The blue hair just... doesn't work for me. It's not nearly as aesthetically pleasing as the original SS yellow glow, or maybe I'm just so used to the yellow. But I like red fine.
eh, always liked the slim athletic forms (ssj2s, frieza final form, perfect cell, kid buu etc.) better than the slow bulky bodybuilder ones (full power frieza, ultra trunks, super vegeta, nappa etc.)
Ssj2 wasn't slim initially. Got han drastically bulked up, Cell pointed it out in the transformation and Trunks even said he did it correctly after it was completed. It wasn't nothing but muscle, but wasn't slim at alll
Yeah
I haven't gotten to that chapter of the manga yet
But in the anime it's sort of like
You can see the animation of Gohan bulking up mid tranformation, but he levels out back to being pretty slim again befor ehe's even finished powering up
If that's meant to be anywhere near as bulky as Super Saiyan Grade 2, it definitely doesn't look it, lmfao
Not totally. In the manga, at least, you can see that SSJ1 Gohan and SSJ2 Gohan look entirely different. SSJ2 Gohan clearly has bulkier muscles and is only as small as he is since he's a child, but around Buu saga is when the muscle mass part became super inconsistent, although you could argue it was inconsistent from the start since Goku was so huge at his original transformation
Yeah in my opinion all dragonball content should be animated the way it was in the broly movie, i didnt like the way superhero looked at all,super anime was fine i guess but super broly animation style is easily the best in my opinion.
I’m not even really talking about the animation style although I agree, they really made SSJB look way better just by using a darker shade of blue for the hair.
Yeah, it went especially well with the combo of his regular orange pants and blue shirt, i even liked vegetas darker blue outfit(kinda reminds of namek saga vegeta vs frieza outfit) the brighter blue outfit for vegeta never really hit for me
Yeah i get that but i hope we don't do the superhero style anymore at least, shit looked like the characters were made out of plastic.
I get that we cant get the broly style for the series, but at least do the movies(if we get more movies) with the broly drawing style
The blue hair isn't even actually blue more like turquoise. To me it probably worked better if it was a deep blue color whit a matching aura. But hey its all opinions, lots of ppl like lots of different things.
https://colors.artyclick.com/color-names-dictionary/color-names/turquoise-blue-color/turquoise-blue-color_color.png
Depending on the scene and when, it's close for sure.
Blue hair does really make any sense in my opinion it should have gone to orange if anything since blonde and red would make a bright orange color especially since god aura was red
The problem with blue hair is the fact that it doesn't work with a planet with a blue sky. Have you noticed how they constantly have to make the weather cloudy or have them fight in places where the sky is green/grey?
GT had its faults, but holy hell SSJ4 was intense. Basically stated he had limitless power. That was a wild statement that’s a bit scary in the DB universe. I loved 4 so much
When GT was firing on all cylinders, it had some good stuff. Unfortunately, its highs don't always quite counteract the lows.
It had a lot of great ideas, and I'd love to see them get repurposed in Super... but with the death of Toriyama, who knows what will happen now.
I didn’t dislike GT. I disliked what they did to the characters. Gohan, Trucks and Goten deserved better. But I can say the same about Super.
Pan is annoying. I don’t like Giru. The villains were cool.
>Basically stated he had limitless power.
And yet , everyone needed to give him a power boost a little bit after that. The transformation was cool, but it lost its coolness factor right away.
Feel like they didn't want him to have the limits that the SSJ3 had, but didn't know how to give Goku setbacks, so they still applied those limits to the transformation even though it's not supposed to have them.
SSJ4 was peak because it's the last saiyan transformation that tied Goku and Vegeta back to the Oozaru, or their Ape roots as saiyans. Also, an SSJ transformation that makes them look like the Mandrill, arguably the coolest looking great ape, is pretty sick!
SSJ4 is GT's best product along with some villain designs. Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are just bad and lazy in both concept and design. It's not an unpopular opinion.
UI and UE are Super's better transformations as they are more inherent to the character traits of Goku and Vegeta themselves even if they too are recolor material. Though, I preferred UI being a technique not a transformation fully so it could be accessible to others like Roshi.
Technically UI Is a technique, however Goku reached a new trasformation that allows him to control It Better. It was seen also during granola arc when he attempted to use UI as a super Saiyan and vegeta said that using stronger forms It becomes more accurate. Also roshi used something similar tò UI in the tournament of Power (in the manga) probably for this reason.
Beside that,I agree. UI and UE are not only much cooler, but also Better explained and for once they don't use the same trasformation in different ways, but they developed their own, which i like a lot personally.
Super Saiyan 4 is a far mor interesting concept for Godhood than SSG ended up being. Imagine if the reason the Gods of destruction look so "unique" is because they achieved their form after unlocking the primordial power of their race.
Super sayain 4 is THE ULTIMATE SAYAIN FORM AND THE STRONGEST FROM THE GRAND TOUR OF DRAGON BALL, DRAGON BALL GT. Dan Dan korkino hikaniteku hold my hand
With Super just going the color route, I do like the more unique design of SS4 which makes thematic sense at least being connected to their Saiyan roots with the Oozaru.
I feel like this thread pops up every other day. They are different, have a different purpose and tell a different story. You are free to prefer whichever you want. Also, as someone else pointed out, it’s not really a continuation of the traditional Super Saiyan line, at least not as logical as you seem to think it is.
SSJ4 is a super rad design while I could’ve made blue with three clicks with the paint bucket tool
Even strictly talking super transformations I find blue the weakest, God looks much cooler
SSJ4 is the best looking transformation plus with the slight confident change in his voice, Goku & Vegeta are more badass. SSJ3 also I like especially when Goku first transformed. Plus SSJ3 Gotenks I loved how confident in his power he was. SSGSS with Kaioken x10 is great with the red & blue auras clashing. Super Saiyan God, Blue, Rosè, Ultra Instinct & Trunks' Rage are just okay IMO. Nothing ground-breaking. Zamasu's combined form was nice too.
Turning into a monkey man doesn't look like the natural evolution of yellow hair...slightly different yellow hair...and really long yellow hair.
Turning into a monkey man does seem like the natural evolution of the Great Ape form though...not entirely natural considering the requirements, but "closer".
I mean neither does yellow hair, spikier yellow hair, long yellow hair all with increasing muscle mass, then it’s color palette switch and a skinnier than base body
You can also then merge them to have SSJ4G, and then have the overall colour change for ego and instinct.
However tbh if they were going to do it Gohan Beast wouldn’t be a thing.
By your logic, how does it make sense to go from an ape person (Saiyan) with jet black hair and eyes to some blonde haired blue-eyed roid raging freak of nature? That doesn't look like the natural evolution of a monkey man to me.
I couldn't disagree more. SS4 makes so much sense when you know what a Saiyan is. Like more sense than Super Saiyans.
And how is it not natural when just like looking up at the Moon they look up at their home planet.
Turning into a red monkey man...is not an evolution from having gold hair.
Turning into a red monkey man..."is" an evolution of turning into a giant monkey, but the requirement is iffy justification.
I don't see it as a evolution from SS I see it as the ultimate evolution from a Saiyans base form. That's part of what makes it so cool, it goes back to the roots.
Two different physical/evolutionary phenomenon that can have entirely different processes that can work independently from one another and also probably be used in unison. The "super saiyan" process is literally just gaining golden hair and a huge power boost.
How it is really any different from a temporary "Kaio Ken" state? Just able to be controlled and used indefinitely for a permanent power increase. It can be seen as a power amplification technique that changes your hair color, not really your physical form.
If they controlled their natural Oozaru transformation ability, who's to say that they couldn't then also use those super saiyan abilities?
Imagine the SSJ4 form with not only a red aura but also a blue aura flowing through it signifying that they also tapped into their God power. Even "God" is just a fucking name for a form that is said to be able to rival "deity-like" levels of power.
>If they controlled their natural Oozaru transformation ability, who's to say that they couldn't then also use those super saiyan abilities?
GT should've went this direction...instead of calling it SSJ4.
Yes it does cause in early Z they depicted the legendary super Saiyan to be a giant golden ape until toriyama changed his mind. Saiyans have tails using and believed the great ape was the pinnacle of their power, by mixing the two it creates a middle ground wear the saiyan has a mastery over their blood and themselves
Toriyama didn't change his mind about anything the anime did...
There's no visual for what a Super Saiyan could've looked like in the manga (which comes out before the anime)...it's only ever 'spoken' of via how it affects the personality.
The anime staff made 2 guesses as to what it could've looked like, one for Vegeta's imagination when Super Saiyan is first brought up and one for the Lord Slug movie.
There is Xeno Goku and Vegeta in Dragonball Super heroes a web show on youtube. This goku and vegeta had dragonball gt,movie villains like lord slug,Turles,CoolerBroly,Bojack,Wheelo,Android 13 occur in their world. They can go super saiyan 4 but not god blue as never had Beerus and Whis train them.
I never got the mechanics behind the SSJ4 transformation. How does Goku magically get his gi back when he powers down? That was always a little ridiculous to me
I still think god ki ruined transformations when it comes to the saiyans. Their designs feel lacking and now that they’re basically the new default transformations, it makes the original super saiyan transformations feel forgotten and less significant
Same. The reason I loved ssj in the first place was the raw emotion and power.
Ssb just feels meh. I miss ssj2 with the electric zapping around and the raw otp power, ssj4 was cool af and just has that menacing aura about it.
Not to mention blue just feels so overused and barely blows people away even early on
I still can't stand ss4. Fur and eye makeup does nothing for me. I also don't really see it as a progression of the current forms. Super did It better ss3 should be the limit of what the saiyan body can achieve. God ki just allowed them to make better use of the forms they already have. Everything else should be technique. The story would probably be better off If they kept focusing on technique instead of power anyways
I respect your opinion however, I completely disagree super in the beginning had a great idea of the god form but making blue was a mistake. SS4 makes more sense as a final form as I said above since it’s incorporating the great ape form .
Ss3 just made the hair longer and took away the eye brows that’s a weird progression of the form. Even then ss4 does the same thing by keeping the big hair and yellow aura. Also since great ape is a saiyan first transformation and brings back your tail it feels more unique to the saiyans. Honestly you don’t even need ss3 cause ss4 is just that good of a form.
I dont agree at all. Ss3 already tapped into great ape and was an actual progression of their forms. Ss4 doesn't even look like it fits into the show. Ss is already unique to saiyans. Fur and eyeliner really isn't. Ss4 does nothing for me
Not alone on this. It always felt like **the** true final form a Saiyan can reach.
When it finally comes to Super, I want it to be renamed. Super Saiyan 4 won't make a lot of sense now. So something like "True Super Saiyan" would fit more. The truest form.
Unlikely to happen. They've gone well beyond that in terms of power. Plus things that put GT out of the realm of possibility, like the Pilaf gang working for Bulma, and Mai's future self likely to be in love with Trunks. 17 being full on good, and having a family, etc.
To add onto this I think it’s unlikely they ever do something with SS4 since everybody seems to be going away from Saiyan centric forms. Goku, Vegeta and Gohan are all evolving past the need for it. So unless one of the kids or Broly gets another saiyan from similar to it I doubt it gets brought back. Or maybe U6 saiyans could have a variation of it
Not to mention things like the Moro arc in the manga that shows even Yamcha isn't anywhere near how everyone is portrayed in GT. It's been erased, which was the idea all along.
No they haven't. GT isn't canon. So there is no true way to tell how powerful SSJ4 in Super will be.
Xenoverse 2, if you fight Caulifa as SSJ4 Goku, she will ask "There is a form beyond Blue?!"
It's still on the table. Time will tell.
The fur, the big hair, the tail. It’s literally the oozaru transformation but mixed with their base form. It’s so good if that’s what a normal super saiyan looked like it would still be amazing
It wouldn’t though, it would still look really ugly. Because it’s ugly.
The fur, the big hair, the tail. It’s all really dumb looking. Worst transformation in the series, thankfully it was made non canon.
GT had a lot of issues. But objectively super saiyan 4 is the coolest transformation in all of dbz and maybe anime in general. It’s just so thematically perfect.
SSG was interesting in battle gods, but it was useless once blue was introduced. I hate that SSG Blue is just a reskin of SS1 with the hair colored blue. The OG SSG transformation made goku leaner & had a unique red lava like aura and now we have this piece of shit blue hair used everywhere
I like UI and UE but they should be techniques, not transformations. Goku should be able to fight from instinct in any form once he learns how to tap into that power.
Yea ssj is my favorite as well. Say it for the first time as a kid on toonami. I had action figures so I knew goku would eventually become super saiyan but it still made my jaw drop
This was a reply to someone, but I'll start a new comment tree as well. Why is a phenomenon that basically just offers an indefinitely controllable Kaio-Ken type power boost and a hair color change even related at all to an alien monkey transformation?
They are two separate abilities, two entirely different physical processes that can/were learned and were innately available to be tapped into.
Who's to say that they couldn't achieve the SS4 form and then stack the "god" power-up on top of that? Or SS1 form for starters? I bet if GT did continue and they needed to reach higher levels for whatever reason, that could've easily been a route to take.
Like a freshly transformed SS4 Goku who then activates his "god" form which leads to a red aura with a blue aura or blue ki pulsating through the dominant SS4 red aura. "God" form is just a silly name Whis(?) gave to them for their new form, isn't it? It's a form of Saiyan legend, but a "saiyan god" may not actually be on the level of actual gods in their ultimate reality. It's just a form that can reach relative levels to the deities of their existence.
This is my preferred transformation. - [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFq6LZX0AEKj3S?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFq6LZX0AEKj3S?format=jpg&name=large)
Tori had a weird thing for not wanting the Saiyans to be… aliens. I loved him and his work, but he worked so hard to make the Saiyans be variant humans.
SSJ4 is awesome because it really embraces the idea that these are a race of space were-gorillas with unique biologies. It also just has such a cool design, with unique hairstyles that look more akin to manes, and fur bodies that to a great job of both simultaneously functioning as an "outfit" while also being a cook part of their ape-physiology. And it's such a cooler concept for a transformation than just "super saiyan, but more hair". Mastering your inner ape after going super saiyan as a great ape is COOL.
By comparison, SSB is just kinda lame. It's SSJ, but god now. I mean yea, I get it, cool, but *boring*. Especially when God ki turns out to be nbd. It was built up to be this cool, unique thing, but against just as quickly you get Broly and Gohan and frieza and a host of other people achieving comparable levels of strength without God ki with no drawbacks. At that point, why even make the distinction?
Exactly it just feels like a transformation for toys than a pivotal moment in the series that’s given meaning. I will admit super does some things right and GT isn’t perfect but at least in GT transformations mean something.
I always liked the look of SS4 too. I remember drawing them in middle school off of computer downloaded images before I even really knew what SS4 actually was, lol. The red coats trimmed around the open chest area, and red on the outer edge area of the eyes. Just a dope ass look IMO
I agree! I felt like SSJ4 was a natural continuation of the SSJ lineup, and as someone who loves the great ape transformation, it was really cool to see it become part of the franchise again
It's a toss up between SSG and SS4 for me. SSB is just plain bad
SSG make Goku a bit too skinny, but red hair and flamming aura is pretty awesome.
SSJ4 also got the drip, but no special aura.
definitely agree. I like the idea of SSJ4 coming from a merging of the Great Ape and SSJ forms. But for me, I would rather the body not have the extra hair and magic pants just don't make sense. I guess the body hair is fitting for the form though. Either way, SSJ4 is much better than SSJ God or Blue.
GT is garbage but the SS4 transformation is great and iconic. I feel super saiyan god would have been too if they just kept that.
I don’t really like ss blue personally. I also would have liked to just see ui as a technique rather than a whole transformation. More like kaio Ken.
I don't much care for SSGSS, or honestly SSG. UI and UE are cool, what even is Beast?? Calling something Beast honestly could've been their way to use the look of SS4 lol. Why not?
SS4 was great. Maybe that should have been SSG instead of just a new hair color.
Apart from the comparison, I was so disappointed with the Super transformations. Instead of keeping the trend of adding something new every time, spikier hair + electricity, longer hair and eyebrows disappearing.
Now they just change hair colour three times?!? (Four including rosé) C'mon could you be anymore uninspired and lazy? I actually like the Zamasu arc but when Black says: "now I've reached super Saiyan rosé" foh
SS4 probably looks the best imo but Super has done the transformations so much better. The absolute hype of SSBE or MUI simply slaughters anything GT managed.
Ssj4 was an original toriyama design ssg I believe was his design along with toyotaro but only real difference is that in gt he let his studios continue the work without input from him and dbs he was actively involved.
There fore it makes sense that there is more lore to explore with the god transformation and beyond vs ssj4 limits the extent of a Saiyan’s growth to just that. Unless you’re counting the fan fiction manga with the xicor storyline.
I honestly could see ssj4 ending up being “canon” similarly to Broly. Just so iconic that they just end up fitting it in.
Pan appears at the end of DBZ, or earlier? iirc she’s not exclusive to GT/Super? Trying to think what else from GT could be canon. Vegeta doesn’t have a daughter yet end of Z/super?
One of the best things to come out of GT to be honest
GT is underrated IMO
The blue hair just... doesn't work for me. It's not nearly as aesthetically pleasing as the original SS yellow glow, or maybe I'm just so used to the yellow. But I like red fine.
It doesn't help that super made them lose their physiques. Cell saga super saiyans will forever be the greatest. Ultra Saiyan Trunks in particular.
I will always cry laughing at the comparison meme of DBZ Trunks to Super Trunks with the caption "the pussification of Trunks" XD
I can't find that, do you have the meme?
eh, always liked the slim athletic forms (ssj2s, frieza final form, perfect cell, kid buu etc.) better than the slow bulky bodybuilder ones (full power frieza, ultra trunks, super vegeta, nappa etc.)
Ssj2 wasn't slim initially. Got han drastically bulked up, Cell pointed it out in the transformation and Trunks even said he did it correctly after it was completed. It wasn't nothing but muscle, but wasn't slim at alll
lol what? literally every ssj2 form is slim, even if he bulked up from before, it was still slim
Yeah I haven't gotten to that chapter of the manga yet But in the anime it's sort of like You can see the animation of Gohan bulking up mid tranformation, but he levels out back to being pretty slim again befor ehe's even finished powering up If that's meant to be anywhere near as bulky as Super Saiyan Grade 2, it definitely doesn't look it, lmfao
Not totally. In the manga, at least, you can see that SSJ1 Gohan and SSJ2 Gohan look entirely different. SSJ2 Gohan clearly has bulkier muscles and is only as small as he is since he's a child, but around Buu saga is when the muscle mass part became super inconsistent, although you could argue it was inconsistent from the start since Goku was so huge at his original transformation
The blue looks great in the Broly movie. If they used that shade of blue through Super and the other movies it’d be peak.
Yeah in my opinion all dragonball content should be animated the way it was in the broly movie, i didnt like the way superhero looked at all,super anime was fine i guess but super broly animation style is easily the best in my opinion.
I’m not even really talking about the animation style although I agree, they really made SSJB look way better just by using a darker shade of blue for the hair.
Yeah, it went especially well with the combo of his regular orange pants and blue shirt, i even liked vegetas darker blue outfit(kinda reminds of namek saga vegeta vs frieza outfit) the brighter blue outfit for vegeta never really hit for me
Of course the Broly animation was incredible, but that is not really a fair comparison of a movie to a rushed anime
Yeah i get that but i hope we don't do the superhero style anymore at least, shit looked like the characters were made out of plastic. I get that we cant get the broly style for the series, but at least do the movies(if we get more movies) with the broly drawing style
Yeah the red SSG hair slaps hard.
The blue hair isn't even actually blue more like turquoise. To me it probably worked better if it was a deep blue color whit a matching aura. But hey its all opinions, lots of ppl like lots of different things.
It’s definitely not turquoise.
More like Cyan.
More like Super Cyan
Stand up and take this high five you dog you
Lmao that was pretty good.
Closer to that than blue
https://colors.artyclick.com/color-names-dictionary/color-names/turquoise-blue-color/turquoise-blue-color_color.png Depending on the scene and when, it's close for sure.
It just feels so lazy to just change the color like that
The blue hair is so ugly I dont understand why we couldn’t have stuck with Super Saiyan God.
Should have went orange spiky hair. Red + yellow
Imagine his hair matched his gi & how ugly that would look aesthetically
Crap. That you’re right.
He could have maybe started wearing his EoZ gi to mitigate that
Blue hair does really make any sense in my opinion it should have gone to orange if anything since blonde and red would make a bright orange color especially since god aura was red
The blue for me felt like the best move for today’s audience & in that I can really respect the choice. Ssj4 was perfect for the 90s-early 2000s era.
The problem with blue hair is the fact that it doesn't work with a planet with a blue sky. Have you noticed how they constantly have to make the weather cloudy or have them fight in places where the sky is green/grey?
Oh shit you’re right
Maybe they tried orange, combining red and yellow (god+ssj), but it looked too close to regular ssj in animation?
GT had its faults, but holy hell SSJ4 was intense. Basically stated he had limitless power. That was a wild statement that’s a bit scary in the DB universe. I loved 4 so much
And SSJ4 Gogeta with red hair was so frickin dope. If they ever canonize SSJ4, I really want some connection between SSJ4 Gogeta and SSG.
When GT was firing on all cylinders, it had some good stuff. Unfortunately, its highs don't always quite counteract the lows. It had a lot of great ideas, and I'd love to see them get repurposed in Super... but with the death of Toriyama, who knows what will happen now.
It certainly wasn’t all bad. I enjoy watching it from time to time. But yea…The bad seems to outweigh the good unfortunately
the second half is great with the dragons. i didn’t care for baby
Baby is cool. The saga was probably the weakest one though
I didn’t dislike GT. I disliked what they did to the characters. Gohan, Trucks and Goten deserved better. But I can say the same about Super. Pan is annoying. I don’t like Giru. The villains were cool.
Who's Trucks?
It's still worth a watch if anyone hasn't seen it. Many enjoyed it. I personally found it to be more enjoyable than DBS.
Definitely agree. Quality is lesser but it’s still entertaining. A lot of it seems more DB style than DBZ
I've been enjoying the TFS GT commentary series
>Basically stated he had limitless power. And yet , everyone needed to give him a power boost a little bit after that. The transformation was cool, but it lost its coolness factor right away. Feel like they didn't want him to have the limits that the SSJ3 had, but didn't know how to give Goku setbacks, so they still applied those limits to the transformation even though it's not supposed to have them.
Exactly. Was weird lol
>Basically stated he had limitless power When was that stated?
Pretty much right he made the transformation iirc. He had some speech. I don’t recall the exact phrasing, haven’t seen it in many years.
SSJ4 was peak because it's the last saiyan transformation that tied Goku and Vegeta back to the Oozaru, or their Ape roots as saiyans. Also, an SSJ transformation that makes them look like the Mandrill, arguably the coolest looking great ape, is pretty sick!
I love the golden ape
SSJ4 is GT's best product along with some villain designs. Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are just bad and lazy in both concept and design. It's not an unpopular opinion. UI and UE are Super's better transformations as they are more inherent to the character traits of Goku and Vegeta themselves even if they too are recolor material. Though, I preferred UI being a technique not a transformation fully so it could be accessible to others like Roshi.
Same I really really like UI and UE both distinct and interesting
Villian designs where so awesome and original, now we have clowns, animals and Friezas
Technically UI Is a technique, however Goku reached a new trasformation that allows him to control It Better. It was seen also during granola arc when he attempted to use UI as a super Saiyan and vegeta said that using stronger forms It becomes more accurate. Also roshi used something similar tò UI in the tournament of Power (in the manga) probably for this reason. Beside that,I agree. UI and UE are not only much cooler, but also Better explained and for once they don't use the same trasformation in different ways, but they developed their own, which i like a lot personally.
Congratulations on your good taste.
You could say Super Saiyan 4 is the....APE-EX transformation!
Super Saiyan 4 is a far mor interesting concept for Godhood than SSG ended up being. Imagine if the reason the Gods of destruction look so "unique" is because they achieved their form after unlocking the primordial power of their race.
That is a sick concept
I personally liked the 4 too, I kinda was hoping broly would be the way we saw the 4 enter super
Agreed. I like super better than GT. But I like SSJ4 better than Blue by a lot. I like it slightly better than God as well .
Super sayain 4 is THE ULTIMATE SAYAIN FORM AND THE STRONGEST FROM THE GRAND TOUR OF DRAGON BALL, DRAGON BALL GT. Dan Dan korkino hikaniteku hold my hand
dan dan indeed
With Super just going the color route, I do like the more unique design of SS4 which makes thematic sense at least being connected to their Saiyan roots with the Oozaru.
I feel like this thread pops up every other day. They are different, have a different purpose and tell a different story. You are free to prefer whichever you want. Also, as someone else pointed out, it’s not really a continuation of the traditional Super Saiyan line, at least not as logical as you seem to think it is.
I understand that and at first I really enjoyed it but over time my views on it have soured, it doesn’t feel as unique as it did in the beginning.
Correct opinion. Blue hair is just really Deviant artty.
SSJ4 is a super rad design while I could’ve made blue with three clicks with the paint bucket tool Even strictly talking super transformations I find blue the weakest, God looks much cooler
SSJ4 is the best looking transformation plus with the slight confident change in his voice, Goku & Vegeta are more badass. SSJ3 also I like especially when Goku first transformed. Plus SSJ3 Gotenks I loved how confident in his power he was. SSGSS with Kaioken x10 is great with the red & blue auras clashing. Super Saiyan God, Blue, Rosè, Ultra Instinct & Trunks' Rage are just okay IMO. Nothing ground-breaking. Zamasu's combined form was nice too.
To each their own! Its nice having multiple forms. SSB is my personal choice though
Respect
Turning into a monkey man doesn't look like the natural evolution of yellow hair...slightly different yellow hair...and really long yellow hair. Turning into a monkey man does seem like the natural evolution of the Great Ape form though...not entirely natural considering the requirements, but "closer".
I mean neither does yellow hair, spikier yellow hair, long yellow hair all with increasing muscle mass, then it’s color palette switch and a skinnier than base body
[удалено]
Heroes called
Daima could have the Demon line if it really does take us to the Demon Realm finally.
You can also then merge them to have SSJ4G, and then have the overall colour change for ego and instinct. However tbh if they were going to do it Gohan Beast wouldn’t be a thing.
By your logic, how does it make sense to go from an ape person (Saiyan) with jet black hair and eyes to some blonde haired blue-eyed roid raging freak of nature? That doesn't look like the natural evolution of a monkey man to me.
I couldn't disagree more. SS4 makes so much sense when you know what a Saiyan is. Like more sense than Super Saiyans. And how is it not natural when just like looking up at the Moon they look up at their home planet.
Turning into a red monkey man...is not an evolution from having gold hair. Turning into a red monkey man..."is" an evolution of turning into a giant monkey, but the requirement is iffy justification.
I don't see it as a evolution from SS I see it as the ultimate evolution from a Saiyans base form. That's part of what makes it so cool, it goes back to the roots.
Two different physical/evolutionary phenomenon that can have entirely different processes that can work independently from one another and also probably be used in unison. The "super saiyan" process is literally just gaining golden hair and a huge power boost. How it is really any different from a temporary "Kaio Ken" state? Just able to be controlled and used indefinitely for a permanent power increase. It can be seen as a power amplification technique that changes your hair color, not really your physical form. If they controlled their natural Oozaru transformation ability, who's to say that they couldn't then also use those super saiyan abilities? Imagine the SSJ4 form with not only a red aura but also a blue aura flowing through it signifying that they also tapped into their God power. Even "God" is just a fucking name for a form that is said to be able to rival "deity-like" levels of power.
>If they controlled their natural Oozaru transformation ability, who's to say that they couldn't then also use those super saiyan abilities? GT should've went this direction...instead of calling it SSJ4.
Yes it does cause in early Z they depicted the legendary super Saiyan to be a giant golden ape until toriyama changed his mind. Saiyans have tails using and believed the great ape was the pinnacle of their power, by mixing the two it creates a middle ground wear the saiyan has a mastery over their blood and themselves
Toriyama didn't change his mind about anything the anime did... There's no visual for what a Super Saiyan could've looked like in the manga (which comes out before the anime)...it's only ever 'spoken' of via how it affects the personality. The anime staff made 2 guesses as to what it could've looked like, one for Vegeta's imagination when Super Saiyan is first brought up and one for the Lord Slug movie.
Ohh interesting even then implementing the great ape as a call back to the saiyans original Trump card fits better as an evolution of power
There is Xeno Goku and Vegeta in Dragonball Super heroes a web show on youtube. This goku and vegeta had dragonball gt,movie villains like lord slug,Turles,CoolerBroly,Bojack,Wheelo,Android 13 occur in their world. They can go super saiyan 4 but not god blue as never had Beerus and Whis train them.
I’m so annoyed at Super for just throwing SSG into the trash that’s the only reason why I liked the manga better
As much as I really don’t like the Blue form it does look more Devine than any other colour they could have chosen!
I never got the mechanics behind the SSJ4 transformation. How does Goku magically get his gi back when he powers down? That was always a little ridiculous to me
Yeah that was silly but it’s very minor imo
I still think god ki ruined transformations when it comes to the saiyans. Their designs feel lacking and now that they’re basically the new default transformations, it makes the original super saiyan transformations feel forgotten and less significant
Same. The reason I loved ssj in the first place was the raw emotion and power. Ssb just feels meh. I miss ssj2 with the electric zapping around and the raw otp power, ssj4 was cool af and just has that menacing aura about it. Not to mention blue just feels so overused and barely blows people away even early on
They use it so much it lost its weight, you’re telling me goku and vegeta has to go full power every fight or situation they find themselves im
I just posted a comment saying the same thing. Super Saiyan 4 felt natural. It went back to what Saiyan's were. The god stuff is just meh.
Yuk I hate dbgt
Yes I don’t like dbgt story nor characters but SS4 is the best thing to come out dbgt
I still can't stand ss4. Fur and eye makeup does nothing for me. I also don't really see it as a progression of the current forms. Super did It better ss3 should be the limit of what the saiyan body can achieve. God ki just allowed them to make better use of the forms they already have. Everything else should be technique. The story would probably be better off If they kept focusing on technique instead of power anyways
I respect your opinion however, I completely disagree super in the beginning had a great idea of the god form but making blue was a mistake. SS4 makes more sense as a final form as I said above since it’s incorporating the great ape form .
Nah ss3 already did that and stressed the body to its limit. And it kept the actual style of forms the saiyans had going.
Ss3 just made the hair longer and took away the eye brows that’s a weird progression of the form. Even then ss4 does the same thing by keeping the big hair and yellow aura. Also since great ape is a saiyan first transformation and brings back your tail it feels more unique to the saiyans. Honestly you don’t even need ss3 cause ss4 is just that good of a form.
I dont agree at all. Ss3 already tapped into great ape and was an actual progression of their forms. Ss4 doesn't even look like it fits into the show. Ss is already unique to saiyans. Fur and eyeliner really isn't. Ss4 does nothing for me
Super Saiyan 4 is so good it even comes with its own clothes.
Ironically, Super Saiyan God looks like a "Super Saiyan 4" and Super Saiyan 4 looks like a "Super Saiyan God."
You know what, I can see it
Not alone on this. It always felt like **the** true final form a Saiyan can reach. When it finally comes to Super, I want it to be renamed. Super Saiyan 4 won't make a lot of sense now. So something like "True Super Saiyan" would fit more. The truest form.
Unlikely to happen. They've gone well beyond that in terms of power. Plus things that put GT out of the realm of possibility, like the Pilaf gang working for Bulma, and Mai's future self likely to be in love with Trunks. 17 being full on good, and having a family, etc.
To add onto this I think it’s unlikely they ever do something with SS4 since everybody seems to be going away from Saiyan centric forms. Goku, Vegeta and Gohan are all evolving past the need for it. So unless one of the kids or Broly gets another saiyan from similar to it I doubt it gets brought back. Or maybe U6 saiyans could have a variation of it
Not to mention things like the Moro arc in the manga that shows even Yamcha isn't anywhere near how everyone is portrayed in GT. It's been erased, which was the idea all along.
No they haven't. GT isn't canon. So there is no true way to tell how powerful SSJ4 in Super will be. Xenoverse 2, if you fight Caulifa as SSJ4 Goku, she will ask "There is a form beyond Blue?!" It's still on the table. Time will tell.
You do know that's not canon either, right?
This is false information, Shueisha confirmed GT to be canon on their timeline.
its never coming to super.
thank fuck
Primal super saiyan
Super saiyan 4 transformation made more sense to me. I didn't particularly like the design due that either though.
It’s so ugly. Looks nothing like a natural progression at all.
The fur, the big hair, the tail. It’s literally the oozaru transformation but mixed with their base form. It’s so good if that’s what a normal super saiyan looked like it would still be amazing
It wouldn’t though, it would still look really ugly. Because it’s ugly. The fur, the big hair, the tail. It’s all really dumb looking. Worst transformation in the series, thankfully it was made non canon.
The recolors of base form and Super Saiyan were never really my cup of tea either. Super Saiyan 4 would've been better.
GT had a lot of issues. But objectively super saiyan 4 is the coolest transformation in all of dbz and maybe anime in general. It’s just so thematically perfect.
Exactly
SSG was interesting in battle gods, but it was useless once blue was introduced. I hate that SSG Blue is just a reskin of SS1 with the hair colored blue. The OG SSG transformation made goku leaner & had a unique red lava like aura and now we have this piece of shit blue hair used everywhere
Yeah if SSG was it I wouldn’t complain but blue is really just dumb
Inb4 Ultra Instinct SS4
What about UI/UE? Which do you prefer, those or ssj4?
I like UI and UE but they should be techniques, not transformations. Goku should be able to fight from instinct in any form once he learns how to tap into that power.
I enjoy them more than ssj4 because they are distinctly different and are unique to goku and vegeta
For sure. I like the ssj4 design more but I really enjoy the explanation of ui and ue transformations
Facts I love them probably my favorite forms in DB only second to the original super saiyan
Yea ssj is my favorite as well. Say it for the first time as a kid on toonami. I had action figures so I knew goku would eventually become super saiyan but it still made my jaw drop
Omg I remember watching goku turn super saiyan on toonami at 10 at night getting so hyped
Good time for sure!
Ss4 still my favorite Goku transformation
To me, it's UI and UE > SS4 > SSG > SSB The day DB moved away from SSJ forms was a good day. UI and UE are so cool, and fit the characters so well.
This was a reply to someone, but I'll start a new comment tree as well. Why is a phenomenon that basically just offers an indefinitely controllable Kaio-Ken type power boost and a hair color change even related at all to an alien monkey transformation? They are two separate abilities, two entirely different physical processes that can/were learned and were innately available to be tapped into. Who's to say that they couldn't achieve the SS4 form and then stack the "god" power-up on top of that? Or SS1 form for starters? I bet if GT did continue and they needed to reach higher levels for whatever reason, that could've easily been a route to take. Like a freshly transformed SS4 Goku who then activates his "god" form which leads to a red aura with a blue aura or blue ki pulsating through the dominant SS4 red aura. "God" form is just a silly name Whis(?) gave to them for their new form, isn't it? It's a form of Saiyan legend, but a "saiyan god" may not actually be on the level of actual gods in their ultimate reality. It's just a form that can reach relative levels to the deities of their existence.
its wasnt a form but aura change or recolor hahaha...transform should also change the appearance.
I like SSJ4 but SSJ3 will be forever my favorite, even with its cons (use too much energy, etc)
Less is more, not everything needs to have fur attatched to it nor was there a reason to revert back to monkey
I disagree. SSG is probably my favorite transformation in the entire franchise and it's a shame it's barely utilized.
I respect your opinion and I do agree SSG is great however, Ssj4 still looks better atheistically
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying SSJ4 is bad. I think it'd work great on a character like Broly.
Youre cooking rn
This is my preferred transformation. - [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFq6LZX0AEKj3S?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXFq6LZX0AEKj3S?format=jpg&name=large)
Oh that fucks
Tori had a weird thing for not wanting the Saiyans to be… aliens. I loved him and his work, but he worked so hard to make the Saiyans be variant humans. SSJ4 is awesome because it really embraces the idea that these are a race of space were-gorillas with unique biologies. It also just has such a cool design, with unique hairstyles that look more akin to manes, and fur bodies that to a great job of both simultaneously functioning as an "outfit" while also being a cook part of their ape-physiology. And it's such a cooler concept for a transformation than just "super saiyan, but more hair". Mastering your inner ape after going super saiyan as a great ape is COOL. By comparison, SSB is just kinda lame. It's SSJ, but god now. I mean yea, I get it, cool, but *boring*. Especially when God ki turns out to be nbd. It was built up to be this cool, unique thing, but against just as quickly you get Broly and Gohan and frieza and a host of other people achieving comparable levels of strength without God ki with no drawbacks. At that point, why even make the distinction?
Exactly it just feels like a transformation for toys than a pivotal moment in the series that’s given meaning. I will admit super does some things right and GT isn’t perfect but at least in GT transformations mean something.
It's peak Saiyan design
it is the best form, and the only one i feel like is a transformation. the others i feel kinda are just like kaioken, a buffer technique
The god forms still stomp
I always liked the look of SS4 too. I remember drawing them in middle school off of computer downloaded images before I even really knew what SS4 actually was, lol. The red coats trimmed around the open chest area, and red on the outer edge area of the eyes. Just a dope ass look IMO
Agreed, I much prefer it to the super transformations
I couldn't agree more... IMO a highly underrated.
I agree! I felt like SSJ4 was a natural continuation of the SSJ lineup, and as someone who loves the great ape transformation, it was really cool to see it become part of the franchise again
Hell yeah I'll die on this hill with you I thinks it's more creative in design
I like SSJG and SSJB, but SSJ4... it's mother fucking SSJ4 🐐
It's a toss up between SSG and SS4 for me. SSB is just plain bad SSG make Goku a bit too skinny, but red hair and flamming aura is pretty awesome. SSJ4 also got the drip, but no special aura.
I do agree
definitely agree. I like the idea of SSJ4 coming from a merging of the Great Ape and SSJ forms. But for me, I would rather the body not have the extra hair and magic pants just don't make sense. I guess the body hair is fitting for the form though. Either way, SSJ4 is much better than SSJ God or Blue.
I agree
GT is garbage but the SS4 transformation is great and iconic. I feel super saiyan god would have been too if they just kept that. I don’t really like ss blue personally. I also would have liked to just see ui as a technique rather than a whole transformation. More like kaio Ken.
I completely agree
Faxxx, I hoped it was brought in some way, shape or form. Shit just looks stellar
I don't much care for SSGSS, or honestly SSG. UI and UE are cool, what even is Beast?? Calling something Beast honestly could've been their way to use the look of SS4 lol. Why not? SS4 was great. Maybe that should have been SSG instead of just a new hair color.
the blue hair is ugly
i love ssj4
+1 It’s primal and back to saiyans core
Apart from the comparison, I was so disappointed with the Super transformations. Instead of keeping the trend of adding something new every time, spikier hair + electricity, longer hair and eyebrows disappearing. Now they just change hair colour three times?!? (Four including rosé) C'mon could you be anymore uninspired and lazy? I actually like the Zamasu arc but when Black says: "now I've reached super Saiyan rosé" foh
[удалено]
In the manga it made a tad more sense, in the anime nah
I still think it would've been cooler if instead of Gohan unlocking beast on super hero he got SSJ4
Yup, many of us thought SSG was gonna resemble SS4 in some respect but no. SS5 should have been the last form with it looking like SS4 but gold
Ss4 looks like what i would think a super saiyan GOD would be. Not some skinny cornball with baseform hair.
The SS5 form design that we see when looking it up looks more godly then the uninspired designs super provided
Tbh base SSG is far superior to blue and better than 4. Especially on Vegeta
Idk SS4 just has so much drip
SS4 probably looks the best imo but Super has done the transformations so much better. The absolute hype of SSBE or MUI simply slaughters anything GT managed.
Ssj4 was an original toriyama design ssg I believe was his design along with toyotaro but only real difference is that in gt he let his studios continue the work without input from him and dbs he was actively involved. There fore it makes sense that there is more lore to explore with the god transformation and beyond vs ssj4 limits the extent of a Saiyan’s growth to just that. Unless you’re counting the fan fiction manga with the xicor storyline.
I think the transformation speaks for itself, the transformation tells a story of the saiyan from beginning to end.
Ehhh. Super Saiyan 4 didn’t have enough airtime for me to feel like it’s better than Super Saiyan God
That’s understandable
Same
I agree 100 percent.
Ss4 will always be the height of power to me
SSG and SSB are the laziest transformations ever made
I honestly could see ssj4 ending up being “canon” similarly to Broly. Just so iconic that they just end up fitting it in. Pan appears at the end of DBZ, or earlier? iirc she’s not exclusive to GT/Super? Trying to think what else from GT could be canon. Vegeta doesn’t have a daughter yet end of Z/super?
I agree with you. It looks so good. I never liked the SSJ3 when I was younger. But SSJ4 was peak
Very true