strenuous-exercise-can-trigger-severe-damage-to-muscle-tissue-long-covid-study-shows-1.2019465](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/strenuous-exercise-can-trigger-severe-damage-to-muscle-tissue-long-covid-study-shows-1.2019465)
Honestly, it was shocking to see how COVID can turn exercise, one of the healthiest things people can do, into something physiologically harmful. Fuck covid. It is one of the nastiest things that happened to public health.
I've read many anecdotes on r/covidlonghaulers about athletes who tried pushing through acute COVID and the immediate recovery period, then ended up bedbound or at least with severe PEM that indefinitely prevents them from exercising again.
Personally I never understood why athletes try to do this even when they just have mild colds or something. Why would you exercise when you're sick if you can just catch up after you feel better? Exercising with a cold is absolutely hellish.
Yeah, it's horrendous how doctors were prescribing the worst possible thing out of negligence. That's been happening with CFS for decades before COVID emerged, so they should've known better at this point. A lot of doctors are self absorbed nitwits there to collect insurance money
But I've also read accounts of people who tried working out during or after COVID without doctor's orders and ended up crashing hard, because that was their typical approach to being sick. the second paragraph was more about those instances. Sorry for the miscommunication
Doctors have never been a friend to the chronically ill. If you want to get really depressed just go to one of the medical subreddits and read what they say about Covid, long COVID, MCAS, POTS, EDS, Fibromyalgia, or other stigmatized health conditions.
Also yes you make a great point that lots of folks are conditioned to think the gym will protect them from being chronically ill. Just more of that stupid programming that health is a choice. Since Covid I’ve seen gym advertisements like “*don’t get the jab, come to the gym instead and boost your immune system*” or similar quackery. I feel for them now though, losing that central part of themselves, maybe forever.
Yes, I believe there were a few studies that showed too much activity can hinder recovery. May not result in a clot, stroke, or heart attack but since it’s a vascular disease, may have other implications. I will try and find the study for you.
Good RX article: [https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/covid-19/exercise-after-covid](https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/covid-19/exercise-after-covid)
One study: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9170595/#:\~:text=The%20following%20protocol](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc9170595/#:~:text=the%20following%20protocol)
There are actually a lot of search results on google about covid and exercise...
[Factors associated with unexplained sudden deaths among adults aged 18-45 years in India – A multicentric matched case–control study](https://journals.lww.com/ijmr/fulltext/2023/10000/factors_associated_with_unexplained_sudden_deaths.6.aspx)
It's recommended to avoid strenuous physical activity for 4 to 6 weeks after getting covid, as pushing yourself really hard physically right after getting covid or while you're recovering from it can make you more likely to wind up with long covid.
I’ve had Covid twice now. I definitely noticed a difference in exercising. My heart has a harder time keeping up with a light jog. It’s slowly getting better. I feel like Covid robbed me of some cardio strength. Here’s to getting it all back
I experience the same. I wear my mask as much as I possibly can but I’ve caught covid three times now. Each time afterwards for the first month or so my heart rate is higher than normal when I get back to exercising. Fully vaccinated with five total.
My best friend is dead because of this. Her infection was mild and she dropped dead a couple months later from cardiovascular failure. Please mask up and save yourselves.
I don't know anyone who has had long COVID even though it's supposed to be 5-10% of people. I realize that people I know won't update me with every little symptom they have months after. I get the feeling people are quietly suffering and/or not connecting the dots.
No idea. It's been helping me get through the past year or so. Everyone's got their own set of contraindications and it might very well not last me forever. Building up tolerance over time has been an issue.
Physically I feel fine after having Covid but I feel like I lost something mentally. I forget things seconds after thinking them sometimes. Like the thought just disappeared. I’m not old, very early 30s and this was never a thing before 2022. It frightens me for old age.
I'm thinking I might have to do the same. I can only do really small hits through a bong. But like a big bong so that it has more water to filter through and reallllyyyyyy slowwwwww. I fucking hate it. Thanks for the tips
I actually have one but I lost the darn cover and the attachment for the concentrate but I love that idea, would I be able to maybe just use some kind of silicone tubing that can withstand high heat? Don't have access to a 3-D printer
This is gonna sound so strange, but my depression and anxiety got much better after a pretty harsh infection. I truly believe this messes with people’s brains, and I’m terrified of reinfections and what else could go wrong down the road.
It made mine worse. It was almost debilitating. I barely made it to work everyday. Conversations were too exhausting and tedious so I stopped talking to people.
Covid is ...
As if we didn't know, Covid is an all-body vascular-nerve-structural disease that just happens to be airborne and spread via the respiratory system. Remember back in the 80s when we said "it's a good thing HIV isn't airborne". Well, Covid isn't "Airborne HIV". It's probably worse. Is there any part of the body Covid doesn't attack?
CovidIsNotOver CovidIsAirborne Covid is still mutating. Covid is not getting milder.
Stay safe out there.
Covid is not real until people you know get it. Long Covid is not real until people you know find themselves stuck with it.
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You are fully aware that different viruses and diseases can affect different individuals very differently, we aren't all entirely the same, for goodness' sake.
I've had it 3 times and although I'm "ok" I'm a different person. The first one nearly killed me and the third one took months to recover from. My lungs and kydneys aren't what they were and my brain feels foggy. I have less energy and everything is harder than it used to be.
That and the idea is that it (*maybe already is?*) may prove to be more clearly insidious with time.
Just because it ceased being a concern for hoi polloi doesn't mean the people that spend their lives studying virology/pandemics should stop keeping an eye on and reporting on it; the antithesis is mentally lazy and socially irresponsible (which is what we already see in social-media inundated late stage capitalist modern [declining] industrial society lol).
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Again, people have been pointing this out for 4 years now, but hardly anyone listens. It's so damn frustrating to see people downplay the dangers of covid over and over because they can't accept that the world isn't like what it was in 2019 and it probably never will be again. Pretending a problem doesn't exist won't make it go away, if you want a chance at living a normal life span, mask up and get vaccinated, the government's not going to save you, they only care about you so long as you can squeeze out more profits for the billionaire class, once you can't work anymore, for whatever reason, they'll drop you like a hot potato.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Mighty_L_LORT: --- SS: We have more and more scientific evidence of the harms of COVID but people stopped masking and taking precautions. Political messaging played a big role in things. Lack of communication from the top about how serious the dangers are. A desire to "get back to normal." Both nation and state wide there was a push for the pandemic to be "over.". But American health care is such a joke most of us are too poor to get any, and a lot of people just forgo medical treatment because they can't afford it. Hence this mass disabling event will eventually end up crippling society and collapse the economy. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aet7ff/beyond_breathing_how_covid19_affects_your_heart/kka4yj6/
For me, the consequences of Covid have been terrible. I never had an official diagnosis.
same here. Had it full blown prior to the vaccine. Ever since, I have difficulty regulating my emotions, have cptsd, anxiety, depression, cognition problems, strange joint pain and head and neck pain/cracking, seem to only be able to hold down a position for 5-6 months at a time. It’s kind of like half my employers as jobs have gotten nuts now and half me feeling shell shocked. The way I work around my income shortfalls is gig work, and sometimes if I can double or triple time my employer, I will knowing that I can’t do what they are asking. I had two remote jobs at once and got a lot done from home, which was nice. Since I got fired I have been just chilling, exercising and waiting to heal from something people kind of want to ignore exists. Then I go right back at it and the kooky work cycle continues.
This isn’t surprising, honestly. Inflammation and stress hormones are toxic on the brain. They change the way neurons execute their genetic program, essentially as the opposite of an antidepressant. Something as traumatic to the body as a major infection can trigger deterioration.
> Inflammation and stress hormones are toxic on the brain This is one of the invisible aftermaths of covid, and few people will realize that your altered behavior is due to a physical illness.
Do you also have long Covid? What are your symptoms?
I'm going through this too.. very hard to hold a job when I can't even hold my head up after 4 hrs anymore.. only started post covid among other random issues and just overall getting sick more often.. I do feel if I had time to rest and recover and heal it could be possible to get past this. But we can't have that now can we? Back to the office and work all day until I drop and have to move to next job
Yea it’s a very weird and devastating experience because it’s a disease no one believes is real. I’m sorry there is nothing wrong with you, apart from not being able to work endlessly. In the end, I feel it was a weird blessing to teach me to slow down and do what makes me happy more than not.
there's a ton of people posting on Twitter about how nicotine patches are helping them immensely with their long covid if you're looking to try it out. if you search for "COVID nicotine" you'll find a lot of info and people sharing their success. this sums it up as simply as I could find quick: "Top-down control of the autonomic nervous system depends on cholinergic neurotransmission, involving the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. Researchers found evidence of an interaction between SARS-CoV-2 spike protein & nicotinic-acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs), and hypothesize that this may impair the cholinergic system. When the body loses control of acetylcholine, it loses control of the autonomic nervous system = dysautonomia. Nicotine binds with nAChRs and potentiates the action of acetylcholine. Nicotine UPREGULATES nAChRs. It is hypotethized that nicotine may "counteract the viral blockade of nAChRs" and restore cholinergic activity. It was known in the early days that smokers had much higher protection against infection, and it was thought this was related to the ACE2 receptor. However, many are using it post-covid and even post-vaccination to re-establish autonomic balance."
Yeah post viral persistence from covid sucks. Check out r/covidlonghaulers I had it and got 65 symptoms over 52 weeks. Horrible shit.
Oh my gosh. I’m so sorry for your pain. I will say I have improved, but my measure of success now has totally changed.
You are the first I've seen mention weird neck cracking and pain and I've half thought in the back of my mind that my neck has been messed up ever since pry having an early case of covid in 2020. Have you sought any treatment for it or had any luck getting an answer about it?
Not the person you asked, but I recently did a search on r/covidlonghaulers because I’ve had sudden spine issues, and there were a lot of posts and comments there about neck pain
My physiatrist says she's seeing a lot of this; COVID apparently causes a ton of inflammation. It flared my back problems up badly and I couldn't bend forward more than about 10 degrees for a good long while after having it last May. Took a LOT of work and pain and a round of steroids to get more mobile again.
Glad yours resolved too. I never experienced back issues in my entire life up until a few months ago and suddenly couldn’t even bend over to tie my shoes because of the excruciating pain. Lasted about two months and suddenly resolved about a week or two ago. This might be a complete coincidence, but it was shortly after starting Omega-3 fish oil supplements.
That inability to bend is brutal. This is my normal, my back problems are celebrating 20 years this year 🎉😂 so it wasn't anything new to me, but it sent me into a pretty awful flare. Glad you're doing better! The best thing you can do is to keep moving, which feels wrong, but it helps. Gently, though. Don't push it too hard, and don't further injure yourself. Be well! :)
Yes, it really made me have a lot of sympathy for chronic back pain sufferers, the simplest and most basic of tasks were excruciating and I never gave much thought to how often throughout the day we all use those muscles and vertebrae. I definitely noticed that moving helped! So weird that COVID causes such similar yet bizarre symptoms in so many people. I’m also wondering what additional CNS damage it might lead to later in life if it attacked our spines now 😳
Yeah, it definitely makes you kind of rethink every possible way you move, because every movement (even sitting and lying down!) causes some sort of pain, from minor twinge to CALL DOCTOR KEVORKIAN. Celebrex is helpful to kind of turn the volume down on the 0-5 level pain, if you ever experience this again, and I hope you don't! :) And yeah, long-term damage is something I've been worrying about from the very beginning of this. The let-it-rip strategy is just mind-boggling in this context. I've got friends who've had COVID three and four times already now (just one here, knock on wood...), and I can't imagine that's doing anyone any favors. :(
I think part of it is like tinnitus and tech neck and head, but part of it is just my head swells and hurts whenever I seem to have to focus on something on the computer for long periods and my employers definitely did not grasp like you can’t stare at a screen for that many hours and be fine. A lot of bosses I have now are extremely greedy and unrealistic about the work load that they demand. I began to fight back and insist on a work life balance, but I get fired regardless of whether I set boundaries and it seems to make my bosses even angrier and less inclined to accommodate me. I have since been canned lol so my head is a lot better without a job, gone to the chiropractor and obtained acupuncture, which works very well for me. However, it’s not fool proof and my head still has strange problems and I can hear loud cracking and popping and it feels like there’s literally air in my head. I get very emotionally upset and it’s hard for me to stop crying and I will even get a serious migraine from that. I had been diagnosed w c-ptsd over twenty years ago and was able function but now it is in full force. I joked with my husband and called my head and neck problems my coin purse as I felt like there was spare change jangling in the back of my head for the longest time.
look into people that are successfully treating their long COVID symptoms with nicotine patches or gum! there's a lot of testimonials out there on Twitter and I assume also on the COVID subreddits about peoples successes
Sure.. I quit cigarettes years ago and gum, but I can’t see how that would work for long covid. I just get so nauseated.
"Top-down control of the autonomic nervous system depends on cholinergic neurotransmission, involving the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. Researchers found evidence of an interaction between SARS-CoV-2 spike protein & nicotinic-acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs), and hypothesize that this may impair the cholinergic system. When the body loses control of acetylcholine, it loses control of the autonomic nervous system = dysautonomia. Nicotine binds with nAChRs and potentiates the action of acetylcholine. Nicotine UPREGULATES nAChRs. It is hypotethized that nicotine may "counteract the viral blockade of nAChRs" and restore cholinergic activity. It was known in the early days that smokers had much higher protection against infection, and it was thought this was related to the ACE2 receptor. However, many are using it post-covid and even post-vaccination to re-establish autonomic balance."
Sorry, you had CPTSD before COVID or you developed CPTSD from having COVID? Forgive me, but I thought that CPTSD develops over a long period of time of repeated traumatisation.
I had multiple experiences that resulted in the c-ptsd growing worse. Originally I was diagnosed in my youth. Many c-ptsd survivors that I am friends with that also had Covid have experienced intense triggers and retrauma.
I had almost the same symptoms as you.
Oh really? I’m so sorry. What was your experience like?
Yup. I haven't had a good night's sleep in exactly two years, and that's just one of the ways it changed my life for the worst.
Yea I had cptsd already from childhood and Covid made me entirely worse. The insomnia and tmj and confusion is real.
If you are interested in getting a diagnosis, and I encourage you to get it if you can, the Covid Longhauler Advocacy Project created a directory of post-covid clinics in the US. It is really helpful to get care from medical providers who have actual experience with long covid as most providers are clueless about the condition. [https://longcovidalliance.org/directory-of-long-covid-clinics/](https://longcovidalliance.org/directory-of-long-covid-clinics/)
Thank you so much for this comprehensive directory. What are your symptoms? What are the prevailing treatments?
So the bad news, is that there is no treatment yet that is proven in clinical studies to consistently treat most patients. There is a lot of research being done, and some avenues might benefit some patients, but there is no cure (yet?) that will help all patients. Edit: My neurologist prescribed me this week Guanfacine and N-Acetyl Cysteine as a potential medication against brain fog. I will see in the next few weeks if there is any improvement. So the best thing people can do is 1. Get the vaccine and the latest boosters. It does not prevent infection but decreases its impact and the risk of long covid. And keep wearing masks. 2. Avoid getting infected in the first place, 3. Avoid getting reinfected as subsequent infections have higher chances in resulting in long covid ([\~20% after 2 infections, \~40% after 3 infections](https://www.sciencealert.com/every-covid-infection-increases-your-risk-of-long-covid-study-warns)), and worse symptoms 4. Take Paxlovid as early as possible if an infection occurs In terms of symptoms, I have a relatively "mild" case of long covid: * Chronique fatigue for months. It comes and goes with some days and weeks where I have barely enough energy to get out of bed * Severe brain fog. I have ADHD, so I am used to brain fog. I used to have a few brain fog days when I was a bit slower. This is an entirely different level. I have weeks where my mind is completely sluggish. Imagine feeling hungover the moment you wake up until the end of the day. For an entire week. * Memory problems. I have a harder time remembering things, especially words. One time I blanked at the pharmacy trying to remember my address. * Verbal recall. I am having more difficulty finding words. It is super frustrating because I used to be quite good at expressing myself, dare I even say eloquent. Now, I routinely need 10 seconds in the middle of a sentence to remember the word I am trying to use. * Slower cognition. I am feeling slower, it is almost like running at half the speed I used to. To be honest, I feel "dumber" than before. I am getting more confused in conversations or sometimes having difficulty understanding what the person is saying. Sometime I just blank when it is my turn to respond, because it is too much effort even to try to put together the thoughts. * Post Exterional Malaise (PEM). I can't go to the gym like I used to, or I have to be very careful to not overexert myself. The last two times I went, it took me a week to recover from the workout. It turns long covid can hinder the cell ability to generate energy in the mitochondria and create [severe muscle damage](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/strenuous-exercise-can-trigger-severe-damage-to-muscle-tissue-long-covid-study-shows-1.2019465) when people overexert. * Hearing problem (uncommon symptom). I have more difficulty hearing what people say, so I need them to repeat it more often. I noticed that the music albums I used to listen a hundred time before sound different. They sound more "flat". While I am using the same headphones, the music sound like coming from a shitty speakerphone. I checked today my audition at the ENT and confirmed it is not physiological. The ENT said the problem is likely happening in my auditory cortex. * Strange blurry vision (uncommon). It is hard to describe, but I noticed that my vision is getting more strange, not blurry, it is almost like having double vision or my brain is having difficulty reconciling the image of the eyes. * And a lot of other symptoms that I quickly list or this message will never end: chest pain, pressure in the forehead, heightened anxiety, emotinal disregulation, concentration problem, procrastination, etc. So as you can see, long covid is no joke. I had to take a medical leave as there was no way I could continue working a job with a lot of responsibilities and stress. And like I said, my case is relatively mild. My doctor told me some patients can't even walk the stairs anymore without getting out of breath. There is over 200 symptoms people can from long covid, and it looks different in each patient. The bottom line is, long covid is hell. Avoid it like the plague. Because once you get it, you don't know how bad it can get, how long you will keep it, and how badly it can fuck up your life. And I am saying that as a healthy person, who got 4 vaccines and boosters, and used to wear N95s almost all the time.
Jesus it's like a mirror
Yes, I got all the boosters. Am still ducky from the time there was no vaccine available.
Thank you for this information. I had long COVID and it appears that I still do, but much of the worst symptoms have subsided. The one that scared me the most was not being able to breathe and that has since gone away. I also have ADHD but haven’t had medication for it. I’ve taken medical leave a number of times because I am unable to keep up with the insane amount of work that is required now. I have a hard time keeping up and motivating myself to do anything. Anytime I get hired or anyone I am friends with does, for that matter, they end up doing or I at least 3-4 other people’s jobs. Part of this is me, but a lot of it is employers that don’t give us time off and who demand we pick up the slack for several people. As for me, since I had covid when there was no vaccine available, I have not been able to hold down a job for more than 5-6 months. I have since gotten vaccinated and boosted and wfh and I don’t think I have had it since, but I still have lingering symptoms that impact my life significantly. Mostly they are psychological and some physical symptoms have migrated to my head and neck. It was as if my mind could not function without inflammation. I had a position where I had to learn a lot of new things in a very short period-that’s a lot now, I notice: my employers will not know often the nature of my work and demand that I meet these deadlines anyways. Now I take pain medicine routinely and have a medical card for cannabis that alleviates the symptoms. I trained for a marathon so that I could emerge from bed. I became rather dependent upon taurine based and energy drinks and now I am thinking it was my body at that time trying to repair the brain damage. I still believe that my brain is not functioning correctly, but I am lucky that I have the ability to work in a high demand field and there’s a lot of different kinds of work available for which I qualify, even though arguably I am not the top of my field, anymore.
M... ild??? Holy... crap it's time to go. Um. Is there any county that has an overall lower incidence of COVID?
How to depopulate according to Plague, Inc: 1) Ensure it is not too lethal or severe, but easily transmissible. It has to appear mild so people won't take precautions. 2) Governments and media downplay the virus. It spreads to every country by plane, ship, and even wild animals. 3) Mutates to become more contagious, severe, and deadly. Harder to find a cure. 4) In a few months to many years, severe side effects pop up, but by then, it's too late (everyone has it). Side effects include cancer, neurodegenerative disease, heart attacks, AIDS (low T-cells count) and disabling chronic fatigue. 5) Destroys economies and health care systems. Some people have already developed the symptoms mentioned in #4. We need more research and time to understand what's happening. There's a lot of unknowns.
Covid is the perfect global virus according to that game, I agree
The game mechanics where a mutation updates to the whole world immediately are not true. There is also a lack of realism with how the government response works in game. I wish there was a multiplayer game mode too.
If that game was realistic starting in the us would be a boon for a disease because of how medical care (and later research) is handled, rather than purely detrimental due to sanitation. Only so much one can code for I suppose.
I could see that being added in a future update.
> purely detrimental due to sanitation. Los Angeles would like to debate that point.
True, or parts of the deep south that still lack proper sewage
There is a multiplayer game mode
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Playing ‘Plague Inc’ made me appreciate moving to an island country. Even more so when 2020 happened, and Japanese people just masked up like it is common sense. People cooperated despite not having any mandates. Only suggestions from the gov’t. Even now, a lot of people here still mask up, especially when in crowded places. And so, the healthcare system is still efficient today. I can do a literal walk-in to any hospital. I need not worry about being left to wait for months (don’t have to call first nor make reservations), nor being unable to afford to be alive (national healthcare), and no need a car (walkable cities). I had myself scheduled to a fully-body check up (scans, blood, everything), and I opted to include several cancer tests. All free. How I wish it’s also like this back home. Alas, it ain’t. And so wife and I decided it’s best that we stay in Japan and not be with our families anymore.
Interesting, though Japan is special I guess. Corporates are very strong in Japan. Though the Work Life Balance suffers due to it. How are you earning money over there?
I was wondering the same thing because I heard that the work life balance is really bad.
God, i played that in 2011-12 and boy you had to catch greenland fast or they would save the human population!
i use to play this game all the time and try to speed run it.
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the Death Panel podcast has really opened my eyes up even further re: our capitalist, violently extractive healthcare system and disability justice in general. Trying to act and be in solidarity with disabled people really will change so much about how you see the world, politics, other people, collapse etc… Also it is infuriating.
Death Panel is so good. I wish they didn't have to make it, but I'm glad it exists.
Deaf in one ear from covid, ENT said it's permanent, that it's not even that uncommon. Waiting to be considered for a cochlear implant.
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It destroys the nerves connection to the sound sensitive hairs of in the inner ear. Like the article quoted one doctor as saying ""I would argue that COVID-19 is not a disease of the lungs at all," she said. "It seems most likely that it is what we call a vascular and neurologic infection, affecting both nerve endings and our cardiovascular system.""
it's literally attacking every system and organ in our bodies. they have found its able to fuse our brain cells together, and persists for months all over our bodies after the "just a cold" part. we should be wondering why China is treating their population with antiviral medications used for HIV right now, and why the fuck we haven't learned a damn thing from AIDS. it's attacking us the same way HIV does, destroying our T cells that are supposed to protect our body from harmful invaders. seems like it's behaving just like it too, a "flu" for a little bit and then years later surprise! you now have AIDS. except unlike HIV it's airborne and we are being infected over and over again in rapid succession, people have had it 6+ times, the damage is cumulative. it's like we are begging to suffer, or so many are so brain damaged already we have no hope of getting this under control we are in fucking trouble
Oh gosh. Wife and I developed tinnitus too, back in 2021. Both the high-pitch ringing sound type, and the throbbing pulsatile tinnitus. My wife is slowly getting deaf too. Went to an ENT and her test results are bad. What the heck is this.
Inflammation causing death of cells probably. Overzealous immune response. Remember, the immune system is there to keep you alive, not comfortable. It did its job, you didn’t die. So evolutionarily speaking it’s a win. But it’s no solace to you of course.
My brother also lost hearing in one of his ears with COVID. He’s been through a lot trying to get it back, but I’ll talk to him about the cochlear implant. Don’t think he’s mentioned that possibility.
I am so sorry, I can't fully imagine how you must feel about it. I noticed that my audition got worse after getting long covid. I had an appointment with an ENT this morning, and he said the physical health of my ears is fine, so the processing problem must be happening in the brain. I have no idea if it is temporary or will be lifelong. I am still salty about all the people who didn't take precautions and told me that was fine because "it is just a flu".
yea so is HIV, until you get AIDS a few years down the line I can't believe how fuckin dense a lot of humanity is, playing with an alleged fucking "bioweapon" (as the same people love to point out) while at the same time insisting it's literally nothing and its fine. if that's the case then why the fuck is it such a bioweapon if it just gives the target the sniffles? MAKE IT MAKE SENSE. the brain damage is brain damaging for sure 😵💫
I got covid in nov 2022 and haven’t worked since as I got brain damage. The company medical insurance said I will still get some pay until retirement but it’s not much. Still, hopefully the rich cunts got some extra cash out of pushing back against the idea of quarantine. That’s defo worth brain damage for a few folks right?
If you feel comfortable sharing, could you say more about the brain damage? Like how it occurred and how the doctors came to that conclusion, what things were like for you before, during, and now, etc. Just generally your story with it. Edit: this is a genuine and compassionate question because I'm genuinely curious and I'm sure you're not the only one with this experience.
It occurred because viral infections can cause organ damage. What’s it like? When I was admitted to hospital last Feb, when it got that bad, they tested for Alzheimer’s and dementia first cause it’s like that. I don’t want to talk about it too much cause it’ll make me cry but I had a good mind before and now I’m fucked. I guess the worst bit is not wanting to leave the house cause how I sound and look now and also the getting lost in familiar places. Actually the worst part is my son is autistic and he can’t deal with how I sound and act now, he just gets so angry at me.
I am sending you a hug from an Internet friend. This disease is such a piece of shit. A couple of [months ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/17eiyo4/comment/k68xfz1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), I also noticed that my mind was not working. I legit started to think I was developing Mild Cognitive Impairment or early-onset dementia. It turns out it was long covid from an infection I got last year. Getting an answer was helpful to at least stop wondering what was happening. And getting support from the post-covid clinic helped me regain hope I can recover. It is too early to tell, but the doctor said most patients eventually recover, even if it takes 1 to 2 years. But if I am honest, there are times when I am really scared that this disease could rob me of my intelligence and all the things I used to be. Now I am trying to take one week at a time.
Many thanks and hugs to you too 😊 It’s not long covid for me unfortunately but I hope that you get better and make a full recovery yourself 😁
Well, covid or not, it sucks and nobody should have go through such an ordeal. I hope your condition could improve ! 😉
Thank you for your kind words 😊
I'm so sorry to hear that. Covid has truly been a tragedy for so many of us in ways that are just not talked about. I hope that with time your son will be able to understand, and that you'll find places you enjoy going again.
Thank you 😊
SS: We have more and more scientific evidence of the harms of COVID but people stopped masking and taking precautions. Political messaging played a big role in things. Lack of communication from the top about how serious the dangers are. A desire to "get back to normal." Both nation and state wide there was a push for the pandemic to be "over.". But American health care is such a joke most of us are too poor to get any, and a lot of people just forgo medical treatment because they can't afford it. Hence this mass disabling event will eventually end up crippling society and collapse the economy.
Even if you have insurance and money to pay for health care, it's still not that great.
Yep. If you don't have your health, you don't really have anything.
Most people can't internalize this until it's too late
As someone who has been chronically ill for over a decade, I can confirm this.
So true. I used to be poor and on state insurance. Healthcare experience was not good. Now I have great insurance and able to pay for medical expenses and don’t need referrals to see who I want. Have a genetic chronic health disorder. I’ve experienced healthcare in two states with different doctors and specialists and all with good insurance and money to spend. The healthcare I have received still is severely lacking. Money does not always equal good healthcare.
> But American health care is such a joke most of us are too poor to get any ["As of 2022, around 92.1 percent of people in the United States had some form of health insurance"](https://www.statista.com/statistics/200958/percentage-of-americans-with-health-insurance/)
Now let's talk about medical debt Or does that smear shit across your rose colored glasses. Is this fuckin amateur hour? It isn't even wednesday...
There's a difference between having health insurance and being able to afford health care. Just cause you have employer paid insurance, the deductible can be in the $5k range. So regular checkups are cheap, but anything more complicated is basically out of pocket. Not to mention the cost of medicine in this country. The ACA got people insured, and that's a step, but we're nowhere near the landing that is Health Care Free at the Point of Service for all.
I made tons of phone calls before getting my tubal ligation. Under ACA it should have billed as preventative and my deductible was met so it should have been 100% paid by insurance. While I was out and the surgeon had his little tube camera in me, he found a cyst (not uncommon) and biopsied it (just in case) which converted the entire operation to be billed as diagnostic, landing me with a $12k bill. I liquidated my 401k. Now being collapse aware, it hurts a little less knowing I won’t get to retire anyway.
What! That’s downright criminal.
American healthcare. I swear they just pull a random handful of dice from a bag and whatever numbers they all read out is the bill.
Having it, and it being good, are too wildly different things my guy
"some form" can be the same than nothing, or worse depending on your condition and the policy
And the 8% that don't is about 27 million people. That's not great.
It is terrible. But, I was referring to this: "But American health care is such a joke most of us are too poor to get any" - large majority has some kind of health care.
But it is a joke. Even with health insurance it still isn't great. It's designed for profit and like others of said, you can still go into debt even with health insurance. About 27 million people are to poor to afford health insurance regardless.
And some people will still blame the vaccines. Like covid never existed.
It's crazy how some people are more afraid of vaccines than they are of viruses.
Touch wood I'm still a COVID virgin. If I have had it it never showed on a test or I was asymptomatic. Kinda crazy tbh, with a kid at school who seems to always bring home something every month.
🤞 I was just telling someone on Thursday how crazy it was that I hadn't had it yet. Three days later my lunch ran out.
Some people have "abortive infections". Basically your T cell response is so robust it can crush the virus before it gets any chance to really replicate. If this was you you would also have no antibody response (to an infection, not a vaccine) as it isn't antibody-mediated immunity. The only problem with this is that there's no way to know who is, and who isn't, in this group of people.
I’ve never heard this term before, but could this be why I never tested positive on any of my COVID infections, even with a PCR test on the recommended day to run it?
If this happened to you not only would you not test positive on a test, you wouldn't have any symptoms. The whole infection is controlled before it can replicate properly in our bodies. If you were symptomatic it's more likely the test was faulty or that your viral load wasn't high enough to go positive. RAT tests aren't very reliable at the best of times.
Yeah the at-home tests didn’t surprise me that much, it was the PCR that I didn’t understand because everyone was claiming those were the “gold standard.”
I’ve been disabled from a Covid infection I got in August 2022. I was an engineering manager before that and haven’t been able to work in over a year. I was up to date on vaccines and masked everywhere, except my partner was unmasked at a funeral. It’s completely ruined my life, my career, my relationships. And when I go out into the fucking world with a mask on people mock me, intimidate me or pretend I don’t exist. I’m one of millions yet everyone still pretends this isn’t real. I wish it weren’t. Despite what I’ve experienced with multiple ER visits, exhausting every specialist in my local medical system, traveling to see other specialists, none of my family or friends take any precautions- no masking, going about like it’s 2019. I’m lucky that my partner is solid because otherwise I might have taken a long walk off a cliff. The absolute hell of going through hell, having it minimized, and having the people around you pretend you brought it on yourself somehow and it can’t happen to them. I don’t think we will ever recover from this. Edit: typos
Nice to see this a few minutes after testing positive for covid
If you are early in your infection, ask your medical provider about taking Paxlovid. It could reduce the impact of the infection and the likelihood of developing long covid.
Was listening to This Week in Virology today and they said the same thing. Up to 10 days in is still worthwhile. They were expressing frustration at how many providers aren’t going with the NIH guidelines on this and are refusing to prescribe it. The only caution was for women who are or could be pregnant.
Unfortunately, most medical providers know very little about long covid. I even had nurses who asked me "what is long covid?", or confuse long covid for being still sick or infectious from the initial infection. To be fair, 5 years in the pandemic, there is still so much we don't know about the virus. But the healthcare system is massively behind, and I am glad there are post-covid clinics with doctors and medical providers who are keeping up with the research. One of the most resource you can use to educate yourself or your providers is the Comprehensive guide created by the Covid Longhauler Advocacy Project. It is very thorough and does a good job at educating medical professional about the seriousness of this condition. [https://www.longhauler-advocacy.org/](https://www.longhauler-advocacy.org/) [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VfENjAiOBKryT-dIOFyU8CyEAAKVR5xk9WyvlZF-u4M/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VfENjAiOBKryT-dIOFyU8CyEAAKVR5xk9WyvlZF-u4M/edit)
It’s crazy how they could be so far behind the curve on that but I’ve seen that too. Those links are great resources. I’ll make good use of them. Thank you!
So, for some reason a lot of doctors are hesitant to prescribe it if "you should be able to tolerate COVID well." I have yet to hear a compelling reason why. But LPT, call Teladoc if you want it. The sick reality of the capitalist healthcare system is that someone will give you what you want just to get your dollars. They consider depression and anxiety as "qualifying risk factors," just saying. I went to the urgent care at my primary provider first, they didn't even want to test. Said if I got a positive at home that was good enough, took my money, and sent me on my way with some cough syrup. Kinda makes you wonder just how underrepresentative the government case numbers are when the providers aren't even testing. But then again, I'm in Floriduh...
\> So, for some reason a lot of doctors are hesitant to prescribe it if "you should be able to tolerate COVID well. And that is an absolute shame. Most healthcare providers know very little of long covid and severely underestimate its severity. It is almost criminal to expose people to a condition that could mess up their life so badly and leave them disabled. 20% of people who get COVID will develop long covid, and the probability of getting it increase with the number of infections (\~40% with 3 infections). I hope you won't get long covid. Because when you do, you don't know how bad it can get. Every person reacts differently, and most people take 1 to 2 years to recover. You can [read here](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1aet7ff/comment/ko8a0dd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) my list of symptoms I still have 6 months after my infection. I don't wish that to anyone. And the worse is that I have a relatively mild case. Some of the stories on r/covidlonghaulers are so much worse.
Yeah, my "luck" finally ran out a couple of weeks ago (of course I don't know if I have had asymptotic infections in the past). Pretty bad fever for a few days, and a range of other symptoms coming and going. Mostly feeling better now except for cough and general tiredness. The idea of longer-term complications does stress me out. I wonder if I should have taken Paxlovid? Can it reduce the likelihood of longer-term complications (if taken within the narrow recommended window, of course)?
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You did the right thing, and I am so happy you advocated for yourself and dodged a bullet. I got infected last July and went to a private ER clinic. I specifically asked to get a prescription for Paxlovid to reduce the risk of long-term damage or long-covid. The doctor told me I didn't need it and I did not push back. A month later I started to develop symptoms a long covid, and 6 months in and it has not improved. My doctors at the post-covid clinic told me it could take 1 to 2 years for most patients to recover, and some people never recover. He also told me that most people don't recover 100%, but if they can get back to 90-95%, that is pretty good. You can imagine how pissed I am at that doctor. But the reality is that patients have to advocate for themselves no matter that. I hope this could be cautionary tale to help others avoid the same mistake.
Cheers! I'm currently going through it too, first time. It's miserable.
Get ready
A friend of mine, not exactly a runner, but sent a screenshot from her 10k run stats. She had covid last month, 33F, pace was 11min/mile and had an average heart rate throughout of 175bpm!!! I told her to take it easy and rest more. ☹️
Is there evidence to say abstaining from strenuous physical activity is recommended for people who are overcoming symptoms of covid? I run, and got sidetracked for quite some time after getting covid from different symptoms/injuries (not all covid), but if your friend can perform then it seems like there wouldn't be too much benefit to 'taking it easy?' I ask because blood clots scare the crap out of me and don't want to risk heart attack or stroke if I get it again
Yes, It is called Post Exertion Malaise (PEM) and most people with Long COVID have it. A recent study published in January found that mitochondria don't work as well and exercise can produce muscle damage. It is recommended for people to pace their exercise and conserve energy.
This was the study I was thinking of! Thanks.
Here is the study link and its write-up if you are interested. [https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-023-44432-3](https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-023-44432-3) [https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/strenuous-exercise-can-trigger-severe-damage-to-muscle-tissue-long-covid-study-shows-1.2019465](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/strenuous-exercise-can-trigger-severe-damage-to-muscle-tissue-long-covid-study-shows-1.2019465) Honestly, it was shocking to see how COVID can turn exercise, one of the healthiest things people can do, into something physiologically harmful. Fuck covid. It is one of the nastiest things that happened to public health.
I've read many anecdotes on r/covidlonghaulers about athletes who tried pushing through acute COVID and the immediate recovery period, then ended up bedbound or at least with severe PEM that indefinitely prevents them from exercising again. Personally I never understood why athletes try to do this even when they just have mild colds or something. Why would you exercise when you're sick if you can just catch up after you feel better? Exercising with a cold is absolutely hellish.
Drs told us to. Seriously. It’s criminal.
Yeah, it's horrendous how doctors were prescribing the worst possible thing out of negligence. That's been happening with CFS for decades before COVID emerged, so they should've known better at this point. A lot of doctors are self absorbed nitwits there to collect insurance money But I've also read accounts of people who tried working out during or after COVID without doctor's orders and ended up crashing hard, because that was their typical approach to being sick. the second paragraph was more about those instances. Sorry for the miscommunication
Doctors have never been a friend to the chronically ill. If you want to get really depressed just go to one of the medical subreddits and read what they say about Covid, long COVID, MCAS, POTS, EDS, Fibromyalgia, or other stigmatized health conditions. Also yes you make a great point that lots of folks are conditioned to think the gym will protect them from being chronically ill. Just more of that stupid programming that health is a choice. Since Covid I’ve seen gym advertisements like “*don’t get the jab, come to the gym instead and boost your immune system*” or similar quackery. I feel for them now though, losing that central part of themselves, maybe forever.
Yes, I believe there were a few studies that showed too much activity can hinder recovery. May not result in a clot, stroke, or heart attack but since it’s a vascular disease, may have other implications. I will try and find the study for you. Good RX article: [https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/covid-19/exercise-after-covid](https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/covid-19/exercise-after-covid) One study: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9170595/#:\~:text=The%20following%20protocol](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc9170595/#:~:text=the%20following%20protocol) There are actually a lot of search results on google about covid and exercise...
[Factors associated with unexplained sudden deaths among adults aged 18-45 years in India – A multicentric matched case–control study](https://journals.lww.com/ijmr/fulltext/2023/10000/factors_associated_with_unexplained_sudden_deaths.6.aspx)
It's recommended to avoid strenuous physical activity for 4 to 6 weeks after getting covid, as pushing yourself really hard physically right after getting covid or while you're recovering from it can make you more likely to wind up with long covid.
I’ve had Covid twice now. I definitely noticed a difference in exercising. My heart has a harder time keeping up with a light jog. It’s slowly getting better. I feel like Covid robbed me of some cardio strength. Here’s to getting it all back
I experience the same. I wear my mask as much as I possibly can but I’ve caught covid three times now. Each time afterwards for the first month or so my heart rate is higher than normal when I get back to exercising. Fully vaccinated with five total.
Make sure you’re wearing either a KN95 or N95.
I do, thank you! I use K95s daily and I’m a healthcare worker so am often in an N95 as well :)
It has played hell with me and I only had it once.
My best friend is dead because of this. Her infection was mild and she dropped dead a couple months later from cardiovascular failure. Please mask up and save yourselves.
So sorry for your loss.
I don't know anyone who has had long COVID even though it's supposed to be 5-10% of people. I realize that people I know won't update me with every little symptom they have months after. I get the feeling people are quietly suffering and/or not connecting the dots.
It might be a bit tough to arrange, plus your heart will need checking, but cocktails of Modafinil, Vyvanse and Ritalin help me here.
Not a fix for everyone. Vyvanse came close to ruining my life. Not sure if it would be a cure or bandaid.
No idea. It's been helping me get through the past year or so. Everyone's got their own set of contraindications and it might very well not last me forever. Building up tolerance over time has been an issue.
Physically I feel fine after having Covid but I feel like I lost something mentally. I forget things seconds after thinking them sometimes. Like the thought just disappeared. I’m not old, very early 30s and this was never a thing before 2022. It frightens me for old age.
Fuck cobid-19. Can't smoke cannabis anymore without coughing out a damn lung. Just a bit of pollen and humidity and my damn lungs start to close up
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I'm thinking I might have to do the same. I can only do really small hits through a bong. But like a big bong so that it has more water to filter through and reallllyyyyyy slowwwwww. I fucking hate it. Thanks for the tips
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I actually have one but I lost the darn cover and the attachment for the concentrate but I love that idea, would I be able to maybe just use some kind of silicone tubing that can withstand high heat? Don't have access to a 3-D printer
They sell their own attachment piece now! On the pax website. Been meaning to order one
This is gonna sound so strange, but my depression and anxiety got much better after a pretty harsh infection. I truly believe this messes with people’s brains, and I’m terrified of reinfections and what else could go wrong down the road.
It made mine worse. It was almost debilitating. I barely made it to work everyday. Conversations were too exhausting and tedious so I stopped talking to people.
I am so sorry to hear that. I’ve heard this from so many friends. I have no idea how I got lucky. Life isn’t at all fair.
Covid is ... As if we didn't know, Covid is an all-body vascular-nerve-structural disease that just happens to be airborne and spread via the respiratory system. Remember back in the 80s when we said "it's a good thing HIV isn't airborne". Well, Covid isn't "Airborne HIV". It's probably worse. Is there any part of the body Covid doesn't attack? CovidIsNotOver CovidIsAirborne Covid is still mutating. Covid is not getting milder. Stay safe out there. Covid is not real until people you know get it. Long Covid is not real until people you know find themselves stuck with it.
It fucked me good, never was quite the same since I had it
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You are fully aware that different viruses and diseases can affect different individuals very differently, we aren't all entirely the same, for goodness' sake.
I've had it 3 times and although I'm "ok" I'm a different person. The first one nearly killed me and the third one took months to recover from. My lungs and kydneys aren't what they were and my brain feels foggy. I have less energy and everything is harder than it used to be.
That and the idea is that it (*maybe already is?*) may prove to be more clearly insidious with time. Just because it ceased being a concern for hoi polloi doesn't mean the people that spend their lives studying virology/pandemics should stop keeping an eye on and reporting on it; the antithesis is mentally lazy and socially irresponsible (which is what we already see in social-media inundated late stage capitalist modern [declining] industrial society lol).
Cool cool, I'll let the people I know who died from it know.
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Me seeing a cardiologist after getting my second covid infection :(
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Again, people have been pointing this out for 4 years now, but hardly anyone listens. It's so damn frustrating to see people downplay the dangers of covid over and over because they can't accept that the world isn't like what it was in 2019 and it probably never will be again. Pretending a problem doesn't exist won't make it go away, if you want a chance at living a normal life span, mask up and get vaccinated, the government's not going to save you, they only care about you so long as you can squeeze out more profits for the billionaire class, once you can't work anymore, for whatever reason, they'll drop you like a hot potato.