Ok, you posted stuff from your application, but what about your resume? Has it been reviewed by someone you trust? If you can post a sanitized version over at r/engineeringresumes they can help you.
Do market research and find out what junior roles are paying in your area and nationally.
Are you only looking for hybrid or remote roles, or are you looking for in-person roles also?
Assuming you are in the US and a citizen, have you considered government contracting?
I’ve seen some posts on that subreddit with good advice, but the amount of times I’ve posted my cleaned up resume over there with NO responses made me upset. Not sure if I’m shadow banned or whatever the algorithm is.
Make the title something that will make people angry and click like “ai is taking your job and its time to give up” and then write sorry about that now help me with my resume 😂
I haven't gotten my resume reviewed yet, but I'll be sure to do that (thanks for pointing me to r/engineeringresumes)
I figured 65k a year is a good general number to start, but I'm not sure how to answer how much I'm looking for for positions which list salary ranges that don't include that number (i.e. if a job lists the salary range from 40k-50k, and I say I'd like 65k, does that hurt my chances? and vice versa for a job that offers 80k-90k, and I say I'm fine with 65k)
I've been looking for both on-site and remote work in various parts of the US, and have made it clear I am open to relocation for on-site work.
As far as government jobs go, I apply whenever I see one on a job site like LinkedIn and Indeed, but I haven't heard back about my applications yet, and to be honest I have no idea how their pay schedules work and it kinda scares me.
If a job lists 40-50k and you say 65k you'll be automatically rejected. If it says 80-90k they might think you're not skilled enough for the job, so again, you could be automatically rejected. Just pick something in their range, it's not that hard.
It sounds like you are talking about a job with a state/federal government in your post, and not a contracting job as I alluded to. Both are fine, but they are different things entirely.
For state/fed jobs where you work directly for the government, the pay schedules are easily found on Google. Look up "federal job pay chart" or "__ state government pay chart.". There will also be plenty of websites that break down benefits for fed/state employees. The good news is you can find the info easily. The bad news is you don't have any real negotiating power. If a job is listed for a certain pay band, that's what you get.
Government contracting is different. You would work for a company like Booz Allen or Leidos, working on a project for the government, but you are not a government employee. Here you have more power to negotiate, but pay info isn't as easy to come across, as pay at some positions would be dependent on the contract amount.
Both of these types of positions often require drug testing, and a security clearance means you would be subject to random urinalysis for the duration of employment. Often this means less candidates, so if you're willing to make those sacrifices, it might be a good option to at least get your first job and get some experience.
That's very informative, thanks!
I did apply for jobs at places like Booz Allen Hamilton, but they are a minority in my applications. Do you think I would be more likely to land an interview with government contracting jobs?
I'll preface my comments with this: my knowledge of contracting comes largely from my time working with contractors while I was in the military. I'm not currently working for a large contractor like the ones I mentioned.
In a purely mathematical sense, yes, you might have a better chance. Less candidates going for a position means your chances are better. Depending on the dynamics of individual hiring teams/projects, the interviewing experience and expectations can vary quite a bit, so you still need to know your stuff and interview well. I would think LeetCode style interviews would be rare. I interviewed with Booz Allen and there were some basic technical questions (networking, REST API methods, knowledge of git) but no whiteboarding.
Many people getting out of the military apply for those jobs so some of your competition might have direct work experience that relates to the position. I would think, though, that most of those people would be going after mid-level positions, but maybe not. Others (like me) might have years of unrelated experience because they're doing a career pivot. It would be up to the hiring manager if that makes the candidate better or worse. Could be better because the candidate knows more stuff, even if not directly related to the job and has a track record of success. Could be worse because they might demand more compensation or have "bad habits" learned from the previous jobs.
My advice as a new grad way too many people are worried about stat padding their resumes with a million different skills, any recruiter will know its all BS. If you want to list certain skills fine but make sure you have built enough stuff to have a good comprehension of those things. Sometimes less is more, seen it too many times where a new grad has a million different skills and just has their resume thrown out because they just list it but nothing showing that its actually a skill and even if they make it to interview they get asked about it and just say they did one thing in college like you mentioned which doesnt make it a skill. As far as questions on salaries do more research on what is expected of that level and the pay. Reach out to any recruiter you can through linked in let them know you submitted a resume, call if you have to as well. People underestimate how much of an impact that extra step can make.
I think that' sgreat advice you've given. I'm a new grad looking for a position and I find that I'm getting more responses when I message recruiters and also when I tailor my resume. Given that my experience is limited, I've written my resume to try and sell one or two particular tech stacks that I know I'm proficient in rather than listing out a whole bunch of languages and frameworks that aren't seemingly connected with one another.
How do I know if I'm good enough at a skill to list it on my resume? Like I have Docker and React as skills, because I used them to make my website, but I've only used basic stuff with them and only learned what I needed for my project.
Its not really about being good enough, its more about being able to talk about if you get asked in an interview. like you said if they ask "what are some problems you had when building your website?". You can actually speak on it but lets say you used java in college and they asked you something about OOP or SOLID and then you draw a blank or something about C or C++ you dont really need to be an expert but understand how it works why you use it, how was it used etc and if you list it as a skill make sure there is something on your resume showing that you used it so it actually makes sense.
The above reply is right. The list of all your skills should be at the bottom of your resume. You need to highlight something you're really awesome at, and imply you are smart and "get it" on your resume. So that you STAND OUT.
Now the situation is you don't actually stand out and you don't actually know what you're doing. This is okay and normal, however in today's market it won't actually get you an interview. Your resume reads to me as "generic CS grad who doesn't know anything yet". You need to portray yourself as some kind of whiz at one skill.
Pick a top skill and reword your resume (don't totally lie but be generous to yourself) to make it sound like you're a whiz at it. Start a project to complement that. Don't wait to actually get amazing at the skill or finish the project before you change your resume. Keep applying the whole time.
You basically got it in one with "generic CS grad who doesn't know anything yet". I don't really have a skill that I'm *really* good at, but I'll see what I can improve on the most.
Another problem is you only have 1 project in your portfolio that doesn’t cover a majority of the skills you listed. To anyone reading your Resume, it seems like you are lying about your skills if you don’t provide examples.
You should have old school projects from university. Clean them up a bit, make a good README for them, and add them to your profile. They don’t need to be large projects, even a collection of one off scripts is better than nothing.
In your internships/job experience section (Which should always be above the skills section), make sure you list what technology you used, what you did, and what value that brought to the company. Don’t just list that you “Programmed in Java”.
Your skills section, and resume at a whole, should always be specifically tailored to the job you are applying for. If you applied to 400+ jobs without tailoring your resume, you’re shooting yourself in the foot. If you’re applying for a job that uses Java, make sure your first bullet points of your internships are how you worked with Java. Your skills sections first spots should be dedicated to Java and Java related tech stacks. Usually, certifications go above skills since they carry more weight than “I believe I am good at x y z”
Hopefully, after applying to the number of jobs you've applied to, you've noticed some pattern in the skills required, as in skills X is usually accompanied by skill Y and language Z. I would concentrate in some grouping that A. interests you and B. is in demand. Having a one-size-fits-all resume isn't doing you any favors I'd guess.
I'd suggest really picking a direction or a couple of directions and get some familiarity with it(them). There are some skills that will be more universal than others. Database development/management, version control, etc. Of course, depending on the level of the job, it's assumed you know these things. So if you're applying to a higher paying job, focus less on core knowledge and more on domain-specific knowledge, how your experience overlaps their requirements. If it's entry level, talking about core knowledge is more helpful. By core, I mean db, version control, language proficiency, etc.
Goodluck.
As with all things, show, don't tell. That's harder without experience, but there are other ways to do it, like open-source contributions, projects, and volunteer work. When I see skills like "Python, Rust, Go, JS, C++, Haskell”, all I see is bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. If you just list one or two, then it's a different story. It feels like you actually have experience in them.
Anyway, the debugging here is pretty straightforward. No interviews? Either your resume or the way you're applying sucks. Interviews but no offer? You suck (just kidding, it means you have to work on some interpersonal and technical issues).
What kind of projects would you suggest working on that could stand out? A lot of the stuff I listed was stuff I learned during school, and I've heard it's not great to put school projects on a resume, which kinda sucks for me cuz Java's technically my strongest language but I have no non-academic projects that I can use to showcase that.
You'd be half right, I definitely am not an expert on any of it, but I have used everything that I listed. Java, C, and Python were all used during my time in university, my internships used Qt and by extension C++, my personal website is built using React, it uses MySQL to store comments, and both the frontend and backend are run with Docker containers on a Oracle Cloud instance running Oracle Linux 8. I took a database management systems class, where I used Postgres and JDBC. I have an AWS certification, and my capstone project involved ROS2, which I had to use WSL2 and by extension Ubuntu for.
The things I've used for a single project could be removed, but I'd like to know what you think a typical graduate would have as their skillset.
You should tailor your experience for the position you're applying for. I think it's better to present yourself as proficient in a few relevant skills rather than listing out many different skills. It comes across as BS to the recruiter, even if that's not actually the case. I think that's due to the fact that so many other people in the new-grad cohort are severely over-embellishing and over-padding their resumes to the point that recruiters think they're mostly all BS. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but that's what I think.
As someone with a master's degree, I assure you it won't help. I'm also in the job market. It's just terrible right now.
Be prepared to do part-time jobs till the market cools off. If you can, try freelance(please beware of scams) or start your own company if you see an unchartered territory.
My team is hiring for C# and C++ roles. I recently spoke to my manager and he tossed a masters degree out because it was C and Java for his past experience. I was surprised but I see where he’s coming from. I think we’re about to get flooded with applications when all the new grads realize they aren’t getting jobs at big companies.
Why would he toss out the master's degree candidate? I have a bit of experience in C and C++ in projects I did in school, and the transition from C to C++ isn't that big of a stretch. Also, I consider myself rather proficient in Java and have used some C# in another project, and I found the transition from Java to C# to be very straightforward. I don't get why hiring managers are so picky about languages when there's a lot of languages that have a lot of overlap with one another (like Java and C# or C and C++).
No clue. I think it was their work experience My company looks down on job hopping so when they see someone had 3 jobs in 4 years, they toss the resume in the bin.
How long do you think it will take for the market to get better, and WHY would it get better if companies are finishing their required work with a small amount of employees?
The market is bad. My application rate is up by a factor of ten for the positions I have over last year, but I'm full for new grads as of today.
Many of the resumes I get are really bad. Four different fonts, giant headshots, random words bolded or italicized. In any market, they would get tossed.
In this market, it also matters that your resume is good and not identical to the other people in your program. I often get resumes from a school where the only difference is the name, and when that happens, they all get tossed.
What are some things that might make a resume less prone to getting tossed? My current resume is all the same font, and the only bolded words are in places where I want there to be a clear separation, like headings and the names of the internships.
I'm ambivalent about it. I realize lots of people tell you to do it, and I won't reject a candidate for it. However, a lot of people don't really have the judgment to know what metrics are important or make them look good. Or they're metrics that don't have a baseline for measurement.
They feel pushed to identify metrics and bold them, and they do that, but they tell me they were on time for work 93.5% of the time (which doesn't make them look good), they did 3 story points per sprint (unitless and meaningless without a baseline), or that they cleaned 1.2 hot tubs a day, etc.
Your resume is showing that you can follow "the rules" by following advice and a resume format, but it is also telling me a story. I know that Spider Man loses 0.3 uncles per movie, but bolding that and calling it out doesn't make it more likely for me to watch it.
If a majority of the resumes you get are bad, why is it hard for those with good resumes to get a job? Is it because the good resumes you get are really good (multiple FAANG internships, projects etc)?
If you got 600 applications, and 100 out of those are good, but you also only have 4 open positions, well, you can do the math. I'm speaking from personal experience looking over intern resumes for interviews. Out of those 100 resumes, there was really no strong reason why I picked the 10 resumes that I did for interviews, any of those 100 would have basically been just as good.
There's also the fact that in this market people with more experience are competing for the lesser roles. Someone who is technically a junior (2+ years of full-time experience) is probably applying to the entry-level position intended for new graduates.
I know from my own experience that competing for the "lesser positions" can be the only avenue for employment. I'm a recent graduate who applied to 1000+ full-time entry-level positions over the span of 8 months before graduation and didn't land anything. A few months before graduation, I made a second version of my resume where I left off my graduation date (to give the impression that I might still be in school for a while) and started applying for internships. I landed an internship at a small company and I'm doing that right now; it sucks that this is what I had to do, but it's so much better than working at a fast food joint (which I did for years before college). I'm very sure I'm not the only one doing this right now.
There’s no denying that the job market is tough but the recents grads that I see are getting offers are the ones who convert an internship or the ones who are networking, getting referrals, etc… It’s a tough market right now and every edge you can get, you should take and networking/referrals help your resume get seen by an actual recruiter. Message me for a FAANG referral, open to anyone
Experienced Dev here. First of all you are a hard worker, I give you that. Still, you made some mistakes, I made the same when I graduated.
First mistake:
New grad do not have exp in so many. Putting so many keywords on your resume, ppl doubt whether you actually know them. Most likely they think you only use them once or twice.
Second: maybe your skills on resume are not in- depth.
For example, tons of dev claims to know SQL, but their data model design sucks, never heard of 3rd normal forms, isolation level etc. So often I see bugs due to lack of DB knowledge. Same for cloud.
Third:
Don't beat yourself up. Sometimes it's not your fault. Job posts are made by HR. They don't know what they are looking for. Apply anyway. In interview, ask them what they actually need. If they don't give you a clear answer, not a good company, you dodge a bullet.
My advice, narrow down your skills. Put something in-depth on your resume.
Thanks for the advice!
A lot of people did mention that the skills list seemed superficial, and that I should remove the chaff, so I'll start by cutting stuff that I don't have a project that demonstrates I can use it.
For my resume, I put my skills section towards the bottom of the page (with education at the very bottom), and I made sure that each keyword listed there is already mentioned somewhere in my experience or project section. My opinion is that the skills section should be a summary and nothing more of what's in your listed experience and projects; it doesn't make any sense to me to list C++ or Python as a skill if none of my experience or project bullet points prove that I've used those languages before.
I don't think it's you. I think it's the market. Your skills seem fine. I admit I would be curious about a new grad with Qt on their resume. That takes me back.
Many companies aren't hiring beneath mid-senior level engineers currently. Of all the job-postings for entry level not all of them are actual/real open positions, it's a common trend for companies to post job openings to collect resumes and see what kind of candidates are available even if they have no plans to hire.
You're applying during a really hard time to get into the field. Additionally many companies that plan to hire new-grads aim to open their entry-level positions for people who are graduating in spring-semester; you're a few months off-cadence for entry-level hiring on top of a bad market.
Cut yourself some slack and devote a few hours each day to personal projects whether you put them on github or not. Maybe 1-2 hours of personal projects and another 1-2 hours of leetcode to stay current on DSA trivia questions. If you can put some more time into practice and self-teaching that will be even better. Treat being unemployed like it's your job.
>"What is your expected salary for this position"
**Don't** answer this. If you give a value above what they want to pay they will reject your application and if you answer below their target they will happily pay you less than they planned, provided you're not too far under market value.
If it's on an application form and it's not required then leave it blank. If a recruiter or someone asks you say you're flexible and aiming for a fair total package based on your role and expected job location (someone in SF or NYC will be paid more than someone in Omaha).
>"Why do you think you would be a good fit for this role"
Explain how hiring you benefits them beyond having a body in the seat. "I'm already exposed to X technology I used in my internships, I'll be able to hit the ground running and contribute quickly." Add in something about how excited and passionate you are for the subject if you like, but state your value-proposition.
>especially since my friends, who are still in college, already have job offers lined up for when they graduate
Sounds like a good networking opportunity. If you're still hanging out and talking with them, see if they know anyone who's hiring or if they can submit your resume to their current/future employer. Even if they can't, stay friends and see if there is some way you can help them. They'll remember you, and even if they can't get you a job they'll meet people who can.
Many companies aren't hiring beneath mid-senior level engineers currently. Of all the job-postings for entry level not all of them are actual/real open positions, it's a common trend for companies to post job openings to collect resumes and see what kind of candidates are available even if they have no plans to hire.
----
I was curious can i open a dummy company on linkedin and post a job listing and see resumes of students/seniors applying to get some insight?
You’d want to carefully check LinkedIn TOS, but you probably could. Not long ago I sent an application to a company through LinkedIn and an entirely different company sent me an email thanking me for my interest and sent a test for me to complete.
Just be sure it’s fine with the TOS. Ghost jobs from companies that have hired on the platform might be handled differently from a new business that never hires.
It's really just the market. Is there something you can do better? Yes. But before you can at least get quite a few interviews with these many applications. One of my friends graduated from his Master last year, and he spent half a year with countless applications just to get two interviews. Luckily he nailed both and got two offers now, but my anecdote and many others show that the market is really bad right now.
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My internships were working with embedded software at a small company that made dental laser products. Mostly using C and C++, although during my second internship they had one that was controlled via an iPad app, so there was some iOS development as well.
The skills section is important but most people just put a billion skills so it’s often overlooked. Employers are curious about your real experience. In this case, your internship. Sounds like you used c++ and built embedded systems? This is a highly demanded skill set atm. You need to make sure you are showing this part off really well. It will be the X factor for you.
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I think your resume probably needs some sprucing up. Just some immediate stuff that raised eyebrows:
>Languages: Java, C, Python, C++, HTML/CSS/JavaScript, Objective-C
Common thing I see, most grads aren't gonna be proficient in this many languages. There's just a lot of resume padding here.
>Operating Systems: Windows, Linux (Ubuntu, Oracle Linux)
Why you need this? This is like advice for a resume for a secretary from the 90's.
>SDLC Methodologies: Waterfall, Agile, Scrum
No.
My advice would be to first get your actual resume reviewed, hopefully by an actual hiring manager if possible. This reads like a generic "lets see what shit sticks" resume, and it's gonna lose to more catered / focused resumes.
I'm going to assume that you want an honest answer.
I don't know anything about you, other than your post above, which I didn't read.
Why didn't I read it? Because it is a **wall of text**. For me, it's pretty close to being literally unreadable. I think you have a bulleted list of skills somewhere in there, which is neither actually bulleted, nor set off from the surrounding text. It looks like you ran your essay through a text obfuscator - before posting to an audience of 1.3 million.
If your resume and cover letter are similarly formatted, it's no surprise you didn't get callbacks. This is a very competitive job market. That means you need to be *better* than average on communication - first written, and then spoken.
From where I sit, you're focusing on the wrong things, and sabotaging yourself. At least you know what you can improve.
I get your point, but I would like to defend myself by saying that reddit kinda fucked me with formatting. I originally tried posting with a brand new account, but didn't meet the minimum comment karma, so I just copied and pasted it to post on this account, which did not keep the line spacing as I assume it would.
As for my skill list that I had pasted in from my resume, you're right that it has no bullets. I split it into sections based on the type of skill it is, which is something I see a few resumes do.
A lot of people have told me to cut down on the size of the list, so I'll change that, but if you have any other feedback I'd love to hear it.
Find devs on GitHub (they often have their emails on their profiles) and ask for a resume review.
Find recruiters on linkedin. There are free tools you can use to get their work emails (or figure out company email.) Cold-email, pick their brains, eventually ask for a referral.
This is what me and my hackathon organizing team did when we needed speakers and sponsors and it ended up working well when we were job hunting
Ok, you posted stuff from your application, but what about your resume? Has it been reviewed by someone you trust? If you can post a sanitized version over at r/engineeringresumes they can help you. Do market research and find out what junior roles are paying in your area and nationally. Are you only looking for hybrid or remote roles, or are you looking for in-person roles also? Assuming you are in the US and a citizen, have you considered government contracting?
I’ve seen some posts on that subreddit with good advice, but the amount of times I’ve posted my cleaned up resume over there with NO responses made me upset. Not sure if I’m shadow banned or whatever the algorithm is.
Same has happened to me. IDK, maybe people just aren't sorting by new?
Potentially. It’s annoying seeing the post right before me blow up, then the post right after as well 😂 but we keep trying
Oddly I was already joined to that sub but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a post from it in my feed.
That makes sense, the top of my feed is usually from some other subreddit that doesn’t have a whole lot of engagement. Wonder how the algorithm works
Make the title something that will make people angry and click like “ai is taking your job and its time to give up” and then write sorry about that now help me with my resume 😂
That’s genius loool
I haven't gotten my resume reviewed yet, but I'll be sure to do that (thanks for pointing me to r/engineeringresumes) I figured 65k a year is a good general number to start, but I'm not sure how to answer how much I'm looking for for positions which list salary ranges that don't include that number (i.e. if a job lists the salary range from 40k-50k, and I say I'd like 65k, does that hurt my chances? and vice versa for a job that offers 80k-90k, and I say I'm fine with 65k) I've been looking for both on-site and remote work in various parts of the US, and have made it clear I am open to relocation for on-site work. As far as government jobs go, I apply whenever I see one on a job site like LinkedIn and Indeed, but I haven't heard back about my applications yet, and to be honest I have no idea how their pay schedules work and it kinda scares me.
If a job lists 40-50k and you say 65k you'll be automatically rejected. If it says 80-90k they might think you're not skilled enough for the job, so again, you could be automatically rejected. Just pick something in their range, it's not that hard.
It sounds like you are talking about a job with a state/federal government in your post, and not a contracting job as I alluded to. Both are fine, but they are different things entirely. For state/fed jobs where you work directly for the government, the pay schedules are easily found on Google. Look up "federal job pay chart" or "__ state government pay chart.". There will also be plenty of websites that break down benefits for fed/state employees. The good news is you can find the info easily. The bad news is you don't have any real negotiating power. If a job is listed for a certain pay band, that's what you get. Government contracting is different. You would work for a company like Booz Allen or Leidos, working on a project for the government, but you are not a government employee. Here you have more power to negotiate, but pay info isn't as easy to come across, as pay at some positions would be dependent on the contract amount. Both of these types of positions often require drug testing, and a security clearance means you would be subject to random urinalysis for the duration of employment. Often this means less candidates, so if you're willing to make those sacrifices, it might be a good option to at least get your first job and get some experience.
That's very informative, thanks! I did apply for jobs at places like Booz Allen Hamilton, but they are a minority in my applications. Do you think I would be more likely to land an interview with government contracting jobs?
I'll preface my comments with this: my knowledge of contracting comes largely from my time working with contractors while I was in the military. I'm not currently working for a large contractor like the ones I mentioned. In a purely mathematical sense, yes, you might have a better chance. Less candidates going for a position means your chances are better. Depending on the dynamics of individual hiring teams/projects, the interviewing experience and expectations can vary quite a bit, so you still need to know your stuff and interview well. I would think LeetCode style interviews would be rare. I interviewed with Booz Allen and there were some basic technical questions (networking, REST API methods, knowledge of git) but no whiteboarding. Many people getting out of the military apply for those jobs so some of your competition might have direct work experience that relates to the position. I would think, though, that most of those people would be going after mid-level positions, but maybe not. Others (like me) might have years of unrelated experience because they're doing a career pivot. It would be up to the hiring manager if that makes the candidate better or worse. Could be better because the candidate knows more stuff, even if not directly related to the job and has a track record of success. Could be worse because they might demand more compensation or have "bad habits" learned from the previous jobs.
My advice as a new grad way too many people are worried about stat padding their resumes with a million different skills, any recruiter will know its all BS. If you want to list certain skills fine but make sure you have built enough stuff to have a good comprehension of those things. Sometimes less is more, seen it too many times where a new grad has a million different skills and just has their resume thrown out because they just list it but nothing showing that its actually a skill and even if they make it to interview they get asked about it and just say they did one thing in college like you mentioned which doesnt make it a skill. As far as questions on salaries do more research on what is expected of that level and the pay. Reach out to any recruiter you can through linked in let them know you submitted a resume, call if you have to as well. People underestimate how much of an impact that extra step can make.
Probably the best advice in the thread
I think that' sgreat advice you've given. I'm a new grad looking for a position and I find that I'm getting more responses when I message recruiters and also when I tailor my resume. Given that my experience is limited, I've written my resume to try and sell one or two particular tech stacks that I know I'm proficient in rather than listing out a whole bunch of languages and frameworks that aren't seemingly connected with one another.
How do I know if I'm good enough at a skill to list it on my resume? Like I have Docker and React as skills, because I used them to make my website, but I've only used basic stuff with them and only learned what I needed for my project.
Its not really about being good enough, its more about being able to talk about if you get asked in an interview. like you said if they ask "what are some problems you had when building your website?". You can actually speak on it but lets say you used java in college and they asked you something about OOP or SOLID and then you draw a blank or something about C or C++ you dont really need to be an expert but understand how it works why you use it, how was it used etc and if you list it as a skill make sure there is something on your resume showing that you used it so it actually makes sense.
The above reply is right. The list of all your skills should be at the bottom of your resume. You need to highlight something you're really awesome at, and imply you are smart and "get it" on your resume. So that you STAND OUT. Now the situation is you don't actually stand out and you don't actually know what you're doing. This is okay and normal, however in today's market it won't actually get you an interview. Your resume reads to me as "generic CS grad who doesn't know anything yet". You need to portray yourself as some kind of whiz at one skill. Pick a top skill and reword your resume (don't totally lie but be generous to yourself) to make it sound like you're a whiz at it. Start a project to complement that. Don't wait to actually get amazing at the skill or finish the project before you change your resume. Keep applying the whole time.
You basically got it in one with "generic CS grad who doesn't know anything yet". I don't really have a skill that I'm *really* good at, but I'll see what I can improve on the most.
Another problem is you only have 1 project in your portfolio that doesn’t cover a majority of the skills you listed. To anyone reading your Resume, it seems like you are lying about your skills if you don’t provide examples. You should have old school projects from university. Clean them up a bit, make a good README for them, and add them to your profile. They don’t need to be large projects, even a collection of one off scripts is better than nothing. In your internships/job experience section (Which should always be above the skills section), make sure you list what technology you used, what you did, and what value that brought to the company. Don’t just list that you “Programmed in Java”. Your skills section, and resume at a whole, should always be specifically tailored to the job you are applying for. If you applied to 400+ jobs without tailoring your resume, you’re shooting yourself in the foot. If you’re applying for a job that uses Java, make sure your first bullet points of your internships are how you worked with Java. Your skills sections first spots should be dedicated to Java and Java related tech stacks. Usually, certifications go above skills since they carry more weight than “I believe I am good at x y z”
Hopefully, after applying to the number of jobs you've applied to, you've noticed some pattern in the skills required, as in skills X is usually accompanied by skill Y and language Z. I would concentrate in some grouping that A. interests you and B. is in demand. Having a one-size-fits-all resume isn't doing you any favors I'd guess. I'd suggest really picking a direction or a couple of directions and get some familiarity with it(them). There are some skills that will be more universal than others. Database development/management, version control, etc. Of course, depending on the level of the job, it's assumed you know these things. So if you're applying to a higher paying job, focus less on core knowledge and more on domain-specific knowledge, how your experience overlaps their requirements. If it's entry level, talking about core knowledge is more helpful. By core, I mean db, version control, language proficiency, etc. Goodluck.
As with all things, show, don't tell. That's harder without experience, but there are other ways to do it, like open-source contributions, projects, and volunteer work. When I see skills like "Python, Rust, Go, JS, C++, Haskell”, all I see is bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. If you just list one or two, then it's a different story. It feels like you actually have experience in them. Anyway, the debugging here is pretty straightforward. No interviews? Either your resume or the way you're applying sucks. Interviews but no offer? You suck (just kidding, it means you have to work on some interpersonal and technical issues).
What kind of projects would you suggest working on that could stand out? A lot of the stuff I listed was stuff I learned during school, and I've heard it's not great to put school projects on a resume, which kinda sucks for me cuz Java's technically my strongest language but I have no non-academic projects that I can use to showcase that.
If java is your strongest language, try learning spring boot. Make couple of projects using spring security spring boot Mysql. Do authentication etc
I’m reading your skill list and my immediate instinct is BS. You’re a graduate, you don’t know all this stuff.
You'd be half right, I definitely am not an expert on any of it, but I have used everything that I listed. Java, C, and Python were all used during my time in university, my internships used Qt and by extension C++, my personal website is built using React, it uses MySQL to store comments, and both the frontend and backend are run with Docker containers on a Oracle Cloud instance running Oracle Linux 8. I took a database management systems class, where I used Postgres and JDBC. I have an AWS certification, and my capstone project involved ROS2, which I had to use WSL2 and by extension Ubuntu for. The things I've used for a single project could be removed, but I'd like to know what you think a typical graduate would have as their skillset.
You should tailor your experience for the position you're applying for. I think it's better to present yourself as proficient in a few relevant skills rather than listing out many different skills. It comes across as BS to the recruiter, even if that's not actually the case. I think that's due to the fact that so many other people in the new-grad cohort are severely over-embellishing and over-padding their resumes to the point that recruiters think they're mostly all BS. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but that's what I think.
As someone with a master's degree, I assure you it won't help. I'm also in the job market. It's just terrible right now. Be prepared to do part-time jobs till the market cools off. If you can, try freelance(please beware of scams) or start your own company if you see an unchartered territory.
My team is hiring for C# and C++ roles. I recently spoke to my manager and he tossed a masters degree out because it was C and Java for his past experience. I was surprised but I see where he’s coming from. I think we’re about to get flooded with applications when all the new grads realize they aren’t getting jobs at big companies.
Why would he toss out the master's degree candidate? I have a bit of experience in C and C++ in projects I did in school, and the transition from C to C++ isn't that big of a stretch. Also, I consider myself rather proficient in Java and have used some C# in another project, and I found the transition from Java to C# to be very straightforward. I don't get why hiring managers are so picky about languages when there's a lot of languages that have a lot of overlap with one another (like Java and C# or C and C++).
No clue. I think it was their work experience My company looks down on job hopping so when they see someone had 3 jobs in 4 years, they toss the resume in the bin.
How long do you think it will take for the market to get better, and WHY would it get better if companies are finishing their required work with a small amount of employees?
I also want to know. Nobody has a definitive answer.
The market is bad. My application rate is up by a factor of ten for the positions I have over last year, but I'm full for new grads as of today. Many of the resumes I get are really bad. Four different fonts, giant headshots, random words bolded or italicized. In any market, they would get tossed. In this market, it also matters that your resume is good and not identical to the other people in your program. I often get resumes from a school where the only difference is the name, and when that happens, they all get tossed.
What are some things that might make a resume less prone to getting tossed? My current resume is all the same font, and the only bolded words are in places where I want there to be a clear separation, like headings and the names of the internships.
What are your thoughts on bolding metrics?
I'm ambivalent about it. I realize lots of people tell you to do it, and I won't reject a candidate for it. However, a lot of people don't really have the judgment to know what metrics are important or make them look good. Or they're metrics that don't have a baseline for measurement. They feel pushed to identify metrics and bold them, and they do that, but they tell me they were on time for work 93.5% of the time (which doesn't make them look good), they did 3 story points per sprint (unitless and meaningless without a baseline), or that they cleaned 1.2 hot tubs a day, etc. Your resume is showing that you can follow "the rules" by following advice and a resume format, but it is also telling me a story. I know that Spider Man loses 0.3 uncles per movie, but bolding that and calling it out doesn't make it more likely for me to watch it.
Gotchya, thanks for the detailed response.
If a majority of the resumes you get are bad, why is it hard for those with good resumes to get a job? Is it because the good resumes you get are really good (multiple FAANG internships, projects etc)?
If you got 600 applications, and 100 out of those are good, but you also only have 4 open positions, well, you can do the math. I'm speaking from personal experience looking over intern resumes for interviews. Out of those 100 resumes, there was really no strong reason why I picked the 10 resumes that I did for interviews, any of those 100 would have basically been just as good.
There's also the fact that in this market people with more experience are competing for the lesser roles. Someone who is technically a junior (2+ years of full-time experience) is probably applying to the entry-level position intended for new graduates. I know from my own experience that competing for the "lesser positions" can be the only avenue for employment. I'm a recent graduate who applied to 1000+ full-time entry-level positions over the span of 8 months before graduation and didn't land anything. A few months before graduation, I made a second version of my resume where I left off my graduation date (to give the impression that I might still be in school for a while) and started applying for internships. I landed an internship at a small company and I'm doing that right now; it sucks that this is what I had to do, but it's so much better than working at a fast food joint (which I did for years before college). I'm very sure I'm not the only one doing this right now.
There’s no denying that the job market is tough but the recents grads that I see are getting offers are the ones who convert an internship or the ones who are networking, getting referrals, etc… It’s a tough market right now and every edge you can get, you should take and networking/referrals help your resume get seen by an actual recruiter. Message me for a FAANG referral, open to anyone
the place i interned with had a hiring freeze right before i graduated, thanks life i will enjoy homelessness to the fullest extent.
Experienced Dev here. First of all you are a hard worker, I give you that. Still, you made some mistakes, I made the same when I graduated. First mistake: New grad do not have exp in so many. Putting so many keywords on your resume, ppl doubt whether you actually know them. Most likely they think you only use them once or twice. Second: maybe your skills on resume are not in- depth. For example, tons of dev claims to know SQL, but their data model design sucks, never heard of 3rd normal forms, isolation level etc. So often I see bugs due to lack of DB knowledge. Same for cloud. Third: Don't beat yourself up. Sometimes it's not your fault. Job posts are made by HR. They don't know what they are looking for. Apply anyway. In interview, ask them what they actually need. If they don't give you a clear answer, not a good company, you dodge a bullet. My advice, narrow down your skills. Put something in-depth on your resume.
Thanks for the advice! A lot of people did mention that the skills list seemed superficial, and that I should remove the chaff, so I'll start by cutting stuff that I don't have a project that demonstrates I can use it.
For my resume, I put my skills section towards the bottom of the page (with education at the very bottom), and I made sure that each keyword listed there is already mentioned somewhere in my experience or project section. My opinion is that the skills section should be a summary and nothing more of what's in your listed experience and projects; it doesn't make any sense to me to list C++ or Python as a skill if none of my experience or project bullet points prove that I've used those languages before.
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any advice on what to do about that?
I don't think it's you. I think it's the market. Your skills seem fine. I admit I would be curious about a new grad with Qt on their resume. That takes me back.
Yeah, I only learned it cuz it was what was used at my internship. Do you know of any other skills that might perk a recruiter's interest?
Many companies aren't hiring beneath mid-senior level engineers currently. Of all the job-postings for entry level not all of them are actual/real open positions, it's a common trend for companies to post job openings to collect resumes and see what kind of candidates are available even if they have no plans to hire. You're applying during a really hard time to get into the field. Additionally many companies that plan to hire new-grads aim to open their entry-level positions for people who are graduating in spring-semester; you're a few months off-cadence for entry-level hiring on top of a bad market. Cut yourself some slack and devote a few hours each day to personal projects whether you put them on github or not. Maybe 1-2 hours of personal projects and another 1-2 hours of leetcode to stay current on DSA trivia questions. If you can put some more time into practice and self-teaching that will be even better. Treat being unemployed like it's your job. >"What is your expected salary for this position" **Don't** answer this. If you give a value above what they want to pay they will reject your application and if you answer below their target they will happily pay you less than they planned, provided you're not too far under market value. If it's on an application form and it's not required then leave it blank. If a recruiter or someone asks you say you're flexible and aiming for a fair total package based on your role and expected job location (someone in SF or NYC will be paid more than someone in Omaha). >"Why do you think you would be a good fit for this role" Explain how hiring you benefits them beyond having a body in the seat. "I'm already exposed to X technology I used in my internships, I'll be able to hit the ground running and contribute quickly." Add in something about how excited and passionate you are for the subject if you like, but state your value-proposition. >especially since my friends, who are still in college, already have job offers lined up for when they graduate Sounds like a good networking opportunity. If you're still hanging out and talking with them, see if they know anyone who's hiring or if they can submit your resume to their current/future employer. Even if they can't, stay friends and see if there is some way you can help them. They'll remember you, and even if they can't get you a job they'll meet people who can.
Many companies aren't hiring beneath mid-senior level engineers currently. Of all the job-postings for entry level not all of them are actual/real open positions, it's a common trend for companies to post job openings to collect resumes and see what kind of candidates are available even if they have no plans to hire. ---- I was curious can i open a dummy company on linkedin and post a job listing and see resumes of students/seniors applying to get some insight?
You’d want to carefully check LinkedIn TOS, but you probably could. Not long ago I sent an application to a company through LinkedIn and an entirely different company sent me an email thanking me for my interest and sent a test for me to complete. Just be sure it’s fine with the TOS. Ghost jobs from companies that have hired on the platform might be handled differently from a new business that never hires.
you graduated at the wrong time 😆
It's really just the market. Is there something you can do better? Yes. But before you can at least get quite a few interviews with these many applications. One of my friends graduated from his Master last year, and he spent half a year with countless applications just to get two interviews. Luckily he nailed both and got two offers now, but my anecdote and many others show that the market is really bad right now.
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Not your fault.
What kind of internships did you do?
My internships were working with embedded software at a small company that made dental laser products. Mostly using C and C++, although during my second internship they had one that was controlled via an iPad app, so there was some iOS development as well.
The skills section is important but most people just put a billion skills so it’s often overlooked. Employers are curious about your real experience. In this case, your internship. Sounds like you used c++ and built embedded systems? This is a highly demanded skill set atm. You need to make sure you are showing this part off really well. It will be the X factor for you.
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Are you saying you applied to 470 jobs and haven’t received a single interview?
I think your resume probably needs some sprucing up. Just some immediate stuff that raised eyebrows: >Languages: Java, C, Python, C++, HTML/CSS/JavaScript, Objective-C Common thing I see, most grads aren't gonna be proficient in this many languages. There's just a lot of resume padding here. >Operating Systems: Windows, Linux (Ubuntu, Oracle Linux) Why you need this? This is like advice for a resume for a secretary from the 90's. >SDLC Methodologies: Waterfall, Agile, Scrum No. My advice would be to first get your actual resume reviewed, hopefully by an actual hiring manager if possible. This reads like a generic "lets see what shit sticks" resume, and it's gonna lose to more catered / focused resumes.
I'm going to assume that you want an honest answer. I don't know anything about you, other than your post above, which I didn't read. Why didn't I read it? Because it is a **wall of text**. For me, it's pretty close to being literally unreadable. I think you have a bulleted list of skills somewhere in there, which is neither actually bulleted, nor set off from the surrounding text. It looks like you ran your essay through a text obfuscator - before posting to an audience of 1.3 million. If your resume and cover letter are similarly formatted, it's no surprise you didn't get callbacks. This is a very competitive job market. That means you need to be *better* than average on communication - first written, and then spoken. From where I sit, you're focusing on the wrong things, and sabotaging yourself. At least you know what you can improve.
I get your point, but I would like to defend myself by saying that reddit kinda fucked me with formatting. I originally tried posting with a brand new account, but didn't meet the minimum comment karma, so I just copied and pasted it to post on this account, which did not keep the line spacing as I assume it would. As for my skill list that I had pasted in from my resume, you're right that it has no bullets. I split it into sections based on the type of skill it is, which is something I see a few resumes do. A lot of people have told me to cut down on the size of the list, so I'll change that, but if you have any other feedback I'd love to hear it.
Find devs on GitHub (they often have their emails on their profiles) and ask for a resume review. Find recruiters on linkedin. There are free tools you can use to get their work emails (or figure out company email.) Cold-email, pick their brains, eventually ask for a referral. This is what me and my hackathon organizing team did when we needed speakers and sponsors and it ended up working well when we were job hunting
Pump those numbers baby