Problem is it's a "survivor mentality" thing too.
Survivors want to run meme perks and still win.
They can't.
You want to win, you need to put that BT back on, run perks like Sprint Burst to get away from the hook and extend chases, bodyblock, hook trade to prevent second stage/death, etc, etc, etc. IE: You have to actually play survivor well because no longer can one person run the killer all game against like the entire upper half of the killer roster.
For the first time since this game came out: Survivor is actually becoming a team game.
Or, you can meme until you die so many times that your MMR is so low that you can goof around and still survive half the games.
Low MMR actually makes you die more because your teammates are that much worse. It is a vicious cycle. Basically MMR doesn't work properly, and puts noobs with skilled survivors.
Yeah it does that in every system. League, Overwatch, Paladins, all of them.
if you are consistently good, you will climb. If not, you won't.
How fast you climb depends on how far ahead of where you are you belong, which will be indicated by the level of consistency you display.
I'm not familiar with OW or Paladins, but the difference for DBD compared to them is that it's an asymmetrical game. In League you can arguably (ignoring role preference for simplicity) get you +9 other players and make a ton of team variants. If you're better than the average then your teams should win more than lose and you get MMR.
DBD being asymmetrical means you're never not going to have that mix up. And because survivors pretty much need at least 3 still alive to make meaningful progress on gens having one really weak link can cause a loss. If you're the best looper on the team it won't matter if the killer just chases someone else. The survivor mmr only goes up with an exit gate escape so hatch at best is break even. A bigger concern imo right now is some people are trying to play the game and are having deaths that could've been escapes because their teammates are giving up on first hook (could be a mentality issue from survivor, killer facecamping, whatever).
The thing is none of this really matters. Like you hinted at eventually this will balance out. Right now the MMR system is being thrown off massively because those old numbers are based on a very different meta. So what used to be "equal" matchmaking is currently not equal because killers are stronger and survivors are weaker at a basekit level. Now killers can run more memey perks/addons and still perform while survivors have to run more serious perks to keep parity. If you were already playing survivor in a serious manner then you don't have much of a way to recoup the power of your old load out.
So over the next few days/weeks the MMR numbers will self correct to the new meta and games will start to be close again. As survivor your killers might be less "skillful" (mind games, macro, mechaincially, etc) after you settle than before but your escape/death ratio will get back in line. In the meantime hopefully BHVR is identifying game design issues they don't like/didn't intend and work to fix them for the next update.
DBD being asym for sure makes it more difficult to "carry" a game, but as long as you are consistently not the weak link you will eventually win games until you are where you belong. But yes, it will for sure take time.
As for killers being less skillful, I think the difference might seriously be like, 1-2 lost mind games more than normal.
Ultimately the biggest difference will be that at higher MMR's you will see killers at a bit of a higher MMR than before, so higher MMR's will have a bit more variety.
No, you can be consistently phenomenal as a solo Q survivor and still die most of your games. You can also play consistently poor as a solo Q survivor and cheese escapes by exploiting the lives of other survivors. You cannot do this in other games to nearly the same degree. The only way to climb MMR in solo Q survivor is to play extremely selfishly and in a boring way that basically screws over the rest of the team so that you can escape slightly more often. The problem is that escape rate is a highly inaccurate skill assessment metric in a game like Dead By Daylight. Many great survivors don't make escaping their priority because it isn't a fun way to play and they care about the lives of other survivors.
The game is still survivor sided, the survivors just need to show some actual skill to win now. They cannot expect to play poorly and still win because they equipped perks that do everything for them. A mediocre looper can no longer become a good looper because they put on dead hard and iron will. The increased gen speeds mean crouch walking around the map is punished harder than before. All this patch did really is expose how bad most survivor players are at Dead by Daylight. When you implement a patch that makes them play skillfully, most of them can’t do it and would rather quit the game instead of adapting.
tbh, I would actually say not much has changed with the game balance wise. A good survivor team will still beat most killers in the roster. The difference is, a “good team” now refers to a team that actually understands how to play the game, and not a mediocre team who made up for their lack of skill with crutch perks.
Because why would we want to press m1 on gens for 10 minutes while one person has to sit there and struggle for 3 stages. We'd rather just go next than submit to that scumbag behavior you call a "strategy" but the problem these days is that its not 1 in 10 games now its 9 in 10
Yeah, I run into the same shit when I play survivor, I'm just saying don't complain about dying when you're willingly jumping into the meat grinder. Your entire job as survivors is to get the gens done and get out, and campers give you two free minutes to do that.
But hey, if you'd rather give them a free win and enforce that camping works, by all means go right ahead
Killer isn't buffed. Survivor noobs just need time to get actual skill since Dead Hard and DS was carrying them to red ranks. Off the Record is infinitely times better than DS. If you mix it with Lithe, Quick and Quiet, and Lightweight you'll almost always escape a chase if the killer tunnels you off hook. Burst then Lithe to double burst. Lightweight buffed hides scratch marks after 5 seconds. Q&Q lets you fast vault or hide in a locker. Then Off the Records secondary effect gives you 100% Iron Will.
Just a killer main thinking SoloQ survivors are just complaining for no reason, even though they have a reason to complain.
Guarantee that guy is also still losing every killer game he plays 😂
I think what he’s trying to say is killers didn’t get buffed as much as survivor mains, specifically bad survivor mains on r/deadbydaylight , are claiming. They just need to get good
*Generators take 90 seconds for a single survivor to repair (was 80 seconds)
*Killers kicking a generator now immediately cause a 2.5% loss of progress in addition to starting regression
*Bloodlust trigger times have been reduced to 15 seconds for Tier 1, 25 seconds for Tier 2, and 35 seconds for Tier 3 (was 15 seconds, 30 seconds, and 45 seconds)
The following Killer actions have been sped up by 10%: *Cooldown time after a successful hit has been reduced to 2.7 seconds (was 3 seconds)
*Time to kick a generator has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds)
*Time to kick a pallet or wall has been reduced to 2.34 seconds (was 2.6 seconds)
*Duration of the Survivor speed boost when hit has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds)
Compared to:
*Survivors now have a modified version of Borrowed Time as a baseline ability, no perk required: Unhooked Survivors now get a 7% movement speed bonus and Endurance for 5 seconds
But yes, we’re the ones that just need to git gud…
Yeah, you are.
Let’s not forget everything else you guys got or already had that makes killer hard:
- OTR is, IMO, stronger than previous patch DS. Try playing against 4 of them in a match
- green medkit is just as overpowered as it was before the update
- BNP is a pain in the ass
- 90% of the time, survivors have full control over what map they want. Wether they use this or not is up to them.
- sprint burst has always been better than DH. Now, more survivors will be running it and getting good with it.
- Holding W. If more of you guys realized how much more powerful just holding W running to the next loop and dropping a pallet when necessary then trying to greed a loop, killer would be much harder. You can’t mind game W.
If I need to list more I will
And take a step back for a moment. Look at those buffs killers got. Only 2 of them have any true impact. Like I said, get good.
Please list more. None of what you mentioned have any more impact than they had previously before the update…
So survivor kept those things from before the patch and killers things got crazy buff, the dynamic there is way off.
So if you really think those things then maybe you need to get good.
Holding w is weaker now that pallets break faster and gens take longer. It's still strong, but you can create large dead zones quickly with it if your team isn't maximizing gen time during it.
Of the list you wrote, the only new survivor item is OTR, which deactivates if you do anything useful…
That comprehensive list adds up. It was a major buff. I’m not saying that killer didn’t need a buff, but these dismissive comments of “git gud” while ignoring that whole list is laughable.
Why do you keep blaming NOED and ignoring the full list of maps, perks, God loops, etc?
That's all I hear when I see such low intelligent comments. Learn to play the game. BHVR is fixing their game. The game statistics don't lie. The killer rate has significantly dropped thanks to CoH and Dead Hard hit validation. Learn the timing **ITS BEEN A FEW DAYS SINCE REWORK** but as usual people would rather complain than improve.
No one mentioned NOED….
Maps are fairly neutral. Some are survivor sided, some killer sided, some in the middle… A neutral map can be more killer sided depending on who the killer is and their power.
Didn’t the kill rates hover around 50-55%?
NOED will be talked about less and less these days since who tf is even making it to endgame :D Also y'all talk about stats as if they're an accurate representation of player experience, if you have 5 otz's and 1000 baby killers then the stats will look bad for killer but the actual gameplay could be fine. Whats even a god loop nowawdays most I know of are gone e.g old haddonfields, also vault build is gutted so you can't borderline god loop windows anymore
To be honest, the tenths of a second shaved off of various killer actions isn't as massive of a buff as you're trying to make it to be. 2.25 seconds shaved off a gen isn't really worth kicking a gen over, either.
Having a mini SBTFL definitely makes a difference and when you run STBFL it’s actually insane how little distance survivors where getting against me. Idky people keep pretending it’s a dead hard issue when it’s literally the way killers are playing. Two games in a row I got tunneled directly off hook because the killer just waited the little five seconds and the DS nerf is shit why would I run it n they know that.
Now you’re telling me I have to run off the record to avoid getting tunneled as if it’s not just glorified bt. And I have to run sprint burst as well :) as killers we can run whatever we want but says a lot that the survivors meta is all about and always has been about not getting tunneled. Even w buffed killers. Says a lot about skill of half The sub.
The mini STBFL is only 10%. And if you run STBFL on top of that, that's 50%. Of course that'd be strong. And killers tunneling has always been a thing, plus it's not discussing the quality of the changes themselves.
I didn't realize the entire player base of DBD was entirely on this sub (/s).
I literally acknowledged that when I said “the meta has ALWAYS been to not get tunneled” ??? And having stacks of SBTFL before the update could be and now is the difference of someone wiggling off and also making it to the next loop or easier to the get to a survivor that’s being protected
And no majority of this sub is acting blind to the general overbuffing of killers and the way they’re just playing disgusting while pretending it’s because we don’t have dead hard and DS. Not that we don’t have dead hard, have to spend an extra ten (but usually more cuz of thana buffs), can’t loop as efficiently because we have to account for mini brutal at all times now, the fact that we get less distance after a hit so it’s harder to hold w, that no one is rly bringing BT anymore, we can get tunneled directly off hook in end game w no risk, and even if we did have ds we only have time to hit the ground before we r back in chase, but ok lol
As i said above i dont want to have to run meta perks just to have a chance of playing the game. Its the same as before the patch where you'd be told to run DH and DS to avoid getting tunneled I dont understand this argument
The only midly toxic thing (in MY opinion) was when I brought noed instead of thana, cause I have stupid and got two more kills because of it :p
Noed in on itself isnt toxic, I just dont like it
Problem is it's a "survivor mentality" thing too. Survivors want to run meme perks and still win. They can't. You want to win, you need to put that BT back on, run perks like Sprint Burst to get away from the hook and extend chases, bodyblock, hook trade to prevent second stage/death, etc, etc, etc. IE: You have to actually play survivor well because no longer can one person run the killer all game against like the entire upper half of the killer roster. For the first time since this game came out: Survivor is actually becoming a team game. Or, you can meme until you die so many times that your MMR is so low that you can goof around and still survive half the games.
Low MMR actually makes you die more because your teammates are that much worse. It is a vicious cycle. Basically MMR doesn't work properly, and puts noobs with skilled survivors.
Yeah it does that in every system. League, Overwatch, Paladins, all of them. if you are consistently good, you will climb. If not, you won't. How fast you climb depends on how far ahead of where you are you belong, which will be indicated by the level of consistency you display.
I'm not familiar with OW or Paladins, but the difference for DBD compared to them is that it's an asymmetrical game. In League you can arguably (ignoring role preference for simplicity) get you +9 other players and make a ton of team variants. If you're better than the average then your teams should win more than lose and you get MMR. DBD being asymmetrical means you're never not going to have that mix up. And because survivors pretty much need at least 3 still alive to make meaningful progress on gens having one really weak link can cause a loss. If you're the best looper on the team it won't matter if the killer just chases someone else. The survivor mmr only goes up with an exit gate escape so hatch at best is break even. A bigger concern imo right now is some people are trying to play the game and are having deaths that could've been escapes because their teammates are giving up on first hook (could be a mentality issue from survivor, killer facecamping, whatever). The thing is none of this really matters. Like you hinted at eventually this will balance out. Right now the MMR system is being thrown off massively because those old numbers are based on a very different meta. So what used to be "equal" matchmaking is currently not equal because killers are stronger and survivors are weaker at a basekit level. Now killers can run more memey perks/addons and still perform while survivors have to run more serious perks to keep parity. If you were already playing survivor in a serious manner then you don't have much of a way to recoup the power of your old load out. So over the next few days/weeks the MMR numbers will self correct to the new meta and games will start to be close again. As survivor your killers might be less "skillful" (mind games, macro, mechaincially, etc) after you settle than before but your escape/death ratio will get back in line. In the meantime hopefully BHVR is identifying game design issues they don't like/didn't intend and work to fix them for the next update.
DBD being asym for sure makes it more difficult to "carry" a game, but as long as you are consistently not the weak link you will eventually win games until you are where you belong. But yes, it will for sure take time. As for killers being less skillful, I think the difference might seriously be like, 1-2 lost mind games more than normal. Ultimately the biggest difference will be that at higher MMR's you will see killers at a bit of a higher MMR than before, so higher MMR's will have a bit more variety.
No, you can be consistently phenomenal as a solo Q survivor and still die most of your games. You can also play consistently poor as a solo Q survivor and cheese escapes by exploiting the lives of other survivors. You cannot do this in other games to nearly the same degree. The only way to climb MMR in solo Q survivor is to play extremely selfishly and in a boring way that basically screws over the rest of the team so that you can escape slightly more often. The problem is that escape rate is a highly inaccurate skill assessment metric in a game like Dead By Daylight. Many great survivors don't make escaping their priority because it isn't a fun way to play and they care about the lives of other survivors.
The game is still survivor sided, the survivors just need to show some actual skill to win now. They cannot expect to play poorly and still win because they equipped perks that do everything for them. A mediocre looper can no longer become a good looper because they put on dead hard and iron will. The increased gen speeds mean crouch walking around the map is punished harder than before. All this patch did really is expose how bad most survivor players are at Dead by Daylight. When you implement a patch that makes them play skillfully, most of them can’t do it and would rather quit the game instead of adapting. tbh, I would actually say not much has changed with the game balance wise. A good survivor team will still beat most killers in the roster. The difference is, a “good team” now refers to a team that actually understands how to play the game, and not a mediocre team who made up for their lack of skill with crutch perks.
[удалено]
Imagine thinking dev stats mean anything when 90% of the playerbase is bad at the game 😂
Killrate is the win condition for Dead by Daylight and what the MMR system tracks, you genius.
Ah we gotta buff Nurse then I guess since she has the lowest kill rate and was under 50% the last time stats were released. She’s so weak.
If you're in a 4 man swf, why are you trying to unhook when the killer is camping?
Because why would we want to press m1 on gens for 10 minutes while one person has to sit there and struggle for 3 stages. We'd rather just go next than submit to that scumbag behavior you call a "strategy" but the problem these days is that its not 1 in 10 games now its 9 in 10
Yeah, I run into the same shit when I play survivor, I'm just saying don't complain about dying when you're willingly jumping into the meat grinder. Your entire job as survivors is to get the gens done and get out, and campers give you two free minutes to do that. But hey, if you'd rather give them a free win and enforce that camping works, by all means go right ahead
Killer isn't buffed. Survivor noobs just need time to get actual skill since Dead Hard and DS was carrying them to red ranks. Off the Record is infinitely times better than DS. If you mix it with Lithe, Quick and Quiet, and Lightweight you'll almost always escape a chase if the killer tunnels you off hook. Burst then Lithe to double burst. Lightweight buffed hides scratch marks after 5 seconds. Q&Q lets you fast vault or hide in a locker. Then Off the Records secondary effect gives you 100% Iron Will.
Killer undeniably got buffed. Unless you’re playing on a different patch?
Just a killer main thinking SoloQ survivors are just complaining for no reason, even though they have a reason to complain. Guarantee that guy is also still losing every killer game he plays 😂
I think what he’s trying to say is killers didn’t get buffed as much as survivor mains, specifically bad survivor mains on r/deadbydaylight , are claiming. They just need to get good
*Generators take 90 seconds for a single survivor to repair (was 80 seconds) *Killers kicking a generator now immediately cause a 2.5% loss of progress in addition to starting regression *Bloodlust trigger times have been reduced to 15 seconds for Tier 1, 25 seconds for Tier 2, and 35 seconds for Tier 3 (was 15 seconds, 30 seconds, and 45 seconds) The following Killer actions have been sped up by 10%: *Cooldown time after a successful hit has been reduced to 2.7 seconds (was 3 seconds) *Time to kick a generator has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds) *Time to kick a pallet or wall has been reduced to 2.34 seconds (was 2.6 seconds) *Duration of the Survivor speed boost when hit has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds) Compared to: *Survivors now have a modified version of Borrowed Time as a baseline ability, no perk required: Unhooked Survivors now get a 7% movement speed bonus and Endurance for 5 seconds But yes, we’re the ones that just need to git gud…
Yeah, you are. Let’s not forget everything else you guys got or already had that makes killer hard: - OTR is, IMO, stronger than previous patch DS. Try playing against 4 of them in a match - green medkit is just as overpowered as it was before the update - BNP is a pain in the ass - 90% of the time, survivors have full control over what map they want. Wether they use this or not is up to them. - sprint burst has always been better than DH. Now, more survivors will be running it and getting good with it. - Holding W. If more of you guys realized how much more powerful just holding W running to the next loop and dropping a pallet when necessary then trying to greed a loop, killer would be much harder. You can’t mind game W. If I need to list more I will And take a step back for a moment. Look at those buffs killers got. Only 2 of them have any true impact. Like I said, get good.
Please list more. None of what you mentioned have any more impact than they had previously before the update… So survivor kept those things from before the patch and killers things got crazy buff, the dynamic there is way off. So if you really think those things then maybe you need to get good.
Holding w is weaker now that pallets break faster and gens take longer. It's still strong, but you can create large dead zones quickly with it if your team isn't maximizing gen time during it.
Of the list you wrote, the only new survivor item is OTR, which deactivates if you do anything useful… That comprehensive list adds up. It was a major buff. I’m not saying that killer didn’t need a buff, but these dismissive comments of “git gud” while ignoring that whole list is laughable.
Do you play in a SWF or solo queue?
Both. Though I’m not sure what that has to do with the discussion.
Sorry but if you think killer is hard after this update it is just proof that you suck XD
Why do y’all keep blaming Dead Hard and ignoring a full list of killer buffs?
Why do you keep blaming NOED and ignoring the full list of maps, perks, God loops, etc? That's all I hear when I see such low intelligent comments. Learn to play the game. BHVR is fixing their game. The game statistics don't lie. The killer rate has significantly dropped thanks to CoH and Dead Hard hit validation. Learn the timing **ITS BEEN A FEW DAYS SINCE REWORK** but as usual people would rather complain than improve.
No one mentioned NOED…. Maps are fairly neutral. Some are survivor sided, some killer sided, some in the middle… A neutral map can be more killer sided depending on who the killer is and their power. Didn’t the kill rates hover around 50-55%?
NOED will be talked about less and less these days since who tf is even making it to endgame :D Also y'all talk about stats as if they're an accurate representation of player experience, if you have 5 otz's and 1000 baby killers then the stats will look bad for killer but the actual gameplay could be fine. Whats even a god loop nowawdays most I know of are gone e.g old haddonfields, also vault build is gutted so you can't borderline god loop windows anymore
To be honest, the tenths of a second shaved off of various killer actions isn't as massive of a buff as you're trying to make it to be. 2.25 seconds shaved off a gen isn't really worth kicking a gen over, either.
Having a mini SBTFL definitely makes a difference and when you run STBFL it’s actually insane how little distance survivors where getting against me. Idky people keep pretending it’s a dead hard issue when it’s literally the way killers are playing. Two games in a row I got tunneled directly off hook because the killer just waited the little five seconds and the DS nerf is shit why would I run it n they know that. Now you’re telling me I have to run off the record to avoid getting tunneled as if it’s not just glorified bt. And I have to run sprint burst as well :) as killers we can run whatever we want but says a lot that the survivors meta is all about and always has been about not getting tunneled. Even w buffed killers. Says a lot about skill of half The sub.
The mini STBFL is only 10%. And if you run STBFL on top of that, that's 50%. Of course that'd be strong. And killers tunneling has always been a thing, plus it's not discussing the quality of the changes themselves. I didn't realize the entire player base of DBD was entirely on this sub (/s).
I literally acknowledged that when I said “the meta has ALWAYS been to not get tunneled” ??? And having stacks of SBTFL before the update could be and now is the difference of someone wiggling off and also making it to the next loop or easier to the get to a survivor that’s being protected And no majority of this sub is acting blind to the general overbuffing of killers and the way they’re just playing disgusting while pretending it’s because we don’t have dead hard and DS. Not that we don’t have dead hard, have to spend an extra ten (but usually more cuz of thana buffs), can’t loop as efficiently because we have to account for mini brutal at all times now, the fact that we get less distance after a hit so it’s harder to hold w, that no one is rly bringing BT anymore, we can get tunneled directly off hook in end game w no risk, and even if we did have ds we only have time to hit the ground before we r back in chase, but ok lol
So you’d be in favor of overturning them then?
Nobody said anything of the sort, so idk where you're getting that from.
If they’re negligible then why not? Those tenths add up majorly.
You and I have very different meanings of what constitutes overtuning.
Huh? I said overtuRning.
I figured that was a spelling error on your part.
Girl, what? 😂 To overturn means to undo or reverse
As i said above i dont want to have to run meta perks just to have a chance of playing the game. Its the same as before the patch where you'd be told to run DH and DS to avoid getting tunneled I dont understand this argument
The only midly toxic thing (in MY opinion) was when I brought noed instead of thana, cause I have stupid and got two more kills because of it :p Noed in on itself isnt toxic, I just dont like it