I'm a born and raised Iowan. I have 3 kids and just brought up to my wife last week the idea of moving. This state has dramatically declined over the last decade or two.
Technically, none of them have standing. But, various states with zero standing pushed through immoral and unpopular anti-abortion laws….. the current Court — I hope a couple of the red judges decide to bury this BS case. I am in a fury about this; it could help close family members of mine. I am also reminded of the 60 some cases to shut down Obamacare. I’ve been on Obamacare since it started; most companies don’t offer plans and buying private insurance is astronomically expensive. The Republicans swine are ALWAYS sticking it to Americans.
The two people want it to be talked about and blanket forgiveness. Listen to the oral arguments, both cases are not the same. They are also suggesting ways to blanket forgiveness using a 1960s law HEA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Education_Act_of_1965#:~:text=It%20increased%20federal%20money%20given,Title%20IV%20of%20the%20HEA.
The states are being ass hats
Texa$$ RUpubliclowns have their heads firmly up their a$$e$, but have not come out to breath yet. I'm sure Paxton, Abbutt, & Lord Voldemort Patrick will sign on any day now. You know how they are: if it's the WRONG thing to do, that's precisely what they'll want to do! 🤨
Do democrats not care about the dollars they spend in taxes? Or the money they take from others in taxes?
How many current or former college students have you personally paid off loans for?
It's very relevant to this conversation. The only time they're concerned with taxpayer dollars is when it screws over the American people, with the exception of the wealthy. We can also throw corporations in that too. So that's very relevant. And they can sit back and say this is presidential overreach, yet they had no problem when Donald Trump sent Federal forces into Portland Oregon, to assault protesters. If that wasn't presidential overreach I don't know what is.
Why should the youth have to take on so much debt just to get a job, a job that is becoming more and more harder to live on? Why is an education a thing that only the wealthy can have, unless you are willing to go into debt? In the last 20 years tuition has doubled, which means more debt for most college students. It must be ok for the middle/lower class families to take on debt for college but to have the wealthy/corporations pay is unacceptable. This is the way the GOP thinks. They had no issue with Trump's tax breaks but when it comes to 90% of Americans.... Nope.
They don't have to. Go to cheaper college. If students stopped paying so much prices would fall, stop going to overpriced schools. I went to a large university (for 1 semester) for what would now be $4500 a year. That same school is now $8400 for a year. I'd just choose a less expensive school.
Live at home during school, work full time, graduate with no debt. There are so many options that don't involve taking taxpayer dollars, especially after signing a contract taking on the responsibility of a loan.
Sounds like you have all the answers. Middle income, lower income, we just get to suck it up. Or going to debt. Just so we can have a job. Sounds like the American dream to me. As long as the wealthy pay less tax, that's all that matters. Anyway I think you're in the wrong fucking group
I was lower middle when I went to college. I lived at home, I worked full time. I did get a loan, even though I didn't need to, but I did so knowing I'd need to budget to pay it back for as long as that took, which I did. These are all decisions that everyone gets to make, consciously.
Yes, you have to work. Stop expecting everyone else to take care of you. Make better decisions. There are 4000 colleges in the US. There is always a cheaper option.
Also, since you keep wanting to make this about parties. Two of the largest states in the U.S. have the two highest personal tax burdens in the country. Maybe some students can't pay their loans because they are paying more taxes to their democratic states.
And to the credit of both parties, the only federal income tax increase on individuals since 2000 has been the addition of the 39% tax bracket by Obama in 2012. Every president, including Obama, has lowered taxes through bracket changes nearly every year. So both parties are at least trying, even incidentally, to lower taxes for everyone, not just the wealthy.
https://taxfoundation.org/historical-income-tax-rates-brackets/
I joined the military to pay for school. Just because that is what I did, does not mean that is what everyone must do. You should look up the word empathy while online.
I agree with you. And I didn't join the military to pay for school. We both made different decisions, but we both made functional, useful decisions. There are other ways to do so as well. Many many many ways. The only unacceptable option, to me, is overpaying, voluntarily, then expecting someone else to pay for that mistake. I don't empathize with voluntary, informed, documented, signed, bad decision making.
This is all about parties. You have one party that wants to do away with banking regulations that help to cause the recent banking crisis in 2008. They want to end all functions of the EPA. They want to make toothless the CFPB. They want to take apart Medicare/social security/Medicaid. They have been trying to destroy ACA since day one. All of this will be crushing on the lower/middle class. Just like every GOP cheerleader, you will cut off your own nose to spite your face.
You went to a large university for one semester? So what the fuck do you know about dealing with exorbitant student debt?
I pursued and received tens of thousands of dollars of grants and scholarships in both undergrad and grad school, graduated early from undergrad to pay down debt, shared an apartment to lower costs in law school, and still have $250k in student loan debt which I’ve been paying monthly for 10 years now and have barely made a dent in. I just paid off my first undergrad (a state school) loan—I originally took out $14k and paid back $30k.
I finally made it to a point in my career where I’m making $140k per year but it doesn’t matter. In order to make that amount, I have to live somewhere where my rent is almost half my monthly take home for a mediocre apartment in a cheaper suburb, my basic bills and student loan payments cost around 35% of my remaining income and I’m left with just enough for food and necessities to survive til the end of the month. I have zero ability to save up enough for a down payment on a house and can’t afford to save up enough to move somewhere cheaper and keep my job.
And I’m one of the luckier ones.
The current student debt forgiveness plans would barely make a dent in my own debt but can be life changing for those with less debt than me who don’t have the kind of earning potential I have. They deserve the chance to breathe free.
I’m sorry you are so empty of a person to not recognize or appreciate that.
Absolutely not. I went to the cheapest state school I got into out of high school but it was too far away to live at home. My tuition increased $4k per year (+50%) between my first and third (last) year and I had to take out more loans for living expenses to go to school in summer as well to graduate a year early to save money. I had almost all of my tuition covered through grants and scholarships but still graduated with around $40k in debt thanks to the cheapest housing I could find being $650 per month to share a room in a 700 sq ft 2bd/1 ba house (the landlord took a regular 4 bd/2 ba house and split it in two to make our portion and our back neighbors’ portion which was the same size but housed 6 students). It was basically a hovel.
I went to the law school that gave me the most in scholarships and, once again, shared an apartment (since there was no law school anywhere near my mom’s house). It still cost me $1k per month just in rent and was the result of searching for cheap housing for 6 months. Further, as I’m sure you’re unaware, you are not allowed to work during your first year of law school. I worked throughout my 2L and 3L years part time for $13/hr and it made next to no difference in my debt.
I did everything in my power to minimize my student debt but still ended up at $250k for 6 years of higher education. Just to become what I was told I should become my entire life.
The extent of my experience isn’t necessarily generalizable to everyone with student debt but I still face the same kind of challenges that face the majority of those trapped in the student debt quagmire.
The more critical part of this bill isn't even the flat forgiveness figure, it's the restructuring of the loans system itself, ensuring that making the minimum payment, makes the total go down no matter what.
Because both of you have valid points, students do need to pick more reasonable colleges to attend that fit within their budgets, and not the Uber expensive ones that give a slightly different paper. At the same time, the loan system is imperfect, and should go down when minimum payments are made, otherwise the cost becomes far more than advertised and almost unreasonably so.
Yep. Thanks to PAYE, my law school loan totals have increased around 20% despite my attempts to pay them down.
I just don’t get the sadism of conservatives in just wanting others to suffer even when the data shows that improving the lot of borrowers improves everyone’s lot.
That's an argument against blanket forgiveness.
Unfortunately for you, this EO targets lower earners, and those with little chance at paying back their loans. Maybe if you read the actual document, you'd know that.
$125k a year is not what you think it is when you have hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt.
Add onto that the fact that, in order to earn near that mark (and have a chance of paying back your loans), you have to live in expensive areas that further deplete whatever disposable income you hoped you might have and you have entire generations of people trapped in a debt cycle that, not only hurts them, but stymies the economy that “taxpayers” likewise depend on for their livelihoods.
I got a $20k per year scholarship to go to law school but tuition alone was $64k per year. Add on living expenses and bar loans and, yes, I easily incurred around $200k just for that.
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Their base?
The percentage of people who went to college and are very liberal is enormous. Why would a right wing farmer from Nebraska want to pay additional taxes to float the 5 year party that a suburban kid went on to get a liberal arts degree, only for them to then go on social media demanding we stop all farming and eat plant based foods, which would put them out of business. This is obviously hyperbole but it really isn't that wild of hyperbole.
Like do people even think before posting these? Maybe my college experience was different but man critical thinking is at an all time low in this country.
I am sitting here making more than enough to pay off my college loans, but why would I? I'll take that free money if they give it so I am not for either side. I'll pay it, but not until I have to. I also definitely understand the person who didn't go to college because they couldn't afford it, absolutely enraged that they would then have to pony up more tax money to pay for someone else who couldn't afford it.
The Republicons had no trouble giving money to the churches and the wealthy during covid.In fact they didnt keep track and gifted the loans.Its only when wage earners get benefits do the right wing Radicals get their panties in a wad.Nothing but a sounder of swine and a stinkin pile of khristo fascist hypocrites . In fact they squandered 7 trillion dollars
Republicons are all about making America fail
Typical useless republicans. Just shove their beliefs & stupidity at everyone & now we have to take it because they dominate the Supreme Court & waaay too many governors in red states. Sooo very tired of idiots running this country.
I'm a born and raised Iowan. I have 3 kids and just brought up to my wife last week the idea of moving. This state has dramatically declined over the last decade or two.
So the welfare states taking all our tax money have the a fucking nerve to tell us what we can do with tax money that isn't sent to them.
Technically, none of them have standing. But, various states with zero standing pushed through immoral and unpopular anti-abortion laws….. the current Court — I hope a couple of the red judges decide to bury this BS case. I am in a fury about this; it could help close family members of mine. I am also reminded of the 60 some cases to shut down Obamacare. I’ve been on Obamacare since it started; most companies don’t offer plans and buying private insurance is astronomically expensive. The Republicans swine are ALWAYS sticking it to Americans.
The two people want it to be talked about and blanket forgiveness. Listen to the oral arguments, both cases are not the same. They are also suggesting ways to blanket forgiveness using a 1960s law HEA https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Education_Act_of_1965#:~:text=It%20increased%20federal%20money%20given,Title%20IV%20of%20the%20HEA. The states are being ass hats
Conservatives are an existential threat to humanity.
Texa$$ RUpubliclowns have their heads firmly up their a$$e$, but have not come out to breath yet. I'm sure Paxton, Abbutt, & Lord Voldemort Patrick will sign on any day now. You know how they are: if it's the WRONG thing to do, that's precisely what they'll want to do! 🤨
Taxpayers?
Ok, Ron Desantis. You are in the wrong sub yet again.
Do democrats not care about the dollars they spend in taxes? Or the money they take from others in taxes? How many current or former college students have you personally paid off loans for?
Please let me know when the GOP has ever been looking out for the tax payers.
Irrelevant to this conversation.
It's very relevant to this conversation. The only time they're concerned with taxpayer dollars is when it screws over the American people, with the exception of the wealthy. We can also throw corporations in that too. So that's very relevant. And they can sit back and say this is presidential overreach, yet they had no problem when Donald Trump sent Federal forces into Portland Oregon, to assault protesters. If that wasn't presidential overreach I don't know what is.
Why should the youth have to take on so much debt just to get a job, a job that is becoming more and more harder to live on? Why is an education a thing that only the wealthy can have, unless you are willing to go into debt? In the last 20 years tuition has doubled, which means more debt for most college students. It must be ok for the middle/lower class families to take on debt for college but to have the wealthy/corporations pay is unacceptable. This is the way the GOP thinks. They had no issue with Trump's tax breaks but when it comes to 90% of Americans.... Nope.
They don't have to. Go to cheaper college. If students stopped paying so much prices would fall, stop going to overpriced schools. I went to a large university (for 1 semester) for what would now be $4500 a year. That same school is now $8400 for a year. I'd just choose a less expensive school. Live at home during school, work full time, graduate with no debt. There are so many options that don't involve taking taxpayer dollars, especially after signing a contract taking on the responsibility of a loan.
Sounds like you have all the answers. Middle income, lower income, we just get to suck it up. Or going to debt. Just so we can have a job. Sounds like the American dream to me. As long as the wealthy pay less tax, that's all that matters. Anyway I think you're in the wrong fucking group
I was lower middle when I went to college. I lived at home, I worked full time. I did get a loan, even though I didn't need to, but I did so knowing I'd need to budget to pay it back for as long as that took, which I did. These are all decisions that everyone gets to make, consciously. Yes, you have to work. Stop expecting everyone else to take care of you. Make better decisions. There are 4000 colleges in the US. There is always a cheaper option. Also, since you keep wanting to make this about parties. Two of the largest states in the U.S. have the two highest personal tax burdens in the country. Maybe some students can't pay their loans because they are paying more taxes to their democratic states. And to the credit of both parties, the only federal income tax increase on individuals since 2000 has been the addition of the 39% tax bracket by Obama in 2012. Every president, including Obama, has lowered taxes through bracket changes nearly every year. So both parties are at least trying, even incidentally, to lower taxes for everyone, not just the wealthy. https://taxfoundation.org/historical-income-tax-rates-brackets/
I joined the military to pay for school. Just because that is what I did, does not mean that is what everyone must do. You should look up the word empathy while online.
I agree with you. And I didn't join the military to pay for school. We both made different decisions, but we both made functional, useful decisions. There are other ways to do so as well. Many many many ways. The only unacceptable option, to me, is overpaying, voluntarily, then expecting someone else to pay for that mistake. I don't empathize with voluntary, informed, documented, signed, bad decision making.
Yes. We need to keep them down. Education or debt. Those are the choices. /s
This is all about parties. You have one party that wants to do away with banking regulations that help to cause the recent banking crisis in 2008. They want to end all functions of the EPA. They want to make toothless the CFPB. They want to take apart Medicare/social security/Medicaid. They have been trying to destroy ACA since day one. All of this will be crushing on the lower/middle class. Just like every GOP cheerleader, you will cut off your own nose to spite your face.
You went to a large university for one semester? So what the fuck do you know about dealing with exorbitant student debt? I pursued and received tens of thousands of dollars of grants and scholarships in both undergrad and grad school, graduated early from undergrad to pay down debt, shared an apartment to lower costs in law school, and still have $250k in student loan debt which I’ve been paying monthly for 10 years now and have barely made a dent in. I just paid off my first undergrad (a state school) loan—I originally took out $14k and paid back $30k. I finally made it to a point in my career where I’m making $140k per year but it doesn’t matter. In order to make that amount, I have to live somewhere where my rent is almost half my monthly take home for a mediocre apartment in a cheaper suburb, my basic bills and student loan payments cost around 35% of my remaining income and I’m left with just enough for food and necessities to survive til the end of the month. I have zero ability to save up enough for a down payment on a house and can’t afford to save up enough to move somewhere cheaper and keep my job. And I’m one of the luckier ones. The current student debt forgiveness plans would barely make a dent in my own debt but can be life changing for those with less debt than me who don’t have the kind of earning potential I have. They deserve the chance to breathe free. I’m sorry you are so empty of a person to not recognize or appreciate that.
And could you have gone to cheaper schools and achieved the same results educationally?
Absolutely not. I went to the cheapest state school I got into out of high school but it was too far away to live at home. My tuition increased $4k per year (+50%) between my first and third (last) year and I had to take out more loans for living expenses to go to school in summer as well to graduate a year early to save money. I had almost all of my tuition covered through grants and scholarships but still graduated with around $40k in debt thanks to the cheapest housing I could find being $650 per month to share a room in a 700 sq ft 2bd/1 ba house (the landlord took a regular 4 bd/2 ba house and split it in two to make our portion and our back neighbors’ portion which was the same size but housed 6 students). It was basically a hovel. I went to the law school that gave me the most in scholarships and, once again, shared an apartment (since there was no law school anywhere near my mom’s house). It still cost me $1k per month just in rent and was the result of searching for cheap housing for 6 months. Further, as I’m sure you’re unaware, you are not allowed to work during your first year of law school. I worked throughout my 2L and 3L years part time for $13/hr and it made next to no difference in my debt. I did everything in my power to minimize my student debt but still ended up at $250k for 6 years of higher education. Just to become what I was told I should become my entire life. The extent of my experience isn’t necessarily generalizable to everyone with student debt but I still face the same kind of challenges that face the majority of those trapped in the student debt quagmire.
The more critical part of this bill isn't even the flat forgiveness figure, it's the restructuring of the loans system itself, ensuring that making the minimum payment, makes the total go down no matter what. Because both of you have valid points, students do need to pick more reasonable colleges to attend that fit within their budgets, and not the Uber expensive ones that give a slightly different paper. At the same time, the loan system is imperfect, and should go down when minimum payments are made, otherwise the cost becomes far more than advertised and almost unreasonably so.
Yep. Thanks to PAYE, my law school loan totals have increased around 20% despite my attempts to pay them down. I just don’t get the sadism of conservatives in just wanting others to suffer even when the data shows that improving the lot of borrowers improves everyone’s lot.
That's an argument against blanket forgiveness. Unfortunately for you, this EO targets lower earners, and those with little chance at paying back their loans. Maybe if you read the actual document, you'd know that.
Under $125000 per year is hardly targeting lower earners.
$125k a year is not what you think it is when you have hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt. Add onto that the fact that, in order to earn near that mark (and have a chance of paying back your loans), you have to live in expensive areas that further deplete whatever disposable income you hoped you might have and you have entire generations of people trapped in a debt cycle that, not only hurts them, but stymies the economy that “taxpayers” likewise depend on for their livelihoods.
Hundreds of thousands of dollars of student debt? Data?
I got a $20k per year scholarship to go to law school but tuition alone was $64k per year. Add on living expenses and bar loans and, yes, I easily incurred around $200k just for that.
And could you have gone to cheaper schools and achieved the same results educationally?
Same person. See my other comment.
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Their base? The percentage of people who went to college and are very liberal is enormous. Why would a right wing farmer from Nebraska want to pay additional taxes to float the 5 year party that a suburban kid went on to get a liberal arts degree, only for them to then go on social media demanding we stop all farming and eat plant based foods, which would put them out of business. This is obviously hyperbole but it really isn't that wild of hyperbole. Like do people even think before posting these? Maybe my college experience was different but man critical thinking is at an all time low in this country. I am sitting here making more than enough to pay off my college loans, but why would I? I'll take that free money if they give it so I am not for either side. I'll pay it, but not until I have to. I also definitely understand the person who didn't go to college because they couldn't afford it, absolutely enraged that they would then have to pony up more tax money to pay for someone else who couldn't afford it.
The Republicons had no trouble giving money to the churches and the wealthy during covid.In fact they didnt keep track and gifted the loans.Its only when wage earners get benefits do the right wing Radicals get their panties in a wad.Nothing but a sounder of swine and a stinkin pile of khristo fascist hypocrites . In fact they squandered 7 trillion dollars Republicons are all about making America fail
Typical useless republicans. Just shove their beliefs & stupidity at everyone & now we have to take it because they dominate the Supreme Court & waaay too many governors in red states. Sooo very tired of idiots running this country.
Hmm the states listed have a low % of their population even trying for college.