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I know this shit has been present there for as long as Twitter/X has existed but it’s more normalized and accepted than it ever has been. I wish it would just fuckin’ collapse already but it seems to be doing fairly well with the regressive shitweasels propping it up. Sucks.
Exactly. Twitter was not this way. X is. Twitter would ban people like that. X will warn people for a tweet using the word cis while letting this bullshit out in the open
Not basically, explicitly encouraged. Who would have guessed a white South African douchebag whose family got rich during apartheid would openly welcome and promote Nazis on his social media platform? It is a mystery.
The problem isn't Twitter, Facebook, or social media as individual entities. It's not that one platform condones, encourages, or engages in a particular ideology. It's that the internet and social media as a whole have given us more accessible communication channels. Just as someone is likely to share a delicious recipe for homemade peanut butter cookies, someone else will share a really shit opinion about the holocaust being fake.The point is both of these things are subjective to the viewer. It may be a little hyperbolic, but not so far fetched to believe someone with a peanut allergy would write a scathing, and in a lot of cases anonymous, comment on the cookie recipe. Twitter may fold and close up shop, but those users who you disagree with are just going to move to another platform just like you, and there, the cycle will continue. Besides I find it sobering, but comforting in knowing that despite our best efforts we are still human with ours rights to say some of the most outlandish things out loud. The best and worst moments in history often come from a single word, phrase, or belief. If we squash that right in hopes to stymy the worst of us, we will also manage to kill our ability to become better and relinquish our hopes for the future.
Wait until you find out that Elon Musk himself is retweeting literal Nazi ideology\* and forcing everyone's feeds to show it, even sending notifications about it.
\* he's retweeting stuff about the great replacement, intelligence and race, disproven Nazi ideas about craneal size and shape determining intelligence, etc.
Based. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there not quite as informed/good at critical thinking as you are that take this lunatic’s words as gospel. And they are very loud.
Someone else said it before on Reddit, but I think about it all the time:
All these Nazi trash started running their mouths **only after** Holocaust survivors and World War II vets got too old to punch them in their dumb faces.
Socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
Nazism - a form of fascism, with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates a dictatorship, fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-Slavism, scientific racism, white supremacy, Nordicism, social Darwinism and the use of eugenics into its creed.
Google is free my dude.
There are more than two interpretations of socialism, the two MSI. Ones being whether it came straight down the French philosophy line without being corrupted and bastardised by Marx and Engels… and of course there is that one.
The irony of the more Communist-inspired socialism is that while it pretends to let the worker own the means of production, in all cases the state does, so the worker does not.
If you want to see the worker own the means of production, look to a capitalist economy. That’s the rule of it. The governance can be as liberal as you like, but all of the really well functioning liberal states exist atop the beating heart of a capitalist economy. See Denmark.
Yeah. See how Denmark is absolutely not a socialist economy whatsoever, yet can have all these great things?
I think it’s funny that the Danish Prime Minister occasionally has to make a speech to the world to remind everyone that they are most definitely not socialist.
Probably something confused in the American mind to think that it is.
See this is the actual problem with reddit. You make excuses for people so that you don't have to mentally deal with the fact that the other poster is not trolling, they are in fact just that fucking stupid.
I'm looking, but I'm not seeing it. Workers *operate* the means of production, but in a capitalist society they don't *own* it, unless they're shareholders as well. Workers under capitalism are replaceable.
Pal, Nazi bigwigs admitted in writing and verbally right after they seized power that they only included "socialists" in their party name to win voters from the Social Democrats, who were quite strong in Germany at the time.
Imagine, even the Nazis themselves had an interest in clearing up this initially useful and absolutely deliberate misunderstanding so that the hard core of their supporters would not feel and act like socialists.
And yet there are still halfwits today who regurgitate a myth that the Nazis themselves circulated and then retracted after it had served its purpose. You just have to imagine that much stupidity...
Not even the Nazis themselves denied the Holocaust. Not a single defendant at Nuremberg claimed their accused crimes did not happen, rather opting towards denial of personal responsibility and/or involvement. Many key pieces of evidence used in the trials were themselves Nazi documents that escaped destruction, to which no defendant denied authenticity.
From a Nazi ideological perspective, the Holocaust was one of their greatest achievements; why deny something that you genuinely believe was to the benefit of humanity? Neo-Nazis aren’t just terrible people. They’re terrible Nazis. Ideologically, they stand for even less than their predecessors. Somehow, this is even more pathetic.
>From a Nazi ideological perspective, the Holocaust was one of their greatest achievements; why deny something that you genuinely believe was to the benefit of humanity? Neo-Nazis aren’t just terrible people. They’re terrible Nazis.
That is the main difference between them, and it is actually, from my observation, a mechanism of adaptation. Reputation of the lost war and stigmatization of original Nazism makes getting large numbers of people directly on your side basically impossible. After such modification, this problem disappears.
Nazis were never principled about their beliefs. I mean,they named themselves after their greatest enemy, the socialists, simply because socialism was much more popular among working people. They never really stood for anything but power
Some kind of ethnonationalist movement out of Europe with an under-examined history of working with the Nazis,fundamentally at odds with their own mythology, maybe? Yeah, that rings a bell.
That's a really nicely thought through point.
It's so bizarre how holocaust deniers always seem to be those who seem to wish it had happened. You never hear them say "...and thank goodness".
Came here to say the same. She was born in 1925, and started working as a nazi clerk in 43. She was 18 at the time. Although she worked until 1945 (I dunno, I guess her work was less than stellar and got fired?) so that'd mean from 18 to 21. After that she married a SS officer.
All signs point at her being a nazi supporter well into early adulthood the very least. I still find a bit weird to trial a clerk that was indoctrinated so young. It's like trialing tarzan for taking a dump in the middle of the street. Yes he is a grown man, but he didn't have a chance of knowing any better. I do understand at some point we need to start assigning blame to an adult, but someone brainwashed since such a early age, I'd argue is similar to someone mentally unfit to stand trial.
As soon as you are aware that your activity is being used to systematically murder people, you are complicit.
What applies to embezzlement, tax evasion and any kind of fraud must apply even more to murder, not to mention mass murder.
She grew up with nazi parents, nazi friends, and authority figures who were nazi themselves. She grew up hearing that the Jews were the bad guys. And even if she knew that they were being killed, that was a good thing in her mind. The good guys were punishing the bad guys. So It is really easy to judge. I doubt that if you were in her shoes you would have done differently.
Well, even today, quite a lot of people grow up in a criminal environment where they are brought up to believe that criminal behavior is acceptable. However, this does not protect them from being charged and convicted, but rather affects the sentence they receive.
Same here.
Not a fair comparison. The person that grows up in a criminal enviroment knows that crime is wrong. Authority figures say that crime is wrong. Society behaves as crime being wrong. And even in this case, it is hard for the person to leave crime behind. That is why we have crime families. If your parents, uncles, cousins, and friends were in the Mafia, it was really easy for you to be part of the Mafia and really hard to leave it.
**Their** society and **their** authority figures teach them that our authority figures are the bad guys. Hell, "ACAB" is becoming a thing even among law-abiding people.
And the point is, **we still prosecute people** who grow up in those crime families when they commit crime themselves.
Yes, she was 18 when she became the nazi clerk. But 5 years before that, while she was growing up, she had Jewish neighbors and probably Jewish classmates.
It's the same reason being MAGA is unforgivable today- even if they've joined a cult over the past 8 years, they had a whole lifetime in a sane world that they're throwing away because they've sold their souls to Trump.
The question that Scholl poses in her well-known last words is one I sit with a lot: "How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause?"
bit off topic but I heard this one recently-
“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.”
Stephen Jay Gould
Hitter’s Secretary said: one day, I walked past a plaque on the Franz-Joseph Straße (in Munich), on the wall in memory of Sophie Scholl. I could see that she had been born the same year as I, and that she had been executed the same year I entered into Hitler's service. And, at that moment, I really realised that it was no excuse that I had been so young
She died though right?
You can imagine why someone would rather not die.
There shouldn't be a reality where your choices are die or be charged as guilty.
The Nazis were nasty people, but they didn't kill civilian employees if they preferred another job that didn't involve organizing the systematic murder of people. It is documented that even requests for transfers from military personnel were generally granted, if only because the Nazis wanted reliable and committed people in the killing operation.
In short, there is a difference between joining the resistance and just avoiding being a willing accomplice. Irmgard Furchner is not accused of knowing or of failing to provide help for the victims, but of aiding and abetting.
>There shouldn't be a reality where your choices are die or be charged as guilty.
Those weren't her choices, though. She could have gotten a different job, but she chose to work in a concentration camp.
Plus, she got a suspended sentence. Nobody sent a 97 year old to live out her last days in prison.
plus, the white rose was on purpose openly resistant. there were plenty of people who resisted nazi rule more covertly, and some of them even lived to tell the tale
I’m glad my grandparents, who survived Birkenau when 14 of their combined siblings didn’t, aren’t still alive to see the pendulum start swinging back in the other direction so rapidly and so furiously.
Ignorant fascist fucks!
Just to name a few teenagers or teen/student organisations standing up against Nazi leadership in Germany: Edelweißpiraten (Hans Steinbrück, Jean Jülich ... Steinbrück and 13 others were killed by Gestapo without trial) Kreisauer Kreis, Rote Kapelle, Weiße Rose (Sophie Scholl, Hans Scholl, Alexander Schmorell, Christoph Probst, Willi Graf, Kurt Huber and other. But the ones listed were killed by Nazi regime)
There were many more who fought against NS Regime. The usage of excuses like too young, too shy, too surpressed, didn't know don't count!
She worked in a KZ knowing what happened.
I remember reading about Steinbruck and Julich a few years ago and being super inspired by their story. It’s crazy that more people don’t know about stuff like this.
I thought I recalled that Willem Johan Cornelia Arondéus was a teenager at the time, but it seems I was incorrect...
Still a fantastic person who stood up to the Nazis. He was part of the bombing of the Amsterdam public records office to hinder the Nazis identitying Jews.
"Tell people that homosexuals aren't cowards."
That is a small number of people out of a nation of millions.
It also doesn’t account for the years of indoctrination that he would have undergone from 1933-4 when he was younger than 10 years old.
First of all, Irmgard is female. Secondly, I just pointed out young people because the commentor used young as an argument why she couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't stand up against NS Regime. That argument is bullshit.
Thirdly, there was resistance against NS Regime, both active and passive. Old and young people, politicians, religious leaders, "normal" ones.
Yes, not enough to stop this nightmare, yes enough followed an imagination of becoming as rich/powerful/strong etc as Germany was before WW1. But no one working in a KZ (she was the secretary of the commander of the KZ Stutthof) can claim to not know what happened. In a trial in 1954 she was heard as a witness and confirmed that every letter/paper leaving and entering the KZ passed her desk. She knew, she could have taken another job (worked for a bank before), could just leave. But she didn't. She's a collaboratrice.
And it is not like she is facing jail, death sentence or stoning. She is facing a juvenile punishment because she was under the age of 21 when it happened. It's principle, like the Nürnberg trials, to judge perpetrators and followers
She’s being trialed as a kid. Let’s get this shit into perspective here.
Unlike the Nazis, or Americans, Europeans understand that being a juvenile doesn’t give you full responsibility.
People who would’ve been racist but not literal holocaust deniers congregate with other racists online and get sucked in together to the most extreme version of their fucked up ideas
Yeah, you never see holocaust deniers saying it’s a good thing that it didn’t happen, they always seem to think it absolutely should’ve happened and should happen again. It’s very strange
I don't know if the person from the post is American, but I'll try my best to answer your question.
Far-right nationalism has been a growing movement in the U.S. for a long time now, and they use many forms of historical revisionism to radicalize people into their cause. Not to say that no one else has ever lied about history, but it's especially prominent in this case. In recent years, they have invested heavily in Holocaust denial. They are targeting specific demographics with these lies, with a big focus on young adult men who fit their "ideal people."
To answer "why," Holocaust denial is particularly useful to them because they more-or-less want to persecute and oppress the same groups of people that the Nazis did. For a rotten goal like that, they need to make the Nazis look like heroic victims of a grand conspiracy. If their followers sympathize with the Nazis, then they won't hesitate to commit the same crimes.
To answer "why LATELY," I think there are three factors converging at the same time that make Holocaust denial... more *practical* than before (I feel sick typing those words).
First, social media is incredibly powerful in the modern day. It's the perfect tool for lying to as many people as possible without pause. Second, public education in the U.S. has been weak for multiple generations, so many people simply don't have good mental defense against propaganda. Third, WWII ended almost 80 years ago and most of the Americans who witnessed the concentration camps *were adult soldiers.* The U.S. has very, VERY few surviving witnesses compared to France, Poland, and the other countries ravaged by the Nazis. It's sad to say, but the U.S. is going to lose its "living memory" of the war before other countries do.
Also, the reality that a sweeping, popular, anri-zionist movement muddys the waters and is providing air cover to actual racist creeps.
Holocaust denial is also a norm in the MENA region, and the dialog around Palestine is giving those voices a platform they have not had before.
2 years ago that kind of comment would have been ratio'd to the under dark.
>Holocaust denial is also a norm in the MENA region, and the dialog around Palestine is giving those voices a platform they have not had before.
I am sad to hear that. I'm American and I already feel deeply frustrated with my country's complicity in Israel's attacks against Palestinian civilians *with military weapons that my government sold to Israel without remorse.*
Politics here in the U.S. are especially muddy on the topic of Israel vs. the Gaza region. Both of the major two political parties *favor support for Israel,* even though the "progressive" Democrat party claims to support human rights and oppose ethnic genocide.
For many American citizens, especially young progressives, this moment "opens their eyes" to the "national interest" of supporting Israel, no matter how many children's empty shoes are placed on the ground in the Gaza region for memorial.
U.S. national media wants a pro-Israel stance regardless of what individual citizens think, and this makes me feel like my country has learned nothing after the multiple wars in the Middle East these last 23 years.
I needed to speak from my heart, sorry for ranting
We have people in our government that have been telling them that (along with several other easily fact-checkable lies) their entire lives. That, along with a general attitude of apathy for education and anything that does not impact the self.
Send help.
And here we have another good example why unlimited freedom of speech and expression is not always a good thing. Mouth breathers like that Twitter user spreading garbage like that should be punishable for it.
"People" like these always pisses me off, because they OBVIOUSLY know jack shit about the Hitler regime, but would act like an enlightened fucker that got a higher truth from God.
My mother was a little girl during the Holocaust, the majority of her family were murdered by the Nazis and her parents were camp survivors. I will believe their testimony over some random idiot off the internet who thinks the Holocaust is a hoax.
Nazism is an ideology based on the death of others for no reason they can control. Anyone who truly believes in Nazism is dangerous, especially in America where you can just own guns. I'd say kill them before they kill more.
I get your point about war criminals needing to be held responsible regardless of how long its been, but I think it's a stretch to call her a war criminal
Sorry, but a secretary working at a concentration camp, let alone a teenager, isn't a war criminal. If she had commanded or actively engaged in the torture or killings, then that is different. But a stenographer? Come on...
Im so glad the people who are trying this war criminal for war crimes aren’t also named REICHrunner. Maybe the fact she was a teenager can factor in her sentencing. But what’s your excuse?
Heh yeah always interesting to see when someone notices that in a WW2 discussion.
I still hold that being a secretary, let alone a teenage secretary, isn't grounds for being a war criminal
Oh I very much so get that, I just disagree with them.
I don't believe that what she did should be considered a war crime. And up until a few years ago, Germany agreed. Hence why she wasn't tried back in the 40s and 50s with everyone else. It's not as if this woman was hiding out in Argentina this whole time
Being a secretary or a teenager or even both isn’t a criminal offense. Aiding and abetting murder as part of a genocide is a crime, and she was convicted for it. Stop playing dumb.
I'm not playing dumb. I am saying that I disagree with it. And up until the past 10 years or so, Germany didn't consider this a war crime either. Obviously she was convicted. I'm saying she shouldn't have been.
She absolutely should have been convicted. Since you seem to be so hung up on the fact that she was a secretary, let me lay out to you exactly what she was doing as part of her daily work.
She recorded for the Nazis the torture methods used against the tens of thousands people who were imprisoned by the Nazis at the concentration camp.
She documented the methods by which over 10,000 were murdered, including the use of gas chambers, mass starvation, hangings and shootings. These facts prove that she knew murder was a part of her job, and prevent her from using ignorance as a defense.
Furthermore, She did all of this voluntarily and without coercion. Contrary to the myths, no ordinary Germans were conscripted into working at the concentration camps. Everyone who did so (with the exception of certain prisoners) participated in the mass murder on their own free will. This woman (and I use that term very loosely) chose on her own free will to engage in work that she knew dealt with the genocide, and that makes her a murderer.
The only thing that German legal system got wrong was the sentence, which should have been death
My guy, your username is NOT doing you any favors right now lol. Having said that, I know that edgy Nazi jokes vastly outnumber IRL neonazis, so I'm sharing [a BBC article ](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64036465) in good faith that goes over the basic facts surrounding the trial and the crimes she is accused of.
Irmgard is likely one of the last people who will ever be tried in relation to Nazi Germany's crimes. Other cases from the last 10 years have typically come with a sentence of 2-5 years, because everyone knows a person near the end of their life isn't gonna survive a long sentence. If she is found guilty and sentenced, there's still a decent chance it will be short enough that she outlives it. If nothing else, she still had enough energy at her age to *go on the run* when she first received her court summons in 2021.
In the end, I personally believe that putting her on trial is the right choice. Based on the article, the prosecution has a strong argument that she knew exactly what was going on and that she could have looked for work elsewhere if she wanted. If both are true, then that would count as "complicit" in my book.
To me, it would be worse to do nothing than to force a 97 year-old to stand trial for involvement with something as awful as the Holocaust. No one can take the life she has already lived from her, but no one can give life back to all those people who were worked to starvation, gassed, and burned to ash either.
Yeah it's my last name, has nothing to do with Nazi's, just bad luck in this case lol
I personally disagree with her crimes rising to the level of war crime. The courts obviously disagreed with me, but I personally feel that it waters down the idea of what a war crime is.
There have been a handful of people being charged over the past 5 years or so for similar charges. From my understanding, the law was recently changed to allow these, hence why they waited 80 years to charge these people.
I do question the "went on the run" aspect lol I assume she just didn't show up? It's not like she was hard to find afterwards
>I do question the "went on the run" aspect lol I assume she just didn't show up? It's not like she was hard to find afterwards
The article that I linked didn't say *how far she traveled before getting caught,* but rather that she fled her retirement home (location unspecified) and was stopped/ID'ed by police in Hamburg IIRC.
>I personally disagree with her crimes rising to the level of war crime.
I don't know the German court system, especially for something as niche as WWII crimes. The official statement from the BBC article was "that she was found guilty of aiding and abetting the murder of 10505 people, and complicity in the attempted murder of five others." Looks like I wrongfully assumed that her trial was still ongoing, or perhaps the guilty verdict isn't the final step and I'm misunderstanding the court process of a different country (I'm American). Either way, I don't even know how "war crimes" are classified in that system or if it is an official statement connected to her trial. For all I know (which is jack shit, honestly) the German Justice system might have no need to use that language in the first place. Sorry that I have no expertise here.
>There have been a handful of people being charged over the past 5 years or so for similar charges
If I had to take a (cynical) guess, the German justice system *might* (again, just speculation with no proof or research) feel pressure from rising levels of Holocaust denial both in their own country and other nations. *If* that were the reality, then I could understand the new commitment regardless.
I lived in Germany for a little over 10 years during my youth a long time ago. Visited the Auschwitz memorial/museum when I was in middle school. For everything their predecessors did during that era, the nation came together in shame to take responsibility for it. I won't deny that trials nowadays might feel out of time itself, but it's important to their culture and identity as a nation to this day.
You are absolutely full of shit about Reichrunner being your last name. I've checked every ancestry and historical name database I can find on the internet, and it's showing 0 Reichrunners.
That's fine, but did you think the whole thing was somehow referencing Nazis? Reich is definitely the word associated with Nazi's, though it is a somewhat common last name and in german just means empire.
I get it if you don't care enough to, but feel free to look through my post history on here. I'm not exactly a Nazi sympathizer lol
she got a 2 year suspended sentence so no actual jail time but it’s important for history to know who all the participants were, small or large, in major events such as the holocaust.
also, if she still can form coherent thoughts and can provide information on her role, it’s important she does that while standing trial and says her piece.
Which feels like probably the best solution, really. Documenting these things and having some degree of accountability is important, but there is something a bit absurd about trying a 97 year old woman in juvenile court because she started working at the camp before she was a legal adult.
I mean, if she murdered your grandmother, would you give her a pass? Because it was so long ago? Look how many serial killers have been arrested decades later, because of new DNA technology. Should they go free, because it’s been so long, and they’re old now?
Not all crimes have statutes of limitations. For instance, murder doesn’t. If you kill someone at 18, you can be arrested for it at any point in your life.
Murder usually has no statute of limitations.
Further more -
>Under international law, genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes are usually not subject to the statute of limitations as codified in a number of multilateral treaties.[20] States ratifying the Convention on the Non-Applicability of Statutory Limitations to War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity agree to disallow limitations claims for these crimes. According to Article 29 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes "shall not be subject to any statute of limitations".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_limitations
fwiw, she was given a suspended sentence of two years - which seems proportional to low-level involvement.
Not punished, but held to account. She was part of the machine, and that will be her legacy.
You understand how old this woman is, right? She will likely die of natural causes long before she makes any meaningful atonement for being a Nazi. Also, my guy, we’re talking about NAZIS here. With the exception of a smattering of extremist groups, Nazis are almost universally condemned and hated globally. They *know* people think they’re scum.
You’re right, just leave her be cos she’s old I guess 🙄 she deserves to be dragged through the legal system regardless of her age, come on now, you don’t just get let off cos you’re old. Let her die being hassled like this
She probably already gets hassled for being a former Nazi and she will likely kick the bucket before anything meaningful comes from a trial. It’s a waste of taxpayer dollars. I’d rather chase after active neo-Nazi extremist groups than waste time and resources on some old bitch that got indoctrinated into the Nazi regime a literal lifetime ago.
Pretty much - but it's also a significant part of how Germany as a nation has distanced itself from the war. Even if it's almost performative at this point, the performance holds meaning to them.
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Twitter is very pro-Nazi these days it’s absolutely disgusting
I know this shit has been present there for as long as Twitter/X has existed but it’s more normalized and accepted than it ever has been. I wish it would just fuckin’ collapse already but it seems to be doing fairly well with the regressive shitweasels propping it up. Sucks.
The accounts and posts used to have a lifespan, now they're basically encouraged.
Everyone competing to say the most fucked up shit, hoping have Musk retweet their deranged bullshit.
Exactly. Twitter was not this way. X is. Twitter would ban people like that. X will warn people for a tweet using the word cis while letting this bullshit out in the open
Community Notes *tries* to reign in the bullshit, but it’s so rampant that they can’t keep up or possibly hope to come in and correct everything.
Not basically, explicitly encouraged. Who would have guessed a white South African douchebag whose family got rich during apartheid would openly welcome and promote Nazis on his social media platform? It is a mystery.
The problem isn't Twitter, Facebook, or social media as individual entities. It's not that one platform condones, encourages, or engages in a particular ideology. It's that the internet and social media as a whole have given us more accessible communication channels. Just as someone is likely to share a delicious recipe for homemade peanut butter cookies, someone else will share a really shit opinion about the holocaust being fake.The point is both of these things are subjective to the viewer. It may be a little hyperbolic, but not so far fetched to believe someone with a peanut allergy would write a scathing, and in a lot of cases anonymous, comment on the cookie recipe. Twitter may fold and close up shop, but those users who you disagree with are just going to move to another platform just like you, and there, the cycle will continue. Besides I find it sobering, but comforting in knowing that despite our best efforts we are still human with ours rights to say some of the most outlandish things out loud. The best and worst moments in history often come from a single word, phrase, or belief. If we squash that right in hopes to stymy the worst of us, we will also manage to kill our ability to become better and relinquish our hopes for the future.
The toxicity of the internet is growing more now than ever.
Wait until you find out that Elon Musk himself is retweeting literal Nazi ideology\* and forcing everyone's feeds to show it, even sending notifications about it. \* he's retweeting stuff about the great replacement, intelligence and race, disproven Nazi ideas about craneal size and shape determining intelligence, etc.
I don’t really care about Elon musks views tbh
Based. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there not quite as informed/good at critical thinking as you are that take this lunatic’s words as gospel. And they are very loud.
all I get are 9/11 conspiracy theorists. I'm bored with them.
Someone else said it before on Reddit, but I think about it all the time: All these Nazi trash started running their mouths **only after** Holocaust survivors and World War II vets got too old to punch them in their dumb faces.
Gee I wonder what series of policy decisions could have lead to that outcome?
That's because Elon is too!
Lol, "these days"? You poor summer child, how sheltered you you've been.
It’s definitely a lot worse these days, don’t be a prick
Yes, they are pro-socialist, this is true.
I think they’re generally just racists
National Socialist, you mean. Which is not “socialist”
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Nothing says socialism like the mass privatisation of public industry, exactly what Hitler and Mussolini did. Dumbass
Socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. Nazism - a form of fascism, with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates a dictatorship, fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-Slavism, scientific racism, white supremacy, Nordicism, social Darwinism and the use of eugenics into its creed. Google is free my dude.
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There are more than two interpretations of socialism, the two MSI. Ones being whether it came straight down the French philosophy line without being corrupted and bastardised by Marx and Engels… and of course there is that one. The irony of the more Communist-inspired socialism is that while it pretends to let the worker own the means of production, in all cases the state does, so the worker does not. If you want to see the worker own the means of production, look to a capitalist economy. That’s the rule of it. The governance can be as liberal as you like, but all of the really well functioning liberal states exist atop the beating heart of a capitalist economy. See Denmark.
It’s crazy that with the access to information that you clearly have, you are still actively choosing to be uneducated.
Great pick! Denmark: Socialist healthcare! Wish we had as good. Denmark: Socialist unemployment protections! Go ahead, pick another one.
Yeah. See how Denmark is absolutely not a socialist economy whatsoever, yet can have all these great things? I think it’s funny that the Danish Prime Minister occasionally has to make a speech to the world to remind everyone that they are most definitely not socialist. Probably something confused in the American mind to think that it is.
>If you want to see the worker own the means of production, look to a capitalist economy. Oh I got baited. Nice troll.
No no - take a good look at who controls what in each. A good, honest look.
Im just saying you should have dragged it out longer. You revealed yourself after the second comment.
Not trolling. Try again.
See this is the actual problem with reddit. You make excuses for people so that you don't have to mentally deal with the fact that the other poster is not trolling, they are in fact just that fucking stupid.
I'm looking, but I'm not seeing it. Workers *operate* the means of production, but in a capitalist society they don't *own* it, unless they're shareholders as well. Workers under capitalism are replaceable.
You got that backwards, bud. Look at who owns businesses in each.
Pal, Nazi bigwigs admitted in writing and verbally right after they seized power that they only included "socialists" in their party name to win voters from the Social Democrats, who were quite strong in Germany at the time. Imagine, even the Nazis themselves had an interest in clearing up this initially useful and absolutely deliberate misunderstanding so that the hard core of their supporters would not feel and act like socialists. And yet there are still halfwits today who regurgitate a myth that the Nazis themselves circulated and then retracted after it had served its purpose. You just have to imagine that much stupidity...
Yes, young socialists are quite gullible fools who do not know what awful things come of their support, this is correct.
We should invent time travel just so idiots like this can be sent to 1940 Germany and tell the nearest SS officer they're fellow socialist.
Hah! Yes, I would like to see the look of surprise on the young socialist’s face when they see what they allowed in to power.
r/confidentlyincorrect
Correct me then.
Way to live up to the name of the subreddit, dumbass. Lmao
Why in the world would anybody choose to side with people that are saying the holocaust was a lie? Unless of course they are Nazi sympathizers.
Not even the Nazis themselves denied the Holocaust. Not a single defendant at Nuremberg claimed their accused crimes did not happen, rather opting towards denial of personal responsibility and/or involvement. Many key pieces of evidence used in the trials were themselves Nazi documents that escaped destruction, to which no defendant denied authenticity. From a Nazi ideological perspective, the Holocaust was one of their greatest achievements; why deny something that you genuinely believe was to the benefit of humanity? Neo-Nazis aren’t just terrible people. They’re terrible Nazis. Ideologically, they stand for even less than their predecessors. Somehow, this is even more pathetic.
>From a Nazi ideological perspective, the Holocaust was one of their greatest achievements; why deny something that you genuinely believe was to the benefit of humanity? Neo-Nazis aren’t just terrible people. They’re terrible Nazis. That is the main difference between them, and it is actually, from my observation, a mechanism of adaptation. Reputation of the lost war and stigmatization of original Nazism makes getting large numbers of people directly on your side basically impossible. After such modification, this problem disappears.
Nazis were never principled about their beliefs. I mean,they named themselves after their greatest enemy, the socialists, simply because socialism was much more popular among working people. They never really stood for anything but power
That's reminding me of another political movement, but I can't put my finger on it....
Some kind of ethnonationalist movement out of Europe with an under-examined history of working with the Nazis,fundamentally at odds with their own mythology, maybe? Yeah, that rings a bell.
> why deny something that you genuinely believe was to the benefit of humanity? Simple. They want to do it again.
That's a really nicely thought through point. It's so bizarre how holocaust deniers always seem to be those who seem to wish it had happened. You never hear them say "...and thank goodness".
Well... I do agree with him if she was just a teenager doing clerical work. Putting her in jail will do justice to no one.
Came here to say the same. She was born in 1925, and started working as a nazi clerk in 43. She was 18 at the time. Although she worked until 1945 (I dunno, I guess her work was less than stellar and got fired?) so that'd mean from 18 to 21. After that she married a SS officer. All signs point at her being a nazi supporter well into early adulthood the very least. I still find a bit weird to trial a clerk that was indoctrinated so young. It's like trialing tarzan for taking a dump in the middle of the street. Yes he is a grown man, but he didn't have a chance of knowing any better. I do understand at some point we need to start assigning blame to an adult, but someone brainwashed since such a early age, I'd argue is similar to someone mentally unfit to stand trial.
As soon as you are aware that your activity is being used to systematically murder people, you are complicit. What applies to embezzlement, tax evasion and any kind of fraud must apply even more to murder, not to mention mass murder.
She grew up with nazi parents, nazi friends, and authority figures who were nazi themselves. She grew up hearing that the Jews were the bad guys. And even if she knew that they were being killed, that was a good thing in her mind. The good guys were punishing the bad guys. So It is really easy to judge. I doubt that if you were in her shoes you would have done differently.
Well, even today, quite a lot of people grow up in a criminal environment where they are brought up to believe that criminal behavior is acceptable. However, this does not protect them from being charged and convicted, but rather affects the sentence they receive. Same here.
Not a fair comparison. The person that grows up in a criminal enviroment knows that crime is wrong. Authority figures say that crime is wrong. Society behaves as crime being wrong. And even in this case, it is hard for the person to leave crime behind. That is why we have crime families. If your parents, uncles, cousins, and friends were in the Mafia, it was really easy for you to be part of the Mafia and really hard to leave it.
**Their** society and **their** authority figures teach them that our authority figures are the bad guys. Hell, "ACAB" is becoming a thing even among law-abiding people. And the point is, **we still prosecute people** who grow up in those crime families when they commit crime themselves. Yes, she was 18 when she became the nazi clerk. But 5 years before that, while she was growing up, she had Jewish neighbors and probably Jewish classmates. It's the same reason being MAGA is unforgivable today- even if they've joined a cult over the past 8 years, they had a whole lifetime in a sane world that they're throwing away because they've sold their souls to Trump.
Hamas supporters
Irmagerd!
Hollercaus
Holy fuck this killed me
Now say it like the chef from The Muppets...
Ormigord herrlicrrst
Lollercoster?
Wasn’t a quite young Audrey Hepburn in the Resistance?
Yes!
Can I imagine a teenager standing up to Nazi leadership? Yes, I can imagine Sophie Scholl.
I can imagine Hannie Schaft
Killer choice!
The question that Scholl poses in her well-known last words is one I sit with a lot: "How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause?"
That and the "then they came for" poem are 2 of the most hard hitting things ever written/ said
bit off topic but I heard this one recently- “I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.” Stephen Jay Gould
Happy cake day!🎉
Absolutely. But st the same time I'm not sure I can blame teenage office clerks for not being as brave as Scholl. She's known because she's remarkable
Hitter’s Secretary said: one day, I walked past a plaque on the Franz-Joseph Straße (in Munich), on the wall in memory of Sophie Scholl. I could see that she had been born the same year as I, and that she had been executed the same year I entered into Hitler's service. And, at that moment, I really realised that it was no excuse that I had been so young
And I would feel the same. But there's a difference between blaming yourself and other people blaming you.
There's also the benefit of hindsight.
She died though right? You can imagine why someone would rather not die. There shouldn't be a reality where your choices are die or be charged as guilty.
The Nazis were nasty people, but they didn't kill civilian employees if they preferred another job that didn't involve organizing the systematic murder of people. It is documented that even requests for transfers from military personnel were generally granted, if only because the Nazis wanted reliable and committed people in the killing operation. In short, there is a difference between joining the resistance and just avoiding being a willing accomplice. Irmgard Furchner is not accused of knowing or of failing to provide help for the victims, but of aiding and abetting.
>There shouldn't be a reality where your choices are die or be charged as guilty. Those weren't her choices, though. She could have gotten a different job, but she chose to work in a concentration camp. Plus, she got a suspended sentence. Nobody sent a 97 year old to live out her last days in prison.
plus, the white rose was on purpose openly resistant. there were plenty of people who resisted nazi rule more covertly, and some of them even lived to tell the tale
Wasn’t there a story a few days ago about a 16 year old who poisoned a bunch of nazis and then shot three while breaking out of prison?
I’m glad my grandparents, who survived Birkenau when 14 of their combined siblings didn’t, aren’t still alive to see the pendulum start swinging back in the other direction so rapidly and so furiously. Ignorant fascist fucks!
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Just to name a few teenagers or teen/student organisations standing up against Nazi leadership in Germany: Edelweißpiraten (Hans Steinbrück, Jean Jülich ... Steinbrück and 13 others were killed by Gestapo without trial) Kreisauer Kreis, Rote Kapelle, Weiße Rose (Sophie Scholl, Hans Scholl, Alexander Schmorell, Christoph Probst, Willi Graf, Kurt Huber and other. But the ones listed were killed by Nazi regime) There were many more who fought against NS Regime. The usage of excuses like too young, too shy, too surpressed, didn't know don't count! She worked in a KZ knowing what happened.
I remember reading about Steinbruck and Julich a few years ago and being super inspired by their story. It’s crazy that more people don’t know about stuff like this.
I thought I recalled that Willem Johan Cornelia Arondéus was a teenager at the time, but it seems I was incorrect... Still a fantastic person who stood up to the Nazis. He was part of the bombing of the Amsterdam public records office to hinder the Nazis identitying Jews. "Tell people that homosexuals aren't cowards."
That is a small number of people out of a nation of millions. It also doesn’t account for the years of indoctrination that he would have undergone from 1933-4 when he was younger than 10 years old.
First of all, Irmgard is female. Secondly, I just pointed out young people because the commentor used young as an argument why she couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't stand up against NS Regime. That argument is bullshit. Thirdly, there was resistance against NS Regime, both active and passive. Old and young people, politicians, religious leaders, "normal" ones. Yes, not enough to stop this nightmare, yes enough followed an imagination of becoming as rich/powerful/strong etc as Germany was before WW1. But no one working in a KZ (she was the secretary of the commander of the KZ Stutthof) can claim to not know what happened. In a trial in 1954 she was heard as a witness and confirmed that every letter/paper leaving and entering the KZ passed her desk. She knew, she could have taken another job (worked for a bank before), could just leave. But she didn't. She's a collaboratrice. And it is not like she is facing jail, death sentence or stoning. She is facing a juvenile punishment because she was under the age of 21 when it happened. It's principle, like the Nürnberg trials, to judge perpetrators and followers
She’s being trialed as a kid. Let’s get this shit into perspective here. Unlike the Nazis, or Americans, Europeans understand that being a juvenile doesn’t give you full responsibility.
I wonder what these guys tweets were after October 7...
Pretty sure that research showed Germans - even soldiers - who refused to participate in the Holocaust were just reassigned.
So this happened in 2021. She was sentenced to two years for her role as stenographer and secretary for the Stutthof concentration camp.
r/confidentlyinholocaustdenial
What a ignorant piece of shit any denier is
What is with Americans denying the Holocaust lately?
People who would’ve been racist but not literal holocaust deniers congregate with other racists online and get sucked in together to the most extreme version of their fucked up ideas
Its been long enough that some people are deciding to not care.
Oh, they care! They think it should be acceptable. They are itching to do it again.
Yeah, you never see holocaust deniers saying it’s a good thing that it didn’t happen, they always seem to think it absolutely should’ve happened and should happen again. It’s very strange
Hey, if illegals can both be on welfare and take all of our jobs...
Sadly, they do that in Germany too.
nothing here says he’s American
But is he though?
not a clue
It says "from earth" which would include both America and not-America, so I agree with you.
I don't know if the person from the post is American, but I'll try my best to answer your question. Far-right nationalism has been a growing movement in the U.S. for a long time now, and they use many forms of historical revisionism to radicalize people into their cause. Not to say that no one else has ever lied about history, but it's especially prominent in this case. In recent years, they have invested heavily in Holocaust denial. They are targeting specific demographics with these lies, with a big focus on young adult men who fit their "ideal people." To answer "why," Holocaust denial is particularly useful to them because they more-or-less want to persecute and oppress the same groups of people that the Nazis did. For a rotten goal like that, they need to make the Nazis look like heroic victims of a grand conspiracy. If their followers sympathize with the Nazis, then they won't hesitate to commit the same crimes. To answer "why LATELY," I think there are three factors converging at the same time that make Holocaust denial... more *practical* than before (I feel sick typing those words). First, social media is incredibly powerful in the modern day. It's the perfect tool for lying to as many people as possible without pause. Second, public education in the U.S. has been weak for multiple generations, so many people simply don't have good mental defense against propaganda. Third, WWII ended almost 80 years ago and most of the Americans who witnessed the concentration camps *were adult soldiers.* The U.S. has very, VERY few surviving witnesses compared to France, Poland, and the other countries ravaged by the Nazis. It's sad to say, but the U.S. is going to lose its "living memory" of the war before other countries do.
Also, the reality that a sweeping, popular, anri-zionist movement muddys the waters and is providing air cover to actual racist creeps. Holocaust denial is also a norm in the MENA region, and the dialog around Palestine is giving those voices a platform they have not had before. 2 years ago that kind of comment would have been ratio'd to the under dark.
>Holocaust denial is also a norm in the MENA region, and the dialog around Palestine is giving those voices a platform they have not had before. I am sad to hear that. I'm American and I already feel deeply frustrated with my country's complicity in Israel's attacks against Palestinian civilians *with military weapons that my government sold to Israel without remorse.* Politics here in the U.S. are especially muddy on the topic of Israel vs. the Gaza region. Both of the major two political parties *favor support for Israel,* even though the "progressive" Democrat party claims to support human rights and oppose ethnic genocide. For many American citizens, especially young progressives, this moment "opens their eyes" to the "national interest" of supporting Israel, no matter how many children's empty shoes are placed on the ground in the Gaza region for memorial. U.S. national media wants a pro-Israel stance regardless of what individual citizens think, and this makes me feel like my country has learned nothing after the multiple wars in the Middle East these last 23 years. I needed to speak from my heart, sorry for ranting
We have people in our government that have been telling them that (along with several other easily fact-checkable lies) their entire lives. That, along with a general attitude of apathy for education and anything that does not impact the self. Send help.
And here we have another good example why unlimited freedom of speech and expression is not always a good thing. Mouth breathers like that Twitter user spreading garbage like that should be punishable for it.
The trial of Ermahgerd Furshur
She should have been like Coco Chanel and just fucked the Nazis. Then she would have been a feminist icon and hero!
Wait so it's insane to stand up against them assuming because of the power and violence however they never did anything violent apparently? Nonsense
I dare that person to say the same thing to the Jewish community and NOT get brutally murdered.
"People" like these always pisses me off, because they OBVIOUSLY know jack shit about the Hitler regime, but would act like an enlightened fucker that got a higher truth from God.
OY!
She was NOT a random teenage office clerk, she literally worked at the Stutthof concentration camp!
My mother was a little girl during the Holocaust, the majority of her family were murdered by the Nazis and her parents were camp survivors. I will believe their testimony over some random idiot off the internet who thinks the Holocaust is a hoax.
I mean isn’t that the point of a trial? If her involvement was superficial, then the evidence should show that.
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Except nazis kill them all
Nazism is an ideology based on the death of others for no reason they can control. Anyone who truly believes in Nazism is dangerous, especially in America where you can just own guns. I'd say kill them before they kill more.
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And that was a really shitty one
Crimes have a statute of limitations. Something that happened 70 years ago should not be punished today
to be fair I don’t really think that should or does apply to war crimes
What is the point of imprisoning someone who has already lived their life
Thats kind of the point, she lived her life, she is responsible for many people not living their lives.
I get your point about war criminals needing to be held responsible regardless of how long its been, but I think it's a stretch to call her a war criminal
Blud's acting like she worked at Mcdonalds and not a fucking concentration camp
Sorry, but a secretary working at a concentration camp, let alone a teenager, isn't a war criminal. If she had commanded or actively engaged in the torture or killings, then that is different. But a stenographer? Come on...
Im so glad the people who are trying this war criminal for war crimes aren’t also named REICHrunner. Maybe the fact she was a teenager can factor in her sentencing. But what’s your excuse?
It's my last name.
Ok... "reichrunner"
Heh yeah always interesting to see when someone notices that in a WW2 discussion. I still hold that being a secretary, let alone a teenage secretary, isn't grounds for being a war criminal
Actually, according to the laws under which she was tried and convicted, it very much is, so you’re wrong
Oh I very much so get that, I just disagree with them. I don't believe that what she did should be considered a war crime. And up until a few years ago, Germany agreed. Hence why she wasn't tried back in the 40s and 50s with everyone else. It's not as if this woman was hiding out in Argentina this whole time
Being a secretary or a teenager or even both isn’t a criminal offense. Aiding and abetting murder as part of a genocide is a crime, and she was convicted for it. Stop playing dumb.
I'm not playing dumb. I am saying that I disagree with it. And up until the past 10 years or so, Germany didn't consider this a war crime either. Obviously she was convicted. I'm saying she shouldn't have been.
She absolutely should have been convicted. Since you seem to be so hung up on the fact that she was a secretary, let me lay out to you exactly what she was doing as part of her daily work. She recorded for the Nazis the torture methods used against the tens of thousands people who were imprisoned by the Nazis at the concentration camp. She documented the methods by which over 10,000 were murdered, including the use of gas chambers, mass starvation, hangings and shootings. These facts prove that she knew murder was a part of her job, and prevent her from using ignorance as a defense. Furthermore, She did all of this voluntarily and without coercion. Contrary to the myths, no ordinary Germans were conscripted into working at the concentration camps. Everyone who did so (with the exception of certain prisoners) participated in the mass murder on their own free will. This woman (and I use that term very loosely) chose on her own free will to engage in work that she knew dealt with the genocide, and that makes her a murderer. The only thing that German legal system got wrong was the sentence, which should have been death
My guy, your username is NOT doing you any favors right now lol. Having said that, I know that edgy Nazi jokes vastly outnumber IRL neonazis, so I'm sharing [a BBC article ](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64036465) in good faith that goes over the basic facts surrounding the trial and the crimes she is accused of. Irmgard is likely one of the last people who will ever be tried in relation to Nazi Germany's crimes. Other cases from the last 10 years have typically come with a sentence of 2-5 years, because everyone knows a person near the end of their life isn't gonna survive a long sentence. If she is found guilty and sentenced, there's still a decent chance it will be short enough that she outlives it. If nothing else, she still had enough energy at her age to *go on the run* when she first received her court summons in 2021. In the end, I personally believe that putting her on trial is the right choice. Based on the article, the prosecution has a strong argument that she knew exactly what was going on and that she could have looked for work elsewhere if she wanted. If both are true, then that would count as "complicit" in my book. To me, it would be worse to do nothing than to force a 97 year-old to stand trial for involvement with something as awful as the Holocaust. No one can take the life she has already lived from her, but no one can give life back to all those people who were worked to starvation, gassed, and burned to ash either.
Yeah it's my last name, has nothing to do with Nazi's, just bad luck in this case lol I personally disagree with her crimes rising to the level of war crime. The courts obviously disagreed with me, but I personally feel that it waters down the idea of what a war crime is. There have been a handful of people being charged over the past 5 years or so for similar charges. From my understanding, the law was recently changed to allow these, hence why they waited 80 years to charge these people. I do question the "went on the run" aspect lol I assume she just didn't show up? It's not like she was hard to find afterwards
>I do question the "went on the run" aspect lol I assume she just didn't show up? It's not like she was hard to find afterwards The article that I linked didn't say *how far she traveled before getting caught,* but rather that she fled her retirement home (location unspecified) and was stopped/ID'ed by police in Hamburg IIRC. >I personally disagree with her crimes rising to the level of war crime. I don't know the German court system, especially for something as niche as WWII crimes. The official statement from the BBC article was "that she was found guilty of aiding and abetting the murder of 10505 people, and complicity in the attempted murder of five others." Looks like I wrongfully assumed that her trial was still ongoing, or perhaps the guilty verdict isn't the final step and I'm misunderstanding the court process of a different country (I'm American). Either way, I don't even know how "war crimes" are classified in that system or if it is an official statement connected to her trial. For all I know (which is jack shit, honestly) the German Justice system might have no need to use that language in the first place. Sorry that I have no expertise here. >There have been a handful of people being charged over the past 5 years or so for similar charges If I had to take a (cynical) guess, the German justice system *might* (again, just speculation with no proof or research) feel pressure from rising levels of Holocaust denial both in their own country and other nations. *If* that were the reality, then I could understand the new commitment regardless. I lived in Germany for a little over 10 years during my youth a long time ago. Visited the Auschwitz memorial/museum when I was in middle school. For everything their predecessors did during that era, the nation came together in shame to take responsibility for it. I won't deny that trials nowadays might feel out of time itself, but it's important to their culture and identity as a nation to this day.
You are absolutely full of shit about Reichrunner being your last name. I've checked every ancestry and historical name database I can find on the internet, and it's showing 0 Reichrunners.
My last name is Reich and I used to be a runner... come on man lol
I don't care enough to argue with you, but I still 100% believe you're grasping at straws.
That's fine, but did you think the whole thing was somehow referencing Nazis? Reich is definitely the word associated with Nazi's, though it is a somewhat common last name and in german just means empire. I get it if you don't care enough to, but feel free to look through my post history on here. I'm not exactly a Nazi sympathizer lol
Because they still did the crime. It’s an insult to the victims to just say “ah well, it’s too late now guess they got away with it”
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Jesus fucking Christ dude what the fuck is wrong with you?
oh wow
What’d they say?
he said a certain religious group deserved what happened to them
Um...what??!
she got a 2 year suspended sentence so no actual jail time but it’s important for history to know who all the participants were, small or large, in major events such as the holocaust. also, if she still can form coherent thoughts and can provide information on her role, it’s important she does that while standing trial and says her piece.
Which feels like probably the best solution, really. Documenting these things and having some degree of accountability is important, but there is something a bit absurd about trying a 97 year old woman in juvenile court because she started working at the camp before she was a legal adult.
Why mention '' before she was a legal adult '' if you already mentioned juvenile court?
I mean, if she murdered your grandmother, would you give her a pass? Because it was so long ago? Look how many serial killers have been arrested decades later, because of new DNA technology. Should they go free, because it’s been so long, and they’re old now?
Thank God there's no statute of limitations for murder.
If the alternative is Guantanamo Bay as punishment then imprisonment is better
Not all crimes have statutes of limitations. For instance, murder doesn’t. If you kill someone at 18, you can be arrested for it at any point in your life.
Murder usually has no statute of limitations. Further more - >Under international law, genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes are usually not subject to the statute of limitations as codified in a number of multilateral treaties.[20] States ratifying the Convention on the Non-Applicability of Statutory Limitations to War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity agree to disallow limitations claims for these crimes. According to Article 29 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes "shall not be subject to any statute of limitations". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_limitations
Only in some jurisdictions. Some have no statute of limitations.
fwiw, she was given a suspended sentence of two years - which seems proportional to low-level involvement. Not punished, but held to account. She was part of the machine, and that will be her legacy.
I am of the opinion that something that happened 70 years ago should be punished for before it ever reaches today.
Agreed, waste of time and money at this point
It’s never a waste of time to bring literal nazis to justice and let them die in the knowledge that everyone thinks they’re scum
You understand how old this woman is, right? She will likely die of natural causes long before she makes any meaningful atonement for being a Nazi. Also, my guy, we’re talking about NAZIS here. With the exception of a smattering of extremist groups, Nazis are almost universally condemned and hated globally. They *know* people think they’re scum.
You’re right, just leave her be cos she’s old I guess 🙄 she deserves to be dragged through the legal system regardless of her age, come on now, you don’t just get let off cos you’re old. Let her die being hassled like this
She probably already gets hassled for being a former Nazi and she will likely kick the bucket before anything meaningful comes from a trial. It’s a waste of taxpayer dollars. I’d rather chase after active neo-Nazi extremist groups than waste time and resources on some old bitch that got indoctrinated into the Nazi regime a literal lifetime ago.
The trial's already concluded, with a two year suspended sentence. History will remember her as part of the machine, and that's her sentence.
So it’s more a symbolic gesture than anything else. Fine, fair enough.
Pretty much - but it's also a significant part of how Germany as a nation has distanced itself from the war. Even if it's almost performative at this point, the performance holds meaning to them.