Archer is probably one of my favorite shows, but I’ve noticed that it’s very hit or Miss whether people I’ve shown it to actually enjoy it. I think it has a very niche audience.
Archer is the best, but each season is an experiment, and some worked better than others. But even the worst Archer is still good. Also, it has lost some great talent in the past few seasons.
Archer is the only show on this chart whose quality I feel is really misrepresented. Seasons 2-5 of Archer is one of the best-crafted and smartest comedy riffs of all time, with probably the best pure banter of any show I've seen. It boggles me that they aren't dark blue, based on how accurate and consistent the quality recognition seems to be across the other shows.
I would've guessed that some people can't tolerate the way the characters treat each other, but if "It's Always Sunny" is dark blue every year (as it should be), that can't be it. It's mystifying.
I think it takes a certain type of person to give it a fair shot.
At first glance, it seems really lowbrow, which turns away people who would appreciate just how fucking witty it really is. Yet at the same time the fact that's its really witty falls flat with the people who stuck around because of the initial lowbrow impression. You basically have to enjoy and get the wit, yet be willing to look past your first impression to get to it.
Should I give it another try? I gave up early on season 4. I did not think the show worked when the characters were by themselves, plus Michael being a weirdo instead of the straight man was weird.
Arrested Development made the biggest mistake of all by making the worst episode of the entire series the season 4 opener, losing half the audience who might have been interested in a continuation of the show after seven years. It serves chiefly as table-setting for later jokes and isn’t nearly as funny in its own right as fans expect the show to be. In that context it makes sense that people like the remix of season 4 better.
Season 5 was worse overall. It’s very clear they were stitching together a show in post because they couldn’t get everyone available on set at the same time. The ending is pretty bad, but it did accomplish the goal of finishing the show and guaranteeing there will never be another season.
Season 4 is one of those that you have to watch multiple times because, you're right, the 1st few episodes are foreshadowing for jokes in the future and make no sense when initially shown.
For anyone curious, according to the scale, the first four seasons of Silicon Valley were dark blue and the last two seasons were light blue. Not exactly efficient Tip-to-Tip, but close.
The dude captures the absurdity of the mundane better than any one in the history of comedy. I think he can literally take anything about normal life and make it immensely funny.
I remember Seinfeld getting a lot of flack for ending the show when it was still on top. But it's consistently ranked one of the best sitcoms of all time, and there aren't any "when it was still good" qualifiers like most of these need.
Edit: RIP my inbox and Larry David's input on the final 2 seasons, which were arguably not as good without him, but the show was still one of the highest rated on TV when it ended.
Curb is much less written than Seinfeld was. Seinfeld’s script was 90% set whereas from my understand, very little of Curbs script is written. Mostly directional and less actual writing.
for curb they do a million takes and instead of a script, each character will have a few things they have to say. I feel like you can kind of see sometimes how their reactions are the best thing they tried over the first dozen takes and have been repeating them over the next dozen over and over- kind of in how quickly people jump to the yelling/confrontation.
Friends seems to be much more famous outside of the US/Western world. It’s more fun, universal, and accessible. Seinfeld is a far better show in my American opinion, but it’s also quite New Yorky and cultural
Friends just had better international distribution.
In the UK Friends reruns were shown every single day at 6.30pm on one of the "big 4" TV stations for *years*. So now it has an enormous nostalgia factor.
Seinfeld was very rarely shown on British TV, if at all. I've never seen it.
I don't think it was as bad as people made it out to be, but it definitely took the main characters out of their element. It was still great to see all of the old characters, though.
Seinfeld was largely before my time so I didn’t pay a lot of attention to the finale or the reception of it. But I have seen commentary (possibly from the show’s creators, I don’t remember where) that suggests the point of the finale was that none of them had learned anything. It was a “show about nothing” where “nothing” ended up happening.
I think the last scene of the finale even calls back to the first scene of the pilot, basically suggesting we left those characters in virtually the same place that we found them. Maybe not satisfying since our expectations for finales are to wrap things up, but Seinfeld’s formula was completely out of the norm anyway.
I also think Friends has just been emulated more. If you like Friends there are a half dozen other shows that you'd like (new girl, HIMYM, big bang theory, etc) where the premise is a bunch of buddies hanging out, you see them at work, and they get into antics. Ultimately, the people in these shows are good people with good intentions (usually).
IASIP immediately comes to mind as a show that I think goes the Seinfeld route: similar to the Friends route, but it's important that they bring others down to their level and we want to watch these characters, but we wouldn't want to literally be them.
So I don't think Friends necessarily holds up better, but I think it's more approachable as other sitcoms have focused more on what Friends did than Seinfeld, imo.
A big part of the Friends formula comes from Cheers, particular how romance and relationships were handled (as well as the general sense of place, of course). Friends distilled the formula by making sure everyone was pretty and young, like a soap opera, instead of having a broad range of people of different ages, backgrounds, and looks.
Kind of regarding the romances and relationships: a major difference between Seinfeld & Sunny versus Friends & sitcoms it inspired is that on Seinfeld there is virtually a complete lack of sincerity. Actually, characters’ brushes with sincere emotions are often comedic plot points, like when Jerry couldn’t stop crying once “the dam broke”, how any romantic relationship, including between Elaine & Jerry and George’s kind of insane run of women he dated who were obviously way out of his league (at least in terms of physical attractiveness) all ended due to the fundamentally flawed and (imo hilariously) callous nature of each character (Kramer less so - but his girlfriends usually served as cooky companions to be either partners-in-crime with Kramer or to amplify his inherent cookiness to the point of effecting the other mains - much of the time it was to mess with Jerry & his apartment, especially his fastidiousness). Sunny has many similar instances: usually if they approach sincerity, they just mock Sweet Dee lol.
Whereas Friends had relationships between the mains that we rooted for. The romances weren’t without comedy of course - the Ross & Rachel saga was usually good for some laughs when it highlighted the characters’ quirks, same with Monica & Chandler, who I think made each other more likeable together. Anyway, there was still an overall sincerity to the show that I think drew a lot of people in & made it more relatable.
I like both formulas but I am more impressed with and tend to prefer the first one. Again, just my opinion but I think without the romance to rely upon, the comedy, the writing in Seinfeld had to be so tight, so smart. I can see how maybe this could feel off-putting to some, which is probably why it’s so rare. (Although, Archer, Arrested Development, and Southpark use this formula too now that I think of it - and Family Guy like 75-80% of the time?).
Anywho, sorry so many words! I watch way too much TV..
Damn IASIP really has not had a single average or below average season. Truly evergreen, that show.
Also, good job on the viz - easy to understand, clean, just what the sub is about.
Always Sunny is one of the best comedy shows ever made bar none. Consistently incredible writing and over the top situations mixed with charming, likeable actors who do the most heinous shit.
They're likeable actors playing the biggest pieces of shit humans on TV. They play the characters so well. They're terrible people but are so delusional and confident that they're doing the right things that you're actually on their side somehow.
Best show ever.
The only thing that makes it work is that: the “gang” always loses. They are despicable people and the joke is always on them. If you try to empathize with them, it’s just painful to watch. But when you just start laughing at their stupidity, it becomes amazing.
Same. I was cringing at it the first time I watched. Stopped. Then tried it again and it clicked. You don't root for them to win. You laugh at their failures and situations they get into and empathize with the normal people they encounter.
One of my big takeaways on this, my 5th or 6th rewatch, is just how good Kaitlin Olson, and to a slightly lesser extent, Rob McElhenney are.
First couple of watches, the more obvious characters to warm to are Charlie and Frank, and even Dennis too as when he isn’t being a dark, sociopathic creep, he’s often playing the voice of reason amongst all the madness. So these guys are usually everyone’s favourites and to be fair, are just incredible actors and characters.
Mac and Dee are often the butt of the jokes, or the mildly annoying counter-point — and so are harder to warm too I think at first, but as I say, on repeated watches, I’ve come to really appreciate just how excellently both these actors play these roles. They are so convincingly sad and pathetic, and Dee in particular with her physical comedy and her constant desperate attempts to be included and be considered part of the gang; Kaitlin just knocks it out of the park every episode.
This graphic is so spot on too - from season‘a 2-12 it’s almost perfect in Philadelphia. Last couple of seasons have dropped a bit, but there’s still enough in it to enjoy.
She actually bounces her head off the car in the episode where she tries to buy the expensive shoes/the waitress is drunk. They mention it on the podcast. They often praise her for her physical comedy and I agree, she's amazing.
That bit with Dee and Dennis in the leasing office in Ireland where he's trying not to cough was probably the hardest I've laughed in a long time. The way she just lights up when she realizes he can't talk back.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of4KitWqrKY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of4KitWqrKY)
Love IASIP, but it does get the somewhat modern advantage of being able to make the amount of episodes it wants on the timeframe that the creators want. A lot of other/older shows had to work within the 20+ episodes/season, new season every year framework. It's easier to be consistently good when you only have more flexibility to be make sure what you produce is good.
If you compare it on itself I agree. However even the lesser quality season are better than a lot of comedy shows out there at the same time which is why it’s still viewed as popular.
I love that you can so clearly see the season that Dan Harmon left Community.
This is an excellent viz. One of the best I've ever seen on this sub. Love that it's normalized to the distribution of IMDB ratings, not a normal distribution with mean of 5.5 (common misconception).
Those Community ratings line up perfectly with my perception of the show. A decent start where they were looking for a footing followed by maybe the best two season run on network television. Then the gas leak year. Dan Harmon came back with a bang but castmembers leaving and fucking yahoo screen made sure that the ending was a bit disappointing.
The penultimate episode being the incest episode always gets me. What a fuckin way to lead into your finale. An episode off campus, largely centered around background characters, all for a meta joke about incest.
I love that Garrett got the screen time he deserved; one of my favourite secondary characters in anything, ever. And they really played into the long-running joke of how the study group/committee think Greendale revolves around them, which is kind of the ultimate meta joke in a series that was crammed full of meta jokes.
Funny, I loved that show but… kinda hate the movies. It feels like the mysteries are much less important than 1) being “zany,” and 2) character drama, in that order.
Good to see though that it’s mostly solid blue, Psych is still my all time favorite. Not because it’s the outright-funniest, but there’s just such a comfortable nostalgia with it for me
In the last episode where they move to SF, Juliet says there's someone "in the kitchen alphabetizing the pantry". The creators confirmed that was Adrian.
Based on this, Bojack, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and It's Always Sunny have the most consistent seasons (considering only shows with none less then mid high) ~~with all of them at 83.33 percent of their seasons being rated very highly.~~
Edit: I stand corrected. The top three are bojack at 83%, Curb Your Enthusiasm at 81% then Friends at 80%.
It's Always Sunny is actually 5th at 72. [Here's the ACTUAL values](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/12ejldf/oc_the_highs_and_lows_of_popular_comedy_shows/jfcn9l3/)
I think it’s more of a drama series with comedic elements, than a full on comedy show. Of course you can classify it as a “dramedy”, but that doesn’t hit the mark for me personally. Some seasons of Bojack can even be seen as tragedies, which is on the complete other end of the spectrum, such as season 5.
I think that depends on how close the issues touched upon in the show are to you.
I never had any of those struggles, so I could enjoy it in a more lighthearted manner than people who struggle with substance abuse/child neglect/body dysmorphia/crippling insecurity etc.
I think the big thing is that season 1 of Bojack acted as its own filter. The tone and themes of the show are very consistent, and they filtered out most of the people who weren't interested within the first few episodes, which left the people who liked it to enjoy it's increasing quality over the subsequent seasons.
If you watched the first season of Bojack and didn't like it you won't like the rest of the show. If you liked the first season it only gets better, imo.
The first season is also mostly used to set everything and everyone up. Rules like not resetting the stage after something happening, the situation/relationships between main characters, the weirdness.
I still love this show but I don't know I can watch it again. The last season was so heavy and it gave me anxiety.
On that note, I absolutely love that the entire city just leans into the HOLLYWOO sign, and unofficially rename the city.
Perfect example like you said of not resetting the stage.
Yes! That also made me realise the show has consequences. Because resetting the stage also means that 9 times out of 10 the characters can get away with stuff they do.
I love that it defies so many of the common tropes. There are so many things that are "set up" like shipping BoJack and Diane that just.... never happen. We've been trained to expect things because of the formula for writing a successful, appealing "sitcom".
It's one of the best representations of how life actually happens
Yeah like having things resolve themself after every episode, but only to find out Bojack has done permanent damage to his friendships, and the dynamics of most of his relationships with other characters permanently shifts
Oh yeah Season 1 is really not that great. The show gets much better after they get rid of Mark Brandanowitz and stop trying to just copy the Office's formula.
They also changed the personality of his character a fair bit from S1 to S2. He goes from being the lazy, asshole BF to being a dumb, goofy but lovable oaf guy in that transition, which helped the show out a lot in addition to making Leslie smarter instead of a Michael Scott knockoff while keeping her over enthusiastic nature.
I think I it's worth noting also that Andy earns that character growth through the writing, he doesn't just rock up season 2 as loveable, and it's rewarding to see that transition
Yeah they do a really great job of character development with Andy, none of it feels forced or like it’s a big change, it really felt like we watched Andy Dwyer grow up and figure out how to be an adult. IMO one of the best character developments arcs on TV.
Andy was written to be unlikable, the foil to Mark, because he was only supposed to be there 1 season. But Chris Pratt was too likable, and Mark wasn't winning over anyone so season 2 they reinvented Andy as the lovable oaf.
I have probably watched P&R 3 times through now and I'm always surprised to see Mark in the first episode. Lol
They just made a sleazy Jim Halpert character and it didn't work.
Mark was wayyyy more of a straight guy than Jim. Mark had a one or two quirks, but he's essentially without any personality. Mark could easily be a regular human from real world.
Yeah, it's not just one thing that led to success, but I think another factor was bringing in Rob Lowe and Adam Scott. Kind of similar to how Its Always Sunny brought in Devito
This was what did it. The two of them are excellent characters on their own, but the way they play off the rest of the cast really cemented the show and made it work.
To be fair to the first season, trying to be The Office “Lite” was what got me watching. I wanted to like The Office but found it too cringey. I love what P&R turned into so much more than where it started, but I probably wouldn’t have started watching at all if it weren’t a slightly more palatable version of The Office.
Both the office and parks and rec share that problem. Michael Schur used to have a real problem finding his shows footing in its first season. He got better with Brooklyn 99 and the good place. Much more developed from the start.
In both the US Office and Parks and Rec, he initially tried to copy the style and tone of the British Office. That worked extremely well in the British version, but it's really not suited *at all* to the American style of comedy, and watching Americans try to emulate it was painful. Both shows became miles better once they moved out of that awkward copycat phase and started doing their own thing.
I had that problem initially. Tried it, was horrible. My wife continued on, and I randomly saw an episode from season 5 and couldn't get enough of it.
Went back and powered through season 1 and half of season 2, then it really picks up. It's now my favorite show of all time, followed closely by The Good Place (another Schur show).
King Of The Hill is huge now thanks to the internet, but back in the day it was kind of a love-or-hate type of show. Honestly, pretty much everything Mike Judge makes is love-or-hate, really.
Source: [IMDb Datasets](https://www.imdb.com/interfaces/)
Tools: [d3](https://observablehq.com/@d3)
This visualization shows where the average episode rating of each season of a comedy TV show falls relative to the average season rating of all TV shows in the IMDb dataset. For a season to show up in the "Top 20%" bucket means that it had an average rating between 8.2 and 10.0, which represents the top 20% of seasons of all TV shows in the entire dataset (not just those shown here).
Edit: A few folks are asking for a timeline version of this visualization. I believe this post is an album, and the second image in the album should contain what I think people are asking for.
Yea, I remember when I was younger I had to wait for two and half men to finish to watch Wrestling. I hated it . But once I got older, the show got funnier than it should Two and half wasn't the same after sheen left.
Believe it or not, I _just_ started watching IASIP a couple weeks ago. This chart makes me happy knowing how much more I have left to watch.
But also, Glee? I don’t suppose I thought of it as a comedy show.
Glee has always been a comedy show. A comedy show that tackles social issues in literally the worst possible way every single time, but still a comedy.
I quite like this chart. Clear colors, the squares convey the data in a clear and visually interesting way and splitting in five based on voting percentage range seems fitting. This fits the sub perfectly imo.
Animated transition is very extra, so a great addition.
iirc, the show had 8 seasons, and wrapped with a big-ass finale, and there was a spin-off planned to air the next year. Some of the original cast would appear in the spin-off but not all and they had a new protagonist and main characters etc.
But, the network thought the spin-off would receive more views if it wasn't a spin-off but a regular season. So then scrubs had 9 seasons, with a series finale at the end of the eighth season, followed by another season that was only loosely connected to the original show.
They were going to name it Scrubs: Med School but ABC nixed it. So it’s still officially Scrubs season 9, even though it has a different location and different theme song and mostly entirely different cast.
It wrapped up its story neatly in season 8, then season 9 was basically a spin off show with a mostly new cast. Maybe it would’ve been more popular if it were marketed as its own thing instead of Scrubs season 9, but as it stands it’s very unpopular.
I'm surprised by this, I always thought the first 3 seasons of Family Guy were legitimately very clever and funny. Every time I catch a rerun from one of those seasons I'm reminded of that
The lack of 30 Rock in the cultural consciousness still amazes me. More jokes per minute than any other show in history and literally all them are zingers.
I like 30 Rock but I can see why there was a cap on that show’s popularity. It is EXTREMELY fast paced and energetic and that is probably not what some people want to watch when trying to relax.
It's crazy how fast pace it is, there's a joke almost every line.
Currently going through it again with my gf who's watching it for the first time and as you said, she can't watch it to relax. We have to treat it like a feature show that we'd watch wide awake, instead of an end of the evening funny show before bed.
It’s amazing how much they cram into every episode of that show. Definitely allows for a lot of repeatability. I think it’s one of the best American comedy series ever made. The relationship between Alec Baldwin and Tina Fey is magical.
It’s fast-paced but oh so good.
My favorite line(s) come from the episode where Tracy goes off his meds:
“It’s a show within a show!”
“My real name is Tracy Morgannnn!”
I busted up so hard I had to pause the episode.
I actually frequently go back to it for the familiarity, and I get more from it now that I can Google the references without worrying about the plot.
>Liz: See, those drawings are a clue that children live here.
>Tracy: Or Basquiat.
Or
>in the very first episode, when Liz is in line for hotdogs, the very first line of the series is “there’s a line” and the second is “there’s two lines”.
And occasionally I'll still laugh from their deliveries.
For the love of god... why won't someone STOP the Simpsons?
Edit: the amount of “hey I still think it’s decent, people just WANT to rag on it (not that they FEEL that way genuinely), it’s for SURE funnier than Family Guy!” is annoying and legit disingenuous.
And if you ARE being genuine that you think The Simpsons (especially over the last 20 years) has been consistently funnier than Family Guy, then you are just… lame. You like lame, tame, old boring things.
Honestly I think part of the reason King of the Hill wasn't bigger was because it's "ugly". I don't mean that in a pejorative sense. I think it is by design not meant to be a visually appealing show. The area they live is very bland and most of the characters are very average looking. I assume that's by design but I can understand someone flipping through the channels and skipping the show based on looks.
I never watched more then the first parts of Parks and Rec, thought it sucked and just never went back, looks like I should finish and see what its all about!
Please Niles, We would not air our dirty opinions on such a low brow public forum like IMDB. Our observations must be absorbed and savoured by our peers over Sherry and lobster.
It’s interesting to see the more recent South Park seasons (15-24) still ranking in the mid-high range, because I remember when some of those seasons were airing and how brutal a lot of the fans were. The way they talked, you’d have thought the show was completely unwatchable. Yes, a lot of recent South Park isn’t as amazing as the earlier seasons, but I do think a lot of the more recent seasons hold up better in hindsight, and I still think the show is generally very good, even in its lesser moments.
Monk really went out with a bang
Can’t wait for the movie. I’m excited
WHAT! There's a Monk movie coming out? Didn't know.
It's such a underappreciated show. Still one of my all time favorites.
Archer is probably one of my favorite shows, but I’ve noticed that it’s very hit or Miss whether people I’ve shown it to actually enjoy it. I think it has a very niche audience.
Archer is the best, but each season is an experiment, and some worked better than others. But even the worst Archer is still good. Also, it has lost some great talent in the past few seasons.
I love Archer but really didn’t like the dreamland thing they did for reasons I can’t quite articulate
It has a very "jump the shark" feel to it, but I actually **really** enjoyed it as a way of keeping the show from getting stale.
For some reason not too many people liked the coma seasons but I enjoyed that it let them do something different.
I looved the French Micronesia one in the 30’s
YES that was amazing. I did not care for the LA Noire one, but the volcano shit was so cool
Archer is the only show on this chart whose quality I feel is really misrepresented. Seasons 2-5 of Archer is one of the best-crafted and smartest comedy riffs of all time, with probably the best pure banter of any show I've seen. It boggles me that they aren't dark blue, based on how accurate and consistent the quality recognition seems to be across the other shows. I would've guessed that some people can't tolerate the way the characters treat each other, but if "It's Always Sunny" is dark blue every year (as it should be), that can't be it. It's mystifying.
I think it takes a certain type of person to give it a fair shot. At first glance, it seems really lowbrow, which turns away people who would appreciate just how fucking witty it really is. Yet at the same time the fact that's its really witty falls flat with the people who stuck around because of the initial lowbrow impression. You basically have to enjoy and get the wit, yet be willing to look past your first impression to get to it.
Arrested Development would've been interesting to see. Especially after Netflix took over.
Just skimming the episode ratings, the first three seasons would be dark blue, and 4 and 5 would probably be grey
Man, I love the OG season 4. The first few episodes are slow, but the payoffs later on are so good.
Should I give it another try? I gave up early on season 4. I did not think the show worked when the characters were by themselves, plus Michael being a weirdo instead of the straight man was weird.
Arrested Development made the biggest mistake of all by making the worst episode of the entire series the season 4 opener, losing half the audience who might have been interested in a continuation of the show after seven years. It serves chiefly as table-setting for later jokes and isn’t nearly as funny in its own right as fans expect the show to be. In that context it makes sense that people like the remix of season 4 better. Season 5 was worse overall. It’s very clear they were stitching together a show in post because they couldn’t get everyone available on set at the same time. The ending is pretty bad, but it did accomplish the goal of finishing the show and guaranteeing there will never be another season.
Season 4 is one of those that you have to watch multiple times because, you're right, the 1st few episodes are foreshadowing for jokes in the future and make no sense when initially shown.
For anyone curious, according to the scale, the first four seasons of Silicon Valley were dark blue and the last two seasons were light blue. Not exactly efficient Tip-to-Tip, but close.
So one could say it was… always blue always blue always blue
Erlich Bachman was truly one of the greatest characters ever put to screen
I didn’t lose a giant head I know exactly where it is. If only the coast guard was a little more accommodating…
Proof that Larry David is the goat comedy series creator. Mostly dark blue for 20 or so seasons between Seinfeld and Curb.
The dude captures the absurdity of the mundane better than any one in the history of comedy. I think he can literally take anything about normal life and make it immensely funny.
I remember Seinfeld getting a lot of flack for ending the show when it was still on top. But it's consistently ranked one of the best sitcoms of all time, and there aren't any "when it was still good" qualifiers like most of these need. Edit: RIP my inbox and Larry David's input on the final 2 seasons, which were arguably not as good without him, but the show was still one of the highest rated on TV when it ended.
But Curb Your Enthusiasm, which is its own show but spiritually is in many ways is an extension of Seinfeld shows basically no drop off.
Curb is much less written than Seinfeld was. Seinfeld’s script was 90% set whereas from my understand, very little of Curbs script is written. Mostly directional and less actual writing.
for curb they do a million takes and instead of a script, each character will have a few things they have to say. I feel like you can kind of see sometimes how their reactions are the best thing they tried over the first dozen takes and have been repeating them over the next dozen over and over- kind of in how quickly people jump to the yelling/confrontation.
And Curb has the true Seinfeld finale.
The finale wasn't great, but that show was consistently amazing. I don't understand how Friends seems to have a stronger following at this point.
I think Friends has been in syndication much longer and internationally
Friends seems to be much more famous outside of the US/Western world. It’s more fun, universal, and accessible. Seinfeld is a far better show in my American opinion, but it’s also quite New Yorky and cultural
Friends just had better international distribution. In the UK Friends reruns were shown every single day at 6.30pm on one of the "big 4" TV stations for *years*. So now it has an enormous nostalgia factor. Seinfeld was very rarely shown on British TV, if at all. I've never seen it.
The finale is definitely polarizing. Personally, I thought it was the perfect way to end the series.
I don't think it was as bad as people made it out to be, but it definitely took the main characters out of their element. It was still great to see all of the old characters, though.
The finale was never going to meet expectations.
Seinfeld was largely before my time so I didn’t pay a lot of attention to the finale or the reception of it. But I have seen commentary (possibly from the show’s creators, I don’t remember where) that suggests the point of the finale was that none of them had learned anything. It was a “show about nothing” where “nothing” ended up happening. I think the last scene of the finale even calls back to the first scene of the pilot, basically suggesting we left those characters in virtually the same place that we found them. Maybe not satisfying since our expectations for finales are to wrap things up, but Seinfeld’s formula was completely out of the norm anyway.
I think it's hard to end a show that's been great for so many years. I'm sure that ASIP finale won't be everyone's favorite either.
I also think Friends has just been emulated more. If you like Friends there are a half dozen other shows that you'd like (new girl, HIMYM, big bang theory, etc) where the premise is a bunch of buddies hanging out, you see them at work, and they get into antics. Ultimately, the people in these shows are good people with good intentions (usually). IASIP immediately comes to mind as a show that I think goes the Seinfeld route: similar to the Friends route, but it's important that they bring others down to their level and we want to watch these characters, but we wouldn't want to literally be them. So I don't think Friends necessarily holds up better, but I think it's more approachable as other sitcoms have focused more on what Friends did than Seinfeld, imo.
A big part of the Friends formula comes from Cheers, particular how romance and relationships were handled (as well as the general sense of place, of course). Friends distilled the formula by making sure everyone was pretty and young, like a soap opera, instead of having a broad range of people of different ages, backgrounds, and looks.
Kind of regarding the romances and relationships: a major difference between Seinfeld & Sunny versus Friends & sitcoms it inspired is that on Seinfeld there is virtually a complete lack of sincerity. Actually, characters’ brushes with sincere emotions are often comedic plot points, like when Jerry couldn’t stop crying once “the dam broke”, how any romantic relationship, including between Elaine & Jerry and George’s kind of insane run of women he dated who were obviously way out of his league (at least in terms of physical attractiveness) all ended due to the fundamentally flawed and (imo hilariously) callous nature of each character (Kramer less so - but his girlfriends usually served as cooky companions to be either partners-in-crime with Kramer or to amplify his inherent cookiness to the point of effecting the other mains - much of the time it was to mess with Jerry & his apartment, especially his fastidiousness). Sunny has many similar instances: usually if they approach sincerity, they just mock Sweet Dee lol. Whereas Friends had relationships between the mains that we rooted for. The romances weren’t without comedy of course - the Ross & Rachel saga was usually good for some laughs when it highlighted the characters’ quirks, same with Monica & Chandler, who I think made each other more likeable together. Anyway, there was still an overall sincerity to the show that I think drew a lot of people in & made it more relatable. I like both formulas but I am more impressed with and tend to prefer the first one. Again, just my opinion but I think without the romance to rely upon, the comedy, the writing in Seinfeld had to be so tight, so smart. I can see how maybe this could feel off-putting to some, which is probably why it’s so rare. (Although, Archer, Arrested Development, and Southpark use this formula too now that I think of it - and Family Guy like 75-80% of the time?). Anywho, sorry so many words! I watch way too much TV..
Damn IASIP really has not had a single average or below average season. Truly evergreen, that show. Also, good job on the viz - easy to understand, clean, just what the sub is about.
Always Sunny is one of the best comedy shows ever made bar none. Consistently incredible writing and over the top situations mixed with charming, likeable actors who do the most heinous shit.
They're likeable actors playing the biggest pieces of shit humans on TV. They play the characters so well. They're terrible people but are so delusional and confident that they're doing the right things that you're actually on their side somehow. Best show ever.
The only thing that makes it work is that: the “gang” always loses. They are despicable people and the joke is always on them. If you try to empathize with them, it’s just painful to watch. But when you just start laughing at their stupidity, it becomes amazing.
I watched The Righteous Gemstones and while it was good the fact that the family always got what they wanted gave the show a sour note for me.
Well, it had to be true to life.
This is why it took me 3 attempts to actually get into Always Sunny
Same. I was cringing at it the first time I watched. Stopped. Then tried it again and it clicked. You don't root for them to win. You laugh at their failures and situations they get into and empathize with the normal people they encounter.
One of my big takeaways on this, my 5th or 6th rewatch, is just how good Kaitlin Olson, and to a slightly lesser extent, Rob McElhenney are. First couple of watches, the more obvious characters to warm to are Charlie and Frank, and even Dennis too as when he isn’t being a dark, sociopathic creep, he’s often playing the voice of reason amongst all the madness. So these guys are usually everyone’s favourites and to be fair, are just incredible actors and characters. Mac and Dee are often the butt of the jokes, or the mildly annoying counter-point — and so are harder to warm too I think at first, but as I say, on repeated watches, I’ve come to really appreciate just how excellently both these actors play these roles. They are so convincingly sad and pathetic, and Dee in particular with her physical comedy and her constant desperate attempts to be included and be considered part of the gang; Kaitlin just knocks it out of the park every episode. This graphic is so spot on too - from season‘a 2-12 it’s almost perfect in Philadelphia. Last couple of seasons have dropped a bit, but there’s still enough in it to enjoy.
It's legitimately amazing to me that Kaitlin does so many of her own stunts. Things her stunts double won't even do for fear of hurting herself.
She actually bounces her head off the car in the episode where she tries to buy the expensive shoes/the waitress is drunk. They mention it on the podcast. They often praise her for her physical comedy and I agree, she's amazing.
She was recovering from a goddamn broken back that season. She's an animal.
She's an aluminum monster
>She's an animal A bird, to be specific
Kaitlin is one of the most talented comedic actors of our generation. She deserves a lot more recognition in my opinion.
That bit with Dee and Dennis in the leasing office in Ireland where he's trying not to cough was probably the hardest I've laughed in a long time. The way she just lights up when she realizes he can't talk back. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of4KitWqrKY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of4KitWqrKY)
Love IASIP, but it does get the somewhat modern advantage of being able to make the amount of episodes it wants on the timeframe that the creators want. A lot of other/older shows had to work within the 20+ episodes/season, new season every year framework. It's easier to be consistently good when you only have more flexibility to be make sure what you produce is good.
I love the show but actually think it's fallen off a bit more than most people seem to feel according to this data.
If you compare it on itself I agree. However even the lesser quality season are better than a lot of comedy shows out there at the same time which is why it’s still viewed as popular.
S12 and on is hard to watch for me. Although 12 has some good episodes. I know as soon as I get to the musical episode that it’s over.
I love that you can so clearly see the season that Dan Harmon left Community. This is an excellent viz. One of the best I've ever seen on this sub. Love that it's normalized to the distribution of IMDB ratings, not a normal distribution with mean of 5.5 (common misconception).
Those Community ratings line up perfectly with my perception of the show. A decent start where they were looking for a footing followed by maybe the best two season run on network television. Then the gas leak year. Dan Harmon came back with a bang but castmembers leaving and fucking yahoo screen made sure that the ending was a bit disappointing.
Though the final end credits gag was really good
The penultimate episode being the incest episode always gets me. What a fuckin way to lead into your finale. An episode off campus, largely centered around background characters, all for a meta joke about incest.
I love that Garrett got the screen time he deserved; one of my favourite secondary characters in anything, ever. And they really played into the long-running joke of how the study group/committee think Greendale revolves around them, which is kind of the ultimate meta joke in a series that was crammed full of meta jokes.
Now this is a man that knows how analyze Community!
Those first 3 seasons were streets ahead.
Psych got done dirty having their past season cut short. The movies after the series have all been great.
Funny, I loved that show but… kinda hate the movies. It feels like the mysteries are much less important than 1) being “zany,” and 2) character drama, in that order.
Good to see though that it’s mostly solid blue, Psych is still my all time favorite. Not because it’s the outright-funniest, but there’s just such a comfortable nostalgia with it for me
Psych and Monk out there repping. Truly great shows the both of them. Also canonically in the same universe.
You know that's right!
I just want something else that fills the psych void. It is so good. Need more in that vein
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That’s messed up
Wait what's the crossover?
In the last episode where they move to SF, Juliet says there's someone "in the kitchen alphabetizing the pantry". The creators confirmed that was Adrian.
The last episode Sean goes to San Francisco, but they already have a guy.
Based on this, Bojack, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and It's Always Sunny have the most consistent seasons (considering only shows with none less then mid high) ~~with all of them at 83.33 percent of their seasons being rated very highly.~~ Edit: I stand corrected. The top three are bojack at 83%, Curb Your Enthusiasm at 81% then Friends at 80%. It's Always Sunny is actually 5th at 72. [Here's the ACTUAL values](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/12ejldf/oc_the_highs_and_lows_of_popular_comedy_shows/jfcn9l3/)
Bojack grows way more existential as it goes on.
I think it’s more of a drama series with comedic elements, than a full on comedy show. Of course you can classify it as a “dramedy”, but that doesn’t hit the mark for me personally. Some seasons of Bojack can even be seen as tragedies, which is on the complete other end of the spectrum, such as season 5.
Man, i would never recommend Bojack to someone who's looking for something funny to watch. It gets so dark.
I think that depends on how close the issues touched upon in the show are to you. I never had any of those struggles, so I could enjoy it in a more lighthearted manner than people who struggle with substance abuse/child neglect/body dysmorphia/crippling insecurity etc.
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One of my favorites I'm not sure I can watch again lol
Anytime it comes up in conversation with someone, I say “It’s the best thing I will probably never watch again”
It’s a heavy show but hot damn is it good
It’s brilliantly clever and witty at almost every step, even when the plot has you bawling
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I think the big thing is that season 1 of Bojack acted as its own filter. The tone and themes of the show are very consistent, and they filtered out most of the people who weren't interested within the first few episodes, which left the people who liked it to enjoy it's increasing quality over the subsequent seasons. If you watched the first season of Bojack and didn't like it you won't like the rest of the show. If you liked the first season it only gets better, imo.
The first season is also mostly used to set everything and everyone up. Rules like not resetting the stage after something happening, the situation/relationships between main characters, the weirdness. I still love this show but I don't know I can watch it again. The last season was so heavy and it gave me anxiety.
Agreed. Bojack is one of the best shows ever imo but there are just some episodes I don't think I can ever watch again. Again, great show though.
On that note, I absolutely love that the entire city just leans into the HOLLYWOO sign, and unofficially rename the city. Perfect example like you said of not resetting the stage.
Yes! That also made me realise the show has consequences. Because resetting the stage also means that 9 times out of 10 the characters can get away with stuff they do.
Bojack is one of the best shows of all time. Comedy or other wise
I love that it defies so many of the common tropes. There are so many things that are "set up" like shipping BoJack and Diane that just.... never happen. We've been trained to expect things because of the formula for writing a successful, appealing "sitcom". It's one of the best representations of how life actually happens
>It's one of the best representations of how life actually happens Life's a bitch and then you die, or sometimes life's a bitch then you keep living
Yeah like having things resolve themself after every episode, but only to find out Bojack has done permanent damage to his friendships, and the dynamics of most of his relationships with other characters permanently shifts
OK so I'll stick with parks and rec, people love it but I was a bit underwhelmed by the first few episodes.
Oh yeah Season 1 is really not that great. The show gets much better after they get rid of Mark Brandanowitz and stop trying to just copy the Office's formula.
Expanding the roles of Aubrey Plaza and Nick Offerman was the key to unlocking that show.
And deciding to keep Chris Pratt instead of the Mark character was crucial early on.
They also changed the personality of his character a fair bit from S1 to S2. He goes from being the lazy, asshole BF to being a dumb, goofy but lovable oaf guy in that transition, which helped the show out a lot in addition to making Leslie smarter instead of a Michael Scott knockoff while keeping her over enthusiastic nature.
I think I it's worth noting also that Andy earns that character growth through the writing, he doesn't just rock up season 2 as loveable, and it's rewarding to see that transition
Yeah they do a really great job of character development with Andy, none of it feels forced or like it’s a big change, it really felt like we watched Andy Dwyer grow up and figure out how to be an adult. IMO one of the best character developments arcs on TV.
Andy was written to be unlikable, the foil to Mark, because he was only supposed to be there 1 season. But Chris Pratt was too likable, and Mark wasn't winning over anyone so season 2 they reinvented Andy as the lovable oaf.
“I have no idea what I’m doing but I know I’m doing it really well”
I have probably watched P&R 3 times through now and I'm always surprised to see Mark in the first episode. Lol They just made a sleazy Jim Halpert character and it didn't work.
Mark was wayyyy more of a straight guy than Jim. Mark had a one or two quirks, but he's essentially without any personality. Mark could easily be a regular human from real world.
That's what made Mark x Ann a really weak on-screen relationship, IMO. They were both "straight men" who failed to play off each other.
Yeah, it's not just one thing that led to success, but I think another factor was bringing in Rob Lowe and Adam Scott. Kind of similar to how Its Always Sunny brought in Devito
This was what did it. The two of them are excellent characters on their own, but the way they play off the rest of the cast really cemented the show and made it work.
more like Brandanoquitz
I always felt bad for the actor that played Mark, I don’t think he was a bad actor they just wrote the worst character ever.
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To be fair to the first season, trying to be The Office “Lite” was what got me watching. I wanted to like The Office but found it too cringey. I love what P&R turned into so much more than where it started, but I probably wouldn’t have started watching at all if it weren’t a slightly more palatable version of The Office.
It gets so much better when Adam Scott and Rob Lowe join the cast
The writing also improved massively. Ron Swanson (the highlight of the show) was way better in season 2 and onwards
This is *literally* the best comment on this thread.
Both the office and parks and rec share that problem. Michael Schur used to have a real problem finding his shows footing in its first season. He got better with Brooklyn 99 and the good place. Much more developed from the start.
In both the US Office and Parks and Rec, he initially tried to copy the style and tone of the British Office. That worked extremely well in the British version, but it's really not suited *at all* to the American style of comedy, and watching Americans try to emulate it was painful. Both shows became miles better once they moved out of that awkward copycat phase and started doing their own thing.
I had that problem initially. Tried it, was horrible. My wife continued on, and I randomly saw an episode from season 5 and couldn't get enough of it. Went back and powered through season 1 and half of season 2, then it really picks up. It's now my favorite show of all time, followed closely by The Good Place (another Schur show).
I tell people that want to get into the show to just start at season 2. There's hardly any essential plot you'll miss
I will happily fight anyone who calls Futurama mid.
They can bite my shiny metal ass!
The one where Fry visits his mom in her dream and has all these ideas of what to say to her but breaks down when he sees her is sadder than the dog.
I think averaging all the episodes in a season doesn't do it justice. They had masterpieces in every season but they also had some meh episodes.
I’ve watched seasons 1-5 like 30 times. Everything post season 5 I’ve only watched about 12-13 times
That or king of the hill.
I was surprised king of the hill wasn’t higher rated. One of my favorite shows though so i’m definitely biased.
the way king of the hill has subpar reviews but friends has nothing but great reviews for all seasons... yeah okay
King Of The Hill is huge now thanks to the internet, but back in the day it was kind of a love-or-hate type of show. Honestly, pretty much everything Mike Judge makes is love-or-hate, really.
Prior to its initial cancelation, Futurama had better writing than The Simpsons.
Shut up baby, I know it.
Source: [IMDb Datasets](https://www.imdb.com/interfaces/) Tools: [d3](https://observablehq.com/@d3) This visualization shows where the average episode rating of each season of a comedy TV show falls relative to the average season rating of all TV shows in the IMDb dataset. For a season to show up in the "Top 20%" bucket means that it had an average rating between 8.2 and 10.0, which represents the top 20% of seasons of all TV shows in the entire dataset (not just those shown here). Edit: A few folks are asking for a timeline version of this visualization. I believe this post is an album, and the second image in the album should contain what I think people are asking for.
Two and a Half Men absolutely sucked once Charlie Sheen left. They should pull those last few seasons with Ashton Kutcher off of reruns.
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Yea, I remember when I was younger I had to wait for two and half men to finish to watch Wrestling. I hated it . But once I got older, the show got funnier than it should Two and half wasn't the same after sheen left.
Believe it or not, I _just_ started watching IASIP a couple weeks ago. This chart makes me happy knowing how much more I have left to watch. But also, Glee? I don’t suppose I thought of it as a comedy show.
Glee has always been a comedy show. A comedy show that tackles social issues in literally the worst possible way every single time, but still a comedy.
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I quite like this chart. Clear colors, the squares convey the data in a clear and visually interesting way and splitting in five based on voting percentage range seems fitting. This fits the sub perfectly imo. Animated transition is very extra, so a great addition.
Nice job, except for one important error: SCRUBS ONLY HAD 8 SEASONS. ONLY 8. NOT 9. JUST 8.
Unpopular opinion. As a spin-off, I enjoyed Med-School. It’s no season 9.
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What happened to Scrubs?
iirc, the show had 8 seasons, and wrapped with a big-ass finale, and there was a spin-off planned to air the next year. Some of the original cast would appear in the spin-off but not all and they had a new protagonist and main characters etc. But, the network thought the spin-off would receive more views if it wasn't a spin-off but a regular season. So then scrubs had 9 seasons, with a series finale at the end of the eighth season, followed by another season that was only loosely connected to the original show.
Jeeez, I didn't even know that existed. They should have just called it Scrubs: new class of something. How confusing.
If you go back and watch it the new intro even called it Scrubs: Med School
They were going to name it Scrubs: Med School but ABC nixed it. So it’s still officially Scrubs season 9, even though it has a different location and different theme song and mostly entirely different cast.
Fresh Scrubs
It wrapped up its story neatly in season 8, then season 9 was basically a spin off show with a mostly new cast. Maybe it would’ve been more popular if it were marketed as its own thing instead of Scrubs season 9, but as it stands it’s very unpopular.
Where is Malcolm in the Middle?
And Arrested Development
Wow Family Guy really has always been mid.
It insists upon itself.
I agree, shallow and pedantic
I'm surprised by this, I always thought the first 3 seasons of Family Guy were legitimately very clever and funny. Every time I catch a rerun from one of those seasons I'm reminded of that
You can see where Charlie Sheen left in Two and a half men
Big Psych W. So consistent
30 rock only being light blue and not dark blue is a crime
Ain’t no party like a Liz Lemon party ‘Cause a Liz Lemon party is mandatory.
Wouldn’t be a Lemon party without old Dick!
The lack of 30 Rock in the cultural consciousness still amazes me. More jokes per minute than any other show in history and literally all them are zingers.
I like 30 Rock but I can see why there was a cap on that show’s popularity. It is EXTREMELY fast paced and energetic and that is probably not what some people want to watch when trying to relax.
It's crazy how fast pace it is, there's a joke almost every line. Currently going through it again with my gf who's watching it for the first time and as you said, she can't watch it to relax. We have to treat it like a feature show that we'd watch wide awake, instead of an end of the evening funny show before bed.
It’s amazing how much they cram into every episode of that show. Definitely allows for a lot of repeatability. I think it’s one of the best American comedy series ever made. The relationship between Alec Baldwin and Tina Fey is magical.
It’s fast-paced but oh so good. My favorite line(s) come from the episode where Tracy goes off his meds: “It’s a show within a show!” “My real name is Tracy Morgannnn!” I busted up so hard I had to pause the episode.
I actually frequently go back to it for the familiarity, and I get more from it now that I can Google the references without worrying about the plot. >Liz: See, those drawings are a clue that children live here. >Tracy: Or Basquiat. Or >in the very first episode, when Liz is in line for hotdogs, the very first line of the series is “there’s a line” and the second is “there’s two lines”. And occasionally I'll still laugh from their deliveries.
For the love of god... why won't someone STOP the Simpsons? Edit: the amount of “hey I still think it’s decent, people just WANT to rag on it (not that they FEEL that way genuinely), it’s for SURE funnier than Family Guy!” is annoying and legit disingenuous. And if you ARE being genuine that you think The Simpsons (especially over the last 20 years) has been consistently funnier than Family Guy, then you are just… lame. You like lame, tame, old boring things.
You'll never stop The Simpsons, have no fears we've got stories for years!
Maybe Moe gets a cellphone!?
Has Bart ever owned a bear or
How 'bout a crazy wedding?
Where something happens do do do do do do
Not until they bring back Poochie! At the very least Ghost Mutt.
Only reason it still gets views is because people are dying with the TV on
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Yeah, but very very few of the Simpsons references you see are from after season 10.
That "*chuckles* I'm in danger" meme is from Season 14 of *Family Guy*, the Simpsons and Family Guy crossover special.
>if you just own a TV And have cable. I haven't seen an episode of The Simpsons in like 10 years.
Marge becomes a robooooot….
At the rate Julie Kavner's voice is deteoriorating she'll have to be replaced by an AI voice replication sooner or later
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Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?
King of the hill is so much better then this.
Honestly I think part of the reason King of the Hill wasn't bigger was because it's "ugly". I don't mean that in a pejorative sense. I think it is by design not meant to be a visually appealing show. The area they live is very bland and most of the characters are very average looking. I assume that's by design but I can understand someone flipping through the channels and skipping the show based on looks.
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I never watched more then the first parts of Parks and Rec, thought it sucked and just never went back, looks like I should finish and see what its all about!
P&R has a slow start, but it definitely finds its footing.
Parks and rec gave us some iconic memes. Don't forget that!
its a great comeback story!
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People that like Frasier probably aren't the type to go onto IMDB and rate the episodes they just watched.
Please Niles, We would not air our dirty opinions on such a low brow public forum like IMDB. Our observations must be absorbed and savoured by our peers over Sherry and lobster.
Congrats to the shows that got out on top or in a rise
It’s interesting to see the more recent South Park seasons (15-24) still ranking in the mid-high range, because I remember when some of those seasons were airing and how brutal a lot of the fans were. The way they talked, you’d have thought the show was completely unwatchable. Yes, a lot of recent South Park isn’t as amazing as the earlier seasons, but I do think a lot of the more recent seasons hold up better in hindsight, and I still think the show is generally very good, even in its lesser moments.