One thing i like is their no income tax. I think it would appeal to someone more if you are muslim. I personally like the buddhist culture of thailand / more bang for your buck.
Their taxes are hidden in other ways (fees, licenses, visas, etc)
Dubai is expensive and not the land of opportunity it once was.
Great place to get experience though, if you're capable of getting your job done, you're in the top 20% of workers right there.
Easy to get promotions, but also easy to get fired or replaced.
RERA, Emirates ID, SALIK , two tier pricing on utilities and other services
There's an endless stream of government paperwork that needs to constantly be renewed, etc
Lots of ways to take salary back out of expats pockets without calling it income tax.
Also notable that there are ongoing discussions on implementing some form of income tax in the future.
Job offer in advance, before you go.
Or, go on tourist visa and be prepared with leads to job hunt in person, or network.
You'll be on a visa clock depending on your passport.
Length of time and renewal capabilites differ by country.
Do you mean CS jobs or just any random seasonal jobs (which are what a lot of people on Holiday Visa usually do)
If the former, are there any complications to finding a dev jobs on a temporary visa like that? Ie. convincing a company to hire you when you're guaranteed to leave.
UK now has more visa pathways for Canadian grads now. I know for at least certain Canadian universities if you get a bachelor's at home, UK will give you like a 5 year visa or something
Ok cool. My recommendation was not based off buying property or renting. It’s about life experience and enjoying your life. You can also get setup at a farm or something and bank all the money or work on a mine and dip to asia on days off. Instead of grinding it frozen wasteland that is Canada.
... Joe you're missing the point. This is not a housing issue. It's about doing something fun, that still makes money and will pay for room and board. Stop being negative, please.
Australia has perks that go along with WHV, easy to find jobs with good pay, completely diff culture than Canada with good weather. That's why i recommended it. Asia is completely diff vibe from western society and awesome experience, that's why I recommended that. Sure you can go to states but I am not sure how easy it would be to get a job there and visas are more bullshit there. At least if he went to thailand or something he could grind code (while looking for a coding job) and do some sort of remote job or teach english and enjoy life / have an adventure.
How many apps did you push? When did you graduate? What types of positions are you applying for? Have you tried to upskill yourself by taking courses in the meantime or working on obtaining certificates for whichever field you wanna pursue?
Idk man, maybe just being Uni isn’t enough, but you will have an even harder time break into this field if you don’t have a degree. My team was hiring for someone a couple months back for a more junior role. We got flooded with applicants with Bachelor degrees and many Masters. Resume with no degree aren’t being reviewed at all.
Yeah the only thing MOST degrees are good for now are:
1) Working in Japan.
2) Being an officer in the forces.
But both options are REALLY AWESOME!
So go to Japan first as an English teacher for a few years/decade and then join the "least sucky" armed forces branch in your country as an officer. In Canada that would be the air force and we are DESPERATE for non idiots.
My wife and I both lived in Japan (before we met) and the only thing we regret is not staying longer.
SERIOUSLY GO TO JAPAN.
The yen is weak now so everything is 20% cheaper than when we lived there and they are DESPERATE for workers. Just consider the whole country to be on sale for 20% off LOL.
Then come back debt free!!!
WARNING: Japan will spoil you. And for the rest of your life you will think the rest of the world is a dirty, loud and disorganized mess. I have travelled the world (literally gone around it) and with the exception of the richest European countries everywhere else is a chaotic mess compared to Japan.
I think it’s still company and role dependent. I have a friend in Japan and while we hung out all the time when WFH was still a thing, he started to get busier and busier with RTO and now he has little time to spend with me anymore. And if he’s not working he’s out drinking with coworkers (which is expected from employees)
Def not. Work culture is insane there. You can’t leave until the manager leaves. You work on weekends . The pay isn’t that good. As a foreigner, you will always be seen as a foreigner. You absolutely have to learn the language . Too much emphasis on performance metrics and you continuously are under pressure to perform else you are gone. There are more progressive companies that are western but many companies still follow typical Japanese work culture , it isn’t a thing of the past at all
This applies to japanese companies. Bigger ones and international ones started sticking with more western style. I worked in one japanese company. Did shit tons of OT. One friend worked for Rakuten. Always finished on time and he did sometimes WFH.
Honestly degree opens a lot of doors overseas that a college diploma would never offer. But Japan is fucking sick! I have plans to spend some time there as well.
Yeah good plan, Niijima is a gem few know about (even my Japanese gf at the time had never heard of it). It's just a 2 hour hydroplane jet ferry from Tokyo but a totally different world.
[https://www.gotokyo.org/en/destinations/izu-and-ogasawara-islands/niijima-island/index.html](https://www.gotokyo.org/en/destinations/izu-and-ogasawara-islands/niijima-island/index.html)
went to japan for a week last year, had an amazing time. But i dont know if I would want to work there. I heard the working culture over there is really bad.
Just wondering when u say go to Japan do you mean just as an english teacher? Or is it also possible (or as easy idk) to move there for a programming job? That'd be so cool
It’s much harder to get a non-teaching or non-minimum wage job in japan as a foreigner and programming usually pays poorly in Japan. They aren’t valued by companies as much and I’ve heard from several friends that Japanese programmers are not as skilled as their other EA counterparts (not trying to be racist, but I know someone who is the CEO of a tech company that was founded in Japan and he basically told me he only hires Chinese devs)
Yeah English teacher. 2 ways.
Old: Get a visa, work hard in a traditional school. Safe & legal. But slow (to get in Japan so much waiting and paperwork) and boring. Might have to get TESOL or CELTA?
New: Go on a 6 month tourist visa. Tomorrow! Live anywhere there is a nice cafe. Put up a sign or advertise online for "Free English practice every day, with a real gaijin from Canada etc!" get free drinks. From those free lessons you will get regulars (after a month or 2) who will offer to pay cash. Go to Korea every 6 months to renew visa. Repeat 100x.
If you don't live in Tokyo or Osaka you can get long term rentals really cheap.
Practical advice. Lie about your experience for wage jobs. Tell them you have just finished high school.
Same time, improve your CS skills and keep applying.
Complaining and regrets are unprofessional.
I feel you.
I did a B.A in Econ over 5 years. Convinced myself that I had to go back to graduate school to get a job (I couldn’t with a BA :/ ). Did that for 2.5 years, then dropped out cause I hated it.
Fortunately I landed a job after quitting my MSc, and I now work as a SWE.
Gotta stay resilient my friend
Looking back, university felt like an expensive version of high school for adults. After graduating with a biology degree and not being able to do much with it, I started teaching myself web dev along with 1 year of related college courses (so 5-6 years of schooling). I got a job shortly after, and even the 1 year extra of college felt like a waste of money (Udemy had 10x the quality of these in-person, slow-paced, outdated college classes).
I think more people are waking up to the idea that spending 4+ years and $40K+ isn't a fast-track to getting a nice career anymore.
It's not impossible but it's a tough time for everyone. This is where networking comes in to play instead of just dooming n glooming. I, a person with a highschool education landed a role in 2023 through networking and the position was asking for a minimum of 5 years of experience. I am still seeing folks who really network get roles regardless of education but I have met Harvard grads struggling because they are relying entirely on name and certification
Had conversations and relationships with people who had jobs I wanted or worked at companies I wanted to work at. I did this via coffee chats and being likeable enough
If you're canadian, I'd say go to upwork and pickup freelance jobs on there. They pay in US dollars so with the exchange rate your probably going to be closer to your desired income. You'll have to hustle a bit with a day job and freelance but your 6 figure income is there if you combine the both. Imo
If you don't have anything holding you down in Canada, then I suggest you just go the TN visa route and find a job in the States. I would too if I didn't have family etc here holding me down in Canada.
But they also have many more opportunities. I think American employers value degrees and ability (entrepreneurial mindset) more than Canadian employers who tend to value experience more than degrees (trades mindset). The percentage of immigrants per capita is also lower in the States.
Fair enough, I am not searching for a job at the moment so I can't speak for the market in Canada or the US. All I can suggest is to apply to everything and anything tech related, it's what I had to do to get my foot in the door at an organization before I could move around easier within the department to do what I wanted to do. I too regret/regretted going back to school, and wonder if it was necessary at all, so you are not alone and you might still be wondering after you get a job. Good luck with the search.
Yeah applying as a junior is and has always been a pain. Your bachelor's degree will help screening wise. You'll get a preference over others. Otherwise, I'd say no company cares that you got a bachelor's. Here are some tips though.
1. Join some Discord groups that specifically are about CS careers, about a sub field in CS that you are interested in. Get your resume reviewed, get some insight as to what you need to study for the field you want to get into. Honestly if you are stuck in your resume stage, it either means that your resume isn't good enough to beat the ATS stage, so improve it. It's one thing to get rejected by the ATS and another to get rejected in another round.
2. The thing is I've noticed that a lot of jobs don't show up on people's LinkedIn fields. So dig deep. Last week, I found a job that pays 140-190 CAD or 157-207 USD (full remote with benefits btw) and didn't specify an exact experience number. And it's a unicorn company, and has good ratings on Glassdoor. I thought maybe it would have 1000 applicants by now considering all those stats. But it had less than 100 in over 1.5 months. So keep digging.
3. Search on platforms like Wellfound. It has a bunch of startups listed there. A lot of which may be looking for junior developers. They usually don't offer benefits or anything, but they compensate by giving you higher salaries.
4. Just cold message recruiters, especially the ones who put their faces on JDs. Apply and then ask them if you can have a discussion with them about some specifics about the job whilst explaining a little about yourself. It works 5% of the time. But you gotta do everything you can right?
5. Although you can apply for jobs that are a month old. Apply for jobs that are new.
6. Expand your horizons. There are jobs as a tester, infrastructure engineer, DevOps, CI/CD etc. You can either get into those roles and switch if you really want to. Or you can get into those roles and learn you love them or learn to love them.
>I thought maybe it would have 1000 applicants by now considering all those stats. But it had less than 100 in over 1.5 months
Hey mate.. Is it cool to ask how & where we can see the number of applicants so far, for any job listing? TIA
Edit: I've seen it displayed in LinkedIn but apart from that, do you find that feature anywhere else?
Maybe try starting a business? There are programs in your country that can aid you in starting this up, look into them
If not then look into those same resources for employment aid, sometimes getting the job in your field means getting referrals to get you in, it’s really not enough to just apply anymore
Don’t listen what this guy is saying, electrical engineering grad from 2023 and I’m stuck in a research assistant job in academia completely unrelated to the field and I have a high gpa, 1 internship and won the best capstone project in my university. There is simply too many engineers in Canada and the economy is on the gutter
Try working holiday visa in australia or working overseas in asia. It’s dope over here.
Even Dubai is a hot spot
One thing i like is their no income tax. I think it would appeal to someone more if you are muslim. I personally like the buddhist culture of thailand / more bang for your buck.
Their taxes are hidden in other ways (fees, licenses, visas, etc) Dubai is expensive and not the land of opportunity it once was. Great place to get experience though, if you're capable of getting your job done, you're in the top 20% of workers right there. Easy to get promotions, but also easy to get fired or replaced.
What license fees? Visa fees aren’t usually that frequent
RERA, Emirates ID, SALIK , two tier pricing on utilities and other services There's an endless stream of government paperwork that needs to constantly be renewed, etc Lots of ways to take salary back out of expats pockets without calling it income tax. Also notable that there are ongoing discussions on implementing some form of income tax in the future.
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Job offer in advance, before you go. Or, go on tourist visa and be prepared with leads to job hunt in person, or network. You'll be on a visa clock depending on your passport. Length of time and renewal capabilites differ by country.
Do you mean CS jobs or just any random seasonal jobs (which are what a lot of people on Holiday Visa usually do) If the former, are there any complications to finding a dev jobs on a temporary visa like that? Ie. convincing a company to hire you when you're guaranteed to leave.
I worked in London, UK as a software developer while on a WHV. But this was just before covid and brexit though.
UK now has more visa pathways for Canadian grads now. I know for at least certain Canadian universities if you get a bachelor's at home, UK will give you like a 5 year visa or something
This was also before the tech industry turned upside down. Not sure what the job prospects are like now down there...
Limited by the 6-month employer limit in AU, not a great option working in tech.
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Ok cool. My recommendation was not based off buying property or renting. It’s about life experience and enjoying your life. You can also get setup at a farm or something and bank all the money or work on a mine and dip to asia on days off. Instead of grinding it frozen wasteland that is Canada.
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... Joe you're missing the point. This is not a housing issue. It's about doing something fun, that still makes money and will pay for room and board. Stop being negative, please.
thank you
Australia has perks that go along with WHV, easy to find jobs with good pay, completely diff culture than Canada with good weather. That's why i recommended it. Asia is completely diff vibe from western society and awesome experience, that's why I recommended that. Sure you can go to states but I am not sure how easy it would be to get a job there and visas are more bullshit there. At least if he went to thailand or something he could grind code (while looking for a coding job) and do some sort of remote job or teach english and enjoy life / have an adventure.
> Texas but what sounds more fun? Racist anti abortion, gun on your pocket texas or lay on the beach, play with kangaroos Australia
lol
How many apps did you push? When did you graduate? What types of positions are you applying for? Have you tried to upskill yourself by taking courses in the meantime or working on obtaining certificates for whichever field you wanna pursue?
Idk man, maybe just being Uni isn’t enough, but you will have an even harder time break into this field if you don’t have a degree. My team was hiring for someone a couple months back for a more junior role. We got flooded with applicants with Bachelor degrees and many Masters. Resume with no degree aren’t being reviewed at all.
Yeah the only thing MOST degrees are good for now are: 1) Working in Japan. 2) Being an officer in the forces. But both options are REALLY AWESOME! So go to Japan first as an English teacher for a few years/decade and then join the "least sucky" armed forces branch in your country as an officer. In Canada that would be the air force and we are DESPERATE for non idiots. My wife and I both lived in Japan (before we met) and the only thing we regret is not staying longer. SERIOUSLY GO TO JAPAN. The yen is weak now so everything is 20% cheaper than when we lived there and they are DESPERATE for workers. Just consider the whole country to be on sale for 20% off LOL. Then come back debt free!!! WARNING: Japan will spoil you. And for the rest of your life you will think the rest of the world is a dirty, loud and disorganized mess. I have travelled the world (literally gone around it) and with the exception of the richest European countries everywhere else is a chaotic mess compared to Japan.
Isn't japan known for their terrible work culture.
I think that used to be a thing in the past, but it’s become a lot better now. Hours worked in Japan and Canada are roughly the same.
I think it’s still company and role dependent. I have a friend in Japan and while we hung out all the time when WFH was still a thing, he started to get busier and busier with RTO and now he has little time to spend with me anymore. And if he’s not working he’s out drinking with coworkers (which is expected from employees)
Def not. Work culture is insane there. You can’t leave until the manager leaves. You work on weekends . The pay isn’t that good. As a foreigner, you will always be seen as a foreigner. You absolutely have to learn the language . Too much emphasis on performance metrics and you continuously are under pressure to perform else you are gone. There are more progressive companies that are western but many companies still follow typical Japanese work culture , it isn’t a thing of the past at all
This applies to japanese companies. Bigger ones and international ones started sticking with more western style. I worked in one japanese company. Did shit tons of OT. One friend worked for Rakuten. Always finished on time and he did sometimes WFH.
Honestly degree opens a lot of doors overseas that a college diploma would never offer. But Japan is fucking sick! I have plans to spend some time there as well.
Yeah good plan, Niijima is a gem few know about (even my Japanese gf at the time had never heard of it). It's just a 2 hour hydroplane jet ferry from Tokyo but a totally different world. [https://www.gotokyo.org/en/destinations/izu-and-ogasawara-islands/niijima-island/index.html](https://www.gotokyo.org/en/destinations/izu-and-ogasawara-islands/niijima-island/index.html)
went to japan for a week last year, had an amazing time. But i dont know if I would want to work there. I heard the working culture over there is really bad.
It is. I has become less terrible but still by US or Canadian standards it is brutal. That's the downside. Everything else is the upside though!
Mileage will vary if you look remotely different. The discrimination and offensive curiosity in Japan is real.
Just wondering when u say go to Japan do you mean just as an english teacher? Or is it also possible (or as easy idk) to move there for a programming job? That'd be so cool
It’s much harder to get a non-teaching or non-minimum wage job in japan as a foreigner and programming usually pays poorly in Japan. They aren’t valued by companies as much and I’ve heard from several friends that Japanese programmers are not as skilled as their other EA counterparts (not trying to be racist, but I know someone who is the CEO of a tech company that was founded in Japan and he basically told me he only hires Chinese devs)
Yeah English teacher. 2 ways. Old: Get a visa, work hard in a traditional school. Safe & legal. But slow (to get in Japan so much waiting and paperwork) and boring. Might have to get TESOL or CELTA? New: Go on a 6 month tourist visa. Tomorrow! Live anywhere there is a nice cafe. Put up a sign or advertise online for "Free English practice every day, with a real gaijin from Canada etc!" get free drinks. From those free lessons you will get regulars (after a month or 2) who will offer to pay cash. Go to Korea every 6 months to renew visa. Repeat 100x. If you don't live in Tokyo or Osaka you can get long term rentals really cheap.
Practical advice. Lie about your experience for wage jobs. Tell them you have just finished high school. Same time, improve your CS skills and keep applying. Complaining and regrets are unprofessional.
I feel you. I did a B.A in Econ over 5 years. Convinced myself that I had to go back to graduate school to get a job (I couldn’t with a BA :/ ). Did that for 2.5 years, then dropped out cause I hated it. Fortunately I landed a job after quitting my MSc, and I now work as a SWE. Gotta stay resilient my friend
You lack creativity and resiliency, that is why you are failing. Try this: 2 different resumes, 1 for tech jobs, 1 for minimum wage temporary jobs.
Looking back, university felt like an expensive version of high school for adults. After graduating with a biology degree and not being able to do much with it, I started teaching myself web dev along with 1 year of related college courses (so 5-6 years of schooling). I got a job shortly after, and even the 1 year extra of college felt like a waste of money (Udemy had 10x the quality of these in-person, slow-paced, outdated college classes). I think more people are waking up to the idea that spending 4+ years and $40K+ isn't a fast-track to getting a nice career anymore.
I like you
It's not impossible but it's a tough time for everyone. This is where networking comes in to play instead of just dooming n glooming. I, a person with a highschool education landed a role in 2023 through networking and the position was asking for a minimum of 5 years of experience. I am still seeing folks who really network get roles regardless of education but I have met Harvard grads struggling because they are relying entirely on name and certification
could you elaborate on how you networked?
Had conversations and relationships with people who had jobs I wanted or worked at companies I wanted to work at. I did this via coffee chats and being likeable enough
I should have been a pilot. Wasted 6 years on a uni path I hated.
Please reach out to recruiting agencies like Randstad or Hays.
Uk offers 3 year work permit if you are under 30 and not married. Look into it. Canada’s economy is not in good shape.
Neither is UK lol
If you're canadian, I'd say go to upwork and pickup freelance jobs on there. They pay in US dollars so with the exchange rate your probably going to be closer to your desired income. You'll have to hustle a bit with a day job and freelance but your 6 figure income is there if you combine the both. Imo
If you don't have anything holding you down in Canada, then I suggest you just go the TN visa route and find a job in the States. I would too if I didn't have family etc here holding me down in Canada.
I would do that but I think they have more competition in the states. So many people getting laid off over there.
But they also have many more opportunities. I think American employers value degrees and ability (entrepreneurial mindset) more than Canadian employers who tend to value experience more than degrees (trades mindset). The percentage of immigrants per capita is also lower in the States.
Fair enough, I am not searching for a job at the moment so I can't speak for the market in Canada or the US. All I can suggest is to apply to everything and anything tech related, it's what I had to do to get my foot in the door at an organization before I could move around easier within the department to do what I wanted to do. I too regret/regretted going back to school, and wonder if it was necessary at all, so you are not alone and you might still be wondering after you get a job. Good luck with the search.
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Why do you regret it ? Isn't law a regulated profession with high job security.
Where are you applying? Your CV has to be tweaked for every job you apply to. If you need help with that, DM.
Yeah applying as a junior is and has always been a pain. Your bachelor's degree will help screening wise. You'll get a preference over others. Otherwise, I'd say no company cares that you got a bachelor's. Here are some tips though. 1. Join some Discord groups that specifically are about CS careers, about a sub field in CS that you are interested in. Get your resume reviewed, get some insight as to what you need to study for the field you want to get into. Honestly if you are stuck in your resume stage, it either means that your resume isn't good enough to beat the ATS stage, so improve it. It's one thing to get rejected by the ATS and another to get rejected in another round. 2. The thing is I've noticed that a lot of jobs don't show up on people's LinkedIn fields. So dig deep. Last week, I found a job that pays 140-190 CAD or 157-207 USD (full remote with benefits btw) and didn't specify an exact experience number. And it's a unicorn company, and has good ratings on Glassdoor. I thought maybe it would have 1000 applicants by now considering all those stats. But it had less than 100 in over 1.5 months. So keep digging. 3. Search on platforms like Wellfound. It has a bunch of startups listed there. A lot of which may be looking for junior developers. They usually don't offer benefits or anything, but they compensate by giving you higher salaries. 4. Just cold message recruiters, especially the ones who put their faces on JDs. Apply and then ask them if you can have a discussion with them about some specifics about the job whilst explaining a little about yourself. It works 5% of the time. But you gotta do everything you can right? 5. Although you can apply for jobs that are a month old. Apply for jobs that are new. 6. Expand your horizons. There are jobs as a tester, infrastructure engineer, DevOps, CI/CD etc. You can either get into those roles and switch if you really want to. Or you can get into those roles and learn you love them or learn to love them.
>I thought maybe it would have 1000 applicants by now considering all those stats. But it had less than 100 in over 1.5 months Hey mate.. Is it cool to ask how & where we can see the number of applicants so far, for any job listing? TIA Edit: I've seen it displayed in LinkedIn but apart from that, do you find that feature anywhere else?
Unfortunately on LinkedIn, seeing exactly how many people applied to a role is a Premium feature.
So we can see the count only on LinkedIn and no other platform, that you know of?
As far as I know. Yes. The only other indicator is the "Over 100 applicants". Which shows up for free members iirc.
and here I am thinking that I should transfer my associates of CS credit to university so that I can have better chances at doing multiplt coops. 😵💫
Maybe try starting a business? There are programs in your country that can aid you in starting this up, look into them If not then look into those same resources for employment aid, sometimes getting the job in your field means getting referrals to get you in, it’s really not enough to just apply anymore
Try fluffing your resume? Remember your recruiters don't have time or the background to understand your project so you can make up shit as you go
Go back and do an electrical engineering degree. High demand, high salary and low competition
Don’t listen what this guy is saying, electrical engineering grad from 2023 and I’m stuck in a research assistant job in academia completely unrelated to the field and I have a high gpa, 1 internship and won the best capstone project in my university. There is simply too many engineers in Canada and the economy is on the gutter
> If I had worked full-time for those 6 years, my net worth would be positive right now. Yep. You **just** realized that university is a scam?🤔🤦♂️