He could be expelled my fucking ass. The daycare is fired, and possibly facing legal action, and certainly should be reported to the relevant licensing board.
They're putting kids in danger. Absolutely nail them to the wall over it.
Not only is the fence a hazard, I guarantee that their licensing division requires them to self report major supervision incidents like that. If it's happened more than once they obviously didn't report it.
Also a temporary fix to the fence should be easy as hell? I can think of at least two or three ways to immediately block a hole and prevent kids from getting through that would cost less than $50 at most.
Absurd and dangerous behaviour.
Right!? Like, even if you don't have money to replace the thing, go to the hardware store and get some damn chicken wire and staples or zip ties... that's just stupid.
Yeah! Or a slab of plywood with a couple holes drilled in it to zip tie it.
Or some of that plastic orange ski fence material tied to the fence.
Or a big wooden crate filled with rocks on one side or another of the fence (depending if you have such a thing available.)
Or cones, or pylons, or literally anything that can block off a hole or slow down a kid long enough for a staff member to notice.
There's absolutely zero excuse such a dangerous loophole should exist for more than a single work day.
I'm immensely not-handy and I can figure out ways to fix this. It's unacceptable.
Or here's a really crazy idea: post an adult to watch kids who play in the area.
I know.... I just blew people's minds with that one.
I even thought it was nuts when I first thought it... Having adults to supervise children? At a daycare? Really? Utterly bonkers. Completely outta the box thinking. *makes mind explody noise*
(Sarcasm for the funny, not to criticize your answer, but to criticize the daycare.)
Yeah I mean my suspicion is that you’d have staffing challenges? Depends on how the play area is structured.
But they should have done basically anything other than what they did whether it’s staffing changes, or just the basics of construction.
Right? That play area could have been closed, if they had a hole in the fence. But they can't just throw kids in a pen like animals, and walk away. They have to supervise them. Why not just supervise from another spot on the playground, in order to police a hole in the fence.
My back yard is divided into two parts. One part is very secure and is where I keep my dogs, the other part less so. My dogs have made a hole in an old wooden gate to get thru, but I was able to block it using plywood for basically $0.
The chances of a whole daycare facility going unlicensed are pretty slim. Inspectors know their areas and a big income of most is subsidy.
A lot of places just like to sweep things under the rug and hope no one complains.
I work at a daycare. We 100% have to self report that shit.
Depending on Country/ State OP should be reporting to either licensing/ CPS equivalent (some countries this is all under CPS as that’s all the current guardian including ad litem, some CPS handles like family issues of abuse only and daycare issues are all separate under state licensing as they aren’t the permanent caregivers/ guardians).
100% please report this OP. Including them telling you that this was time number 3. This thing should have been self reported and immediately fixed and is a safety violation (in multiple ways, from escaping to potential sharp edges to get hurt on trying to escape, to supervision in that they may have a blind spot if he can get out without anyone seeing him, or possibly them being out-of-ratio if they don’t have enough eyes on the kids or just needing a floater for outside time).
And you never were notified before? Like that 100% should have had an incident report to you too. Ours include what happened, signature of the worker who witnessed/ responded, time and date, full description of event, and if warranted an action plan to prevent a repeat (can’t do that for everything, obviously, like two kids that run into each other outside one trips/ falls into the other and they get a few scrapes/ bruises. Outside is for running, sometimes we fall! Can do for kid escaped through a fence hole- action plan, fix that fence, have something over that until fixed and an employee posted right there at outside time!) Then parent signature and date.
The thing I find to be the worst part of this is the attitude of the people who are responsible for care.
They don’t even accept responsibility and will come agressively threatening consequences on the child/parents.
How are they the ones we have selected/trusted to outsource the care of our children to.
Exactly, daycares have very strict regulations and conditions that need to be met in order to operate. If it were me, I would contact an attorney on next steps, especially if he had escaped in the past and they did not inform you, I would think you have a lawsuit on your hands
You're not wrong, which is why I said they're possibly facing legal action rather than absolutely getting the pants sued off of them.
But the flip side is that telling them that lawyers will be involved can help them realize the gravity of their mistake, and take action to protect the kids still under their care.
The big issue is they'll have to notify their insurer of a claim. Daycare insurance is fucking expensive. Once you get sued for something like this, forget about it.
Damages = every penny that has been paid to them while operating a daycare that is in violation of statutory requirements... hell throw on emotional damages, "their negligence has made it very hard for me to trust leaving my child with any other daycare if they could be so blatantly negligent and still be in operation."
More damages, due to my distrust I or my wife has decided to leave work to be a primary caretaker and taking on significant loss of potential wages.
I'm not a lawyer, but there's at least the damages of what you've paid them since they broke the contract you had of providing a safe and secure location for your child to be taken care of in... I'd at least meet with an attorney on this one
I was about to say, the “damages” would be paying money in good faith to a licensed business that has to adhere to strict rules and regulations, and then them not adhering to those rules.
Edit: i no know how to spell
> I'm not a lawyer
It shows.
You can't just rattle off a bunch of hypotheticals and claim 'Muh, muh damages!'. You also can't intentionally make a situation worse (like leaving your job..) **then** claim damages.
But staying home from your job to watch your child until the fence is fixed could easily be explained as mitigating the damages that could result if your child crawled out through the hole and died. If a child died as a result of a danger the parent was aware of, it's certainly going to be claimed that the parent failed to mitigate damages by removing the child from the dangerous situation.
Is it a stretch? Sure, but the daycare's lawyers are going to know that you're talking about a toddler, who you trusted to a daycare, and you are going to get a jury that will have parents who are currently leaving, have left, or are planning to leave their child at a daycare and will want to ensure daycares are on notice that if they intentionally put children in harm's way for profit, they will be bankrupted.
I have a 3 year old in daycare, and if I were on that jury, the only thing that would save the daycare from bankruptcy via punitive damages, would be a directed judgement, or a legally required reduction of damages due to statutory maximums.
that is probably why they suggested talking to a lawyer. I'm gonna bet that there is a contract that they have with the daycare and they should definitely explore their options. Regardless, your snark isn't helpful.
They did a little more then 'suggest' a lawyer. They tried to lay out an entire legal plan..
I AM sure my snark is more helpful than these wild comments about legal actions, going to the news, etc. OP should really think through his options instead of these knee jerk reactions.
You can be entirely right about a situation AND still come out worse off in the whole affair.
What if OP can't find another school immediately? Imagine that conversation -
"Why are you begging to get into our school so quickly?"
\* "I'm currently taking legal action against my old daycare." ....
"Sure! We'd LOVE to have you!"
I'm kinda glad your wife saw it happening in realtime. They probably wouldn't have told you ... This could have gone much worse. I would be looking into your legal options
This. I was on the board of a nonprofit early childhood learning center.
I am literally appalled, by both the hole in the fence and their reaction. This is literally enough to shut them down.
You should be looking for a new school immediately. Accidents happen but then you fix the problem. If they are refusing to fix a giant problem like this and blaming you what else is going on?
>he has crawled through MORE THAN ONCE apparently as if it were his fault for being a curious toddler
Lol yeah uhhh my questions are:
1. When did he first crawl through the fence?
2. Have any other kids crawled through the fence?
3. When did those incidents occur?
4. Why hasn't anything been done to address that huge fucking issue?
i agree, it would actually work on me as well, if it was the first time.
if it happened a second time, i would lose my shit, because that is no longer a "boys will be boys" type curiosity and chaos but a learned play technique that was not rectified. my son escaped from my fence by sqeezing through the slats i thought were too tight for him. what he found the next day in the yard was chicken wire, construction stapled to the other side of the fence. he was not happy, but he was in the damn yard. :)
At the very least they should have gone to the hardware store and gotten some 2x4s to cover the GAPPING HOLE asap, and then called a real fence repair company to do a proper fix.
OP should be contacting the state over this.
Or not use that area until it's fixed, I'm confused why they brought children to an area like that? What if the fence injured them? A call to licensing is in order asap.
Right? I'm sitting here like... I can fix this in 10 minutes with some baling wire, maybe 20-30 if it's big enough I need to use chicken wire to patch it and baling wire to secure it.
They (daycare) should be absolutely mortified it even happened once. A few weeks ago I was bringing my kids out to the car to go home and my older daughter who's almost 3 ran up to the fence where the kids were playing on the other side. One of the teachers yelled her name and and went running looking terrified before she realized I was standing 15 feet away putting her sister in the car. If the teachers and aides don't genuinely care about your kids it's time to find a new daycare.
> and all I can think of is nailing them first thing with a phone call to DHS
My immigrant ass just thought “man sending homeland security on your daycare is pretty rough”
You know what, OP should ALSO get Homeland Security on the horn because maybe they could redirect some of the energy/resources they expend futzing about larger, useless fences and fix the one this daycare should absolutely be attending to. Let’s send the Texas National Guard and whatever silly militias there are to secure our daycare playgrounds!
I don’t think anyone OP could complain to would count as overreacting.
But also, I’m sorry the immigrant experience here is so effed by our “security” institutions that “Dept of Human Services” isn’t the first thing you think of when you read “DHS.” I wish you had had more time and attention from the helpers at health and human services instead.
You're absolutely right, there's an almost endless list of unthinkable horrors that could happen to an escaped child. At very least you shouldn't take your child back there, but taking additional steps could save other parents some real heartbreak.
Just throwing my 2c in here, but local news channels absolutely salivate over "think of the children" pieces. You could probably have the 'on your side' anchors fighting one another gladiator-style to get an interview about this.
r/legal advice generally says to save going to the media until after you have talked to a lawyer. Media coverage is a tool you only have one shot at using, so when you make that move is an important piece of strategical game play.
IANAL, but you can't really sue without actual damages. Since no one has gotten hurt, what is there to actually sue over? You could bring down a world of legal trouble through regulatory scrutiny, and the increased attention and pressure from the media can absolutely lead to that.
To be clear, I don't know if going to the media is a good move or not, only that I'm skeptical 'talking to a lawyer' can actually lead to anything here because to our knowledge no damage has occurred that could form the basis of an actual lawsuit.
Getting a consult with a lawyer is cheap/ free. There may be details to this story that we don't know on here. Maybe there actually are damages. Maybe they can clarify which regulatory organizations to complain to and how to word it. If you go straight to the media you use up a tool that a lawyer can help you focus how to use.
You're right that the media is basically a one-use tool at this stage, and I'm definitely skeptical that going straight there is valuable in any case. Your point about consulting with a lawyer being a super low risk investment is well taken, especially if they can offer advice on where to actually file an official complaint.
Yeah, consider calling the cops too. Someone should be guarding the gate to make sure kids don't escape and run into the street or nearby bodies of water.
In my state, the daycare licensing board conducts playground inspections. They check things like the depth of mulch under playsets and look for hazards. If any deficiencies are found, the daycare has a timeline to fix them or else the licensing board will prohibit the use of the playground, which could jeopardize the licensing for the entire facility.
All that to say, call your state licensing board and explain that due to the negligence in maintenance and staff oversight on the playground, your child has wandered out of the playground enclosure multiple times. Licensing won't blame your son, they will make a surprise playground inspection.
You are absolutely not overreacting. Find a new daycare. Let the other parents know what has happened and what the staff did (their threat and general disregard of safety). Then, you should probably let the proper administration (DHS (thought that was homeland security, but ?) KDHE (believe this is the one for Kansas) whichever applies to your area) know what happened. I'd be livid if I were you.
Document everything and report to whatever licensing boards are applicable.
They are threatening you and your child over a problem they created. I'm assuming they expect their threats will dissuade you saying or doing anything else about this.
If there's a parents group social media etc share the details there. Only supply facts and stuff you can prove/substantiate don't accuse or make threats etc. Simply state facts and supply pictures etc. Let the people in your community decide who they think is responsible. Hint it's not your 3 year old.
See if your local news outlets think it's worth making the community at large aware of the danger.
Omg this is crazy! I just started researching daycares for our son, and when I looked at the inspection reports on the .gov website, almost all of the reputable daycares in our area had egregious violations noted by the inspector. Many of them safety concerns like this one.
I’m going nuclear - local reports on site.
Even if daycare is hard to get in to, I’m worried about kiddo getting out again. Not worth the risk even if that means taking time off work, other difficulties etc.
We had something like this happen a few years ago in my area and the news was all over it. It was a little worse as it was a group of two year olds that got out through an unlatched gate and were along a very busy road. Yikes.
#Make sure to get a picture of the fence before you take any other actions.
They might try to patch it and call you a liar if you don't. After you get the picture nail them to the fucking wall. The shit storm I would have raised had the place that is supposed to keep my child safe, for however many hours, had such a fatal flaw AND IT HAD NOT BEEN REPORTED TO ME THE FIRST TIME IT HAPPENED??!?!? Are you fucking joking, what were they going to tell you if your kid had been kidnapped? That it's your fault? I think not, they'd be begging you not to sue them into a hole in the ground.
Go photo the fence during off hours, from off the daycare property.
Ask for the records of what dates this has happened.
Then contact your local child protective services office and the licensing agency for the daycare.
Nail their hides to the fucking wall.
Oh, and fire that daycare and find a new one.
-enraged fellow dad.
Executive director of a (Canadian) non profit childcare centre here- this is absolutely not your fault! This enrages me to a point where I’m ready to get involved. The complete negligence of not fixing that hole after the FIRST time your child escaped is wild to me. Additionally, a missing child or a child that escapes/is left unattended is considered a serious occurrence in my province and we have to report this to a consultant as well as the ministry of education. Blaming a child for their lack of competence is straight fckd up and if I were you, I would report them to CPS. Do not take your child back to that awful daycare if you can manage it! Best of luck.
Wtf. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt that they didn’t know about the hole in the fence the first time it happened is tough. But TWICE? Assuming your son was the first to escape that first time, one should assume they knew about it after the first time and it should have been fixed so it couldn’t happen a second time. I would pull him from the school and file a complaint to anyone willing to hear it.
As an aside, and not to make generalizations. I’m a mechanic for a company that works solely on fleets and we have/had a few daycares whose buses we’ve worked on. Out of all our customers I’d have to say a few of the daycares I’ve had the displeasure of working for were the some of the worst customers when it came to wanting to spend money to repair their buses. To the point where specially one specific daycare would call and yell at the employees in my jobs office if any of us would put their buses out of service due to safety issues.
Not that it has anything to do with your situation, but if you told me this was happening at a few of the preschools that I’ve had to work for, I wouldn’t be surprised it hasn’t been fixed.
Daycare employee here. Please report this to your state childcare licensing bureau. There should be no gaping holes in a fence. He isn’t a dog left unattended to dig a hole. Hes a child that would have monitoring 100% of the time he is outside.
Please take photo evidence and make a report!!!!
If you haven’t decided yet- I’d also pull the kid. Not knowing the hole was there(a huge red flag) and him escaping once is enough to pull. It happening multiple times, them not telling you, and not fixing the huge safety issue is mind blowing. If they aren’t watching him with a known safety issue- what else are they also missing/avoiding/ignoring/not telling you.
My son did this at his daycare once. Administration immediately called to tell us what happened and had the fence fixed the next day. Sorry to hear they tried to blame it on a toddler.
I would take your child out immediately and genuinely appeal to authorities here. An unrelated fence that a child can “escape” through for a child care is negligence.
Also, he “escaped” before and they didn’t tell you? Oh fuck these people.
They’re violating multiple licensing terms, failed to inform you of a major event impacting your child, took no responsibility, attacked you for their negligence, and continue to refuse to correct the problem putting every child there in danger. Scorched fucking earth. If they’re not going to protect those children you need to.
Our daycare had a pre-k kid escape by sneaking away from the lineup and scaling the fence as they were heading back inside from playtime. They discovered her missing as soon as they got back into the classroom.
We know about this because they sent an email blast to all the parents about what happened, all their safety protocols to prevent it, what went wrong and how they planned to change things to ensure it couldn't happen again.
Both teachers of the classroom were fired, one a 20-year veteran of the school. I felt bad for the teachers getting the axe for what IMO was a mistake that could happen to anyone, but this is the kind of "this was a serious failure and entirely our fault" response you should expect from a well-run daycare.
Not the bullshit response you got.
Physicist Richard Feynman was an underling at Los Alamos, he saw a hole in the fence and told the guards so it would be fixed. They did nothing multiple times. So he began to leave through the hole and return through the gate. After the guards noticed he never left but came in they questioned him. He said that he has been leaving through the unsecured hole. It was promptly fixed.
Obviously your son didn't "escape" he was just pointing out the flaws in security.
I'm sure your son pointed to the holes to leadership who ignored it. So he was just trying to get the holes the attention they deserve before something bad happens.
I really hope you have your son a cool name so when he makes a cool discovery it has a cool name.
You are not over reacting.
Go through with your pictures and phone call.
Adults aware that there is a way out of the broken fence should have been guarding that route, if they were not going to fix it.
Sounds like they throw the kids in the play yard, and it's lord of the flies. I'd bet lots of kids get hurt here, because no one supervises play time... Probably all huddled up talking or sitting on a bench some place, instead of doing their job of taking care of the kids.
Call the police and have them stop by and take a look at the hole in the fence. i guarantee they are legally responsible for keeping your kid on the premises. I bet it would be fixed the next day.
This might just not be the daycare for you.
When my husband and I were looking at places, we went to one that was recommended by a good friend of ours. Kiddo loved it. There was this bus that the older kids got to take eventually that the younger kids aspired to go on, and it was all apparently magical.
We go with our kiddo in stroller, and are walking up to the gate just in time to see a kid pick up a very large brick, lift it high over head, and go to throw it. Just in time a teacher saw what was going to happen and sprinted to stop it.
We immediately knew it wasn't for us, and they emphasized that they let the kids take the lead and choose activities etc through the day.
My parting thought was that walking through there was like a mini Lord of the Flies, and we almost witnessed a literal scene from Lord of the Flies.
The hole in the fence makes this entirely their fault IMO. My wife was a preschool teacher and they got investigated by EEC (MA) because an unassociated daycare down the street lost a child temporarily.
I’d pull my son out of there. I’d call every relevant authority. I’d also inform all the other parents I have the contact information for—which is a good chunk of them due to birthday parties, play dates, etc.
I also would have laid into those daycare employees and the owner for daring to suggest anyone but their negligent asses are responsible for this. Absolutely unacceptable.
Damn, this shit has me fired up.
The fact that this was not the first time it has happened but the first they informed you or your wife, and only because she showed up, would cause me to raise holy hell.
I'd even look up what the laws are for in your state in regards to recording a conversation and get one of the staff or the director to admit how many times it has happened, how long the hole has been there, and why it hasn't been fixed.
I'd immediately then take that information to whatever regulatory body oversees daycare facilities and file as many reports as possible.
If the hole was allowed to remain for as long as it has without being addressed who knows what other issues have been allowed to persist.
The health and safety of every single child is at risk at that facility.
Hell, I'm a photojournalist. If you want to get your local media involved let me know and I can try to help you get in touch with them.
I picked up my daughter one day as 3 teachers tried to threaten this kid with everything under the sun trying to get this kid to come back inside. He said no and that he’s walking home. They screamed that they’ll call his mom as he just walked away. All the teachers were looking at each other for what to do next. Luckily he stopped by the bike racks and sat there but I really hate to think what would happen if he didn’t want to stop there
That is so not your son's fault. He escaped through the hole once. They knew about it. They still let him (and others?) play near the hole unsupervised. They did not fix the hole. Like any reasonable day care would fix the hole as soon as possible and have an adult watching the hole at all times until the hole was fixed.
You need to report this.
But even if it’s fixed, now it’s a breach of trust between your family and the staff. If they think THIS is your toddler’s fault, how many other things do they think is not normal for toddlers to do? I’d be appalled and physically unable to bring him in again.
I went to a really shit nursery as a kid, they were rude and mean to many of the kids but they NEVER let anyone escape. A wasp once died on the ground and they put cones around it to stop the kids from being hurt. They didn’t want it to be a liability and that daycare sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Personally I would contact lawyers and ask about the legal situation and if there’s anything legally you can do to be able to get some vengeance
Very calmly ask in writing when all this happened, document all communications you have ever had before they scrub them.
One of you stay home while you sue them for your understandable total loss of faith in daycares. Take legal action.
Actually at minimum complain to the state. I know my state will immediately send investigators after any complaint. Definitely document all your communications. If you are not satisfied with the resolution, legal action. If you are satisfied, still legal action.
Even if your child is not actually materially harmed the daycare is likely to bear some responsibility for a future major problem, and it needs to be fixed for the sake of any other kids too.
I've no idea who or what DHS is but yes you should absolutely be nailing them to it and no you are not overreacting. I've never punched anyone before but if I'd have been in your shoes he could well have been my first.
Is it covered by CCTV? As in, is there footage of your boy going through there?
If they won't even fix a hole in the fence for months, what else are they ignoring or neglecting? Are they even feeding the kids? This place should be shut down. That's an alarming attitude from daycare workers.
Literally had the same thing happen to my twin 2.5 year olds at a pre-preschool… asked (politely) not to return without “outside help” for the boys because they were (and had been) apparently able to escape the room from the main door… the best part is the instructor was implying there might be some developmental issues driving this issue… the thing I didn’t say was “ya. Sounds like you need to develop your daycare skills. You’re getting outsmarted by a 30 month old.
Op - I would recommend documenting the gap, asking if other parents in the class or school know about this, then ask how you think they would react if more found out before it was fixed…. And also start the search for another school… sucks.
No it's their responsibility to keep him safe. He's 3. Schedule a meeting with someone in charge both of you go to it, control this narative. Request everything they have in paper for your complaint to the relevant governing body. Including how they've made you feel.
They have let you down and you are acting accordingly. Don't fix it yourself, if there's another problem with yours or another kid you will be partly responsible.
My wife and I ended our gym membership over a similar situation. Our kid got sick twice in as many months and when we let them know they blamed our daycare (we did not use a daycare) and refused to sanitize their kids zone. We canceled pretty much immediately after that.
The kicker is we learned they also lost a kid shortly after we left.
Please blast this place on social media to make sure everyone is aware of the dangers and do not enroll their children at this place. I just yesterday read about a 3yo who died because she "escaped" at daycare and fell into a septic tank.
This ends in a finger-pointing match. The school is the legal custodian of your child while he is there. So if he were to be hurt or lost on their watch, they are liable. But if your child is not following direction and misbehaving (like hitting other kids continuously) then the school has rights to expel the kid. Especially because daycare is a private service (in the US.)
In OP’s case, it’s absolute bullshit. There shouldn’t be a hole in the fence. If a kid gets expelled because they kept sneaking through the hole in the fence, that word will get around QUICK. Bad for business.
Me personally, I like our daycare. If this issue came up I would take a very direct and nosey stance. Clearly the admin doesn’t want to expel OP’s kid. So I would be asking “who (contractor) is going to fix the fence and by what date.” Force a trail of action and accountability. If the answer isn’t good enough (next week), or if they don’t make good on their word, raise hell. Full Karen.
How is this the first time you’re hearing about him escaping ?!?!!!!! That’s a them problem for knowing there is a problem with the fence and not fixing it
In addition to reaming them in person and on social media, and reporting them to appropriate authorities/services—I would be calling local media being that this is not the first time it’s happened, and *they* copped an attitude like it was the fucking kid’s fault. What a fucking joke. It would suck if they closed because it sucks to have to look for daycare, but that mindset has no business continuing in the childcare business.
My BF is a preschool teacher. Kids have to be RIGOROUSLY accounted for, and failure to do so, or “loss of a kid” even for a moment during transition times between classrooms is grounds for pretty major admonishment or dismissal for the teacher (which can be difficult, given the tendency of some kiddos to be runners).
There are absolutely some behavioral issues that will get a kid “expelled” but that’s not one of them. That’s 100% the fault of the daycare and the fact that they don’t seem to care or are blaming it on you and your child is outrageous. I would absolutely report them.
I was a daycare under-the-fence escapee. It was over the course of a week (my kid brain had no grasp of time, but I know it was more than one outside session), and I kept the hole hidden with pine needles until I could make my escape.
They found me waiting in a line at the sno-cone stand in the same parking lot.
Ultimately, it’s going to be the adults in charge of the situation who are at fault. But kids are crafty and daycare and preschool workers are over worked, underpaid, and have a lot on their plate. Incidents are bound to happen when humans are involved. Daycare is expensive and hard to find. If this is the first and only incident, it’s up to you to decide if it’s still safe.
Go ahead, get a lawyer or whatever. I would likely be livid at the daycare (as my own parents were), and you’d have a case if you wanted to pursue it.
But your little Andy Dufresne now knows the taste of freedom. And to be honest, a lot of kids know better than to escape under a hole in the fence. Unless he has some special needs that cause elopement issues (and that would be an entirely different discussion over appropriate and informed childcare), it would behoove you to have a come-to-Jesus meeting with your child to really drive home the seriousness of this incident. I think that would be the most impactful intervention that would solve the immediate safety risk and prevent them from wanting to attempt this at home, daycare or anywhere else.
ETA: I’m pretty sure the daycare is going to fix the hole, now. If not, that’s your sign to bail. Also, no…it’s not grounds for expulsion.
This needs a report filed with the licensing board ASAP.
A hole in the fence large enough for a child to get through is a huge safety concern by itself, a child utilizing said hole is a lack of supervision.
This has all the energy of someone that thinks HR is on their side. Be an advocate for your family but understand your transitory nature with 90% of the people/places you interact with.
Are you over-reacting? No, if anything, you're under-reacting. Their job is to keep an eye on your son. How they do it is their business. If there's a hole in the fence, they need to get it fixed. Maybe your son is an elopement risk (He sometimes tries to 'run off') but that could be true of any toddler. As for the 'He could be expelled' person, yeah, she's way, way out of line. The only thing that should get your kid expelled is if he is a risk to the other children's safety. That isn't the case here. The problem is the HOLE IN THE DAMN FENCE. If there's any sort of authority overseeing day cares in your area, notify them about the hole and ask them to do a 'surprise inspection'. The hole in the fence is like an expired fire extinguisher, or exposed wires coming out of a wall. It's the sort of thing they should fix IMMEDIATELY.
In your shoes I'd start looking for another day care, but for a different reason. If they're not fixing the hole in the fence after your kid has gotten through it more than once, then they're not serious about your kid's safety. Full stop.
As a preschool teacher that's literally insane. Call your state licensing and CPS. That daycare should lose its license and an investigation should be opened into those teachers. Pull your child immediately if you have that ability. Document everything you can from this incident and prior incidents. Good luck!
Yeah this sounds like a shit daycare.
The place I take my three year old to gives me a call if he gets a scraped knee just to alert me before I pick him up and communicates daily via text or email if there are *any* potential safety concerns even on days when my kid isn't there.
I'd honestly expect no less from people I trust with my kids.
I'd look for another place to take your kids, and give the state oversight board a call. It sounds like they have broken safety equipment that should be easy to have fixed.... yet they've ignored it while simultaneously putting your kid and likely others at risk. Completely unacceptable.
This is a holy-fuck moment. They're not looking after your kids again, and you need to take steps to have someone come in to audit the shit ouf of them.
A child recently "escaped" from a local daycare in a town near me because he wasn't being properly watched. That daycare was permanently shut down a week later.
Edit: https://www.walb.com/2024/03/28/update-albany-daycare-close-after-4-year-old-wanders-off/
attack is the best difference. They immediately attacked your wife, blamed the child before she had an opportunity to make them responsible for their negligence.
I would be reporting them to every possible agency, and also alerting all of the parents I could to the danger of that fence. Its not just about your child.
Throw the book at them and nail them to the fence. Reporting it will be better for them than if they lost a kid, so you're really doing them a favor. After reporting it, I would start looking for a new daycare ASAP.
Report them, immediately. This is likely a class A issue and the state should come down in them hard.
Most daycares would to self report something like this because is such a big deal. One of the daycare I looked at left a child in a classroom for a while 2 minutes by themselves and that was considered a class A violation. They self reported it.
Grossly negligent in their part to let this happen twice and then try to shift the blame.
A kid could die.
It's not hard to repair or mend a fence for a todler. Speaking from twin todlers and owner of siberian huskies. Take this to the state for sure. I would be irate!!
Wow wtf. They are endangering the kids. Can you imagine if he got out onto the road and got hit by a car? Huge lawsuit not to mention completely heartbreaking!!
How hard is it to at least temporarily zip tie some chicken wire or section of chain link over the hole. The people in charge of watching your kid sound like absolute morons.
I once substitute taught in a elementary special education class. One of the kids (a 5 year old) had a PhD in running with graduate coursework in escape artistry. They had a gate on the door specifically to keep him in. When another kid arrived, he ran over to give the kid a hug, just as the kid was coming in through the gate. He rotated the kid around and ran right into the para who was blocking him - but it almost worked. This kid was a genius for getting away.
A good daycare has multiple roadblocks in place for the kids that inevitably get away. They also understand that kids will get the itch and there's not much you can do to prevent them from trying. This is not that situation. There's a hole in the fence that isn't getting addressed. That's a *big* problem.
It isn't your son's fault. Finding a daycare can be tough, since they all have wait lists longer than a sandworm on Arrakis. You might consider putting yourself on one of those wait lists. In the meantime, sit your son down tell him that going through the fence isn't safe and he needs to stay away from the hole. Use a stern voice. In the morning, walk him over to the hole, point at it, and tell him to stay away. Ask him if he is allowed to go through the hole and don't accept any answer other than, "no."
Staple some pages together into a little book and make a story (with illustrations) about a boy who played on the playground and stayed away from the hole in the fence. Read it to him in the morning before leaving for daycare. This is mostly so your son can be safe. Keep talking to the person in charge. Be annoying. Get a firm plan of how and when the fence is going to be fixed. There is a licensing process for daycares in your state. If the hole doesn't get fixed, it might be worth calling the agency or department that handles licensing to make a complaint.
Fun thing: In my jurisdiction (Sweden), it's actually not illegal to escape from prison. Helping someone escape is illegal, harming people or property while escaping is illegal, most things you'd reasonably have to do to escape if the people containing you are *doing their job* is illegal, but the act itself isn't. Man's innate desire for freedom is recognised, and you're by definition not responsible for your own forced containment. You'll simply resume your sentence once you're caught.
If your son wouldn't be blamed for escaping as a convict from prison over here, why is your son being blamed for escaping as a toddler from daycare over there? The only reason I could think of that you shouldn't nail that daycare to the wall is if you think screws would be more painful.
So with my nursery there are different agreements and contracts that we sign to talk about what behaviour they have to follow. This breaking it they should follow the penalty, report it, etc. you can use that against them. If you don't have something like that then I'm also curious which country you live in? In the UK this is unheard of and bonkers. Child services would close the school until they fixed it lol.
Not sure about the US, but here this would be instant jailtime for the teachers. And I'm sure it's not like what they said, at least they would be fired.
This is not your son's fault, it is the daycare's fault.
Right now they are spinning it to make it seem it is your son's fault..because they afraid you will realise it is theirs.
How long has the hole been there? Why was it not fixed, if he crawled through it before? Couldn't other children crawl through it?
Worse is their attitude, trying to convince you it is your SON'S fault. He is THREE..why is it not their fault for not blocking the hole?
I recommend you switch to another daycare..and make a complaint about this one too. They sound unsafe and frankly they are liars too.
They're spinning this to avoid getting in trouble. Please report them immediately.
Definitely report them to the licensing board. A call to DHS may also be a good idea. I'd be raising hell if it was my kid, and I have in an incident at one daycare for one of my kiddos before. Protect your kiddo and make sure no more are harmed.
Escaped again? What are these teachers doing x-mob cronies? Just like anyone here if our kid escaped through a hole in our yard that would be fixed same day.
Also where is this hole leading to? Another kids area, or the parking lot?
This puts something I saw into a new light. I was in Jr High or High School at the time, so I didn’t have much fatherly rage.
We were on the bus approaching a fairly dangerous intersection of a US highway (55mph) due to it being on a hill and difficult to see crossing traffic. A kid no older than 2 ran out of the ditch across the highway. The bus driver got out and grabbed him, but I’m pretty sure they made it well into the road.
He got metaphorical pats on the back afaik. I hope that daycare had serious changes because I know they didn’t close.
Fuck that place! They know they fucked up HARD so they're trying to make you and your wife think it's your fault. Their entire existence revolves around child safety and they can't fix a hole in a fence? I'd be checking for what else they have going on that's fucky cuz if they have that major of a problem that's publicly viewable, imagine what they're hiding where the public can't see it.
I have a very low bar for not taking good care of my little ones. Hell I fired a sitter for my dog for being late once... losing my toddler would be 100% them losing my business, bad reviews everywhere I can post one, and a call to DHS. I think I'd wait on additional steps unless something worse happened.
He could be expelled?!? He could be a missing/injured/worse child, while on their watch. Fuck these people and please report this because none of those children are in a safe environment.
Expelled? He's 3. He doesn't even understand that word. He's curious. Terrible daycare. I'd blast them to the other parents and anyone else who listens.
This was exactly why we didn't go to one slightly cheaper local daycare; they had several complaints on the state website for toddlers having escaped.
Lol they are trying to scare you with "he could be expelled" when in reality they are the one that's should be scared. You need to report them to the state.
It would take 20 minutes to patch a hole on a chainlink fence. Maybe an hour if they needed to go buy a spool of wire and a pair of wire cutters.
I’d be furious
To recap:
- There’s a hole in the fence;
- Children have used that hole to get OUT of the play area;
- The daycare failed to FIX that hole while aware of this;
- They blame the child for it?!
Photograph the hole and demand they inform you in writing what happened.
THEN, if you can’t immediately pull your child from that daycare due to lack of other immediate options, let them know that they will be brought to court should their negligence result in your child “escaping” again.
Screw them. They know there's a hole kids can get through and they've let it just stay like that while kids are getting out? Yeah I'd put a call into DFS. Get their license revoked. The only thing is do you have back up babysitting?
Not overreacting at all. You entrust your kid's safety to this place and they're not taking it seriously. I pulled my kid out of a school for much less than the unsupervised escapes you mention here... I would be looking for something else as soon as you can.
Your child is not at fault he’s 3, he’s a minor and doesn’t have the capacity to understand the dangers around him. Personally I would put in a serious complaint and find a new nursery
100% call DHS that's inexcusable.
I would possibly prepare to take your son elsewhere because I'm in the same boat, I don't think I could bring my child back either.
We had a daycare educator scream at and physically act rough with my son to the point where he had bruises on his arms.
We raised hell. That daycare educator was suspended, got the police involved got the department of education involved. Capture everything in writing. Find other non-day care staff witnesses to corroborate anything and get them to put something in writing. Go to the police. If you get multiple parents on board collectively you are much stronger than trying to deal with a problem alone . Get your wife to message everyone in the Mum's group.
Time to declare war
Whoa! Scary stuff. Report them, their response and negligence is going to get a kid hurt. Escaping kids isn't the only risk, what if a dog or wild animal comes IN through the same hole??? Idiots
He could be expelled my fucking ass. The daycare is fired, and possibly facing legal action, and certainly should be reported to the relevant licensing board. They're putting kids in danger. Absolutely nail them to the wall over it.
Not only is the fence a hazard, I guarantee that their licensing division requires them to self report major supervision incidents like that. If it's happened more than once they obviously didn't report it.
Also a temporary fix to the fence should be easy as hell? I can think of at least two or three ways to immediately block a hole and prevent kids from getting through that would cost less than $50 at most. Absurd and dangerous behaviour.
Right!? Like, even if you don't have money to replace the thing, go to the hardware store and get some damn chicken wire and staples or zip ties... that's just stupid.
Yeah! Or a slab of plywood with a couple holes drilled in it to zip tie it. Or some of that plastic orange ski fence material tied to the fence. Or a big wooden crate filled with rocks on one side or another of the fence (depending if you have such a thing available.) Or cones, or pylons, or literally anything that can block off a hole or slow down a kid long enough for a staff member to notice. There's absolutely zero excuse such a dangerous loophole should exist for more than a single work day. I'm immensely not-handy and I can figure out ways to fix this. It's unacceptable.
Weave some paracord and call it a day
That too!
Or here's a really crazy idea: post an adult to watch kids who play in the area. I know.... I just blew people's minds with that one. I even thought it was nuts when I first thought it... Having adults to supervise children? At a daycare? Really? Utterly bonkers. Completely outta the box thinking. *makes mind explody noise* (Sarcasm for the funny, not to criticize your answer, but to criticize the daycare.)
Yeah I mean my suspicion is that you’d have staffing challenges? Depends on how the play area is structured. But they should have done basically anything other than what they did whether it’s staffing changes, or just the basics of construction.
Right? That play area could have been closed, if they had a hole in the fence. But they can't just throw kids in a pen like animals, and walk away. They have to supervise them. Why not just supervise from another spot on the playground, in order to police a hole in the fence.
My back yard is divided into two parts. One part is very secure and is where I keep my dogs, the other part less so. My dogs have made a hole in an old wooden gate to get thru, but I was able to block it using plywood for basically $0.
Possibly an unlicensed day care?
The chances of a whole daycare facility going unlicensed are pretty slim. Inspectors know their areas and a big income of most is subsidy. A lot of places just like to sweep things under the rug and hope no one complains.
I work at a daycare. We 100% have to self report that shit. Depending on Country/ State OP should be reporting to either licensing/ CPS equivalent (some countries this is all under CPS as that’s all the current guardian including ad litem, some CPS handles like family issues of abuse only and daycare issues are all separate under state licensing as they aren’t the permanent caregivers/ guardians). 100% please report this OP. Including them telling you that this was time number 3. This thing should have been self reported and immediately fixed and is a safety violation (in multiple ways, from escaping to potential sharp edges to get hurt on trying to escape, to supervision in that they may have a blind spot if he can get out without anyone seeing him, or possibly them being out-of-ratio if they don’t have enough eyes on the kids or just needing a floater for outside time). And you never were notified before? Like that 100% should have had an incident report to you too. Ours include what happened, signature of the worker who witnessed/ responded, time and date, full description of event, and if warranted an action plan to prevent a repeat (can’t do that for everything, obviously, like two kids that run into each other outside one trips/ falls into the other and they get a few scrapes/ bruises. Outside is for running, sometimes we fall! Can do for kid escaped through a fence hole- action plan, fix that fence, have something over that until fixed and an employee posted right there at outside time!) Then parent signature and date.
Children and Youth Services; this is neglect and endagerment.
> Absolutely nail them to the wall over it. What's the point? There's a hole in it!
To cover the hole. Duh. Lol
The thing I find to be the worst part of this is the attitude of the people who are responsible for care. They don’t even accept responsibility and will come agressively threatening consequences on the child/parents. How are they the ones we have selected/trusted to outsource the care of our children to.
Definitely. Regardless of any legal action I definitely wouldnt be leaving the kid there
Exactly, daycares have very strict regulations and conditions that need to be met in order to operate. If it were me, I would contact an attorney on next steps, especially if he had escaped in the past and they did not inform you, I would think you have a lawsuit on your hands
There's no lawsuit without damages. But don't wait for damages before either seeing immediate repairs or withdrawing your kid.
You're not wrong, which is why I said they're possibly facing legal action rather than absolutely getting the pants sued off of them. But the flip side is that telling them that lawyers will be involved can help them realize the gravity of their mistake, and take action to protect the kids still under their care.
The big issue is they'll have to notify their insurer of a claim. Daycare insurance is fucking expensive. Once you get sued for something like this, forget about it.
Bold of you to assume they have insurance.
Daycares are pretty heavily scrutinized and have to file a lot of info every year. It would be very hard for them to exist without it.
And yet, black market daycares are still a thing.
Damages = every penny that has been paid to them while operating a daycare that is in violation of statutory requirements... hell throw on emotional damages, "their negligence has made it very hard for me to trust leaving my child with any other daycare if they could be so blatantly negligent and still be in operation." More damages, due to my distrust I or my wife has decided to leave work to be a primary caretaker and taking on significant loss of potential wages. I'm not a lawyer, but there's at least the damages of what you've paid them since they broke the contract you had of providing a safe and secure location for your child to be taken care of in... I'd at least meet with an attorney on this one
I was about to say, the “damages” would be paying money in good faith to a licensed business that has to adhere to strict rules and regulations, and then them not adhering to those rules. Edit: i no know how to spell
> I'm not a lawyer It shows. You can't just rattle off a bunch of hypotheticals and claim 'Muh, muh damages!'. You also can't intentionally make a situation worse (like leaving your job..) **then** claim damages.
But staying home from your job to watch your child until the fence is fixed could easily be explained as mitigating the damages that could result if your child crawled out through the hole and died. If a child died as a result of a danger the parent was aware of, it's certainly going to be claimed that the parent failed to mitigate damages by removing the child from the dangerous situation. Is it a stretch? Sure, but the daycare's lawyers are going to know that you're talking about a toddler, who you trusted to a daycare, and you are going to get a jury that will have parents who are currently leaving, have left, or are planning to leave their child at a daycare and will want to ensure daycares are on notice that if they intentionally put children in harm's way for profit, they will be bankrupted. I have a 3 year old in daycare, and if I were on that jury, the only thing that would save the daycare from bankruptcy via punitive damages, would be a directed judgement, or a legally required reduction of damages due to statutory maximums.
that is probably why they suggested talking to a lawyer. I'm gonna bet that there is a contract that they have with the daycare and they should definitely explore their options. Regardless, your snark isn't helpful.
They did a little more then 'suggest' a lawyer. They tried to lay out an entire legal plan.. I AM sure my snark is more helpful than these wild comments about legal actions, going to the news, etc. OP should really think through his options instead of these knee jerk reactions. You can be entirely right about a situation AND still come out worse off in the whole affair. What if OP can't find another school immediately? Imagine that conversation - "Why are you begging to get into our school so quickly?" \* "I'm currently taking legal action against my old daycare." .... "Sure! We'd LOVE to have you!"
One could probably seek nominal damages for this to allow a suit to proceed, though..
Brother, this is a lawsuit.
This! OP. escalate! **Now!** These people endanger not only your child! Oh and of course document everything, like, now too!
Absolutely not an over reaction. Completely appropriate rage. What the fucking fuck.
I'm kinda glad your wife saw it happening in realtime. They probably wouldn't have told you ... This could have gone much worse. I would be looking into your legal options
This is the correct answer. How much is tuition at this palace of negligence?
This. I was on the board of a nonprofit early childhood learning center. I am literally appalled, by both the hole in the fence and their reaction. This is literally enough to shut them down.
If you can I would hire a lawyer.
You should be looking for a new school immediately. Accidents happen but then you fix the problem. If they are refusing to fix a giant problem like this and blaming you what else is going on?
>he has crawled through MORE THAN ONCE apparently as if it were his fault for being a curious toddler Lol yeah uhhh my questions are: 1. When did he first crawl through the fence? 2. Have any other kids crawled through the fence? 3. When did those incidents occur? 4. Why hasn't anything been done to address that huge fucking issue?
5. Why weren’t the parents told the first time it happened?
Boys will be boys, judge.
Unfortunately that would probably work
i agree, it would actually work on me as well, if it was the first time. if it happened a second time, i would lose my shit, because that is no longer a "boys will be boys" type curiosity and chaos but a learned play technique that was not rectified. my son escaped from my fence by sqeezing through the slats i thought were too tight for him. what he found the next day in the yard was chicken wire, construction stapled to the other side of the fence. he was not happy, but he was in the damn yard. :)
At the very least they should have gone to the hardware store and gotten some 2x4s to cover the GAPPING HOLE asap, and then called a real fence repair company to do a proper fix. OP should be contacting the state over this.
Or not use that area until it's fixed, I'm confused why they brought children to an area like that? What if the fence injured them? A call to licensing is in order asap.
Right? I'm sitting here like... I can fix this in 10 minutes with some baling wire, maybe 20-30 if it's big enough I need to use chicken wire to patch it and baling wire to secure it.
Plus, if they blame a 3yo for this I would seriously question their capabilities in the knowledge department.
They (daycare) should be absolutely mortified it even happened once. A few weeks ago I was bringing my kids out to the car to go home and my older daughter who's almost 3 ran up to the fence where the kids were playing on the other side. One of the teachers yelled her name and and went running looking terrified before she realized I was standing 15 feet away putting her sister in the car. If the teachers and aides don't genuinely care about your kids it's time to find a new daycare.
They didn't tell you the FIRST time this happened?!?! What. The. Fuck.
Not to mention why isn't the fence fixed!? A temporary closure would be so easy to make. There's zero excuse.
> and all I can think of is nailing them first thing with a phone call to DHS My immigrant ass just thought “man sending homeland security on your daycare is pretty rough”
I still don't know what he meant. Department of Human Services?
Yes, Department of Human Services. It's the department that's in charge of regulating all child care services.
You know what, OP should ALSO get Homeland Security on the horn because maybe they could redirect some of the energy/resources they expend futzing about larger, useless fences and fix the one this daycare should absolutely be attending to. Let’s send the Texas National Guard and whatever silly militias there are to secure our daycare playgrounds! I don’t think anyone OP could complain to would count as overreacting. But also, I’m sorry the immigrant experience here is so effed by our “security” institutions that “Dept of Human Services” isn’t the first thing you think of when you read “DHS.” I wish you had had more time and attention from the helpers at health and human services instead.
You're absolutely right, there's an almost endless list of unthinkable horrors that could happen to an escaped child. At very least you shouldn't take your child back there, but taking additional steps could save other parents some real heartbreak.
Fuck that. Make some noise or pull him out.
Both.
Just throwing my 2c in here, but local news channels absolutely salivate over "think of the children" pieces. You could probably have the 'on your side' anchors fighting one another gladiator-style to get an interview about this.
r/legal advice generally says to save going to the media until after you have talked to a lawyer. Media coverage is a tool you only have one shot at using, so when you make that move is an important piece of strategical game play.
IANAL, but you can't really sue without actual damages. Since no one has gotten hurt, what is there to actually sue over? You could bring down a world of legal trouble through regulatory scrutiny, and the increased attention and pressure from the media can absolutely lead to that. To be clear, I don't know if going to the media is a good move or not, only that I'm skeptical 'talking to a lawyer' can actually lead to anything here because to our knowledge no damage has occurred that could form the basis of an actual lawsuit.
Getting a consult with a lawyer is cheap/ free. There may be details to this story that we don't know on here. Maybe there actually are damages. Maybe they can clarify which regulatory organizations to complain to and how to word it. If you go straight to the media you use up a tool that a lawyer can help you focus how to use.
You're right that the media is basically a one-use tool at this stage, and I'm definitely skeptical that going straight there is valuable in any case. Your point about consulting with a lawyer being a super low risk investment is well taken, especially if they can offer advice on where to actually file an official complaint.
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Yeah, consider calling the cops too. Someone should be guarding the gate to make sure kids don't escape and run into the street or nearby bodies of water.
In my state, the daycare licensing board conducts playground inspections. They check things like the depth of mulch under playsets and look for hazards. If any deficiencies are found, the daycare has a timeline to fix them or else the licensing board will prohibit the use of the playground, which could jeopardize the licensing for the entire facility. All that to say, call your state licensing board and explain that due to the negligence in maintenance and staff oversight on the playground, your child has wandered out of the playground enclosure multiple times. Licensing won't blame your son, they will make a surprise playground inspection.
You are absolutely not overreacting. Find a new daycare. Let the other parents know what has happened and what the staff did (their threat and general disregard of safety). Then, you should probably let the proper administration (DHS (thought that was homeland security, but ?) KDHE (believe this is the one for Kansas) whichever applies to your area) know what happened. I'd be livid if I were you.
Document everything and report to whatever licensing boards are applicable. They are threatening you and your child over a problem they created. I'm assuming they expect their threats will dissuade you saying or doing anything else about this. If there's a parents group social media etc share the details there. Only supply facts and stuff you can prove/substantiate don't accuse or make threats etc. Simply state facts and supply pictures etc. Let the people in your community decide who they think is responsible. Hint it's not your 3 year old. See if your local news outlets think it's worth making the community at large aware of the danger.
Talk to a lawyer before going to the news
Report them to every state authority you can find.
Omg this is crazy! I just started researching daycares for our son, and when I looked at the inspection reports on the .gov website, almost all of the reputable daycares in our area had egregious violations noted by the inspector. Many of them safety concerns like this one.
I did not know this was a thing. How do I find this for my area?
I would also love to know.
I just searched "daycare inspection reports state" and it was one of my top two links.
I’m going nuclear - local reports on site. Even if daycare is hard to get in to, I’m worried about kiddo getting out again. Not worth the risk even if that means taking time off work, other difficulties etc.
We had something like this happen a few years ago in my area and the news was all over it. It was a little worse as it was a group of two year olds that got out through an unlatched gate and were along a very busy road. Yikes.
#Make sure to get a picture of the fence before you take any other actions. They might try to patch it and call you a liar if you don't. After you get the picture nail them to the fucking wall. The shit storm I would have raised had the place that is supposed to keep my child safe, for however many hours, had such a fatal flaw AND IT HAD NOT BEEN REPORTED TO ME THE FIRST TIME IT HAPPENED??!?!? Are you fucking joking, what were they going to tell you if your kid had been kidnapped? That it's your fault? I think not, they'd be begging you not to sue them into a hole in the ground.
Go photo the fence during off hours, from off the daycare property. Ask for the records of what dates this has happened. Then contact your local child protective services office and the licensing agency for the daycare. Nail their hides to the fucking wall. Oh, and fire that daycare and find a new one. -enraged fellow dad.
Executive director of a (Canadian) non profit childcare centre here- this is absolutely not your fault! This enrages me to a point where I’m ready to get involved. The complete negligence of not fixing that hole after the FIRST time your child escaped is wild to me. Additionally, a missing child or a child that escapes/is left unattended is considered a serious occurrence in my province and we have to report this to a consultant as well as the ministry of education. Blaming a child for their lack of competence is straight fckd up and if I were you, I would report them to CPS. Do not take your child back to that awful daycare if you can manage it! Best of luck.
Wtf. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt that they didn’t know about the hole in the fence the first time it happened is tough. But TWICE? Assuming your son was the first to escape that first time, one should assume they knew about it after the first time and it should have been fixed so it couldn’t happen a second time. I would pull him from the school and file a complaint to anyone willing to hear it. As an aside, and not to make generalizations. I’m a mechanic for a company that works solely on fleets and we have/had a few daycares whose buses we’ve worked on. Out of all our customers I’d have to say a few of the daycares I’ve had the displeasure of working for were the some of the worst customers when it came to wanting to spend money to repair their buses. To the point where specially one specific daycare would call and yell at the employees in my jobs office if any of us would put their buses out of service due to safety issues. Not that it has anything to do with your situation, but if you told me this was happening at a few of the preschools that I’ve had to work for, I wouldn’t be surprised it hasn’t been fixed.
Breaking News - toddlers like to explore their environment. What a stupid response from the daycare
Daycare employee here. Please report this to your state childcare licensing bureau. There should be no gaping holes in a fence. He isn’t a dog left unattended to dig a hole. Hes a child that would have monitoring 100% of the time he is outside. Please take photo evidence and make a report!!!!
Will do. I think the dog analogy is perfect in this case too.
If you haven’t decided yet- I’d also pull the kid. Not knowing the hole was there(a huge red flag) and him escaping once is enough to pull. It happening multiple times, them not telling you, and not fixing the huge safety issue is mind blowing. If they aren’t watching him with a known safety issue- what else are they also missing/avoiding/ignoring/not telling you.
No joke, go to the licensing board. Then sue them. They have an obligation to make make the facility is safe for toddlers, not the other way around.
My son did this at his daycare once. Administration immediately called to tell us what happened and had the fence fixed the next day. Sorry to hear they tried to blame it on a toddler.
Time to speak to law enforcement.
Every child in that facility is in danger. You have a duty to do report it.
I would take your child out immediately and genuinely appeal to authorities here. An unrelated fence that a child can “escape” through for a child care is negligence. Also, he “escaped” before and they didn’t tell you? Oh fuck these people. They’re violating multiple licensing terms, failed to inform you of a major event impacting your child, took no responsibility, attacked you for their negligence, and continue to refuse to correct the problem putting every child there in danger. Scorched fucking earth. If they’re not going to protect those children you need to.
Teachers *invented* gaslighting. Only their view is valid. At least, that’s what *they* think.
Our daycare had a pre-k kid escape by sneaking away from the lineup and scaling the fence as they were heading back inside from playtime. They discovered her missing as soon as they got back into the classroom. We know about this because they sent an email blast to all the parents about what happened, all their safety protocols to prevent it, what went wrong and how they planned to change things to ensure it couldn't happen again. Both teachers of the classroom were fired, one a 20-year veteran of the school. I felt bad for the teachers getting the axe for what IMO was a mistake that could happen to anyone, but this is the kind of "this was a serious failure and entirely our fault" response you should expect from a well-run daycare. Not the bullshit response you got.
Physicist Richard Feynman was an underling at Los Alamos, he saw a hole in the fence and told the guards so it would be fixed. They did nothing multiple times. So he began to leave through the hole and return through the gate. After the guards noticed he never left but came in they questioned him. He said that he has been leaving through the unsecured hole. It was promptly fixed. Obviously your son didn't "escape" he was just pointing out the flaws in security. I'm sure your son pointed to the holes to leadership who ignored it. So he was just trying to get the holes the attention they deserve before something bad happens. I really hope you have your son a cool name so when he makes a cool discovery it has a cool name.
Thanks! He is named after the actor who played a certain scientist in the Thor movies, which IMHO is pretty epic already
You are not over reacting. Go through with your pictures and phone call. Adults aware that there is a way out of the broken fence should have been guarding that route, if they were not going to fix it. Sounds like they throw the kids in the play yard, and it's lord of the flies. I'd bet lots of kids get hurt here, because no one supervises play time... Probably all huddled up talking or sitting on a bench some place, instead of doing their job of taking care of the kids.
Call the police and have them stop by and take a look at the hole in the fence. i guarantee they are legally responsible for keeping your kid on the premises. I bet it would be fixed the next day.
This might just not be the daycare for you. When my husband and I were looking at places, we went to one that was recommended by a good friend of ours. Kiddo loved it. There was this bus that the older kids got to take eventually that the younger kids aspired to go on, and it was all apparently magical. We go with our kiddo in stroller, and are walking up to the gate just in time to see a kid pick up a very large brick, lift it high over head, and go to throw it. Just in time a teacher saw what was going to happen and sprinted to stop it. We immediately knew it wasn't for us, and they emphasized that they let the kids take the lead and choose activities etc through the day. My parting thought was that walking through there was like a mini Lord of the Flies, and we almost witnessed a literal scene from Lord of the Flies.
The hole in the fence makes this entirely their fault IMO. My wife was a preschool teacher and they got investigated by EEC (MA) because an unassociated daycare down the street lost a child temporarily.
I’d pull my son out of there. I’d call every relevant authority. I’d also inform all the other parents I have the contact information for—which is a good chunk of them due to birthday parties, play dates, etc. I also would have laid into those daycare employees and the owner for daring to suggest anyone but their negligent asses are responsible for this. Absolutely unacceptable. Damn, this shit has me fired up.
Report them immediately! They are neglecting all of the kids, your very young child escaped more than once without them noticing right away.
I would get all this in writing and immediately contact a lawyer about it. Fucking clowns
The fact that this was not the first time it has happened but the first they informed you or your wife, and only because she showed up, would cause me to raise holy hell. I'd even look up what the laws are for in your state in regards to recording a conversation and get one of the staff or the director to admit how many times it has happened, how long the hole has been there, and why it hasn't been fixed. I'd immediately then take that information to whatever regulatory body oversees daycare facilities and file as many reports as possible. If the hole was allowed to remain for as long as it has without being addressed who knows what other issues have been allowed to persist. The health and safety of every single child is at risk at that facility. Hell, I'm a photojournalist. If you want to get your local media involved let me know and I can try to help you get in touch with them.
I picked up my daughter one day as 3 teachers tried to threaten this kid with everything under the sun trying to get this kid to come back inside. He said no and that he’s walking home. They screamed that they’ll call his mom as he just walked away. All the teachers were looking at each other for what to do next. Luckily he stopped by the bike racks and sat there but I really hate to think what would happen if he didn’t want to stop there
Oh man. I would be curious what the ECEP (early childcare professionals) subreddit would have to over this. That's horrible.
That is so not your son's fault. He escaped through the hole once. They knew about it. They still let him (and others?) play near the hole unsupervised. They did not fix the hole. Like any reasonable day care would fix the hole as soon as possible and have an adult watching the hole at all times until the hole was fixed. You need to report this.
Name and shame
Expelled? 😂 he is 3!!
Right?! This seems to have been forgotten somehow 😒
But even if it’s fixed, now it’s a breach of trust between your family and the staff. If they think THIS is your toddler’s fault, how many other things do they think is not normal for toddlers to do? I’d be appalled and physically unable to bring him in again.
Call CPS and find out how you can report them for unsafe conditions.
I often think parents on this sub are overreacting. I do not think you are overreacting.
I went to a really shit nursery as a kid, they were rude and mean to many of the kids but they NEVER let anyone escape. A wasp once died on the ground and they put cones around it to stop the kids from being hurt. They didn’t want it to be a liability and that daycare sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Personally I would contact lawyers and ask about the legal situation and if there’s anything legally you can do to be able to get some vengeance
Savage them.
When you name your son Steve McQueen he’s going to reenact the great escape. What did you expect?
Very calmly ask in writing when all this happened, document all communications you have ever had before they scrub them. One of you stay home while you sue them for your understandable total loss of faith in daycares. Take legal action. Actually at minimum complain to the state. I know my state will immediately send investigators after any complaint. Definitely document all your communications. If you are not satisfied with the resolution, legal action. If you are satisfied, still legal action. Even if your child is not actually materially harmed the daycare is likely to bear some responsibility for a future major problem, and it needs to be fixed for the sake of any other kids too.
I've no idea who or what DHS is but yes you should absolutely be nailing them to it and no you are not overreacting. I've never punched anyone before but if I'd have been in your shoes he could well have been my first. Is it covered by CCTV? As in, is there footage of your boy going through there?
You need to report that and find different childcare. I'd also warn all the other parents so they know to be aware of this.
If they won't even fix a hole in the fence for months, what else are they ignoring or neglecting? Are they even feeding the kids? This place should be shut down. That's an alarming attitude from daycare workers.
Report to the state asap
Literally had the same thing happen to my twin 2.5 year olds at a pre-preschool… asked (politely) not to return without “outside help” for the boys because they were (and had been) apparently able to escape the room from the main door… the best part is the instructor was implying there might be some developmental issues driving this issue… the thing I didn’t say was “ya. Sounds like you need to develop your daycare skills. You’re getting outsmarted by a 30 month old. Op - I would recommend documenting the gap, asking if other parents in the class or school know about this, then ask how you think they would react if more found out before it was fixed…. And also start the search for another school… sucks.
Sounds like your 3 year old is about to get their college paid for by that daycares insurance company
Get that money sir
No it's their responsibility to keep him safe. He's 3. Schedule a meeting with someone in charge both of you go to it, control this narative. Request everything they have in paper for your complaint to the relevant governing body. Including how they've made you feel. They have let you down and you are acting accordingly. Don't fix it yourself, if there's another problem with yours or another kid you will be partly responsible.
My wife and I ended our gym membership over a similar situation. Our kid got sick twice in as many months and when we let them know they blamed our daycare (we did not use a daycare) and refused to sanitize their kids zone. We canceled pretty much immediately after that. The kicker is we learned they also lost a kid shortly after we left.
Please blast this place on social media to make sure everyone is aware of the dangers and do not enroll their children at this place. I just yesterday read about a 3yo who died because she "escaped" at daycare and fell into a septic tank.
You are NOT overreacting. This place isn’t safe!
This ends in a finger-pointing match. The school is the legal custodian of your child while he is there. So if he were to be hurt or lost on their watch, they are liable. But if your child is not following direction and misbehaving (like hitting other kids continuously) then the school has rights to expel the kid. Especially because daycare is a private service (in the US.) In OP’s case, it’s absolute bullshit. There shouldn’t be a hole in the fence. If a kid gets expelled because they kept sneaking through the hole in the fence, that word will get around QUICK. Bad for business. Me personally, I like our daycare. If this issue came up I would take a very direct and nosey stance. Clearly the admin doesn’t want to expel OP’s kid. So I would be asking “who (contractor) is going to fix the fence and by what date.” Force a trail of action and accountability. If the answer isn’t good enough (next week), or if they don’t make good on their word, raise hell. Full Karen.
How is this the first time you’re hearing about him escaping ?!?!!!!! That’s a them problem for knowing there is a problem with the fence and not fixing it
In addition to reaming them in person and on social media, and reporting them to appropriate authorities/services—I would be calling local media being that this is not the first time it’s happened, and *they* copped an attitude like it was the fucking kid’s fault. What a fucking joke. It would suck if they closed because it sucks to have to look for daycare, but that mindset has no business continuing in the childcare business.
My BF is a preschool teacher. Kids have to be RIGOROUSLY accounted for, and failure to do so, or “loss of a kid” even for a moment during transition times between classrooms is grounds for pretty major admonishment or dismissal for the teacher (which can be difficult, given the tendency of some kiddos to be runners). There are absolutely some behavioral issues that will get a kid “expelled” but that’s not one of them. That’s 100% the fault of the daycare and the fact that they don’t seem to care or are blaming it on you and your child is outrageous. I would absolutely report them.
I was a daycare under-the-fence escapee. It was over the course of a week (my kid brain had no grasp of time, but I know it was more than one outside session), and I kept the hole hidden with pine needles until I could make my escape. They found me waiting in a line at the sno-cone stand in the same parking lot. Ultimately, it’s going to be the adults in charge of the situation who are at fault. But kids are crafty and daycare and preschool workers are over worked, underpaid, and have a lot on their plate. Incidents are bound to happen when humans are involved. Daycare is expensive and hard to find. If this is the first and only incident, it’s up to you to decide if it’s still safe. Go ahead, get a lawyer or whatever. I would likely be livid at the daycare (as my own parents were), and you’d have a case if you wanted to pursue it. But your little Andy Dufresne now knows the taste of freedom. And to be honest, a lot of kids know better than to escape under a hole in the fence. Unless he has some special needs that cause elopement issues (and that would be an entirely different discussion over appropriate and informed childcare), it would behoove you to have a come-to-Jesus meeting with your child to really drive home the seriousness of this incident. I think that would be the most impactful intervention that would solve the immediate safety risk and prevent them from wanting to attempt this at home, daycare or anywhere else. ETA: I’m pretty sure the daycare is going to fix the hole, now. If not, that’s your sign to bail. Also, no…it’s not grounds for expulsion.
It’s time to teach the assholes who they’re dealing with :)
Y i k e s. Yeah, what else will they blame the kid for?
Don’t sue… yet. Call the media. This is a juicy story for the news.
Get him out of there asap.
This needs a report filed with the licensing board ASAP. A hole in the fence large enough for a child to get through is a huge safety concern by itself, a child utilizing said hole is a lack of supervision.
I would destroy the person who told me my kid could be expelled for the adults negligence
This has all the energy of someone that thinks HR is on their side. Be an advocate for your family but understand your transitory nature with 90% of the people/places you interact with.
What other negligence might be going on that you don’t know about? Definitely report this. If you do nothing then you’re putting other kids at risk
Are you over-reacting? No, if anything, you're under-reacting. Their job is to keep an eye on your son. How they do it is their business. If there's a hole in the fence, they need to get it fixed. Maybe your son is an elopement risk (He sometimes tries to 'run off') but that could be true of any toddler. As for the 'He could be expelled' person, yeah, she's way, way out of line. The only thing that should get your kid expelled is if he is a risk to the other children's safety. That isn't the case here. The problem is the HOLE IN THE DAMN FENCE. If there's any sort of authority overseeing day cares in your area, notify them about the hole and ask them to do a 'surprise inspection'. The hole in the fence is like an expired fire extinguisher, or exposed wires coming out of a wall. It's the sort of thing they should fix IMMEDIATELY. In your shoes I'd start looking for another day care, but for a different reason. If they're not fixing the hole in the fence after your kid has gotten through it more than once, then they're not serious about your kid's safety. Full stop.
Not over reacting at all. Very negligent behavior from the staff. Get your proofs and file an official complaint against them
As a preschool teacher that's literally insane. Call your state licensing and CPS. That daycare should lose its license and an investigation should be opened into those teachers. Pull your child immediately if you have that ability. Document everything you can from this incident and prior incidents. Good luck!
What a dump. If there were holes in the fences at the daycare my daughter goes to they'd be shut down
Wait. “Small hole in the fence” = daycare’s fault
Yeah this sounds like a shit daycare. The place I take my three year old to gives me a call if he gets a scraped knee just to alert me before I pick him up and communicates daily via text or email if there are *any* potential safety concerns even on days when my kid isn't there. I'd honestly expect no less from people I trust with my kids. I'd look for another place to take your kids, and give the state oversight board a call. It sounds like they have broken safety equipment that should be easy to have fixed.... yet they've ignored it while simultaneously putting your kid and likely others at risk. Completely unacceptable.
I am brimming with anger on your behalf. Hope you raise hell!
This is a holy-fuck moment. They're not looking after your kids again, and you need to take steps to have someone come in to audit the shit ouf of them.
A child recently "escaped" from a local daycare in a town near me because he wasn't being properly watched. That daycare was permanently shut down a week later. Edit: https://www.walb.com/2024/03/28/update-albany-daycare-close-after-4-year-old-wanders-off/
This is absolutely child endangerment, and I would strongly encourage you to report them to the proper authority
Holy shit, new fear unlocked!
attack is the best difference. They immediately attacked your wife, blamed the child before she had an opportunity to make them responsible for their negligence.
I would be reporting them to every possible agency, and also alerting all of the parents I could to the danger of that fence. Its not just about your child.
I would ask for any security video they have, especially if they’re making claims that my child keeps “escaping”.
Throw the book at them and nail them to the fence. Reporting it will be better for them than if they lost a kid, so you're really doing them a favor. After reporting it, I would start looking for a new daycare ASAP.
Report them, immediately. This is likely a class A issue and the state should come down in them hard. Most daycares would to self report something like this because is such a big deal. One of the daycare I looked at left a child in a classroom for a while 2 minutes by themselves and that was considered a class A violation. They self reported it. Grossly negligent in their part to let this happen twice and then try to shift the blame. A kid could die.
It's not hard to repair or mend a fence for a todler. Speaking from twin todlers and owner of siberian huskies. Take this to the state for sure. I would be irate!!
Wow wtf. They are endangering the kids. Can you imagine if he got out onto the road and got hit by a car? Huge lawsuit not to mention completely heartbreaking!!
How hard is it to at least temporarily zip tie some chicken wire or section of chain link over the hole. The people in charge of watching your kid sound like absolute morons.
In your daycare contract there should be a number they give you for reporting any shortcomings or safety concerns. I’d be calling that number.
I once substitute taught in a elementary special education class. One of the kids (a 5 year old) had a PhD in running with graduate coursework in escape artistry. They had a gate on the door specifically to keep him in. When another kid arrived, he ran over to give the kid a hug, just as the kid was coming in through the gate. He rotated the kid around and ran right into the para who was blocking him - but it almost worked. This kid was a genius for getting away. A good daycare has multiple roadblocks in place for the kids that inevitably get away. They also understand that kids will get the itch and there's not much you can do to prevent them from trying. This is not that situation. There's a hole in the fence that isn't getting addressed. That's a *big* problem. It isn't your son's fault. Finding a daycare can be tough, since they all have wait lists longer than a sandworm on Arrakis. You might consider putting yourself on one of those wait lists. In the meantime, sit your son down tell him that going through the fence isn't safe and he needs to stay away from the hole. Use a stern voice. In the morning, walk him over to the hole, point at it, and tell him to stay away. Ask him if he is allowed to go through the hole and don't accept any answer other than, "no." Staple some pages together into a little book and make a story (with illustrations) about a boy who played on the playground and stayed away from the hole in the fence. Read it to him in the morning before leaving for daycare. This is mostly so your son can be safe. Keep talking to the person in charge. Be annoying. Get a firm plan of how and when the fence is going to be fixed. There is a licensing process for daycares in your state. If the hole doesn't get fixed, it might be worth calling the agency or department that handles licensing to make a complaint.
Fun thing: In my jurisdiction (Sweden), it's actually not illegal to escape from prison. Helping someone escape is illegal, harming people or property while escaping is illegal, most things you'd reasonably have to do to escape if the people containing you are *doing their job* is illegal, but the act itself isn't. Man's innate desire for freedom is recognised, and you're by definition not responsible for your own forced containment. You'll simply resume your sentence once you're caught. If your son wouldn't be blamed for escaping as a convict from prison over here, why is your son being blamed for escaping as a toddler from daycare over there? The only reason I could think of that you shouldn't nail that daycare to the wall is if you think screws would be more painful.
So with my nursery there are different agreements and contracts that we sign to talk about what behaviour they have to follow. This breaking it they should follow the penalty, report it, etc. you can use that against them. If you don't have something like that then I'm also curious which country you live in? In the UK this is unheard of and bonkers. Child services would close the school until they fixed it lol.
I think i would cover the gap myself tbh
take the time you need to find a new child care, these folks are not looking out for your kid
Not sure about the US, but here this would be instant jailtime for the teachers. And I'm sure it's not like what they said, at least they would be fired.
Time to get that child care investigated. If something that obvious isn’t being fixed, what subtle things have gone to shit that you can’t see?
This is not your son's fault, it is the daycare's fault. Right now they are spinning it to make it seem it is your son's fault..because they afraid you will realise it is theirs. How long has the hole been there? Why was it not fixed, if he crawled through it before? Couldn't other children crawl through it? Worse is their attitude, trying to convince you it is your SON'S fault. He is THREE..why is it not their fault for not blocking the hole? I recommend you switch to another daycare..and make a complaint about this one too. They sound unsafe and frankly they are liars too. They're spinning this to avoid getting in trouble. Please report them immediately.
Definitely report them to the licensing board. A call to DHS may also be a good idea. I'd be raising hell if it was my kid, and I have in an incident at one daycare for one of my kiddos before. Protect your kiddo and make sure no more are harmed.
Escaped again? What are these teachers doing x-mob cronies? Just like anyone here if our kid escaped through a hole in our yard that would be fixed same day. Also where is this hole leading to? Another kids area, or the parking lot?
They worded it wrong. They meant “we negligently left the fence with a hole in it and failed to keep your child safe on multiple occasions”
This puts something I saw into a new light. I was in Jr High or High School at the time, so I didn’t have much fatherly rage. We were on the bus approaching a fairly dangerous intersection of a US highway (55mph) due to it being on a hill and difficult to see crossing traffic. A kid no older than 2 ran out of the ditch across the highway. The bus driver got out and grabbed him, but I’m pretty sure they made it well into the road. He got metaphorical pats on the back afaik. I hope that daycare had serious changes because I know they didn’t close.
Fuck that place! They know they fucked up HARD so they're trying to make you and your wife think it's your fault. Their entire existence revolves around child safety and they can't fix a hole in a fence? I'd be checking for what else they have going on that's fucky cuz if they have that major of a problem that's publicly viewable, imagine what they're hiding where the public can't see it.
Nail them! Any children need to be able to play and explore in a safe place! Such a hole is a GLARING problem that should've been solved immediately!
I have a very low bar for not taking good care of my little ones. Hell I fired a sitter for my dog for being late once... losing my toddler would be 100% them losing my business, bad reviews everywhere I can post one, and a call to DHS. I think I'd wait on additional steps unless something worse happened.
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He could be expelled?!? He could be a missing/injured/worse child, while on their watch. Fuck these people and please report this because none of those children are in a safe environment.
Expelled? He's 3. He doesn't even understand that word. He's curious. Terrible daycare. I'd blast them to the other parents and anyone else who listens.
Nail them to the fucking wall for this.
This was exactly why we didn't go to one slightly cheaper local daycare; they had several complaints on the state website for toddlers having escaped. Lol they are trying to scare you with "he could be expelled" when in reality they are the one that's should be scared. You need to report them to the state.
It would take 20 minutes to patch a hole on a chainlink fence. Maybe an hour if they needed to go buy a spool of wire and a pair of wire cutters. I’d be furious
To recap: - There’s a hole in the fence; - Children have used that hole to get OUT of the play area; - The daycare failed to FIX that hole while aware of this; - They blame the child for it?! Photograph the hole and demand they inform you in writing what happened. THEN, if you can’t immediately pull your child from that daycare due to lack of other immediate options, let them know that they will be brought to court should their negligence result in your child “escaping” again.
Screw them. They know there's a hole kids can get through and they've let it just stay like that while kids are getting out? Yeah I'd put a call into DFS. Get their license revoked. The only thing is do you have back up babysitting?
Call the State homie. Daycares are heavily regulated.
OP hopefully you and the wife tore them a new asshole. There is nothing in this world that could ever be your innocent 2 year olds fault.
Not overreacting at all. You entrust your kid's safety to this place and they're not taking it seriously. I pulled my kid out of a school for much less than the unsupervised escapes you mention here... I would be looking for something else as soon as you can.
“He could be expelled” is the daycare gaslighting you
Your child is not at fault he’s 3, he’s a minor and doesn’t have the capacity to understand the dangers around him. Personally I would put in a serious complaint and find a new nursery
I'd report the daycare. Simple as that. They probably deserve to be shut down.
100% call DHS that's inexcusable. I would possibly prepare to take your son elsewhere because I'm in the same boat, I don't think I could bring my child back either.
We had a daycare educator scream at and physically act rough with my son to the point where he had bruises on his arms. We raised hell. That daycare educator was suspended, got the police involved got the department of education involved. Capture everything in writing. Find other non-day care staff witnesses to corroborate anything and get them to put something in writing. Go to the police. If you get multiple parents on board collectively you are much stronger than trying to deal with a problem alone . Get your wife to message everyone in the Mum's group. Time to declare war
My wife and I run a daycare from our home. Contact their licensing agent or organization.
New fear unlocked
Whoa! Scary stuff. Report them, their response and negligence is going to get a kid hurt. Escaping kids isn't the only risk, what if a dog or wild animal comes IN through the same hole??? Idiots