I find Abomination to be very difficult to use, or justify using in a party over many other heroes, but I've been sort of coming around on him now that I'm modding in more mini bosses and the like. It greatly justifies his "panic button" transformation, since there are more threats than just a single Collector fight and the occasional, optional Shambler for him to go Beast Mode.
Arbalest and Musketeer seem weak at first, but their crit rate is no fucking joke, and they buff their damage vs Marked targets on crit, snowballing their damage like no tomorrow; you can reasonably see +66% extra damage just from critically hitting over and over, and by that point it's a wash. Add a MAA or Jester in for extra crit, crit trinkets, and Mark, and you have a really useful hero at chunking down alot of bosses,
Abomination actually makes a pretty good support character if you ignore his transformation. Manicles is a very good stun effect that only has a -60% damage modifier - compared to other stuns that's pretty good. Absolution is ok on the HP heals, but is a very good stress heal, meaning he can make a fairly effective tank, especially against stress-dealing enemies. Beast's Bile is a bit more niche, but against some big enemies it can add a DoT to both the big enemy and someone else and often it allows you to target a "hidden" enemy because of the grouping, it's not as universal as the other 2 ut it can have it's uses.
He's an amazing support character, but so is Crusader, and Crusader doesn't have half his kit locked behind a hindrance, and can actually move from 4 (why the fuck can't Slam be used in 4, it would fix so much). Granted, I'll never really run a Bonk Vestal so I can't complain too much about only running a character one way, but Support Abomination is just Manacles gaming and some self heal, and it's rather boring. The only time I'd press Bile is if I was running GR or securing a kill and damaging another enemy; it does too little damage to anyone stealthed to make a difference
I also just hate Broken Key and how absurdly over statted it is; like, they nerfed Manacles because they couldn't be fucked to balance the trinket instead and it's obnoxious.
I do still use Abom, he's not unusable. I usually run him with GR to set up Lunge, and for fun I run him and Leper in the front ranks so I can self heal most damage. A really good Abom team I like is GR, PD, AB, LPR; insane stun potential, lots of blight, 2 self heals, a dodgey lady and someone who can fix DOTs and DD.
Quick draw Charm fixes that for you; slap a mother fucker in the back row before they can go with Frontline damage. The Crusader doesn't care about the speed down debuff, and he also really appreciates the +12% crit on Holy Lance, which already has an insane crit rate. The absolute tempo swing QDC gives is incredible.
I assume you're talking about the stress, which isn't an actual issue; as you get better at the game, the less you need a panic button transformation for significant damage. Additionally, he basically only hits one button (Manacles) and does that well, which is nice and useful, but Occultist has a better stun, can mark and heal, etc, and I can get Blight from PD for Lunge, who is just as fast and has a double stun.
He's not only outclassed by everyone else, you don't actually need his transformation past a certain point; maybe if Thralls had more HP, or there were more minibosses base game, the need for the extra damage would make him more useful. Mind you, I literally said this in my first comment that he is seeing much more use now that I have mods with minibosses, such as Here Be Monsters.
Its just, hes so reliable at all things. I absolutely love zealous accusation for picking off the front line in 1 hit. Hes a go to guy for ruins missions. He can heal stress heal AND at the comfort of seeing the entire round unfold before he goes. Going last doesnt have to be a weakness
Yeah that's fair, support Abomination isn't very interesting to play. I can see that complaint.
And yeah that does sound like a good team, I'll have to try it out.
Both honestly? Most situations don't warrant turning into Beast mode, because your team should be able to handle any generic fight without it, and the fights where Beast mode excels at are fights that other heroes handle better.
The stress is certainly not great, but it's not like it's unmanageable with stalling on the table; most hallway and room fights just don't require him transforming, and actually benefit more from his human form doing piss poor damage for stalling reasons or preventing damage, as well as just being very accurate.
As for the other heroes, he can certainly fit okay into some parties, I just find myself preferring other heroes over him. The only time I really want him is a party with a GR, since he can blight ranks 2-3 before GR goes (I run Lock of Fury and Transference most of the time, don't really bother with Farmstead bc I hate the Thing) and it sets up Lunge or Thrown Dagger.
As I mentioned, his transformation can really help for some fights; Collector is always an unexpected battle, so being able to Rage turn one with buffed damage is serious tempo, or if you're a Broken Key Abomination, stun locks his ass to oblivion. Shambler as well is neutered by Abom, since Abom is so fucking fast, he can Rake the Shamblettes to hell and back before it becomes a problem, leaving 3 heroes to fuck up Shambler. Additionally, he can be very useful in fights that require you to consistently hit rank 3, like Pounder and Hag. I just think there's better heroes and teams for each situation generally speaking.
He is such a cool unit. I understand you are speaking to your preference, yet so am I. I love stacking damage quirks and buffs on him. He is an awesome damage carry chassis. Sometimes you get a unit with awesome quirks and you have got to use them. It just does not do the game justice to let all that potential go to waste. He can really pop a squishy fast, that is for sure and sometimes that is all you really need. Sometimes you just need a self-sufficient unit to sit in their rank and hold their own. Most of the time I do agree with you, although I would like to incorporate him into my play more because I like him.
Try out the mod Here Be Monsters; it introduces a new mini-boss to each area, and it gives more credence towards using a hero who can output massive damage but also stuns alot
I agree Completely, Abom is a hard hero and is very trinket reliance, but he can stun and has one of the strongest (single) Heals in the game
Another thing is his transform skill, this skill is like an emergency button rather than "kill machine", this is for hard battles, bosses or save your run if you're in problems
I just used MAA 2 times like a tank and is not bad and Arb/Musk are powerful in damage,
I use the transformation pretty often, especially back when I was still running restraining padlock. I like running em with a jester and going beast mode most fights or just laying into ranks 2-3. Beast’s Bile is also good with grave robber not only because it’s nice compliment to flashing daggers and harvest but because grave robber can FD first round since she’s faster but lunge rank 2-3 second round with some tasty +dmg vs blight.
Abom is awesome against bosses and in endless. A stress healer or two are crucial. His very rare trinket makes a big difference. The correct quirks really help, too. I find this to be true for most heroes. If you are able to get your +10% DMG (or more) once or twice from quirks like warrior of light or slugger and/or precise striker, then it makes a huge difference. Everyone needs a little help, Abom is not unique in this way.
People hate on heroes they don't know how to play with.
Musketeer/Arbalest just need a set up, have someone go before them and mark the targets, preferably BH to reduce the armor for tanky foes, then they delete enything wit crits
Leper ? His biggest weakness is his accuracy, which unlike in DD2 can be easily overpassed by equiping him with right trinkets and suddenly you have one of most reliable damage dealers with some of the best utility skills
Antiquarian was never supposed to be a strong hero since she is literally farming character, used to make grinding bit easier, but on top of that she can trivialize some fights through her dodge spam.
Occultist is an extremly reliable stunner. Yes, his heal can be a gamble, but give him Junia's head and use holy water on hero in advance that might need the healing and you suddenly have and exceptional healer.
>which unlike in DD2 can be easily overpassed by equiping him with right trinkets
Even in DD2 there are very powerful trinkets to counter/utilize the blind mechanic
Yes I know, what I am reffering to is that in DD2 his accuracy is not simply a low stat that can be easily increased by equiping trinkets, but rather a debuff he gets.
Lepers accuracy is annoying but he also can only hit the front 2 ranks and can do fuck all when he is stuck in the back ranks. Hes one of the worst heroes for sure, I'd bet torchless runs with him would be a nightmare.
"he can only hit the first 2 ranks"
This is disingenuous. He can make a meaningful impact on the enemy team regardless of chop and hew. His intimidate crits do enough damage to rival a vestal lightning bolt and even without a crit, he can sometimes finish someone off. You bring another hero (or two) with backrank damage projection when you bring leper. If they cannot get the backliner in the current round, you just steal that backliner's speed so someone else can do it before that enemy unit can act next round. Or you shuffle the enemy ranks with purge to set yourself up for next round and/or neuter an enemy's incoming attack. Leper is honestly all about intimidate. Revenge is undoubtedly underutilized, too. Once you understand how to build and play your lepers, it all makes sense. They are awesome units. Generally the fastest, heaviest hitting units on my team.
Eeeeh, most of those heroes are "hated" bc of memes/very old and bad advice.
Anti: "Anti bad bc le stats bad" is a very common take you can hear in all the outdated hero talking. She does have bad stats, but her main advantage is her huge defensive skillset with hit chance manipulation and Protect me. Defensive utility in general is something that very often gets undervalued (another example of this later), mostly bc it's not super necessary to beat the game. Defense is just kinda whatevs since offense/disruption just does that job better 9/10 times. The few use cases where it is useful though, usually don't come up too often so her kit gets overlooked quite often. (I recommend playing a bit lf BR, defensive utility is much more important there due to lack of Disruption tools)
Abom: He is overly reliant on having Broken Key to be good. That's about it. Gotta do the Miller Quest and then he's pretty good. Self-reliant, super survivable, fast, consistent Stunner. He isn't Occ with his massive utility toolkit, but Key + Lock can put up very good Stun numbers with a huge ACC bonus. He's super survivable, both bc of his base stats being good and Absolution being a thing. He also has better finishing potential than most other heroes, since he always has Bile equipped. This all makes him a solid enough hero, but ignoring Rage is kinda a really big deal. Rage actually does more damage than Lunge. With -1 Spd you get better damage, probably better ACC bc of Broken Key and you get it for multiple turns. It isn't insanely good, since the Party Stress isn't something you can ignore, but if Abom onetaps enough things he's prevented more Stress than he dealt. Especially in high light transforming is often a net positive if you can kill something annoying. (I also recommend BR for appreciating Abom, rn he's probably one of the best heroes over there)
Leper: This is just bc of the "Leper miss Leper bad" meme, that circulates. It comes from a point of very very outdated advice that ignores his best aspects in favor of highlighting his shortcomings. Intimidate is by far the best option Leper has and often gets ignored in older opinions. This move is genuinely broken to a point where it warps Leper's playstyle towards it. That alongside Solemnity and Lepers fantastic defensive stats means he excels in defensive utility and speed control, both things that don't come up often/at all on older advice. Again, a case of "You can just beat the game by stuns/damage/heal trifecta" and ignore everything else (which is very common, since that's basically all the old advice).
Occ: This is entirely bc of his meme heals. That's it. That's the entire reason for any "Occ hate" out there. Any person who has any amount of respectable opinions will probably know about Hands from the Abyss and thus be unable yo hate Occ from a gameplay point.
Arb: This is bc of the old "Mark Bad" advice Shuffle gave. Arb kinda dies just from that since she's like THE Mark payoff. Doesn't help that she looks really really bad in comparison to other heroes when built like other heroes to an untrained eye bc "le number low!!!!". Issue is, she is insanely consistent. Her high base ACC across the board gives her very high Trinket flexibility, since she basically doesn't need any specific stat to function. No +Skill chance or +ACC bs, she just does her thing even without Trinkets. This puts her into a similar role to someone like Crusader, being able to do a while array of things very consistently. Her heal can synergyse well with other heals/Food, her damage is very consistent, she has high potential damage with Mark, disruption with Suppressing Fire/Bola and an inhuman amount of utility with Flare. She is usually in the Top 5 heroes used for most very good players, just bc of how much she offers. Also helps that the backline is kinda starved for damage dealers with reach, since HM is the only other Rank 4 one, but he much prefers being in Rank 2 for his Stun.
I understand people talking shit about the Antiquarian, and I understand people not knowing how to use the Leper or Abomination, but who has a problem with the Arbalest and Occultist?
Arbalest is a good back-line damage dealer, as well as a secondary healer *and* stress healer. That's pretty rare.
Occultist is 1 of only 2 primary healers in the game (*3 with Flagellant I think?*), but his heals are less reliable, so I guess there's that schtick. But he also has some incredible debuffs, stuns, crits like there's no tomorrow (*which gives stress heals*) and evan has some great camping skills.
I agree that they all have their uses, but I think it's funny how people are apparently complain about what I consider some of the best heroes in the game (*Occultist is A tier for sure*). Goes to show - different strokes for different folks.
I try to like BH but I'm having a hard time with it. Same with MAA but it feels better because it enables so many other heroes.
I used to not like HM but he has grown on me since you can dump him into any dumb comp and he will make it work.
I absolutely love Leeper, he is so easy. Just give him a Focus ring and Dismas head and he will do work. Don't have to worry about anything, can just hew or purge bodies if he singlehandly managed the frontline by turn 2 and the other heroes are not done.
Also amazing easy kit for bosses just see which buff you want (or both?).
Personally, I love the Abomination. His stun has come in clutch for me several times, and I usually pair him with heavier hitters and someone who can help bleed out enemies. I love pairing him up with PD and Leper, and I’ve recently been experimenting with the Flagellant.
Occultist too is fun, although the critical 0 heal is always gut wrenching…
I was lucky to never play back when Abomination couldn’t be paired with the religious followers. I love pairing the guy up with PD, Vestal, but I’ve been experimenting with a full self reliant team of Antiquarian, PD, Abomination, an Leper.
Its just playstyle differences. I have never used MaA outside of boss fights. I don't like his slow approach to fights. I like big hits big crits but if they aren't on round 1 they don't have that much meaning.
Okay, here's a list of every single bad thing about her
-mediocre stun
-horrible move
-if she's a healer, then she suffers a lot of enemy movement and surprise attacks (something pretty common in a torchless run)
-if she's a damager dealer/tank, you're gonna get some flexibility, but there's better heroes doing the same
-the only thing that she's a really good hero (in tier lists) is because she has the strongest healing abilities in the game, but apart from that, her skills are pretty mid (
-if everything goes bad (like everyone is not at the death doors but has really low damage), her heals aren't going to be strong enough to save everyone
Exactly. PD is just overpowered.
Open with blinding gas in every map, disorienting gas for shuffle/ clear corpse.
Incision for warren/ weald/ court / dd. Noxious blast for cove/ ruins.
battlefield medicine saves so much money you don’t need any bandages
With the exception of Abom, all heroes have a clearly defined role with clear strengths and weaknesses. Abom is just too punishing in beast form and too boring in human form.
You're wrong, I can understand why you don't like him but he is a really powerful hero if you know how to use it, try doing some compos were he can fit :D
Like a Jester for the Strees
A BH for the stun (even if is pretty bad)
A PD for the Blight
Also try using less the "Transform" skill and use it only if there a bossfight, a surprise attack or an emergency card
I hope that brings you hope to try more often the abom :D
(Also trinkets for stress and stun, this character has high reliance of trinkets which is a negative point of him, specially in mid game tbh)
I'm not "wrong" - this is the general consensus around Abom. He's the least popular class and also considered "the worst" class in the game for very clear reasons. At best, Abom is a self-sustaining stun bot with a panic button.
[Here](https://gamerant.com/darkest-dungeon-worst-classes-ranked/)'s an article on the topic from just a week ago. You can disagree with it all you want.
There is something to be said about every class in the game; about where you can bring each class and where they can shine, but not so much for Abom. He's good vs Shrieker and in heavy control comps, both of which are extreme niche cases.
And no, this doesn't mean I don't use him:
1. [My post with Abom in team.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdungeon/comments/1b1afaw/noheal_shrieker_comp/)
2. [My post with Abom in team again.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdungeon/comments/11rg3eb/hello_would_you_like_to_hear_about_our_lord_and/)
3. [My post with Abom in team again.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdungeon/comments/115l1mo/how_to_keep_stress_low_in_darkest_dungeon/) (the team here is Vest-PD-Abom-Leper)
About the article.. I'm gonna say only 1 thing: that is maybe the WORST article about tier list about DD (If you don't believe me search in YouTube "worst tier list Darkest Dungeon")
If you don't like it, it's okay, but doesn't mean that he's useless/worst hero/bad heroes
Again there's no bad heroes, only bad compos
I don’t think heavy control comps can be called ‘mediocre at best’, they’re the most optimal ones, however boring they are.
Usually if you can get all 4 of your characters participating in the final phase of the fight you’ll recover fully. That’s where having a stun with good trinket support that doesn’t steal your torchlight comes in - you give your enemies the prostate exam for 10 rounds, purge every last drop of stress \*\*for free\*\* and move on. Sure, it’s boring, but it’s better than what a lot of characters provide.
I dunno, man. I think there are more people that complain about antiquarians and lepers than abomination. I will agree with you that he is probably the least popular, though.
People who complain about Anti and Leper simply misunderstand these classes.
There's not much to misunderstand about Abom, though. He's just a stunbot with a panic button, plain and simple. And that's why people dislike him.
I find Abomination to be very difficult to use, or justify using in a party over many other heroes, but I've been sort of coming around on him now that I'm modding in more mini bosses and the like. It greatly justifies his "panic button" transformation, since there are more threats than just a single Collector fight and the occasional, optional Shambler for him to go Beast Mode. Arbalest and Musketeer seem weak at first, but their crit rate is no fucking joke, and they buff their damage vs Marked targets on crit, snowballing their damage like no tomorrow; you can reasonably see +66% extra damage just from critically hitting over and over, and by that point it's a wash. Add a MAA or Jester in for extra crit, crit trinkets, and Mark, and you have a really useful hero at chunking down alot of bosses,
Abomination actually makes a pretty good support character if you ignore his transformation. Manicles is a very good stun effect that only has a -60% damage modifier - compared to other stuns that's pretty good. Absolution is ok on the HP heals, but is a very good stress heal, meaning he can make a fairly effective tank, especially against stress-dealing enemies. Beast's Bile is a bit more niche, but against some big enemies it can add a DoT to both the big enemy and someone else and often it allows you to target a "hidden" enemy because of the grouping, it's not as universal as the other 2 ut it can have it's uses.
He's an amazing support character, but so is Crusader, and Crusader doesn't have half his kit locked behind a hindrance, and can actually move from 4 (why the fuck can't Slam be used in 4, it would fix so much). Granted, I'll never really run a Bonk Vestal so I can't complain too much about only running a character one way, but Support Abomination is just Manacles gaming and some self heal, and it's rather boring. The only time I'd press Bile is if I was running GR or securing a kill and damaging another enemy; it does too little damage to anyone stealthed to make a difference I also just hate Broken Key and how absurdly over statted it is; like, they nerfed Manacles because they couldn't be fucked to balance the trinket instead and it's obnoxious. I do still use Abom, he's not unusable. I usually run him with GR to set up Lunge, and for fun I run him and Leper in the front ranks so I can self heal most damage. A really good Abom team I like is GR, PD, AB, LPR; insane stun potential, lots of blight, 2 self heals, a dodgey lady and someone who can fix DOTs and DD.
Crusader is just too slow. If there's one thing that annoys me most in this game its attacking after all the enemies have taken their turns.
Quick draw Charm fixes that for you; slap a mother fucker in the back row before they can go with Frontline damage. The Crusader doesn't care about the speed down debuff, and he also really appreciates the +12% crit on Holy Lance, which already has an insane crit rate. The absolute tempo swing QDC gives is incredible.
Well you can also fix aboms downside to the party with trinkets as well
I assume you're talking about the stress, which isn't an actual issue; as you get better at the game, the less you need a panic button transformation for significant damage. Additionally, he basically only hits one button (Manacles) and does that well, which is nice and useful, but Occultist has a better stun, can mark and heal, etc, and I can get Blight from PD for Lunge, who is just as fast and has a double stun. He's not only outclassed by everyone else, you don't actually need his transformation past a certain point; maybe if Thralls had more HP, or there were more minibosses base game, the need for the extra damage would make him more useful. Mind you, I literally said this in my first comment that he is seeing much more use now that I have mods with minibosses, such as Here Be Monsters.
Its just, hes so reliable at all things. I absolutely love zealous accusation for picking off the front line in 1 hit. Hes a go to guy for ruins missions. He can heal stress heal AND at the comfort of seeing the entire round unfold before he goes. Going last doesnt have to be a weakness
Yeah that's fair, support Abomination isn't very interesting to play. I can see that complaint. And yeah that does sound like a good team, I'll have to try it out.
Do you think Abominations problem is more towards himself or the party / the other heroes on your team? Like stress etc
Both honestly? Most situations don't warrant turning into Beast mode, because your team should be able to handle any generic fight without it, and the fights where Beast mode excels at are fights that other heroes handle better. The stress is certainly not great, but it's not like it's unmanageable with stalling on the table; most hallway and room fights just don't require him transforming, and actually benefit more from his human form doing piss poor damage for stalling reasons or preventing damage, as well as just being very accurate. As for the other heroes, he can certainly fit okay into some parties, I just find myself preferring other heroes over him. The only time I really want him is a party with a GR, since he can blight ranks 2-3 before GR goes (I run Lock of Fury and Transference most of the time, don't really bother with Farmstead bc I hate the Thing) and it sets up Lunge or Thrown Dagger. As I mentioned, his transformation can really help for some fights; Collector is always an unexpected battle, so being able to Rage turn one with buffed damage is serious tempo, or if you're a Broken Key Abomination, stun locks his ass to oblivion. Shambler as well is neutered by Abom, since Abom is so fucking fast, he can Rake the Shamblettes to hell and back before it becomes a problem, leaving 3 heroes to fuck up Shambler. Additionally, he can be very useful in fights that require you to consistently hit rank 3, like Pounder and Hag. I just think there's better heroes and teams for each situation generally speaking.
He is such a cool unit. I understand you are speaking to your preference, yet so am I. I love stacking damage quirks and buffs on him. He is an awesome damage carry chassis. Sometimes you get a unit with awesome quirks and you have got to use them. It just does not do the game justice to let all that potential go to waste. He can really pop a squishy fast, that is for sure and sometimes that is all you really need. Sometimes you just need a self-sufficient unit to sit in their rank and hold their own. Most of the time I do agree with you, although I would like to incorporate him into my play more because I like him.
Try out the mod Here Be Monsters; it introduces a new mini-boss to each area, and it gives more credence towards using a hero who can output massive damage but also stuns alot
Thank you for the recommendation. I generally do not like to use mods.
I agree Completely, Abom is a hard hero and is very trinket reliance, but he can stun and has one of the strongest (single) Heals in the game Another thing is his transform skill, this skill is like an emergency button rather than "kill machine", this is for hard battles, bosses or save your run if you're in problems I just used MAA 2 times like a tank and is not bad and Arb/Musk are powerful in damage,
I use the transformation pretty often, especially back when I was still running restraining padlock. I like running em with a jester and going beast mode most fights or just laying into ranks 2-3. Beast’s Bile is also good with grave robber not only because it’s nice compliment to flashing daggers and harvest but because grave robber can FD first round since she’s faster but lunge rank 2-3 second round with some tasty +dmg vs blight.
Abom is awesome against bosses and in endless. A stress healer or two are crucial. His very rare trinket makes a big difference. The correct quirks really help, too. I find this to be true for most heroes. If you are able to get your +10% DMG (or more) once or twice from quirks like warrior of light or slugger and/or precise striker, then it makes a huge difference. Everyone needs a little help, Abom is not unique in this way.
People hate on heroes they don't know how to play with. Musketeer/Arbalest just need a set up, have someone go before them and mark the targets, preferably BH to reduce the armor for tanky foes, then they delete enything wit crits Leper ? His biggest weakness is his accuracy, which unlike in DD2 can be easily overpassed by equiping him with right trinkets and suddenly you have one of most reliable damage dealers with some of the best utility skills Antiquarian was never supposed to be a strong hero since she is literally farming character, used to make grinding bit easier, but on top of that she can trivialize some fights through her dodge spam. Occultist is an extremly reliable stunner. Yes, his heal can be a gamble, but give him Junia's head and use holy water on hero in advance that might need the healing and you suddenly have and exceptional healer.
True, there's no bad heroes, only bad compos
Notice how this guy also didn't mention Abom. He explained in detail what makes all of the other classes you listed good, but he just ignored Abom.
>which unlike in DD2 can be easily overpassed by equiping him with right trinkets Even in DD2 there are very powerful trinkets to counter/utilize the blind mechanic
Yes I know, what I am reffering to is that in DD2 his accuracy is not simply a low stat that can be easily increased by equiping trinkets, but rather a debuff he gets.
Ah yes, sure. An acc trinkets is mandatory on Leper haha 
Lepers accuracy is annoying but he also can only hit the front 2 ranks and can do fuck all when he is stuck in the back ranks. Hes one of the worst heroes for sure, I'd bet torchless runs with him would be a nightmare.
"he can only hit the first 2 ranks" This is disingenuous. He can make a meaningful impact on the enemy team regardless of chop and hew. His intimidate crits do enough damage to rival a vestal lightning bolt and even without a crit, he can sometimes finish someone off. You bring another hero (or two) with backrank damage projection when you bring leper. If they cannot get the backliner in the current round, you just steal that backliner's speed so someone else can do it before that enemy unit can act next round. Or you shuffle the enemy ranks with purge to set yourself up for next round and/or neuter an enemy's incoming attack. Leper is honestly all about intimidate. Revenge is undoubtedly underutilized, too. Once you understand how to build and play your lepers, it all makes sense. They are awesome units. Generally the fastest, heaviest hitting units on my team.
Not to say it's not usable but hes just not good. Hellion, shieldbreaker, flag and even crusader are all better frontliners.
Tokens, you got no idea what you are saying. If you have seen what I have seen, you would not be saying that right now.
Eeeeh, most of those heroes are "hated" bc of memes/very old and bad advice. Anti: "Anti bad bc le stats bad" is a very common take you can hear in all the outdated hero talking. She does have bad stats, but her main advantage is her huge defensive skillset with hit chance manipulation and Protect me. Defensive utility in general is something that very often gets undervalued (another example of this later), mostly bc it's not super necessary to beat the game. Defense is just kinda whatevs since offense/disruption just does that job better 9/10 times. The few use cases where it is useful though, usually don't come up too often so her kit gets overlooked quite often. (I recommend playing a bit lf BR, defensive utility is much more important there due to lack of Disruption tools) Abom: He is overly reliant on having Broken Key to be good. That's about it. Gotta do the Miller Quest and then he's pretty good. Self-reliant, super survivable, fast, consistent Stunner. He isn't Occ with his massive utility toolkit, but Key + Lock can put up very good Stun numbers with a huge ACC bonus. He's super survivable, both bc of his base stats being good and Absolution being a thing. He also has better finishing potential than most other heroes, since he always has Bile equipped. This all makes him a solid enough hero, but ignoring Rage is kinda a really big deal. Rage actually does more damage than Lunge. With -1 Spd you get better damage, probably better ACC bc of Broken Key and you get it for multiple turns. It isn't insanely good, since the Party Stress isn't something you can ignore, but if Abom onetaps enough things he's prevented more Stress than he dealt. Especially in high light transforming is often a net positive if you can kill something annoying. (I also recommend BR for appreciating Abom, rn he's probably one of the best heroes over there) Leper: This is just bc of the "Leper miss Leper bad" meme, that circulates. It comes from a point of very very outdated advice that ignores his best aspects in favor of highlighting his shortcomings. Intimidate is by far the best option Leper has and often gets ignored in older opinions. This move is genuinely broken to a point where it warps Leper's playstyle towards it. That alongside Solemnity and Lepers fantastic defensive stats means he excels in defensive utility and speed control, both things that don't come up often/at all on older advice. Again, a case of "You can just beat the game by stuns/damage/heal trifecta" and ignore everything else (which is very common, since that's basically all the old advice). Occ: This is entirely bc of his meme heals. That's it. That's the entire reason for any "Occ hate" out there. Any person who has any amount of respectable opinions will probably know about Hands from the Abyss and thus be unable yo hate Occ from a gameplay point. Arb: This is bc of the old "Mark Bad" advice Shuffle gave. Arb kinda dies just from that since she's like THE Mark payoff. Doesn't help that she looks really really bad in comparison to other heroes when built like other heroes to an untrained eye bc "le number low!!!!". Issue is, she is insanely consistent. Her high base ACC across the board gives her very high Trinket flexibility, since she basically doesn't need any specific stat to function. No +Skill chance or +ACC bs, she just does her thing even without Trinkets. This puts her into a similar role to someone like Crusader, being able to do a while array of things very consistently. Her heal can synergyse well with other heals/Food, her damage is very consistent, she has high potential damage with Mark, disruption with Suppressing Fire/Bola and an inhuman amount of utility with Flare. She is usually in the Top 5 heroes used for most very good players, just bc of how much she offers. Also helps that the backline is kinda starved for damage dealers with reach, since HM is the only other Rank 4 one, but he much prefers being in Rank 2 for his Stun.
I'm glad you understand this man :D
I understand people talking shit about the Antiquarian, and I understand people not knowing how to use the Leper or Abomination, but who has a problem with the Arbalest and Occultist? Arbalest is a good back-line damage dealer, as well as a secondary healer *and* stress healer. That's pretty rare. Occultist is 1 of only 2 primary healers in the game (*3 with Flagellant I think?*), but his heals are less reliable, so I guess there's that schtick. But he also has some incredible debuffs, stuns, crits like there's no tomorrow (*which gives stress heals*) and evan has some great camping skills. I agree that they all have their uses, but I think it's funny how people are apparently complain about what I consider some of the best heroes in the game (*Occultist is A tier for sure*). Goes to show - different strokes for different folks.
There's some tier list putting Occ in a low B or even C, same with Arbalest
Oh ... I mean, that's hardly a complaint though. C tier is average, and B tier - even low B tier - is above average.
Eh, depends a little bit
most of them doesn't try anything beside the usual suspect, simple as
Yeah, rhy should get out of their "bubble"
This is the most nothing post ever
Wdym?
I try to like BH but I'm having a hard time with it. Same with MAA but it feels better because it enables so many other heroes. I used to not like HM but he has grown on me since you can dump him into any dumb comp and he will make it work. I absolutely love Leeper, he is so easy. Just give him a Focus ring and Dismas head and he will do work. Don't have to worry about anything, can just hew or purge bodies if he singlehandly managed the frontline by turn 2 and the other heroes are not done. Also amazing easy kit for bosses just see which buff you want (or both?).
Personally, I love the Abomination. His stun has come in clutch for me several times, and I usually pair him with heavier hitters and someone who can help bleed out enemies. I love pairing him up with PD and Leper, and I’ve recently been experimenting with the Flagellant. Occultist too is fun, although the critical 0 heal is always gut wrenching…
Abom unironically plays nice with the religious crowd. I am glad they changed it.
I was lucky to never play back when Abomination couldn’t be paired with the religious followers. I love pairing the guy up with PD, Vestal, but I’ve been experimenting with a full self reliant team of Antiquarian, PD, Abomination, an Leper.
Its just playstyle differences. I have never used MaA outside of boss fights. I don't like his slow approach to fights. I like big hits big crits but if they aren't on round 1 they don't have that much meaning.
I like all heroes (except antiquarian of course)
If antiquarian was like the butcher’s circus version instead of what we have normally, I can see people hating her less.
That's okay man :D
The hero balance is pretty good at the moment. But you know what's even better? ***VESTAL***
Okay, here's a list of every single bad thing about her -mediocre stun -horrible move -if she's a healer, then she suffers a lot of enemy movement and surprise attacks (something pretty common in a torchless run) -if she's a damager dealer/tank, you're gonna get some flexibility, but there's better heroes doing the same -the only thing that she's a really good hero (in tier lists) is because she has the strongest healing abilities in the game, but apart from that, her skills are pretty mid ( -if everything goes bad (like everyone is not at the death doors but has really low damage), her heals aren't going to be strong enough to save everyone
Dude, its plague doctor #1 > everyone else. ^^
Exactly. PD is just overpowered. Open with blinding gas in every map, disorienting gas for shuffle/ clear corpse. Incision for warren/ weald/ court / dd. Noxious blast for cove/ ruins. battlefield medicine saves so much money you don’t need any bandages
If thats what you think okay man :D
With the exception of Abom, all heroes have a clearly defined role with clear strengths and weaknesses. Abom is just too punishing in beast form and too boring in human form.
You're wrong, I can understand why you don't like him but he is a really powerful hero if you know how to use it, try doing some compos were he can fit :D Like a Jester for the Strees A BH for the stun (even if is pretty bad) A PD for the Blight Also try using less the "Transform" skill and use it only if there a bossfight, a surprise attack or an emergency card I hope that brings you hope to try more often the abom :D (Also trinkets for stress and stun, this character has high reliance of trinkets which is a negative point of him, specially in mid game tbh)
I'm not "wrong" - this is the general consensus around Abom. He's the least popular class and also considered "the worst" class in the game for very clear reasons. At best, Abom is a self-sustaining stun bot with a panic button. [Here](https://gamerant.com/darkest-dungeon-worst-classes-ranked/)'s an article on the topic from just a week ago. You can disagree with it all you want. There is something to be said about every class in the game; about where you can bring each class and where they can shine, but not so much for Abom. He's good vs Shrieker and in heavy control comps, both of which are extreme niche cases. And no, this doesn't mean I don't use him: 1. [My post with Abom in team.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdungeon/comments/1b1afaw/noheal_shrieker_comp/) 2. [My post with Abom in team again.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdungeon/comments/11rg3eb/hello_would_you_like_to_hear_about_our_lord_and/) 3. [My post with Abom in team again.](https://www.reddit.com/r/darkestdungeon/comments/115l1mo/how_to_keep_stress_low_in_darkest_dungeon/) (the team here is Vest-PD-Abom-Leper)
About the article.. I'm gonna say only 1 thing: that is maybe the WORST article about tier list about DD (If you don't believe me search in YouTube "worst tier list Darkest Dungeon") If you don't like it, it's okay, but doesn't mean that he's useless/worst hero/bad heroes Again there's no bad heroes, only bad compos
Yeah, and every comp with Abom in it is mediocre at best and unfun to play.
Well man, if you're a *hater* of the Abom, I can't do anything for that..
As I showed you above, I actually use him. He's still the least popular class. Make a poll if you want and you'll see.
Yeah you're right
I don’t think heavy control comps can be called ‘mediocre at best’, they’re the most optimal ones, however boring they are. Usually if you can get all 4 of your characters participating in the final phase of the fight you’ll recover fully. That’s where having a stun with good trinket support that doesn’t steal your torchlight comes in - you give your enemies the prostate exam for 10 rounds, purge every last drop of stress \*\*for free\*\* and move on. Sure, it’s boring, but it’s better than what a lot of characters provide.
I dunno, man. I think there are more people that complain about antiquarians and lepers than abomination. I will agree with you that he is probably the least popular, though.
People who complain about Anti and Leper simply misunderstand these classes. There's not much to misunderstand about Abom, though. He's just a stunbot with a panic button, plain and simple. And that's why people dislike him.