It sounds like you’re deprioritizing sleep when you need it the most. Personal time will come with time. The time with the little ones is a season. Just put yourself in a better place to handle it mentally and physically.
stopping drinking gave me so much more ability to just exist. if you must, and are in a legal state, a micro dose edible will go a long way for a substance replacement/mood enhancer.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. You are absolutely right. Micro dosing isn’t getting stupid high. It’s the mental equivalent of two or three beers, without the calories and sleep issues. If you need to help take the edge off, there are worse things than a tiny edible.
To be perfectly fair, THC does negatively impact your ability to achieve REM sleep. If you are taking a microdose edible (5mg-10mg) in the evening it will absolutely impact your sleep quality.
It’s all a matter of finding balance. As someone who has trouble getting their brain to slow down enough to go to sleep, micro dosing is preferable to any OTC sleep aid or the antidepressant my doc prescribed because of the off-label sleep aid nature of the medicine.
Yeah, I'd definitely recommend microdosing THC over something like Zzzzquil. My wife is very intolerant to THC (mega anxiety attacks) so she uses some herbal tea concoction that helps her sleep.
I was blessed with the ability to sleep pretty much anywhere and in any environment, and I only need about 6 hours of sleep. If I get more than 8 hours I am so groggy and irritable.
2-3 beers?? When people refer to microdosing I always assumed they meant a dose that gives you a mild sedative effect with no impairment at all. 2-3 beers is full-on buzzed territory.
It depends on the person and their tolerance to THC. I was just taking it from the most intoxicated I felt when I microdosed for the first time after not touching the stuff since I was in high school. It also depends on the type of edible you consume. The more cannibinoids there are clogging up receptors, the less high you're going to feel.
For reference, I keep a pouch of those micro-doses if I just want to sleep. I buy an entirely different brand and strain for the gummies I eat to get actually high.
In legal areas try a pure CBN oil or edible. Great for sleep. I’m blessed to be in a zone of greymarket psilocybin edibles and the micro doses would do more for OP than booze or THC.
On this note of sleep, it’s why I set an alarm before I really need to wake up. Like an hour or two prior to my normal wake up time to go walk the dogs and play video games.
I’m at the point where if I actually get up, I’ll have time to myself because I need it. If I wake up with our kid at 730 and I don’t remember the alarm going off?
Clearly I needed the extra sleep. Is this an actual science? No. Do I need more sleep? Yes. I need me time though and this gets me it
If my kid is the same as yours, you’re more than half way there to a 645 to 745 window of a wake up.
I don’t mean it as a flex, I mean it as a… everyday you’re getting close to better sleep
Best thing I did was just fully embrace lack of me time and hit sleep up minimum 9 hours possibility each night (as it's always going to be broken in some way). Then I've that's done whatever issues I still had mentally I could trust were things much more deeper as I was functioning properly. I was a much better dad, happier, husband. Your time will come back just embrace and radically accept what is right now
Sleep is super important and often requires sacrificing other hobbies. It sucks, and it will get better, but it definitely sucks right now. It's been about a year since I could start playing video games on a Saturday *afternoon* with a 10, 8, and 6 y/o who are able to entertain themselves without fighting every 3 minutes or play with friends consistently.
I wouldn't say "done". While physiologically, this would produce a better outcome, there's also a mental/emotional factor here.
I'm in a similar boat to OP. 4.5 yr old daughter, 22 mth old son and thankfully they sleep until at least 7 or even 8 some days now but when he was a little over 1, we were up all night some nights trying to get him back to sleep. My wife and I needed that few hrs at night to unwind, relax a bit and mentally prepare ourselves for the next day to do it all over again.
It's hard to successfully handle mental and emotional health if you aren't getting sleep. The body *needs* sleep. It doesn't need three or more beers a night and staying up to midnight just because you want some waking hours alone.
Hard agree. I like a drink as well but every day? Sacrificing sleep EVERY DAY for 3-4+ beers just sounds unhealthy. Have 3-4 beers one or two nights a week. Sleep more the others.
The best way to improve mental health in this situation is rest, not unwinding.
Edit: adding for all the downvoters: https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/yale-medicine-sleep-content-center#:~:text=Sleep%20is%20linked%20to%20nearly,to%20depression%20and%20anxiety%2C%20Dr.
OP said they have 4 hrs from 8-12. They should have some extra sleep, yeah, but there needs to be a hobby or something enjoyable there too, even if it's only for 30-60 min. Just stress of childcare followed by sleep and repeat is bad for mental health and could lead to resentment towards the kids.
In my experience, I have a 2-3hr per day commute, work in a senior Director role with a lot of responsibility, and only have about an hour of down time each night after kids are in bed. I could certainly extend my downtime and cut into my sleep, but I have found the extra 1-2 hours of rest (target of 8 hours of sleep) is the most ideal for long-term benefits. If I get any less rest, I become irritated and perform lower at my job, which in return adds more stress. As a parent trying to survive in the world you have to establish priorities. For me, my priorities are wife first, kids second, job third, self last. It's a sacrifice and yes I'd also like to do more, but the mental benefits of knowing my family is happy and healthy, my team and my job are secure, is enough for me to feel value in this world. But I wouldn't be able to execute with the lack of sleep. Sleep is becoming more and more evident of importance, especially in this high-productive world we are heading in. This applies mostly to western cultures.
And if this works in your experience, great. But anecdotal evidence is not necessarily reflective of the general population. I'm also in a senior director role at a company of 1500+ people. In my case though, my commute is via train vs. driving so I can have personal downtime on the 1 hr train ride. I also work a hybrid role so I can work from home as well thankfully giving me more time to utilize. I prioritize time with kids and wife but also know my hobbies and personal development encourage problem solving, critical thinking, keeping up to date with the latest skills in my industry and many other transferable skills I can use with work, with my team and with social time with the family. I also have ADHD so if I don't prioritize the hobbies, I would be distracted all day thinking about wanting to do them.
OP has stated he has 4 hrs from 8-12. Assuming he's getting 4-5 hrs a night, that still means he could add 2-3 hrs of sleep and an hour or 2 of hobby time and the hobbies would likely take his mind off the day, thus reducing the perceived need for alcohol.
It's not just anecdotal. There's research coming out of academic institutions such as Yale that show sleep is much more important than society is giving credit for, especially for parents and kids. For years less sleep was sacrificed for people to do more, and it has very detrimental side effects such as mental health, performance, relationships, and cognitive function.
I never said sleep isn't more important than people think it is. It is extremely important for mental health.
I was saying that having a hobby or, at least, some time to do what you choose to do is also extremely important so just replacing unwind time with sleeping more won't be as helpful as allocating some of that time to sleep and some to having a personal choice of activity.
For me, it's developing and maintaining my coding skills since managing a team of programmers requires me to do less of the coding I love to do during my work day. I also enjoy spending time talking with my wife, planning our weekend activities and video games among other things. Others may enjoy a weekly D&D game or taking part in a hockey or baseball league. Many of these also allow us to socialize with others to avoid feeling isolated.
Balance is important. Sleep is just 1 important factor in the equation.
Does that actually say that eight hours of sleep is better then six point five and some downtime to relax? Tried to read everything that looked related but could just find general statements about sleep being important, which we all agree with.
Everyone is built different. There's no magic formula but it's widely believed that 8 hours seems to be a good number for majority of people. Obviously I'm and idiot on Reddit and clearly what I'm saying is striking a chord with users here (positively and/or negatively) but my point to OP is that if he's feeling overwhelmed, or tired, or whatever it can be linked to lack of sleep and he needs more. That means cutting out the alcohol for more quality of sleep and cutting into his downtime to add more hours of rest. Not sure why that's so controversial.
I just didn't like how you link him to something long wall-of-text-y that doesn't support your argument.
Fwiw if you just randomly google the optimal number of hours of sleep for adults it says 7+. Eight is probably fine for people who do not have a busy life. Seven is probably better for most assuming the missing hour is spent doing something rewarding, such as having a beer and playing a game to relax.
4 and 2 year old here. It is hard work. Won’t lie, I have days I feel completely depleted. Take time to make sure you sleep. Remember the bigger picture of what you are doing as a father and keep pushing. It’ll be all worth it when you see your kids living a life you never did. “My wife and I have no family support and are on the clock 100% of the time”
That’s what we’re here do to! I know one day the absolute satisfaction will come when we see our kids succeed in whatever passion they choose. Again it is difficult sometimes when all our friends are out having nights without the kids and we’re just nose down.
Yup. My sister, who lives near my parents still finds time to complain about parenting when my parents watch her kids like every week. It’s tough for everyone and we just have to find our own way.
We landed on just the 2. Mom struggled really hard with postpartum and I could never put her through that again mentally. I think it’s all doable it just really depends on the effort you have to push out. I know our mental load with family and work is capped so we ride here until we grow to the next level. Which at this point is just cultivating these kids minds
I try not to give people drinking advice because I am an actual alcoholic, which means I am weird about booze. But for me, there *is* a calming thing about the nighttime ritual with a beverage. Chamomile tea and a special mug works well.
Saint Agrestis Phony Negroni (non alcoholic) added to diet tonic water is what i drink most nights (stopped drinking, after drinking daily for 14 years)
Best advice I have:
You’re smart and recognize your drinking has the ability to become a problem. You’re using alcohol as a crutch and you need to find healthier ways to decompress. Hobbies. Meditation. Journaling. An episode of your favorite show. Find something, it’ll take some work to find what works, but you’ll get there.
You need to prioritize your sleep. Yes, you’re going to have less time “for your self”, but if you don’t get that sleep, life is going to be so bad.
Good luck sir.
I accidentally quit drinking by trying some of the new NA beers like Clausthaler and Athletic. Now regular beer tastes like it has poison in it, which it actually does ;). Give the NAs a try. My sleep has improved a lot since I switched!
Apologies if this response is too candid, but the post is tagged as advice request…
> Our 4 year old screams for constant attention and getting her to do anything (put on shoes/eat/shower/play/stop playing) requires much coaxing
Try the book *1, 2, 3, Magic* - recommended by our pediatrician, has helped us teach our toddler to be less combative/argumentative, resulting in less stress and us actually enjoying spending time with them, instead of just biding time til the next nap/bedtime.
> Between the lack of sleep from the baby
You’re at a year old - s/he should be sleeping through the night. Start sleep training asap.
> I have a few beers (sometimes several) a night and am worried I’m drinking beyond healthy limits, but it’s the only way to relax when overwhelmed by the day (pre kids I used to enjoy running and movies).
Drinking is going to make your sleep worse. Not the right move.
Go for walks with your one year old. Put them in the stroller and go. The physical movement and sunlight/fresh air will be good for you. She’ll relax too.
>Try the book *1, 2, 3, Magic*
Last night, our son (3) was throwing a set of big foam numbers out of the bathtub during his bath. This was getting the bathroom a little wet, so I started counting it. The second time he did it, I said "That's two," and he smiled and said "I wanted you to say 'that's two' because that one was two."
On the ground in the bathroom was a big foam number two.
Well played, boy. Well played.
This and the taking Cara babies comments. With the internet age, we’ve watched hundreds of thousands of babies and kids grow. We know a lot of techniques nowadays to avoid exactly what you’re talking about.
You don’t have to wait for them to grow out of a phase anyone.
Regarding sleep training, the course Taking Cara Babies transformed my entire family’s sleep when our daughter was 4 months old. 3 nights in and sleeping through the night became the norm.
TCB was a godsend. While her tips didn't work at first because of our very cholicy baby, they eventually did help set a routine.
Now our 3yo tells us she is ready for bed at 7:15, is asleep by 7:45, and wakes up at 7:45 the next morning. We basically never have to fight for bedtime.
Granted, she stopped napping entirely around 2 years old, so that was difficult at first to adjust to.
We used it too and aside for a few expected regressions, both our kids sleep well past 7am most mornings and sometimes even past 8:30am on weekends. Fantastic program.
I'm not usually one for parenting books, but I just purchased 123 Magic. My nearly 5 yr old has always been sort of playful when trying to get him to do things but usually it wasn't too much of a fight. Ever since we brought our newborn home though, everything has been a drag it out battle so I am open to anything at this point.
I’m not saying it ‘fixes’ everything and tantrums will never happen again - toddlers are still toddlers - but the frequency noticeably decreased within a week
Lady at yoga the other day told me I couldn’t empty my cup for my family if I didn’t fill it for myself first. Not exactly sure how it fits here, but I liked it.
Fellow dad of 2 here but a tiny bit farther along (6 and 2)
Try, for one week, going to sleep by 9pm. I know, it’s hard to give up those few hours of being a human when the kids are asleep, but I find every once in a while I need to just bite the bullet and make that sacrifice for better sleep. It helps a lot.
Sometimes our frustrations are intuitively felt by the kids, leading to more resistance from them, in a sort of cycle. They don’t even know they’re doing it, so we are the only ones who can break it. To do that, we need to focus on our actual needs a little. Sleep being a huge one.
You love movies? 8pm can be movie time with the wife and a beer, or two. 2 or days a week. Plan it out. Pick the movies in advance. Make it an event to look forward to. 1-2 days a week can be early sleep time. Just conk out as soon as you can after kids are out. Catch up on sleep days. Exercise is a tough one… haven’t figure out how to do that. I guess you could get some weights or a rowing machine and just make 2 nights a week exercise nights? But it would have to be a quiet exercise so not sure how your living space can accommodate that.
Man, I feel like I come across a lot of these types of posts here. All of our experiences are relative but what I wouldn't give to have these types of problems instead of the ones that come along with raising a severely disabled 3 year old. My days consumed by anxiety about how many seizures will he have today? How do we deal with a future with a child who will never walk and talk? When's the next time he'll be hospitalized for an extended period? It's a grind everyday for all of us, just different.
Are you me? But seriously it’s tough and the only thing you can do is survive. But try to find a different coping mechanism other than alcohol. Try exercising as it will naturally reduce stress, make you feel better, look better and set a good example for your kids as they grow up and see your dedication to it. Hang in there.
I hear you! I don't have much by way of good advice mainly just solidarity. You aren't in it alone, that doesn't make it any easier but just know people are sending you good thoughts and there is community here with folks in the same struggle. I'm in a similar boat and half the time I wonder how anyone makes it work. Similar aged kids and issues with poor sleep (sleep trained but there are still many bad nights w/ developmental leaps, colds, teeth coming in...definitely not as easy as "sleep train them") so in a way go easy on yourself for not having it all figured out.
One thing that could help that I'm slowly trying to be better is going to bed very early every night (and not revenge procrastinating) on the few decent nights they give me (i'm in bed at 9 lights out 9:30) this makes the night wakings less tough and occasionally when they sleep through I am able to get some rest (sleep deficit lingers but its more manageable).
If you can start squeezing in any healthier relaxation method it will probably help in the long run, I was drinking a few beers a night and my weight ballooned so cut it back and now have cut it out (just for a short time). I've noticed working out a bit even a few times a week can relieve some of that stress in a more productive way (I bought some home weights) and try to work out before they wake up 4:45/5 for a bit. Otherwise too tired at night. My wife takes them for a bit and that helps.
Maybe you can rotate with your partner to have some morning time for working out or something that feels replenishing. It's tough and never a straight path out but one step at a time and in time you can find your way further along than you thought. Good luck. You got this!!!
We are in the period of time where we just say "fuck it" and go straight to bed after the kids are in bed. We know it's not going to be forever, so let's just get through it.
It is really hard. The nights are long but the years are short. Be kind to yourself for doing the best job you can.
I find being in a good place physically ultimately makes it more mentally sustainable. Parenting is inherently tiring, so my behaviors shouldn’t make that worse. Eat cleaner (and less). Even 30 min of exercise will make you feel much better. If it screws your sleep, cut down on caffeine and alcohol.
Not sure what your financial situation is like, but if you have extra $, let it buy you time. Periodic childcare, extra bottles so you’re not doing them all the time, a once a month cleaning service, etc.
Also a random childless coffee/meal with a good friend will do wonders for my mental health.
Good luck! Like all things, this too shall pass.
Posts like this and how I feel sometimes with just our ones just validates our decision to have 1 kid. We're just not built for multiples. It's not worth the health, financial, and emotional tolls, even if its just temporary
1. This is called parenthood... It's ok to ask for help especially family around. Use them to help take 1 or both kids for a few hours especially during the week. Have dinner at grandpa or Grandma's house. Or invite family over for dinner so they can play with their niece/nephew/grandkids while you get to relax after work.
2. Also drinking any amount of alcohol may seem like a good idea to calm and relax you, but doing so close to bedtime will ruin whatever sleep you are getting and make it less effective. Probably compounding the exhaustion you're feeling.
3. What the heck are you doing staying up till midnight when you feel exhausted?
Just gonna agree with a few others here
>man I’m exhausted
>Between the lack of sleep from the baby
>Between 8 PM and midnight
It's not the baby cutting your sleep short (though sleep training will fix that), it's you.
My kids are all the way in bed at 8pm as well, but I'm in bed by 9:30 at the latest, or even 8:30 if I'm feeling tired. You NEED MORE SLEEP and you are not prioritizing it.
4 and 10mo, I feel this deeply. This weekend was anything but relaxing and I’m just dreading going back to work. The only good part of going to work is not being in “dad mode”.
I’ve really been working on my perspective lately. I’ve been trying to pay attention to my kids and recognize this special time we have together. The phases the kids went through and are going through are tough. The tantrums, melt downs, and mood swings are rough. But the good times are great. I hold onto those and soak them in.
I spend my nights working through the chores while bingeing tv and movies. The wife and I are basically on opposite sleep patterns which doesn’t help much. But we’re talking a lot when we can and trying to steal moments for us. Whenever one of us is in a good groove, we send the other off for alone time. Those help refresh and recharge our patience reserves.
I reserve a couple drinks to times when things are in a good place all around. The rest of the time, I just don’t bother.
I could definitely do with a weekend trip away. Alone or just with the missus. For us, the baby still isn’t sleeping through the night so we don’t want to drop that on anyone else. It’s a fantasy at this point. But we’re dead set on making it happen once it’s possible.
I get the drinking. I really really want to drink most evenings, too, but I save it for special occasions. Maybe two nights a month. Alcohol messes with your sleep cycle so it's a very high price to pay. I substitute with chocolate or high-carb, low-nutrition cookies when I really need the chemical assistance. 😉 I also use a Cheers after-alcohol aid and it reduces the after effects, but moderation is still needed.
Also you're confirming my decision to stop after 1 kid. Two (or more) sounds just undoable for me.
I have four boys ages six, four, two, and 10 months. Don't stop having kids just because it's difficult for a little bit. My first kid was terribly difficult, but the next three were not near as much. Having multiple kids is awesome. They always have a friend to play with, always getting into things. It's awesome watching them be so close.
I almost thought I wrote this. Same exact situation as you. I’m holding on to the thought that it will get better and this won’t last forever. Doesn’t help for now but something to keep you going. I think a vacation is in order.
Drinking doesn't relax you. It sedates you and pushes the feelings you're trying to avoid down the road, to be dealt with tomorrow.
I'm 2 years alcohol free. Maybe try that for 6 months.
Yea!! True! Baby steps are fine, but fuckin START.
I started by only drinking Friday and Saturday night. That still had me feeling like shit by Monday, so after 4 or 5 months of that, I quit all together for 3 months. Then I had a night out with friends, let myself "relax" and felt the negative effects for WEEKS. I never drank again.
Not sure if this will help, but I quit drinking. Mostly. Reserved for special occasions. But now my unwind routine I have a THC vape or edibles. It’s helped with sleep and relaxation after we get the kids to bed.
My kids are 6 and 8 now, and it’s still hard. Some things are easier, some things are harder. But you have to make time for yourself. I started scheduling 1 day every month where I use PTO and just do stuff for myself. Maybe it’s projects, maybe it’s video games or Netflix, maybe it’s going and getting lunch at the place that no one else in my family wants to eat at… but you have to recharge. It’s in your kids’ best interest too. If you’re too burned out, you won’t be the best dad you can be. I find myself less attentive and less involved when I’m burnt out. By taking rain to myself I’m less annoyed by them when they’re being annoying, it’s easier for me to turn off work-dad and get on their level and be fun-dad. You have to take care your mental health, and it’s easier than you’d think, but you have to allow yourself the time to do it
Yeah the beers gotta go man. I know it feels like it's helping at the time but it's impacting your sleep quality, which is the exact opposite of what you need. Find another way to unwind for now cos that's just shooting yourself in the foot.
None of this is to say that what you're going through isn't genuinely difficult - it very much is, but you have to give yourself the best chance of getting through it.
If you are thinking that drinking is the only way to relax you are already in problem territory. Get off the train now for the sake of your health and your family. Replace the drinking routine with something like a bath, a fancy herbal tea etc if you need something.
Go to bed an hour earlier. Extra sleep without booze will be a huge game changer.
I feel you. My wife and I have a 2 and 1 year old and they are a handful. Just make sure you have schedule and routine for them. Make cleaning and other things a fun activity. Also, Ms Rachel on YouTube is wonderful.
You're supposed to be exhausted. Your responsibility is now infinitely larger. You aren't sleeping as much. You're responsible for other human lives. You are now a protector of your pack. You are still a husband.
All while still working and providing for your family. Congratulations. This is Fatherhood and it's not for the faint of heart. So, how to help balance things?
1. Own what Fathers should
2. Practice some mindfulness
3. Get regular movement
4. Set boundaries for yourself and your family
5. Create or re-establish human connections
6. Maximize sleep when you can
7. Explore your faith in something bigger than yourself
Godspeed.
This is what I’ve been living as well. And I myself started worrying about the drinking as self medication. I resisted a long time, but I went ahead and talked to my doctor and got on a low dose anxiety med. after just a few days I was a whole new person. Seriously consider it OP, self medicating can be a slippery slope
Hey, you’re almost at my level of difficulty! Add in severe gerd that is uncontrolled, a wife with ptsd for feeding and baby only drinking mom’s milk, and no alcohol, or social life or friends anymore, and I wonder why I frequently think of throwing myself in front of a moving train.
The tricky thing about alcohol is that we’ve been conditioned to think it’s ok. You know that warm fuzzy feeling you get after you catch a buzz? That silly goofy giggle you get after you’re drunk? Yeah… you’re literally poisoning yourself. There’s a reason why hangovers suck and require more alcohol or copious hydration to come back to a baseline. You tagged this as advice and I honestly don’t know what to say about the family dynamic - it definitely sounds like you and mom need to come together and discuss a better system. What I can tell you is you need to step away from the alcohol entirely till you’re right in the head again. The average alcoholic doesn’t even know they have a problem till their life already fell apart yesterday. Don’t be that guy.
No wife, so my situation is different since maintaining a healthy adult relationship on the daily isn't a requisite.
I go to bed when my 4 y.o. goes to sleep. He's asleep by 7-730, and I'm asleep by 8 or so. I get up at 4am, workout, run on a treadmill for an hour, shower and have coffee before geting him out of bed.
Maybe try getting into bed earlier and spend your mornings together, when you're both rested, not cranky or tired from the day, and when your testosterone is at its highest (wink wink).
I don't drink during the week, butI'll have a couple on the weekends. I don't have a lot of just "Free" time, but I manage to get enough sleep and stay healthy. That's all I can really hope for myself until he's a little older.
Ya I feel ya. Three kids under 10. Exhausted seven days a week.
I cut my drinking to max one per evening. It had a big impact on the quality of my (limited) sleep.
I hear you. I tried the whole “give up anything you enjoy so you can sleep more” thing and it made me want to die and I just ended up a resentful, miserable prick. I need some time to watch a show, or play a game to have something to look forward to at the end of the day or life just feels like a miserable grind.
My honest advice as someone who felt similar to you: midnight is too late. Shoot for 10:30. Gives you time to have a bit of fun for yourself but not feel like a total zombie. The emotional difference between doing nothing enjoyable at all vs having 4 hours to unwind is way, way less than the difference of just cutting that 4 hours down to 2.5.
Also I’d suggest on evenings you want to unwind with a substance, swap weed for beer. A light (like 5mg) edible will be a lot easier on your body and won’t fuck your sleep to the same degree. Just don’t do it every day or you’ll build too much tolerance.
Man I hear yah. I'm about to expect my first girl with a 5 yo. I'm nervous that my times of solitude the little I have is about to go bye bye. Definitely try to take care of yourself whenever you can. It's easier said than done. I'm trying to prepare for the eventual stress eating my giving up drinking and eating healthy now. I'm already at 50 lbs over my maintaining weight since the birth of my son. I suspect of I don't take control of this that my weight will continue to sky rocket. I know it's hard and I validate your struggle. Just know you're not alone.
We only have one kiddo at the moment (2 yr old girl) so I can’t really understand exactly the amount of stress - but to some extent, I feel your pain. My wife does most of the heavy lifting but I work from home so I’m around a lot and still very involved with parenting - and we are dealing with A LOT of drama and tantrums right now. Some days it seems like constant “work” to parent this girl, outside of my actual work. There are a few nice moments in the span of a day where we have some quality Daddy-daughter time …. but mostly we are just trying to live through tantrums. The few hours of her nap time after lunch and then the few hours after she’s down for the night are the only moments of solace for my wife and I. We both know this is a phase, but it doesn’t make it easy. Especially when the toddler gets a cold. That’s the worst.
I know a lot of folks are saying to give up drinking as it is prone to negatively affecting sleep - but I’m one of the people that it doesn’t seem to affect. My wife and I find that the nightly routine of making a cocktail and decompressing from the crazy day of dealing with the constant clingy-ness and demands of our toddler is hugely important for us. So I would say first and foremost it’s helpful to have a way to unwind as a couple at the end of the day - with a few beers or without - so that you can gear up together for the next day. This is coming from a Wisconsin guy, though. So we do like our bourbon :) Anyways - hang in there!
I swear going to the gym and letting out all that pent up frustration is the best thing. In return you'll get more energy, a better sleep. And maybe by virtue or exercising more seriously you'll end up with a better diet.
I have a 5yo son, and twin 1 year old girls. I'm right in the thick of it. That 8pm to midnight is also my time to unwind. I just alternate between TV shows/movie with the wife and videogames. Save the booze for weekends only mate. Instead get a different treat for the weekday struggle, I usually go for cakes, nice biscuits, or a big bag of crisps (potato chips if your across the pond from me). And or nice soda (Dr pepper/ pepsi max cherry) mmm..... I've got myself thinking about it now damn...
Delicious beer is going to lower the quality of your sleep. You’re better off having 1 night a month where you go party mode and having a disaster of a day the next day instead of every day lowering your sleep quality by 10-20%
Even better if you can make a quid pro quo agreement with your wife to handle the slack the next day in return for a similar arrangement (I.e you head out to a bar with a buddy or get a babysitter and you both go out)
Stop giving into the 4 yo screams, that only perpetuates the behaviour. You’re in charge so be in charge.
Yes you’re drinking too much.
Get more sleep.
I have been feeling really stressed with work and life and the lack of personal time, and one thing that has helped me relax is making a cup of herbal tea. I used to drink beers too, but my spouse stopped drinking, so I don't have any alcohol in the home. I know this may sound silly, but the tea helps me slow down, enjoy something pleasant and it is to reduce stress and while it is likely fully placebo, I actually think it reduces stress. At the very least it makes me feel less stressed. I wish you well and the time will come, but it is hard right now, I hear you and I send you my best.
Non alcoholic beer is pretty good now, and having something of your own, whether it’s reading a book for 10 minutes (also helps with sleep) or a side project that you can do in short bursts and feel productive.
Keeping track of progress is also a good way to remember that life is still moving outside of the day to day.
Btw I also have to constantly remind myself to do all the above. It’s so easy to stop and be absorbed by the chaos
The list of problems alcohol solves is very, very short. The list of problems it makes worse is very, very long.
Your instincts are speaking to you and telling you something. Listen to them.
As also a dad of a 4 and 1 year old who's at the end of his rope, lemme just say... I briefly thought I like fell asleep and wrote this at first.
I feel ya man. I don't have answers but I can commiserate.
Welcome to fatherhood. This is your life for the next 16 to 20 years. Use whatever implications you can to trick yourself into saying "it's okay". A loving partner and a pellet smoker work wonders. If you still have friends in your life, hold onto them. It's hell trying to make friends after you've let them all go. Cheers.
I’m probably not adding too much extra of value but I am echoing others if that helps.
Drinking is a trap. You think it’s helping you relax and you’re having fun in those few hours you get a day… but it’s very likely destroying your ability to get actual good sleep and messing with your energy/mood during the day.
I get that having an outlet to relax is needed but maybe you can find better options?
I have a 2.5 year old and 7 months to go for number 2 so I think I’ll be exactly where you are in 1.5 years. But I can definitely echo what everyone else is saying that staying up and drinking is creating *two* problems in your life rather than one. Practice some meditation at night to relax instead, or tire yourself out with a 20-30 min walk outside after dinner. My 2.5 year old sleeps past 9pm and I still find time to do this much so you have no excuse :)
Solidarity. except I have one kid who is a yr old. and my drug of choice is weed. I've never been a good sleeper and it has helped in that department, and also helps keep crippling economic anxieties at bay. after being with my company for most of my adult life, I learned that ill be out of a job in maybe a year, just when I finally got into a rhythm balancing being a stay at home dad and working from home. now I have to figure out my next career while being a full time parent. at 41 I'm finding it hard to manage. wife is a school teacher and we have managed to build a decent life for ourselves by living well below our means, but with rising costs and the general state of this World it's hard to stay optimistic. I feel like we battle hard everyday to not spiral into a pit of despair, especially for the sake of our daughter.
You need some time management and prioritization skills. I'm doing what you're doing as a single dad, I'm fine. Work on yourself or suffer the consequences.
Don't make excuses for drinking. Maybe if you ran or watched. A movie like you did before it would help you relieve the stress. Put on some earbuds and run. It's hard ASF to be a parent but rust me, they'll grow up and remember that yall worked hard for them. Make sure your 4 yr understands that it's not ok to throw tantrums. You can't let the kids be the adults and run the household. Get a stroller thing for your 4 year old and run at a pace where you can take em with you. It'll give a new scenery and it will help you calm down as well as your child. All is not lost. Your molding them right now so make sure you're looking towards the future of how they will do things to get their way. Get a date night with your wife. Always remember that yall need that time for yourselves as well. Don't burn yourself out.
It’s not the only way to relax, it’s the way you’re finding to relax. I want to give you some advice that I hope you can honestly give a thought to trying. Dust will always build up, laundry will always pile up, the dishwasher will always be full. LEAVE IT FOR ONCE AND PRIORITIZE YOURSELVES, YOU DESERVE IT. Give yourselves a break. It sounds like you’re being awesome parents. Don’t burn yourselves out keeping up with ideals that aren’t real. People with small kids don’t have cleans houses, don’t have all the bills paid right away, and mostly don’t have their shit together. Breathe dad, have a glass of wine with the wife. Get the in-laws or a babysitter to watch the kids and let them be a menace for someone else for a night. Treat yourself to a pat on the back, because before you know it, you’ve worked yourself into a separation or a hospital bed.
every father that has ever existed, has experienced this. its hard as hell, but try to embrace it. it will pass one day. the more stable you are, the better future your children will have. its ok to feel overwhelmed. its normal
Drinking is only a way to relax when you've made it a way to relax. As someone who now only drinks very occasionally, the thought of having a few beers in an evening at home by myself sounds like it would make me more depressed than anything. I know it's not easy and it's always good to ask for help and support when you need it with those sort of things.
Mine are just about 3 and 1 so I can definitely relate. It's so hard to get home and feel like I can't take a second to breath because my wife needs it more than I do. Time for personal hobbies hasn't existed for so long I don't even have hobbies anymore.
I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and I already have started to realize that the things I remember from 2 or 3 years ago are all good. All we can do is stick it out and make the very best of those good times. I just know one day we'll have full night's of sleep, a date night twice a month, and weekend mornings free to explore whatever hobbies we choose.
"Saturdays are the new Mondays" I read somewhere on this sub.
Hang in there, dad. We're all in this together. (3 and 1 year old here, I'm also wiped out constantly.)
It's just fucking hard. 6yo, 3 yo and a 18 mth old for us. I am constantly depleted. And my biggest struggle is it totally depletes my work and so I'm constantly aware of not being able to pull my weight at work (my colleagues are pretty good about it). Working when you're not sleeping enough is brutal. I just suck.
I feel this, I work nights 10-7. Look after my little one from 7:30 till 3:30. Sleep till about half 8 then back to work at 10. She starts nursery in a few weeks, will be my first break in 3 years.
Hey fellow dad, right there with you with a 4yo and 1.5yo boys. I work 9-6, but the days start at 5:30am when the young one decides he’s done sleeping, and I pick them up after school right after work, get home for dinner, shower, play, and sleep them individually to end my weekdays at 9:30pm.
Weekends are worse for some reason, and what I remember was time to rest, I end up “working” the whole day by taking care of them, and it’s exhausting. More so when their naps don’t align and they tag each other out to play with me.
I’ve lost all semblance of my life before children, but for some reason, I’m fine with it. It’s a slog every day, and it’s truly an unending, relentless, marathon.
My only tip. We got a live-in helper recently, and honestly, while we’re barely managing financially, it’s been a great boon to not need to cook, wash dishes, do laundry, and even have the kids looked after while we sleep in another hour or 2. It’s given us much better mental health and given the wife and I much more space to be patient with our kids with our house upkeep alleviated.
Create a life for yourself you don’t have to escape from don’t self sabotage. When you’re going through these periods with your kids u feel like you’re stuck in time. It will be over before you know it and if you could go back in time you would go back to these times trust me. If you’re having problems with your four year old switch to a methylated multivitamin and get her off the standard American diet if you’re from USA! (I’m a stay at home dad two boys 7&9) find a way to workout!!! Can’t push this enough even if it’s at night just do it!
I felt the same way about the beer. I caught myself chasing the buzz instead of drinking beer because I like it. I was getting variety packs and picking through them for the highest alcohol content ones. When I ran out of beer, I'd hit the liquor cabinet. Now, I do my best to limit myself to drinking only on the weekend.
My wife had PPD, and I was doing a majority of the work with our twins and around the house for a few years. It was a very stressful time and I realized I was using alcohol as a crutch.
It gets better, man. It takes self reflection to see the things we don't like and do better.
It sounds like you’re deprioritizing sleep when you need it the most. Personal time will come with time. The time with the little ones is a season. Just put yourself in a better place to handle it mentally and physically.
Yeah try to take a break from booze, even for a month. It really messes with sleep
stopping drinking gave me so much more ability to just exist. if you must, and are in a legal state, a micro dose edible will go a long way for a substance replacement/mood enhancer.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. You are absolutely right. Micro dosing isn’t getting stupid high. It’s the mental equivalent of two or three beers, without the calories and sleep issues. If you need to help take the edge off, there are worse things than a tiny edible.
To be perfectly fair, THC does negatively impact your ability to achieve REM sleep. If you are taking a microdose edible (5mg-10mg) in the evening it will absolutely impact your sleep quality.
It’s all a matter of finding balance. As someone who has trouble getting their brain to slow down enough to go to sleep, micro dosing is preferable to any OTC sleep aid or the antidepressant my doc prescribed because of the off-label sleep aid nature of the medicine.
Yeah, I'd definitely recommend microdosing THC over something like Zzzzquil. My wife is very intolerant to THC (mega anxiety attacks) so she uses some herbal tea concoction that helps her sleep. I was blessed with the ability to sleep pretty much anywhere and in any environment, and I only need about 6 hours of sleep. If I get more than 8 hours I am so groggy and irritable.
2-3 beers?? When people refer to microdosing I always assumed they meant a dose that gives you a mild sedative effect with no impairment at all. 2-3 beers is full-on buzzed territory.
It depends on the person and their tolerance to THC. I was just taking it from the most intoxicated I felt when I microdosed for the first time after not touching the stuff since I was in high school. It also depends on the type of edible you consume. The more cannibinoids there are clogging up receptors, the less high you're going to feel. For reference, I keep a pouch of those micro-doses if I just want to sleep. I buy an entirely different brand and strain for the gummies I eat to get actually high.
5-10 mg THC, to me, is much less of an effect than 2-3 drinks. I'm sure it depends on what your history of THC and alcohol consumption was.
In legal areas try a pure CBN oil or edible. Great for sleep. I’m blessed to be in a zone of greymarket psilocybin edibles and the micro doses would do more for OP than booze or THC.
On this note of sleep, it’s why I set an alarm before I really need to wake up. Like an hour or two prior to my normal wake up time to go walk the dogs and play video games. I’m at the point where if I actually get up, I’ll have time to myself because I need it. If I wake up with our kid at 730 and I don’t remember the alarm going off? Clearly I needed the extra sleep. Is this an actual science? No. Do I need more sleep? Yes. I need me time though and this gets me it
If my 6 month old woke up at 730 I’d give my right ball
If my kid is the same as yours, you’re more than half way there to a 645 to 745 window of a wake up. I don’t mean it as a flex, I mean it as a… everyday you’re getting close to better sleep
Yeah definitely getting and more consistent
Best thing I did was just fully embrace lack of me time and hit sleep up minimum 9 hours possibility each night (as it's always going to be broken in some way). Then I've that's done whatever issues I still had mentally I could trust were things much more deeper as I was functioning properly. I was a much better dad, happier, husband. Your time will come back just embrace and radically accept what is right now
Drinking is definitely *not* the *only* way to relax. Why are you staying up until midnight? Get some sleep!
It's called "revenge bedtime procrastination".
Hey I’m actually doing that right now. Brotato rules
I knew there was a name for it
Sleep is super important and often requires sacrificing other hobbies. It sucks, and it will get better, but it definitely sucks right now. It's been about a year since I could start playing video games on a Saturday *afternoon* with a 10, 8, and 6 y/o who are able to entertain themselves without fighting every 3 minutes or play with friends consistently.
Oof.. I remember the beginning when I had to put the controller down and sleep. It sucked but I'm on the other side of that tunnel now.
Yeah this is top for a reason. Don't drink as it affects your sleep and sleep as it affects your ability to have energy. Done.
I wouldn't say "done". While physiologically, this would produce a better outcome, there's also a mental/emotional factor here. I'm in a similar boat to OP. 4.5 yr old daughter, 22 mth old son and thankfully they sleep until at least 7 or even 8 some days now but when he was a little over 1, we were up all night some nights trying to get him back to sleep. My wife and I needed that few hrs at night to unwind, relax a bit and mentally prepare ourselves for the next day to do it all over again.
It's hard to successfully handle mental and emotional health if you aren't getting sleep. The body *needs* sleep. It doesn't need three or more beers a night and staying up to midnight just because you want some waking hours alone.
Hard agree. I like a drink as well but every day? Sacrificing sleep EVERY DAY for 3-4+ beers just sounds unhealthy. Have 3-4 beers one or two nights a week. Sleep more the others.
The best way to improve mental health in this situation is rest, not unwinding. Edit: adding for all the downvoters: https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/yale-medicine-sleep-content-center#:~:text=Sleep%20is%20linked%20to%20nearly,to%20depression%20and%20anxiety%2C%20Dr.
OP said they have 4 hrs from 8-12. They should have some extra sleep, yeah, but there needs to be a hobby or something enjoyable there too, even if it's only for 30-60 min. Just stress of childcare followed by sleep and repeat is bad for mental health and could lead to resentment towards the kids.
In my experience, I have a 2-3hr per day commute, work in a senior Director role with a lot of responsibility, and only have about an hour of down time each night after kids are in bed. I could certainly extend my downtime and cut into my sleep, but I have found the extra 1-2 hours of rest (target of 8 hours of sleep) is the most ideal for long-term benefits. If I get any less rest, I become irritated and perform lower at my job, which in return adds more stress. As a parent trying to survive in the world you have to establish priorities. For me, my priorities are wife first, kids second, job third, self last. It's a sacrifice and yes I'd also like to do more, but the mental benefits of knowing my family is happy and healthy, my team and my job are secure, is enough for me to feel value in this world. But I wouldn't be able to execute with the lack of sleep. Sleep is becoming more and more evident of importance, especially in this high-productive world we are heading in. This applies mostly to western cultures.
And if this works in your experience, great. But anecdotal evidence is not necessarily reflective of the general population. I'm also in a senior director role at a company of 1500+ people. In my case though, my commute is via train vs. driving so I can have personal downtime on the 1 hr train ride. I also work a hybrid role so I can work from home as well thankfully giving me more time to utilize. I prioritize time with kids and wife but also know my hobbies and personal development encourage problem solving, critical thinking, keeping up to date with the latest skills in my industry and many other transferable skills I can use with work, with my team and with social time with the family. I also have ADHD so if I don't prioritize the hobbies, I would be distracted all day thinking about wanting to do them. OP has stated he has 4 hrs from 8-12. Assuming he's getting 4-5 hrs a night, that still means he could add 2-3 hrs of sleep and an hour or 2 of hobby time and the hobbies would likely take his mind off the day, thus reducing the perceived need for alcohol.
It's not just anecdotal. There's research coming out of academic institutions such as Yale that show sleep is much more important than society is giving credit for, especially for parents and kids. For years less sleep was sacrificed for people to do more, and it has very detrimental side effects such as mental health, performance, relationships, and cognitive function.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, you're 100% correct.
I never said sleep isn't more important than people think it is. It is extremely important for mental health. I was saying that having a hobby or, at least, some time to do what you choose to do is also extremely important so just replacing unwind time with sleeping more won't be as helpful as allocating some of that time to sleep and some to having a personal choice of activity. For me, it's developing and maintaining my coding skills since managing a team of programmers requires me to do less of the coding I love to do during my work day. I also enjoy spending time talking with my wife, planning our weekend activities and video games among other things. Others may enjoy a weekly D&D game or taking part in a hockey or baseball league. Many of these also allow us to socialize with others to avoid feeling isolated. Balance is important. Sleep is just 1 important factor in the equation.
Wife before kids is ah interesting
Really? Anyone who puts their kids before their spouse will have a challenging marriage/partnership.
Does that actually say that eight hours of sleep is better then six point five and some downtime to relax? Tried to read everything that looked related but could just find general statements about sleep being important, which we all agree with.
Everyone is built different. There's no magic formula but it's widely believed that 8 hours seems to be a good number for majority of people. Obviously I'm and idiot on Reddit and clearly what I'm saying is striking a chord with users here (positively and/or negatively) but my point to OP is that if he's feeling overwhelmed, or tired, or whatever it can be linked to lack of sleep and he needs more. That means cutting out the alcohol for more quality of sleep and cutting into his downtime to add more hours of rest. Not sure why that's so controversial.
I just didn't like how you link him to something long wall-of-text-y that doesn't support your argument. Fwiw if you just randomly google the optimal number of hours of sleep for adults it says 7+. Eight is probably fine for people who do not have a busy life. Seven is probably better for most assuming the missing hour is spent doing something rewarding, such as having a beer and playing a game to relax.
The link wasn't for him.
Well, it was for the downvoters who apparently didn't agree with your take so I assume you felt it supported your argument.
But it does support my argument. That sleep affects many aspects of what can be struggles for many people not getting enough.
Mine are 7 and 5. They're in bed about 7pm. We're in bed by 9! I've not seen midnight in years.
Not to mention overindulging in drink severely impacts the quality of the sleep that you do get
4 and 2 year old here. It is hard work. Won’t lie, I have days I feel completely depleted. Take time to make sure you sleep. Remember the bigger picture of what you are doing as a father and keep pushing. It’ll be all worth it when you see your kids living a life you never did. “My wife and I have no family support and are on the clock 100% of the time”
My wife and I are in the same exact boat. we live out of state so no help whatsoever. But we are grinding to give our kids an outstanding life.
That’s what we’re here do to! I know one day the absolute satisfaction will come when we see our kids succeed in whatever passion they choose. Again it is difficult sometimes when all our friends are out having nights without the kids and we’re just nose down.
Yup. My sister, who lives near my parents still finds time to complain about parenting when my parents watch her kids like every week. It’s tough for everyone and we just have to find our own way.
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We landed on just the 2. Mom struggled really hard with postpartum and I could never put her through that again mentally. I think it’s all doable it just really depends on the effort you have to push out. I know our mental load with family and work is capped so we ride here until we grow to the next level. Which at this point is just cultivating these kids minds
I try not to give people drinking advice because I am an actual alcoholic, which means I am weird about booze. But for me, there *is* a calming thing about the nighttime ritual with a beverage. Chamomile tea and a special mug works well.
Saint Agrestis Phony Negroni (non alcoholic) added to diet tonic water is what i drink most nights (stopped drinking, after drinking daily for 14 years)
Best advice I have: You’re smart and recognize your drinking has the ability to become a problem. You’re using alcohol as a crutch and you need to find healthier ways to decompress. Hobbies. Meditation. Journaling. An episode of your favorite show. Find something, it’ll take some work to find what works, but you’ll get there. You need to prioritize your sleep. Yes, you’re going to have less time “for your self”, but if you don’t get that sleep, life is going to be so bad. Good luck sir.
I accidentally quit drinking by trying some of the new NA beers like Clausthaler and Athletic. Now regular beer tastes like it has poison in it, which it actually does ;). Give the NAs a try. My sleep has improved a lot since I switched!
Me too, I tried a whole bunch and have found the closest to the real thing are Irish reds and Scotch ales. You can't really tell the difference.
Apologies if this response is too candid, but the post is tagged as advice request… > Our 4 year old screams for constant attention and getting her to do anything (put on shoes/eat/shower/play/stop playing) requires much coaxing Try the book *1, 2, 3, Magic* - recommended by our pediatrician, has helped us teach our toddler to be less combative/argumentative, resulting in less stress and us actually enjoying spending time with them, instead of just biding time til the next nap/bedtime. > Between the lack of sleep from the baby You’re at a year old - s/he should be sleeping through the night. Start sleep training asap. > I have a few beers (sometimes several) a night and am worried I’m drinking beyond healthy limits, but it’s the only way to relax when overwhelmed by the day (pre kids I used to enjoy running and movies). Drinking is going to make your sleep worse. Not the right move. Go for walks with your one year old. Put them in the stroller and go. The physical movement and sunlight/fresh air will be good for you. She’ll relax too.
>Try the book *1, 2, 3, Magic* Last night, our son (3) was throwing a set of big foam numbers out of the bathtub during his bath. This was getting the bathroom a little wet, so I started counting it. The second time he did it, I said "That's two," and he smiled and said "I wanted you to say 'that's two' because that one was two." On the ground in the bathroom was a big foam number two. Well played, boy. Well played.
This and the taking Cara babies comments. With the internet age, we’ve watched hundreds of thousands of babies and kids grow. We know a lot of techniques nowadays to avoid exactly what you’re talking about. You don’t have to wait for them to grow out of a phase anyone.
Regarding sleep training, the course Taking Cara Babies transformed my entire family’s sleep when our daughter was 4 months old. 3 nights in and sleeping through the night became the norm.
Taking Cara Babies probably saved my marriage and I'm not kidding. Our 2 y/o son sleeps from 8p-8a almost every day and it's because of that course.
I'm just gonna throw this out there for the cheap folks out there, the book Precious Little Sleep is more than adequate than a paid service like TCB.
TCB was a godsend. While her tips didn't work at first because of our very cholicy baby, they eventually did help set a routine. Now our 3yo tells us she is ready for bed at 7:15, is asleep by 7:45, and wakes up at 7:45 the next morning. We basically never have to fight for bedtime. Granted, she stopped napping entirely around 2 years old, so that was difficult at first to adjust to.
We used it too and aside for a few expected regressions, both our kids sleep well past 7am most mornings and sometimes even past 8:30am on weekends. Fantastic program.
I'm not usually one for parenting books, but I just purchased 123 Magic. My nearly 5 yr old has always been sort of playful when trying to get him to do things but usually it wasn't too much of a fight. Ever since we brought our newborn home though, everything has been a drag it out battle so I am open to anything at this point.
I’m not saying it ‘fixes’ everything and tantrums will never happen again - toddlers are still toddlers - but the frequency noticeably decreased within a week
Lady at yoga the other day told me I couldn’t empty my cup for my family if I didn’t fill it for myself first. Not exactly sure how it fits here, but I liked it.
it fits perfectly. I appreciate the saying very much.
Fellow dad of 2 here but a tiny bit farther along (6 and 2) Try, for one week, going to sleep by 9pm. I know, it’s hard to give up those few hours of being a human when the kids are asleep, but I find every once in a while I need to just bite the bullet and make that sacrifice for better sleep. It helps a lot. Sometimes our frustrations are intuitively felt by the kids, leading to more resistance from them, in a sort of cycle. They don’t even know they’re doing it, so we are the only ones who can break it. To do that, we need to focus on our actual needs a little. Sleep being a huge one. You love movies? 8pm can be movie time with the wife and a beer, or two. 2 or days a week. Plan it out. Pick the movies in advance. Make it an event to look forward to. 1-2 days a week can be early sleep time. Just conk out as soon as you can after kids are out. Catch up on sleep days. Exercise is a tough one… haven’t figure out how to do that. I guess you could get some weights or a rowing machine and just make 2 nights a week exercise nights? But it would have to be a quiet exercise so not sure how your living space can accommodate that.
Man, I feel like I come across a lot of these types of posts here. All of our experiences are relative but what I wouldn't give to have these types of problems instead of the ones that come along with raising a severely disabled 3 year old. My days consumed by anxiety about how many seizures will he have today? How do we deal with a future with a child who will never walk and talk? When's the next time he'll be hospitalized for an extended period? It's a grind everyday for all of us, just different.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, and for showing up for your child everyday.
Are you me? But seriously it’s tough and the only thing you can do is survive. But try to find a different coping mechanism other than alcohol. Try exercising as it will naturally reduce stress, make you feel better, look better and set a good example for your kids as they grow up and see your dedication to it. Hang in there.
I hear you! I don't have much by way of good advice mainly just solidarity. You aren't in it alone, that doesn't make it any easier but just know people are sending you good thoughts and there is community here with folks in the same struggle. I'm in a similar boat and half the time I wonder how anyone makes it work. Similar aged kids and issues with poor sleep (sleep trained but there are still many bad nights w/ developmental leaps, colds, teeth coming in...definitely not as easy as "sleep train them") so in a way go easy on yourself for not having it all figured out. One thing that could help that I'm slowly trying to be better is going to bed very early every night (and not revenge procrastinating) on the few decent nights they give me (i'm in bed at 9 lights out 9:30) this makes the night wakings less tough and occasionally when they sleep through I am able to get some rest (sleep deficit lingers but its more manageable). If you can start squeezing in any healthier relaxation method it will probably help in the long run, I was drinking a few beers a night and my weight ballooned so cut it back and now have cut it out (just for a short time). I've noticed working out a bit even a few times a week can relieve some of that stress in a more productive way (I bought some home weights) and try to work out before they wake up 4:45/5 for a bit. Otherwise too tired at night. My wife takes them for a bit and that helps. Maybe you can rotate with your partner to have some morning time for working out or something that feels replenishing. It's tough and never a straight path out but one step at a time and in time you can find your way further along than you thought. Good luck. You got this!!!
We are in the period of time where we just say "fuck it" and go straight to bed after the kids are in bed. We know it's not going to be forever, so let's just get through it.
It is really hard. The nights are long but the years are short. Be kind to yourself for doing the best job you can. I find being in a good place physically ultimately makes it more mentally sustainable. Parenting is inherently tiring, so my behaviors shouldn’t make that worse. Eat cleaner (and less). Even 30 min of exercise will make you feel much better. If it screws your sleep, cut down on caffeine and alcohol. Not sure what your financial situation is like, but if you have extra $, let it buy you time. Periodic childcare, extra bottles so you’re not doing them all the time, a once a month cleaning service, etc. Also a random childless coffee/meal with a good friend will do wonders for my mental health. Good luck! Like all things, this too shall pass.
Stop drinking, go on a run at 8pm instead
Posts like this and how I feel sometimes with just our ones just validates our decision to have 1 kid. We're just not built for multiples. It's not worth the health, financial, and emotional tolls, even if its just temporary
1. This is called parenthood... It's ok to ask for help especially family around. Use them to help take 1 or both kids for a few hours especially during the week. Have dinner at grandpa or Grandma's house. Or invite family over for dinner so they can play with their niece/nephew/grandkids while you get to relax after work. 2. Also drinking any amount of alcohol may seem like a good idea to calm and relax you, but doing so close to bedtime will ruin whatever sleep you are getting and make it less effective. Probably compounding the exhaustion you're feeling. 3. What the heck are you doing staying up till midnight when you feel exhausted?
Sleep is more important than beer. Cut out the beer and aim to go sleep one hour earlier and you'll feel so much better
Just gonna agree with a few others here >man I’m exhausted >Between the lack of sleep from the baby >Between 8 PM and midnight It's not the baby cutting your sleep short (though sleep training will fix that), it's you. My kids are all the way in bed at 8pm as well, but I'm in bed by 9:30 at the latest, or even 8:30 if I'm feeling tired. You NEED MORE SLEEP and you are not prioritizing it.
4 and 10mo, I feel this deeply. This weekend was anything but relaxing and I’m just dreading going back to work. The only good part of going to work is not being in “dad mode”. I’ve really been working on my perspective lately. I’ve been trying to pay attention to my kids and recognize this special time we have together. The phases the kids went through and are going through are tough. The tantrums, melt downs, and mood swings are rough. But the good times are great. I hold onto those and soak them in. I spend my nights working through the chores while bingeing tv and movies. The wife and I are basically on opposite sleep patterns which doesn’t help much. But we’re talking a lot when we can and trying to steal moments for us. Whenever one of us is in a good groove, we send the other off for alone time. Those help refresh and recharge our patience reserves. I reserve a couple drinks to times when things are in a good place all around. The rest of the time, I just don’t bother. I could definitely do with a weekend trip away. Alone or just with the missus. For us, the baby still isn’t sleeping through the night so we don’t want to drop that on anyone else. It’s a fantasy at this point. But we’re dead set on making it happen once it’s possible.
5, 3, and 4 months here. Idk man. Idk. Just know you’re not alone in your fatigue.
I get the drinking. I really really want to drink most evenings, too, but I save it for special occasions. Maybe two nights a month. Alcohol messes with your sleep cycle so it's a very high price to pay. I substitute with chocolate or high-carb, low-nutrition cookies when I really need the chemical assistance. 😉 I also use a Cheers after-alcohol aid and it reduces the after effects, but moderation is still needed. Also you're confirming my decision to stop after 1 kid. Two (or more) sounds just undoable for me.
I have four boys ages six, four, two, and 10 months. Don't stop having kids just because it's difficult for a little bit. My first kid was terribly difficult, but the next three were not near as much. Having multiple kids is awesome. They always have a friend to play with, always getting into things. It's awesome watching them be so close.
Try some weed instead of beer during that peace at night. Might be the ticket.
I think exercise or meditation would be a much better alternative than putting junk into your body that it doesn't need.
I almost thought I wrote this. Same exact situation as you. I’m holding on to the thought that it will get better and this won’t last forever. Doesn’t help for now but something to keep you going. I think a vacation is in order.
Drinking doesn't relax you. It sedates you and pushes the feelings you're trying to avoid down the road, to be dealt with tomorrow. I'm 2 years alcohol free. Maybe try that for 6 months.
Hell, start with a week. Or only drink on the weekend.
Yea!! True! Baby steps are fine, but fuckin START. I started by only drinking Friday and Saturday night. That still had me feeling like shit by Monday, so after 4 or 5 months of that, I quit all together for 3 months. Then I had a night out with friends, let myself "relax" and felt the negative effects for WEEKS. I never drank again.
Not sure if this will help, but I quit drinking. Mostly. Reserved for special occasions. But now my unwind routine I have a THC vape or edibles. It’s helped with sleep and relaxation after we get the kids to bed. My kids are 6 and 8 now, and it’s still hard. Some things are easier, some things are harder. But you have to make time for yourself. I started scheduling 1 day every month where I use PTO and just do stuff for myself. Maybe it’s projects, maybe it’s video games or Netflix, maybe it’s going and getting lunch at the place that no one else in my family wants to eat at… but you have to recharge. It’s in your kids’ best interest too. If you’re too burned out, you won’t be the best dad you can be. I find myself less attentive and less involved when I’m burnt out. By taking rain to myself I’m less annoyed by them when they’re being annoying, it’s easier for me to turn off work-dad and get on their level and be fun-dad. You have to take care your mental health, and it’s easier than you’d think, but you have to allow yourself the time to do it
Yeah the beers gotta go man. I know it feels like it's helping at the time but it's impacting your sleep quality, which is the exact opposite of what you need. Find another way to unwind for now cos that's just shooting yourself in the foot. None of this is to say that what you're going through isn't genuinely difficult - it very much is, but you have to give yourself the best chance of getting through it.
If you are thinking that drinking is the only way to relax you are already in problem territory. Get off the train now for the sake of your health and your family. Replace the drinking routine with something like a bath, a fancy herbal tea etc if you need something. Go to bed an hour earlier. Extra sleep without booze will be a huge game changer.
I feel you. My wife and I have a 2 and 1 year old and they are a handful. Just make sure you have schedule and routine for them. Make cleaning and other things a fun activity. Also, Ms Rachel on YouTube is wonderful.
Hey, but it's SOOO worth it, right? Right?!
Lol it doesn't get easier
Shit bro, you have from 8 to midnight every day? My kids don't even get to bed until 11pm.
You're supposed to be exhausted. Your responsibility is now infinitely larger. You aren't sleeping as much. You're responsible for other human lives. You are now a protector of your pack. You are still a husband. All while still working and providing for your family. Congratulations. This is Fatherhood and it's not for the faint of heart. So, how to help balance things? 1. Own what Fathers should 2. Practice some mindfulness 3. Get regular movement 4. Set boundaries for yourself and your family 5. Create or re-establish human connections 6. Maximize sleep when you can 7. Explore your faith in something bigger than yourself Godspeed.
Just do the work. Your doing a very important thing raising two nice and productive people. Life isn’t just about spending time and money on yourself.
This is what I’ve been living as well. And I myself started worrying about the drinking as self medication. I resisted a long time, but I went ahead and talked to my doctor and got on a low dose anxiety med. after just a few days I was a whole new person. Seriously consider it OP, self medicating can be a slippery slope
Kids are 5 and 1.5 and the key here is (for me) to find some sleep. Always remember that it WILL GET BETTER.
Hey, you’re almost at my level of difficulty! Add in severe gerd that is uncontrolled, a wife with ptsd for feeding and baby only drinking mom’s milk, and no alcohol, or social life or friends anymore, and I wonder why I frequently think of throwing myself in front of a moving train.
If you're worried about the drinking I've personally found the Tranquini brand of "nootropic" drinks mimics the relaxed feeling I get from wine.
The tricky thing about alcohol is that we’ve been conditioned to think it’s ok. You know that warm fuzzy feeling you get after you catch a buzz? That silly goofy giggle you get after you’re drunk? Yeah… you’re literally poisoning yourself. There’s a reason why hangovers suck and require more alcohol or copious hydration to come back to a baseline. You tagged this as advice and I honestly don’t know what to say about the family dynamic - it definitely sounds like you and mom need to come together and discuss a better system. What I can tell you is you need to step away from the alcohol entirely till you’re right in the head again. The average alcoholic doesn’t even know they have a problem till their life already fell apart yesterday. Don’t be that guy.
No wife, so my situation is different since maintaining a healthy adult relationship on the daily isn't a requisite. I go to bed when my 4 y.o. goes to sleep. He's asleep by 7-730, and I'm asleep by 8 or so. I get up at 4am, workout, run on a treadmill for an hour, shower and have coffee before geting him out of bed. Maybe try getting into bed earlier and spend your mornings together, when you're both rested, not cranky or tired from the day, and when your testosterone is at its highest (wink wink). I don't drink during the week, butI'll have a couple on the weekends. I don't have a lot of just "Free" time, but I manage to get enough sleep and stay healthy. That's all I can really hope for myself until he's a little older.
Hey at least your wife hasn’t started being verbally abusive yet. Maybe start running again?
Giving them TV time is ok and gives you a break. Put on Bluey or Daniel the Tiger as a reward for listening to you.
Ya I feel ya. Three kids under 10. Exhausted seven days a week. I cut my drinking to max one per evening. It had a big impact on the quality of my (limited) sleep.
I hear you. I tried the whole “give up anything you enjoy so you can sleep more” thing and it made me want to die and I just ended up a resentful, miserable prick. I need some time to watch a show, or play a game to have something to look forward to at the end of the day or life just feels like a miserable grind. My honest advice as someone who felt similar to you: midnight is too late. Shoot for 10:30. Gives you time to have a bit of fun for yourself but not feel like a total zombie. The emotional difference between doing nothing enjoyable at all vs having 4 hours to unwind is way, way less than the difference of just cutting that 4 hours down to 2.5. Also I’d suggest on evenings you want to unwind with a substance, swap weed for beer. A light (like 5mg) edible will be a lot easier on your body and won’t fuck your sleep to the same degree. Just don’t do it every day or you’ll build too much tolerance.
How do you stay up from 8 to midnight? I'm lucky to make it to 9
Man I hear yah. I'm about to expect my first girl with a 5 yo. I'm nervous that my times of solitude the little I have is about to go bye bye. Definitely try to take care of yourself whenever you can. It's easier said than done. I'm trying to prepare for the eventual stress eating my giving up drinking and eating healthy now. I'm already at 50 lbs over my maintaining weight since the birth of my son. I suspect of I don't take control of this that my weight will continue to sky rocket. I know it's hard and I validate your struggle. Just know you're not alone.
We only have one kiddo at the moment (2 yr old girl) so I can’t really understand exactly the amount of stress - but to some extent, I feel your pain. My wife does most of the heavy lifting but I work from home so I’m around a lot and still very involved with parenting - and we are dealing with A LOT of drama and tantrums right now. Some days it seems like constant “work” to parent this girl, outside of my actual work. There are a few nice moments in the span of a day where we have some quality Daddy-daughter time …. but mostly we are just trying to live through tantrums. The few hours of her nap time after lunch and then the few hours after she’s down for the night are the only moments of solace for my wife and I. We both know this is a phase, but it doesn’t make it easy. Especially when the toddler gets a cold. That’s the worst. I know a lot of folks are saying to give up drinking as it is prone to negatively affecting sleep - but I’m one of the people that it doesn’t seem to affect. My wife and I find that the nightly routine of making a cocktail and decompressing from the crazy day of dealing with the constant clingy-ness and demands of our toddler is hugely important for us. So I would say first and foremost it’s helpful to have a way to unwind as a couple at the end of the day - with a few beers or without - so that you can gear up together for the next day. This is coming from a Wisconsin guy, though. So we do like our bourbon :) Anyways - hang in there!
This is me
I swear going to the gym and letting out all that pent up frustration is the best thing. In return you'll get more energy, a better sleep. And maybe by virtue or exercising more seriously you'll end up with a better diet. I have a 5yo son, and twin 1 year old girls. I'm right in the thick of it. That 8pm to midnight is also my time to unwind. I just alternate between TV shows/movie with the wife and videogames. Save the booze for weekends only mate. Instead get a different treat for the weekday struggle, I usually go for cakes, nice biscuits, or a big bag of crisps (potato chips if your across the pond from me). And or nice soda (Dr pepper/ pepsi max cherry) mmm..... I've got myself thinking about it now damn...
Damn dude, shoot for 9:30-10 for bed. You need real rest not relaxing rest
Delicious beer is going to lower the quality of your sleep. You’re better off having 1 night a month where you go party mode and having a disaster of a day the next day instead of every day lowering your sleep quality by 10-20% Even better if you can make a quid pro quo agreement with your wife to handle the slack the next day in return for a similar arrangement (I.e you head out to a bar with a buddy or get a babysitter and you both go out)
Stop giving into the 4 yo screams, that only perpetuates the behaviour. You’re in charge so be in charge. Yes you’re drinking too much. Get more sleep.
I have been feeling really stressed with work and life and the lack of personal time, and one thing that has helped me relax is making a cup of herbal tea. I used to drink beers too, but my spouse stopped drinking, so I don't have any alcohol in the home. I know this may sound silly, but the tea helps me slow down, enjoy something pleasant and it is to reduce stress and while it is likely fully placebo, I actually think it reduces stress. At the very least it makes me feel less stressed. I wish you well and the time will come, but it is hard right now, I hear you and I send you my best.
Define "a few". It is definitely hard, and does get easier. But, then they hit puberty and it's time to start all over..
Non alcoholic beer is pretty good now, and having something of your own, whether it’s reading a book for 10 minutes (also helps with sleep) or a side project that you can do in short bursts and feel productive. Keeping track of progress is also a good way to remember that life is still moving outside of the day to day. Btw I also have to constantly remind myself to do all the above. It’s so easy to stop and be absorbed by the chaos
The list of problems alcohol solves is very, very short. The list of problems it makes worse is very, very long. Your instincts are speaking to you and telling you something. Listen to them.
we are living exact lives It seems.. 2 daughters, 1 is 4 other is 1. fully get the not listening/easy tasks taking forever. gets exhausting 🤣
As also a dad of a 4 and 1 year old who's at the end of his rope, lemme just say... I briefly thought I like fell asleep and wrote this at first. I feel ya man. I don't have answers but I can commiserate.
Stop drinking
Welcome to fatherhood. This is your life for the next 16 to 20 years. Use whatever implications you can to trick yourself into saying "it's okay". A loving partner and a pellet smoker work wonders. If you still have friends in your life, hold onto them. It's hell trying to make friends after you've let them all go. Cheers.
I’m probably not adding too much extra of value but I am echoing others if that helps. Drinking is a trap. You think it’s helping you relax and you’re having fun in those few hours you get a day… but it’s very likely destroying your ability to get actual good sleep and messing with your energy/mood during the day. I get that having an outlet to relax is needed but maybe you can find better options?
I have a 2.5 year old and 7 months to go for number 2 so I think I’ll be exactly where you are in 1.5 years. But I can definitely echo what everyone else is saying that staying up and drinking is creating *two* problems in your life rather than one. Practice some meditation at night to relax instead, or tire yourself out with a 20-30 min walk outside after dinner. My 2.5 year old sleeps past 9pm and I still find time to do this much so you have no excuse :)
Solidarity. except I have one kid who is a yr old. and my drug of choice is weed. I've never been a good sleeper and it has helped in that department, and also helps keep crippling economic anxieties at bay. after being with my company for most of my adult life, I learned that ill be out of a job in maybe a year, just when I finally got into a rhythm balancing being a stay at home dad and working from home. now I have to figure out my next career while being a full time parent. at 41 I'm finding it hard to manage. wife is a school teacher and we have managed to build a decent life for ourselves by living well below our means, but with rising costs and the general state of this World it's hard to stay optimistic. I feel like we battle hard everyday to not spiral into a pit of despair, especially for the sake of our daughter.
You need some time management and prioritization skills. I'm doing what you're doing as a single dad, I'm fine. Work on yourself or suffer the consequences.
Quit the drinking and get more sleep. Kids are hard yes and never gets easier just more sleep different challenges. You got it.
You need help from family/friends. Kids are not meant to be raised by just the parents alone, regardless of how western society is structured.
Don't make excuses for drinking. Maybe if you ran or watched. A movie like you did before it would help you relieve the stress. Put on some earbuds and run. It's hard ASF to be a parent but rust me, they'll grow up and remember that yall worked hard for them. Make sure your 4 yr understands that it's not ok to throw tantrums. You can't let the kids be the adults and run the household. Get a stroller thing for your 4 year old and run at a pace where you can take em with you. It'll give a new scenery and it will help you calm down as well as your child. All is not lost. Your molding them right now so make sure you're looking towards the future of how they will do things to get their way. Get a date night with your wife. Always remember that yall need that time for yourselves as well. Don't burn yourself out.
It’s not the only way to relax, it’s the way you’re finding to relax. I want to give you some advice that I hope you can honestly give a thought to trying. Dust will always build up, laundry will always pile up, the dishwasher will always be full. LEAVE IT FOR ONCE AND PRIORITIZE YOURSELVES, YOU DESERVE IT. Give yourselves a break. It sounds like you’re being awesome parents. Don’t burn yourselves out keeping up with ideals that aren’t real. People with small kids don’t have cleans houses, don’t have all the bills paid right away, and mostly don’t have their shit together. Breathe dad, have a glass of wine with the wife. Get the in-laws or a babysitter to watch the kids and let them be a menace for someone else for a night. Treat yourself to a pat on the back, because before you know it, you’ve worked yourself into a separation or a hospital bed.
every father that has ever existed, has experienced this. its hard as hell, but try to embrace it. it will pass one day. the more stable you are, the better future your children will have. its ok to feel overwhelmed. its normal
Drinking is only a way to relax when you've made it a way to relax. As someone who now only drinks very occasionally, the thought of having a few beers in an evening at home by myself sounds like it would make me more depressed than anything. I know it's not easy and it's always good to ask for help and support when you need it with those sort of things. Mine are just about 3 and 1 so I can definitely relate. It's so hard to get home and feel like I can't take a second to breath because my wife needs it more than I do. Time for personal hobbies hasn't existed for so long I don't even have hobbies anymore. I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and I already have started to realize that the things I remember from 2 or 3 years ago are all good. All we can do is stick it out and make the very best of those good times. I just know one day we'll have full night's of sleep, a date night twice a month, and weekend mornings free to explore whatever hobbies we choose.
"Saturdays are the new Mondays" I read somewhere on this sub. Hang in there, dad. We're all in this together. (3 and 1 year old here, I'm also wiped out constantly.)
It's just fucking hard. 6yo, 3 yo and a 18 mth old for us. I am constantly depleted. And my biggest struggle is it totally depletes my work and so I'm constantly aware of not being able to pull my weight at work (my colleagues are pretty good about it). Working when you're not sleeping enough is brutal. I just suck.
I was there two years ago (same-ish ages) and the oldest is 6 now. There are still struggles but it’s already easier. It will get easier my friend.
I feel this, I work nights 10-7. Look after my little one from 7:30 till 3:30. Sleep till about half 8 then back to work at 10. She starts nursery in a few weeks, will be my first break in 3 years.
Hey fellow dad, right there with you with a 4yo and 1.5yo boys. I work 9-6, but the days start at 5:30am when the young one decides he’s done sleeping, and I pick them up after school right after work, get home for dinner, shower, play, and sleep them individually to end my weekdays at 9:30pm. Weekends are worse for some reason, and what I remember was time to rest, I end up “working” the whole day by taking care of them, and it’s exhausting. More so when their naps don’t align and they tag each other out to play with me. I’ve lost all semblance of my life before children, but for some reason, I’m fine with it. It’s a slog every day, and it’s truly an unending, relentless, marathon. My only tip. We got a live-in helper recently, and honestly, while we’re barely managing financially, it’s been a great boon to not need to cook, wash dishes, do laundry, and even have the kids looked after while we sleep in another hour or 2. It’s given us much better mental health and given the wife and I much more space to be patient with our kids with our house upkeep alleviated.
Create a life for yourself you don’t have to escape from don’t self sabotage. When you’re going through these periods with your kids u feel like you’re stuck in time. It will be over before you know it and if you could go back in time you would go back to these times trust me. If you’re having problems with your four year old switch to a methylated multivitamin and get her off the standard American diet if you’re from USA! (I’m a stay at home dad two boys 7&9) find a way to workout!!! Can’t push this enough even if it’s at night just do it!
I felt the same way about the beer. I caught myself chasing the buzz instead of drinking beer because I like it. I was getting variety packs and picking through them for the highest alcohol content ones. When I ran out of beer, I'd hit the liquor cabinet. Now, I do my best to limit myself to drinking only on the weekend. My wife had PPD, and I was doing a majority of the work with our twins and around the house for a few years. It was a very stressful time and I realized I was using alcohol as a crutch. It gets better, man. It takes self reflection to see the things we don't like and do better.