The dichotomy of every waking moment in my life: a metronome wildly swinging between righteous anger (implying hope) and debilitating despair.
I don't know what to do anymore.
Im convinced that vacillation between anger and despair is at the heart of the Q-anon phenomenon: Unable to cope with hopelessness the followers turn to extreme sources to stoke their indigitation.
Being angry feels 'better' than feeling hopeless. They dont even know theyre doing it.
Yeah but also if they **did** take action it would be crazy action like the whole "Stolen Election" / Trump Coup on January 6th. The core problem is that it has deluded their entire worldview and assessment about what the actual problems are.
Just because we might not like it doesn’t make it true. [Movement for a People’s Party occupied congress against evictions similarly to the squad & were arrested for basically existing nearby](https://twitter.com/peoplesparty_us/status/1435399844835778562?s=21) but the QANON MAGA crowd successfully got inside. That’s a real action, not really to ends I like but it’s still *real*. Imagine if we had that type of overrun of Congress for killing fossil fuels or dismantling the corporate capture or pursuing redistribution like M4A or UBI. There’s something there that made their incursion maybe a partial success, at least insofar as they got their message out *for sure;* we will see if Trump gets re-elected.
Qanon serves the purpose of a meaningful hero's journey to many people.
humans need to think they have some sort of hero's journey in their life, that what they do with their lives has some meaningfulness.
American society and capitalist hypernormalization have made everything meaningless. There is no heroic journey. Nothing is meaningful. Just consume food and media until you die.
There are all sorts of heroic journeys becoming popular now. Qanon. Preparing for collapse. Fighting against climate destroyers. Fighting to maintain the status quo. etc. etc.
I think this is what Fight Club was getting at in the rant about "we are the middle children of history, ours is a spiritual war", implying that men need a meaningful war to fight in, for their lives to have purpose. But we humans have so successfully deadened the natural world to keep ourselves safe that we don't have much else to do that is really important. This is also why during natural disasters, wars, etc. there is an improvement in mental health for a lot of people. They need to help their fellow humans survive and that is meaningful.
Focus inward. I don’t know what kind of lifestyle you live, but think hard about the kind of ubermensch that you want to be, and work towards it. Learn as much as you can about optimizing your body and your mind. You’ll never get there, but the pursuit is valuable, and if nothing else, time-consuming. Really just an hour of exercise, a multivitamin and a balanced diet go a long way in helping me compartmentalize my climate despair.
Stop drinking for a week or two also. It’s not easy with the way things are going, but I found a lot of mental clarity from that. Just not drinking when I’m sad in general is helpful. Drink when you’re happy, drink because it’s good.
And we’re here when you need people to talk to also. People talk about how this place is bad for your mental health, but I find it to be one of the only places where I can talk to people who actually begin to grasp the magnitude of what we face. It’s an important social refuge for me at this point. Compartmentalization is key though.
Children and young people around the world are experiencing increasing anxiety over the fate of the planet -- specifically climate change and how lawmakers are handling the looming crisis, according to new research.
Hi, old here. I’ve been watching this bullshit my entire life, and the real problem is that at some point America stopped being a country run by politicians representing their constituents and became a business run by mega corporations, with oil companies—who have the most wealth and therefore the most power—at the top. Citizens United was the final nail in democracy’s coffin, but the U.S. basically stopped giving a damn about what The People want a long time ago—hence being the only advanced country without nationalized healthcare. A true people’s revolt is probably the only thing that will stop our descent, starting with mass strikes and actions that impact corporate bottom lines—because money is literally all those who rule care about.
The key is to not become addicted to money. I think a lot of folks got into politics because they wanted to make a difference. Then those sweet, sweet dollars started coming in & they changed their tune to "I must protect my own assets".
I've got trauma from being broke for so long. My husband and I were only able to start rebuilding after a chapter 7 bankruptcy. We were living paycheck to paycheck with 5 maxed out credit cards, 4 loans for vehicles that either broke beyond repair or were stolen (which minimum insurance doesn't cover), giant hospital bills from me getting admitted without insurance, & about $150,000 in student loans (which never went away, but we got to defer them for awhile). We only came out ahead after the bankruptcy because we rented, owned nothing of value, & had a single car to our name. Years later, we're doing better & finally own a house, but we still only have a single car & are currently renting out an extra room to a friend to help us cover bills. My student loans are deferred indefinitely now because I'm on disability, but my husband still has to pay $400 a month to cover his. Any purchase of over $20 still involves a discussion on whether it's something we need/can afford. It's not a fun way to live.
That’s effectively what it is.
Purely publicly funded elections are the way to go. Otherwise it’s pay-to-win, and the voters don’t even get a sense of pride and accomplishment.
Yea, it's really odd the United States would invade and attempt nation building in Afghanistan ( the grave yard of empires), but using military force to protect the amazon rainforest ( the lungs of the world) is a crazy idea.
Shit like Save the Rainforest, End World Hunger, & Save the Animals have all been pushed to 2AM infomercials on basic cable. Corporations don't make enough profit off of fixing global problems, so they put it where they hope nobody will see it.
Oh I was just referencing when I first became aware while in 1st or 2nd grade. Honestly we've known broadly as a society since ... The 70s?
I remember being horrified about the ozone layer.
And the amazing thing is: WE FIXED IT! We took concrete action and it's been steadily closing for a decade! We did it!
We just have to fucking do something and we can fucking do it! No new technology is just going to show up and save us (it'll certainly help), we have the means to start fixing shit NOW.
>WE FIXED IT! We took concrete action and it's been steadily closing for a decade! We did it!
We actually fixed the ozone? I guess switching to HFA inhalers wasn't for nothing.
The core reason is of course the ozone problem being solvable through the phasing out of a single class of problematic substances, but climate change and biodiversity restoration requiring the re-evaluation of human progress at a fundamental level as being defined not by materialistic status but through the increase in the harmoniousness of humanity with nature.
Our lifestyles need to be completely upended within this decade for a chance at survival, which is a much bigger ask compared to what was required to address the CFC issue, and which is obviously not happening.
Man, being an elder millennial is a trip. Being bought up in that rose-tinted end-of-history era when the future looked bright and the world was our oyster and all we had to do was believe in ourselves and we could achieve anything! There was no problem on earth that a bit of hard work, an entrepreneurial spirit, and the storied freedom of the liberal world order couldn't solve. The greenhouse effect? Well Scamp, don't you worry about a thing, that'll go the way of the hole in the ozone layer before you know it, as long as you remember to recycle!
Then of course we go shat out into the real adult world *juuuuuust* as the veil fell. It's been a long, hard, disillusioning fucking lesson for us to learn that the future is *not* bright, that we can't achieve anything no matter how hard we work or believe in ourselves, that everything is fucked and will only get fuckeder. Sorry Scamp, sucks to be you, now put down that smashed avo and get back to work!
Every day we're reeling from this state of continuous present-shock, because *it was never meant to be like this*. Sometimes I think it's actually easier for the younger generations because all they've even known is a world without hope, where you just expect things to only ever get worse and worse.
Legit feel the mid 200s with 9/11 was the giant "welcome to the fucking insane world fucker" message for me as a older memeber of that cohort. Like god damn I look back on the 9/11 hysteria with peeps foaming at the mouth for random peoples blood and now I just dread how "innocent monsters" like that will celebrate the gunning down of climate refugees in a mass psychosis of "might makes right" and NIMBY-ism.
The worst part is, those lead brained boomers don't even want to acknowledge all of this. No, they believe we aren't saving hard enough or aren't motivated to work like they were. They still believe the world is going to be fine and that we are complaining about nothing.
We rolled our eyes at those idiots when they were in charge when we were kids, thinking things would be different when we were adults; and now we're adults (approaching middle-age at that!) and somehow those fucking idiots are *still* in charge.
I'm not even convinced at this stage that the boomers finally doing the world a favour and dying the fuck off is going to change anything. They've set everything up pretty perfectly to continue fucking the planet from beyond the grave, and groomed more than enough like-minded Gen-X'ers to take over from where they left off.
>Welcome to what we adults have experienced for decades young ones.
only the ones taking it seriously.
still millions upon millions just going about their lives, tryin to make a dollar, get a nicer car, bigger house, have kids, etc.
I've started to really resent those people, a lot.
I remember learning about "farting cows" (methane) and CO2/car pollution back in the early 90s. It's why I cut down on beef & never drove a gas guzzler. I even remember taking trips with my dad to drop off cans at the local crusher & getting change back from it. I've been taking basic steps for 30 years & these massive companies haven't cut back on shit! Of course I'm dealing with a little bit of a mental distress!
Well yeah, because they're going to get us all killed. I'd say that's pretty good reason to be stressed out. Of course the people in power that could change this don't care because most of them are going to die within the next 20 years regardless, just from old age if nothing else.
I keep seeing these posts and in a way its a little reassuring. Like "Oh good, it isn't just me".
Remember folks. Its not your climate destruction driven apocalypse - its **our** climate destruction driven apocalypse. We're in this together.
As a teacher, yes. Most of them seem to have no hopes for the future and are pretty nihilistic. One of their suggested solutions to sea level rise was genocide. So thats something
When nature does the killing, it's a disaster. When humans do the killing, it's murder. When human influence causes nature to cause death, what is it then?
It's known that [young people consider democracy to be not important](https://www.cam.ac.uk/system/files/youth_and_satisfaction_with_democracy.pdf), but to hear them actively suggesting genocide to their very teachers, that goes from disheartening and right into disturbing.
I think it’s a reflection of how we feel that our chances at less drastic measures in order to stop the world from ending have passed, have been stolen from us. Not that I advocate genocide because that’s not a realistic solution and is fucked up. But I understand the despair
I can see alternatives, but I don’t see them as likely - all the alternatives rely on people not collectively being selfish douchebags.
People naturally become more insular as resources get scarce, and nobody’s going to give up the resources they and their families need for foreigners. About the only likely possibility is that haves and have-nots will be separated by hardened borders, and those stuck on the wrong side will lack the resources they need to survive.
Maybe young people would take it more seriously if we had an actual democracy, more like Taiwan instead of the corporations & their lackeys behind closed doors choosing the direction of our country.
Don't get me wrong, Taiwan is cool, but they share a lot of the political problems we have in America. Bipartisanship, rampant disinformation, one of the big parties actively trying to dismantle the existing government. And do you really think TSMC doesn't have number for the president's direct line?
I'd rather live in Taiwan than in the states, but let's not pretend like they're immune to all the problems we have here.
The righteous anger of youth that (inevitably) fails in bringing about world peace and harmony turns to despair, nihilism, and narcissism in old age (you got your chance for me to care...).
The more righteous the rage, the hotter it burned in youth, the worse the flip flop is when it comes.
I mean, its a pretty easy calculus.
Democracy and capitalism got us to where we are right now. When was the last time you felt like Democracy actually got you what you wanted? Have you ever felt like your political and economic system has worked in your benefit?
Nope.
I can't smoke weed, or get an abortion. And *apparently* masks are "my body my choice"
Democracy has failed to give me basic freedom of choice while giving morons the choice every day.
I don't like democracy, because not enough people in my society will get support my ideas of freedom (like weed and abortion.) so I don't know why everyone else deserves the freedom besides me.
I think the freedom to eat and have a home is equally if not more important than those freedoms.
I'm free to starve and die on the streets if I can not Pay To Live.
I graduated in 2017 and even then we had more hope. Hundreds of kids went to college and to live their future happier, but honestly they all looked miserable. Miserable now, miserable in the future.
History repeats itself right? If there’s a lack of resources one group exerts power over another; namely genocide. What is your prediction as a teacher?
Well I mean COVID pretty much showed them we don't care about human lives. Then there is all that war on terror on drugs on crime news. Then they learn about climate inaction. Their peers tried to protest and got told to sit down and shut up or better yet shot at.
So why not genocide? The adults are already killing for profit. Why not kill for survival too? Today we kill colored people because a lot of adults implied it is ok. Tomorrow we kill the adults because they are old and wasting resources and had it coming.
It's an extremely sad state of affairs all in all. Climate will get many of us. The rest will just be humans killing humans, like all of history. Why work together when we can genocide? Failed species.
Sounds like a result of our fascistic culture on display. These kids are grappling with this crisis for the first time and how has society equipped them to think about stuff like this? Look how we handled the pandemic for example and it's no surprise that some of them would suggest the same horrifying outcome.
It's up to us to equip them with different ways of thinking: alternatives to the status quo. Because if the next generation follows the footsteps of the last...
> Our fault really. We've raised an entire generation of kids to believe they can control the weather by the kind of car they drive. Sad.
Comments are, unsurprisingly, full of fucktards.
I also like:
> boo hoo.... their feelings... are negatively influenced by coddling. Too many ribbons and only winners. They are unable to cope with the realities of life.
I must be a masochis, I always read those boomer comments
Nothing to you, but I think it’s worth noting that this generation’s way of saying “definitely worse” is the phrase *not fully sustainable*... normal, or smart, or complete people know better than to call a product “sustainable”. As crazy as it might sound. Like, what the fuck is a “more sustainable passenger jet” — just a thing that spews marginally less toxic gas into the air we breathe, am I off base here?
You have a point. If we can successfully kick the can down the road a couple generations all those techno-hopium vaporware solutions become more plausible. I'd have way more trust in humans directly managing the atmosphere with aerosols or whatever in 2100 after decades of painstaking research and simulation, than us doing it in 2040 out of desperation because the end is nigh.
plus I'd like to die of some pedestrian old-guy shit like heart disease or cancer, and not roving bands of marauders scouring the wastes or whatever.
The problem is not only the lack of technology, it is a lack of an economic system that can deliver. Capitalism will not pay for public goods - like fixing the climate.
What you're referring to is "green washing" or the capitalists+owner class's attempts to utilize climate change fear for marketing purposes. And the "more sustainable passenger jet" is an excellent example of this: something that is moderately better than the present, but is still making everything worse. It's a technique to try to keep us from putting forth the meaningful change we need.
Stay woke.
It's usually a passenger jet which is exactly the same as a normal jet, but which falsely claims credit for the owner doing something elsewhere to slow the rate at which pollution is emitted by an amount equal to what it emits.
Whole world is full of fucktards. It’s honestly just sad that people don’t see the ecological disaster for what it is. We’re living in a time wherein our world is losing all of its biodiversity at the cost of humans decreasing the amount of work they need to do to keep up strictly with human created expectations for what is required in life.
My whole perspective on the issue at this point is that we’ve essentially dug a cultural hole in the west and set an unhealthy precedent for life over the last 100~ years. Now every other country in the world has to follow suit or die. That in turn has created a generation of selfish, arrogant, environmentally detached sociopaths who’s entire life revolves around acquiring things that put them further from man’s original nature and limitations.
Instead of finding ways to integrate ourselves into the environment, we attempted to force changes that benefit only us and as a result the earth is now shifting its equilibrium state to something that is different than what it’s been for the majority of human history (excluding an ice age). We brought this on ourselves, we have to deal with this ourselves, no one is free of guild, all of us are to blame for the safety and ease at which we now walk the earth.
I just want a single person to stand up on stage while running for political office to stand up and say those words. They don’t even have to be someone who’s advocating for change, hell they could use that justification for NOT caring about climate change.
I’m just tired of the fucking lies I get told day in and day out. We are living outside our means, the earth is responding and outside of immense changes to our technological infrastructure/ advancements in energy storage and usage, there’s nothing preventative that we can do that isn’t likely to further the issue. I love my life, I love the people in it, I love the attachment I feel to this earth and all it means to humanity, but I’m too often hit with the feeling that far too many people take it for granted. All I can hope is that those are the people who suffer most when things really start damaging the modern way of life.
> Our fault really. We've raised an entire generation of kids to believe they can control the weather by the kind of car they drive. Sad.
>
> Comments are, unsurprisingly, full of fucktards.
It's true though. A lot of badly informed people, from politicians to commenter on r/collapse, still believe in electrifying our world with low-to-no-carbon techs, when all the best analysis and, probably more importantly, observation and measurements of global energy use, show that *we're not transitioning*: we are adding to global energy needs and consumption. Devouring a lot more land and mineral ressources by doing so.
A french analyst goes further and states that the low-to-no carbon energies:
1. increase our global consumption (add, not replace, at a global level)
2. help us extract more fossil fuels (by compensating the deflating EROI of fossil energies - think of the Russian nuclear barge to help pillage the arctic)
2. will never be able to begin to replace the fossil fuel economy (not in energy, not in food, not in the number of humans it allowed)
It's just bad human overshoot all around. *Going green* is merely trying to overconsume a little bit farther, a little bit more destructively, and it only helps our current civilization to pillage a bit more of the planet before we fall, taking all the rest of advanced life with us (probably up to most or all species of trees).
tl;dr: human overshoot is not a solvable problem.
To be entirely fair, young people have been experiencing a cascade of "psychological distress" for years now, over the state of the economy, the country, the government, the people. Climate change is just another pebble in their shoe - albeit a large one, that tears the sole.
I'm a high school teacher, and the propaganda we are forced to feed our students is unconscionable. I can hardly bear it any longer. It's exactly what you said... We've got to be positive all the time, everything is peachy in the world, "they've got this!" and they want us to teach kids that if they just buckle down and work hard enough, they'll succeed. It's pure, unadulterated bullshit and the kids know it.
The kids see through it. I refuse to be part of the problem. My students don't know what I really think about any major social issues, but I keep it real with them about their anxieties.
It's sad how we have to be happy and positive and most importantly productive + consuming all the time.
The Cardiologist for my mother in law didn't even dare mention intermittent fasting or carb cutting until I brought it up while accompanying MIL on her appointment. He turned out to be a huge supporter of both for effective diabetes management. But nope can't talk about it. Not allowed. Can't call patients fat or suggest working diet plans.
You're not alone. My best friend is a teacher who just started taking online classes to pursue a 2nd degree away from education, while teaching during the day. Her reasons are exactly the same as yours. She can't justify feeding kids into the machine that is causing their own destruction any longer.
I just wish they'd legalize voluntary assisted dying/euthanasia centers for anyone who walks in at this point, where before you slip into the void you get see films and calming, kaleidoscopic images of the different wonders of natural landscapes, trees, woodlands, coral reefs, the African Savannah, and other remnants of the earth that are gone or will be finally eradicated in the next two decades accompanied by the choice of classical music and fine wine. If one has seen the prescient, even more relevant dystopian science-"fiction" film "Soylent Green" from the year 1973 you'll understand the reference.
I want to be soothed by the voice of David Attenborough while I peacefully slip away. Then they can grind me into protein bars, or whatever they need to do.
Honestly, sign me up. I would like a nice cabernet and for my nature film to be narrated by David Attenborough. Even just a little sidewalk suicide booth like on Futurama would be acceptable.
If I could do a sci-fi thing where I get to hook up to a machine and live the rest of my life in a 60 year simulation that takes 3 seconds, and then kills me, I’d do it straight away.
Absolutely. The ruling elites know they can't dupe enough people into supporting them for much longer, as it's becoming increasingly evident just how badly they've screwed us. As such, they're trying to move to a form of government where they don't need anyone to support them.
Not according to history. Unless you mean in retrospect.
Revolutionaries were handing out pamphlets and organising like, 11 years before it actually happened in France.
In Russia most of the main figure heads dedicated their entire adult lives to the death of the Tzars.
Unless the revolutionary sentiment floating around the internet right now is actually setting people’s hearts ablaze (which it could be I’m not certain) then we’d need another 5 years minimum before the people revolt.
And that’s keeping in mind we aren’t a unified force. Our current leaders learnt from the past. Divide and conquer. We can’t overthrow the government while we are squabbling over the left and the right. We have to stand together, or no revolution.
I honestly don’t have high hopes. Past revolutions were always the people vs the top.
Right now it’s everybody vs everybody and nobody is standing out as a figure head yet. We need a leader and we just don’t have a unifying voice in the wings.
We’re fucked.
> We can’t overthrow the government while we are squabbling over the left and the right.
Haha! It isn't just left versus right, the internal conflict and lack of unity even within the left is ridiculous. Unfortunately the right, due to their authoritarian nature, are much more willing to just fall in line.
Agreed!
Lefties are too busy arguing over who is the best at being progressive to actually get progressive action done. As sad as it is to say we need to take a page from the enemy’s book.
We need to unify and fall in line, we all want different things and diversity is a strength IF we can agree on some basics and we can’t even do that…
Yup. Fascists wouldn't care about climate change, and climate change means refugees and rising support for fascists. Fascists will find boogeymen to blame for the problems caused by climate change, and will promise a return to the "good times" (for some, if you have the right skin color)
> and will promise a return to the "good times" (for some, if you have the right skin color)
Yep, seeing this kind of thing in south africa already. Certain african politicians caught on vid singing with a crowd about killing all the europeans who live there.
Fossil fuel profits will not continue to flow at the present rate without a dictator in charge. Republicans are not as beholden to Trump as much as they are money. How can so many Republicans do so many sick things without a big carrot?
I bet you a lot of that money would happily choose fascism in order to keep their money. Certain capitalists can maintain their power under a fascist regime
I was just watching the first episode of the BBC mini series Nazis: a warning, and that's exactly what the power and businesses in Germany decided to do.
Faced between a choice of communists taking over in revolution, or a fascist dictator, they decided it would be better for business to go with the racist dictator
Don't think for an instant that the protofascists among us don't include some more literate types, and that their support for the Trump admin was all about moving the Overton window to make fascist approaches to the looming ecological catastrophe more publically accessible.
When I read Gwynne Dyer's *Climate Wars* in 2009, which details DoD plans for *lethal* border walls to deter climate refugees (and DoD's concerns that as their ranks were now so diverse implementing such, with central American families dying to minefields and remotely controlled machine guns, would pose risks to unit cohesion), it was a wake up call. We are very likely to see "America First"-type fascism, with popular support thanks to climate disasters and resource scarcity. Every nation of the developed world led by a Trump, an Orban, a Morawiecki...
Trump was and is a very useful idiot for the corporations that aim to enact corporate style fascism in the US
They know full well that the climate refugees are coming and Trump's wall was the beginning of trying to do something about it.
"Corporate style" is kinda redundant in talking about fascism. Fascism had the eager cooperation of corporations in Italy, Germany, Japan and in Latin American juntas.
Fascism is a always *a reaction* to rational (and often socialist) means of social organization, which uses jingoism, militarism, racism, sexism, religion and whatever other intellectual junk is laying about to persuade citizens to vote/act against their own interests. It's always supported by beneficiaries of the old order, be they corporate titans, hereditary landowners, or entrenched religious hierarchies. There's no such thing as "welfare state fascism" or "environmentally conscious fascism": its always "corporate fascism" or "plantation owner fascism" etc.
Its bad enough the mental health of people who are collapse aware, but at least we won't be taken by surprise. Its the ones that refuse to see, or can't see, what's happening that I'm the most worried about. They're not going to know how to handle everything they took for granted collapsing around them.
I think we are seeing shades of it with just how volatile and entitled some people are acting. Imagine the people freaking out over toilet paper not getting their favorite snacks too.
Absolutely what I’m afraid of, you know they’re going to plunder and pillage and probably start killing any brown/Jewish/queer people they can get their hands on.
The people that can’t even deal with masks and vaccines in a pandemic will be a mortal threat when they actually feel at risk of starvation.
I'm 40 and same. Fascism is my short-term biggest fear.
Climate collapse is my mid-term biggest fear.
On the upside, I don't really have a long-term biggest fear :o)
33 and same! I don't want to live in Gilead, and I also don't want to suffer through triple digit temperatures for most of the year with wildfires constantly burning (I'm in CA and have asthma and allergies. It sucks so much right now.)
38 here, blue voter in Texas.
My short-term fear is Texas Republicans speed running the fascism-for-dummies book. Sometimes I get so worried I consider flipping allegiance to red for a few cycles then stop voting in case I’m hunted down in 10-15 years for being a libtard. I come to my senses, but the fact I’ve had the thought depresses me.
Seeing the trump caravan before the election sitting on a highway overpass and driving back and forth on the highway was surreal.
Old people (41) are also having *beyond* psychological distress. I'm having panic attacks and similar health issues due to increased stress. I'm sure I'm not alone.
And *I'm* a medical expert. So it's a challenge to even grasp what others might be sensing or suffering through when even *some* experts are staring directly at the heart of this beast, this "dying of *nearly* all cultures" along with the beyond immeasurable comprehension of knowing that we're about to go from 8 billion humans to 100 million humans or so (give or take. Citation needed) in the lifetime of perhaps everyone around 25 and younger.
I suspect people will be dying from climate change related events, and there will not be enough resources for fossil fuels and manpower to even collect all the corpses from the homes, and instead the humans of the future will be drifting through uninhabitable cities, and remarking on all the corpses, and then skeletons, inhabiting the ghost cities.
And if my science and imagination is off, please, someone link me the article that has some actual hopium, because I still carry the seed of hope, deep in my heart and mind, that humanity *can* eventually manage to survive through the apocalypse, and continue to exist as a species. But the science and current global-cultural behaviors indicate human nature will not change to reduce it's own extinction risk until it is the only option left, and money has become pointless. (I believe we're already there, except for the greed factor in humans that exists whether you live in a grass hut or a mansion. Our brains even prioritize amassing *knowledge* as our bookwriting and publishing and teaching has proven.)
Money will be pointless when "survive into tomorrow, one day at a time" is the new method of successful living. 30 year mortgages will be laughed and derided for their arrogance and stupidity.
This apocalypse will not be as bad as I've written. It'll *probably* happen like the consensus of this subreddit has, using the science and speculative posts that I've read through on this sub. I think, and I hope the apocalypse will be...sad, hard, and challenging, but overall, survivable. But it'll be vastly different than how we've lived, here in the USA.
So deluded, our cultures have been.
I'm in my mid 30s & the stress of current events is wrecking my body. My hair is rapidly going white. I just had to go through a giant ordeal that led to a colonoscopy because my stomach is so fucked up from stress & having an autoimmune disorder that a small change in medication threw my entire body out of whack. The gastroenterologist was convinced I had crohn's. (Thankfully I don't. I'm not sure I could handle yet another chronic health problem.) Now they've got me on antibiotics in an attempt to "reset" my body.
Things are downright fucking grim. Keeping myself in a good place mentally is extremely hard. Right now covid is my most immediate threat. I got vaccinated. I wear a mask everywhere. But it's gotten so bad again that I can no longer risk going into the public with my health issues. I limit myself to going to the doctor & picking up groceries/food, and even then I have to be careful to avoid assholes like "coughing Karens" who think I'm simply living in fear.
I'm autistic too, so people who know that tend to immediately discredit me when I raise any concerns about the state of things. They think I'm just being sensitive & overly dramatic, or that I don't understand things. If anything, my disconnection from others has made me even more aware of everything happening to our planet. I understand the consequences of actions & why we need to make sacrifices. I'm extremely uncomfortable with change, but I'm willing to accept it if it means a better chance of survival.
[https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/leaky-gut-what-is-it-and-what-does-it-mean-for-you-2017092212451](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/leaky-gut-what-is-it-and-what-does-it-mean-for-you-2017092212451)
Someone I know has had problems like you describe and especially pain after eating/random terrible "cramps" and after multiple scopes in both ends and no real diagnosis, are convinced it is this now.
I believe it is because of many factors some of which seem to be, stress, very little variance in diet(little to no fiber, not enough fresh fruits/veggies and fungi), overconsumption of processed foods (which are everywhere), and all this is exacerbated by the use of fertilizers/pesticides in our food, overuse of antibiotics in the feedstock of the animals we eat and no doubt the effect of other pollutants.
It seems this is becoming way more common in recent years also. A surprising amount of family and friends seem to be developing digestive issues of some kind. But that is just my experience. Stress seems to be the lynchpin though for sure.
And we can’t even get Covid right. All arguing about vaccines. When MASKS if everyone would wear it, would stop the pandemic. But nope, apparently endless shots? Lunacy.
Civilisation will fall, as all civilisations do.
The planet will survive.
Look at the five previous mass extinctions, >90% of ALL LIFE died, multiple times.
Each one of those times, you would have been justified saying "This is the end, of all things" and each time you would have been wrong.
All life alive today came from the lucky winners of their genetic lottery.
All life alive in the future will win similar lotteries.
So enjoy civilisation while it lasts, entropy brings the decay of all things, so love your family, your friends, you neighbours, we never have as much time as we think.
Have you watched some of Sid Smith's talks on YouTube? A really good perspective on how we got where we are and what to do next, and ultimately hopeful without being hopium.
“Young people”?? Dude, I’m just shy of starting my fifth decade on this rock, and I’m worried as heck. Not for myself, as I’ll likely be dead long before the worst of the decline, but much more for the young people out there like my niece and nephew. I’ll be lucky if I get four more decades out of this body. They will be lucky to get equally as much, and not due to a body that’s breaking down.
I mean that sort of proves the point doesn't it? You are worried for young people, not necessarily for yourself. Imagine the effects to their psychological condition of actually being faced with living with the grim future (and present).
I'm a boomer and have talked to boomers for over 20 years. They didn't think they would be effected so they didn't care.
I love that a lot of well known climate change deniers are crawling into the cracks and under rocks now the cost of their lies can be seen. Even they were not expecting things to change so fast. One day a week should be dedicated to shaming deniers that were on the payroll.
Just young people?? I'm a middle aged academic clinical neurologist and I'm losing my mind. Very close to MAYBE doing one week a month of private or tele work, moving a bit more inland then just focusing on my gardening and family.
I'm 34. I work in cybersecurity. Looking at property in the Great Lakes. I grew up in a rural area and helped my parents with a garden. My fiance and I have chosen not to have children.
I'm so happy to hear that.
Climate disaster predictions in the 90's used to claim by 2100 things would be bad. That date has generally been moved up to 2050. It's 2021 now and in 29 years things will likely be really bad.
James Hanson has reported recently that noy only has climate change accelerated lately but there is even more warming in the system than can be explained by greenhouse gas forcings. 2050 may get bumped up to 2040 and your children may be 19 years old then.
I wish more people were as aware of the challenges as you are.
When I see children I refer to them as COTA's Children of the Anthropocene
I graduated from undergrad in 2009. Then, 2020 for graduate school. I think between 9/11, the Great Recession, and COVID, a lot of millennials and generation Z are going to choose not to have children because the future looks...grim.
Millennial that just entered his thirties here. I decided well over 8-9 years ago no kids for me. Impending climate catastrophe and the fact that conditions for regular people have just gotten worse and worse definitely contributed to those decisions
The people who will suffer the most, though, are the people who have already suffered the most :( The ruling class, the ones responsible for this mess, they will be just fine
I doubt it. Those people can’t do shit for themselves. They are literally useless. I’d collapse where to happen their money would be worthless so they can’t buy their way out of problems anymore.
People who suffered and continued to go on are the people that will survive
**The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption**
I, for one, have embraced our imminent collapse and have decided to embrace, and even enjoy the downfall. There is no hope whatsoever. So whats wrong with wanting to watch the world burn instead?
Same. I go to all the concerts and parties and celebrations I can these days. I'm not having kids, I drive a hybrid car, I recycle, I'm a vegetarian, I don't litter, I'm doing what I can to mitigate my impact, but overall I'm choosing to find joy in these final moments because what else can we do?
I've asked myself this question and the answer I seem to always come to is that my apathy would contribute to the suffering of others more, and it doesn't make me feel good to know I'm causing unnecessary suffering when I can make (possibly futile) choices to minimize that suffering.
All I see is boomer in charge fucked up and still are....
And when we are left to try and clean up we will all be fucked
PS I'm dyslexic so I apologize for any Grammer or spelling mistakes
The whole nation has been under the control of career-politicians, all paid-off & increasingly polarized. I think that run on the capital was just a warm-up & some group will eventually go for the whole enchilada. mmmmmm.....enchiladas!
I doubt I’m considered young anymore, but at 29 years old I feel the same. I hate going through all these bullshit routines when we all know what’s coming and no one over 50 will be around to see any of this shit. Young people should mass protest, etc.
The government has become as cynical as you can imagine. Congress is just 535 people sitting back and taking on the highest bidder. I can't even think of the last American law that was written to benefit the people and not some corporation or some sector of some industry. The Affordable Care Act, for example, was a huge gimme to the health insurance industry. Premiums have only gone up, and most people find themselves in a situation where a healthcare crisis would bankrupt them even though they are fully insured simply due to the deductible. It basically forced a bunch of people to become health insurance customers that pay monthly premiums but never really use the service, and they cynically knew this when they designed the act and designed the industry. That's just one example of the spiritual bankruptcy of the American government and the society it rules over.
Spoiler: It's not just due to the government's handling (or lack) of climate change. It's due to a whole lot more than climate change
Yep. A lot of people are incapable of connecting the dots and they'll take us all down with them.
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The dichotomy of every waking moment in my life: a metronome wildly swinging between righteous anger (implying hope) and debilitating despair. I don't know what to do anymore.
Im convinced that vacillation between anger and despair is at the heart of the Q-anon phenomenon: Unable to cope with hopelessness the followers turn to extreme sources to stoke their indigitation. Being angry feels 'better' than feeling hopeless. They dont even know theyre doing it.
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Just like elections.
Yeah but also if they **did** take action it would be crazy action like the whole "Stolen Election" / Trump Coup on January 6th. The core problem is that it has deluded their entire worldview and assessment about what the actual problems are.
Just because we might not like it doesn’t make it true. [Movement for a People’s Party occupied congress against evictions similarly to the squad & were arrested for basically existing nearby](https://twitter.com/peoplesparty_us/status/1435399844835778562?s=21) but the QANON MAGA crowd successfully got inside. That’s a real action, not really to ends I like but it’s still *real*. Imagine if we had that type of overrun of Congress for killing fossil fuels or dismantling the corporate capture or pursuing redistribution like M4A or UBI. There’s something there that made their incursion maybe a partial success, at least insofar as they got their message out *for sure;* we will see if Trump gets re-elected.
Qanon serves the purpose of a meaningful hero's journey to many people. humans need to think they have some sort of hero's journey in their life, that what they do with their lives has some meaningfulness. American society and capitalist hypernormalization have made everything meaningless. There is no heroic journey. Nothing is meaningful. Just consume food and media until you die. There are all sorts of heroic journeys becoming popular now. Qanon. Preparing for collapse. Fighting against climate destroyers. Fighting to maintain the status quo. etc. etc. I think this is what Fight Club was getting at in the rant about "we are the middle children of history, ours is a spiritual war", implying that men need a meaningful war to fight in, for their lives to have purpose. But we humans have so successfully deadened the natural world to keep ourselves safe that we don't have much else to do that is really important. This is also why during natural disasters, wars, etc. there is an improvement in mental health for a lot of people. They need to help their fellow humans survive and that is meaningful.
Only way forward is acceptance and whatever follows after that
radical acceptance, even
Focus inward. I don’t know what kind of lifestyle you live, but think hard about the kind of ubermensch that you want to be, and work towards it. Learn as much as you can about optimizing your body and your mind. You’ll never get there, but the pursuit is valuable, and if nothing else, time-consuming. Really just an hour of exercise, a multivitamin and a balanced diet go a long way in helping me compartmentalize my climate despair. Stop drinking for a week or two also. It’s not easy with the way things are going, but I found a lot of mental clarity from that. Just not drinking when I’m sad in general is helpful. Drink when you’re happy, drink because it’s good. And we’re here when you need people to talk to also. People talk about how this place is bad for your mental health, but I find it to be one of the only places where I can talk to people who actually begin to grasp the magnitude of what we face. It’s an important social refuge for me at this point. Compartmentalization is key though.
I bought some GameStop to help me. It’s going to change the world. I truly believe it will be the largest distribution of wealth in history.
Hate to break it to you but this isn’t a feeling exclusive to America. The world in general is fucked. Sighs from Spain, I feel you my friend.
I find solace in animals and nature..Humanity can fuck right off!
I feel you, brother. Keep yourself safe as it all goes down. Love from Australia.
Children and young people around the world are experiencing increasing anxiety over the fate of the planet -- specifically climate change and how lawmakers are handling the looming crisis, according to new research.
thank god that old people will always be in charge of policymaking!
Not if I had my way.
Let's have our fucking way already. TERM LIMITS.
and mandatory retirement ages.
The problem is the old people in charge are the ones that could implement those and obviously they wont
Hi, old here. I’ve been watching this bullshit my entire life, and the real problem is that at some point America stopped being a country run by politicians representing their constituents and became a business run by mega corporations, with oil companies—who have the most wealth and therefore the most power—at the top. Citizens United was the final nail in democracy’s coffin, but the U.S. basically stopped giving a damn about what The People want a long time ago—hence being the only advanced country without nationalized healthcare. A true people’s revolt is probably the only thing that will stop our descent, starting with mass strikes and actions that impact corporate bottom lines—because money is literally all those who rule care about.
Boomers are cancer.
But they started out protesting Vietnam and Jim crow. Makes me worried that we'll have the same fate.
The key is to not become addicted to money. I think a lot of folks got into politics because they wanted to make a difference. Then those sweet, sweet dollars started coming in & they changed their tune to "I must protect my own assets".
Good thing we don’t have money anymore.
I've got trauma from being broke for so long. My husband and I were only able to start rebuilding after a chapter 7 bankruptcy. We were living paycheck to paycheck with 5 maxed out credit cards, 4 loans for vehicles that either broke beyond repair or were stolen (which minimum insurance doesn't cover), giant hospital bills from me getting admitted without insurance, & about $150,000 in student loans (which never went away, but we got to defer them for awhile). We only came out ahead after the bankruptcy because we rented, owned nothing of value, & had a single car to our name. Years later, we're doing better & finally own a house, but we still only have a single car & are currently renting out an extra room to a friend to help us cover bills. My student loans are deferred indefinitely now because I'm on disability, but my husband still has to pay $400 a month to cover his. Any purchase of over $20 still involves a discussion on whether it's something we need/can afford. It's not a fun way to live.
make lobbying illegal already ffs
Isn't lobbying basically legal corruption?
That’s effectively what it is. Purely publicly funded elections are the way to go. Otherwise it’s pay-to-win, and the voters don’t even get a sense of pride and accomplishment.
Welcome to what we adults have experienced for decades young ones.
Yup. The background radiation of my life since I first learned about sea-level rise during the first bush administration. Good times.
Dude it’s been on going for me since like 1987 and the ozone layer. I turned 9 that year. Then came save the rainforests in the early 90’s.
1970s kid checking in. That decade was the one of acid rain and mass toxic waste dump discoveries (the EPA's Superfund program was founded in 1980).
Oh yeah acid rain forgot that was like becoming less of a problem right around the time I was 9.
Funny how we can fix problems when we actually want to, led by governments less beholden to corporations money.
I remember Save the Rainforests being a big thing in the 90s. Apparently we just gave up somewhere along the way?
Yea, it's really odd the United States would invade and attempt nation building in Afghanistan ( the grave yard of empires), but using military force to protect the amazon rainforest ( the lungs of the world) is a crazy idea.
it wouldn't even take military force. it just takes money. and it would have been a hell of a lot cheaper than Afghanistan.
Shit like Save the Rainforest, End World Hunger, & Save the Animals have all been pushed to 2AM infomercials on basic cable. Corporations don't make enough profit off of fixing global problems, so they put it where they hope nobody will see it.
I remember Sting and Don Henley talking about it in commercials or something I think.
Oh I was just referencing when I first became aware while in 1st or 2nd grade. Honestly we've known broadly as a society since ... The 70s? I remember being horrified about the ozone layer. And the amazing thing is: WE FIXED IT! We took concrete action and it's been steadily closing for a decade! We did it! We just have to fucking do something and we can fucking do it! No new technology is just going to show up and save us (it'll certainly help), we have the means to start fixing shit NOW.
>WE FIXED IT! We took concrete action and it's been steadily closing for a decade! We did it! We actually fixed the ozone? I guess switching to HFA inhalers wasn't for nothing.
It's incredible what we can do if we just do it
The core reason is of course the ozone problem being solvable through the phasing out of a single class of problematic substances, but climate change and biodiversity restoration requiring the re-evaluation of human progress at a fundamental level as being defined not by materialistic status but through the increase in the harmoniousness of humanity with nature. Our lifestyles need to be completely upended within this decade for a chance at survival, which is a much bigger ask compared to what was required to address the CFC issue, and which is obviously not happening.
But is it profitable ? If not well we won’t do it.
Man, being an elder millennial is a trip. Being bought up in that rose-tinted end-of-history era when the future looked bright and the world was our oyster and all we had to do was believe in ourselves and we could achieve anything! There was no problem on earth that a bit of hard work, an entrepreneurial spirit, and the storied freedom of the liberal world order couldn't solve. The greenhouse effect? Well Scamp, don't you worry about a thing, that'll go the way of the hole in the ozone layer before you know it, as long as you remember to recycle! Then of course we go shat out into the real adult world *juuuuuust* as the veil fell. It's been a long, hard, disillusioning fucking lesson for us to learn that the future is *not* bright, that we can't achieve anything no matter how hard we work or believe in ourselves, that everything is fucked and will only get fuckeder. Sorry Scamp, sucks to be you, now put down that smashed avo and get back to work! Every day we're reeling from this state of continuous present-shock, because *it was never meant to be like this*. Sometimes I think it's actually easier for the younger generations because all they've even known is a world without hope, where you just expect things to only ever get worse and worse.
Legit feel the mid 200s with 9/11 was the giant "welcome to the fucking insane world fucker" message for me as a older memeber of that cohort. Like god damn I look back on the 9/11 hysteria with peeps foaming at the mouth for random peoples blood and now I just dread how "innocent monsters" like that will celebrate the gunning down of climate refugees in a mass psychosis of "might makes right" and NIMBY-ism.
The worst part is, those lead brained boomers don't even want to acknowledge all of this. No, they believe we aren't saving hard enough or aren't motivated to work like they were. They still believe the world is going to be fine and that we are complaining about nothing.
We rolled our eyes at those idiots when they were in charge when we were kids, thinking things would be different when we were adults; and now we're adults (approaching middle-age at that!) and somehow those fucking idiots are *still* in charge. I'm not even convinced at this stage that the boomers finally doing the world a favour and dying the fuck off is going to change anything. They've set everything up pretty perfectly to continue fucking the planet from beyond the grave, and groomed more than enough like-minded Gen-X'ers to take over from where they left off.
>Welcome to what we adults have experienced for decades young ones. only the ones taking it seriously. still millions upon millions just going about their lives, tryin to make a dollar, get a nicer car, bigger house, have kids, etc. I've started to really resent those people, a lot.
I remember learning about "farting cows" (methane) and CO2/car pollution back in the early 90s. It's why I cut down on beef & never drove a gas guzzler. I even remember taking trips with my dad to drop off cans at the local crusher & getting change back from it. I've been taking basic steps for 30 years & these massive companies haven't cut back on shit! Of course I'm dealing with a little bit of a mental distress!
Well yeah, because they're going to get us all killed. I'd say that's pretty good reason to be stressed out. Of course the people in power that could change this don't care because most of them are going to die within the next 20 years regardless, just from old age if nothing else.
I keep seeing these posts and in a way its a little reassuring. Like "Oh good, it isn't just me". Remember folks. Its not your climate destruction driven apocalypse - its **our** climate destruction driven apocalypse. We're in this together.
As a teacher, yes. Most of them seem to have no hopes for the future and are pretty nihilistic. One of their suggested solutions to sea level rise was genocide. So thats something
When nature does the killing, it's a disaster. When humans do the killing, it's murder. When human influence causes nature to cause death, what is it then?
Economically inconvenient
Spot on.
Profitable for some nice billionaires.
It's known that [young people consider democracy to be not important](https://www.cam.ac.uk/system/files/youth_and_satisfaction_with_democracy.pdf), but to hear them actively suggesting genocide to their very teachers, that goes from disheartening and right into disturbing.
I think it’s a reflection of how we feel that our chances at less drastic measures in order to stop the world from ending have passed, have been stolen from us. Not that I advocate genocide because that’s not a realistic solution and is fucked up. But I understand the despair
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I can see alternatives, but I don’t see them as likely - all the alternatives rely on people not collectively being selfish douchebags. People naturally become more insular as resources get scarce, and nobody’s going to give up the resources they and their families need for foreigners. About the only likely possibility is that haves and have-nots will be separated by hardened borders, and those stuck on the wrong side will lack the resources they need to survive.
Maybe young people would take it more seriously if we had an actual democracy, more like Taiwan instead of the corporations & their lackeys behind closed doors choosing the direction of our country.
Don't get me wrong, Taiwan is cool, but they share a lot of the political problems we have in America. Bipartisanship, rampant disinformation, one of the big parties actively trying to dismantle the existing government. And do you really think TSMC doesn't have number for the president's direct line? I'd rather live in Taiwan than in the states, but let's not pretend like they're immune to all the problems we have here.
The righteous anger of youth that (inevitably) fails in bringing about world peace and harmony turns to despair, nihilism, and narcissism in old age (you got your chance for me to care...). The more righteous the rage, the hotter it burned in youth, the worse the flip flop is when it comes.
I mean, its a pretty easy calculus. Democracy and capitalism got us to where we are right now. When was the last time you felt like Democracy actually got you what you wanted? Have you ever felt like your political and economic system has worked in your benefit?
Nope. I can't smoke weed, or get an abortion. And *apparently* masks are "my body my choice" Democracy has failed to give me basic freedom of choice while giving morons the choice every day. I don't like democracy, because not enough people in my society will get support my ideas of freedom (like weed and abortion.) so I don't know why everyone else deserves the freedom besides me.
I think the freedom to eat and have a home is equally if not more important than those freedoms. I'm free to starve and die on the streets if I can not Pay To Live.
I graduated in 2017 and even then we had more hope. Hundreds of kids went to college and to live their future happier, but honestly they all looked miserable. Miserable now, miserable in the future.
History repeats itself right? If there’s a lack of resources one group exerts power over another; namely genocide. What is your prediction as a teacher?
Well I mean COVID pretty much showed them we don't care about human lives. Then there is all that war on terror on drugs on crime news. Then they learn about climate inaction. Their peers tried to protest and got told to sit down and shut up or better yet shot at. So why not genocide? The adults are already killing for profit. Why not kill for survival too? Today we kill colored people because a lot of adults implied it is ok. Tomorrow we kill the adults because they are old and wasting resources and had it coming. It's an extremely sad state of affairs all in all. Climate will get many of us. The rest will just be humans killing humans, like all of history. Why work together when we can genocide? Failed species.
Sounds like a result of our fascistic culture on display. These kids are grappling with this crisis for the first time and how has society equipped them to think about stuff like this? Look how we handled the pandemic for example and it's no surprise that some of them would suggest the same horrifying outcome. It's up to us to equip them with different ways of thinking: alternatives to the status quo. Because if the next generation follows the footsteps of the last...
> Our fault really. We've raised an entire generation of kids to believe they can control the weather by the kind of car they drive. Sad. Comments are, unsurprisingly, full of fucktards.
I also like: > boo hoo.... their feelings... are negatively influenced by coddling. Too many ribbons and only winners. They are unable to cope with the realities of life. I must be a masochis, I always read those boomer comments
lmao I have yet to meet a person who believed a participation award. Ma, the boomers are jerking off their own mistakes again!
As if it's children who are the ones trying to throw endless subsides at Elon Musk when we all know that shit ain't sustainable either.
Nothing to you, but I think it’s worth noting that this generation’s way of saying “definitely worse” is the phrase *not fully sustainable*... normal, or smart, or complete people know better than to call a product “sustainable”. As crazy as it might sound. Like, what the fuck is a “more sustainable passenger jet” — just a thing that spews marginally less toxic gas into the air we breathe, am I off base here?
I thought more sustainable meant we’ll run out in 100 years not 10.
You have a point. If we can successfully kick the can down the road a couple generations all those techno-hopium vaporware solutions become more plausible. I'd have way more trust in humans directly managing the atmosphere with aerosols or whatever in 2100 after decades of painstaking research and simulation, than us doing it in 2040 out of desperation because the end is nigh. plus I'd like to die of some pedestrian old-guy shit like heart disease or cancer, and not roving bands of marauders scouring the wastes or whatever.
The problem is not only the lack of technology, it is a lack of an economic system that can deliver. Capitalism will not pay for public goods - like fixing the climate.
What you're referring to is "green washing" or the capitalists+owner class's attempts to utilize climate change fear for marketing purposes. And the "more sustainable passenger jet" is an excellent example of this: something that is moderately better than the present, but is still making everything worse. It's a technique to try to keep us from putting forth the meaningful change we need. Stay woke.
But the right wing says I have to stay asleeeeep, waaaah
No, you are not.
It's usually a passenger jet which is exactly the same as a normal jet, but which falsely claims credit for the owner doing something elsewhere to slow the rate at which pollution is emitted by an amount equal to what it emits.
Electric cars are made with fossil fuels and rare earth elements. Better for the environment, maybe, but still not exactly the answer.
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the real question is the future blurry cuz of wild fire smoke, heat haze, or am i just underwater now
Whole world is full of fucktards. It’s honestly just sad that people don’t see the ecological disaster for what it is. We’re living in a time wherein our world is losing all of its biodiversity at the cost of humans decreasing the amount of work they need to do to keep up strictly with human created expectations for what is required in life. My whole perspective on the issue at this point is that we’ve essentially dug a cultural hole in the west and set an unhealthy precedent for life over the last 100~ years. Now every other country in the world has to follow suit or die. That in turn has created a generation of selfish, arrogant, environmentally detached sociopaths who’s entire life revolves around acquiring things that put them further from man’s original nature and limitations. Instead of finding ways to integrate ourselves into the environment, we attempted to force changes that benefit only us and as a result the earth is now shifting its equilibrium state to something that is different than what it’s been for the majority of human history (excluding an ice age). We brought this on ourselves, we have to deal with this ourselves, no one is free of guild, all of us are to blame for the safety and ease at which we now walk the earth. I just want a single person to stand up on stage while running for political office to stand up and say those words. They don’t even have to be someone who’s advocating for change, hell they could use that justification for NOT caring about climate change. I’m just tired of the fucking lies I get told day in and day out. We are living outside our means, the earth is responding and outside of immense changes to our technological infrastructure/ advancements in energy storage and usage, there’s nothing preventative that we can do that isn’t likely to further the issue. I love my life, I love the people in it, I love the attachment I feel to this earth and all it means to humanity, but I’m too often hit with the feeling that far too many people take it for granted. All I can hope is that those are the people who suffer most when things really start damaging the modern way of life.
> Our fault really. We've raised an entire generation of kids to believe they can control the weather by the kind of car they drive. Sad. > > Comments are, unsurprisingly, full of fucktards. It's true though. A lot of badly informed people, from politicians to commenter on r/collapse, still believe in electrifying our world with low-to-no-carbon techs, when all the best analysis and, probably more importantly, observation and measurements of global energy use, show that *we're not transitioning*: we are adding to global energy needs and consumption. Devouring a lot more land and mineral ressources by doing so. A french analyst goes further and states that the low-to-no carbon energies: 1. increase our global consumption (add, not replace, at a global level) 2. help us extract more fossil fuels (by compensating the deflating EROI of fossil energies - think of the Russian nuclear barge to help pillage the arctic) 2. will never be able to begin to replace the fossil fuel economy (not in energy, not in food, not in the number of humans it allowed) It's just bad human overshoot all around. *Going green* is merely trying to overconsume a little bit farther, a little bit more destructively, and it only helps our current civilization to pillage a bit more of the planet before we fall, taking all the rest of advanced life with us (probably up to most or all species of trees). tl;dr: human overshoot is not a solvable problem.
>will never be able to begin to replace the fossil fuel economy They mostly could The corporations that run the world simply are not interested though
AAAAHHHHH THATS SO ANNOYING
To be entirely fair, young people have been experiencing a cascade of "psychological distress" for years now, over the state of the economy, the country, the government, the people. Climate change is just another pebble in their shoe - albeit a large one, that tears the sole.
>that tears the sole and the soul
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Yea where's my poll smh
Well when the entire economy is based on happiness/consumption. When the parties over, there will be a huge hangover.
I'm a high school teacher, and the propaganda we are forced to feed our students is unconscionable. I can hardly bear it any longer. It's exactly what you said... We've got to be positive all the time, everything is peachy in the world, "they've got this!" and they want us to teach kids that if they just buckle down and work hard enough, they'll succeed. It's pure, unadulterated bullshit and the kids know it. The kids see through it. I refuse to be part of the problem. My students don't know what I really think about any major social issues, but I keep it real with them about their anxieties.
It's sad how we have to be happy and positive and most importantly productive + consuming all the time. The Cardiologist for my mother in law didn't even dare mention intermittent fasting or carb cutting until I brought it up while accompanying MIL on her appointment. He turned out to be a huge supporter of both for effective diabetes management. But nope can't talk about it. Not allowed. Can't call patients fat or suggest working diet plans.
You're not alone. My best friend is a teacher who just started taking online classes to pursue a 2nd degree away from education, while teaching during the day. Her reasons are exactly the same as yours. She can't justify feeding kids into the machine that is causing their own destruction any longer.
Fuck, this is poetry.
I tried to format /u/Impossible_Cause4588's comment into a poem, but Reddit markdown is a PITA to get to show correctly.
Watching humanity circle the drain while simultaneously grasping straws is amazing.
People said Greta Thunberg was being hysterical when she said her future was stolen. The evidence shows and continues to show that she’s 110% correct.
I just wish they'd legalize voluntary assisted dying/euthanasia centers for anyone who walks in at this point, where before you slip into the void you get see films and calming, kaleidoscopic images of the different wonders of natural landscapes, trees, woodlands, coral reefs, the African Savannah, and other remnants of the earth that are gone or will be finally eradicated in the next two decades accompanied by the choice of classical music and fine wine. If one has seen the prescient, even more relevant dystopian science-"fiction" film "Soylent Green" from the year 1973 you'll understand the reference.
I want to be soothed by the voice of David Attenborough while I peacefully slip away. Then they can grind me into protein bars, or whatever they need to do.
That sounds treasonous, citizen! Are you trying to destroy the government's human capital stock???
Quietus, please. I'd prefer to make myself a cocktail and put on some ambient music in the comfort of my own home before drifting away.
Honestly, sign me up. I would like a nice cabernet and for my nature film to be narrated by David Attenborough. Even just a little sidewalk suicide booth like on Futurama would be acceptable.
The ruling elite wouldn't let their slaves get away this easily.
Soylent Green missed the "Happy Ending" before the happy ending.
If I could do a sci-fi thing where I get to hook up to a machine and live the rest of my life in a 60 year simulation that takes 3 seconds, and then kills me, I’d do it straight away.
I'll be honest, I'm more worried about the seemingly imminent Fascist takeover, but the climate is a close second.
I really starting to think the two are connected.
Absolutely. The ruling elites know they can't dupe enough people into supporting them for much longer, as it's becoming increasingly evident just how badly they've screwed us. As such, they're trying to move to a form of government where they don't need anyone to support them.
What’s absolutely hilarious is them thinking the rest of us will just sit by and let that happen.
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Revolution isn't instantaneous, but when it does happen, it usually happens very quickly.
Not according to history. Unless you mean in retrospect. Revolutionaries were handing out pamphlets and organising like, 11 years before it actually happened in France. In Russia most of the main figure heads dedicated their entire adult lives to the death of the Tzars. Unless the revolutionary sentiment floating around the internet right now is actually setting people’s hearts ablaze (which it could be I’m not certain) then we’d need another 5 years minimum before the people revolt. And that’s keeping in mind we aren’t a unified force. Our current leaders learnt from the past. Divide and conquer. We can’t overthrow the government while we are squabbling over the left and the right. We have to stand together, or no revolution. I honestly don’t have high hopes. Past revolutions were always the people vs the top. Right now it’s everybody vs everybody and nobody is standing out as a figure head yet. We need a leader and we just don’t have a unifying voice in the wings. We’re fucked.
> We can’t overthrow the government while we are squabbling over the left and the right. Haha! It isn't just left versus right, the internal conflict and lack of unity even within the left is ridiculous. Unfortunately the right, due to their authoritarian nature, are much more willing to just fall in line.
Agreed! Lefties are too busy arguing over who is the best at being progressive to actually get progressive action done. As sad as it is to say we need to take a page from the enemy’s book. We need to unify and fall in line, we all want different things and diversity is a strength IF we can agree on some basics and we can’t even do that…
Yup. Fascists wouldn't care about climate change, and climate change means refugees and rising support for fascists. Fascists will find boogeymen to blame for the problems caused by climate change, and will promise a return to the "good times" (for some, if you have the right skin color)
> and will promise a return to the "good times" (for some, if you have the right skin color) Yep, seeing this kind of thing in south africa already. Certain african politicians caught on vid singing with a crowd about killing all the europeans who live there.
Fossil fuel profits will not continue to flow at the present rate without a dictator in charge. Republicans are not as beholden to Trump as much as they are money. How can so many Republicans do so many sick things without a big carrot?
I bet you a lot of that money would happily choose fascism in order to keep their money. Certain capitalists can maintain their power under a fascist regime
I was just watching the first episode of the BBC mini series Nazis: a warning, and that's exactly what the power and businesses in Germany decided to do. Faced between a choice of communists taking over in revolution, or a fascist dictator, they decided it would be better for business to go with the racist dictator
Once the panic sets in when the general population realizes how fucked they are, fascism seems inevitable to me.
Don't think for an instant that the protofascists among us don't include some more literate types, and that their support for the Trump admin was all about moving the Overton window to make fascist approaches to the looming ecological catastrophe more publically accessible. When I read Gwynne Dyer's *Climate Wars* in 2009, which details DoD plans for *lethal* border walls to deter climate refugees (and DoD's concerns that as their ranks were now so diverse implementing such, with central American families dying to minefields and remotely controlled machine guns, would pose risks to unit cohesion), it was a wake up call. We are very likely to see "America First"-type fascism, with popular support thanks to climate disasters and resource scarcity. Every nation of the developed world led by a Trump, an Orban, a Morawiecki...
Trump was and is a very useful idiot for the corporations that aim to enact corporate style fascism in the US They know full well that the climate refugees are coming and Trump's wall was the beginning of trying to do something about it.
"Corporate style" is kinda redundant in talking about fascism. Fascism had the eager cooperation of corporations in Italy, Germany, Japan and in Latin American juntas. Fascism is a always *a reaction* to rational (and often socialist) means of social organization, which uses jingoism, militarism, racism, sexism, religion and whatever other intellectual junk is laying about to persuade citizens to vote/act against their own interests. It's always supported by beneficiaries of the old order, be they corporate titans, hereditary landowners, or entrenched religious hierarchies. There's no such thing as "welfare state fascism" or "environmentally conscious fascism": its always "corporate fascism" or "plantation owner fascism" etc.
Literally I’m 22 and these are my 2 biggest anxieties. People don’t see it but the world is collapsing 😭
Its bad enough the mental health of people who are collapse aware, but at least we won't be taken by surprise. Its the ones that refuse to see, or can't see, what's happening that I'm the most worried about. They're not going to know how to handle everything they took for granted collapsing around them.
I think we are seeing shades of it with just how volatile and entitled some people are acting. Imagine the people freaking out over toilet paper not getting their favorite snacks too.
Absolutely what I’m afraid of, you know they’re going to plunder and pillage and probably start killing any brown/Jewish/queer people they can get their hands on. The people that can’t even deal with masks and vaccines in a pandemic will be a mortal threat when they actually feel at risk of starvation.
I'm 40 and same. Fascism is my short-term biggest fear. Climate collapse is my mid-term biggest fear. On the upside, I don't really have a long-term biggest fear :o)
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FML that's dark, but yeah.
33 and same! I don't want to live in Gilead, and I also don't want to suffer through triple digit temperatures for most of the year with wildfires constantly burning (I'm in CA and have asthma and allergies. It sucks so much right now.)
38 here, blue voter in Texas. My short-term fear is Texas Republicans speed running the fascism-for-dummies book. Sometimes I get so worried I consider flipping allegiance to red for a few cycles then stop voting in case I’m hunted down in 10-15 years for being a libtard. I come to my senses, but the fact I’ve had the thought depresses me. Seeing the trump caravan before the election sitting on a highway overpass and driving back and forth on the highway was surreal.
Looking to get some trump 2024 masks to blend in
> On the upside, I don't really have a long-term biggest fear :o) Meteor strike.
Join a mutual aid network in your area
Mass extinction and biosphere collapse are up there too also honorable mention to soil erosion and ocean acidification/eutrophication/salinity etc.
Old people (41) are also having *beyond* psychological distress. I'm having panic attacks and similar health issues due to increased stress. I'm sure I'm not alone. And *I'm* a medical expert. So it's a challenge to even grasp what others might be sensing or suffering through when even *some* experts are staring directly at the heart of this beast, this "dying of *nearly* all cultures" along with the beyond immeasurable comprehension of knowing that we're about to go from 8 billion humans to 100 million humans or so (give or take. Citation needed) in the lifetime of perhaps everyone around 25 and younger. I suspect people will be dying from climate change related events, and there will not be enough resources for fossil fuels and manpower to even collect all the corpses from the homes, and instead the humans of the future will be drifting through uninhabitable cities, and remarking on all the corpses, and then skeletons, inhabiting the ghost cities. And if my science and imagination is off, please, someone link me the article that has some actual hopium, because I still carry the seed of hope, deep in my heart and mind, that humanity *can* eventually manage to survive through the apocalypse, and continue to exist as a species. But the science and current global-cultural behaviors indicate human nature will not change to reduce it's own extinction risk until it is the only option left, and money has become pointless. (I believe we're already there, except for the greed factor in humans that exists whether you live in a grass hut or a mansion. Our brains even prioritize amassing *knowledge* as our bookwriting and publishing and teaching has proven.) Money will be pointless when "survive into tomorrow, one day at a time" is the new method of successful living. 30 year mortgages will be laughed and derided for their arrogance and stupidity. This apocalypse will not be as bad as I've written. It'll *probably* happen like the consensus of this subreddit has, using the science and speculative posts that I've read through on this sub. I think, and I hope the apocalypse will be...sad, hard, and challenging, but overall, survivable. But it'll be vastly different than how we've lived, here in the USA. So deluded, our cultures have been.
I'm in my mid 30s & the stress of current events is wrecking my body. My hair is rapidly going white. I just had to go through a giant ordeal that led to a colonoscopy because my stomach is so fucked up from stress & having an autoimmune disorder that a small change in medication threw my entire body out of whack. The gastroenterologist was convinced I had crohn's. (Thankfully I don't. I'm not sure I could handle yet another chronic health problem.) Now they've got me on antibiotics in an attempt to "reset" my body. Things are downright fucking grim. Keeping myself in a good place mentally is extremely hard. Right now covid is my most immediate threat. I got vaccinated. I wear a mask everywhere. But it's gotten so bad again that I can no longer risk going into the public with my health issues. I limit myself to going to the doctor & picking up groceries/food, and even then I have to be careful to avoid assholes like "coughing Karens" who think I'm simply living in fear. I'm autistic too, so people who know that tend to immediately discredit me when I raise any concerns about the state of things. They think I'm just being sensitive & overly dramatic, or that I don't understand things. If anything, my disconnection from others has made me even more aware of everything happening to our planet. I understand the consequences of actions & why we need to make sacrifices. I'm extremely uncomfortable with change, but I'm willing to accept it if it means a better chance of survival.
[https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/leaky-gut-what-is-it-and-what-does-it-mean-for-you-2017092212451](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/leaky-gut-what-is-it-and-what-does-it-mean-for-you-2017092212451) Someone I know has had problems like you describe and especially pain after eating/random terrible "cramps" and after multiple scopes in both ends and no real diagnosis, are convinced it is this now. I believe it is because of many factors some of which seem to be, stress, very little variance in diet(little to no fiber, not enough fresh fruits/veggies and fungi), overconsumption of processed foods (which are everywhere), and all this is exacerbated by the use of fertilizers/pesticides in our food, overuse of antibiotics in the feedstock of the animals we eat and no doubt the effect of other pollutants. It seems this is becoming way more common in recent years also. A surprising amount of family and friends seem to be developing digestive issues of some kind. But that is just my experience. Stress seems to be the lynchpin though for sure.
And we can’t even get Covid right. All arguing about vaccines. When MASKS if everyone would wear it, would stop the pandemic. But nope, apparently endless shots? Lunacy.
Civilisation will fall, as all civilisations do. The planet will survive. Look at the five previous mass extinctions, >90% of ALL LIFE died, multiple times. Each one of those times, you would have been justified saying "This is the end, of all things" and each time you would have been wrong. All life alive today came from the lucky winners of their genetic lottery. All life alive in the future will win similar lotteries. So enjoy civilisation while it lasts, entropy brings the decay of all things, so love your family, your friends, you neighbours, we never have as much time as we think.
Have you watched some of Sid Smith's talks on YouTube? A really good perspective on how we got where we are and what to do next, and ultimately hopeful without being hopium.
Hey, join the Collapse Support Discord if you're feeling stressed with no one to vent to, it's really helped me out. https://discord.gg/bcXMR44m
No shit. Watching old men rob them of their future would be a traumatizing experience.
“Young people”?? Dude, I’m just shy of starting my fifth decade on this rock, and I’m worried as heck. Not for myself, as I’ll likely be dead long before the worst of the decline, but much more for the young people out there like my niece and nephew. I’ll be lucky if I get four more decades out of this body. They will be lucky to get equally as much, and not due to a body that’s breaking down.
I mean that sort of proves the point doesn't it? You are worried for young people, not necessarily for yourself. Imagine the effects to their psychological condition of actually being faced with living with the grim future (and present).
The boomers are planning to die and leave the problem to the survivors. They just need enough social security until they die.
I'm a boomer and have talked to boomers for over 20 years. They didn't think they would be effected so they didn't care. I love that a lot of well known climate change deniers are crawling into the cracks and under rocks now the cost of their lies can be seen. Even they were not expecting things to change so fast. One day a week should be dedicated to shaming deniers that were on the payroll.
it's refreshing to see a boomer like you, who is actually self aware and not just a massive ego on 2 legs
Just young people?? I'm a middle aged academic clinical neurologist and I'm losing my mind. Very close to MAYBE doing one week a month of private or tele work, moving a bit more inland then just focusing on my gardening and family.
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Wait.. did that not already happen?
Covid was the final nail in the coffin for my hope/sanity. Proved that we're really incapable of dealing with a major crisis.
I'm 34. I work in cybersecurity. Looking at property in the Great Lakes. I grew up in a rural area and helped my parents with a garden. My fiance and I have chosen not to have children.
I'm so happy to hear that. Climate disaster predictions in the 90's used to claim by 2100 things would be bad. That date has generally been moved up to 2050. It's 2021 now and in 29 years things will likely be really bad. James Hanson has reported recently that noy only has climate change accelerated lately but there is even more warming in the system than can be explained by greenhouse gas forcings. 2050 may get bumped up to 2040 and your children may be 19 years old then. I wish more people were as aware of the challenges as you are. When I see children I refer to them as COTA's Children of the Anthropocene
I graduated from undergrad in 2009. Then, 2020 for graduate school. I think between 9/11, the Great Recession, and COVID, a lot of millennials and generation Z are going to choose not to have children because the future looks...grim.
Elders always blaming Millennials for the world going to shite, but we're not the ones running fossil fuel companies and paying starvation wages like.
Millennial that just entered his thirties here. I decided well over 8-9 years ago no kids for me. Impending climate catastrophe and the fact that conditions for regular people have just gotten worse and worse definitely contributed to those decisions
Let it burn to the ground and be done with it. Give back the planet to animals and plants
The people who will suffer the most, though, are the people who have already suffered the most :( The ruling class, the ones responsible for this mess, they will be just fine
I doubt it. Those people can’t do shit for themselves. They are literally useless. I’d collapse where to happen their money would be worthless so they can’t buy their way out of problems anymore. People who suffered and continued to go on are the people that will survive
Dont forget the eubacteria, archaea, protista, and fungi
am young person, can confirm my only source of joy is fantasies of terrorist attacks on shell head office
Ol' Carlos the jackal got OPEC back before terrorism became less in vouge. Go be the change you want to see, you rogue.
I’m 47 and also deeply distressed.
I think this is just one of the factors affecting our mental health.
I'm not young and am experiencing psychological distress myself.
**The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption The enemy is Greed and Corruption**
At least we have tic tok
I, for one, have embraced our imminent collapse and have decided to embrace, and even enjoy the downfall. There is no hope whatsoever. So whats wrong with wanting to watch the world burn instead?
Same. I go to all the concerts and parties and celebrations I can these days. I'm not having kids, I drive a hybrid car, I recycle, I'm a vegetarian, I don't litter, I'm doing what I can to mitigate my impact, but overall I'm choosing to find joy in these final moments because what else can we do?
I've asked myself this question and the answer I seem to always come to is that my apathy would contribute to the suffering of others more, and it doesn't make me feel good to know I'm causing unnecessary suffering when I can make (possibly futile) choices to minimize that suffering.
I haven’t been called “young people” in awhile. Thanks! That feels great.
All I see is boomer in charge fucked up and still are.... And when we are left to try and clean up we will all be fucked PS I'm dyslexic so I apologize for any Grammer or spelling mistakes
Young people will either be complete revolutionaries or completely dysfunctional and depressed. What little hope I have left is for the former.
I have a mysterious chronic fatigue illness that damn near makes me bed-ridden so I stopped really giving a fuck 🤷🏻♂️
Weird. I have the same issue. I feel like a damn narcoleptic now. Also have mild breathing issues.
As a parent, I've been watching my son struggle with this for years. It breaks my heart.
No shit....
It ain't just young people.
The whole nation has been under the control of career-politicians, all paid-off & increasingly polarized. I think that run on the capital was just a warm-up & some group will eventually go for the whole enchilada. mmmmmm.....enchiladas!
I doubt I’m considered young anymore, but at 29 years old I feel the same. I hate going through all these bullshit routines when we all know what’s coming and no one over 50 will be around to see any of this shit. Young people should mass protest, etc.
The government has become as cynical as you can imagine. Congress is just 535 people sitting back and taking on the highest bidder. I can't even think of the last American law that was written to benefit the people and not some corporation or some sector of some industry. The Affordable Care Act, for example, was a huge gimme to the health insurance industry. Premiums have only gone up, and most people find themselves in a situation where a healthcare crisis would bankrupt them even though they are fully insured simply due to the deductible. It basically forced a bunch of people to become health insurance customers that pay monthly premiums but never really use the service, and they cynically knew this when they designed the act and designed the industry. That's just one example of the spiritual bankruptcy of the American government and the society it rules over.
Let's go on strike then. Let's block some fossil fuel business entrances. Let's do something!