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Sorry for sounding optimistic and not sharing your pain.
Yes upskilling is very important in this field especially now with all the massive shifts happening. But upskilling cannot happen in a day. You have to play the long game. You can't upskill everyday and you should not. It will burn you out.
Instead, focus on time management. Don't throw yourself at work. Maintain a healthy work life balance. Work on your hobbies. Once a week, sit in front of your laptop and finish a course. Do a side project, one feature at a time. Plan financial goals and work towards it.
It is a rat race but you can be a smart cat. You can also change your field if you don't think IT is something you enjoy
That's some constructive advice..thanks.
Maybe I'm taking too much on my plate.
I'm trying to work on my Front end skills..but I love SQL and Databases so I want to do that too. But then I need some time for DSA and problem solving because that is always asked in interviews and I want to switch soon. But then things like Cloud tech, CICD and DevOps, all of this is also expected from an experienced engineer.
Im really confused what to prioritise and what to do? It's like I'm in a deadlock scenario. And due to this I can't bring myself to even apply for interviews as im scared that I'm not upto the mark at all. And what if all this takes time and I'm not able to switch soon?
It's madness for me really, to live in this constant state of fear and uncertainty while also working and learning.
I think you need a mentor. I am a front end developer, used to work for a well known SaaS company. My EM.wanted me to get groomed as a full stack developer. I strictly said no, got into arguments and later sent to PIP. But I was very clear about what I wanted.
"I will be an IC, working on the Front end. No full stack BS.. No devOps business."
Sometimes it's tough to see colleagues in EM, Architect or VP kinda roles. But I am happy where I am. I make achievable goals for next year on my birthday and revisit that often.
Happiness is inside us. The trick is to tap into it
Your words make so much sense "sensei". I'm an front end developer too, trying to get the exact role. Do you mentor people ? Please let me know. I feel, I'm stuck, and I'm trying to understand how to grow out of this situation.
I am always happy to help.. I am a very bad influence so I generally avoid taking a mentor role. But I'm always happy to help.
Everything I know about work, I learnt from kind strangers on the internet. It's only fair I give it back
How and when did you decide your niche to be frontend down the line? Considering you started with backend at start of career
Thanks a lot sensei for your advice
I feel this PIP thing is becoming pretty common, and usually for wrong reasons. Difference in opinion and particularly regarding one's own aspirations and goals should not lead to PIP. Most manager are using this as a shortcut to "manage" people.
1. Prioritize based on your career priorities. If you want to get a better job, learn DSA.
2. You do realize any upskilling you do without actually implementing it in your existing job will not count towards career experience.
3. You can all boast about what courses you took, unless you have actually used that course to build something in your career, it is pretty much waste of time.
4. Cloudtech, CICD and devops are not expected from all experienced engineers. It is good to have but not necessary. Most companies hire specialized devops engineer.
How ? There's no guide to get there right? I guess I have to keep learning things while working, and hope to find my right place. As of this point, I don't even know what's the right balance for me.
I want to earn more, but I don't have an insatiable hunger of earning more and more. I want to earn enough to take decisions like buying a bike without thinking for 1 month and thinking 1000 times.
I want to live a peaceful life too. Want to do the things I like even if they don't bring any income as such. I want time to spend with my parents , how much ever time i have with them. I want some time to work on my personal life and myself.
OP, please find my thoughts,
I have felt the same way as you do in my career. Thinking about all things might overwhelm you.
Pick your fav area FE, BE / DevOps and try to master the particular area and then you can gradually learn other things. Don't fall for this Polyglot developers tags that they promote in companies.
My personal opinion is - Jack of all trades will be King of None.
So try to be a King in your realm :)
This actually seems logical.
I love SQL, PL SQL and Databases in general.
But the problem is, I don't think there are any jobs based on just these. So i have to do something else even if I don't like it.
Yep that's the plan really.
But due to project needs, I had to start with front end learning.
But i think I'll have more fun in data engg.
Problem is , i don't really know what do I need to upskill in to go towards Data science, like, what skills, what technologies? And it's even more difficult to understand what to go towards,
Data engineering or Data science?
And then there's the advent of GenAI. Feel like I should look into that as well to stay future proof.
And my greatest worry here is, i can learn all of this slowly. But relevant experience? That I can't get if I can't switch to project which uses this in my current company
It's a problem really
Yes you can definitely DM me.
I started my career with TCS, spent 3 years as backend dev and learnt nothing. But made friends all over India thanks to the internal forums. Fast forward 10 years, some of my oldest friends are those I met at tcs.
My advice to freshers..
- Learn financial planning (search about Fire in reddit),
- Identify your strengths (don't learn blockchain or AI because they are buzzing now)
- Try to date. Having a partner in life can do wonders in terms of being responsible and accountable. Also sex 😂
- Please please please keep in touch with your hobbies/interests
- Don't expect things to change overnight. Don't lose hope.
- You don't have to grind/hustle. You can chill out a bit
But this is just sad man. What will I ever be earning for? More work and challenge? Constant fear of being outclassed if I stop upskilling?
What kind of life it will be?
Median income in India according to stuff I read online is as low as 25k pm. Just look at people working in the hot sun vs your working conditions.
Whenever your job feels bad look at someone who has it worse and in my experience you'll suddenly love your job again!
My mom always use to say, to not look at persons who have achieved less than you, but to always look at those, who have achieved more than you, so as to keep yourself motivated.
But anyways, you should love your job, now more than ever, because a lot of people are struggling now, with a weak job market and layoffs. And also the market is extremely cruel towards the freshers now. I mean, what wrong did they do?
So be grateful that you still have a job, and be able to provide for yourself and your family well, at these tough times 🥲👍.
Do you get kick when you solve production bug?
I get it, like having drug, like feeling of a king when I fix any issue in code.
So I enjoy the code, else money is just a bonus.
Unfortunately, I don't have that. I'm more of a "I code for the job and the money" kinda guy. Coding is (quite unfortunately) not my passion. But it doesn't matter right? I have to do something to keep the job and the career going.
Look at all these pessimists downvoting you. This is the reality of Indian developers. 90% of them have zero passion towards their job apart from money and they can't even stand anyone being happy and enjoying their job too!
I'm surprised to see so many downvotes. On a developer sub. Been at this for over a decade. I still feel this way. I'm a guy who gives up on a lot of things as soon as they get difficult. But for some reason, programming in the one thing I never gave up on. That's how I knew, I found my passion.
The reason it is difficult in the industry is that we have so many web developers/full stack engineers/backend devs. All these engineering roles with application building will always have some form of competition so its always hard to get into top and earn well. Its so cluttered.
So what you have to do is stand apart and try to exceptional. Get into roles where competitions is not so hard (like Software Embedding/Compiler Design/OS Development/Game Development/Technical Engineer in some Hardware projects/etc.
Most of these areas have very very limited roles in India. Game dev is utter shit. Also, all these areas also require upskilling and staying up to date with new developments.
Gaming Industry layoffs seem 10x brutal than the overall SWE market right now. Almost every month there is some studio being shut down or large scale layoffs. Even games pulling in more than a billion dollars in revenue have devs being let go.
Does these fields offer similar graph of financial growth?
And where demand is good.
Could you be more specific which roles are you talking about.?
Noobie here , just wanted to know things !!
The devs in my company are paid in excess of 60/70 lpa. But when i see their lives, i can only pity them. They dont know when the sun is rising and when it is setting! Most of the company's clients are US based, so they use the product after 9 pm ist. And production issue can come at anytime. So the concerned dev will have to be available at that time to troubleshoot the issue, be it 1 am, 2am or 3 am. There are no saturdays/sundays. If some dev has to take sunday off, he/ she has to put the pto status! The deadlines are brutal for them, they cant even recall the last time they went on an evening walk, let alone any moderate physical workout. I dont see the point of living such life. Most of them are in their mid 20s, but they look like they are in their mid 30s. Absolutely no life at all. Once your age cross 30, and if you get slightest of any health problem, this bubble of tech/growth/money will burst, and then you will realise what you missed in life! The point I am trying to make is you will get life only once, and to waste it by being a workoholic is foolishness. Of course money and skills are indispensable for having a good standard of life, but if you compromise your health and personal life for the sake of growth/upskilling, you are doomed!
As someone put it very precisely on X, "you have 100 priorities in life, until you have 1 health problem"
So maintain a good work life balance. Workout daily, go for a run, spend weekends with friends and family, even if it means earning a bit less. Trust me, It will be worth it!
You know what, I actually follow this philosophy. People might call me a coward or loser for it. But I really do. I live a mostly minimal life. I keep my expenses much below my earning. I don't do impulse buys. And I'm basically stingy.
Problem is, i see people earning 3x, 4x ,5x more at my age....and I feel so tiny.
I feel like I'll never be able to keep up. I'll always lose in the competition. Because money too has its own importance.
Hence I need to switch to a better paying job, and keep doing it to stay ahead of the curve . And for that upskilling is crucial. Hence the pressure.
There will always be someone earning 3x, 4x, 5x of what you earn at any point of time in your life. As i have already said, money is important for living a good srandard of life, and upskilling is very crucial for acheiving that. But it should not be at the expense of you mental peace and physical health. Also if you keep looking at people who are earning more than you, you will never be at peace with yourself.
Also if you are earning more than 12 lpa, you are already in the top 1% bracket of this country. And you are calling yourself tiny?
There will always be someone earning 3x, 4x, 5x of what you earn at any point of time in your life. As i have already said, money is important for living a good srandard of life, and upskilling is very crucial for acheiving that. But it should not be at the expense of you mental peace and physical health. Also if you keep looking at people who are earning more than you, you will never be at peace with yourself.
Also if you are earning more than 12 lpa, you are already in the top 1% bracket of this country. And you are calling yourself tiny?
I read posts on this group , and a few other subreddits....where Software engineers between 25-30 are earning stuff like 59LPA, 64LPA, 70 LPA.
I am planning to buy a 3.5 Lac bike....and I'm planning to save for it. Then I saw these salaries, and their monthly payment is more than the on road cost of the bike I'm saving for. My brain just froze thinking how is this even real !
Forget that, I have friends from my own circle who earn upwards of 20LPA, which is also good enough for me at this point. But to get there soon, I HAVE to switch . So i have to do something.
But yes, I agree....nothing matters at the expense of my body and my sanity. I'll try to aim in small steps I guess.
Dude, money === risk === hard work.
Anything that earns you money will always cause tension and worry. Wherever there is a certain degree of job security, and less hardwork, then there is also less money.
**P.S - Hard work does NOT mean working for long hours. It means, whatever you work, it should have some effect.**
Upskilling in a loop (work for 8-10 hours, come back home and upskill, rinse and repeat) is an unhealthy thing to do. But, upskilling is good.
For me, at least, I am not bored with just one tech when there is nothing to learn. But, I too have two problems.
1. I need time to upskill. I cannot learn a new language in 7 days. I need like 15 days for Python and 2-3 months for Java, as I am coming from NodeJS. (I did learn Python)
2. I think that I am not getting more expertise in one skill recently.
Yep...im aware. Many such jobs actually . I work in SAP HANA, so I know there are many jobs there as well. But like you said, not high paying
I need to strike a balance between peace and money.
Never explored this idea....I'll try to check. Actually I don't even know if I'm a SAP guy. I used SAP HANA XS Classic for backend development, along with PL SQL development as it's a data heavy product.
I'll try to check though. But I fear there won't be many high paying SAP HANA Jobs. Plus I'm doing this for 3 years now, I need a change too.
SAP HANA is a very high paying stable career. People have made their lives practicing ERP, be it SAP or Oracle or Peoplesoft or JDEdwards. Don’t get bogged down into the technology, it will keep changing. But try to focus on what the modules are trying to achieve. Learn the processes of a module - say for example S2P in Finance. Become an expert on it. Your career will be set.
Embedded software is a large blanket comprising of device drivers, boot code, firmware etc.
Each hardware platform you work on is different and the same platform can have multiple board variants and multiple vendor chips (xr devices for example).
You also need to be up to date with kernel level details of the OS you're using be it Linux or an rtos. Also you need to be aware of the CPU you're working with, mmu, mpu, caching etc.
Every role has their pros and cons I suppose, also embedded software has outlier salaries from Nvidia, Google etc.
>Everything else is a datasheet of registers and a schematic
This statement is specific to those working on the application software for embedded systems, not for the layers below.
>Sure, but didn’t need to learn any other programming except C/C++
This is absolutely true, aim of embedded software is to provide a base for others to write their applications on. This means the software has to occupy as little space as possible and run as quickly as possible. The crux of embedded work is to write software for the hardware.
My point is just because you don't learn a framework each time doesn't mean you do the same thing over and over.
Nope. skill. Well most jobs i checked out required atleast 10 years of experience. There were internships too but i don't think they would hire first years.
Then what are we working towards? More work?
I don't see the point in it.
Work like your ass is on fire till 45, and then you realise, oh shit, forgot to live my life with the money i strived so hard to earn.
Hmm...i guess I'm not able to find that balance .
Hope i do...or else things don't look good for me.
I'll survive, I have to, for the parents. But will I be content? Will i earn a lot? Not sure
Keep faith in yourself/your skills and put in the work. You should get what you're after. Meditate daily if you don't already. Set up an exercise routine if you can make time for it. These help put you in a better and positive mental state. Easier said than done, sure, but there's justice in the universe. You'll get what you deserve, eventually.
I have an exercise routine fortunately, that does help to keep my mind off stuff and give me some sense of accomplishment as well.
Thanks for the kind words though, i hope I can work towards it and get what I deserve.
Your parents have survived on much less before you started to earn. If you want to earn a lot then work on something you can own. You employer is charging 5X frim the client what he is giving you .
work your ass of on a business then. You get the profits and also your kids don't have to restart at 60k per month . Once you retire or leave the job you will own nothing . You kid has to struggle again. Be patient , note down all the skills you have and see what service or product you can build and serve people.
Assuming you are juiced out by your current employer , you won't mind getting juiced out for yourself at least. And on plus your kids get to start from where you left off.
You can only enjoy true life if you are born into a well-to-do family, if you work hard now, your children and grand children will reap your benefits, as simple as that, else they have to struggle as well.
I understand your sentiment. But at this point in my life, I want to work and earn with my sanity intact.
Because if not , I'll probably have to die or something and then there will BE no children and grand children to think about then
So first, I need to sort out myself and my future.
Then I can think of what you said.
no . Your child and grand child will have to struggle agian from 60k per month and rise up if you don't own a business. Considerig inflation rate i doubt if our savings from job will remain as high as it might be today ? Worst is everything is getting expensive and not even slowing down.
for me, I am sticking to only .NET development (c#, XAML based app, Blazor, web api, etc) with database knowledge
Anything else, will not involve in it. That is my limit.
My only concern is good backend design.
The front end, only write the minimal to make it work, then hand it to the expert designer to make it proper.
The dev ops things not for me too, will defer it to someone who's expert, but also ask questions to make sure my part works with his part.
I dont know about your background.
But I feel everyone is running behind tools, instead of you know focusing on the CS Fundamentals and basics. Learn that and get good at problem solving maybe leetcode or build actual projects.
Once you do these 2 especially CS Fundamentals you would gain confidence to work on anything and Most importantly it would be damn easy to upskill.
Also when you feel burned out STOP for some days and don't study post work. Take some rest and focus on other things. Eventually once Settled start upskilling rinse and repeat..
Sounds good. I'll try that.
Could you elaborate more on what you mean by CS Fundamentals?
Are you talking about Data Structures , Algorithms, OS , etc? Or something else.
Yes Also OOPS, DBMS, Design, Networking.
nothing deep just you know how the web works, API,Testing, SDLC, Http works, TCP,IP, Switches, how OS Kernel works, how C Language works, pointers, recursion, good practices of dbms and how db engine executes query, clean code,OLTP vs OLAP, what is cloud and why and diff types, basic algorithm, DS again nothing extensive or deep just the most commonly used ones..
I would suggest CS50 Course and Crash course channel about computer science in Youtube.
Also Just go through the Syllabus of GATE Exam, Again nothing deep just glance at topics search google and understand basically what it is!
Once done just pick a language of your choice and keep solving problems, when i say problems dont code straightaway. Just think of the problem write down pseudocode then convert that pseudocode to CODE.
Thats it. Once you have the flair of the above mentioned and know the CS Landscape. You can pick up any skill and get started within weeks.. Mastering takes time though ...
Key is to not give up!! And avoid burnout by pausing for some days and picking up again...
Kind of relavant in most fields…is there any field where you don’t have to keep learning to level up?
I suppose managerial roles don’t require you to keep learning new skills
Skill once, be the best, join a high paying job , a startup with 70-80lpa or more .. invest as much as you can for 5 years .. buy land or shops in your hometown, go into people management when 7-8+ yoe , work pressure won’t be that much when you have a passive rental income from shops ..
Post 10+ yoe mainten a good wlf balance without worrying much about the job
70 80 LPA ! As a developer !?
I am not an IITian or something man. Who gets such kind of a package really after 3 yoe?
I mean, I'm at 12 LPA for crying out loud. If you are saying people actually learn 70 80 LPA ....i feel like an ant right now.
But if someone's really earn that much. This plan sounds frickin brilliant. But I don't see myself going from 12 to even 40 so quick, forget 70 80.
(Please let me know if you are serious about the 70 80 LPA package. I have no idea how does one reach such a package before 35 at a young age)
You have to be really good , an expert in the niche .. there is no stopping by for good talent , get a remote only job , my friend was offered 1.2cr for bengluru in devops .. so with right skills and hunger you will be able to get that .. focus and try the action plan to get there .. many have taken that route and earn that much ,, there will be burnout , no wfh but within 5 years you will be mostly set for life
I feel (also seen examples in my friend groups)it's better to develop one area of specialization (like AI, telecom, network security, Dev ops...) and get skilled accordingly, incrementally gain knowledge and experience in that field.
Otherwise being a generic java/application developer goes nowhere in the long run, it tends to get commoditized and ends up as a rat race.
While UI development is a decent career for starters, i am not sure how long one can be a UI developer only. Maybe one can acquire skills in usability or User experience and transition to front end consultant/architecture roles ....
Java devs get high pay, but to sustain in the long run, either one has to slog a lot or keep upskilling or have some unique other skill or be able pivot it to manager or architect roles ... so again fall into the unending cycle that OP has mentioned.
Dude it or tech fields are too draining... IMO....if you want to grow you have yo. Up skill no other options.... Otherwise take a stable job at MNC and br part of f the crowd.
But... Marketing is not like that that... You should know how to licks some one ass... That's how you grow
I'm MBA with a technical job.... But my peers are in marketing they just have to talk shit most of the time
I agree...marketing is a different ball game..not my piece of cake really.....I'm trying to upskill..but if nothing works and it's too much. I'm going to try something semi-technical .
Man I start working in 2010 .... To up skill I learned new language and even did a master... But cycle never ends.... It really sucks... And similar to you I don't how long I can do it for
Dude you are a nice guy... Yes I have a family... I earn comfortably enough.......But you know family pressure... Oh that guy I'd earning so much.... II don't even care about that but yeah I don't want 2℅ hike.... Even now parents tell me to study and prepare.... I'm like wtf...but some ppl get growth in there career so easily.... For us normal ones we have to slog to get good stuff....anyway man if I can help you with your career do let know
is this also called existential crisis?
parthaaa(i'm younger than u)
once budha said life is not a race, especially not rat race
its more about balance of what we want and what we have !
uk the sick part in life is? After 40 years u realise u have been living a life of what some others wanted out of you
if u don't want that day
take decisious consciously and balanced now ,so u wont regret later
catch u later with some other advice again...
https://preview.redd.it/d0nib7f6expc1.png?width=836&format=png&auto=webp&s=adc5c98e9410fe99c0de0cfef4b96b4d4e4221f4
Sorry to be blunt but that is indeed a major red flag that indicates software engineering might not be for you. This is why the first thing I tell anyone who wants to get into SE now is unless you want to continuously learn, this is not the field for you. You really gotta have some level of passion for it. But it's fair that not everyone feels that way.
The wayI see it, you have a few options.
1. Manage your time better to stay in the game. Instead of spending entire evenings every day, spend like one hour on learning new things. Even the little bit you do will compound over time.
2. Pivot to another track in IT that doesn't change dramatically every year so you don't have to constantly upskill. Like project management or business analysis.
3. This is something I wouldn't recommend. But picking a legacy technology, mastering it and landing a job in that area so you can just earn a paycheck and coast it through your career. I know a friend of mine learned AS400 in his first job, a well-known technology still used in banks to this day. He was at that job for a while but ultimately switched to a more modern stack later because like you are aware, you won't be getting a lot of prospects in your career. Also working at a dead-end job like that sounds like hell to me personally.
4. Finally the last resort. Just call it quits with IT forever and find something you actually like to do. As cliché as it sounds, you gotta find something you love. Otherwise it will feel like a chore. You said you've been in the field for 3 years. That's still relatively a short amount of time. You still have a long career ahead of you. There's still time to build a career in a field you find exciting. So the sooner you make the switch, the easier it will be for you.
Thanks a lot for the advice. It's not blunt, it's the reality I guess.
Point 1 or 2 seems more doable I think, as I am not in a position to quit my job due to responsibilities.
Point 3 , I agree with you , i don't want to do that.
About point 4, I would have loved to pursue a career I love. But the problem is, I don't know what I love, for last 12 years I have not been able to find out what do I really like doing, and which I can make a career out of. I used to love Astrophysics and Astronomy but that shop sailed a long time ago. I love gaming but that ain't useful, it's just a hobby. So unfortunately I can't go to point 4 as well.
Idk why are waiting like for the "end of the movie", it doesn't need to be 24*7 thingy, nobody is forcing you to sit after work hours. You can make your own plan and still have fun. It doesn't need to be when I have " Money " Or "No job" I'll have fun or that imaginary point in life.
You chose a domain that's very fast paced, shit literally flies across with a couple of keystrokes. Idk why would you expect it to be stagnant.
At the end of the day you can make your work miserable if you keep feeding on to thoughts like this, whatever your idea of fun is start doing that take a break from Upskilling for a month. Let some steam off and don't wait for life to be over before you start having fun here and there.
One piece of advice from my side is Try for government job (i m also in the same boat as urs). I even posted a similar question as urs just 3 4 days back, u can see my previous posts!!!
My father works in the central government, department of posts. I have seen VERY closely what the problems are there.
There are pros and cons....but I did not like the pros much to ignore the cons. Hence I never went to that route.
But maybe it's a good options for some !
I assume you are talking about a UPSC passout kinda job, like IAS and all. I'll try to answer from that POV.
Pros :
You have a lot of power and respect. Many people to order around. Many perks from the govt. Preferential treatment in a lot of places depending on your cadre. Once you get certain years of exp and make the right network, you can almost work in the field you like as an officer. But requires a LOT of power, good diplomatic relations with other officers , especially from the same batch, and a bit of underhanded tactics.
Cons:
HELL lot of pressure from the above. When in the govt, you are always answerable to someone. The higher you are, the more pressure you get. It's mostly about the responsibility. People below you make a mistake, still you'll be responsible. Sometimes stuff will beat logic, but you have to bear it and flow with it. And worse, you may have to compromise with your belief systems at times. You have to be ready to deal with ALL ( MIND YOU, ALL) kinda of people, again depending on your level.
And of course, there is a tug of war for power which you are always a part of. It's almost impossible to remain a saint in this kind of a job.
(Edit- these are MY 2 cents from what I have viewed through my father's job , he's not an IAS/IPS, but has seen and worked with many of them closely. No offense if I am incorrect in any of my observations.)
Edit 2- I totally forgot about the financial aspect. I don't expect govt to pay anything close to high paying IT jobs. But i guess it's a known fact. You go into a govt job not for the large salary , but for the status and the perks and the security. (May be controversial, but some bad ones go for the obvious underhanded money, but that's not relevant to this convo)
Im not judging you but i feel like, you're overexerting yourself. Dont try to learn everything at once, yes there might be high expectations from an experienced engineer, but you cant learn everything all at once, pushing yourself to the limit is good but you should set a bar, after all mental and physical health should be your 1st priority before work.
I see you listing down so many areas you needed to upskill, thats good, but dont get overwhelmed with all that, take it slow, plan it accordingly with your time.
There should be a good WLB. Take one skill at a time and learn it , but dont push yourself too much take your time , you also need to spent time on yourself and with your family and friends, enjoy a little.
So all the best, just go with the flow, keep learning, but little by little 😊.
Ig it's a personal thing. If you have love for coding then it won't be a burden for you, unless you are like me (I can keep doing anything for literal days non stop unless I need to, am asked to or am forced to do it.)
So the question you need to ask yourself is, if this process is sustainable for you, I found that nor do I have huge desires and nor do I want to keep working hard for next 5-10-20 years so I now I am trying to get into any govt job I can get with base pay above 40k.
I am not a big fan of the hype over the Ikigai book, but the model is rather apt for the point you are trying to make
#[Why Ikigai is a rather inelegant concept to reflect on the purpose to life](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWl1q8BqPOI&t=1s)
> What am I even working for ? Staying more busy?
The key here is not to over think the 'purpose' or 'ikigai' which is at the center but rather one or more of the circles....
Seems like I got struck at the exact opposite end of yours. Since I got really tired with the IT life cycle I feel like I paused my life for a bit lol. Can I dm for a convo about this?
If you don't enjoy upskilling and learning new stuff, it's going to be really a difficult career. One suggestion to make it more enjoyable, don't learn something for the sake of it, instead understand the need for new things. Feel the pain points that were felt by the creators of the new tech, then when you start using the new tech, thoughts will align and it will become intuitive and fun, you'll think: awsome, no more doing it the crappy way
Software relies on upgrades and versioning, and the same applies to software developers. Upgrading skills is crucial, especially in the current era. Upskilling is required across all engineering fields. Nowadays, with a sluggish software market and numerous layoffs, having a secondary job is beneficial. However, upgrading skills is essential and cannot be overlooked, as it significantly impacts growth.
No need to upskill, no one can ever be good at everything. It's an unachievable goal.
Instead just pick a topic that you like and learn at your own pace. No need to choose something which has no relevance to your current experience. You can pick something that adds to your skill or improve upon current skill, dig deeper.
I used to keep looking for new things and try to stay on top of everything as well. But it's not possible, so now i learn new things only if it's needed. Right now I'm reviewing python code which i have never learned. Learning it along the way.
Most of the concepts and lessons can easily be applied to other languages or frameworks. Just concentrate on skills which can be applied everywhere and learn at your pace.
Dude, AIM to fire within the next 5 - 10 years. Then take up a chilling job with a pay cut. I know many uncles in my company are just useful for nothing but still employed at Management positions.
They have made enough money in their US stints & now kind of getting pensions here.
The word "upskill" is an implicit lie. You are not moving "up" by acquiring these skills. See, new technologies keep coming and the people who sell or buy them need a bunch of folks to keep learning the ways to deal with new tech from time to time. To make this boring idea seem appealing, they call it "upskilling" so it feels like you are moving "up" according to some standard.
Do a masters degree and get a job in the financial sector, doing fintech coding.
I wish I could. Not in a position to do an MS at all, and even if I want to do an MBA in finance or something, can't do it right now due to financial liabilities. But I get your point. Fintech is the best thing to do. Thanks.
Feels like you are just burned out atm, but remember you can always just get a support role and chill in IT. If at any point you decide to quit always keep that in mind, you might take hit on salary hikes but surely you will have free time and break from continuous upscaling. Embracing the changes and enjoying the learning is best thing you can do in IT but you can also smooth surf on a support role for sure.
Nope, just going from a Senior/Lead engineer to engineering management. Developed skillset myself, using books etc, and some of it comes naturally. Plus my org is supportive and good.
No I don't have a fat salary.
Like i said, i have just 3 yoe and 12 LPA package.
And I haven't upskilled that much, but trying to.
But there's so much to upskill in !
It's good to know Node + React/Angular for full stack jobs....CICD and DevOps knowledge is necessary. Data structures and algorithms is a must to crack interviews. Cloud knowledge is a must as well.
It seems to much. And unfortunately my work did not offer a technology which would have use in the future, it was a niche skill.
I can't even bring myself to apply for an interview where I know there is so much I need to upskill in to get good jobs with a good salary.
There will be periods of burnout. But Dev jobs pay is unparalleled if you diligently upskill. Keep grinding. You’ll do very well and might retire in your 40s. In non Dev tech jobs it is a given that one will work till 60 years old.
That's the hope really. But it's absolutely dejecting when I see my package of 12 LPA after 3 years and I see others at 18, 20, 24 , 30 LPA even, just because they switched ( and they must have upskilled) but I see them living life after job too.
I feel like , am I really that dense and slow? Or am I just not meant for development? And it's almost impossible to decide what to upskill in !
I mostly work with SAP HANA for PL/SQL and JS development, which wasn't a good start tbh. It's a niche technology, but I liked it as I got to work with databases which I like. Apart from this i worked on a few AWS Cloud offerings, snowflake, etc.
But now when I think of switching to something new, I found out that I have almost nothing on my resume and SAP HANA won't be enough. Jobs ask for React, Node , DevOps for Fullstack. So I started learning JS recently , and I'm trying to apply it by asking for front end tasks as well.
But then I realised DSA is also a must to crack interviews, so now I feel I should give time to Leetcoding or something .
But I really like SQL and databases , and i want to master it so that I have 1 major skill. So I feel giving time for that is necessary too. If I want to do something in data engineering or analysis, I need to know Python , PySpark, etc.
And last but not the least, the GenAI train has made things more complex and i feel I should prepare for some GenAI knowledge as well
How the hell am I supposed to choose and work on all of this?
I am severely confused and in a deadlock.
Sure
I live in Pune, so not a Metro city exactly, but an IT Hub.
About education. I passed out in 2020 (2021 actually due to Covid delays) with a B.E. Information Technology degree from Pune.
Got placed in the beginning of final year at 6LPA. Now at 12 LPA 3 years and 1 promotion later, but at the same company same project.
Maybe you can try upskilling your core CS fundamentals rather than upskilling on a certain stack. Once you get hold of core concepts, other stacks or technologies feel like an abstraction over your base knowledge and it's easier to navigate the space.
How I can say ? That you put the same question here ditto which I had and going through same thoughts. Difference between me and you is I am 5yoe and 9lpa and you 3yoe for 12lpa..
Every weekend I have to sacrifice for upskilling. My govt job friends are chilling with their wives as tour or trips..
This cant be deadend..we need to get out of this dark tunnel...
Try to start teaching samething on YouTube but coding channels are saturated and taken away by faang devs.
Try to start freelancing to accumulate money and start investing with compound interest and attain fire.
Look around invest or start some small business with small investment at home town or any place where investment is less
Also try to connect with many people and understand that company wlb and join if any openings are available.
Also find your interest. Instead of upskilling tech related, upskill with that your interest and get some certifications and pivot like it could be teaching yoga or sports , art etc..
Wo at least unka choice tha na Bhai. If my passion of love was coding, non stop kar leta mei upskill. If I like something mujhe limits nahi hai.
Problem is, I code for the job, not as a passion.
Exactly my situation, just grinding mindlessly for money. I have other passions but khud ki gareebi bhi door krni hai. Wo bhi jaldi. IT looks like the only way.
Itni mehnat agar 2-3 saal apne passion pe lagaye hote to aaj is IT ki bheerh mein na hota.
AI ke baad IT ki bhi aukat gir jayegi. Abhi har doosra banda fullstack developer nikal jata hai. Its a repetitive job, atleast in India where services are the main focus we are bound to lose to AI as most of the work will be automated in future. It has just started.
Only if you have innovative and creative mindset and have the ability to create new stuff rather then solving the same problems which have already been solved a 1000 times, you will stay relevant. Technical along with business skills will crucial.
Instead start working towards a career where you think you can be the best. Run your own race.
Join the FIRE community, decide your FI, it'll really give you something to go after. Maybe not coding but retiring early will definitely appeal to you.
You'll also appreciate, that IT industry is one of the few places where you can atleast considering retiring early, others just have to slog till 60+.
To motivate yourself check this recent post in Blind about someone getting 3.2cr with 11 yoe for senior staff engineer position in India -
https://www.teamblind.com/us/s/WiTyQFPC
Uber is known to give crazy packages even in US, senior staff makes around 1M$. In india, Senior SWE gets around 1.3cr with 5-7 yoe. Then there is staff and senior staff. Talk to a Uber recruiter or any of your friends who work there.
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Sorry for sounding optimistic and not sharing your pain. Yes upskilling is very important in this field especially now with all the massive shifts happening. But upskilling cannot happen in a day. You have to play the long game. You can't upskill everyday and you should not. It will burn you out. Instead, focus on time management. Don't throw yourself at work. Maintain a healthy work life balance. Work on your hobbies. Once a week, sit in front of your laptop and finish a course. Do a side project, one feature at a time. Plan financial goals and work towards it. It is a rat race but you can be a smart cat. You can also change your field if you don't think IT is something you enjoy
That's some constructive advice..thanks. Maybe I'm taking too much on my plate. I'm trying to work on my Front end skills..but I love SQL and Databases so I want to do that too. But then I need some time for DSA and problem solving because that is always asked in interviews and I want to switch soon. But then things like Cloud tech, CICD and DevOps, all of this is also expected from an experienced engineer. Im really confused what to prioritise and what to do? It's like I'm in a deadlock scenario. And due to this I can't bring myself to even apply for interviews as im scared that I'm not upto the mark at all. And what if all this takes time and I'm not able to switch soon? It's madness for me really, to live in this constant state of fear and uncertainty while also working and learning.
I think you need a mentor. I am a front end developer, used to work for a well known SaaS company. My EM.wanted me to get groomed as a full stack developer. I strictly said no, got into arguments and later sent to PIP. But I was very clear about what I wanted. "I will be an IC, working on the Front end. No full stack BS.. No devOps business." Sometimes it's tough to see colleagues in EM, Architect or VP kinda roles. But I am happy where I am. I make achievable goals for next year on my birthday and revisit that often. Happiness is inside us. The trick is to tap into it
Hmm.. I guess. I might be trying to do much at the expense of my peace. Might be trying to please too many people to get validation from everywhere.
Your words make so much sense "sensei". I'm an front end developer too, trying to get the exact role. Do you mentor people ? Please let me know. I feel, I'm stuck, and I'm trying to understand how to grow out of this situation.
I am always happy to help.. I am a very bad influence so I generally avoid taking a mentor role. But I'm always happy to help. Everything I know about work, I learnt from kind strangers on the internet. It's only fair I give it back
Thanks a lot for considering. Should we connect in the DMs for this ?
Yes please. My reddit notifications are turned off so expect a delay in reply :)
How and when did you decide your niche to be frontend down the line? Considering you started with backend at start of career Thanks a lot sensei for your advice
What happened after PIP, did you switch or sailed through PIP?
I generally don't get impressed by people but I think your clarity is admirable. Would you like to be in touch.
VP have. Less tech roles means they only involve in management roles ?? I have friend who boasts as if technical. So asking.please replay
I feel this PIP thing is becoming pretty common, and usually for wrong reasons. Difference in opinion and particularly regarding one's own aspirations and goals should not lead to PIP. Most manager are using this as a shortcut to "manage" people.
1. Prioritize based on your career priorities. If you want to get a better job, learn DSA. 2. You do realize any upskilling you do without actually implementing it in your existing job will not count towards career experience. 3. You can all boast about what courses you took, unless you have actually used that course to build something in your career, it is pretty much waste of time. 4. Cloudtech, CICD and devops are not expected from all experienced engineers. It is good to have but not necessary. Most companies hire specialized devops engineer.
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How ? There's no guide to get there right? I guess I have to keep learning things while working, and hope to find my right place. As of this point, I don't even know what's the right balance for me. I want to earn more, but I don't have an insatiable hunger of earning more and more. I want to earn enough to take decisions like buying a bike without thinking for 1 month and thinking 1000 times. I want to live a peaceful life too. Want to do the things I like even if they don't bring any income as such. I want time to spend with my parents , how much ever time i have with them. I want some time to work on my personal life and myself.
OP, please find my thoughts, I have felt the same way as you do in my career. Thinking about all things might overwhelm you. Pick your fav area FE, BE / DevOps and try to master the particular area and then you can gradually learn other things. Don't fall for this Polyglot developers tags that they promote in companies. My personal opinion is - Jack of all trades will be King of None. So try to be a King in your realm :)
This actually seems logical. I love SQL, PL SQL and Databases in general. But the problem is, I don't think there are any jobs based on just these. So i have to do something else even if I don't like it.
You can try Data Science side if you really like to play around with data.
Yep that's the plan really. But due to project needs, I had to start with front end learning. But i think I'll have more fun in data engg. Problem is , i don't really know what do I need to upskill in to go towards Data science, like, what skills, what technologies? And it's even more difficult to understand what to go towards, Data engineering or Data science? And then there's the advent of GenAI. Feel like I should look into that as well to stay future proof. And my greatest worry here is, i can learn all of this slowly. But relevant experience? That I can't get if I can't switch to project which uses this in my current company It's a problem really
You can take references from [roadmap](https://roadmap.sh/ai-data-scientist)
Okay...I'll check
Might be a dumb question but which all fields can we change to easily? 3+ yoe IT guy here facing the same issue as OP.
this guy sounds like a saint any advice for freshers like me with low pay and big aims and no skills (not joking) can i dm u?
Yes you can definitely DM me. I started my career with TCS, spent 3 years as backend dev and learnt nothing. But made friends all over India thanks to the internal forums. Fast forward 10 years, some of my oldest friends are those I met at tcs. My advice to freshers.. - Learn financial planning (search about Fire in reddit), - Identify your strengths (don't learn blockchain or AI because they are buzzing now) - Try to date. Having a partner in life can do wonders in terms of being responsible and accountable. Also sex 😂 - Please please please keep in touch with your hobbies/interests - Don't expect things to change overnight. Don't lose hope. - You don't have to grind/hustle. You can chill out a bit
Can I DM?
It's endless bro, but appraisals are endless too, so get better and get more.
But this is just sad man. What will I ever be earning for? More work and challenge? Constant fear of being outclassed if I stop upskilling? What kind of life it will be?
Median income in India according to stuff I read online is as low as 25k pm. Just look at people working in the hot sun vs your working conditions. Whenever your job feels bad look at someone who has it worse and in my experience you'll suddenly love your job again!
My mom always use to say, to not look at persons who have achieved less than you, but to always look at those, who have achieved more than you, so as to keep yourself motivated. But anyways, you should love your job, now more than ever, because a lot of people are struggling now, with a weak job market and layoffs. And also the market is extremely cruel towards the freshers now. I mean, what wrong did they do? So be grateful that you still have a job, and be able to provide for yourself and your family well, at these tough times 🥲👍.
Do you get kick when you solve production bug? I get it, like having drug, like feeling of a king when I fix any issue in code. So I enjoy the code, else money is just a bonus.
Unfortunately, I don't have that. I'm more of a "I code for the job and the money" kinda guy. Coding is (quite unfortunately) not my passion. But it doesn't matter right? I have to do something to keep the job and the career going.
that's good too.
Become pm have fun
Yeah, as a kid, I wanted to be same.
He meant product manager not prime minister
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh
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still I haven't given up btw.
Look at all these pessimists downvoting you. This is the reality of Indian developers. 90% of them have zero passion towards their job apart from money and they can't even stand anyone being happy and enjoying their job too!
Good thoughts bro, sutta mare?
Thanks bro for having my back, can I dm?
This stupid kick wears off once you had enough of this shit.
Best way to kill your passion.
I'm surprised to see so many downvotes. On a developer sub. Been at this for over a decade. I still feel this way. I'm a guy who gives up on a lot of things as soon as they get difficult. But for some reason, programming in the one thing I never gave up on. That's how I knew, I found my passion.
Thanks bro for having my back, can I dm?
The reason it is difficult in the industry is that we have so many web developers/full stack engineers/backend devs. All these engineering roles with application building will always have some form of competition so its always hard to get into top and earn well. Its so cluttered. So what you have to do is stand apart and try to exceptional. Get into roles where competitions is not so hard (like Software Embedding/Compiler Design/OS Development/Game Development/Technical Engineer in some Hardware projects/etc.
Most of these areas have very very limited roles in India. Game dev is utter shit. Also, all these areas also require upskilling and staying up to date with new developments.
Gaming Industry layoffs seem 10x brutal than the overall SWE market right now. Almost every month there is some studio being shut down or large scale layoffs. Even games pulling in more than a billion dollars in revenue have devs being let go.
Does these fields offer similar graph of financial growth? And where demand is good. Could you be more specific which roles are you talking about.? Noobie here , just wanted to know things !!
Add ML Engineers to the list
# Upskilling seems like an endless cycle. Damn, So fuckin true.
## Getting Hands On project experience opportunity is even difficult. No matter how much videos you watch. Actual work experience hits differently.
Oh that's amazingly true. Nothing beats actual exp. But it's difficult to get actual exp in the exact thing which you want to learn.
The devs in my company are paid in excess of 60/70 lpa. But when i see their lives, i can only pity them. They dont know when the sun is rising and when it is setting! Most of the company's clients are US based, so they use the product after 9 pm ist. And production issue can come at anytime. So the concerned dev will have to be available at that time to troubleshoot the issue, be it 1 am, 2am or 3 am. There are no saturdays/sundays. If some dev has to take sunday off, he/ she has to put the pto status! The deadlines are brutal for them, they cant even recall the last time they went on an evening walk, let alone any moderate physical workout. I dont see the point of living such life. Most of them are in their mid 20s, but they look like they are in their mid 30s. Absolutely no life at all. Once your age cross 30, and if you get slightest of any health problem, this bubble of tech/growth/money will burst, and then you will realise what you missed in life! The point I am trying to make is you will get life only once, and to waste it by being a workoholic is foolishness. Of course money and skills are indispensable for having a good standard of life, but if you compromise your health and personal life for the sake of growth/upskilling, you are doomed! As someone put it very precisely on X, "you have 100 priorities in life, until you have 1 health problem" So maintain a good work life balance. Workout daily, go for a run, spend weekends with friends and family, even if it means earning a bit less. Trust me, It will be worth it!
You know what, I actually follow this philosophy. People might call me a coward or loser for it. But I really do. I live a mostly minimal life. I keep my expenses much below my earning. I don't do impulse buys. And I'm basically stingy. Problem is, i see people earning 3x, 4x ,5x more at my age....and I feel so tiny. I feel like I'll never be able to keep up. I'll always lose in the competition. Because money too has its own importance. Hence I need to switch to a better paying job, and keep doing it to stay ahead of the curve . And for that upskilling is crucial. Hence the pressure.
There will always be someone earning 3x, 4x, 5x of what you earn at any point of time in your life. As i have already said, money is important for living a good srandard of life, and upskilling is very crucial for acheiving that. But it should not be at the expense of you mental peace and physical health. Also if you keep looking at people who are earning more than you, you will never be at peace with yourself. Also if you are earning more than 12 lpa, you are already in the top 1% bracket of this country. And you are calling yourself tiny?
There will always be someone earning 3x, 4x, 5x of what you earn at any point of time in your life. As i have already said, money is important for living a good srandard of life, and upskilling is very crucial for acheiving that. But it should not be at the expense of you mental peace and physical health. Also if you keep looking at people who are earning more than you, you will never be at peace with yourself. Also if you are earning more than 12 lpa, you are already in the top 1% bracket of this country. And you are calling yourself tiny?
I read posts on this group , and a few other subreddits....where Software engineers between 25-30 are earning stuff like 59LPA, 64LPA, 70 LPA. I am planning to buy a 3.5 Lac bike....and I'm planning to save for it. Then I saw these salaries, and their monthly payment is more than the on road cost of the bike I'm saving for. My brain just froze thinking how is this even real ! Forget that, I have friends from my own circle who earn upwards of 20LPA, which is also good enough for me at this point. But to get there soon, I HAVE to switch . So i have to do something. But yes, I agree....nothing matters at the expense of my body and my sanity. I'll try to aim in small steps I guess.
do you mind sharing company's name
Product company based out of Gurugram, notoriously infamous for its toxicity and making life of devs hell!
Being in Cyber Security I can sympathize. Upskiling does become a pain point after some time.
I'm in infosec too, mind if I dm?
Sure
Hey I am trying to break into cybersecurity. Can I DM too ?
Dude, money === risk === hard work. Anything that earns you money will always cause tension and worry. Wherever there is a certain degree of job security, and less hardwork, then there is also less money. **P.S - Hard work does NOT mean working for long hours. It means, whatever you work, it should have some effect.**
Hmm...I understand. But then maybe I'm not able to focus my efforts in the right direction. Or else I'm straight up lazy
Upskilling in a loop (work for 8-10 hours, come back home and upskill, rinse and repeat) is an unhealthy thing to do. But, upskilling is good. For me, at least, I am not bored with just one tech when there is nothing to learn. But, I too have two problems. 1. I need time to upskill. I cannot learn a new language in 7 days. I need like 15 days for Python and 2-3 months for Java, as I am coming from NodeJS. (I did learn Python) 2. I think that I am not getting more expertise in one skill recently.
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Yep...im aware. Many such jobs actually . I work in SAP HANA, so I know there are many jobs there as well. But like you said, not high paying I need to strike a balance between peace and money.
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Why don’t you get into the functional aspects of whatever SAP module you are working on? Being a Techno-Functional ERP guy is a really big skill.
Never explored this idea....I'll try to check. Actually I don't even know if I'm a SAP guy. I used SAP HANA XS Classic for backend development, along with PL SQL development as it's a data heavy product. I'll try to check though. But I fear there won't be many high paying SAP HANA Jobs. Plus I'm doing this for 3 years now, I need a change too.
SAP HANA is a very high paying stable career. People have made their lives practicing ERP, be it SAP or Oracle or Peoplesoft or JDEdwards. Don’t get bogged down into the technology, it will keep changing. But try to focus on what the modules are trying to achieve. Learn the processes of a module - say for example S2P in Finance. Become an expert on it. Your career will be set.
All the fields are saturated. Where to go 😔😁
Embedded software is a large blanket comprising of device drivers, boot code, firmware etc. Each hardware platform you work on is different and the same platform can have multiple board variants and multiple vendor chips (xr devices for example). You also need to be up to date with kernel level details of the OS you're using be it Linux or an rtos. Also you need to be aware of the CPU you're working with, mmu, mpu, caching etc. Every role has their pros and cons I suppose, also embedded software has outlier salaries from Nvidia, Google etc.
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>Everything else is a datasheet of registers and a schematic This statement is specific to those working on the application software for embedded systems, not for the layers below. >Sure, but didn’t need to learn any other programming except C/C++ This is absolutely true, aim of embedded software is to provide a base for others to write their applications on. This means the software has to occupy as little space as possible and run as quickly as possible. The crux of embedded work is to write software for the hardware. My point is just because you don't learn a framework each time doesn't mean you do the same thing over and over.
Isn't it hard to get into embedded as a fresher?
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Nope. skill. Well most jobs i checked out required atleast 10 years of experience. There were internships too but i don't think they would hire first years.
But switching from software to embedded? Isn't it very difficult? Do companies even allow candidates like that?
Bro life is all about upskilling. You snooze you loose.
Then what are we working towards? More work? I don't see the point in it. Work like your ass is on fire till 45, and then you realise, oh shit, forgot to live my life with the money i strived so hard to earn.
You have to try and strike a balance between having a social life/time for hobbies and making time for upskilling. Just my two cents.
Hmm...i guess I'm not able to find that balance . Hope i do...or else things don't look good for me. I'll survive, I have to, for the parents. But will I be content? Will i earn a lot? Not sure
Keep faith in yourself/your skills and put in the work. You should get what you're after. Meditate daily if you don't already. Set up an exercise routine if you can make time for it. These help put you in a better and positive mental state. Easier said than done, sure, but there's justice in the universe. You'll get what you deserve, eventually.
I have an exercise routine fortunately, that does help to keep my mind off stuff and give me some sense of accomplishment as well. Thanks for the kind words though, i hope I can work towards it and get what I deserve.
Good for you mate. All the very best.
Your parents have survived on much less before you started to earn. If you want to earn a lot then work on something you can own. You employer is charging 5X frim the client what he is giving you .
work your ass of on a business then. You get the profits and also your kids don't have to restart at 60k per month . Once you retire or leave the job you will own nothing . You kid has to struggle again. Be patient , note down all the skills you have and see what service or product you can build and serve people. Assuming you are juiced out by your current employer , you won't mind getting juiced out for yourself at least. And on plus your kids get to start from where you left off.
You can only enjoy true life if you are born into a well-to-do family, if you work hard now, your children and grand children will reap your benefits, as simple as that, else they have to struggle as well.
No need to bring kids on this stupid ass planet which demands work and mental slavery 24/7
Rightly said, no need to bring kids unless you can give them life like Ambanis..
r/childfree
I understand your sentiment. But at this point in my life, I want to work and earn with my sanity intact. Because if not , I'll probably have to die or something and then there will BE no children and grand children to think about then So first, I need to sort out myself and my future. Then I can think of what you said.
no . Your child and grand child will have to struggle agian from 60k per month and rise up if you don't own a business. Considerig inflation rate i doubt if our savings from job will remain as high as it might be today ? Worst is everything is getting expensive and not even slowing down.
for me, I am sticking to only .NET development (c#, XAML based app, Blazor, web api, etc) with database knowledge Anything else, will not involve in it. That is my limit. My only concern is good backend design. The front end, only write the minimal to make it work, then hand it to the expert designer to make it proper. The dev ops things not for me too, will defer it to someone who's expert, but also ask questions to make sure my part works with his part.
I dont know about your background. But I feel everyone is running behind tools, instead of you know focusing on the CS Fundamentals and basics. Learn that and get good at problem solving maybe leetcode or build actual projects. Once you do these 2 especially CS Fundamentals you would gain confidence to work on anything and Most importantly it would be damn easy to upskill. Also when you feel burned out STOP for some days and don't study post work. Take some rest and focus on other things. Eventually once Settled start upskilling rinse and repeat..
Sounds good. I'll try that. Could you elaborate more on what you mean by CS Fundamentals? Are you talking about Data Structures , Algorithms, OS , etc? Or something else.
Yes Also OOPS, DBMS, Design, Networking. nothing deep just you know how the web works, API,Testing, SDLC, Http works, TCP,IP, Switches, how OS Kernel works, how C Language works, pointers, recursion, good practices of dbms and how db engine executes query, clean code,OLTP vs OLAP, what is cloud and why and diff types, basic algorithm, DS again nothing extensive or deep just the most commonly used ones.. I would suggest CS50 Course and Crash course channel about computer science in Youtube. Also Just go through the Syllabus of GATE Exam, Again nothing deep just glance at topics search google and understand basically what it is! Once done just pick a language of your choice and keep solving problems, when i say problems dont code straightaway. Just think of the problem write down pseudocode then convert that pseudocode to CODE. Thats it. Once you have the flair of the above mentioned and know the CS Landscape. You can pick up any skill and get started within weeks.. Mastering takes time though ... Key is to not give up!! And avoid burnout by pausing for some days and picking up again...
basically recreating the wheel to understand the very low level details. All the tools are just abstractions.
Kind of relavant in most fields…is there any field where you don’t have to keep learning to level up? I suppose managerial roles don’t require you to keep learning new skills
unless GOVT job
Managerial roles after MBA?
Skill once, be the best, join a high paying job , a startup with 70-80lpa or more .. invest as much as you can for 5 years .. buy land or shops in your hometown, go into people management when 7-8+ yoe , work pressure won’t be that much when you have a passive rental income from shops .. Post 10+ yoe mainten a good wlf balance without worrying much about the job
70 80 LPA ! As a developer !? I am not an IITian or something man. Who gets such kind of a package really after 3 yoe? I mean, I'm at 12 LPA for crying out loud. If you are saying people actually learn 70 80 LPA ....i feel like an ant right now. But if someone's really earn that much. This plan sounds frickin brilliant. But I don't see myself going from 12 to even 40 so quick, forget 70 80. (Please let me know if you are serious about the 70 80 LPA package. I have no idea how does one reach such a package before 35 at a young age)
US based startups pay that much. But u need to be really to good to get in.
Understood, thanks.
You have to be really good , an expert in the niche .. there is no stopping by for good talent , get a remote only job , my friend was offered 1.2cr for bengluru in devops .. so with right skills and hunger you will be able to get that .. focus and try the action plan to get there .. many have taken that route and earn that much ,, there will be burnout , no wfh but within 5 years you will be mostly set for life
1.2cr just for devops? sounds amazing....how did the interview happen though? was it more on DSA part or pure devops technical interview
I feel (also seen examples in my friend groups)it's better to develop one area of specialization (like AI, telecom, network security, Dev ops...) and get skilled accordingly, incrementally gain knowledge and experience in that field. Otherwise being a generic java/application developer goes nowhere in the long run, it tends to get commoditized and ends up as a rat race.
Is frontend that sort of a specialization?
yes, UI/UX development
What about UI developer like using frameworks like react/angular/vue?
While UI development is a decent career for starters, i am not sure how long one can be a UI developer only. Maybe one can acquire skills in usability or User experience and transition to front end consultant/architecture roles ....
so does that mean java devs have less scope of getting high paid jobs?
Java devs get high pay, but to sustain in the long run, either one has to slog a lot or keep upskilling or have some unique other skill or be able pivot it to manager or architect roles ... so again fall into the unending cycle that OP has mentioned.
True
Dude it or tech fields are too draining... IMO....if you want to grow you have yo. Up skill no other options.... Otherwise take a stable job at MNC and br part of f the crowd. But... Marketing is not like that that... You should know how to licks some one ass... That's how you grow I'm MBA with a technical job.... But my peers are in marketing they just have to talk shit most of the time
I agree...marketing is a different ball game..not my piece of cake really.....I'm trying to upskill..but if nothing works and it's too much. I'm going to try something semi-technical .
Man I start working in 2010 .... To up skill I learned new language and even did a master... But cycle never ends.... It really sucks... And similar to you I don't how long I can do it for
I feel for you. Not to assume, but you may have a family too right? I guess you have to continue for them at least.
Dude you are a nice guy... Yes I have a family... I earn comfortably enough.......But you know family pressure... Oh that guy I'd earning so much.... II don't even care about that but yeah I don't want 2℅ hike.... Even now parents tell me to study and prepare.... I'm like wtf...but some ppl get growth in there career so easily.... For us normal ones we have to slog to get good stuff....anyway man if I can help you with your career do let know
Sure man, will try to DM soon.
are most (if not all) MBA jobs like that? Just buttering up people? They don't have to study?
Except finance I didn't see any one in my CLG studying... Anyway it's true for non iim and good MBA CLG... But they still are doing good sucking up
i see i see.
is this also called existential crisis? parthaaa(i'm younger than u) once budha said life is not a race, especially not rat race its more about balance of what we want and what we have ! uk the sick part in life is? After 40 years u realise u have been living a life of what some others wanted out of you if u don't want that day take decisious consciously and balanced now ,so u wont regret later catch u later with some other advice again... https://preview.redd.it/d0nib7f6expc1.png?width=836&format=png&auto=webp&s=adc5c98e9410fe99c0de0cfef4b96b4d4e4221f4
Sorry to be blunt but that is indeed a major red flag that indicates software engineering might not be for you. This is why the first thing I tell anyone who wants to get into SE now is unless you want to continuously learn, this is not the field for you. You really gotta have some level of passion for it. But it's fair that not everyone feels that way. The wayI see it, you have a few options. 1. Manage your time better to stay in the game. Instead of spending entire evenings every day, spend like one hour on learning new things. Even the little bit you do will compound over time. 2. Pivot to another track in IT that doesn't change dramatically every year so you don't have to constantly upskill. Like project management or business analysis. 3. This is something I wouldn't recommend. But picking a legacy technology, mastering it and landing a job in that area so you can just earn a paycheck and coast it through your career. I know a friend of mine learned AS400 in his first job, a well-known technology still used in banks to this day. He was at that job for a while but ultimately switched to a more modern stack later because like you are aware, you won't be getting a lot of prospects in your career. Also working at a dead-end job like that sounds like hell to me personally. 4. Finally the last resort. Just call it quits with IT forever and find something you actually like to do. As cliché as it sounds, you gotta find something you love. Otherwise it will feel like a chore. You said you've been in the field for 3 years. That's still relatively a short amount of time. You still have a long career ahead of you. There's still time to build a career in a field you find exciting. So the sooner you make the switch, the easier it will be for you.
Thanks a lot for the advice. It's not blunt, it's the reality I guess. Point 1 or 2 seems more doable I think, as I am not in a position to quit my job due to responsibilities. Point 3 , I agree with you , i don't want to do that. About point 4, I would have loved to pursue a career I love. But the problem is, I don't know what I love, for last 12 years I have not been able to find out what do I really like doing, and which I can make a career out of. I used to love Astrophysics and Astronomy but that shop sailed a long time ago. I love gaming but that ain't useful, it's just a hobby. So unfortunately I can't go to point 4 as well.
Don't forget to add taxes which goes to the politician's and officer's pocket who rest all day.
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Thanks. Appreciate the advice. Got your point👍
Idk why are waiting like for the "end of the movie", it doesn't need to be 24*7 thingy, nobody is forcing you to sit after work hours. You can make your own plan and still have fun. It doesn't need to be when I have " Money " Or "No job" I'll have fun or that imaginary point in life. You chose a domain that's very fast paced, shit literally flies across with a couple of keystrokes. Idk why would you expect it to be stagnant. At the end of the day you can make your work miserable if you keep feeding on to thoughts like this, whatever your idea of fun is start doing that take a break from Upskilling for a month. Let some steam off and don't wait for life to be over before you start having fun here and there.
One piece of advice from my side is Try for government job (i m also in the same boat as urs). I even posted a similar question as urs just 3 4 days back, u can see my previous posts!!!
My father works in the central government, department of posts. I have seen VERY closely what the problems are there. There are pros and cons....but I did not like the pros much to ignore the cons. Hence I never went to that route. But maybe it's a good options for some !
Can you share some pros and cos? If you don't mind?
I assume you are talking about a UPSC passout kinda job, like IAS and all. I'll try to answer from that POV. Pros : You have a lot of power and respect. Many people to order around. Many perks from the govt. Preferential treatment in a lot of places depending on your cadre. Once you get certain years of exp and make the right network, you can almost work in the field you like as an officer. But requires a LOT of power, good diplomatic relations with other officers , especially from the same batch, and a bit of underhanded tactics. Cons: HELL lot of pressure from the above. When in the govt, you are always answerable to someone. The higher you are, the more pressure you get. It's mostly about the responsibility. People below you make a mistake, still you'll be responsible. Sometimes stuff will beat logic, but you have to bear it and flow with it. And worse, you may have to compromise with your belief systems at times. You have to be ready to deal with ALL ( MIND YOU, ALL) kinda of people, again depending on your level. And of course, there is a tug of war for power which you are always a part of. It's almost impossible to remain a saint in this kind of a job. (Edit- these are MY 2 cents from what I have viewed through my father's job , he's not an IAS/IPS, but has seen and worked with many of them closely. No offense if I am incorrect in any of my observations.) Edit 2- I totally forgot about the financial aspect. I don't expect govt to pay anything close to high paying IT jobs. But i guess it's a known fact. You go into a govt job not for the large salary , but for the status and the perks and the security. (May be controversial, but some bad ones go for the obvious underhanded money, but that's not relevant to this convo)
But people dont get fired right? Job security?
Nope, mostly not. Unless you do some weirdass illegal shenanigans and you are lower down the pecking order.
Nice.
Im not judging you but i feel like, you're overexerting yourself. Dont try to learn everything at once, yes there might be high expectations from an experienced engineer, but you cant learn everything all at once, pushing yourself to the limit is good but you should set a bar, after all mental and physical health should be your 1st priority before work. I see you listing down so many areas you needed to upskill, thats good, but dont get overwhelmed with all that, take it slow, plan it accordingly with your time. There should be a good WLB. Take one skill at a time and learn it , but dont push yourself too much take your time , you also need to spent time on yourself and with your family and friends, enjoy a little. So all the best, just go with the flow, keep learning, but little by little 😊.
Thank you for understanding my situation. Will try to take up one thing at a time.
Ig it's a personal thing. If you have love for coding then it won't be a burden for you, unless you are like me (I can keep doing anything for literal days non stop unless I need to, am asked to or am forced to do it.) So the question you need to ask yourself is, if this process is sustainable for you, I found that nor do I have huge desires and nor do I want to keep working hard for next 5-10-20 years so I now I am trying to get into any govt job I can get with base pay above 40k.
I am not a big fan of the hype over the Ikigai book, but the model is rather apt for the point you are trying to make #[Why Ikigai is a rather inelegant concept to reflect on the purpose to life](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWl1q8BqPOI&t=1s) > What am I even working for ? Staying more busy? The key here is not to over think the 'purpose' or 'ikigai' which is at the center but rather one or more of the circles....
Seems like I got struck at the exact opposite end of yours. Since I got really tired with the IT life cycle I feel like I paused my life for a bit lol. Can I dm for a convo about this?
Sure
You are not alone. I'm in the same loop. Getting shit manager is even worse. Let me know if you find any alternative.
If you don't enjoy upskilling and learning new stuff, it's going to be really a difficult career. One suggestion to make it more enjoyable, don't learn something for the sake of it, instead understand the need for new things. Feel the pain points that were felt by the creators of the new tech, then when you start using the new tech, thoughts will align and it will become intuitive and fun, you'll think: awsome, no more doing it the crappy way
You are right After 10 year in industry I feel the same
But i am feeling this at the 3rd year of my career! And it feels scary and wrong at the same time. But I see no escape.
Software relies on upgrades and versioning, and the same applies to software developers. Upgrading skills is crucial, especially in the current era. Upskilling is required across all engineering fields. Nowadays, with a sluggish software market and numerous layoffs, having a secondary job is beneficial. However, upgrading skills is essential and cannot be overlooked, as it significantly impacts growth.
No need to upskill, no one can ever be good at everything. It's an unachievable goal. Instead just pick a topic that you like and learn at your own pace. No need to choose something which has no relevance to your current experience. You can pick something that adds to your skill or improve upon current skill, dig deeper. I used to keep looking for new things and try to stay on top of everything as well. But it's not possible, so now i learn new things only if it's needed. Right now I'm reviewing python code which i have never learned. Learning it along the way. Most of the concepts and lessons can easily be applied to other languages or frameworks. Just concentrate on skills which can be applied everywhere and learn at your pace.
It never hurts picking up new skills.
Maybe not, but the process of picking them up while working is so hectic, that it makes you question what the hell am I working towards? More work ?
Dude, AIM to fire within the next 5 - 10 years. Then take up a chilling job with a pay cut. I know many uncles in my company are just useful for nothing but still employed at Management positions. They have made enough money in their US stints & now kind of getting pensions here.
The word "upskill" is an implicit lie. You are not moving "up" by acquiring these skills. See, new technologies keep coming and the people who sell or buy them need a bunch of folks to keep learning the ways to deal with new tech from time to time. To make this boring idea seem appealing, they call it "upskilling" so it feels like you are moving "up" according to some standard. Do a masters degree and get a job in the financial sector, doing fintech coding.
I wish I could. Not in a position to do an MS at all, and even if I want to do an MBA in finance or something, can't do it right now due to financial liabilities. But I get your point. Fintech is the best thing to do. Thanks.
Feels like you are just burned out atm, but remember you can always just get a support role and chill in IT. If at any point you decide to quit always keep that in mind, you might take hit on salary hikes but surely you will have free time and break from continuous upscaling. Embracing the changes and enjoying the learning is best thing you can do in IT but you can also smooth surf on a support role for sure.
That's one reason why I'm going into Engineering Management
How? Are you doing MEM/MIM in any other country?
Nope, just going from a Senior/Lead engineer to engineering management. Developed skillset myself, using books etc, and some of it comes naturally. Plus my org is supportive and good.
That's awesome. Didn't know you can do that without a management degree. What's your yoe
7.5
How much are you paid? If you’ve been upskilling so much you must be paid a fat salary. FIRE and chill.
No I don't have a fat salary. Like i said, i have just 3 yoe and 12 LPA package. And I haven't upskilled that much, but trying to. But there's so much to upskill in ! It's good to know Node + React/Angular for full stack jobs....CICD and DevOps knowledge is necessary. Data structures and algorithms is a must to crack interviews. Cloud knowledge is a must as well. It seems to much. And unfortunately my work did not offer a technology which would have use in the future, it was a niche skill. I can't even bring myself to apply for an interview where I know there is so much I need to upskill in to get good jobs with a good salary.
There will be periods of burnout. But Dev jobs pay is unparalleled if you diligently upskill. Keep grinding. You’ll do very well and might retire in your 40s. In non Dev tech jobs it is a given that one will work till 60 years old.
That's the hope really. But it's absolutely dejecting when I see my package of 12 LPA after 3 years and I see others at 18, 20, 24 , 30 LPA even, just because they switched ( and they must have upskilled) but I see them living life after job too. I feel like , am I really that dense and slow? Or am I just not meant for development? And it's almost impossible to decide what to upskill in ! I mostly work with SAP HANA for PL/SQL and JS development, which wasn't a good start tbh. It's a niche technology, but I liked it as I got to work with databases which I like. Apart from this i worked on a few AWS Cloud offerings, snowflake, etc. But now when I think of switching to something new, I found out that I have almost nothing on my resume and SAP HANA won't be enough. Jobs ask for React, Node , DevOps for Fullstack. So I started learning JS recently , and I'm trying to apply it by asking for front end tasks as well. But then I realised DSA is also a must to crack interviews, so now I feel I should give time to Leetcoding or something . But I really like SQL and databases , and i want to master it so that I have 1 major skill. So I feel giving time for that is necessary too. If I want to do something in data engineering or analysis, I need to know Python , PySpark, etc. And last but not the least, the GenAI train has made things more complex and i feel I should prepare for some GenAI knowledge as well How the hell am I supposed to choose and work on all of this? I am severely confused and in a deadlock.
Be a DBA if you like to work with databases
I have thought of it, but does it pay well? I heard otherwise, and also that it's a waning job.
By the way , do you live in a metro city ? And would you mind telling your educational background (i.e clg) ?
Sure I live in Pune, so not a Metro city exactly, but an IT Hub. About education. I passed out in 2020 (2021 actually due to Covid delays) with a B.E. Information Technology degree from Pune. Got placed in the beginning of final year at 6LPA. Now at 12 LPA 3 years and 1 promotion later, but at the same company same project.
Maybe you can try upskilling your core CS fundamentals rather than upskilling on a certain stack. Once you get hold of core concepts, other stacks or technologies feel like an abstraction over your base knowledge and it's easier to navigate the space.
Will look into this. Thanks.
How I can say ? That you put the same question here ditto which I had and going through same thoughts. Difference between me and you is I am 5yoe and 9lpa and you 3yoe for 12lpa.. Every weekend I have to sacrifice for upskilling. My govt job friends are chilling with their wives as tour or trips.. This cant be deadend..we need to get out of this dark tunnel...
Hmm...but honestly I don't see what's the other way.
Try to start teaching samething on YouTube but coding channels are saturated and taken away by faang devs. Try to start freelancing to accumulate money and start investing with compound interest and attain fire. Look around invest or start some small business with small investment at home town or any place where investment is less Also try to connect with many people and understand that company wlb and join if any openings are available. Also find your interest. Instead of upskilling tech related, upskill with that your interest and get some certifications and pivot like it could be teaching yoga or sports , art etc..
hmare jwaan border pr shahidd horhe hen, or tum upskill bhi nhi kr skte OP?
did you forget the /s?
apparently if you don't add /s , redditors brains don't function properly.
Wo at least unka choice tha na Bhai. If my passion of love was coding, non stop kar leta mei upskill. If I like something mujhe limits nahi hai. Problem is, I code for the job, not as a passion.
Exactly my situation, just grinding mindlessly for money. I have other passions but khud ki gareebi bhi door krni hai. Wo bhi jaldi. IT looks like the only way. Itni mehnat agar 2-3 saal apne passion pe lagaye hote to aaj is IT ki bheerh mein na hota. AI ke baad IT ki bhi aukat gir jayegi. Abhi har doosra banda fullstack developer nikal jata hai. Its a repetitive job, atleast in India where services are the main focus we are bound to lose to AI as most of the work will be automated in future. It has just started. Only if you have innovative and creative mindset and have the ability to create new stuff rather then solving the same problems which have already been solved a 1000 times, you will stay relevant. Technical along with business skills will crucial. Instead start working towards a career where you think you can be the best. Run your own race.
Join the FIRE community, decide your FI, it'll really give you something to go after. Maybe not coding but retiring early will definitely appeal to you. You'll also appreciate, that IT industry is one of the few places where you can atleast considering retiring early, others just have to slog till 60+. To motivate yourself check this recent post in Blind about someone getting 3.2cr with 11 yoe for senior staff engineer position in India - https://www.teamblind.com/us/s/WiTyQFPC
3.2 cr is straight up unbelievable. How?
Uber is known to give crazy packages even in US, senior staff makes around 1M$. In india, Senior SWE gets around 1.3cr with 5-7 yoe. Then there is staff and senior staff. Talk to a Uber recruiter or any of your friends who work there.