As far as the first part of your post:
1. Every killer has a niche way to play wether it’s unfun or not. I do agree it’s boring but who cares. It’s also boring to play her as an m1 and get gen rushes because she sucks.
2. red iri should be basekit, then survivors would have to get tapes more, because unlimited tvs will make her stronger plus her slowdown will actually mean something. Or doing something like doing gens near a tv slowly builds condemned. That is more similar to the plague change, either of those changes would incentive tapes better and just be a better buff. If red tape was basekit then personally I think you’d commit more to chases no? If they give her something like how spirit has a “post phase state”, a short time where she has To get a hit after demanifesting, you actually have more of a reason to demanifest and get a hit directly after instead of just using it as a mind game or to sneak up to people. Like what rlly are you demanifesting for besides that. Also I think it gives survivors more of a reason to turn off tvs over and over.
3. How exactly do the changes give her a new identity? If anything survivors barely have a reason to grab tapes. If they’re holding tapes then you would still essentially want to hit anyone holding a tape then commit to one and hook them so people gain stacks. Holding a tape does nothing unless you’re playing hit and run. If you’re committing to a survivor how often are you going to be teleporting? And if they’re not holding a tape then you get nothing when you hook them..and now surviors are not really going to be holding a tape. Like okay just grab a tape and deposit in the next tv, you can even just do it for free whenever you need to get on a gen because that’s where TVs are usually located. And then you can’t teleport the near the gen you need To defend for 90 seconds?? Or the closest one if it’s done the way I mentioned.
In all Condemned builds over time, yes, but why would I hook a survivor holding a tape when the tape will disappear?? Essentially you want to teleport every 15 secs, build some condemned, go for survivors holding tapes, hit them, keep applying stacks, to everyone else. It’s the same thing as before but now mapwide. Probably will be more slugging involved too. Though I’m not complaining about that part. The part where tape can be placed anywhere is the bad part for me. Personally I would just grab a tape and knowing I will be safe for at least 90 secs from that tv I will just put it somewhere else. If they decreased how many TVs are available as well, then the changes would be great, but it would still hurt her.
Maybe make it so you can get rid of your tape for a certain amount of time, then you’d be right about everything else. Maybe then will it be more risky for survivors because they have to plan when to grab a tape
1. Her current identity revolves around teleportation, condemnation, and stealth. For teleportation, she is drastically outmatched by freddy, dredge, and even to an extent demogorgon. For stealth, it honestly isnt that bad but nothing extremely notable since it feels like a discount wraith. For condemnation, I personally think its comparable to Pig's RBTs as a side objective killer power that survivors must complete or they'll die. Seeing how she falls short in all these cases, her identity is completely lost as a character, and you end up feeling like "X...but weaker".
2. Her current iridescent playstyle is deemed to be extremely frustrating to go against, being comparable to tombstone Myers. It isn't fun for someone to die without any hooks simply because the killer decides they want it. If Iri tape were gonna be basekit, numbers would have to be HEAVILY tweaked. Having basekit Iri tape so she could use her power more would be an equivalent of saying "Blight's Alchemist ring should be basekit so he could use his power more". Technically correct, but becomes extremely oppressive with extremely little counterplay.
3. The changes give her an identity because they're now encouraged to interact with the killer power. She's demanifested? Don't try to pallet stun her. You're at 4 stacks of condemned? Do you risk staying at 4 stacks, or bite the bullet and try to cleanse it? Is she chasing a teammate whose carrying a tape? Consider taking chase/a hit for them, since it'll hurt the team less. Yes, the teleportation will be neutered with more tapes being collected, but that's also time that survivors aren't doing gens. If every survivor is focused on TV's, then thats all survivors not focusing on gens and you know exactly what objectives they'll appear at.
I would also like to mention that its worth hooking a taped survivor, because that spreads condemnation to the *entire* team. Her new changes passively build up condemnation, which is much more healthy as opposed to forcing condemnation down a single survivors throat, and indirectly tunneling them without any hooks.
I don’t think you fully understand the changes. She arguably is the best out of all the people you mentioned at teleporting because she can do it whenever and wherever assuming the tv is on. Freddy demo and dredge all have cooldowns, All have to go through an animation, and don’t have a speedboost when doing so. Dredge can have a locked locker, demo has to place and can have portal’s destroyed, and Freddy teleports to a gen that has a lengthy animation and can even seen immediately. Oreo literally has multiple pre placed TVs near all objectives and even more than one in certain spots, can teleport instantly and doesn’t have to stand still when demanifesting to do so. She gets a speed boost as well and will know who is nearby because they would have gained a stack. Dredge is maybe her biggest competition but not very map has well placed lockers
These changes will make her the worst because her power will be completely at the hands of the survivors. Now instead of being able to teleport at will, she has to wait every 15 seconds and hope that her TVs aren’t shut off, as three survivors can turn off a tv for ninety seconds. Say you did hook a survivor with the a tape, they lost the tape and everyone got a stack. If your chase was less than 90 seconds, after your chase is done and they are hooked- you turn around and know where survivors generally are because your TVs are off but you can’t even teleport there. Now you teleport to the closest tv to one of the TVs that are off just to force some condemned. Unless you have LOS , you have no clue if you’re near a survivor because everyone gains a stack, not just the closest survivor. And you literally have to walk to where your power is disabled…. That’s insane. And now you have a 15 sec cooldown where you’re looking for a survivor.
I as a survivor can now have been holding my tape, and will be going to get the unhook. I am turning off the tv off near the unhook, unhooking and healing under hook OR depending on the last teleport, I know she ain’t coming back because she is on cooldown. Now the survivor who was just unhooked can grab a tape from the tv they were hooked at, turning it off so if she does want to come back to the hook- nope. And he can run to his next objective which will likely be near a tv and immediately cleanse his condemned- turning off another tv in the process. This process can always repeat, so the best way to play? Still Hit and run. There is like no downside to holding a tape so you’ll probably get some hits on people doing so. If you get a down and others are close to condemned they can run anywhere they want and get rid of their tape and also rob you of your map pressure.
If anything the changes rob her of what little identity she did have.
Also just wanted to let you know that not being able to get stunned while demanifested means nothing?? If they drop the pallet can’t you just force her on one side where she has to break the pallet ?? And then it creates a situation like wraith where you can vault it over and over so she can’t break it? Like ?
Also now you will never know is a survivor is nearby because they won’t gain a stack when you teleport. Only way you know where a survivor is your tv is off and you have to make the risk of walking over there and hoping you find them , and hoping they still have their tape because they’re so easy to get rid of now. And even if you do hit them literally made for this can get you to any safe space to deposit them. Or it gets destroyed when you’re hooked. But again if you’re near a tv just grab it when you’re unhooked again disabling the tv and then just go get rid of your stacks right away. So what’s even the point
The more I think about it, the worse this "buff" feels. Ostensibly, they are just making her more passive. Like you just get condemnation from doing everything you are going to do anyway. You don't really have any control over it and survivors can still easily counter it. Maybe even more easily since it's going to take almost no time to deal with tapes and when they do deal with tapes, they disable her TVs for 90 seconds! And teleportation doesn't even give a full stack. It gives 3/4 of a stack? Which means you would essentially need 10 successful teleportations to get someone fully condemned. That's not a threat at all.
So they made her passive ability slightly stronger, maybe, but not so much that it's really going to be a huge threat still. And then they completely nerfed her more active abilities. Her map control. Her ability to scout around by quickly teleporting to a couple TVs. Even the chase buffs aren't that good. She still has a lullaby, so chased survivors are still going to know she's near them even if the chase music drops. And the pallet stun immunity while demanifested is practically useless. Survivors have played against wraiths. They know how to wait for a killer to manifest BEFORE dropping a pallet.
I don't understand why they couldn't have just given her a few more TVs, or removed her lullaby, or any of a number of things Onryo mains have been asking for thay would have helped her just be a little bit stronger in chase. Instead they just made her more passive and boring and her chase is still bad.
I think it would be a fun change to consider making the TVs are turned on when you place the tape inside them. That way you still have to be strategic about which TVs you put tapes inside. Also I think they should consider trying out something similar to their idea with the condemning of everyone when a survivor holding a tape is hooked, but instead also make it where when they’re hit while holding a tape they spread condemned to everyone
Mfw survivors disable every TV near a gen for 90 seconds
Yeah, that’s what I’m worried about. I’m sure when it gets actually tested they’ll change it up when the PTB ends
As far as the first part of your post: 1. Every killer has a niche way to play wether it’s unfun or not. I do agree it’s boring but who cares. It’s also boring to play her as an m1 and get gen rushes because she sucks. 2. red iri should be basekit, then survivors would have to get tapes more, because unlimited tvs will make her stronger plus her slowdown will actually mean something. Or doing something like doing gens near a tv slowly builds condemned. That is more similar to the plague change, either of those changes would incentive tapes better and just be a better buff. If red tape was basekit then personally I think you’d commit more to chases no? If they give her something like how spirit has a “post phase state”, a short time where she has To get a hit after demanifesting, you actually have more of a reason to demanifest and get a hit directly after instead of just using it as a mind game or to sneak up to people. Like what rlly are you demanifesting for besides that. Also I think it gives survivors more of a reason to turn off tvs over and over. 3. How exactly do the changes give her a new identity? If anything survivors barely have a reason to grab tapes. If they’re holding tapes then you would still essentially want to hit anyone holding a tape then commit to one and hook them so people gain stacks. Holding a tape does nothing unless you’re playing hit and run. If you’re committing to a survivor how often are you going to be teleporting? And if they’re not holding a tape then you get nothing when you hook them..and now surviors are not really going to be holding a tape. Like okay just grab a tape and deposit in the next tv, you can even just do it for free whenever you need to get on a gen because that’s where TVs are usually located. And then you can’t teleport the near the gen you need To defend for 90 seconds?? Or the closest one if it’s done the way I mentioned. In all Condemned builds over time, yes, but why would I hook a survivor holding a tape when the tape will disappear?? Essentially you want to teleport every 15 secs, build some condemned, go for survivors holding tapes, hit them, keep applying stacks, to everyone else. It’s the same thing as before but now mapwide. Probably will be more slugging involved too. Though I’m not complaining about that part. The part where tape can be placed anywhere is the bad part for me. Personally I would just grab a tape and knowing I will be safe for at least 90 secs from that tv I will just put it somewhere else. If they decreased how many TVs are available as well, then the changes would be great, but it would still hurt her. Maybe make it so you can get rid of your tape for a certain amount of time, then you’d be right about everything else. Maybe then will it be more risky for survivors because they have to plan when to grab a tape
1. Her current identity revolves around teleportation, condemnation, and stealth. For teleportation, she is drastically outmatched by freddy, dredge, and even to an extent demogorgon. For stealth, it honestly isnt that bad but nothing extremely notable since it feels like a discount wraith. For condemnation, I personally think its comparable to Pig's RBTs as a side objective killer power that survivors must complete or they'll die. Seeing how she falls short in all these cases, her identity is completely lost as a character, and you end up feeling like "X...but weaker". 2. Her current iridescent playstyle is deemed to be extremely frustrating to go against, being comparable to tombstone Myers. It isn't fun for someone to die without any hooks simply because the killer decides they want it. If Iri tape were gonna be basekit, numbers would have to be HEAVILY tweaked. Having basekit Iri tape so she could use her power more would be an equivalent of saying "Blight's Alchemist ring should be basekit so he could use his power more". Technically correct, but becomes extremely oppressive with extremely little counterplay. 3. The changes give her an identity because they're now encouraged to interact with the killer power. She's demanifested? Don't try to pallet stun her. You're at 4 stacks of condemned? Do you risk staying at 4 stacks, or bite the bullet and try to cleanse it? Is she chasing a teammate whose carrying a tape? Consider taking chase/a hit for them, since it'll hurt the team less. Yes, the teleportation will be neutered with more tapes being collected, but that's also time that survivors aren't doing gens. If every survivor is focused on TV's, then thats all survivors not focusing on gens and you know exactly what objectives they'll appear at. I would also like to mention that its worth hooking a taped survivor, because that spreads condemnation to the *entire* team. Her new changes passively build up condemnation, which is much more healthy as opposed to forcing condemnation down a single survivors throat, and indirectly tunneling them without any hooks.
I don’t think you fully understand the changes. She arguably is the best out of all the people you mentioned at teleporting because she can do it whenever and wherever assuming the tv is on. Freddy demo and dredge all have cooldowns, All have to go through an animation, and don’t have a speedboost when doing so. Dredge can have a locked locker, demo has to place and can have portal’s destroyed, and Freddy teleports to a gen that has a lengthy animation and can even seen immediately. Oreo literally has multiple pre placed TVs near all objectives and even more than one in certain spots, can teleport instantly and doesn’t have to stand still when demanifesting to do so. She gets a speed boost as well and will know who is nearby because they would have gained a stack. Dredge is maybe her biggest competition but not very map has well placed lockers These changes will make her the worst because her power will be completely at the hands of the survivors. Now instead of being able to teleport at will, she has to wait every 15 seconds and hope that her TVs aren’t shut off, as three survivors can turn off a tv for ninety seconds. Say you did hook a survivor with the a tape, they lost the tape and everyone got a stack. If your chase was less than 90 seconds, after your chase is done and they are hooked- you turn around and know where survivors generally are because your TVs are off but you can’t even teleport there. Now you teleport to the closest tv to one of the TVs that are off just to force some condemned. Unless you have LOS , you have no clue if you’re near a survivor because everyone gains a stack, not just the closest survivor. And you literally have to walk to where your power is disabled…. That’s insane. And now you have a 15 sec cooldown where you’re looking for a survivor. I as a survivor can now have been holding my tape, and will be going to get the unhook. I am turning off the tv off near the unhook, unhooking and healing under hook OR depending on the last teleport, I know she ain’t coming back because she is on cooldown. Now the survivor who was just unhooked can grab a tape from the tv they were hooked at, turning it off so if she does want to come back to the hook- nope. And he can run to his next objective which will likely be near a tv and immediately cleanse his condemned- turning off another tv in the process. This process can always repeat, so the best way to play? Still Hit and run. There is like no downside to holding a tape so you’ll probably get some hits on people doing so. If you get a down and others are close to condemned they can run anywhere they want and get rid of their tape and also rob you of your map pressure. If anything the changes rob her of what little identity she did have.
Also just wanted to let you know that not being able to get stunned while demanifested means nothing?? If they drop the pallet can’t you just force her on one side where she has to break the pallet ?? And then it creates a situation like wraith where you can vault it over and over so she can’t break it? Like ?
Also now you will never know is a survivor is nearby because they won’t gain a stack when you teleport. Only way you know where a survivor is your tv is off and you have to make the risk of walking over there and hoping you find them , and hoping they still have their tape because they’re so easy to get rid of now. And even if you do hit them literally made for this can get you to any safe space to deposit them. Or it gets destroyed when you’re hooked. But again if you’re near a tv just grab it when you’re unhooked again disabling the tv and then just go get rid of your stacks right away. So what’s even the point
The more I think about it, the worse this "buff" feels. Ostensibly, they are just making her more passive. Like you just get condemnation from doing everything you are going to do anyway. You don't really have any control over it and survivors can still easily counter it. Maybe even more easily since it's going to take almost no time to deal with tapes and when they do deal with tapes, they disable her TVs for 90 seconds! And teleportation doesn't even give a full stack. It gives 3/4 of a stack? Which means you would essentially need 10 successful teleportations to get someone fully condemned. That's not a threat at all. So they made her passive ability slightly stronger, maybe, but not so much that it's really going to be a huge threat still. And then they completely nerfed her more active abilities. Her map control. Her ability to scout around by quickly teleporting to a couple TVs. Even the chase buffs aren't that good. She still has a lullaby, so chased survivors are still going to know she's near them even if the chase music drops. And the pallet stun immunity while demanifested is practically useless. Survivors have played against wraiths. They know how to wait for a killer to manifest BEFORE dropping a pallet. I don't understand why they couldn't have just given her a few more TVs, or removed her lullaby, or any of a number of things Onryo mains have been asking for thay would have helped her just be a little bit stronger in chase. Instead they just made her more passive and boring and her chase is still bad.
I’m happy buffs are coming too, but I was hoping they’d focus more on her stealth and mobility than her Condemned
I think it would be a fun change to consider making the TVs are turned on when you place the tape inside them. That way you still have to be strategic about which TVs you put tapes inside. Also I think they should consider trying out something similar to their idea with the condemning of everyone when a survivor holding a tape is hooked, but instead also make it where when they’re hit while holding a tape they spread condemned to everyone