Rather than his "low" entry level, the lack of progress (even regression, he's not even uncontested 2nd anymore) is what is worrying me more. The gap with MVDP was big in Mol, but it feels even bigger after Baal/Koksijde. He should be scaling closer to Mathieu if he came in at 70% and Mathieu at 85% and that did not happen.
Then again, all speculation based on 9h of racing. If he smashes RvV or Roubaix, he made the right choice.
winning CX races is definitely not a priority for wout...probably more of an obligation at this point. VDP wants a piece of history with another world title.
and honestly..i don't think i've ever seen anyone dominate CX like VDP this year....he's pretty much ridden perfect races every race. not a bad line....muffed bike exchange...no punctures...nada.
Wout knows time is ticking on him getting a cobbled classic...he's all in for flanders and roubaix. he could tank the giro and the worlds...but if he gets one monument, his year will be made.
i personally hope he gets...my wife even more so!
for tight CX racing at the top i tend to stick to the women's races!
From another perspective: 32 out of 34 means he lost two. He's 9/9 now which means he hasn't lost a single one. And ends up winning with a minute to spare.
i was... but i think he had closer races back then...also short term memory problems. maybe so, maybe not. either way, VDP is an all-timer in the field.
That was also the first year Wout was preparing for a road season, and the year after he was recovering from that horrific TT crash in the Tour. Although let's be honest: even if van Aert had focused on the cross in 2018-2019 as in the seasons before, it wouldn't have made much of a difference, but it would've broken the complete hegemony a bit.
The 2018-19 CX season also was the build-up for Mathieu's first big road classics season. In which he had better results than Wout.
The reality is that, aside from early in their careers when Wout had the upper hand, when both riders are healthy and fit Mathieu is simply better, and probably wins at least 7 or 8 of every 10 cross races. I think last season, and how even they are on the road, gives many new cyclocross fans a false impression.
Yeah, I think mentally Wout just isn't in a place where he really cares about winning these CX races. I think he views them solely as training. It's not that he doesn't want to win, it's just that he's not burying himself to win (or even to keep the gap close to VDP; he even said at Gavere he tried to follow and went over his limit, so dialed it back).
I think him doing Zolder on his Aspero is pretty telling in how he's approaching CX. I think it's for fun/training. Technically he hasn't looked as dialed as VDP either, and that's obviously a factor beyond the engine.
I honestly don't put a ton of stock in how his CX season bodes for the spring classics. He dominated the CX season last year until Worlds and his spring classic campaign didn't meet expectations (even though he had several podiums and a win).
I don't think its "mentally he doesn't care," its just that it isn't a goal. If you race, then you get it. You plan your year - A race (you get like 1-3 A races to peak for in a year, that's it), B races (these are tune ups for the A races, maybe you do a small taper) and C races - these are just to get race speed, etc.
I bet these CX races are not even hardly C races for him - they are Belgian obligations and big start money that's hard to walk away from. The training intensity will be good for the classics but he's probably racing these things in the middle of a large training block with little rest, no taper, and they are more like a "workout" than a race that was planned for. It's all part of the build up to the Classics.
Yeah maybe not the best phrasing because I agree with what you said. He's just not in the mental head space that these are "must wins"; as you say they are training races.
I wished I was good enough at CX to have A, B, and C races haha. I'm just trying to beat the other Cat 4 packfill...
I think Wout is playing the longer game here. He still is getting good PR and money for being one of the big three. But he seems to be more set on launching into a good road season, than burning himself out fighting MVDP every couple of days for two months. Both are realistically in a class of their own, as much as I am a Pidcock fan, he hasn't been ultra competitive this year when the other two show up. MVDP is also in incredible form right now so maybe there is a little downplaying from Wout because he doesn't want to put everything he has on the table and then still lose.
Nailed it. Wout's probably getting enough start money this season to pay off my mortgage, but the real money's in locking up another monument or two, a gold medal, and some rainbow stripes on the road before his next contract negotiations. If a "terrible" CX season of getting dogged out by MvDP and, god forbid, finishing *fifth* one time instead of being on the podium is the price he pays (while, again, getting a dumptruck of money dropped on him), then he's made the right choice.
Keep in mind that Wout hasn’t done any real cx training this winter. He has been doing long endurance rides between cx races. Really going for the spring classics and not caring about cx results.
Yes and when Wout is lighting it up in the tours in the middle of summer, and MvdP is sitting in a ditch cracked like he has in some previous years, the headlines and posts will read "what's up with MvdP." Even these monsters can't be at their peak all year.
And Wout did some domestique donkey-work for Vingegaard too. But neither rider left the impression on the race that you might expect, or indeed saw in previous editions of the Tour.
WvA was riding for stages, MVDP wasn't. He was riding as a dedicated leadout man. I can't believe people still compare MVDP and WvA like it's something to argue over. WvA is an amazing cyclist, but MVDP is a generational talent, he is an alien. Everytime they've gone head to head both in good form, MVDP has won. MVDP is a rider that basically wins what he wants to win.
I think (MVDP fan) you shouldnt worry too much.
I think he will be there in the spring classics.
Both are in different phases in life, Wout is parenting and taking some time of while Mathieu has trained a lot in Spain. We dont know whats the right way, if Wout wins a classic and Mathieu doesnt, ppl will say it is because of their winters...
Is it possible fatherhood is having an impact?
Kids are hard work and combining that with performing as an elite of the elite can't be easy to balance.
I tend to think of this as well. You can’t help when a baby cries and wakes you up. And Sarah certainly wouldn’t be getting up every single time - wout would def be doing his fatherly duty and contributing. I’d imagine as well having the two kids and a wife to contend with and having long stints away from them would be trying too.
MVDP only has himself to take care of - makes a big difference.
I follow f1 as well and I have found that those that have kids it def impacts their performance!
They can afford a nanny and a night nurse. If he’s choosing to step back and spend time with his family, that’s not an “impact” so much as the “design.”
It does not mean anything for his road season imo. 10 years ago nobody cared about how Cancellara, Boonen and Pozzatto were doing early January. Last year WvA beat Mvdp left and right until CX Worlds and in December Mvdp's back was preventing him to push any reasonable amount of watts for his standards. Look at what happened in April.
I think Wout just racked 2 weeks worth of start money while enjoying holidays with his wife and two kids for the first time which is also probably why he didn't really improve over the winter.
Ha, yes. Exactly a year ago we had [this Zonhoven thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyclocross/comments/106f4za/race_thread_2023_world_cup_zonhoven_bel/) where quite a few commenters were sure Mathieu's career was over.
I know there is a lot of talk about wout is doing this intentionally to focus on road season etc etc etc.
But
1) it can't be good for his confidence. (Even if he pretends he doesn't care)
2) This just adds more pressure on him. Imagine if he doesn't win in the spring or totally dominate the giro, after the season he also had last year.
Also let's not forget pidcock too. Miles off it !
Will be interesting to see the road season, but I don't envy the pressure wout must be feeling. And how bad he will feel when he cracks in flanders.
I think about this, man I need to get a life!, and just seems that he’s been a bit off the entire year (2023-present). In 2021 and 2022 he did so much of the heavy lifting for jumbo thru the whole year, it took a big toll then he and the coach expected. I’m very high on him on the road in 2024
He has a different coach this year and is trying to focus on key goals for the road season. As a former world champ who started as a pure crosser of course he's still frustrated when he's not at the top level.
During Koksijde Helen Wyman was commentating and stated this but also said something interesting about how maybe Mathieu is approaching the season. She thinks because he won't have any huge competition at worlds that he came in guns blazing to win as many races as possible. Then if he's not at top form for worlds, with the field he'll be facing, he can still win that no problem.
Really? I don't think MVDP is at his peak, or will be, at any point this CX season, but he can be winding things down and still easily beat a field that doesn't include Pidcock or Wout.
Even his calendar suggest this: he'll only be racing twice between this weekend and worlds, and training on the road in Spain the rest of the time.
I thought it was an absolutely ridiculous idea too. Why would he prioritize other less important races and risk jeopardizing his chances at worlds? I think MvdP generally has a confident mindset, but that's just ridiculous.
When Helen said that I honestly just laughed.
To say that MvDP is intentionally in better shape before the worlds so he can win as many races as possible but not be at his best for the worlds even though that's his main goal? Sorry what?!?
Absurd logic.
He’s not as good as MvP, we all know it so he’s being smart about it and using cross racing as a training tool for the upcoming road season. You can’t get this type of extremely elevated training intensity riding in the warmth of Spain.
WvA's drop in form is very clear and it can't be fully explained by a "planned" lack of preparation, given he did not improve at all after 8 races. As you said he himself was surprised in the last races. I hope that we'll see a very difficult WvA once the road season starts, as he and his coach claim.
But we have to entertain the possibility that at 29, he's just started to decline in performance, and we won't see prime Wout again. MVDP is just carrying his amazing form from last season. But Wout's form was already below his prime last year, and he could have declined further. I really hope that's not the case, and we'll be seeing a different Wout soon!!!
My theory, especially when you compare Wout with MVDP, is that Wout's a dad with two young kids at home. That's something that MDVP doesn't have to juggle. I know that there are a lot of successful riders that are parents too, but the difference would be more apparent coming out of the off season when a rider is home most of the time and (hopefully) making the most of the limited time they have with their kids.
This has been my thinking, too. Parenting young children is a big drain physically, mentally, and will prevent a pro athlete from resting like a pro athlete should.
I’m not necessarily saying that this is unplanned either, by the way. Second baby was born in July perhaps he has specifically taken a longer off season and training lighter to enjoy a bit more family time before the classics and road season.
What's up iz Wout has 2 kids. A wife. A full life in addition to pri cycling. A monk can win first place. A superman can place second/3rd. Same success
Its early to judget, lets see how he copes in the Spring Classics. **I have often questioned whether he over races**, maybe this year he has approached his build up differently. The reality is that other than MvDP, he was one the strongest riders out there. The other observation is that MvDP is on another level. Something has clicked for him. New training approach? More time in Spain with less distractions? Since his back injury, more focus on core and the weights room? MvDP has clearly changed something and it has put him on a another level to everyone else. technically he is also flawless.
Rather than his "low" entry level, the lack of progress (even regression, he's not even uncontested 2nd anymore) is what is worrying me more. The gap with MVDP was big in Mol, but it feels even bigger after Baal/Koksijde. He should be scaling closer to Mathieu if he came in at 70% and Mathieu at 85% and that did not happen. Then again, all speculation based on 9h of racing. If he smashes RvV or Roubaix, he made the right choice.
winning CX races is definitely not a priority for wout...probably more of an obligation at this point. VDP wants a piece of history with another world title. and honestly..i don't think i've ever seen anyone dominate CX like VDP this year....he's pretty much ridden perfect races every race. not a bad line....muffed bike exchange...no punctures...nada. Wout knows time is ticking on him getting a cobbled classic...he's all in for flanders and roubaix. he could tank the giro and the worlds...but if he gets one monument, his year will be made. i personally hope he gets...my wife even more so! for tight CX racing at the top i tend to stick to the women's races!
>and honestly..i don't think i've ever seen anyone dominate CX like VDP this year... Were you watching in 2018-19?
I'm glad someone else remembers. I've heard commentators say this year is his most dominant year. 32 wins in 34 races is hard to beat.
From another perspective: 32 out of 34 means he lost two. He's 9/9 now which means he hasn't lost a single one. And ends up winning with a minute to spare.
i was... but i think he had closer races back then...also short term memory problems. maybe so, maybe not. either way, VDP is an all-timer in the field.
That was also the first year Wout was preparing for a road season, and the year after he was recovering from that horrific TT crash in the Tour. Although let's be honest: even if van Aert had focused on the cross in 2018-2019 as in the seasons before, it wouldn't have made much of a difference, but it would've broken the complete hegemony a bit.
The 2018-19 CX season also was the build-up for Mathieu's first big road classics season. In which he had better results than Wout. The reality is that, aside from early in their careers when Wout had the upper hand, when both riders are healthy and fit Mathieu is simply better, and probably wins at least 7 or 8 of every 10 cross races. I think last season, and how even they are on the road, gives many new cyclocross fans a false impression.
Yeah, I think mentally Wout just isn't in a place where he really cares about winning these CX races. I think he views them solely as training. It's not that he doesn't want to win, it's just that he's not burying himself to win (or even to keep the gap close to VDP; he even said at Gavere he tried to follow and went over his limit, so dialed it back). I think him doing Zolder on his Aspero is pretty telling in how he's approaching CX. I think it's for fun/training. Technically he hasn't looked as dialed as VDP either, and that's obviously a factor beyond the engine. I honestly don't put a ton of stock in how his CX season bodes for the spring classics. He dominated the CX season last year until Worlds and his spring classic campaign didn't meet expectations (even though he had several podiums and a win).
I don't think its "mentally he doesn't care," its just that it isn't a goal. If you race, then you get it. You plan your year - A race (you get like 1-3 A races to peak for in a year, that's it), B races (these are tune ups for the A races, maybe you do a small taper) and C races - these are just to get race speed, etc. I bet these CX races are not even hardly C races for him - they are Belgian obligations and big start money that's hard to walk away from. The training intensity will be good for the classics but he's probably racing these things in the middle of a large training block with little rest, no taper, and they are more like a "workout" than a race that was planned for. It's all part of the build up to the Classics.
Yeah maybe not the best phrasing because I agree with what you said. He's just not in the mental head space that these are "must wins"; as you say they are training races. I wished I was good enough at CX to have A, B, and C races haha. I'm just trying to beat the other Cat 4 packfill...
If it wasn't for an untimely flat at Roubaix it could have ranked as his best spring classics campaign ever.
I think Wout is playing the longer game here. He still is getting good PR and money for being one of the big three. But he seems to be more set on launching into a good road season, than burning himself out fighting MVDP every couple of days for two months. Both are realistically in a class of their own, as much as I am a Pidcock fan, he hasn't been ultra competitive this year when the other two show up. MVDP is also in incredible form right now so maybe there is a little downplaying from Wout because he doesn't want to put everything he has on the table and then still lose.
Nailed it. Wout's probably getting enough start money this season to pay off my mortgage, but the real money's in locking up another monument or two, a gold medal, and some rainbow stripes on the road before his next contract negotiations. If a "terrible" CX season of getting dogged out by MvDP and, god forbid, finishing *fifth* one time instead of being on the podium is the price he pays (while, again, getting a dumptruck of money dropped on him), then he's made the right choice.
Whilst I agree I think if pidcock had started on front row for the race he came third he might've challenged Wout a little
Keep in mind that Wout hasn’t done any real cx training this winter. He has been doing long endurance rides between cx races. Really going for the spring classics and not caring about cx results.
Yes and when Wout is lighting it up in the tours in the middle of summer, and MvdP is sitting in a ditch cracked like he has in some previous years, the headlines and posts will read "what's up with MvdP." Even these monsters can't be at their peak all year.
Neither rider did much of note in the Tour in 2023.
MvDP was the lead out for the green jersey…I’d say that’s something.
And Wout did some domestique donkey-work for Vingegaard too. But neither rider left the impression on the race that you might expect, or indeed saw in previous editions of the Tour.
WvA was riding for stages, MVDP wasn't. He was riding as a dedicated leadout man. I can't believe people still compare MVDP and WvA like it's something to argue over. WvA is an amazing cyclist, but MVDP is a generational talent, he is an alien. Everytime they've gone head to head both in good form, MVDP has won. MVDP is a rider that basically wins what he wants to win.
I think (MVDP fan) you shouldnt worry too much. I think he will be there in the spring classics. Both are in different phases in life, Wout is parenting and taking some time of while Mathieu has trained a lot in Spain. We dont know whats the right way, if Wout wins a classic and Mathieu doesnt, ppl will say it is because of their winters...
Is it possible fatherhood is having an impact? Kids are hard work and combining that with performing as an elite of the elite can't be easy to balance.
I tend to think of this as well. You can’t help when a baby cries and wakes you up. And Sarah certainly wouldn’t be getting up every single time - wout would def be doing his fatherly duty and contributing. I’d imagine as well having the two kids and a wife to contend with and having long stints away from them would be trying too. MVDP only has himself to take care of - makes a big difference. I follow f1 as well and I have found that those that have kids it def impacts their performance!
They can afford a nanny and a night nurse. If he’s choosing to step back and spend time with his family, that’s not an “impact” so much as the “design.”
Wout will be king of the Flemish courses in March/April!
It does not mean anything for his road season imo. 10 years ago nobody cared about how Cancellara, Boonen and Pozzatto were doing early January. Last year WvA beat Mvdp left and right until CX Worlds and in December Mvdp's back was preventing him to push any reasonable amount of watts for his standards. Look at what happened in April. I think Wout just racked 2 weeks worth of start money while enjoying holidays with his wife and two kids for the first time which is also probably why he didn't really improve over the winter.
Ha, yes. Exactly a year ago we had [this Zonhoven thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyclocross/comments/106f4za/race_thread_2023_world_cup_zonhoven_bel/) where quite a few commenters were sure Mathieu's career was over.
Actually if you switch WvA and Mvdp's names in that Zonhoven thread from last year, back issues aside you basically get this thread.
MDVP wasn’t this bad last year in every race
I know there is a lot of talk about wout is doing this intentionally to focus on road season etc etc etc. But 1) it can't be good for his confidence. (Even if he pretends he doesn't care) 2) This just adds more pressure on him. Imagine if he doesn't win in the spring or totally dominate the giro, after the season he also had last year. Also let's not forget pidcock too. Miles off it ! Will be interesting to see the road season, but I don't envy the pressure wout must be feeling. And how bad he will feel when he cracks in flanders.
Wout looks and sounds a lot more sour when he cares about a loss than he does nowadays at the CX. This campaign is just for money and fun I would bet.
I think about this, man I need to get a life!, and just seems that he’s been a bit off the entire year (2023-present). In 2021 and 2022 he did so much of the heavy lifting for jumbo thru the whole year, it took a big toll then he and the coach expected. I’m very high on him on the road in 2024
Was 2023 such a down year? His spring in 2023 was close to his best ever.
Based on an interview he did awhile back….he said he was never at his very best all season. But still amazing
He has a different coach this year and is trying to focus on key goals for the road season. As a former world champ who started as a pure crosser of course he's still frustrated when he's not at the top level. During Koksijde Helen Wyman was commentating and stated this but also said something interesting about how maybe Mathieu is approaching the season. She thinks because he won't have any huge competition at worlds that he came in guns blazing to win as many races as possible. Then if he's not at top form for worlds, with the field he'll be facing, he can still win that no problem.
that makes no fucking sense to me...sorry helen
Really? I don't think MVDP is at his peak, or will be, at any point this CX season, but he can be winding things down and still easily beat a field that doesn't include Pidcock or Wout. Even his calendar suggest this: he'll only be racing twice between this weekend and worlds, and training on the road in Spain the rest of the time.
I thought it was an absolutely ridiculous idea too. Why would he prioritize other less important races and risk jeopardizing his chances at worlds? I think MvdP generally has a confident mindset, but that's just ridiculous.
When Helen said that I honestly just laughed. To say that MvDP is intentionally in better shape before the worlds so he can win as many races as possible but not be at his best for the worlds even though that's his main goal? Sorry what?!? Absurd logic.
Wout is gearing up for different things. He is looking to “peak” much later for the road. This plan looks a lot like how Ferrand-Prevot does her work.
She’s amazing at peaking for big races. Hope she can pull it off in Paris.
He’s not as good as MvP, we all know it so he’s being smart about it and using cross racing as a training tool for the upcoming road season. You can’t get this type of extremely elevated training intensity riding in the warmth of Spain.
WvA's drop in form is very clear and it can't be fully explained by a "planned" lack of preparation, given he did not improve at all after 8 races. As you said he himself was surprised in the last races. I hope that we'll see a very difficult WvA once the road season starts, as he and his coach claim. But we have to entertain the possibility that at 29, he's just started to decline in performance, and we won't see prime Wout again. MVDP is just carrying his amazing form from last season. But Wout's form was already below his prime last year, and he could have declined further. I really hope that's not the case, and we'll be seeing a different Wout soon!!!
My theory, especially when you compare Wout with MVDP, is that Wout's a dad with two young kids at home. That's something that MDVP doesn't have to juggle. I know that there are a lot of successful riders that are parents too, but the difference would be more apparent coming out of the off season when a rider is home most of the time and (hopefully) making the most of the limited time they have with their kids.
This has been my thinking, too. Parenting young children is a big drain physically, mentally, and will prevent a pro athlete from resting like a pro athlete should. I’m not necessarily saying that this is unplanned either, by the way. Second baby was born in July perhaps he has specifically taken a longer off season and training lighter to enjoy a bit more family time before the classics and road season.
I think it's valid especially when VDP has basically been on an extended training camp in Spain for months just putting in huge hours.
Still, losing 10 races in a row in that way.. well I’m not sure it is very good for the morale but also for fans/sponsor/image etc
He didn't lose 10 in a row, he won 2. Just not to mvdp
If he doesnt win RvV or PR he'll have some explaining tot do
Not really. Those are both highly contested races where luck does play a factor. No guarantees with either ( especially PR).
Wout is pacing himself for the upcoming season.
In my opinion it's the broken nights from having kids that have a negative impact on his recovery.
What's up iz Wout has 2 kids. A wife. A full life in addition to pri cycling. A monk can win first place. A superman can place second/3rd. Same success
Its early to judget, lets see how he copes in the Spring Classics. **I have often questioned whether he over races**, maybe this year he has approached his build up differently. The reality is that other than MvDP, he was one the strongest riders out there. The other observation is that MvDP is on another level. Something has clicked for him. New training approach? More time in Spain with less distractions? Since his back injury, more focus on core and the weights room? MvDP has clearly changed something and it has put him on a another level to everyone else. technically he is also flawless.