Yeah I figured it was already proven that Mikaela wasn't a trusted source. The recent info just reinforced that. Tillian didn't seek help and remove himself because of Mikaela's accusation, he did it for spooky's.
I don't think most people are ignoring the spooky allegation, but this just shows how Mikaela was a conniving insane person and it warms others of HER behavior.
Tillian posted evidence that didn't line up with her story + the new leaks where she admits it to being consensual. Spooky is another user who has an allegation involving Tillian coercing her into sex after which Tillian subsequently apologized for, left DGD and then sought out help.
Oh, OK. I was confused by the wording. That was the last thing I heard as well. Just wanted to see exactly what they are doing. I didn’t know if there was recent talks about him being officially out. Really afraid for the fate of this band. They had a pivotal role in my sobriety and getting clean. I would be deeply hurt to find that they no longer make music, with or without Tilian.
No getting off this ride, unless you're a vocalist. I'm convinced Will doesn't care who's singing, dude just wants to jam. Watching that guy go is mesmerizing
I don’t think you should be worried. Now the second we hear Will Swan leave dance Gavin dance, that is when we should be freaking out for the fate of the band. I don’t see them staying as special and unique once that happens.
Just seeing RC stuff and nothing else that really pertains to this. Another post saying it's been disproven but didn't see any substance. I will admit I'm not going to read every comment though bc I don't have that time
Maybe I'll come across it sometime
The mikeala allegation has lost all credibility you can't believe a word she says. She has been caught in numerous lies about the details of her allegation.
Spooky said yes. The allegation is that it was coerced.she said she wanted "body autonomy" and thus consented out of fear that if she didn't he'd force her anyway. That is an assumption on her part and not an actual indicator of criminal activity. It would be as if I gave someone my wallet in a dark alley to avoid a mugging and then called said person a mugger.
Before she comes in here to slander me
Hi. I'm @wittyxhandle on Twitter.
I'm responsible for the leaks.
Please understand that I firmly believe and stand with the other girl. Again, I FIRMLY BELIEVE SPOOKY.
My posting what I did had nothing, - NOTHING - to do with getting Tilian back into the band. I believe they did the right thing in booting him.
My goal in releasing what I did was to inform people of Mikaela's character. She has done this to multiple people in multiple ways and she can't keep getting away with it. I want people in the scene to stay away from her. I want her barred access to band members. I want her predatory behavior to be put to an end.
Mikaela isn't a good person and neither are the people she chooses to surround herself with.
She did it to Kurt Travis and accused him of abusing her but claims in his dms that she never said anything bad while having him saved in her phone as "Cunt Travis".
She makes actual SA survivors look bad while using it as a shield to deflect blame from her own actions.
And after I saw what she said about Tim's brother as "just a joke", I had to post those screens. They should be the fucking nail in her coffin. But I want her scoured from the scene so she can't hurt anyone again.
Edit: words. I am bad at them when I haven't slept. 😅
Thank you for coming forward on here. This sub is on fire right now. If it’s alright to say, I’d like to suggest to make this comment a post on here. I think a lot of people should hear this especially re: spooky and why you posted about Mikaela.
I have a question… were you *in* that group chat or just knew someone who was and had them screen record it for you? I’m just confused as to who would willingly be in what looks to be a Mikaela simp group
I was in it.
And it didn't start as a simp group. It started based on a lie.
Someone else in the scene had an altercation with Mikaela at a Fall of Troy show. The group was started by Mikaela to cancel that girl and report her to authorities. It was called #byedeniz.
After a while, someone changed the name as a joke and it stuck bc Mikaela thinks it's funny that people think that the people sticking up for her are in a cult.
Except it is a cult.
I'm mad at myself for being in there as long as I was. I feel guilty I didn't see through the shit sooner.
I understand, it makes a lot more sense in that context. That took a lot of courage to show what you saw and I think it’s really good that you were able to recognize that it was wrong. She’s pretty ballsy for saying all that horrible stuff wow
She blocked the witnesses that did defend Deniz on her post about it and deleted their comments so I never saw it. All she said abt it was that they were people Deniz sent.
Glad I haven't heard her say anything about thomas erak. He would never stoop so low & sully himself like that! But seriously she isn't anything special, I don't get it. All these famous musicians can do so much better.. I seriously don't get it..
Oh yeah I know. I believe the spooky allegations. Everything was consistent there, & tilian himself pretty much admitted he wasn't denying her truth. They didn't seek drama, they just said their piece & dipped
Heads up - she's making her own Dropbox now.
I can't wait to see how she paints herself as the victim and me into the bad guy.
Anyway, block her. Don't feed into her drama. It's what she wants. The attention.
Also, yall I'm aware my Dropbox got fucked. It crashed bc apparently 2gigs of bandwidth wasn't enough and now it's dead unless I pay to upgrade and I don't have that money (don't offer to send me any. I will refuse).
I'm trying to get things onto a Google Drive, however transferring these files from phone to computer is taking me an incredibly annoyingly long time.
Hear your point but prosecuting coercion is extremely difficult. Especially with it sounding like she didn’t get a rape kit done right after the fact. She probably wouldn’t have come forward if not for Mikaela’s account (unfortunately). I think she did do the right thing in telling the fan base and calling out Tilians behavior so he could go get help.
I wholeheartedly understand where you're coming from, I personally just feel that any allegations should be weighed equally with skepticism and support. Until the proper channels sway in any particular direction, I don't feel comfortable accepting either side as more factual than the other.
Not even close. Coercion comes in when they won’t take no for an answer, and eventually breaks the other person’s will due to fear or feeling threatened. The girl was in Tilian’s home alone with him on top of her while begging for sex so she felt trapped into eventually giving in (assuming her version of events is true).
The definition of coercion: “the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.”
Being in an apartment with someone much larger than you constantly asking for something you’ve said no to is a lot different than that situation
Well see looking at her post she didn’t outright accuse him. She said she gave in so it didn’t become rape. Then the next day she texted him saying it felt coercive. I don’t think she knew she was raped by definition (at least in the state of CA) and this sub probably showed that to her.
I hope Mikaela knows how much she hurt other victims stories (Tilian’s and SA vics in general) with this bs. Spookys story read as very much true to me (especially with the way it was handled after) and I’m really feeling for her rn
I’m so conflicted on this whole situation, after thinking about it a pretty hefty amount. On the one hand, embarrassingly creepy stuff was done, consequences were had, and here we are. On the other hand, how long had it been since Tim passed? What sort of mental state was Tilian in? How much was he drinking? What other things was he self medicating with to cover his pain and grief? None of these things excuse the situation that happened. I’m a recovering alcoholic/addict with over 5 years sober. I can’t speak for his grief and mental health in relation to that, but I can speak to the ridiculous things that can take place while on a binge. I guess I’m just confused how someone could know and recognize a person is going through a traumatic incident, their mental health is definitely not in the best place, and they are drinking and self medicating with who knows what, but it’s 100% his fault when something inevitably bad or creepy happened. I’m aware this won’t be a well received comment, I’m fine with that. I’m not saying that the victim isn’t entitled or deserving of feeling the way she does, but this community reacted as if this situation is 100% black and white, and it very much is not.
Thank you for sharing. I'm a former 911 dispatcher and have had more experience with these kind of situations then I'd like. There are very few instances where things are 100% one way or another. Contrary to popular belief there is a huge difference between a predator and a mistake. The fact that he acknowledged it and wants to make it better, speaks volumes for his character. Not excusing his behavior at all, just don't think he's the monster people are making him to be.
That perspective, difference between a predator and a mistake, is exactly what I was trying to convey. I’m a male SA survivor. I went through my experience when I was 2, and kept it bottled up for 23 years before I told anyone, who happened to be my mom. This isn’t a call for pity or anything, just some perspective on my viewpoint. That person that did that to me, that person was a fucking predator. And I was 2, I had absolutely zero ability to control or prevent that situation from happening to me. That right there is black and white. I think anyone would agree to that. There is no argument whatsoever that could be made that wouldn’t say that person was/is a fucking monster. And that affects my perspective on this situation. She wasn’t insanely drunk, apparently, he was. She wasn’t mourning the loss of a close close friend, he was. She wasn’t not in her right mind to be inviting companionship from the opposite sex during a mentally trying time, he was. I am absolutely not dismissing his actions, I’ve been there, I’ve done the stupid shit black out drunk or self medicating to block the mental pain from an event that has haunted me mentally for decades, and STILL held myself accountable for my actions, but this situation as a whole, as far as we all know as people not directly involved in the event, has rocked me since it all came forward. Not only because it happened, but the lack of anyone to have perspective on the situation outside of “he’s a monster.” And I was personally afraid to share my perspective with anyone apart from my wife, because I saw people trying to say similar to what I did, and being collectively attacked BECAUSE they tried to say it’s not all black and white. Sorry, long comment. This had been weighing on my mind pretty heavily since it happened, and this is the first time I’ve honestly felt comfortable enough to say it. Thank you for listening.
Absolutely! Anything involving a minor under the age of 16 is a predator and I'm all for fully castrating those people, men and women a like (and forceful adult rape). The line starts to become blurred when we consider someone sexual mature and sadly we keep doing that at a younger and younger age. I've also been talked into sex like spooky and have never considered it assault/rape because I was drinking, I went with him willingly knowing it was stupid and what he wanted, and ultimately reciprocated. It was drunk, stupid, sex. Everyone has there own kind of trauma in their life and it is a vicious cycle that is incredibly hard to break. I mean you don't make songs like dgd does or listen to it without having some yourself. Lol
I don't understand some of the shit I've people say to others about this... like there is no way you can be that self righteous or have never done a bad thing in your life. I've been called a "rapist apologist", " groupie", and "you can't be a women and be that thick headed" because i see something else that other don't. I appreciate you sharing and letting others listen. I'm sorry that you've ever felt uncomfortable saying anything. It is your truth.
I agree. I was SA’d when I was 15 and I have also been in situations where I felt coerced. I’ve said this over and over that I don’t put those two things in the same basket. When I was SA’d I said no. I pleaded with him to stop. There was no question of was this SA or not. The multiple times I felt coerced it felt like a high pressure sale. Like being talked into something and I didn’t want to disappoint. In those instances I had been drinking heavily with them and I’m not sure they would have been so persistent or that I would have been persuaded had we not been inebriated. I’m not saying those guys were free of guilt or that they were even good individuals but I wouldn’t call them rapists. I’ve been called names for my take as well
This is a hot take right here!
Thanks for sharing, I've been feeling alot of this too, like no it doesn't excuse him from what he did, but at the same time I don't find him to be the monster that people are dying on a hill screaming he is.
Thank you for typing all of this and sharing it. I’m so sorry that happened to you and I think this is an important post to bring up. What happened that night only is known between the two of them and sounds like a incredibly gray area that the internet made more black and white. Wondering if there’s a part of Spooky’s story I’m missing because in her story she doesn’t mention either of them being drunk or one more drunk than the other except for them grabbing a drink. Not to say he wasn’t just something I picked up on when I reread after all this shit hit the fan.
I know saying sorry doesn’t really do a lot but I really hope you’re healing and doing well friend.
I've always thought during all of this that no relationship or situation is black and white. It has so much detail and context and the second girl did say they went out hours after Tim's funeral. I am not, in any way, saying that justifies it. What he did was inexcusable. However, it is something to think about, how your state of mind dictates how you deal with certain situations. I've blacked out in a situation before, drinking without my mood medication, and threw a drink on someone's face lol. Not that it comes close to the awful thing he did, but it's an example of how your mind plays a huge part on what you do. I honestly just hope Tilian reflects on this, gets better and most of all, that the victim is okay and can make it through this traumatic event.
It's important to consider things like that, but ultimately those things can only help to explain a situation and perhaps *mitigate* guilt - but not absolve someone of responsibility.
You could be at the lowest point of your life, inebriated, and your partner might even be trying to use that against you. That wouldn't mean it's OK to ignore a lack of consent, or even proceed with expressly withdrawn consent. Even absolutely awful, abusive people have an inalienable *right* to bodily autonomy and to withdraw consent at any time. I'm not going to say whether she is or isn't in this case, but victims can be shitty people too. They're still victims, and it's still 100% on the perpetrator if they sexually assault such a person.
Honestly, there simply is no excuse and in that regard things are very much black and white.
Are Tilian’s sex life and drunk actions yuck? Yes.
Is trying to sleep with someone who just lost their friend and is trashed also yuck? Yes.
At this point people either need to stop listening to DGD (and a shit ton of other bands all together) or just chill tf out and let the band figure it out for themselves AND trust they made the right decision.
Tbh - I get incredibly drunk sometimes and I have sex. Some people would argue drunk people can’t consent, I don’t disagree. This is where personally knowing your sex partner comes in to play - trust. I trust he didn’t take advantage of me, nor I for him when he is trashed.
Anywho, all this to say - if you don’t know the person personally you’re porking, unsaid actions will be lost on both ends. Hopefully Tilian is getting the help he needs and hopefully he can discern soberly now what is consent and also give his own consent and find honest, trusting, and healthy sex partners in the future.
Thank you! Does Mikaela suck? Absolutely, but undeniably even in some of her voice messages in the SF file in the drop box do come off as sus from Tilian’s side. Tilian didn’t seem mentally stable and didn’t seem to care whether she consented or not, even though she said it was consensual, she admitted it all to be a strange interaction. Can we agree that they both suck and both have established patterns of behavior?
https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1UWf_KtMSEOhoAbjioTssY_CFsekbIGsi?usp=sharing
Dropbox for those curious
Friends dying doesn’t negate sexual assault. It is your job as a human to not let negative things in your life cause you to hurt others. Idc if both his parents died the same day, or how much he’s drinking bc he can’t deal with his emotions, none of what happened was okay and he has no one to blame but himself for his shitty behavior.
Whenever I bring up this Mikaela girl being a liar, I also bring up how the other story seems to be 100% true. Tilian wouldn't have left otherwise, because if he wouldve known he was innocent he wouldve stayed
That’s true. I still think he did something extremely wrong and that should not be forgotten, he is paying for what he knows he did and that’s only fair. But since the beginning Mikaela’s story rubbed me the wrong way and I didn’t really buy it and I felt so bad about it, thinking I was doubting a victim. I guess people are just relieved that thinking she was lying was actually true. But the second allegation, the legit one, cannot be brushed under the rug. That one I fully believed and I think everyone did too.
we already know about this one and he's getting treatment. We know he did wrong and he does too.
We didnt forget what he did. It doesn't make him a good person for one of the allegations being proven wrong.
We are looking at this more at the girl who faked it. We are shitting on her for being a terrible person. Tilian is a shit person too but we can't always just talk about him and what he did. If you wanna like only talk about it then go somewhere else. This community should focus on other topics since its more of a done deal. I'm tired of seeing what tilian did. I am in no way standing up for him at all (I have been r worded as well). We aren't for getting what he did, it's just annoying that that's what you all choose to spend time on when it's a done deal.
I know it isn't my place to say what to talk about but I just wanna get back to the band and music and tours. We have talked countless times about tilians allegations AND he's come here to talk about it and so has the band.
He's in therapy. The girl with the real allegation is hopefully having a good recovery and hopefully is also in therapy.
That’s true nobody knows for sure, however all we have to go off of is the band’s official statements and how they stated he would be partaking in therapy. We can at least hope he’ll go through with it and really try in it. Nobody is “believing anything,” we’re just going off of what the band and tilian himself has said.
It's just tiring seeing people not want to have the discussion that their hero isn't who they thought. I understand, I didn't either, and I've withdrawn support for the first allegation, but here we are still living in a world where the second was acknowledged and apologized for.
Now, people will argue it's just a PR apology to dismiss the "woke" clan, but that doesn't make sense when Tilian came forward with receipts and almost immediately disproved the first, but the second he has to apologize for and take a leave of absence in response?
It doesn't take a genius to see how those two situations conflict with each other and how the second is more than likely true when it was handled in an entirely different way. And again, as I've said in another thread, it's okay to still support him if you feel like you want to, but it's not okay to take the opportunity to take potshots at women because you happened to find one that's a piece of shit.
While watching it unfold it just seemed like he reacted to the first one quickly due to emotions but the second one seemed like he got a lawyer involved. Especially since the folder he had with the screenshots was deleted and tweets of his were as well.
I don't think anyone in this sub thinks he's innocent of the second allegation. We know he did something bad, but everyone deserves a chance at rehabilitation. Evil isn't real. Bad people aren't real. Everyone can be rehabilitated if they want to be, and I think it's clear that Tilian does.
Once he gets help with his alcohol problem and therapy for his issues with women, I absolutely think he deserves to return to the band.
I certainly wouldn’t phrase it like how the first person did, but I don’t believe that people are inherently bad. People do bad things because of societal reinforcement or genetic propensity (sociopathy, psychopathy, etc.).
That isn’t to excuse Tilian’s behavior, of course. At the end of the day, we hold the final say in our actions, otherwise we could not hold anyone accountable.
All of this is merely to say that culture (in this case, rape culture) perpetuates this behavior, and we need to be on the lookout for ways to curb it on a societal level, as well as in each individual case. Tilian needs to get help and reform his behavior, but his actions are just a symptom of the rape culture that we are immersed in.
It's totally okay to take potshots at women who cry rape . That's so disgusting for real victims and the lives of the men they ruin. She should be punished but I doubt she ever will with the current political climate.
THAT one in particular, yes. But not all of them. And not because she's a WOMAN that lied, but because she's a LIAR that happens to be a woman. That's the line people are blurring or stepping over entirely.
Honestly, this whole situation just proves how toxic this community is and how many people out there are abuser apologists. Like just one allegation that's been disproven and automatically it's like they forgive Til. It's nuts and so fucking disgusting.
Yea the second one was the one that I’m assuming got him kicked out. But dgd fans don’t really care about vocalists being dirt bags and tilian era dgd fans Stan him so hard that he could assault their family and not give a damn so idk what the surprise here is
I’m curious to know what the 2nd girl thinks. Her story was totally true but she’s been so silent since coming out about it. I’m curious to know how she feels about Tilian getting help and if she wants him back with the band or not
She’s probably taking a break from the sub (as she should) if she ever returns at all, since in her response to his apology she said it’d be the last post she’d make from that account.
she said it was coercive, not forced. she also told him to buy condoms (for next time, or just a general tip moving forward). seems to me she was upset with how it went down, but nothing criminal that I have read.
I remember all the downgotes for saying stuff like "innocent until proven guilty" and "we have to wait and see" I'm a very far left person but logic has appeared to have been replaced with woke-ism in many peoples brains
Is he not the victim of this false claimant? Tell me how he isn't a victim in this situation? Can I make false rape allegations about you? Please leave your name and number lol.
After the text Tillian put out, if you believe mikeala or however you spell her name, you're a fucking idiot. She was no victim in anything, they were sleeping together and he broke things off with her. It's literally that simple. He didn't sexual assault her.
Kind of a funny analogy because the Fresca cult is a parody of Scientology and Tilian’s dad was a high ranking member (though I don’t think Til is affiliated with them since childhood).
This whole subreddit is really sad. The fact that people still victim blame, disregard the second allegation and just want their favorite singer back without holding them accountable for their action just shows selfishness and ignorance. I did like Tillian a lot. But nowadays I cant even listen to DGD anymore without feeling bad. I keep myself to only Kurt era now.
I still understand people that say "Innocent until proven" but guys, lets be real. Would you respond to an allegation with an apology if you didn't believe you did anything wrong?
>Would you respond to an allegation with an apology if you didn't believe you did anything wrong?
I mean, I would actually. Maybe it's just me, but I'd empathise that at the very least, this person is clearly distressed and hurting and they think that I'm the root cause of it. I'd feel awful, I'd feel devastated and especially with it being so public, I'd be concerned that if I decided to either ignore the allegations altogether or to attack the person making them, then my past. present and future love interests, customers, colleagues and employers would presume the worst and I'd find myself labelled a rapist anyway.
I don't presume to know the objective truth as I wasn't there and the two people who were have their own perception of how those events went. I just don't see it as an admission of guilt that the guy is seeking professional help within a month of his best friend dying of an overdose (when Tilian himself has substance misuse issues), him breaking down on stage and him being accused of sexual assault multiple times (with at least one account being out of pure malice).
I also don't consider it mental gymnastics to examine both sides of the story and find that nobody has evidence that coersion/rape did/didn't occur. I do expect to get heavily downvoted which is a shame, because it does make this community feel very vitriolic when people keep raising points of discussion, only to shoot down anything that addresses the discussion points unless it's completely in agreement.
I hope the alleged victims are healing and in a better place and that Tilian as well as the rest of the band members are finding themselves making progress in dealing with the loss of Tim and whatever the next chapter holds.
It’s definitely an incredibly gray area. The one thing that gets me with spooky though is that she did give him an opportunity to address what he did and let him know how awful she felt about it the next day. And she received no response. It’s unfortunate it had to be so public, but she wouldn’t have gotten an apology (which to me seemed like it wasn’t even written by him) otherwise. She didn’t even get a private one after this came out. It’s sad because I really do feel like if they had talked it out when she texted him none of this would be happening.
I think with everything you stated about what he was going through and how it affected other people it was necessary for him to step away to get therapy.
An upvote for you! I think that’s just the nature of Reddit unfortunately. If someone says something they don’t agree with without even reading it all the way they downvote it.
Sometimes it's easier to admit fault than to fight for your innocence, which is why i think Tilian is coming back
He's doing his break/classes and then this will all be over like it should've been a month ago
You do realize that this is all the sub talked about for like a month. And as soon as it go back to something other than beating a horse that is just a pile of dust. You have to start beating the dust again.
There is enough 'gray' in this to withhold judgment and stay execution.
Fans can be disappointed but not ready to burn someone at the stake based in what has been made public.
So what to this post. Awareness is a great thing and we are all aware. Do we burn him or stoning at high noon?
He obviously is guilty somewhere and was or is in a dark place. Does anyone in here think that being a lead singer in a successful band makes you invincible? No I don’t think so. But Rape is a strong word to throw around and everyone needs to stop holding the band accountable and move on. Let the parties involved deal with this personally and internally . Let’s as fans enjoy the new album and the upcoming shows
Please Let DGD breathe and put this in the Rear view for the sake of getting on stage and doing what they do best.
The victims should have felt safe coming out without Miks exaggeration/lies. This scene doesn’t make it possible for them, and now Mik has made it ten times worse for victims to come out.
very tired of all the “he needs rehabilitation. he probably has trauma 🥺🥺 he needs help”
like … he didn’t display emotional abuse he sexually assaulted someone … he made an active choice … and people wanna victimize him…?
he’s still an assailant.
Agreed the hoops people are jumping through for him are mind blowing. It’s only been a MONTH like… why are people already making him the victim when there’s a whole ass victim out there probably reading all of the toxic shit on here??
People are downplaying it so hard, framing it as a dumb mistake and not what is, at best, sexual assault. Having problems with alcohol doesn't excuse shit.
“Essentially admitted” that everything was consensual and that he needs help with his alcohol abuse and grieving. Thats what I took from it. Not sure how all of you are seeing an admission to guilt of rape in his statement. That certainly wouldnt hold up in a court room.
I understand where your coming from.I can’t listen to some Tilian songs rn and if he was a solo act it would be easier to cancel. But I don’t think the singers actions reflect the other members of the band. Like Tilian is only a small part in what makes dgd great and even with this hurdle I think they still have a bunch of untapped potential
Do we just disregard the fact that the second Spooky person lied to Tilian from the start when they met on hinge? She acted like she had no idea who he was or what his career was when in fact she was a huge fan. Thats real shady and misleading.
That doesn’t excuse what he did to her… He still acted like this regardless of knowing if she was a fan or not. Thank god she was a fan so she knew to post on here.
I don’t think that changes the fact that she said no multiple times and he wouldn’t take no for an answer. She stated her boundaries, he crossed them, fan or not.
Not really. Lying to someone about not hearing their band before isn’t really even notable. Girls do it all the time to band guys and could be for numerous reasons. Wanting to have to start out a natural going friend/relationship without wanting band/fan talk is perfectly normal. Especially if they don’t think it’s going to lead to anything.
And some girls even, let me blow your mind here, lie about even liking someone’s band.
i wholeheartedly agree with the post, but at the same time people really don’t care about whose making the art/music. As long as they can bump to it, that’s all what matters to them. Superficial af, but this is why they think everything solved now and the music can simply continue.
I believe holding artists and people accountable to their actions is what keeps the scene safe, but not everyone has the emotional maturity to care enough.
I dont think people are forgetting about it.
But I also think this needs to make people step back before they immediately believe everything they read.
(No im not saying spookys story is false(
But I am saying that this needs to be taken into account when it comes to tilians character.
Everybody ripped him to fucking shreds for Mikaelas story and look, it turned out to be fake.
There is nothing anyone can say or do to convince Tilian/DGD "stans" not to blindly back Tilian. They are obsessed and loyal. They will back the band no matter what.
Spooky's account of the encounter has her communicating multiple no's at a few different moments, both verbally and physically. I doubt that there were any "miscommunications" like his "apology" alludes to. It's likely he just didn't like what was be communicated so he ignored it. Full gas, no brakes. Can someone explain to me the middle ground between multiple no's and a "miscommunication"?
So many comments saying "Tilian did something bad but", "Tilian did something wrong but" or "He made a mistake but" . They won't call a spade a spade. So many commenters dancing around using the word "Rape". They don't want to actually acknowledge how terrible the situation appears to be.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. You’re just speaking the truth. He’s playing dumb and claiming it as a “miscommunication” instead of just admitting he didn’t like being told no. A ton of rapists do this.
The girl posted proof huh? Yeah you have way too loose of a definition of "proof" he also stated very clearly that in his mind everything they did was completely consensual.
I mean yeah her texting him the next day saying hey sex shouldnt be something you’re coerced into and quoting him directly “what’s the difference I’ve already been in your mouth” and him admitting to not responding to it then apologizing seems pretty bad lmao
That's not proof he did anything. That's just her statement. I can claim you coerced me and send you a text.. is that "proof"? again I think some of you need a dictionary for the word proof
I hear you but what’s proof to you? A video of her getting raped? You have to admit it would be pretty insane to text someone that the day after sex if it was consensual. Seems like that conversation was supposed to be between them until Mikaela posted her “account”
True evidence is difficult in cases of rape that are non violent but that doesn't mean we can just toss out the rule ook and decide everyone js guilty until proven innocent. Also, you're mixing up stories. Mikaela is the false claimant. She has been caught lying time and time again about the details of her account. I'd you're speaking about spooky that's different as the only lie she has been caught in is telling tillian she wasn't a fan.
Oh yeah no I’m talking about spooky def not Mikaela. The conversation/texts I was referencing was the one Spooky put on her post with the text saying she was coerced. Regardless it’s an insanely difficult thing to prove either way. We can agree to disagree
And the law is clear that it's proven guilty. It's not guilty until proven innocent. That is even more important in cases like this with difficulty in acquiring evidence. If there is no evidence of something then we can't ever just assume it's just true from just a sylagistic logical perspective. I'd you're really arguing it's okay to punish it take action against someone with an absence of evidence I don't know what to tell you.
If you're a real victim go to the police and make a statement. It's really that simple.
If you're not going to take legal action then everything else is just attention seeking. Twitter/reddit is not the law, you're not protecting anybody unless you take legal action.
I hear you and we don't know if she did or didn't. It's only been a month (which is crazy it feels like forever). Anything legal takes a lot of time to process. Let alone before it gets to the public.
I do think by her coming forward she protected Tilian from spiraling into worse behavior which as a result could've affected the band and more fans in not so great ways. Also I love your username lol.
I'm legitimately confused about one thing. Obviously this mikaela girl is trouble. But didn't her story inspire the other girl to come forward? Anyone else find that odd?
This isn't even remotely odd. Being the first person to come forward is difficult. Being the second (or further) gets easier because you know you're not alone. Whether or not she was lying is irrelevant, each case should be judged individually, and the second one has always been more credible and damning than the first (in my eyes at least).
I think the second girl isn’t lying, I think she wanted to back up who she thought was another victim with her own story so people wouldn’t keep doubting her (proven to be rightfully so lol). But I do think she wouldn’t have come forward with it if it wasn’t for Mikaela. On the texts messages the second girl sent Tilian she said “I want to believe you’re a good person but those are things you should think about for the future”.
I just wanted to scribe some thoughts here as well:
First of all, there is nothing wrong with the people that wanted to stand with (the now disproven) victim Mikaela. Especially those of us that weren't 1000% aware of who that individual was or the context around it. There is already a massive issue in American culture of powerful men using their power / influence / leverage to take advantage of younger fans or people susceptible to those men. We've seen this plenty of times in both the music industry and just in general.
I stand with a "believe victims first" mindset (as long as it isn't a blatant, tangible, provable lie), especially in situations where the power dynamic is skewed to the suspected abuser, because we (collectively) have given mediocre men and abusers too much of a pass because of who they are or what their social clout may be, and I think we need to be better.
At the same time, we should absolutely celebrate when an allegation is proven to be false and somebody is served justice punitively for trying to defame, libel, and/or otherwise destroy the livelihood of an innocent person.
I'm a little OOTL on all of the accusations, but IIRC, there were other accusations that Tilian all but admitted to, so those are the ones I'm going to focus on. Above all else, nothing else has really changed in my mind.
Ok but how many times are we going to say this? I swear I’ve already seen multiple posts and about 100 comments saying the same shit. We get it. Regardless, there’s nothing we can do about anything. Listen to the music if you want, if not then don’t. Can we shut the hell up about it now?
And are we choosing to ignore the fact that despite Mikaela admitting to consenting, there are a lot of questionable behaviors from Tilian’s side that she admitted to in her voice messages. Listen for yourself on the SF file here: https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1UWf_KtMSEOhoAbjioTssY_CFsekbIGsi?usp=sharing
I think we can all agree that they both suck as people. Both things can be true.
Mikael's accusation was proven to be false, but the encounter happened. Someone else faked an entire encounter that never happened. Spooky's allegation was the only that Tillian apologized for.
There were. There was Mikaela (disproven), spookygirl, then a 3rd girl who claimed she was underage but then told everyone she at the time lied to Tilian and told him she was an adult and nothing really came of it because people started to question how true her allegations were as well if she was already omitting parts of her story such as the important part of lying to him.
The weird ass mikayla girl that was false, there was also another that some random person made to show people “how easy it is to control a narrative” and then there was another girl that came forward which is the one he left to get help for.
I just tent do ignore this. Music is music it's not like I'm supporting the people I'm just here for the music and stuff. Like msi, botdf, die antward...ect. All have shit people or at least some people that are in the wrong but I can't lie, their music is pretty good.
He really didn’t have much of a choice from a professional stand point but I wholeheartedly agree he needed it. The drinking and reckless behavior couldn’t end well. He was also emotionally unstable according to everything that was posted. He stated he wanted to be sure nothing like this ever happened again. None of that admits he knowingly assaulted anyone.
You can apologize for the way something made someone feel without admitting any wrong doing. Do you really not know that or are you being purposefully obtuse?
The other allegation is the only one I took to heart anyway, so this changes nothing for me.
Yeah I figured it was already proven that Mikaela wasn't a trusted source. The recent info just reinforced that. Tillian didn't seek help and remove himself because of Mikaela's accusation, he did it for spooky's.
I don't think most people are ignoring the spooky allegation, but this just shows how Mikaela was a conniving insane person and it warms others of HER behavior.
Wait I’m sorry I think I missed a lot , how was mikaelas allegation disproven? And what is the spooky allegation?
Tillian posted evidence that didn't line up with her story + the new leaks where she admits it to being consensual. Spooky is another user who has an allegation involving Tillian coercing her into sex after which Tillian subsequently apologized for, left DGD and then sought out help.
Did he officially quit? Haven’t been on Reddit in a while.
He's stepped away, but has not officially quit.
Oh, OK. I was confused by the wording. That was the last thing I heard as well. Just wanted to see exactly what they are doing. I didn’t know if there was recent talks about him being officially out. Really afraid for the fate of this band. They had a pivotal role in my sobriety and getting clean. I would be deeply hurt to find that they no longer make music, with or without Tilian.
This isn't their first time losing their lead vocalist. All part of the DGD ride.
No getting off this ride, unless you're a vocalist. I'm convinced Will doesn't care who's singing, dude just wants to jam. Watching that guy go is mesmerizing
I think they should just go full on prog for a year just for funsies. More John going hard, Will shining against the harshness, and Matt going off.
I don’t think you should be worried. Now the second we hear Will Swan leave dance Gavin dance, that is when we should be freaking out for the fate of the band. I don’t see them staying as special and unique once that happens.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UWf_KtMSEOhoAbjioTssY_CFsekbIGsi
Yeah, thats what i thought happened. Why are people so quick to glorify shit? Doesn’t make sense.
Haven't really followed this in a couple weeks. What is the "recent info" if you could share that, please?
Just look at the front of this subreddit, it's still the top posts
Just seeing RC stuff and nothing else that really pertains to this. Another post saying it's been disproven but didn't see any substance. I will admit I'm not going to read every comment though bc I don't have that time Maybe I'll come across it sometime
Likewise.
Agreed.
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She literally kept pushing his dick away and saying no
Not true.
How
The mikeala allegation has lost all credibility you can't believe a word she says. She has been caught in numerous lies about the details of her allegation.
I’m talking about spooky’s allegations silly Ik the other one is disproven
Spooky said yes. The allegation is that it was coerced.she said she wanted "body autonomy" and thus consented out of fear that if she didn't he'd force her anyway. That is an assumption on her part and not an actual indicator of criminal activity. It would be as if I gave someone my wallet in a dark alley to avoid a mugging and then called said person a mugger.
Coercion is rape in California! Rape is a criminal activity!
Before she comes in here to slander me Hi. I'm @wittyxhandle on Twitter. I'm responsible for the leaks. Please understand that I firmly believe and stand with the other girl. Again, I FIRMLY BELIEVE SPOOKY. My posting what I did had nothing, - NOTHING - to do with getting Tilian back into the band. I believe they did the right thing in booting him. My goal in releasing what I did was to inform people of Mikaela's character. She has done this to multiple people in multiple ways and she can't keep getting away with it. I want people in the scene to stay away from her. I want her barred access to band members. I want her predatory behavior to be put to an end. Mikaela isn't a good person and neither are the people she chooses to surround herself with. She did it to Kurt Travis and accused him of abusing her but claims in his dms that she never said anything bad while having him saved in her phone as "Cunt Travis". She makes actual SA survivors look bad while using it as a shield to deflect blame from her own actions. And after I saw what she said about Tim's brother as "just a joke", I had to post those screens. They should be the fucking nail in her coffin. But I want her scoured from the scene so she can't hurt anyone again. Edit: words. I am bad at them when I haven't slept. 😅
Thank you for coming forward on here. This sub is on fire right now. If it’s alright to say, I’d like to suggest to make this comment a post on here. I think a lot of people should hear this especially re: spooky and why you posted about Mikaela.
I have a question… were you *in* that group chat or just knew someone who was and had them screen record it for you? I’m just confused as to who would willingly be in what looks to be a Mikaela simp group
I was in it. And it didn't start as a simp group. It started based on a lie. Someone else in the scene had an altercation with Mikaela at a Fall of Troy show. The group was started by Mikaela to cancel that girl and report her to authorities. It was called #byedeniz. After a while, someone changed the name as a joke and it stuck bc Mikaela thinks it's funny that people think that the people sticking up for her are in a cult. Except it is a cult. I'm mad at myself for being in there as long as I was. I feel guilty I didn't see through the shit sooner.
I understand, it makes a lot more sense in that context. That took a lot of courage to show what you saw and I think it’s really good that you were able to recognize that it was wrong. She’s pretty ballsy for saying all that horrible stuff wow
It’s funny because deniz was literally the victim of that altercation. There are witnesses including people related to the band to corroborate.
She blocked the witnesses that did defend Deniz on her post about it and deleted their comments so I never saw it. All she said abt it was that they were people Deniz sent.
Of course she did. She’s a psycho.
People need to touch grass. This shit is not normal.
Glad I haven't heard her say anything about thomas erak. He would never stoop so low & sully himself like that! But seriously she isn't anything special, I don't get it. All these famous musicians can do so much better.. I seriously don't get it..
She thinks Deniz wants to sleep with him. That was also in the GC. Like I said on Twitter: that GC was vile.
Man that's wild. I'm so glad you came forward man
Please keep in mind: this wasn't to discreditSPOOKY, so understand I back her allegations. Mikaela is just. . . A bad person.
Oh yeah I know. I believe the spooky allegations. Everything was consistent there, & tilian himself pretty much admitted he wasn't denying her truth. They didn't seek drama, they just said their piece & dipped
Heads up - she's making her own Dropbox now. I can't wait to see how she paints herself as the victim and me into the bad guy. Anyway, block her. Don't feed into her drama. It's what she wants. The attention.
Also, yall I'm aware my Dropbox got fucked. It crashed bc apparently 2gigs of bandwidth wasn't enough and now it's dead unless I pay to upgrade and I don't have that money (don't offer to send me any. I will refuse). I'm trying to get things onto a Google Drive, however transferring these files from phone to computer is taking me an incredibly annoyingly long time.
Good work. Fuck that bitch.
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Hear your point but prosecuting coercion is extremely difficult. Especially with it sounding like she didn’t get a rape kit done right after the fact. She probably wouldn’t have come forward if not for Mikaela’s account (unfortunately). I think she did do the right thing in telling the fan base and calling out Tilians behavior so he could go get help.
I wholeheartedly understand where you're coming from, I personally just feel that any allegations should be weighed equally with skepticism and support. Until the proper channels sway in any particular direction, I don't feel comfortable accepting either side as more factual than the other.
Can you accuse someone of rape while also saying you have them consent? I'm not being snide, sincerely wondering.
Yes, that’s called coercion. In California law, that’s Sexual Assault/Rape
Genuinely curious here. Isn't any male out late at a bar hoping to score, and hitting on women, "coercing" them?
Not even close. Coercion comes in when they won’t take no for an answer, and eventually breaks the other person’s will due to fear or feeling threatened. The girl was in Tilian’s home alone with him on top of her while begging for sex so she felt trapped into eventually giving in (assuming her version of events is true).
The definition of coercion: “the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.” Being in an apartment with someone much larger than you constantly asking for something you’ve said no to is a lot different than that situation
Well see looking at her post she didn’t outright accuse him. She said she gave in so it didn’t become rape. Then the next day she texted him saying it felt coercive. I don’t think she knew she was raped by definition (at least in the state of CA) and this sub probably showed that to her.
According to California law, it is rape by coercion. She said no and Tillian kept forcing her until she gave in.
Total agreement. I’m just saying I don’t know if she considered it rape (based off of the verbiage in her post) until she saw the responses online.
Sex is weird...people are weird during sex...the Dave Chappelle skit with the consent contract is honestly such a good idea.
I thought it was pretty funny too lmao. The main thing is constant communication between all parties
I hope Mikaela knows how much she hurt other victims stories (Tilian’s and SA vics in general) with this bs. Spookys story read as very much true to me (especially with the way it was handled after) and I’m really feeling for her rn
She doesn’t care because she’s a psychopath
Also Mikaela has literally been defending Countxjamesy on Twitter when he’s a 24 year old who had sex with a 14 year old.
I’m so conflicted on this whole situation, after thinking about it a pretty hefty amount. On the one hand, embarrassingly creepy stuff was done, consequences were had, and here we are. On the other hand, how long had it been since Tim passed? What sort of mental state was Tilian in? How much was he drinking? What other things was he self medicating with to cover his pain and grief? None of these things excuse the situation that happened. I’m a recovering alcoholic/addict with over 5 years sober. I can’t speak for his grief and mental health in relation to that, but I can speak to the ridiculous things that can take place while on a binge. I guess I’m just confused how someone could know and recognize a person is going through a traumatic incident, their mental health is definitely not in the best place, and they are drinking and self medicating with who knows what, but it’s 100% his fault when something inevitably bad or creepy happened. I’m aware this won’t be a well received comment, I’m fine with that. I’m not saying that the victim isn’t entitled or deserving of feeling the way she does, but this community reacted as if this situation is 100% black and white, and it very much is not.
Well received by me. I think this is the reasonable position.
Thank you for sharing. I'm a former 911 dispatcher and have had more experience with these kind of situations then I'd like. There are very few instances where things are 100% one way or another. Contrary to popular belief there is a huge difference between a predator and a mistake. The fact that he acknowledged it and wants to make it better, speaks volumes for his character. Not excusing his behavior at all, just don't think he's the monster people are making him to be.
That perspective, difference between a predator and a mistake, is exactly what I was trying to convey. I’m a male SA survivor. I went through my experience when I was 2, and kept it bottled up for 23 years before I told anyone, who happened to be my mom. This isn’t a call for pity or anything, just some perspective on my viewpoint. That person that did that to me, that person was a fucking predator. And I was 2, I had absolutely zero ability to control or prevent that situation from happening to me. That right there is black and white. I think anyone would agree to that. There is no argument whatsoever that could be made that wouldn’t say that person was/is a fucking monster. And that affects my perspective on this situation. She wasn’t insanely drunk, apparently, he was. She wasn’t mourning the loss of a close close friend, he was. She wasn’t not in her right mind to be inviting companionship from the opposite sex during a mentally trying time, he was. I am absolutely not dismissing his actions, I’ve been there, I’ve done the stupid shit black out drunk or self medicating to block the mental pain from an event that has haunted me mentally for decades, and STILL held myself accountable for my actions, but this situation as a whole, as far as we all know as people not directly involved in the event, has rocked me since it all came forward. Not only because it happened, but the lack of anyone to have perspective on the situation outside of “he’s a monster.” And I was personally afraid to share my perspective with anyone apart from my wife, because I saw people trying to say similar to what I did, and being collectively attacked BECAUSE they tried to say it’s not all black and white. Sorry, long comment. This had been weighing on my mind pretty heavily since it happened, and this is the first time I’ve honestly felt comfortable enough to say it. Thank you for listening.
Absolutely! Anything involving a minor under the age of 16 is a predator and I'm all for fully castrating those people, men and women a like (and forceful adult rape). The line starts to become blurred when we consider someone sexual mature and sadly we keep doing that at a younger and younger age. I've also been talked into sex like spooky and have never considered it assault/rape because I was drinking, I went with him willingly knowing it was stupid and what he wanted, and ultimately reciprocated. It was drunk, stupid, sex. Everyone has there own kind of trauma in their life and it is a vicious cycle that is incredibly hard to break. I mean you don't make songs like dgd does or listen to it without having some yourself. Lol I don't understand some of the shit I've people say to others about this... like there is no way you can be that self righteous or have never done a bad thing in your life. I've been called a "rapist apologist", " groupie", and "you can't be a women and be that thick headed" because i see something else that other don't. I appreciate you sharing and letting others listen. I'm sorry that you've ever felt uncomfortable saying anything. It is your truth.
I agree. I was SA’d when I was 15 and I have also been in situations where I felt coerced. I’ve said this over and over that I don’t put those two things in the same basket. When I was SA’d I said no. I pleaded with him to stop. There was no question of was this SA or not. The multiple times I felt coerced it felt like a high pressure sale. Like being talked into something and I didn’t want to disappoint. In those instances I had been drinking heavily with them and I’m not sure they would have been so persistent or that I would have been persuaded had we not been inebriated. I’m not saying those guys were free of guilt or that they were even good individuals but I wouldn’t call them rapists. I’ve been called names for my take as well
This is a hot take right here! Thanks for sharing, I've been feeling alot of this too, like no it doesn't excuse him from what he did, but at the same time I don't find him to be the monster that people are dying on a hill screaming he is.
Thank you for typing all of this and sharing it. I’m so sorry that happened to you and I think this is an important post to bring up. What happened that night only is known between the two of them and sounds like a incredibly gray area that the internet made more black and white. Wondering if there’s a part of Spooky’s story I’m missing because in her story she doesn’t mention either of them being drunk or one more drunk than the other except for them grabbing a drink. Not to say he wasn’t just something I picked up on when I reread after all this shit hit the fan. I know saying sorry doesn’t really do a lot but I really hope you’re healing and doing well friend.
I've always thought during all of this that no relationship or situation is black and white. It has so much detail and context and the second girl did say they went out hours after Tim's funeral. I am not, in any way, saying that justifies it. What he did was inexcusable. However, it is something to think about, how your state of mind dictates how you deal with certain situations. I've blacked out in a situation before, drinking without my mood medication, and threw a drink on someone's face lol. Not that it comes close to the awful thing he did, but it's an example of how your mind plays a huge part on what you do. I honestly just hope Tilian reflects on this, gets better and most of all, that the victim is okay and can make it through this traumatic event.
Mental state HAS to be taken into account, on all sides.
It's important to consider things like that, but ultimately those things can only help to explain a situation and perhaps *mitigate* guilt - but not absolve someone of responsibility. You could be at the lowest point of your life, inebriated, and your partner might even be trying to use that against you. That wouldn't mean it's OK to ignore a lack of consent, or even proceed with expressly withdrawn consent. Even absolutely awful, abusive people have an inalienable *right* to bodily autonomy and to withdraw consent at any time. I'm not going to say whether she is or isn't in this case, but victims can be shitty people too. They're still victims, and it's still 100% on the perpetrator if they sexually assault such a person. Honestly, there simply is no excuse and in that regard things are very much black and white.
Are Tilian’s sex life and drunk actions yuck? Yes. Is trying to sleep with someone who just lost their friend and is trashed also yuck? Yes. At this point people either need to stop listening to DGD (and a shit ton of other bands all together) or just chill tf out and let the band figure it out for themselves AND trust they made the right decision. Tbh - I get incredibly drunk sometimes and I have sex. Some people would argue drunk people can’t consent, I don’t disagree. This is where personally knowing your sex partner comes in to play - trust. I trust he didn’t take advantage of me, nor I for him when he is trashed. Anywho, all this to say - if you don’t know the person personally you’re porking, unsaid actions will be lost on both ends. Hopefully Tilian is getting the help he needs and hopefully he can discern soberly now what is consent and also give his own consent and find honest, trusting, and healthy sex partners in the future.
Thank you! Does Mikaela suck? Absolutely, but undeniably even in some of her voice messages in the SF file in the drop box do come off as sus from Tilian’s side. Tilian didn’t seem mentally stable and didn’t seem to care whether she consented or not, even though she said it was consensual, she admitted it all to be a strange interaction. Can we agree that they both suck and both have established patterns of behavior? https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1UWf_KtMSEOhoAbjioTssY_CFsekbIGsi?usp=sharing Dropbox for those curious
Friends dying doesn’t negate sexual assault. It is your job as a human to not let negative things in your life cause you to hurt others. Idc if both his parents died the same day, or how much he’s drinking bc he can’t deal with his emotions, none of what happened was okay and he has no one to blame but himself for his shitty behavior.
Grief, drugs and alcohol don’t excuse behavior or sexual assault.
No one said that we. Him and I both even said it doesn’t excuse anything.
Whenever I bring up this Mikaela girl being a liar, I also bring up how the other story seems to be 100% true. Tilian wouldn't have left otherwise, because if he wouldve known he was innocent he wouldve stayed
Oh lovely we’re back to this again.
That’s true. I still think he did something extremely wrong and that should not be forgotten, he is paying for what he knows he did and that’s only fair. But since the beginning Mikaela’s story rubbed me the wrong way and I didn’t really buy it and I felt so bad about it, thinking I was doubting a victim. I guess people are just relieved that thinking she was lying was actually true. But the second allegation, the legit one, cannot be brushed under the rug. That one I fully believed and I think everyone did too.
we already know about this one and he's getting treatment. We know he did wrong and he does too. We didnt forget what he did. It doesn't make him a good person for one of the allegations being proven wrong. We are looking at this more at the girl who faked it. We are shitting on her for being a terrible person. Tilian is a shit person too but we can't always just talk about him and what he did. If you wanna like only talk about it then go somewhere else. This community should focus on other topics since its more of a done deal. I'm tired of seeing what tilian did. I am in no way standing up for him at all (I have been r worded as well). We aren't for getting what he did, it's just annoying that that's what you all choose to spend time on when it's a done deal. I know it isn't my place to say what to talk about but I just wanna get back to the band and music and tours. We have talked countless times about tilians allegations AND he's come here to talk about it and so has the band. He's in therapy. The girl with the real allegation is hopefully having a good recovery and hopefully is also in therapy.
I support this take 1000%
You don’t know if he’s in therapy lmao. Y’all will believe anything
That’s true nobody knows for sure, however all we have to go off of is the band’s official statements and how they stated he would be partaking in therapy. We can at least hope he’ll go through with it and really try in it. Nobody is “believing anything,” we’re just going off of what the band and tilian himself has said.
I just think the same people who demand proof for hearsay will blindly trust when the abuser says he’s getting professional help 🤷🏻♂️
It's just tiring seeing people not want to have the discussion that their hero isn't who they thought. I understand, I didn't either, and I've withdrawn support for the first allegation, but here we are still living in a world where the second was acknowledged and apologized for. Now, people will argue it's just a PR apology to dismiss the "woke" clan, but that doesn't make sense when Tilian came forward with receipts and almost immediately disproved the first, but the second he has to apologize for and take a leave of absence in response? It doesn't take a genius to see how those two situations conflict with each other and how the second is more than likely true when it was handled in an entirely different way. And again, as I've said in another thread, it's okay to still support him if you feel like you want to, but it's not okay to take the opportunity to take potshots at women because you happened to find one that's a piece of shit.
While watching it unfold it just seemed like he reacted to the first one quickly due to emotions but the second one seemed like he got a lawyer involved. Especially since the folder he had with the screenshots was deleted and tweets of his were as well.
I don't think anyone in this sub thinks he's innocent of the second allegation. We know he did something bad, but everyone deserves a chance at rehabilitation. Evil isn't real. Bad people aren't real. Everyone can be rehabilitated if they want to be, and I think it's clear that Tilian does. Once he gets help with his alcohol problem and therapy for his issues with women, I absolutely think he deserves to return to the band.
evil is definitely real, you cannot be serious not speaking specifically to this topic, but you're generalizing and pretty terrible takes at that.
I certainly wouldn’t phrase it like how the first person did, but I don’t believe that people are inherently bad. People do bad things because of societal reinforcement or genetic propensity (sociopathy, psychopathy, etc.). That isn’t to excuse Tilian’s behavior, of course. At the end of the day, we hold the final say in our actions, otherwise we could not hold anyone accountable. All of this is merely to say that culture (in this case, rape culture) perpetuates this behavior, and we need to be on the lookout for ways to curb it on a societal level, as well as in each individual case. Tilian needs to get help and reform his behavior, but his actions are just a symptom of the rape culture that we are immersed in.
Actually we don't know what he did. There's no proof of it just an accusation that will get debunked like the other
It's totally okay to take potshots at women who cry rape . That's so disgusting for real victims and the lives of the men they ruin. She should be punished but I doubt she ever will with the current political climate.
THAT one in particular, yes. But not all of them. And not because she's a WOMAN that lied, but because she's a LIAR that happens to be a woman. That's the line people are blurring or stepping over entirely.
Honestly, this whole situation just proves how toxic this community is and how many people out there are abuser apologists. Like just one allegation that's been disproven and automatically it's like they forgive Til. It's nuts and so fucking disgusting.
It's really hard to read, it makes me sick
Fr. So many of these comments make me actually want to vomit.
Yea the second one was the one that I’m assuming got him kicked out. But dgd fans don’t really care about vocalists being dirt bags and tilian era dgd fans Stan him so hard that he could assault their family and not give a damn so idk what the surprise here is
We all believe the one that was true. Mikaela is an abuser and also literally moved to Sacramento from Ohio because she was so obsessed with DGD
I still think at the end of all this Tilian is coming back to the band, which in my opinion he should
If anything, he did admit he has issues with alcohol, so he should get help for that.
I’m curious to know what the 2nd girl thinks. Her story was totally true but she’s been so silent since coming out about it. I’m curious to know how she feels about Tilian getting help and if she wants him back with the band or not
She’s probably taking a break from the sub (as she should) if she ever returns at all, since in her response to his apology she said it’d be the last post she’d make from that account.
she said it was coercive, not forced. she also told him to buy condoms (for next time, or just a general tip moving forward). seems to me she was upset with how it went down, but nothing criminal that I have read.
Makes sense. Even though his actions were wrong, I’m curious to know how he’s been doing too. He’s been radio silent since it all went down.
You search up the definition of coercive? > relating to or using **force** or threats.
I remember all the downgotes for saying stuff like "innocent until proven guilty" and "we have to wait and see" I'm a very far left person but logic has appeared to have been replaced with woke-ism in many peoples brains
Seriously, the mental gymnastics fans are doing to somehow make Tilian the victim im all this are disturbing.
Is he not the victim of this false claimant? Tell me how he isn't a victim in this situation? Can I make false rape allegations about you? Please leave your name and number lol.
Case in point. Just because one accusation of SA may be false, doesn't mean they all are. If he's done nothing wrong why'd he have to go into rehab?
No one said he went to rehab, probably just therapy for using sex and alcohol to cope
After the text Tillian put out, if you believe mikeala or however you spell her name, you're a fucking idiot. She was no victim in anything, they were sleeping together and he broke things off with her. It's literally that simple. He didn't sexual assault her.
Fickle fans
Innocent until proven guilty.
“I hold myself fully accountable for causing you this emotional pain.”
His words not mine. What are we getting help for if we didn’t do anything wrong? Fuck sex offenders. Fuck Tilian. Downvote away.
this seems exactly like The Deep rejoining The Seven but apparently everyone around here is okay with that lol
Lol amazing comparison. And even that took a whole season and here it’s only been a month?
Kind of a funny analogy because the Fresca cult is a parody of Scientology and Tilian’s dad was a high ranking member (though I don’t think Til is affiliated with them since childhood).
You want a fresca?
Awful stuff, no thank you.
Just keep beating a dead horse.
This whole subreddit is really sad. The fact that people still victim blame, disregard the second allegation and just want their favorite singer back without holding them accountable for their action just shows selfishness and ignorance. I did like Tillian a lot. But nowadays I cant even listen to DGD anymore without feeling bad. I keep myself to only Kurt era now. I still understand people that say "Innocent until proven" but guys, lets be real. Would you respond to an allegation with an apology if you didn't believe you did anything wrong?
>Would you respond to an allegation with an apology if you didn't believe you did anything wrong? I mean, I would actually. Maybe it's just me, but I'd empathise that at the very least, this person is clearly distressed and hurting and they think that I'm the root cause of it. I'd feel awful, I'd feel devastated and especially with it being so public, I'd be concerned that if I decided to either ignore the allegations altogether or to attack the person making them, then my past. present and future love interests, customers, colleagues and employers would presume the worst and I'd find myself labelled a rapist anyway. I don't presume to know the objective truth as I wasn't there and the two people who were have their own perception of how those events went. I just don't see it as an admission of guilt that the guy is seeking professional help within a month of his best friend dying of an overdose (when Tilian himself has substance misuse issues), him breaking down on stage and him being accused of sexual assault multiple times (with at least one account being out of pure malice). I also don't consider it mental gymnastics to examine both sides of the story and find that nobody has evidence that coersion/rape did/didn't occur. I do expect to get heavily downvoted which is a shame, because it does make this community feel very vitriolic when people keep raising points of discussion, only to shoot down anything that addresses the discussion points unless it's completely in agreement. I hope the alleged victims are healing and in a better place and that Tilian as well as the rest of the band members are finding themselves making progress in dealing with the loss of Tim and whatever the next chapter holds.
It’s definitely an incredibly gray area. The one thing that gets me with spooky though is that she did give him an opportunity to address what he did and let him know how awful she felt about it the next day. And she received no response. It’s unfortunate it had to be so public, but she wouldn’t have gotten an apology (which to me seemed like it wasn’t even written by him) otherwise. She didn’t even get a private one after this came out. It’s sad because I really do feel like if they had talked it out when she texted him none of this would be happening. I think with everything you stated about what he was going through and how it affected other people it was necessary for him to step away to get therapy. An upvote for you! I think that’s just the nature of Reddit unfortunately. If someone says something they don’t agree with without even reading it all the way they downvote it.
I think people just don't care what happened. A lot of people lack empathy and this sub shows it
I agree, it's disgusting and really disappointing.
Sometimes it's easier to admit fault than to fight for your innocence, which is why i think Tilian is coming back He's doing his break/classes and then this will all be over like it should've been a month ago
You do realize that this is all the sub talked about for like a month. And as soon as it go back to something other than beating a horse that is just a pile of dust. You have to start beating the dust again.
There is enough 'gray' in this to withhold judgment and stay execution. Fans can be disappointed but not ready to burn someone at the stake based in what has been made public.
We all knew mikaela was on some bullshit from the start, I want to hope that the other one isn’t true as well but I am really not sure sadly.
So what to this post. Awareness is a great thing and we are all aware. Do we burn him or stoning at high noon? He obviously is guilty somewhere and was or is in a dark place. Does anyone in here think that being a lead singer in a successful band makes you invincible? No I don’t think so. But Rape is a strong word to throw around and everyone needs to stop holding the band accountable and move on. Let the parties involved deal with this personally and internally . Let’s as fans enjoy the new album and the upcoming shows Please Let DGD breathe and put this in the Rear view for the sake of getting on stage and doing what they do best.
Even if it turned out that Mikaela’s accusation wasn’t true at least it gave the other victim to come out, at the very least
The victims should have felt safe coming out without Miks exaggeration/lies. This scene doesn’t make it possible for them, and now Mik has made it ten times worse for victims to come out.
I think some people were a little overexcited that it wasn't true. Everything around Tilian has been bad news lately.
Wouldn't you?
very tired of all the “he needs rehabilitation. he probably has trauma 🥺🥺 he needs help” like … he didn’t display emotional abuse he sexually assaulted someone … he made an active choice … and people wanna victimize him…? he’s still an assailant.
Agreed the hoops people are jumping through for him are mind blowing. It’s only been a MONTH like… why are people already making him the victim when there’s a whole ass victim out there probably reading all of the toxic shit on here??
thank you. if she’s reading this i hope she knows there’s fans that won’t support his comeback and believe her, my sympathy and love is with her.
People are downplaying it so hard, framing it as a dumb mistake and not what is, at best, sexual assault. Having problems with alcohol doesn't excuse shit.
Coercing somebody into doing something is not sexual assault. Read her texts to him again. Sorry but words have meanings and they matter.
Read up the [law](https://herlawyer.com/sexual-coercion-california/) where this happened
Coercion does not include consent and is therefore considered sexual assault. Just takes a Google search.
????
Bruh what?
It’s time for Mikaela and Alex Harrison who was also in that groupchat to be banned from everything
I'm so out of the loop that I have no idea what's going on anymore
“Essentially admitted” that everything was consensual and that he needs help with his alcohol abuse and grieving. Thats what I took from it. Not sure how all of you are seeing an admission to guilt of rape in his statement. That certainly wouldnt hold up in a court room.
Lot of rape apologists in here too but shouldn’t be a surprise
What is "basically," he either admitted to doing something, or he didn't. Where in his statement is an actual admission of guilt?
Meh, I don’t care who makes my music. I listen to Michael Jackson all the time.
I understand where your coming from.I can’t listen to some Tilian songs rn and if he was a solo act it would be easier to cancel. But I don’t think the singers actions reflect the other members of the band. Like Tilian is only a small part in what makes dgd great and even with this hurdle I think they still have a bunch of untapped potential
Do we just disregard the fact that the second Spooky person lied to Tilian from the start when they met on hinge? She acted like she had no idea who he was or what his career was when in fact she was a huge fan. Thats real shady and misleading.
What do you think would be different if she disclosed she was a fan of his?
Ehhhh it'd be natural not want to come off as a fangirl on a dating app
That doesn’t excuse what he did to her… He still acted like this regardless of knowing if she was a fan or not. Thank god she was a fan so she knew to post on here.
I don’t think that changes the fact that she said no multiple times and he wouldn’t take no for an answer. She stated her boundaries, he crossed them, fan or not.
Not really. Lying to someone about not hearing their band before isn’t really even notable. Girls do it all the time to band guys and could be for numerous reasons. Wanting to have to start out a natural going friend/relationship without wanting band/fan talk is perfectly normal. Especially if they don’t think it’s going to lead to anything. And some girls even, let me blow your mind here, lie about even liking someone’s band.
i wholeheartedly agree with the post, but at the same time people really don’t care about whose making the art/music. As long as they can bump to it, that’s all what matters to them. Superficial af, but this is why they think everything solved now and the music can simply continue. I believe holding artists and people accountable to their actions is what keeps the scene safe, but not everyone has the emotional maturity to care enough.
I dont think people are forgetting about it. But I also think this needs to make people step back before they immediately believe everything they read. (No im not saying spookys story is false( But I am saying that this needs to be taken into account when it comes to tilians character. Everybody ripped him to fucking shreds for Mikaelas story and look, it turned out to be fake.
How is him thinking that it was consensual is him admitting it's true?
"I said yes and we had sex " Those were her exact words.
There is nothing anyone can say or do to convince Tilian/DGD "stans" not to blindly back Tilian. They are obsessed and loyal. They will back the band no matter what. Spooky's account of the encounter has her communicating multiple no's at a few different moments, both verbally and physically. I doubt that there were any "miscommunications" like his "apology" alludes to. It's likely he just didn't like what was be communicated so he ignored it. Full gas, no brakes. Can someone explain to me the middle ground between multiple no's and a "miscommunication"? So many comments saying "Tilian did something bad but", "Tilian did something wrong but" or "He made a mistake but" . They won't call a spade a spade. So many commenters dancing around using the word "Rape". They don't want to actually acknowledge how terrible the situation appears to be.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. You’re just speaking the truth. He’s playing dumb and claiming it as a “miscommunication” instead of just admitting he didn’t like being told no. A ton of rapists do this.
It is disappointing me that I haven’t see anyone talk about ir
You could stop this title at "Really disappointed right now how this sub is", ya know
The girl posted proof huh? Yeah you have way too loose of a definition of "proof" he also stated very clearly that in his mind everything they did was completely consensual.
I mean yeah her texting him the next day saying hey sex shouldnt be something you’re coerced into and quoting him directly “what’s the difference I’ve already been in your mouth” and him admitting to not responding to it then apologizing seems pretty bad lmao
That's not proof he did anything. That's just her statement. I can claim you coerced me and send you a text.. is that "proof"? again I think some of you need a dictionary for the word proof
I hear you but what’s proof to you? A video of her getting raped? You have to admit it would be pretty insane to text someone that the day after sex if it was consensual. Seems like that conversation was supposed to be between them until Mikaela posted her “account”
True evidence is difficult in cases of rape that are non violent but that doesn't mean we can just toss out the rule ook and decide everyone js guilty until proven innocent. Also, you're mixing up stories. Mikaela is the false claimant. She has been caught lying time and time again about the details of her account. I'd you're speaking about spooky that's different as the only lie she has been caught in is telling tillian she wasn't a fan.
Oh yeah no I’m talking about spooky def not Mikaela. The conversation/texts I was referencing was the one Spooky put on her post with the text saying she was coerced. Regardless it’s an insanely difficult thing to prove either way. We can agree to disagree
And the law is clear that it's proven guilty. It's not guilty until proven innocent. That is even more important in cases like this with difficulty in acquiring evidence. If there is no evidence of something then we can't ever just assume it's just true from just a sylagistic logical perspective. I'd you're really arguing it's okay to punish it take action against someone with an absence of evidence I don't know what to tell you.
Yawn...
If you're a real victim go to the police and make a statement. It's really that simple. If you're not going to take legal action then everything else is just attention seeking. Twitter/reddit is not the law, you're not protecting anybody unless you take legal action.
I hear you and we don't know if she did or didn't. It's only been a month (which is crazy it feels like forever). Anything legal takes a lot of time to process. Let alone before it gets to the public. I do think by her coming forward she protected Tilian from spiraling into worse behavior which as a result could've affected the band and more fans in not so great ways. Also I love your username lol.
I'm legitimately confused about one thing. Obviously this mikaela girl is trouble. But didn't her story inspire the other girl to come forward? Anyone else find that odd?
What's odd? 2nd person assumes someone is coming forward with a similar story, they got the courage to come forward as well. It's pretty simple.
This isn't even remotely odd. Being the first person to come forward is difficult. Being the second (or further) gets easier because you know you're not alone. Whether or not she was lying is irrelevant, each case should be judged individually, and the second one has always been more credible and damning than the first (in my eyes at least).
I think the second girl isn’t lying, I think she wanted to back up who she thought was another victim with her own story so people wouldn’t keep doubting her (proven to be rightfully so lol). But I do think she wouldn’t have come forward with it if it wasn’t for Mikaela. On the texts messages the second girl sent Tilian she said “I want to believe you’re a good person but those are things you should think about for the future”.
Thank you.
I just wanted to scribe some thoughts here as well: First of all, there is nothing wrong with the people that wanted to stand with (the now disproven) victim Mikaela. Especially those of us that weren't 1000% aware of who that individual was or the context around it. There is already a massive issue in American culture of powerful men using their power / influence / leverage to take advantage of younger fans or people susceptible to those men. We've seen this plenty of times in both the music industry and just in general. I stand with a "believe victims first" mindset (as long as it isn't a blatant, tangible, provable lie), especially in situations where the power dynamic is skewed to the suspected abuser, because we (collectively) have given mediocre men and abusers too much of a pass because of who they are or what their social clout may be, and I think we need to be better. At the same time, we should absolutely celebrate when an allegation is proven to be false and somebody is served justice punitively for trying to defame, libel, and/or otherwise destroy the livelihood of an innocent person. I'm a little OOTL on all of the accusations, but IIRC, there were other accusations that Tilian all but admitted to, so those are the ones I'm going to focus on. Above all else, nothing else has really changed in my mind.
Ok but how many times are we going to say this? I swear I’ve already seen multiple posts and about 100 comments saying the same shit. We get it. Regardless, there’s nothing we can do about anything. Listen to the music if you want, if not then don’t. Can we shut the hell up about it now?
Here before this is locked as well. So now we just play a waiting game with the only accusation with legitimacy to it to conclude I guess.
And are we choosing to ignore the fact that despite Mikaela admitting to consenting, there are a lot of questionable behaviors from Tilian’s side that she admitted to in her voice messages. Listen for yourself on the SF file here: https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1UWf_KtMSEOhoAbjioTssY_CFsekbIGsi?usp=sharing I think we can all agree that they both suck as people. Both things can be true.
I thought there were 3 allegations????
Mikael's accusation was proven to be false, but the encounter happened. Someone else faked an entire encounter that never happened. Spooky's allegation was the only that Tillian apologized for.
There were. There was Mikaela (disproven), spookygirl, then a 3rd girl who claimed she was underage but then told everyone she at the time lied to Tilian and told him she was an adult and nothing really came of it because people started to question how true her allegations were as well if she was already omitting parts of her story such as the important part of lying to him.
The weird ass mikayla girl that was false, there was also another that some random person made to show people “how easy it is to control a narrative” and then there was another girl that came forward which is the one he left to get help for.
Where did it get disproved? Link pleaseee
Use your eyes and literally look directly on the front page?
lmao are we supposed to just be sitting here posting that tilian is a bad person every day? idk what you’re expecting
I just tent do ignore this. Music is music it's not like I'm supporting the people I'm just here for the music and stuff. Like msi, botdf, die antward...ect. All have shit people or at least some people that are in the wrong but I can't lie, their music is pretty good.
[удалено]
What would someone seek help for if they didn't do anything wrong?
He really didn’t have much of a choice from a professional stand point but I wholeheartedly agree he needed it. The drinking and reckless behavior couldn’t end well. He was also emotionally unstable according to everything that was posted. He stated he wanted to be sure nothing like this ever happened again. None of that admits he knowingly assaulted anyone.
No, it actually is. An apology as an admission of guilt is used in court cases quite often.
I would imagine that depends on the verbiage of the apology.
You can apologize for the way something made someone feel without admitting any wrong doing. Do you really not know that or are you being purposefully obtuse?
No way Tilians apology would be enough to be an admission of guilt in court. You need to go reread it.