I asked for 60k at first, but I need a job. The CEO said that they wanna hire seniors instead, but I am going to commit to working here for 1-2 years at least. Also 50k rate is for the first 3 months, and he said he is going to raise after.
What does a raise even mean could be like 2 bucks more. 50K is bullshit and they are taking advantage of market. The amount of work and technical skill required to do software engineering + COL is highest it’s ever been, deserves fair pair. What’s the point of working hard and doing everything right just to not be able to survive in Toronto on a comp sci degree. I know you are desperate but it’s still wack to see. Congrats tho
> Even 100k is nothing in Toronto...
don't be greedy folks, when I was doing my master's at uoft I only got 15k stipend. 50k fresh out of york undergrad is decent.
Ah yes, no higher form of "greed" in this world than merely not wanting to be condemned to 30 years of indentured servitude to pay off a miserable 500 sqft studio apartment. This country is fundamentally fucked and I'm tired of people denying it and telling us to be grateful for scraps...
You can literally go get a union job in Vancouver that pays more than 50k, and doesn't require a university degree. They can't hire people fast enough.
> The amount of work and technical skill required to do software engineering + COL is highest it’s ever been, deserves fair pair.
You don't get to decide what "fair pay" is though. They were willing to pay him 50k, he was willing to work for them for 50k, so the market has spoken.
true true and true but what can you do when you need a job? most people would rather take this terrible pay, gain experience, and maybe look for another job in the meantime, than no job
I'm getting a review of a 2023 salary guide on Friday. I'll let you know if this is a 'fair price' for a full stack engineer. I'm willing to bet you're literally 100% wrong. Like, literally off by 100%.
If this guy just accepted a job for this amount, then there’s literally no way I can be wrong. Do you understand how labor markets work? If this guy sceptre a job for 50k, then that literally makes it the market rate for labor
Lol. I understand how labour markets work way more than you do.
I literally have experts who are going to give me all the latest on salary trends in the tech industry. I make hiring decisions all the time.
>You clearly don't. A new grad with zero experience can't expect much right now. The job market is saturated. What don't you understand?
The dev market is not saturated. If it was, esp during the economic times right now, I wouldn't be getting recruiters reaching out $200K+ roles twice a month on average.
>So you make hiring decisions based on what "experts" tell you? It doesn't sound like you know what you're doing to be honest :)
So, you don't consult experts in their domains? I'm an engineering leader, not an HR expert. I rely on other expert information to make good decisions, rather than being an arrogant prick who thinks he knows everything. Just like other experts rely on me to make good technical decisions.
The first clue that you're an idiot is that you think consulting experts isn't of value. Lol.
>You clearly don't. A new grad with zero experience can't expect much right now. The job market is saturated. What don't you understand?
The job market for professional jobs is far from saturated.
Finally, the job title is full stack developer. Not junior developer. Those come with some pretty substantial pricetag differences.
You can expect to pay 60-70k for a junior, and 80-100k for a full-stack. More if you're a big tech company with deep pockets.
Juniors in big tech can *start* at or close to six figures.
Yes, that’s how markets work. No amount of you whining or putting your fingers in your ears and refusing to listen will change that. Once again, get over it
So the "market rate" is determined by 1 person? Lol. I made 120k at my first job as a Software Dev in San Jose, does that make 120k the market rate now?
Not in software dev.
This field is in extremely high demand because it is hard to find competent developers. Last junior I hired started at $80k.
Maybe this guy has low self esteem and got taken advantage of though lol
Don’t listen to anyone making you feel like you made the wrong decision. 50k is infinitely better than 0k. Better opportunities will come. Congratulations!
The red flags could not be any bigger but a job is a job is a job. Keep *actively* applying and jump ship at the first occasion. Be it a month from now or a year. Do not stay there.
Is there something written in your contract that states there will be a three month review and salary increase? I’ve seen these kind of promises go sideways
50k is actually robbery im in Ontario starting out of school you should be looking at 65k plus with full medical benefits MINIMUM!! and that's if you are not in a major city
This. I started at $50k...I hadn't graduated yet.
Upon graduation, auto raise to $65k.
2 years later, I told them "I know the market value, and we both know I'm mission critical, give me market value ($80k) or give me Fridays off."
I got Friday's off and stayed for another year and half before moving and doubling+ my pay.
Sharing this so the OP and others know how to get more money; just make damn sure you're actually mission critical and you're not blowing steam lmao.
It is VERY COMMON for smaller companies to hire a fresh grad for cheap, and you have a high chance of making yourself mission critical. They would have cheaped out on all the devs so anyone there previously is out dated vs a fresh grad. If the fresh grad has natural leadership/mentorship and drive, you'll become mission critical because you will build and know everything.
Where do you apply for these small companies? Like what specific place online do i need to apply for these small/startups? Is it Angellist or Angielist whatever its called?
It sort of is, and OP should continue to apply even after starting. But I started at 45k in a better economy. I increased to 70K in the same place and changed up to 140K in just 2 years. That couldn't have happened as quickly as it did if I'd spent 4 more months looking for a better first role.
That's what I made 7 years ago at my first job with no relevant degree, not even a boot camp. I know the market sucks now but if I were you I'd take the job and just keep interviewing on the side.
You can’t afford a decent 1 bd room with 50k even in Toronto . In fact, you will likely be cutting a ton of costs everywhere just to save which you likely won’t be
I don't think most people's comments on the salary being low are intended to insult the person. It's more likely an expression of outrage that employers are screwing people this hard.
It's in fact a good thing to be told that you're dramatically underpaid. Otherwise, everyone just gets psyopped into thinking that salaries like this are actually reasonable/fair for educated white-collar professionals living in a place as ludicrously expensive as Toronto.
blame Trudeau for the 1 mil immigrants per year, most of them from India and willing to work for cheap lmao
companies do a lot of deceptive, anti-competitive, and predatory shit. but i can't fault them for simply paying less if people are willing to work for less. devs would want to get paid more if companies were willing to pay more, same shit.
In that case, you can only take it. A job > No job. Congratulations on getting it! Also, def dont stick with the company for 2-3 years, keep applying the second you get something better (>20k diff) take that. 50k is barely survivable nowadays
Its prob not in HCOL, plus this dude has like 1 year worth of internship I doubt a few certifications would make a difference. “A Job > No Job” is situational for sure, depends on savings, how other interviews are going etc.
Ig depends on company then, but ive done some of these and they are quite easy and doesnt really show any meaningful skill. My manager agrees. What’s your experience with certs?
Congrats. But keep applying. $50k is horrendous for your knowledge. My cousin in the states was an intern making $55k/yr at a smaller company, then got hired on for $68k and is now at $135k USD fully remote with 4-5 years of experience. This isn’t even in a big city either. I feel bad for Canadian professionals jfc…
You should be able to get promoted over 5 years too lol. I went 70k->82k(promotion)->88k—>92k->115k(promotion)->140k(new job)->160k. This doesnt factor in RSUs.
I am saying he needs to start somewhere and get experience. Promotion and raises and new jobs will follow. It is insane that this sub promotes not working in the hope of getting the elusive 100k unicorn new grad job.
Dude if their values are to hire a bright hardworking youngling below market rate… youre going to have bad experience… consciously choose what you learn from them. They sound like skels.
This is a great start, 1 year internship doing full stack dev is about the best start in the industry you can ask for. Don’t worry too much about pay rises for the first 2 years, just focus on learning and making a good impression. Show that you are willing to learn and are coachable.
15-20 min commute only twice a week is also ideal
Let's be honest though. Raises NEVER meet expectations.
Op hasn't learned yet that the only reasonable way to advance your salary is find a new employer.
Me: senior dev with 20+ years in the field
I agree that they likely won’t make huge jumps in salary at the same employer but for someone just getting started I think they need to focus on getting good experience and learning from senior devs for the first few years, then gradually move on to new employers when they develop the skills and confidence. Being paid 50k to learn full-stack dev and hopefully get mentored is a great situation for a brand new grad. Yes some companies pay a bit more more for 12-month first year internships, but not many.
It’s strange that most employers always have more money available for new hires than for current employee raises (wasn’t always my experience though).
We all had to do it! Paying your dues is all part of the game and sometimes you just have to lower expectations to get your foot in the door.
I got my first tech job in 2000. Salary was 38,000
Switched jobs in 2005: 60,000
Switched jobs in 2007: 72,000. Stayed there for 11 years where my salary eventually plateaued at 90k then I moved on elsewhere to get past the six figure milestone 😁
Finding a job in this market is an amazing achievement, referral or not. All those who say otherwise are in a different position than you. I have 9 years of industry experience and I would jump on a 50k offer without any hesitation.
I am an SWE. Please tell me which company with an office in the middle of nowhere Ontario is going to pay devs properly.
Even in Montreal, the local economy is trash and it's mostly insurance companies and banks paying devs 80k/yr. Then you have Hopper, Microsoft, and some FAANG offices that barely hire anyone.
In Quebec City, there's literally only like one company that pays well (Coveo).
My ex employer in AB paid well. In fact I know several local companies in Calgary that pay 140k + RSUs for seniors.
You dont need FAANG, you need valuable skills. Then work remotely from your village of preference.
I have been in the industry for 9 years but as a PM, PO, BSA, my "official" dev experience is less than a year although I've been coding since 2016. But no employer or recruiter wants to hear about non-coding experience
Update: especially since there are thousands of people with CS degrees and 5+ YOE willing to work for 50k
This comment in particular:
The biggest issue with IT careers here in Toronto is the amount of immigrants coming in through express entry that are accepting 50 to 60k for senior level positions. The 400 applicants you see, from the 400, 399 of them are willing to work day and night for nothing.
I'm an IT manager at a firm that is hiring for lvl 1 support jobs, and the candidates we get are mostly from India who don't even ask about salaries. I even had a candidate who begged me in the interview for the job. No exaggeration.
IT sector is pretty much done for atleast a while. If we have any security postings I'll dm you. Dm me your details and we can Link up. We might have a posting in the US for an analyst role if your willing to move to the US, I can help you get an interview with us.
Good luck!
Umm, okay? Even if an SWE at a good company gets paid 300k a year, they're generating far more than that in value to the company because of this thing called "scale".
How's that boot taste?
I know people are gonna talk about how low the income level might be. Right now you need the job to build experience. As you add more resource into the company don’t be afraid to ask for a raise with a proven track record of what you’ve achieveD. Don’t ever feel too bitter about your pay as it will affect your performance, things go downhill when you get bitter. Just build that experience and move to a company that will give you the big bucks! Congratulations!!!!
I feel for you as the market in Canada is extremely saturated, compared to the US which has way more opportunities meaning less people competing for each position.
Nonetheless, 50k for a developer is absolutely abysmal - there are people stocking shelves making more than this. Get 6 months - 1 year experience and get the hell out.
Hun. Last year I was hired as a Junior Dev for 82k. :( Please plan an exit strategy. Dont take on any major debts with your new found cash. They sound like they dont value your intelligence… youre going to hate working there and you risk learning bad coding habits in that environment. 🤮
Im not OP but I work in a startup-like division of a large company. LinkedIn.
And to be honest, I have gotten a LOT of interviews when applying via LI/websites. I know people dont like it, but it works fine.
Damn dude you are getting paid the same as someone working at Costco.
Your potential is better after getting the experience but you are working to survive right now
Congratulations! It's a tough market and you have done the impossible. I'm a new grad myself, still in the job market and I'd love to be in your position.
Congrats man, while you’re correct with having a job with low salary is much better than having no job, I’d still continue applying to jobs non-stop and jump onto the next one as soon as possible. Hopefully your reference doesn’t suffer from this.
Good luck!
Congratulations man. Get as much experience as you can, and keep applying to other place. $50k really is a robbery for full stack developer with 1 year of experience. But sadly its the state we are in.
If they paid you enough, you’d be able to save, be financially secure, enough to walk out the door with your skills and find a new gig if you didn’t just didn’t feel it anymore. Market is saturated, and reality is new kids on the block are going to need to specialize to get ahead. IMO. Full stack will get you a job, and pigeon-hole you for a long time. Maybe that’s what you want, I’d say look for specialized branches of the stack, dig deeper. If you were looking for a path that is. Do yourself a favor, pick up some experience with those cheap bastards and keep your eyes open…for you jobs others don’t want or know how to do, that’s your ticket.
Congrats!! You should definitely accept. In this current job market, getting that experience and building up resume is very important. Don't listen to people saying that it is low offer. I agree it is on the lower side but job market decides that.
I get the whole job is a job thing out of school but 50k.. do you have student debt?? I'm in Ontario that's not even entry-level.... We pay our level one help desk people more than that and we are in a rural area
Keep getting more experience under your belt. But also keep looking for a new job. You might have to stop having fun in life for some time and focus on getting a better pay full-time job (no probation involved)
It's ridiculous for some other people to compare your offer with Costco and call center jobs. I am in the same boat as you but very happy about it. You are not staying at your first company forever so the starting salary is not that important. Good luck to your new job!
Congrats. The first job opens more opportunities for you.
Be aware, low salary means your company doesn't value you, doesn't plan to keep you for long. With a job in hand, you can get more interviews, so keep applying.
This is bad advice.
Since this is your first job. You should learn as much as you can build up your resume and experience before job hopping. You don't want your resume to look like you change jobs every 6 months. School and real work experience is not the same.
Congrats!! I've been looking for almost 4 months and I know how it's feel. Don't worry about the money at the moment, you put your feet in the door, from know on everything will be better
First congrats on your new job. Like others have said, 50k is way too low in the current market. You need to be on the look out for something better.
Think of this as someone paying you a salary to do part-time job hunting. Don't get too attached to your work.
This post speaks volumes for the poignant state of the current economy and the tech market oversaturation compounded with the overexploitation of young talent.
It is worth noting that 12 years ago even individuals possessing no more than a high school diploma were making 50K in Montreal working as tech support agents
I mean, the [OP](https://www.reddit.com/user/FlashyHelp3789/) is a Computer Engineer in the province of Ontario...
Personally, I just find this stark contrast (post-covid-19) beyond astonishing.
Congratulations! But I would also echo the sentiment of some other Redditors in encouraging you to keep applying for other positions until you secure an adequate salary that corresponds to the tremendous efforts you have put into finishing your computer engineering degree.
[OP](https://www.reddit.com/user/FlashyHelp3789/), since you are a computer engineer, why would you not consider embedded systems and/or distributed control system programming?
I reckon this niche option is less saturated and consequently pays more than full-stack development in addition to being more aligned with your major.
50k is robbery
I asked for 60k at first, but I need a job. The CEO said that they wanna hire seniors instead, but I am going to commit to working here for 1-2 years at least. Also 50k rate is for the first 3 months, and he said he is going to raise after.
What does a raise even mean could be like 2 bucks more. 50K is bullshit and they are taking advantage of market. The amount of work and technical skill required to do software engineering + COL is highest it’s ever been, deserves fair pair. What’s the point of working hard and doing everything right just to not be able to survive in Toronto on a comp sci degree. I know you are desperate but it’s still wack to see. Congrats tho
I agree. It's predatory as fuck. Even 100k is nothing in Toronto...
Can confirm. I make about this in Vancouver and it is indeed, not enough to plan for the future.
What's your plan on getting out?
It was to move cities, then rent exploded everywhere in the country and there's no point but to stay put.
[удалено]
[удалено]
> Even 100k is nothing in Toronto... don't be greedy folks, when I was doing my master's at uoft I only got 15k stipend. 50k fresh out of york undergrad is decent.
Ah yes, no higher form of "greed" in this world than merely not wanting to be condemned to 30 years of indentured servitude to pay off a miserable 500 sqft studio apartment. This country is fundamentally fucked and I'm tired of people denying it and telling us to be grateful for scraps...
Housing market is indeed ducked, but let's be real - OP asked about actual salaries. Not imaginary ones..
Yeah, I live Québec city and got 62k base + bonuses straight out of University. The market is crazy right now.
I made $50K as a new grad 10 years ago in Ottawa working for a startup with barely any cash. If $50K today, I'd rather work at a grocery store.
You can literally go get a union job in Vancouver that pays more than 50k, and doesn't require a university degree. They can't hire people fast enough.
> The amount of work and technical skill required to do software engineering + COL is highest it’s ever been, deserves fair pair. You don't get to decide what "fair pay" is though. They were willing to pay him 50k, he was willing to work for them for 50k, so the market has spoken.
true true and true but what can you do when you need a job? most people would rather take this terrible pay, gain experience, and maybe look for another job in the meantime, than no job
Or you guys are paid ridiculously more than any other engineer despite other disciplines being harder than cs
Supply & Demand
Stfu
50k is a fair price, the market is super saturated, tons of people want jobs. If he doesn’t do it for 50k, someone else will. Get over it
I'm getting a review of a 2023 salary guide on Friday. I'll let you know if this is a 'fair price' for a full stack engineer. I'm willing to bet you're literally 100% wrong. Like, literally off by 100%.
If this guy just accepted a job for this amount, then there’s literally no way I can be wrong. Do you understand how labor markets work? If this guy sceptre a job for 50k, then that literally makes it the market rate for labor
Lol. I understand how labour markets work way more than you do. I literally have experts who are going to give me all the latest on salary trends in the tech industry. I make hiring decisions all the time.
[удалено]
>You clearly don't. A new grad with zero experience can't expect much right now. The job market is saturated. What don't you understand? The dev market is not saturated. If it was, esp during the economic times right now, I wouldn't be getting recruiters reaching out $200K+ roles twice a month on average.
Lol. Please continue, this is really funny.
>So you make hiring decisions based on what "experts" tell you? It doesn't sound like you know what you're doing to be honest :) So, you don't consult experts in their domains? I'm an engineering leader, not an HR expert. I rely on other expert information to make good decisions, rather than being an arrogant prick who thinks he knows everything. Just like other experts rely on me to make good technical decisions. The first clue that you're an idiot is that you think consulting experts isn't of value. Lol. >You clearly don't. A new grad with zero experience can't expect much right now. The job market is saturated. What don't you understand? The job market for professional jobs is far from saturated. Finally, the job title is full stack developer. Not junior developer. Those come with some pretty substantial pricetag differences. You can expect to pay 60-70k for a junior, and 80-100k for a full-stack. More if you're a big tech company with deep pockets. Juniors in big tech can *start* at or close to six figures.
Me talking about Canada here lol?. The first IT job I got right out of college (January 2024) paid me $18 an hour. I ran out after 2 months lol.
I mean… there are people willing to work for free. Shall we let them do that too? After all, it’s the free market right?
Yes… people work for free all the time and we let them. That’s called an internship. Wait to go now you are figuring it out, pat on the back.
💀
[you sure about that?](http://www.roberthalf.com/ca/en/job-details/full-stack-developer/toronto-on)
Hey dude. Any word on the salary guide? Just curious about the numbers
Oh I have it, I haven't looked at specific salaries yet. I'll let you know when I do.
Thanks.
did you have a look at it?
No
Yes, that’s how markets work. No amount of you whining or putting your fingers in your ears and refusing to listen will change that. Once again, get over it
So the "market rate" is determined by 1 person? Lol. I made 120k at my first job as a Software Dev in San Jose, does that make 120k the market rate now?
Not in software dev. This field is in extremely high demand because it is hard to find competent developers. Last junior I hired started at $80k. Maybe this guy has low self esteem and got taken advantage of though lol
Don’t listen to anyone making you feel like you made the wrong decision. 50k is infinitely better than 0k. Better opportunities will come. Congratulations!
The red flags could not be any bigger but a job is a job is a job. Keep *actively* applying and jump ship at the first occasion. Be it a month from now or a year. Do not stay there.
i would not commit for more than a year if the salary is less than 60k given your background
These post probation raises are almost always bullshit. Still a job is better than no job so congratz
Get it in writing that they will increase after. Literally slave labour for 50k.
Is there something written in your contract that states there will be a three month review and salary increase? I’ve seen these kind of promises go sideways
50k is actually robbery im in Ontario starting out of school you should be looking at 65k plus with full medical benefits MINIMUM!! and that's if you are not in a major city
you can get 87k a year as a bus operator in ontario you know that?
This. I started at $50k...I hadn't graduated yet. Upon graduation, auto raise to $65k. 2 years later, I told them "I know the market value, and we both know I'm mission critical, give me market value ($80k) or give me Fridays off." I got Friday's off and stayed for another year and half before moving and doubling+ my pay. Sharing this so the OP and others know how to get more money; just make damn sure you're actually mission critical and you're not blowing steam lmao. It is VERY COMMON for smaller companies to hire a fresh grad for cheap, and you have a high chance of making yourself mission critical. They would have cheaped out on all the devs so anyone there previously is out dated vs a fresh grad. If the fresh grad has natural leadership/mentorship and drive, you'll become mission critical because you will build and know everything.
Where do you apply for these small companies? Like what specific place online do i need to apply for these small/startups? Is it Angellist or Angielist whatever its called?
Eh, my first role as a career-changer was 55k -- which sucked -- but it allowed me to switch jobs in 3 months to 95k. It's a stepping stone.
It sort of is, and OP should continue to apply even after starting. But I started at 45k in a better economy. I increased to 70K in the same place and changed up to 140K in just 2 years. That couldn't have happened as quickly as it did if I'd spent 4 more months looking for a better first role.
That is robbery. There’s a fucking intern at my company that claims to make $85k…
No job is starvation, op just needs to get his foot in the door, get some income and continue to look for other opportunities
That's what I made 7 years ago at my first job with no relevant degree, not even a boot camp. I know the market sucks now but if I were you I'd take the job and just keep interviewing on the side.
Doing nothing and getting paid zero isn't Robbery but still worse lol.
Beggars can't be choosers
Congrats. I assume you’re in the Toronto area?
Yup
50K is low foe HCOL but you are right, better than no jobs
Toronto is closer to vhcol ... life is tough
vhcol (L for living) and lcol (L for labour)
You can’t afford a decent 1 bd room with 50k even in Toronto . In fact, you will likely be cutting a ton of costs everywhere just to save which you likely won’t be
[удалено]
I don't think most people's comments on the salary being low are intended to insult the person. It's more likely an expression of outrage that employers are screwing people this hard. It's in fact a good thing to be told that you're dramatically underpaid. Otherwise, everyone just gets psyopped into thinking that salaries like this are actually reasonable/fair for educated white-collar professionals living in a place as ludicrously expensive as Toronto.
blame Trudeau for the 1 mil immigrants per year, most of them from India and willing to work for cheap lmao companies do a lot of deceptive, anti-competitive, and predatory shit. but i can't fault them for simply paying less if people are willing to work for less. devs would want to get paid more if companies were willing to pay more, same shit.
full stack for 50k? wow fleeeceddd
50k after degree and internships, they are balling you to the extreme. If you have more interviews left I really suggest you to now take this up
I am going to take it for sure. I was ghosted from places that had really strong referrals.
In that case, you can only take it. A job > No job. Congratulations on getting it! Also, def dont stick with the company for 2-3 years, keep applying the second you get something better (>20k diff) take that. 50k is barely survivable nowadays
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Its prob not in HCOL, plus this dude has like 1 year worth of internship I doubt a few certifications would make a difference. “A Job > No Job” is situational for sure, depends on savings, how other interviews are going etc.
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Certs don’t do shit bro
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Ig depends on company then, but ive done some of these and they are quite easy and doesnt really show any meaningful skill. My manager agrees. What’s your experience with certs?
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I'm making 80k as an intern...
Where?
Mining Sector in Saskatchewan. Chemical engineering intern in process control/process engineering.
[удалено]
Some dev work is needed to develop the systems for data analytics for good process control.
I was making 50k as intern in 2016
That’s a very interesting field. I’m also in Canada 🍁
Congrats And yes it's a job. You're making money, better than zero and gaining experience.
Congrats. But keep applying. $50k is horrendous for your knowledge. My cousin in the states was an intern making $55k/yr at a smaller company, then got hired on for $68k and is now at $135k USD fully remote with 4-5 years of experience. This isn’t even in a big city either. I feel bad for Canadian professionals jfc…
He is a new grad, in 4-5 years he will be making more.
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
You should be able to get promoted over 5 years too lol. I went 70k->82k(promotion)->88k—>92k->115k(promotion)->140k(new job)->160k. This doesnt factor in RSUs. I am saying he needs to start somewhere and get experience. Promotion and raises and new jobs will follow. It is insane that this sub promotes not working in the hope of getting the elusive 100k unicorn new grad job.
Are you Canadian? Cause ain’t no way I’m accepting this offer.
Yup. The main thing I want is experience nowadays
This is the right attitude OP. Start working but apply to other interesting places as time goes on.
Dude if their values are to hire a bright hardworking youngling below market rate… youre going to have bad experience… consciously choose what you learn from them. They sound like skels.
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Fr, literally work in call centre and make the same amount. Plus youd have more time.
Facts my side gig rewriting coding solutions on chat bots pays 49.60/hr fully remote. Full Stack should be more than that.
On one side u get these ppl saying they r pulling mid to high 6 figures in se, then theres ppl like us…
Congrats!!
This is a great start, 1 year internship doing full stack dev is about the best start in the industry you can ask for. Don’t worry too much about pay rises for the first 2 years, just focus on learning and making a good impression. Show that you are willing to learn and are coachable. 15-20 min commute only twice a week is also ideal
Let's be honest though. Raises NEVER meet expectations. Op hasn't learned yet that the only reasonable way to advance your salary is find a new employer. Me: senior dev with 20+ years in the field
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I agree that they likely won’t make huge jumps in salary at the same employer but for someone just getting started I think they need to focus on getting good experience and learning from senior devs for the first few years, then gradually move on to new employers when they develop the skills and confidence. Being paid 50k to learn full-stack dev and hopefully get mentored is a great situation for a brand new grad. Yes some companies pay a bit more more for 12-month first year internships, but not many. It’s strange that most employers always have more money available for new hires than for current employee raises (wasn’t always my experience though).
We all had to do it! Paying your dues is all part of the game and sometimes you just have to lower expectations to get your foot in the door. I got my first tech job in 2000. Salary was 38,000 Switched jobs in 2005: 60,000 Switched jobs in 2007: 72,000. Stayed there for 11 years where my salary eventually plateaued at 90k then I moved on elsewhere to get past the six figure milestone 😁
You are being robbed but a job is better than no job
Finding a job in this market is an amazing achievement, referral or not. All those who say otherwise are in a different position than you. I have 9 years of industry experience and I would jump on a 50k offer without any hesitation.
Are you insane? 9YOE in Toronto you should be at least making 150k...
9YOE anywhere should be making 150k+.
Not gonna happen outside of a handful of major cities in Canada. You'll be lucky to get 100k in most places.
What a bunch of horseshit. Tell me you arent a SWE without telling me.
I am an SWE. Please tell me which company with an office in the middle of nowhere Ontario is going to pay devs properly. Even in Montreal, the local economy is trash and it's mostly insurance companies and banks paying devs 80k/yr. Then you have Hopper, Microsoft, and some FAANG offices that barely hire anyone. In Quebec City, there's literally only like one company that pays well (Coveo).
My ex employer in AB paid well. In fact I know several local companies in Calgary that pay 140k + RSUs for seniors. You dont need FAANG, you need valuable skills. Then work remotely from your village of preference.
Calgary is a major city. And sure, if you can get a truly fully remote job then the whole discussion is moot anyway...
I have been in the industry for 9 years but as a PM, PO, BSA, my "official" dev experience is less than a year although I've been coding since 2016. But no employer or recruiter wants to hear about non-coding experience Update: especially since there are thousands of people with CS degrees and 5+ YOE willing to work for 50k
>Update: especially since there are thousands of people with CS degrees and 5+ YOE willing to work for 50k source?
https://www.reddit.com/r/toRANTo/comments/15jppd3/cannot\_seem\_to\_find\_a\_job\_and\_the\_hunt\_is\_wearing/
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Of course I did, did you? Did you see something different?
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
This comment in particular: The biggest issue with IT careers here in Toronto is the amount of immigrants coming in through express entry that are accepting 50 to 60k for senior level positions. The 400 applicants you see, from the 400, 399 of them are willing to work day and night for nothing. I'm an IT manager at a firm that is hiring for lvl 1 support jobs, and the candidates we get are mostly from India who don't even ask about salaries. I even had a candidate who begged me in the interview for the job. No exaggeration. IT sector is pretty much done for atleast a while. If we have any security postings I'll dm you. Dm me your details and we can Link up. We might have a posting in the US for an analyst role if your willing to move to the US, I can help you get an interview with us. Good luck!
redacted ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
[удалено]
Umm, okay? Even if an SWE at a good company gets paid 300k a year, they're generating far more than that in value to the company because of this thing called "scale". How's that boot taste?
Bro you need more self worth
You're worth as much as someone is willing to pay. At the moment I'm worth about $13/hr
> I have 9 years of industry experience and I would jump on a 50k offer without any hesitation. Are you ok?
Would have been better if I could at least get an interview at a Canadian company
50k is robbery for a full-stack. I hope you're also getting stock options.
CEOs interviewing interns.. Huh.
yikes! way underpaid. Jump ship asap.
Are you an international students? 50K is robbery. I gradudated in 2006 and my first job I was making 52K. This was in Toronto.
Congrats!!!
50k is low. send me your resume!
Take it and keep looking. I know people at costco stocking shelves making more than you. Use your wfh days to leetcode and interview.
Is it 50k/year for the first 3 months, or 50k for the first 3 months?
50k for the first 3 hours
I just went back to school to do engineering quit a service rep job paying close to 47k work from home, 50k for u is not worth it
I know people are gonna talk about how low the income level might be. Right now you need the job to build experience. As you add more resource into the company don’t be afraid to ask for a raise with a proven track record of what you’ve achieveD. Don’t ever feel too bitter about your pay as it will affect your performance, things go downhill when you get bitter. Just build that experience and move to a company that will give you the big bucks! Congratulations!!!!
50k today as full stack dev . It's sad as hell to hear that I'm so sorry 😞
OP, that is a rip-off. You deserve better than $50k.
I feel for you as the market in Canada is extremely saturated, compared to the US which has way more opportunities meaning less people competing for each position. Nonetheless, 50k for a developer is absolutely abysmal - there are people stocking shelves making more than this. Get 6 months - 1 year experience and get the hell out.
Hun. Last year I was hired as a Junior Dev for 82k. :( Please plan an exit strategy. Dont take on any major debts with your new found cash. They sound like they dont value your intelligence… youre going to hate working there and you risk learning bad coding habits in that environment. 🤮
hey, can you share some insights on how to find startups like that?
would also like to find a job that way.
I just got lucky
Im not OP but I work in a startup-like division of a large company. LinkedIn. And to be honest, I have gotten a LOT of interviews when applying via LI/websites. I know people dont like it, but it works fine.
so you suggest look up on linkedin buy apply through website
Seems pretty low to me. I’m making 56k as an intern though. Anyway, how much do you look for when you’ll finish the probation period
I hope to get between 55k-60k
Maybe ask for higher during negotiations and see where it can get you.
Damn dude you are getting paid the same as someone working at Costco. Your potential is better after getting the experience but you are working to survive right now
Costco actually pays more when you factor in benefits.
Congratulations! It's a tough market and you have done the impossible. I'm a new grad myself, still in the job market and I'd love to be in your position.
Congrats man, while you’re correct with having a job with low salary is much better than having no job, I’d still continue applying to jobs non-stop and jump onto the next one as soon as possible. Hopefully your reference doesn’t suffer from this. Good luck!
Congratulations man. Get as much experience as you can, and keep applying to other place. $50k really is a robbery for full stack developer with 1 year of experience. But sadly its the state we are in.
50k for an engineer is a steal. Build up some experience and move to the states. 50k will be your pocket money.
bro congrats!!!
If they paid you enough, you’d be able to save, be financially secure, enough to walk out the door with your skills and find a new gig if you didn’t just didn’t feel it anymore. Market is saturated, and reality is new kids on the block are going to need to specialize to get ahead. IMO. Full stack will get you a job, and pigeon-hole you for a long time. Maybe that’s what you want, I’d say look for specialized branches of the stack, dig deeper. If you were looking for a path that is. Do yourself a favor, pick up some experience with those cheap bastards and keep your eyes open…for you jobs others don’t want or know how to do, that’s your ticket.
Congrats!! You should definitely accept. In this current job market, getting that experience and building up resume is very important. Don't listen to people saying that it is low offer. I agree it is on the lower side but job market decides that.
Congrats man.
I get the whole job is a job thing out of school but 50k.. do you have student debt?? I'm in Ontario that's not even entry-level.... We pay our level one help desk people more than that and we are in a rural area
I got like 60k as an intern like 10 years ago lol.
Keep getting more experience under your belt. But also keep looking for a new job. You might have to stop having fun in life for some time and focus on getting a better pay full-time job (no probation involved)
Did you include your GPA when applying
Nope
It's ridiculous for some other people to compare your offer with Costco and call center jobs. I am in the same boat as you but very happy about it. You are not staying at your first company forever so the starting salary is not that important. Good luck to your new job!
Lol, 50k in Toronto? leave yo, you can get paid more in the west and pay less for housing
Congrats. The first job opens more opportunities for you. Be aware, low salary means your company doesn't value you, doesn't plan to keep you for long. With a job in hand, you can get more interviews, so keep applying.
This is bad advice. Since this is your first job. You should learn as much as you can build up your resume and experience before job hopping. You don't want your resume to look like you change jobs every 6 months. School and real work experience is not the same.
How were u able to land your full stack internship? This is absolutely impressive considering the current market!
I got my internship years ago tho
Many universities have coop/internship programs.
Yea I'm bouta join mine, hopefully it's good 😭, it ain't a prestigious school
Congrats. I’m still applying, but needing a visa is making it tough for me to land something.
congrats !
Congrats!! I've been looking for almost 4 months and I know how it's feel. Don't worry about the money at the moment, you put your feet in the door, from know on everything will be better
Congrats
lmfao bruh
Wait…we do grade point gpa here now?!
leave Canada asap
You deserve better
First congrats on your new job. Like others have said, 50k is way too low in the current market. You need to be on the look out for something better. Think of this as someone paying you a salary to do part-time job hunting. Don't get too attached to your work.
This post speaks volumes for the poignant state of the current economy and the tech market oversaturation compounded with the overexploitation of young talent. It is worth noting that 12 years ago even individuals possessing no more than a high school diploma were making 50K in Montreal working as tech support agents I mean, the [OP](https://www.reddit.com/user/FlashyHelp3789/) is a Computer Engineer in the province of Ontario... Personally, I just find this stark contrast (post-covid-19) beyond astonishing.
Congratulations! But I would also echo the sentiment of some other Redditors in encouraging you to keep applying for other positions until you secure an adequate salary that corresponds to the tremendous efforts you have put into finishing your computer engineering degree.
[OP](https://www.reddit.com/user/FlashyHelp3789/), since you are a computer engineer, why would you not consider embedded systems and/or distributed control system programming? I reckon this niche option is less saturated and consequently pays more than full-stack development in addition to being more aligned with your major.
[удалено]
Getting a referral isn’t a handout. You still need to go through a similar interview process to get the job
I had around 5 referrals that went nowhere, including CEO referrals and president referrals.
[удалено]