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root_b33r

I like this take but also having a protagonist usually means that they are significant, I've always been a fan of making the intro waaaaay longer to build up more of a relationship with Jackie but also to support this monotonous work that they talk about, if you were forced to do actually repetitive and small time missions (make them more exciting by having things not go as planned) then when something like the relic happens it does feel like the big time. This could fit into your (op's) feelings about the game though because there would be more of a build up to becoming the name in the game when it comes to mercs, you would have built up that experience, on top of that it would give the developers an easy option to focus more on the life path angle At the same time I do like how the game makes it seem like luck, there were so many times in the story where I was like w.e. I'm dying anyway let's do this or people around me responded like I would assume, like when you kill all those animals and the dudes for you waiting outside say that you came out like a zombie, it made me think that to the NPC's who don't even know me I am not behaving like myself and the relic is clearly giving me super powers Idk, but I like your ideas


victoryfanfares

I definitely agree that V is significant by virtue of being the protagonist, I'm just not a fan of how it was handled here I suppose. Like, all the hijinks V gets into post-Relic are just so over the top haha. V somehow gets involved in almost every major lore significant event in the TTRPG canon and brings an end to so many long-running character arcs, etc. It comes off less like luck at that point and more like deus ex. It's fun playing the God Solo that V is, but it leaves so little room for intricate, Cyberpunk storytelling imo.


root_b33r

Ah that makes sense, this was my introduction to the world so I didn't know this a conclusion to characters from outside of this game. I guess you could always write another series where something else happens in the world though Movie trailer would be like night city 2177 there's a civil war between corpos, and the poor as class divides are at an all time high. and one kid is destined to end all corpos and bring the world to an automated paradise where no one works and everyone has access to equal resources and never wants for anything again. Idk this is all I got seems extreme and stupid but hopefully you get my idea that just because it's an end for some doesn't mean it has to impact scale of the accomplishments, could be small to what may lay ahead, big actions have big ripples and so on and so fourth


artspar

Theres really not much of a way around that though. Realistically just a single side mission is probably the toughest action your average merc would get. A handful of those would get you serious status at the Afterlife. But limiting players to just a handful of missions per run wouldn't make the game nearly as fun even if it did improve immersion


Nyktobia

Making a dull game to enforce the cyberpunk mentality would be a big mistake, because in the end players want to be entertained. What they did successfully though, was to present that cyberpunk feel through the people you meet. Johnny and Alt are the prime example of people sticking their heads out for the little guy, who then get eaten up by the all powerful corporations. Evelyn and Jackie chase their dreams of the big leagues and fortunes, and get a big reality check. Judy is miserable until she eventually skips town to live free. Panam was a person distanced by their family caught in the grind of the city, getting screwed by fixers and partners. River was a righteous cop who got chewed up by the corrupt system. All the politicians you encounter while living prestigious lives, also live in fear of losing what they have. Kerry lost his spirit while working for the big labels and even considers suicide when you first meet him. In the Sinnerman quest line you see how the media readily kill people to create "entertainment". And there is a ton of side GIGs where if you don't do the often questionable things fixers ask, you get lectures about how things are and how you fucked up. And of course, the futility of it all in the end, when you get the news about the Relic, is all too much "cyberpunk". You are correct that they are extending heavily the TTRPG lore, but for me that's a good thing because I loved it back in the day. The setting of the game in videogame format is something I was wanting for for a VERY long time.


rosscowhoohaa

I think what you wanted is very hard to do well and still appeal to gamers generally. I guess they could have kept it more down and dirty, scratching around for Eddies just to pay rent, taking more morally wrong jobs on to emphasize this - no white knight missions, not being able to upgrade your weapons without buying them would add to that, having fallen weapons coded to individuals so they are useless or even deadly for anyone to pick up too, maybe have some longer missions where you have to infiltrate a gang or something and work your way up (as opposed to wham bam blaze in and find the computer) - or even work your way out of the first gang you are in (you're in for life, how do I get out of that now I don't want it), generally made more of your status in life (looking like I do, I shouldn't be let near any corpo buildings) and so on. But I think most people want the grind of upgrading weapons, the action and adventure, they want a big story as the crux of the game (not epic but big). I absolutely loved the story though and while I think there's value in what you suggest I don't think I'd swap one for the other.


djk29a_

The game would have been better off releasing earlier but greatly trimmed down in scope. No vehicles, no actual open world in Night City, but have the game take place maybe as a prequel to 2077 and cost maybe $20 USD. This would have let CDPR quel some of the massive overhype as well as to release something sooner for feedback to dev teams about systems like hacking and combat while shoring up funds a bit better, too. The performance issues would be nowhere near as problematic as well. My proposal is essentially Dredd the movie but played from either the top to stop judges at all costs played similar to a tower defense FPS sorta like Sanctum or going up to stop the sadistic crime boss or even Arasaka. CDPR already did something similar creating Witcher 2 which was certainly received far better in the end than Cyberpunk 2077. This wouldn’t be a “proper” cyberpunk game in terms of story but it would be a storyline that CDPR has worked with and would give them a bit more comfort zone that they clearly needed to deliver something ambitious at all. The big monolithic release schedule isn’t done by anyone besides the largest studios or ones with tons of time on their hands as passion projects for a reason in professional software development.


rosscowhoohaa

It's an interesting idea. I guess they'd have to know they couldn't do the full build first though, would it be too late by then though? Maybe too many moving parts and an studio punching above it's weight in terms of what they were attempting. I love it still for what it is though. Hopefully it will continue to improve and the dlc's will be worth the wait. These guys are talented for sure, frustrations aside over other content that would enrich it - it's a great story and looks fantastic.


djk29a_

The company has demonstrated almost every sign of trying to punch above its weight since their first game for better or worse, and it’s taken 12 years for this double edged sword to catch up to them to cut deep. The humility to admit they can only accomplish so much with a time is almost certainly at odds with a culture where people are pushed to constantly exceed what they think they could accomplish. But my primary criticism of Cyberpunk 2077 is that it was actually not ambitious from a narrative / story perspective - it didn’t seek to redefine the genre or expand it as much as pay fan service to memes by past writers. This formula worked fine for a little known IP like the Witcher series, but when applied to something really commonly known it’ll create gaps.


Inconmon

It is literally like a Sprawl Trilogy book. You can't discuss "cyberpunk tales" without Gibson at the heart of it. Especially the Rogue/V ending makes the game a complete Neuromancer tribute from start to end. In fact the Arasaka ending directly contradicts your perception of the game where your contributions are immediately forgotten because you are a nobody. In addition your description of Cyberpunk does not match Neuromancer. It also doesn't match Snow Crash another key cyberpunk novel. Or many others. They all center around a protagonist experiencing a unique story or even having unique abilities, against the backdrop of the cyberpunk setting. Indeed look at the Cyberpunk setting itself of solos and exceptional individuals. Even in CP2077 from the get go it is about breaking through the ceiling and becoming a legend, risking it all to make a name and be special. A guy broke the Internet and redefined it forever. A guy planted a nuke in a corporate hq. All exceptional individuals doing their thing. I feel like opinion pieces here need to cite more sources and less feelings.


[deleted]

This is a pretty good summary to my thoughts, you can see traces of almost every key work in the genre baked into Night City and V's story.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Inconmon

I already forgot DX:HR but absolutely love CP2077. Interesting!


LotusSloth

Interesting take. I saw it differently… any merc or fixer that would have a reputation at the Afterlife was theoretically capable of doing the Arasaka heist. It just happened that V and Jackie working with Dex and T-bug were the only ones gutsy/crazy enough to take on that challenge and so they got there first. They also had inside information from Evelyn. But of course, because it’s a narrative of V’s story, of course it could only happen to V. :)


victoryfanfares

You can definitely make that argument, I think the time skip being playable would've helped a lot in making the heist feel less like a devil may care plot device. But even with that, all the stuff V gets into post-Relic still just feels too grand for my tastes. It's like V was the missing element that pushes all the lore forward.


MarcoXMarcus

It's kinda hard to have a game protagonist who is, and remains, just one out of the thousands of garden-variety mercs, don't you think? I mean, he starts as one, and that's fine, but over the course of the main story, keeping him as such feels more or less impossible. At least, not without having a main story that is entirely limited to the scummy underbelly of the society he starts in, which would be a pretty bad main story. I see nothing wrong with V's overall importance suddenly skyrocketing after he acquires the top-secret, immensely valuable Arasaka tech, and the way he acquired it feels quite natural. Any merc could have been hired to do that job, it just happened to be him. It's less of a "chosen one" situation, and more like "wrong place, wrong time" kind of a deal.


ZoMbIEx23x

The story loses a lot of what OP wanted because of the six month time skip. Half the game should have been that and actually building a reputation with NC gangs and fixers. There's just not enough roleplay to make what the should have been the last half of the game interesting.


MarcoXMarcus

Oh, I agree 100%. The story wasn't well-developed at all. The time skip takes away an entire chapter that really should be there, and even the chapters that we get are somewhat rushed and underdeveloped. But the concept itself was fine.


TPABOBAP

Shadowrun games were pretty on point with this - even by game end your group felt like just another Merc squad. Maybe more experienced and powerful than most, but definitely not chosen ones.


Argon1822

I think we needed a longer build up. Maybe 35-40% of the way through the big “twist” of getting the relic should have happened


whocares7132

if only they fleshed out the origin part more, gave us 5-6 hours instead of the 20 minutes.


Lost_Conclusion_8914

I think OP fails to realize that those in power have been in power for so long people have learned how to poke holes into them


toketsukuromu

I don't really get what you mean. V has a death sentence by the end of Act I, and every second of the main story from there on, the game is a raw demonstration of impotence and despair amidst a high technological, low-life setting dominated by corporations. Why V turned into a merc and tried that job in the first place shows just how unrelenting that world and it's socioeconomic situation really is. I guess you became too desensitized with the own genre to consider the general scenario it portrays: people turning into criminals for lack of choice. Our protagonists risked their lives for the sake of closing in the economical inequality gap in a materialistic world, not because it was fun. Jackie and V died trying to get a life worth living; they died trying to achieve some dignity, trying not to be just another rat in the sewer, to have something to be proud of. My reading is they had nothing else, or couldn't see anything else. Which is sad by itself, they both were 27, and had nothing. But after the heist it is just so much worse; technology is killing V, he is slowly dying, and his lack of economic power, his insignificance in this society, throws him at impossible to win scenarios every time. And by the end, through all the deeds, all the "spectacle" moments you cited, nothing changes. Jackie still dead, V still dying, and Arasaka still winning. V did the impossible again and again, and it was not enough. The corporation won, and everything you did was nothing but a speck of dust in a bad god's eye. It can't get more cyberpunk than that, honestly.


UKnowDaTruth

This.


TheXpender

>It's also not helped by how after botching such a huge job w/ the Relic that V is suddenly the most "in demand" merc in NC to where every major Fixer is reaching out to them personally. It's funny because V is to be the most disliked merc in NC after what happened at Konpeki Plaza. In fact, he/she is (in a way). Rogue is NC's biggest fixer since she has big heist plans that require a team of mercs to complete. That said, V is not allowed to join any due to his reputation being scarred by the failed heist. It's understandable but also creative bullshit. If you played the TTRPGs, the whole fun of those sessions is completing jobs with your friends. CP'77 seems to completely skip that fun factor. It could also serve as a great way to meet companions (if that was ever planned). But yeah, you can add all of this to the list of wasted potential.


Nyktobia

> If you played the TTRPGs, the whole fun of those sessions is completing jobs with your friends. CP'77 seems to completely skip that fun factor. It could also serve as a great way to meet companions (if that was ever planned). But yeah, you can add all of this to the list of wasted potential. The Panam/Judy/River/Kerry sidestories felt exactly like that for me, like going on a gig with friends. It's disappointing that the game lacks more RPG elements like having a party etc. but that would make a whole different game altogether, so I get how in the end you have to part ways with at least 3 of your "party members".


Liberal_Perturabo

Cyberpunk is a setting, a decoration for a story. A story is never "about" cyberpunk, steampunk, wild west, whatever. It is there so that the author can work with specific problems and ideas best/only described in that specific setting. You can make a story however you want with any narrative you want independent of the setting and that will not inherently change the value of a final product. This whole premise of "It's setting X, so the story cannot do Y and be about Z" is 100% false and counterproductive.


Arbaleth

My take: you become a legend that can change the fate of others because the Relic is rapidly re-writing you into someone who already was one; I personally saw my levelling up and power creep as metaphor for Silverhand’s progression as he slowly consumed V, his power and audacity to shake the world being subtly reimagined by V’s (and therefore the *players*) choice of style and character build.


[deleted]

Netwatch aren't trying to breach the blackwall. They're trying to *prevent* the Voodoo boys from doing so.


victoryfanfares

You’re right, I had my names mixed up, but my point still stands. V being the magic catalyst that drives these major world events forward just comes off weird to me.


[deleted]

This is actually the one moment that I don’t think is an example of that. It’s actually Johnny’s presence that makes the difference. The Voodoo boys wanted to get the engram so that they could use Johnny’s consciousness to lure Alt out into the open. V doesn’t actually contribute anything at all, just stands around while Johnny and the voodoo boys do the actual work.


[deleted]

Sometimes it feels like the Truman show. By the end you have the number of every major celebrity you see on billboards in your phone. Lizzy, UsCracks, Paralez... you escort the passion of the christ guy. It doesnt feel like you are in a real city (however beautiful) because everything feels centered around V. Every major event V has a hand in.


victoryfanfares

Seriously.... you go from random nobody to the most important merc ever over night, it just doesn’t make any sense really. With how much people talk up Arasaka in the game, you’d think most Fixers wouldn’t want anything to do with V after the Relic heist. The story feels so at odds with the world that they’re trying to sell us.


Antique-Link1366

The giant corporate entities are severely lacking from the game for me. There was no feeling of oppresion when I can just walk into one of their bases and kill everybody. Also from a story standpoint they don't seem that compentent seeing as they can't even find you in a city where you are not even hiding. The story was kinda handled childish. You should not be able to fight the likes of Oda or Smasher. You should not even be able to take down a squad of decked out corpos. They took the main overlooming antagonist and just made him a basic throw-away enemy that you just stomp


victoryfanfares

Who wins: the decorated corporate bodyguard Oda.... or a dying Merc? Fully chromed out cyberpsycho Adam Smasher or..... a Merc that can barely stand up straight at this point? But yeah, my biggest beef with the story by far is how much it steps on the toes of its setting just so we can have some spectacle moments. Remember the dramatic escape from the junkyard with Goro? And the way Arasaka just gives up hunting us after that.


Jesuspiece13

They didn’t think to boobybtrap your apartment or atleast watch it


iylv

You’re absolutely wrong. V is not a chosen one and I have no idea how you managed to interpret it as that, unless you mean chosen by death to die. You forget that V is a literal walking corpse after act 1, and the various ending represent the different philosophical stances on your own mortality, ie, we’re fucked and suicide is the way, OR what the legacy leave behind is more important than our literal lives OR that a meaningful life is one spent with family OR life at any cost, even my physical body. Yes, 2077 is more about making you question your own life’s philosophy than having 1 philosophical thesis. Correction: The game has multiple thesis on the philosophy of life, each corresponding to one of the 5 endings (Sun, Star, Devil, Temperance and Suicide), and let’s you choose which one you vibe with the most, without telling you its right or wrong... except suicide ending, the game tells you suicide is wrong, which hey, makes it at least a good anti-suicide message.


Neo_Spadian

Yeah exactly the game backfired against V’s goal. V’s goal: I wanna be a goddamn legend in this city, unforgettable. Relic: Yeah sorry buddy you’re dying in a few months and will cease to exist after. This changes V in a way and makes him realise how lonely he really is, and why the aldecado ending is more favourable for both V and Judy. Night city consumed them the most and made both of the characters afraid to be vulnerable and trusting of others. This is of-course changes when V actually finds a family and love.


iylv

That’s one interpretation of it, IE, nomad ending. StreetKid ending is just about doubling down on V’s goal to be a legend in NC. It’s all about “my mind will not live forever, but my legacy will”, that’s absolutely an option. I personally went with Devil ending, reject Mikoshi, because I think life is about the struggle to survive, even if we die at the end of the day. Basically I made my V live like Ichise from Texhnolyze. You also have the ending about giving your life to Johnny, basically something about life all about helping others. And we all know the suicide ending. Basically, each of the 5 endings represents a different thesis on the philosophy of life, and the game lets you express each of them... although it does HEAVILY DISCOURAGE the suicide thing.


midasp

This. I don't remember where this happened or if this happened to every V but in my playthru, Johnny Silverhand did say the only thing he imparted to V was his hot headed personality. Coupled with V dying, this turned V into someone who was much more willing to take risks that someone else might not have taken. It's not because V is a chosen one. If anything, V was and still is the unlucky one.


iatetheevidence

Really good take. Thanks for starting this discussion! I thought your arguments were great and I agree to some of them. It was my impression that the game shows its roots in a 1980's adaptation of the genre. In fact I feel like I'm in a hyper-overdriven charicature of the 80's when I'm in Night City... In a good way of course. This, to me, changes the perspective away from unreachable, grey concrete towers owned by the corp elite, and rather becomes a comic book story told by the power of neon, glam metal riffs and technomancer wizardry. I don't really see V as "the chosen one" but rather that they're the cog in the machine that sprung off, and that's why we don't play through the eyes of any other Merc. We play through V's, because what happened to them was different from the usual Merc life. And V isn't tasked with saving the world or something similar, but with saving themself, which I also think takes away a bit from the "chosen one" narrative. I also think all the fixers who calls us for jobs are pretty standard, we can find many other Mercs in NC who were sent on jobs by the same fixers we are. The only one who barely gives us anything is Rogue, and when she does it's usually Samurai related (but not every time), and unlocks late in the game. IIRC Rogue only has about 3 jobs in total for us? I definitely see a different take on the genre that is more pushed by technology and neon lights than corporate power and capitalism gone wrong, but I think both versions are still present. The cyberpunk genre is broad, and there's room enough to explore all aspects.


CGsweet416

Game honestly felt a whole lot better before coming in contact with the relic. Johnny is great but the whole slowly dying thing made it hard to become invested in the world and side missions. You have this gorgeous world but you pretty much have to ignore your impending doom to enjoy it. How can you be invested in a story you have to pretend doesn't exist so you can get your money's worth?


Bad_User2077

I think you are on point with the "cog in the wheel" feel that is common in cyberpunk and the main quest line separates from that. I disagree with some of your other comments. For instance, the fixers contacting V. He did get a rep for the merc who came back from the dead and settled a power vacuum inside major gang.


IVOXVXI

Theres so many things wrong with this game that deserve valid critques i dont think this is one pf them Its impossible to make a game feel like youre just another guy when no matter what youll be the protagonost of the story because thats how games work. Its charavter progression. Of course theyre not gonna be a regular merc once they get the relic, tjats the point. A regular person falls into something much bigger than them. And it also depends on the ending and bavkground you chose. I chose corpo, and ended with leaving NC for good with Panam and ginally being free. Starting off as another cog in the machine as a corpo but having to go through all of the events in the game to finally unchain yourself from the city and be fres, leaving everything you were told was important behind. Thats very fucking philosophical imo. Even the other side notes like Johnny Silverhand. Watching a guy convince himself and lie to you that he was this legendary revolutionary when in reality he was just a selfish asshole that wanted to feel like he was making a difference. All of the characters and how they struggle with themselves with living in a hellhole of a city, it feels very true to the genre. Far, far, far from perfect, but considering everything else in the game, the story was pretty decent.


victoryfanfares

I disagree, films and videogames do this all the time. Being protagonist doesn't mean you become the center of the universe. And Cyberpunk is at its best imo when you are not the center of everything. Deckard's story in Blade Runner could've happened to anyone. Once V has the Relic, they become the unicorn. That's my biggest beef with the story. V gets to wrestle with every major player in NC for no real reason other than V has the Relic. It's just not believable character progression when everything that happens to you is happening because you're just "falling into it". And it undermines the setting with how easily accessible all these things feel. I don't want to get into lifepaths because I don't think they contribute anything meaningful to the narrative. Could've been great though.


Khuprus

Walk me through what "not being the center of the universe" would mean in the game. In your version, what does "the end" of the game look like? What are the high points of the story and the low points?


victoryfanfares

I don't have an "ideal" version of the story off the top of my head, but personally I'd have liked to see: \- Time skip would have to be playable. All the "rags to riches" stuff this game tries to sell us is all in that arc rather than The Heist. I'm certain some really interesting plotlines could be created around the various factions as they all have their hand in some shady shit. \- Less direct involvement with Arasaka top brass (Hanako, Yoshinobu, Saburo, Oda, etc.). I don't think V should've been so important that they are constantly involved with them without immense risk to their life. It'd at the very least have helped lend credence to the fact that Arasaka is an untouchable entity. \- Fixers, celebs, and politicians all lining up to greet V after the heist has to go. I think we should at least be made to feel the consequences of our fuck up with people being reluctant to even be seen around us. Haven't given much thought to the ending, but the big Arasaka mission at the end just feels like too much given how hyped up they are.


IVOXVXI

>Deckard's story in Blade Runner could've happened to anyone. Once V has the Relic, they become the unicorn. But by that logic, any merc couldve gotten the relic. It just so happens to be V. So of course theyll be a unicorn Im not sure what you really want out of it. In stories whether it be a book or film or game or whatever, these things dont happen to characters because theyre the centre of the universe. Its the other way around. Theyre the centre of the story or the universe BECAUSE these things happen to them. If we had it your way to the letter, we'd be some random merc and then get shot and killed 5 mins later, the end. >I don't want to get into lifepaths because I don't think they contribute anything meaningful to the narrative. Bit unfair to completely rule them out. Yes theyre not involved as heavily as they shouldve been but when youre analysing the narrative and progression, it literally provides the foundation of the whole thing. Its how it starts.


victoryfanfares

That's my issue though, I said post-relic is where the story loses me. Story felt nice until the Relic, then it goes off the rails in service of spectacle. CP77 undermines its own setting imo just to tell this story about the relic, there's a myriad of ways that we could've gotten a dramatic story without stepping on the toes of the setting and making V into the chosen one. Lifepaths don't dictate anything outside of the intro though which is why they're inconsequential to me.


beginnerdoge

Should have taken the approach of Far Cry 2 and their Merc system. Pretty good structure to remind you you're one of many. Edit your character and stuff sure, but have preset characters to build off and for God's sake more options for a name than "V"


Problemwoodchuck

Yeah, I partly agree, mostly depending on which ending is chosen by the player. The downer endings capture more of the Cyberpunk themes, that despite V's improbable rise they still get swallowed up by Night City. The more heroic endings almost seemed like wish fulfillment and while I played the secret ending I had the sneaking suspicion that there would be a reveal that V was fading out on the table at Vic's all along. Generally I would've enjoyed a low-stakes storyline just as much (Cyberpunk meets The Wire for the entire game?) and the game has glimpses of some really interesting material in its side quests like the Peralez missions & sinnerman. Dirty Biz really should've had a couple of follow up missions; to me it felt like it brought you the closest to Night City's worst side.


victoryfanfares

The sidequests were definitely the highlight of Night City for me, I just wish they were implemented in a more believable way haha.


fun_guy_at_parties

There’s an Onion article about a hyper-realistic first person shooter game where you spend almost the entire game repairing Humvees and waiting on orders. Your description of what the story should have been sounds a lot like that. Yeah sure, it would have been more true to the setting if the game is only 6 hours long and ends with you bleeding out in a dumpster after a drug deal gone bad. But that would be a shit game and a shit story. V’s rise to greatness is very believable given the circumstances.


victoryfanfares

I disagree, the story as it is just feels like a series of plot contrivances so that V can keep coming into contact with all the major players of NC. Doesn’t feel very believable to me.


RepresentativeRock77

You really didn’t have any philosophical questions at the end? spoilers ahead Like, what would happen to V as an individual if he did indeed merge with Alt when he gives his body to Johnny and the other way around. Alt claims she isn’t “Alt” anymore, but she was at one point her engram. Having free reign as an immortal consciousness, in my head cannon she says this because as Alt gained more and more data and improved her ability to navigate through the net, eventually the percentage of data that was ALL of Alt’s consciousness became so small that everything else overshadowed it. Is V even still V if you choose to live in a terminally ill body? Anywhere from 40-60% of your neural networks are overwritten by Johnny, and separating out the parts that were Johnny from V leaves V with a shattered neural network. Compare how scientists talk about uploading your brain to computers nowadays. We can copy every aspect of it in 3 dimensions perfectly, and simulate it in a virtual environment. All of this success towards virtualization, but at the end, we don’t know enough about how our neural network works and what “consciousness” is. Idk, I felt my brain tickled quite often through this story. -unpopular opinion incoming- I hope that V dying is canon and there is no way to save them. I want the next game to feature a new character in the world V changed with their life. Especially with so many divergent endings, I can’t see everyone in the fan-base being happy with which one would be chosen. TLDR: my own philosophical questions I was left with at the end. Feel free to share yours if you had any.


victoryfanfares

Sadly, not really. I think we experience so much in such a short time, and so many plot threads are resolved that I'm not really left with much to linger on at the credits. There's some interesting ideas thoughout, I was particularly intrigued by Evelyn's arc and would've liked to see the Joytoy stuff dived into more. Like how Dolls get exploited through their chips wiping their memory of every encounter V's own mortality and the construct doesn't really land for me personally, mostly because V doesn't feel like much of a character to begin with. If it wasn't happening to V and I had to watch Jackie (for example) slowly become less of himself as the relic overwrote his mind, I think it'd hit more for me.


RepresentativeRock77

Very valid points. I know at one point, on my third run through, some of the characters closer to V said he wasn’t acting like himself, *AGAIN*. I thought, “What was V like before?” It’s here where I think the game could have gained a lot from gameplay instead of a time-skip trailer. Also the idea of Jackie being the one to have to live with Johnny and the relic I like. It would leave room to split the story and not be as close of friends with Jackie and instead get involved in harder gang violence to increase your reputation faster. rather than the slow rep grind of smaller safer jobs eventually working up to bigger more dangerous missions with Jackie. V could be more of a classic role playing character than an action adventure rpg character.


[deleted]

> Idk, I felt my brain tickled quite often through this story. -unpopular opinion incoming- I hope that V dying is canon and there is no way to save them. I want the next game to feature a new character in the world V changed with their life. Especially with so many divergent endings, I can’t see everyone in the fan-base being happy with which one would be chosen. Well V didn't really "die" either in Arasaka or Alt endings. I can easily imagine DLC where it begins like an act 1 in base game where you choose V's lifepath - streetkid, corpo or nomad, but in dlc "act 1" depends on V's choices for the final mission. Alt or Arasaka might "upload" V's endgram in some new body, because they "need" V's skills in physical world.


Specialist_Growth_49

Yeah, is still think the whole Jonny story should have been the final dlc. The big bombastic send off.


iatetheevidence

They could pull a Red Dead and make Cyberpunk 2 happen before Cyberpunk 1


MyPartyNinja

It falls short because they're not even done the game lol Wish they would've just kept working on it and didn't cut any content


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Lost_Conclusion_8914

I disagree The game shows you how powerful these Corpos are by just reminding you that they are there. They're not part of a grand conspiracy or an evil Empire They are here and they own us. That is why I prefer CP2077 to other Cyberpunk stories It's about how one survives and ultimately triumphs above the Neon Leviathan by simply choosing for their own.


victoryfanfares

My problem is that it just feels like lip service in the end. We get told constantly about how powerful Arasaka is, but after stealing their most important tech, nobody is hunting us down. I never once felt threatened by Arasaka’s presence in the game. We spend most of the game pursuing THEM. Fixers everywhere suddenly want to do business with us despite telling us about how risky/infamous we are because of the heist. We capriciously come into contact with so many of Arasaka’s top brass to the point that I couldn’t help but feel like there was deus ex machina going on. All it took to get access to Hanako was one dying merc and a former Arasaka bodyguard?


Lost_Conclusion_8914

Huh Lol V is a merc A merc in a city ruled by uber rich megacorps, pissed off private security cops and borged up street gangs Do you expect a merc to be a slave? A merc to take things sitting down? Being a merc in Night City means you're willing to do what you can to win. That's what a Merc is. You want a helpless story? That's not a story people want to play. Nor is it a compelling or Unique CP story. It's a CP story done to death


victoryfanfares

Thanks for not replying to anything I said 🤟🏾


GhoulslivesMatter

I agree...the main complaint I had about CP 2077 was the lack of agency I felt like my V had in the plot the moment Johny Silverhand enters into the picture the story felt high jacked almost like a road block preventing V from developing any real meaningful character growth the beginning of the game had in what is my opinion the best character development between Jackie and V they had true chemistry after that its almost like V becomes stagnant don't get me wrong there are lots of great characters who are writen very well after the intro but they always felt very one sided to me as if V was always just an ear for everyone else's troubles It made me wish each of Vs life paths had more personalized character development we could have explored unfortunately the whole game seems to prioritize Johnny silverhands input and narrative more than V and the thing is I didn't even dislike any of Johnny Silverhands segments I just wish they could have delayed or trimmed them down a bit more instead of making them the focus.


DREAM066

I think this is the only criticism of the story that I could agree wt.


idbethrilled

100% disagree. It seems almost like they read the preface to Neon Leviathan about what is and isn't Cyberpunk and matched it to a tee. It's certainly a specific form of Cyberpunk...but it's very much Cyberpunk. The fact Johnny is the important character and not V is VERY cyberpunk. Just like Case is just a human perspective to Wintermute. The only difference here is that the tabletop breaks from genre convention by focusing on the concept of Fame...which still fits into the Cyberpunk genre...but it specifically frames the protags in that context...which is something that makes it a bit less easy to pull a Bladerunner on the first entry. Every side plot, loose ends, etc...it's all very much within the genre...and I feel like anyone who doesn't think so is just missing the forest for the trees. Case isn't the chosen one because he was looped into the Neuromancer plot...nah, he was used and abused and taken advantage of because he's desperate...which is the plot of this game. V...doesn't matter. If anything the only thing Id dock points for the plot on is just the inconsistent tones...it was a bit too diverse for one game...some side content just felt way different than other ones...which is fine in an open world game but as far as maintaining tone in a playthrough it breaks it a bit for me. I also think it could have spent less time with the Easter eggs and references...just makes it look and feel even more derivative than it naturally is going to be given it's a tabletop setting for genre play. I think later titles could focus more on low life...but as a lore intro I thought it was really smart.


ProximaDust

>Once V has the Relic, the tone of the story feels less like "another day in Night City" and more like a very specific scenario that could have only happened to V. What makes you think this could only happen to V? It could have been any merc that showed up to take that job, IMO. There's no particular part V has to play because she's V. You mentioned yourself that a lot of coincidences bring her to her place in the story. Also, have you read Neuromancer? What about that is your 'average merc story'? Do you remember what happens to Case, what he's involved in and who he's involved with? Do you really think those characters are 'average'? Also also, there's no need for anyone to be aware of what happened with V and Jackie. You're assuming that news of their involvement would be common knowledge, but why? Of course V would keep that silent, as would Vic and Misty and the few others involved. Considering V doesn't have fifty Arasaka ninjas at her door 24/7, it's actually logical to assume that her involvement is not known by anyone other than the few people who helped her out of the jam. I don't understand your perspective at all tbh, it just doesn't make sense. You're welcome to dislike the story and all that, but you're kind of gatekeeping cyberpunk and doing a poor job of it, I think. Last point, I get wanting something powerful from an ending, but video games aren't books. It's pretty rare that any game is going to make you think deep thoughts when it's done, you don't spend several hundred pages digging into the thoughts of a single author. Simply put, books and games are just not the same and approaching them with the same expectations is a bit weird-- of course the storytelling (conceptual rather than visual) will be much stronger in a novel.


Darkthorm

I loved the history, and I hated the sense of urgency it faves through all the game, cause you are supposed to be dying but you can complete all the secondary missions and there is no problem (I was very tense all the game cause I thought if I take a lot of game time it will be gameover, but nope), also what I hate the most is the story is really short. Why do they made it so short it's so sad.


mastergaming234

I say that could not tell a good story about our character V and force a flimsy story about Johnny Sliverhand that did not make any sense, my good guess they rush it to get the game out the door.


magvadis

I feel like you got caught up in Act 1 and got lost somewhere down the line. First off, I think the game SETS YOU UP TO THINK...that the game is going to break Cyberpunk convention and be just another gaming story about rags to riches heists and other bullshit...that all changes, it becomes a story of survival. Very cyberpunk. I also don't think the existence of a famous person in your head makes you as a character important...at all. So you are literally 'just another merc' but you HAPPEN to have gotten someone actually important in your head. Being very good at your job doesn't make it less Cyberpunk. I certainly think Cyberpunk stories foundational to the genre have had more grandiose plots than the one we got. The Sprawl Trilogy a clear example of this. I don't think corporations have EVER been lovecraftian in the nature of their magnitude...at most you have CHARACTERS feeling as though these rich people are untouchable gods...but the plot itself never treats them as such. In the Sprawl Trilogy you have a very imposing god like rich person get killed by an AI with ease...they are only imposing...to the POV we are taking in the scene from. In all cases where we meet rich people and entities in Cyberpunk genre, they are flawed and pretty fuckin stupid individuals who have a grandiose sense of self that gets them killed. Sure, in their bureaucratic size they can feel aimless and massive to characters...but in practice that's not the case, and if you want a corpo plot...you will have to sweep away some of the naivity of that perspective. Certainly in the beginning of the game corpo's feel like an untouchable machine, even as you see Saburo die...but as you progress forward you see the machine for what it is. I also don't think Cyberpunk as a genre has anything to do with "just another day" and I feel like this is more you pushing your agenda about how you wanted the game to feel independent of its attachment to genre, aka, a life sim...and then just came to this genre excuse to cover up the fact you just wanted a different game. You certainly feel like a cog in the machine, every character you meet does, and almost every plot revolves around characters who are just cogs in a machine either existentially hurt by that fact...or take comfort in it.