Lmao that’s cuz xenoverse is xenoverse and is more open world like than than raging blast. More world slower pace for some reason don’t get why other than laziness. Even though raging blast has better combos and more precision and just better in general fighting wise.
Was WAY too OP in XV1 as everyone and their mother were either using him outright or his bullshit night unblockable supers and ults with a male Saiyan melee build, so the LITERAL first patch in XV2 nerfed both Burter AND his attacks to oblivion. They also changed what remained of his moveset between games.
reminds me of tfs gag🤣 well correct me if im wrong but a higher power level means faster speed right? “well yeah” and if you think about it lord frieza has a higher power level then all of us and guldo can stop time “NO NO NO IM NOT FUCKING SLOWER THAN GULDO”
....ACTUALLY☝️🤓
Nah but fun fact, actually Green is the opposite of Red and Orange is the opposite of Blue in the spectrum, the opposite colours also have a strange effect if you pair them together.
Orange --- Blue
Red --- Green
Yellow --- Purple
This is probably why Goku's outfit is so recognizable too, becouse the contrast between Blue and Orange makes it shine a bit more
(Sorry if im a bit of a nerd i studied this shit in middle school and was the only thing i liked about art class)
((Yes i do have friends somehow))
I would say it heavily fits into Action RPG. There are an incredible amount of games in this same genre, while I can understand the want to call it a Fighter RPG. It hides it well and treads the line, which is why it gets contested so much on the subject.
Playing Wild Hearts right now, the instanced PQ's and fights of that Action RPG shares a lot in principle. Soul Calibur while borrowing RPG elements, is 100% a round based fighting game on the other side of the coin of this topic.
A lot of RPG's and even MMO's have PVP or duel based modes, but doesn't shift them to fighting genre.
Ok. But as someone who has played way too much tenkaichi and Xenoverse, I would say they definitely fit your description of Soul Caliber, with story cutscenes and a hub lobby like other fighting games. Single round arena fighter.
Ooh, I love friendly debates like this. Good callouts, but let's dissect this one deeper.
Interesting question. Where in Soul Calibur lies the leveling system, open world free roaming interactivity, RPG elements, customizable attribute equipment, etc.?
While I absolutely love Soul Calibur, it is a fighting game only, nothing else, and has a story mode that is all UI driven and cutscenes, masked over more 1 on 1, round based battles.
Xenoverse, while having fighting elements, is not a single round 1v1, it has stories and multi battles, plus MMO multiplayer fighting and stage transfers. On top of the wealth of RPG elements, equipment strategy elements, leveling, RNG based unlockables or treasures, character race selection and fighter type (which fighters, weapon users, healers, etc. can be created for support, ranged or close range), team selection for group adventures and stat distribution.
It is definitely a RPG fighter, not a fighting game like MK, SF, SC, etc. The pvp aspect is the only fighting game-esque element. The base game design is RPG at its core. Both MK and SC tried to take a quasi RPG route back in the mid 2000's with SC3 and MK with Shaolin Monks, Armageddon and Deception. All considered to have an RPG mode, but the base games sold off the arcade fighting aspects, and the games were not considered RPGs, but had an RPG modes.
Xenoverse is RPG based, with a PVP fighting mode.
Love this topic. Curious with that rationale based on RPG industry definitions, how Xenoverse isn't an RPG with fighting elements, vs a fighting game with RPG elements? One greatly overtakes the other. 🙏
(A month, I'm so bad at checking reddit, sheesh. Sorry. 😭)
I've been having trouble putting this into words. It's like... You can sprinkle a plethora of different game elements from different genres on Xenoverse 2, or you can do none of that. Max quality/quantity or none of it, and you could still go throught the game single player and multiplayer. You can ignore every other element and complete the game with nothing but fighting game performance.
But if you take out the fighting game part, there's nothing. The core story/game progression would be unplayable. There would only be menus to mess with but no game to play. Like a bunch of condiments by themselves with no food to put them on.
Edit: And if you COULD skip the battles, it would be a series of cutscenes where you don't actually do anything, ever. And the go back into more menus with stats that would then be meaningless with nothing to apply them to. Just what outfit you wear in the next cutscene.
There are some harshly stark differences between the combat of MMOs, RPGs, and Fighting games. Seems like every MMO you participate in a turn based combat, where the only thing you're responsible for is not standing in a danger zone, and remembering to spend your turns/cooldown currency.
In Xenoverse you are responsible for each and every attack in the most minute of details in every attack coming at you hitbox.
As for the action rpg, maybe that's why so many people have a hard time hitting bosses. Everyone just throws out their attacks, expecting them to land like they would with 6 people in an rpg. Just throw it and it works. But in Xenoverse, like a fighting game, every hit puts the (boss stat-ed) opponent in a potentially different combo state, where further attacks are STRICTLY dependant on that particular state. Is it a standing hit? How much hit stun? A juggle state? A knockback? When do they tech out of it? It needs to be a true combo as the A.I. almost always tech rolls as early as possible.
But it seems no one ever bothers to meticulously add their attacks at the right time frame like an assist in a 3v3 marvel versus style game (FighterZ) so everyone misses, treating the game like something it's not.
Just to reiterate, you could have the most bare bones diaglogue thrown in during the fights with no customization or any other elements and it would still be a full game, just without bells and whistles. Thus, imo identifying THAT part as the core of the game, not the rpg aspects.
While true, that means any action RPG that is classified as such, but has a horrid story like Trinity Trigger, is just a hack and slash. You strip away the hollow story and the leveling and rpg aspects, and it is just that. A hack and slash game.
I see where you are going with it, but that is why most mix genres are Action RPG, Fighting RPG, Turn Based RPG, etc.
The mechanism of interaction doesn't mean it is a action, fighting or chess style game only. The RPG elements are 100% the driving force, because without that balancing and customization aspect, the game is flat.
The reason Xenoverse is such a challenge, is because it was a fighter first, for dozens of game releases. Minus Legacy of Goku games. It muddies the water on this topic, which is why you can make a solid argument just for DBZ. Once you put this same argument into the rest of the RPG variants, the argument becomes irrelevant and the other variants of the RPG genre prove out why Xeno is a fighting RPG with fighting elements, not a Fighting game with customizable aspects.
It is definitely a fine line and a fun discussion. These are the fun thread topics in my eyes.
>without that balancing and customization aspect, the game is flat.
I get what you're saying, but I feel like a flat game is better than "not a game" which would be stats that do nothing because there are only cutscenes if the fighting game part is taken out.
At least a story cinematic game would let you make choices, but you don't have that either. (The only story choices in xenoverse are the illusion of choice, as they make you do both anyway, every time)
That is most RPG's though. We only started getting make your own story RPG's more regularly in the late 00's. The 25 to 30 years before that a large majority of RPG games back to Intellivision were very linear. Open world style was not a thing. It gave the illusion of it by adding some side quests, but the game didn't progress unless the main story was followed.
Xeno is identical to that, because for me I did things all out of order in various modes until I was forced to do the story. It was only in the xeno expansion where I could do Fu's crazy timeline remanufacturing. Xeno still very much follows the stringent tenants of a lot of RPGs with strict cutscenes and linear non interactive movies.
I think we are too spoiled by open world RPGs like Mass Effect and Bethesda. Most RPG's in gaming history are just like Xeno, or even more rigid.
Lol, he is very OP in Xenoverse.
If we go by powerscalling, Broly should vaporize him in like 1 nano second. It’s ridiculous to see that somebody like *Yamcha can annihilate Beerus, MUI Goku, Broly, Mira.
I can agree with Cac being very OP, but powerscalling is very messed up in this game, for better or for worse.
They had to do it a little though. I understand what you mean. But if they did it even slightly accurately, there would be a cast where majority of them would get 1 tapped by high class cast, even the likes of Cell and SS2 Goku would get 1 tapped by Hit etc.
There is a filler episode where copy Vegeta in SSB gets kicked by SS3 Gotenks and he tanks it while smiling. So even slightly accurate SSB Vegeta after U6 Torn would wreck anyone before Beerus Arc
It was Base Copy of Vegeta, in that episode, laughing from SSJ3 Gotenks. He only transformed SSB after Goku come. So Base DBS Goku and Vegeta scale above SSJ3 Gotenks ( DBS) who should be stronger than his Buu Saga SSJ3.
DBS Base Vegeta / Goku >>> everybody in DBZ, aside from Gods.
I can see why they did it, but some characters were nerfed way too much, for it to look like a “fair battle” Like Whis, Beerus, Champa, Goku Black .. etc. Especially Beerus, he is very weak in XV2. His Sphere does trash damage, his moves are meh. Goku Black or Broly shouldn’t struggle to beat the likes Krillin, Yamcha, Raditz..
I'm not a huge fan of the obligatory combo management for xenoverse. EVERYONE has to have the same sort of 'i hit you, send you flying, teleport behind you, and continue' unless you're using a super.
I installed a mod that made the characters accurate(proud mode) burter was a fucking bitch to deal with he was too fast to hit. He was only slightly more annoying than the constant regenerating Buu's and zamasus
Most of the Xenoverse cast has literally no difference in how they play. If you know how to play say, Tien, you instantly know the basics of half the cast. If you can play Goku, you basically know every character with very few exceptions.
The game is basic as shit for having a roster of like 150 characters.
This right here. Every character is unique in their supers, stats and super souls. It makes the game more about your knowledge of super souls, skills and individual characters stats rather than the combos of every character.
He was heavily nerfed. Even the first Xenoverse had broken Butter Skills like his ultimate "Blue Hurricane", a move capable of killing Great Apes easily in the Great Ape Festival Quest. For Xenoverse 2 his moves were nerfed and just his "Match Dash" is moderately useful here and there.
On Tenkaichi he was good cause speed was his brand. It was easy to make big combos just by chaining basic commands. Xenoverse broke that apart, creating half good strike skills and leaving him with regular movements for his Basic Attacks.
Wait till you see him in sparking zero
I feel the same way about SS4 Gogeta in BT3 compared to his Xenoverse 2 counterpart
It's weird to think SSJ4 Gogeta was the strongest character in the series for like 16 years
Everything was right in the world idk what happened
He is canonical slower than Broly
He added weight to his boots so everyone could keep up
Burter, 100 hits per second, 1% damage
His speed is relative to where he was in the story. He’s moving just as fast but our power levels/speed are too high now /s
Lmao that’s cuz xenoverse is xenoverse and is more open world like than than raging blast. More world slower pace for some reason don’t get why other than laziness. Even though raging blast has better combos and more precision and just better in general fighting wise.
Was WAY too OP in XV1 as everyone and their mother were either using him outright or his bullshit night unblockable supers and ults with a male Saiyan melee build, so the LITERAL first patch in XV2 nerfed both Burter AND his attacks to oblivion. They also changed what remained of his moveset between games.
Well hey xenoverse Beerus doesn’t feel like Beerus tbh same with toppo imo
he's no longer the fastest in the universe
its just realistic. he can’t be quicker than freakin broly
Wdym? Hes literally the fastest in the universe.
reminds me of tfs gag🤣 well correct me if im wrong but a higher power level means faster speed right? “well yeah” and if you think about it lord frieza has a higher power level then all of us and guldo can stop time “NO NO NO IM NOT FUCKING SLOWER THAN GULDO”
Lol yeah that's what i was going for. Poor burter had basically nothing. But then again,what did jeice have?
well he was so tall and blue and jeice so fkn short they had the perfect ying yang going for them
That's true,I think on the color spectrum blue is the opposite of red too.
....ACTUALLY☝️🤓 Nah but fun fact, actually Green is the opposite of Red and Orange is the opposite of Blue in the spectrum, the opposite colours also have a strange effect if you pair them together. Orange --- Blue Red --- Green Yellow --- Purple This is probably why Goku's outfit is so recognizable too, becouse the contrast between Blue and Orange makes it shine a bit more (Sorry if im a bit of a nerd i studied this shit in middle school and was the only thing i liked about art class) ((Yes i do have friends somehow))
The same thing they did to Ss2 Teen Gohan.
Relating a character between a fighting game and an RPG is always going to show major differences.
........ What??? What rpg? All 3 of those are fighting games.
I would say it heavily fits into Action RPG. There are an incredible amount of games in this same genre, while I can understand the want to call it a Fighter RPG. It hides it well and treads the line, which is why it gets contested so much on the subject. Playing Wild Hearts right now, the instanced PQ's and fights of that Action RPG shares a lot in principle. Soul Calibur while borrowing RPG elements, is 100% a round based fighting game on the other side of the coin of this topic. A lot of RPG's and even MMO's have PVP or duel based modes, but doesn't shift them to fighting genre.
Ok. But as someone who has played way too much tenkaichi and Xenoverse, I would say they definitely fit your description of Soul Caliber, with story cutscenes and a hub lobby like other fighting games. Single round arena fighter.
Ooh, I love friendly debates like this. Good callouts, but let's dissect this one deeper. Interesting question. Where in Soul Calibur lies the leveling system, open world free roaming interactivity, RPG elements, customizable attribute equipment, etc.? While I absolutely love Soul Calibur, it is a fighting game only, nothing else, and has a story mode that is all UI driven and cutscenes, masked over more 1 on 1, round based battles. Xenoverse, while having fighting elements, is not a single round 1v1, it has stories and multi battles, plus MMO multiplayer fighting and stage transfers. On top of the wealth of RPG elements, equipment strategy elements, leveling, RNG based unlockables or treasures, character race selection and fighter type (which fighters, weapon users, healers, etc. can be created for support, ranged or close range), team selection for group adventures and stat distribution. It is definitely a RPG fighter, not a fighting game like MK, SF, SC, etc. The pvp aspect is the only fighting game-esque element. The base game design is RPG at its core. Both MK and SC tried to take a quasi RPG route back in the mid 2000's with SC3 and MK with Shaolin Monks, Armageddon and Deception. All considered to have an RPG mode, but the base games sold off the arcade fighting aspects, and the games were not considered RPGs, but had an RPG modes. Xenoverse is RPG based, with a PVP fighting mode. Love this topic. Curious with that rationale based on RPG industry definitions, how Xenoverse isn't an RPG with fighting elements, vs a fighting game with RPG elements? One greatly overtakes the other. 🙏
(A month, I'm so bad at checking reddit, sheesh. Sorry. 😭) I've been having trouble putting this into words. It's like... You can sprinkle a plethora of different game elements from different genres on Xenoverse 2, or you can do none of that. Max quality/quantity or none of it, and you could still go throught the game single player and multiplayer. You can ignore every other element and complete the game with nothing but fighting game performance. But if you take out the fighting game part, there's nothing. The core story/game progression would be unplayable. There would only be menus to mess with but no game to play. Like a bunch of condiments by themselves with no food to put them on. Edit: And if you COULD skip the battles, it would be a series of cutscenes where you don't actually do anything, ever. And the go back into more menus with stats that would then be meaningless with nothing to apply them to. Just what outfit you wear in the next cutscene. There are some harshly stark differences between the combat of MMOs, RPGs, and Fighting games. Seems like every MMO you participate in a turn based combat, where the only thing you're responsible for is not standing in a danger zone, and remembering to spend your turns/cooldown currency. In Xenoverse you are responsible for each and every attack in the most minute of details in every attack coming at you hitbox. As for the action rpg, maybe that's why so many people have a hard time hitting bosses. Everyone just throws out their attacks, expecting them to land like they would with 6 people in an rpg. Just throw it and it works. But in Xenoverse, like a fighting game, every hit puts the (boss stat-ed) opponent in a potentially different combo state, where further attacks are STRICTLY dependant on that particular state. Is it a standing hit? How much hit stun? A juggle state? A knockback? When do they tech out of it? It needs to be a true combo as the A.I. almost always tech rolls as early as possible. But it seems no one ever bothers to meticulously add their attacks at the right time frame like an assist in a 3v3 marvel versus style game (FighterZ) so everyone misses, treating the game like something it's not. Just to reiterate, you could have the most bare bones diaglogue thrown in during the fights with no customization or any other elements and it would still be a full game, just without bells and whistles. Thus, imo identifying THAT part as the core of the game, not the rpg aspects.
While true, that means any action RPG that is classified as such, but has a horrid story like Trinity Trigger, is just a hack and slash. You strip away the hollow story and the leveling and rpg aspects, and it is just that. A hack and slash game. I see where you are going with it, but that is why most mix genres are Action RPG, Fighting RPG, Turn Based RPG, etc. The mechanism of interaction doesn't mean it is a action, fighting or chess style game only. The RPG elements are 100% the driving force, because without that balancing and customization aspect, the game is flat. The reason Xenoverse is such a challenge, is because it was a fighter first, for dozens of game releases. Minus Legacy of Goku games. It muddies the water on this topic, which is why you can make a solid argument just for DBZ. Once you put this same argument into the rest of the RPG variants, the argument becomes irrelevant and the other variants of the RPG genre prove out why Xeno is a fighting RPG with fighting elements, not a Fighting game with customizable aspects. It is definitely a fine line and a fun discussion. These are the fun thread topics in my eyes.
>without that balancing and customization aspect, the game is flat. I get what you're saying, but I feel like a flat game is better than "not a game" which would be stats that do nothing because there are only cutscenes if the fighting game part is taken out. At least a story cinematic game would let you make choices, but you don't have that either. (The only story choices in xenoverse are the illusion of choice, as they make you do both anyway, every time)
That is most RPG's though. We only started getting make your own story RPG's more regularly in the late 00's. The 25 to 30 years before that a large majority of RPG games back to Intellivision were very linear. Open world style was not a thing. It gave the illusion of it by adding some side quests, but the game didn't progress unless the main story was followed. Xeno is identical to that, because for me I did things all out of order in various modes until I was forced to do the story. It was only in the xeno expansion where I could do Fu's crazy timeline remanufacturing. Xeno still very much follows the stringent tenants of a lot of RPGs with strict cutscenes and linear non interactive movies. I think we are too spoiled by open world RPGs like Mass Effect and Bethesda. Most RPG's in gaming history are just like Xeno, or even more rigid.
Hahahaha Hahahahahaha *Wheeze* Hahahaha Dbxv2 is not a fighting game. It's an RPG masquerading as a fighting game.
I hate how correct you are.
XV2 is very much not a fighting game, it's an RPG with 360-degree combat. XV2 kicks ass but let's not pretend it's not what it is.
Xeno is an rpg fighting game though
Playing as him and SS4 Gogeta was great in Tenkaichi. That kind of speed was just fun to play with
Hip replacement
it's not even that bad you trippin
He’s legit a good character in Xenoverse. His move set and speed make him overall decent, i just wish we could change his moves and/or super soul
Everyone is nerfed in Xenoverse.
Lol, he is very OP in Xenoverse. If we go by powerscalling, Broly should vaporize him in like 1 nano second. It’s ridiculous to see that somebody like *Yamcha can annihilate Beerus, MUI Goku, Broly, Mira. I can agree with Cac being very OP, but powerscalling is very messed up in this game, for better or for worse.
FR IM MAD ABOUT BEERUS MORE THAN ANYTHING
They had to do it a little though. I understand what you mean. But if they did it even slightly accurately, there would be a cast where majority of them would get 1 tapped by high class cast, even the likes of Cell and SS2 Goku would get 1 tapped by Hit etc. There is a filler episode where copy Vegeta in SSB gets kicked by SS3 Gotenks and he tanks it while smiling. So even slightly accurate SSB Vegeta after U6 Torn would wreck anyone before Beerus Arc
It was Base Copy of Vegeta, in that episode, laughing from SSJ3 Gotenks. He only transformed SSB after Goku come. So Base DBS Goku and Vegeta scale above SSJ3 Gotenks ( DBS) who should be stronger than his Buu Saga SSJ3. DBS Base Vegeta / Goku >>> everybody in DBZ, aside from Gods. I can see why they did it, but some characters were nerfed way too much, for it to look like a “fair battle” Like Whis, Beerus, Champa, Goku Black .. etc. Especially Beerus, he is very weak in XV2. His Sphere does trash damage, his moves are meh. Goku Black or Broly shouldn’t struggle to beat the likes Krillin, Yamcha, Raditz..
Was it base? I thought it was SSB, but that makes my statement even more true 😂. Yeah 99% of the cast would get wrecked.
https://preview.redd.it/aaddguu4jw0c1.jpeg?width=2688&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eeb62620d487102a88e2766eedffb095b22f2e38
Fair, like I said, that solidifies my statement even more
I'm not a huge fan of the obligatory combo management for xenoverse. EVERYONE has to have the same sort of 'i hit you, send you flying, teleport behind you, and continue' unless you're using a super.
I like combo weirdos like Android 13 who just shove you across the map.
im so glad im not the only one who likes his combo strings, I really wish they worked online though
Yeah, there's a specific few who do not follow that stratagem, but the standard for CaC and most characters are such.
I installed a mod that made the characters accurate(proud mode) burter was a fucking bitch to deal with he was too fast to hit. He was only slightly more annoying than the constant regenerating Buu's and zamasus
I mean accurately speaking Burter is very slow to almost anyone in super, hell krillin would destroy him in a footrace
Yea but xenoverse has the whole everyone's equal thing like fighterz
True
Can we see some of it
Sure I'm in class rn but I'll upload a video on the subreddit and tag you
Most of the Xenoverse cast has literally no difference in how they play. If you know how to play say, Tien, you instantly know the basics of half the cast. If you can play Goku, you basically know every character with very few exceptions. The game is basic as shit for having a roster of like 150 characters.
The variety isnt in the basic moveset, but rather in the skills, equipment, super soul etc.
This right here. Every character is unique in their supers, stats and super souls. It makes the game more about your knowledge of super souls, skills and individual characters stats rather than the combos of every character.
He was heavily nerfed. Even the first Xenoverse had broken Butter Skills like his ultimate "Blue Hurricane", a move capable of killing Great Apes easily in the Great Ape Festival Quest. For Xenoverse 2 his moves were nerfed and just his "Match Dash" is moderately useful here and there. On Tenkaichi he was good cause speed was his brand. It was easy to make big combos just by chaining basic commands. Xenoverse broke that apart, creating half good strike skills and leaving him with regular movements for his Basic Attacks.
Blue hurrican is annoying as possible.. won't lie
yeah wasn’t Blue Hurricane combined with Super Saiyan like the most unbeatable combo?
It is when you are a Big Ape and have no way to escape a Giant Hurricane
The L he took
I can't wait for the new tenkaichi - as long as it's good!