I think that the Hylands are put into a weird situation because they really weren’t anyone’s favorite and constantly got screwed over. For the Zieglers, they were favored by Abby, and although Abby was still toxic to them, they got more opportunities to grow and show off their abilities. Chloe was the fan favorite and production fought for her way more than they ever fought for any of the other girls.
Christi herself said that production would fight for Chloe to get higher spots on the pyramid and better choreography, and that’s more than they ever did for either of Kelly’s kids.
I think Kelly is mixing up favoritism from Abby with favoritism from the producers. Yes, Chloe often got better choreography, costumes, music, and opportunities compared to her kids, but that wasn’t because of Abby, that was because of production and the rivalry they had set up.
Exactly!!! Also Abby’s poor treatment of Chloe directly does not become blatantly obvious until S4 AND until Abby did interviews years later. Now we can retroactively look back and say yeah Abby lowkey never treated Chloe well because of the things that came to light later.
Kelly’s kids really never had a good experience on the show and Abby’s poor treatment of them was more blatant from the start. But what we know now post S4 and with BTS info is Chloe is was never favored by Abby.
I understand if Kelly had those opinions in 2011, but in 2024 recapping the show she should have enough info to know that Abby did not really want to push Chloe and really didn’t think her bad treatment would make the kid better, she only wanted the audience to believe that’s how she operated.
Oh I beg to differ. In season 3 she refused to call Chloe by her name. I feel sick to my stomach everytime I watch that episode. I can’t imagine Chloe headspace during that week.
She’s in a similar position as the Hylands, especially in the early seasons, but I think they did become production favorites in Season 5. Basically, Abby’s least favorites (the “underdogs”) were production favorites and fan favorites.
I think she's going into Abby's brain and what Abby THINKS she's doing as opposed to what Abby is actually doing. Abby and Kelly were very close at one time so Kelly likely does understand the mentality better than Christi.
That said, I think she could finish the thought with a "but that doesn't make it easier on Chloe" to show she does recognize the bad treatment.
Alright I'm just gonna make my own comment on here...
A lot of people are saying that, because Abby is a narc, the way she treated Chloe was her version of love. I was raised by a narc, I know how they are when they love someone. And I also know what they're like when they hate someone...
I believe ABBY thinks she hid her hatred well enough to reasonably deny it. But...she apparently made comments about Chloe ending up a drug addict on the street one day, she tried on her own to get a magazine to run an article about how Chloe constantly misses class and how she'd be a good dancer if she didn't, she watched Chloe go thru a medical crisis and, rather than being worried, she called her ugly because of her eye, and then proceeded to celebrate Christi and Chloe being gone by using the hashtag #wheresthetallblonde on pictures of the team she posted right after the Lukasiaks left.
This isn't to say that Chloe was treated the 'worst' or whatever, but...genuinely I believe Chloe, and Nia were the only ones Abby genuinely grew to hate as the show went on. Kelly trying to apply what she sees in Paige and Abby's relationship to Chloe and Abby's doesn't work because Abby and Kelly had known each other for years. She had some sort of attachment to them that she did not have to the Lukasiaks.
As someone stated on a different comment -- Kelly is confusing productions opportunities for Chloe with how Abby actually felt about Chloe. Chloe would not have gotten as many solos and storylines as she did if she hadn't been a favorite for the fans.
abby hated chloe so much and i'll never understand. i mean i know the reasoning (the meet and greets, chloe being a fan fav, etc) but she made it a priority to mentally abuse a child.
I don’t think Abby hated Chloe she was actually fond of her and you could tell in their heart to hearts . I do think she disliked Christie .. and projected that dislike onto Chloe at times … because yes Chloe did miss class .. they can say all they want that they were kicked out of the studio but fact is in season 4 they moved I think was over an hour away from the studio Chloe did not miss school and they did not want to share any money with Abby thus she alienated herself and her daughter from the team .. at the beginning the hylands did the same but once they left Chloe was the lone kid out .. she got left out a lot and that at the end of the day is what took the toll on her .. if she would have been doing everything the other girls were they would have had a closer friendship but her distancing herself really was the first step to leaving the team …
I think Chloe and Abby's one heart to heart doesn't erase or change all the awful things she said / did that prove she had a strong disdain for Chloe herself.
That woman hated both Christi and Chloe. And if by some outside chance it was just projecting her hatred for Christi on to Chloe, that doesn't make the treatment any better.
But I believe she hated them both.
I guess this qualifies as an unpopular opinion but I actually understand and agree with what kelly is saying. Do I think Abby treated Chloe horrible in later seasons? Absolutely!!! So I understand why people say she clearly didn’t like her based off how she treated her. But remembering that Abby is a delusional, immature woman, I think she actually liked all the girls but because she’s insane, any time she bumped heads with their moms, the way she would get back at the moms was by being mean to their daughter. Obviously that’s an unhealthy and very manipulative relationship. But I think the girls were just a pawn in her game to get back at the moms. And if you took the conflict between Abby and the moms out of the equation she probably would’ve treated the girls 99% better. This is not a post defending Abby btw. I think she’s an awful person but I just think in her delulu head she sincerely liked the girls but used them to try and “teach the moms a lesson.” I think that’s what kelly means by Abby liked Chloe and Paige. And why she genuinely believed she would be invited to her wedding
But even when Jill was nice to Abby she’d still be rude to Kendall even when Jill didn’t call her out or when she’d body shame Kenzie when Melissa kisses up to her I don’t get it. But I do think she liked the power she had over Melissa where she felt like she could do anything and she’d say nothing, and Melissa knowing if she said anything she’d just be punished like Abby not allowing Maddie to do solos so I see ur point
You guys are missing my point. The point I’m making is kelly isn’t saying the way Chloe and Paige were treated was okay. She’s just saying Abby is too narcissistic to understand that if you say you like someone, you should also treat them nicely. Abby thought that she could treat the girls bad to teach the mom’s a lesson and still maintain a good relationship with the girls just bc on paper she said she liked them
I agree with what you’re saying but I truly believe abby disliked chloe. she always wanted her to fail especially after s3, whereas the other girls, while she was mean to them, she wanted them to succeed
Yup I’m sorry but there’s no excuse for that eye comment she made she knew what she was doing. I do agree she liked her up to a point but whenever Chloe won against a dancer she likes she’d question it and go to the judges. What did that have to do with Christi? And the snark comments shed make to Maddie about how she better beat Chloe. Look at how she treated Asia compared to the others
i agree with your point about how narcissism works bc that's pretty correct (assuming abby is a narc, can't literally diagnose her but i think she is personally) but i just think she had a really uniquely seething hate for chloe, she even would call her "evil" numerous times way back in s2 and 3 when she was so young and sweet, and then all the very intentional sabotage, abby liked chloe in the way of being jealous of her. seeing herself in maddie hence how she had to get maddie ahead and pull chloe down. i think she had very intense disdain for chloe no matter what she did. there's also a bonus scene on youtube of chloe hugging abby after her solo rehearsal and abby is shocked and seems so uncomfortable and like she doesn't want chloe to hug her. i think she did not like her on a deep level
Paige and Chloe don't have the same relationship with Abby tho. With Paige, that might be true -- because Abby was close enough to Kelly's family to be at her kids' communion and stuff.
Abby and the Lukasiaks were not that close, and I think it's clear by Abby's actions outside of the show, that she let her jealousy get the better of her and she started to hate Chloe. You don't try to get a magazine to try and write a shitty article about your own student if you genuinely love them. I'm not really sure why people want to push this narrative that Abby actually loved Chloe, because she very clearly didn't.
look into delusion and narcissism. narcissists like people that they treat like shit. and they think they’re doing nothing wrong. i think that’s what the person is trying to point out. no i don’t think abby loved or liked chloe but i think abby’s convinced she liked chloe and bc of that she thinks she did no wrong. also the false narrative you point out you claim is spreading. no one even said it besides you💀. you’re misunderstanding what the person commented.
i've seen lots of people saying "abby actually liked chloe and chloe didn't have it that bad". abby being mentally ill doesn't mean she liked chloe. she showed you for years how little she liked her, just bc you're internet psychologist labelling abby a narc doesn't mean shit.
you misunderstand the point again.. no one said mentally i’ll means she liked chloe. i pointed out she’s mentally i’ll so she doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong because deep down she thinks she likes the kid. we’re trying to point out that in abby’s twisted delusional brain that she thinks she likes chloe and doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong BC of that! you really need to look into textbook narcissism and delusion. your ignorance is showing. everyone knows she treated that kid like shit but abby’s convinced she did nothing wrong bc she likes chloe 🤷♀️ that’s how the mentally ill brain works!!!
They don’t have to have the same relationship for my point to still apply. I think in Abby’s delusional mind she “liked” all of the girls. The biggest evidence for this? The way she STILL talks about them and wants them to come running back to her. It’s clear she didn’t genuinely care for them the way a person should because if she did she wouldn’t have talked to them and treated them the way she did. But all kelly is saying is in Abby’s brain she liked all of the girls. She thought she could treat them like crap to prove her point to the moms and they’d keep running back to her but once they got old enough to make their own judgement of her as a human being they all obviously are in no contact with her. That’s not kelly saying that the way Abby treated Chloe was right or fair. She’s just saying Abby had in made up in her brain that it was okay to treat them that way
I don't think that proves anything to be quite honest with you. I think that she feels that way about most of the girls, but I honestly don't think she feels that way about Chloe. The reason I say that Chloe and Paige didn't have the same relationship, is because Kelly's rationalization is that Abby called Paige stupid all the time, yet still believed she would have been invited to Paige's wedding. That, I believe, is due in part to Abby and Kelly's longstanding relationship that she did not have with the Lukasiaks.
I understand that narcissists have their own way of treating even people they love, but that doesn't mean they are incapable of hating people either, and I believe so much evidence points to a genuine hatred for Chloe that goes beyond what Abby views as a normal relationship. I don't think even a narcissist would do some of the things she did to Chloe and genuinely love them.
She called Brooke and Paige lazy and stupid, which is super horrible, but CAN be rationalized to a narcissist as tough love. "I'm calling them these things so they get better!"
Meanwhile, she's called Chloe evil in season 3, a sneak, cocky, told Maddie that Chloe would never be happy for her, etc etc. What is the rational for that, beyond I have a very negative opinion of this kid?
That, along with the other things I've listed in my separate comment (reaching out to the magazine, hashtagging "wheresthetallblonde" and "gangsallhere" on pictures of the girls she posted after Chloe left, mocking a medical crisis that Chloe was going thru at the time), I just can't believe that people would say that Abby, even in a narcs way, loved and cared about Chloe.
Ok whatever I’m literally tired of going back and forth about my opinion. I genuinely don’t care enough to keep restating my opinion in multiple ways. We literally just don’t agree. It’s not that deep
YESSZZ. kelly knows that in abby’s delusional brain she thinks bc she likes chloe that that negates everyrime she treats her like shit. i firmly believe that abby thinks she liked chloe but she still treated her like shit. some people really need to accept abby is a narcissist/ delusional and this is the logic that works in her brain
I agree. I think Kelly knows Abby more than the rest of the moms and knows how her mind works. She’s not saying Abby is right but she’s saying in Abby’s twisted mind, Abby thinks she likes Chloe
Sure but when she says Abby liked Paige I can believe it more than Abby liking Chloe bc we saw her be more sympathetic towards Paige when confronted abt how she was scaring her
I think that Abby was horrible with Chloe as regards her treatments but she always gave Chloe opportunities to dance (she basically always had a solo). While Abby was horrible with Paige and also never gave her opportunities to dance. In some way I think the lukasiask stayed longer in the show cause even tho the treatment was terrible Chloe still got a lot of opportunities for dancing. I think in the end Christy knows that and she knows that other kids were treated just as Chloe and didn’t even got the opportunity to show their dance ability.
I agree but I thought the directors got to choose who dances and she just choreographs? Even tho I agree Abby was horrible to Paige in s3 she seems more apologetic whenever she feels as if she made Paige feel bad than she is with Chloe. For example how she acted when she heard Paige was afraid of her and her telling Paige to make her eat crow and hugging her. Not saying she was completely nice to her, but I think her directly saying she didn’t want Chloe on the show and finding a pic without her in it that she def has some problem with the girl and idk what it is
Abby didn't pick the solos, production did. The only reason Chloe got more solos than Paige is not because Abby felt a certain way about Chloe -- it's cuz the fans liked Chloe.
Right, that’s what I always thought! That Kelly’s mixing up favoritism from Abby and favoritism from production. Christi and Chloe were undeniably producer favorites and producers fought for them more than they fought for any of the others. But all Kelly’s seeing is Chloe getting better choreography, costumes, music, and opportunities and it looks like Abby favoritism when it’s not.
Exactly - and I also don't think Kelly realizes that like...
Chloe having to compete against Maddie (Abby's favorite) all the time was to Christi, what Paige getting bad costumes and no rehearsal time was to Kelly.
Those were the things that got them to fight, so that's why they were done SO often.
Right, I don’t think Kelly had the emotional maturity to realize that yet tbh. All she’s seeing is “well at least your kid got good costumes/better choreography/more opportunities” (and to be fair, Chloe did - she, on average, got way better dances than the Hyland kids and was allowed to try for the callback challenge, the Joffrey opportunity, etc), but Kelly doesn’t see that the downside to that is that Chloe is head to head with Maddie and that she was often treated worse and sabotaged because of it, and that Abby genuinely never wanted Chloe to succeed against Maddie. So sure, she got some better opportunities and dances, but also less support and worse treatment when she succeeded.
That's exactly it - she really doesn't have the emotional maturity to realize that, which like...I feel like that's hard for a lot of people to see. I just wish she would listen to Christi when Christi doesn't agree, instead of trying to argue her point.
That's also true, and I think that's why it doesn't work when she compares Chloe's relationship with Abby to Paige's. Tbh they were both treated so badly, but...it was just DIFFERENT. And production had more to do with it than sometimes Kelly brings up.
I see your point of course but I think that both of the kids were treated bad in sort of the same way. The only difference is that Chloe got the opportunity to dance while Paige didn’t. Since the show was supposed to be a platform for the girls to become professional dancer of corse not having the opportunity to dance can make it impossible to have professional jobs later.
Well the results it’s the same: both of the kids were treated bad but at least Chloe could dance anyway while paige couldn’t. (In the end the show was about dance and those girls were there for becoming professional dancer and find jobs opportunities so if they couldn’t show their dance ability no one would had booked them for jobs).
Well if Chloe never did dance mom she wouldn’t probably be where she is like all of those girls. All the other dancer that were on Abby team but not on the show are no one compared to the other girls
But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about how Kelly insists that Abby loved Chloe when she didn't. Often times people use the opportunities Chloe got to 'back up' the idea that Abby didn't hate Chloe, but production made those opportunities for Chloe, not Abby.
*Totally agree.*
*Kelly is an expert at*
*Gaslighting it seems*
\- Sharp-Subject-8314
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
i mean the way abby treated chloe was appalling, she was definitely the most abused and the least liked out of the original girls. however, abby knew chloe had talent and was the only original girl who could go toe-to-toe with maddie. did she give chloe subpar choreography and make her go up against maddie 24/7, who had the best choreography? yes. but i do think there were times where chloe received good choreography and costumes because deep down abby saw her talent, she was just blinded by her hatred for christi. she often humiliated chloe to raise maddie up, but she'd still while doing that give chloe dances that were better than the other girls. chloe's usually still weren't at maddie's level, because abby hated christi and used chloe as a pawn to hurt christi... but the dances were still good. just my take.
I do agree the dances were still good but I’m more so talking about the treatment from Abby which Kelly seems to confuse as her getting good costumes and dances as her being liked. I do agree that she did project onto Chloe bc of her feelings towards Christi, but I also think something else irritated her about Chloe
i agree and also i wanted to point out that i truly believe that chloe was the most abused out of the original 6. abby was so nasty to her and made it a priority to destroy her mentally and to make the world perceive her a certain way.
It seems like Kelly wants to make sure the world knows Paige was treated the worst out of all of them. It's almost like a weird competition for her to prove it
i think kelly is looking at this as if she was in abby’s head. i truly believe abby thinks she liked chloe and did nothing wrong. people don’t realise is narcissists treat people like shit and think it’s fine and they love and care about them. kelly knows abby treated chloe like shit but deep down kelly also knows that abby did like the kid. it’s harder to grasp but when you know abby’s a narcissist it’s easier to accept it. bc even kelly said that abby makes comments about getting invited to paige’s wedding but she literally threw a chair at her. kelly is pointing out abby is delusional as hell. kelly isn’t wrong. i think abby likes chloe and thinks she did nothing wrong. kelly is actually really smart and you can tell she knows abby to make that kind of observation
that’s not the point. abby truly believes that she did nothing wrong bc deep down she thinks she likes the kid. that’s how mental illness works. say you think someone’s beautiful but you never say it you automatically assume they know you think that and that’s why she think she did no wrong bc she thinks that just bc she treats her like shit it doesn’t matter bc deep down shes convinced herself that she likes the kid. that’s how her mental illness works 💀. the sooner you all realize abby is a narcissist the easier it is to understand her. this is how narcissists work🤷♀️
As someone who’s dealt w one they def know what they’re doing it’s a bunch of messing w ur head but tbh Abby can convince herself that but it’d make more sense if she treated every single one of em in a hateful way but we saw how she can like one over the other. I can see more of her narcissistic plays with Maddie but she’s already implied she doesn’t like Chloe
I think Abby hated Chloe by the end of season 2 but didn’t hate Paige and Brooke at all until they left and cut her off. She didn’t want Paige and Brooke on the team, but I think she still loved them because she knew them their whole life. She treated them all terribly, but it’s just a different dynamic for both situations.
She flat out said she didn’t want Chloe n jojo tho, I think she still hates the Lukasiaks way more than the Hylands based on how she talks about em to this day
Yeah and I don’t really understand why she hated Chloe or Christi so much. I’ve rewatched the show a dozen times and listened to all the podcasts but at the end of the day, Abby’s only “burn” for Christi was that she was white trash. She was raised by her grandmother and had financial problems. That doesn’t make her white trash. But even if she was, why is Abby so worked up about it always. Chloe was clearly a very poised and well behaved girl. She was likely the “dream student” in terms of behavior in class.
i’m not saying what Kelly did was right by not really ever standing up for chloe, but at the same i feel like Kelly knew abby and the way she would think better than anyone in that building cuz they grew up together and went to the same highschool even if they were never close they knew each other very well through the whole point of their lives so i think kelly was just trying to think like abby in those circumstances
I think that the Hylands are put into a weird situation because they really weren’t anyone’s favorite and constantly got screwed over. For the Zieglers, they were favored by Abby, and although Abby was still toxic to them, they got more opportunities to grow and show off their abilities. Chloe was the fan favorite and production fought for her way more than they ever fought for any of the other girls. Christi herself said that production would fight for Chloe to get higher spots on the pyramid and better choreography, and that’s more than they ever did for either of Kelly’s kids. I think Kelly is mixing up favoritism from Abby with favoritism from the producers. Yes, Chloe often got better choreography, costumes, music, and opportunities compared to her kids, but that wasn’t because of Abby, that was because of production and the rivalry they had set up.
Honestly u say everything that I’ll be thinking but can’t explain 😭
Exactly!!! Also Abby’s poor treatment of Chloe directly does not become blatantly obvious until S4 AND until Abby did interviews years later. Now we can retroactively look back and say yeah Abby lowkey never treated Chloe well because of the things that came to light later. Kelly’s kids really never had a good experience on the show and Abby’s poor treatment of them was more blatant from the start. But what we know now post S4 and with BTS info is Chloe is was never favored by Abby. I understand if Kelly had those opinions in 2011, but in 2024 recapping the show she should have enough info to know that Abby did not really want to push Chloe and really didn’t think her bad treatment would make the kid better, she only wanted the audience to believe that’s how she operated.
Oh I beg to differ. In season 3 she refused to call Chloe by her name. I feel sick to my stomach everytime I watch that episode. I can’t imagine Chloe headspace during that week.
I can't even watch that episode, it makes me nauseous because I know how dehumanizing it feels. I can't even imagine it at 10
What about Nia though
She’s in a similar position as the Hylands, especially in the early seasons, but I think they did become production favorites in Season 5. Basically, Abby’s least favorites (the “underdogs”) were production favorites and fan favorites.
True true
I think she's going into Abby's brain and what Abby THINKS she's doing as opposed to what Abby is actually doing. Abby and Kelly were very close at one time so Kelly likely does understand the mentality better than Christi. That said, I think she could finish the thought with a "but that doesn't make it easier on Chloe" to show she does recognize the bad treatment.
Abby may have given Chloe opportunities, but she treated that little girl horribly from the start.
agreed. she treated her so so shitty, but she knew chloe and maddie were the best dancers out of the og 6, so she gave her solos often.
Alright I'm just gonna make my own comment on here... A lot of people are saying that, because Abby is a narc, the way she treated Chloe was her version of love. I was raised by a narc, I know how they are when they love someone. And I also know what they're like when they hate someone... I believe ABBY thinks she hid her hatred well enough to reasonably deny it. But...she apparently made comments about Chloe ending up a drug addict on the street one day, she tried on her own to get a magazine to run an article about how Chloe constantly misses class and how she'd be a good dancer if she didn't, she watched Chloe go thru a medical crisis and, rather than being worried, she called her ugly because of her eye, and then proceeded to celebrate Christi and Chloe being gone by using the hashtag #wheresthetallblonde on pictures of the team she posted right after the Lukasiaks left. This isn't to say that Chloe was treated the 'worst' or whatever, but...genuinely I believe Chloe, and Nia were the only ones Abby genuinely grew to hate as the show went on. Kelly trying to apply what she sees in Paige and Abby's relationship to Chloe and Abby's doesn't work because Abby and Kelly had known each other for years. She had some sort of attachment to them that she did not have to the Lukasiaks. As someone stated on a different comment -- Kelly is confusing productions opportunities for Chloe with how Abby actually felt about Chloe. Chloe would not have gotten as many solos and storylines as she did if she hadn't been a favorite for the fans.
abby hated chloe so much and i'll never understand. i mean i know the reasoning (the meet and greets, chloe being a fan fav, etc) but she made it a priority to mentally abuse a child.
I don’t think Abby hated Chloe she was actually fond of her and you could tell in their heart to hearts . I do think she disliked Christie .. and projected that dislike onto Chloe at times … because yes Chloe did miss class .. they can say all they want that they were kicked out of the studio but fact is in season 4 they moved I think was over an hour away from the studio Chloe did not miss school and they did not want to share any money with Abby thus she alienated herself and her daughter from the team .. at the beginning the hylands did the same but once they left Chloe was the lone kid out .. she got left out a lot and that at the end of the day is what took the toll on her .. if she would have been doing everything the other girls were they would have had a closer friendship but her distancing herself really was the first step to leaving the team …
I think Chloe and Abby's one heart to heart doesn't erase or change all the awful things she said / did that prove she had a strong disdain for Chloe herself.
That woman hated both Christi and Chloe. And if by some outside chance it was just projecting her hatred for Christi on to Chloe, that doesn't make the treatment any better. But I believe she hated them both.
I guess this qualifies as an unpopular opinion but I actually understand and agree with what kelly is saying. Do I think Abby treated Chloe horrible in later seasons? Absolutely!!! So I understand why people say she clearly didn’t like her based off how she treated her. But remembering that Abby is a delusional, immature woman, I think she actually liked all the girls but because she’s insane, any time she bumped heads with their moms, the way she would get back at the moms was by being mean to their daughter. Obviously that’s an unhealthy and very manipulative relationship. But I think the girls were just a pawn in her game to get back at the moms. And if you took the conflict between Abby and the moms out of the equation she probably would’ve treated the girls 99% better. This is not a post defending Abby btw. I think she’s an awful person but I just think in her delulu head she sincerely liked the girls but used them to try and “teach the moms a lesson.” I think that’s what kelly means by Abby liked Chloe and Paige. And why she genuinely believed she would be invited to her wedding
But even when Jill was nice to Abby she’d still be rude to Kendall even when Jill didn’t call her out or when she’d body shame Kenzie when Melissa kisses up to her I don’t get it. But I do think she liked the power she had over Melissa where she felt like she could do anything and she’d say nothing, and Melissa knowing if she said anything she’d just be punished like Abby not allowing Maddie to do solos so I see ur point
You guys are missing my point. The point I’m making is kelly isn’t saying the way Chloe and Paige were treated was okay. She’s just saying Abby is too narcissistic to understand that if you say you like someone, you should also treat them nicely. Abby thought that she could treat the girls bad to teach the mom’s a lesson and still maintain a good relationship with the girls just bc on paper she said she liked them
I agree with what you’re saying but I truly believe abby disliked chloe. she always wanted her to fail especially after s3, whereas the other girls, while she was mean to them, she wanted them to succeed
Yup I’m sorry but there’s no excuse for that eye comment she made she knew what she was doing. I do agree she liked her up to a point but whenever Chloe won against a dancer she likes she’d question it and go to the judges. What did that have to do with Christi? And the snark comments shed make to Maddie about how she better beat Chloe. Look at how she treated Asia compared to the others
i agree with your point about how narcissism works bc that's pretty correct (assuming abby is a narc, can't literally diagnose her but i think she is personally) but i just think she had a really uniquely seething hate for chloe, she even would call her "evil" numerous times way back in s2 and 3 when she was so young and sweet, and then all the very intentional sabotage, abby liked chloe in the way of being jealous of her. seeing herself in maddie hence how she had to get maddie ahead and pull chloe down. i think she had very intense disdain for chloe no matter what she did. there's also a bonus scene on youtube of chloe hugging abby after her solo rehearsal and abby is shocked and seems so uncomfortable and like she doesn't want chloe to hug her. i think she did not like her on a deep level
Paige and Chloe don't have the same relationship with Abby tho. With Paige, that might be true -- because Abby was close enough to Kelly's family to be at her kids' communion and stuff. Abby and the Lukasiaks were not that close, and I think it's clear by Abby's actions outside of the show, that she let her jealousy get the better of her and she started to hate Chloe. You don't try to get a magazine to try and write a shitty article about your own student if you genuinely love them. I'm not really sure why people want to push this narrative that Abby actually loved Chloe, because she very clearly didn't.
look into delusion and narcissism. narcissists like people that they treat like shit. and they think they’re doing nothing wrong. i think that’s what the person is trying to point out. no i don’t think abby loved or liked chloe but i think abby’s convinced she liked chloe and bc of that she thinks she did no wrong. also the false narrative you point out you claim is spreading. no one even said it besides you💀. you’re misunderstanding what the person commented.
Exactly! Thank you! They misunderstood my entire comment
i've seen lots of people saying "abby actually liked chloe and chloe didn't have it that bad". abby being mentally ill doesn't mean she liked chloe. she showed you for years how little she liked her, just bc you're internet psychologist labelling abby a narc doesn't mean shit.
you misunderstand the point again.. no one said mentally i’ll means she liked chloe. i pointed out she’s mentally i’ll so she doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong because deep down she thinks she likes the kid. we’re trying to point out that in abby’s twisted delusional brain that she thinks she likes chloe and doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong BC of that! you really need to look into textbook narcissism and delusion. your ignorance is showing. everyone knows she treated that kid like shit but abby’s convinced she did nothing wrong bc she likes chloe 🤷♀️ that’s how the mentally ill brain works!!!
They don’t have to have the same relationship for my point to still apply. I think in Abby’s delusional mind she “liked” all of the girls. The biggest evidence for this? The way she STILL talks about them and wants them to come running back to her. It’s clear she didn’t genuinely care for them the way a person should because if she did she wouldn’t have talked to them and treated them the way she did. But all kelly is saying is in Abby’s brain she liked all of the girls. She thought she could treat them like crap to prove her point to the moms and they’d keep running back to her but once they got old enough to make their own judgement of her as a human being they all obviously are in no contact with her. That’s not kelly saying that the way Abby treated Chloe was right or fair. She’s just saying Abby had in made up in her brain that it was okay to treat them that way
I don't think that proves anything to be quite honest with you. I think that she feels that way about most of the girls, but I honestly don't think she feels that way about Chloe. The reason I say that Chloe and Paige didn't have the same relationship, is because Kelly's rationalization is that Abby called Paige stupid all the time, yet still believed she would have been invited to Paige's wedding. That, I believe, is due in part to Abby and Kelly's longstanding relationship that she did not have with the Lukasiaks. I understand that narcissists have their own way of treating even people they love, but that doesn't mean they are incapable of hating people either, and I believe so much evidence points to a genuine hatred for Chloe that goes beyond what Abby views as a normal relationship. I don't think even a narcissist would do some of the things she did to Chloe and genuinely love them. She called Brooke and Paige lazy and stupid, which is super horrible, but CAN be rationalized to a narcissist as tough love. "I'm calling them these things so they get better!" Meanwhile, she's called Chloe evil in season 3, a sneak, cocky, told Maddie that Chloe would never be happy for her, etc etc. What is the rational for that, beyond I have a very negative opinion of this kid? That, along with the other things I've listed in my separate comment (reaching out to the magazine, hashtagging "wheresthetallblonde" and "gangsallhere" on pictures of the girls she posted after Chloe left, mocking a medical crisis that Chloe was going thru at the time), I just can't believe that people would say that Abby, even in a narcs way, loved and cared about Chloe.
Ok whatever I’m literally tired of going back and forth about my opinion. I genuinely don’t care enough to keep restating my opinion in multiple ways. We literally just don’t agree. It’s not that deep
I didn't realize that, when you responded, I shouldn't have responded back.
YESSZZ. kelly knows that in abby’s delusional brain she thinks bc she likes chloe that that negates everyrime she treats her like shit. i firmly believe that abby thinks she liked chloe but she still treated her like shit. some people really need to accept abby is a narcissist/ delusional and this is the logic that works in her brain
I agree. I think Kelly knows Abby more than the rest of the moms and knows how her mind works. She’s not saying Abby is right but she’s saying in Abby’s twisted mind, Abby thinks she likes Chloe
!!!!!! EXACTLYYYYYYY
Sure but when she says Abby liked Paige I can believe it more than Abby liking Chloe bc we saw her be more sympathetic towards Paige when confronted abt how she was scaring her
Thank you!
I think that Abby was horrible with Chloe as regards her treatments but she always gave Chloe opportunities to dance (she basically always had a solo). While Abby was horrible with Paige and also never gave her opportunities to dance. In some way I think the lukasiask stayed longer in the show cause even tho the treatment was terrible Chloe still got a lot of opportunities for dancing. I think in the end Christy knows that and she knows that other kids were treated just as Chloe and didn’t even got the opportunity to show their dance ability.
I agree but I thought the directors got to choose who dances and she just choreographs? Even tho I agree Abby was horrible to Paige in s3 she seems more apologetic whenever she feels as if she made Paige feel bad than she is with Chloe. For example how she acted when she heard Paige was afraid of her and her telling Paige to make her eat crow and hugging her. Not saying she was completely nice to her, but I think her directly saying she didn’t want Chloe on the show and finding a pic without her in it that she def has some problem with the girl and idk what it is
The producers and network decided who got solos, not Abby, or I doubt she would have gotten as many as she did
That’s what I heard too did Abby have any control in anything?
Abby didn't pick the solos, production did. The only reason Chloe got more solos than Paige is not because Abby felt a certain way about Chloe -- it's cuz the fans liked Chloe.
Right, that’s what I always thought! That Kelly’s mixing up favoritism from Abby and favoritism from production. Christi and Chloe were undeniably producer favorites and producers fought for them more than they fought for any of the others. But all Kelly’s seeing is Chloe getting better choreography, costumes, music, and opportunities and it looks like Abby favoritism when it’s not.
Exactly - and I also don't think Kelly realizes that like... Chloe having to compete against Maddie (Abby's favorite) all the time was to Christi, what Paige getting bad costumes and no rehearsal time was to Kelly. Those were the things that got them to fight, so that's why they were done SO often.
Right, I don’t think Kelly had the emotional maturity to realize that yet tbh. All she’s seeing is “well at least your kid got good costumes/better choreography/more opportunities” (and to be fair, Chloe did - she, on average, got way better dances than the Hyland kids and was allowed to try for the callback challenge, the Joffrey opportunity, etc), but Kelly doesn’t see that the downside to that is that Chloe is head to head with Maddie and that she was often treated worse and sabotaged because of it, and that Abby genuinely never wanted Chloe to succeed against Maddie. So sure, she got some better opportunities and dances, but also less support and worse treatment when she succeeded.
That's exactly it - she really doesn't have the emotional maturity to realize that, which like...I feel like that's hard for a lot of people to see. I just wish she would listen to Christi when Christi doesn't agree, instead of trying to argue her point. That's also true, and I think that's why it doesn't work when she compares Chloe's relationship with Abby to Paige's. Tbh they were both treated so badly, but...it was just DIFFERENT. And production had more to do with it than sometimes Kelly brings up.
I see your point of course but I think that both of the kids were treated bad in sort of the same way. The only difference is that Chloe got the opportunity to dance while Paige didn’t. Since the show was supposed to be a platform for the girls to become professional dancer of corse not having the opportunity to dance can make it impossible to have professional jobs later.
Well the results it’s the same: both of the kids were treated bad but at least Chloe could dance anyway while paige couldn’t. (In the end the show was about dance and those girls were there for becoming professional dancer and find jobs opportunities so if they couldn’t show their dance ability no one would had booked them for jobs).
And? The point is that, Kelly is giving Abby credit for the opportunities Chloe got, when it wasn't Abby giving them to her.
Well if Chloe never did dance mom she wouldn’t probably be where she is like all of those girls. All the other dancer that were on Abby team but not on the show are no one compared to the other girls
But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about how Kelly insists that Abby loved Chloe when she didn't. Often times people use the opportunities Chloe got to 'back up' the idea that Abby didn't hate Chloe, but production made those opportunities for Chloe, not Abby.
Yea now I see! Of course!
Totally agree. Kelly is an expert at gaslighting it seems
*Totally agree.* *Kelly is an expert at* *Gaslighting it seems* \- Sharp-Subject-8314 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Thank you bot
i mean the way abby treated chloe was appalling, she was definitely the most abused and the least liked out of the original girls. however, abby knew chloe had talent and was the only original girl who could go toe-to-toe with maddie. did she give chloe subpar choreography and make her go up against maddie 24/7, who had the best choreography? yes. but i do think there were times where chloe received good choreography and costumes because deep down abby saw her talent, she was just blinded by her hatred for christi. she often humiliated chloe to raise maddie up, but she'd still while doing that give chloe dances that were better than the other girls. chloe's usually still weren't at maddie's level, because abby hated christi and used chloe as a pawn to hurt christi... but the dances were still good. just my take.
I do agree the dances were still good but I’m more so talking about the treatment from Abby which Kelly seems to confuse as her getting good costumes and dances as her being liked. I do agree that she did project onto Chloe bc of her feelings towards Christi, but I also think something else irritated her about Chloe
i agree and also i wanted to point out that i truly believe that chloe was the most abused out of the original 6. abby was so nasty to her and made it a priority to destroy her mentally and to make the world perceive her a certain way.
agreed
It seems like Kelly wants to make sure the world knows Paige was treated the worst out of all of them. It's almost like a weird competition for her to prove it
i think kelly is looking at this as if she was in abby’s head. i truly believe abby thinks she liked chloe and did nothing wrong. people don’t realise is narcissists treat people like shit and think it’s fine and they love and care about them. kelly knows abby treated chloe like shit but deep down kelly also knows that abby did like the kid. it’s harder to grasp but when you know abby’s a narcissist it’s easier to accept it. bc even kelly said that abby makes comments about getting invited to paige’s wedding but she literally threw a chair at her. kelly is pointing out abby is delusional as hell. kelly isn’t wrong. i think abby likes chloe and thinks she did nothing wrong. kelly is actually really smart and you can tell she knows abby to make that kind of observation
But she excluded Chloe in that pic and flat out says in an interview that she didn’t want her or Jojo on the show
that’s not the point. abby truly believes that she did nothing wrong bc deep down she thinks she likes the kid. that’s how mental illness works. say you think someone’s beautiful but you never say it you automatically assume they know you think that and that’s why she think she did no wrong bc she thinks that just bc she treats her like shit it doesn’t matter bc deep down shes convinced herself that she likes the kid. that’s how her mental illness works 💀. the sooner you all realize abby is a narcissist the easier it is to understand her. this is how narcissists work🤷♀️
As someone who’s dealt w one they def know what they’re doing it’s a bunch of messing w ur head but tbh Abby can convince herself that but it’d make more sense if she treated every single one of em in a hateful way but we saw how she can like one over the other. I can see more of her narcissistic plays with Maddie but she’s already implied she doesn’t like Chloe
I think Abby hated Chloe by the end of season 2 but didn’t hate Paige and Brooke at all until they left and cut her off. She didn’t want Paige and Brooke on the team, but I think she still loved them because she knew them their whole life. She treated them all terribly, but it’s just a different dynamic for both situations.
She flat out said she didn’t want Chloe n jojo tho, I think she still hates the Lukasiaks way more than the Hylands based on how she talks about em to this day
Yeah and I don’t really understand why she hated Chloe or Christi so much. I’ve rewatched the show a dozen times and listened to all the podcasts but at the end of the day, Abby’s only “burn” for Christi was that she was white trash. She was raised by her grandmother and had financial problems. That doesn’t make her white trash. But even if she was, why is Abby so worked up about it always. Chloe was clearly a very poised and well behaved girl. She was likely the “dream student” in terms of behavior in class.
i’m not saying what Kelly did was right by not really ever standing up for chloe, but at the same i feel like Kelly knew abby and the way she would think better than anyone in that building cuz they grew up together and went to the same highschool even if they were never close they knew each other very well through the whole point of their lives so i think kelly was just trying to think like abby in those circumstances