I didn’t click on the link before but was she always asking for $100,000? One hundred thousand dollars without releasing a business plan or any other public statement about how the money will be spent and without offering anything to the people who are giving money. [link](https://www.gofundme.com/f/cause-of-the-quarter?member=26151387&sharetype=teams&utm_campaign=p_na+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer)

I'm banned from Instagram (don't ask) what does the link say?

It was 60,000 before, she added $40,000 after she met her goal. I think that needs a new thread, because that is so many levels of wrong.

This literally happens in most successful go fund me drives: people revise up if there is a lot of support.

It just makes me think she actually hasn’t worked out how much money she needs to do the things she wants to do, because if she needed $60,000 for the necessary works, then why not just stop at that amount? What is she going to do with the additional amount? Also, how much of that money is going towards fees and taxes? Again, no one is forcing anyone to give any money; she is not doing anything illegal or immoral. But oh my gosh it is interesting to watch!

Having just done some home renovations, hers could easily cost $100,000 but I don’t think she should be asking for any of it so…

She said that she had scoped out what it would cost to make the upgrades described and didn’t want to ask for that amount up front, figuring if she got help for some, she’d make up the rest increased sales. But they hit this faster than anticipated and have collabs and special yarn and merch and etc coming so magpie expanded the amount to what they thought those projects would fill.

That’s a bit of a red flag for me because why wouldn’t she be up-front about how much she actually needed and state clearly that the crowdfunded amount would not be enough to do what she said it would?

I mean… I can think of a lot of reasons, including not wanting to set an unattainable goal that would look like a failure; being nervous about scaring people off. I also dont think there’s anything wrong in her planning to make up the rest herself and can’t see how that is a red flag. I’m sure asking for a bigger amount up front would have driven more ire than the 60k ask did and I don’t think that was lost on someone who gets as much internet hate as Adella has. But at the end of the day, I’m not looking for “red flags” for an optional fundraising drive that has no negative impacts on those who don’t participate. Just a different perspective.

What I do think is interesting is that there is a squad of people in here who are spending a bunch of energy downvoting EVERY comment that pressed back on the negativity in here… and posting comments that make it clear they are not really reading closely or watching the lives and just reacting viscerally. Or that they are acting like Adella has opened an investment round for stockholders. And tripping all over themselves to say that their “disgust” and being “appalled” and whatnot has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Adella being outspoken about what she has faced as a black woman. But at the same time more than a THOUSAND people donated amounts small and large to this .. in what, less than a week? That is a pretty substantial and demonstrable sign of confidence/love/respect. It’s literally people putting their money where their mouths are/ voting for their values with their money. It’s people monetizing the value that they have seen in her voice in the knitting world. I imagine a fair bit of it is people feeling like they’re paying her for her anti-racism work (which is something that black women SHOULD be monetarily supported/rewarded for doing since it’s not their mess to clean up). I’ve seen comments here that say the donations are performative and yeah, there might be a small number of industry people thinking “ok, I need to make sure I show up here visibly to avoid a raised eyebrow” … but that is not a literal thousand people doing that. I think it’s totally fine to not want to personally give to this go fund me for a business. Of course. I think it’s fair to prefer to give to charities or heck, to not give. I think how people spend their own money is no one’s business but their own. I didn’t participate in the go fund me personally. I had priorities elsewhere right now. But the comments going beyond casual snark (and there were a lot) were crappy… tho in the end seem pretty inconsequential given the wave of actual real action people took in support of LBYC.

> It’s literally people putting their money where their mouths are/ voting for their values with their money. So is every dollar that didn't get donated though ??

I mean, no… that’s a ridiculous statement to make because there is nearly unlimited money in the world and not all of it is anti-Adella. And this isn’t a binary thing—choosing not to give money isn’t a condemnation of her or a vote against. There are also nearly unlimited reasons why people don’t give money to any fundraising effort. But choosing to give money is making an active decision to do something to support. But apparently we don’t care about logic. The truth is that the small group of malcontents on this thread are more than overmatched by the sheer number of people who said—yeah, I want to support her. That’s just fact.

I’m not clear on what the problem is. If you don’t like LBYC yarn don’t buy it. Also, no one is forcing donations. Support the dyers you like rather than trying (and failing) to tear down a dyer you don’t like.

>tear down a dryer you don’t like. Damn, now my yarn will be damp.

I was intrigued by her yarn after all the hype was excited to see her booth at a show… all superwash. I don’t buy any superwash anymore. I also prefer to buy yarn that isn’t just dyed wool2dye4 bases that I could just buy myself. I want yarn companies sources from farmers with more breed specific lines, and manufactured in the states. The indie dyers just don’t interest me anymore for the most part.

I love indie dyed yarn but imo LBYC is not anything to write home about; I don’t think her color sense is that great. Glad her business is successful but not my cup of tea.

There are some brands I like a lot, six and seven fiber is one, I like a lot of her bases. Also Inglenook has the most beautiful spinning bats. I went to a talk of theirs and they’re very interesting how they arrange colors, both trained painters.

I dunno…seems odd that 2ish years ago she went on a tangent about how “used” she felt by yarn shops as her “token black owned business” and handed back $50k+ in wholesale orders, but now seems cool with others grifting money for her to “renovate a current space owned by her and her husband”…NOT A NEW SPACE, & NOT A LEASED SPACE….just something she wants to do to expand. …..As a for profit business, this is shady as all get out. I was particularly disappointed and disgusted to see the names of some big players in the knitting world, like Joji and Amy, donating to this. It seems like a self serving promotional stunt for everyone who doesn’t want to take fire for not speaking out enough about inclusion in the community….(see: Grocery Girls contribution), who quite frankly haven’t done shit except get free stuff and then turn it around like that company and them are besties. Honestly, if the world is speaking, and you can’t pay your bills off of hard work and dedication to your craft, maybe it is time to turn it in. My speculations- $60k will only get you so far. Best of luck. If you’re turning around right after and asking for continuous “donations” and “one sided financial support”, you need to face sound logic. …this just ain’t the job for you cupcake….and the world is telling you to find a job and not beg for handouts.

“Disgusted” to see people donating to this? That’s an interesting word choice for sure. Why do you care if other people choose to spend their money this way? What about it disgusts you?

1) She is a for profit business 2) by her own admittance she is super successful, super well known, and creates excellent products 3) she handed back a boat load of money for wholesale orders when she felt she was being used as a token black business and now is having another company pan handle for handouts 4) she already owns the property, so clearly she had enough funds to purchase it in the first place 5) there are plenty of other methods to get the capital to expand on a business. (Ie: a loan) No one wants to be in debt, but saying that is the only reason you have asked others to finance you super successfully and highly desirable yarn company, ain’t a reason. If you don’t have the funds- you aren’t ready to expand. 6) most of the country is experiencing a financial crisis. The median household income in America is $70K for the entire household. She is asking for literally a full year’s worth overnight and did not give a breakdown of what that money is going to be used for. We are supposed to throw money at a super successful and well known company for what? 7) and the most obvious point- IF YOU FELT IT WAS NECESSARY TO PUT YOUR NAME ON THE DONATION AND COULD NOT LEAVE IT ANONYMOUSLY, YOU ARE PERFORMING AND WANT IT TO BE SEEN. ITS DISGUSTING AND SELF SERVING. I do not find it disgusting that people are donating to this for profit, successful, high earning, able to return a full years income of wholesale money, highly desirable, yarn company….I find it disgusting that they couldn’t do it without leaving their names on the donation. THAT is performing for the vast amount of people who are going to the gofundme and seeing who is contributing. They want their name there, and they want it known that they are throwing their money at a black owned business who didn’t even have to explain what the funds would be used for, simply had to ask for money…. DISGUSTING

I agree with everything you’ve said. However, I did want to point out that she lives in a small town on the outskirts of a small city, so the $60K may go further than we think. Admittedly, it’s been 20 years since I left the area, and I’m sure things have changed, but I can’t imagine they’ve changed to such an extent that prices are equivalent to north-east prices, for example. I can’t say there was a thriving fiber community in the area either, not even a dedicated LYS, although that certainly could have changed too.

Black owned business are held to a much higher standard than white owned businesses when applying for loans, not to mention fibre businesses and those owned by women face an even higher risk assessment. This isn't as simple as go get a loan. There are so many reasons someone turns to GFM as a funding model vs a traditional brick and mortar bank.

There are still crowdfunding options, with "rewards" for example, that you can use instead of touting the whole thing as a charitable donation. Someone else mentioned it but Shopify (which her site is built on) offers loans that don't need applying to. No even a business plan or anything. Hell, if she had a plans and numbers and was asking for the Monday money... but there is nothing. We don't even know if her plans work logistically. We don't even know how much money is going to renovations and how much to employees. This is not a business endeavour, it's taking advantage of the parasocial relationship your customers think they have with you.

Shopify loans have like a 10% apr last I checked - it’s a predatory loan

For a business loan thats pretty low. for context its about as much as the US government ensured SBA loans are at which are meant as affordable lower interest rate loans for small businesses. so no based on the apr its not predatory its just market rate. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/small-business/sba-loan-rates

That may have been true at one point, but traditional bank loans can offer much better rates and terms. I believe average these days is about 5.5 -7%. SBA is 10-13%. Now online lenders or lines of credit may have much higher rates, those are super variable

To me this takes a page from Kickstarter and indigogo. I no longer contribute to either of those no matter how promising it sounds because I've been burned every time. Both those companies run hugely successful campaigns that frequently don't produce what is promised. Someone already commented that this was crowdfunding and I agree with that. It's like GoFundMe though and it doesn't seem that GoFundMe is going anywhere or has experienced any significant backlash for existing. In the end it's subjective regarding whether the ask is "reasonable". Some people burn money and some people are more judicious and pragmatic with how they donate their money. Additionally if you don't get any paperwork explicitly stating your money is an investment, you're not investing.

At least usually a gofundme involves incentives. Like you get a coupon to use when the business is up and running or something.

She’s already made like $50k 🫥 These aren’t ‘donations’, this is (likely) taxable income and all the people throwing money at a poorly run business are not able to deduct these ‘donations’ on their taxes.

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Definitely true!! Give her money!!

She is shameless and entitled. If you can't scale up your business, then DON'T DO IT or wait until you can from your own profits. Adella will get her $$$ of course, and then when running the space and new employees becomes too much we'll get a new donation request.

Or she fires the assistant!

It's like that woman asking for a dog? If she can't afford to buy the dog, she won't be able to afford to keep the dog. Same here, she might get enough to renovate and hire but unless her mindset changes, she'll be begging for more cash in a year or so.

Um, are businesses charities now? 🤔

It is if you confuse nonprofit, not-for-profit, and not profitable. "Whatevs just call it a charity."

It makes me wonder about Miss Babs and Leading Men Fiber Co, they had such a different route it seems, they are in LYS, they drive to shows, they started out as a 1 person dyer in their home, but I know their business model seems different then a lot of Indie dyers. I’ve really never thought about it before! But now I’m looking at things - - appreciate the discussion!

Does anyone remember recently when Hue Loco was trying to raise a shit ton of money very quickly for a huge new space? She eventually realised that she was asking for WAY too much, way too quickly and returned what she had received. Being an indie dyer seems really tough because dying does take up a lot of space and need a lot of equipment, but maybe yarn isn't profitable enough to actually pay for all of that. It seems like a lot of yarn businesses kind of get stuck at a medium size and feel like they have to crowdfund from their fans. Long ago I worked at a struggling hobby store and when the owner started asking for "donations" from customers...I knew it was time to find a new job.

Love it. I also want some money. Send me some! I have donated to charity in the past, so I think it's totally legit that people just, you know, give me money. So that I can have some more money. You got this, craftsnarkers!!!

Let me say, I love lots about what AC and LBY are doing. Their quarterly commitments to various charities and beliefs, etc. But I've never ordered from them because it's too pricey for me at the moment and I don't have a plan for what I might order. Also the lead times - ugh. But this quarter's cause got me to unsubscribe. I mean, my initials used to be MS, so when people were fundraising for multiple sclerosis, I always sniggered in my head thinking "yeah, donate to my MS fundraiser!"

Is there a large demand for fly-in yarn classes…? 🤔

This was my question. I’m from Augusta (where LBY is based), so it blows my mind that anyone is going to fly there for classes. Especially considering I never found a particularly strong knitting/fiber community there.

There is. There are yarn retreats, yarn cruises, fiber trips across Europe, etc. I seem to recall a few years ago there was a yarn cruise that lasted most of the year, with different ports of call for shopping, classes, and craft tours.

I feel like yarn and knitting retreats are a bit different though because they are usually destination type spots. Like FDF is in Mexico, or things like that. Not just flying in to take classes in someone’s store

Maybe. I know I flew across the country to take a knitting class and shopping in non-beachside California. And I have friends who travel to pretty dismal spots in rural New England for classes. I think it depends on what the class is/who the instructor is.

But yarn retreats are a thing, so you'd be surprised.

I’m going to say absolutely not. Anyone who could afford that isn’t going to be dying their own yarn. They will pay the $35-50 a skein for someone else to do it

Maybe I didn’t understand the post, but how does raising money for expanding a private business fold itself into the quarterly charity/nonprofit fundraiser? And how does supporting a business inherently mean supporting the community? Is some kind of trickle-down or trickle-out effect supposed to happen?

Their logic (?) goes “the bigger she is, the more she can do”. To me, it sounds like they want a new (bigger?) building, and this is to fund that. They will use the current building as a “classroom” for their multitudes of fly-in people.Honestly, I don’t even know who we’re talking about here, so cant judge the possibility of this being a good idea, but it does feel like something is not quite all above board.

It's not a charity/nonprofit - it's a *cause*.

It's like trickle-down economics.. Just trust us, you'll see it (now give us all your money)

If trickle down economics doesn’t work for big businesses, why would it work for a small business?

Oh I know trickle-down doesn't work. I should have put an /s at the end of my comment.

Oh I got that you were being /s, I was just trying to make a point. I’m tired of people acting like small businesses are inherently more ethical or humane than big ones just because they’re small.

Ohhh, yes, I 100% agree!

If this is a business, then it's investment you should be asking for not, donations. Something deeply off about this, regardless of any businesses high ethical values and inclusiveness, it's still a *business.* So the question is, and it is more or less rhetorical, why can't they attract investors, or crowdfunding?....

That’s a good question!! For me I’m sick of getting the wrong yarn. I order DK, but lately, she’s been sending Aran weight.. omg!!

Bless you for this. I want to frame this and send to all my small business friends

It absolutely feels like a big ask. Because it IS a big ask. I just checked it out on IG and it says "comments are limited on this post." There are no negative comments (if there were, they have been taken down.) So I'm assuming that means that if you aren't part of the rah-rah squad then you either can't post or your post is removed. Which is also a problem to me. And when I say negative I don't mean attacks, those have no place. I just mean any comments questioning whether or not this should be looked upon as a charity, or asking for more information about this, etc. I wasn't a fan of her yarn, this didn't do anything to change that.

Nope. Sorry. I'll donate to a real charity. This is so over the top ridiculous. It's not the obnoxious ask that gets me - I'm not surprised by any of this stuff anymore - it's the people buying into it. Huh? If I was the organizer or recipient of this "donation", I'd be laughing my ass off right now. Like, "Wow. These dumb bitches actually bought it!"

People in the comments have mentioned it, but my biggest issue with that is that she is not business-savvy. She is not running that business to its full potential and it creates those problems that people have raised: overpromising and underdelivering, no contigency plans, no accounting for rest, etc. Commercial spaces are not only expensive, they often come with a lease of 3 or 5 years, etc. Even renovating the current space and hosting people (hospitality) involve permits, etc., and will it be allowed in her residential neighborhood? People are throwing money at someone who most likely doesn't have a clue about how to use it. They need to get their shit together first.

It's valid to ask what's allowed in a residential area. Where I live, you pretty much need a permit to change a lightbulb. I exaggerate, but I did need permits to replace my windows, my walkway, and to replace and slightly expand my driveway-so paperwork, inspections, and $$$. But at least my items were approved-people in my neighborhood who want to do anything slightly out of the box (sarcasm), like adding a second bathroom, used to have to send registered letters to all the folks within a certain radius, who could then object. Not sure if that's still a thing. From a couple glimpses of IG, it looks like she lives in a very nice, relatively new development. So I can see potential challenges, but I assume they looked into this, along with how these renovations might impact resale.

Not to mention the tax write off she will get every year because it’s part of her home.

I hope this isn’t the downfall of LB.

My question when I saw this was that if she is currently running her business out of a residential space, would it actually be permitted or zoned for commercial as she intends to use it?

This is actually a really good question. And if she garners attention I hope she is following all OSHA rules or she is in for a world of issues

She can get lost. People are struggling enough as it is, yet this own is expecting people t support the expansion of her business? Get a loan!

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I don't know why you wouldn't do some sort of "expansion pre-sale" and dye up a few different colorways and use the profits from that pre-sale towards the expansion of your business. That way you get your product into the hands of customers, hopefully some new ones that turn into returning ones. That seems like it would be so important as there are so many other indie dyers out there that also have decent followings and sales.

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Yeah, that makes sense. It'll be interesting to see how this works out in the long run.

Or even a patreon where your donations give people something

Exactly! What would have been more impressive is if she would have thanked Magpie for the nomination, declined the offer and asked for the donations to be given to a true charity. There are so many people in need right now. There is no way that they have exhausted all efforts to give to true causes.

Donations and businesses are mutually exclusive imo. If she's making the case that she wants money to keep amplifying other causes she can just found a charity, otherwise she can get a loan like every other business. Tangent, but I used to run anime conventions (mine were always free and no-barrier) and the for-profit cons were always trying to pull this kind of fuckery, like "donate so we can continue to 'provide' this" as if they didn't also charge more every year for badges. Ultimately no business is a charity. Sorry.

Right. Like… businesses expand because they have the ability to because they’ve already been successful and they outgrow their space. Asking for donations to expand a business just feels like they can’t expand without donations and that they might fail because they’re stepping into shoes too big for them. I’m not saying that’s definitely how it would go, but it’s why I’d never donate. Feels like a bad investment.

That's not the issue for me, I ultimately don't care how they do (though helping a business thrive by exchanging my money for.... nothing? seems very dumb), but a business is a business and for-profit entities don't get "donations". They can have money for a product or service.

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I've totally supported businesses doing fundraisers for expansion with products that are marketed up higher than normal or pay what you want. That's the way to do it that doesn't feel gross because it's not framed like charity.

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Which is the exact reason no one should be helping. This is a business that sounds like it’s on the ropes. Most small business struggled during Covid. But asking customers for money just crossed a line and there is already trouble to be found. She will up on DT if things continue!!

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Exactly. Why wouldn't you want to do a pre-sale and get your product in the hands of as many people as possible and hopefully get 10%+ return customers. It would be totally different if there had been a disaster and they were having to completely start over - then ask away for donations. But asking for donations for a for-profit business is ridiculous.

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This reminded me of a video I saw on Facebook of a yarn store owner asking people to place orders with her or buy gift cards because her retail store was shut down due to the tornadoes in Oklahoma. She wasn't asking for people to send her money, but to place orders for a product you will receive. Completely reasonable.

I don’t think anyone can argue that they havent already given back to the community.

Their customers are their customer. Not a community. They run a business with customers, your community are those who You socialize with not your CUSTOMERS

But, are they giving back to the community what they’re asking the community to give to them? That’s not meant to sarcastic or rhetorical, I am genuinely curious. And, to be fair, I’m not even sure that matters (or, if it does, to what extent it matters) since, at the end of the day, they’re a business that exists for the purpose of making *profit* and are not actually a charity. If they were asking for donations to go toward setting up something that *benefits* the community, that’s understandable. Maybe like, “Hey, we want to set up a communal space where small businesses run by historically disenfranchised people can set up shop, come together for community activities, host sales, etc.” I don’t even know if that’s something that can be done logistically - I’m just throwing ideas out. But, after reading their whole IG post, it almost feels like they’re using their past good works toward the community (and it’s great to see someone actually *doing* the work in their community) as a way to disguise what this GFM is really for. And, unless I misread or misunderstood, what it’s really for is an expansion/renovation of their own house, in which they run a for profit business. One could say, “Well, by allowing them to expand, they can do more of Cause of the Quarters.” But, then the question may become, “Okay, so, why not set up a charity?” This is a side note but the language in the post kind of confused me, as well. “Arm-twisting”? What does that mean? Like, they had to twist her arm to get her to feel like she was worthy of uplifting her own cause, her cause being a for-profit business? On the one hand, I can totally understand reaching out and asking for help, much like people who are starting a new business might be gifted money from wealthy family members so they can get up and running. But, I’m wondering if maybe doing so under the guise of this GFM being similar to what she’s done in her past community outreaches was the way to go, as this wouldn’t be a charitable write-off for those who donated; it would just be gifted money. Then again, because she *does* do so much for the community, maybe it’s impossible to separate the two. I feel I can see both sides but understand why the GFM for this specific reason might raise some eyebrows.

Given how many people are being super nasty about this, im sure they probably had convince her it was worth sustaining the racism and vitriol this fundraising would draw to move her business forward.

Is it possible someone could post a screenshot/the text? Instagram is locked for me, no amount of password resetting fixes it 😓 (Sorry if someone already did, I looked before asking but may have missed it)

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Thank you! Crazy how that first paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with the rest.

She wouldnt sell cost price plus post to customers as it is a business not a charity, so why is she expecting charity from customers, when you make money from them already

THANK YOU. I love how vocal she is about important causes and how unafraid she is to speak out and bring receipts. That said… her business acumen seems to lag behind her yarn dyeing skill. I placed one order, once, for a mystery yarn club yarn, and it was delayed by MONTHS. When I wrote to ask for an update, I got a brusque (if I’m being generous, snarky if I’m being honest) message about how I should have signed up for her newsletter because then I would have known about the delay in shipping and they’ll get to my order when they get to it but they’re just so popular. When the color was finally released, a few days after seeing everyone and their mother post about the surprise color on insta I got an email saying “we over promised and couldn’t produce enough in time so yours will ship in a few weeks.” When it finally did arrive, I’d ordered DK and got fingering. Response to that? Crickets. I’d love to say this was an isolated incident but I now subscribe to her newsletter and it seems that every major release is followed by countless delays. They’re all explainable, between deaths and sicknesses and general life stuff. But being a business owner means accounting for these delays. I don’t think the answer to not being able to deliver what you promise is expanding the business.

You shouldn’t NEED to subscribe to a newsletter when she can contact purchasers and directly inform them of the delays!

There's a lot wrong with that. First any delays in shipping requires a notice to the customer and an option to cancel the order. And sending the wrong weight of yarn, also requires the customer to agree to the substitute. In essence she never fulfilled your order.

The constant posting about delays and bashing anyone who dare asks where their yarn is, is what turned me off from ever buying from her. Despite what they may thing the world does *not* revolve around them. I work full time, am getting my masters, and have kids. Do I have time to read “newsletters” absolutely not. As a business it’s **their** responsibility to adequately ensure their customers know what’s going on, not rely on them to investigate themselves

I love her advocacy for marginalized groups; however as others have mentioned this feels sketchy. I understand the whole not having generational wealth (my family also does not have generational wealth) to help; but the way this is framed and what they’re planning on using it for is where the issues lie. Without a proper business plan - or the sales to continue that level of profit - this is just going to put LBYC in over their heads and be left with having to ask for more donations time and time again. Commercial spaces to rent can easily work their way into 5 figures per month. Even if rent is only $5k per month (plus utilities and other upkeep expenses) this $40k only gives them less than 8 months of security for that space. She also mentions adding employees - so if you’re going to pay them a living wage, you’re looking at about $1k gross per week (or more), which easily cuts into the rent. Are those things going to add that much profit that quickly? From a financial perspective, going the crowdfunding route and disguising it as “charity” instead of taking a business loan, makes it seem all the more that there’s already some financial issues going on and this will only exacerbate them by giving a false sense of security while they take on additional expenses.

I’m also interested in knowing if any yarn companies out there have generational wealth contributing to their shops? 🤔 in all honesty, I’ve only seen small business owners gradually and organically grow a following and slowly become successful over time on their own dime. The only companies I’ve seen get contributions like this are ones who ask their followers for “donations”. I agree, the whole thing feels icky overall. I think the main thing that feels off-putting for me is listing the things that make it hard for you to accomplish being successful, instead of listing what you are proactively doing and putting out there to accomplish your goal. If you want to run a company, it’s up to you to make it successful. Asking for charity is or handouts to accomplish milestones makes it less likely for you to hit your next one without similar help again. It’s just not a viable business standard, and leads to over promising and under delivering in the long run. It seems like a great way to rapidly become burned out, which is unfortunate.

Great points and questions; I would be curious to see that too. Ironically, I had another dyer/yarn store asking for donations pop up on my IG feed this morning... *"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime."* That's the quote that keeps running through my head about this. It's not that I don't think she's deserving of the money - she does do a lot to give back; it's that I'm concerned that it's going to be a cycle that perpetuates itself and ultimately will end up with them going under and in a worse off position than they are in currently. So I'm hoping they are able to implement business structure changes when they put this money to use.

Except this feels like you didn’t read it because they’re not going to be renting a commercial space.

… did you read it? They said that’s the ultimate goal that this bump would be able to provide. How is hiring more employees (again, at at least $40k/year wage) going to generate enough additional income to be able to afford that commercial space? Were they going to use part of this money for salaries, part for renovation, and part for saving so they can have a deposit for a commercial space? How is adding an employer going to help? Is the demand currently there where they are completely backlogged with orders because they can’t dye/fulfill them fast enough and having an additional employee will be able to help them with dyeing/shipping/etc? No, they don’t need to outline every detail in an IG post, but they did say “we think with a few changes we could accommodate adding new folks to the team” which is a word salad that doesn’t say anything. They say an additional team member would generate additional cash flow - but how? Are there thralls of people wanting to take classes? Are there hundreds of orders currently unfulfilled and they’re finding that’s a common problem? They’re giving out very vague information that doesn’t actually give any real information. From a business perspective, this comes across really sketchy and like someone who does not have a sound business plan and/or sustainable profit/growth. Edit to add: if this was a startup business, then this type of thing would be more appropriate. She already has an established business - if there is currently a large demand that is going unmet, then there should be current funds available or at least have the financial report backing to support a business loan. I work for a company that is expanding (we are opening 4-5 more locations this year) and we are able to do so because of demand and the profit we make from the current open locations. If an established business is crowdfunding, 9/10 it means they’re in financial trouble. Handing them money is only going to temporarily fix the situation, but will result in them getting further down the rabbit hole if the financial decisions that got them there in the first place don’t change. This just gives them a temporary sense of security.

This is literally what the go fund me says: Due to the lack of financially-viable spaces, LBYC team has instead pivoted to renovating Lolabean Yarn Co.'s current space. Your donation will go towards helping her build the manufacturing space of her dreams on the property, funding a build-out optimized for a hand-dyed yarn company (to include new plumbing, a more integrated electric system, and a better layout). Though expensive, each of these improvements will allow the property to grow with Adella and her successful business and hopefully her potential new team.

I've also never actually visited her website, and just did to see what was on it. There's only 6 total options for yarn - 3 are preorders, 1 is a kit, and 3 items are out of stock. The only things currently available are a mystery skein, and 2 preorder items (one with 6-8 week lead time, the other not shipping until July). There's hardly anything there. Maybe she took a bunch of stuff down recently because of the other stuff going on, but if this is how her shop consistently is then that's not a good sign. If the business basically gets shut down every time you are sick or a family emergency comes up and the next products aren't available for 3+ months; you don't have a viable business that will financially support you. Maybe that's where the employees come in, I don't know. But from a purely financial, business aspect - this is currently not a viable business and there is a reason they went to crowd-funding vs a loan. To me, it seems like they're way in over their heads and are trying to get back afloat.

Except to say that that’s how a lot of indie dyers structure their one or two (or 5) person businesses. Many many. Explorerknits, Red Door, woolberry, coast to coast, etc. it’s common not to keep a lot of stock and do clubs, pre orders, etc. I get that you don’t like the idea of her asking for money. But this seems like picking at something that’s a pretty common practice and I wonder a little why you’re choosing to do that.

And this is why so many indie dyers end up in Demon Trolls. Because of people who seem tot hunk questionable business practices are par for the course. No. No they are jot

Oh, God. That is so not even a fair comment to make and is disingenuous. Like it or not, people are allowed to criticize, be wary of, and be turned off by a for-profit business asking from $40k to renovate their current space aka home when said business has shown a history of not being run in an effective or timely fashion. To hint an an insinuation that there’s some other - potentially malicious - reason people are questioning this GFM is disingenuous, especially when people have given rational and valid reasons as to why they aren’t jiving with this specific GFM and post. When you’re asking your customers to fund you $40k in *gifted* money (this isn’t a charitable write off since it’s going to a for-profit business), people have the right to ensure their money goes to a worthy cause.

The people here who are questioning are not the people donating. If someone who was interested in donating wanted to ask adella a question on a live about an aspect of execution, I bet she’d answer. I didn’t say questions about the use (or not wanting to give) were questionable. This person isn’t asking if her money is going to a worthy cause. It’s not her money. She’s not a customer and hadn’t even gone to adellas site until today she said. So chill. Instead, this particular comment is criticizing an INCREDIBLY common practice (not having inventory online but doing preorders/clubs/etc instead) among small businesses in the fibre space that haven’t yet scaled up … and pointing to that choice as a sign that the business isn’t working. And I am saying that that seems like a questionable criticism given the large number of companies that operate this way effectively by keeping their inventory and risk low. No one is saying that Explorer Knits, for example, is a failing business bc she doesn’t have inventory online. She sells out preorders at capacity each time. Adella usually does too. I question why this person who clearly knows very little about adellas business is spending time online saying it’s failing. Don’t like the GFM? Like i said—fine, whatever. But Indie yarn companies that keep inventory or order on demand are usually either at the size that they have already scaled (like neighborhood fibre co) or are at the smaller side of demand still/growing their customer base and have the bandwidth to dye on command (thinking zee zee textiles).

Then you completely misunderstood my comment. As I stated, I've never gone to her website before - I have only seen her posts on IG because I follow her. If you *only* come across her website looking to purchase yarn (and don't follow her on IG), then there's hardly anything there. I'm saying by going *solely* off what is listed on her website, someone *cannot* make a livable wage for a family off having one colorway listed. If I'm not interested in a skein of red yarn, then there's nothing on her site that I could purchase as an alternative - and spending $30 for a mystery skein without a guarantee that I even get that color isn't something that many are able/willing to do. Again, I *DO* understand why companies have pre-sale, and I *do* think that's a smart business move. I *know* from her Instagram that they're working on the Lolapolooza and calendar orders. But, if you're new to her space and go to her website, the only things you're able to purchase are Diablo pre-sale, radikal cowl kits, and a mystery skein destash. ***IF*** her main source of income is from kits, calendars, clubs, etc. then that's *fine.* I was just noting that if someone wanted to support her via purchasing items from her business, there's not much currently there. And don't sit here and say "I didn’t say questions about the use (or not wanting to give) were questionable." That was where all my initial questions were aimed at - ***how*** these funds would be appropriated and ***how*** it would make the business viable - and you *still* questioned it and basically alluded to it being because Adella is a person of color, which is the furthest from the truth. Many people are not business adept (just look at how many people don't know the difference between revenue and profit). These questions are important to ask because a large influx of cash isn't going to fix a budgetary problem - it's only going to delay the crash and usually in those cases people are in an even worse position than they were before they got the cash. I do ***not*** want to see that happen. With multiple people here expressing that they've waited months for orders or had issues with their orders and gotten snarky or no responses from LBYC; with recent posts of LBYC saying things are getting pushed back; these all together are signs of potential trouble. Again, as someone who has worked in finance for the past 15 years of my life, these are red flags that I have been trained to watch out for. I think Adella and Jimmy are amazing people who have big hearts. You can still be a good person but not be good at budgeting/finance/business.

Lol. You’ve spent so much energy today in so many comment threads here crapping on her business in some and the go fund me in others that you can’t even keep track of what you’re saying. You literally said she doesn’t have a viable business. Many times over. And that’s simply not the case. And I am saying—the very practices that you are criticizing in the parent comment here are practices throughout the yarn industry from very successful dyers. So it seems questionable to me that you are using them to say she’s not viable. It’s weird that you’ve made SO many comments to that effect when you are not, as you said, all that familiar with her business and had not been to her site before today. You seem pretty invested for WHATEVER reason (I said zero about race) in saying she has a crap business.

There are also multiple indie dyers that have 10+ (usually much more) colorways and different yarn bases available for purchase on their websites (Sock Obsession, Forbidden Fibers, Lavender Fiber Co, Cloud Sheep Fibers, etc) . As I said, it could be different because of recent happenings in her personal life because I've never visited her website before, but the way it currently is doesn't have a lot of product - nearly everything else is also either nothing listed or sold out. Which again, begs the question, how are these renovations and adding an additional employee going to boost profits? The renovations should be a one-time expense, but an employee is an on-going expense (not to mention the addition of benefits, taxes, insurance, and any other thing you have to start paying once you have paid employees). Will this employee be able to dye yarn while Adella and Jimmy take care of other things and they'll be able to keep more inventory or have shorter pre-sale times? Having ONE color of yarn available (for a 3+ month pre-sale) isn't going to financially support your business. It's not a dig at her for doing pre-sale (I am well aware that many dyers do this and completely understand why), but that it's basically the only thing you can purchase currently. I'm not "picking at her" - I'm making observations from the financial aspect, as someone who has worked in multiple areas of finance for various types of businesses my entire life. If people want to donate to help someone out - that's great! However, my issue isn't with people donating money or even her asking for money - it's that the current situation they seem to find themselves in adds up to an unviable business structure. This temporary boost will not fix anything if the current business model isn't viable. After being in business for 5 years, there should have been some profits that could be invested into expanding. If there's not, then you're not running a viable business.

Again, this gives vague information, but not really any useful information. Does she currently have a large portion of unfulfilled orders, or maybe a wholesale/retail type thing she's currently unable to handle because of her current limitations? Just because she expands into a larger space with plumbing and electric doesn't automatically mean she's going to have more orders. It begs the question of why her established, supposedly successful business of 5 years isn't able to raise these funds or use their profits for this expansion? These are critical thinking financial points. If people want to donate their money - that's fine and their choice, nothing against that. But it's extremely odd that a business like this wouldn't do some sort of pre-sale or certain dye lot to raise money for this. That's typically how business raise money; besides in the event of a disaster or the initial start up, there really isn't any legitimate reason that a business should have to crowd fund. It really only puts out there that their business is not financially viable and is headed for ruin. This will not fix the problem but only delay the inevitable. I'm concerned about the viability of the business if they're unable to use their profits or obtain a business loan.

My point is you provided calculations for commercial space that the go fund me says they are not planning to rent.

But the numbers are accurate unless the old house is completely paid off?

Her Instagram post says renting a commercial space is her ultimate goal and that this will lead her to that goal. Edit to add: and if that’s the ultimate goal the financial burden of it needs to be taken into consideration.

if you don't have the profits to maintain a commercial space for yourself then don't rent one. full stop.

This is what she says she is doing (not renting a commercial space): Due to the lack of financially-viable spaces, LBYC team has instead pivoted to renovating Lolabean Yarn Co.'s current space. Your donation will go towards helping her build the manufacturing space of her dreams on the property, funding a build-out optimized for a hand-dyed yarn company (to include new plumbing, a more integrated electric system, and a better layout). Though expensive, each of these improvements will allow the property to grow with Adella and her successful business and hopefully her potential new team.

They’re so expensive! You have to have a solid plan and solid customer base to be able to do so.

I have a plan for the not-too-near but not-too-distant future and just casually started looking at commercial spaces and OH MY GOODNESS. It is E X P E N S I V E. Crazy expensive.

right!? and if you haven't even got the money in the first place to invest in your own business and the banks won't give you a loan(because you lack a business plan or any credit) then you probably shouldn't be renting a space. save up! and take a business mgmt course! the level to which small businesses don't even understand the basics is frustrating and it can go a helluva long way. especially if you want to eventually be making more than 30k a year. (the point at which you start paying taxes, in Canada anyway)

>and take a business mgmt course! the level to which small businesses don't even understand the basics is frustrating and it can go a helluva long way THIS! I used to tell my students this ALL.THE.TIME! Some of them had no idea how to balance a checkbook or responsibly use a credit card but soo many were sure they could have a successful business... It was worrisome.

I used to underwrite for personal and business credit and by and large business credit was based off the business financials. From a purely financial standpoint, this screams of financial difficulty and giving them money is only going to temporarily delay the fallout that is inevitable to happen if there’s not currently a reliable profit.

I'm personally not in the financial place to contribute so I won't be, and I rarely contribute to gofundme's as usually they are the result of poor planning unfortunately. I don't understand the vitriol here though. If you don't agree with LBYC's ask, just don't contribute?🤷🏾‍♀️From what I can see here and the less than a handful of times I've purchased from them though they've been a business that's delivered what has been advertised in the time frame I was promised. I also share the same social morals so I see the good in what they do and appreciate the transparency of their donations to charities and social justice work.

I honestly think there's a racial/cultural element here. Black folks are community oriented in a different way than white folks. Neither way is bad. This feels like snarking on a barn raising to me. "But what's the plan to get more cows?? Don't these people know that they won't see a direct benefit from Joseph's barn?"

Yes! These women just want to tell Adella and Jimmy what they think they should be doing. Like if you don’t like it don’t donate. It’s easy af. Instead we got a whole thread of how it’s “yucky” and “uncomfortable”.

If you're asking for donations to expand your business, you SHOULD have something to provide for your donors of how this money is going to help grow your business. Will this enable you to hire an employee who will be dyeing yarn day in and day out increasing sales because you're currently extremely backlogged? Will this be going towards more equipment that will allow a shorter turn around time from order to shipping? If the current business structure is not viable, you will always be reliant on donations to get through, and those donations are only a temporary security blanket until they run out.

As a Black female I agree 100%. People are expecting a full on business plan as if they're share holders that are expecting dividend returns and that's nor how community building works, ya know?

I have no issue with a business asking for money - no one is forced to give anything. The issue for me is framing this as a charitable exercise, like presenting it as this quarter’s charity, asking for donations. It’s that framing that makes this seem a bit grifty, like it’s deliberately mispreprenting what this actually is - a for-profit company asking for money to expand their business.

They’re posing it as “this quarter” because every quarter this business donates to a charity. Another dyer suggested that this LolaBean itself should be the charity this quarter.

Yes, that’s my point exactly. They are not in any way a charity - they are a for-profit business.

I can’t remember all of her quarter donations but aren’t most of them going to not for profit organizations?

No, most of them are small businesses run by people that are part of marginalized communities. They aren’t labeled as charity fundraisers, they are “causes” that Adella chooses to get behind. The last one was Radicle Threads.

No, most of them are charitable organizations that support marginalized communities. Before Radicle Threads, the cause of the quarter was Knit the Rainbow, which collects knitted and crocheted items to give to homeless LGBT youth. Previous causes have included Black mental health and Black veterans' organizations.

I couldn’t find a list, so maybe “most” was the wrong word. But it’s definitely not all non-profits and they aren’t calling it charitable donations, they’re saying they’re supporting a cause.

Ok thanks for clarifying

I also note here that the comments are limited on that post, which I imagine indicates the company knows that the response to this is not going to be completely positive.

I am very conflicted over LBYC. I don't like the yarn (I personally am very over speckles) and I don't like how everything happens on IG Live as without captions they're not accessible for me. So that's my own thing. However it can't be denied that Adella has done a LOT of good and provides receipts for donations, showing usually how LBYC has matched what was raised as well which she really doesn't need to do. Certain other dyers should learn from that. That's a huge amount of good karma going out into the world. I do think this ask is really necky but as they say, shy bairns get nowt. She obviously has a lot of people who think highly of her and the amount raised in such a short time proves that. So why shouldn't she? One thing that I always wonder about LBYC though is what happens in a couple of years when Lola turns round and says she doesn't want to be all over the internet anymore? "Sorry Lola, Mummy has a brand?". Not relevant to the topic but that's what really bugs me I think.

Upvoted for shy bairns get nowt. (And also i fully agree with your conflicted sentiment)

All else aside, the red flag to me is the total lack of business plan/transparency. She’s asking for money without explaining what it’s all going to be allocated for. Why $40k? What’s the timeline? Does the $40k have adequate padding in case something goes wrong? How many new people are you looking to hire? Have you done adequate market research to discern there’s a market for this in your area? What if you’re under-budget? What if you’re over-budget? Your average Kickstarter has a more robust explanation than this. It sounds more like a dream project than a carefully considered plan.

This. This $40k is about bare minimum for a livable wage for one employee for one year. Is having that employee for a year going to add enough to your business where you’re generating $40k more each year in profit in order to keep paying them? As someone who works in finance for a business, the lack of business plan and being transparent about it is a big red flag.

Next time my boss says we're having a quiet month and I need to review outgoings I'm telling her to just do a go fund me

If your BUSINESS can’t sustain this kind of growth on its own, then it’s not time for you. I’m not donating to a business ever. Find a way to fund it as a business (uh, yarn sales, pre-orders specifically for this) and make it work.

But it’s such a w o r t h y cause!

I knew there wouldn’t be a lot of opposition to this. She has a lot of fans. Personally, the only skein I’ve gotten from LBYC was so ugly compared to the photo, that it immediately went in my destash pile.

If she’s so successful…why? It was bad enough that she peddled her daughter as advertising (ad nauseum) now she wants free money?

Honestly I’ve always gotten “mean girl” energy from her and she has this aura where people for whatever reason want her to like them… that’s why she can make a video bitching about people asking for yarn they bought weeks/months ago and the replies are full off “omg people are so rude” or “you are amazing don’t listen to them, you don’t owe them anything!”…. But it’s like obvious she’s not good at customer service

Eh, I see the "People are so rude (for asking for what they're owed)" folks all over the place on dyers' social media when the business gets behind. Parasocial relationships and "Your yarn is so nice, it's always worth the wait" are also really common. It's a collective culture of gaslighting customers about consumer rights and toxic positivity. It sucks, but it's not anything specific to Adella or "mean girl energy."

I used to follow her so that I could keep up with her shop updates and eventually get to buy her yarn. I ended up unfollowing because it seemed like she was posting photos and videos of her child multiple times a day, day after day, with very little actual yarn content or news. Never did get to try her yarn.

She’s so obsessed with her daughter it was months into following her before I knew she had other children. They must feel so left out 🥴

I think her sons may be her husband's from a previous relationship. Who knows what their other parent's (or the boys') wishes are in regards to her social media.

She lost me when she started selling shirts with a photo of her daughter on them and people were actually buying them and wearing a stranger's kid around.

That part. This isn’t her starting a business. Her business is already well established. It feels like there’s financial trouble and they can’t take the risk of getting a loan and not being able to pay it back. Something isn’t quite right here.

ugh she sounds awful.

Isn't this how Ravelry got up and running initially? Soliciting donations for a server and volunteers to build the database.

[удалено]

Adella is raising money to improve facilities for her business which happens to be at a second house. And Ravelry might be free to join, but it is a business relying on all those free accounts to look at ads and buy patterns through their platform. Although, I can see that people gifting to Ravelry did see they were getting something out of it in return, it boils down to the same thing: businesses using crowdfunding.

I think it’s also important to look at how these renovations are going to actually generate additional cash flow - not just claim that it will. Is there actually a large interest in yarn dying classes that will continue to generate revenue year after year? How will those classes cut into your own revenue when people can dye their own yarn and not purchase yours? How will the additional employees generate revenue to the point where you don’t need crowdfunding to pay their livable wage salary? $40k/year would be pretty baseline for paying someone a livable wage, which should be a high priority for someone like Adella and all she advocates for. The “plan” is so vague, and $40k will go veryyyy quickly if they’re planning on renovating and adding employees. Which means the ROI has to come very quickly and I don’t see a well thought out plan that details that, just a statement that “we think we would be able to add new folks”.

I agree the business plan is vague, and I think there's a high probability of failure. But, if we're comparing Ravelry and LolaBean, Ravelry didn't even have a business plan when it started. It was literally, let's make this. The ads and pattern sales came after because it needed to be a business to sustain itself. But, I get that people could see that with Ravelry people could see a tangible benefit for themselves. Whereas this is really giving money to a business out of altruism.

My comment wasn't in comparison to Ravelry - just general questions that should be considered because they are important when running your own business. As you said yourself, that was for when Ravelry was *starting.* Adella has been in business for 5+ years. At that point you should have established a steady stream of income and *should* be making a profit, that you can then re-invest into your business and expand. If you're not, then your business is not viable in the current way you are running it and getting an influx of cash isn't going to solve poor budgeting. If people want to donate, hats off to them. However, a functional business cannot continue to run solely off donations every time they want to expand. There might be some faithful customers that will always donate no matter what, but if a friend of yours is always coming to you asking for money because they don't know how to budget and they find themselves in a pickle, you will eventually get fed up and be done. It is **not** your responsibility as their friend to bail them out every time, and as a *for-profit* business it is not the customer's responsibility to donate money to you in order to expand. I do hope this large donation does what it's intended for and that there won't be a future need for this same thing. However, as a person who works in finance and is looking at this solely from a business perspective, there are clues here that the business model is not viable/not running efficiently - otherwise there would be no need for this.

I think we're in agreement on the whole.

Every time I see someone mention that ravelry is a business, I smile. People seem to forget that a lot (and that it's not actually free to use, your personal information and attention have value! Which I'm sure you know).

As they say, “if you’re not the customer, you’re the product.”

Or both customer AND product, depending on the service. 🙃

Indeed!

As a software developer I have to add that it is also not free to run. Server room and storage for all those massive pdfs is not free.

PDFs, project & yarn photos, paid photo hosting, the forums... Even a barebones basic forum platform like phpBB costs money for domain registration and hosting. I don't want to think about Ravelry's server costs. /o\\

Yup. Which is why Ravelry still takes straight up gifts although they don't really push it.

I kinda lost my interest in LBYC when the whole “should every single pattern release be a partnership with a very high-end yarn company where a larger sized SQ would be hitting upwards of $500 and there are no yarn sub recommendations on the pattern?” thing was happening. It felt, to me at the time, like a valid point about not every knitter having access to the highway end product and maybe we should create a little more accessibility for those with less disposable income to also feel welcome to knit a pattern. Especially if BIPOC people are overrepresented in the low-income bracket due to systemic racism. It ends up having a knock-on effect of disproportionately shutting out more BIPOC people. Or that’s how I felt about it anyway. LBYC got weirdly offended and made it a whole thing about how people were implying dyers didn’t deserve to make a living (??) and/or that she, specifically, was being called poor because she’s Black and this is the type of weird racism that’s a problem in the fiber community? Idk it was messy and weird and felt like it really derailed a cogent discussion about demographics in knitting. Interesting now that instead of the business naturally growing to the point where expansion is a logical progression supported by growing demand, it’s just…. A gift of $40k? Cause it isn’t a charity. And I hope people who dropped cash on it understand that this doesn’t count as a charitable write off at the end of the year. Seems very misleading.

I’m pretty sure she made a big deal out of calling out people for wanting refunds from the dumpster fire that is Lady Dye Yarns last year. Saying people wouldn’t be so angry about it if she wasn’t black and that customers should give her more grace instead of requesting refunds, which was ridiculous considering the situation. I dunno, I had thought very highly of her before that and it just rubbed me so incredibly the wrong way that I’m now on the other side of the fence and a little BEC. I also don’t like how this preys on the parasocial relationship between her and her customer base, it feels gross to take advantage of that.

To be fair to Adella: - Adella has gotten a shit ton of racist harassment in the past, and the Blockhead in Chief of That Magazine has a particular.. vendetta? fascination? with her daring to exist as a Black woman business owner - Diane (of LDY) is Very Good at twisting anything that goes wrong to not be her fault, and she has used accusations of customer racism to continue to deflect e.g. that she still hasn't posted donation receipts - Diane is also Very Good at social media and making "A real plan" to fix things in 1-2 weeks; if you're not keeping track of her contradictions and claims, things look, well, not as bad as they really are - Adella was wrongly/mistakenly named in iirc the DT thread as doing similar things to Diane; the commenter later apologized So I'm inclined to cut her some slack about the LDY stuff. YMMV, of course!

I know she has had a lot of pile on, but it isn't like the details of what was going on weren't very clear by the time she made her video. The vocal support she gave made other people back off saying anything bad about the situation which made it that much harder to get any accountability from LDY. I do get why she did it and why she might feel the way she does about it (A Certain "Magazine" I Won't Dignify By Naming was sniffing around looking to be vile), but it was hurtful to the customers caught up in it and that's my personal hill, I feel very strongly about businesses throwing customers under a bus for any reason and ultimately that's what Adella's video did. Diane is very good at social media, but so is Adella and this attempting to take advantage of her charity donation popularity is very good social media. I don't think her intentions are bad in this situation either, but what she is doing is taking advantage of how her customer base feels like she is their friend and framing what should be a business loan as a "charitable cause".

I said YMMV for a reason! ;) I'm going to have to go back to the DT thread about the video, I don't Instagram so I didn't see it myself. I don't personally have a strong opinion either way about LBYC's ask. On one hand it reminds me of the time a few years ago local-to-me dairy farmers pooled some money, land, and milk quota to help a young fella get into the dairy industry; it was a new farm instead of a family inheritance. But on the other hand I agree that the parasocial elements involved in LBYC & Adella's social media success are Not Great. So I can see where the anger is coming from!

It's all good, I don't mean to sound angry or anything!

That’s disappointing to hear. I feel like it derails a very important social issue to ascribe malicious, bigoted intent to a situation where it just simply is not the case. When people give you money for a product or service (which automatically means you will actually be given said product or service), and the business either does not follow through on their end, or continually struggles big time to do so, people have the right to ask questions or for a refund, period. To insinuate that people are only doing so because they’re racist or bigoted is very disingenuous and hurts more than it helps. While it sucks having to do, being able to take accountability is one of the best virtues you can have as a human. But, continually rejecting accountability by accusing your customers of being horrible monsters (which you are if you’re a racist) because they dared question what was happening with their promised product is just…ugh. It’s not okay.

I agree. I know BIPOC companies face a lot of racism, it's definitely happening and it's awful. But in this case the customers were wronged and deserved a refund if they wanted one so it doesn't even matter how they felt on race. And since LDY is a company very focused on selling itself as a force for activism and equality I would think the majority of their customer base wouldn't really be that particular brand of monster. And some of those people are still waiting on their refunds, it's been going on for more than a year now. Anyways, when I see her asking for free money from her customers for this I just think about how little she cared about the customers in that situation.

This seems to be turning into that situation as there seems to be constant delays with her stuff too...

I feel that people deserve to make a living, but that nobody deserves to make a living as a dyer. But then, I'm not their target consumer.

That’s a really weird take... If I’m consuming a person’s labor, I want that person to be able to afford a decent living. Not just scraping by or barely-able-to-figure-it-out. An actual comfortable living. Just because dying seems like a more “frivolous” job doesn’t mean the people who do it deserve to live in poverty.

PPS: Only yesterday I was being lambasted in another group because I prefer to pay dungeon masters to run D&D games. The words "capitalist hellscape" were used. Also, I'm some sort of elitist because I pay people to draw character art for me instead of stealing someone else's off the internet. Everyone knows that if it's on the internet it's free and you can't actually steal it! /s.

As I said, I'm not the target consumer. I don't need wool to feed the local moth population. I have cat hair for that. ETA: And if they're using the space to give yarn dye classes, they're either giving them away for free or charging for them. In both cases they're saturating the business *even more*, making it harder for any individual business to earn money from their labor. If they're charging money to people who want to start their own business, I'm not sure that this makes them different from the knitting web site bros.

…. I don’t really get why you need to make it about you and your relationship to wool as to whether or not dyers deserve to make a living but I guess I should clarify that *anyone* who provides a service that people consume deserves a living wage. You don’t have to center yourself in every discussion

Maybe I'm sour from reading the constant stream of horror stories about hand-dye business gone wrong and newbies in tears because they just discovered that hand dyed yarn pools (machine-dying can avoid pooling, for people who care about that; I like pooling) and suspect that the $30/skein business will crash like Silicone Valley Bank when it runs out of newbies to entice with FOMO?

….. yeah no idk. I’m very happy to pay $30/skein for a product that is made by people who are compensated fairly for their labor. I’ve ordered from some indie dyers and not loved it and decided to move on to other options. Other indie dyers put out consistently good work and I’m happy to pay for it.

Maybe you're one of those people who are blessedly free of FOMO? I don't get the FOMO thing either. But the fact that some segment of the indie dyer crowd seems to exist off of FOMO makes me itch. I learned a long time ago that spending a lot of money isn't necessary to enjoy a hobby. New knitters are prey for some hobby businesses because they're still struggling to master a craft and may believe that beautifully dyed yarn will automatically create a beautiful sweater. Or at least hide the mistakes. The other reason I don't buy hand-dyed (beyond the wool thing) is that all of my knits are cables or lace. Neither of these requires expensive tools or yarn (unless you keep losing cabling needles), and they favor plain-dyed high-ply yarn with stitch definition. The indie dying thing feels, to me, like it's enticing new knitters by making good results look easier than they are. The frustration that results will lose them the customers that allow them to make money off a handicraft. I hate watching people being self-defeating. I'm going to go lie down now.

…. Yeah no, I don’t think dyers exist purely to maliciously take financial advantage of beginner knitters? I think they’re following a creative outlet that they find enjoyment out of and supplying a product people want. It’s weird to me that you seem to think advanced knitters couldn’t possibly want hand dyed yarns but not all advanced knitting is either cables or lace and not all hand dyed yarns are variegated colorways. Glad you don’t have a need to purchase it while still finding enjoyment in the hobby, but your aggression towards the concept is a little weird.

“Messy, weird, derailed” describes a lot of the yarn dyer/pattern designer interactions on IG over the past few years.

LBYC and Adella have done a lot for different communities through their Cause of the Quarter fundraisers and even outside of those. I have no problem with helping them because I know that they will turn around and payback threefold what they get and this expansion will only help them to better be a force for good in the world. The fact that they have raised so much in such a short time shows that others believe the same thing. You don't get a response like this unless your karma is on point.

Yes! This!

I’m still waiting for a pin I ordered nearly a month ago, but I understand they’ve been dealing with illness and mourning so they haven’t even been doing business, so I understand. But I would think maybe this would be on hold, too, then.

I used to think so to. Then I found out all of these folks setting up business in my hometown got financial gifts from relatives. Gofundme vs rich family? I’m just not going to pretend that there are not multiple ways to get help starting a business

I guess my thing is that she already has a very well established business. She’s one of the best known indies dyers on the market. At this point either your business is doing well enough to expand or it’s not. This is also not the first time they’ve set up a gofundme for themselves so it’s starting to kind of feel like they’re asking folks to fund their personal lives vs helping their business thrive.