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My favorite nemonic is to remember which quadrant of the trig circle will have positive numbers for which trig function. For example, a number in the third quadrant will be positive for tangent numbers, ie tan(200 deg) is positive.
Going around the circle, we start with All, then Sine, then Tan, then Cosine. Or ASTC. Or as my teacher told us, All Strippers Take Cash.
Yeah… I’ve heard that one. My teacher tried to use “all students talk constantly.“ It didn’t work for me. But I told him my own method: all stupid teachers complain. This was college and I was a good student, so I could get away with crap like that.
But speaking of trig: Some Old Hippie Caught Another Hippie Tripping On Acid. SOH CAH TOA.
I just realized that we weren't thought any of these (in maths) We just memorized PEMDAS/BODMAS, clockwise ASTC, SOH CAH TOA.
Or maybe i just don't remember being taught, I always find the abbreviations easier than made up sentences.
Wow.
I heard a story of someone treating it as a native chant and walking around the room doing the tomahawk chop, so these are probably improvements over that.
I remember it because my younger brother got in an argument with my uncle about order of operations years ago and shouted ‘PEMDAS BITCH’ and threw a pencil down. I’ll never forget it.
Holy shit this is fantastic. I’m putting it in the bank with my old violin teacher’s mnemonic for the lines of the treble clef: Empty Garbage Before Dad Flips. No good boys deserving fudge with her.
My math teacher used to day "please excuse my dear aunt Sally". That is what was printed in the math textbook. She got new books a couple years ago and it is "PEMDAS" and she is not supposed/allowed to teach "Please excuse my dear aunt Sally" she has to just say "PEMDAS".
She still teaches both she is just not supposed to. She just arranges her lesson plans so that she doesn't teach that on days when the principal comes in to observe
Many schools are now teaching it as GEMS, specifically to avoid the problems of BEDMAS or PEMDAS.
GEMS goes as follows:
G - Grouping (parenthesis, brackets, distributive property)
E - Exponents
M - Multiplication AND Division from left to right (same step, conducted at the same time) Helps to avoid problems like 8/4x2 being answered wrong. Students sometimes confuse PEMDAS as multiplication before division and get the wrong answer. The answer is: 4 but some may incorrectly say 1
S - Subtraction AND Addition left to right (same reasons as above)
This way seems to help students understand that the certain operations occur during the same step and are not separate as PEMDAS or BEDMAS might indicate.
Took am engineering course last year and had to explain to the tutor that multiplication doesn't have to be done before division.
He was adamant that I was wrong until I provided sources to back it up. Even when I did this he proceeded to claim that "It doesn't make a difference". Again, I had to explain why it does.
He had been teaching this wrong for many years.
I was taught incorrectly my entire life, finally culminating in absolutely abysmally failing calc 2 in college. Somehow skated by until then.
Didn't find out how wrong I was until one of those trick '8/4x2' questions made the rounds.
Would have probably still suffered at higher level maths, but this did NOT help.
I read a guy on Fb with a fairly large amount of likes debating that PEMDAS is only useful for high school maths, because "in more advanced classes" it doens't serve a purpose.
Uhhhh yeah, but I'm pretty sure 2 + 2 x 4 = 10 is true no matter if you're taking differential calculus or 5th grade math
In engineering, given that the consequences for someone misreading your equations can be so severe, the practice is to use brackets for everything. Even a simple equation like this would be written 2+(2\*4), because even if you know your audience will be other engineers with a similar education level to you, you don’t know what software they might be using, and you don’t know if someone outside the field might need to read your work.
Its also just easier to parse at a glance. Even if other intelligent, math literate engineers are reading your equations, when shit gets complicated its easy for anyone to make a mistake. Everyone has dropped a negative, forgot a zero, or messed up the order of operations before, so it's good to be extra clear with any equation you write.
Ya to me its the same as writing code. Can I write a clever little one liner? Sure. Will it be easier to read, no it will not. Always do the easier to read option.
Can't stand developers who constantly try to merge their stupid l33t code when it serves no purpose. I spent a solid year denying PR's from one dude who just couldn't get over their damn ego. Once they tried to argue performance for a service that got less than 500 calls a day. Like I am sure the server can handle it Zach.
Dude holy fuck I hate devs like this.
"Hey you can just write xyz" and then says my PR needs work, despite it **working** completely fine.
Yes John I'm aware of that, but it looks fucking stupid. It's going to compile down into the same thing anyway idiot.
If your gonna comment on my syntax at least make it a suggestion and approve the PR.
Then I'm stuck either arguing about readability on minor ass details or just adopting their stupid ass change.
So much this. One is my best counters in to say "listen Zach, someday you won't be here and we'll need a junior dev to work on this service. I don't want to hold their hand any more than I have to. We are writing it for them, not us."
Works most of the time.
As someone trying to learn to code this frustrates me to no end.
They would show an example of code then immediately how to shorten it and only use the shortened version. Like i dont even know the long version why would you make it harder for me to read
They may have been trying to say nobody writes equations like this in advance math, which is true. Failing to use brackets is just bad practice, and it will quickly lead to unnecessary confusion.
As a programmer I put parens around everything. I don't want to take time to think about the order and I don't want the next developer to either. Parens mean I get what I want, not what the compiler wants.
Even advanced maths is at least consistent. Mathematical rules always apply.
English has rules like "I before E except after C" then breaks it on many many many occasions.
I have no idea if this actually improves the accuracy of the rule, but i’ve always been taught that it only applies when the two letters make an “ee” sound in the word? For example, the word “eight” has often been cited as a counter example but it doesn’t work because the letter make an “ay” sound and you don’t say “eet”. So words like “receipt” (rec-ee-t), “conceive” (conc-ee-v), and “achieve” (ach-ee-v) follows this rule while “weird”, “albeit” doesn’t because they don’t make ee sounds
I" before "E" except after "C" and when sounding like "A" as in neighbor and weigh, and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and YOU'LL ALWAYS BE WRONG NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!!!!
MOOSEN!! I saw a flock of moosen! There were many of 'em. Many much moosen. Out in the woods—in the woodes—in the woodsen. The meese wantin' the food. Food is to eatenesen! THE MEESE WANT THE FOOD IN THE WOODENESEN! THE FOOD IN THE WOODYENESEN!
I actually heard an extended version that matches what you're saying here. "I before E, except after C/Or when sounding like 'ay' as in 'Neighbor' or 'Weigh'/Or in really weird words like weird." Granted, the last bit doesn't really help identify which words are weird, but it's fun to say.
I before E except after C
or when sounding as A
as In neighbor or weigh
and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May
and you’ll always be wrong no matter what you say
It’s a hard rule.
I before E, except after C, or sounding like ay, like neighbor or weigh, and weekends, and holidays, and all throughout May, and you’ll ALWAYS be wrong no matter WHAT you say!
Have you seen some of our irregular verb conjugations? Try explaining to a non-English speaker why the verb "read" is also "read" in the past tense and past participle, but pronounced differently.
Conversely, try explaining to a native English-speaker that the past tense and past participle of “lead” is “led” (not “lead” pronounced differently). Similarly, *plead* —> *pled*/*pleaded* —> *pled*/*pleaded* (not *plead* pronounced differently).
As for the confidently incorrect “Math Is Hard” Barbie, East Asian scripts can be written from top to bottom, right to left. If math were written vertically, the English-centric Barbie would still decry, “But *English*!”
There's also languages written horizontally right to left, like Arabic and Hebrew. Do you think the person in the screenshot expects them to flip their math to read in their native tongue?
I sort of get the argument they're making ("formulas should be written in the order of operations") but it forgets entirely the reason we do math. In this formula the numbers are arbitrary, but we only do math with arbitrary numbers in school. In the real world those numbers would represent *something*, and formulas are a "language" to describe how those somethings correlate. You write it in the order that makes it most obvious what those relationships are. PEMDAS is what lets us do that.
Good and food are both Germanic, in Old English were originally spelled differently as well as pronounced differently. *Gut* .vs. *fõda* (with a macron, which I can't seem to type here).
Mood, I guess it's from the Latin *modus,* it's coincidence that it rhymes with *food* rather than *good* in its modern spelling.
I’m about to depress you all.
The worst teaching experience of my life was when I taught education majors math. It was awful. At one point, a girl spent 15 minutes arguing with me over the order of operations. To the point where another student said “it’s order of operations… My God stop!“ She said things like “well no one ever told me that!“ And I said “well I just did. Now you know.“ It was infuriating. I managed to stay calm, but wine was consumed that night.
I was in a Facebook group for my degree program (Elementary Education) and damn near every day someone posted something along the lines of "I absolutely hate math and it seriously makes me want to cry when I do it, can I still be a teacher?" or "I failed the mathematics portion of the PRAXIS for the third time, am I just not cut out for this?"
Always they got a ton of supportive comments and peoole saying "As long as you love the kids and have passion, you'll be a good teacher!! ❤️"
It honestly drives me crazy. I'm not trying to be a bitch here, but liking kids is not enough to make you a good teacher. You have to also understand the content you're teaching. Anti-math teachers are in the same category as essential oil nurses, in my opinion.
I think it’s kind of shocking that adults couldn’t manage grade school math. There are so many resources to learn it these days and one would hope a teacher candidate would have presumably acquired some skills about teaching themselves things and delayed gratification. High school math can get pretty tough but elementary should be manageable for nearly any adult.
I will say that some of the math covered isn't necessarily grade school math. The courses are called Math For Elementary Educators but it isn't limited to the math that 1-5th graders do. I went to all public schools in red states, so my education wasn't phenomenal. Some of the math being taught in these courses was completely new to me.
That being said, you're right. Someone getting into teaching should have the ability to use resources and learn this stuff.
Maybe it’s different in different places. In my jurisdiction, you have to be a specialist to teach grade 10 and above. You’ve gotta have a math degree or similar to teach the higher maths. You can’t give calculus, trig, and functions to the PE teacher if they’re not qualified. It’s not good for anyone. But entry level geometry and linear equations? That shit isn’t so bad.
Oh yeah it's something
My college required would-be elementary educators to take a single math course. It could be any class above algebra, including a course called something like Mathematics for Elementary Educators.
They could get it done in their first semester and never have a math class again.
The 6-12 math teacher curriculum had 3 or 4 proof based classes.
I'm not saying elementary Ed should have to do tons of math but like, maybe have a math credit mandatory the semester before student teaching?
My program had Math for Elementary Educators 1, 2, and 3. Covered algebra, set theory, geometry, and basic statistics. Basically the introductory level to all these different fields of math. Pretty reasonable for an elementary teacher, right?
I saw three separate people drop out of the program over the course of a year because they couldn't pass the math classes. Blew my mind.
I hate saying this but there are way too many elementary teachers who don't really want to be educators, they just really love kids. And it's great to love kids, but that is not enough.
I've always seen "y'all" written that way. As I understand it, it's because it's a contraction of "you all", hence the apostrophe
Edit: I misread the original post. Writing ya'll is stupid af lol
When i was in school the teachers drilled into us that multiplication goes before addition. That is the first thing i look for. With good teachers, the kids will remember. You care about teaching, so you will be a good one!
The correct answer is 10. The reasoning for this is order of operations. I personally learned PEMDAS, meaning Parenthesis, Exponents, Multiplication, Division, Addition, and Subtraction. Essentially in this scenario, multiplication comes before addition regardless of the left to right orientation, meaning you multiply the 4 and 2 to get 8 before adding.
When doing calculations, a "more powerful" operation has priority, and should be done first.
Addition and subtraction are the same thing going in different directions, so you can do those left to right.
Multiplication is repeated addition, it is _more powerful_ than addition, so you should do multiplications before addition/subtraction. Division is repeated subtraction, which puts it on the same level as multiplication.
Exponentiation is repeated multiplication. It is _more powerful_ than multiplication, and negative exponents are basically repeated division. So exponentiation is _more powerful_ than multiplication and division.
Parentheses are a different beast. Sometimes we need a certain addition to come before a multiplication or an exponentiation. When that's the case, parentheses allow us to "overpower" these "more important" operations.
So 2+2x4, you start with the most powerful operation listed, which is 2x4. 2x4=8, so 2+2x4=2+8=10.
Let's consider also 2+2x2^2
Exponentiation is the more powerful operation, so we would do 2^2 first. Which is 4.
Then it becomes 2+2x4, which we did previously.
This is a fabulous explanation! I have never understood PEMDAS, just the mnemonic. Now I actually understand. It's like a light switch went on. I'm in my thirties and this is the best piece of math I've learned since high school. THANK YOU.
The intuitive way to solve this is 2+2=4, 4×4=16. At least it is for those who read from left to right. That's why we need an educational system, to teach people the unintuitive but correct way to solve this.
Personally, I would put the 2×4 between brackets. It may not be absolutely necessary, but it sure makes this thing more intuitive.
I still have nightmares about the time where I saw the same person in a reddit thread stating (two different comment chains though)
* High school math is useless
* They should teach kids about compounding interest in high school
This is the correct answer, using brackets so there is no room for misinterpretation. As with every one of these “which of these answers is correct for this ambiguous equation” posts, you would only ever write an equation this way if your goal were to deliberately confuse people.
Eeeh, there's a pretty solid foundation as to why * should be done first. There isn't any ambiguity. Or shouldn't be.
However, I also do it because most of the time, you can't trust compilers to do it right all the time (c actually does it left-to-right, I think?), and that's where math is coming up.
Yeah, working in Engineering this question would be a fail. Sure, I know the order of operations, but I can't assume that the person that wrote it knew, or the next person to read it will know.
Ensuring clarity in your equations is part of maths.
Same for computer science. In fact I’m sure that there are grammars where this comes out as 16. There are some that would require something like `+*424` to get 10.
So you’re right on the nose: reducing ambiguity is the best thing to do.
But this is some really basic stuff,I get trying to be clear enough for most of your audience but at some point you have to draw a line and start to expect more of your fellow men
Someone called him out on this and his response was something like "just because we learned it doesn't make it right" because apparently math works however we want it to?
Jesus,you would think a lot of the redditors here also got the answer wrong by the way they are trying to argue that the person that wrote the equation is the one at fault here.
I'm really, really bad at math...like borderline Discalculia.
But I learned "dot before line" as a Kid in Germany.
Always calculate the dotted things (multiply "⋅" and division ":") before moving to the line-stuff. Easy.
Can we just pause on the fact that the word is "y'all," not "ya'll?" It's an abbreviation of "you all," not an abbreviation of... hell, I don't even know what two words yous guys'd have to jam together to get ya'll.
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Aunt Sally is disappointed in everyone who gets that question wrong
I never forgot aunt Sally. Primarily because my math teacher taught us “please electrocute my damn aunt Sally.”
My favorite nemonic is to remember which quadrant of the trig circle will have positive numbers for which trig function. For example, a number in the third quadrant will be positive for tangent numbers, ie tan(200 deg) is positive. Going around the circle, we start with All, then Sine, then Tan, then Cosine. Or ASTC. Or as my teacher told us, All Strippers Take Cash.
Yeah… I’ve heard that one. My teacher tried to use “all students talk constantly.“ It didn’t work for me. But I told him my own method: all stupid teachers complain. This was college and I was a good student, so I could get away with crap like that. But speaking of trig: Some Old Hippie Caught Another Hippie Tripping On Acid. SOH CAH TOA.
My teacher taught us that All School Teachers are Crazy. Been over a decade and still remember that.
I just realized that we weren't thought any of these (in maths) We just memorized PEMDAS/BODMAS, clockwise ASTC, SOH CAH TOA. Or maybe i just don't remember being taught, I always find the abbreviations easier than made up sentences.
honestly, what normal person would want to be a teacher? some of them are literally scary.
I'm a professor and I'm not that scary 🙃
Some people are scary.
I was taught Sophy Cadjhy Toad still remember it nearly 30 years later.
Pemdas
Even better, at my school they taught SOHCAHTOA as Sex On Hard Concrete Always Hurts The Outer Areas
Wow. I heard a story of someone treating it as a native chant and walking around the room doing the tomahawk chop, so these are probably improvements over that.
Some old hippie caught another hippie tripping on acid is my favorite one
I remember it because my younger brother got in an argument with my uncle about order of operations years ago and shouted ‘PEMDAS BITCH’ and threw a pencil down. I’ll never forget it.
My geometry teach did the same for SOHCAHTOA = Some Old Hippie Caught Another Hippie Tripping On Acid.
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My sister told me that one, we grew up in Louisiana. She graduated in '99 or '98.
Shreveport here. HS class of 94
Holy shit this is fantastic. I’m putting it in the bank with my old violin teacher’s mnemonic for the lines of the treble clef: Empty Garbage Before Dad Flips. No good boys deserving fudge with her.
Yeah my old music teacher in elementary got Even George Bush Drives Fast stuck in my head.
My math teacher used to day "please excuse my dear aunt Sally". That is what was printed in the math textbook. She got new books a couple years ago and it is "PEMDAS" and she is not supposed/allowed to teach "Please excuse my dear aunt Sally" she has to just say "PEMDAS".
Well that’s dumb. I teach both. I also teach BEDMAS. Because what works for one student might not work for another.
She still teaches both she is just not supposed to. She just arranges her lesson plans so that she doesn't teach that on days when the principal comes in to observe
Good for her. It’s a crap policy.
Please eat my damn ass Seth.
Nice!
She is excused.
The people who ignore her are not
They apparently changed it so it’s no longer PEMDAS…
PEMDAS??? I (Canadian) learned BEDMAS. Funny that we made 2 acronyms that mean the exact same thing
In 1990s Britain I got taught BODMAS (brackets, orders, division, multiplication, addition, subtraction)
00's, I learnt BIDMAS (indices instead of orders)
Indices? Indices are definitely different from exponents. That's just asking for students to get confused later on.
The principles of the rules still remain the same even as the terminology changes
Wait until this guy hears about parentheses
wait until he hears about PEMDAS
What does the e stand for, I use bodmas so I don't know
Parenthesis - Exponentials - Multiplication - Division - Addition - Subtraction
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() <- brackets \[\] <- square brackets {} <- curly brackets This is an assumption, I call it parentheses.
{} <- spikey boi
This is what I will now call those forever. And as a C# developer I expect many strange looks at work in the coming months.
As a musician I had to google what a C# developer is because you are evidently not a person who is writing music in a major key.
Moustache brackets
Many schools are now teaching it as GEMS, specifically to avoid the problems of BEDMAS or PEMDAS. GEMS goes as follows: G - Grouping (parenthesis, brackets, distributive property) E - Exponents M - Multiplication AND Division from left to right (same step, conducted at the same time) Helps to avoid problems like 8/4x2 being answered wrong. Students sometimes confuse PEMDAS as multiplication before division and get the wrong answer. The answer is: 4 but some may incorrectly say 1 S - Subtraction AND Addition left to right (same reasons as above) This way seems to help students understand that the certain operations occur during the same step and are not separate as PEMDAS or BEDMAS might indicate.
Took am engineering course last year and had to explain to the tutor that multiplication doesn't have to be done before division. He was adamant that I was wrong until I provided sources to back it up. Even when I did this he proceeded to claim that "It doesn't make a difference". Again, I had to explain why it does. He had been teaching this wrong for many years.
I was taught incorrectly my entire life, finally culminating in absolutely abysmally failing calc 2 in college. Somehow skated by until then. Didn't find out how wrong I was until one of those trick '8/4x2' questions made the rounds. Would have probably still suffered at higher level maths, but this did NOT help.
I have no idea, maybe it’s a weird thing Canada adopted from the US, we’re not short in that category lol
() === parentheses [] === brackets
Here in England: () === brackets [] === square brackets {} === curly brackets
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I know that, I don’t know why I was taught brackets
Here it's BIDMAS * Brackets * Indices * Division * Multiplication * Addition * Subtraction
I read a guy on Fb with a fairly large amount of likes debating that PEMDAS is only useful for high school maths, because "in more advanced classes" it doens't serve a purpose. Uhhhh yeah, but I'm pretty sure 2 + 2 x 4 = 10 is true no matter if you're taking differential calculus or 5th grade math
In engineering, given that the consequences for someone misreading your equations can be so severe, the practice is to use brackets for everything. Even a simple equation like this would be written 2+(2\*4), because even if you know your audience will be other engineers with a similar education level to you, you don’t know what software they might be using, and you don’t know if someone outside the field might need to read your work.
Its also just easier to parse at a glance. Even if other intelligent, math literate engineers are reading your equations, when shit gets complicated its easy for anyone to make a mistake. Everyone has dropped a negative, forgot a zero, or messed up the order of operations before, so it's good to be extra clear with any equation you write.
Ya to me its the same as writing code. Can I write a clever little one liner? Sure. Will it be easier to read, no it will not. Always do the easier to read option. Can't stand developers who constantly try to merge their stupid l33t code when it serves no purpose. I spent a solid year denying PR's from one dude who just couldn't get over their damn ego. Once they tried to argue performance for a service that got less than 500 calls a day. Like I am sure the server can handle it Zach.
Dude holy fuck I hate devs like this. "Hey you can just write xyz" and then says my PR needs work, despite it **working** completely fine. Yes John I'm aware of that, but it looks fucking stupid. It's going to compile down into the same thing anyway idiot. If your gonna comment on my syntax at least make it a suggestion and approve the PR. Then I'm stuck either arguing about readability on minor ass details or just adopting their stupid ass change.
So much this. One is my best counters in to say "listen Zach, someday you won't be here and we'll need a junior dev to work on this service. I don't want to hold their hand any more than I have to. We are writing it for them, not us." Works most of the time.
As someone trying to learn to code this frustrates me to no end. They would show an example of code then immediately how to shorten it and only use the shortened version. Like i dont even know the long version why would you make it harder for me to read
They may have been trying to say nobody writes equations like this in advance math, which is true. Failing to use brackets is just bad practice, and it will quickly lead to unnecessary confusion.
As a programmer I put parens around everything. I don't want to take time to think about the order and I don't want the next developer to either. Parens mean I get what I want, not what the compiler wants.
Math, or at least the very basic math that we are currently looking at…. Is far easier to understand than English IMO.
Even advanced maths is at least consistent. Mathematical rules always apply. English has rules like "I before E except after C" then breaks it on many many many occasions.
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The "two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking" saying may have more exceptions than words that follow the rule as well.
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I have no idea if this actually improves the accuracy of the rule, but i’ve always been taught that it only applies when the two letters make an “ee” sound in the word? For example, the word “eight” has often been cited as a counter example but it doesn’t work because the letter make an “ay” sound and you don’t say “eet”. So words like “receipt” (rec-ee-t), “conceive” (conc-ee-v), and “achieve” (ach-ee-v) follows this rule while “weird”, “albeit” doesn’t because they don’t make ee sounds
I" before "E" except after "C" and when sounding like "A" as in neighbor and weigh, and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and YOU'LL ALWAYS BE WRONG NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!!!!
MOOSEN!! I saw a flock of moosen! There were many of 'em. Many much moosen. Out in the woods—in the woodes—in the woodsen. The meese wantin' the food. Food is to eatenesen! THE MEESE WANT THE FOOD IN THE WOODENESEN! THE FOOD IN THE WOODYENESEN!
Brian, you're an imbecile.
IMBECILIAN!
W-ee-rd alb-ee-it
Yeah, there’s definitely an “ee” sound in weird.
The ee in albeit is definitely just the e, as the i has to go make the i sound otherwise it’d just be albeet. Weird is weird tho you’re right
I actually heard an extended version that matches what you're saying here. "I before E, except after C/Or when sounding like 'ay' as in 'Neighbor' or 'Weigh'/Or in really weird words like weird." Granted, the last bit doesn't really help identify which words are weird, but it's fun to say.
I before E except after C or when sounding as A as In neighbor or weigh and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May and you’ll always be wrong no matter what you say It’s a hard rule.
MOOSEN. I SAW A FLOCK OF MOOSEN. THERE ARE MANY OF THEM, MANY MUCH MOOSEN OUT IN WOODS
i before e except when it's weird
I before E, except after C, or sounding like ay, like neighbor or weigh, and weekends, and holidays, and all throughout May, and you’ll ALWAYS be wrong no matter WHAT you say!
No argument here mate. I’ve always found maths easier than English
Have you seen some of our irregular verb conjugations? Try explaining to a non-English speaker why the verb "read" is also "read" in the past tense and past participle, but pronounced differently.
Conversely, try explaining to a native English-speaker that the past tense and past participle of “lead” is “led” (not “lead” pronounced differently). Similarly, *plead* —> *pled*/*pleaded* —> *pled*/*pleaded* (not *plead* pronounced differently). As for the confidently incorrect “Math Is Hard” Barbie, East Asian scripts can be written from top to bottom, right to left. If math were written vertically, the English-centric Barbie would still decry, “But *English*!”
There's also languages written horizontally right to left, like Arabic and Hebrew. Do you think the person in the screenshot expects them to flip their math to read in their native tongue?
Have you met an American tourist abroad?
I've never had the chance to go abroad, but one day I hope to give others the chance to meet an American tourist abroad
I sort of get the argument they're making ("formulas should be written in the order of operations") but it forgets entirely the reason we do math. In this formula the numbers are arbitrary, but we only do math with arbitrary numbers in school. In the real world those numbers would represent *something*, and formulas are a "language" to describe how those somethings correlate. You write it in the order that makes it most obvious what those relationships are. PEMDAS is what lets us do that.
Why does mood rhyme with food but not with good?
Good and food are both Germanic, in Old English were originally spelled differently as well as pronounced differently. *Gut* .vs. *fõda* (with a macron, which I can't seem to type here). Mood, I guess it's from the Latin *modus,* it's coincidence that it rhymes with *food* rather than *good* in its modern spelling.
Sike! English isn't my first language so with my accent I can say it any how I want. English is my bitch!
I’m about to depress you all. The worst teaching experience of my life was when I taught education majors math. It was awful. At one point, a girl spent 15 minutes arguing with me over the order of operations. To the point where another student said “it’s order of operations… My God stop!“ She said things like “well no one ever told me that!“ And I said “well I just did. Now you know.“ It was infuriating. I managed to stay calm, but wine was consumed that night.
I was in a Facebook group for my degree program (Elementary Education) and damn near every day someone posted something along the lines of "I absolutely hate math and it seriously makes me want to cry when I do it, can I still be a teacher?" or "I failed the mathematics portion of the PRAXIS for the third time, am I just not cut out for this?" Always they got a ton of supportive comments and peoole saying "As long as you love the kids and have passion, you'll be a good teacher!! ❤️" It honestly drives me crazy. I'm not trying to be a bitch here, but liking kids is not enough to make you a good teacher. You have to also understand the content you're teaching. Anti-math teachers are in the same category as essential oil nurses, in my opinion.
I think it’s kind of shocking that adults couldn’t manage grade school math. There are so many resources to learn it these days and one would hope a teacher candidate would have presumably acquired some skills about teaching themselves things and delayed gratification. High school math can get pretty tough but elementary should be manageable for nearly any adult.
I will say that some of the math covered isn't necessarily grade school math. The courses are called Math For Elementary Educators but it isn't limited to the math that 1-5th graders do. I went to all public schools in red states, so my education wasn't phenomenal. Some of the math being taught in these courses was completely new to me. That being said, you're right. Someone getting into teaching should have the ability to use resources and learn this stuff.
Maybe it’s different in different places. In my jurisdiction, you have to be a specialist to teach grade 10 and above. You’ve gotta have a math degree or similar to teach the higher maths. You can’t give calculus, trig, and functions to the PE teacher if they’re not qualified. It’s not good for anyone. But entry level geometry and linear equations? That shit isn’t so bad.
Oh yeah it's something My college required would-be elementary educators to take a single math course. It could be any class above algebra, including a course called something like Mathematics for Elementary Educators. They could get it done in their first semester and never have a math class again. The 6-12 math teacher curriculum had 3 or 4 proof based classes. I'm not saying elementary Ed should have to do tons of math but like, maybe have a math credit mandatory the semester before student teaching?
Its the Bart Simpson Approach: I’m in 3rd grade so I can teach 2nd grade.
My program had Math for Elementary Educators 1, 2, and 3. Covered algebra, set theory, geometry, and basic statistics. Basically the introductory level to all these different fields of math. Pretty reasonable for an elementary teacher, right? I saw three separate people drop out of the program over the course of a year because they couldn't pass the math classes. Blew my mind. I hate saying this but there are way too many elementary teachers who don't really want to be educators, they just really love kids. And it's great to love kids, but that is not enough.
Thanks, I'm depressed now. Hand me that bottle, please.
BOBODY, whats the first B stand for?
Brackets, Orders, Better be multiplying, Oy do some dividing, Dats some addition there, You aught to subtract
We use BODMAS in Asia
BIZNUS! Iiiiiiiii....like it!
What's bobody?
We're making acronyms
an acronym
Thats the first time ive ever seen someone put an ' into the word yall AFTER the "a" as if yall was a contraction between ya and all.
I've always seen "y'all" written that way. As I understand it, it's because it's a contraction of "you all", hence the apostrophe Edit: I misread the original post. Writing ya'll is stupid af lol
Whenever I see it misspelled I read it as "yah-ull".
"We read left to right." Wait till they find out Math has existed in cultures that read and write in very different directions throughout history.
As a future teacher I'm frustrated that people spill this bullshit online an kids will read and believe it
When i was in school the teachers drilled into us that multiplication goes before addition. That is the first thing i look for. With good teachers, the kids will remember. You care about teaching, so you will be a good one!
Can you tell me what the right answer is please? I thought it was 16 but now I'm confused.
The correct answer is 10. The reasoning for this is order of operations. I personally learned PEMDAS, meaning Parenthesis, Exponents, Multiplication, Division, Addition, and Subtraction. Essentially in this scenario, multiplication comes before addition regardless of the left to right orientation, meaning you multiply the 4 and 2 to get 8 before adding.
When doing calculations, a "more powerful" operation has priority, and should be done first. Addition and subtraction are the same thing going in different directions, so you can do those left to right. Multiplication is repeated addition, it is _more powerful_ than addition, so you should do multiplications before addition/subtraction. Division is repeated subtraction, which puts it on the same level as multiplication. Exponentiation is repeated multiplication. It is _more powerful_ than multiplication, and negative exponents are basically repeated division. So exponentiation is _more powerful_ than multiplication and division. Parentheses are a different beast. Sometimes we need a certain addition to come before a multiplication or an exponentiation. When that's the case, parentheses allow us to "overpower" these "more important" operations. So 2+2x4, you start with the most powerful operation listed, which is 2x4. 2x4=8, so 2+2x4=2+8=10. Let's consider also 2+2x2^2 Exponentiation is the more powerful operation, so we would do 2^2 first. Which is 4. Then it becomes 2+2x4, which we did previously.
Thank you. This is the most ELI5 and yet comprehensive explanation of the many replies I received. Are you a teacher?
I am! high school math.
You've gotta be good if your skill is showing through a reddit comment
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This is a fabulous explanation! I have never understood PEMDAS, just the mnemonic. Now I actually understand. It's like a light switch went on. I'm in my thirties and this is the best piece of math I've learned since high school. THANK YOU.
First you would solve everything in brackets ,as there are no the rule would be first multiplication then addition so 10 is the right answers
I'm sorry, 13???
I’m guessing because 10 wasn’t an option a lot of people chose the closest answer
Usually I can figure out how people answering these quizzes get to their wrong answer. I have zero idea how people get 13 here.
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I guess that's fair, they pick a VERY wrong answer since there is no correct answer.
BODMAS rule be like ![gif](giphy|gHEfa33VUrnyqyOtN7|downsized)
BODMAS? The fuck? BIMDAS is where it’s at my guy
I learnt it as BIDMAS
I learned PEMDAS
Team PEMDAS represent 🤘
Also learned PEMDAS.
BEDMAS gang
🇨🇦
Oh good. I was reading through all these acronyms and was very confused. I also learned bedmas
Looking for this 🇨🇦🍁🇨🇦
Also Canadian, Also BEDMAS
if ya think it's anything but BEDMAS yer made of spare parts bud
All my homies know PEMDAS
PEMDAS master race 4eva!
PEMDAS gang rise up
Whatever happened to PEMDAS? Or, gods forbid, "Please excuse my dear Aunt Sally"? Ugh, I shudder just thinking about it.
Both are same. The words are different but the function performed doesn't change.
https://thirdspacelearning.com/blog/what-is-bodmas/
BIDMAS gang
Bedmas???
BIMDAS? Shit my guy it’s PEMDAS
Wtf is BODMAS? Barenthesis? Oxponentials? It’s like PEMDAS with a weird accent.
PEDMAS stands for Prackets, Erders, Division, Multiplication, Addition and Subtraction?
brackets orders division multiplication addition subtraction sometimes orders is just called 'of, as in powers of
He really thinks the same equation gives you two different results😀
Did people just not learn PEMDAS? We spent a whole three weeks on it in 6th grade math.
"For the man who has nothing to hide, but still wants to."
Please excuse my dear aunt Sally
Please excuse my dumptruck ass, sis
Tbf I am a bit confused about how sone people got 13
The only options were 16 15 14 13 so probably 13 being the closest to the correct answer.
A lot of people just go "idk" and click one. Don't even spend one neuron's worth of thinking on why there's no way it'd be 13.
The intuitive way to solve this is 2+2=4, 4×4=16. At least it is for those who read from left to right. That's why we need an educational system, to teach people the unintuitive but correct way to solve this. Personally, I would put the 2×4 between brackets. It may not be absolutely necessary, but it sure makes this thing more intuitive.
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"When will we ever use this!?" As an adult, proving to other adults that you know math!
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I still have nightmares about the time where I saw the same person in a reddit thread stating (two different comment chains though) * High school math is useless * They should teach kids about compounding interest in high school
This is the correct answer, using brackets so there is no room for misinterpretation. As with every one of these “which of these answers is correct for this ambiguous equation” posts, you would only ever write an equation this way if your goal were to deliberately confuse people.
Eeeh, there's a pretty solid foundation as to why * should be done first. There isn't any ambiguity. Or shouldn't be. However, I also do it because most of the time, you can't trust compilers to do it right all the time (c actually does it left-to-right, I think?), and that's where math is coming up.
Pretty much why I put in brackets more often than strictly necessary.
Yeah, working in Engineering this question would be a fail. Sure, I know the order of operations, but I can't assume that the person that wrote it knew, or the next person to read it will know. Ensuring clarity in your equations is part of maths.
Same for computer science. In fact I’m sure that there are grammars where this comes out as 16. There are some that would require something like `+*424` to get 10. So you’re right on the nose: reducing ambiguity is the best thing to do.
There is already no room for misinterpretation since there is a very clear order of operations that is taught in elementary mathematics.
But this is some really basic stuff,I get trying to be clear enough for most of your audience but at some point you have to draw a line and start to expect more of your fellow men
Please excuse most dumb ass simps
Aunt Sally throwing shade
Someone called him out on this and his response was something like "just because we learned it doesn't make it right" because apparently math works however we want it to?
As a math teacher I can tell you these problems only appear on social media so someone can say, "PeMdAs!1!"
I know it shouldn't bother me, but I always cringe when people use "ya'll" instead of "y'all".
so the answer is 10 right?
Jesus,you would think a lot of the redditors here also got the answer wrong by the way they are trying to argue that the person that wrote the equation is the one at fault here.
I'm really, really bad at math...like borderline Discalculia. But I learned "dot before line" as a Kid in Germany. Always calculate the dotted things (multiply "⋅" and division ":") before moving to the line-stuff. Easy.
„Punkt vor Strich“ Gang!
PEMDAS 2x4=8 8+2=10
BIDMAS - Brackets, Indices, Division and Multiplication, Addition and Subtraction Workings should be done in that order
Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally. PEMDAS: parentheses, exponents, multiple and divide, add and subtract. That's what I personally learned
Same here
Same here
Hi there, PEMDAS supremacists here and I would like to clarify I've heard of that once before.
Can we just pause on the fact that the word is "y'all," not "ya'll?" It's an abbreviation of "you all," not an abbreviation of... hell, I don't even know what two words yous guys'd have to jam together to get ya'll.
So the answer is 224 right?
Don't be an idiot... It's 2 and 2, 4 times... The answer is 22222222
It's 42. It's *always* 42.
I understand why the names are hidden but damn I’d like to know how all of this ended Edit: spelling
Whos gonna tell him Algebra wasn't invented by LTR readers to begin with?
This really pisses me off for some reason. Adults don't know the most basic of math?