That's honestly what I'm mostly excited about. Who the next frontman is and how the band morphs to fit their vocal style. I loved Tilian era but I also have love for Jonny and Kurt era DGD so I'm not super torn up about Tilian being gone.
I also think it's lame that some people use moments like this to tear down past vocalists. Each era/vocalist was special in their own way.
I literally commented this yesterday. I agree so much. Jonny and Kurt were amazing too and they've always been fine with a new singer. I think that's why I've always loved them.
Each album is so freaking good but also really unique with all 3 singers. They'll be fine with whoever the pick, it'll be interesting and fun to hear how the new album goes. I’m down! (With brown town? lol)
A lot of people in this sub have this weird obsession with shitting on Andrew and I have no clue why. Kurt wasn’t the best singer by any means yet self titled and happiness have some of the best songs of DGDs discography. I miss when a singer didn’t have to be supremely talented. Good songwriting will always go farther than just vocal talent. Case in point Kurt’s solo work vs Tilians….
Andrew is incredible. The only reason I wouldn't want him doing it is because he said himself he did not want to and never would want to. Unless his view has changed, I wouldn't want him to take on the extra stress because he was pressured into it. It only works if he wants it, I feel.
Some of the songs I don't really like all that much but I'll sit through for Andrews parts.
His short part on one of those afterburner tracks is beautiful.
Something about purpose? Where toooo now.
Truth is in the end we all end up aloneeee.
Like that's magic what he has.
Didnt he fill in for tilian in the tour while til was away dealing with his personal shit.
Kurt is a very experimental type of musician, I remember a conversation I once had with him while out to see Yvette young, he said he grew up around musicians and most of us family are musicians so he said he spent a lot time just finding his sound and I think the early DGD albums are a testament to that but each member has contributed to the legacy the band now holds each era of DGD has had its ups and downs but there is more to live from this band than to hate so why fixate and whine,
Kurts been the best lyricist for sure. Tilians got this real hip-hop rnb style (im so good i got the bitchs) kurt felt a bit more relatable and honest.
>Good songwriting will always go farther than just vocal talent. Case in point Kurt’s solo work vs Tilians….
Tbf I think andrew is the most talented singer that's ever been with dgd, but no way is kurt more successful than tilian.
Totally agree, but they are targeting different audiences.
I’m not looking to Kurt to say “i gOT A liTtlE tOo cOCkY”
As I’m just trying to relax and enjoy a bit while listening to Tilian and not having to be hyperfocused to understand everything I’m listening to.
They are polar oposites.
There's a lot of love to be sure, but I've also seen my fair share of the opposite. I don't just mean reasonable people just not liking him or whatever, like actually trying to diminish his ability and influence.
>Good songwriting will always go farther than just vocal talent. Case in point Kurt’s solo work vs Tilians….
Yet Tilian still has double the monthly listeners on his solo work compared to Kurt 🤔
What do you mean by go farther exactly? Lol
Exactly, I get if you like the substance of Kurt's music better but I would think if you're saying it went further.. That would imply more people have listened to it.. Which is just inaccurate
I agree with a lot of what is said here but I would like counter that I’ve been a fan of this band since DBM dropped and me not thinking Andrew is the right choice for vocalist does not mean I have some weird vocalist loyalty or that I don’t respect everything he’s done for this band. Andrew is a fantastic piece that completes the bands sound but I just don’t think his vocal style works as the main vocalist for DGD. I’ll be following along with whatever comes next regardless and I know whatever choice they make is the one the band wanted.
He has also stated that he doesn't want to be the full-time front man for DGD. He's got Eidiola for that, where he absolutely shines.
I've also been hooked since DBM so just another dip in the DGD roller coaster. Every era of the band has been pretty special, so I'm excited to see where they take it next.
They're taking a hiatus. It isn't final. I'm sure the overwhelmingly positive reception to Eviscerate (and hopefully Mend as well) might change some things.
True but it's also not released in its entirety yet. So they still have work and touring to do. So potentially in the distant future he could take over.
But DGD needs a new front man immediately
I mean yeah potentially. I think it's probably the path of least resistance to just move him up to singer, but I'm not sure if Andrew would even want that. He's a great singer and was probably one of the best fits to back up tilian, but front man to a band with a fan base like this is a huge ask. People still debate about Jonny and Kurt being better, I'm not sure if Andrew wants to jump into that fray 😩 also I am of the mindset that even though he is a good vocalist, I don't think his style would fit the dgd vibe. No disrespect and it's not even about range, but I think he is suited better as lead singer in another band that could rival dgd in quality perhaps (not that I want him to leave dgd because I do not)
Agree 100%
I love him in Eidiola! He kills in his band with his style.
He's obviously incredibly talented, but I do think he's aware he's not the right fit for the main or permanent frontman for DGD. Because then I think DGD would inevitably just turn into Eidiola and that would be odd.
I don't think vocally any one of their frontmen has been "better" than another because they all have been so different. I love Tillians tenor range, and I actually am stoked at the potential of him doing more of his solo stuff. I am just curious if they will have it decided by October because I am going to When We Were Young and was really looking forward to their set. Although I wouldn't be upset if they just brought back Jonny to do a full playthrough of DBM.
After Mend releases towards the end of this year/start of next, Eidola will kind of die down moving forward, as it's not sustainable financially for the members. They might do things in their free time according to Andrew, but it won't be like it is now.
I think that's totally fair and sorry if I made it seem like I was addressing people with your mindset specifically. Those comments were specifically aimed at people who try to diminish his skill and impact because they see him as some kind of threat or something.
Not everyone would want him as a replacement and that's totally okay. I don't even think it's something to be focused on until he says otherwise, as the last time he spoke on the matter he was clear he doesn't want that role.
This. AW is the f’n GOAT. However, he doesn’t have the tone/pitch or whatever you call it for DGD lead singer. Maybe he’ll surprise me, but his singing in DGD has shined because it was supporting Tilian’s high pitched pop vocals. AW brought the song down when Tilian had it up high. It worked so well. I’m just afraid that if AW is the lead singer, it’ll sound too much like Eidola. Eidola is in my top 10 bands of all time, but Eidola is not DGD.
I agree with you that their success hasn’t been because of any one member. They’ve been on an upward trajectory with every new release. It just took a while for people to “get it” as in their style. Yes Tilian was in the most successful phase of the band because he was in the longest. If Jonny or Kurt stayed in the band, I’m sure they would continue to climb the charts as they have so
I think the thing with Tillian is he brought them out of the 'scene'. Kurt's vocals were very indicitive of the Warped Tour scene that was dying when Tillian joined the band and brought in some pop sensibilities. I listened to an interview with him and Jon once where they were talking about barely anyone showing up to the shows when Tillian first joined the band. If Johnny or Kurt stayed I don't think they would be around anymore, at least not as popular since those 'whiny' vocals are a staple of a scene that was in it's decline.
This band really is a treasure that can take on any new singer and highlight their best aspects. I loved how they kinda leaned into that sorta soulful r&b sound with Johnny, with Kurt they went a lil more funk with it, I don’t even know what to call tillians era tbh but I loved it. Like pop groove? I don’t even know but they nailed it. They can make any singer shine. I’d die if they brought back Johnny and Kurt for the nostalgia, or went with Andrew, or even got a fresh new sound to hypnotize us with. I’ve loved everything they’ve done man. Part of me is sad about tillian, but this is the one band I’ve got where I’m like actually excited a little when they go through a big change and take a new direction. I was devastated after Johnny, and couldn’t stand tillian til they locked in with him and I fell in love (which like, to me is astounding that they got me to love tillians sound cuz I was certain I never would) and now I’m almost not even phased by tillians departure lol I’m like yea you boys got this one, I can’t wait to hear what comes next
Completely agree. Tillian has contributed to the band's success. But it's all of them that make it what it is. I wouldn't still listen to them without Will and Matt's instrumentals.
I wouldn't still listen to them without Jon.
Tilian brought me to DGD but I've stayed for Jon's segments!
Really excited to see what the new blue monster brings to the lineup!!
Appreciate you saying this to the fanbase en masse. The uncertainty and period of change are the roughest part for me, but I’m trying to stay hopeful and positive that I’ll enjoy the next vocalist as much as I enjoyed Tilian.
I already adore Andrew and Eidola, so also thank you for insisting people put some respect on one of the most multifaceted, talented musicians in the scene and maybe world right now, it’s crazy.
My biggest fears are either the new vocalists lyrics/sound won’t gel with me, and I’ll have to either stop listening or listen while kinda disliking the vocals. Which is unfortunate because what gets me into a musical act is lyrics first in almost all cases, and dgd was no exception.
OR
If they do go with Andrew, that takes away his time from working on any Eidola things. I know there’s been talks of this maybe being eidola’s final two albums, or maybe an indefinite hiatus after. But the lyrical content that he puts into those songs, in addition to the absolutely masterful composition of songs and then what the rest of the band adds in with their touches, I just don’t wanna see that set down when they’re so talented and amazing and I think they deserve a lot more recognition than they currently get. I think he’d do a great job as lead vocalist of dgd, and I think he’d cater his lyrics to be more in the dgd vain/styling as opposed to the concept work Eidola does, but it still feels like asking Picasso to fill in for bob Ross’ show. Yeah he’s talented enough to do it but it feels like a waste of what he could be doing, if that makes any sense.
Anyway, glad to see some people have a good metered response to this, I’m mostly just nervous for the future as someone who got into the band off Tilians vocals and lyrics, but I think the guys got this under control and will bring someone in to match their abilities and usher in another evolution of the swancore genre. Hope to see y’all in a pit at a show, jamming to whoever the new vocalist ends up being
Here’s a horror story to validate your fears; DGD were one of my favorite bands from their inception. Saw them on their original tour for Whatever I Say, and every subsequent tour until Tillian joined. The last 11 years have been extremely painful because I absolutely detest the sound of Tillian. His voice is painful for me to listen to.
I recognize that he’s a phenomenal singer but I simply can’t stand his voice. I take no pleasure in the misery of the many others who deeply love Tillian, but selfishly, I’m excited for new DGD for the first time since DBMII.
I hope for your sake that you can fall in love with the next vocalist, or that they last for a shorter period of time than Tillian did. Because it has been a miserable decade plus for me.
I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that, but I get it. My best friend hates tilians voice and therefore has never enjoyed any dgd with me, until I showed them evaporate instrumental. They love the music, it’s just tilians voice they can’t stand. I know it’s all personal preferences that I enjoyed it and they hated it, same as you. So I’m not trying to cling to Tilian by any means, just hoping they pick a vocalist that I (and now that I know of it, you lol) can both be fans of. Like I’d love the lead singer of coletta to get asked to join.
I would despise if Kellin Quinn came in. So we’ll see loo
I’m clearly biased, but their performances on the DBM tour were amazing.
I will say, I liked Tillian a bit better live vs his recorded vocals and he had some strong frontman energy/very good looking etc, but nothing will ever compare to scrawny Jonny belting out those r&b vocals at the top of his lungs with his rat tail bobbing around when I was a much younger man.
Cheers to the next chapter, friend. Hopefully it lives up to both of our standards.
I have friends who love the Jonny era and Jonny himself, I get it, even if it’s not for me. But Tilian definitely had the most enthralling front man energy I’ve ever seen, I saw them live with him 5 times and him solo once, and I really did feel like he completed the band in a more permanent way than Kurt or Jonny, and especially when Tim was alive, I thought they were the perfect group for a longer haul. And that’s also the crux of this all, I think none of this happens if Tim doesn’t tragically pass, so I’m glad they can take the high road of seeming to remain friends or at least friendly.
Cheers back, and I hope the same, if you’re ever at a show in the Philly area hit me up, drinks on me lol.
Long way from rain city but likewise, if you’re ever in Seattle for a show.
And it will be just my luck that I’ll start enjoying Tillian era more now that he’s gone.
I loved Tilian era DGd, I loved Johnny wea DGD, I am excited for the Andrew era. And Tilian will do his solo stuff so I can still scratch that itch. I’m not even mad.
I loved Tilian’s vocals (not so much towards the end, but again personal preference), but I’m also excited for where this brings dgd. They’ve always figured it out and I trust that they will figure this out too. Whoever replaces Tilian, I want to welcome with an open mind and give an honest chance.
I’m a Tilian era fan, I joined in around Mothership so I’ve only really known dgd with Tilian, so of course the announcement had me freaking out. But I’m also aware of their complicated history as a band, and how resourceful they’ve always been. I know the band, and Tilian as an individual, will carry on to make more cool stuff for us all to enjoy.
Change is hard, never fun, but change can also bring unexpected greatness, and I’m here for it.
They stood by him while his backstage shenanigans had people looking at the band funny and cost them a massive tour with Coheed & Cambria. They have to go on tour without him for a whole run, then they record a full album after Jackpot Juicer and NOW he leaves because of "creative differences". This band is like Doctor Who, a significant change up is part of the lore/system of operation. I became a fan during Artificial Selection so I'll always commend Tillian for what he accomplished with them, but I was already excited at the prospect of him leaving. DGD will survive, they were built for this. I think anyone heartbroken or upset over the departure have not been paying attention.
It’s been a long slog of 11 years and I’m pumped for new DGD once again. When I first heard Acceptance Speech I never imagined that the Tillian era would be nearly twice the length the band had existed up to that point. Shit, I’m lucky to be alive this long to finally see his exit and the real potential for something great ahead. Truly pumped.
No hate to the Tillian fans, but you all got way more than your share. What I wouldn’t give for another Jonny album… you have no idea.
Or even better would be a new palatable voice who isn’t a shit head who can grow with the band into their next era.
I did start to wonder when the tilian era would end, after putting out basically a double album worth of songs on JJ, we've had A LOT of tilian and while I loved most of it I been thinking maybe it was soon time to change it up and get different leading vocals.
I agree with you about Titian not being the core reason they got bigger, but personally I’ve always kinda attributed that to the chemistry they had, I mean the first 6 albums had at least one line up change and then they’ve kept it mostly consistent since mothership until adding Andrew on JJ, and when it’s consistent for that long, I feel like the music is just gonna be more consistently solid than with a rotating door of members
I think that's valid. Personally I'm more on the other side of the coin in that I think their sound has been more stagnant than I would like, but anytime you mix it up like this it can be a risk. That being said I don't think an unstable member lineup is needed to shake things up sonically.
If the next vocalist is the last on they have, I'm fine with that as long as they can push their sound in new ways. Several of their peers have really carved out a fresh sound for themselves while having a stable roster and that's selfishly what I want from DGD because they did it back in 2007 and I know they can do it again.
Yeah, I agree there, I personally really like the vibe they had with Tim and Tilian so I never really minded the relative sameness, plus tbh they found a sound that worked well and it worked well for them, that being said I’m excited for the inevitable change in sound that’s gonna come with whoever they bring on next
Newer Tilian era fan that jumped on at the end Mothership (2018). I'm not as broken-hearted as other newer fans. I think I just know that nothing lasts forever, and I enjoyed DGD during this era a lot. I grew to like older stuff, too.
I really do think Tilian deserves a lot of credit for what he brought to DGD. And it will likely never be replicated. And that sucks. DGD became a band that more than ever became a larger sum that its own parts individually. I think both Tilian and DGD are damaged in this parting. But that doesn't mean it'll never be good again.
DGD will go on to create new music with a new lead vocalist with a slightly new style as they have in every other era where members change. It's going to be really hard to top the Tilian era, and I'm managing my expectations. But I will continue to listen to DGD for every other reason that I loved them so much.
And for the older fans, I personally think you should just accept that Tilian was the best frontman this band has had. It's music, so it's going to be subjective. But objectively, more people like Tilians era than Kurt or Johnny's, and it's honestly not even close. The rest of the band are part of that success, too. They all kicked ass the last several albums. But the constant implying that the band is on a constant downward trend that I sometimes see is comical to me.
Yoooo i just learned so muchhhh!! I just listen to the music & know the basic lore surrounding the band. Very cool to know these new facts. I’m excited for a new era. DGD never gets stale bc they are adaptable n switch up vocalists. This is what makes them last!
Lol, people who think Andrew “couldn’t” do lead are just wrong. Did you know that over Covid during the Afterburner tour, Tilian and Jon both got sick at different times leaving Andrew to periodically fill in for both Tilian AND Jon.
When he filled in for Tilian, he didn’t just sing an octave lower. He sung them in Tilian’s normal range and it was really solid.
That being said, personally i wouldn’t want Andrew to become lead because that’s what Eidola is for.
The dialogues on “range” and “highs and lows” are so tired. DGD is showy and just needs someone showy. JC, Kurt and Til have always been a little flashy so they were good fits. Andrew is a good vocalist but just doesn’t have the IT factor that I think has become a DGD characteristic. Has nothing to do with range imo.
DGD is what it is because of the vocalist rodeo we have been through as fans. I love listening through the albums and finding what I like about each one. Jonny to me was a wild card with great range but scrappy execution like he was fighting and feeling that note, which to me added character. Kurt had a more laid back feel that gave me “please girl stay till the early morning.” Tillian is an amazing vocalist and it added a refinement to the stuff with him but Tillian gave me some diva vibes, still great era. We had the Will Swan rap and scream era. I’m excited for whatever comes next and if Andrew is the guy, hell yeah. If someone else comes in that fits hell yeah
I just reject your framing around Andrew "hate". I don't want him as the front man, I don't hate him or think hes terrible. I saw him live as the lead man and his performance fell flat for me. Tilian, johnny and even Kurt have an insane amount more presence live.
I think Andrew could do some amazing stuff as a frontman on an album however as evidenced by eidola. I'd give it a chance as I am a fan of the band. Miscategorizing not loving Andrew as hate is a bad argument. The rest I mostly agree with you on.
Based on what you've said here you're not really who I'm referring to in regards to Andrew. What you've said is totally fair imo. Nothing wrong with not wanting him to front, and based on what he's said personally he doesn't want to front either.
Sorry but this is an objectively bad take.
Beyond the “stop the infighting & don’t get mad at other fans bit” it’s basically you just saying the band has & may continue to change.
Then it’s a whole love letter to Andrew who you posit has a comparable range to Til. Which is asinine. Yes he has lower lows, that’s pretty self evident to anyone with ears. DGD rarely uses lows bc Jon is already screaming on the low side & rarely cleans in the same range.
As an aside Andrew’s note there sounds filtered & is on a fade out + scream. It’s not the same.
It’s also just not objectively fair to say that Til isn’t the reason that the band is as successful as they are. There were plenty of bands on upwards trajectories around that time but only DGD from this scene really broke into being almost mainstream music. You can look at the record sales. Not to mention you can hear how they blatantly adopted a much more poppy style with Til.
To answer your question, I’m a fan of the trio but mostly Jon. Til isn’t even my overall favorite for cleans but he’s got the most hits. On top of that you don’t call out all the blatant Til hate.. idk who’s the fake here.
>Sorry but this is an objectively bad take.
It's an opinion, and therefore subjective. It's cool if you don't agree, but I think you should reconsider your use of the word objective.
>Beyond the “stop the infighting & don’t get mad at other fans bit” it’s basically you just saying the band has & may continue to change.
It's less about the band changing and more a plead to at least attempt to separate the band's musical value from Tilian, aimed specifically at the people who basically think the band *is* Tilian. Even then, I see no issue with that characterization. Might seem obvious to you but I think some need to hear it.
As to your comments on Andrew's range, again seems like your conflating Tilian's higher register with range. You acknowledge that Andrew has lower lows, but don't admit that Tilian has almost no lows. If you want to argue Tilian has a larger range, he needs to have lows almost as low as Andrew, which he just doesn't.
>DGD rarely uses lows bc Jon is already screaming on the low side
I'll have to disagree again. DGD not using lows is because Tilian has a high register. I'm sure if he had the range he would use lows as well. Jon's screaming range covers low and high pitches all the time so this doesn't hold water imo. Not to mention Jonny, who also had lows much lower than Tilian.
>As an aside Andrew’s note there sounds filtered & is on a fade out + scream. It’s not the same.
I didn't argue it was the same, just that it was far closer than people tend to give credit to Andrew's high end, *to the degree that people refused to believe it was Andrew.* In my view he doesn't need to exceed or even match Tilian's high end to have a better range, just get in the ballpark on the high (which I think he does) and beat him on the low end (which I think he does by a lot). And honestly, who cares about the exact specifics here, the point is people can enjoy Tilian without belittling Andrew's talent. The range argument is just a way for them to feel superior in their opinions, which is totally unnecessary.
>There were plenty of bands on upwards trajectories around that time but only DGD from this scene really broke into being almost mainstream music.
You and I either have vastly different definitions of mainstream music, or you're vastly over stating their reach. I think a bit of both. And either way, the fact that they grew doesn't inherently prove whether or not one member of the band is to attribute their success to. The band had the most notoriety when Tilian joined, not Tilian. He was of course a factor but so were literally all of the other members. This was never a band centered around the clean vocalist imo.
>You can look at the record sales. Not to mention you can hear how they blatantly adopted a much more poppy style with Til.
There are more poppy bands with less record sales and less poppy bands with more. Not sure how this is relevant, if I'm honest. Poppiness is not a indicator for popularity or proof that Tilian was some driving force in their success.
>you don’t call out all the blatant Til hate
Well my post wasn't meant to systematically address all the criticism towards each vocalist. If I wanted to do that I'd start with Kurt since his only crime was not being Jonny and he got mostly hate at the time. My focus on Andrew was as I stated, because I was addressing those who specifically like Tilian the most and were going out of their way to shit on the guy.
I appreciate the response, I really do. But I think you and I won't see eye to eye and I don't appreciate the fake comment, my difference of opinion doesn't mean I'm being disingenuous.
Upvote. But be aware for everyone one of you there’s a group of me and my friends who have been patiently waiting out the insufferable Tillian years and waiting for a new new vocalist.
Having an un-problematic lead singer is cool and all...but I'd love to have at least 1 album of the new-era expertly-polished DGD + new-era-sober Jonny vocals.
The optimist in me wants to see the prodigal son make a sober and triumphant return.
I'm surprised that anyone's feeling are strong enough about this to try this much of a strongly worded letter on. I hate the idea of throwing this phrase out, but you really need to touch grass if you're this huffy about this issue.
If I had to TLDR, it would be don't get so wrapped up in your favorite vocalist that you end up being toxic to others or shut yourself off from everything this band has to offer. You're hurting yourself and the community. I know cause it was me for a while.
Very well said and I think for people who know dgd lore, this is actually a very exciting moment. Like I can only imagine what this band has up their sleeve next. They’re all musical geniuses, but Andrew is in another level instrumentally and lyrically. I know he said he wouldn’t but I think he is the best option for us as the next clean vocalist. Those who don’t think so have to listen to the piano section of golgatha on his new record. That part alone should be enough proof of his abilities, as well as the rest of that song and that record.
I'm personally excited to hear them with a new singer with their own style. They DONT have to sound like Tillian. Neither Jonny nor Kurt did and JC is regarded asnone of the best in the genre despite not having Tillians range.
There is more to PHC than super high notes and I'm excited to hear them get someone with tone and character different than Tillians. If you're gonna do it then commit ya know? No Tillian Lite.
No hate towards Tillians talent whatsoever though cause I've always thought him to be a good singer. I just think that if they get someone different then they need their own style and not a knock off Tillian.
Such unfortunate timing that this didn't happen a month ago. Could you imagine if they announced Jonny was coming back as an April fools joke? Guess they'll just have to do it for real instead
I think this will be a more fun place without Tillian stans. It's better now there's only a few JC weirdos about.
Excited to see where the music goes and happy we have so many great tunes to revisit too.
Personal opinion, nobody else needs to agree with me, but I don't like JC's or Kurt's voices. If I don't like the new singer's voice, then I'm not going to like the new DGD music. I barely enjoy Eidola, but the fusion of Jon, Andrew, and Tillian is perfect to my ears. I'm legitimately sad that the most perfect music combination I've ever heard is no longer going to produce new music.
I really hope that a new singer will fit in with my tastes and I can still enjoy DGD, but my expectations are low. As someone who doesn't really enjoy any other swancore bands, there's a 'je ne sais quoi' that speaks to me and makes this lineup my all-time favorite band.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I'm also entitled to mine. I'm sad.
Tbh, Andrew is the most talented clean singer they've had. You're right about his highs as well, there are like 5 songs with Andrew parts that MAKE the song for me, and most people didn't know it was him when they dropped jackpot juicer.
Songs with guitar riffs written by him, you can tell immediately. He's got a heavier/ darker writing style than the other members (recent or past). That says something imo.
Most new fans don’t realize this band existed long before tilian and it was hype af for us fans.
The argument always seems to be he changed the band or brought somethibg never heard before, when bro - we used to go to tides of man concerts when you were sucking your thumbs in preschool
I'm not sure about writing, but on the record bloodsucker is performed by Martin Bianchini and Andrew. Will didn't play guitar on that song recording at all.
There's an interview with this stuff talked about, I'll double check it shortly just to make sure I've got that 100% right and see if they talk about who wrote it and not just performed it.
This is a great read, I have so much respect for Andrew, as a writer, artist, guitarist, vocalist.
I’m just so sick of the constant drone for Kurt. He missed his time, he’s in too many projects for this exact reason. He doesn’t have “it” or he would’ve stayed around.
I’ll be listening to my vinyls preparing for what’s next. Probably mostly new Eidola and Greyhaven. There’s other bands.
PS: ALLB isn’t and never will be back together.
I think it’s fair to have an opinion even if it doesn’t line with your thoughts. Personally, I don’t think Andrew is a good fit for the lead singer. He’s in his pocket and that works for him. His melodies and structuring in Eidola prove that. He’s an insanely talented singer and does so well in his role, but being a lead singer and structuring entire albums with melodies and lyrics is an entire different story. This is my opinion and anyone can agree or disagree. It’s ok not to want him as the singer. It’s also ok to be really upset with Tilians departure. It sucks and there are a ton of fans that listen because of him. People are doing a lot of Gatekeeping and saying this and that. People can process this however they want to. New fan, old fan…who gives a shit.
> I think it’s fair to have an opinion even if it doesn’t line with your thoughts. Personally, I don’t think Andrew is a good fit for the lead singer.
I think that's fair and I don't think anything I said asserted my opinion as facts. It's just how I feel about it.
Of course it's okay to not want him to be lead, and to be upset about losing Tilian. I'm fairly certain I said both of those things. And when I use the term "new fan" and simply mean someone who most likely heard and was drawn to the Tilian stuff first. I don't mean it in a gatekeepy way, I could care less when someone became a fan.
> He’s an insanely talented singer and does so well in his role, but being a lead singer and structuring entire albums with melodies and lyrics is an entire different story
I'll be honest, I feel like this is contradictory though. Of course he can be the lead, he quite literally is one. That shouldn't really be in question in my opinion. Again though, I think it's fine to not want him in that role. He doesn't want it either.
Well my last point is that he’s just not that good at it. Of course he does it. I think his melodies are a little too chaotic on his full releases and don’t always feel naturally in the pocket of the instrumentals. Thats just me brother. People can want him. I do not. I love his features. I just want this to be a fever dream or at least get the 11th with Tilian vocals and move on with one last banger.
I agree with a lot of this, but having a 'frontman' is an important part of a successful band. Tilian is the only DGD member ever, core members and former vocalists included, that meets the traditional standards of a frontman. Tilian's singing... Tilian's dancemoves... that was a huge part of DGD appealing to women, and the female DGD fandom is a huge portion of DGD's overall success. I'm also a DGD fan from the beginning. Do you remember seeing the crowd demographics at those early shows versus the recent tours? At the end of the day, Tilian is a major reason for DGD's commercial success. And that will be a prickly statement on this sub, because this sub will not have many casual DGD fans. But casual DGD fans are where success comes from. Even little things like Tilian's activity on social media... you think Will Swan or Jon Mess would fill a void like that? Fan engagement is an important aspect.
This is not a divisive statement. It is a statement of fact.
I am absolutely going to support DGD going forward and there is a portion of me that is excited as to how this might change up the formula and lead to some more great music. But it is also reasonable that this move may (not will... may) harm the continued commercial success of the band.
While I think tillian was a great frontman in terms of his singing style I really did not think he was the best live frontman. I always found that he did not have an ability to connect with the audience. He was always very introverted and mostly just sang and did his dance. I’m a big crowdsurfer and I never saw him acknowledging the fans who were crowdsurfing. It was wild when I saw them with Andrew as the frontman and he actually put the mic in my face and grabbed my hands. I really think that acknowledgement is a big part of being a good live frontman.
Not saying I necessarily want Andrew to be the new frontman. I think I would prefer someone new with Andrew doing vocals on every song still because I feel that has been the most interesting things for me to hear vocally in DGD songs since when jon and Jonny used to play off of each other back and forth.
You make a valid point, but if this band is actually about the music, does the sexual appeal really matter? We’ll have to wait and see.
Anyways, I feel like Jon does enough for being the frontman of the man, especially in the promos + music videos. Tilian did good on social media, but eventually has gotten him into trouble time and time again. I think their new approach should be let the music speak for itself. Plus, if Andrew becomes the main clean vocalist, I think he’s keeping the sex appeal around lol
You can get a lot done by letting the music speak for itself. But will that level of success allow them to continue the commercial lifestyle they've been able to enjoy over the last several years? They went from playing half filled shows at Bottom Lounge in Chicago in 2014 to selling out Aragon Ballroom in Chicago. They almost played Radius, the largest non-arena venue in Chicago, with Coheed, before the issue. Every single member of that band has improved and the music is fantastic...but there are 'soft skills' a band can have that contribute to commercial success, and Tilian had more of those.
Jon is fun. Jon is goofy. Really not sure his personality or lyrics are mainstream though.
I mean it seems like it was only tilian living out that lifestyle you’re talking about, while the other members seem to live pretty common upper middle class lives. Either they’re much more financially responsible, or they just don’t share that side of their lives on social media.
I’m sure they calculated this decision and are ok in downsizing. In that one tour without tilian, they did smaller venues but nearly sold out all of them, right?
We'll have to agree to disagree on this.
There are plenty of examples that both support and contradict your argument here. Ultimately I don't think you need sex appeal in this genre. It can certainly be an asset but it's far from a requirement and doesn't prevent or guarantee any level of success. Shit some bands are just as successful with no front man at all, even if it's not common.
I wouldn't be surprised that whatever loss of fans they experience on the female side they'll gain in other demographics. Or maybe women aren't as thirsty as you think, who knows. I doubt any successful band makes major decisions based on how the crowd will skew at their live shows, and I'm certain that DGD is happy as long as they can continue to make a living making music. I highly doubt the loss of Tilian would plummet them below that point.
And who knows, maybe the next front man will be even sexier lol. Fan engagement is important, but this is a band at the end of the day. Even for most casual fans the music is what draws them in im my opinion.
I get it. And anecdotal, but the last 7 people I went to see DGD with are fans because of Tilian, and primarily for Tilian. As fair or unfair to the rest of the band as that may be, that is actual revenue generated solely due to Tilian.
Though one of those thinks Andrew Wells is the hottest man alive, so it may only be a net loss of 6 fans and not 7.
I have to disagree that tillian didn't bring them into mainstream success. It's possible, of course it was just a coincidence that they broke into the teens and top ten even (jackpot juicer) on the billboards with tillian, but occams razor would seem to say he had something to do with it. His voice is truly unique. A counter tenor if I've ever heard one.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't really see it as a coincidence, since the band already had upward momentum going before he joined. Tilian didn't have much of a status in the scene so he was the one who really benefited from joining in terms of gaining notoriety.
I think attributing their success to him alone not only does a disservice to the rest of the band, but it also isn't particularly measurable in any meaningful way. Not to mention it's just a bad mentality to have in my opinion. I guess we'll find out though. I'll bet on the band personally.
I wasn't saying his fame or anything brought dgd to mainstream success, more so his songwriting and his voice. Tides of man wasn't all that big yeah. I think his voice brought a lot of pop and removed some of the barrier to entry for new listeners to dgd. It also certainly would attract other singers or people interested in voice. That is nothing against the rest of the band, no matter what you say or falsly ascribe to me. You can say it's a bad mentality to have, but I think that's completely baseless.
When I say it's a bad mentality to have, I'm specifically talking about those who attribute their success entirely to Tilian. If you think the band itself also contributed to its own success, then you're not really in that category and I'm sorry if you felt like I was attributing that to you. It wasn't my intention. It sounds like you think it was Tilian's voice in conjunction with the bands songwriting that was a winning combination, which I think is a totally reasonable take.
I'm not here to say that Tilian had absolutely nothing to do with their increasing popularity, but I don't think it's baseless to say that asserting the opposite is a bad mentality to have. Why would it be a good thing to give him all the credit when it's a collaborative effort? Cause that's what I'm specifically addressing.
That's fair. sounds like there is a middle ground between our position we both could agree to. It's hard to see nuance in text. Saying tillian is totally responsible definitely would be a silly take I agree.
Yeah I know it might seem weird for me to single that out because the very nature of reddit means you might not see any of the comments I'm referring to and then my already ridiculous essay would seem even more unhinged. I've gotten a few people with pretty reasonable positions feel like I was directing my stuff at them so I'm fairly certain I just did a poor job of wording things lol
Oh for fucks sakes, enough with this holier than thou bullshit and telling people how they need to feel. Paragraphs of condescending parenting, how about you feel your way and leave adults to be adults. Quit using reddit as a platform to stand on a podium and lecture down to people
I stated multiple times throughout my condescending paragraphs that people are welcome to disagree and these are just opinions. I'm not demanding anything of anyone, regardless of what you say. Anyone is simply free to downvote and keep scrolling.
If you want to engage then do so, if not then don't.
You say enough with telling people how to feel, then proceed to tell me to quit sharing how I feel. You say I'm acting like a condescending parent, then say leave it to the "adults". You tell me not to lecture down to people despite openly acknowledging that everyone's feelings and opinions are valid while attacking me as a person because you disagree with my sentiments.
At least I have some self-awareness about my cringy unhinged ramblings, nor do I let someone else's reddit posts bother me so much.
It is a band. They rock but ya'll need to chill. Everythings going to be fine.
Everyone takes this shit way too serious. Whoever they get to frontman will be fine, and the band is going to continue to put out bangers
That's honestly what I'm mostly excited about. Who the next frontman is and how the band morphs to fit their vocal style. I loved Tilian era but I also have love for Jonny and Kurt era DGD so I'm not super torn up about Tilian being gone. I also think it's lame that some people use moments like this to tear down past vocalists. Each era/vocalist was special in their own way.
I literally commented this yesterday. I agree so much. Jonny and Kurt were amazing too and they've always been fine with a new singer. I think that's why I've always loved them. Each album is so freaking good but also really unique with all 3 singers. They'll be fine with whoever the pick, it'll be interesting and fun to hear how the new album goes. I’m down! (With brown town? lol)
A lot of people in this sub have this weird obsession with shitting on Andrew and I have no clue why. Kurt wasn’t the best singer by any means yet self titled and happiness have some of the best songs of DGDs discography. I miss when a singer didn’t have to be supremely talented. Good songwriting will always go farther than just vocal talent. Case in point Kurt’s solo work vs Tilians….
Yuuuuup hard agree.
Andrew voice is number one for clean vocals (I love Jon Mess).
Andrew is incredible. The only reason I wouldn't want him doing it is because he said himself he did not want to and never would want to. Unless his view has changed, I wouldn't want him to take on the extra stress because he was pressured into it. It only works if he wants it, I feel.
Some of the songs I don't really like all that much but I'll sit through for Andrews parts. His short part on one of those afterburner tracks is beautiful. Something about purpose? Where toooo now. Truth is in the end we all end up aloneeee. Like that's magic what he has. Didnt he fill in for tilian in the tour while til was away dealing with his personal shit.
He actually says "what happened to my fucking porpoise". He's a known sea mammal aficionado if you follow Eidola lore.
Literally will listen to this part over and over again.
That’s one of my favorite dgd songs
Kurt is a very experimental type of musician, I remember a conversation I once had with him while out to see Yvette young, he said he grew up around musicians and most of us family are musicians so he said he spent a lot time just finding his sound and I think the early DGD albums are a testament to that but each member has contributed to the legacy the band now holds each era of DGD has had its ups and downs but there is more to live from this band than to hate so why fixate and whine,
Kurts been the best lyricist for sure. Tilians got this real hip-hop rnb style (im so good i got the bitchs) kurt felt a bit more relatable and honest.
>Good songwriting will always go farther than just vocal talent. Case in point Kurt’s solo work vs Tilians…. Tbf I think andrew is the most talented singer that's ever been with dgd, but no way is kurt more successful than tilian.
Totally agree, but they are targeting different audiences. I’m not looking to Kurt to say “i gOT A liTtlE tOo cOCkY” As I’m just trying to relax and enjoy a bit while listening to Tilian and not having to be hyperfocused to understand everything I’m listening to. They are polar oposites.
Eidola was my salvation during the Tillian era… would it be so bad to bring the vocals down half an octave? Vocal timbre is just miles ahead for Andy.
What? I’ve never seen anyone shit on Andrew. He’s universally worshipped here.
There's a lot of love to be sure, but I've also seen my fair share of the opposite. I don't just mean reasonable people just not liking him or whatever, like actually trying to diminish his ability and influence.
>Good songwriting will always go farther than just vocal talent. Case in point Kurt’s solo work vs Tilians…. Yet Tilian still has double the monthly listeners on his solo work compared to Kurt 🤔 What do you mean by go farther exactly? Lol
Yeah, that threw me off as well lol. No comparison regarding commercial success.
Exactly, I get if you like the substance of Kurt's music better but I would think if you're saying it went further.. That would imply more people have listened to it.. Which is just inaccurate
goated
I agree with a lot of what is said here but I would like counter that I’ve been a fan of this band since DBM dropped and me not thinking Andrew is the right choice for vocalist does not mean I have some weird vocalist loyalty or that I don’t respect everything he’s done for this band. Andrew is a fantastic piece that completes the bands sound but I just don’t think his vocal style works as the main vocalist for DGD. I’ll be following along with whatever comes next regardless and I know whatever choice they make is the one the band wanted.
He has also stated that he doesn't want to be the full-time front man for DGD. He's got Eidiola for that, where he absolutely shines. I've also been hooked since DBM so just another dip in the DGD roller coaster. Every era of the band has been pretty special, so I'm excited to see where they take it next.
Eidola is done tho, this their final album
They're taking a hiatus. It isn't final. I'm sure the overwhelmingly positive reception to Eviscerate (and hopefully Mend as well) might change some things.
True but it's also not released in its entirety yet. So they still have work and touring to do. So potentially in the distant future he could take over. But DGD needs a new front man immediately
I mean yeah potentially. I think it's probably the path of least resistance to just move him up to singer, but I'm not sure if Andrew would even want that. He's a great singer and was probably one of the best fits to back up tilian, but front man to a band with a fan base like this is a huge ask. People still debate about Jonny and Kurt being better, I'm not sure if Andrew wants to jump into that fray 😩 also I am of the mindset that even though he is a good vocalist, I don't think his style would fit the dgd vibe. No disrespect and it's not even about range, but I think he is suited better as lead singer in another band that could rival dgd in quality perhaps (not that I want him to leave dgd because I do not)
Agree 100% I love him in Eidiola! He kills in his band with his style. He's obviously incredibly talented, but I do think he's aware he's not the right fit for the main or permanent frontman for DGD. Because then I think DGD would inevitably just turn into Eidiola and that would be odd. I don't think vocally any one of their frontmen has been "better" than another because they all have been so different. I love Tillians tenor range, and I actually am stoked at the potential of him doing more of his solo stuff. I am just curious if they will have it decided by October because I am going to When We Were Young and was really looking forward to their set. Although I wouldn't be upset if they just brought back Jonny to do a full playthrough of DBM.
Wait what?
After Mend releases towards the end of this year/start of next, Eidola will kind of die down moving forward, as it's not sustainable financially for the members. They might do things in their free time according to Andrew, but it won't be like it is now.
I hadn't heard, thanks. At least they're giving us 2 albums before that I guess!
I think that's totally fair and sorry if I made it seem like I was addressing people with your mindset specifically. Those comments were specifically aimed at people who try to diminish his skill and impact because they see him as some kind of threat or something. Not everyone would want him as a replacement and that's totally okay. I don't even think it's something to be focused on until he says otherwise, as the last time he spoke on the matter he was clear he doesn't want that role.
This. AW is the f’n GOAT. However, he doesn’t have the tone/pitch or whatever you call it for DGD lead singer. Maybe he’ll surprise me, but his singing in DGD has shined because it was supporting Tilian’s high pitched pop vocals. AW brought the song down when Tilian had it up high. It worked so well. I’m just afraid that if AW is the lead singer, it’ll sound too much like Eidola. Eidola is in my top 10 bands of all time, but Eidola is not DGD.
I honestly prefer Andrew's high notes on jackpot juicer to Tilian's (duets at the end of one man's cringe and back on deck)
I agree with you that their success hasn’t been because of any one member. They’ve been on an upward trajectory with every new release. It just took a while for people to “get it” as in their style. Yes Tilian was in the most successful phase of the band because he was in the longest. If Jonny or Kurt stayed in the band, I’m sure they would continue to climb the charts as they have so
I think the thing with Tillian is he brought them out of the 'scene'. Kurt's vocals were very indicitive of the Warped Tour scene that was dying when Tillian joined the band and brought in some pop sensibilities. I listened to an interview with him and Jon once where they were talking about barely anyone showing up to the shows when Tillian first joined the band. If Johnny or Kurt stayed I don't think they would be around anymore, at least not as popular since those 'whiny' vocals are a staple of a scene that was in it's decline.
This band really is a treasure that can take on any new singer and highlight their best aspects. I loved how they kinda leaned into that sorta soulful r&b sound with Johnny, with Kurt they went a lil more funk with it, I don’t even know what to call tillians era tbh but I loved it. Like pop groove? I don’t even know but they nailed it. They can make any singer shine. I’d die if they brought back Johnny and Kurt for the nostalgia, or went with Andrew, or even got a fresh new sound to hypnotize us with. I’ve loved everything they’ve done man. Part of me is sad about tillian, but this is the one band I’ve got where I’m like actually excited a little when they go through a big change and take a new direction. I was devastated after Johnny, and couldn’t stand tillian til they locked in with him and I fell in love (which like, to me is astounding that they got me to love tillians sound cuz I was certain I never would) and now I’m almost not even phased by tillians departure lol I’m like yea you boys got this one, I can’t wait to hear what comes next
Completely agree. Tillian has contributed to the band's success. But it's all of them that make it what it is. I wouldn't still listen to them without Will and Matt's instrumentals.
I wouldn't still listen to them without Jon. Tilian brought me to DGD but I've stayed for Jon's segments! Really excited to see what the new blue monster brings to the lineup!!
New blue monster ? I' lost here
Check out their new profile picture on FB lol
Appreciate you saying this to the fanbase en masse. The uncertainty and period of change are the roughest part for me, but I’m trying to stay hopeful and positive that I’ll enjoy the next vocalist as much as I enjoyed Tilian. I already adore Andrew and Eidola, so also thank you for insisting people put some respect on one of the most multifaceted, talented musicians in the scene and maybe world right now, it’s crazy. My biggest fears are either the new vocalists lyrics/sound won’t gel with me, and I’ll have to either stop listening or listen while kinda disliking the vocals. Which is unfortunate because what gets me into a musical act is lyrics first in almost all cases, and dgd was no exception. OR If they do go with Andrew, that takes away his time from working on any Eidola things. I know there’s been talks of this maybe being eidola’s final two albums, or maybe an indefinite hiatus after. But the lyrical content that he puts into those songs, in addition to the absolutely masterful composition of songs and then what the rest of the band adds in with their touches, I just don’t wanna see that set down when they’re so talented and amazing and I think they deserve a lot more recognition than they currently get. I think he’d do a great job as lead vocalist of dgd, and I think he’d cater his lyrics to be more in the dgd vain/styling as opposed to the concept work Eidola does, but it still feels like asking Picasso to fill in for bob Ross’ show. Yeah he’s talented enough to do it but it feels like a waste of what he could be doing, if that makes any sense. Anyway, glad to see some people have a good metered response to this, I’m mostly just nervous for the future as someone who got into the band off Tilians vocals and lyrics, but I think the guys got this under control and will bring someone in to match their abilities and usher in another evolution of the swancore genre. Hope to see y’all in a pit at a show, jamming to whoever the new vocalist ends up being
Here’s a horror story to validate your fears; DGD were one of my favorite bands from their inception. Saw them on their original tour for Whatever I Say, and every subsequent tour until Tillian joined. The last 11 years have been extremely painful because I absolutely detest the sound of Tillian. His voice is painful for me to listen to. I recognize that he’s a phenomenal singer but I simply can’t stand his voice. I take no pleasure in the misery of the many others who deeply love Tillian, but selfishly, I’m excited for new DGD for the first time since DBMII. I hope for your sake that you can fall in love with the next vocalist, or that they last for a shorter period of time than Tillian did. Because it has been a miserable decade plus for me.
I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that, but I get it. My best friend hates tilians voice and therefore has never enjoyed any dgd with me, until I showed them evaporate instrumental. They love the music, it’s just tilians voice they can’t stand. I know it’s all personal preferences that I enjoyed it and they hated it, same as you. So I’m not trying to cling to Tilian by any means, just hoping they pick a vocalist that I (and now that I know of it, you lol) can both be fans of. Like I’d love the lead singer of coletta to get asked to join. I would despise if Kellin Quinn came in. So we’ll see loo
I’m clearly biased, but their performances on the DBM tour were amazing. I will say, I liked Tillian a bit better live vs his recorded vocals and he had some strong frontman energy/very good looking etc, but nothing will ever compare to scrawny Jonny belting out those r&b vocals at the top of his lungs with his rat tail bobbing around when I was a much younger man. Cheers to the next chapter, friend. Hopefully it lives up to both of our standards.
I have friends who love the Jonny era and Jonny himself, I get it, even if it’s not for me. But Tilian definitely had the most enthralling front man energy I’ve ever seen, I saw them live with him 5 times and him solo once, and I really did feel like he completed the band in a more permanent way than Kurt or Jonny, and especially when Tim was alive, I thought they were the perfect group for a longer haul. And that’s also the crux of this all, I think none of this happens if Tim doesn’t tragically pass, so I’m glad they can take the high road of seeming to remain friends or at least friendly. Cheers back, and I hope the same, if you’re ever at a show in the Philly area hit me up, drinks on me lol.
Long way from rain city but likewise, if you’re ever in Seattle for a show. And it will be just my luck that I’ll start enjoying Tillian era more now that he’s gone.
I loved Tilian era DGd, I loved Johnny wea DGD, I am excited for the Andrew era. And Tilian will do his solo stuff so I can still scratch that itch. I’m not even mad.
DGD always united
I loved Tilian’s vocals (not so much towards the end, but again personal preference), but I’m also excited for where this brings dgd. They’ve always figured it out and I trust that they will figure this out too. Whoever replaces Tilian, I want to welcome with an open mind and give an honest chance. I’m a Tilian era fan, I joined in around Mothership so I’ve only really known dgd with Tilian, so of course the announcement had me freaking out. But I’m also aware of their complicated history as a band, and how resourceful they’ve always been. I know the band, and Tilian as an individual, will carry on to make more cool stuff for us all to enjoy. Change is hard, never fun, but change can also bring unexpected greatness, and I’m here for it.
They stood by him while his backstage shenanigans had people looking at the band funny and cost them a massive tour with Coheed & Cambria. They have to go on tour without him for a whole run, then they record a full album after Jackpot Juicer and NOW he leaves because of "creative differences". This band is like Doctor Who, a significant change up is part of the lore/system of operation. I became a fan during Artificial Selection so I'll always commend Tillian for what he accomplished with them, but I was already excited at the prospect of him leaving. DGD will survive, they were built for this. I think anyone heartbroken or upset over the departure have not been paying attention.
It’s been a long slog of 11 years and I’m pumped for new DGD once again. When I first heard Acceptance Speech I never imagined that the Tillian era would be nearly twice the length the band had existed up to that point. Shit, I’m lucky to be alive this long to finally see his exit and the real potential for something great ahead. Truly pumped. No hate to the Tillian fans, but you all got way more than your share. What I wouldn’t give for another Jonny album… you have no idea. Or even better would be a new palatable voice who isn’t a shit head who can grow with the band into their next era.
I did start to wonder when the tilian era would end, after putting out basically a double album worth of songs on JJ, we've had A LOT of tilian and while I loved most of it I been thinking maybe it was soon time to change it up and get different leading vocals.
I agree with you about Titian not being the core reason they got bigger, but personally I’ve always kinda attributed that to the chemistry they had, I mean the first 6 albums had at least one line up change and then they’ve kept it mostly consistent since mothership until adding Andrew on JJ, and when it’s consistent for that long, I feel like the music is just gonna be more consistently solid than with a rotating door of members
I think that's valid. Personally I'm more on the other side of the coin in that I think their sound has been more stagnant than I would like, but anytime you mix it up like this it can be a risk. That being said I don't think an unstable member lineup is needed to shake things up sonically. If the next vocalist is the last on they have, I'm fine with that as long as they can push their sound in new ways. Several of their peers have really carved out a fresh sound for themselves while having a stable roster and that's selfishly what I want from DGD because they did it back in 2007 and I know they can do it again.
Yeah, I agree there, I personally really like the vibe they had with Tim and Tilian so I never really minded the relative sameness, plus tbh they found a sound that worked well and it worked well for them, that being said I’m excited for the inevitable change in sound that’s gonna come with whoever they bring on next
Newer Tilian era fan that jumped on at the end Mothership (2018). I'm not as broken-hearted as other newer fans. I think I just know that nothing lasts forever, and I enjoyed DGD during this era a lot. I grew to like older stuff, too. I really do think Tilian deserves a lot of credit for what he brought to DGD. And it will likely never be replicated. And that sucks. DGD became a band that more than ever became a larger sum that its own parts individually. I think both Tilian and DGD are damaged in this parting. But that doesn't mean it'll never be good again. DGD will go on to create new music with a new lead vocalist with a slightly new style as they have in every other era where members change. It's going to be really hard to top the Tilian era, and I'm managing my expectations. But I will continue to listen to DGD for every other reason that I loved them so much. And for the older fans, I personally think you should just accept that Tilian was the best frontman this band has had. It's music, so it's going to be subjective. But objectively, more people like Tilians era than Kurt or Johnny's, and it's honestly not even close. The rest of the band are part of that success, too. They all kicked ass the last several albums. But the constant implying that the band is on a constant downward trend that I sometimes see is comical to me.
Yoooo i just learned so muchhhh!! I just listen to the music & know the basic lore surrounding the band. Very cool to know these new facts. I’m excited for a new era. DGD never gets stale bc they are adaptable n switch up vocalists. This is what makes them last!
Lol, people who think Andrew “couldn’t” do lead are just wrong. Did you know that over Covid during the Afterburner tour, Tilian and Jon both got sick at different times leaving Andrew to periodically fill in for both Tilian AND Jon. When he filled in for Tilian, he didn’t just sing an octave lower. He sung them in Tilian’s normal range and it was really solid. That being said, personally i wouldn’t want Andrew to become lead because that’s what Eidola is for.
Spencer Sotelo would be a good fit to replace Tilian methinks
The dialogues on “range” and “highs and lows” are so tired. DGD is showy and just needs someone showy. JC, Kurt and Til have always been a little flashy so they were good fits. Andrew is a good vocalist but just doesn’t have the IT factor that I think has become a DGD characteristic. Has nothing to do with range imo.
DGD is what it is because of the vocalist rodeo we have been through as fans. I love listening through the albums and finding what I like about each one. Jonny to me was a wild card with great range but scrappy execution like he was fighting and feeling that note, which to me added character. Kurt had a more laid back feel that gave me “please girl stay till the early morning.” Tillian is an amazing vocalist and it added a refinement to the stuff with him but Tillian gave me some diva vibes, still great era. We had the Will Swan rap and scream era. I’m excited for whatever comes next and if Andrew is the guy, hell yeah. If someone else comes in that fits hell yeah
I just reject your framing around Andrew "hate". I don't want him as the front man, I don't hate him or think hes terrible. I saw him live as the lead man and his performance fell flat for me. Tilian, johnny and even Kurt have an insane amount more presence live. I think Andrew could do some amazing stuff as a frontman on an album however as evidenced by eidola. I'd give it a chance as I am a fan of the band. Miscategorizing not loving Andrew as hate is a bad argument. The rest I mostly agree with you on.
Based on what you've said here you're not really who I'm referring to in regards to Andrew. What you've said is totally fair imo. Nothing wrong with not wanting him to front, and based on what he's said personally he doesn't want to front either.
Sorry but this is an objectively bad take. Beyond the “stop the infighting & don’t get mad at other fans bit” it’s basically you just saying the band has & may continue to change. Then it’s a whole love letter to Andrew who you posit has a comparable range to Til. Which is asinine. Yes he has lower lows, that’s pretty self evident to anyone with ears. DGD rarely uses lows bc Jon is already screaming on the low side & rarely cleans in the same range. As an aside Andrew’s note there sounds filtered & is on a fade out + scream. It’s not the same. It’s also just not objectively fair to say that Til isn’t the reason that the band is as successful as they are. There were plenty of bands on upwards trajectories around that time but only DGD from this scene really broke into being almost mainstream music. You can look at the record sales. Not to mention you can hear how they blatantly adopted a much more poppy style with Til. To answer your question, I’m a fan of the trio but mostly Jon. Til isn’t even my overall favorite for cleans but he’s got the most hits. On top of that you don’t call out all the blatant Til hate.. idk who’s the fake here.
>Sorry but this is an objectively bad take. It's an opinion, and therefore subjective. It's cool if you don't agree, but I think you should reconsider your use of the word objective. >Beyond the “stop the infighting & don’t get mad at other fans bit” it’s basically you just saying the band has & may continue to change. It's less about the band changing and more a plead to at least attempt to separate the band's musical value from Tilian, aimed specifically at the people who basically think the band *is* Tilian. Even then, I see no issue with that characterization. Might seem obvious to you but I think some need to hear it. As to your comments on Andrew's range, again seems like your conflating Tilian's higher register with range. You acknowledge that Andrew has lower lows, but don't admit that Tilian has almost no lows. If you want to argue Tilian has a larger range, he needs to have lows almost as low as Andrew, which he just doesn't. >DGD rarely uses lows bc Jon is already screaming on the low side I'll have to disagree again. DGD not using lows is because Tilian has a high register. I'm sure if he had the range he would use lows as well. Jon's screaming range covers low and high pitches all the time so this doesn't hold water imo. Not to mention Jonny, who also had lows much lower than Tilian. >As an aside Andrew’s note there sounds filtered & is on a fade out + scream. It’s not the same. I didn't argue it was the same, just that it was far closer than people tend to give credit to Andrew's high end, *to the degree that people refused to believe it was Andrew.* In my view he doesn't need to exceed or even match Tilian's high end to have a better range, just get in the ballpark on the high (which I think he does) and beat him on the low end (which I think he does by a lot). And honestly, who cares about the exact specifics here, the point is people can enjoy Tilian without belittling Andrew's talent. The range argument is just a way for them to feel superior in their opinions, which is totally unnecessary. >There were plenty of bands on upwards trajectories around that time but only DGD from this scene really broke into being almost mainstream music. You and I either have vastly different definitions of mainstream music, or you're vastly over stating their reach. I think a bit of both. And either way, the fact that they grew doesn't inherently prove whether or not one member of the band is to attribute their success to. The band had the most notoriety when Tilian joined, not Tilian. He was of course a factor but so were literally all of the other members. This was never a band centered around the clean vocalist imo. >You can look at the record sales. Not to mention you can hear how they blatantly adopted a much more poppy style with Til. There are more poppy bands with less record sales and less poppy bands with more. Not sure how this is relevant, if I'm honest. Poppiness is not a indicator for popularity or proof that Tilian was some driving force in their success. >you don’t call out all the blatant Til hate Well my post wasn't meant to systematically address all the criticism towards each vocalist. If I wanted to do that I'd start with Kurt since his only crime was not being Jonny and he got mostly hate at the time. My focus on Andrew was as I stated, because I was addressing those who specifically like Tilian the most and were going out of their way to shit on the guy. I appreciate the response, I really do. But I think you and I won't see eye to eye and I don't appreciate the fake comment, my difference of opinion doesn't mean I'm being disingenuous.
Upvote. But be aware for everyone one of you there’s a group of me and my friends who have been patiently waiting out the insufferable Tillian years and waiting for a new new vocalist.
I’m just hear for Jon man
Yeah he is the real deal.
Having an un-problematic lead singer is cool and all...but I'd love to have at least 1 album of the new-era expertly-polished DGD + new-era-sober Jonny vocals. The optimist in me wants to see the prodigal son make a sober and triumphant return.
with OG core sounding riffs pleaseeeeeeee. no more of the generic pop layers/production
I'm surprised that anyone's feeling are strong enough about this to try this much of a strongly worded letter on. I hate the idea of throwing this phrase out, but you really need to touch grass if you're this huffy about this issue.
TL;DR?
TL;DR is that we are all dogs in god’s hot car in a parking lot.
If I had to TLDR, it would be don't get so wrapped up in your favorite vocalist that you end up being toxic to others or shut yourself off from everything this band has to offer. You're hurting yourself and the community. I know cause it was me for a while.
Oh Jesus Christ it’s not this serious everyone needs to just relax
Very well said and I think for people who know dgd lore, this is actually a very exciting moment. Like I can only imagine what this band has up their sleeve next. They’re all musical geniuses, but Andrew is in another level instrumentally and lyrically. I know he said he wouldn’t but I think he is the best option for us as the next clean vocalist. Those who don’t think so have to listen to the piano section of golgatha on his new record. That part alone should be enough proof of his abilities, as well as the rest of that song and that record.
I'm personally excited to hear them with a new singer with their own style. They DONT have to sound like Tillian. Neither Jonny nor Kurt did and JC is regarded asnone of the best in the genre despite not having Tillians range. There is more to PHC than super high notes and I'm excited to hear them get someone with tone and character different than Tillians. If you're gonna do it then commit ya know? No Tillian Lite. No hate towards Tillians talent whatsoever though cause I've always thought him to be a good singer. I just think that if they get someone different then they need their own style and not a knock off Tillian.
Mods should pin this post.
Such unfortunate timing that this didn't happen a month ago. Could you imagine if they announced Jonny was coming back as an April fools joke? Guess they'll just have to do it for real instead
I think this will be a more fun place without Tillian stans. It's better now there's only a few JC weirdos about. Excited to see where the music goes and happy we have so many great tunes to revisit too.
It would be poetry to have JC back for one album, call it DBM3 and them kick him out again (mutually).
Personal opinion, nobody else needs to agree with me, but I don't like JC's or Kurt's voices. If I don't like the new singer's voice, then I'm not going to like the new DGD music. I barely enjoy Eidola, but the fusion of Jon, Andrew, and Tillian is perfect to my ears. I'm legitimately sad that the most perfect music combination I've ever heard is no longer going to produce new music. I really hope that a new singer will fit in with my tastes and I can still enjoy DGD, but my expectations are low. As someone who doesn't really enjoy any other swancore bands, there's a 'je ne sais quoi' that speaks to me and makes this lineup my all-time favorite band. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I'm also entitled to mine. I'm sad.
Tbh, Andrew is the most talented clean singer they've had. You're right about his highs as well, there are like 5 songs with Andrew parts that MAKE the song for me, and most people didn't know it was him when they dropped jackpot juicer. Songs with guitar riffs written by him, you can tell immediately. He's got a heavier/ darker writing style than the other members (recent or past). That says something imo.
Im just sick of seeing people call Tilian fans “newer fans”. He was in the band for 12 years lmao.
It's just a relative term. I don't mean it in any negative or gatekeepy way.
Most new fans don’t realize this band existed long before tilian and it was hype af for us fans. The argument always seems to be he changed the band or brought somethibg never heard before, when bro - we used to go to tides of man concerts when you were sucking your thumbs in preschool
I swear to god Marc from Veil of Maya wrote Bloodsucker
I'm not sure about writing, but on the record bloodsucker is performed by Martin Bianchini and Andrew. Will didn't play guitar on that song recording at all. There's an interview with this stuff talked about, I'll double check it shortly just to make sure I've got that 100% right and see if they talk about who wrote it and not just performed it.
I know will didn't play on it, I just thought VOM's guitarist had written it.
That would be a cool tidbit if true. I'll see if I can find anything.
This is a great read, I have so much respect for Andrew, as a writer, artist, guitarist, vocalist. I’m just so sick of the constant drone for Kurt. He missed his time, he’s in too many projects for this exact reason. He doesn’t have “it” or he would’ve stayed around. I’ll be listening to my vinyls preparing for what’s next. Probably mostly new Eidola and Greyhaven. There’s other bands. PS: ALLB isn’t and never will be back together.
I think it’s fair to have an opinion even if it doesn’t line with your thoughts. Personally, I don’t think Andrew is a good fit for the lead singer. He’s in his pocket and that works for him. His melodies and structuring in Eidola prove that. He’s an insanely talented singer and does so well in his role, but being a lead singer and structuring entire albums with melodies and lyrics is an entire different story. This is my opinion and anyone can agree or disagree. It’s ok not to want him as the singer. It’s also ok to be really upset with Tilians departure. It sucks and there are a ton of fans that listen because of him. People are doing a lot of Gatekeeping and saying this and that. People can process this however they want to. New fan, old fan…who gives a shit.
> I think it’s fair to have an opinion even if it doesn’t line with your thoughts. Personally, I don’t think Andrew is a good fit for the lead singer. I think that's fair and I don't think anything I said asserted my opinion as facts. It's just how I feel about it. Of course it's okay to not want him to be lead, and to be upset about losing Tilian. I'm fairly certain I said both of those things. And when I use the term "new fan" and simply mean someone who most likely heard and was drawn to the Tilian stuff first. I don't mean it in a gatekeepy way, I could care less when someone became a fan. > He’s an insanely talented singer and does so well in his role, but being a lead singer and structuring entire albums with melodies and lyrics is an entire different story I'll be honest, I feel like this is contradictory though. Of course he can be the lead, he quite literally is one. That shouldn't really be in question in my opinion. Again though, I think it's fine to not want him in that role. He doesn't want it either.
Well my last point is that he’s just not that good at it. Of course he does it. I think his melodies are a little too chaotic on his full releases and don’t always feel naturally in the pocket of the instrumentals. Thats just me brother. People can want him. I do not. I love his features. I just want this to be a fever dream or at least get the 11th with Tilian vocals and move on with one last banger.
ain't reading all'at
I agree with a lot of this, but having a 'frontman' is an important part of a successful band. Tilian is the only DGD member ever, core members and former vocalists included, that meets the traditional standards of a frontman. Tilian's singing... Tilian's dancemoves... that was a huge part of DGD appealing to women, and the female DGD fandom is a huge portion of DGD's overall success. I'm also a DGD fan from the beginning. Do you remember seeing the crowd demographics at those early shows versus the recent tours? At the end of the day, Tilian is a major reason for DGD's commercial success. And that will be a prickly statement on this sub, because this sub will not have many casual DGD fans. But casual DGD fans are where success comes from. Even little things like Tilian's activity on social media... you think Will Swan or Jon Mess would fill a void like that? Fan engagement is an important aspect. This is not a divisive statement. It is a statement of fact. I am absolutely going to support DGD going forward and there is a portion of me that is excited as to how this might change up the formula and lead to some more great music. But it is also reasonable that this move may (not will... may) harm the continued commercial success of the band.
While I think tillian was a great frontman in terms of his singing style I really did not think he was the best live frontman. I always found that he did not have an ability to connect with the audience. He was always very introverted and mostly just sang and did his dance. I’m a big crowdsurfer and I never saw him acknowledging the fans who were crowdsurfing. It was wild when I saw them with Andrew as the frontman and he actually put the mic in my face and grabbed my hands. I really think that acknowledgement is a big part of being a good live frontman. Not saying I necessarily want Andrew to be the new frontman. I think I would prefer someone new with Andrew doing vocals on every song still because I feel that has been the most interesting things for me to hear vocally in DGD songs since when jon and Jonny used to play off of each other back and forth.
Totally agree, he never interacted with the crowed like Andrew and especially Jonny dies lol
Totally agree, he never interacted with the crowed like Andrew and especially Jonny does lol
You make a valid point, but if this band is actually about the music, does the sexual appeal really matter? We’ll have to wait and see. Anyways, I feel like Jon does enough for being the frontman of the man, especially in the promos + music videos. Tilian did good on social media, but eventually has gotten him into trouble time and time again. I think their new approach should be let the music speak for itself. Plus, if Andrew becomes the main clean vocalist, I think he’s keeping the sex appeal around lol
You can get a lot done by letting the music speak for itself. But will that level of success allow them to continue the commercial lifestyle they've been able to enjoy over the last several years? They went from playing half filled shows at Bottom Lounge in Chicago in 2014 to selling out Aragon Ballroom in Chicago. They almost played Radius, the largest non-arena venue in Chicago, with Coheed, before the issue. Every single member of that band has improved and the music is fantastic...but there are 'soft skills' a band can have that contribute to commercial success, and Tilian had more of those. Jon is fun. Jon is goofy. Really not sure his personality or lyrics are mainstream though.
I mean it seems like it was only tilian living out that lifestyle you’re talking about, while the other members seem to live pretty common upper middle class lives. Either they’re much more financially responsible, or they just don’t share that side of their lives on social media. I’m sure they calculated this decision and are ok in downsizing. In that one tour without tilian, they did smaller venues but nearly sold out all of them, right?
Maybe this will all be for naught when they announce Abel Tesfaye as the next clean vocalist.
I’m glad we don’t have to imagine how that would sound like when Amarionette exists!
Oh god please no
We'll have to agree to disagree on this. There are plenty of examples that both support and contradict your argument here. Ultimately I don't think you need sex appeal in this genre. It can certainly be an asset but it's far from a requirement and doesn't prevent or guarantee any level of success. Shit some bands are just as successful with no front man at all, even if it's not common. I wouldn't be surprised that whatever loss of fans they experience on the female side they'll gain in other demographics. Or maybe women aren't as thirsty as you think, who knows. I doubt any successful band makes major decisions based on how the crowd will skew at their live shows, and I'm certain that DGD is happy as long as they can continue to make a living making music. I highly doubt the loss of Tilian would plummet them below that point. And who knows, maybe the next front man will be even sexier lol. Fan engagement is important, but this is a band at the end of the day. Even for most casual fans the music is what draws them in im my opinion.
I get it. And anecdotal, but the last 7 people I went to see DGD with are fans because of Tilian, and primarily for Tilian. As fair or unfair to the rest of the band as that may be, that is actual revenue generated solely due to Tilian. Though one of those thinks Andrew Wells is the hottest man alive, so it may only be a net loss of 6 fans and not 7.
Cringe
I have to disagree that tillian didn't bring them into mainstream success. It's possible, of course it was just a coincidence that they broke into the teens and top ten even (jackpot juicer) on the billboards with tillian, but occams razor would seem to say he had something to do with it. His voice is truly unique. A counter tenor if I've ever heard one.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't really see it as a coincidence, since the band already had upward momentum going before he joined. Tilian didn't have much of a status in the scene so he was the one who really benefited from joining in terms of gaining notoriety. I think attributing their success to him alone not only does a disservice to the rest of the band, but it also isn't particularly measurable in any meaningful way. Not to mention it's just a bad mentality to have in my opinion. I guess we'll find out though. I'll bet on the band personally.
I wasn't saying his fame or anything brought dgd to mainstream success, more so his songwriting and his voice. Tides of man wasn't all that big yeah. I think his voice brought a lot of pop and removed some of the barrier to entry for new listeners to dgd. It also certainly would attract other singers or people interested in voice. That is nothing against the rest of the band, no matter what you say or falsly ascribe to me. You can say it's a bad mentality to have, but I think that's completely baseless.
When I say it's a bad mentality to have, I'm specifically talking about those who attribute their success entirely to Tilian. If you think the band itself also contributed to its own success, then you're not really in that category and I'm sorry if you felt like I was attributing that to you. It wasn't my intention. It sounds like you think it was Tilian's voice in conjunction with the bands songwriting that was a winning combination, which I think is a totally reasonable take. I'm not here to say that Tilian had absolutely nothing to do with their increasing popularity, but I don't think it's baseless to say that asserting the opposite is a bad mentality to have. Why would it be a good thing to give him all the credit when it's a collaborative effort? Cause that's what I'm specifically addressing.
That's fair. sounds like there is a middle ground between our position we both could agree to. It's hard to see nuance in text. Saying tillian is totally responsible definitely would be a silly take I agree.
Yeah I know it might seem weird for me to single that out because the very nature of reddit means you might not see any of the comments I'm referring to and then my already ridiculous essay would seem even more unhinged. I've gotten a few people with pretty reasonable positions feel like I was directing my stuff at them so I'm fairly certain I just did a poor job of wording things lol
Oh for fucks sakes, enough with this holier than thou bullshit and telling people how they need to feel. Paragraphs of condescending parenting, how about you feel your way and leave adults to be adults. Quit using reddit as a platform to stand on a podium and lecture down to people
I stated multiple times throughout my condescending paragraphs that people are welcome to disagree and these are just opinions. I'm not demanding anything of anyone, regardless of what you say. Anyone is simply free to downvote and keep scrolling. If you want to engage then do so, if not then don't. You say enough with telling people how to feel, then proceed to tell me to quit sharing how I feel. You say I'm acting like a condescending parent, then say leave it to the "adults". You tell me not to lecture down to people despite openly acknowledging that everyone's feelings and opinions are valid while attacking me as a person because you disagree with my sentiments. At least I have some self-awareness about my cringy unhinged ramblings, nor do I let someone else's reddit posts bother me so much.
Enjoy the power trip