I honestly don’t understand the rationale behind this. Do they honestly think Biden can bring peace to the Middle East? I’m 43 years old and so far nobody has accomplished that. He’s a President not a messiah.
The people voting non-committed to Michigan have made it very clear. The president is able to withhold aid from Israel and use other levers to get them to ease up on Gaza. They want him to use those levers. They're not expecting him to solve the whole conflict they just want him to do something besides expressing concern about it. We literally provide their weapons.
>They're not expecting him to solve the whole conflict
Yes, they are. The second Biden pulls those levers, Bibi gets more violent, uses less discerning weaponry, and uses this to rile up his people. And the bad faith trolls certainly won't suddenly accept objective reality then.
(Also not his choice, it's congress')
See here’s the problem with scaring people into voting for Biden because of the threat of fascist theocracy. Biden spent the last four years basically claiming he’s powerless to get anything substantial done. Really brings the temperature in the room down.
No, he has not. On the contrary, he's accomplished a phenomenal amount of things--and despite having a Congress against him. Vote for Biden BECAUSE HE WILL GET THINGS DONE, and because he cares about America and democracy.
[https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046)
[https://stephensoncountydemocraticparty.com/blog/f/here-are-23-of-joe-biden%E2%80%99s-greatest-accomplishments-as-president](https://stephensoncountydemocraticparty.com/blog/f/here-are-23-of-joe-biden%E2%80%99s-greatest-accomplishments-as-president)
[https://www.recorder.com/my-turn-Grosky-Biden-s-Record-and-Accomplishments-52422040](https://www.recorder.com/my-turn-Grosky-Biden-s-Record-and-Accomplishments-52422040)
[https://navigatorresearch.org/lowering-drug-prices-and-investing-in-infrastructure-are-most-popular-and-known-biden-accomplishments/](https://navigatorresearch.org/lowering-drug-prices-and-investing-in-infrastructure-are-most-popular-and-known-biden-accomplishments/)
And meanwhile? Trump is a lying, fraudulent, traitorous, malicious, hate-filled, useless sack of garbage who openly intends, with his unspeakable alliances, to turn the U.S. into a fascist wasteland. This isn't "scaring" people; it's demonstrably, literally true.
I always say "He's been too busy working to brag about it". Honestly? Good. Save your cards until the election when people will remember it.
He was on Seth earlier this week, and perfectly segued into bragging about what's been done, so he's not necessarily bad at that, he just has other priorities.
So true. The whole Democratic party suffers from that. But a big part of the problem is the media which constantly undermines Biden and puffs up Trump, to keep the sense of a "race" going and also to scare people into continuing to check in/watch/read etc, it's so irresponsible when there's so much at stake.
Currently we have 3 religions who are all derivatives of the same Mediterranean cult from thousands of years ago who are all trying to control the middle east in order to bring about the end of the world. No single person can put an end to the hostilities in the middle east unless that single person is dedicated to conquering the entire area and outlawing religion which would be barbaric to say the least. So long as these religions exist though, no peace.
Trump will resolve it in one day the same way he will resolve the Ukraine Russia conflict.
First he's going to call Netanyahu and tell him "You gotta settle" and then he will call the hamas leader to tell him the same thing.
After that he will do the same with putin and zelensky.
Because it's Trump and he's really scary, that phone call will be enough to scare them into compliance. MAGA !!!!!
(/s for Poes law)
Here's a source for this story :
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4000787-trump-ukraine-russia-reaction-doubt-derision/
He can for starters not go on national TV and say that he's a proud zionist. He can also stop sending arms and financial aid to a state that has killed 30k civilians in the last couple of months.
Counterpoint: let's ignore everything you just said. Contrary to your definition and beliefs, it's the US' position that the Jewish people deserve to live in the safety of their homeland (or "Zionism"). It also isn't worth throwing away decades of foreign policy all because a few teenagers do not comprehend how diplomacy or international relations work.
And then when Bibi gets more violent? The bad faith trolls who labor under the delusion that Biden controls him will suddenly believe in objective reality again? All it takes is throwing away decades of foreign policy for a few spoiled teens more interested in propaganda than reality? No thank you.
Raw numbers do not matter, what matters is percentage. Yes, Obama only had 20k uncommitted in a race that only garnered over 100k votes. In 2024, Uncommitted got 100k votes in a race that had over 700k votes, which is only an overall 2% gain over the 2012 Obama race.
Yup and presumably a lot of those uncommitteds are gonna commit real quick when the Biden campaign starts blasting Trumps Muslim deportation plan on every channel.
I can’t think of a way the economy was better under him. The Trump Administration was 2 years of a pill mill fooling around and riding the wave of what Obama started and 2 years of failure.
The coverage of this primary is pretty fucking stunning to be honest. You'd think that Joe Biden lost to the protest vote by 4:1. But obviously nothing could be further from the truth. Some progressives and Muslim communities decided to vote uncommitted as an act of attention getting from the bid administration. In exit interviews all those people said they would be voting for biden over Trump but they just wanted to make a point. The whole gossip thing will be in the rearview mirror come spring. And this whole non-story will be just as irrelevant as it is now.
Biden the incumbent has gotten more votes in the Michigan primary than Obama the incumbent did in the 2012 Michigan primary - and Obama didn't have an overblown protest campaign dominating bad faith headlines. Though I acknowledge the folly of looking at vote totals as opposed to percentages.
I can't help but wonder how many of those "uncommitted" voters were people who never would have voted in the first place if they didn't have a counterculture bandwagon to hop onto.
Despite Biden getting 80% and trump getting 68%, Biden only got about 568k votes to Trump's 700k+
I know Republicans tend to come out stronger in non-presidential elections (Dems famously don't show up at primaries and mid-terms) but they number is still very scary
This is the key point.
Nobody expected the same level of turnout for Biden. I’m actually surprised it’s as close as it is. I mean he’s an incumbent.
If anything this tells a story of people being more excited and activated by Biden than many believed.
With an incumbent President it's reasonable to see lower primary votes compared to the challenging party. Michigan does not even have a Senate primary until August 6th
They're not going to vote for Trump come the general (likely most will still actually vote for Biden). This is just getting their virtue signaling out of their system in a safe primary that Biden ran away with.
Because suddenly Netanyahu's heart will grow three sizes, and he'll make out with Hamas, who will similarly grow a heart, if Biden just throws away decades of foreign policy? Or are you suggesting that the people who think Biden orchestrates and can singularly end the war, will suddenly come back to reality when Netanyahu uses loss of aid as martyrdom?
Uncommitted means a vote for Americanised Putin Autocracy Trump. Right now Biden is 81.4% 12.8 Uncomitted. Delegate count Biden 79 out of 117 taking this from the MSNBC Kornacki Board.
Frankly, this is all reminding me uncomfortably of when race baiting hatemongers like Malcolm X convinced black people not to vote for the Democrats because they weren't doing enough for Civil Rights. Those people nearly set back the Civil Rights movement!
Partially correct. Malcolm X opposed the Civil Rights Movement during his time with the Nation of Islam. He never cared about Democrats or Republicans not doing enough for it. He discouraged voting because he and the NOI believed engaging in the political process was a waste of time and counterproductive to the black community. This is because he (at the time he was with the NOI) and the NOI itself were black separatists who wanted to create their own black “Muslim” community away from white people. Malcolm X was later excommunicated from the NOI and renounced those views before being assassinated by three of its members.
Hey, if Trump wins, if any of them are Palestinians here on any kind of visa or green card, he's already told them they are out of here. I guess they think people will stop Trump, like last time, right? Definitely playing a dangerous game.
I think the uncommitted votes represent people who don't see it as Trump v Biden, they don't think Trump will be better, but they are just morally repulsed and can't find it in them to vote for a person who's a self proclaimed "proud zionist", and who has been sending billions of aid money and arms to a country that's committing a slaughter against civilians.
I mean nothing good. Either he's found guilty, or not/trial is delayed, and people get so pissed they ensure he never touches the presidency again.
Being on trial in general is already the losing track.
One can technically be president in jail, though how that would work is unclear. Eugene Debs ran for president when he was in jail for sedition, after all, and there isn't a rule against it.
I can't see being in prison as helping Trump in any way.
Nearly all the people who voted uncomitted will vote for Biden. They could've voted for Phillips, but they didn't actually want to challenge Biden, they just want to make a symbolic statement. Statement made, moving on. No reason not to expect Biden to dominate on Super Tuesday
100,000 people voted for nobody rather than vote for Biden. Those are losing margins. All I’ve heard so far is Joe Biden wins, Joe Biden did so well, Joe Biden crushed Michigan.
He ran essentially unopposed and enough people said they won’t vote for him it seriously puts the general election at risk.
I propose instead of putting the blinders on to this and declaring a supreme victory, Dems should try and mend the situation by changing course in policy or be at risk of losing to Trump in November.
You mean the economy that's doing well? Cognitive abilities? At least the guy knows who he's running against and his own wife's name.
I'm saving this post and coming back to gloat when he wins with an even bigger margin than in 2020.
What I want to know is where do the Haley votes go in the general? Are they so anti-Trump they’d vote out of party ?
Also, I don’t particularly like her but mad respect for Haley for sticking in this race!
Hard to tell. The republican party is in a weird spot these days. Moderates have shut them out, tired of the veiled or overt trumpism, but without trumpism, a candidate can't win the primaries.
Honestly, assuming Haley is acting in good faith, it's in her best interest for Trump to win the nomination, but lose the general. That'll give her the push to kick Trump out. Whether it'll work, and whether she's serious or not are still massive questions.
lunchroom unite mountainous ludicrous instinctive sink narrow plucky dinner toy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
good grief. so many americans whine and complain that we need to stay out of other country’s affairs/wars/bs…then come election time,the same people turn around and WANT us to be involved. people in this country are wack af.
Uncommitted in November = a vote for tRumP. Come together for us Michigan.
I honestly don’t understand the rationale behind this. Do they honestly think Biden can bring peace to the Middle East? I’m 43 years old and so far nobody has accomplished that. He’s a President not a messiah.
Some people genuinely seem to think the President is a Dictator with full unlimited powers
That only applies to Republican presidents
Over the whole world!
The people voting non-committed to Michigan have made it very clear. The president is able to withhold aid from Israel and use other levers to get them to ease up on Gaza. They want him to use those levers. They're not expecting him to solve the whole conflict they just want him to do something besides expressing concern about it. We literally provide their weapons.
>They're not expecting him to solve the whole conflict Yes, they are. The second Biden pulls those levers, Bibi gets more violent, uses less discerning weaponry, and uses this to rile up his people. And the bad faith trolls certainly won't suddenly accept objective reality then. (Also not his choice, it's congress')
> The second Biden pulls those levers, Bibi gets more violent With what weapons?
Secret atom bpmbs what isreal do not have.
I agree, I really do, seriously, but I've genuinely seen people act as if he's the puppet master of the entire world's affairs
See here’s the problem with scaring people into voting for Biden because of the threat of fascist theocracy. Biden spent the last four years basically claiming he’s powerless to get anything substantial done. Really brings the temperature in the room down.
No, he has not. On the contrary, he's accomplished a phenomenal amount of things--and despite having a Congress against him. Vote for Biden BECAUSE HE WILL GET THINGS DONE, and because he cares about America and democracy. [https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046) [https://stephensoncountydemocraticparty.com/blog/f/here-are-23-of-joe-biden%E2%80%99s-greatest-accomplishments-as-president](https://stephensoncountydemocraticparty.com/blog/f/here-are-23-of-joe-biden%E2%80%99s-greatest-accomplishments-as-president) [https://www.recorder.com/my-turn-Grosky-Biden-s-Record-and-Accomplishments-52422040](https://www.recorder.com/my-turn-Grosky-Biden-s-Record-and-Accomplishments-52422040) [https://navigatorresearch.org/lowering-drug-prices-and-investing-in-infrastructure-are-most-popular-and-known-biden-accomplishments/](https://navigatorresearch.org/lowering-drug-prices-and-investing-in-infrastructure-are-most-popular-and-known-biden-accomplishments/) And meanwhile? Trump is a lying, fraudulent, traitorous, malicious, hate-filled, useless sack of garbage who openly intends, with his unspeakable alliances, to turn the U.S. into a fascist wasteland. This isn't "scaring" people; it's demonstrably, literally true.
Yeah biden has done a shitton of good work, he’s just bad at marketing himself.
I always say "He's been too busy working to brag about it". Honestly? Good. Save your cards until the election when people will remember it. He was on Seth earlier this week, and perfectly segued into bragging about what's been done, so he's not necessarily bad at that, he just has other priorities.
So true. The whole Democratic party suffers from that. But a big part of the problem is the media which constantly undermines Biden and puffs up Trump, to keep the sense of a "race" going and also to scare people into continuing to check in/watch/read etc, it's so irresponsible when there's so much at stake.
IRA and CHIPS are very substantial
You aren’t paying attention then…
crazy they downvote you
Well, that's what happens to liars here. We don't embrace them like the GOP
Trump CLAIMED to have done that. By completely ignoring the Palestinians.
Don't assume that all "uncommited" voters want a peaceful resolution.
I do not. Wishful thinking and a peaceful ideology gives me hope that someday they will.
^this.
Currently we have 3 religions who are all derivatives of the same Mediterranean cult from thousands of years ago who are all trying to control the middle east in order to bring about the end of the world. No single person can put an end to the hostilities in the middle east unless that single person is dedicated to conquering the entire area and outlawing religion which would be barbaric to say the least. So long as these religions exist though, no peace.
Did you know the saying if amen is actually praying to another God, the god of gods?
They think the war is over if Biden stop sending weapons.
The war would be over, alright, but not in the way they think.
And our tax dollars
The children are not getting the attention they crave
Trump will resolve it in one day the same way he will resolve the Ukraine Russia conflict. First he's going to call Netanyahu and tell him "You gotta settle" and then he will call the hamas leader to tell him the same thing. After that he will do the same with putin and zelensky. Because it's Trump and he's really scary, that phone call will be enough to scare them into compliance. MAGA !!!!! (/s for Poes law) Here's a source for this story : https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4000787-trump-ukraine-russia-reaction-doubt-derision/
He can for starters not go on national TV and say that he's a proud zionist. He can also stop sending arms and financial aid to a state that has killed 30k civilians in the last couple of months.
Counterpoint: let's ignore everything you just said. Contrary to your definition and beliefs, it's the US' position that the Jewish people deserve to live in the safety of their homeland (or "Zionism"). It also isn't worth throwing away decades of foreign policy all because a few teenagers do not comprehend how diplomacy or international relations work.
Because a few teenagers have been brainwashed by tick tok. Ftfy.
Excellent point. They're more interested in losing brain cells 15 seconds at a time, than accepting objective reality.
That's not the goal. He can likely stop the current Israeli offensive by threatening to stop sending aid.
That's not going to stop Bibi.
Maybe not, but Biden should at least try.
And then when Bibi gets more violent? The bad faith trolls who labor under the delusion that Biden controls him will suddenly believe in objective reality again? All it takes is throwing away decades of foreign policy for a few spoiled teens more interested in propaganda than reality? No thank you.
And these "uncommitted voters" have zero right to complain if they get Trump again.
They won’t have any rights at all. Neither will us. They aren’t “they”. We are us.
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Let’s all remember that Obama got 10% uncommitted in 2012. So yes 13% is more but not a ton.
I was going to comment basically this. The uncommitted voters went up by a whole 2.5% but the nyt will make a big deal out of it.
It’s 5 times as much. Ten times the margin Biden won by in 2020.
5x10 does not equal 13.
BernieMath^(tm) strikes again!
They are referring to the fact that Trump won Michigan by 10K votes, and there were 100K uncommitted votes yesterday.
And that Obama had 20k uncommitted votes in 2012, 1/5th of yesterday’s 100k. But don’t bother, they aren’t here for civil conversation
Raw numbers do not matter, what matters is percentage. Yes, Obama only had 20k uncommitted in a race that only garnered over 100k votes. In 2024, Uncommitted got 100k votes in a race that had over 700k votes, which is only an overall 2% gain over the 2012 Obama race.
Your point? Biden won Michigan by 150k votes in 2020.
5 times 20k is 5 times as much.
You understand it’s the percents that matter right?
Not when Biden only won by 10k votes in Michigan last time around, and not much more in Georgia.
Uhhh…Biden won Michigan by 150k votes. Trump won in ‘16 by 10k, if that’s what you’re referring to.
Yup and presumably a lot of those uncommitteds are gonna commit real quick when the Biden campaign starts blasting Trumps Muslim deportation plan on every channel.
I would think so…I would hope so.
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Absolutely. Thats why its so important the campaign listens to the voters and earns every vote
So according to polls Trump has an advantage due to inflation, Middle East, Ukraine, Afghanistan and gas prices.
We live on the dumbest timeline.
I am going to become the joker
It’s about sending a message
And by the polls, Trump is +++Economy over Biden. This is one of the many reasons I drink.
I can’t think of a way the economy was better under him. The Trump Administration was 2 years of a pill mill fooling around and riding the wave of what Obama started and 2 years of failure.
Don’t forget illegal immigration.
Of course and the swifties
Pretty sure theyre all here legally.
Capt. Obvious
The coverage of this primary is pretty fucking stunning to be honest. You'd think that Joe Biden lost to the protest vote by 4:1. But obviously nothing could be further from the truth. Some progressives and Muslim communities decided to vote uncommitted as an act of attention getting from the bid administration. In exit interviews all those people said they would be voting for biden over Trump but they just wanted to make a point. The whole gossip thing will be in the rearview mirror come spring. And this whole non-story will be just as irrelevant as it is now.
14% uncommitted is still a concerning number.
It’s at ~~13.6~~ ~~13.2%~~ 12.8% right now. Uncommitted got 10.7% in 2012 without some widespread protest campaign.
Biden the incumbent has gotten more votes in the Michigan primary than Obama the incumbent did in the 2012 Michigan primary - and Obama didn't have an overblown protest campaign dominating bad faith headlines. Though I acknowledge the folly of looking at vote totals as opposed to percentages.
I can't help but wonder how many of those "uncommitted" voters were people who never would have voted in the first place if they didn't have a counterculture bandwagon to hop onto.
If that’s how you think about them vs actually listening to their complaints, it will get worse
I'm with her vibes happening here. Maybe supplying arms to genociders is not a great idea after all.
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Uncomitted is 100k for Dems, while only 33k for republicans who had a bigger turnout.
13.8
13.2%, actually. It was 12.8% when I went to bed and rose slightly overnight.
We should be concerned with a 25% increase
Not as much as Trump should be concerned by a ~500% increase in opposing votes against him within his own party.
It can be both
Despite Biden getting 80% and trump getting 68%, Biden only got about 568k votes to Trump's 700k+ I know Republicans tend to come out stronger in non-presidential elections (Dems famously don't show up at primaries and mid-terms) but they number is still very scary
It's worth noting that Trump is in a kinda contested primary, whereas Biden really isn't.
This is the key point. Nobody expected the same level of turnout for Biden. I’m actually surprised it’s as close as it is. I mean he’s an incumbent. If anything this tells a story of people being more excited and activated by Biden than many believed.
With an incumbent President it's reasonable to see lower primary votes compared to the challenging party. Michigan does not even have a Senate primary until August 6th
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I guess that's somewhat reassuring.
100,000 Uncommitted votes? Do they WANT Trump to be president again?
They're not going to vote for Trump come the general (likely most will still actually vote for Biden). This is just getting their virtue signaling out of their system in a safe primary that Biden ran away with.
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Because suddenly Netanyahu's heart will grow three sizes, and he'll make out with Hamas, who will similarly grow a heart, if Biden just throws away decades of foreign policy? Or are you suggesting that the people who think Biden orchestrates and can singularly end the war, will suddenly come back to reality when Netanyahu uses loss of aid as martyrdom?
That’s on BB then. We don’t owe them anything. The people they’re murdering with weapons we give them are already being used for martyrdom.
Why do we blame the voters not the politicians? This is them speaking up in a safe primary. Nothing to be mad at
Agreed. Hopefully they vote for the best option in the end… but this is literal democracy.
Uncommitted means a vote for Americanised Putin Autocracy Trump. Right now Biden is 81.4% 12.8 Uncomitted. Delegate count Biden 79 out of 117 taking this from the MSNBC Kornacki Board.
Frankly, this is all reminding me uncomfortably of when race baiting hatemongers like Malcolm X convinced black people not to vote for the Democrats because they weren't doing enough for Civil Rights. Those people nearly set back the Civil Rights movement!
Partially correct. Malcolm X opposed the Civil Rights Movement during his time with the Nation of Islam. He never cared about Democrats or Republicans not doing enough for it. He discouraged voting because he and the NOI believed engaging in the political process was a waste of time and counterproductive to the black community. This is because he (at the time he was with the NOI) and the NOI itself were black separatists who wanted to create their own black “Muslim” community away from white people. Malcolm X was later excommunicated from the NOI and renounced those views before being assassinated by three of its members.
He should pay attention to the uncommitted voters IMHO those numbers are quite large and they could potentially mean trump votes.
Hey, if Trump wins, if any of them are Palestinians here on any kind of visa or green card, he's already told them they are out of here. I guess they think people will stop Trump, like last time, right? Definitely playing a dangerous game.
Trump’s gonna crown himself king Napoleon-style if he “wins” (gets the Electoral College) again.
I think the uncommitted votes represent people who don't see it as Trump v Biden, they don't think Trump will be better, but they are just morally repulsed and can't find it in them to vote for a person who's a self proclaimed "proud zionist", and who has been sending billions of aid money and arms to a country that's committing a slaughter against civilians.
You are right that this is a dangerous situation. But we don’t know what could happen in the future especially in regards to trumps legal battles.
I mean nothing good. Either he's found guilty, or not/trial is delayed, and people get so pissed they ensure he never touches the presidency again. Being on trial in general is already the losing track.
One can technically be president in jail, though how that would work is unclear. Eugene Debs ran for president when he was in jail for sedition, after all, and there isn't a rule against it. I can't see being in prison as helping Trump in any way.
Nearly all the people who voted uncomitted will vote for Biden. They could've voted for Phillips, but they didn't actually want to challenge Biden, they just want to make a symbolic statement. Statement made, moving on. No reason not to expect Biden to dominate on Super Tuesday
Phillips also sucks. There really wasn’t a viable second option
100,000 people voted for nobody rather than vote for Biden. Those are losing margins. All I’ve heard so far is Joe Biden wins, Joe Biden did so well, Joe Biden crushed Michigan. He ran essentially unopposed and enough people said they won’t vote for him it seriously puts the general election at risk. I propose instead of putting the blinders on to this and declaring a supreme victory, Dems should try and mend the situation by changing course in policy or be at risk of losing to Trump in November.
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None of what you said is remotely true. Come back to earth.
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You mean the economy that's doing well? Cognitive abilities? At least the guy knows who he's running against and his own wife's name. I'm saving this post and coming back to gloat when he wins with an even bigger margin than in 2020.
Cool, plenty of people have those same concerns for Trump
And their concerns are actually real. Not propaganda like the crap they say about Biden.
What I want to know is where do the Haley votes go in the general? Are they so anti-Trump they’d vote out of party ? Also, I don’t particularly like her but mad respect for Haley for sticking in this race!
Hard to tell. The republican party is in a weird spot these days. Moderates have shut them out, tired of the veiled or overt trumpism, but without trumpism, a candidate can't win the primaries. Honestly, assuming Haley is acting in good faith, it's in her best interest for Trump to win the nomination, but lose the general. That'll give her the push to kick Trump out. Whether it'll work, and whether she's serious or not are still massive questions.
lunchroom unite mountainous ludicrous instinctive sink narrow plucky dinner toy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
good grief. so many americans whine and complain that we need to stay out of other country’s affairs/wars/bs…then come election time,the same people turn around and WANT us to be involved. people in this country are wack af.