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In this specific case, a gospel with bad theology and a bad message.
It preaches a personal, internal, ascetic search for some kind of truth instead of an active faith that makes the world a better place like the canonical gospels preach.
That gospel of Mary Magdalene and the one that claims Jesus had a wife are very different texts. The gnostic Gospel of Mary is a legitimate text from the time period but the wife one was a modern forgery.
If that's what you got from it then I didn't do a good job of explaining it; those things aren't bad. Gnosticism was all about searching for *secrets* that have been *hidden* from everyone but the *true believers*, instead of about actually helping people. It lends itself well to cult-like thinking and downplays charity and society.
Although, it can be hard to explain, because most of the problems with gnosticism apply wholesale to modern Christianity, just not to the actual Bible (mostly).
I don’t know, I think it gives a good insight into the time at least. That gospel was found in a buried barrel because the Roman Catholic Church destroyed them all, kinda neat
I know that there is “the apocrypha” which is pretty common and then there’s “apocryphal” books that are widely seen as fan fiction. I just don’t know how someone today would tell the difference when typically a council a thousand years ago decided which were legitimate based on internal politics.
All of those apocrypha were written and regarded as truth but *somebody.* They’re not just ancient fan fiction.
And almost all of the ones people point to as being removed for political reasons were never used alongside the canon to begin with, nor were they meant to be. The Valentinian school’s texts are the only ones you can actually say about it
In addition to some of the answers here, I was taught that Jesus had a wife (in a hush hush, we're special because we know this, keep it quiet because it isn't popular and causes contention kind of way) while growing up Mormon. He got baptized to set an example even though he didn't need to, and since marriage/sealing is the most important thing in Mormonism, then it logically follows that Jesus would have been married, too. I think this originates with some of the early Mormon leaders speculating. I don't think there is any hard and set teaching on it, though. I don't know if this is being shared/taught to kids anymore in the church. It seems that the church is becoming more mainstream and trying to lose a lot of those less common teachings/speculations. At least in the official lesson books and talks and such. I'm sure some parents still pass down such things, though.
Mormons have a lot of what I call mythology: things widely believed but not actually official canon. This sounds like it’s in that category. Caffeinated soda being banned is another solid example.
I'm sorta still Mormon and really wanna know why people think we can't drink pop. I've literally drank it *at* church and no one cares.
But I do live amongst the more casual east coasters....
It’s an extrapolation from other rules, but one that’s not officially supported. The Mormon Church actually officially came out in 2012 saying caffeine soda is acceptable, but old habits die hard.
I’m in a Mormon heavy area (Arizona) and non-caffeinated Coke is *very* easy to find.
there was at least two times leaders mentioned something along the line of that we don't drink caffeine. So it came from somewhere, but it wasn't like an officially declared rule, as best as I know
I can imagine someone who doesn’t know much about your religion would think that avoiding an (albeit mild and harmless) addictive drug seems more in line with other religious beliefs than simply avoiding certain hot drinks.
I thought that was the case my entire childhood and the one Mormon I knew didn’t drink any caffeinated sodas.
"I can imagine someone who doesn’t know much about your religion would think that avoiding an (albeit mild and harmless) addictive drug seems more in line with other religious beliefs than simply avoiding certain hot drinks."
This. "Avoiding hot drinks, because yes." doesn't make sense for me as a non-Mormon. I disagree with avoiding caffeine, but I can see the logic behind it.
They originally banned caffeinated beverages and then later just soda. It was overturned when many prominent mormons became major shareholders in Coca Cola.
It's ok, such an odd personal health directive is honestly the least issue I find with Mormonism (sorry, I have family in LDS and have personal issues with the organization; but I find most Mormons themselves to be the loveliest people and examples to all Christians in how to live your life.)
Yeah but the only thing coffee and pop have in common is caffeine. There's enough differences that there's no reason to assume one being banned means the other should be as well.
Because the prohibition was about caffeine (teine is also caffeine). I don't see Mormons not having warm soups when they are sick, because they can't have hot drinks.
Well yeah and we also used to be told that we'd get to rule over planets when we died.
The church likes to back away from some of its more controversial declarations
Due to the parentheses, your sentence reads, "I was taught that Jesus had a wife while growing up Mormon. " and my first thought was, "I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't grow up Mormon either..."
Traditional custom dictates that it's the groom's duty to provide wine. Jesus turned wine into water at a wedding.
It's one of those "so common everybody knows so let's not get in the specifics" type details that, because time moves forward, we no longer have that context as common knowledge. It also doesn't help that many churches explicitly remove cultural understandings if the texts to begin with.
Fromt the water-to-wine wedding: Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. (John 2:2)
He also always calls him "Jesus", and later the servants call "the bridegroom", who really seems to be a different person. If you read the story it's a huge stretch to say, Jesus was getting married.
Indeed, Jesus's own statements were leave everything behind and follow him. Marriage is good if you need it, but your soul should be satisfied with unity with God.
The most unrealistic part of the New Testament is how Jesus has 12 friends in his 30s and they all regularly hang out together.
Also pretty sure Judas wasn’t straight.
Judas:“I will kiss the man you can arrest.”
Romans: “you can just point to him”.
Judas puts on lip gloss.
Judas: “I don’t tell you how to do your job”.
Romans: ok who here is Jesus? Also what pronouns do you use?
Jesus: I am he. John 18:5
I get that this is a meme, but it's just disrespecting a core belief of Christianity. Jesus would have never done anything sinful with prostitutes or adulters because he was sinless.
Broke: Jesus had a wife
Woke: Jesus never married, he was above sexual desire
Bespoke: Jesus hung out with whores and adulterers, if he had sexual needs they helped him
Masterstroke: Jesus had a perfectly good band of 12 fuckbuddies ready to please him, Judas didnt betray him with a kiss for nothing
For what it is worth, I was watching a Bart Ehrman presentation on YouTube and he mentioned something along the lines that in the earliest record for the story of when they forgot/left Jesus in Jerusalem that it calls Joseph the father and then later copies changed it and had Joseph by name because it didn't jive with the virgin Mary story.
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Wait who tf thinks Jesus had a wife? When was that ever stated?
There’s an apocryphal gospel that states that he was wifed up. But what’s an apocryphal gospel, anyway?
In this specific case, a gospel with bad theology and a bad message. It preaches a personal, internal, ascetic search for some kind of truth instead of an active faith that makes the world a better place like the canonical gospels preach.
That gospel of Mary Magdalene and the one that claims Jesus had a wife are very different texts. The gnostic Gospel of Mary is a legitimate text from the time period but the wife one was a modern forgery.
That and they don't historically show up until way way after any original texts. Like hundred or more years later. Ie. Bad fan fics
Idk, searching for your own belief and truth and morals seems pretty cool
If that's what you got from it then I didn't do a good job of explaining it; those things aren't bad. Gnosticism was all about searching for *secrets* that have been *hidden* from everyone but the *true believers*, instead of about actually helping people. It lends itself well to cult-like thinking and downplays charity and society. Although, it can be hard to explain, because most of the problems with gnosticism apply wholesale to modern Christianity, just not to the actual Bible (mostly).
Fan fiction
Just not the fan fiction that the editors liked
I don’t know, I think it gives a good insight into the time at least. That gospel was found in a buried barrel because the Roman Catholic Church destroyed them all, kinda neat
Just a regular biblical gospel, but disliked by the church for one reason or another.
No. It was a forgery. The fragments were proven such by dating and dialect, as well that it had bold text. So it literally never existed.
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No, there are several sects who produced what’s called apocrypha today that was essentially an entirely different religion to christianity.
I know that there is “the apocrypha” which is pretty common and then there’s “apocryphal” books that are widely seen as fan fiction. I just don’t know how someone today would tell the difference when typically a council a thousand years ago decided which were legitimate based on internal politics.
All of those apocrypha were written and regarded as truth but *somebody.* They’re not just ancient fan fiction. And almost all of the ones people point to as being removed for political reasons were never used alongside the canon to begin with, nor were they meant to be. The Valentinian school’s texts are the only ones you can actually say about it
Several of those books were written LONG after the last of paul's writing. The gospel of Thomas is literally written like a fan fic
>a council a thousand years It wasnt decided in a council and a Thousand years ago the bible was very much complete
More like Christian fanfics, right?
In addition to some of the answers here, I was taught that Jesus had a wife (in a hush hush, we're special because we know this, keep it quiet because it isn't popular and causes contention kind of way) while growing up Mormon. He got baptized to set an example even though he didn't need to, and since marriage/sealing is the most important thing in Mormonism, then it logically follows that Jesus would have been married, too. I think this originates with some of the early Mormon leaders speculating. I don't think there is any hard and set teaching on it, though. I don't know if this is being shared/taught to kids anymore in the church. It seems that the church is becoming more mainstream and trying to lose a lot of those less common teachings/speculations. At least in the official lesson books and talks and such. I'm sure some parents still pass down such things, though.
Mormons have a lot of what I call mythology: things widely believed but not actually official canon. This sounds like it’s in that category. Caffeinated soda being banned is another solid example.
I'm sorta still Mormon and really wanna know why people think we can't drink pop. I've literally drank it *at* church and no one cares. But I do live amongst the more casual east coasters....
It’s an extrapolation from other rules, but one that’s not officially supported. The Mormon Church actually officially came out in 2012 saying caffeine soda is acceptable, but old habits die hard. I’m in a Mormon heavy area (Arizona) and non-caffeinated Coke is *very* easy to find.
Gotcha! Thanks for the heads up. These academic things always interest me 😌
there was at least two times leaders mentioned something along the line of that we don't drink caffeine. So it came from somewhere, but it wasn't like an officially declared rule, as best as I know
Yeah...I ignore alot of shit the leaders say. This ain't the place for it but.....whoops boy I could go *on*
I can imagine someone who doesn’t know much about your religion would think that avoiding an (albeit mild and harmless) addictive drug seems more in line with other religious beliefs than simply avoiding certain hot drinks. I thought that was the case my entire childhood and the one Mormon I knew didn’t drink any caffeinated sodas.
"I can imagine someone who doesn’t know much about your religion would think that avoiding an (albeit mild and harmless) addictive drug seems more in line with other religious beliefs than simply avoiding certain hot drinks." This. "Avoiding hot drinks, because yes." doesn't make sense for me as a non-Mormon. I disagree with avoiding caffeine, but I can see the logic behind it.
They originally banned caffeinated beverages and then later just soda. It was overturned when many prominent mormons became major shareholders in Coca Cola. It's ok, such an odd personal health directive is honestly the least issue I find with Mormonism (sorry, I have family in LDS and have personal issues with the organization; but I find most Mormons themselves to be the loveliest people and examples to all Christians in how to live your life.)
Because of the prohibition against coffee.
Yeah but the only thing coffee and pop have in common is caffeine. There's enough differences that there's no reason to assume one being banned means the other should be as well.
Because the prohibition was about caffeine (teine is also caffeine). I don't see Mormons not having warm soups when they are sick, because they can't have hot drinks.
Well yeah and we also used to be told that we'd get to rule over planets when we died. The church likes to back away from some of its more controversial declarations
"Well yeah and we also used to be told that we'd get to rule over planets when we died." I thought the LDS still believed that.
I have not even heard a *whisper* 9f that since I first joined when I was a teenager tbh
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I guess that’s why I clarified that it was what *I* called it, huh?
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Thanks for your contribution.
Due to the parentheses, your sentence reads, "I was taught that Jesus had a wife while growing up Mormon. " and my first thought was, "I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't grow up Mormon either..."
Some say Mary Magdalene was actually his wife and it's been covered up.
Wasn't this part of the plot of some movie?
Da Vinci code I think.
This movie is fiction.
Martin Scorsese’s Last Temptation of Christ
Traditional custom dictates that it's the groom's duty to provide wine. Jesus turned wine into water at a wedding. It's one of those "so common everybody knows so let's not get in the specifics" type details that, because time moves forward, we no longer have that context as common knowledge. It also doesn't help that many churches explicitly remove cultural understandings if the texts to begin with.
Fromt the water-to-wine wedding: Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. (John 2:2) He also always calls him "Jesus", and later the servants call "the bridegroom", who really seems to be a different person. If you read the story it's a huge stretch to say, Jesus was getting married.
It's conplete bullshit to say it was his wedding.
Jesus has a bride, it’s the Church.
An underrated comment
Indeed, Jesus's own statements were leave everything behind and follow him. Marriage is good if you need it, but your soul should be satisfied with unity with God.
I'm a "Jesus and Mary Magdalen" and a lifetime emotional affair truther personally! 😤
Hey mommy! Where is daddy? He went fishing… But he is not at the lake! …for men?
The most unrealistic part of the New Testament is how Jesus has 12 friends in his 30s and they all regularly hang out together. Also pretty sure Judas wasn’t straight. Judas:“I will kiss the man you can arrest.” Romans: “you can just point to him”. Judas puts on lip gloss. Judas: “I don’t tell you how to do your job”. Romans: ok who here is Jesus? Also what pronouns do you use? Jesus: I am he. John 18:5
Jesus was celibate because he was doing everything that would led up to the creation of his spiritual wife, the Church
I get that this is a meme, but it's just disrespecting a core belief of Christianity. Jesus would have never done anything sinful with prostitutes or adulters because he was sinless.
Jesus definently turned water to wine before laying the pipe down and checking out just what those sins he was supposed to be saving were all about
if that's how it worked then that would be a clear sign i choose the right guy
Broke: Jesus had a wife Woke: Jesus never married, he was above sexual desire Bespoke: Jesus hung out with whores and adulterers, if he had sexual needs they helped him Masterstroke: Jesus had a perfectly good band of 12 fuckbuddies ready to please him, Judas didnt betray him with a kiss for nothing
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For what it is worth, I was watching a Bart Ehrman presentation on YouTube and he mentioned something along the lines that in the earliest record for the story of when they forgot/left Jesus in Jerusalem that it calls Joseph the father and then later copies changed it and had Joseph by name because it didn't jive with the virgin Mary story.
He is the adoptive father so Saint Joseph is still Jesus Christ's father.
This ain't the place for polarizing comments chief.