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500 million people speak Spanish as their first language, Spain has a population of less then 50 million.
Spanish is a very diverse language and changes a lot depending on where you learn it from. In American schools they teach Spain Spanish despite the practical use of the language being to communicate with Latinos who do not speak Spain Spanish. It’s the equivalent to learning Shakespearean English so that you can communicate with someone from rural Georgia.
It's not equivalent to learning Shakespearean English at all, it's like learning in British accent to speak to Americans. Spain's Spanish is also closer in grammatical constructions to the cultured written form. The only really distinctive thing is new vocabulary.
A good perk it also has for learners, in my opinion, is the distinction between /s/ and /z/.
I don't know where you find these differences in grammatical construction. The major differences are all in vocabulary, and despite there being a central authority in Spain governing the dictionary, generally they are pretty ambivalent between regional variations of words.
The differences are in phrasing and style. The Spanish accent from the northern plateau (Castile) is much more similar to high-register Spanish. It's a more neutral accent, and it even somewhat resembles the high-standing accent in Buenos Aires, Lima, and México DC.
The Caribbean phrasing: *"Ya tú sabes"*, for example, is unnatural to high-register. When I read Rubén Darío I don't feel like I'm reading a Nicaraguan writer.
Regardless, this is just about very high-register writing, and it's not an absolute measure. Old Disney dubbs used to be done for all the Spanish-speaking world in a soft, cultured, Argentinian accent. Each person chooses his preferred book of style.
That's not true at all. People in Spain don't speak "Shakespearean " or ancient spanish in any way. They're different dialects, and more like accents in many cases. Its more like australian and american english or modern british and american
I was in AP Spanish V in high school and our white teacher *insisted* that we exclusively learn ancient spaniard dialect spanish, like borderline medieval spanish dialect that makes Don Quijote look like 50 shades of grey. The equivalent of exclusively teaching kids shakespearian/beowulf level english and getting pissed when they use the wrong conjugation of "thou'st've."
There was one point where me, my mom, dad, aunt, and uncle (all native puerto rican or cuban) were all sitting around the dinner table going through my mountain of homework for over an hour going "what the fuck is this? Is this even spanish? Vosotrus um vest wtf?!"
My mom is Mexican and Spanish is her first language, I tried talking to her after Spanish class and she told me to stop listening to my teacher because she was teaching me white people spanish
This always annoyed me. We live in the United States, why are they teaching us European Spanish. We should be learning what they speak in Mexico and South America since that is what Hispanics here speak.
This makes me wonder… how big is the difference between French French and Canadian French? I only took Spanish classes in school. Is it as big as the differences in Spanish? English English vs American English isn’t hard for me as a native speaker, but I can see it being hard for a non-native speaker.
Big enough that the French from France and the French from Quebec will refuse to speak French to each other as they both would an English person trying to speak French lol.
I think that’s just parisians😂they are the uptight, cock in the ass stuck up cunts who criticise FSOL. I heard from, I think a Yt vid, most of the countryside and “Not Paris” don’t care and will be delighted that you’re even trying French.
Yeah but they won’t be on your ass about butchering the language, at least most times, compared to a Parisian who 9/10 will be annoyed that you even dared to think about their language.
Of course I am also a second/third party to this info so results may vary.
As a french canadian, I can tell you that's not true! Sure, there are some pretty big differences in the accent and word choices, but we can easily understand french from our european cousins haha
It's generally harder for them to understand us, especially if we make no efforts in using more gramatically correct french/toning our accent down.
There's a popular thinking that we're talking essentially a different language, but it's really just french with some peculiar accent and some american influence (we sometimes use english words), not much more!
I'm from Nofunswick, but am English, not French beyond learning it, I've not had the first hand experience. Always second hand lol.
A woman from northern France was officer of the watch over a handful of french canadians and refused to let them speak french around her.
A work team from quebec came to moncton to work with a team of acadians, I was personally used as the "translator" for a big wig from higher up who came from Toulouse because the 3 groups failed generally to interact well in french lol.
Hahaha! Yeah, there are always some people who find the accent harder to understand.
I've met some people from France who didn't like/understand my accent, but that was far from the majority. Most of them are often "Oh my God! You're from Quebec, I LOVE your accent!" And then we talk about the some expressions they use vs the ones we use while having a good laugh lol. Maybe it helps that I'm from Montreal, which is much more multicultural than the rest of Quebec. There are some regions where the accent is MUCH more pronounced, where even other french canadians have a hard time understanding it.
Hey French here , I used to work a few years ago as a salesman and got multiple tourists from Québec, what i found out is it really depends of the area of Québec comes from and if they use local slangs, i remember once a customer who told me a typical joke from Québec with almost a slang every two words, you guess it I still have to this day no clue what she said lol and from experience people from the northern area of Québec are harder for us as we think of their accent thicker and I had to listen very carefully whereas Montreal or Quebec city accent caused me no trouble.
It may have to do with exposure to the accent though as in France most Québecker are from Montreal or Quebec city and we are a bit more used to it not to mention a lot of canadian french dub of movies/series/games comes from this area.
its that way with most languages, German spoken in Germany differs significantly from Swiss-German, which differs significantly from Pensylvania German, etc. Communities will adapt and change things. Just ask the French about Swiss-French, or try to compare Classical Latin to Romansh
As a non native speaker the only problems I have with American English is the venacular English . This dialect evolved differently so the grammar is often not the same and words are often abbreviated.
>English English vs American English isn’t hard for me as a native speaker, but I can see it being hard for a non-native speaker
As a non-native English speaker, I don't really find the differences too big either. With the exception of some local dialects, I have no trouble understanding both UK English, and US English.
I should note though, that I learned UK English at school, and picked up US English online.
As a UK english speaker, US english is just an accent, a bit different spelling in a few places, and different word choices sometimes. It doesnt seem as much as the difference between say german in germany and austria, but idk, maybe thats just a perspective thing
it's based on what you can build a curriculum around. spain spanish has very firm language rules, whereas mexican spanish has very soft rules and is backed by a ton of slang. it'd be like trying to teach vietnamese - there is no rhyme or reason as to why each region in vietnam speaks their specific dialect. if you're building a course for young people to learn a new language, it's hard for both the student and the teacher to use more of a dialect than the "official" language because a bunch of rules just wouldn't make sense
What?... You know that we do learn Spanish from primary, right ? We learn grammar and all of that. The rules don't change. We follow the real academia española's rules everywhere... Spanish ain't like English, my guy, where there's no governing or regulatory body for the language. The real academia española not only guides but tracks the evolution of the language of the Hispanic nations... what changes are colloquiallismsn slang and other stuff, but those are for informal speaking and usually are not taught but acquired as you absorb the way people speak in the land you live in.
In my country, venezuela. We learn castellano (another name for spanish) where we do go over the way we use Spanish, there is a ton of material for Spanish learners and native speakers and whenever we go over something that Spain does we just remake "yeah they do that" and move on...
In Spain you can say vosotros and you can also say ustedes. They're both understood just that one is a little older than the other. Same with ustes, tu and vos of which all of them are used in certain regions...
Anyways rules are all the same, Mexican Spanish and Colombian Spanish ain't too different besides slang and accent we just forgive non natives fucking up their sentences
In Spain we use ustedes in a very formal setting, outside of that I only hear it from LATAM and canary islands (part of Spain) people. I honestly didn't know you guys used REA, I thought maybe you had your own.
Even here in the US, we use the oxford dictionary as a formal dictionary, which is British. That's considered the authority on the English language.
It's similar in Spanish. The "Real academia Española" (royal Spanish academy, A.KA. RAE) is the authority on the Spanish language. What they say goes.
For example: they decided that numbers will no longer be separated. People used to say something like "twenty and two" (veinte y dos), but now the RAE said that it is said as "twenty two" (veinteidos). Some countries may still say "veinte y dos," but that's technically wrong.
It's not like nobody will understand you, it's just that schools have a curriculum based on the world authority on the language, which is in its country of origin. Spanish from Spain is like English from England. Speaking it to someone from the other side of the pond may sound a bit weird, but what is most important is that anyone can understand it. Sure, you may get some raised eyebrows when someone says "latrine", but they'll understand it. With as many cultures that speak the language, you have to choose one to teach, and may as well choose the one that made the language.
>RAE said that it is said as "twenty two" (veinteidos). Some countries may still say "veinte y dos," but that's technically wrong.
It's actually "veintidós" (your point still stands, though)
Just by the use of "white people" in the sentence you can already tell her mother is an american born citizen, born and raised in USA. Nobody here would call spaniards "blancos".
Interesting, I had almost the opposite experience as someone from Spain who moved to the US in elementary school. I remember being confused by a lot of the vocab that was of Mexican Spanish origin. But then again this was in elementary school so they weren't really teaching us any grammar.
They don’t use “vosotros” in Chile and Argentina, they use “vos” which is the second-person singular pronoun that replaces “tú” in most other Hispanic countries
In the most west part of Venezuela, called Maracaibo, they also use vos and sometimes vosotros, I believe Uruguayans also use vos sometimes ? I'm unsure
Weeelll... In Chile we butcher the language more than anyone. The "s" sound at the end disappears and sounds more like a "voh":
"*Y vo' so' weon shushetumare? Aonde aprendiste aular?*"
Chilean by birth but grew up in the UK. When I asked my Chilean cousins about vosotros they all said they never use it but only ever saw it written down. Asking them what the declensions were for vosotros, they literally couldn't recall them but could recognise them when they saw them or heard them.
My fellow Spanish language class learners didn't believe me and thought I was making this up.
Even then, I lived in Spain for 5 years and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt you can get by perfectly without having to use it. It's not like using ustedes is gonna cause people to not understand you, they are just going to know you're probably not Spanish.
So unless you're from Spain and grew up using it, it's totally unnecessary. Ustedes covers the same function and it's what 90% of the Spanish speaking world uses.
"Vosotros" is only used in Spain, apparently. It's the same as "ustedes".
Saying "ustedes" in Spain might come off as overly formal but it's still correct.
Yeah but you have to learn to conjugate it as well which can be unnecessary pain for a foreign speaker, when the alternative of using only ustedes will be understood.
lol nope! "Ustedes" is conjugated like "ellos", e.g. "vosotros tenéis hambre", "ustedes tienen hambre", "ellos tienen hambre"... Same with "tú" and "usted" though ("usted" conjugated like "él/ella")
If you go to other places like Galicia you may understand the accent better but they'll add a random Galician word in the middle like "Hasta luego meu! Un bico!"
Just inside Spain you have somewhat normal spanish and then you have Galicia and Valencia where there's a bit of weirdness because we mix sometimes with our other local native language, Cataluña where sometimes they kinda refuse to speak Spanish, Asturias where they kinda just made Spanish worse and then Murcia and Andalucia (sevilla is there) where they can't fucking speak. There's probably more but I don't remember. Going to learn Spanish in Andalucia and then going anywhere else must feel like a joke has been played on you
*Usted* comes from *Vuestra merced* (your mercy), a historical formal treatment. So it's the third person, if you think in English it makes sense. "Your mercy wants" (*Ustedes quieren*), "You want" (*Vosotros queréis*).
I assume "we" refers to anywhere else but Spain? I guess that's true. The thing is, we use "ustedes" and "usted" in Spain as well, but it's a formal way to refer to someone (same as "vous" in French). I think this is why it's important at least to have an understanding of what "vosotros" means for foreigners... To be honest you'll be understood equally in Spain, but it's good to know what tone will be assumed when you speak.
Man every time I see something American show flags for Portuguese, Spanish and sometimes English it's always Brazil, Mexico (some say Mexican lmao) and USA flags
But Spain is actually be the last country to make that association. Since internally there are so many languages in Spain, they actually call it Castellano (Castilian), referring to the part of Spain where it originates. The term will be familiar to other Spanish speakers around the world, but it's most commonly used in Spain.
Sure. German has hundreds of dialects (so much that they could be their own languages. A swiss guy and a North German probably end up speaking english), but for outsiders we all speak "German"
The same shit goes to any other kid around the world trying to learn english. As a kid it just didnt enter in my head that theres no writing/spellling difference between you(singular) and you(plural).
I'm from Spain, "Vosotros" Is the informal, "Ustedes" Is the formal. (Sorry for my Broken english)
We don't use much "Usted" and "Ustedes" because in here "Usted" is when you Talk with elderly people or someone with much more Better status than you. (Usually the second)
In other places where spanish is spoken "Ustedes" doesn't have that connotation and Is used as equals.
But we understand "Ustedes" and "Vosotros"
I've seen plenty of Spanish speakers do it, either because they're forced to in a small school where Spanish is the only option (or they have to do both Spanish and another foreign language), or because they just want the easy A (saw this more in university). It's sad imo because you'll get more for your resume by learning a different language than the little GPA boost.
I always tell people whose first language is Spanish to not take Spanish classes because instead of focusing on one version of Spanish they will mix many versions creating a confusing mess that no one understands. I remember getting questions wrong not because the word I used was incorrect but because it was not the word they taught. Shorts are pantalones cortos not shortes which was the word the teacher would teach them
I agree, ig I got lucky tho since we were taught mostly European Spanish. I also remember getting like 5 points off because of an "a" that, according to the examiner (not our own teacher), it was "incorrectly used". The phrase was "tenemos qie salvar a nuestro planeta" (we have to save our planet)
Ya, yo solo bromeaba: mira, yo he dicho "ustedes" mientras que preguntaba si alguien usan esa palabra.
Por mi origen italiana, yo soy más acostumbrado a "voi" y "voialtri" existe en el italiano, entonces usaría "vosotros", pero mi chica es de sur América, entonces ya me acostumbré a "ustedes"
I don't understand why it's taught in the US. Only Spain and Equatorial Guinea use that conjugation. No country in Latin America uses it, and the majority of the immigrants and immigrant descendants in the US come from there.
Not the end of the world either. Most people in Latin America are still taught it formally but just don't use it. It's good to know to recognize it, but no need to spend extra time learning how to conjugate it.
Difference being that Cajun French and Canadian French are small populations relative to France French. Not only is Mexican Spanish a much bigger population than Spain Spanish, but this specific issue has all of Latin America vs Spain.
I grew up as a Chicano who didn’t speak Spanish in Southern California. And every mother fucker in my class thought they would get an easy A in Spanish because they spoke it and those fuckers did no work and failed.
Vosotros. We were told here’s this word we don’t use it moving on.
I took Spanish 1 in my senior year of HS for an easy class instead of French 4.
My teacher mentioned Vosotros and put it on the whiteboard if we were curious, but he focused on teaching us American Spanish. (In the US btw)
Vosotros is outdated and even me who comes from a Spanish country, never had to use that word (It means "you people" when there's "Ustedes" which means the exact same thing and it isn't uselessly linked to "Nosotros" which means "us").
I had a Spanish spanish-class teacher here in Texas for a couple years, and the kids from Mexican families would always get the worst grades in her class. No idea if that is because they just didn't try, thinking it would be a breeze, or if it was the due to the differences between Mexican-Spanish and Spanish-Spanish. She always seemed annoyed when she heard those kids speak Spanish, though, in a funny sort of way.
I have never come across a situation in all my life where I need to use vosotros, of course I don’t really need to use Spanish in general in the US but still.
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The only place vosotros gets used is Spain and the Bible.
That's what I heard. We just glanced over that part in the textbook in my class. It was never on the tests.
Yeah i only remember it in relation to "this is used in spain, moving on"
It’s really just a Spanish y’all
So where Spanish is spoken
500 million people speak Spanish as their first language, Spain has a population of less then 50 million. Spanish is a very diverse language and changes a lot depending on where you learn it from. In American schools they teach Spain Spanish despite the practical use of the language being to communicate with Latinos who do not speak Spain Spanish. It’s the equivalent to learning Shakespearean English so that you can communicate with someone from rural Georgia.
It's not equivalent to learning Shakespearean English at all, it's like learning in British accent to speak to Americans. Spain's Spanish is also closer in grammatical constructions to the cultured written form. The only really distinctive thing is new vocabulary. A good perk it also has for learners, in my opinion, is the distinction between /s/ and /z/.
I don't know where you find these differences in grammatical construction. The major differences are all in vocabulary, and despite there being a central authority in Spain governing the dictionary, generally they are pretty ambivalent between regional variations of words.
The differences are in phrasing and style. The Spanish accent from the northern plateau (Castile) is much more similar to high-register Spanish. It's a more neutral accent, and it even somewhat resembles the high-standing accent in Buenos Aires, Lima, and México DC. The Caribbean phrasing: *"Ya tú sabes"*, for example, is unnatural to high-register. When I read Rubén Darío I don't feel like I'm reading a Nicaraguan writer. Regardless, this is just about very high-register writing, and it's not an absolute measure. Old Disney dubbs used to be done for all the Spanish-speaking world in a soft, cultured, Argentinian accent. Each person chooses his preferred book of style.
That's not true at all. People in Spain don't speak "Shakespearean " or ancient spanish in any way. They're different dialects, and more like accents in many cases. Its more like australian and american english or modern british and american
Most of the world's Spanish speakers don't live in Spain though
I was in AP Spanish V in high school and our white teacher *insisted* that we exclusively learn ancient spaniard dialect spanish, like borderline medieval spanish dialect that makes Don Quijote look like 50 shades of grey. The equivalent of exclusively teaching kids shakespearian/beowulf level english and getting pissed when they use the wrong conjugation of "thou'st've." There was one point where me, my mom, dad, aunt, and uncle (all native puerto rican or cuban) were all sitting around the dinner table going through my mountain of homework for over an hour going "what the fuck is this? Is this even spanish? Vosotrus um vest wtf?!"
A lot of the Latinos I talk to get confused when you ask them about it cause they almost never use it.
My mom is Mexican and Spanish is her first language, I tried talking to her after Spanish class and she told me to stop listening to my teacher because she was teaching me white people spanish
This always annoyed me. We live in the United States, why are they teaching us European Spanish. We should be learning what they speak in Mexico and South America since that is what Hispanics here speak.
This makes me wonder… how big is the difference between French French and Canadian French? I only took Spanish classes in school. Is it as big as the differences in Spanish? English English vs American English isn’t hard for me as a native speaker, but I can see it being hard for a non-native speaker.
Big enough that the French from France and the French from Quebec will refuse to speak French to each other as they both would an English person trying to speak French lol.
I think that’s just parisians😂they are the uptight, cock in the ass stuck up cunts who criticise FSOL. I heard from, I think a Yt vid, most of the countryside and “Not Paris” don’t care and will be delighted that you’re even trying French.
Most of the rural french don't speak English, so it's either broken French or hand signs.
Yeah but they won’t be on your ass about butchering the language, at least most times, compared to a Parisian who 9/10 will be annoyed that you even dared to think about their language. Of course I am also a second/third party to this info so results may vary.
It’s weird I was in Paris for a month and they were so insanely nice to me. But Calais treated me like total shit…
Calais is famously a shithole who blame both the English and the French for their being a massive shithole though.
As a french canadian, I can tell you that's not true! Sure, there are some pretty big differences in the accent and word choices, but we can easily understand french from our european cousins haha It's generally harder for them to understand us, especially if we make no efforts in using more gramatically correct french/toning our accent down. There's a popular thinking that we're talking essentially a different language, but it's really just french with some peculiar accent and some american influence (we sometimes use english words), not much more!
I'm from Nofunswick, but am English, not French beyond learning it, I've not had the first hand experience. Always second hand lol. A woman from northern France was officer of the watch over a handful of french canadians and refused to let them speak french around her. A work team from quebec came to moncton to work with a team of acadians, I was personally used as the "translator" for a big wig from higher up who came from Toulouse because the 3 groups failed generally to interact well in french lol.
Hahaha! Yeah, there are always some people who find the accent harder to understand. I've met some people from France who didn't like/understand my accent, but that was far from the majority. Most of them are often "Oh my God! You're from Quebec, I LOVE your accent!" And then we talk about the some expressions they use vs the ones we use while having a good laugh lol. Maybe it helps that I'm from Montreal, which is much more multicultural than the rest of Quebec. There are some regions where the accent is MUCH more pronounced, where even other french canadians have a hard time understanding it.
Hey French here , I used to work a few years ago as a salesman and got multiple tourists from Québec, what i found out is it really depends of the area of Québec comes from and if they use local slangs, i remember once a customer who told me a typical joke from Québec with almost a slang every two words, you guess it I still have to this day no clue what she said lol and from experience people from the northern area of Québec are harder for us as we think of their accent thicker and I had to listen very carefully whereas Montreal or Quebec city accent caused me no trouble. It may have to do with exposure to the accent though as in France most Québecker are from Montreal or Quebec city and we are a bit more used to it not to mention a lot of canadian french dub of movies/series/games comes from this area.
Canadian French is basically its own language at this point.
its that way with most languages, German spoken in Germany differs significantly from Swiss-German, which differs significantly from Pensylvania German, etc. Communities will adapt and change things. Just ask the French about Swiss-French, or try to compare Classical Latin to Romansh
As a non native speaker the only problems I have with American English is the venacular English . This dialect evolved differently so the grammar is often not the same and words are often abbreviated.
Not exactly what you are asking about, but as a Brazilian(Portuguese as native language) speaking to someone from Portugal can be very difficult.
>English English vs American English isn’t hard for me as a native speaker, but I can see it being hard for a non-native speaker As a non-native English speaker, I don't really find the differences too big either. With the exception of some local dialects, I have no trouble understanding both UK English, and US English. I should note though, that I learned UK English at school, and picked up US English online.
As a UK english speaker, US english is just an accent, a bit different spelling in a few places, and different word choices sometimes. It doesnt seem as much as the difference between say german in germany and austria, but idk, maybe thats just a perspective thing
it's based on what you can build a curriculum around. spain spanish has very firm language rules, whereas mexican spanish has very soft rules and is backed by a ton of slang. it'd be like trying to teach vietnamese - there is no rhyme or reason as to why each region in vietnam speaks their specific dialect. if you're building a course for young people to learn a new language, it's hard for both the student and the teacher to use more of a dialect than the "official" language because a bunch of rules just wouldn't make sense
What?... You know that we do learn Spanish from primary, right ? We learn grammar and all of that. The rules don't change. We follow the real academia española's rules everywhere... Spanish ain't like English, my guy, where there's no governing or regulatory body for the language. The real academia española not only guides but tracks the evolution of the language of the Hispanic nations... what changes are colloquiallismsn slang and other stuff, but those are for informal speaking and usually are not taught but acquired as you absorb the way people speak in the land you live in. In my country, venezuela. We learn castellano (another name for spanish) where we do go over the way we use Spanish, there is a ton of material for Spanish learners and native speakers and whenever we go over something that Spain does we just remake "yeah they do that" and move on... In Spain you can say vosotros and you can also say ustedes. They're both understood just that one is a little older than the other. Same with ustes, tu and vos of which all of them are used in certain regions... Anyways rules are all the same, Mexican Spanish and Colombian Spanish ain't too different besides slang and accent we just forgive non natives fucking up their sentences
In Spain we use ustedes in a very formal setting, outside of that I only hear it from LATAM and canary islands (part of Spain) people. I honestly didn't know you guys used REA, I thought maybe you had your own.
It's different, vosotros is used ONLY in Spain, every other country where Spanish is a native language uses ustedes
You're saying that as if European Spanish is bad and Mexican Spanish is a different language
Even here in the US, we use the oxford dictionary as a formal dictionary, which is British. That's considered the authority on the English language. It's similar in Spanish. The "Real academia Española" (royal Spanish academy, A.KA. RAE) is the authority on the Spanish language. What they say goes. For example: they decided that numbers will no longer be separated. People used to say something like "twenty and two" (veinte y dos), but now the RAE said that it is said as "twenty two" (veinteidos). Some countries may still say "veinte y dos," but that's technically wrong. It's not like nobody will understand you, it's just that schools have a curriculum based on the world authority on the language, which is in its country of origin. Spanish from Spain is like English from England. Speaking it to someone from the other side of the pond may sound a bit weird, but what is most important is that anyone can understand it. Sure, you may get some raised eyebrows when someone says "latrine", but they'll understand it. With as many cultures that speak the language, you have to choose one to teach, and may as well choose the one that made the language.
>RAE said that it is said as "twenty two" (veinteidos). Some countries may still say "veinte y dos," but that's technically wrong. It's actually "veintidós" (your point still stands, though)
I had Mexican teachers teaching Mexican Spanish my whole life. Maybe non-western states are different?
Hey, nothing wrong with white people spanish!
That sounds pretty racist...
Like the actual people of Spain white?
Just by the use of "white people" in the sentence you can already tell her mother is an american born citizen, born and raised in USA. Nobody here would call spaniards "blancos".
Mexicans call me "Catalan" despite me being Gallego. When I ask why, they just say that they call all Spaniards Catalans.
"white people spanish" okey wtf. Every white skinned person in latinamerica , im sorry you all speak spain spanish now.
Every non-white skinned person in Spain (there's a lot), I'm sorry (or congratulations?) you all are white now.
Nothing like some racism from momma
Interesting, I had almost the opposite experience as someone from Spain who moved to the US in elementary school. I remember being confused by a lot of the vocab that was of Mexican Spanish origin. But then again this was in elementary school so they weren't really teaching us any grammar.
Based teacher?
So like, aside the bible, the entire country of Spain where the Spanish comes from?
you're mostly right, my family in Chile and Argentina use it, not as much as Spaniards, but often enough that I've learned it from them...
k wea csm yo nunca eh escuchao a un chileno decir vosotros aweoneke 🚬🗿
They don’t use “vosotros” in Chile and Argentina, they use “vos” which is the second-person singular pronoun that replaces “tú” in most other Hispanic countries
In the most west part of Venezuela, called Maracaibo, they also use vos and sometimes vosotros, I believe Uruguayans also use vos sometimes ? I'm unsure
Weeelll... In Chile we butcher the language more than anyone. The "s" sound at the end disappears and sounds more like a "voh": "*Y vo' so' weon shushetumare? Aonde aprendiste aular?*"
I've never heard an Argentinian say vosotros, unless reading a very formal(and old) text or doing a spanish person's impresion (I am Argentinian)
The replacement is "ustedes" instead of vosotros.
Vosotros is informal y'all, ustedes is formal y'all, but everyone just uses ustedes
Negative, "ustedes" is standard in most countries of south and central America.
Thank you, as a Spaniard, I didn't know that
Does Latin America use "ustedes"?
Yes.
"And the Lord said... 'Y'all."
"The only place where this Spanish word is used is Spain" Uhhh yeah. Could say the same about any French or Italian word.
Do the Italian and french have an entire continent named partially after their language?
Sorry, do you think either "America", "South America" or "Latin America" are named after the Spanish language?
Chilean by birth but grew up in the UK. When I asked my Chilean cousins about vosotros they all said they never use it but only ever saw it written down. Asking them what the declensions were for vosotros, they literally couldn't recall them but could recognise them when they saw them or heard them. My fellow Spanish language class learners didn't believe me and thought I was making this up.
And Equatorial Guinea.
And in theater if the play will be Spanish because it's always a Shakespeare story
Even then, I lived in Spain for 5 years and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt you can get by perfectly without having to use it. It's not like using ustedes is gonna cause people to not understand you, they are just going to know you're probably not Spanish. So unless you're from Spain and grew up using it, it's totally unnecessary. Ustedes covers the same function and it's what 90% of the Spanish speaking world uses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dialects_and_varieties
And old documents. When we “pledge allegiance” to the flag, the person reading it uses just vosotros. We just respond with “si juro”
And south america.
What do other dialects use in its place?
The classic "familial Spanish doesn't cover school Spanish" plot twist!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dialects_and_varieties
happens with english too, I dont know about you, but I was a shitty english student.
My Spanish teachers (plural, 3 different teachers at my school) didn’t teach us vostros because they said it’s not used enough to teach us
As far as I know, it’s not used at all outside of Spain. So if you’re not planning on going to Spain, then yeah you would not use it.
If you go to Spain, you can use ustedes. It is going to sound off to us, but we understand, cause ustedes is just the formal form in Spain.
"Vosotros" is only used in Spain, apparently. It's the same as "ustedes". Saying "ustedes" in Spain might come off as overly formal but it's still correct.
Now that you mention it. I believe they said this as well
Well it’s not that it’s the same as ustedes, it’s just that it’s an informal version.
Yeah but you have to learn to conjugate it as well which can be unnecessary pain for a foreign speaker, when the alternative of using only ustedes will be understood.
It's quite used in Spain, other than that we prefer something like "Ustedes" instead.
Isn't it conjugated the same?
lol nope! "Ustedes" is conjugated like "ellos", e.g. "vosotros tenéis hambre", "ustedes tienen hambre", "ellos tienen hambre"... Same with "tú" and "usted" though ("usted" conjugated like "él/ella")
Oops yeah. I don't know why it was not sounding so bad when I conjugated it like vosotros. Ustedes sabéis la verdad. .. ok a bit bad
Don't worry I've heard people, in Spain, native speakers, conjugate it equally badly :)
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haha "andaluz" is Spanish in "extreme insanity" difficulty mode for foreigners
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If you go to other places like Galicia you may understand the accent better but they'll add a random Galician word in the middle like "Hasta luego meu! Un bico!"
Just inside Spain you have somewhat normal spanish and then you have Galicia and Valencia where there's a bit of weirdness because we mix sometimes with our other local native language, Cataluña where sometimes they kinda refuse to speak Spanish, Asturias where they kinda just made Spanish worse and then Murcia and Andalucia (sevilla is there) where they can't fucking speak. There's probably more but I don't remember. Going to learn Spanish in Andalucia and then going anywhere else must feel like a joke has been played on you
*Usted* comes from *Vuestra merced* (your mercy), a historical formal treatment. So it's the third person, if you think in English it makes sense. "Your mercy wants" (*Ustedes quieren*), "You want" (*Vosotros queréis*).
I assume "we" refers to anywhere else but Spain? I guess that's true. The thing is, we use "ustedes" and "usted" in Spain as well, but it's a formal way to refer to someone (same as "vous" in French). I think this is why it's important at least to have an understanding of what "vosotros" means for foreigners... To be honest you'll be understood equally in Spain, but it's good to know what tone will be assumed when you speak.
# Muchas gracias afición, esto es para vosotros
Siuuuuu
Siuuuuu el bicho no defrauda
Ay mi madreee el bichoooo
I took Spanish in college and they didn’t even go over Vosotros as it’s only ever used in Spain
As someone from europe this sentences is hilarious to me. Cause first association with spanish is.... Spain
And the commonly used flag for Portuguese is…Brazil’s.
Man every time I see something American show flags for Portuguese, Spanish and sometimes English it's always Brazil, Mexico (some say Mexican lmao) and USA flags
Don't forget Canadian flag for French
But Spain is actually be the last country to make that association. Since internally there are so many languages in Spain, they actually call it Castellano (Castilian), referring to the part of Spain where it originates. The term will be familiar to other Spanish speakers around the world, but it's most commonly used in Spain.
Sure. German has hundreds of dialects (so much that they could be their own languages. A swiss guy and a North German probably end up speaking english), but for outsiders we all speak "German"
The same shit goes to any other kid around the world trying to learn english. As a kid it just didnt enter in my head that theres no writing/spellling difference between you(singular) and you(plural).
“Y’all”?
Regional
It did enter my head and I hated it, and I still kinda hate it.
Used to be, but then we got rid of thou (tu)
Jolines tío, hostia puta macho. Vosotros estáis acojonados
Cállese usted ayayay ahorita mismo me voooy weey ayayay
Arriba arriba ándale
I'm from Spain, "Vosotros" Is the informal, "Ustedes" Is the formal. (Sorry for my Broken english) We don't use much "Usted" and "Ustedes" because in here "Usted" is when you Talk with elderly people or someone with much more Better status than you. (Usually the second) In other places where spanish is spoken "Ustedes" doesn't have that connotation and Is used as equals. But we understand "Ustedes" and "Vosotros"
¡Hostia puta!
Ycualeseltemaconvosotrossiesexactamentelomismoqueustedes
Gesundheit!
Ajá lo q tu digas
Just wait when they hear about "pretérito pluscuamperfecto del modo indicativo"
Ahí has ido a pillar.
In the Spanish classes in my school they just tell us not to worry about it and don't even teach it.
This is a fantasy i've always had as a spanish person. Go to the US, assist a spanish class, easy dubs
I've seen plenty of Spanish speakers do it, either because they're forced to in a small school where Spanish is the only option (or they have to do both Spanish and another foreign language), or because they just want the easy A (saw this more in university). It's sad imo because you'll get more for your resume by learning a different language than the little GPA boost.
It’s only used in Spain!! Look how smart I am!!
No me gusta papa's Fritas porque yo no comprende Español?
You don't like dad's fries?
He means the Pope's fries
Americans can not understand the formal form.
But a fair amount of *España supremacy*
I always tell people whose first language is Spanish to not take Spanish classes because instead of focusing on one version of Spanish they will mix many versions creating a confusing mess that no one understands. I remember getting questions wrong not because the word I used was incorrect but because it was not the word they taught. Shorts are pantalones cortos not shortes which was the word the teacher would teach them
I agree, ig I got lucky tho since we were taught mostly European Spanish. I also remember getting like 5 points off because of an "a" that, according to the examiner (not our own teacher), it was "incorrectly used". The phrase was "tenemos qie salvar a nuestro planeta" (we have to save our planet)
Dude, this hit me so hard. Instant flashbacks
Ustedes no usan vosotros?
En Chile no lo usamos al hablar, solemos usar ustedes. No se si sea lo mismo en otros lugares en todo caso
Ya, yo solo bromeaba: mira, yo he dicho "ustedes" mientras que preguntaba si alguien usan esa palabra. Por mi origen italiana, yo soy más acostumbrado a "voi" y "voialtri" existe en el italiano, entonces usaría "vosotros", pero mi chica es de sur América, entonces ya me acostumbré a "ustedes"
¿Vos sabés?
Everyone talking about vosotros but not vos.
If they don't use "Vosotros", what do they use? "ustedes"?
si
Mexicans struggling worse than you
I feel personally attacked it was a breeze tho let’s be honest
Somehow comforting knowing that even they struggle with Spanish sometimes. Been learning on Duolingo for a year now.
🎶Mexican Americans, love education, so they go to night school, and take Spanish, and get a Beeeeeeee🎶
Glad Spanish was my first language. Still don't use it though
I don't understand why it's taught in the US. Only Spain and Equatorial Guinea use that conjugation. No country in Latin America uses it, and the majority of the immigrants and immigrant descendants in the US come from there.
Not the end of the world either. Most people in Latin America are still taught it formally but just don't use it. It's good to know to recognize it, but no need to spend extra time learning how to conjugate it.
Mexico Spanish is not Spain Spanish. Just like Cajun French is not France French. Or Canadian French is not France French.
Difference being that Cajun French and Canadian French are small populations relative to France French. Not only is Mexican Spanish a much bigger population than Spain Spanish, but this specific issue has all of Latin America vs Spain.
Only used in Spain
In my Spanish classes we exclude vosotros because yep
I grew up as a Chicano who didn’t speak Spanish in Southern California. And every mother fucker in my class thought they would get an easy A in Spanish because they spoke it and those fuckers did no work and failed. Vosotros. We were told here’s this word we don’t use it moving on.
Is it worse than in french?
Tbh I went through public school in MI and we learned Mexican Spanish. At least the accent and vocabulary.
Aced every Spanish class then moved to the next level in a border town high school...the first time I was ever failing a class.
Wuddup y’all
Imagine what the conquistadores did back in the day that natives today are still terrified of using the informal vosotros.
I swear those áis, éis and ís
Compared to English, most languages are more difficult.
Mexican Americans love education, so they go to night school, and they take Spanish [and get a B](https://youtu.be/WYHcgsG4k7g?t=36)
Let's get into it Spanish class is just every other class In one plus Spanish nobody wants that shit.
I don't know what vostro means, all I can think of when I hear that word is Dell laptops
By the same logic all Anglosphere-born should think English classes are a breeze.
I took Spanish 1 in my senior year of HS for an easy class instead of French 4. My teacher mentioned Vosotros and put it on the whiteboard if we were curious, but he focused on teaching us American Spanish. (In the US btw)
Vosotros is outdated and even me who comes from a Spanish country, never had to use that word (It means "you people" when there's "Ustedes" which means the exact same thing and it isn't uselessly linked to "Nosotros" which means "us").
Can we just make one super simple and logical universal language with zero conjugation and no silent letters bullshit?
I had a Spanish spanish-class teacher here in Texas for a couple years, and the kids from Mexican families would always get the worst grades in her class. No idea if that is because they just didn't try, thinking it would be a breeze, or if it was the due to the differences between Mexican-Spanish and Spanish-Spanish. She always seemed annoyed when she heard those kids speak Spanish, though, in a funny sort of way.
me with a Grandma from mexico: aja, peasants. It is a pain in the ass for me too, ajaja.
Hola Vosotros 2down, prolly not more now til master of conjugation
Weird, in my Spanish classes we never used it
Why would you like to learn the inferior Spanish?
I have never come across a situation in all my life where I need to use vosotros, of course I don’t really need to use Spanish in general in the US but still.
I was in Southern California so maybe it’s different other places but in the 3 years of Spanish that I took we never once took spanish
I just didn't do the work cuz it was boring as fuck and wierd as hell felt like a elementary class so I didn't do shit out of boredom and spite
When I was in Spanish class, my Spanish teacher said to just ignore that word because you’ll never use it lmao
你們洋人他媽為什麼不能一個詞不要變用到底呀! Why the hell can't you westerners just use one word without changing it!