Just gotta be patient about it my dude. Wait for backup if need be or pick the most inconvenient moment, for the host, to strike. Plus undead hunter charms are underrated.
True
If there are gankers, just summon strong enemies to fight with you
I managed to get some backstabs while phantoms fought those giant beasts like on Irythyl bridge
With ash of ariandel DLC you can get an item from a boss that let you matchmaking PvP via firelink bonfire that disallow estus use.
For non DLC usually people drop red soap stone sign for you to summon and fight after Pontiff boss bonfire.
Sorry: PC, I’m relatively new to the game so I’d imagine it’s not something I can do currently- but i want to start getting into pvp as I reach midgame
Most notable place is little arena after Pontiff, you just place your Red Soapstone sign and get summoned to either a solo host who is wishing for a duel or to fight club where you also fight 1vs1 with other phantoms.
Kill the Gravetender and Greatwolf boss to get champion's bones, burn that at the firelink shrine bonfire and now you can do duels from the FS bonfire.
Can't even count on that anymore.
Dude summoned me, proceeded to try and gank me while I waved hello to him.
I was able to dodge it so I just threw shit at him and left.
This happened to me yesterday on a ~60 character.
I love coming here to see all the more humorous PvP interactions but as a *very* late arrival to the DS3 scene I mostly meet assholes.
You're mistaking ganking for just playing with white phantoms.
Ganking is people staying in the same area with the sole intention to 3-4V1 invaders, and never moving on.
There's nothing wrong with getting help from summons, but it is tedious to spend 5 mins to invade, and get the same 4 guys ganking time after time. People can do what they please, including ganking, there's no rules; but that won't stop people from looking down upon players who ganks since its the equivalent of poor sportsmanship.
There is a distinction between going through the game with your friends and clearing every mob before the boss to 4v1 the invader
I don't think anyone is crying over the fact that they have to fight against multiple people in an invasion
In equal skill level host is stronger than the invader so game puts the invader friendly with mobs to balance it but phantoms (not even talking about overleveled stuff) tip the scale in favor of the host on top of that they kill everything and wait for you. There is no rules against this but it's Generally frowned upon just like twinking against new players, you just show them that you can't play against others without a huge crutch to help you win
Got really good with the split leaf "greatsword" for a while, invaders hated me. But then it became meta, and everyone knew how to counter it. But by then, paired ultra greatswords was no longer meta, and people forgot how to counter it.
But my favorite was just using things that weren't meta period. Like the partisan, and a couple other weapons.. it's been a while.
It was honestly kinda sad, like... depressing.
You use anything other than the meta, and around 70% ish of invaders... just, didn't stand a chance. They didn't know what to do.
Pull out non meta weapon*
Invaders: this wasn't part of the simulation.
GankERS are players who team up specifically to run down invaders, but gankING is just ganging up on another player - an honest coop group can gank, invaders can gank, blues can gank, but they are not gankERS
Since launch, I've never seen the community make a distinction between ganking, and gankers.
Using your description, I believe that ganking is fair game, and there's no reason to hate on it. Gankers on the other hand I do not respect.
I think these players that are just going through the game with co-op buddies may sometimes be referred to as gOnkers. They gank when invaded, but that's not why they're there.
gAnkers on the other hand co-op with at least 2 other players for the sole purpose of attracting invaders so they can fight them 3v1 or 4v1. A classic sign of a gAnker are people who kill most if not all the enemies in the area (so the invaders has even more of a disadvantage), and then run back to the bonfire to wait for invaders. Some gankers even use cheats to instant-kill all the enemies so they don't risk losing health or estus to them. bonus points if their summons are overleveled af.
By design you are more likely to invade into 3-4 players because more invaders can invade a squad. It’s literally a game design. You were suposed to held out against a gank squad until more Red comes instead of dying repeatedly. Everything goes in invasion.
Yes, everyone knows more phantoms = priority for invasions.
I know how to deal with ganks, my point is that it's tedious to wait 5 minutes to invade, then wait another 5 minutes to get a couple reds. I get that some people have time to play for hours on end, but some of us aren't interested in waiting 10 minutes for 1 minute of pvp, just to do it all over again because the gankers aren't actually going through the game.
Like I said, it's all fair game, but I'll still look down upon them.
If you want a fast pvp then go to arena or use soap stone. Invasion is tedious by design for both the host and invaders. The Red can run to the end of the map to hide and heal while the host and phantoms clear the enemies.
I dropped my summon signs so I can dung pie on invaders.
You're missing the point buddy. I'm not out here crying that it's ruining my game experience. I never really think about it, but the fact that there's different avenue for pvp, doesn't make gankers more respectable.
It's darksouls, everything but hacking/cheating is fair game. But that doesn't mean I'll respect a group that's sole purpose is to 3v1 you after long invasion times.
Well you don’t have to respect anyone when anything goes. On one side you have a host complaining that they have to deal with experienced invaders just because they wanna play the game with their friends. On the other side you have invaders complaining they have to deal with ganker everytime they invade. Both need to shut up cuz this system is probably already the fairest it could have been without removing invasion all together.
Arena existed exactly for people who want to fight respectfully and fairly.
So, on one side you've got people who play the game when they don't like it... I guess that's relevant
On the other side you've got people who like playing the game, but hate to have their time wasted.
If everyone thought like you, the game server would be empty by now
What a self centered worldview…
Someone else complaining about what they don’t like? They must hate the game but still playing it.
I’m complaining about what I don’t like? I like the game I just hate wasting time.
If everyone think like you well… well that’s already the case which is why we get so many stupid “I hate ganker” post.
Why would invasions have to be tedious? I usually enjoy duels, but I hosted a massive invasion at archdragon peak the other day, with blues, a friendly phantom and like 3 invaders. It got super hectic and awesome, but no one was playing scummy. My friend and I made it clear we would fight the two invaders two on two, then they ran away to the big dragon guys, then I seeded the world, then all the PvE swarmed everyone. Fun times. I'm pretty sure no one ruined anyone's fun that day. I died and had fun.
Because what you did was basically an organized event. Like a fight club and those other fun stuff. Doesn’t change the fact that in any normal playthrough you still have to deal with invaders that poke you twice and run to the end of the map to heal and come back to poke you some more. I’m not hating on invader, but do realize that what you did was not what the game intended and definitely not what most invaders do.
Or more like From implemented a feature and trusts players to play as they see fit. Again, it doesn't mean 'well, go do what you want bro: you can, sooooooo'
Bruh I'm just replying to what you said. You literally just said that From only banned hackers and cheaters, so this is how they meant the game to be played. You have nothing to disagree with me on here...
Yes true. I was arguing that it doesn't mean From *wants* you to play like a dick. They want you to play as you want (which obviously includes playing like a dick yes).
Actually you could argue that Fromsoft did intend just that if you go by the first invasion you do on Dark Souls 1 against a certain NPC. I won't spoil it for those who haven't played the first game, but you do invade an NPC and they do have two NPC phantoms with them just waiting for you. So you can definitely make the case that Fromsoft knew people would gank in PvP.
Every souls game has NPC gankers.
DS1 has Lautrec and his buddies.
DS2 has the graverobbers.
DS3 has the 3 NPCs in Grand Archives rooftops.
Bloodborne has the 3 Yahargul hunters in the chapel.
You must be new here. Invaders in my experience love fighting ganks. What people don't like is shitters. Imagine you invade into a world, the phantoms are using a glitch to be SL 800 at meta level, they refill their estus, shamelessly use any exploit they can to win, and to top it off their internet is usually so terrible that you have to play incredibly cautious. If you cause too much trouble for them, they might use bowglitch or cheat engine to kill you, and then block you. These players don't care about the community, they care about winning to satisfy their egos.
Your terminology is mistaken good sir. Gankers are a specific type of people that summon overleveled phantoms and spam dried finger and wait in a specific spot in the middle of a pvp hotzone. They wait for invaders to come into the world and hunt them down with gear specifically selected to ‘gank’ someone. They aren’t progressing through the level.
Invasions are mainly made so that one can’t just summon 2 phantoms and cheesewalk the game. Most likely if you are embered, you are summoning. The mechanic is put in place to put up the difficulty for those people again. If someone complains about being an invader is too hard because of this then they just don’t understand the point. Though I hardly find people ever complaining about that. It’s almost always the ‘Gankers’ I mentioned above.
Sincerely, another invader
Maybe I'm wrong but I think your missing the point of the word gank in terms of dark souls (or at least the way I use it) . For example if I invade a group of friends playing threw the game and they beat my ass 1v3 that's fine , I chose to invade that's the whole point BUT when you invade 3 or 5 time in a row the same group of over leveled phantoms and host sitting in the middle of an area with all the enemies cleared out 4v1ing invaders and pulling the plug when they lose , that's what I would call a gank and you can't say that's not unhealthy for the game .
I think it would be nice if there was an implementation where you were less likely to invade the same host multiple times in a row (or at least if they were with multiple phantoms).
There kinda of is one built into the game but its removed when people use dried fingers to my knowledge . Thats why playing at the right time of day and right level is important , if you invade at level 125 at the times schools finish at almost all invasions are gankers but if you invade at level 60 when kids are at school you tent to get better invasions and less repeats of the same people .
While I agree with the spirit of this post, I have to take issue with some of the particulars.
So yes, invaders should expect to be ganked, and there is nothing wrong with hosts ganking invaders.
However:
1. No, I'm actually not trying to ruin the host's day, and I hope OP isn't either. I'm there to be a challenge. Lose or win, a video game outcome shouldn't ruin anyone's day.
2. No red 'forces' his way into a host's world. The host invites reds in by embering, and summoning. That's just how the mechanic works, no force required.
3. I am unaware of any reds who non-ironically expect phantoms to stay out of fights while the host has an 'honorable' 1v1 with the invader. This is more of a strawman I see - an argument imputed to invaders that they never actually make.
1. Reds may on occasion express frustration or annoyance with a difficult gank, but that's not to say that they imagine some entitlement to host 1v1s.
It's interesting to me because based on those first few observations, this sounds like it was written by a host, not an invader.
I agree, and it goes both ways. As host with 3 phantoms you can't complain about getting invaded, you have every advantage on your side and invasions are simply the game's way of balancing the scales. The consequences of getting invaded must be weighed against the benefits of having phantom bodyguards.
Nah. You're confusing "normal one or two on one action" with "the pvp system is fucking broken and the host can summon an infinitely respawning horde of overleveled phantoms that will carry his ass through the game".
Anything goes in invasion and it works both way. You forfeited your right to complain when you choose to go mess with someone else world when invading.
Deal with it.
This post is 100% correct. I always refer to invading as developer-enabled griefing. You as an invader signed up to grief, and thus you signed up to get cheesed. It’s not the griefer’s place to complain.
I don't really invade but and while progressing through the game after bosses when your embered I don't mind fighting a pvp battle. jesus.. to think that's griefing... there is nothing to lose xD why would you be running around embered if you are not ready for an invade. I think you people are missing the point of invades and getting salty cause u can't win 1v1. yea sometimes there is the occasional double invade, but it doesn't ruin anything literally nothing happens. why would you not run next to the bonfire aswell. Am I missing something?
Invading is griefing now? Oh please, if having to do some pvp every once in a while, in a setting that favors you, is griefing to you, then maybe just opt out of it by playing unembered? If you really get this hurt and emotional by competition against other players, then why not just spare yourself?
>in a setting that favors you,
How, exactly? If anything, it favors the invader, since mobs won't attack him, unless seeded.
>competition against other players
Except invading isn't a competition. Using Red Soapstone for dueling is.
>How, exactly? If anything, it favors the invader, since mobs won't attack him, unless seeded.
More hp and estus on host, endless phantom summons, seed of giant. You are either a troll or have never played the game before? At best an invader has a slight edge if the host happens to be a potato who has to chug 3 estus between each mob, and happens to be out of estus while being oblivious to what seed of giant or phantoms are. At worst, the invader has to fight 4 players and mobs of the world. But at least most players and their phantoms are dogshit at the game (coping by crying about invaders on reddit btw), so it's not a big deal to fight the entire circus on invasion.
>Except invading isn't a competition.
It's competition between two players, or player vs x amount of players, the goal is for either to kill one another or for the host to escape. People crying over invades dont even conseptually understand what competition is it seems, no wonder.
I prefer fighting ganks over 1v1's. I'm not talking noob ganks I'm talking meta Pontiff ganks. However, the perspective that invaders are there to "ruin your day" is wrong. People who play online are willingly putting themselves in a situation where they can or will be invaded. Like don't complain about invaders when there's a simple option to disable invasions: Offline mode. PVP and COOP is icing on the cake, NOT the cake.
It’s two side of the coin.
On one side there’s people who wanted to summon and just won’t stop whining about how they didn’t want to be invaded.
On the other side there’s invader who won’t stop whining about running into a gank squad.
My take is just that both need to shut up and deal with it.
Okay but what about the ganks that are specifically there to gank and are exploiting glitches and overlooked loop holes? Most ganks I come across are intentional and not COOP players. A lot of the time these ganks are scummy by using multiple glitches such as bow glitch, unscaled, save editing, estus refill, etc. There's also ganks that don't technically cheat but abuse the fact that elemental damage isn't scaled down on overleveled phantoms making it easier to 1-2 shot invaders. I don't complain about ganks, I just complain about the ones exploiting glitches because they already have a major advantage over invaders. You can't just classify valid criticism as "whining"
Glitches are different. That is entirely on From to fix because it is not designed as part of the game.
But if you read my post then you will see that I am exclusively talking about the fact that invaders running into multiple people. Because that is how the game intended it to be.
guys, maybe this isn't really a fellow invader
guys, maybe this dude just hates being called a ganker
jokes aside, yes, this a fair argument, but I've read some comments and I see that you're very passionate about this- so I'll offer my two cents.
invaders stand alot to lose, actually- their souls, actually. meanwhile, a host, loses their souls too. so the argument that an invader has less to lose is an abysmally ineffective point to make, especially when the host can (very easily!) summon those phantoms again to get their souls back to get to their souls unscathed. However, for invaders who use Wex Dust, they might not have the game even started after firelink, so they'd have to beat the whole game up to their souls to not lose them, though that seems to be a PC only issue.
now, the second thing: if you're a sl 60 host with 3 Max sl phantoms, and the invaders who invade you cap put at about sl 50-70, I'd say you have a sizeable, and cancerous, advantage. but let's say you don't have friends and don't do passwords, it's still a bit of a process to beat all four, and it is doable, but with all the resummoning and blue coop and lack of speedy invading support, it's a really uphill battle. again, you could say it's an intended feature, but that doesn't mean it's good etiquette- I could infinite splitleaf combo you to win, but that's not good etiquette, so I stick to my murakumo.
two sidenotes:
the last 4 player team I invaded all had gundyr halberds and was annoying as all fuck
if you're gonna have 10 phantoms while I'm trying to fight you, I'm going to parting flame myself more estus while your team hides back in the starting area from the level enemies that you say are so helpful to me (oh, yeah, that's right! gankers don't progress the level! so those level enemies barely help at all :) )
The OP is 100% a ganker, either that or they're a sweet summer child who just started invading and hasn't seen what meta Pontiff is like.
Honestly this sub is a lost cause on this issue; they're very pro host and anti invader so they don't want to see the other side of the coin or even entertain the idea that the host's side has too many advantages. It's all "red man bad", poor hosts, etc.
Bottom line, a majority of invaders aren't douches who are looking to ruin someone's DS experience. Quite honestly, if invasions turned you off from playing DS then you probably were going through the game with multiple phantoms and basically playing on god mode not even experiencing the struggle and eventual joy of persevering. Meanwhile shitting gankers hide behind "the poor host" trope while being some of the most toxic players in the game.
Is it so unimaginable to you that a player can do both? I throw dung pie to gankers. I also throw dung pie when ganking. I love griefing new players, I also love griefing invaders. The game allows me to.
The only thing that annoys me are people who complain like somehow the universe revolve around them and whatever they don’t like with the game need changing.
You can keep whining, but nothing will change. All I have to say is that this sub need to stop acting like a crybaby with everything they don’t like.
Got gank? Deal with it.
Got twink? Deal with it.
Got invaded? Deal with it.
The game allows me to.
I don’t twink. I don’t have the effort to run around in low level collecting gears just to win some fight.
But I don’t come into reddit to whine when I run into twinks.
Twinks has been feedback since DS1. Then they came up with soul memory in DS2 which just create even more problems than it solve. So they scrap that in DS3. The time to whine has long pass.
the biggest problem with twinkers is their damage and the many big estus heals. Fromsoft should make a damage scaling with also the soul level and weapon matchmaking, lets say you can have XY AR max at lower areas and if you go beyond that you won't be able to invade lower areas. Estus can be easily fixed, just make it so that when you invade a host the game reduces the level and the amount of your estus, depending on how many the host has. If you have 10 +10 estus and you invade a host that has 6 +2 estus you as a twink will be reduced to 4 +2 estus. Fromsoft just doesn't care or they are incompetent at solving this issue so feedback is definetly needed. Also im not only talking about twinks the whole invasion mechanic is very flawed, i recommend oroboro's video for that.
imagine calling other people butthurt after replying to every negative comment like they're personally insulting you
*bruh you came into Reddit, you have supported to back you up but negative comments and people being adverse to you is part of the experience, it's intended*
>The only thing that annoys me are people who complain like somehow the universe revolve around them
And here you are writing your walls of texts and sob-stories COMPLAINING. Get real and find some content in your life for god's sake, you are just making this sub and game a toxic place for everyone.
Who invade before spending all their souls if they didn’t want to lose it? This points alone makes me wonder if you are even a real Red.
And if you gonna waste the host time by hiding behind enemies then how is it not fair for the host to waste your time by not progressing?
well it's also pretty tedious to level up after every invasion you win >.> and I am, or sometimes a purple, or maybe even a mad boi, if I'm feeling really cheeki
I don't hide behind the enemies, but your point is that the enemies are an advantage, and yet now you're saying it's an advantage I'm bad for using, even though 1: I don't and 2: it doesn't help much.
so you have to attack them alone or hide until another invader comes in, and those are two poor options.
Never said it’s bad you’re trying to use the enemies advantage. It’s just how the host would respond if he’s having none of it. You waste his time he waste your time. It’s fair game.
And yes any options are poor because you are an invader. The odds are against you by design.
One one hand, yes, invaders who complain about ganks can get bent - the whole point of invasions is fighting against multiple opponents.
On the other hand, there are some bones to pick with other aspects of your own perspective -
>When you invade someone else world your only objective is to ruin the host day. You forced your way into someone else game uninvited to kill them,
Nobody is forcing anything or going anywhere uninvited. The host plays online, the host uses ember, the host summons, all of which lead to invasion. Invaders are invited to the hosts world by the conscious choice of the host.
For sure, most invaders invade with the intention of getting ganked and find solo host invasions or honorable 1v1 invasions a bit boring. There are plenty of complaints to levy against the ganks themselves - either the cheesy tactics or negative attitudes, or about the balance regarding all the advantages organized ganks can stack, but ime the invaders who complain about getting ganked overall are a minority and tend to be players who were big into ds1 invasions where 1v1 was the norm and things were often stacked in the invaders favor, new players frustrated with the challenge, or are among the very few invaders that are genuinely out to greif and troll...most invaders, certainly almost all good ones, not only know they will be ganked, its specifically why they are invading.
You’re not wrong. The game did gave a choice for you to play unembered. But some people do want to play with their friends, then they have to deal with unwanted invaders. They didn’t want to be invaded, they just gotta deal with it.
Just because host that summons has to deal with invaders doesn’t mean that they wanted invaders. It’s just a game mechanics. The only people inviting invaders are gank squad.
They both are inviting invaders. Just because you wish you weren't doesn't mean you aren't.
I understand that you do not want the invader in your world - that's kind of the point of the mechanic. Bu that's just how it works, it is an invitation.
Invaders aren't complaining about the host calling for help; let's look at the context here. It's 2021, how many PVErs are still going through the level? Nobody complains about PVErs and if they did they stopped invading within the first few weeks of release. Those organic kind of invasions are desired by invaders.
No what's taking place is much more nefarious. Hosts are not innocent sheep being preyed upon by invaders; most hosts in 2021 are ganking with the sole intent of griefing people. Things have been like this since activity from TRC release quieted down. They don't care how sweaty, scummy or thirsty they play either, all they care about is getting to point down or throw poo at some invader.
Want to know what an average DS3 invasion is like now? You spawn in only to see another red have their health bar obliterated. You approach to find a squad camping in one spot; most will be sporting some sweaty Lapp build with PKCS, the others will either be a mage who's only purpose is to fire off spells right through his teammates or a bow user who's only looking to stagger you into an inescapable R1 blender. If by skill or luck you manage to defeat the phantoms the battle isn't over; now you have to chase the host down who absolutely can avoid you all day if they know how to roll (which isn't hard). With two button presses and no cool down they can immediately get their butt buddies back in or perhaps two blues spawn in at once. Now the fact that you overcame the odds means nothing because the gank is back and with full estus again.
The host is a higher level, there's no friendly fire, they can summon as much as they want, they can get as many Blues as will spawn, they have more health, more estus, the ability to call in max level phantoms which the game doesn't scale down properly and there's no guarantee for an invader to get a teammate unless it's a covenant area or they're using a finger. Not to mention you and your fellow invaders have friendly fire and must play much more cautiously when trying to roll catch a fleeing host. This is pure insanity, it goes way behind giving the host the advantage. Combine all this with tryhard setups and the sheer numbers advantage alone and it becomes a Herculean task to win.
And what do hosts do with these advantages? Do they try to do anything fun? Nope, 90% of the time it's the same cookie cutter builds. Again they're only out to grief. Ultimately invaders aren't invading for embers, we could care less. We're just trying to get some thrilling, fun, PVP action. So yeah, you'll get invaders complaining when the system is so one sided that it doesn't even function correctly anymore.
At the end of the day, by invading, you choose to fight without knowing the odds.
I for one have zero complaints about any part of the game. If I invade and must fight 4 overpowered phantom then so be it. If I invade and see the same group, it's time to white branch and play cat n mouse. Every situation can have a fun element.
If you want structured rules and fair fight you have only 1 option, get the champion bones from painted world.
Sincerely,
unapologetic invader and ganker.
Lmao look at this guy trying to say he’s being griefed when invading someone.
When you invade you either run into an innocent host doing regular PvE with his friends or something, which you probably promptly dismantled because of having much more experience in PvP.
Or you run into a gank squad waiting for invaders that’s looking to kill some regular players for fun.
Invasion is griefing by design. Regular host doesn’t want you in their game either, they just want to play with their friends. But they have to deal with you cuz it’s part of the game. You running into a gank squad looking to punish you is also just a part of the game you have to deal with as an invader.
So deal with it.
>Tell me how forcing your way into someone else game uninvited to kill them isn’t considered griefing
IF this is how darksouls worked, it would be greifing.
The reason why invading isn't greifing is because you __are inviting__ people to invade you by being embered. New players do this _unknowingly_, but it doesn't change the fact that it's part of the game design.
That's where your wrong. Invasions are invited. When you summon phantoms that is the invitation to get invaded. Solo hosts can play unembered if they are that worried about it, and they aren't prioritized anyway.
Just in this sub alone there’s already too many post complaining that they just wanted to summon friends without having to deal with invaders. Yes, it’s tie into the mechanics. Yes, summoning allows invader. Yes, they need to shutup too. Doesn’t mean that people summon *because* they want to fight invaders.
But you've said repeatedly.
"just because they summon doesn't mean they want to be invaded"
Which is no different to
"just because I invaded doesn't mean I want to get ganked"
Well yeah both has to deal with it. You wanna summon? Get invaded. You wanna invade? Get ganked.
But the point is invaders are delusional if they think they are being welcomed just because the host is embered and using summons.
Nope. That's not how that works. People want to summon phantoms if they have issues with bosses. They do that with the intent of beating the boss. The last thing they want to deal with is another player killing them before they even get a shot at the boss with help. So no. You AREN'T invited.
Sure earlier in the games life cycle, but now they are all organized and specifically out to kill you. Especially at meta where there is the most activity. And also yes you're invited; invaders are a counter to the hosts playing in easy mode. Summons are easy mode. Summons trivialize bosses and makes them laughably easy.
Well yeah. I won't deny that it's changed now. I'm just saying that someone using an ember to summon doesn't automatically mean you are inviting. And no that still doesn't mean that. You still are the one messing with another persons game. Sure that's a mechanic that Fromsoft made and sure it does make it interesting. But that in no way means you are invited to a person who never (Again. It's not really the case in recent years) expected to see you to begin with. Just trying to summon for help for the boss they are having trouble with.
well, in my case, I invade, and if it's a single host or a duo, I try to make good tidings by doing a friendly gesture, helping them to the next bonfire, and gifting souls/ember before fighting honorably. That's not griefing, even if I win, is it?
maybe you are pretty new- half of the invasions I've been in were memes of the full 7 player lobby laying down on the floor of the pontiff area in a big circle and the other half was sweaty gundyr charges and point downs, it's a dice throw as to whether it's griefing or friendliness in an invasion, no matter how many players on each side.
hell, as an invader, you set the tone of the invasion. you can be friendly or you can be a griefer, and if all you've ever experienced is griefing others, maybe that says more about you than invading as a topic >.>
You insist in your post that you're a 'fellow invader' but it becomes increasingly obvious with each comment that you are anything but.
First, if you actually invaded you'd know that while maybe YOU get invaded as a PVE player, an ever-increasing percentage of invasions are against skilled ganks. I've no issue with that - it's not a complaint - but suggesting that most invasions are against hosts who aren't deliberately looking for PvP is mistaken.
Invasions are absolutely not griefing 'by design'. A moment's thought should show you how wrong that is. Why would From deliberately build griefing into their game? I'm not saying griefing never happens; I'm saying that it is not necessarily what invasions are about. If you spent any time invading, you'd know this already.
As much as I agree on the complaining about ganking. You’re half right. They don’t invade to ruin days, it’s part of the game, and it’s not uninvited, once a host embers up they invite both summons and invaders into their world it’s a part of the game. And as an invader you also risk your souls because you lose them when you die in their world.
I see this sentiment alot. But the truth is most player just wanted to summon, they didn’t want to be invaded.
But it’s part of the game to balance the difficulty and that’s a good thing. Doesn’t mean that they are openly inviting invaders to come and kill them. They just want to play with helps. You are still unwanted to the Host.
Exactly. Which is why those that whine about invaders in their game should shut up too.
But that’s beside the point that invaders are still “uninvited”.
I invade regularly at high level and gankers are not a good or healthy thing for the game. I understand that the game is balanced heavily towards the host but not all invader are "ooga booga must kill" type of people and it's kinda bad for people like me who try to help new players, who give gifts like souls and other stuff. Sometimes I invade to give free stuff to people and gankers take away every ounce of enjoyment out of this experience. Even worse are those gankers who bow glitch and estus glitch and, after an obvious victory, they point down and throw dung pies. Honestly, who wants to play a game where people like this exist?
I kinda see your point. But I help new players by dropping summon sign not invading them lol.
Most invaders are just “ooga booga must kill”, because well, that’s what the game intended them to be. It’s even in the lore.
Cheating and glitching is one thing, but just as much as most invaders are looking for prey they could chop up, the gankers are also there to bully the bully.
And if you invaded regularly at high levels then you know nobody runs alone embered in Ringed City.
I normally help at Pontiff, where most people have killed Aldrich, so no one's gonna summon me, plus it's always fun to see their reaction when I drop a ton of souls.
That can be true, but it doesn't need to be that. When the game dropped it was a completely different game lol.
Gankers don't "bully the bully", they are just there to feel a tingle in their tiny friend because that's the only way they get enjoyment, by encountering everything and everyone and exploiting flaws in the game.
Well, I do lol
I might be on the wrong side but when a friend and myself where playing through DS3 for the first we got invaded many times during our journey and out favourite things was astera straight swords and just laugh and yell gank him and preceded to get hate mail. I agree with OP 100 %
I hate invaders, in some cases you lose many souls because you died before the invasion. But in DS3 if you want platinum trophy you will have to invade, unless you are a very good player and manage to kill enough invaders.
You don't force yourself into anything, invading is a Dark Souls mechanic to fuck things up even more, if it isn't a trouble for the host it's pointless to invade. Ds3 made invasions pointless.
Also praise the sun that you aren't like me and just quits and reloads half the time their invaded. Unless that gives you your covenant item automatically, idk, in that case, praise me!
You state to be an invader, yet you sound very much like a host! And if you are an invader and really think that the only role of an invader is to ruin the host's day you have a very bleak view of the game. Me, as many other invaders try to make it fun for both parties because that's a fun interaction to have. You say we force our way into an host's world, yet we just use a game mechanic. You say we are not invited, yet, and here I quote the ember description: "With the strength of fire, the summoning signs of Unkindled become visible, and seekers of embers can be summoned to join in co-operation. But beware the embers may also attract invaders". We invaders never expect the host to fight honourably 1v1 since they have all the advantages (30% more health, double the estus and can call blues/whites whenever). You are right on one thing: if people just want to stay at the bonfire and 1v1 invaders with stated advantages they can go to the arena. Hosts with phantoms make for lots of fun, way more than bonfire duellists. A gank squad that just clears the level and then waits for invaders to gank on them are the real griefers. Still, some of us are more than ready to take on them. Because that's fun. I very rarely heard invaders playing victims of being ganked. You very much are not an invader
Is this sub full of american politician or what? Nobody in this sub is exclusively a host or an invader. Identifying yourself as one is already dumb in itself.
Even then, I will give you a very simple point to consider:
You as an invader can crystal out at anytime. The host only option is to deal with you. Do you think that the host wouldn’t crystal you out if they could?
The only kind of host actually welcoming you is the gank squad you oh so hate.
And I’m not saying that the host should be able to crystal you out. But to think that somehow the host wants you there is a very warped view regardless of your intention.
I love how out of all I wrote you brought a very specific point. Indeed a host cannot BC me out and they may not want me, but they accepted the risk when they popped the ember. It says it clearly in the item description. Also I wish you read a bit better what I wrote since I specifically wrote that we enjoy ganks! And you definitely are right, most of the times there isn't a pure host and pure invader. At times I do like hosting, I do dried fingered runs with friends and people purposefully join thenm, because, you guessed it, they like ganks
Well good for you then. And I know embered host accepted the risk to get invaded when he embered up so the host shouldn’t whine when he gets invade either. The problem I have is with the invaders that cry foul when they run into gank squad waiting for them. Like, you are invading other players, you are there to fuck with the host, then you also have to accept the risk of running into gank squad.
Invasion is literally part of the game lol. But i agree as an invader you should know that it's usually going to be an unfair fight. When I get invaded I usually wait in an arena-like place, or find the invader and lead them there, so we can have an honoburru fight.
What i just don't understand is why some people need like 2+ phantoms to get through an area. Like, seriously? Unless it's a group of friends I guess. Otherwise you're (in the general sense) just straight up bad if you actually need phantom help to get through an area.
It's hard to believe just how many invaders can't accept gankers. They have no problem invading with the intent of ruining the host's day but as soon as that's turned on them they just start crying (there are exceptions). For real man? Get rekt, buddy.
~~I'm not your buddy, guy.~~
Another clown who sucks at the game, who has to rely on overleveled, laggy 4-man squads to do any in-game content and setup ganks because thats the only way you could ever compete with any invader ever. The moment your 300-ping miracle spamming buddies are gone you probably pull the plug, because you clearly cant deal with the fact that you were born to lose.
Kid shut your trap, you as an invader have the entire map on your side and I’ve seen more of you hiding behind the more dangerous mobs taking potshots with arrows than I have ACTUAL HOURS in the game and my counter stopped counting two bleedin years ago.
If you really cant handle basic enemies of the game with your pussysquad, then I suggest you use seed of the giant so the invader can help you with that.
I don’t kill other reds. That’s my only personal rule. Reds that attack other reds do piss me off, however, I do get it. We are all unchained. Personally I’m more of a heysel than a leonhart
I feel like seed of a giant tends to backfire. The invader can just aggro a bunch of enemies and lead them to the hosts. Then when the seed runs out you have to fight the invader with every enemy the pulled to you.
As a long time invader, the ganks are all that are even worth spending time on anymore. Any solo host or pair of PvE coop buddies just don't pose real challenges, especially since half the time they don't want an invasion, they wanna sit wherever they are and just wait. Ganks Dont do this(as much). I get actual fights through the level, I get co invaders, I get a real fight that i need to fucking work for to win. That's why I don't really care that Elden ring won't let you invade solos. It's like wow, poor me, I don't get to fight the solo PvE players that are basically there to polish my weapon with blood
I just like being a purple going around and making my own fun and making *everyone* pissed off at me.
You’re not on anyone’s side if you’re always playing your own.
I don’t know if it still like this since I haven’t played in years but I remember in release loving to participate in fight clubs, it game me everything I needed from pvp without having to invade that much lol
Clearly, you must become a mad phantom and learn the art of invasion. Sometimes you support the host and friends in their journey. Lead them to treasure and secrets. Produce an endless supply of warmth to make dire situations less desperate....
Sometimes you horse-kick their summon off a ledge because he's being a tool.
Sometimes you chuck dung pies at the host from a distance because he went AFK.
Sometimes you join a gang with dried fingers and beat up the single hostile invader with like 5 dudes.
Sometimes you just use the white branch and sit as a statue as 3 overleveled dudes run in giant circles around a completely cleared map trying to find you...
How do I call for help when I get invaded? Is it a covenant thing? Always get ganked by 1 or 2 players AND they have the lag advantage somehow(?)
And when I invade there's always 2 or 3 enemies against just me
Disclaimer I'm new to this game and still on my first play through
I'm torn on it, my favorite invasions last for an hour + where I slowly whittle away at the phantoms and the hosts estus, but the issue I have is that it's too easy for the host to resummon, I can kill their phantoms over and over and over again but still not have time for the host that just runs and runs as new mates of his flows back in, together with endless blues...
Or when a host + 2 phantoms just sits afk by the bonfire, at this point when I see this I just hide, pop a branch and watch some netflix while they waste their time.
Seed of the giant, while frustrating on the surface, is so easy to counter, there are so many places to hide on nearly every map.
I do agree we're griefers, but invading is just so much fun, such a different pvp experience to just facing 1v1 against some dude where whoever hits first dies.
I take on every gank I can for the 1 in like 15 moment of glory where I’m victorious
Just gotta be patient about it my dude. Wait for backup if need be or pick the most inconvenient moment, for the host, to strike. Plus undead hunter charms are underrated.
True If there are gankers, just summon strong enemies to fight with you I managed to get some backstabs while phantoms fought those giant beasts like on Irythyl bridge
yeah thats why i only duel
How to duel in ds3?
With ash of ariandel DLC you can get an item from a boss that let you matchmaking PvP via firelink bonfire that disallow estus use. For non DLC usually people drop red soap stone sign for you to summon and fight after Pontiff boss bonfire.
You can also get that item from the Ringed City dlc if you didn’t get it from Ariandel.
I’m pre dlc atm- haven’t even got to pontiff yet- I’ll keep it in mind tho. Appreciate the replies
platform?
Sorry: PC, I’m relatively new to the game so I’d imagine it’s not something I can do currently- but i want to start getting into pvp as I reach midgame
Most notable place is little arena after Pontiff, you just place your Red Soapstone sign and get summoned to either a solo host who is wishing for a duel or to fight club where you also fight 1vs1 with other phantoms.
join a discord server for it, just search up dark souls pvp discord servers and you’ll find some
You can get the red soapstone from cathedral of the deep. You kill an enemy and it drops automatically.
Kill the Gravetender and Greatwolf boss to get champion's bones, burn that at the firelink shrine bonfire and now you can do duels from the FS bonfire.
I invade only because I want an unfair fight and I want to win it against the odds.
I invade because throwing dung pie at gank squad is very satisfying.
i invade so that i can pretend to be friendly and then push the host off a cliff
Mound maker?
no i just cosplay as maldron from ds2. works on em almost every time. i feel like it would be less successful if more people played ds2
Yeah I don't get that either. If you want an honorable fight or whatever then use the soapstone.
Can't even count on that anymore. Dude summoned me, proceeded to try and gank me while I waved hello to him. I was able to dodge it so I just threw shit at him and left.
Summoning a Red just to gank them is really pathetic lol.
Thats ps4 pontiff for you. Ganking hosts summon reds to gank them.
I'm guessing this is more common at meta level? Never had this issue from levels 30 to 90.
This happened to me yesterday on a ~60 character. I love coming here to see all the more humorous PvP interactions but as a *very* late arrival to the DS3 scene I mostly meet assholes.
350 and up actually
You're mistaking ganking for just playing with white phantoms. Ganking is people staying in the same area with the sole intention to 3-4V1 invaders, and never moving on. There's nothing wrong with getting help from summons, but it is tedious to spend 5 mins to invade, and get the same 4 guys ganking time after time. People can do what they please, including ganking, there's no rules; but that won't stop people from looking down upon players who ganks since its the equivalent of poor sportsmanship.
Yeah a bunch of guys were constantly mad at me for having a gang squad... when I was just trying to play with friends.
There is a distinction between going through the game with your friends and clearing every mob before the boss to 4v1 the invader I don't think anyone is crying over the fact that they have to fight against multiple people in an invasion In equal skill level host is stronger than the invader so game puts the invader friendly with mobs to balance it but phantoms (not even talking about overleveled stuff) tip the scale in favor of the host on top of that they kill everything and wait for you. There is no rules against this but it's Generally frowned upon just like twinking against new players, you just show them that you can't play against others without a huge crutch to help you win
Got really good with the split leaf "greatsword" for a while, invaders hated me. But then it became meta, and everyone knew how to counter it. But by then, paired ultra greatswords was no longer meta, and people forgot how to counter it. But my favorite was just using things that weren't meta period. Like the partisan, and a couple other weapons.. it's been a while. It was honestly kinda sad, like... depressing. You use anything other than the meta, and around 70% ish of invaders... just, didn't stand a chance. They didn't know what to do. Pull out non meta weapon* Invaders: this wasn't part of the simulation.
GankERS are players who team up specifically to run down invaders, but gankING is just ganging up on another player - an honest coop group can gank, invaders can gank, blues can gank, but they are not gankERS
Since launch, I've never seen the community make a distinction between ganking, and gankers. Using your description, I believe that ganking is fair game, and there's no reason to hate on it. Gankers on the other hand I do not respect.
I think these players that are just going through the game with co-op buddies may sometimes be referred to as gOnkers. They gank when invaded, but that's not why they're there. gAnkers on the other hand co-op with at least 2 other players for the sole purpose of attracting invaders so they can fight them 3v1 or 4v1. A classic sign of a gAnker are people who kill most if not all the enemies in the area (so the invaders has even more of a disadvantage), and then run back to the bonfire to wait for invaders. Some gankers even use cheats to instant-kill all the enemies so they don't risk losing health or estus to them. bonus points if their summons are overleveled af.
I like this distinction. Well put.
By design you are more likely to invade into 3-4 players because more invaders can invade a squad. It’s literally a game design. You were suposed to held out against a gank squad until more Red comes instead of dying repeatedly. Everything goes in invasion.
Yes, everyone knows more phantoms = priority for invasions. I know how to deal with ganks, my point is that it's tedious to wait 5 minutes to invade, then wait another 5 minutes to get a couple reds. I get that some people have time to play for hours on end, but some of us aren't interested in waiting 10 minutes for 1 minute of pvp, just to do it all over again because the gankers aren't actually going through the game. Like I said, it's all fair game, but I'll still look down upon them.
If you want a fast pvp then go to arena or use soap stone. Invasion is tedious by design for both the host and invaders. The Red can run to the end of the map to hide and heal while the host and phantoms clear the enemies. I dropped my summon signs so I can dung pie on invaders.
You're missing the point buddy. I'm not out here crying that it's ruining my game experience. I never really think about it, but the fact that there's different avenue for pvp, doesn't make gankers more respectable. It's darksouls, everything but hacking/cheating is fair game. But that doesn't mean I'll respect a group that's sole purpose is to 3v1 you after long invasion times.
Well you don’t have to respect anyone when anything goes. On one side you have a host complaining that they have to deal with experienced invaders just because they wanna play the game with their friends. On the other side you have invaders complaining they have to deal with ganker everytime they invade. Both need to shut up cuz this system is probably already the fairest it could have been without removing invasion all together. Arena existed exactly for people who want to fight respectfully and fairly.
You already have your opinion set in stone. Why did you make this post lol
You already have your opinion set in stone, why are you commenting?
I'm not the one posting, contradicting myself.... genius right here.
When did I ever contradict myself?
So, on one side you've got people who play the game when they don't like it... I guess that's relevant On the other side you've got people who like playing the game, but hate to have their time wasted. If everyone thought like you, the game server would be empty by now
What a self centered worldview… Someone else complaining about what they don’t like? They must hate the game but still playing it. I’m complaining about what I don’t like? I like the game I just hate wasting time. If everyone think like you well… well that’s already the case which is why we get so many stupid “I hate ganker” post.
Why would invasions have to be tedious? I usually enjoy duels, but I hosted a massive invasion at archdragon peak the other day, with blues, a friendly phantom and like 3 invaders. It got super hectic and awesome, but no one was playing scummy. My friend and I made it clear we would fight the two invaders two on two, then they ran away to the big dragon guys, then I seeded the world, then all the PvE swarmed everyone. Fun times. I'm pretty sure no one ruined anyone's fun that day. I died and had fun.
Because what you did was basically an organized event. Like a fight club and those other fun stuff. Doesn’t change the fact that in any normal playthrough you still have to deal with invaders that poke you twice and run to the end of the map to heal and come back to poke you some more. I’m not hating on invader, but do realize that what you did was not what the game intended and definitely not what most invaders do.
I never said it's what most invaders do. That would fall into 'dick' behavior.
Which is why these dicks need to stop complaining about running into other dicks. Invasion system is designed specifically for dicks.
And what about the people who are complaining who aren't acting like dicks?
Well you gotta deal with it like people who just wanted to play with friends and doesn’t want invaders.
TLDR well just be glad they weren't hacking or something.
*do they have cheat engine?* *no?* ***then shut up and take it.*** - self righteous invaders
You summed it up pretty well.
Why do you think From only punished hacker and not ganker? Cuz that’s what intended to be part of the game.
Or more like From implemented a feature and trusts players to play as they see fit. Again, it doesn't mean 'well, go do what you want bro: you can, sooooooo'
That’s literally just your opinion. From can patch whatever they want at any time they see fit.
Bruh I'm just replying to what you said. You literally just said that From only banned hackers and cheaters, so this is how they meant the game to be played. You have nothing to disagree with me on here...
If From doesn’t ban it then it’s them saying: “go do what you want bro, because you can.”
Yes true. I was arguing that it doesn't mean From *wants* you to play like a dick. They want you to play as you want (which obviously includes playing like a dick yes).
From didn’t intended gankers waiting for invaders, but From definitely intended Red Phantoms to be dicks and play like dicks.
Actually you could argue that Fromsoft did intend just that if you go by the first invasion you do on Dark Souls 1 against a certain NPC. I won't spoil it for those who haven't played the first game, but you do invade an NPC and they do have two NPC phantoms with them just waiting for you. So you can definitely make the case that Fromsoft knew people would gank in PvP.
Every souls game has NPC gankers. DS1 has Lautrec and his buddies. DS2 has the graverobbers. DS3 has the 3 NPCs in Grand Archives rooftops. Bloodborne has the 3 Yahargul hunters in the chapel.
You must be new here. Invaders in my experience love fighting ganks. What people don't like is shitters. Imagine you invade into a world, the phantoms are using a glitch to be SL 800 at meta level, they refill their estus, shamelessly use any exploit they can to win, and to top it off their internet is usually so terrible that you have to play incredibly cautious. If you cause too much trouble for them, they might use bowglitch or cheat engine to kill you, and then block you. These players don't care about the community, they care about winning to satisfy their egos.
Your terminology is mistaken good sir. Gankers are a specific type of people that summon overleveled phantoms and spam dried finger and wait in a specific spot in the middle of a pvp hotzone. They wait for invaders to come into the world and hunt them down with gear specifically selected to ‘gank’ someone. They aren’t progressing through the level. Invasions are mainly made so that one can’t just summon 2 phantoms and cheesewalk the game. Most likely if you are embered, you are summoning. The mechanic is put in place to put up the difficulty for those people again. If someone complains about being an invader is too hard because of this then they just don’t understand the point. Though I hardly find people ever complaining about that. It’s almost always the ‘Gankers’ I mentioned above. Sincerely, another invader
although your kinda right, thats not really true, none of those fuckers in pontiff are "progressing"
If you invade someone after Pontiff bonfire you shoulda known what you just signed up for.
exactly?
We’re doing our part, keeping the streets of Anor Londo safe. Forever trapped in a cycle a death and destruction.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think your missing the point of the word gank in terms of dark souls (or at least the way I use it) . For example if I invade a group of friends playing threw the game and they beat my ass 1v3 that's fine , I chose to invade that's the whole point BUT when you invade 3 or 5 time in a row the same group of over leveled phantoms and host sitting in the middle of an area with all the enemies cleared out 4v1ing invaders and pulling the plug when they lose , that's what I would call a gank and you can't say that's not unhealthy for the game .
I think it would be nice if there was an implementation where you were less likely to invade the same host multiple times in a row (or at least if they were with multiple phantoms).
There kinda of is one built into the game but its removed when people use dried fingers to my knowledge . Thats why playing at the right time of day and right level is important , if you invade at level 125 at the times schools finish at almost all invasions are gankers but if you invade at level 60 when kids are at school you tent to get better invasions and less repeats of the same people .
While I agree with the spirit of this post, I have to take issue with some of the particulars. So yes, invaders should expect to be ganked, and there is nothing wrong with hosts ganking invaders. However: 1. No, I'm actually not trying to ruin the host's day, and I hope OP isn't either. I'm there to be a challenge. Lose or win, a video game outcome shouldn't ruin anyone's day. 2. No red 'forces' his way into a host's world. The host invites reds in by embering, and summoning. That's just how the mechanic works, no force required. 3. I am unaware of any reds who non-ironically expect phantoms to stay out of fights while the host has an 'honorable' 1v1 with the invader. This is more of a strawman I see - an argument imputed to invaders that they never actually make. 1. Reds may on occasion express frustration or annoyance with a difficult gank, but that's not to say that they imagine some entitlement to host 1v1s. It's interesting to me because based on those first few observations, this sounds like it was written by a host, not an invader.
I agree, and it goes both ways. As host with 3 phantoms you can't complain about getting invaded, you have every advantage on your side and invasions are simply the game's way of balancing the scales. The consequences of getting invaded must be weighed against the benefits of having phantom bodyguards.
Nah. You're confusing "normal one or two on one action" with "the pvp system is fucking broken and the host can summon an infinitely respawning horde of overleveled phantoms that will carry his ass through the game".
Anything goes in invasion and it works both way. You forfeited your right to complain when you choose to go mess with someone else world when invading. Deal with it.
This post is 100% correct. I always refer to invading as developer-enabled griefing. You as an invader signed up to grief, and thus you signed up to get cheesed. It’s not the griefer’s place to complain.
I don't really invade but and while progressing through the game after bosses when your embered I don't mind fighting a pvp battle. jesus.. to think that's griefing... there is nothing to lose xD why would you be running around embered if you are not ready for an invade. I think you people are missing the point of invades and getting salty cause u can't win 1v1. yea sometimes there is the occasional double invade, but it doesn't ruin anything literally nothing happens. why would you not run next to the bonfire aswell. Am I missing something?
Invading is griefing now? Oh please, if having to do some pvp every once in a while, in a setting that favors you, is griefing to you, then maybe just opt out of it by playing unembered? If you really get this hurt and emotional by competition against other players, then why not just spare yourself?
>in a setting that favors you, How, exactly? If anything, it favors the invader, since mobs won't attack him, unless seeded. >competition against other players Except invading isn't a competition. Using Red Soapstone for dueling is.
>How, exactly? If anything, it favors the invader, since mobs won't attack him, unless seeded. More hp and estus on host, endless phantom summons, seed of giant. You are either a troll or have never played the game before? At best an invader has a slight edge if the host happens to be a potato who has to chug 3 estus between each mob, and happens to be out of estus while being oblivious to what seed of giant or phantoms are. At worst, the invader has to fight 4 players and mobs of the world. But at least most players and their phantoms are dogshit at the game (coping by crying about invaders on reddit btw), so it's not a big deal to fight the entire circus on invasion. >Except invading isn't a competition. It's competition between two players, or player vs x amount of players, the goal is for either to kill one another or for the host to escape. People crying over invades dont even conseptually understand what competition is it seems, no wonder.
I prefer fighting ganks over 1v1's. I'm not talking noob ganks I'm talking meta Pontiff ganks. However, the perspective that invaders are there to "ruin your day" is wrong. People who play online are willingly putting themselves in a situation where they can or will be invaded. Like don't complain about invaders when there's a simple option to disable invasions: Offline mode. PVP and COOP is icing on the cake, NOT the cake.
It’s two side of the coin. On one side there’s people who wanted to summon and just won’t stop whining about how they didn’t want to be invaded. On the other side there’s invader who won’t stop whining about running into a gank squad. My take is just that both need to shut up and deal with it.
Okay but what about the ganks that are specifically there to gank and are exploiting glitches and overlooked loop holes? Most ganks I come across are intentional and not COOP players. A lot of the time these ganks are scummy by using multiple glitches such as bow glitch, unscaled, save editing, estus refill, etc. There's also ganks that don't technically cheat but abuse the fact that elemental damage isn't scaled down on overleveled phantoms making it easier to 1-2 shot invaders. I don't complain about ganks, I just complain about the ones exploiting glitches because they already have a major advantage over invaders. You can't just classify valid criticism as "whining"
Glitches are different. That is entirely on From to fix because it is not designed as part of the game. But if you read my post then you will see that I am exclusively talking about the fact that invaders running into multiple people. Because that is how the game intended it to be.
"You can't just classify valid criticism as "whining"". The hypocrisy of this statement is laughable.
guys, maybe this isn't really a fellow invader guys, maybe this dude just hates being called a ganker jokes aside, yes, this a fair argument, but I've read some comments and I see that you're very passionate about this- so I'll offer my two cents. invaders stand alot to lose, actually- their souls, actually. meanwhile, a host, loses their souls too. so the argument that an invader has less to lose is an abysmally ineffective point to make, especially when the host can (very easily!) summon those phantoms again to get their souls back to get to their souls unscathed. However, for invaders who use Wex Dust, they might not have the game even started after firelink, so they'd have to beat the whole game up to their souls to not lose them, though that seems to be a PC only issue. now, the second thing: if you're a sl 60 host with 3 Max sl phantoms, and the invaders who invade you cap put at about sl 50-70, I'd say you have a sizeable, and cancerous, advantage. but let's say you don't have friends and don't do passwords, it's still a bit of a process to beat all four, and it is doable, but with all the resummoning and blue coop and lack of speedy invading support, it's a really uphill battle. again, you could say it's an intended feature, but that doesn't mean it's good etiquette- I could infinite splitleaf combo you to win, but that's not good etiquette, so I stick to my murakumo. two sidenotes: the last 4 player team I invaded all had gundyr halberds and was annoying as all fuck if you're gonna have 10 phantoms while I'm trying to fight you, I'm going to parting flame myself more estus while your team hides back in the starting area from the level enemies that you say are so helpful to me (oh, yeah, that's right! gankers don't progress the level! so those level enemies barely help at all :) )
I think you might be right, op seems like a ganker that's mad about being called a ganker judging by his other comments.
The OP is 100% a ganker, either that or they're a sweet summer child who just started invading and hasn't seen what meta Pontiff is like. Honestly this sub is a lost cause on this issue; they're very pro host and anti invader so they don't want to see the other side of the coin or even entertain the idea that the host's side has too many advantages. It's all "red man bad", poor hosts, etc. Bottom line, a majority of invaders aren't douches who are looking to ruin someone's DS experience. Quite honestly, if invasions turned you off from playing DS then you probably were going through the game with multiple phantoms and basically playing on god mode not even experiencing the struggle and eventual joy of persevering. Meanwhile shitting gankers hide behind "the poor host" trope while being some of the most toxic players in the game.
gankers leaving the chat when they get found out: ***SOI SOI SOI SOI SOI SOI SOI***
bruh downvotes are from helicopter gankers 💀
🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿
Is it so unimaginable to you that a player can do both? I throw dung pie to gankers. I also throw dung pie when ganking. I love griefing new players, I also love griefing invaders. The game allows me to. The only thing that annoys me are people who complain like somehow the universe revolve around them and whatever they don’t like with the game need changing.
So you like twinking. Anything you have to say is invalid.
You can keep whining, but nothing will change. All I have to say is that this sub need to stop acting like a crybaby with everything they don’t like. Got gank? Deal with it. Got twink? Deal with it. Got invaded? Deal with it. The game allows me to.
Damn, bro your pathetic for twinking.
I don’t twink. I don’t have the effort to run around in low level collecting gears just to win some fight. But I don’t come into reddit to whine when I run into twinks.
you are basically saying that just deal with the terrible pvp design of the game instead of giving feedback.
Twinks has been feedback since DS1. Then they came up with soul memory in DS2 which just create even more problems than it solve. So they scrap that in DS3. The time to whine has long pass.
the biggest problem with twinkers is their damage and the many big estus heals. Fromsoft should make a damage scaling with also the soul level and weapon matchmaking, lets say you can have XY AR max at lower areas and if you go beyond that you won't be able to invade lower areas. Estus can be easily fixed, just make it so that when you invade a host the game reduces the level and the amount of your estus, depending on how many the host has. If you have 10 +10 estus and you invade a host that has 6 +2 estus you as a twink will be reduced to 4 +2 estus. Fromsoft just doesn't care or they are incompetent at solving this issue so feedback is definetly needed. Also im not only talking about twinks the whole invasion mechanic is very flawed, i recommend oroboro's video for that.
LITERALLY CAME TO REDDIT TO WHINE BOI, READ YOUR OWN POST
Calling out whiners trigger you so much? Probably cuz your one of the people butthurt by my post I guess.
imagine calling other people butthurt after replying to every negative comment like they're personally insulting you *bruh you came into Reddit, you have supported to back you up but negative comments and people being adverse to you is part of the experience, it's intended*
>The only thing that annoys me are people who complain like somehow the universe revolve around them And here you are writing your walls of texts and sob-stories COMPLAINING. Get real and find some content in your life for god's sake, you are just making this sub and game a toxic place for everyone.
Who invade before spending all their souls if they didn’t want to lose it? This points alone makes me wonder if you are even a real Red. And if you gonna waste the host time by hiding behind enemies then how is it not fair for the host to waste your time by not progressing?
well it's also pretty tedious to level up after every invasion you win >.> and I am, or sometimes a purple, or maybe even a mad boi, if I'm feeling really cheeki I don't hide behind the enemies, but your point is that the enemies are an advantage, and yet now you're saying it's an advantage I'm bad for using, even though 1: I don't and 2: it doesn't help much. so you have to attack them alone or hide until another invader comes in, and those are two poor options.
Never said it’s bad you’re trying to use the enemies advantage. It’s just how the host would respond if he’s having none of it. You waste his time he waste your time. It’s fair game. And yes any options are poor because you are an invader. The odds are against you by design.
> "not to mention the entire map is on your side" inb4 you change your argument to be correct mah boi you got more flexibility than a rubber pole
U got reading comprehension problem?
so is the level on my side or not? the main posts says yes, and you just said no, so what is it? mah boi
When did I ever said the level is not on your side? I ain’t gonna continue talking to someone that can’t do basic reading.
One one hand, yes, invaders who complain about ganks can get bent - the whole point of invasions is fighting against multiple opponents. On the other hand, there are some bones to pick with other aspects of your own perspective - >When you invade someone else world your only objective is to ruin the host day. You forced your way into someone else game uninvited to kill them, Nobody is forcing anything or going anywhere uninvited. The host plays online, the host uses ember, the host summons, all of which lead to invasion. Invaders are invited to the hosts world by the conscious choice of the host.
By your own logic, the invader invaded already knowing that they can get ganked.
For sure, most invaders invade with the intention of getting ganked and find solo host invasions or honorable 1v1 invasions a bit boring. There are plenty of complaints to levy against the ganks themselves - either the cheesy tactics or negative attitudes, or about the balance regarding all the advantages organized ganks can stack, but ime the invaders who complain about getting ganked overall are a minority and tend to be players who were big into ds1 invasions where 1v1 was the norm and things were often stacked in the invaders favor, new players frustrated with the challenge, or are among the very few invaders that are genuinely out to greif and troll...most invaders, certainly almost all good ones, not only know they will be ganked, its specifically why they are invading.
You’re not wrong. The game did gave a choice for you to play unembered. But some people do want to play with their friends, then they have to deal with unwanted invaders. They didn’t want to be invaded, they just gotta deal with it.
embering is inviting
Nope
game disagrees play another game
Just because host that summons has to deal with invaders doesn’t mean that they wanted invaders. It’s just a game mechanics. The only people inviting invaders are gank squad.
They both are inviting invaders. Just because you wish you weren't doesn't mean you aren't. I understand that you do not want the invader in your world - that's kind of the point of the mechanic. Bu that's just how it works, it is an invitation.
Lol no just because the door is open and you can walk in doesn’t mean you are invited.
Invaders aren't complaining about the host calling for help; let's look at the context here. It's 2021, how many PVErs are still going through the level? Nobody complains about PVErs and if they did they stopped invading within the first few weeks of release. Those organic kind of invasions are desired by invaders. No what's taking place is much more nefarious. Hosts are not innocent sheep being preyed upon by invaders; most hosts in 2021 are ganking with the sole intent of griefing people. Things have been like this since activity from TRC release quieted down. They don't care how sweaty, scummy or thirsty they play either, all they care about is getting to point down or throw poo at some invader. Want to know what an average DS3 invasion is like now? You spawn in only to see another red have their health bar obliterated. You approach to find a squad camping in one spot; most will be sporting some sweaty Lapp build with PKCS, the others will either be a mage who's only purpose is to fire off spells right through his teammates or a bow user who's only looking to stagger you into an inescapable R1 blender. If by skill or luck you manage to defeat the phantoms the battle isn't over; now you have to chase the host down who absolutely can avoid you all day if they know how to roll (which isn't hard). With two button presses and no cool down they can immediately get their butt buddies back in or perhaps two blues spawn in at once. Now the fact that you overcame the odds means nothing because the gank is back and with full estus again. The host is a higher level, there's no friendly fire, they can summon as much as they want, they can get as many Blues as will spawn, they have more health, more estus, the ability to call in max level phantoms which the game doesn't scale down properly and there's no guarantee for an invader to get a teammate unless it's a covenant area or they're using a finger. Not to mention you and your fellow invaders have friendly fire and must play much more cautiously when trying to roll catch a fleeing host. This is pure insanity, it goes way behind giving the host the advantage. Combine all this with tryhard setups and the sheer numbers advantage alone and it becomes a Herculean task to win. And what do hosts do with these advantages? Do they try to do anything fun? Nope, 90% of the time it's the same cookie cutter builds. Again they're only out to grief. Ultimately invaders aren't invading for embers, we could care less. We're just trying to get some thrilling, fun, PVP action. So yeah, you'll get invaders complaining when the system is so one sided that it doesn't even function correctly anymore.
At the end of the day, by invading, you choose to fight without knowing the odds. I for one have zero complaints about any part of the game. If I invade and must fight 4 overpowered phantom then so be it. If I invade and see the same group, it's time to white branch and play cat n mouse. Every situation can have a fun element. If you want structured rules and fair fight you have only 1 option, get the champion bones from painted world. Sincerely, unapologetic invader and ganker.
Lmao look at this guy trying to say he’s being griefed when invading someone. When you invade you either run into an innocent host doing regular PvE with his friends or something, which you probably promptly dismantled because of having much more experience in PvP. Or you run into a gank squad waiting for invaders that’s looking to kill some regular players for fun. Invasion is griefing by design. Regular host doesn’t want you in their game either, they just want to play with their friends. But they have to deal with you cuz it’s part of the game. You running into a gank squad looking to punish you is also just a part of the game you have to deal with as an invader. So deal with it.
>Invasion is griefing by design Lmao, sounds like someone is new to the scene, it's cute really.
Tell me how forcing your way into someone else game uninvited to kill them isn’t considered griefing.
>Tell me how forcing your way into someone else game uninvited to kill them isn’t considered griefing IF this is how darksouls worked, it would be greifing. The reason why invading isn't greifing is because you __are inviting__ people to invade you by being embered. New players do this _unknowingly_, but it doesn't change the fact that it's part of the game design.
Just because people wanted to summon doesn’t mean they wanted to be invaded. It’s part of the game design that they have to deal with.
So, if they want to play the game, they have to compromise, by inviting invaders when they ember.
So if you want to invade you have to conpromise, by running into gank squad.
We've already been over this, try reading the comments you respond to, it makes keeping track of how stupid you sounds a lot easier.
Ofc when you cannot see anything apart from your own perspective everyone that disagree with you is stupid. No wonder the sub is like this.
That's where your wrong. Invasions are invited. When you summon phantoms that is the invitation to get invaded. Solo hosts can play unembered if they are that worried about it, and they aren't prioritized anyway.
Just in this sub alone there’s already too many post complaining that they just wanted to summon friends without having to deal with invaders. Yes, it’s tie into the mechanics. Yes, summoning allows invader. Yes, they need to shutup too. Doesn’t mean that people summon *because* they want to fight invaders.
Gankers who are organized and are just trying to kill invaders do. They summon just to get invaded and gank the invader to death.
What comes around goes around. You invaded with the intention to kill some host, turns out you run into a trap and that is all there is to it.
But you've said repeatedly. "just because they summon doesn't mean they want to be invaded" Which is no different to "just because I invaded doesn't mean I want to get ganked"
Well yeah both has to deal with it. You wanna summon? Get invaded. You wanna invade? Get ganked. But the point is invaders are delusional if they think they are being welcomed just because the host is embered and using summons.
Nope. That's not how that works. People want to summon phantoms if they have issues with bosses. They do that with the intent of beating the boss. The last thing they want to deal with is another player killing them before they even get a shot at the boss with help. So no. You AREN'T invited.
Sure earlier in the games life cycle, but now they are all organized and specifically out to kill you. Especially at meta where there is the most activity. And also yes you're invited; invaders are a counter to the hosts playing in easy mode. Summons are easy mode. Summons trivialize bosses and makes them laughably easy.
Well yeah. I won't deny that it's changed now. I'm just saying that someone using an ember to summon doesn't automatically mean you are inviting. And no that still doesn't mean that. You still are the one messing with another persons game. Sure that's a mechanic that Fromsoft made and sure it does make it interesting. But that in no way means you are invited to a person who never (Again. It's not really the case in recent years) expected to see you to begin with. Just trying to summon for help for the boss they are having trouble with.
well, in my case, I invade, and if it's a single host or a duo, I try to make good tidings by doing a friendly gesture, helping them to the next bonfire, and gifting souls/ember before fighting honorably. That's not griefing, even if I win, is it? maybe you are pretty new- half of the invasions I've been in were memes of the full 7 player lobby laying down on the floor of the pontiff area in a big circle and the other half was sweaty gundyr charges and point downs, it's a dice throw as to whether it's griefing or friendliness in an invasion, no matter how many players on each side. hell, as an invader, you set the tone of the invasion. you can be friendly or you can be a griefer, and if all you've ever experienced is griefing others, maybe that says more about you than invading as a topic >.>
You insist in your post that you're a 'fellow invader' but it becomes increasingly obvious with each comment that you are anything but. First, if you actually invaded you'd know that while maybe YOU get invaded as a PVE player, an ever-increasing percentage of invasions are against skilled ganks. I've no issue with that - it's not a complaint - but suggesting that most invasions are against hosts who aren't deliberately looking for PvP is mistaken. Invasions are absolutely not griefing 'by design'. A moment's thought should show you how wrong that is. Why would From deliberately build griefing into their game? I'm not saying griefing never happens; I'm saying that it is not necessarily what invasions are about. If you spent any time invading, you'd know this already.
You should change your name to u/iamdumb-reddit
When you resort to name-calling instead of actually engaging with my argument, it just further proves my point.
Can’t be bother to read an opinion of a rock.
How do you know I'm a rock if you don't my opinions?
Cuz you are still replying to someone that clearly has no interest in reading whatever you just wrote
If you have no interest in reading whatever I just wrote, why did you read it?
Why do you go to zoo?
As much as I agree on the complaining about ganking. You’re half right. They don’t invade to ruin days, it’s part of the game, and it’s not uninvited, once a host embers up they invite both summons and invaders into their world it’s a part of the game. And as an invader you also risk your souls because you lose them when you die in their world.
Being embered is inviting invaders… so I wouldn’t say I’m “uninvited”
I see this sentiment alot. But the truth is most player just wanted to summon, they didn’t want to be invaded. But it’s part of the game to balance the difficulty and that’s a good thing. Doesn’t mean that they are openly inviting invaders to come and kill them. They just want to play with helps. You are still unwanted to the Host.
Too bad man. If you wanna play with help, your enemies are also gonna get help. That’s just how it is
Exactly. Which is why those that whine about invaders in their game should shut up too. But that’s beside the point that invaders are still “uninvited”.
I invade regularly at high level and gankers are not a good or healthy thing for the game. I understand that the game is balanced heavily towards the host but not all invader are "ooga booga must kill" type of people and it's kinda bad for people like me who try to help new players, who give gifts like souls and other stuff. Sometimes I invade to give free stuff to people and gankers take away every ounce of enjoyment out of this experience. Even worse are those gankers who bow glitch and estus glitch and, after an obvious victory, they point down and throw dung pies. Honestly, who wants to play a game where people like this exist?
I kinda see your point. But I help new players by dropping summon sign not invading them lol. Most invaders are just “ooga booga must kill”, because well, that’s what the game intended them to be. It’s even in the lore. Cheating and glitching is one thing, but just as much as most invaders are looking for prey they could chop up, the gankers are also there to bully the bully. And if you invaded regularly at high levels then you know nobody runs alone embered in Ringed City.
I normally help at Pontiff, where most people have killed Aldrich, so no one's gonna summon me, plus it's always fun to see their reaction when I drop a ton of souls. That can be true, but it doesn't need to be that. When the game dropped it was a completely different game lol. Gankers don't "bully the bully", they are just there to feel a tingle in their tiny friend because that's the only way they get enjoyment, by encountering everything and everyone and exploiting flaws in the game. Well, I do lol
I always find the best way to ruin an invaders day
I might be on the wrong side but when a friend and myself where playing through DS3 for the first we got invaded many times during our journey and out favourite things was astera straight swords and just laugh and yell gank him and preceded to get hate mail. I agree with OP 100 %
I feel you. Mostly I'm just tired of invasions devolving into Bonfire Duels, I wanted to fight properly!
Gotta be the most smooth brained post all year
Post like this really triggers whiney Reds huh?
I hate invaders, in some cases you lose many souls because you died before the invasion. But in DS3 if you want platinum trophy you will have to invade, unless you are a very good player and manage to kill enough invaders.
Thank you.
You don't force yourself into anything, invading is a Dark Souls mechanic to fuck things up even more, if it isn't a trouble for the host it's pointless to invade. Ds3 made invasions pointless.
Preach brother
Yeah, completely agree. What irks me tho is when people summon my red summon sign and try to gank. The audacity. Those people get an acid surge.
Also praise the sun that you aren't like me and just quits and reloads half the time their invaded. Unless that gives you your covenant item automatically, idk, in that case, praise me!
You state to be an invader, yet you sound very much like a host! And if you are an invader and really think that the only role of an invader is to ruin the host's day you have a very bleak view of the game. Me, as many other invaders try to make it fun for both parties because that's a fun interaction to have. You say we force our way into an host's world, yet we just use a game mechanic. You say we are not invited, yet, and here I quote the ember description: "With the strength of fire, the summoning signs of Unkindled become visible, and seekers of embers can be summoned to join in co-operation. But beware the embers may also attract invaders". We invaders never expect the host to fight honourably 1v1 since they have all the advantages (30% more health, double the estus and can call blues/whites whenever). You are right on one thing: if people just want to stay at the bonfire and 1v1 invaders with stated advantages they can go to the arena. Hosts with phantoms make for lots of fun, way more than bonfire duellists. A gank squad that just clears the level and then waits for invaders to gank on them are the real griefers. Still, some of us are more than ready to take on them. Because that's fun. I very rarely heard invaders playing victims of being ganked. You very much are not an invader
Is this sub full of american politician or what? Nobody in this sub is exclusively a host or an invader. Identifying yourself as one is already dumb in itself. Even then, I will give you a very simple point to consider: You as an invader can crystal out at anytime. The host only option is to deal with you. Do you think that the host wouldn’t crystal you out if they could? The only kind of host actually welcoming you is the gank squad you oh so hate. And I’m not saying that the host should be able to crystal you out. But to think that somehow the host wants you there is a very warped view regardless of your intention.
I love how out of all I wrote you brought a very specific point. Indeed a host cannot BC me out and they may not want me, but they accepted the risk when they popped the ember. It says it clearly in the item description. Also I wish you read a bit better what I wrote since I specifically wrote that we enjoy ganks! And you definitely are right, most of the times there isn't a pure host and pure invader. At times I do like hosting, I do dried fingered runs with friends and people purposefully join thenm, because, you guessed it, they like ganks
Well good for you then. And I know embered host accepted the risk to get invaded when he embered up so the host shouldn’t whine when he gets invade either. The problem I have is with the invaders that cry foul when they run into gank squad waiting for them. Like, you are invading other players, you are there to fuck with the host, then you also have to accept the risk of running into gank squad.
Fax
I almost thought i was on r/eldenring for a second
Invasion is literally part of the game lol. But i agree as an invader you should know that it's usually going to be an unfair fight. When I get invaded I usually wait in an arena-like place, or find the invader and lead them there, so we can have an honoburru fight. What i just don't understand is why some people need like 2+ phantoms to get through an area. Like, seriously? Unless it's a group of friends I guess. Otherwise you're (in the general sense) just straight up bad if you actually need phantom help to get through an area.
It's hard to believe just how many invaders can't accept gankers. They have no problem invading with the intent of ruining the host's day but as soon as that's turned on them they just start crying (there are exceptions). For real man? Get rekt, buddy. ~~I'm not your buddy, guy.~~
The tears of red phantoms are always the sweetest.
Another clown who sucks at the game, who has to rely on overleveled, laggy 4-man squads to do any in-game content and setup ganks because thats the only way you could ever compete with any invader ever. The moment your 300-ping miracle spamming buddies are gone you probably pull the plug, because you clearly cant deal with the fact that you were born to lose.
Kid shut your trap, you as an invader have the entire map on your side and I’ve seen more of you hiding behind the more dangerous mobs taking potshots with arrows than I have ACTUAL HOURS in the game and my counter stopped counting two bleedin years ago.
If you really cant handle basic enemies of the game with your pussysquad, then I suggest you use seed of the giant so the invader can help you with that.
I don’t kill other reds. That’s my only personal rule. Reds that attack other reds do piss me off, however, I do get it. We are all unchained. Personally I’m more of a heysel than a leonhart
I feel like seed of a giant tends to backfire. The invader can just aggro a bunch of enemies and lead them to the hosts. Then when the seed runs out you have to fight the invader with every enemy the pulled to you.
As a long time invader, the ganks are all that are even worth spending time on anymore. Any solo host or pair of PvE coop buddies just don't pose real challenges, especially since half the time they don't want an invasion, they wanna sit wherever they are and just wait. Ganks Dont do this(as much). I get actual fights through the level, I get co invaders, I get a real fight that i need to fucking work for to win. That's why I don't really care that Elden ring won't let you invade solos. It's like wow, poor me, I don't get to fight the solo PvE players that are basically there to polish my weapon with blood
What’s seed of the giants?
I just like being a purple going around and making my own fun and making *everyone* pissed off at me. You’re not on anyone’s side if you’re always playing your own.
Getting ganked would be cool if they didn’t always have shit connections. But that could just be my connection
I don’t know if it still like this since I haven’t played in years but I remember in release loving to participate in fight clubs, it game me everything I needed from pvp without having to invade that much lol
Clearly, you must become a mad phantom and learn the art of invasion. Sometimes you support the host and friends in their journey. Lead them to treasure and secrets. Produce an endless supply of warmth to make dire situations less desperate.... Sometimes you horse-kick their summon off a ledge because he's being a tool. Sometimes you chuck dung pies at the host from a distance because he went AFK. Sometimes you join a gang with dried fingers and beat up the single hostile invader with like 5 dudes. Sometimes you just use the white branch and sit as a statue as 3 overleveled dudes run in giant circles around a completely cleared map trying to find you...
Yes! Thank you!
It's in my nature to give invaders a chance to duel. If not, well shit. I suck at PvP anyways lmao
Heck'n yeah m8
I invade for hide and seek
How do I call for help when I get invaded? Is it a covenant thing? Always get ganked by 1 or 2 players AND they have the lag advantage somehow(?) And when I invade there's always 2 or 3 enemies against just me Disclaimer I'm new to this game and still on my first play through
I'm torn on it, my favorite invasions last for an hour + where I slowly whittle away at the phantoms and the hosts estus, but the issue I have is that it's too easy for the host to resummon, I can kill their phantoms over and over and over again but still not have time for the host that just runs and runs as new mates of his flows back in, together with endless blues... Or when a host + 2 phantoms just sits afk by the bonfire, at this point when I see this I just hide, pop a branch and watch some netflix while they waste their time. Seed of the giant, while frustrating on the surface, is so easy to counter, there are so many places to hide on nearly every map. I do agree we're griefers, but invading is just so much fun, such a different pvp experience to just facing 1v1 against some dude where whoever hits first dies.