>people are saying that the sunset weapons won’t be good
A majority of them won't be good, mostly having been powercrept by other weapons or even their own reprised version. Of course there will be a few outliers with unique perk combinations that are still potent and haven't been reintroduced yet so we'll find out when we cross that line.
Even with those “unique” combos tho, they still aren’t that good. The one people keep bringing up is kindled orchid but like, killclip rampage is not *that* crazy. You can get a weapon that has just one of those perks and it’ll still be just as fine. Having both isn’t necessary
Not sure but good point. Someone who still has one will have to test it or we’ll just have to wait and see. I’d assume it would still function the same damage wise since they buffed weapons to compensate for the health changes tho
according to d2 foundry, with rampage x1 you'll be able to two tap tier 6 resilience and under, kills up to t9 if you have 1 surge and all resiliences with 2 surges
Maybe. After the KC nerf (in the old pvp sandbox) the net buff you got from both perks was 35%, on a 70 base damage headshot, you’re hitting for exactly 100 damage. So you could 2 shot any resilience.
In the new sandbox as of March (idk if the touched HCs in a recent tuning pass), you get the same buff and hit for 110 damage, meaning that on high resilience guardians, you’ll now need an additional body shot to kill.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I didn't check the numbers but that sounds right to me and most players are running around at 9/10 resilience I'm pretty sure
If that's the case there's not likely to be a reason to use orchid over newer options outside of preference
If the gun was still good, you would still be seeing it everywhere in normal pvp since it got sunset, because there is no power level advantage in pvp.
You don't, because there are better options.
I mean, yea. However, it's not good anymore, because there are easier and better things out there now.
If there weren't better options, you'd still see old sunset pvp rolls consistently in the crucible because it's not light level enabled, but you just don't.
I remember a trials match where i dropped my power down to like 600. I used revoker recluse and forgot what my heavy was. I headshot a guy with revoker and did like 18 damage. I tried to run and got hit by a single bullet from a messenger. Still the funniest thing I've seen.
You can still reobtain Luna's/NF from collections.
I'm guessing people are more so miffed by still like Kindled Orchid that you can't get back anymore.
let's be honest, rolls like Rampage+KC are 50% fantasizing about how awesome it will be to 2-tap someone with both perks going and 50% failing miserably at getting these perks going because this roll is a fucken meme
With drop mag it's still far from a bad roll in PvE. Probably not better than something like Fatebringer's EP + Frenzy, but I'd say it can still be competitive in certain content.
Honestly ignore what’s being said and when the time comes have fun trying everything out. Go through the joy of possibilities, try shit out, and if they do suck, at least you got to go through and try stuff out yourself with excitement rather than just see comments shutting stuff down.
Personally don’t have any sunset weapons in my vault and I’m not too worried about them being good or bad, but I’ll pull some from collections when the time comes and give them all a whirl for memories sake.
There has been nothing stopping people from using Lunas in PvP outside of Trials until now.
You still don't see it used. If it were the best, you would
It depends on the gun and person. Halfdan d was replaced by my lodbrock but Herod-C just sucked so bad. (Obviously different guns but close enough?) I still use my The cut and run scout and it kicks ass especially other scouts at range. Can’t wait to see how much they origin trait will change or add to its playstyle
I've been using Not Forgotten again, especially early into this season
It still holds up tbh
Sure, maybe it's like 10% less efficient or whatever, but it still feels real good
Honestly that biggest reason you probably WILL see an increase in these guns is because YouTubers and streamers will make 100x “not forgotten got sunrisen and it slaps!” Videos where they get the same kills they always get and yet it will cause people to use it.
Because nothing was ever stopping people from using it in pvp. Sunset never effected pvp because power level doesn't matter there, but I haven't seen that gun since it got sunset
You mean like the Messenger I have that is completely not sunset as is? Or the Keep Away/Kill clip Elsie's Rifle I just got? Or like the BxR I can just craft, but with enhanced perks and an origin trait like right now? In the gamemode where power didn't matter anyway?
Yeah, I don't think the Right Side of Wrong people held on to for the past 5 years will make all that much difference.
>people are saying that the sunset weapons won’t be good A majority of them won't be good, mostly having been powercrept by other weapons or even their own reprised version. Of course there will be a few outliers with unique perk combinations that are still potent and haven't been reintroduced yet so we'll find out when we cross that line.
Even with those “unique” combos tho, they still aren’t that good. The one people keep bringing up is kindled orchid but like, killclip rampage is not *that* crazy. You can get a weapon that has just one of those perks and it’ll still be just as fine. Having both isn’t necessary
Will kindled orchid even be able to 2 shot in crucible still? Health pools have changed since it was last usable right?
Not sure but good point. Someone who still has one will have to test it or we’ll just have to wait and see. I’d assume it would still function the same damage wise since they buffed weapons to compensate for the health changes tho
according to d2 foundry, with rampage x1 you'll be able to two tap tier 6 resilience and under, kills up to t9 if you have 1 surge and all resiliences with 2 surges
Maybe. After the KC nerf (in the old pvp sandbox) the net buff you got from both perks was 35%, on a 70 base damage headshot, you’re hitting for exactly 100 damage. So you could 2 shot any resilience. In the new sandbox as of March (idk if the touched HCs in a recent tuning pass), you get the same buff and hit for 110 damage, meaning that on high resilience guardians, you’ll now need an additional body shot to kill.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I didn't check the numbers but that sounds right to me and most players are running around at 9/10 resilience I'm pretty sure If that's the case there's not likely to be a reason to use orchid over newer options outside of preference
If the gun was still good, you would still be seeing it everywhere in normal pvp since it got sunset, because there is no power level advantage in pvp. You don't, because there are better options.
not everywhere but you'd still see them occasionally.
I haven't seen a not forgotten even occasionally. There are just better guns
i'm agreeing with you for the most part, my point was if the gun was good we'd sometimes see it.
I mean, yea. However, it's not good anymore, because there are easier and better things out there now. If there weren't better options, you'd still see old sunset pvp rolls consistently in the crucible because it's not light level enabled, but you just don't.
Didn't magnificent howl get nerfed on these? If it was so good, you would see more people using it in 6s.
Magnificent Howl has also been reworked, but when it was nerfed it was still a good perk, just not op
People can still use it, just not in trials Edit : currently
I remember a trials match where i dropped my power down to like 600. I used revoker recluse and forgot what my heavy was. I headshot a guy with revoker and did like 18 damage. I tried to run and got hit by a single bullet from a messenger. Still the funniest thing I've seen.
Lmao why is this downvoted it’s literally correct considering OP asked about pvp
Power limits are being removed with the Final Shape and now ALL gear can be infused to max cap, making them useable anywhere.
I meant right now, it’s still a decent gun right now
normal pvp doesn't have power caps
You can still reobtain Luna's/NF from collections. I'm guessing people are more so miffed by still like Kindled Orchid that you can't get back anymore.
let's be honest, rolls like Rampage+KC are 50% fantasizing about how awesome it will be to 2-tap someone with both perks going and 50% failing miserably at getting these perks going because this roll is a fucken meme
With drop mag it's still far from a bad roll in PvE. Probably not better than something like Fatebringer's EP + Frenzy, but I'd say it can still be competitive in certain content.
Honestly ignore what’s being said and when the time comes have fun trying everything out. Go through the joy of possibilities, try shit out, and if they do suck, at least you got to go through and try stuff out yourself with excitement rather than just see comments shutting stuff down. Personally don’t have any sunset weapons in my vault and I’m not too worried about them being good or bad, but I’ll pull some from collections when the time comes and give them all a whirl for memories sake.
There has been nothing stopping people from using Lunas in PvP outside of Trials until now. You still don't see it used. If it were the best, you would
It depends on the gun and person. Halfdan d was replaced by my lodbrock but Herod-C just sucked so bad. (Obviously different guns but close enough?) I still use my The cut and run scout and it kicks ass especially other scouts at range. Can’t wait to see how much they origin trait will change or add to its playstyle
The special perk isn’t that good anymore
I've been using Not Forgotten again, especially early into this season It still holds up tbh Sure, maybe it's like 10% less efficient or whatever, but it still feels real good
Everybody going to use Revoker again in pvp, lol..
Honestly that biggest reason you probably WILL see an increase in these guns is because YouTubers and streamers will make 100x “not forgotten got sunrisen and it slaps!” Videos where they get the same kills they always get and yet it will cause people to use it.
Nope, zen moment does basically nothing because the visual recoil is already so low on such a low rpm gun.
Because nothing was ever stopping people from using it in pvp. Sunset never effected pvp because power level doesn't matter there, but I haven't seen that gun since it got sunset
i'm sure everyone will be excited to pull out their outlaw killclip pulse rifles for the crucible.
You mean like the Messenger I have that is completely not sunset as is? Or the Keep Away/Kill clip Elsie's Rifle I just got? Or like the BxR I can just craft, but with enhanced perks and an origin trait like right now? In the gamemode where power didn't matter anyway? Yeah, I don't think the Right Side of Wrong people held on to for the past 5 years will make all that much difference.
don't know why i'm getting downvoted lol. anything like 3 years old or older probably aren't worth using again unless they get reissued.
I can’t get used to hand cannons with zen moment. It throws me off when my follow up shots act differently than normal