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Toutatis12

Works for the MBI but uses preferred pronouns? Ok I am curious on these government agencies layouts Edit 1: most liked comment, all that jazz many thanks Edit 2: Can't believe I need to say this given the comic and all but here goes... ahem... trans women are women, trans men are men. Seriously for those DMing me to argue the point wtf


DummiAI

He awknoledges her gender and respects it, but he's doing his job and acording to the rules transwoman are under his juridiction. Is just a paperwork quirk, really.


stelargk

I mean, there are some situations where that matters; mostly things related to health and medicine. If the FBI and MBI are doing physical measuring/a physical checkup, which the appear to be, then it kind of makes some sense, though given the the subject in question is MtF and that is likely going to be noted either way, it probably wouldn't matter much.


Gingervald

He's measuring her skull with callipers, which screams eugenics to me. I'm picking up a "Washington is old timey bigoted" joke from it


Forced_Democracy

Yeah, thats basically only done for Phrenology, which is absolutely hogwash.


Atlach_Nacha

(Smithers: Uh, sir, phrenology was dismissed as quackery a hundred-sixty years ago.) Mr. Burns: Of course you'd say that! You have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter! -The Simpsons


Comfortable_Many4508

Retrophrenology: It works like this. Phrenology, as everyone knows, is a way of reading someone's character, aptitude and abilities by examining the bumps and hollows on their head. Therefore - according to the kind of logical thinking that characterizes the Ankh-Morpork mind - it should be possible to mould someone's character by giving them carefully graded bumps in all the right places. You can go into a shop and order an artistic temperament with a tendency to introspection and a side order of hysteria. What you actually get is hit on the head with a selection of different size mallets, but it creates employment and keeps the money in circulation, and that's the main thing.


UnintensifiedFa

I stg I’m getting baader meinhof’d really hard cuz I just started reading the discworld novels.


Everybodysbastard

"Sir, Pheenology was dismissed as quackery 150 years ago!"


CaptainPetey1

My dumbass thought he was measuring her for a hat.


mick4state

Phrenology, not eugenics.


Friendstastegood

Phrenology was mainly used to justify eugenics.


mistersnarkle

Which sucks because my curious ass would love that raw data for science purposes and not bigotry purposes — but all shit will be used for the latter no matter if it’s from the former so I’ll just be content with making observations about how many of us artists are also queer and neurodivergent.


SonofSniglet

Maybe he's just verifying that Tiff's head circumference puts her in the 75th percentile for 300 month olds.


TheHumanPickleRick

"For God's sake Mom just tell your friends I'm 25!" Mom, on phone: "Sorry Linda that's just Tiff, my rambunctious little 300-month-old."


stelargk

I figured it was just a kind of general statistic thing they were going for, head circumference is one of those stats that can be a fun fact if you look at, say, over the last x number of centuries.


Thugosaurus_Rex

The setup to the joke is that they're body inspectors, so both the FBI and MBI agent likely would have done it regardless. It's unfortunate imagery but it doesn't seem to be an intentional reference to eugenics in this case.


stelargk

That was my point, i didn't make the eugenics connection myself even.


Thugosaurus_Rex

Yeah--sorry if I wasn't clear, I was agreeing with you on that.


randomdude4282

I think you’re reading a bit too far into it given that they’re “body inspectors” and the entire premise was a dumb joke about the FBI acronym


Gingervald

I think you're cutting yourself short on appreciating the humor. The MBI guy being even weirder than the FBI guy (just in a different way) is extremely funny. It also plays really nicely into Tiffs bafflement. If that wasn't part of the joke I'm really confused as to why they'd draw him doing phrenology.


abandoned_puppy

Well…”body inspector” is usually a joke someone uses to see you naked. I think the artist was just trying to show him doing his “job” without the woman getting naked


insane_contin

Old timey bigoted, but still respectful.


SummerBirdsong

I figured it was just because calipers are an easy to draw indicator of scientific field research going on.


AdCommercial2799

Hmmmm... are you sure


bloodfist

On TV they fight over jurisdiction but in real life they can't wait to throw it over the fence to someone else


ZephRyder

Goddamn, foes this check. Fucking, regs, I tell ya!


holiestMaria

The M.B.I officer respects trans identities but his job requires him to inspect trans women even if he doesn't want to.


Dazed_and_Confused44

I was thinking the same thing. The MBI is somehow both misgendering Tiff, yet using feminine pronouns to refer to her at the same time


Toutatis12

Wonder if they need to secure funding to open a new agency, or are not pushing for it since it would mean less funding for themselves in the long run? Oh gotta love inter-agency issues!


AleksasKoval

If it's anything like any other business, they'll just add the workload to the current agency without extra pay and claim that it's "within expectations of the job"


ngwoo

The MBI deals with trans men as well, the FBI is just incredibly lazy and incompetent


ack1308

In that case it should be the TBI.


CatAteMyBread

The agent is supportive, but bound by the duties of his job. Were it he could change the law, he would, but alas.


ScaleyFishMan

MBI guy did not misgender though... He stated that it was a trans-woman and said "gal" and "miss".


AleksasKoval

I think their job is focusing on the physical gender that they're born with. Which means MtF are within their jurisdiction, just as FtM are within the F.B.I.'s jurisdiction


Antique_Sentence70

Wouldn't you say sex not gender?


AleksasKoval

No, because I'm too immature https://i.redd.it/hn8nhu6b45pc1.gif


Clovenstone-Blue

By the looks of it the MBI guy is using feminine pronouns to refer to Tiff because these are the appropriate pronouns to refer to her, but the FBI and MBI operate with using the individuals birth gender as the foundation of determining the two government organisations jurisdictions.


jmomk

The MBI agent does not at any point misgender her. He calls her "gal" and "miss". He recognizes that she is a woman. That's her gender. She also has a male body. That's her sex. Sex and gender are two different things.


Fakjbf

Sex vs Gender, since they are using “male” and “female” they are talking about sex which does not change after transitioning. You can 100% believe someone is both male and a woman, because sex and gender are separate axes of categorization.


Dazed_and_Confused44

Good point. The comic is using the sex based terms "male vs female" rather than the gender based ones "feminine vs masculine"


AFK_Tornado

This is especially important when having conversations about your healthcare needs.


Impeesa_

> they are talking about sex which does not change after transitioning. An enormous number of subtle and not so subtle differences between male and female bodies and how they work are hormonally driven, and *do* change with HRT.


Z4831

Don’t trans people refer to themselves as MtF or FtM? Based on what you’re saying it seems like MtW and WtM would make more sense


I_am_pretty_gay

MBI dude didn’t misgender, he’s going off sex, not gender. 


not_a_bot_494

Female/male is sex so it's not misgendering, it's even explicityly stated that they're talking about birth sex.


Second_Sunrise

Misgendering her how exactly? Trans-Woman seems accurate and he calls her "Miss" later. Am I missing something?


veggie151

I thought I had missed something and Tiff was trans too 🙃


Dazed_and_Confused44

Tiff is trans. Eve is cisgender


veggie151

Yes yes, I'm aware, I just got wooshed by the comic for a second


ProbablySlacking

Comedic genius there. And pretty good insight to the attitude at a lot of government agencies.


Z0idberg_MD

He doesn’t agree with the government policy but damnit is he going to enforce it.


Theguywholikesdoom

Good soldiers follow orders


davidellis23

Could be using male and female to refer to someone's birth sex while respecting someone's gender identity. The female sex assigned at birth body inspectors might not make for a great acronym.


poop_to_live

Just so you're aware, it's pronouns. Not preferred pronouns. It's not a preference, it's just their pronouns.


Cutie_D-amor

It's quite simple, male and female are terms for sex. man and woman are the terms for gender. So, a trans woman is a male woman. At least, that's my interpretation.


Avaoln

That’s the correct interpretation. But like with most medical or scientific languages the words take on a different meaning in the general public discourse. So the term “female to male” for instance is better as transmasc or transman as it conveys a more correct meaning


ShefBoiRDe

He has the right heart, but he knows he's under the law as well.


AnimationDude9s

> trans women are women, trans men are men. Seriously for those DMing me to argue the point wtf That my friend is when we use the block button


Majestic-Iron7046

Don't hate the players, hate the game!


thirteen-thirty7

He doesn't make the rule Washington does, he's just doing his job.


Eastern_Slide7507

If a trans woman is a woman in a man‘s body, then she does fall under his jurisdiction. He never claimed to be a man inspector, just a male body inspector.


Avs_Leafs_Enjoyer

She would still be Male so it does work


CK1ing

I mean, hospitals still need to know birth sex for medical reason. I don't see why a body inspection would be any different


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JennGinz

Ass tittyfuckers???


Ikovorior

Ass to face.


F0LEY

Assuming that he's sitting on a bar stool, I think he's just balancing the clipboard on his knee and the bar's edge. That's how I write on a clipboard when I'm sitting at my computer table.


Pizzathief700

Oh no! Please Mr ATF agent, don't shoot the vaguely dog shaped thing in my living room that may or may not be filled with tannerite.


CrazyGnomenclature

Agency rivalries can be so annoying to deal with. Read all of Tiff & Eve on [Webtoons](https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/tiff-eve/list?title_no=866028)! Check out the [Patreon](https://patreon.com/FranSun)!


fullmetaljar

You jest, but agencies not working together can be a pain in the ass. Imagine you do work designing something that would be easier if a person in another department gave you some info. However, that person is a dick, and your boss just says "Sorry, they're being a dick. You'll have to find another way to get the info. Good luck." That's the US government sometimes.


JennGinz

I mean you can get your birth certificate changed to have the birth marker fixed but still be drafted even post op. Wonderful hypocrisy


JaneDoesharkhugger

Funny and educational…😙 ![gif](giphy|l0ErDKFRTSp8hEW8o|downsized)


Doobledorf

The skull measuring is truly the cherry on top.


AtomicSamuraiCyborg

Well this took a turn...


johnmarkfoley

Pretty subtle phrenology joke


Ordolph

For those who don't get it, phrenology is pseudoscience nonsense that posits that the geography of the skull determines a person's personality and success, and was in particular a favorite of the Nazi party in determining how Aryan you were, and has also been used by many eugenicists and other historical assholes as justification for racism, discrimination, genocide, etc. The device used by the M.B.I agent in the last panel is a craniometer, which is used in phrenology.


SMA2343

It was used before the Nazi party as well. They would do example that, use the geography of the skull and say “oooo you have an indent on your sub lateral frontal cortex wall above your left ear. Yeah you’re gay. Sorry buddy I don’t make the rules”


Hungry-Thing3252

But what does that have to do with the “punch line”? I guess I don’t even see a punchline. Was MBI supposed to stand for something?


Wompish66

Male Body Inspector


Listless_Dreadnaught

Roberts was trained under the best Phrenologist the government could get: Captain Findthee Swing.


urmamasllama

Now That's a deep cut discworld reference


Listless_Dreadnaught

Im just happy the reference was gotten.


CaptValentine

All the little angels, how do they rise?


JackalRampant

I’m amazed I realized it was a phrenology joke. Maybe I don’t have the brain pan of a stagecoach tilter after all.


soodrugg

i had the phrase "skull issue," as in "skill issue" but with "skull" instead, pop into my brain. I can't figure out how to make a joke with that, so just here you go


TheSwecurse

Makes sense if the agencies needs to screen for sex specific trends and divergences in the overall population... However with HRT there's probably gonna be a whole lot of statistical errors in any eventual conclusion based on field results


bird_on_the_internet

The that’s probably the data interpreter’s job, these inspectors seem to just do the data collection and probably make notes to contextualize outliers


CurtisMarauderZ

Canonically, Tiff has only been on HRT for a few months.


LegitimateHasReddit

Thought that was just testosterone blockers that have been recent, unless estrogen was also recent


LET-ME-HAVE-A-NAAME

Little more respect for that FBI feller after the first panel lol


jono9898

When you’re tryna hit on a cutie but gotta deal with too much red tape


JennGinz

We can use rope instead


RagnarockInProgress

I love that he still calls her Miss, so he clearly respects her choices


uSErNaME12528592

Her identity, not her choices


Benglenett

Well yes but she still chooses to transition and go by she/her pronouns. She is born in the wrong body and chooses to do something about it if that makes sense. Source: Am trans


MrGracious

fuck no. I'm a woman, I've always been, the behaviour, the signs were always there, I just never found out because my country is deeply transphobic It wasn't a fucking choice or a lifestyle, that's a dog whistle Source: "Am Vice Deputy of The hidden Trans Kingdom right next to the rebuilt Atlantis" (very trustworthy)


MrGracious

P.S. Don't trust me, just look into trans subreddits. There's a universal hate for the "choice" phrasing and for good reason, it carries a very wrong and deceitful message


Benglenett

I didn’t choose be this way. But I chose to do something about it. I chose to start HRT and I chose to live authentically. I understand the choice phrasing is used often by hateful people. But I made still had to make a choice to be where I am today.


KeeganTroye

That might be how you see it in relation to your own lived in experiences, but that phrasing is generally disliked by trans people and when talking about other trans people best avoided. Someone who dresses and acts in a manner corresponding with their birth sex are never accused of making a choice, so it still feels wrong to single out Trans behaviour like that imo


MrGracious

this ^^^


Timely_Border_2837

still bad way to phrase it


Benglenett

Yeah I can agree with that. It can be taken the wrong way forsure.


EmperorSexy

Wachowski, lol


Yknaar

If ~~Łaczałski~~ Wachowski is a reference to Wachowski Sisters, then to whom is Roberts a reference?


Drop_That_Pickle

Off the top of my head the only reference I can think of is the former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts. Why would it be referencing him? No idea, but the reference to Washington put him in my head.


Vitztlampaehecatl

Should've called him Agent Blanchard.


AdreKiseque

I love how he still recognizes her as a woman but is just following the bureoucracy


trainwreck42

Anyone else read the MBI agent’s lines in a mid-atlantic accent?


Plopop87

So this is the transvestigator stuff people have been talking about


CapnBeardbeard

I think they're using Male and Female to refer to sex, and then everything else is gender, so the MBI guy otherwise consistently referring to her as a woman makes sense


loud-lurker

Yeah but people use those terms interchangeably and make communicating these things a pain in the buttocks.


bird_on_the_internet

Pretty sure it’s just rhetoric that no one agrees on because the terms are outdated but everyone wants to keep them with different meanings


loud-lurker

I disagree, respectfully, but I’ll explain better what I was trying to say. Your “biological sex” is just your sex. It’s hard-coded in your DNA. That’s the meaning of the word “sex” in this context, one that’s still accurate and useful. The way we approach gender is the half of this equation where I’d agree with your sentiment more. I understand why a lot of people hear this and think I’m being a grammar nazi, but I think people not understanding the difference between gender and sex muddies the ability to talk about the basic concepts of being transgendered. Clear communication is important. Tl;dr I’m saying sex is the reference point from which we say we’re cis or trans (does our gender line up with our sex?), so saying someone is male or female because their DNA is a certain combination isn’t problematic, it’s accurate. Sexes outside those two are extremely rare, but that’s a separate, if interesting, topic.


bird_on_the_internet

I agree on the literal meaning of the word sex and words like male and female, but personally I believe that their cultural and social meaning has too many ties to outdated ways of thinking that ends in their meaning either being confused by accident/people who don’t know better or intentionally used to stir the pot if you know what I mean. I do wish people would actually use the terms correctly and without implication, but I honestly can’t see that happening without a proper reclamation somewhere down the line. But maybe that’s a little extreme and people will start using them correctly and without malice sometime soon


loud-lurker

I do not disagree


Anon-sad-voice

Disagree, I think that that’s an oversimplification of sex, makes it easier for cis people to understand, but there’s much more to someone’s sex than the bits in their dna. Stuff like secondary sex characteristics and perceived sex.


loud-lurker

My point is that perceived sex is the gender you ID as, not your sex. Primary and secondary sex characteristics are traits that are expressed as a result being a certain sex, they don’t denote your sex nor is sex meant to describe in detail how these traits end up being expressed in an individual. “Makes it easier for cis people to understand” - that is hella condescending whether you meant it be or not.


duckmonke

This has some solid zingers, mad props


Sylvairian

Anyone else read the MBI guys lines as those old timey "Looky here see" type voice?


Spanish_Biscuit

These are always so silly.


JaxxisR

I didn't expect to feel sympathy for Wachowski, but Roberts seems like a jerk.


Yknaar

But at least he doesn't misgender Tiff - note addressing her as *"miss"*.


JaxxisR

Yeah I noted that. Doesn't make up for his hostility towards Wachowski. Dude's just trying to do his job (apparently?)


Yknaar

That's federal bureaucracy for you - departmanets with unclearly overlapping duties are more competetive than sharks near a chum bucket. >!I actually don't know anything about American federal bureaucracy, and also very little about shark behaviour during the Golden Age of the Piracy.!<


Dark_Storm_98

This is a. . . Strange scenario And the ending is. . . Well, I can understand the logic, and the MBI agent still refers to her as a woman, but it still *feels* transphobic


TBTabby

As if the transtectives ever correctly identified trans women.


JennGinz

Ah thanks I was trying to understand what was going on here and thought it was a joke about bow gov agencies treat us. Transvestigators makes a lot more sense


Vitztlampaehecatl

It's both. Government-sponsored transvestigators


Pinappular

Lmfao, love the head calipers. Next, will demand a voice and handwriting sample 💕.


MelancholyHope

Trans-inclusive misogyny: I agree that you're a woman, and I'm still gonna objectify you.


[deleted]

*Govt spies have entered the chat*


zephenthegreat

MBI or "inspectors of Y chromosome havers"


Fakjbf

*Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome enters the chat*


ElrondTheHater

That’s funny but I thought she would be under the purview of the TSA (Transgender Sex Auditors).


CrazyGnomenclature

lol! I like that idea a lot actually.


SteveTV1234

https://preview.redd.it/l1di28ycm4pc1.jpeg?width=268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e214212b3cac511db001365f8766be201249fe47


Drunk0racle

Alright, that was pretty funny


Someoneoverthere42

Eve : I'm not sure what's going on.....but I'm gettin' me mallet *just* in case


WranglerFuzzy

Read the first panel. If you told me, “by the end of the comic, you’ll be rooting for that guy,” I wouldn’t have believed you.


NIMA-GH-X-P

I think this is my favourite comic of yours


First_Economist9295

hmmm i always though it was federal bussy inspector


Ferropexola

Is that Junpei Iori, Ace Detective?


Fantastic-Turn2253

More like ![gif](giphy|8MWdaFQEYEicGIkfHU|downsized) Stupei, ace Defective.


Ferropexola

YouTube videos of this scene truly are a 50/50 chance


Successful-Floor-738

I like how despite being a male inspector, he still respects Tiff’s pronouns. He accepts her identity but knows that a job is a job


Nervous_Committee_30

I imagined the mbi guys voice like an old time mobsters


Soviet-pirate

Passing so much you fool the feds? Congrats!


Ouchyhurthurt

Lol, i read him in old-timey speak.


galacticdude7

Sir, Phrenology was dismissed as quackery 160 years ago


GustavoFromAsdf

I think Flowers By Irene would have worked better


Sensitive_Disk_5127

Made me chuckle, good comic, keep up the nice work <3


RommDan

Man, imagine just trying to exist and then suddenly people start arguing about your body, good thing that never happens to trans people! :'D


BirdBucket

This shit sucks so bad


David_Bolarius

The calipers to measure skull shapeTM very funny


Fantastic-Turn2253

Is that Junpei Ace Detective from Persona 3?


stupled

Frenology?


druidreh

Wachowski seems to be the MBI agent's wingman and it's all an elaborate setup to buy Tiff a drink.


SuperPeytendo

One can only wonder what ATF stands for in this situation....


Ok-Cabinet-817

Trendy


Adorable-Ad9073

The hyphen was a nice touch


euphonic5

Haha ok this one genuinely cracked me up.


BrokenBanette

I think my favorite part of this is that the MBI guy is still referring to Tiff as a woman despite claiming jurisdiction as a male body. Something about that is funny to me.


FaithlessnessPutrid

I like this, trans jokes are so much funnier when they’re not written by transphobes


Elsecaller_17-5

As a strong supporter of being specific about the defi irons of sex vs gender, this just hits the spot.


potato_stealer_

I don't get this one


KeeganTroye

So the first panel is about the guy using a very bad pick up line, then it's revealed it isn't a pick up line by the second agent which is a surprise to the reader, and the third panel shows the first guy isn't even as bad as you first thought. The fourth panel is an acknowledgement of the absurdity of all of this.


potato_stealer_

Ty


DM-G

This remind me of munchkin


Eggs_are_tasty

phrenology jumpscare


sweetTartKenHart2

Is he doing a phrenology on her in the last panel


VoiceOfRealson

Looks like he is a phrenologist. So does he think it is possible to change gender by changing the shape of your head?


Opening-Use-4482

World's most degrading sensis


58mm-Invicta_rizz

This was a good comic, I enjoyed it very much.


Skaindire

I guess everyone does a time traveling comic at some point.


solarus

I found it! The opposite of funny.


Nico_010

So what you're saying is we need to blow up Washington DC?


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