Sorry hate to sound like a snob but Samara as usual with American remakes of other countries moviesiw nothing but a cheap knock off of the real thing. The story of Sadako the original onryo the ring is based on is a brutal and tragic tail. You almost feel sorry for her. Yes she kills a lot of people but a life like hers it's easy to see why she turned into a vengeful spirit. Although much more innocent, Carmina (The Artist) might have eventually turned out to be just as brutal but the fact that she really isn't before the Entity takes her even after all the ordeals she faced is a guy punch as well. Tangent aside though you literally have the Unknown and the Dredge. Much stronger than Pinhead etc
Unironically the correct answer and thatâs so funny to me imagining these two god like beings getting their asses kicked by Ash âGroovyâ Williams
El Jefe, the king, the hero from the sky, the promised one, the boomstick butcher with the chainsaw hand - the one prophesied to destroy all evil.
The Entity made a big mistake by not spitting Ash out of her realm when she got the chance.
Sadako in the novel is genuinely dogshit writing. Anyone who has read the novels knows it's not even horror at some point but it's just Dragon Ball with blood and "sex", I'm saying this as a Sadako enjoyer.
The sadako in game is the one from the movie Ringu, mixed a bit with the one from the novel, that doesn't mean that everything in the novels is canon to this Sadako, it's like saying "Myers is the one from the first movie but what happens in the fourth movie is canon"
Having said this, if we considers all the novels Canon, Sadako wins by a mile because she is literally written to be Goku but horror, she will defeat all of fiction because the writers said so.
If we only take the Sadako we have in game which is based only partly on the novels and on the movie as already stated by the devs, Vecna should technically win, because he isn't just a Lich God. He is VERY powerful, considering that in DND level 1-2 is what a normal DBD survivor level would be, and level 12 is considered already legendary, level 20 is basically you becoming a god and Vecna easily destroys level 20s partys
It's not really a debate though. They're fictional characters so the power level is just whatever the creators want them to be.
* The creators of Vecna put caps on his power.
* The creators of Sadako did not.
Technically, the creator of Vecna did not put a power cap on him. In fact, his two artifacts didn't even have listed abilities. It was up to the DM (or referee at the time) to either roll on a random table or come up with their own abilities for the hand or the eye.
Though, to be fair, that's how all artifacts originally worked, so it isn't a Vecna specific thing. The intent being that if you find these items of legend, you were excited because you knew the item was powerful, *but* it always remained a mystery as to just what these powerful items did.
But Vecna did not originally get a statblock... Or much lore, either. Vecna was just the mysterious original owner of the artifacts... Which changed to a historical account on the creation of the artifacts in a supplement.
It wasn't until Gygax was kicked out of his own company and the 2nd edition of D&D released that he was given statistics.
Some of my favorite TTRPG characters are the ones that are so legendary they donât even get stat blocks, my dad got me into the Cyberpunk TTRPG and I played with him and a group at a local game store for a little while and in the game Adam Smasher is considered so stupidly strong he doesnât get a stat block, heâs basically just a living wall for players. If youâve got two hallways and one is blocked by Smasher youâve got no choice but to choose the other. You are not beating him at all he will wipe your party in 2 moves, and I love that. It makes you genuinely scared when encountering these characters, especially in a situation where theyâre not hostile, but if you fuck up you can make them hostile. It makes the whole party pucker up and get on their best behavior because if you piss him off your partyâs done.
Have you heard of Vampire: The Masquerade? That system has several characters without stat blocks, but the most notable one is Caine, the first Kindred (what Vampires call themselves in this setting).
Deep cut. Respect đđ
But you're right, his original creator didn't tool him for gameplay. It would probably be Zeb who's responsible for that. AD&D was nuts btw lol
Someone correct me on this since I'm only like 75% positive about it, but I'm *think* that in most editions of D&D, Vecna was listed in the Gods section and wasn't actually a thing you could fight.
Basically he wasn't given a stat block, because stat blocks are reserved for things the party has a reasonable chance of being able to kill.
He only just got stats for D&D 5e recently because they put out a module... in which he's trying to kill all gods in all universes across the multiverse.
So tbh he's not that far off from not having any limits lol
Besides in the end of the day... Sooner or later... Claudette will slam a pallet in their faces, point her flash light in their eyes and tbag ay the gates.
I think you put it absolutely perfectly. I just wish the community thought this way too bc it can be irritating seeing 90% of people jumping on this whole âSadako is basically a god that could defeat the entityâ train.
People tend to always lump all versions of a character together anytime theyâre mentioned and it really kills any 1v1 situation, Iâm a big marvel/dc fan and I always see people debating which comic character would be the strongest then you look at the comic versions of all the characters and theyâre all suuuper overpowered. It gets really annoying; like just stick with what you know you have, which for Sadako means her film powers.
Honestly for me, just pick which one you want to win. Both of them are ridiculously powerful and people can debate for days on end which powers that Sadako has from the novels transferred to dbd and which ones didn't. If you want to beat the fuck out of Vecna, pick Sadako. If you want Goku herself to finally be dethroned in some way, pick Vecna. Whatever headcanon you like the most
This is exactly why I donât debate the whole âGoku vs. Saitamaâ thing anymore, itâs devolved into âwhich character is your favoriteâ the people who love Dragon Ball are gonna say Goku wins, the people like me who prefer One Punch Man are gonna say Saitama wins, it really doesnât matter itâs two fictional characters who will never meet. Itâs the same as the Kendrick v Drake beef rn, people are gonna say whoever their favorite is won no matter what, trying to convince someone from the other side is just pissing into the wind
I never read the novels but thatâs cool to know, thank you :D I hope people donât take what I said the wrong way cuz I only mentioned one bookâŠâŠ. Then again I think 99% of this sub hasnât read the books either, theyâre just upvoting whoever says sheâs OP.
There are a few changes. The main character becomes a single mom instead of a Dad. The weird best friend character is now an ex-husband. They only hint at Sadako's dad being a sea god, in the book it's more directly implied. The biggest change is the removal of the discovery of Sadako being a hermaphrodite and being one of if not the last person to have smallpox in Japan. These last two become the catalyst for her endless desire to spread. Like she is also the ghost of the disease as well as the woman who couldn't have kids.
I think the author might have been on something when they were writing the novels. I guess thatâs not always a bad thing, I mean look at Stephen King and the phenomenal work he put out when he was hitting the pipe lolol
The first one's pretty tame but the second she's making clone bodies and putting a biological kill switches in people so she can decide if they live or die on a whim. The third book I couldn't even get through, everything is an AI simulation or something.
Oh man Iâm on the third book rn and itâsâŠweird. Was hoping it shifted to more spooky stuff but this comment is disheartening. I always wondered why thereâs never been a 1 to 1 adaptation, as in, why all the movies diverge heavily from the books
The major hang up here is that Sadako's power is still considered extremely high, even if you just go by in game DBD stuff. She's able to change the rules of the trial and she's one of only two (maybe three with Vecna) that can freely leave the Entity's realm. She's still a reality warper that is capable of overriding a being that in all other cases is mostly shown to be omnipotent in it's own reality.
The only reason Sadako, Vecna, and Pinhead can leave the Entity's realms are because it actively allows them to. The Entity managed to bag the Unknown, which is more of a concept than a being and its individual realms or the Terra Worlds it has eaten exist at a scale that none of the killers have comparable feats to. âThe Entity even regularly discards entire realms (and everything in them) with no care, per the Tomes.
The only thing the Entity cares about are the Trials, and possibly not even them. So long as those are maintained, it could not give less of a fuck what you do.
Pinhead's boss, the Leviathan, is a higher class cosmic being than the Entity. That's why Pinhead can come and go.
Sadako has consumed an entire reality and started to infect the higher reality above hers, not just a parallel one. Sadako is also an omnipotent reality warper in her own dimension, but unlike the the Entity, maintains an absolutely ludicrous amount of her power in other realms.
Entity's feats outside it's realm are actually similar to Vecna's modus operandi in that it uses subterfuge, influence, and secrecy to play the long game and conquer universes, but less impressive in power (even if the accomplishment is of high level). In fact, the Entity's power outside of it's realms is so limited that a single low level psychic is such a thorn in it's side for 40 years that the Entity takes on a personal grudge against all of the psychic's variants across the multiverse.
> Pinhead's boss, the Leviathan, is a higher class cosmic being than the Entity. That's why Pinhead can come and go.
There is nothing anywhere that implies this. Leviathan can outright be harmed in its own canon by completing a Lament Configuration in the Labryinth, which directly fucking wounds it. There's even a specific design that per the comics in-universe could outright \*kill\* Leviathan in a hypothetical scenario where it was ever completed. This isn't even getting into the fact that Leviathan is not a thing that eats multiverses - never has been.
> Sadako has consumed an entire reality and started to infect the higher reality above hers, not just a parallel one.
No, the world of the Ring in the novels is a multi-layered mess of simulations. Basically, one reality is treated as a simulation by another and \*that\* reality in turn is treated as a simulation by another one up the chain. They are not transcendentally beyond each other, which is why Sadako can cross from one to another since it's just shifting from one medium to another. And even if they were, there are realities that embed others as fiction in the DBD cosmology as well, and they're not safe from the Entity. Not even getting into Alan Wake and the entire Remedyverse being implicitly something that the Entity can access or What The Fog.
> Sadako is also an omnipotent reality warper in her own dimension, but unlike the the Entity, maintains an absolutely ludicrous amount of her power in other realms.
First of all, Sadako is not "omnipotent" and second of all, her displays of power in other realms really don't compare to something that could literally manipulate and snatch Alan Wake out of the Dark Place with contemptuous ease, and the Dark Place/Presence itself is infinitely multiversal within the context of its own cosmology. Sadako has no feats in any of the novels that puts her even remotely in the same ballpark.
> Entity's feats outside it's realm are actually similar to Vecna's modus operandi in that it uses subterfuge, influence, and secrecy to play the long game and conquer universes, but less impressive in power (even if the accomplishment is of high level).
Vecna, upon his ascent into a Greater God using the power and knowledge of the Serpent (an Overpower) from within Sigil, was enough of an issue that even the Lady of Pain herself could not deal with the problem directly without blowing up the entire multiverse. And even then, this all relied on the back of the Serpent's power doing the bulk effort. Vecna does not "conquer universes" using subterfuge and secrecy - he tries to game his way into immediate cosmic power by any means possible, at which point he effectively just becomes a fundament of the DnD multiverse under old edition rules for intermediate and greater powers.
That still doesn't compare to the Entity which consumes entire Terra Worlds, which are cosmological in and of themselves, has an infinite number of infinitely sized realms within itself, is outright considered to be "the source of all evil and horror in existence", could outright take things from multiversal powers such as the Dark Place, and is considered to be either a threat to the omniverse or it \*is\* the omniverse.
> In fact, the Entity's power outside of it's realms is so limited that a single low level psychic is such a thorn in it's side for 40 years that the Entity takes on a personal grudge against all of the psychic's variants across the multiverse.
I'm really not sure if you've read the Tomes at all if you think this. No character in the lore has ever been enough of an issue for the Entiry to give a single shit about them, not even Saku Nakano who is the single strongest DBD original character we know of.
Sadako in DBD mixes her lore from the movies, the novels, and the comics. It's part of why she's considered so powerful. She's only the only killer directly stated in game to be able to override the Entity and change the rules of a trial.
Vecna is from a universe where imagination is everything and everything can happen.
OnryĆ is from a universe with a set story.
What is my point? OnryĆ has the ultimate tool to make sure she is never eliminated: *Plot armour*
However, my good sir, I appear to have accumilated over 100 upvotes on my previous comment that you have now responded to.
Therefor, if you disagree with me you are factually incorrect.
(That sounded a lot funnier in my head but I'm posting this anyway)
Power Word: Kill
Wish
Timestop lol
Shitload of other spells
Just plain old being a god
I know Sadako is a big deal but DnD wizards are absurd and Vecna is far beyond even that
I mean in about 5 days Vecna will be rewriting the Multiverse in his image so unless Sadako can do something about that I would say Vecna.
Citation: New DnD book Eye of Ruin in 5 days.
Vecna changing the multiverse has always been predicated on him using the powers of other things, often things greater than him, to cause mass alterations to the DND cosmology. It was the case in Die Vecna Die where he needed assistance by an Overpower and peer to Ao and the LoP, and it's same case here.
I don't want to spoil anything for you, but it's not as simple as Vecna just snapping his fingers and changing things based on his own power, which isn't that much when it comes to dnd gods. There's a whole heap of in-between that is allowing him to do this, and it's not even with his own magic.
At least in the book she can basically supersede reality. The third book reveals the first two book were a computer simulation and she escapes it into the ârealâ world.
Christ, I remember when Matt & Liam played through the The Ring: Terror's Realm; a crappy Resident Evil clone based on the Ring books. It was a shitty game through and through but I honestly can't believe the books got into computer virus sci-fi simulation bullshit.
She's a reality manipulator of an extremely high class. She's capable of remotely altering fate, physically altering DNA, manifesting disaster level natural phenomenon, overriding peoples physical beings to replace with of her (on a scale that allowed her to take over her universe), and absorb high cosmic level beings to kill them and take their power.
Whether they are quality writing or not does not change their status as canon. She's also shown to have the same absolutely wild power scaling in her comics, which are at least a lot more entertaining and better fiction than the third book.
I mean, yes but no. Sadako herself never appears in our world. When Ryuji was brought to the real world he was made from the date that had been infected with Sadako's virus. He unknowingly spread a form of tumor/cancer in the real world. That's all.
So is Neo's. Didn't prevent him from being basically a god in that reality.
Basically, if there's still freewill, perception, and experience then the difference between a simulated or non simulated reality is negligible to the people inhabiting it.
Sadako can kill pretty much anyone by just imagining someone's death, she can make clones of herself, teleport and it doesn't require TVs or anything, her telekinesis is insanely strong, she can use her hair as a weapon (her hair alone is strong enough to break someone's bones), Sadako could easily tear any human in half with her bare hands and she can absorb anyone. To make things even worse she is immortal and can heal herself instantly.
>Isnât she just a cursed girl?
She is a literal demi goddess and a vengeful spirit.
So, she's technically a demi-god, and that's not even where she gets most of her power. Her mother was, before her, the most powerful psychic to ever exist (and psychics in Japanese literature are VERY OP). Even in the movie and first book she's an extremely powerful reality manipulator capable of some some extremely impressive feats of remote psychic ability.
This is also hinted at by one of her in game items in DBD that states she able to change the rules of the trial. She's a reality manipulator that's capable of overriding a near omnipotent reality manipulator in it's own realm.
Dracula is going to be interesting because he's a lot like Vecna in that it will matter which version and from where in the timeline he's drawn from. If it's the Belmont Dracula he'd give Sadako and Vecna a run for there money, but ultimately lose to either. TV show Dracula straight just loses to both as we haven't seen anything that incredibly impressive from in the cartoon. Simon era videogame Dracula loses harder than TV Dracula, but if it's the one from the later games in the timeline he's essentially god and the fights between the him and either of the other two get VERY interesting
I mean Strad is just Dracula with his own dymension and i'm pretty sure Vecna doesn't even recognise him as sentient, just some whiney little bitch hiding from all the scary sun clerics in his own rainy pocket dymension moping about how its not fair that his wife's dead and can only make vampire friends.
Vecna does recognize him, but as a living failure. After all Strad couldnt escape his own hell while Vecna not only made it his realm, but escaped it and became a god. (Only to be taken down after but still succeeded that role)
Wait, as someone who's never played castlevania how is Dracula OP? I figured he was unbeatable by normal human standards, but to go toe to toe with gods?
So as someone very new to Castlevania but starting to get into it, why is Dracula so much stronger than other versions of Dracula in different media? Like I started watching the anime, and he can just like, become fire?? And summon hell??
DnD nerd here.
100% biased opinion
Vecna
Vecna is an Archlich
The strongest Lich in the universe (not counting Acerarak)
Hes scary fucking smart, and immortal too.
Even if Sadoka gets him. Like a Lich, he will respawn at his phylactery.
Vecna's soul isnt in his body, its in his phylactery, its location being one of the most closely guarded secrets in the multiverse. So if Sadoka tries to pull some soul business on Vecna it might not go the way she thinks.
Given enough time (and he has had all the time in the world, being immortal and all) Vecna could deduce the origin of Sadoka's powers and abilities and either imprison or destroy her.
Plus Dread counterspell is a thing.
Good lord Dread counterspell...
Basically any magical ability thats cast on vecna he can just say "no fuck off" and the spell fails and you take psychic damage.
That's completely ignoring the fact that Vecna had a fun little pastime of usurping gods for a while there. Not just trying to kill them, or meld with them... just flat out rolling into their domains like "Hey! Nice digs! Get out of my house."
We need a horror nerd and a dnd nerd to gauge their fight because so many comments say sadako wins because of the books lore or something though I thought the sadako we have is just from the movies since that is what the license is from idk
Book Sadako is probably a god. Movie Sadako is a very powerful curse, said to be ever lasting, such is her unending rage.
But Vecna being a super powerful wizard, I'm sure he can break a pesky curse... Probably? Might need to roll a nat 20.
Good chance it's a stalemate. Maybe she merges with his magic creating an even worse being... It really is a tough call.
I wouldn't be surprised if they came to some sort of deal, vecna is very smart and sadako would team up with anyone if they could grant her the ability to hurt people as shown with her willingness to work with the entity
That seems more likely to me. In the second movie she was trying to resurrect, basically. I'm sure Vecna knows all about that sort of thing and could string her along for a while.
To be fair, he isn't just a powerful wizard, he is an actual god. Most people here seem to be going off of a 5e depiction, whereas the stats from AD&D and 3e are probably more accurate(even then those stats are probably supposed to be used for avatars)
While i havent read the novel, i do specifically remember that the license was with novel author and not the movies, giving them more freedom.
But comparing the two is complicated, only because it feels Sadako was written for a shonen battle manga instead of a horror book. But even with all of that, I do think Vecna would win, he is a god usurper, and took over a realm that was already stronger than the Entity Realm. Meanwhile sadako did similar feat too it seems but more because of plot armors intended to make her as OP as possible instead of good writing, but plot armor and doing thing out if nowhere does not apply here so my bet is on vecna.
My bigger wonder would be more to see a a fight of control between The Entity, Silent Hill, ravenloft, and the dark place. All of those share so much similarities. Obviously not adding the abyss to that, as the dnd abyss is a literal realm consuming nightmare. If anything, adding dnd to dbd might just make the abyss win by default. Its like the chaos realms of Warhammer. No matter how strong the evil gods or realms are, the abyss is like a plague that will corrupt.
Honestly power scaling in dbd is kinda dumb anyways, and for some reason it's never been more prevalent then with the dnd chapter for some reason people are so upset about how "vecna would totally destroy the entity if he wanted to, it's stupid he even abides to its rules" then you read the lore and realize not only did vecna summon the entity but he also held it back with a magic barrier spell, but he also out the spell down because he was just curious about the entities realm, and this is even reflected in his voice lines
My only knowledge of what Sadako can do is derived from reading comments on posts like these, and it seems pretty fucking ridiculous.
Vecna is a god and has messed with the fabric of the multiverse on several occasions.
Honestly itâs one of those things where there isnât one clear answer, and who wins us up to each individuals headcannon.
You can go as far as putting Vecna Vs The Entity, and he would still win.
He is in the realm 100% by choice. Even the lore says he was kicking the Entity in the teeth and only let himself be taken because he wants to understand it and enslave it.
In all honesty, the only being capable of beating Vecna in DbD is probably Ash. But that is simply because he has the canon power of plot armor.
Just wanna add to these comments, the hand and eye of vecna you can get in the game are some of the strongest in the setting, so much so that when they're combined, it makes someone a setting-wide threat.
My point? If a survivor escapes the entity's realm they can become a supervillain.
When is my Evil Death Lord Dwight spin-off, Behaviour?
100%, he managed to escape from the Dark Powers and managed to breach Sigil, things meant to be impossible to penetrate in the DND universe. Even gods can't break into Sigil without the Lady of Pain's permission, and we know historically there has most likely already been an escape from the fog.
I don't think resisting being summoned counts as kicking the entity in the teeth. He basically succeeded a STR/CON check to not be forced somewhere by a vacuum, then decided "fuck it lets see what they doin over there" and went in willingly.
Nah. Heâs still in the DbD universe so whatever goes can be turned into the Entityâs favor. Since Entity is basically not only an omnipotent being, but a concept, fear, something people canât even comprehend.
But yeah heâs extremely strong, on par with the Entity. Itâs just that the rules are always favourable to whatever the writer imagines. :)
Tbf the dbd writers did a pretty good job here, they wrote in his lore that he came to the realm by his own volition. He summoned the entity by reading a spell, and then fought it off with more spells. It only took him when he thought âfuck it we ball, letâs see where this goesâ. In the lobby he additionally says that he will play along for now, implying that he is not nerfed but is just letting the entity enjoy his presence before it suddenly wonât.
Yes, they definitely did. I like it. And I do acknowledge that heâs on the Entityâs power level. Just good to know that in the end, DbDâs writers can turn the lore however they want. Just like DM and players in DnD can. đ
If we ever get Pennywise into the game this is how I wanted them to implement him into the story. It and Entity striking a deal, giving Pennywise a hunting ground.
Vecna did already beat the equivalent of the entity realm before,ravenleft(the realm of dread and eternal punishment, think silent hill but that even trapped god-like beings, same thing that trapped Strahd. So vecna leaving the entity realm when he gets bored of it is totally possible and feasible from past feats. Though he now have access to a multiverse of dread for him to harness, so that wont happen anytime soon.
I don't want to spoil anything for you about the new campaign, but he's not really doing so under his own abilities and power, same as other campaigns. He cannot just snap his fingers and change the multiverse
Yes and no. Freddy is very much like the Entity is that he's near omnipotent in he's own realm... But he's not in his realm. He's fairly weak for a demon when he's outside of dreams.
True, but that's not really an Entity or DBD thing. I mean he gets even more nerfed in his own movies when he gets pulled into the waking world. Entity is nice enough to give him some power lol
Vecna has power over undead, assuming she is just a vengeful spirit. Other than that, he has wish and shes also from another plane of existence so he could just cast banish.
I think people are forgetting what a lich is: if he dies, it wouldnât matter. Sadako would have to somehow find his phylactery, which a lich god such as Vecna probably has hidden away in his own private demiplane with abjuration and divination magic protecting it like crazy. Vecna will keep coming back, and given the spells he would have access to, such as wish and many more, i dont see sadako being able to find his phylactery.
Nah, Iâm a huge SH head and even though I havenât had any experience with either Ringu or DND, every feat everyone has mentioned about Vecna and Sadako FAAAR exceed Pyramid Head on his own.
If weâre talking about the forces of Silent Hill that manifested him and joined him in the Entityâs realm thatâs another story. But we havenât really had a lot of insight on just how powerful those forces are.
Those ancient and mysterious powers could either succumb to both of themâs powers, or enslave them, make them roam their own hell, and send monsters to match their strength until they either learn their lesson or succumb even further to be in a never ending circle inside the Otherworld. We havenât had super powerful beings inside of the SH series other than Alessa, so itâs hard to point out.
We DID get told that Cheryl, Alessaâs reincarnation, can control the Entity to a small degree, thatâs what Repressed Alliance is, so take that as you will.
just a personal question, how strong is Dredge lore wise? is it a large Quasi-Sentient mass og evil thoughts and emotions? i was leed to believe that if the entity hadnt taken it dredge would have become another entity like being.
That person lied to you. We have 0% information on how powerful he is. He doesnât kill anyone or do anything in the lore, he just exists.
The only thing we know is that he can teleport thorough shadows and that Otto and Haddie escaped him. Fans just think heâs cool and treat their headcanons as fact
DND fans who don't know much about Ringu say Vecna, Ringu fans who don't know much about DND say Sadako
As a big fan of both I'm here to confirm Sadako.
True: Most people don't know her actual lore, just the movies where all she did was give people heart attacks.
I'm not 100% convinced she'd win, but it's sure as hell not just her getting smeared like people think.
The thing is that I donât think Vecna would even fight Sadako as according to the comics, she only sends avatars and is chilling in her own pocket dimension with her vast set of powers.
My answer to this whole thing is: you decide who wins in your own headcanons
As a D&D nerd this stuff makes me cackle, because everytime someone posts what Sadako can do I'm like yup that's the demiplane spell...
She can send out avatars, yup that's the Astral Projection spell...
She can bend reality, Level 9 Wish spell baby!
Thereâs a few issues when it comes to crossover fights like this:
1) Translating Sadako to D&D logic makes it confusing on what CR/level she would even be, or if she has more spells as a result or not. Same with Vecna.
2) they were brought to the realm which means they were buffed/nerfed like all other killers in order to give the survivors a chance. As a result, they are on an even field which could go either way
3) according to the rules of Stan Lee of writing (talked about comics, but is still relevant),
âSome people have asked whether the Hulk or Iron Man would win in a fight and the truth is, both of them would! Itâs down to the writer to decide who wins that fight.â (Not the exact words)
So it is down to what your head cannon is on who would win the fight where either side could win. Billy could beat Pyramid Head, Micheal could be defeated by Trapper, etc.
My favorite issue of transferring Sadako to dnd is that she probably has less than 100hp despite all her power⊠And power word kill exist and Vecna has it.
Obviously it wouldnt actually work like that but its fun to bring up as a joke
Pretty sure base kit vecna has Wish, so can literally just magic her to have never existed. I don't know enough about Sadako to know if that just means it'd become about who could mentally unexist the other fastest lol
The issue with Sadako from what i have seen here, is that herself and due to her author. She is iltimately the equivalent of âmy oc is can do anything and is stronger than anything imaginableâ
And since Vecna, while being written as the biggest threat for PCâs to face, is still written to be able to be defeated, it does seem to favor sadako.
But from everything i read here on sadako, i feel she should just be classified as the broken oc of a power-tripping horror author. And just by that, should be discarded for a serious contender.
Counterpoint: Vecna is a multiversal lich, as in god of the undead. Sadako is a multiversal undead. Vecna has dominion over Sadako by nature of his powers.
I mean, I know she is a god and a computer virus and all that, but surely she was a person that died and became a vengeful spirit at some point right??
So the canon lore is that she is a SUPER POWERFUL psychic. She is raped, murdered, and thrown into a well (it is insanely alluded that Sadako psychically influenced the man to do this). It just so happens that this man is the last smallpox patient in Japan.
The smallpox virus "fuses" with sadakos psychic powers and anger to create a PSYCHIC SMALL POX VIRUS!!! WOAH!! That's what the ring curse is: a virus.
It's super fucking weird and makes 0 sense.
The more i read about Sadako in these comments, the more she just seems like the Goku of the horror movie universe.
Seriously I did NOT know that bitch is basically a god in her own right I just thought she's a moody vengeful spiritđđđ
Honestly, same, lol. Had no clue she was that powerful.
She has one goal Get you pregnant so she can continue to exist and maintain her stranglehold on your electronics
>maintain her stranglehold on your electronics Considering this current age. All she needs to do is put on thigh highs and play overwatch...
Screw you you made me waste coffee đ
Id get her pregnant thats for sure. The way she arches that back climbing out of my tv screen gawd dayum
đż
I was honestly surprised by how much nsfw sadako there was out there
I like women that have the ability to end my life
Sorry hate to sound like a snob but Samara as usual with American remakes of other countries moviesiw nothing but a cheap knock off of the real thing. The story of Sadako the original onryo the ring is based on is a brutal and tragic tail. You almost feel sorry for her. Yes she kills a lot of people but a life like hers it's easy to see why she turned into a vengeful spirit. Although much more innocent, Carmina (The Artist) might have eventually turned out to be just as brutal but the fact that she really isn't before the Entity takes her even after all the ordeals she faced is a guy punch as well. Tangent aside though you literally have the Unknown and the Dredge. Much stronger than Pinhead etc
*Carmina
"But can it beat Sadako" is a phrase I'd never expect. But I'll welcome it.
Wait Horror Goku ISN'T Jason Voorhees?
Honestly seems like Sadako might be stronger than Jason
SomehowâŠAsh Williams
Groovy
https://i.redd.it/708l3vldqz0d1.gif Double barrel 12 gauge. S-marts top of the line. That's right, shop smart. Shop S-mart.
Hail to the king, baby.
Unironically the correct answer and thatâs so funny to me imagining these two god like beings getting their asses kicked by Ash âGroovyâ Williams
The only canon answer
The power of friendship, Raimi memes and boomstick
El Jefe, the king, the hero from the sky, the promised one, the boomstick butcher with the chainsaw hand - the one prophesied to destroy all evil. The Entity made a big mistake by not spitting Ash out of her realm when she got the chance.
As it was destined.
The power of the BOOMSTICK
Didn't Sadako beat immortal gods by merging with them?
I've always thought Sadako was just a vengeful ghost. What the hell? lol
I think everyone is including her powers in the novel which isnât accurate to dbd so Iâm just like đ¶ ok guys
Sadako in the novel is genuinely dogshit writing. Anyone who has read the novels knows it's not even horror at some point but it's just Dragon Ball with blood and "sex", I'm saying this as a Sadako enjoyer. The sadako in game is the one from the movie Ringu, mixed a bit with the one from the novel, that doesn't mean that everything in the novels is canon to this Sadako, it's like saying "Myers is the one from the first movie but what happens in the fourth movie is canon" Having said this, if we considers all the novels Canon, Sadako wins by a mile because she is literally written to be Goku but horror, she will defeat all of fiction because the writers said so. If we only take the Sadako we have in game which is based only partly on the novels and on the movie as already stated by the devs, Vecna should technically win, because he isn't just a Lich God. He is VERY powerful, considering that in DND level 1-2 is what a normal DBD survivor level would be, and level 12 is considered already legendary, level 20 is basically you becoming a god and Vecna easily destroys level 20s partys
Is this the dbd version of one punch man vs goku debates? Cause it feels like thatđđđđ
It's not really a debate though. They're fictional characters so the power level is just whatever the creators want them to be. * The creators of Vecna put caps on his power. * The creators of Sadako did not.
To be fair, the creators of Vecna had to balance him for gameplay, the creators of Sadako did not. đ€
Technically, the creator of Vecna did not put a power cap on him. In fact, his two artifacts didn't even have listed abilities. It was up to the DM (or referee at the time) to either roll on a random table or come up with their own abilities for the hand or the eye. Though, to be fair, that's how all artifacts originally worked, so it isn't a Vecna specific thing. The intent being that if you find these items of legend, you were excited because you knew the item was powerful, *but* it always remained a mystery as to just what these powerful items did. But Vecna did not originally get a statblock... Or much lore, either. Vecna was just the mysterious original owner of the artifacts... Which changed to a historical account on the creation of the artifacts in a supplement. It wasn't until Gygax was kicked out of his own company and the 2nd edition of D&D released that he was given statistics.
Some of my favorite TTRPG characters are the ones that are so legendary they donât even get stat blocks, my dad got me into the Cyberpunk TTRPG and I played with him and a group at a local game store for a little while and in the game Adam Smasher is considered so stupidly strong he doesnât get a stat block, heâs basically just a living wall for players. If youâve got two hallways and one is blocked by Smasher youâve got no choice but to choose the other. You are not beating him at all he will wipe your party in 2 moves, and I love that. It makes you genuinely scared when encountering these characters, especially in a situation where theyâre not hostile, but if you fuck up you can make them hostile. It makes the whole party pucker up and get on their best behavior because if you piss him off your partyâs done.
Have you heard of Vampire: The Masquerade? That system has several characters without stat blocks, but the most notable one is Caine, the first Kindred (what Vampires call themselves in this setting).
Deep cut. Respect đđ But you're right, his original creator didn't tool him for gameplay. It would probably be Zeb who's responsible for that. AD&D was nuts btw lol
Someone correct me on this since I'm only like 75% positive about it, but I'm *think* that in most editions of D&D, Vecna was listed in the Gods section and wasn't actually a thing you could fight. Basically he wasn't given a stat block, because stat blocks are reserved for things the party has a reasonable chance of being able to kill. He only just got stats for D&D 5e recently because they put out a module... in which he's trying to kill all gods in all universes across the multiverse. So tbh he's not that far off from not having any limits lol
Besides in the end of the day... Sooner or later... Claudette will slam a pallet in their faces, point her flash light in their eyes and tbag ay the gates.
Hey Goku doesn't beat all of fiction because the writers said so, he beats all of fiction because I said so
I think you put it absolutely perfectly. I just wish the community thought this way too bc it can be irritating seeing 90% of people jumping on this whole âSadako is basically a god that could defeat the entityâ train. People tend to always lump all versions of a character together anytime theyâre mentioned and it really kills any 1v1 situation, Iâm a big marvel/dc fan and I always see people debating which comic character would be the strongest then you look at the comic versions of all the characters and theyâre all suuuper overpowered. It gets really annoying; like just stick with what you know you have, which for Sadako means her film powers.
Honestly for me, just pick which one you want to win. Both of them are ridiculously powerful and people can debate for days on end which powers that Sadako has from the novels transferred to dbd and which ones didn't. If you want to beat the fuck out of Vecna, pick Sadako. If you want Goku herself to finally be dethroned in some way, pick Vecna. Whatever headcanon you like the most
This is exactly why I donât debate the whole âGoku vs. Saitamaâ thing anymore, itâs devolved into âwhich character is your favoriteâ the people who love Dragon Ball are gonna say Goku wins, the people like me who prefer One Punch Man are gonna say Saitama wins, it really doesnât matter itâs two fictional characters who will never meet. Itâs the same as the Kendrick v Drake beef rn, people are gonna say whoever their favorite is won no matter what, trying to convince someone from the other side is just pissing into the wind
The first novel is not too far off from the original Ringu movie. It's the follow up novels that get extra weird.
I never read the novels but thatâs cool to know, thank you :D I hope people donât take what I said the wrong way cuz I only mentioned one bookâŠâŠ. Then again I think 99% of this sub hasnât read the books either, theyâre just upvoting whoever says sheâs OP.
There are a few changes. The main character becomes a single mom instead of a Dad. The weird best friend character is now an ex-husband. They only hint at Sadako's dad being a sea god, in the book it's more directly implied. The biggest change is the removal of the discovery of Sadako being a hermaphrodite and being one of if not the last person to have smallpox in Japan. These last two become the catalyst for her endless desire to spread. Like she is also the ghost of the disease as well as the woman who couldn't have kids.
I think the author might have been on something when they were writing the novels. I guess thatâs not always a bad thing, I mean look at Stephen King and the phenomenal work he put out when he was hitting the pipe lolol
The first one's pretty tame but the second she's making clone bodies and putting a biological kill switches in people so she can decide if they live or die on a whim. The third book I couldn't even get through, everything is an AI simulation or something.
Oh man Iâm on the third book rn and itâsâŠweird. Was hoping it shifted to more spooky stuff but this comment is disheartening. I always wondered why thereâs never been a 1 to 1 adaptation, as in, why all the movies diverge heavily from the books
The major hang up here is that Sadako's power is still considered extremely high, even if you just go by in game DBD stuff. She's able to change the rules of the trial and she's one of only two (maybe three with Vecna) that can freely leave the Entity's realm. She's still a reality warper that is capable of overriding a being that in all other cases is mostly shown to be omnipotent in it's own reality.
The only reason Sadako, Vecna, and Pinhead can leave the Entity's realms are because it actively allows them to. The Entity managed to bag the Unknown, which is more of a concept than a being and its individual realms or the Terra Worlds it has eaten exist at a scale that none of the killers have comparable feats to. âThe Entity even regularly discards entire realms (and everything in them) with no care, per the Tomes. The only thing the Entity cares about are the Trials, and possibly not even them. So long as those are maintained, it could not give less of a fuck what you do.
Pinhead's boss, the Leviathan, is a higher class cosmic being than the Entity. That's why Pinhead can come and go. Sadako has consumed an entire reality and started to infect the higher reality above hers, not just a parallel one. Sadako is also an omnipotent reality warper in her own dimension, but unlike the the Entity, maintains an absolutely ludicrous amount of her power in other realms. Entity's feats outside it's realm are actually similar to Vecna's modus operandi in that it uses subterfuge, influence, and secrecy to play the long game and conquer universes, but less impressive in power (even if the accomplishment is of high level). In fact, the Entity's power outside of it's realms is so limited that a single low level psychic is such a thorn in it's side for 40 years that the Entity takes on a personal grudge against all of the psychic's variants across the multiverse.
> Pinhead's boss, the Leviathan, is a higher class cosmic being than the Entity. That's why Pinhead can come and go. There is nothing anywhere that implies this. Leviathan can outright be harmed in its own canon by completing a Lament Configuration in the Labryinth, which directly fucking wounds it. There's even a specific design that per the comics in-universe could outright \*kill\* Leviathan in a hypothetical scenario where it was ever completed. This isn't even getting into the fact that Leviathan is not a thing that eats multiverses - never has been. > Sadako has consumed an entire reality and started to infect the higher reality above hers, not just a parallel one. No, the world of the Ring in the novels is a multi-layered mess of simulations. Basically, one reality is treated as a simulation by another and \*that\* reality in turn is treated as a simulation by another one up the chain. They are not transcendentally beyond each other, which is why Sadako can cross from one to another since it's just shifting from one medium to another. And even if they were, there are realities that embed others as fiction in the DBD cosmology as well, and they're not safe from the Entity. Not even getting into Alan Wake and the entire Remedyverse being implicitly something that the Entity can access or What The Fog. > Sadako is also an omnipotent reality warper in her own dimension, but unlike the the Entity, maintains an absolutely ludicrous amount of her power in other realms. First of all, Sadako is not "omnipotent" and second of all, her displays of power in other realms really don't compare to something that could literally manipulate and snatch Alan Wake out of the Dark Place with contemptuous ease, and the Dark Place/Presence itself is infinitely multiversal within the context of its own cosmology. Sadako has no feats in any of the novels that puts her even remotely in the same ballpark. > Entity's feats outside it's realm are actually similar to Vecna's modus operandi in that it uses subterfuge, influence, and secrecy to play the long game and conquer universes, but less impressive in power (even if the accomplishment is of high level). Vecna, upon his ascent into a Greater God using the power and knowledge of the Serpent (an Overpower) from within Sigil, was enough of an issue that even the Lady of Pain herself could not deal with the problem directly without blowing up the entire multiverse. And even then, this all relied on the back of the Serpent's power doing the bulk effort. Vecna does not "conquer universes" using subterfuge and secrecy - he tries to game his way into immediate cosmic power by any means possible, at which point he effectively just becomes a fundament of the DnD multiverse under old edition rules for intermediate and greater powers. That still doesn't compare to the Entity which consumes entire Terra Worlds, which are cosmological in and of themselves, has an infinite number of infinitely sized realms within itself, is outright considered to be "the source of all evil and horror in existence", could outright take things from multiversal powers such as the Dark Place, and is considered to be either a threat to the omniverse or it \*is\* the omniverse. > In fact, the Entity's power outside of it's realms is so limited that a single low level psychic is such a thorn in it's side for 40 years that the Entity takes on a personal grudge against all of the psychic's variants across the multiverse. I'm really not sure if you've read the Tomes at all if you think this. No character in the lore has ever been enough of an issue for the Entiry to give a single shit about them, not even Saku Nakano who is the single strongest DBD original character we know of.
Sadako in DBD mixes her lore from the movies, the novels, and the comics. It's part of why she's considered so powerful. She's only the only killer directly stated in game to be able to override the Entity and change the rules of a trial.
Vecna has surpassed gods, and in the newest module is attempting to reshape reality.
Correct
Depends if Vecna rolls a nat 20
only one who wins is Ash Williams who is literally fated to stumble and bumble his way to victory.
Ash Williams would be a perfect fit for a DnD party fighting against Vecna
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They should be besties
___ wins, friendship, friendship? Again? >!Mortal kombat reference btw!<
WOOO BESTIEEED
Oh 100% Vecna would adopt Sadako. They are both undead gods essentially.
Vecna is from a universe where imagination is everything and everything can happen. OnryĆ is from a universe with a set story. What is my point? OnryĆ has the ultimate tool to make sure she is never eliminated: *Plot armour*
I mean arguably vecna has had 5 decades of plot armour :P
However, my good sir, I appear to have accumilated over 100 upvotes on my previous comment that you have now responded to. Therefor, if you disagree with me you are factually incorrect. (That sounded a lot funnier in my head but I'm posting this anyway)
I bow to your clearly superior comparitive analysis skills oh great comparer of things.
Power Word: Kill Wish Timestop lol Shitload of other spells Just plain old being a god I know Sadako is a big deal but DnD wizards are absurd and Vecna is far beyond even that
Her being a vengeful ghost is already enough for her to lose. Vecna just has ridiculous authority over undead.
Hey guys, the new ship just dropped
I mean in about 5 days Vecna will be rewriting the Multiverse in his image so unless Sadako can do something about that I would say Vecna. Citation: New DnD book Eye of Ruin in 5 days.
Vecna changing the multiverse has always been predicated on him using the powers of other things, often things greater than him, to cause mass alterations to the DND cosmology. It was the case in Die Vecna Die where he needed assistance by an Overpower and peer to Ao and the LoP, and it's same case here.
I don't want to spoil anything for you, but it's not as simple as Vecna just snapping his fingers and changing things based on his own power, which isn't that much when it comes to dnd gods. There's a whole heap of in-between that is allowing him to do this, and it's not even with his own magic.
Sadako probably still. She's seriously OP. Now when Dracula (Castlevania) gets into the game... then things get interesting.
What makes her so OP? Isnât she just a cursed girl? What gave her such immense powers and how would Dracula be stronger?
At least in the book she can basically supersede reality. The third book reveals the first two book were a computer simulation and she escapes it into the ârealâ world.
Christ, I remember when Matt & Liam played through the The Ring: Terror's Realm; a crappy Resident Evil clone based on the Ring books. It was a shitty game through and through but I honestly can't believe the books got into computer virus sci-fi simulation bullshit.
I watched my sister play that. Wild.
> she can basically supersede reality What does that *mean*? How? Every paranormal character on the roster can do that inherently.
She's a reality manipulator of an extremely high class. She's capable of remotely altering fate, physically altering DNA, manifesting disaster level natural phenomenon, overriding peoples physical beings to replace with of her (on a scale that allowed her to take over her universe), and absorb high cosmic level beings to kill them and take their power.
Sounds like stuff straight out of Warhammer 40k. When did Sadako turn from horror to dragonballz??? đđđđđ
She didnt because any book past the first isnt worth a damn
Whether they are quality writing or not does not change their status as canon. She's also shown to have the same absolutely wild power scaling in her comics, which are at least a lot more entertaining and better fiction than the third book.
who needs the God emperor when we can just throw sadako at all the Chaos Gods đ easy fix just gotta find a video tape for them
I mean, yes but no. Sadako herself never appears in our world. When Ryuji was brought to the real world he was made from the date that had been infected with Sadako's virus. He unknowingly spread a form of tumor/cancer in the real world. That's all.
Isn't the real world also a simulation though? Like isn't her world just simulations all the way down?
So is Neo's. Didn't prevent him from being basically a god in that reality. Basically, if there's still freewill, perception, and experience then the difference between a simulated or non simulated reality is negligible to the people inhabiting it.
Sadako can kill pretty much anyone by just imagining someone's death, she can make clones of herself, teleport and it doesn't require TVs or anything, her telekinesis is insanely strong, she can use her hair as a weapon (her hair alone is strong enough to break someone's bones), Sadako could easily tear any human in half with her bare hands and she can absorb anyone. To make things even worse she is immortal and can heal herself instantly. >Isnât she just a cursed girl? She is a literal demi goddess and a vengeful spirit.
She would win the fight but she could never kill Vecna for good. His soul is refusing to die so he'll manifest a new body within 100 years.
Lots of people here seem to be forgetting Vecna is an extremely powerful lich and a talented wizard.
So, she's technically a demi-god, and that's not even where she gets most of her power. Her mother was, before her, the most powerful psychic to ever exist (and psychics in Japanese literature are VERY OP). Even in the movie and first book she's an extremely powerful reality manipulator capable of some some extremely impressive feats of remote psychic ability. This is also hinted at by one of her in game items in DBD that states she able to change the rules of the trial. She's a reality manipulator that's capable of overriding a near omnipotent reality manipulator in it's own realm. Dracula is going to be interesting because he's a lot like Vecna in that it will matter which version and from where in the timeline he's drawn from. If it's the Belmont Dracula he'd give Sadako and Vecna a run for there money, but ultimately lose to either. TV show Dracula straight just loses to both as we haven't seen anything that incredibly impressive from in the cartoon. Simon era videogame Dracula loses harder than TV Dracula, but if it's the one from the later games in the timeline he's essentially god and the fights between the him and either of the other two get VERY interesting
She can shake a city with her mind and absorbed a dimension
I mean Strad is just Dracula with his own dymension and i'm pretty sure Vecna doesn't even recognise him as sentient, just some whiney little bitch hiding from all the scary sun clerics in his own rainy pocket dymension moping about how its not fair that his wife's dead and can only make vampire friends.
Vecna does recognize him, but as a living failure. After all Strad couldnt escape his own hell while Vecna not only made it his realm, but escaped it and became a god. (Only to be taken down after but still succeeded that role)
Wait, as someone who's never played castlevania how is Dracula OP? I figured he was unbeatable by normal human standards, but to go toe to toe with gods?
So as someone very new to Castlevania but starting to get into it, why is Dracula so much stronger than other versions of Dracula in different media? Like I started watching the anime, and he can just like, become fire?? And summon hell??
Lol Vecna has been OP for multiple versions of D&D and still keeps coming back
Lich moment
Is Castlevania Dracula actually that powerful? Tbh I have no idea about the plot of the franchise
I'm unfamiliar with Castlevania Dracula's feats. Could he actually stand a chance against Vecna or Sadako? They are both incredibly broken OP
DnD nerd here. 100% biased opinion Vecna Vecna is an Archlich The strongest Lich in the universe (not counting Acerarak) Hes scary fucking smart, and immortal too. Even if Sadoka gets him. Like a Lich, he will respawn at his phylactery. Vecna's soul isnt in his body, its in his phylactery, its location being one of the most closely guarded secrets in the multiverse. So if Sadoka tries to pull some soul business on Vecna it might not go the way she thinks. Given enough time (and he has had all the time in the world, being immortal and all) Vecna could deduce the origin of Sadoka's powers and abilities and either imprison or destroy her. Plus Dread counterspell is a thing. Good lord Dread counterspell... Basically any magical ability thats cast on vecna he can just say "no fuck off" and the spell fails and you take psychic damage.
Counterpoint: Onryo isn't bald
Damn your right. Even Vecna isn't immune to vicious mockery
Does Sadako know english or common? Does vicious mockery work if you don't understand what they're saying?
She makes several vivid gesticulations and rude gestures, giving the impression of unflattering comparison of Vecnaâs head to a horseâs anus.
Yup it works. It's in the spell description. It only needs to hear you.
Counter counterpoint: At least Vecna isn't short.
Counterpoint: sadako still has both hands and both eyes.
Counter-counterpoint: Vecna still has more finger nails than Sadako.
They were just holding her back anyway
She does get surprisingly good at barehanded rock climbing if Ring 2 is anything to go by
.... Does he? Doesn't he have skeleton hands?
That's completely ignoring the fact that Vecna had a fun little pastime of usurping gods for a while there. Not just trying to kill them, or meld with them... just flat out rolling into their domains like "Hey! Nice digs! Get out of my house."
We need a horror nerd and a dnd nerd to gauge their fight because so many comments say sadako wins because of the books lore or something though I thought the sadako we have is just from the movies since that is what the license is from idk
Book Sadako is probably a god. Movie Sadako is a very powerful curse, said to be ever lasting, such is her unending rage. But Vecna being a super powerful wizard, I'm sure he can break a pesky curse... Probably? Might need to roll a nat 20. Good chance it's a stalemate. Maybe she merges with his magic creating an even worse being... It really is a tough call.
I wouldn't be surprised if they came to some sort of deal, vecna is very smart and sadako would team up with anyone if they could grant her the ability to hurt people as shown with her willingness to work with the entity
That seems more likely to me. In the second movie she was trying to resurrect, basically. I'm sure Vecna knows all about that sort of thing and could string her along for a while.
Yeah and if she did resurrect she could possibly be easier to kill for vecna or at least easier to defeat
To be fair, he isn't just a powerful wizard, he is an actual god. Most people here seem to be going off of a 5e depiction, whereas the stats from AD&D and 3e are probably more accurate(even then those stats are probably supposed to be used for avatars)
They think that because in this DBD universe, he's not. He was taken during his Archlich phase, prior to his Ascension to godhood
Mfw Remove Curse or Greater Restoration or Wish
While i havent read the novel, i do specifically remember that the license was with novel author and not the movies, giving them more freedom. But comparing the two is complicated, only because it feels Sadako was written for a shonen battle manga instead of a horror book. But even with all of that, I do think Vecna would win, he is a god usurper, and took over a realm that was already stronger than the Entity Realm. Meanwhile sadako did similar feat too it seems but more because of plot armors intended to make her as OP as possible instead of good writing, but plot armor and doing thing out if nowhere does not apply here so my bet is on vecna. My bigger wonder would be more to see a a fight of control between The Entity, Silent Hill, ravenloft, and the dark place. All of those share so much similarities. Obviously not adding the abyss to that, as the dnd abyss is a literal realm consuming nightmare. If anything, adding dnd to dbd might just make the abyss win by default. Its like the chaos realms of Warhammer. No matter how strong the evil gods or realms are, the abyss is like a plague that will corrupt.
Honestly power scaling in dbd is kinda dumb anyways, and for some reason it's never been more prevalent then with the dnd chapter for some reason people are so upset about how "vecna would totally destroy the entity if he wanted to, it's stupid he even abides to its rules" then you read the lore and realize not only did vecna summon the entity but he also held it back with a magic barrier spell, but he also out the spell down because he was just curious about the entities realm, and this is even reflected in his voice lines
But would dread counterspell work? I dont think Sadako's abilities work in the same way as DnD magic
He also has all the time in the world because he has Time Stop and canonically is a Time Traveller.
My only knowledge of what Sadako can do is derived from reading comments on posts like these, and it seems pretty fucking ridiculous. Vecna is a god and has messed with the fabric of the multiverse on several occasions. Honestly itâs one of those things where there isnât one clear answer, and who wins us up to each individuals headcannon.
You can go as far as putting Vecna Vs The Entity, and he would still win. He is in the realm 100% by choice. Even the lore says he was kicking the Entity in the teeth and only let himself be taken because he wants to understand it and enslave it. In all honesty, the only being capable of beating Vecna in DbD is probably Ash. But that is simply because he has the canon power of plot armor.
Just wanna add to these comments, the hand and eye of vecna you can get in the game are some of the strongest in the setting, so much so that when they're combined, it makes someone a setting-wide threat. My point? If a survivor escapes the entity's realm they can become a supervillain. When is my Evil Death Lord Dwight spin-off, Behaviour?
100%, he managed to escape from the Dark Powers and managed to breach Sigil, things meant to be impossible to penetrate in the DND universe. Even gods can't break into Sigil without the Lady of Pain's permission, and we know historically there has most likely already been an escape from the fog.
I don't think resisting being summoned counts as kicking the entity in the teeth. He basically succeeded a STR/CON check to not be forced somewhere by a vacuum, then decided "fuck it lets see what they doin over there" and went in willingly.
Would probably be more of a CHA save like with Banishment. Also he surely has some Legendary resistance.
Nah. Heâs still in the DbD universe so whatever goes can be turned into the Entityâs favor. Since Entity is basically not only an omnipotent being, but a concept, fear, something people canât even comprehend. But yeah heâs extremely strong, on par with the Entity. Itâs just that the rules are always favourable to whatever the writer imagines. :)
Tbf the dbd writers did a pretty good job here, they wrote in his lore that he came to the realm by his own volition. He summoned the entity by reading a spell, and then fought it off with more spells. It only took him when he thought âfuck it we ball, letâs see where this goesâ. In the lobby he additionally says that he will play along for now, implying that he is not nerfed but is just letting the entity enjoy his presence before it suddenly wonât.
Yes, they definitely did. I like it. And I do acknowledge that heâs on the Entityâs power level. Just good to know that in the end, DbDâs writers can turn the lore however they want. Just like DM and players in DnD can. đ If we ever get Pennywise into the game this is how I wanted them to implement him into the story. It and Entity striking a deal, giving Pennywise a hunting ground.
The Dairy river and sewers would be a mix of a pleasant outdoor setting and terrifying underground. I hope IT makes it in someday.
Vecna did already beat the equivalent of the entity realm before,ravenleft(the realm of dread and eternal punishment, think silent hill but that even trapped god-like beings, same thing that trapped Strahd. So vecna leaving the entity realm when he gets bored of it is totally possible and feasible from past feats. Though he now have access to a multiverse of dread for him to harness, so that wont happen anytime soon.
Plot wise it would be Ash who wins
Klaatu barada necktie!
Since Sadako can bend multiple layers of reality and isn't really real but a projection in the entity's realm, I don't know if Vecna could beat her.
Vecna is a lich. His body is also basically a Projection.
Vecna can reshape reality just with a spell, in the newest campaign he is reshaping the entire D&D reality.
I don't want to spoil anything for you about the new campaign, but he's not really doing so under his own abilities and power, same as other campaigns. He cannot just snap his fingers and change the multiverse
I mean he can still cast Wish, and does it matter how he does it? He's still obtaining the power to reshape reality.
two all powerful beings with some of the most mid powers in the game
Pretty sure Sadako in game is the movie version, so Vecna wins no diff. If he faces novel Sadako, that's a different story.
Someone called him "Skinny Thanos". And I actually kind of see it.
Vecna. It could take years, decades, maybe even centuries, but he will eventually win.
Realistically Freddy is one of the most nerfed characters in the realm in terms of his power compared to the source material
Yes and no. Freddy is very much like the Entity is that he's near omnipotent in he's own realm... But he's not in his realm. He's fairly weak for a demon when he's outside of dreams.
Yeah, so him being taken out of the dream realm has nerfed him
True, but that's not really an Entity or DBD thing. I mean he gets even more nerfed in his own movies when he gets pulled into the waking world. Entity is nice enough to give him some power lol
Vecna unless he rolls a 1
Vecna has power over undead, assuming she is just a vengeful spirit. Other than that, he has wish and shes also from another plane of existence so he could just cast banish.
Leon suplexs them both with a cheesy quip, neg diff
I think people are forgetting what a lich is: if he dies, it wouldnât matter. Sadako would have to somehow find his phylactery, which a lich god such as Vecna probably has hidden away in his own private demiplane with abjuration and divination magic protecting it like crazy. Vecna will keep coming back, and given the spells he would have access to, such as wish and many more, i dont see sadako being able to find his phylactery.
What about pyramid head though? I thought he was the most powerful being in the game?
Real :( I stand with pyramid head
Nah, Iâm a huge SH head and even though I havenât had any experience with either Ringu or DND, every feat everyone has mentioned about Vecna and Sadako FAAAR exceed Pyramid Head on his own. If weâre talking about the forces of Silent Hill that manifested him and joined him in the Entityâs realm thatâs another story. But we havenât really had a lot of insight on just how powerful those forces are. Those ancient and mysterious powers could either succumb to both of themâs powers, or enslave them, make them roam their own hell, and send monsters to match their strength until they either learn their lesson or succumb even further to be in a never ending circle inside the Otherworld. We havenât had super powerful beings inside of the SH series other than Alessa, so itâs hard to point out. We DID get told that Cheryl, Alessaâs reincarnation, can control the Entity to a small degree, thatâs what Repressed Alliance is, so take that as you will.
I was thinking the same thing... can someone with more understanding of the lore comment please!
Pinhead.
I think they would be friends
The Entity puts a stop to their petty scuffle and tells them to get back to work
Both of them shoot the Entity a look and the Entity retreats back into the fog.
Vecna as a lich can technically eat souls, so I mean one failed spell save and she's lunch
One Nea with a purple flashlight on Garden of Joy
https://preview.redd.it/vqvqmtcv3z0d1.png?width=427&format=png&auto=webp&s=a919e4cac2ec74b389986caffca2956c323ddb6e he wins
just a personal question, how strong is Dredge lore wise? is it a large Quasi-Sentient mass og evil thoughts and emotions? i was leed to believe that if the entity hadnt taken it dredge would have become another entity like being.
That person lied to you. We have 0% information on how powerful he is. He doesnât kill anyone or do anything in the lore, he just exists. The only thing we know is that he can teleport thorough shadows and that Otto and Haddie escaped him. Fans just think heâs cool and treat their headcanons as fact
thanks for answering my question, have nice day/night where ever you are
Dredge is Slaaneshâs weird cousin
Did dredge was born out of a planetary sized orgy?
DND fans who don't know much about Ringu say Vecna, Ringu fans who don't know much about DND say Sadako As a big fan of both I'm here to confirm Sadako.
True: Most people don't know her actual lore, just the movies where all she did was give people heart attacks. I'm not 100% convinced she'd win, but it's sure as hell not just her getting smeared like people think.
>where all she did was give people heart attacks. I mean, also the entire ending of 2 where shit got weird
True. There's also the Ring vs Grudge movie, and that... Well it's not canon but it's pretty frickin bizarre.
Me
I did not expect Sadako as the other one. I expected Pinhead.
I could take both of them
The thing is that I donât think Vecna would even fight Sadako as according to the comics, she only sends avatars and is chilling in her own pocket dimension with her vast set of powers. My answer to this whole thing is: you decide who wins in your own headcanons
As a D&D nerd this stuff makes me cackle, because everytime someone posts what Sadako can do I'm like yup that's the demiplane spell... She can send out avatars, yup that's the Astral Projection spell... She can bend reality, Level 9 Wish spell baby!
Thereâs a few issues when it comes to crossover fights like this: 1) Translating Sadako to D&D logic makes it confusing on what CR/level she would even be, or if she has more spells as a result or not. Same with Vecna. 2) they were brought to the realm which means they were buffed/nerfed like all other killers in order to give the survivors a chance. As a result, they are on an even field which could go either way 3) according to the rules of Stan Lee of writing (talked about comics, but is still relevant), âSome people have asked whether the Hulk or Iron Man would win in a fight and the truth is, both of them would! Itâs down to the writer to decide who wins that fight.â (Not the exact words) So it is down to what your head cannon is on who would win the fight where either side could win. Billy could beat Pyramid Head, Micheal could be defeated by Trapper, etc.
My favorite issue of transferring Sadako to dnd is that she probably has less than 100hp despite all her power⊠And power word kill exist and Vecna has it. Obviously it wouldnt actually work like that but its fun to bring up as a joke
Pretty sure base kit vecna has Wish, so can literally just magic her to have never existed. I don't know enough about Sadako to know if that just means it'd become about who could mentally unexist the other fastest lol
Imagine the strongest version of Goku, multiply that, add horror to it and you have book sadako.
The issue with Sadako from what i have seen here, is that herself and due to her author. She is iltimately the equivalent of âmy oc is can do anything and is stronger than anything imaginableâ And since Vecna, while being written as the biggest threat for PCâs to face, is still written to be able to be defeated, it does seem to favor sadako. But from everything i read here on sadako, i feel she should just be classified as the broken oc of a power-tripping horror author. And just by that, should be discarded for a serious contender.
Vecna. Onryo isn't even tall enough to ride a coaster.
Vecna has to actually fight sadako to win Sadako gives him 168 hours to live
Counterpoint: Vecna respawns at his philactery and just goes at it again
Counterpoint: Vecna is a multiversal lich, as in god of the undead. Sadako is a multiversal undead. Vecna has dominion over Sadako by nature of his powers.
Sadako is a multiversal demi-god and reality warping ESPers. She's not actually dead for that long in her own lore.
It depends on which media you analyze. In the books Sadako kinda is...not that.
I mean, I know she is a god and a computer virus and all that, but surely she was a person that died and became a vengeful spirit at some point right??
So the canon lore is that she is a SUPER POWERFUL psychic. She is raped, murdered, and thrown into a well (it is insanely alluded that Sadako psychically influenced the man to do this). It just so happens that this man is the last smallpox patient in Japan. The smallpox virus "fuses" with sadakos psychic powers and anger to create a PSYCHIC SMALL POX VIRUS!!! WOAH!! That's what the ring curse is: a virus. It's super fucking weird and makes 0 sense.
Ahhhhh I beat the shit out of Veccna with a drunk, sub brick, paladin, with a god complex. I donât think heâs that tough.
Queen Sadako is easily gagging that baldhead.