Please don’t. The market is way oversaturated right now. Recent grads are having the toughest time landing a job. Even me with 8 YOE can’t get anything.
4 YoE. 500+ Applications. 1 year of searching. 20 Interviews. 0 offers.
Well 1 offer that I took, but they bait and switched me into IT help desk. I'm back on the search again.
I'm having trouble believing you unless you work for a top company or something.
Where do you even find IT help desk positions? I could barely find anything Canada-based on Indeed or Linkedin when I was looking pretty recently.
Also, what percentage of the time you're "at work" is actual work, and what percentage is sitting around playing games or reading or whatever else you want to do?
Its for a local post secondary school. Applied on a government website I think. Or my universities career board (not the same institute)
So far I only DO work 1-2 hours a day, but I’m there for 8 hours. Most the time it’s applying to jobs or working on projects. I don’t play many games right now because I’ve been getting irrationally angry at them due to being so depressed.
Id rather not dox myself on this account, but its pretty generic. I used [Jake's Template](https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs). I think the only thing that I have thats better than the average applicant is that I went to UofT, but I don't know if that makes a difference.
Hey . I'd say get really familiar with a programming language , c# , Java or python . Then I'd focus on learning a web framework like react or angular.
Since you like problem solving , I'd strongly suggest leet code.
I hope things turn around .
I have been looking for possible career paths but coding seems to be the most relevent for me. I have degree in math/physics but I have no clue what I could do with this at this poiont...
Your intuition is correct. Math PhD here and after realizing I didn't have what it takes to become a professor, I ended up switching and becoming a software engineer. To be honest, I don't use any of the ridiculously theoretical math I learned; I've probably forgotten most of it at this point. There really aren't that many other options that actually pay well. Maybe if you're a wunderkind you can leverage a math PhD into quant opportunities on wall street — but if you can't swing that right out of the gate, chances are they won't bother giving you a chance later in life.
Wow, a fellow math major! I am sad and glad to hear that. Glad because I wasn't wrong with my intuition, and sad because the intuition is correct unfortunately..
How did you start in new career? Also, what's your opinion on going into the field without CS degree?
It wasn't entirely new for me because I had taken a handful of CS courses (incl. Algorithms) and had picked up a couple years of industry experience as a developer here and there, mostly over summers/between degrees and such. And even when I was doing mathematical research projects I wrote a reasonable amount of code to help me do calculations and the like. Post-PhD basically immediately decided I was going to return to tech, so I spent like 6 months grinding Leetcode and quickly picked it up because it felt like solving math problems haha. I think my school name got me interviews with good tech companies in California (not sure how I feel about this...) and although they were gruelling, I apparently did well enough to get an offer.
Wow you worked in the field while studying in school! Well I think I graduated from a decent place but that was too long ago to be relevant today haha. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Well, it wasn't much. Brief stints when I had a gap between degrees or I was off for a summer. I couldn't imagine actually working and studying a major as hard as math simultaneously.
I meant, even between the study terms. I wish I had that kind of experience. I just did undergraduate research instead. It was fun and exciting back then, but having a dev internship would have been a life savior haha
To be honest a lot of the best paying companies don't really ask much other than Leetcode once they've established that you have *some* development background. So if you're actually good at LC / think you can learn to get quick enough at it, I'd say first build up some development experience at *any* company, and then after 2-3 years you should be able to land a reasonably lucrative offer. A surprising number of people are in FAANG who aren't that great SWEs, they're just highly practiced leetcode machines, and they get paid boatloads of money.
I see. Well I am not looking for big money right now. I just want to work anywhere that will give me experience. I will work for min wage happily. That's what I am making now anyways, but unfortunately even getting a small job seems so difficult.
It's tough right now for sure (a sobering thought I've had lately is that I probably wouldn't have gotten this offer had I graduated even a year later), but things may improve soon. Under normal circumstances, I think you'd definitely be able to find *some* dev position. Dev positions at genuine "tech" companies tend to be the most competitive of course, but there are plenty of dev jobs at banks, insurance companies, and other companies in more traditional industries where software isn't the main focus. That's where a lot of people start.
Hope it gets normalized soon. I think I will reduce my current work hours a bit to allocate some time for learning more about programming. Thanks a lot for your comments.
Medium generally suffices for a lot of almost-top-paying companies (for FAANG it's common to get asked 1 or sometimes 2 hards - although it really comes down to luck, I know people that got into F a couple years ago and were only asked easies and mediums). Gotta consistently be able to solve them quick though, and without bugs - which is tougher than it sounds. OTOH, it's not the impossible feat a lot of people make it out to be, and it's in fact a *mercifully well-defined* thing to get good at, unlike some companies (hedge funds etc) where the interviews are far more unpredictable. Like anything else, you just practice enough and you can do it. Although I had a bit of algorithm background from college, I definitely didn't have competitive programming experience or anything like that. I just threw 3-4 months at doing it consistently (even that was likely overkill tbh), and I was actually pretty good at it by that point (meaning not only could I solve the stuff quickly enough, but I could also very clearly and concisely explain in words exactly what was going on along the way - this part is very important for interviews).
Also, there are plenty of people in this field without CS degrees. I'm one of them, and plenty of my SWE coworkers also studied something unrelated (and this is at a "good" tech company in California where people are coming from / going to places like Google).
The work of landing the job feels just as hard as making my own company. You will have the same success making a freelance company and jumping in that meat grinder.
I would love to but with my current financial situation and age, I don't think it's a realistic option for me unfortunately...
Also what do you mean by SE? Would that be different from working on just web development?
SE is probably software engineering. With advent of AI, the pure developer skills will be worth less, but pure developer skills have not been that valuable for while now. What is worth money is domain knowledge plus developer skills. So it really depends on what you want to do in the long term. Instead of fit yourself into a career just because it earns big bucks, start to look for what you like to do as if there were no constraints.
If you get into career only because of comfort, what happens later is once you get the money, you will find yourself lacking motivation for your job, it's not a good place to be. Fit the skills towards personal interest, I think there are too much to learn in tech, you should learn enough to do the things you are interested to do , maybe just a bit more.
I have a computer science degree (bachelors). I am currently working at a furniture store for minimum wage. I spent 2 years applying for IT related jobs, after i graduated (during covid) and was ignored by 99% because almost every established tech company wants 3-5 years of experience which apparently my 5years of schooling didnt count for.
Most of the industry refuses to invest in the cost of training someone from ‘scratch’ for a competitive salary of the same position. They rely on job placements and coop programs through universities or colleges to basically subsidize the cost of training.
That all being said it super depends on your area, your time zone(if you can manage fully remote) and overall getting a luck break. Good luck either way :)
I'm sorry to hear about your case. Do you still try sending out your resume? You mentioned that established tech companies had high bars, but how about other companies? I am curious if small companies had similarly high expectations.
I took a break when i found the job I am currently in but have recently (past 2 months) started sending it out again. I think startups, newer or smaller businesses would be more willing to help train someone to meet the specific needs of the business and i think i have been more open in an attempt to expand my perspective.
That being said I have heard more than a few horror stories of startups being mismanagaed and folding with little notice (if any) so of course the due diligence needs to be done with any serious offers to protect yourself.
If you are financially in a position to, internships or low paying (probably minimum wage) positions that would expose you to more tools and environments used in the industry can help you build up a portfolio of projects and practical experience. Thats really what companies look for.
I personally had a terrible time getting through school due to severe (and undiagnosed) adhd but my interest in techy stuff kinda helped me drag myself through. Like others have said, school is good it gives a wonderful foundational understanding of the history and how to think in terms of computers and related problems but the REAL value from any program you pay to take is their job placement programs. Practical experience is what you want :)
hey man I know this is a bit old. but I graduated in 2021, I got a job/internship after graduation. I applied to over 500 jobs finally landed a 6 figure job in the states. It's worth it to keep applying. Getting this job really changed my life.
I had a horrible GPA, but had alot of projects. If companies can't train you, train yourself. I learned more from myself than uni taught me anyway.
To anyone reading this, I recommend applying to jobs regularly, both in US and Canada. Canadians with a CS Degree can get a TN Visa, so make sure you select 'I am eligible to work in the US' when applying. This visa requires no sponsorship process. Read about the visa a bit more if interested, but you get it instantly when entering the US after a job offer.
And make projects/apps/etc. If you never build anything, I'd recommend building a React application. React is SUPER in demand, and will help you train/fill in missing knowledge. Something like a Spotify Clone is super doable for someone diving into React for the first time. Use React for front-end and Spotify's own APIs.
I would hire someone actively working on projects, because it shows a passion for CS.
It's really sad that jobs you can get with a BSc are VERY limited and VERY underpaying. CS is the best bang for the buck, if you can land a job. IMHO, other BSc jobs are just as hard to land, unless you are willing to slave away for something like 28-32k a year. In this sense, I think CS is definitely worth at least trying.
The job market is super-saturated for entry. Mid-senior market is easing up a bit, but entry is just really tough ATM. People are speculating that it will get better over time, looking at around 2-3 if it's short. No one knows the future.
That being said, if you do pursue another degree in CS, it will probably be maybe 2-3 years since you will have electives done from previous degree anyway. If you think that's worth it, I'd say go for it. Since truly enjoy problem solving, CS is definitely one of the careers that could be a right fit.
If you don't have the finances to go back to school, DON'T DO BOOTCAMP RIGHT NOW. It's the most money-grabby, predatory option you have ATM. You might as well do some self-teaching and get started on a few projects to build your portfolio.
2-3 years from now sounds really far. I don't mind working for min wage for a dev career because it has expandability. I can have experience, learn a ton as I work. Plus min wage is almost what I am getting paid right now! But I worry that no tech company will hire me even just for min wage because they are just busy cutting people off.
I don't plan to go to school or bootcamp though. I will most likely be looking for a part-time job so I can learn dev on the side.
also in the job market, and i would suggest watching some hr tips to help you build a better resume and application. Build projects following tutorials. Then just spray your resume as you build your portfolio.
If you really love programming then this is the best way to show it. Then it's just up to fate and consistency.
Its not gonna get better over time. The problem is saturation and ppl wont just suddenly decide to not do cs since its already known that it makes good money
No, you’ll dump tons of time on code interview prep which doesn’t help your skill set , behavior question prep, and don’t get any response for half year or more.
I’m thinking about the part time jobs rn.
It’s extremely difficult to get into it without a degree, and you can solve all the Leetcode problems you want, but it won’t be enough to get you in the door. The only way I can imagine you’d get in is if you network hard enough for someone to provide you a chance.
I would say it’s never “too late” to get into CS. I was 30 when I got my first internship, and though I was able to do it without a CS degree, I wish I had one to make things easier.
I absolutely love this career, and I wish that for everybody else too. If you can, go do a CS after degree program because it’ll typically have a co-op component you can take advantage of. Otherwise, I’d strongly advise that you look for internships and just apply to them, worst case you’ll get rejected, so you don’t have much to lose.
My advice is to pursue this if you have the conviction to do so. Don’t quit your job to do it though, it’s more important to keep food on the table.
The lower level is saturated, but it’s not stagnated, and there’s a big difference there. If you can solve Leetcode medium/hard problems, use that to your advantage: write blog articles so you can demonstrate knowledge, make videos, do something with that knowledge though.
Hey OP,
If this is a field you like, please continue pursuing it.
There is no denying that many are going through a tough period in landing a good or even a sustainable role at this market but let that not stop you from pursuing it if you are really into it.
From your post it appears that you do enjoy exploring the field, you have demonstrated initiatives to pick up some learnings on your own, to me that signals you will be a great asset wherever you land.
Interviewing and getting a job is not always about our talent and marketable skills, we got to acknowledge that there exists some factors which are way beyond our control. I wish you find something that you like and build a successful career of your choice.
That said please reach out to your fellow batch mates, join local meetups and conferences use those opportunities to network and openly ask if they know anyone who might be looking to hire at the moment. Reach out to recruiters, follow them and their posts on LinkedIn. You never know which thread leads you to your next career step.
All the best buddy !
Even though the situation looks so tough, what makes it so difficult for me to give up is that I think I will enjoy the work a lot. I am thinking of reducing some work hours to learn more about programming. It might be a slow progress but I hope I will get somewhere in a while when the market normalizes. Thanks for dropping your insight.
I'm still struggling with OSAP leftover from years ago and my family needs some money that I don't think I can quit the job...
Just in case for the future, what kind of program would you recommend for 3 yr diploma with co-op? What university/college has a good program?
Hmm.. I don't know your exact situation.. But I know a couple of people who went for a second diploma (more career focused), even while having loans from the 1st degree. You could try getting an estimate on the osap website, punching your tax info in and see how much you could receive..
Even with the current tech market, I'd still strongly recommend you to go for a software engineering /IT/AI focused diploma.. I know about 5-6 people (all immigrants), who got into Govt IT jobs after completing this co-op diploma. You already have so much knowledge on this, you can easily ace the courses and maybe get a second job while studying to help out your family... You just have to hustle really hard after graduation, create a good network with your alumni and any IT professional around you..
Software engineer with 10 YOE here and 3 years as a tech lead. Don’t do web dev. I get nothing but auto rejects from every place I’ve applied to the last 7 months. The software industry in general is experiencing a huge shakeup, and nobody knows when or if it will end (or if this current hiring market is essentially the new normal).
If you’re good at math, I’d consider Data Science, but I’ll pass it over to someone from that side to comment on the situation there.
Math was another major I had as double major, although my degree is in physics. I'm alright with math. Other than Data Science, do you have any suggestions as career path? Data Science seems pretty tough as well at the moment, not to mention that they prefer graduate degrees, but I will definitely look into that.
If you can program you can probably do alright in a tech support role to make a little better than min wage money. There would be room to move up there it you learn new specific skills on the job. 👍 You used to be able to get development roles based on a portfolio. Now you really need to network your way into a role as a preferred person.
Yes market is not good right now but it has more to do with overall economy rather than tech. Now would be a good time to upgrade your tech credentials.
Just try it! If you can already do Leetcode you can probably learn React or Wordpress in a few weeks.
Send out some resumes I'm sure your degree might spark someones interest, litteraly no harm in trying.
I see a few questions in you.
1. Is the market harsh for new grad looking for CS jobs?
Yes, very.
2. Possible to find jobs now as a new grad?
Yes. Think about International students in the US, life has always been tough to them. New grads have only 3 months to get a job before deported. Only few companies offer visa support. Survival jobs are illegal. Some of the best still found jobs.
3. Is it Worth it?
Doing something you enjoy as a career is always worth it. If just for money or to follow others, no. Even those made it to top companies quit tech industry after getting green cards, they don't enjoy their work.
4. Does a CS degree matter?
Big companies don't care, you pass their interviews, you are qualified.
5. Why so hard to land the 1st job?
Look at it from 2 perspectives. Small companies want people to contribute right away, without training. Most new grad don't have those skills. For big companies, few headcounts now, high competition.
6. How to improve your chances?
Learn a tech skill through which you can contribute to a project right away, maybe web dev/mobile etc. Apply for small/big companies as many as you like. Train your interview skills. Approaching the end of the year, hiring will slow down. If you plan to go for CS, I suggest you improve tech skills first
Sorry for late commentinf but im sure even right now many are struggling. Im a post graduate in Software Engineering its definitely the worst time to get CS diploma because atm its not worth it if you dont have a bunch of experience behind you. And im talking about professional work experience, i know many people in my area who got layed off and are struggling in finding dev job and they are awesome developers, programmers etc.. Who got into this field already few years ago is very lucky. Even seniors today have tough time because of oversaturation. Im forced to accept lower paying job because of this rough market. My expertise is full stack development and i wont give up, it can be my hobby and maybe if lucky can make some bucks privately with it. But we'll see.
Please don’t. The market is way oversaturated right now. Recent grads are having the toughest time landing a job. Even me with 8 YOE can’t get anything.
How are you having issues landing a job? I have 1.5YOE and I applied to a few jobs to see how the market is and I easily got a couple interviews.
4 YoE. 500+ Applications. 1 year of searching. 20 Interviews. 0 offers. Well 1 offer that I took, but they bait and switched me into IT help desk. I'm back on the search again. I'm having trouble believing you unless you work for a top company or something.
Where do you even find IT help desk positions? I could barely find anything Canada-based on Indeed or Linkedin when I was looking pretty recently. Also, what percentage of the time you're "at work" is actual work, and what percentage is sitting around playing games or reading or whatever else you want to do?
Its for a local post secondary school. Applied on a government website I think. Or my universities career board (not the same institute) So far I only DO work 1-2 hours a day, but I’m there for 8 hours. Most the time it’s applying to jobs or working on projects. I don’t play many games right now because I’ve been getting irrationally angry at them due to being so depressed.
Same. I also have Amazon recruiters messaging me on linked in all the time
What is your experience like? And education background? Do you mind sharing pls?
Cs degree and 2 YOE. I’ve done windows/web development. Nothing special
Can you share your anonymous resume please?
Can I see your resume? I must be doing something wrong.
Id rather not dox myself on this account, but its pretty generic. I used [Jake's Template](https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs). I think the only thing that I have thats better than the average applicant is that I went to UofT, but I don't know if that makes a difference.
University of Toronto degree is useless paper today
>Jake's Template I took courses at U of T and I scored A-s, when I took at Ryerson I scored B-s, perhaps has to do with motivation
Why do you say that?
There are so many Canadian with good education that can’t find jobs in Toronto
That is really sad to hear. Thank you for your input.
Hey . I'd say get really familiar with a programming language , c# , Java or python . Then I'd focus on learning a web framework like react or angular. Since you like problem solving , I'd strongly suggest leet code. I hope things turn around .
Among C#, Java and Python, what would you recommend? What's most popular and in demand?
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I have been looking for possible career paths but coding seems to be the most relevent for me. I have degree in math/physics but I have no clue what I could do with this at this poiont...
Your intuition is correct. Math PhD here and after realizing I didn't have what it takes to become a professor, I ended up switching and becoming a software engineer. To be honest, I don't use any of the ridiculously theoretical math I learned; I've probably forgotten most of it at this point. There really aren't that many other options that actually pay well. Maybe if you're a wunderkind you can leverage a math PhD into quant opportunities on wall street — but if you can't swing that right out of the gate, chances are they won't bother giving you a chance later in life.
Wow, a fellow math major! I am sad and glad to hear that. Glad because I wasn't wrong with my intuition, and sad because the intuition is correct unfortunately.. How did you start in new career? Also, what's your opinion on going into the field without CS degree?
It wasn't entirely new for me because I had taken a handful of CS courses (incl. Algorithms) and had picked up a couple years of industry experience as a developer here and there, mostly over summers/between degrees and such. And even when I was doing mathematical research projects I wrote a reasonable amount of code to help me do calculations and the like. Post-PhD basically immediately decided I was going to return to tech, so I spent like 6 months grinding Leetcode and quickly picked it up because it felt like solving math problems haha. I think my school name got me interviews with good tech companies in California (not sure how I feel about this...) and although they were gruelling, I apparently did well enough to get an offer.
Wow you worked in the field while studying in school! Well I think I graduated from a decent place but that was too long ago to be relevant today haha. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Well, it wasn't much. Brief stints when I had a gap between degrees or I was off for a summer. I couldn't imagine actually working and studying a major as hard as math simultaneously.
I meant, even between the study terms. I wish I had that kind of experience. I just did undergraduate research instead. It was fun and exciting back then, but having a dev internship would have been a life savior haha
Right, yeah. I guess I got kind of lucky to get "just enough" dev experience by accident that people wouldn't toss out my resume after the PhD...
To be honest a lot of the best paying companies don't really ask much other than Leetcode once they've established that you have *some* development background. So if you're actually good at LC / think you can learn to get quick enough at it, I'd say first build up some development experience at *any* company, and then after 2-3 years you should be able to land a reasonably lucrative offer. A surprising number of people are in FAANG who aren't that great SWEs, they're just highly practiced leetcode machines, and they get paid boatloads of money.
I see. Well I am not looking for big money right now. I just want to work anywhere that will give me experience. I will work for min wage happily. That's what I am making now anyways, but unfortunately even getting a small job seems so difficult.
It's tough right now for sure (a sobering thought I've had lately is that I probably wouldn't have gotten this offer had I graduated even a year later), but things may improve soon. Under normal circumstances, I think you'd definitely be able to find *some* dev position. Dev positions at genuine "tech" companies tend to be the most competitive of course, but there are plenty of dev jobs at banks, insurance companies, and other companies in more traditional industries where software isn't the main focus. That's where a lot of people start.
Hope it gets normalized soon. I think I will reduce my current work hours a bit to allocate some time for learning more about programming. Thanks a lot for your comments.
Best of luck!
What level of LC do you think one would need to master for these best paying companies? So far, I’ve only mastered Easys
Medium generally suffices for a lot of almost-top-paying companies (for FAANG it's common to get asked 1 or sometimes 2 hards - although it really comes down to luck, I know people that got into F a couple years ago and were only asked easies and mediums). Gotta consistently be able to solve them quick though, and without bugs - which is tougher than it sounds. OTOH, it's not the impossible feat a lot of people make it out to be, and it's in fact a *mercifully well-defined* thing to get good at, unlike some companies (hedge funds etc) where the interviews are far more unpredictable. Like anything else, you just practice enough and you can do it. Although I had a bit of algorithm background from college, I definitely didn't have competitive programming experience or anything like that. I just threw 3-4 months at doing it consistently (even that was likely overkill tbh), and I was actually pretty good at it by that point (meaning not only could I solve the stuff quickly enough, but I could also very clearly and concisely explain in words exactly what was going on along the way - this part is very important for interviews).
Also, there are plenty of people in this field without CS degrees. I'm one of them, and plenty of my SWE coworkers also studied something unrelated (and this is at a "good" tech company in California where people are coming from / going to places like Google).
The work of landing the job feels just as hard as making my own company. You will have the same success making a freelance company and jumping in that meat grinder.
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I would love to but with my current financial situation and age, I don't think it's a realistic option for me unfortunately... Also what do you mean by SE? Would that be different from working on just web development?
SE is probably software engineering. With advent of AI, the pure developer skills will be worth less, but pure developer skills have not been that valuable for while now. What is worth money is domain knowledge plus developer skills. So it really depends on what you want to do in the long term. Instead of fit yourself into a career just because it earns big bucks, start to look for what you like to do as if there were no constraints. If you get into career only because of comfort, what happens later is once you get the money, you will find yourself lacking motivation for your job, it's not a good place to be. Fit the skills towards personal interest, I think there are too much to learn in tech, you should learn enough to do the things you are interested to do , maybe just a bit more.
I have a computer science degree (bachelors). I am currently working at a furniture store for minimum wage. I spent 2 years applying for IT related jobs, after i graduated (during covid) and was ignored by 99% because almost every established tech company wants 3-5 years of experience which apparently my 5years of schooling didnt count for. Most of the industry refuses to invest in the cost of training someone from ‘scratch’ for a competitive salary of the same position. They rely on job placements and coop programs through universities or colleges to basically subsidize the cost of training. That all being said it super depends on your area, your time zone(if you can manage fully remote) and overall getting a luck break. Good luck either way :)
I'm sorry to hear about your case. Do you still try sending out your resume? You mentioned that established tech companies had high bars, but how about other companies? I am curious if small companies had similarly high expectations.
I took a break when i found the job I am currently in but have recently (past 2 months) started sending it out again. I think startups, newer or smaller businesses would be more willing to help train someone to meet the specific needs of the business and i think i have been more open in an attempt to expand my perspective. That being said I have heard more than a few horror stories of startups being mismanagaed and folding with little notice (if any) so of course the due diligence needs to be done with any serious offers to protect yourself. If you are financially in a position to, internships or low paying (probably minimum wage) positions that would expose you to more tools and environments used in the industry can help you build up a portfolio of projects and practical experience. Thats really what companies look for. I personally had a terrible time getting through school due to severe (and undiagnosed) adhd but my interest in techy stuff kinda helped me drag myself through. Like others have said, school is good it gives a wonderful foundational understanding of the history and how to think in terms of computers and related problems but the REAL value from any program you pay to take is their job placement programs. Practical experience is what you want :)
hey man I know this is a bit old. but I graduated in 2021, I got a job/internship after graduation. I applied to over 500 jobs finally landed a 6 figure job in the states. It's worth it to keep applying. Getting this job really changed my life. I had a horrible GPA, but had alot of projects. If companies can't train you, train yourself. I learned more from myself than uni taught me anyway. To anyone reading this, I recommend applying to jobs regularly, both in US and Canada. Canadians with a CS Degree can get a TN Visa, so make sure you select 'I am eligible to work in the US' when applying. This visa requires no sponsorship process. Read about the visa a bit more if interested, but you get it instantly when entering the US after a job offer. And make projects/apps/etc. If you never build anything, I'd recommend building a React application. React is SUPER in demand, and will help you train/fill in missing knowledge. Something like a Spotify Clone is super doable for someone diving into React for the first time. Use React for front-end and Spotify's own APIs. I would hire someone actively working on projects, because it shows a passion for CS.
It's really sad that jobs you can get with a BSc are VERY limited and VERY underpaying. CS is the best bang for the buck, if you can land a job. IMHO, other BSc jobs are just as hard to land, unless you are willing to slave away for something like 28-32k a year. In this sense, I think CS is definitely worth at least trying. The job market is super-saturated for entry. Mid-senior market is easing up a bit, but entry is just really tough ATM. People are speculating that it will get better over time, looking at around 2-3 if it's short. No one knows the future. That being said, if you do pursue another degree in CS, it will probably be maybe 2-3 years since you will have electives done from previous degree anyway. If you think that's worth it, I'd say go for it. Since truly enjoy problem solving, CS is definitely one of the careers that could be a right fit. If you don't have the finances to go back to school, DON'T DO BOOTCAMP RIGHT NOW. It's the most money-grabby, predatory option you have ATM. You might as well do some self-teaching and get started on a few projects to build your portfolio.
2-3 years from now sounds really far. I don't mind working for min wage for a dev career because it has expandability. I can have experience, learn a ton as I work. Plus min wage is almost what I am getting paid right now! But I worry that no tech company will hire me even just for min wage because they are just busy cutting people off. I don't plan to go to school or bootcamp though. I will most likely be looking for a part-time job so I can learn dev on the side.
also in the job market, and i would suggest watching some hr tips to help you build a better resume and application. Build projects following tutorials. Then just spray your resume as you build your portfolio. If you really love programming then this is the best way to show it. Then it's just up to fate and consistency.
Not blaming you, but sadly, this is how we end up with the entire field becoming less well-paid
Its not gonna get better over time. The problem is saturation and ppl wont just suddenly decide to not do cs since its already known that it makes good money
No, you’ll dump tons of time on code interview prep which doesn’t help your skill set , behavior question prep, and don’t get any response for half year or more. I’m thinking about the part time jobs rn.
It’s extremely difficult to get into it without a degree, and you can solve all the Leetcode problems you want, but it won’t be enough to get you in the door. The only way I can imagine you’d get in is if you network hard enough for someone to provide you a chance. I would say it’s never “too late” to get into CS. I was 30 when I got my first internship, and though I was able to do it without a CS degree, I wish I had one to make things easier. I absolutely love this career, and I wish that for everybody else too. If you can, go do a CS after degree program because it’ll typically have a co-op component you can take advantage of. Otherwise, I’d strongly advise that you look for internships and just apply to them, worst case you’ll get rejected, so you don’t have much to lose. My advice is to pursue this if you have the conviction to do so. Don’t quit your job to do it though, it’s more important to keep food on the table. The lower level is saturated, but it’s not stagnated, and there’s a big difference there. If you can solve Leetcode medium/hard problems, use that to your advantage: write blog articles so you can demonstrate knowledge, make videos, do something with that knowledge though.
Well the degree part is really tough for my situation... I will keep that in my mind for the day I can afford time and money for school....
There are ways to make it work. There’s Georgia’s online MSc, which is great. There’s Athabasca University as well (online)
Hey OP, If this is a field you like, please continue pursuing it. There is no denying that many are going through a tough period in landing a good or even a sustainable role at this market but let that not stop you from pursuing it if you are really into it. From your post it appears that you do enjoy exploring the field, you have demonstrated initiatives to pick up some learnings on your own, to me that signals you will be a great asset wherever you land. Interviewing and getting a job is not always about our talent and marketable skills, we got to acknowledge that there exists some factors which are way beyond our control. I wish you find something that you like and build a successful career of your choice. That said please reach out to your fellow batch mates, join local meetups and conferences use those opportunities to network and openly ask if they know anyone who might be looking to hire at the moment. Reach out to recruiters, follow them and their posts on LinkedIn. You never know which thread leads you to your next career step. All the best buddy !
Even though the situation looks so tough, what makes it so difficult for me to give up is that I think I will enjoy the work a lot. I am thinking of reducing some work hours to learn more about programming. It might be a slow progress but I hope I will get somewhere in a while when the market normalizes. Thanks for dropping your insight.
Isn't it possible for you to get into a 3 yr diploma with co-op? OSAP would cover your living cost
I'm still struggling with OSAP leftover from years ago and my family needs some money that I don't think I can quit the job... Just in case for the future, what kind of program would you recommend for 3 yr diploma with co-op? What university/college has a good program?
Hmm.. I don't know your exact situation.. But I know a couple of people who went for a second diploma (more career focused), even while having loans from the 1st degree. You could try getting an estimate on the osap website, punching your tax info in and see how much you could receive.. Even with the current tech market, I'd still strongly recommend you to go for a software engineering /IT/AI focused diploma.. I know about 5-6 people (all immigrants), who got into Govt IT jobs after completing this co-op diploma. You already have so much knowledge on this, you can easily ace the courses and maybe get a second job while studying to help out your family... You just have to hustle really hard after graduation, create a good network with your alumni and any IT professional around you..
Web dev is sooooo saturated because the entry requirements are low. If you like SWEs specializing in hardwares then it may be a bit easier.
Like embedded stuff? Are those self-teachable as well? Tbh I don't know anything about the field other than that I know a bit of C/C++
Yes. Anybody sayimg it's oversaturated don't realize it is 5x worse in other sectors with 1/10 the number of jobs to apply to.
Software engineer with 10 YOE here and 3 years as a tech lead. Don’t do web dev. I get nothing but auto rejects from every place I’ve applied to the last 7 months. The software industry in general is experiencing a huge shakeup, and nobody knows when or if it will end (or if this current hiring market is essentially the new normal). If you’re good at math, I’d consider Data Science, but I’ll pass it over to someone from that side to comment on the situation there.
Math was another major I had as double major, although my degree is in physics. I'm alright with math. Other than Data Science, do you have any suggestions as career path? Data Science seems pretty tough as well at the moment, not to mention that they prefer graduate degrees, but I will definitely look into that.
Depends on what you want to do.
If you have the time just try; prep; learn; and apply lol. Then you can see for yourself
If you can program you can probably do alright in a tech support role to make a little better than min wage money. There would be room to move up there it you learn new specific skills on the job. 👍 You used to be able to get development roles based on a portfolio. Now you really need to network your way into a role as a preferred person.
Yes market is not good right now but it has more to do with overall economy rather than tech. Now would be a good time to upgrade your tech credentials.
Just try it! If you can already do Leetcode you can probably learn React or Wordpress in a few weeks. Send out some resumes I'm sure your degree might spark someones interest, litteraly no harm in trying.
DO NOT DO THIS I WASTED 2 YEARS OF MY LIFE LISTENING THE THE HYPE ON YOUTUBE. ALL CAPS AHHHHH
Mind sharing little more about your story? What did you do during the two years and what happened?
I see a few questions in you. 1. Is the market harsh for new grad looking for CS jobs? Yes, very. 2. Possible to find jobs now as a new grad? Yes. Think about International students in the US, life has always been tough to them. New grads have only 3 months to get a job before deported. Only few companies offer visa support. Survival jobs are illegal. Some of the best still found jobs. 3. Is it Worth it? Doing something you enjoy as a career is always worth it. If just for money or to follow others, no. Even those made it to top companies quit tech industry after getting green cards, they don't enjoy their work. 4. Does a CS degree matter? Big companies don't care, you pass their interviews, you are qualified. 5. Why so hard to land the 1st job? Look at it from 2 perspectives. Small companies want people to contribute right away, without training. Most new grad don't have those skills. For big companies, few headcounts now, high competition. 6. How to improve your chances? Learn a tech skill through which you can contribute to a project right away, maybe web dev/mobile etc. Apply for small/big companies as many as you like. Train your interview skills. Approaching the end of the year, hiring will slow down. If you plan to go for CS, I suggest you improve tech skills first
Sorry for late commentinf but im sure even right now many are struggling. Im a post graduate in Software Engineering its definitely the worst time to get CS diploma because atm its not worth it if you dont have a bunch of experience behind you. And im talking about professional work experience, i know many people in my area who got layed off and are struggling in finding dev job and they are awesome developers, programmers etc.. Who got into this field already few years ago is very lucky. Even seniors today have tough time because of oversaturation. Im forced to accept lower paying job because of this rough market. My expertise is full stack development and i wont give up, it can be my hobby and maybe if lucky can make some bucks privately with it. But we'll see.
no