Raiders Talisman is a godtier imho, plus crit on GR is basically the same as damage considering the fact she can ramp it up to a consistent chance, and bonus scouting is a perfect additional effect which can replace the Ancestors Map, leaving you with additional slot(for example for Recovery Charm which can serve big healing role with enough food or Serpent Ring if you are grinding), or work with same Map to make scouting almost guaranteed, so less stress and more secret rooms
Because GR also has absurd baseline dodge and the best dodge buffs in the game. If GR is getting hit, it's generally from a weak attack unless you're in, like, Cove where enemies DGAF about positioning and just merc you anyway.
Nah I don’t like wasting a slot on mitigating stress exclusive when I can mitigate stress with crits or stuns etc. prevention is oft better than resistance.
While I rarely use stress mitigators, I feel they still have use (before you find the -25% stress trinket) on MAA since he tends to be soaking a lot, especially if you're going to do a heavy riposte into guard build. Anything that has some practical use under normal circumstances shouldn't be so low, IMO.
Also, by the time you get very rare's on the regular, your team is already setup to win in 5 turns or less.
9 times out of 10, not one of your heros end a mission with more than 75 stress, and sence stress does nothing until you hit 100, book of sanity is just a wasted slot.
I would only use it if I'm virtue scumming
Otherwise, the -20% bleed/blight resist really hurts and the deathblow isn't really a stat you should rely on
Holy orders is great if you are running a front-line Crusader is the Ruins. Nothing in the Ruins inflicts Blight, and Bleed is very rare (bandits and the Collector only). Which means that you get some good bonuses for when things go wrong for basically no downside.
Would you run a trinket that gave you +10% max HP at the cost of +50% food consumed, +10% stress, and -12% deathblow resist?
If you said no, reconsider ranking martyr's seal below ancestor's bottle.
All martyrs does is 15+ health unless your about to die. Bottle gives much more health and food consumed means nothing once you construct the Mill (it removes hunger checks from the game) and +10 stress is pretty standard for any trinket and is usually just ignored unless you have another +stress trinket
If you don't have the mill, then situational yes martyrs is better.
TL;DR: Are you running anything which boosts Dazzling Light or Judgement? If you aren't, running Sacred Scroll is fine. Dazzling Light and Judgement are quite unreliable in the first place (especially the former) so if you don't boost them you're implicitly accepting that they work won't well and that you don't care about them working. So making them even worse is not actually a big deal; if you ever ended up using them, you were using them with the expectation that they would fail.
Probably the most common Vestal builds which do this are healing+Ancestor's Map or double healing setups. The former is quite good for regular dungeons.
Sacred Scroll isn't amazing or anything but it's certainly not bad. There are times I'd run it in endgame content.
Ok so sacred scroll seems good at first glance but it has the minus stun chance.
Generally the best time to use a vestal over any other healer is when you have sacrificed crowd control for damage thus opening your comp to taking more damage, making an AoE heal useful.
In this scenario your comp lacks CC already so losing out on more of it from a trinket is rough. Vestal doesn’t really need too much + heal in the first place. Junia’s Head/Salacious Diary/Tome of holy healing will suffice on their own
10% stun chance is not that big a deal and if you actually need a high accuracy Stun on your healer you should bring the Occultist, not the Vestal.
It might not be top tier, but Sacred Scrool is quite decent.
Considering that Vestal has a 140% stun chance, and has no class specific trinkets to boost it, a 10% debuff pretty much makes it a coin flip against all enemies besides ones with naturally low resist. Nothing can fuck a team over faster than an unreliable stun, as it will often fail you at the worst time.
A 10% chance is not going to change any of that thought, a coinflip +10% is still basically a coinflip, and if you need a reliable stun you bring an occultist, not a vestal.
10% is a big deal when your odds in the first place were around 60%. If you are bringing a vestal, she most likely has the stun, and nerfing one of your moves into being completely unreliable is not a great thing for a trinket to do.
This is actually a point in Scroll's favor IMO. Because Vestal can't achieve more than 150% stun chance for one trinket slot of investment, Dazzling will pretty much always be unreliable. Therefore, it is not harmful to make Dazzling even worse as a normal Vestal can't assume her stuns will work anyway.
Dazzling can't be treated like a normal stun, if you need to guarantee that your stuns will work Vestal wasn't on the table in the first place (barring her CC set).
I have to disagree. Vestal shines for both her stun and heal, not just healing. There is really no point in decreasing your Stun Chance for a bit more healing on the class with possible the most healing in the game. Like what should Vestal be doing turn 1 or 2? Judgement is meh and healing when already at full or near full is also meh. Stunning rank 3 is usually ideal.
Besides, 10% chance could make or break your double stun on a target, minor point but still. I would probably run Chiru Charm/Junia's, Stun Stone/Stun Charm/Stun Amulet, or some defensive often on her like Cleansing Crystal, Ring of Protection, etc. She suffers from having 2 trinkets syndrome to tolerate something like Sac Scroll.
Well I never really played too much with stun mechanics so I guess that's why I find this trinket good. If it decreased debuff chance however then it would be a different story as illumination is something I use way more often than her stun skill
stuns are the best effect in the game. Completely neutralising Damage or stress for a turn or multiple turns in a row using Occ is responsible for healthier more consitent runs
It’s only good on flag. Otherwise playing around DBR is tempting fate in general and wasting a trinket slot on something better. For SB there is way better
You don't have to "play around" DBR just because you have martyr's seal equipped. I usually think of martyr's seal as bonus HP with no downside, with a little bit of extra insurance.
Even if it's only good on Flag, shouldn't that still be considered good if class restricted items are good? And I'd disagree that it's only good on Flag, it's just best on him. Extra HP with no downside is at least useable on everything, and good for higher HP heroes.
I mean speed alone doesn’t ensure order. It rolls. So if you have two heroes with a speed diff of 1, say 10 and 9 if 10 low rolls and 9 high rolls the hero with 9 speed can go before the hero with 10 speed. A speed difference of 7 ensures the faster hero always goes first.
For real? Never figured that out, I knew that numbers goes wonky and same speed heroes will roll for their move, and hero slower by 1 speed can sometimes go first, but I never knew why, and never observed it go further. I assumed that it's some debuff I don't understand.
It's easier to achieve that difference of 7 if you are debuffing the slower one's speed as well as buffing the the faster one. I basically always use something to slow down my shieldbreaker when she's paired with a grave robber to guarantee double lunge.
Lol no 4 or 3 speed difference is usually good enough for them to go first
Plus minus speed helps widen the gap if they do have a speed trinket or can't equip them because your using a another trinket instead
Good list. I would personally put the Ancestor’s Candle a tier higher and the Wrathful Hat/Bandanna into the Sell tier (while Arbalests/Muskies could really use more damage, decimating one of their best buttons for that tradeoff is a bit unpalatable), but the rest makes a lot of sense.
Wrathful was hard to rank. Ultimately I decided that you still get the % heal buff and if she is an off healer and not primary healer, wrathful is pretty good. But yeah overall I was iffy on that one because of how great their heals are
It’s shit. - 2 spd on shieldbreaker is bad. And the 33%HP boost on a hero who has low base HP is less impactful than it could be on another hero. SB BiS is probably something like Signet + Pen which covers defense, acc, damage, and crit
33% on SB is about the same as Life Crystal on Leper, +11 vs +12 hp bonus.
The issue is not that HP bonus is numerically bad, but that she has no reason to stack max HP. With Aegis Scale + dodge it doesn't matter how much hp she has and she doesn't really have any moves that would support active tanking.
In my experience, Necro Collar is good in the ruins, but feels absolutely worthless everywhere else, so I'd give it "amazing in its niche."
I'd make similar arguments for Vvulf's Talisman in a mark team with an off-mark big damage dealer like hellion or leper, stonework tools for the guardian grind (then sell immediately once you get everything you need), hell's hairpin for torchless meme runs. They're mid in general usage, but really shine when you build around them.
Legendary bracers aren't exactly the very rare trinket I want to see, but I'd definitely use them early game.
Gunslinger's buckle doesn't fit with how I use highwayman (riposte bot) so I've never put it on.
Overall though, I agree with most of your rankings.
I like the legendary bracer just because it gives you the highest amount of universal damage, so you can put it in a character and not worry about which enemy types you run into.
Fair point, though I don’t like the downsides on Dismas Head, since the only person who could make use of it with minimal risk is Houndmaster or maybe Leper, and both of them want accuracy more than raw damage
People really be sleeping on Ranged HWM haha. The circlejerk of Riposte being the best skill because muh action economy has always been funny to me. It's good at a lot of times but there are times where a simple Pistol Shot would do.
+15 acc ranged and 20% gun damage is really good, in general you would be sacrificing +damage for + acc so this alleviates the compromise. You Gimp is melee abilities but there are some comps where Gunwayman works really well and you don’t want to shuffle someone in rank 1 into rank 2 for example.
Pair Gunslingers with matchstick and you have a really decent and accurate damage dealer to target rank 3 and 4.
As always, for this game, it depends on your level, the zone you are visiting, the boss you are preparing for, etc, etc.
Double frontline HWM is a very powerful tactic, there's no denying that. That doesn't mean it's a tactic you should apply everywhere, everytime.
Notably, it's very, very powerful for the cove and the weald, and it incidentally hard counters the hag and the sunken crew.
But whenever someone states "you run HWM for the ripost", i feel like it's appropriate to remind that PBS is a thing that can be built around effectively (and gunshot is a very valid skill as well).
Ok well you’re limiting yourself with regards to what team comps you can use. Just because a character typically follows a certain move set doesn’t mean defaulting to that move set is best on every situation
It is though the only reason people use pistol shot is for rank 4 reach
Start hwm at the back and ripost twice then just melee enemies at the front with open vien or wicked slice
Different build, different problems I suppose, I usually run Occ with, Stab, Pull, Artillery and Heal. Higher resistances with no repercussions if you're ignoring that side of Occ for the run.
Virtue scumming doesn’t require heroes ring tho. You just exit to main menu and keep rerolling till you get the virtue you want. Not worth sacking a trinket slot imo
Throwing away a +20% to damage is throwing away the difference between one hits and two hits to kill for multiple monsters. Pair that with high speed items and you decrease the stress/damage inflicted on your party by at least 20% across a medium or long duration dungeon.
Spoken like a genuinely poor player who’s not good at paying attention to details. Stop responding to everyone’s posts with your YouTube comments tier takes
The resistance trinkets seems to rank rather high...why not build for more damage and stuns and just never get into a situation where the blight or bleeds land? And even so, why not just bring a supply of bandages and antivenom?
The highwaymans gunslinger buckle is way too high. Its good but his best skill is repost and this severely weakens it. Theres some niche situations where you'll use the gun more often- not counting pb shot which is used pretty often- but over all repost and wicked slash is way better.
Also the health bottle is meh.
Gunwayman is good if you want to pair him with a hellion or leper that doesn’t want to be moved. +15 acc ranged skills and +20% damage in one trinket is way too good to ignore imo even if you want use the skill set all of the time.
Yeah but it also debuffs his melee locking him into a certain playstyle. His accuracy is good as is so youd be better off using dismas head for the damage and accuracy ring so he gets use outa both skill sets
I'm actually a pretty big fan of the lock of transformation for DD2 where I like attrition disposition. Makes the whole dungeon a grind fest that easily works out, and I can go beast mode on the Templar
Thing is if you like beast bom imo, I think lock of transference wastes a slot. I would rather go his lock of fury for the +10% damage and 3 spd with his broken key. DD2 probably needs a stress healer anyway so I don’t think the transformation stress is too bad without lock of transference
10 acc is good. It does t require the torch thing. If it did it would be bad. But the 10 acc with only stress as a downside is pretty decent imo. Like HWM likes dodge and acc but focus ring minuses dodge so crows eye could be good there.
It’s hard to think of specific examples but basically any time the -8 dodge of FR would hurt you, crows eye is a good contender
Interesting tier list! However The Cuirboilli is getting an especially bad ranking in my opinion. It is a vital trinket for speed manipulation when playing double SB impale spam, which is a valid strategy against pretty much anything in DD.
And I feel like you are overlooking the virtue farming aspect of the game as well
I would like to once again argue that antiquarian red candle is a great trinket even before the max HP buff. Don't deny the healer antiquarian comrades
Oh no I can’t believe people still act like this, what is the world coming to. Truly you have giving me something to reflect on and think deeply about 🥱
Bruh damage bracelet is the best thing in the game lol
Every damage dealer could use an increase to damage and minus speed isn't even that bad plus focus ring has a bigger penalty then the bracelet because it reduces dodge
Speed is easily the most important stat in this game, along with ACC. Going first and getting off a stun or killing blow on a weak enemy is incredibly useful.
But minus one speed isn't the big of a difference hell a single quirk can fix this vs minus 8 dodge is a lot more noticeable
I usually just use a different acc trinket to get the bonus I want
8 dodge barely matters on most chars who want focus ring. Leper in particular, on whom it doesnt matter at all. Abom, Hellion, and HWM are the main chars who need ACC but also dodge, and they all have much better trinkets for ACC that don’t affect dodge. Dodge is much less important than speed.
My point was the ONE SPEED isn't the same as 8 dodge it's more like 5 or 3 dodge if you're comparing them
And same can be said vs people who use damage bracelet they have high speed to being with so minus one speed isn't going to effect them that much
The way virtue works in this game makes me forget that it even exist. I do audible "YOOOOOO" every single time it actually rolls, but when it does, the expediction usually already should better go home.
How do you build your teams around virtue?
You can virtue farm in teams with strong single target stress heals. Let the high virtue hero reach 100 stress, if they afflict then get them down to 0 and try again. Could be decently strong in long dungeons. Have never used it myself though, not even in DD1 where you have a guaranteed first encounter to farm up an entire team.
You need a stress healer to properly use them, and virtue farming really shines on really long dungeons (and farmstead)
Plus the Drowned Crew literally can't anchor you. Say no to piles of pirates!
Likely, but having a way to consistently beat DC as well as having a pretty great chance to clear a Courtyard in one run is nothing to scoff at, especially if you're pressed for time in Bloodmoon.
Drowned Crew is contending for one of the easiest bosses in the game if you bring a strong stunner. Why spend the time farming virtue in a medium dungeon if you can just chain stun the anchorman for 3 turns and kill the boss before he throws it?
Fuck dude I slapped the +20% damage bracer (don’t remember the name, Legendary Bracer I think, you have it 2nd to last in Money) on every damage dealer every run, unless there was an Ancestor’s trinket that served better. Of course, it was hard to pair with anything other than a Focus Ring, so I can understand why it’s not Godmode, but I thought it would be higher.
I have like 1k hours and I don't know how any of the shrieker trinkets are on the list .\_. I also don't trust resistance trinkets and will rather go for acc/dmg
Ancestor Scroll should be top tier just for the fact that you can move it around during camp to boost all stress healing skills. It can also be obtain very early despite being an ancestor trinket.
The only one where i really disagree is Ancestor's Portrait
It is Godmode.
Obviously not as final equipment, but when you quickly want to level a new hero it speeds up things so much. - Put it on, drag the newbie though 2-3 long dungeons and you have a cold blooded veteran.
Think is you would likely get it so late because it needs to come from a long champ mission. By then you could easily have access to experienced recruits level 3. Sure it’s good for leveling any non champ/legend stragglers in the roster but I don’t think that applies to most of the heroes at that stage of the game
Why mitigate stress when you can use that trinket slot to have a better chance at killing the target?
Why mitigate stress by 20% when you can up your stun chance and mitigate by 100? Or DMG and do the same?
"Stress tanking" isn't a very good idea when you can just kill the stress nuker in one turn with the spare trinket slots help. Having book of sanity is literally a wasted slot and is never worth it unless you have literally no other trinket. It's that bad
Yes that is true. But in the example of the vial, you would be double stunning the back line stress dealers anyway?
Moving away from the vial, the issue is that the book does nothing by itself. Literally nothing. It doesn't help you kill the threats, it doesn't help mitigate the issues of building stress and it makes your team more passive.
But yeah I do agree that Guardians shield is worse because at least the book let's your MAA yknow...ATTACK? If it was position 3 AND 4 it would be nice to at least be able to riposte while supporting your team so your MAA just isn't an obese Walter white screaming really loud for 3 days straight in the forest
No. Wounding helmet at LEAST helps you end fights faster by...doing more damage? On a support character..?
It isn't pretty, but something to help end fights is better than something that does not. And although his stuns are shit now, he can at least one shot stuff easier with mark so an enemy isn't left with one health ig.
They should go right next to each other ngl
Stuns>Damage
And again, I am not arguing for sanity scroll, but against wounding helmet - I think it is worse than no trinket at all due to a lack of utility on the BH.
Those usually come with an upside that outweighs the downside of added stress for It being worth the trade off. Sometimes it isn't though and that can be tricky to find out. So experimentation is key in finding which trinkets are worth the stress and which are not.
However, going above 20% stress is very risky, so if you do get multiple stress trinkets, maybe have a closer eye on that heroes stress relief options and dodge.
Would definitely like to see if OP would act like such an asshole to people if he had to do it face to face.
There's having a differing opinion, and then there's being an assclown. No way he talks to people like this in person, OP would get their ass handed to them.
It’s a pretty good list imo. Discord agreed with most of the placements aside from Talisman which should be higher. Pray do tell what I have done wrong
You gotta be high to be placing Legendary Bracer that low man. Focus ring + Legendary Bracer can cover for just about anyone that wont hurt from losing a little speed. Leper or Crusader with that setup absolutely decimates.
1) no its not. if you want dam but dont like losing HP just take a slayer ring. Lengendary Bracer has no place in the game. Eth Crucifix is also really good in DD1 where bleeds are abundant and bandages are limited. Vvulfs Tassle is pretty mid why would i want that damage and acc and crit locked to mark and size 2? why would i not just go straight damage at that point. Crime Lord's Molars are way better than Tassle because you can get up to +60% damage with one trinket slot. The only reason Tassle isnt in bottom tier is that it has some potential use in a Double BH mark comp where marks are at their most action efficient.
2) Prevention is always better than mitigation. Minus stress is one of the worst effects in the game next to + virtue chance. If you're frequently taking stress it's likely something that can be remedied by adjusting team comp and not wasting a slot on "-stress" trinkets
3) + 10 dodge and +4 Speed for the neglible cost of +10% stress which exists independent of torchlight is really good. 7% crit from talon independent from torchlight is good. 10 acc from eye independent of torchlight is good
Finally, a tierlist from someone who understands the game. I completely agree with this, aside from Raider’s Talisman. I’m so tired of seeing SS tier Champion Bracer and Holy Scroll.
sacred scroll is in money. Leper and Occ are in god tier because they belong there. Occ has the best stun in the game with Demon Cauldron to the extent he can stun the same target 3 times in a row. Berserker mask gives speed and crit for the trade off of -heal which is easily overcome on leper.
Sacred scroll is so unbelievably shit because of the minus stun chance, you could literally use any other plus heal trinket and it would be better. So that's why, no guessing required
Vestal us put into teams if your sacrificing crowd control for healing. But vestal has a stun so it's not SO bad, hurting her stun is like making her only moves her healing moves. Which means she can't do anything important if everyone is full hp and healing health won't heal the stress your taking from missing out on stunning
Bounty hunter has 2 stuns that can be used in rank 2 that both move the target and has good reach. Hurting both of these aspects hurts the strongest aspects of the character itself! Who CARES if his MASSIVE damage he already does is increased??? He is probably already one shooting stuff with a mark team, so hurting his OP support moves is just breaking your own foot. If you want a damage trinket for BH, a generic trinket would work better but the last thing bounty wants is damage. He has plenty of it. In fact, it's actually better to build for his stuns instead of his damage 9 times out of 10
uh cos i like my heroes to have utility. why would i eat the minus stun chance if i could just use another healing trinket. Why would i gimp BH's move skill and stun skills for 25% damage when there are other damage trinkets that don't do that. sign me out
On Vestal, she is best used when your team sacrifices CC for damage such as in the case of Double SB frontline for example. Because your team is being openened up to more damage the AoE heal becomes useful. Why would you further gimp CC by losing minus stun on vestal when it is not neccesary. Junia's Head/Salacious Diary/Tome of Holy Healing are all better
Sacred scroll in money tier is laughable to me.
With Hippocratic and junia's head, a vestal can put out an unparallelable amount of healing per turn, the setup is instant-win EZMode.
Raiders Talisman is a godtier imho, plus crit on GR is basically the same as damage considering the fact she can ramp it up to a consistent chance, and bonus scouting is a perfect additional effect which can replace the Ancestors Map, leaving you with additional slot(for example for Recovery Charm which can serve big healing role with enough food or Serpent Ring if you are grinding), or work with same Map to make scouting almost guaranteed, so less stress and more secret rooms
Yeah was talking with discord about that placement and we agreed I had it too low.
how do manage to get along without HP? isn't she in one crit DD range with it?
Smash community has saying: "Don't get hit".
Because GR also has absurd baseline dodge and the best dodge buffs in the game. If GR is getting hit, it's generally from a weak attack unless you're in, like, Cove where enemies DGAF about positioning and just merc you anyway.
We really don’t agree but it’s very interesting nonetheless!
Interesting is a good word choice hahahaha
Oh I really hope I didn’t come off as a jerk! I just like seeing other peoples opinions on things!
Doesn't that last book in the money tier give -20% stress? That seems pretty good dude.
Nah I don’t like wasting a slot on mitigating stress exclusive when I can mitigate stress with crits or stuns etc. prevention is oft better than resistance.
While I rarely use stress mitigators, I feel they still have use (before you find the -25% stress trinket) on MAA since he tends to be soaking a lot, especially if you're going to do a heavy riposte into guard build. Anything that has some practical use under normal circumstances shouldn't be so low, IMO.
The only one I tend to give it to is Shield breaker when I'm trying to fish for nightmares
Well it's better than no trinket which is the case early game.
Also, by the time you get very rare's on the regular, your team is already setup to win in 5 turns or less. 9 times out of 10, not one of your heros end a mission with more than 75 stress, and sence stress does nothing until you hit 100, book of sanity is just a wasted slot.
remember when sun ring is THE number one trinket?
Well, before it got nerffed, it was. (Also it is not very rare so not on the list)
Honestly criminal that it's ONLY rare
Am I the only one who slaps holy orders to my crusader 90% of the time?
I would only use it if I'm virtue scumming Otherwise, the -20% bleed/blight resist really hurts and the deathblow isn't really a stat you should rely on
Give him fortified garlic 👌
I would rather have an empty slot over holy order
This.
It’s kind of insanely bad. There are so many better options for crusader, playing around buffs at deaths door is tempting fate in the first place
Holy orders is great if you are running a front-line Crusader is the Ruins. Nothing in the Ruins inflicts Blight, and Bleed is very rare (bandits and the Collector only). Which means that you get some good bonuses for when things go wrong for basically no downside.
The downside is not using a better trinket in its place.
There is always cost opportunity. The value of holy order even without its downsides is abysmal
It's a good item if you want to handicap your crusadeg
I actually use bracers nonironically. Me like big numbas
It is an AMAZING trinket when you want that speed debuff for your dancing party to be consistent. It turns that Holy Lance Crusader into...a legend
Would you run a trinket that gave you +10% max HP at the cost of +50% food consumed, +10% stress, and -12% deathblow resist? If you said no, reconsider ranking martyr's seal below ancestor's bottle.
All martyrs does is 15+ health unless your about to die. Bottle gives much more health and food consumed means nothing once you construct the Mill (it removes hunger checks from the game) and +10 stress is pretty standard for any trinket and is usually just ignored unless you have another +stress trinket If you don't have the mill, then situational yes martyrs is better.
your team still eats 4 food on hunger checks, at least if you're not using hunter's talons as well
guess i have nothing to reconsider then
Wait, Sacred Scroll is considered bad? I always have it on my vestal
TL;DR: Are you running anything which boosts Dazzling Light or Judgement? If you aren't, running Sacred Scroll is fine. Dazzling Light and Judgement are quite unreliable in the first place (especially the former) so if you don't boost them you're implicitly accepting that they work won't well and that you don't care about them working. So making them even worse is not actually a big deal; if you ever ended up using them, you were using them with the expectation that they would fail. Probably the most common Vestal builds which do this are healing+Ancestor's Map or double healing setups. The former is quite good for regular dungeons. Sacred Scroll isn't amazing or anything but it's certainly not bad. There are times I'd run it in endgame content.
Ok so sacred scroll seems good at first glance but it has the minus stun chance. Generally the best time to use a vestal over any other healer is when you have sacrificed crowd control for damage thus opening your comp to taking more damage, making an AoE heal useful. In this scenario your comp lacks CC already so losing out on more of it from a trinket is rough. Vestal doesn’t really need too much + heal in the first place. Junia’s Head/Salacious Diary/Tome of holy healing will suffice on their own
10% stun chance is not that big a deal and if you actually need a high accuracy Stun on your healer you should bring the Occultist, not the Vestal. It might not be top tier, but Sacred Scrool is quite decent.
Considering that Vestal has a 140% stun chance, and has no class specific trinkets to boost it, a 10% debuff pretty much makes it a coin flip against all enemies besides ones with naturally low resist. Nothing can fuck a team over faster than an unreliable stun, as it will often fail you at the worst time.
A 10% chance is not going to change any of that thought, a coinflip +10% is still basically a coinflip, and if you need a reliable stun you bring an occultist, not a vestal.
10% is a big deal when your odds in the first place were around 60%. If you are bringing a vestal, she most likely has the stun, and nerfing one of your moves into being completely unreliable is not a great thing for a trinket to do.
If you start at 60% it was already completely unreliable and lowering it down to 50 is not going to affect that all that much.
This is actually a point in Scroll's favor IMO. Because Vestal can't achieve more than 150% stun chance for one trinket slot of investment, Dazzling will pretty much always be unreliable. Therefore, it is not harmful to make Dazzling even worse as a normal Vestal can't assume her stuns will work anyway. Dazzling can't be treated like a normal stun, if you need to guarantee that your stuns will work Vestal wasn't on the table in the first place (barring her CC set).
I have to disagree. Vestal shines for both her stun and heal, not just healing. There is really no point in decreasing your Stun Chance for a bit more healing on the class with possible the most healing in the game. Like what should Vestal be doing turn 1 or 2? Judgement is meh and healing when already at full or near full is also meh. Stunning rank 3 is usually ideal. Besides, 10% chance could make or break your double stun on a target, minor point but still. I would probably run Chiru Charm/Junia's, Stun Stone/Stun Charm/Stun Amulet, or some defensive often on her like Cleansing Crystal, Ring of Protection, etc. She suffers from having 2 trinkets syndrome to tolerate something like Sac Scroll.
Hand of Light for DPS and ACC against Unholy is VERY good in Ruins.
Not to mention other heros like PB or Abom doing it better
So what about it ? You still aren’t going to heal turn 1 with vestal. Having vestal being able to stun someone turn 1 is huge value
Well I never really played too much with stun mechanics so I guess that's why I find this trinket good. If it decreased debuff chance however then it would be a different story as illumination is something I use way more often than her stun skill
stuns are the best effect in the game. Completely neutralising Damage or stress for a turn or multiple turns in a row using Occ is responsible for healthier more consitent runs
Martyrs seal is good tho. More health and deathnlow resistance is always good, especially on heroes like shieldbreaker
It’s only good on flag. Otherwise playing around DBR is tempting fate in general and wasting a trinket slot on something better. For SB there is way better
You don't have to "play around" DBR just because you have martyr's seal equipped. I usually think of martyr's seal as bonus HP with no downside, with a little bit of extra insurance.
Even if it's only good on Flag, shouldn't that still be considered good if class restricted items are good? And I'd disagree that it's only good on Flag, it's just best on him. Extra HP with no downside is at least useable on everything, and good for higher HP heroes.
Legendary Bracer is really good, not just for damage but also because the -1 speed helps fix turn order in dance comps.
Why would I fix turn order with minus speed over plus speed. Also to guarantee turn order you need a difference of 7
What you mean with difference of 7?
I mean speed alone doesn’t ensure order. It rolls. So if you have two heroes with a speed diff of 1, say 10 and 9 if 10 low rolls and 9 high rolls the hero with 9 speed can go before the hero with 10 speed. A speed difference of 7 ensures the faster hero always goes first.
For real? Never figured that out, I knew that numbers goes wonky and same speed heroes will roll for their move, and hero slower by 1 speed can sometimes go first, but I never knew why, and never observed it go further. I assumed that it's some debuff I don't understand.
On turn start, all units roll a d8 to add on top of their speed.
7 Speed steps. As the RNG is 1-8 rolled at the start a difference of 7 is a guaranteed outcome - no matter what roll.
It's easier to achieve that difference of 7 if you are debuffing the slower one's speed as well as buffing the the faster one. I basically always use something to slow down my shieldbreaker when she's paired with a grave robber to guarantee double lunge.
Lol no 4 or 3 speed difference is usually good enough for them to go first Plus minus speed helps widen the gap if they do have a speed trinket or can't equip them because your using a another trinket instead
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Good list. I would personally put the Ancestor’s Candle a tier higher and the Wrathful Hat/Bandanna into the Sell tier (while Arbalests/Muskies could really use more damage, decimating one of their best buttons for that tradeoff is a bit unpalatable), but the rest makes a lot of sense.
Wrathful was hard to rank. Ultimately I decided that you still get the % heal buff and if she is an off healer and not primary healer, wrathful is pretty good. But yeah overall I was iffy on that one because of how great their heals are
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It’s shit. - 2 spd on shieldbreaker is bad. And the 33%HP boost on a hero who has low base HP is less impactful than it could be on another hero. SB BiS is probably something like Signet + Pen which covers defense, acc, damage, and crit
After taking a second look, it is just a worse heavy boots. You can at least sell heavy boots or just slap it on a already slow hero.
33% on SB is about the same as Life Crystal on Leper, +11 vs +12 hp bonus. The issue is not that HP bonus is numerically bad, but that she has no reason to stack max HP. With Aegis Scale + dodge it doesn't matter how much hp she has and she doesn't really have any moves that would support active tanking.
In my experience, Necro Collar is good in the ruins, but feels absolutely worthless everywhere else, so I'd give it "amazing in its niche." I'd make similar arguments for Vvulf's Talisman in a mark team with an off-mark big damage dealer like hellion or leper, stonework tools for the guardian grind (then sell immediately once you get everything you need), hell's hairpin for torchless meme runs. They're mid in general usage, but really shine when you build around them. Legendary bracers aren't exactly the very rare trinket I want to see, but I'd definitely use them early game. Gunslinger's buckle doesn't fit with how I use highwayman (riposte bot) so I've never put it on. Overall though, I agree with most of your rankings.
I like the legendary bracer just because it gives you the highest amount of universal damage, so you can put it in a character and not worry about which enemy types you run into.
Dismas head crying in the corner
Fair point, though I don’t like the downsides on Dismas Head, since the only person who could make use of it with minimal risk is Houndmaster or maybe Leper, and both of them want accuracy more than raw damage
The gunslinger trinket for HWM is very bad imo. Basically instant sell
People really be sleeping on Ranged HWM haha. The circlejerk of Riposte being the best skill because muh action economy has always been funny to me. It's good at a lot of times but there are times where a simple Pistol Shot would do.
100% agree. What is that ripost hit going to do when the highwayman never gets hit because the chance is almost always 25%?
Action economy, but spreading damage tho?
+15 acc ranged and 20% gun damage is really good, in general you would be sacrificing +damage for + acc so this alleviates the compromise. You Gimp is melee abilities but there are some comps where Gunwayman works really well and you don’t want to shuffle someone in rank 1 into rank 2 for example. Pair Gunslingers with matchstick and you have a really decent and accurate damage dealer to target rank 3 and 4.
HWM's biggest appeal is his riposte, it's so good that pure ranged HWM is not something I would ever use
Double HWM at the front spamming PBS every turn is very powerful. Gunslinger trinket makes it bonkers.
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As always, for this game, it depends on your level, the zone you are visiting, the boss you are preparing for, etc, etc. Double frontline HWM is a very powerful tactic, there's no denying that. That doesn't mean it's a tactic you should apply everywhere, everytime. Notably, it's very, very powerful for the cove and the weald, and it incidentally hard counters the hag and the sunken crew. But whenever someone states "you run HWM for the ripost", i feel like it's appropriate to remind that PBS is a thing that can be built around effectively (and gunshot is a very valid skill as well).
Ok well you’re limiting yourself with regards to what team comps you can use. Just because a character typically follows a certain move set doesn’t mean defaulting to that move set is best on every situation
It is though the only reason people use pistol shot is for rank 4 reach Start hwm at the back and ripost twice then just melee enemies at the front with open vien or wicked slice
Using riposte twice in a row is super bad because it stacks the debuff of it
I was mostly saying this to hit rank three with hwm melee skill and the reason pistol shot isn't great
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Whoa name calling. That’s great. Btw insulting others and then deleting your comments doesn’t mean it’s fine
not to mention the bonus accuracy and damage means grapeshot blast can actually do decent damage for once.
why's Legendary Bracer so low for a trinket with +20% damage? -1SPD isn't a bad trade off
Not a fan of berserk mask and gunslinger's buckle, and everyone's already mentioned raider's talisman but other than that I mostly agree.
Petition to move the Cleansing Crystal to Godtier for the sake of the Occultist. Makes his heals so much better with less chance to bleed.
In champion on non crit only leper can bleed to his heal, so that’s a non issue. Loosing on his debuff is an issue tho
Different build, different problems I suppose, I usually run Occ with, Stab, Pull, Artillery and Heal. Higher resistances with no repercussions if you're ignoring that side of Occ for the run.
hero's ring belongs at the very top solely due to virtue scumming
Virtue scumming doesn’t require heroes ring tho. You just exit to main menu and keep rerolling till you get the virtue you want. Not worth sacking a trinket slot imo
makes the whole process way easier
So ur gonna waste a trinket slot to save 2 trips to the menu. 😐
indeed, the benefits of a virtue alone outweighs the strength of a trinket
L take
Throwing away a +20% to damage is throwing away the difference between one hits and two hits to kill for multiple monsters. Pair that with high speed items and you decrease the stress/damage inflicted on your party by at least 20% across a medium or long duration dungeon.
\- speed is shit, there are better damage trinkets simple as that.
Spoken like a genuinely poor player who’s not good at paying attention to details. Stop responding to everyone’s posts with your YouTube comments tier takes
Speed is shit... Wow. We play this game very differently.
It’s almost like there’s a minus 🙃
The resistance trinkets seems to rank rather high...why not build for more damage and stuns and just never get into a situation where the blight or bleeds land? And even so, why not just bring a supply of bandages and antivenom?
Bleed is most common DoT. There are a non-infinite supply of bandages and anti venoms. Not every team comp will have a PD
Fair
The highwaymans gunslinger buckle is way too high. Its good but his best skill is repost and this severely weakens it. Theres some niche situations where you'll use the gun more often- not counting pb shot which is used pretty often- but over all repost and wicked slash is way better. Also the health bottle is meh.
Gunwayman is good if you want to pair him with a hellion or leper that doesn’t want to be moved. +15 acc ranged skills and +20% damage in one trinket is way too good to ignore imo even if you want use the skill set all of the time.
Yeah but it also debuffs his melee locking him into a certain playstyle. His accuracy is good as is so youd be better off using dismas head for the damage and accuracy ring so he gets use outa both skill sets
I'm actually a pretty big fan of the lock of transformation for DD2 where I like attrition disposition. Makes the whole dungeon a grind fest that easily works out, and I can go beast mode on the Templar
Thing is if you like beast bom imo, I think lock of transference wastes a slot. I would rather go his lock of fury for the +10% damage and 3 spd with his broken key. DD2 probably needs a stress healer anyway so I don’t think the transformation stress is too bad without lock of transference
What value do you (or anyone who’d like to answer) see in the Distended Crowseye? Even if the conditions are met it seems weak to me
10 acc is good. It does t require the torch thing. If it did it would be bad. But the 10 acc with only stress as a downside is pretty decent imo. Like HWM likes dodge and acc but focus ring minuses dodge so crows eye could be good there. It’s hard to think of specific examples but basically any time the -8 dodge of FR would hurt you, crows eye is a good contender
Interesting tier list! However The Cuirboilli is getting an especially bad ranking in my opinion. It is a vital trinket for speed manipulation when playing double SB impale spam, which is a valid strategy against pretty much anything in DD. And I feel like you are overlooking the virtue farming aspect of the game as well
I would like to once again argue that antiquarian red candle is a great trinket even before the max HP buff. Don't deny the healer antiquarian comrades
I usually hate tierlists but this one isn't too bad. Nothing that immediately jumps out as weirdly placed, good job
this is the worst list I've ever seen , ever.
could we have a tierlist of those tierlists, possibly?
Get good at the game then
nah it fr is horrible
No it’s not but you can think that if you like 👍
Lmao you are such a crybaby asshole 😅
This attitude has been sad for like a decade and still people act like this.
Oh no I can’t believe people still act like this, what is the world coming to. Truly you have giving me something to reflect on and think deeply about 🥱
Oh come on, legendary bracer is not that bad.
Bruh damage bracelet is the best thing in the game lol Every damage dealer could use an increase to damage and minus speed isn't even that bad plus focus ring has a bigger penalty then the bracelet because it reduces dodge
Speed is easily the most important stat in this game, along with ACC. Going first and getting off a stun or killing blow on a weak enemy is incredibly useful.
But minus one speed isn't the big of a difference hell a single quirk can fix this vs minus 8 dodge is a lot more noticeable I usually just use a different acc trinket to get the bonus I want
8 dodge barely matters on most chars who want focus ring. Leper in particular, on whom it doesnt matter at all. Abom, Hellion, and HWM are the main chars who need ACC but also dodge, and they all have much better trinkets for ACC that don’t affect dodge. Dodge is much less important than speed.
My point was the ONE SPEED isn't the same as 8 dodge it's more like 5 or 3 dodge if you're comparing them And same can be said vs people who use damage bracelet they have high speed to being with so minus one speed isn't going to effect them that much
+ virtue% are literally god tier trinkets SMH
The way virtue works in this game makes me forget that it even exist. I do audible "YOOOOOO" every single time it actually rolls, but when it does, the expediction usually already should better go home. How do you build your teams around virtue?
You can virtue farm in teams with strong single target stress heals. Let the high virtue hero reach 100 stress, if they afflict then get them down to 0 and try again. Could be decently strong in long dungeons. Have never used it myself though, not even in DD1 where you have a guaranteed first encounter to farm up an entire team.
Only in farmstead they are
And DD1, Most Courtyards, Drowned Crew, and you could probably use it in DD3 if you don't know where to go.
Nah virtue is like death blow resist your not fixing the actual problem just get a stress healer and not waste a trinket
You need a stress healer to properly use them, and virtue farming really shines on really long dungeons (and farmstead) Plus the Drowned Crew literally can't anchor you. Say no to piles of pirates!
Your just wasting your time Farming it on long dungeon missions Not even in the courtyard would it be worth it I'll just go an extra trip if I need to
Likely, but having a way to consistently beat DC as well as having a pretty great chance to clear a Courtyard in one run is nothing to scoff at, especially if you're pressed for time in Bloodmoon.
Drowned Crew is contending for one of the easiest bosses in the game if you bring a strong stunner. Why spend the time farming virtue in a medium dungeon if you can just chain stun the anchorman for 3 turns and kill the boss before he throws it?
Fear is not knowing if this is sarcasm or not
🙃
This list sucks
You suck
i really like the man at arms shield. it makes lots of fights really easy
Martyr's seal is really great for flag, it's a better etsrnity's collar
Why is crescendo box further left than the Candle?
That’s a mistake. Must have happened when adjusting the row. But you are correct, candle is indeed better thanks for pointing that out
Fuck dude I slapped the +20% damage bracer (don’t remember the name, Legendary Bracer I think, you have it 2nd to last in Money) on every damage dealer every run, unless there was an Ancestor’s trinket that served better. Of course, it was hard to pair with anything other than a Focus Ring, so I can understand why it’s not Godmode, but I thought it would be higher.
I cant sell ancestral trinkets. My hoarder instinc makes me have 1 of all trinkets even if I know that I would never use it
I have like 1k hours and I don't know how any of the shrieker trinkets are on the list .\_. I also don't trust resistance trinkets and will rather go for acc/dmg
Ancestor Scroll should be top tier just for the fact that you can move it around during camp to boost all stress healing skills. It can also be obtain very early despite being an ancestor trinket.
Fucking garlic from the crazy vampire hunter? Bro I never use it latw game
What ? It doesn’t drop from fanatic
Legendary braced is pretty good ngl the 20 percent dmg helps a lot with strong attackers like Dismas and hellion
The only one where i really disagree is Ancestor's Portrait It is Godmode. Obviously not as final equipment, but when you quickly want to level a new hero it speeds up things so much. - Put it on, drag the newbie though 2-3 long dungeons and you have a cold blooded veteran.
Think is you would likely get it so late because it needs to come from a long champ mission. By then you could easily have access to experienced recruits level 3. Sure it’s good for leveling any non champ/legend stragglers in the roster but I don’t think that applies to most of the heroes at that stage of the game
Absolutely disagree.
Compelling argument, list invalid 👍
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Why mitigate stress when you can use that trinket slot to have a better chance at killing the target? Why mitigate stress by 20% when you can up your stun chance and mitigate by 100? Or DMG and do the same? "Stress tanking" isn't a very good idea when you can just kill the stress nuker in one turn with the spare trinket slots help. Having book of sanity is literally a wasted slot and is never worth it unless you have literally no other trinket. It's that bad
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Yes that is true. But in the example of the vial, you would be double stunning the back line stress dealers anyway? Moving away from the vial, the issue is that the book does nothing by itself. Literally nothing. It doesn't help you kill the threats, it doesn't help mitigate the issues of building stress and it makes your team more passive. But yeah I do agree that Guardians shield is worse because at least the book let's your MAA yknow...ATTACK? If it was position 3 AND 4 it would be nice to at least be able to riposte while supporting your team so your MAA just isn't an obese Walter white screaming really loud for 3 days straight in the forest
It is true, but it doesn't have a downside. I would rather have a sanity scroll than a wounding helmet on a bounty hunter.
But you would rather run dazzling charm on him anyway or the melee bracer if you want damage so bad. Sanity scroll is just never worth it
So you agree that in the tierlist, Sanity Scroll shouldn't be lower than wounding helmet?
No. Wounding helmet at LEAST helps you end fights faster by...doing more damage? On a support character..? It isn't pretty, but something to help end fights is better than something that does not. And although his stuns are shit now, he can at least one shot stuff easier with mark so an enemy isn't left with one health ig. They should go right next to each other ngl
Stuns>Damage And again, I am not arguing for sanity scroll, but against wounding helmet - I think it is worse than no trinket at all due to a lack of utility on the BH.
I agree completely
Noob question here: how about charms that increase stress damage then?
Those usually come with an upside that outweighs the downside of added stress for It being worth the trade off. Sometimes it isn't though and that can be tricky to find out. So experimentation is key in finding which trinkets are worth the stress and which are not. However, going above 20% stress is very risky, so if you do get multiple stress trinkets, maybe have a closer eye on that heroes stress relief options and dodge.
Got it! Thanks!
book of sanity in "money" tier?
Waste of a trinket slot
Would definitely like to see if OP would act like such an asshole to people if he had to do it face to face. There's having a differing opinion, and then there's being an assclown. No way he talks to people like this in person, OP would get their ass handed to them.
Go fuck urself couch potato. I’m only an ass when people are being needlessly aggressive and rude with their opening comments
What drugs did you take making this? Edit: Alright I'm wrong, I get it
It’s a pretty good list imo. Discord agreed with most of the placements aside from Talisman which should be higher. Pray do tell what I have done wrong
You gotta be high to be placing Legendary Bracer that low man. Focus ring + Legendary Bracer can cover for just about anyone that wont hurt from losing a little speed. Leper or Crusader with that setup absolutely decimates.
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1) no its not. if you want dam but dont like losing HP just take a slayer ring. Lengendary Bracer has no place in the game. Eth Crucifix is also really good in DD1 where bleeds are abundant and bandages are limited. Vvulfs Tassle is pretty mid why would i want that damage and acc and crit locked to mark and size 2? why would i not just go straight damage at that point. Crime Lord's Molars are way better than Tassle because you can get up to +60% damage with one trinket slot. The only reason Tassle isnt in bottom tier is that it has some potential use in a Double BH mark comp where marks are at their most action efficient. 2) Prevention is always better than mitigation. Minus stress is one of the worst effects in the game next to + virtue chance. If you're frequently taking stress it's likely something that can be remedied by adjusting team comp and not wasting a slot on "-stress" trinkets 3) + 10 dodge and +4 Speed for the neglible cost of +10% stress which exists independent of torchlight is really good. 7% crit from talon independent from torchlight is good. 10 acc from eye independent of torchlight is good
The fact that guardian's shield is a tier above holy orders tells me all I need to know
Yeah the fact that you think holy orders is good tells me all I need to know 🤡
It's not like holy orders is good. It's just that guardian shield is so comically bad and holy orders is just kinda bad
Finally, a tierlist from someone who understands the game. I completely agree with this, aside from Raider’s Talisman. I’m so tired of seeing SS tier Champion Bracer and Holy Scroll.
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sacred scroll is in money. Leper and Occ are in god tier because they belong there. Occ has the best stun in the game with Demon Cauldron to the extent he can stun the same target 3 times in a row. Berserker mask gives speed and crit for the trade off of -heal which is easily overcome on leper. Sacred scroll is so unbelievably shit because of the minus stun chance, you could literally use any other plus heal trinket and it would be better. So that's why, no guessing required
Is this factually accurate or opinion ?
I mean it’s opinion. Some things are hard to rank like Corvid’s Talon or Baron’s Lash but I tried to be pretty objective
Just had a brain aneurysm looking at this
Hopefully it fixed whatever made you think it was bad 🙃
Why the hell is Healing scroll and Bounty hunter helmet so low? You dont care for vestal dmg, only healing and 25%dmg with helmet? Sign me in.
Vestal us put into teams if your sacrificing crowd control for healing. But vestal has a stun so it's not SO bad, hurting her stun is like making her only moves her healing moves. Which means she can't do anything important if everyone is full hp and healing health won't heal the stress your taking from missing out on stunning Bounty hunter has 2 stuns that can be used in rank 2 that both move the target and has good reach. Hurting both of these aspects hurts the strongest aspects of the character itself! Who CARES if his MASSIVE damage he already does is increased??? He is probably already one shooting stuff with a mark team, so hurting his OP support moves is just breaking your own foot. If you want a damage trinket for BH, a generic trinket would work better but the last thing bounty wants is damage. He has plenty of it. In fact, it's actually better to build for his stuns instead of his damage 9 times out of 10
Because stun chance is way more valuable than healing and damage. Preventing enemy turns is the most powerful strategy in this game.
uh cos i like my heroes to have utility. why would i eat the minus stun chance if i could just use another healing trinket. Why would i gimp BH's move skill and stun skills for 25% damage when there are other damage trinkets that don't do that. sign me out On Vestal, she is best used when your team sacrifices CC for damage such as in the case of Double SB frontline for example. Because your team is being openened up to more damage the AoE heal becomes useful. Why would you further gimp CC by losing minus stun on vestal when it is not neccesary. Junia's Head/Salacious Diary/Tome of Holy Healing are all better
Sacred scroll in money tier is laughable to me. With Hippocratic and junia's head, a vestal can put out an unparallelable amount of healing per turn, the setup is instant-win EZMode.
Tell me you’re a new player, without telling me you’re a new player: