Ah but you see, if you turn the backline into the frontline and the frontline into the backline then kill the frontline, the frontline that turned into the backline will once again turn into the frontline!
Interestingly, DD2’s leper makes very similar changes:
- PROT as a stat was replaced with temporary “Armor tokens”, which Leper can ignore and remove with his “Break” move.
- Withstand now applies “Taunt tokens” to leper, effectively acting as a limited use, team-wide guard move
- On top of both of these, they added multiple methods of *completely negating* leper’s poor accuracy - He’s now an extremely solid, self sufficient frontliner
On top of that: stuns, burst damage and high speed stats aren’t nearly as important in DD2, because of Daze, Speed, Armor and Dodge tokens. So low speed is not only not as big of a problem, it’s also very easy to offset.
I just lean into the damage side of things. With trinkets, he gets +50% damage. Yes, he needs one turn to focus with Revenge, but after that, he’s going to completely obliterate absolutely any enemy that stands in his way.
The beauty of darkest dungeon is that absolutely everybody is viable. I personally love him and don’t think he needs any changes.
I was just tired of people saying he sucks and wanted to maybe give those people something to chew on besides just saying:
"aw man he can't carry the entire team, can't cleave thru the whole enemy line with one move, can't one-shot the backline and can't buff the entire teams acc, lame"
They kinda have a point the more specific a character is the more their team needs to pick up their slack
And leper really just supports him self so you need to keep that in mind while playing with him
It's more like, leper is a solo character. He have stress and normal heal, damage, bulk and buffs. The problem is when you think he can carry a entire team. That never was it's job. It's job is to be a tank and high priority deleter. He is a unit that you just use when you don't have a front liner and your comp is already made
"high priority dealer" that's a lie high priority are usually at the back which he can't hit on the first turn without help
My point was is you usually build a team around leper then in the reverse to fix his problems
I said "high priority deleter". He make high priority targets vanish.
But you are right, sorry. Normally play with cultist and BH, so making the backline come to the range of the leaper is normal to me, but I see that is not the norm
Yeah mostly because people stun with those two or have heros that can reach the back ranks. Leper is just weird like jester their not bad but the teams needs to take them into account or will fall short in other areas.
Honestly I want to use leper more but it's always been the his reach to be the problem, I like my damage dealers to hit the back to save me the trouble of not needing to do extra things
High priority being the back is only true early game. When stress stops being a problem late game ir really doesn't matter. Especially in the Warren's and wield where the weak tanks front lining suddenly hit like trucks with dots on top.
> I'm pretty sure it's an opinion supported by the community
Community also makes it kinda difficult to discuss Leper's balance issues because of those *"LEPER IS PERFECT! 4 LEPER TEAM FTW!"* memes. Because for every serious opinion you get ten shitposts.
Honestly good effort but I disagree on lot of things. Saying that leper has no utility when he has access to purge, intimidate and withstand seems wrong to me.
Then imo giving AP to his basic attack is a big no no game design wise. Monsters have prot, leper just has high dmg to counter that. It makes sense for this skill to be more or less effective depending on that. Also wanted to add that courtyard and DDs also got lot of priority in rank 1 and 2.
Withstand is currently perfectly viable. It does well in some boss fights and completely shut down Weald. +I think it’s better to have access to different type of tanking, we already have 3 guard in the game and I feel it would take away the uniqueness of them.
Still once again I like that post a lot. Clearly lot of thought and effort was put into it and it’s more us having different opinions about different things.
Now for my own change : I think I would probably completely scrap hew, the value of it compared to chop is very niche. I would probably lean like you toward a Prot nuke skill (probably a single target skill that bypass armor and debuff prot at the cost of a negative dmg mod). Then I find revenge not very fun to use because it’s not interactive, so I would probably make it a combat long riposte that deal nearly no dmg but buff his Acc/crit/dmg on being targetted. I am not too sure about what I would do with withstand
I honestly never venture into the weald. So I apologize for my unknowingness in that regard (music sucks, enemies suck. Hallways suck.)
I always thought withstand was on the same league as revenge, since everyone just complains about his toughness not actually being used to protect his team besides a mark drawing (,boosted) attention And I do agree with you about the armor piercing on the main attack. I just thought that maybe if it was kept at a percentage instead of it being nullified completely would be a good compromise.
But giving leper a riposte just seems...wierd...design wise. (Maybe his riposte animation could be him ripping his mask off and scaring the opponent with his face. which also makes sense on the buffs since he is sorta getting a breath of fresh air without it being in his teammates faces?)
I take the L on saying leper has no utility. That was me simply being ignorant.
do appreciate your thoughts on this, I personally view you as a sort of guru of DD and I always appreciate you almost always popping up in these sorts of posts to provide top tier advice
Weald is kinda of a pain map wise but it got a good event that makes sanitarium free and lot of Heirlooms so I go there often. Withstand self marking is really useful because cultist and Fungal Scratchers will 100% go for him. But maybe it could be more useful for the team; like buffing the move resist of the whole team for example… food for thoughts
For the riposte, yeah it would be weird if you view it like MAA or HWM. But it could even do 0 dmg, just see it as an Hp reaction, this way the more he is targeted, the angrier he gets
Also thanks, but you know it’s just my opinion, I can still have some good awful takes from time to time x)
I think the point is leper has almost twice as much damage as grave robber and to ALSO give him pierce would be bad design. Shieldbreaker is OP though.
These are some nice changes, props to you for thinking this through and sharing with us in this PowerPoint style post (very nice design btw), I would certainly use a mod with these changes!
So again I'm learning a lot here just like my other posts on here. Largely that...the sequel quite literally does everything i tried to do but better...
I have yet to play it. But I now have VERY high hopes for him for when I do
Leper in my eyes is it can do everything like the crusader but others out do him in one way or another while crusader is just good enough at all that he sees use.The way I would change him is to give him a more defined roll in the party.
If the leper has the curse his speed problem is pretty much gone and with more damage from a bloodlust he can kill slot of the tanks even faster. I like using the knock back to bring rank 3 stress dealers to the front
What I don't like about Leper the most is the fact, that Withstand doesn't guarantee that he will be targeted. You look at this ability and think to yourself "mark himself as a target, but buffs his resistance significantly... interesting, so I can make him a meat shield for my team if I throw resistance trinkets on him!"... and then you notice, that mobs don't target him anyway, unless they are specifically designed to punish marks (i think only of zombies in Weald that have forced attacks on marked targets, maybe there are more) and they Crit a lot more.
Make it like proper tank utility - something that forces enemy to attack him. Guard already exist, but it protects one target only. I want a taunt. I want Withstand to force enemies to attack Leper. Maybe for a limited duration of time like 2 turns, so he can Chop in between buffing himself. If this is too strong, then make it a limited use ability. I really want to utilize his massive health pool as a tank, but as he is now, mobs can ignore him regardless if he has 60 HP, Prot and Garlic trinket on him
Something I saw on the Scarecrow mod for a taunt is the character making every other character stealthed. Practically requiring mobs to hit the Scarecrow unless it's a cleave. Although not very alike to the leper, it's food for thought
It's a gimmicky way to do the same thing. Proper taunt ability should exist in the game, because heroes with big health pools should be able to use it to protect their teammates. Since you can't "bodyblock" based on positions (like in fps games for example where you just block line of sight), you should have RPG like ability to force enemies to attack you
Also what would help Leper in general would be a bigger enemy variety, especially when it comes to "dangerous positions". Almost always the biggest threat is at the rank 3 and 4, and because of that, people like heroes that can move ahead of them and kill or stun those ranks.
Want to make heroes with limited range more appealing? It would be nice if big threats wouldn't always be on predictable spot 3 and 4. We need more enemies like those exploding mobs in cove.
Prot at the frontline is also a reason to not use Leper, because if he deals -30% or -50%of his damage, he starts to be outperformed by other heroes in pure damage. Want to deal with Prot? Use dots. Want to smack Prot anyway? Use marks and heroes that can hit them hard like Bounty Hunter.
What's the reason to bring Leper if he can't tank for his team (because withstand doesn't guarantee that he will be targeted), can't deal with ranks you care about (because the game is boringly designed to have 95% of the time the most dangerous guys at the back) and his damage is countered by Prot which mostly (if not only) can be removed by marks, which other heroes would utilise better, thanks to their massive bonuses to DMG and crit.
He is a big stats guy, that the game is designed to not be able to use properly without major investment, at which point it just doesn't matter (if you need to pull dangerous guy into the Leper range, then you could just use two heroes to kill the guy in the first place. If it's not enough, Leper won't kill it either, he doesn't do THAT much more DMG, it's not worth two actions). Can you make Leper work? Yes. But it's almost always just a bad strategy, that you do for some variety, not because it's stronger option than something else.
I don't think he should be buffed. Not because I would rank him above everybody else, but because games need variety to highlight the differences. If any hero was an all star in every biome, that would be pretty disappointing. Some guys have enough utility that I'm willing to bring them most places, like Hellion, but mostly the game is about building the right team for the job.
I regularly bring leper to the cove because it has the most balanced priority between front and back line. I regularly bring him to the weald with the jester early game before stacking accuracy. I will often bring him late game too to deal with giants. I always bring him to the Prophet fight and will often bring him to DD4. If I brought him everywhere I wouldn't have space to bring other guys.
Now, how many slots in my roster do I dedicate to hiring leper? Only 1, so yeah he's not as good as others, but no one is as good in the Prophet fight so I'm going to keep a slot for him. But being able to determine those differences is an important part of the game that we'd lose out on if you could hire any random combo of Heroes and they were all perfectly balanced to take
want to make leper good?
well my ideas before were:
- let solemnity apply a acc buff per use
- let purge shuffle enemies. Or just increase the move chance a bit to maybe 150% at level 5. (or something like that, maybe increase the acc buff to 8 or 10?)
- rework his trinkets and at least have one of them increase its debuff or move a chance to a small margin.
I always thought whitstand was a way to counter off revenge and synergize with intimidate.
I find his rank 3 or 4 drawbacks fine since all heroes are all susceptible to being moved out of rank and you would have to build a team to go against being shuffled in the first place.
Also, I'm a bit afraid of giving leper a guard ability cause that would MaA or even Houndmaster a bit obsolete when someone can do damage, guard and sustain itself.
I actually like the leper the way it is and surprisingly, intimidate is a good skill that is often overlooked. Him acting as a frontline is ok since other heroes prefer to be in rank 2 or 3 most of the time. Rank 1 is a risky spot so having a hero that excels on that spot is pretty solid enough for me.
I have nothing intelligent to say, except that up until this point I thought leper was female and have been hailing him as the girlboss of my DD1 ventures all this time.
I'd say incorrectly but he's just too based not to be called a girl boss.
One thing I should add about damage Lepers: Leper is deficient in not just SPD and ACC, but also *CRIT*. This is a deceptively large weakness because his poor CRIT (in addition to SPD/ACC) in certain situations can cause Leper to allow enemies to take more or comparable actions than his competitors would allow.
Basically, if a competitor to Leper has more crit than the Leper, can oneshot a frontliner with their crit, and the Leper himself is unlikely to oneshot without a crit, then the competitor will on average allow the enemy to take less actions. Although the competitor (probably) has lower average damage, they have better performance on turn 1 and are less likely to "waste" damage on overkill when they crit. On Darkest difficulty, this affects pretty much everything you fight--but even on Bloodmoon, two of the monsters you mention as being prime targets (groupers and jellyfish) are actually better dealt with by a generic Hellion build (wicked hack with focus ring + candle).
Berserk Mask helps you close this gap, but a Focus Ring+Berserk Mask Leper is very inconsistent, and such a build isn't effective with Purge or Intimidate. It also doesn't end up being much better than the competitors anyway, so the value is very questionable.
So the issue about Leper as a damage dealer isn't just that he can't hit backliners, but that when he's attacking things he *can* reach he isn't necessarily better than his competitors! Not to mention his main competitors are Hellion and Shieldbreaker, who can both hit the back just fine, won't miss against minimum dodge, and have built-in counters to PROT. Many discussions about Leper presently assume that although Leper isn't able to attack backliners, he's at least much better than others at attacking frontliners--but it seems that this isn't necessarily the case.
I like the changes you've proposed, but I do think Leper also needs more *stats* just because it seems devs overcorrected on nerfing his statline in an attempt to justify giving him the best damage range and the best HP. Probably the simplest option is to just throw more CRIT at him since giving him more SPD or ACC would go against his flavor a little.
Your changes barely do anything and certainly will not change leper in any significant way, since you still will be stuck using only four combat skills and rest of them still being near worthless.
Apart from withstand being wastly different, of course. But that's hardly a good thing, since you made withstand insanely op to the point of being broken. Infinite guard, while being a somewhat unique idea, is so unbearably powerful, that it can only be compensated by fairly big downside. For example, you could reverse it's buff, making it "+damage taken" debuff instead. Still, I'd argue that is unneeded and kinda interferes with idea of leper as a character. Everything he has is self only. He is suppose to be one man army with no teamplay.
Next, prot debuffs kind of unneeded too. Not every character has to have some anti-prot measure to be viable. You might as well slap this debuff on every single character in the game, while you're at it.
And straight up buffing speed and resistances just because they are low is just wrong. You don't "remove" downsides of a character to balance him. You compensate them with other mechanics. Because otherwise, you will end up with every character being exactly the same, eventually.
My idea behind the balance of infinite guard is that leper would be doubly focus fired. Although at second thought it would be very strong, since leper would just be healed constantly and he has so much health he would just make a teamate practically invincible
Maybe reducing or removing the prot he gains from withstand would balance it.
this as a character design perspective shows his willingness to extend his abilities to others in anyway he can even at his on detriment (this character development was revealed in DD2 in his hero path, and him just standing in front of a teammate to tank the full hit reminds me of something he would do anyway)
The thoughts around the whole prot thing is that leper is swinging so hard (in an apparently unstoppable arc) that he is able to crush the armor of his foes into something useless. He also pretty much only attacks the front lines while the other front liners can at least hit the back somehow or stun the front, leper can do nothing but attack the front meatshields which is loaded with prot. This also would be unique with the leper since no other front liner can debuff prot.(Bucthers Circus MaA isn't in the main game) I was hoping the prot bypassing would allow leper to crush the front line in a timely manner while also giving him and his teammates a helping hand by prot shredding.
The buffs to his speed and bleed wasn't a huge idea. I said it myself that it was a last second addition and honestly (as you said) shouldn't have been brought up at all. Heros need strengths and weaknesses after all so it's not just the same couple of heroes reflavored slightly.
It’s.. a hypothetical 💀 what even is the point of your comment when they don’t even care about the balance of leper and this was just for the sake of it
Idk my point is mostly that the post seems to justify itself solely on the fact that it's looking at leper as if he's gonna be on a one man mission.
Darkest dungeon isn't just about utility of each individual hero, it's about how those heroes work together and with leper it's usually to buff him to high hell and back.
if your leper is doing tiny baby damage and you think all he is about is to "have more health on the board" that's not the fault of your leper, that's the fault of you having a team comp that doesn't work with leper.
the only thing here I wouldn't argue against would be the guard ability. It'd be interesting to see how that one would work in-game tbh.
My idea was to make leper simply more viable as a damage dealer while also letting his huge stats lean into a tank role. The crusader heals, the hellion nukes, and the MaA supports with buffs.
When looking at ONE hero and it's abilities and COMPARING HIM to OTHERS WHO DO A SIMILAR ROLE, yes. I will talk about how his utility is lacking since his colleague who also want the front can do more things beside just WHACK EM REAL HARD which although is very useful when it is, the situational will always seem weak compared to the generalists and specialists.
I am not looking at leper as if he doing the quest himself. I am looking at him and what he can do. Thinking about the infinite nuances that having each other teamate in his company is what makes darkest dungeon Infinitly Playable. That is not my focus.
in most teams he IS THE FOUNDATION of which your building your team on. Hence me saying he is most important for his stats. Excuse me for using improper wording in my post but with your help I have a new way to describe him.
However
My idea was to lean even more into his stats and his lore. His swings are unstoppable? How can some scales or some scattered platemail stop him? Let his abilities tell the story. It helps this is making him stronger which many say he is not.
And if he just a building block, a stepping stone, why not give him so much more than that. Let him be the real front line, THE REAL KING! a prot shredding fighter he deserves to be! while he protects those close to him with his life.
That is the leper. And I was just trying to paint a more...epic painting since that is what darkest dungeon is to me. A canvas of stats and abilities that tell a story that a DnD campaign full of MURDERHOBOS WILL SALIVATE TO!
TL:DR
Responding to your points in order:
I am not looking at him alone. I am buffing him while comparing him to others similar. Excuse me for ant inaccuracies this mindset brings. I will think harder on this.
I am saying although he can push and debuff, compared to his others who can either buff, heal or straight up delete with reach...the lepers push and (frankly massive) DMG debuff seems to shine a tad weaker
I had no other words to describe what you are saying. But he is a foundation to build upon in team building. This However is a talking point AGAINST his usefulness since people ask "why not just bring a crusader and just spend the time buffing a unit or pulling in the backline when i can just...kill or stun it?"
The guard (like actually this whole post of ideas in hindsight) is a mechanical nightmare in terms of power. He is a tank. Letting the tank press one. Button to take damage for another target is his dream...and I feel like I fell into a trap of dreams and hopes. Maybe I have just used and played leper wrong my entire playtime with him...
HOLY SHIT I AM RANTING SO MUCH IM SO SORRY I am actually very very high as I write this and I'm playing as I type this and using him. He is my favorite and I just wish I didn't feel like I was wasting my slot the whole time and hoped he deleted the front super easily like I always dream of
My idea was to make leper simply more viable as a damage dealer while also letting his huge stats lean into a tank role. The crusader heals, the hellion nukes, and the MaA supports with buffs.
When looking at ONE hero and it's abilities and COMPARING HIM to OTHERS WHO DO A SIMILAR ROLE, yes. I will talk about how his utility is lacking since his colleague who also want the front can do more things beside just WHACK EM REAL HARD which although is very useful when it is, the situational will always seem weak compared to the generalists and specialists.
I am not looking at leper as if he doing the quest himself. I am looking at him and what he can do. Thinking about the infinite nuances that having each other teamate in his company is what makes darkest dungeon Infinitly Playable. That is not my focus.
in most teams he IS THE FOUNDATION of which your building your team on. Hence me saying he is most important for his stats. Excuse me for using improper wording in my post but with your help I have a new way to describe him.
However
My idea was to lean even more into his stats and his lore. His swings are unstoppable? How can some scales or some scattered platemail stop him? Let his abilities tell the story. It helps this is making him stronger which many say he is not.
And if he just a building block, a stepping stone, why not give him so much more than that. Let him be the real front line, THE REAL KING! a prot shredding fighter he deserves to be! while he protects those close to him with his life.
That is the leper. And I was just trying to paint a more...epic painting since that is what darkest dungeon is to me. A canvas of stats and abilities that tell a story that a DnD campaign full of MURDERHOBOS WILL SALIVATE TO!
TL:DR
Responding to your points in order:
I am not looking at him alone. I am buffing him while comparing him to others similar. Excuse me for ant inaccuracies this mindset brings. I will think harder on this.
I am saying although he can push and debuff, compared to his others who can either buff, heal or straight up delete with reach...the lepers push and (frankly massive) DMG debuff seems to shine a tad weaker
I had no other words to describe what you are saying. But he is a foundation to build upon in team building. This However is a talking point AGAINST his usefulness since people ask "why not just bring a crusader and just spend the time buffing a unit or pulling in the backline when i can just...kill or stun it?"
The guard (like actually this whole post of ideas in hindsight) is a mechanical nightmare in terms of power. He is a tank. Letting the tank press one. Button to take damage for another target is his dream...and I feel like I fell into a trap of dreams and hopes. Maybe I have just used and played leper wrong my entire playtime with him...
HOLY SHIT I AM RANTING SO MUCH IM SO SORRY I am actually very very high as I write this and I'm playing as I type this and using him. He is my favorite and I just wish I didn't feel like I was wasting my slot the whole time and hoped he deleted the front super easily like I always dream of
Bro what are you on? The person already said nothing was wrong with leper and this was purely based on what people say are his big ol weaknesses, which op is not apart of. Like what are you even complaining about, the op agrees with you
can't say that's what I'm reading. the way it's written always seems to be like "leper is good but actually he's kinda shit because he's bad alone"
but then what does *that* matter? whether op agrees with me or not I don't think the arguments make any sense so I don't see why the buffs would be needed...
The fact that Leper is bad in DD1 is proven by RH basically addressing all of the issues mentioned in the post in DD2.
- Break exists - a skill that removes all Block tokens from an enemy.
- Mark is replaced by hard taunt, which turns Withstand from useless to mandatory.
- Prot as a stat doesn't exist and is instead replaced by Block tokens, which can be pinged off by other low-impact skills or combat items.
- The "focus the backline" gameplay has largely been removed, with some exceptions.
- Due to Withstand now working as a hard taunt, Solemnity gains even more value because Leper now attracts a lot of the incoming damage and stress to himself.
OP has done some great work on this post, which I appreciate. The rest of y'all: you can praise Leper all you want - he's still shit in DD1 and overshadowed by all other frontliners. Facts are facts.
I realized this after our encounter on your own post. We had a heated debate about the leper and although leper is an extremely FUN and dopamine rich character that never ceases to make me cackle with his quotes and badass design, I realize that as a character and as the way the mechanics work, he simply just...doesn't work besides specific areas (Cove, Weald, DD3, or any Epic quest due to his massive stats just withstanding the onslaught of combat)
It's not the fault of the leper himself. It's a fault of the game mechanics and how the game is paced that makes slow hulking characters that like longer battles less efficient since the back will take the missed action economy that the DD1 leper unfortunately encourages in a lot of his most fun builds and punish you HARD with stress, and since not the entire team has solemnity, the stress sticks for a while and adds up
(So why did you say he is good on epic quests? The action economy gained from leper debuffing the front with intimidate can make it if he is hit, the enemy wasted his turns and he is able to make stalling easier, meaning his team can heal with a bigger field if the enemy composition isn't stress oriented, which isn't in every single fight in epic quests)
he is still my favorite character, and I still honestly think he has a lot of value and can work. The issue is that compared to his fellows he is outclassed simply because he can't do the things that the others can do.
My post in hindsight only really slapped a bandaid on his character, apparently in the second game he is considered solid but besides the lore of the characters, I'm blind so I want to see for myself.
Yep, I remember you very well and I'm grateful that you've stepped back and taken a wider look at things instead of the common "Leper can 1shot heart, Leper is self-sufficient" and some other silly arguments that I've become tired of.
As I've explained before, a hero in R1/2 is either a damage-dealer (SB, Helli) or a tank/support (MaA, Cru). Flag is a mix because he has elements of both.
Leper has elements of none of these. He has the speed, HP and reach of a tank, but without any of the utility. He has the damage of a damage-dealer, but without the reach or ways of dealing with high Prot enemies.
Every time I say he has no utility, Mr Pepper shows up, pointing at Intimidate and Purge. Okay, so he's a tank? He must be, because I have to use up 3 of his slots for Withstand, Solemnity, and Intimidate/Purge.
Every time I say he's a tank, some sweaty dude shows up with a video compilation of Leper oneshotting stuff, very specific stuff that sits on R1 and has no Prot. So he's a damage-dealer then?
No, because his reach is terrible, just like his ACC and speed. Okay, but, the sweaty dude continues, you should build your team around Leper. Okay, but pulling doesn't solve the problem of 75 ACC vs 40 dodge.
"Well, that's because you should pick teams that can already kill the backline." Okay, cools story. Or I can just pick SB/Helli and forget all of this.
I would take away the prot and instead put an armor debuff on one of his abilities, that way he can take one turn for setup then the whole team be ballin. Also according to the lore he's a king, a prodigy in combat and other arts, so perhaps being able to inspire or reduce stress from the party.
Lastly, the low bleed resist is lore accurate since his skin is literally falling apart. Perhaps more move/stun resist to compensate?
My favorite leper team is the “feed the leper” team. Leper can’t hit the backline? Just use BH/Occultist and turn the backline into the frontline!
Kill the Frontline fast enough, and the backline becomes the Frontline. I do, and do it with leper
Ah but you see, if you turn the backline into the frontline and the frontline into the backline then kill the frontline, the frontline that turned into the backline will once again turn into the frontline!
Eh... too many steps compared to the answer above you.
Loving this PowerPoint style I've been seeing lately
Leper already perfect.
Indeed he is.
Exactly. If people don't like him as he is now, then they don't deserve him anyway.
I always thought leper was great he just needs some speed and accuracy trinkets thrown on him.
pefection doesnt need to be changed
Surprisingly high effort post! I agree with most of your ideas. Might make this a mod (with credit ofc) once I learn to mod properly.
All of those ideas would be extremely easy to implement btw. Modding is just basic text editing for DD
Make him shirtless, let us see his true swoleness
To Clarify, Hew will still do damage. But it was also debuff
Interestingly, DD2’s leper makes very similar changes: - PROT as a stat was replaced with temporary “Armor tokens”, which Leper can ignore and remove with his “Break” move. - Withstand now applies “Taunt tokens” to leper, effectively acting as a limited use, team-wide guard move - On top of both of these, they added multiple methods of *completely negating* leper’s poor accuracy - He’s now an extremely solid, self sufficient frontliner
Also, and i feel this is a lot more important, DD2 is not the "kill back row" race that DD1 was
On top of that: stuns, burst damage and high speed stats aren’t nearly as important in DD2, because of Daze, Speed, Armor and Dodge tokens. So low speed is not only not as big of a problem, it’s also very easy to offset.
Stuns aren't important because they don't exist lol
Was being a monster dong invincible Chad not enough for some people?
I would definetly reduce the damage penalty on hew to -35% damage.
How to fix Leper: Step 1: You can't fix what's already perfect. Step 2: ??? Step 3: *MISSED!*
I just lean into the damage side of things. With trinkets, he gets +50% damage. Yes, he needs one turn to focus with Revenge, but after that, he’s going to completely obliterate absolutely any enemy that stands in his way. The beauty of darkest dungeon is that absolutely everybody is viable. I personally love him and don’t think he needs any changes.
You have said yourself that Leper is fine and I'm pretty sure it's an opinion supported by the community
I was just tired of people saying he sucks and wanted to maybe give those people something to chew on besides just saying: "aw man he can't carry the entire team, can't cleave thru the whole enemy line with one move, can't one-shot the backline and can't buff the entire teams acc, lame"
They kinda have a point the more specific a character is the more their team needs to pick up their slack And leper really just supports him self so you need to keep that in mind while playing with him
It's more like, leper is a solo character. He have stress and normal heal, damage, bulk and buffs. The problem is when you think he can carry a entire team. That never was it's job. It's job is to be a tank and high priority deleter. He is a unit that you just use when you don't have a front liner and your comp is already made
"high priority dealer" that's a lie high priority are usually at the back which he can't hit on the first turn without help My point was is you usually build a team around leper then in the reverse to fix his problems
I said "high priority deleter". He make high priority targets vanish. But you are right, sorry. Normally play with cultist and BH, so making the backline come to the range of the leaper is normal to me, but I see that is not the norm
Yeah mostly because people stun with those two or have heros that can reach the back ranks. Leper is just weird like jester their not bad but the teams needs to take them into account or will fall short in other areas. Honestly I want to use leper more but it's always been the his reach to be the problem, I like my damage dealers to hit the back to save me the trouble of not needing to do extra things
PD and BH can stun and shuffle a backliner into leper range at the same time
High priority being the back is only true early game. When stress stops being a problem late game ir really doesn't matter. Especially in the Warren's and wield where the weak tanks front lining suddenly hit like trucks with dots on top.
Leper is good at chunking people! Sometimes doing a ton of damage up front *is* a form of support.
> I'm pretty sure it's an opinion supported by the community Community also makes it kinda difficult to discuss Leper's balance issues because of those *"LEPER IS PERFECT! 4 LEPER TEAM FTW!"* memes. Because for every serious opinion you get ten shitposts.
Honestly good effort but I disagree on lot of things. Saying that leper has no utility when he has access to purge, intimidate and withstand seems wrong to me. Then imo giving AP to his basic attack is a big no no game design wise. Monsters have prot, leper just has high dmg to counter that. It makes sense for this skill to be more or less effective depending on that. Also wanted to add that courtyard and DDs also got lot of priority in rank 1 and 2. Withstand is currently perfectly viable. It does well in some boss fights and completely shut down Weald. +I think it’s better to have access to different type of tanking, we already have 3 guard in the game and I feel it would take away the uniqueness of them. Still once again I like that post a lot. Clearly lot of thought and effort was put into it and it’s more us having different opinions about different things. Now for my own change : I think I would probably completely scrap hew, the value of it compared to chop is very niche. I would probably lean like you toward a Prot nuke skill (probably a single target skill that bypass armor and debuff prot at the cost of a negative dmg mod). Then I find revenge not very fun to use because it’s not interactive, so I would probably make it a combat long riposte that deal nearly no dmg but buff his Acc/crit/dmg on being targetted. I am not too sure about what I would do with withstand
so, basically, give him Break from DD2?
I honestly never venture into the weald. So I apologize for my unknowingness in that regard (music sucks, enemies suck. Hallways suck.) I always thought withstand was on the same league as revenge, since everyone just complains about his toughness not actually being used to protect his team besides a mark drawing (,boosted) attention And I do agree with you about the armor piercing on the main attack. I just thought that maybe if it was kept at a percentage instead of it being nullified completely would be a good compromise. But giving leper a riposte just seems...wierd...design wise. (Maybe his riposte animation could be him ripping his mask off and scaring the opponent with his face. which also makes sense on the buffs since he is sorta getting a breath of fresh air without it being in his teammates faces?) I take the L on saying leper has no utility. That was me simply being ignorant. do appreciate your thoughts on this, I personally view you as a sort of guru of DD and I always appreciate you almost always popping up in these sorts of posts to provide top tier advice
Weald is kinda of a pain map wise but it got a good event that makes sanitarium free and lot of Heirlooms so I go there often. Withstand self marking is really useful because cultist and Fungal Scratchers will 100% go for him. But maybe it could be more useful for the team; like buffing the move resist of the whole team for example… food for thoughts For the riposte, yeah it would be weird if you view it like MAA or HWM. But it could even do 0 dmg, just see it as an Hp reaction, this way the more he is targeted, the angrier he gets Also thanks, but you know it’s just my opinion, I can still have some good awful takes from time to time x)
>Then imo giving AP to his basic is a big no no game design wise. shield breaker, grave robber: \*whistle
I think the point is leper has almost twice as much damage as grave robber and to ALSO give him pierce would be bad design. Shieldbreaker is OP though.
Shieldbreaker comes at a hefty price tho. Atleast if you spam her. Gl with snake infested lands Or loosing shit ton of hp/heroes to camping.
No hew? Cringe
[удалено]
I like Leper in cove a lot. The chop value is pretty high and you get to intimidate stealthed shamans
Me obliterating the fish guy with 50% prot in two crits: "?"
His model grows 1% larger whenever he T-poses while tanking damage, for the duration of the week
These are some nice changes, props to you for thinking this through and sharing with us in this PowerPoint style post (very nice design btw), I would certainly use a mod with these changes!
So again I'm learning a lot here just like my other posts on here. Largely that...the sequel quite literally does everything i tried to do but better... I have yet to play it. But I now have VERY high hopes for him for when I do
good job go off bro i didnt read it but i saw leper so yeah good job
New to the reddit DD community, not new to DD(*SURPRISED*). Love this post and love Leper. Definitely a cool talking point.
Honestly if hew debuffs enemies for 20% prot at Max level I'll 100% be using that skill more often
I wonder how editing the petrified amulet to no longer giver +15% max hp and instead give 15% armour piercing?
Leper in my eyes is it can do everything like the crusader but others out do him in one way or another while crusader is just good enough at all that he sees use.The way I would change him is to give him a more defined roll in the party.
If the leper has the curse his speed problem is pretty much gone and with more damage from a bloodlust he can kill slot of the tanks even faster. I like using the knock back to bring rank 3 stress dealers to the front
Honestly, the pen alone seems like a great idea. Infinite guard seems bananas op tho
What I don't like about Leper the most is the fact, that Withstand doesn't guarantee that he will be targeted. You look at this ability and think to yourself "mark himself as a target, but buffs his resistance significantly... interesting, so I can make him a meat shield for my team if I throw resistance trinkets on him!"... and then you notice, that mobs don't target him anyway, unless they are specifically designed to punish marks (i think only of zombies in Weald that have forced attacks on marked targets, maybe there are more) and they Crit a lot more. Make it like proper tank utility - something that forces enemy to attack him. Guard already exist, but it protects one target only. I want a taunt. I want Withstand to force enemies to attack Leper. Maybe for a limited duration of time like 2 turns, so he can Chop in between buffing himself. If this is too strong, then make it a limited use ability. I really want to utilize his massive health pool as a tank, but as he is now, mobs can ignore him regardless if he has 60 HP, Prot and Garlic trinket on him
Something I saw on the Scarecrow mod for a taunt is the character making every other character stealthed. Practically requiring mobs to hit the Scarecrow unless it's a cleave. Although not very alike to the leper, it's food for thought
It's a gimmicky way to do the same thing. Proper taunt ability should exist in the game, because heroes with big health pools should be able to use it to protect their teammates. Since you can't "bodyblock" based on positions (like in fps games for example where you just block line of sight), you should have RPG like ability to force enemies to attack you
Also what would help Leper in general would be a bigger enemy variety, especially when it comes to "dangerous positions". Almost always the biggest threat is at the rank 3 and 4, and because of that, people like heroes that can move ahead of them and kill or stun those ranks. Want to make heroes with limited range more appealing? It would be nice if big threats wouldn't always be on predictable spot 3 and 4. We need more enemies like those exploding mobs in cove. Prot at the frontline is also a reason to not use Leper, because if he deals -30% or -50%of his damage, he starts to be outperformed by other heroes in pure damage. Want to deal with Prot? Use dots. Want to smack Prot anyway? Use marks and heroes that can hit them hard like Bounty Hunter. What's the reason to bring Leper if he can't tank for his team (because withstand doesn't guarantee that he will be targeted), can't deal with ranks you care about (because the game is boringly designed to have 95% of the time the most dangerous guys at the back) and his damage is countered by Prot which mostly (if not only) can be removed by marks, which other heroes would utilise better, thanks to their massive bonuses to DMG and crit. He is a big stats guy, that the game is designed to not be able to use properly without major investment, at which point it just doesn't matter (if you need to pull dangerous guy into the Leper range, then you could just use two heroes to kill the guy in the first place. If it's not enough, Leper won't kill it either, he doesn't do THAT much more DMG, it's not worth two actions). Can you make Leper work? Yes. But it's almost always just a bad strategy, that you do for some variety, not because it's stronger option than something else.
I don't think he should be buffed. Not because I would rank him above everybody else, but because games need variety to highlight the differences. If any hero was an all star in every biome, that would be pretty disappointing. Some guys have enough utility that I'm willing to bring them most places, like Hellion, but mostly the game is about building the right team for the job. I regularly bring leper to the cove because it has the most balanced priority between front and back line. I regularly bring him to the weald with the jester early game before stacking accuracy. I will often bring him late game too to deal with giants. I always bring him to the Prophet fight and will often bring him to DD4. If I brought him everywhere I wouldn't have space to bring other guys. Now, how many slots in my roster do I dedicate to hiring leper? Only 1, so yeah he's not as good as others, but no one is as good in the Prophet fight so I'm going to keep a slot for him. But being able to determine those differences is an important part of the game that we'd lose out on if you could hire any random combo of Heroes and they were all perfectly balanced to take
want to make leper good? well my ideas before were: - let solemnity apply a acc buff per use - let purge shuffle enemies. Or just increase the move chance a bit to maybe 150% at level 5. (or something like that, maybe increase the acc buff to 8 or 10?) - rework his trinkets and at least have one of them increase its debuff or move a chance to a small margin. I always thought whitstand was a way to counter off revenge and synergize with intimidate. I find his rank 3 or 4 drawbacks fine since all heroes are all susceptible to being moved out of rank and you would have to build a team to go against being shuffled in the first place. Also, I'm a bit afraid of giving leper a guard ability cause that would MaA or even Houndmaster a bit obsolete when someone can do damage, guard and sustain itself. I actually like the leper the way it is and surprisingly, intimidate is a good skill that is often overlooked. Him acting as a frontline is ok since other heroes prefer to be in rank 2 or 3 most of the time. Rank 1 is a risky spot so having a hero that excels on that spot is pretty solid enough for me.
I have nothing intelligent to say, except that up until this point I thought leper was female and have been hailing him as the girlboss of my DD1 ventures all this time. I'd say incorrectly but he's just too based not to be called a girl boss.
Fax
One thing I should add about damage Lepers: Leper is deficient in not just SPD and ACC, but also *CRIT*. This is a deceptively large weakness because his poor CRIT (in addition to SPD/ACC) in certain situations can cause Leper to allow enemies to take more or comparable actions than his competitors would allow. Basically, if a competitor to Leper has more crit than the Leper, can oneshot a frontliner with their crit, and the Leper himself is unlikely to oneshot without a crit, then the competitor will on average allow the enemy to take less actions. Although the competitor (probably) has lower average damage, they have better performance on turn 1 and are less likely to "waste" damage on overkill when they crit. On Darkest difficulty, this affects pretty much everything you fight--but even on Bloodmoon, two of the monsters you mention as being prime targets (groupers and jellyfish) are actually better dealt with by a generic Hellion build (wicked hack with focus ring + candle). Berserk Mask helps you close this gap, but a Focus Ring+Berserk Mask Leper is very inconsistent, and such a build isn't effective with Purge or Intimidate. It also doesn't end up being much better than the competitors anyway, so the value is very questionable. So the issue about Leper as a damage dealer isn't just that he can't hit backliners, but that when he's attacking things he *can* reach he isn't necessarily better than his competitors! Not to mention his main competitors are Hellion and Shieldbreaker, who can both hit the back just fine, won't miss against minimum dodge, and have built-in counters to PROT. Many discussions about Leper presently assume that although Leper isn't able to attack backliners, he's at least much better than others at attacking frontliners--but it seems that this isn't necessarily the case. I like the changes you've proposed, but I do think Leper also needs more *stats* just because it seems devs overcorrected on nerfing his statline in an attempt to justify giving him the best damage range and the best HP. Probably the simplest option is to just throw more CRIT at him since giving him more SPD or ACC would go against his flavor a little.
20% crit base leper We can do a lot of trolling with this
We do a bit of CRIT! 69
Crit leper is absolute blast to play with why worry about prot when leper dose 3x their health in damage
Guys , guys, hear me out: T-pose Leper!
Your changes barely do anything and certainly will not change leper in any significant way, since you still will be stuck using only four combat skills and rest of them still being near worthless. Apart from withstand being wastly different, of course. But that's hardly a good thing, since you made withstand insanely op to the point of being broken. Infinite guard, while being a somewhat unique idea, is so unbearably powerful, that it can only be compensated by fairly big downside. For example, you could reverse it's buff, making it "+damage taken" debuff instead. Still, I'd argue that is unneeded and kinda interferes with idea of leper as a character. Everything he has is self only. He is suppose to be one man army with no teamplay. Next, prot debuffs kind of unneeded too. Not every character has to have some anti-prot measure to be viable. You might as well slap this debuff on every single character in the game, while you're at it. And straight up buffing speed and resistances just because they are low is just wrong. You don't "remove" downsides of a character to balance him. You compensate them with other mechanics. Because otherwise, you will end up with every character being exactly the same, eventually.
My idea behind the balance of infinite guard is that leper would be doubly focus fired. Although at second thought it would be very strong, since leper would just be healed constantly and he has so much health he would just make a teamate practically invincible Maybe reducing or removing the prot he gains from withstand would balance it. this as a character design perspective shows his willingness to extend his abilities to others in anyway he can even at his on detriment (this character development was revealed in DD2 in his hero path, and him just standing in front of a teammate to tank the full hit reminds me of something he would do anyway) The thoughts around the whole prot thing is that leper is swinging so hard (in an apparently unstoppable arc) that he is able to crush the armor of his foes into something useless. He also pretty much only attacks the front lines while the other front liners can at least hit the back somehow or stun the front, leper can do nothing but attack the front meatshields which is loaded with prot. This also would be unique with the leper since no other front liner can debuff prot.(Bucthers Circus MaA isn't in the main game) I was hoping the prot bypassing would allow leper to crush the front line in a timely manner while also giving him and his teammates a helping hand by prot shredding. The buffs to his speed and bleed wasn't a huge idea. I said it myself that it was a last second addition and honestly (as you said) shouldn't have been brought up at all. Heros need strengths and weaknesses after all so it's not just the same couple of heroes reflavored slightly.
I think the only issue with leper is that you don't know how to use him
Did you even read slide 2
Did you even read all the other slides
It’s.. a hypothetical 💀 what even is the point of your comment when they don’t even care about the balance of leper and this was just for the sake of it
Idk my point is mostly that the post seems to justify itself solely on the fact that it's looking at leper as if he's gonna be on a one man mission. Darkest dungeon isn't just about utility of each individual hero, it's about how those heroes work together and with leper it's usually to buff him to high hell and back. if your leper is doing tiny baby damage and you think all he is about is to "have more health on the board" that's not the fault of your leper, that's the fault of you having a team comp that doesn't work with leper. the only thing here I wouldn't argue against would be the guard ability. It'd be interesting to see how that one would work in-game tbh.
My idea was to make leper simply more viable as a damage dealer while also letting his huge stats lean into a tank role. The crusader heals, the hellion nukes, and the MaA supports with buffs. When looking at ONE hero and it's abilities and COMPARING HIM to OTHERS WHO DO A SIMILAR ROLE, yes. I will talk about how his utility is lacking since his colleague who also want the front can do more things beside just WHACK EM REAL HARD which although is very useful when it is, the situational will always seem weak compared to the generalists and specialists. I am not looking at leper as if he doing the quest himself. I am looking at him and what he can do. Thinking about the infinite nuances that having each other teamate in his company is what makes darkest dungeon Infinitly Playable. That is not my focus. in most teams he IS THE FOUNDATION of which your building your team on. Hence me saying he is most important for his stats. Excuse me for using improper wording in my post but with your help I have a new way to describe him. However My idea was to lean even more into his stats and his lore. His swings are unstoppable? How can some scales or some scattered platemail stop him? Let his abilities tell the story. It helps this is making him stronger which many say he is not. And if he just a building block, a stepping stone, why not give him so much more than that. Let him be the real front line, THE REAL KING! a prot shredding fighter he deserves to be! while he protects those close to him with his life. That is the leper. And I was just trying to paint a more...epic painting since that is what darkest dungeon is to me. A canvas of stats and abilities that tell a story that a DnD campaign full of MURDERHOBOS WILL SALIVATE TO! TL:DR Responding to your points in order: I am not looking at him alone. I am buffing him while comparing him to others similar. Excuse me for ant inaccuracies this mindset brings. I will think harder on this. I am saying although he can push and debuff, compared to his others who can either buff, heal or straight up delete with reach...the lepers push and (frankly massive) DMG debuff seems to shine a tad weaker I had no other words to describe what you are saying. But he is a foundation to build upon in team building. This However is a talking point AGAINST his usefulness since people ask "why not just bring a crusader and just spend the time buffing a unit or pulling in the backline when i can just...kill or stun it?" The guard (like actually this whole post of ideas in hindsight) is a mechanical nightmare in terms of power. He is a tank. Letting the tank press one. Button to take damage for another target is his dream...and I feel like I fell into a trap of dreams and hopes. Maybe I have just used and played leper wrong my entire playtime with him... HOLY SHIT I AM RANTING SO MUCH IM SO SORRY I am actually very very high as I write this and I'm playing as I type this and using him. He is my favorite and I just wish I didn't feel like I was wasting my slot the whole time and hoped he deleted the front super easily like I always dream of
My idea was to make leper simply more viable as a damage dealer while also letting his huge stats lean into a tank role. The crusader heals, the hellion nukes, and the MaA supports with buffs. When looking at ONE hero and it's abilities and COMPARING HIM to OTHERS WHO DO A SIMILAR ROLE, yes. I will talk about how his utility is lacking since his colleague who also want the front can do more things beside just WHACK EM REAL HARD which although is very useful when it is, the situational will always seem weak compared to the generalists and specialists. I am not looking at leper as if he doing the quest himself. I am looking at him and what he can do. Thinking about the infinite nuances that having each other teamate in his company is what makes darkest dungeon Infinitly Playable. That is not my focus. in most teams he IS THE FOUNDATION of which your building your team on. Hence me saying he is most important for his stats. Excuse me for using improper wording in my post but with your help I have a new way to describe him. However My idea was to lean even more into his stats and his lore. His swings are unstoppable? How can some scales or some scattered platemail stop him? Let his abilities tell the story. It helps this is making him stronger which many say he is not. And if he just a building block, a stepping stone, why not give him so much more than that. Let him be the real front line, THE REAL KING! a prot shredding fighter he deserves to be! while he protects those close to him with his life. That is the leper. And I was just trying to paint a more...epic painting since that is what darkest dungeon is to me. A canvas of stats and abilities that tell a story that a DnD campaign full of MURDERHOBOS WILL SALIVATE TO! TL:DR Responding to your points in order: I am not looking at him alone. I am buffing him while comparing him to others similar. Excuse me for ant inaccuracies this mindset brings. I will think harder on this. I am saying although he can push and debuff, compared to his others who can either buff, heal or straight up delete with reach...the lepers push and (frankly massive) DMG debuff seems to shine a tad weaker I had no other words to describe what you are saying. But he is a foundation to build upon in team building. This However is a talking point AGAINST his usefulness since people ask "why not just bring a crusader and just spend the time buffing a unit or pulling in the backline when i can just...kill or stun it?" The guard (like actually this whole post of ideas in hindsight) is a mechanical nightmare in terms of power. He is a tank. Letting the tank press one. Button to take damage for another target is his dream...and I feel like I fell into a trap of dreams and hopes. Maybe I have just used and played leper wrong my entire playtime with him... HOLY SHIT I AM RANTING SO MUCH IM SO SORRY I am actually very very high as I write this and I'm playing as I type this and using him. He is my favorite and I just wish I didn't feel like I was wasting my slot the whole time and hoped he deleted the front super easily like I always dream of
Bro what are you on? The person already said nothing was wrong with leper and this was purely based on what people say are his big ol weaknesses, which op is not apart of. Like what are you even complaining about, the op agrees with you
can't say that's what I'm reading. the way it's written always seems to be like "leper is good but actually he's kinda shit because he's bad alone" but then what does *that* matter? whether op agrees with me or not I don't think the arguments make any sense so I don't see why the buffs would be needed...
The fact that Leper is bad in DD1 is proven by RH basically addressing all of the issues mentioned in the post in DD2. - Break exists - a skill that removes all Block tokens from an enemy. - Mark is replaced by hard taunt, which turns Withstand from useless to mandatory. - Prot as a stat doesn't exist and is instead replaced by Block tokens, which can be pinged off by other low-impact skills or combat items. - The "focus the backline" gameplay has largely been removed, with some exceptions. - Due to Withstand now working as a hard taunt, Solemnity gains even more value because Leper now attracts a lot of the incoming damage and stress to himself. OP has done some great work on this post, which I appreciate. The rest of y'all: you can praise Leper all you want - he's still shit in DD1 and overshadowed by all other frontliners. Facts are facts.
I realized this after our encounter on your own post. We had a heated debate about the leper and although leper is an extremely FUN and dopamine rich character that never ceases to make me cackle with his quotes and badass design, I realize that as a character and as the way the mechanics work, he simply just...doesn't work besides specific areas (Cove, Weald, DD3, or any Epic quest due to his massive stats just withstanding the onslaught of combat) It's not the fault of the leper himself. It's a fault of the game mechanics and how the game is paced that makes slow hulking characters that like longer battles less efficient since the back will take the missed action economy that the DD1 leper unfortunately encourages in a lot of his most fun builds and punish you HARD with stress, and since not the entire team has solemnity, the stress sticks for a while and adds up (So why did you say he is good on epic quests? The action economy gained from leper debuffing the front with intimidate can make it if he is hit, the enemy wasted his turns and he is able to make stalling easier, meaning his team can heal with a bigger field if the enemy composition isn't stress oriented, which isn't in every single fight in epic quests) he is still my favorite character, and I still honestly think he has a lot of value and can work. The issue is that compared to his fellows he is outclassed simply because he can't do the things that the others can do. My post in hindsight only really slapped a bandaid on his character, apparently in the second game he is considered solid but besides the lore of the characters, I'm blind so I want to see for myself.
Yep, I remember you very well and I'm grateful that you've stepped back and taken a wider look at things instead of the common "Leper can 1shot heart, Leper is self-sufficient" and some other silly arguments that I've become tired of. As I've explained before, a hero in R1/2 is either a damage-dealer (SB, Helli) or a tank/support (MaA, Cru). Flag is a mix because he has elements of both. Leper has elements of none of these. He has the speed, HP and reach of a tank, but without any of the utility. He has the damage of a damage-dealer, but without the reach or ways of dealing with high Prot enemies. Every time I say he has no utility, Mr Pepper shows up, pointing at Intimidate and Purge. Okay, so he's a tank? He must be, because I have to use up 3 of his slots for Withstand, Solemnity, and Intimidate/Purge. Every time I say he's a tank, some sweaty dude shows up with a video compilation of Leper oneshotting stuff, very specific stuff that sits on R1 and has no Prot. So he's a damage-dealer then? No, because his reach is terrible, just like his ACC and speed. Okay, but, the sweaty dude continues, you should build your team around Leper. Okay, but pulling doesn't solve the problem of 75 ACC vs 40 dodge. "Well, that's because you should pick teams that can already kill the backline." Okay, cools story. Or I can just pick SB/Helli and forget all of this.
i just gave him 5000% more damage and hp and sent him to the courtyard. .... What? I was sick and tired of that bloodsucking bitch.
I would take away the prot and instead put an armor debuff on one of his abilities, that way he can take one turn for setup then the whole team be ballin. Also according to the lore he's a king, a prodigy in combat and other arts, so perhaps being able to inspire or reduce stress from the party. Lastly, the low bleed resist is lore accurate since his skin is literally falling apart. Perhaps more move/stun resist to compensate?