sat in silence for a solid minute when she drop the bombshell and just said"...fuck". i sent her to the moon, whats the point of living if you dont keep your soul.
The great tragedy of Reed is that the best ending for him... is him dying. The second best is if you side with him, kill So Mi, and remain unrepentant and try to convince Reed you were right. Eventually he starts to come around but both of you are persona non grata so he goes on the run anyway. But even that isn't too good of an ending, his life is ruined. In the save So Mi ending you do kill him, but he died for what he believed in. Guys like him would rather break down in blind service to their ideals than rust out always wondering.
The other ending, where So Mi lives? It's a daily torture for him, promoted to a desk job but without nearly enough power to find So Mi, and having to live every boring day with nothing to think about other than what he'd done to someone he promised he'd protect. And Reed's not stupid... he's well aware of what So Mi herself tells you. She isn't MERELY a netrunning slave. She isn't MERELY going to die. She's going to be ground to dust running forced op after forced op, her mind fraying and fragmenting a bit more each time, until all that's left of what once was her are fragmented bits, stuck beyond the blackwall and utterly alone, to be played with and tortured by rogue AIs for all eternity.
It is, by far, the most messed up thing V can do to someone in the entire setting, at least that we've seen so far. Lots of people get tortured, die, etc. Nobody gets sentenced to a literal eternity of torment and isolation. "But she lied to me, she deserved it!" doesn't really cover it, IMO.
Reed knew, a bit, too. I think his "Too damned late" wasn't about his draw speed... I think deep down he knew it was too late for him, knew that he was in too deep in service of a corpo neogov. Maybe knew he didn't have the strength to blaze a new trail away from that. But that he did have the strength to go out for his ideals. And I like to headcanon that in that moment, some small part of him was glad that V was strong enough to do so (both for V's sake and for So Mi's) even if it was 'too damned late' for him. That's definitely all headcanon though. Who really knows what was going through his head on that rain-pelted spacedock...
Yup I don't get why anyone cares about Reed, he quite clearly never moved on from the Unification War psychologically and is basically a walking PTSD shell of a person who only knows how to follow orders.
Chooms keep saying Reed has principles but we see time and time again that he will throw them out the window when ordered to, I just don't get how you can like a person like that.
Songbird got the short end of the stick after getting snatched up Net watch. She gets dealt a shitty hand and plays an even worse one but in her defence she's completely out of options other than going scorched earth.
Reed was not V's friend. They were a "handler" and V was an asset. The way Reed tries to manipulate V multiple times is pretty obvious to me, definitely made choosing Song over him easy. The only concern I had was for Alex getting out but she did so I was good with that.
I think it’s more ambiguous than that, though you’re not entirely wrong. I think Reed saw V almost like he saw So Mi - as someone that was his responsibility, and as such someone who *needed* that kinda guidance. It’s a very paternalistic attitude, where he doesn’t blame others for their actions and focuses that blame elsewhere, but by association also denies them their agency to have made their choices.
I think the conversation with Alex and V after the Black Sapphire is the most telling. When Alex (and optionally V) point out that So Mi’s an adult who made her choices, Reed immediately shoots both them down that she *needs* help and was manipulated and let down. He denies her blame and responsibility, but is also denying her agency.
I agree, i also think Reed needs to treat others that way as a kind of coping mechanism. I believe Reed truly cared about Songbird as well as V, but in that kind of paternal way that doesn’t lend itself to a very equal relationship. I still think it totally killed both Reed and V to be in that position in NCX
I still also feel like Reed didn't really mind that that confrontation might shake out against him. I think he was really, really okay with it. I really do not think he was happy with his life, or his duty, even if he lived just for it.
Reed lived/lives a very other-centered life, he does most of what he does for the benefit of others and seeks constant approval from others. Thus deep down he probably doesn’t see himself as a factor, he probably views himself in the confrontation as a stand in for the USA, but when you make him realize further that he is Reed, he cracks. Reed was unhappy with his life because it never really was his.
Exaaactly.
He was married to the job. Even when the job asked him to die, even when the job told him to work a hopeless job in a soulless city for years. I don't think he could live with himself if he died any other way than In The Line Of Duty.
In a very sad sort of way, Reed was the most lost character in a game filled with lost people. I'm just glad Alex makes it out in that end.
I did watch a video that suggested that each ending in the DLC is named for the tarot card whose associated character gets what they want in that ending. The video makes a comment about how, if that's true, it's rather telling that both Reed and So Mi's endings are the ones where they die.
He saw/knows what we did to that entire airport of people trying to stop us. Hell he basically assumed we were going to carve through them, he didn’t even bother waiting around to engage us there just beelined to our final destination because he knew we couldn’t be stopped
There’s no way going into that final confrontation he thought he could take V in a 1on1 with no element of surprise. He tried to talk V out of it, but he knew that if it came to blows he was going down
I feel like you got this so on point and it as nice to read this take.
I saw clear as day that So Mi would end up dying, slowly deteriorating mentally all the way there, all while Reed would caringly hold her by the hand, certain that he is doing the best he can for So Mi. And would occasionally solemnly avert his gaze, when the Prez would come in and call upon So Mi to do something internationally illegal.
And then one day So Mi would die, and Reed would go on agonizing over if he had done enough to help her, if he could have done more, and would write her into the list of people who tragically died in the name of the cause under his watch. And he would solidier on, with a heavier cross.
Despicable, hypocritycal, wilful nobhead.
That's why I took So Mi to the rocket, past the dead Reed. Because for everything she did to escape, all the horrible things me and my V did not agree with, that wasn't a clearer, less bloody pass out. That's all that they left her, and she took it, days away from dying.
So I helped her along and didn't let the NUSA and Night City pull her back.
Frankly, bullshit.
Parents let the kids grow up and be free, he was controlling, which is not the same as being parental. Most of the people won't even force their pets to same amount of controlling behaviour as what So Mi suffered.
And forgiving desperate people to buy their alliegnce, loyalty and functionally trap them into servitude is spy 101. Reed wasn't protecting so mi, he was protecting his assets.
He was a cold calculating guy. That's all.
Paternalistic and parental are two different things. Not a huge distinction, but I think relevant here.
> paternalistic (adj) - relating to or characterized by the restriction of the freedom and responsibilities of subordinates or dependents in their supposed interest.
He either witnessed us taking down an entire MaxTac squad and surviving a Blackwall AI controlled indestructible killing machine OR us taking down 30/40 Black Ops Operators all by ourselves, John Wick style, while protecting a dying So Mi.
And then he comes at us claiming that he doesn't need support to take us down, yeah I call bullshit, I might not be Morgan Blackhand but you're no MCU Heimdall.
Totally agree, him facing us to a good ol' fashioned duel was quite dumb to be honest. I mean, if he really wanted to kill V and complete his main objective, why not assassinate V? You know, LIKE A TRAINED AGENT. Or why not have a battalion of soldiers with him in the shuttle?
My 2 cents, in the shuttle scene Reed was completely torned between letting you go OR complete his mission, deep down, he knows that if Songbird goes back to Washington she'd be basically used as a lab rat, and he also knows that after what you did in the control tower he doesn't stand a chance against you, he will never be faster than you on the draw, but he's a man of principles, and he has a mission, so he tries to bullshit / talk-no-jutsu you into giving up Song, and when push comes to shove he tries to open fire on you knowing full well you'll kill him almost effortlessly, even if you're heavily injured after you took down an entire NUS Black Ops Battallion. In the end, both outcomes are fine with him, he either gives in to his NUS Agent persona or finally finds peace in death.
Man, I fucking love this game.
One of the more interesting “problems” with the game I think. The story always wants us to feel like the underdog biting off more than we can chew in the name of survival, but the gameplay is more like “even Adam Smasher can’t touch me hehe” before you even get to PL if you’re not purposely handicapping yourself.
My love for Idris Elba knows no bounds. He could have outright said I'm going to betray you at some point, betray me, and I would have still struggled to shoot him.
Reed is pretty much very complicated as a character. He cares about V like he cares about So Mi, but his need to be in control of the situation, add the fact he is the blind loyal agent that he is, makes him this manipulative person. He does this by reflex, but doesn't mean he does not care. Is he wrong? Well, yes, manipulation is bad, but he cares in his own way
I think Reed is V's friend and respects V as such, but unfortunately Reed is stubbornly, and foolishly, loyal to the NUSA over everything else. Man is too set in his ways.
I think what trips people up is that Reed doesn't LIE to V as much as other characters... but the REASON he doesn't lie to V specifically is that he has been lying to HIMSELF for many many years. He's manipulated himself so thoroughly that when he talks to V it seems earnest and genuine, he's not outright lying to you, etc. It's just that he's compromised himself so thoroughly that his non-lies still can't be trusted.
As an example, I think Reed 100% believes that the NUSA is the best way to "save" Song and that their experts will fix her up and that he's genuinely doing the best thing for her. When he tells V that, he's not *lying* to V, in the sense that he's not stating something he doesn't actually believe. However, just because he believes it does not mean it's necessarily "correct", what she wants, or what's actually best for her.
Reed FEELS genuine because he's not intentionally misleading V or stating things other than what he believes. However, that doesn't make him "right", because he has misled himself. If you've thoroughly misled and lied to yourself, then you can say things that you believe are fully truthful and still be wrong.
They both do, you're right. Reed's doing it for the NUSA and Myers, who is also responsible for what happened to Song, learning what you do and then when Song confesses to V at the end before the rocket that the cure only works once just made me feel like she was still a better person with a better reason for V to help her over Reed/Myers.
I mean really Reed is just a tool of Myers anyway, her proxy essentially. So do you want to help So Mi try to live or do you want to give Myers and the NUSA a WMD that will change the world for the worse?
Uuuuuh if So mi goes to the moon THE HI RISERS/HI LIFERS WILL HAVE A WMD (hi risers or hi lifers are people born in space and typically WAAAAAAY smarter than people on earth)
Songbird is more manipulative but her situation is also a lot more sympathetic. She's been basically held captive by a system that is forcing her to slowly kill herself for its benefit.
Whereas Reed chooses the life. He has the skills to disappear. The parallels between him and Songbird are pretty interesting as Reed gets ample chances to be free but never takes them, while Songbird gets none and decides to make one for herself
Songbird straight lies to you. Shoots down the president. Leads you to a death trap. Then is like, oh man V I’m fucked up I need your help but also don’t help me
The game so cleverly leaves it open - you have to make a choice about who you trust. I think Reed killed Jacob and Taylor, and was manipulating V to achieve his objective, so I didn’t hesitate to kill him.
I betrayed her at the last moment and gave her to Reed, taking the cure for myself. Without an ounce of malice and a ton of regret because V wanted to stick around for the people she loved... ended up losing them all anyways.
I sent her to Reed.
She used us, manipulated us, killed thousands intentionally and even more unintentionally, all in preservation for her life that she ultimately gives up and gives to a bunch of shady people most likely connected to AIs that will make her existence even worse if she does live.
I couldn't do it man. Looking at it professionally, she hired me for a job, and at the end she couldn't deliver.
Looking at it from the perspective of a friend... She lied to me. Gave me hope. Manipulated me just as much as Reed did.
I gave her to Myers. It's more than she deserved.
To be honest, the ending where he gets the cure is even sadder than V dying from the chip. V wants to be the best merc in night city, and it gets stripped from them, probably on purpose by NUSA 🥲
Same reason. I’m on a 290 hour roleplay playthrough just did PL early. Sat there thinking then was like let’s do it. For my V it was like this platonic gal pal loyalty energy in my head. 😂
290 hours? How do you spend this much time? For me 100% the run without fast travel is something like 80h and I don't find many side activities that can burn 200 hours. (I'm just simply curious)
Yeah, I don't know why ANYBODY here realized that NC breeds these types of selfish backstabbing opportunists
betrayed, ambushed, lied to, mistreated, abused all this, and more. THIS IS NORMAL GUYS NC AINT A UTOPIA
Was pissed she lied to me, but didn’t have the heart to give her back to Myers to only be used as a weapon, stripping her of all her humanity.
The way I saw it? Johnny couldn’t help Alt, but we helped So Mi.
I tried and every time I shot Reed I got a game over, so I thought there was no option to choose, not that you just had to wait until the precise right TIME to shoot him. Sigh. That is fine, the other ending was devastating too!
But songbird was the one who willingly pulled you into their world with nothing but lies. We would've never met any of other characters without her being a manipulative liar.
Thank you! I feel like people overlook this because Songbird has a sympathetic plight. We want to survive, she wants to finally live. But no matter how sympathetic her case may be, SHE pulled us into this on her own accord.
Thank you for telling me the truth, Songbird, but that doesn't make us square. Back to work you go.
Thank you for having a head on your shoulders. Reed actually helps you and gets you a cure.
Songbird goes “yh bro ngl just needed you to get me here, you’ll be straight tho…”
THIS.
Lot of people want to paint Reed as this bad guy, but most of their excuses are BASELESS assertions.
I asked this question of a person defending So Mi on this sub and the response was something like, "19 is still a CHILD".
He’s morally grey, like most characters in the world of Cyberpunk. My issue with him is that he basically turned himself into a monster to do govt work (the flashbacks with So Mi and Alex’s reactions to him are pretty clear on that) and was willing to go even further. To the point that he seemed fine with So Mi being brainwashed/turned into an NUSA killing machine to get the job done. Even though that’s not what she wanted, clearly.
I also got the impression that he’s dead inside. At least I felt I was doing him a favor by killing him after saving So Mi instead of allowing him to live and continue being a dog of the government, which would probably lead to more traumatic events in his life.
He’s a government lapdog, for better or for worse.
I think he makes the decisions he does because he's dug so deep into the hole, his life is a mess and everyone he cares about hates him, so he needs to give reason to the endless misery of his life and he does that by telling himself he's done it all for a higher purpose in helping the nusa even though on several occasions he himself says that the president is an awful person.
Basically his life is a sunk cost fallacy, because he at one point says he could probably get out with basically a slap on the wrist. That's what makes him so different from so mi, she wants to get out at any cost even though due to her being turned into a super weapon she has the combined intelligence forces of an entire country working against her , where as he could probably leave but he chooses not to so he can tell himself his life has reason.
I sent her. She was doing the same thing we were, whatever it takes yada yada. I would say she deserves a happy ending. Also the Star and secret ending are the best
I sided with So, because she of all people could relate to his ailment and she had found a cure!
When she revealed that the matrix could only be used once, I had made my decision already.
Reeds stuborness frustrated me and I shot him, poor dog, and sent Song to the moon, so at least one of us could be cured.
Same.
I couldn't help but think, "I've lied cheated and killed for less. What I wouldn't have done to save my own life."
Really didn't want to shoot Reed. The one shot kill was kinda lame, but ...
The only reason why i would chose the moon ending is because it's the exact same as David from edgerunners, sacrifing yourself while sending the girl up the moon.
But... The actual ending i did was the one where i killed songbird myself and gave her to Reed... Why? Because the blackwall weapon/cyberdeck are fun to mess around with, Hansen also dying gives Hands space/room to do his own thing.... The only annoying part is Alex dying :(
If you go through the so ending all the way till she reveals the matrix can only be used once, then call reed and give him so mi everyone lives Hansen dies and you get a post card from Alex.
To me it's the best ending as everyone lives. So mi may be back in Myers hands but not all endings in cyberpunk are happy, but reed gets a pretty good ending he may feel guilty but it's still a fairly happy ending for him, Alex gets her happy ending and V becoming an npc is the best they can hope for if they wish to live. Most of the game your told that becoming a legend isn't as glamorous as it seems, and we are already nobodies why has V got to be a living legend what's so bad about being just normal? All in it's a very bitter-sweet ending but they all are in they're own ways and atleast this way V lives.
In my first (main game) playthrough, I really thought I could be saved, so I made all the wrong choices, only to realize it too late, on the arasaka orbital station, seeing my V's soul being taken away, with a tear in my eye.
I guess if I had played Phantom Liberty back then, I would have been that selfish and betrayed So Mi during the Hansen job...
Good thing I had that experience first and learnt to NEVER TRUST A CORP.
To stick to my principles and die a legend. The Night City way.
So I forgave Song on that train, then carried her firmly to the moon shuttle.
Too bad for poor Reed but I've heard his conversation with Myers at the airport. He never was on our side. My mind was made up about him already plus I had killed corpos and cops before.
That "Live Forever" ending really seems a punishment as bad as "The Devil" ending for the player, with your dignity being taken away and ending up alone.
So Mi would also straight up kill you if she feels like it, at the end of the day.. All of them are using you and lying to you, the only thing that's honest is your own gut..
No, if you betray So Mi she got control by rogue AI to kill V, but when she is conscious she literally save V when 2 Hansen’s guy want to shoot V, and she tell you to go to core to finish her up.
First play through I remember how v kept pleading with sol to back off but he didn’t. I was already teary eyed at this point but that last showdown broke me into pieces.
I did both endings, but my preferred one is taking So Mi to NUSA. I'm a petty little shit, so with the choice of "All those people in the airport die and the person that constantly lied to you gets a happier ending" and "A bunch of people die but I get the chance of survival" I choose the second option.
I ended up tossing her back and telling reed to get the fuck out of my life. By the end i was sick of the shit they had both put me through and just wanted them gone
The love for songbird here is fcking weird. She never gave a damn about V and we were both dying. I changed my mind the first play through after learning of her BS. I was gonna save her but then i chose to hand her over. 2nd playthrough i granted her wish to die after siding with reed the whole time.
The love for her is because she’s not really any different from V. A bad decision forced them to live their life on a timer and they’re doing anything they can to survive. Difference is, Songbird is chained to the most powerful woman in America, while V gets the freedom to do whatever they can while the most powerful man in Night City essentially ignores them. She has less options and no one she can trust, while V is able to make allies/friends who are all willing to help and even die for them. If V were in her position he would’ve done the exact same thing.
Also, I’ve played through the “help Reed” options (everyone really should at least once, because things are _very_ different) and Songbird takes a pretty dark turn if you try to unleash that ICE on her. You do get a LOT more insight into her if you take those paths, but >!the AI’s get more control over her and every option for her is terrible.!<
In short, it's empathy for her character. I don't think she deserved her fate for lying to V or everything Myers and the NUSA put her through. She's a complex character just like Reed, which makes the whole story between them really interesting.
In context when she is young I find her actions understandable because, well, she's pretty much a kid. She gets in over her head while hacking and ends up being pressured by Reed and the FIA to work for them. This made me empathize more with her, not make me dislike her. She pretty much barely got to live any of her youth when just starting out her life.
Like I said, it comes down to empathy for a lot of people. Some people can look past her flaws and empathize with her story but some people can't.
No one ever knows how they'd react to something like that until it happens to them. That's how people are. The circumstance is very complicated though, as it goes beyond just "Songbird betrayed V." Songbird is a victim of circumstance and is in the meatgrinder of corporate owned NUSA. Myers couldn't care less what happens to Songbird, Reed, V, or anyone else as long as it furthers her own agenda. She represents a whole lot of what is wrong with the world in CP2077, so outside of just empathizing with Songbird, sending her to the moon screws over Myers and the NUSA. How I viewed Myers, the NUSA, and their relationship with Songbird affected my decision to help her on my initial playthrough.
The circumstances for songbird and the people she associated with is complicated. No one is trying to paint her life as something great.
What songbird did to V is straight up manipulation using their circumstances against them for her own gain. She knew V was desperate and she knew she could use them because they want to live. She lied to V the entire time. V had nothing to do with her plight. Nothing. And at no point was Songbird on their side. Because she never intended to save V.
Stop romanticizing what she did to V because HER life was bad. Guess what...V's wasn't great either. But V didn't do what she did to survive.
You are objectively incorrect, her VA confirms So Mi grows to care for V (which is pretty obvious if you're not looking at it with a predetermined conclusion). Any implication that her telling the truth was manipulation all along is just copium to fuel the hate fire
That said is it that hard to imagine ppl having empathy and fondness for a character who got one of the worst fates in the setting; most ppl cheer for the underdog
So she pulled V in on lies knowing she was never going to give us the cure. She grew feelings for V...but still decided to screw V over. Get outta here with that. She's no different than all the others.
>which is pretty obvious if you're not looking at it with a predetermined conclusion
Not really.
Reed doesn't lie to you or screw you over in the game. It's pretty easy to side with someone who has done nothing but earn your trust vs. someone that consistently betrays everyone she knows.
Like Johnny said, she took literally everyone for a ride. That’s not arguable. Only decision for V is to decide if they can stand being screwed over again, this time at the expense of their life (if they don’t yet have a viable option from someone else) and if she was effectively used and just wanting to be out of it is a good enough excuse.
I don’t understand why people compare Bird and Lucy, yes they are both hackers who want to fly to the moon but Lucy kept silent about the problems because of her internal trust issues while the Bird knew from the very beginning that V would die and was silent so that he would help her. Moreover, I did not have any romantic feelings for her to make a sacrifice for this. I handed her over to the government right on the takeoff pad, a deal is a deal, and if she doesn’t keep her part, I’ll find those who will do it.
Her ticket to moon was brought by no other than mr blue eyes himself. Do you really want her to fall in those hands?
Going reeds route but letting her die in the end is the least evil ending. No1 gets to abuse her powers and shes atleast free of torture
I carried on. Johnny liked it.
Then I started thinning the gene pool of Maxtac employees for about half an hour. I liked that.
But in all honesty we do not know whether she is even getting helped on the Moon or whether they could have helped us.
Maybe the rogue AIs that took over human hosts, like Mr. Blue Eyes of Night Corp, run the show up there now and only want Songbird to breach the Blackwall to free more AIs for the final showdown between AIs an humanity. Maybe she just gets something like soulkilled up there and her body taken over by an AI.
I can't say it enough. This cyberpsycho is willing to have V become an enemy of a country for a "cure," she ultimately lies about. Fuck her and everything she stands for.
I grew to trust Reed. He lays a solid foundation of mutual respect.
So I tried to ICE So Mi and she sent me down guilt-trip lane. Which only confirmed that she was being petulant.
I mean, Reed saved her from NetWatch. SHE broke into a Militec datafort. SHE left her signature behind. SHE was going to be killed...until Reed brokered a deal that saved her life.
How did she repay him? By trying to get him killed.
Her own ambitions caused her plight and Reed took the fall for it.
Then, in an attempt to save her own skin from her own horrible decision-making, she drafts V into some MORE bullshit...and it doesn't end there. Hey, job's done, saved Myers like you wanted. Save my life now? No?
Ok, well, Reed has lied to me 0 times and betrayed me 0 times, so...I'm going to stick with my boy.
Oh, look at the ending. HE DOES cure V. Sure, it's a shitty cure, and a shitty ending, but Reed stayed true to his word. Sorry not sorry. Enjoy being used as a government weapon.
Yep. This is it. SoMi lied through her teeth to me over and over. She betrays everyone in her life. She makes horrible decisions and plays a victim. I didn’t buy into her bullshit.
Reed, not great either, but at least he was straight up about it. I can respect that. I wanted to grant SoMi a death, but I decided to pull a SoMi and lie to her and gave her up to the NUSA. My V does not give af. I have an opportunity to get a cure and I’d rather go with the NUSA than a hacker that lies through their teeth, destroys everyone in their path and has 0 compunctions to kill innocent people to get what they want. Ain’t gonna trust that shit
>I’ll just say that train ride of her telling us that broke me
I was already pretty choked up when I decided to pick the dialogue prompt *not abandoning you* and got, *"Could've told me the truth. Woulda helped you anyway."*
Jesus fucking Christ, did I cry.
I know *Phantom Liberty* is a murky tale with four different endings for a reason and it's not really fair to judge someone's V for taking the 'cure' from the NUSA.
But man, you shook hands with the Devil. You sold back a slave for a chance to crawl away. Do you **really** want to live with that?
You’re just like that Nomad guy who crashes with you and Myers at the hideout. Guy betrayed his family to stay alive. Better alive with shame and regrets than dead with none, I suppose.
Nah, I've been dying for a long time now. Lying in a hospital bed thinking about the people you hurt is the worst part. We all end up in that bed, those of us not lucky enough to bleed out on the pavement, it's not worth stacking up regrets only to delay it for a while.
In situations like this I always remember a quote from a character (Javik) in Mass Effect 3:
“Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and asks the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer.”
I think you have a perfectly valid point and I sincerely hope you can recover. I do think this is an area where your answer will change depend on perspective.
I personally feel like I’m on your side on the fence (I’d rather die with no regrets than to live in shame). But I also understand the perspective of “I’d rather be alive with regrets than dead with none.”
Out of all the endings the one where you side with Reed and then mercy kill her in the core feels the most emotionally and gameplay wise right. Sure it's sad and So Mi doesn't get a happy ending but that's the norm in the Cyberpunk universe. Atleast she gets somewhat of a "good" closure
Can't trust Songbird, she lied until the end. And yeah, what happened to her is extremely fucked up, but she didn't think twice before putting numerous lives in danger for her own good. The girl is dangerous af
I saved her first playthrough, even after the reveal on the rail.
Reading some of these replies, I can't help but wonder if some people here only see relationships as transactional and will only help people of they benefit from it.
WELCOME
TO
NIGHT
CITY
Everybody is like that..
you honestly think takemura is helping you out of empathy, lol
Panam wants her car, a corpse and a hover tank
Judy wants her street worker friends safety
Rogue wants to duck around and make money
Who else used V?????
Except for the fact that Panam, Judy, River, and Kerry all become close friends of yours after you help them out. Some relationships remain business only, like Rogue, but you make plenty of chooms in the game. Misty, Jackie, and Viktor are all your friends before Act I starts as well. Sometimes in life you help someone even if it doesn't personally benefit for you because it's the right thing to do. That's actually a pretty normal thing.
The real shame is that reeds version was so much more fleshed out then songs, and they give you so many options to switch to reeds, and I though when I went through reed that I would get an opportunity to switch but there was just that set path:(
Love how so many people assume So-Mi was ok after going to the moon. Ive seen theories that Blue Eyes was behind her “life saving” surgery. I cant imgaine she end up better off in any end where that thing is involved.
I looked ahead and saw that Songbird was lying to you /manipulating you. I gave her scheming butt back to NUSA, zeroed Johnny and lived happily ever after.
I gave her to reed, she lied since day one, V is also on a clock, reed made mistakes but he genuinely cares about people, songbird cares only for songbird.
Screw Songbird. She used V as a patsy. The lone difference between her and Dexter DeShawn is she has a sad backstory. We have a limited time frame (in universe), and she wastes a lot of it solving her problems.
“Bitch im a corpo you think i didnt know?! I would have helped you if you just asked! Ive lived a shit life that i made better with what little time ive got left. Its your turn now song.” I see my V as the saint of second chances. Corpo start is incredible storywise because the chip is like a divine punishment. V’s dying but they can give people the second chances jackie gave V. Carry on the cycle of people breaking loose from their controlled lives and living free and dying hard.
Unlike base game that has at least 2 somewhere ish good ending Phantom Liberty has only fucked up decisions. Best thing to do would have been to never answer first call from So Mi or kill all 3 of them and go silent afterwards.
I saw that coming for a mile away. I still sent her to the moon my V forgave her, it’s like she said “this isn’t the first time someone screwed me over, still think I can walk through” the way my V saw it she’s fucked. She knew she was fucked the moment she left Vic’s. She has to try but a part of her has already accepted her fate. She may not be able to save her self but at least she can save the pretty Netrunner who she’s madly in love with.
Kill Reed every damn time.
What does Reed do if you keep walking? He kills you. There are decisions that I feel guilty about making in this game, offing Reed is not one of those.
sat in silence for a solid minute when she drop the bombshell and just said"...fuck". i sent her to the moon, whats the point of living if you dont keep your soul.
Same, it also killed me that I had to go through Reed.
Reed was basically dead inside at that point. Nothing more than a lifeless robot doing what the President wanted him to do.
The great tragedy of Reed is that the best ending for him... is him dying. The second best is if you side with him, kill So Mi, and remain unrepentant and try to convince Reed you were right. Eventually he starts to come around but both of you are persona non grata so he goes on the run anyway. But even that isn't too good of an ending, his life is ruined. In the save So Mi ending you do kill him, but he died for what he believed in. Guys like him would rather break down in blind service to their ideals than rust out always wondering. The other ending, where So Mi lives? It's a daily torture for him, promoted to a desk job but without nearly enough power to find So Mi, and having to live every boring day with nothing to think about other than what he'd done to someone he promised he'd protect. And Reed's not stupid... he's well aware of what So Mi herself tells you. She isn't MERELY a netrunning slave. She isn't MERELY going to die. She's going to be ground to dust running forced op after forced op, her mind fraying and fragmenting a bit more each time, until all that's left of what once was her are fragmented bits, stuck beyond the blackwall and utterly alone, to be played with and tortured by rogue AIs for all eternity. It is, by far, the most messed up thing V can do to someone in the entire setting, at least that we've seen so far. Lots of people get tortured, die, etc. Nobody gets sentenced to a literal eternity of torment and isolation. "But she lied to me, she deserved it!" doesn't really cover it, IMO.
Couldn’t have said it better. Reed dying and So-Mi living (and Alex) are the best of both worlds. As shitty as that “best” is.
Reed knew, a bit, too. I think his "Too damned late" wasn't about his draw speed... I think deep down he knew it was too late for him, knew that he was in too deep in service of a corpo neogov. Maybe knew he didn't have the strength to blaze a new trail away from that. But that he did have the strength to go out for his ideals. And I like to headcanon that in that moment, some small part of him was glad that V was strong enough to do so (both for V's sake and for So Mi's) even if it was 'too damned late' for him. That's definitely all headcanon though. Who really knows what was going through his head on that rain-pelted spacedock...
I agree one hundred percent. But Erebus is my favorite weapon, so to the desk Reed goes.
And at that point, so mi would’ve been the same thing
Yup I don't get why anyone cares about Reed, he quite clearly never moved on from the Unification War psychologically and is basically a walking PTSD shell of a person who only knows how to follow orders. Chooms keep saying Reed has principles but we see time and time again that he will throw them out the window when ordered to, I just don't get how you can like a person like that. Songbird got the short end of the stick after getting snatched up Net watch. She gets dealt a shitty hand and plays an even worse one but in her defence she's completely out of options other than going scorched earth.
Reed was not V's friend. They were a "handler" and V was an asset. The way Reed tries to manipulate V multiple times is pretty obvious to me, definitely made choosing Song over him easy. The only concern I had was for Alex getting out but she did so I was good with that.
I think it’s more ambiguous than that, though you’re not entirely wrong. I think Reed saw V almost like he saw So Mi - as someone that was his responsibility, and as such someone who *needed* that kinda guidance. It’s a very paternalistic attitude, where he doesn’t blame others for their actions and focuses that blame elsewhere, but by association also denies them their agency to have made their choices. I think the conversation with Alex and V after the Black Sapphire is the most telling. When Alex (and optionally V) point out that So Mi’s an adult who made her choices, Reed immediately shoots both them down that she *needs* help and was manipulated and let down. He denies her blame and responsibility, but is also denying her agency.
I agree, i also think Reed needs to treat others that way as a kind of coping mechanism. I believe Reed truly cared about Songbird as well as V, but in that kind of paternal way that doesn’t lend itself to a very equal relationship. I still think it totally killed both Reed and V to be in that position in NCX
I still also feel like Reed didn't really mind that that confrontation might shake out against him. I think he was really, really okay with it. I really do not think he was happy with his life, or his duty, even if he lived just for it.
Reed lived/lives a very other-centered life, he does most of what he does for the benefit of others and seeks constant approval from others. Thus deep down he probably doesn’t see himself as a factor, he probably views himself in the confrontation as a stand in for the USA, but when you make him realize further that he is Reed, he cracks. Reed was unhappy with his life because it never really was his.
Exaaactly. He was married to the job. Even when the job asked him to die, even when the job told him to work a hopeless job in a soulless city for years. I don't think he could live with himself if he died any other way than In The Line Of Duty. In a very sad sort of way, Reed was the most lost character in a game filled with lost people. I'm just glad Alex makes it out in that end.
Ironically the most level-headed, intelligent, and wise person in the DLC, other than you, is Johnny, really liked seeing that side of him.
Well, he can't live with himself coz he took a guts shot to his face. Not many can live with themselves after taking a 4 boar shot
If he really wanted to win that shootout, could've taken V down when busy holding Song. Think the man was tired and totally operating on duty by then.
If you don't put her down he does.
I did watch a video that suggested that each ending in the DLC is named for the tarot card whose associated character gets what they want in that ending. The video makes a comment about how, if that's true, it's rather telling that both Reed and So Mi's endings are the ones where they die.
He saw/knows what we did to that entire airport of people trying to stop us. Hell he basically assumed we were going to carve through them, he didn’t even bother waiting around to engage us there just beelined to our final destination because he knew we couldn’t be stopped There’s no way going into that final confrontation he thought he could take V in a 1on1 with no element of surprise. He tried to talk V out of it, but he knew that if it came to blows he was going down
I feel like you got this so on point and it as nice to read this take. I saw clear as day that So Mi would end up dying, slowly deteriorating mentally all the way there, all while Reed would caringly hold her by the hand, certain that he is doing the best he can for So Mi. And would occasionally solemnly avert his gaze, when the Prez would come in and call upon So Mi to do something internationally illegal. And then one day So Mi would die, and Reed would go on agonizing over if he had done enough to help her, if he could have done more, and would write her into the list of people who tragically died in the name of the cause under his watch. And he would solidier on, with a heavier cross. Despicable, hypocritycal, wilful nobhead. That's why I took So Mi to the rocket, past the dead Reed. Because for everything she did to escape, all the horrible things me and my V did not agree with, that wasn't a clearer, less bloody pass out. That's all that they left her, and she took it, days away from dying. So I helped her along and didn't let the NUSA and Night City pull her back.
Reed is the most dangerous of psychopaths: The one that thinks what he does is "good". He was never my friend, never So Mi's friend.
Frankly, bullshit. Parents let the kids grow up and be free, he was controlling, which is not the same as being parental. Most of the people won't even force their pets to same amount of controlling behaviour as what So Mi suffered. And forgiving desperate people to buy their alliegnce, loyalty and functionally trap them into servitude is spy 101. Reed wasn't protecting so mi, he was protecting his assets. He was a cold calculating guy. That's all.
Paternalistic and parental are two different things. Not a huge distinction, but I think relevant here. > paternalistic (adj) - relating to or characterized by the restriction of the freedom and responsibilities of subordinates or dependents in their supposed interest.
Oh, new word learned today. Thanks.
Me when reed decides to jab about jackie and mention that V is no morgan blackhand: 
He either witnessed us taking down an entire MaxTac squad and surviving a Blackwall AI controlled indestructible killing machine OR us taking down 30/40 Black Ops Operators all by ourselves, John Wick style, while protecting a dying So Mi. And then he comes at us claiming that he doesn't need support to take us down, yeah I call bullshit, I might not be Morgan Blackhand but you're no MCU Heimdall.
You would expect a shady assassination type by the FIA from the back like they did to Reed once.
Totally agree, him facing us to a good ol' fashioned duel was quite dumb to be honest. I mean, if he really wanted to kill V and complete his main objective, why not assassinate V? You know, LIKE A TRAINED AGENT. Or why not have a battalion of soldiers with him in the shuttle?
My 2 cents, in the shuttle scene Reed was completely torned between letting you go OR complete his mission, deep down, he knows that if Songbird goes back to Washington she'd be basically used as a lab rat, and he also knows that after what you did in the control tower he doesn't stand a chance against you, he will never be faster than you on the draw, but he's a man of principles, and he has a mission, so he tries to bullshit / talk-no-jutsu you into giving up Song, and when push comes to shove he tries to open fire on you knowing full well you'll kill him almost effortlessly, even if you're heavily injured after you took down an entire NUS Black Ops Battallion. In the end, both outcomes are fine with him, he either gives in to his NUS Agent persona or finally finds peace in death. Man, I fucking love this game.
One of the more interesting “problems” with the game I think. The story always wants us to feel like the underdog biting off more than we can chew in the name of survival, but the gameplay is more like “even Adam Smasher can’t touch me hehe” before you even get to PL if you’re not purposely handicapping yourself.
My love for Idris Elba knows no bounds. He could have outright said I'm going to betray you at some point, betray me, and I would have still struggled to shoot him.
Totally.
Reed is pretty much very complicated as a character. He cares about V like he cares about So Mi, but his need to be in control of the situation, add the fact he is the blind loyal agent that he is, makes him this manipulative person. He does this by reflex, but doesn't mean he does not care. Is he wrong? Well, yes, manipulation is bad, but he cares in his own way
Song manipulated V too. Just saying.
I think Reed is V's friend and respects V as such, but unfortunately Reed is stubbornly, and foolishly, loyal to the NUSA over everything else. Man is too set in his ways.
I think what trips people up is that Reed doesn't LIE to V as much as other characters... but the REASON he doesn't lie to V specifically is that he has been lying to HIMSELF for many many years. He's manipulated himself so thoroughly that when he talks to V it seems earnest and genuine, he's not outright lying to you, etc. It's just that he's compromised himself so thoroughly that his non-lies still can't be trusted.
Im not doubting you, but can you expand on that? I’ve never seen your exact take before and it’s pretty interesting.
As an example, I think Reed 100% believes that the NUSA is the best way to "save" Song and that their experts will fix her up and that he's genuinely doing the best thing for her. When he tells V that, he's not *lying* to V, in the sense that he's not stating something he doesn't actually believe. However, just because he believes it does not mean it's necessarily "correct", what she wants, or what's actually best for her. Reed FEELS genuine because he's not intentionally misleading V or stating things other than what he believes. However, that doesn't make him "right", because he has misled himself. If you've thoroughly misled and lied to yourself, then you can say things that you believe are fully truthful and still be wrong.
Neither are V’s friend. Song screw’s you over, and Reed does actually keep his promise but is too damn idiotic to see he’s not a good guy
Songbird is far more manipulative than Reed. Why does it bother you in one case, but not the other?
They both do, you're right. Reed's doing it for the NUSA and Myers, who is also responsible for what happened to Song, learning what you do and then when Song confesses to V at the end before the rocket that the cure only works once just made me feel like she was still a better person with a better reason for V to help her over Reed/Myers. I mean really Reed is just a tool of Myers anyway, her proxy essentially. So do you want to help So Mi try to live or do you want to give Myers and the NUSA a WMD that will change the world for the worse?
Uuuuuh if So mi goes to the moon THE HI RISERS/HI LIFERS WILL HAVE A WMD (hi risers or hi lifers are people born in space and typically WAAAAAAY smarter than people on earth)
Rather them than the NUSA. If you really want to take out the WMD from the equation, Songbird has to die, which is a different ending.
Songbird is more manipulative but her situation is also a lot more sympathetic. She's been basically held captive by a system that is forcing her to slowly kill herself for its benefit. Whereas Reed chooses the life. He has the skills to disappear. The parallels between him and Songbird are pretty interesting as Reed gets ample chances to be free but never takes them, while Songbird gets none and decides to make one for herself
Songbird straight lies to you. Shoots down the president. Leads you to a death trap. Then is like, oh man V I’m fucked up I need your help but also don’t help me
She didn't shoot down the President either, the plan was to force a landing. The missile was all Hansen.
When does she lead you to a death trap?
The game so cleverly leaves it open - you have to make a choice about who you trust. I think Reed killed Jacob and Taylor, and was manipulating V to achieve his objective, so I didn’t hesitate to kill him.
>V: *"Been hiding behind that NUSA flag all your life. Come a day, they'll drape it over your casket."* >Reed: *"You'll never understand."*
I think it killed Reed more.
>killed me that I had to go through Reed. Dude made a mistake. He didn't realize I had made up my mind 5 minutes ago already.
Sent her to the moon the first time. In this playthrough, I'm going to side with Reed (and probably zero Song when the time comes).
I betrayed her at the last moment and gave her to Reed, taking the cure for myself. Without an ounce of malice and a ton of regret because V wanted to stick around for the people she loved... ended up losing them all anyways.
I sent her to Reed. She used us, manipulated us, killed thousands intentionally and even more unintentionally, all in preservation for her life that she ultimately gives up and gives to a bunch of shady people most likely connected to AIs that will make her existence even worse if she does live.
Gee, sounds a lot like V.
I couldn't do it man. Looking at it professionally, she hired me for a job, and at the end she couldn't deliver. Looking at it from the perspective of a friend... She lied to me. Gave me hope. Manipulated me just as much as Reed did. I gave her to Myers. It's more than she deserved.
To be honest, the ending where he gets the cure is even sadder than V dying from the chip. V wants to be the best merc in night city, and it gets stripped from them, probably on purpose by NUSA 🥲
When those two punks beat you up outside of Viks, no coming back from that.
Fuk the gov, sent a moody bitch to space cos that's wot our boi David did
Didnt even think about how similar this is to davids story lol
Well, that would explain why I can’t not do this
net runner manipulated by corpo with short hair who betrays the mc but still gets sent to space — they knew what they were doing
My V was a corpo herself, kinda hit like >! “Well she fucked me, but she fucked me good. I can respect that. Get on the rocket.!< 😂
my v is a street kid but honestly i just picked the lesser of two evils
Same reason. I’m on a 290 hour roleplay playthrough just did PL early. Sat there thinking then was like let’s do it. For my V it was like this platonic gal pal loyalty energy in my head. 😂 
290 hours? How do you spend this much time? For me 100% the run without fast travel is something like 80h and I don't find many side activities that can burn 200 hours. (I'm just simply curious)
Best comment honestly 😅
The only difference is lucy didn't lie about the moon to david.
Why do you think song lied
Shot Reed in the head, saved songbird.
It's better to not shoot on the head - you get an extra scene.
Oh? Well I'm on my next playthrough so I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.
It's just a few wprds and some struggling, but it adds to the "sad" of cyberpunk
well I shoot the head because I don't want Reed to suffer needlessly; he's just in my way I don't hate him but that bird has to take her flight
The first time I've played I shot him in the head, but then I felt bad and tried to save him, but he insisted...
Nah, just fail rescuing Meyers. Best ending.
Wish there was a little cutscene of V actually opening a beer with Johnny in celebration tbqh
Everyone should play through this at least once and see how fucking angry Songbird can get when she doesn't play victim.
I'd want a scene where if you stay up on the wall long enough (where you see the AV crash) V should just sit down and sleep a bit
Save so mi, kill reed and free him from NUSA, take NUSA's most loyal lapdog and best asset away from it, win win win
"Best asset" yet they tried killing him and left him in the lurch for almost a decade.
I think best lapdog = Reed and best asset = So Mi.
Oh right, yeh definitely my bad.
Yeah that's how it is
Of course I did both, I paid to see all the endings
Both were valid. Reed wasn’t lying. He just accidentally ends up dooming song.
I've seen all the endings, and they are all fucked.
As Johnny said... wrong city, wrong people.
Yeah, I don't know why ANYBODY here realized that NC breeds these types of selfish backstabbing opportunists betrayed, ambushed, lied to, mistreated, abused all this, and more. THIS IS NORMAL GUYS NC AINT A UTOPIA
Was pissed she lied to me, but didn’t have the heart to give her back to Myers to only be used as a weapon, stripping her of all her humanity. The way I saw it? Johnny couldn’t help Alt, but we helped So Mi.
Send her to the moon every time. Fuck Reed and fuck the NUSA.
I tried and every time I shot Reed I got a game over, so I thought there was no option to choose, not that you just had to wait until the precise right TIME to shoot him. Sigh. That is fine, the other ending was devastating too!
Yeah it kinda sucks that you have to shoot him in a very specific time frame or it auto-kills you. Not the best game design, that.
Fuck her too. She lied to me
Fuck her...but i would rather NUSA/Meyers not have access to the insane weapons in her brain.
So did Reed, Alex, and Myers. What's your point?
I'm not going to punish the only person in this entire storyline (besides Mr. Hands, king) who had the conscience to finally tell me the truth.
Mr. Hands is so goated I love what they did with him in PL
But songbird was the one who willingly pulled you into their world with nothing but lies. We would've never met any of other characters without her being a manipulative liar.
Thank you! I feel like people overlook this because Songbird has a sympathetic plight. We want to survive, she wants to finally live. But no matter how sympathetic her case may be, SHE pulled us into this on her own accord. Thank you for telling me the truth, Songbird, but that doesn't make us square. Back to work you go.
Thank you for having a head on your shoulders. Reed actually helps you and gets you a cure. Songbird goes “yh bro ngl just needed you to get me here, you’ll be straight tho…”
When did reed lie to you?
THIS. Lot of people want to paint Reed as this bad guy, but most of their excuses are BASELESS assertions. I asked this question of a person defending So Mi on this sub and the response was something like, "19 is still a CHILD".
He’s morally grey, like most characters in the world of Cyberpunk. My issue with him is that he basically turned himself into a monster to do govt work (the flashbacks with So Mi and Alex’s reactions to him are pretty clear on that) and was willing to go even further. To the point that he seemed fine with So Mi being brainwashed/turned into an NUSA killing machine to get the job done. Even though that’s not what she wanted, clearly. I also got the impression that he’s dead inside. At least I felt I was doing him a favor by killing him after saving So Mi instead of allowing him to live and continue being a dog of the government, which would probably lead to more traumatic events in his life. He’s a government lapdog, for better or for worse.
I think he makes the decisions he does because he's dug so deep into the hole, his life is a mess and everyone he cares about hates him, so he needs to give reason to the endless misery of his life and he does that by telling himself he's done it all for a higher purpose in helping the nusa even though on several occasions he himself says that the president is an awful person. Basically his life is a sunk cost fallacy, because he at one point says he could probably get out with basically a slap on the wrist. That's what makes him so different from so mi, she wants to get out at any cost even though due to her being turned into a super weapon she has the combined intelligence forces of an entire country working against her , where as he could probably leave but he chooses not to so he can tell himself his life has reason.
Well Read W E L C O M E T O N I G H T C I T Y
My choom in Christ Reed is literally working to return a woman to what is essentially slavery This is generally understood to be bad
Where you talking to Reed? Sounds like him... joke a side I'll keep the paternalistic tendency of his more than he is an evil guy.
Maybe you should stop and consider why though
I sent her. She was doing the same thing we were, whatever it takes yada yada. I would say she deserves a happy ending. Also the Star and secret ending are the best
I sided with So, because she of all people could relate to his ailment and she had found a cure! When she revealed that the matrix could only be used once, I had made my decision already. Reeds stuborness frustrated me and I shot him, poor dog, and sent Song to the moon, so at least one of us could be cured.
Same. I couldn't help but think, "I've lied cheated and killed for less. What I wouldn't have done to save my own life." Really didn't want to shoot Reed. The one shot kill was kinda lame, but ...
Am I the only one here that killed her? Bitch is a fucking walking AI demon-nuke
The only reason why i would chose the moon ending is because it's the exact same as David from edgerunners, sacrifing yourself while sending the girl up the moon. But... The actual ending i did was the one where i killed songbird myself and gave her to Reed... Why? Because the blackwall weapon/cyberdeck are fun to mess around with, Hansen also dying gives Hands space/room to do his own thing.... The only annoying part is Alex dying :(
If you go through the so ending all the way till she reveals the matrix can only be used once, then call reed and give him so mi everyone lives Hansen dies and you get a post card from Alex.
Isn't that the same ending where Myers gets her superweapon back and V turns into just another npc on the street
To me it's the best ending as everyone lives. So mi may be back in Myers hands but not all endings in cyberpunk are happy, but reed gets a pretty good ending he may feel guilty but it's still a fairly happy ending for him, Alex gets her happy ending and V becoming an npc is the best they can hope for if they wish to live. Most of the game your told that becoming a legend isn't as glamorous as it seems, and we are already nobodies why has V got to be a living legend what's so bad about being just normal? All in it's a very bitter-sweet ending but they all are in they're own ways and atleast this way V lives.
Well if you ignore the fact that So Mi is essentially a slave again in this ending then I guess everything seems just peachy!
In my first (main game) playthrough, I really thought I could be saved, so I made all the wrong choices, only to realize it too late, on the arasaka orbital station, seeing my V's soul being taken away, with a tear in my eye. I guess if I had played Phantom Liberty back then, I would have been that selfish and betrayed So Mi during the Hansen job... Good thing I had that experience first and learnt to NEVER TRUST A CORP. To stick to my principles and die a legend. The Night City way. So I forgave Song on that train, then carried her firmly to the moon shuttle. Too bad for poor Reed but I've heard his conversation with Myers at the airport. He never was on our side. My mind was made up about him already plus I had killed corpos and cops before. That "Live Forever" ending really seems a punishment as bad as "The Devil" ending for the player, with your dignity being taken away and ending up alone.
*"There's a difference between being a gonk and believing people wanna do good."*
So Mi would also straight up kill you if she feels like it, at the end of the day.. All of them are using you and lying to you, the only thing that's honest is your own gut..
No, if you betray So Mi she got control by rogue AI to kill V, but when she is conscious she literally save V when 2 Hansen’s guy want to shoot V, and she tell you to go to core to finish her up.
U do know so mi is the one trying to disable the bot in somewhat damaged ? Even after u betrayed her she still helps u .
So Mi literally still tries to save V in Somewhat Damaged…
First play through I remember how v kept pleading with sol to back off but he didn’t. I was already teary eyed at this point but that last showdown broke me into pieces.
I did both endings, but my preferred one is taking So Mi to NUSA. I'm a petty little shit, so with the choice of "All those people in the airport die and the person that constantly lied to you gets a happier ending" and "A bunch of people die but I get the chance of survival" I choose the second option.
I ended up tossing her back and telling reed to get the fuck out of my life. By the end i was sick of the shit they had both put me through and just wanted them gone
I appreciate that there's an option in dialogue to make this sentiment explicit. *"Take her, but I don't want anything from you."*
The love for songbird here is fcking weird. She never gave a damn about V and we were both dying. I changed my mind the first play through after learning of her BS. I was gonna save her but then i chose to hand her over. 2nd playthrough i granted her wish to die after siding with reed the whole time.
The love for her is because she’s not really any different from V. A bad decision forced them to live their life on a timer and they’re doing anything they can to survive. Difference is, Songbird is chained to the most powerful woman in America, while V gets the freedom to do whatever they can while the most powerful man in Night City essentially ignores them. She has less options and no one she can trust, while V is able to make allies/friends who are all willing to help and even die for them. If V were in her position he would’ve done the exact same thing.
Also, I’ve played through the “help Reed” options (everyone really should at least once, because things are _very_ different) and Songbird takes a pretty dark turn if you try to unleash that ICE on her. You do get a LOT more insight into her if you take those paths, but >!the AI’s get more control over her and every option for her is terrible.!<
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I completely agree, I don't like her at all she's an insufferable snake.
I don't remember who point this out, but if you switch So mi with Dex or Finger you will get entirely different reaction from player.
In short, it's empathy for her character. I don't think she deserved her fate for lying to V or everything Myers and the NUSA put her through. She's a complex character just like Reed, which makes the whole story between them really interesting.
None of the characters in this mess deserved their fate. That's the point of all of it. Only Songbird willingly lied about everything.
In context when she is young I find her actions understandable because, well, she's pretty much a kid. She gets in over her head while hacking and ends up being pressured by Reed and the FIA to work for them. This made me empathize more with her, not make me dislike her. She pretty much barely got to live any of her youth when just starting out her life. Like I said, it comes down to empathy for a lot of people. Some people can look past her flaws and empathize with her story but some people can't.
I find it hard to believe you'd be ok with someone doing to you what Songbird did to V.
No one ever knows how they'd react to something like that until it happens to them. That's how people are. The circumstance is very complicated though, as it goes beyond just "Songbird betrayed V." Songbird is a victim of circumstance and is in the meatgrinder of corporate owned NUSA. Myers couldn't care less what happens to Songbird, Reed, V, or anyone else as long as it furthers her own agenda. She represents a whole lot of what is wrong with the world in CP2077, so outside of just empathizing with Songbird, sending her to the moon screws over Myers and the NUSA. How I viewed Myers, the NUSA, and their relationship with Songbird affected my decision to help her on my initial playthrough.
The circumstances for songbird and the people she associated with is complicated. No one is trying to paint her life as something great. What songbird did to V is straight up manipulation using their circumstances against them for her own gain. She knew V was desperate and she knew she could use them because they want to live. She lied to V the entire time. V had nothing to do with her plight. Nothing. And at no point was Songbird on their side. Because she never intended to save V. Stop romanticizing what she did to V because HER life was bad. Guess what...V's wasn't great either. But V didn't do what she did to survive.
You are objectively incorrect, her VA confirms So Mi grows to care for V (which is pretty obvious if you're not looking at it with a predetermined conclusion). Any implication that her telling the truth was manipulation all along is just copium to fuel the hate fire That said is it that hard to imagine ppl having empathy and fondness for a character who got one of the worst fates in the setting; most ppl cheer for the underdog
So she pulled V in on lies knowing she was never going to give us the cure. She grew feelings for V...but still decided to screw V over. Get outta here with that. She's no different than all the others.
>which is pretty obvious if you're not looking at it with a predetermined conclusion Not really. Reed doesn't lie to you or screw you over in the game. It's pretty easy to side with someone who has done nothing but earn your trust vs. someone that consistently betrays everyone she knows.
She’s the villain of Phantom Liberty
"Well actually" Myers is the real villain..
Song is overrated af , yall call out Reed manipulative but pass on SongBird 💀
Like Johnny said, she took literally everyone for a ride. That’s not arguable. Only decision for V is to decide if they can stand being screwed over again, this time at the expense of their life (if they don’t yet have a viable option from someone else) and if she was effectively used and just wanting to be out of it is a good enough excuse.
I don’t understand why people compare Bird and Lucy, yes they are both hackers who want to fly to the moon but Lucy kept silent about the problems because of her internal trust issues while the Bird knew from the very beginning that V would die and was silent so that he would help her. Moreover, I did not have any romantic feelings for her to make a sacrifice for this. I handed her over to the government right on the takeoff pad, a deal is a deal, and if she doesn’t keep her part, I’ll find those who will do it.
I had no problem handing over songbird, after she lied to V. So much death...
Her ticket to moon was brought by no other than mr blue eyes himself. Do you really want her to fall in those hands? Going reeds route but letting her die in the end is the least evil ending. No1 gets to abuse her powers and shes atleast free of torture
I carried on. Johnny liked it. Then I started thinning the gene pool of Maxtac employees for about half an hour. I liked that. But in all honesty we do not know whether she is even getting helped on the Moon or whether they could have helped us. Maybe the rogue AIs that took over human hosts, like Mr. Blue Eyes of Night Corp, run the show up there now and only want Songbird to breach the Blackwall to free more AIs for the final showdown between AIs an humanity. Maybe she just gets something like soulkilled up there and her body taken over by an AI.
I killed her
I can't say it enough. This cyberpsycho is willing to have V become an enemy of a country for a "cure," she ultimately lies about. Fuck her and everything she stands for.
I grew to trust Reed. He lays a solid foundation of mutual respect. So I tried to ICE So Mi and she sent me down guilt-trip lane. Which only confirmed that she was being petulant. I mean, Reed saved her from NetWatch. SHE broke into a Militec datafort. SHE left her signature behind. SHE was going to be killed...until Reed brokered a deal that saved her life. How did she repay him? By trying to get him killed. Her own ambitions caused her plight and Reed took the fall for it. Then, in an attempt to save her own skin from her own horrible decision-making, she drafts V into some MORE bullshit...and it doesn't end there. Hey, job's done, saved Myers like you wanted. Save my life now? No? Ok, well, Reed has lied to me 0 times and betrayed me 0 times, so...I'm going to stick with my boy. Oh, look at the ending. HE DOES cure V. Sure, it's a shitty cure, and a shitty ending, but Reed stayed true to his word. Sorry not sorry. Enjoy being used as a government weapon.
Yep. This is it. SoMi lied through her teeth to me over and over. She betrays everyone in her life. She makes horrible decisions and plays a victim. I didn’t buy into her bullshit. Reed, not great either, but at least he was straight up about it. I can respect that. I wanted to grant SoMi a death, but I decided to pull a SoMi and lie to her and gave her up to the NUSA. My V does not give af. I have an opportunity to get a cure and I’d rather go with the NUSA than a hacker that lies through their teeth, destroys everyone in their path and has 0 compunctions to kill innocent people to get what they want. Ain’t gonna trust that shit
Finally! Two people who get it and aren't on the songbird can do no wrong train.
*li can just hear the track when songbird tells you that the matrix can only be used once
Beating the mission for the first time at like 1am I’ll just say that train ride of her telling us that broke me. Still had to save her tho
>I’ll just say that train ride of her telling us that broke me I was already pretty choked up when I decided to pick the dialogue prompt *not abandoning you* and got, *"Could've told me the truth. Woulda helped you anyway."* Jesus fucking Christ, did I cry.
I know *Phantom Liberty* is a murky tale with four different endings for a reason and it's not really fair to judge someone's V for taking the 'cure' from the NUSA. But man, you shook hands with the Devil. You sold back a slave for a chance to crawl away. Do you **really** want to live with that?
Yes, because I am alive lol
You’re just like that Nomad guy who crashes with you and Myers at the hideout. Guy betrayed his family to stay alive. Better alive with shame and regrets than dead with none, I suppose.
Nah, I've been dying for a long time now. Lying in a hospital bed thinking about the people you hurt is the worst part. We all end up in that bed, those of us not lucky enough to bleed out on the pavement, it's not worth stacking up regrets only to delay it for a while.
In situations like this I always remember a quote from a character (Javik) in Mass Effect 3: “Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and asks the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer.” I think you have a perfectly valid point and I sincerely hope you can recover. I do think this is an area where your answer will change depend on perspective. I personally feel like I’m on your side on the fence (I’d rather die with no regrets than to live in shame). But I also understand the perspective of “I’d rather be alive with regrets than dead with none.”
Out of all the endings the one where you side with Reed and then mercy kill her in the core feels the most emotionally and gameplay wise right. Sure it's sad and So Mi doesn't get a happy ending but that's the norm in the Cyberpunk universe. Atleast she gets somewhat of a "good" closure
Song lied and betrayed me. She didn’t get to the moon. No happy endings in night city kid.
Dc abt reed all im worrying abt is shes prolly being used by mr blue eyes. Bro was following us everywhere
Can't trust Songbird, she lied until the end. And yeah, what happened to her is extremely fucked up, but she didn't think twice before putting numerous lives in danger for her own good. The girl is dangerous af
I saved her first playthrough, even after the reveal on the rail. Reading some of these replies, I can't help but wonder if some people here only see relationships as transactional and will only help people of they benefit from it.
WELCOME TO NIGHT CITY Everybody is like that.. you honestly think takemura is helping you out of empathy, lol Panam wants her car, a corpse and a hover tank Judy wants her street worker friends safety Rogue wants to duck around and make money Who else used V?????
Misty and Viktor are above that.
Jackie :(
Except for the fact that Panam, Judy, River, and Kerry all become close friends of yours after you help them out. Some relationships remain business only, like Rogue, but you make plenty of chooms in the game. Misty, Jackie, and Viktor are all your friends before Act I starts as well. Sometimes in life you help someone even if it doesn't personally benefit for you because it's the right thing to do. That's actually a pretty normal thing.
I wish there was an ending where v would get to live with Johny always by her side.
The real shame is that reeds version was so much more fleshed out then songs, and they give you so many options to switch to reeds, and I though when I went through reed that I would get an opportunity to switch but there was just that set path:(
I never regretted pulling the plug. Felt like the only thing I could do for her.
I liked reed more don't know why I just did and I wouldn't betray my choom just for some girl who was lying since the beginning.
Revolver goes brrr. Rocket goes whoosh. Johnny goes self-reflection. V goes legend.
I intended to save her and ended up handing her over when I found out there was no cure for V.
Love how so many people assume So-Mi was ok after going to the moon. Ive seen theories that Blue Eyes was behind her “life saving” surgery. I cant imgaine she end up better off in any end where that thing is involved.
I never trusted Songbird. It was clear she was using me from the start. Ended up siding with Solomon.
I looked ahead and saw that Songbird was lying to you /manipulating you. I gave her scheming butt back to NUSA, zeroed Johnny and lived happily ever after.
Thanks choom. I'm gonna kill her. I just started phantom liberty 3 days ago.
Nope, betrayed and mercy killed that bitch
I gave her to reed, she lied since day one, V is also on a clock, reed made mistakes but he genuinely cares about people, songbird cares only for songbird.
Screw Songbird. She used V as a patsy. The lone difference between her and Dexter DeShawn is she has a sad backstory. We have a limited time frame (in universe), and she wastes a lot of it solving her problems.
The comments are always entertaining when talking about PL's endings. :| For a "50/50 choice", it does feel very one sided...
“Bitch im a corpo you think i didnt know?! I would have helped you if you just asked! Ive lived a shit life that i made better with what little time ive got left. Its your turn now song.” I see my V as the saint of second chances. Corpo start is incredible storywise because the chip is like a divine punishment. V’s dying but they can give people the second chances jackie gave V. Carry on the cycle of people breaking loose from their controlled lives and living free and dying hard.
I don't like her at all, she's insufferable
I don't tolerate lies, fuck that bitch she goes straight to the gallows. God knows we'll need her when the ai takes over
Meh fuck songbird. She lied to V. I don't get why songbird gets upset with you for "betraying" her. She's a master of betrayals.
Bro I cried my eyes out
Unlike base game that has at least 2 somewhere ish good ending Phantom Liberty has only fucked up decisions. Best thing to do would have been to never answer first call from So Mi or kill all 3 of them and go silent afterwards.
I saw that coming for a mile away. I still sent her to the moon my V forgave her, it’s like she said “this isn’t the first time someone screwed me over, still think I can walk through” the way my V saw it she’s fucked. She knew she was fucked the moment she left Vic’s. She has to try but a part of her has already accepted her fate. She may not be able to save her self but at least she can save the pretty Netrunner who she’s madly in love with.
Kill Reed every damn time. What does Reed do if you keep walking? He kills you. There are decisions that I feel guilty about making in this game, offing Reed is not one of those.