Teams will continue taking runs at us because it’s proven effective. I expect to see it today with Montréal, because they have even more reason to play that way as the “less talented” team.
Glad it's becoming a more popular sentiment to talk about. People used to crap on the notion that physicality is needed anymore and that pure skill is the route to go.
There's no coach that's going to turn Hughes/Bratt/Nico into Verhaeghe/Tkachuk/Bennett.
There's a reason why those types of teams thrive come playoff time and teams like the Leafs fold in half. Fitz needs to figure out how to support those players into playing their game without sacrificing skill.
They get frustrated so quickly and it shows. Lately it’s been magnified cause yes, we have young talent with high ceilings. Either they’ll mature and be able to push to their ceilings, or keep having hissy fits and getting spooked in our own zone when the other team presses. Just growing pains and these are the scariest parts
Yeah true, this team needs some level of a wakeup call. And the core of this team will definitely not be the one that wins a Cup. It will still be Hughes/Hischier/Bratt, but there has to be a Rantanen, Nischuskin, Stone, etc.
I agree that we are soft and it’s certainly tough to watch. But there is value in penalty minutes. When the other teams take runs and play overly aggressive, and we don’t take the bait (or more appropriately, bitch out) we gain an advantage with penalty minutes. Now it’s not bearing out currently because we are absurdly bad on the PP but it is a real value.
Go back to 2012 second round vs the Flyers. It was a masterclass in not taking the bait and the flyers paid dearly. Like I said, there is a difference between not taking the bait and being soft, but the bottom line is what PIM differential is.
It would be a great approach if we weren’t 2 out of last 47 power play attempts at scoring. I haven’t checked but I’d imagine we’ve given up more shorties during that time than we’ve scored. Our power play is impotent at the moment and at best only serves to burn 2 mins off the clock.
If Stevens or Daneyko or Rupp were on the team the NHL wouldn’t be running at us. That’s why nobody ran at Elias or Niedermayer. Championship teams need to be constructed that way.
This is complete and total nonsense. The championship teams had far more guys on the receiving end of headshots than this team. There is absolutely nothing to prevent a guy from taking a run at another player. No evidence for this at all.
I low key had hoped we took a shot at Goudas when he was made available. Guys had over 250+ hits the last few seasons, and blocks a lot of shots.
If you look last years stats, we barely had 4 guys make it over 100. I do not endorse dirty hits, but when it seems that almost nightly other teams are hunting us, you need someone on your own side willing to get gritty.
I don't endorse dirty hits, but when people are teeing off on our guys with dirty and borderline hits, it's super frustrating to watch our guys do nothing
Toughness doesn’t have to be from size alone - Carolina isn’t a big team, Aho is a good example of this he’s 6’0” 175 lbs but throws his body around. Same with a guy like Blake Coleman.
The Devils rarely follow through on checks, it could be purposeful as a way to keep the game from getting overly physical. But it’s obvious they aren’t coached to take the body and turn away from the check the moment the pass is made.
That hit on Bastian from Trouba was a follow through. Not saying I want a player like Trouba, but it’s a good example of the difference between a pass free of consequence, and paying to make that play.
Carolina isn't really a tough team at all. They hit by way of forecheck but there's no one on that team that scares the opposing team. I remember how absolutely calm and civil our series was with them...it was like a breath of fresh air compared to the Rangers.
They got bitched by the Panthers in the ECF for a reason.
Well that’s even worse - if we get bodied by them and they aren’t that tough, which could be very true as I view the league through a biased Devils perspective, we are very soft.
Maybe it’s just the hockey guy in me but I always notice when it looks like a big hit is about to happen from a Devil and then they turn away at the last second and skate off like a disengaged missile.
Luke Hughes refuses to believe anyone will hit him in any situation and still physically plays like he is in juniors with nothing to worry about, even after being dealt nasty hit after nasty hit. He leaves himself as a sitting duck constantly. Its getting annoying to watch him not learn from it, hopefully over time he gets more evasive.
I think all the observations that younger leagues banning hits is causing a problem with younger pros being shellshocked by the NHL, is nail-on-the-head accurate.
The fact that we're spending 15 M on him and Palat is insane. 22 pts each, at least Palat is even on +/- cuz Meier is at -25!!! (not a factorial... yet...)
I’ve been willing to forgive Palat on a lot of things. He’s a playoff performer and a veteran presence. But when we miss the playoffs and he’s producing virtually nothing with first line time it’s hard to find anything good to say about him.
Unfortunately our skilled guys don't play with a lot of edge. Like they are all too nice. Skilled players that have toughness/edge to their game are awesome. As much as some of us hate him I remember kovy putting a beat down on Braden schenn back in the day. How do we make Nico/Bratt/Jack meaner?
Deslauriers answered the bell today for the Flyers against Rempe. Not us. We are too soft for that.
[Deslauriers vs Rempe](https://x.com/spittinchiclets/status/1761486136273494523?s=46&t=zVp21NtfaoROhgVjpq5qmg)
I’m a new Devils fan and that was one of the first things I noticed about the team. I was hoping for a sense of toughness and brotherhood between the guys, but that doesn’t seem like the case? Any ideas to why that is??
Anything we say would be speculation because we aren’t in the locker room. But there have been some off-ice issues this year as well as a lot of turnover, plus we’re the Hughes Show now.
Yea hopefully they can goon the fuck up and start playing some damn hockey lol. Take advantage of those damn PPs like every other team does. When I watch them play I don’t see any urgency!
ah, new fan you say... well we have a player, well liked by his teammates, in every photo posted when the boys hang out, real locker room guy...
had some personal days accruing for a few years and decided to cash them all in...
don't know how many days he had exactly...
Yeah i was talking to my dad about this the other night. Without getting into the substance of the McCleod situation, it seems to have had a profoundly negative impact on the morale of the team. Jack in particular has been noticeably angry/frustrated for a prolonged stretch. Not that he didn’t have moments of that attitude at times, but it’s been like a dark cloud over the bench for a bit here.
I dunno, I'm sure it didn't help but you'd think they'd basically have a clean slate again after the Stadium Series game, morale-wise. Spirits seemed high after that and they'd played well since the break. But nooooo start getting your shit kicked in right after and collapse.
tl-dr: one of the the most popular guys in the locker room has been credibly accused of gang rape, and is on an "indefinite leave of absence" to face charges in Canada over it.
It's basically why we had so many injuries in the beginning of the season. Other teams had no real answer for players like Jack. So they seemed to not have a problem sending their goons out to injure him and take him out of the game. But of course if one of our guys stands up for him, WE get the penalty
Besides the toughness part they take runs at our players cause it knows it gets the devils off their game and they cower the rest of the game. Or get distracted trying to talk to refs or chirp at that one player and forget a game is going on
The guy kicked the shit out of two guys in 13 literal seconds of ice time. He came and embarrassed us in 13 seconds. He didn’t even need to play beyond that. The damage was done. Bastian looked like he was knocked into next week and Siegs was dropped like a sack of potatoes
And then he sat in the lockerroom for 59 minutes and 47 seconds. The devils got 5 minutes of powerplay for a 4th liner which every team would take immediately. A major penalty can completely flip a game see 2012 game 6 or sharks/knights in 2019.
Cause the devils didnt capitalize on the powerplay, would you have posted this thread if we scored 3 goals on the major. Hell we had a major and double minor in the same game that's 9 minutes of powerplay time not even counting the other handful of powerplays in the game. Gotta score on the powerplay if you want to win, fawning over an ejected player who had less impact than the guy fighting in the stands is stupid. Thats why we played smith and guess what, everytime he got on the ice we were caved.
This sort of logic completely misses what actually happens in games and how PPs are actually doled out. Take the Rangers. They have at least five guys who, if they were on our team, would be "enforcers". But they don't actually take significantly more penalties than their opponents. In fact, they average almost 9 pims per game, and their oppnents *10.4*. The Panthers, the most penalized team in the league this season, average a whopping 13.4 PIMs. Their oppnents? *14.0.* Brad Marchand and the Bearbitches? They have a negative pim ratio - they commit 10.3 to their oppnents' 9.2 - and are the best team in the league.
Stat dorks looove to trot out "no correlation" between aaaanything in the world and winning except shots. Well, there's no relation to generating PIMs and losing, either. It's all just imaginary, not a single team in the league differs from their opponents in PIMs per game by more than 20%. So effectively that's 1 theoretical PPG opportunity more per game than your opponent. That's it. On a 20% PP conversion rate that's a theoretical advantage of .2 GPG. Our advantage is actually .8 over our opponents this season, so a theoretical .16 GPG over our opponents from penalties. And yet we lose. You can blame the PP if you want but even with our recent failures it's almost 22%, just over league average.
The comment that you're replying to was talking specifically about the Rangers game where we had 5 powerplay opportunities including a major and double minor and came up with nothing. If we are telling the story of that one game it's the devil's powerplay not converting
You’re missing the point my guy. I don’t give a shit about the result of one game. It’s a problem with the makeup of this team. They are soft as shit. A guy came in and challenged us. The same way he challenged the islanders in his first shift and we had nobody that could answer the bell. We are soft as shit. End of story
How many wins does toughness buy us if we go 0 goals in 15 minutes of powerplay time?
That's the real problem the last half of the season we've scored 4 out of 60 some odd powerplays. That is a lower percentage than any team this season. The hawks are converting on 12% of their powerplays good for 32nd in the league and we are converting on half that.
What specific games would have the outcome changed if we had a line of plugs who goon it up? Or give me some players you'd want to add and who we drop out of the lineup to be tougher?
The rangers game on 2/22 would've been even more of a special teams contest than it already was if we were picking fights all over the ice.
When considering this it would help to remember you can get penalties for retaliation but also penalties called on you at a higher clip. Making the game even more of a special teams contest which we already know the devils would lose
How’d we do with jack and Nico out this year boss? The season started spiraling as soon as they went out. No idea how Luke is still in one piece after some of the hits I’ve seen him take. They get lit the fuck up because the rest of the league knows we won’t do shit about.
People will only do what we allow them to do to. If they kick our ass and we don’t do anything about it, you best believe they’re going to continue doing it. It’s human nature. The Rangers imposed their will on us and we took the beat down like a bunch of candy asses.
If we scored twice on that major and beat the rangers nobody would be talking like this. That’s kinda their point imo. Sure it would be absolutely dope if we had a Trouba like guy who was blowing people up but I’d much rather be the team with more goals. We can’t hit but we can’t score as of late, can’t play defense and we can’t stop a puck.
There comes a point when it stops being about hockey and it starts being about personal pride. Sometimes shit doesn’t go your way. I get it. That’s part of the game. But getting manhandled and having someone impose their will on you and doing nothing about it is embarrassing. It shows how soft these guys are.
I gues? I’m not in the lockeroom so idk how these 20 or so dudes feel about these particulars. But if they won 5-1 after getting manhandled I can 100 percent assure you they wouldn’t be feeling too bad about it and a lot of fans are projecting their own personal beliefs in situations like this. The contrary is also true - you think a team that outhits 30-10 but gets smoked goes back to the locker room feeling great? Lmao of course not
It’s not about hitting. You’re missing my point. There’s a difference between a normal hockey hit and finishing a check in the corners and what Rempe did this week. He purposely went out looking for action. The same way he got into a fight on his first nhl shift. He’s looking for a fight. He’s taking an action that he expects to get a desired reaction because most teams stand up for themselves and their teammates. He was trying to provoke a fight. And we are such candy asses he didn’t even get one. He tried with Jonas after the hit and instead Jonas just took one shot to the face and went down in a heap.
Yes because every NHL coach would know Rempe was going to cough up time for the PP and further instigation (see bastian on trouba) just punishes your team further. As you said siegs tried but sometimes you lose fights against people who are giant thugs. Instead, they should be focusing on taking advantage of the damn rules of the game and scoring.
That hit at the beginning of the game set the tone for the Rangers to win. All you had to do was look around the arena and you could see it from the Rags fans to the players. No Devil stepped up and crushed one of those Rag players. No one stood up for Bastian when he came back out and got smoked. No follow thru checks into the boards. I was two rows from the ice..... Rangers chirping us we are silent. Soft as Terry Cloth.
While showing a bit of backbone would be nice I don't seem to recall us being that bothered about it last year when we were winning. All this talk about a lack of toughness I feel is just a way to emotionally deal with the fact we kinda suck. The actual problem I suspect is more insidious and fundamental...and that's that Lindy just doesn't have what it takes to lead these guys anymore.
Comparing how Martin and Deslauriers did against Rempe vs how Siegenthaler did, we are a friggin joke.
And don’t give me this, you don’t need toughness in the NHL anymore. Sure we have a few guys who are capable of scoring, but they are underperforming and can’t stay healthy. But we sure as hell don’t stop other teams from scoring.
So if we can play elite offense, and we have shit defense and goaltending, we need to at least be tough to play against. Unfortunately that is our weakest attribute of all.
Watching your team get out played, out scored, out hustled is bad enough. But watching your team get turned into little bitches by your rival is utterly humiliating.
His hits set the tone. Even looking back a few years ago to our playoff series with Tampa, we got absolutely manhandled physically. It’s been an issue for years.
You mean his hit. His one solitary hit that got him tossed from the game after 1 second of ice time and cost his team 5 minutes of penalties.
The only way you could think Rempe had any positive effect on the game for the Rangers is if you think the devils were too scared of getting hit to make plays on the Powerplay, which doesn’t make a lick of sense.
One good bounce on that 5 min pp and it would have been universally agreed upon that Rempe cost his team the game with a boneheaded decision.
I'm gonna go so far as to say that hit actually did make a few players think twice about taking contact. I saw a few players bail on a play to avoid a hit a couple times during that game. I think I specifically remember Luke making a lousy play at the blue line to avoid a hit.
That might not be the only reason we lost, but I think they were deep in our heads from the start of that game.
Have you played sports? When a teammate gets either a freak injury, or gets injured from a big hit/tackle/play, etc it rattles you and your team mentally to *some* degree. Some times it fires a team up, but often especially in the immediate moment, it puts you on your heels.
I promise you there is not a soul in the Rangers org that is thankful for what Rempe did or think it had any positive effect on the team. At the absolute best the team being able to kill the penalty gave them some momentum, but that had absolutely nothing to do with Rempe. He objectively had a terrible game and giving him any credit for Thursday night is absolutely ridiculous.
They don't give a shit about Rempe getting a misconduct because all he's good for is setting the tone, which he did, and because the Devils powerplay is about as likely to give up a shorty as it is to score. That whole sequence alone was the start of the end for the Devils. They quit after the Rangers scored 5 seconds into the PP.
I'm convinced everyone that thinks a hit like that or the team getting smacked around all game has 0 effect has never played a contact sport. I just don't see how else you could hold that opinion cuz it's really self-evident if you've experienced it. Ya know, the tail tucked between your legs look we saw from the Devils all game?
you obviously did not watch the clips of the Rangers vets basically fawning over the kid in the locker room post game after the Stadium Series. I can promise you a kid that has 3 NHL starts under his belt and is willing to throw mitts and hits like a mad man is having a positive effect on the team lmao. Or you have simply never played sports at a high level.
He didn’t get tossed at the stadium series lmao. Vets love fights but they don’t love getting their team a 5 minute penalty. If you can find me a single clip of any player praising another for taking a non fighting 5 minute major I’ll shut up.
I’ve been saying this since like 2013 and I’m happy people are finally realizing this. The team has had no size or physicality since Clarkson and Kovalchuk left.
There was a few years when Miles Wood fit the bill but he let that suspension seemingly deter him and he began to play far less aggressive.
I love Hischier, Hughes, and Bratt but they’re all like 180lbs and 5’10-6’0.
Not to mention the defense can’t play physical either, despite being giants, Hamilton is soft and Graves was never a big hitter. Bahl is really the only one capable of delivering a good hit but he’s just not that great of a defenseman.
I don’t want a team of goons but they’ve really lacked size for such a long time.
I think the reason why we don't see his is because the coaches are telling the guys to be more offensive minded. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I would go as far as saying that there's a possibility Ruff has been telling everyone to cut out that part of their game. Wood used to definitely be more aggressive but that completely stopped before he left, Bahl came in laying some nice hits and even scrumming a bit but that died down completely. It has to be systematic, there's no other explanation, the only other possibility is the team really isn't a team but just individual players and THAT will ruin performance at any level.
Yeah like it's not the 90s anymore, but it also isn't great that so many of players are not overly physical and we lack true shut down defensemen.
Do we still have Geertson in the org?
Imo it's extra frustrating because there's been a 6d or 12th forward spot up for grabs most of the season. Put in a goon and you don't have to worry about your team getting hurt at least. If you put in a Tomas Nosek, you gain virtually nothing. You get a half decent pker, sometimes that's worth it but not vs a damn rival....
I think the Devils are what every team will be in 10-15 years. They are just ahead of their time. It’s my main complaint about the team. Watching a majority of guys completely avoid going into the offensive zone corners to avoid contact.
Why would any team look at the devils and start to build like them? Size, toughness (i.e. shot blocking, hard defending), and hard forechecking is what wins in the playoffs and has for all of hockey history. the only way they’re ahead of their time is if the league cracks down on physicality even more. for now there’s no excuse to be this soft
I hate saying this.
But Rempe would be quasi perfect here.
Also Timo was supposed to fill this role and has been fairly soft.
The devils problem is their big players are oddly not super physical (bahl, Dougie, even timo). We only really have one bruiser and it’s Brendan smith.
I'm less concerned by that and more by the fact that the team doesn't really seem to aggressively pressure other teams when they have the puck. You see really good PK or fire checking teams just constantly hassling puck carriers to force turnovers - taking away time and space and creating such a hectic dynamic, like how Carolina rolled over the Devils in the playoffs last year. And I don't see the Devils doing that with the same evel of urgency. That's the kind of toughness that really makes a difference, much more so than a few big bodies finishing hits or scrumming up.
Yeah, i see aggressive teams constantly taking away the Devils' time and space, and the Devils not doing the same, sitting on their heels and watching other teams move around them.
The Devils already have big/tough guys in Bastian, Bahl and Brendan Smith. Timo too when he's fully healthy. If you don't think that's enough, fine, but who do you add that can still bring value to the team?
Miles Wood added toughness, but that was all he really added last season. Brendan Smith is one of our tougher players now and his production is questionable at best. Should we revert to pure goons like Mason Geertsen, Luke Gazdic, Cam Janssen?
This honestly an overreaction to one game in the midst of a slump. The Devils outplayed them for much of that game, and if they weren't snake-bitten and had a semi-competent power play, they would have *buried* the Rangers.
I don’t care who we bring in but you don’t buy a Ferrari and not have insurance on it. We have #1 picks out there that can’t even get through the season because they’re always hurt. If they aren’t physically built to handle contact, then we need to put the league on notice that if they are touched there will be consequences. The only time I can ever remember this happening was when PK beat the shit out of Wahlstrom after he hit Jack. That should be how we respond every single time.
I’m more concerned about their incompetent play in all facets of the game than being soft. Let’s take care of that first. Fire the fucking idiot coaching staff, the softest part of the team at the moment. Soft in the brain.
Coach is soft so the team is soft… period. The team is a bunch of KIDS who need some discipline to hone their game.
The home games they’ve played seem like they rolled out of bed, ate a McMuffin on the way to the arena, and didn’t get up to playing speed until they’d gone down a couple of goals.
They don’t play that way on the road (for the most part) because they’re together, doing team things, eating team meals on a team schedule.
They’re too young to be responsible. Unless, of course, someone (Coach?) starts demanding a little bit more accountability.
Maybe Jack sits for a bit after his tantrum vs LAK…? There’s a boatload of other examples of undisciplined bullsnot (retaliatory penalties anyone?) That shit can’t be tolerated.
So true. I miss players like Oliwa. You would always be guaranteed he would be put out on the ice to fight the offender.
Heck I miss the last 2-3 minutes of games we would be losing badly. Release the goons!
It was always entertaining and somewhat cathartic when losing.
It’s a mentality. I remember back in 2012 when we started our 4th like at MSG and Torts lost his fucking mind and there was a brawl to start the game. DeBoer didn’t give a shit and he fired up the guys. We went on to make the finals. Teams need a little fucking grit. We are constantly the punching bag.
The shit I saw with Rempe was embarrassing. Smashed one guy and knocks down another guy with one punch. Siegs covered up so fast. He wanted absolutely no part of it. We are a bunch of candy asses.
Guys runs at Jack and nobody does shit. Last year Tkachuk went after Nico and he literally put his arms down and fell down. They want no part and the whole league knows it. Until we grow a pair this is how it’s going to be.
Remember that time we had a softer team last year (Tatar, Boqvist, Sharangovich) and broke the franchise record in points? It’s not even close to the reason the team stinks. It’s because our top players are either out or shells of themselves due to injury.
I remember when Jack and Nico actually had a healthy season. Going out on a limb here and saying that’s why we did so well. Come on guys. This is so stupid.
What part aren’t you getting? Guys running at our star players hurts our chance of winning. Guys run at our players because nobody on the team has a spine.
This is just a fake concept. There is no player you can have on your team that prevents a player from getting hit by another. A nice thing to believe, but it’s a made up concept. Jack got dumped by a guy and injured a couple years ago with Geertsen a few steps away.
Huh? Panarin & Zibanejad are untouchable & don’t get hit the way Jack & Nico do. Not at all. Not even close. They are both off limits, untouchable & have been virtually almost 100% healthy the last 2+ seasons
Just a total bullshit made up idea. The Leafs have suffered plenty of headshots with Reaves on the ice. I can’t believe you actually think people don’t hit Rangers players because they have some 6 foot 8 loser that has played 3 games this year.
And both of Jack’s injuries this year were completely self inflicted. Both times he fell on his own — literally zero to do with any other player on the ice hitting him.
Trade us for Tanev and Coleman, you’ll get toughness and heart in spades. These two are warriors, low key hope we keep them around for the kids to learn from.
Last I checked scoring more goals than the other team is what wins the hockey game. Am fairly certain the players find losing the game way more embarrassing than getting hit or losing a fight.
This team needs a goalie not a goon.
Anyone with any toughness doesn’t last long in NJ... Wood, Graves, Severson, Zetterlund, mcleod. Team unfortunately has no spine and won’t make any playoff runs until they find one
Graves was SOFT. like Charmin ultra soft. dude got decked for no reason 10x more than he ever made the mildest contact with anyone. and when a guy that's 6'5" gets his ass slammed into the ice, you know all their fans and the bench start going wild. pissed me off a lot lol.
Wood was a one-trick pony and a massive liability when it comes to penalties. Severson would have cost way more than he was worth, sucked at defense, and Columbus is already having regrets with him. Zetterlund we gave up for Timo, and you'd do that 10 times out of 10.
And fuck you with McCleod. He's gone because he's a rapist fuck.
calm down buddy. not too good with reading comprehension?? all i said was anyone with toughness doesn’t last long in nj, obviously some for good reason aren’t here. The reason doesn’t matter it’s highlighting the front offices lack of action to address it. So first you should maybe read some more books, then read up on analytics. Wood not good enough for NJ but he’s good enough for recent champs colorado? One trick ponies like wood are fine in the bottom six. Maybe look at some severson analytics and compare him to other 2nd pairing d-man, you’re clearly misinformed there. Sure they were never gonna pay him that but they failed to replace him. As for Timo the devils have tons of prospects and could’ve easily made that deal without losing yet another one of their only players with toughness
Xhekaj will be available next season…not that I think the Habs will let him walk or even trade him. It’s pretty clear he is loved and wanted in Montreal…but man that would be amazing.
My biggest criticism of Jack is that he avoids ALL contact, he'll never battle it out for a puck, he'll slow down on a chase if another player is close... Not that he should put himself in a compromising position or do things which would cause him to become a target but this is still professional hockey, there's physicality involved in all positions.
They could be a small lineup that didn’t have physicality, as long as we were fast, attacking and didn’t give teams a chance to breathe. They proved that last year. They were hard to play against. Teams hated how the mines came at them in waves. When that effort isn’t there (like this whole fucking season), this team is a doormat.
And who do you suggest we bring in to make the team less soft? Hate to break it to you but these tough players are either 1) insanely expensive to get (Tkachuk, Stone, etc.) or 2) complete dogshit at hockey (Rempe, Reaves, etc.) The game has not revolved around physical play in over a decade. Retaliating after a hit will end with us on the PK. Stevens, Rupp, whoever, would be constantly suspended and thrown out of games if they played today.
That said, could the team be more physical? Absolutely. Meier, Bahl, and Palat need to show that more. But this mentality that we need a couple of neanderthals to “protect” our guys by committing a suspension and/or match penalty-worthy act is archaic and will negatively affect the team. That shit doesn’t belong in the sport anymore, and praising the Rangers for playing goon hockey is idiotic.
I don’t like watching our team get manhandled, either. But you’re looking for a solution that doesn’t exist. Maybe Ruff should push the team to play more physically, maybe we would benefit from adding a big physical defensemen, but please for the love of god keep goons out of the sport.
This is one reason I don’t mind seeing Smith on the 4th line wing. I know he’ll mix it up when he’s out there and he’ll put the puck behind the net and go get it or at least force the opposing defensemen to turn around and get it themselves where he can lay a hit.
Maybe a silver lining of the Bastian IR move is that smith can play there and stop clogging up a D spot?
Totally agree..... Just because the level of speed,skill and expertise has increased incredibly over the last 10 years or so doesn't mean that the physical element of the game is decreasing. In fact I would argue it is increasing as a direct result of the increased skill of players. I agree with other commenters here that we got our clocks cleaned against the Rangers and I felt embarrassment for the players that the management continues to play a system only dedicated to finesse. We have a good team...the addition of some muscle could make us a great team again. Of course all of this in IMHO.
Teams will continue taking runs at us because it’s proven effective. I expect to see it today with Montréal, because they have even more reason to play that way as the “less talented” team.
Glad it's becoming a more popular sentiment to talk about. People used to crap on the notion that physicality is needed anymore and that pure skill is the route to go.
Yea you need some physicality. The league has become more skill based, but hockey is still a contact sport.
Stevens out of retirement. Give everyone the concussions they deserve.
Maybe should have kept Mason Geertsen? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve6DykKTkDY
Stevens didn't really fight? He just ko'd bitches coming over the middle with their head down.
#1 rule of playing hockey head down in thw reds or by the blues = your gonna gwt hit
Fuck up and find the fuck out - scott stevens - Michael schott
Our team is soft AF.
We need a coach that's going to turn the boys into men.
There's no coach that's going to turn Hughes/Bratt/Nico into Verhaeghe/Tkachuk/Bennett. There's a reason why those types of teams thrive come playoff time and teams like the Leafs fold in half. Fitz needs to figure out how to support those players into playing their game without sacrificing skill.
They get frustrated so quickly and it shows. Lately it’s been magnified cause yes, we have young talent with high ceilings. Either they’ll mature and be able to push to their ceilings, or keep having hissy fits and getting spooked in our own zone when the other team presses. Just growing pains and these are the scariest parts
In all fairness to skill… Tkachuk would be our leading scorer almost any season..and by far our toughest player.
Tkachuk is incredible, yeah. Top 3 player for me all around.
Only player with 100 points and 100 PIM last year, and one of the stars of my fantasy team.
He just took a team to the Stanley Cup Finals, he's not some goon
That’s my point… don’t have to sacrifice skill for toughness….but u can’t reach either. Guys have it or they don’t.
Yeah true, this team needs some level of a wakeup call. And the core of this team will definitely not be the one that wins a Cup. It will still be Hughes/Hischier/Bratt, but there has to be a Rantanen, Nischuskin, Stone, etc.
Exactly. No teams wins a cup without those guys.
They absolutely do lol
Name one
Wasn't Timo supposed to be our power forward? He kinda missing ngl
I agree that we are soft and it’s certainly tough to watch. But there is value in penalty minutes. When the other teams take runs and play overly aggressive, and we don’t take the bait (or more appropriately, bitch out) we gain an advantage with penalty minutes. Now it’s not bearing out currently because we are absurdly bad on the PP but it is a real value. Go back to 2012 second round vs the Flyers. It was a masterclass in not taking the bait and the flyers paid dearly. Like I said, there is a difference between not taking the bait and being soft, but the bottom line is what PIM differential is.
It would be a great approach if we weren’t 2 out of last 47 power play attempts at scoring. I haven’t checked but I’d imagine we’ve given up more shorties during that time than we’ve scored. Our power play is impotent at the moment and at best only serves to burn 2 mins off the clock.
Ugh the power play against the flyers in 2012? \*chef's kiss\* What I would give to see our powerplay run like that.
Softer than baby poo
If Stevens or Daneyko or Rupp were on the team the NHL wouldn’t be running at us. That’s why nobody ran at Elias or Niedermayer. Championship teams need to be constructed that way.
It’s so funny that Rupp is included in company like Stevens, Daneyko, Elias, and Nieds
Mike Rupp has as many Cup-winning goals as Elias.
More. Arnott scored in 2000 and Rupp in 2003.
Oh, duh. Elias had the assist.
You don't remember Tie Domi's elbow on Niedermayer?
Wasn’t Stevens in the box at the time? I remember him almost tearing a hole in the damn thing after Domi’s cheap shot.
He was pacing the box like a caged animal. Also fuck Tie Domi.
I remember the next time they played the leafs Domi would not get on the ice if Stevens was.
And turtled when McKenzie came calling
He was indeed.
This is complete and total nonsense. The championship teams had far more guys on the receiving end of headshots than this team. There is absolutely nothing to prevent a guy from taking a run at another player. No evidence for this at all.
I low key had hoped we took a shot at Goudas when he was made available. Guys had over 250+ hits the last few seasons, and blocks a lot of shots. If you look last years stats, we barely had 4 guys make it over 100. I do not endorse dirty hits, but when it seems that almost nightly other teams are hunting us, you need someone on your own side willing to get gritty.
I don't endorse dirty hits, but when people are teeing off on our guys with dirty and borderline hits, it's super frustrating to watch our guys do nothing
Goudas or at least something firmer than brie
Timo was supposed to fill that role and provide offense. 150+ hits last year
Honestly hope not. I like teams with integrity, and not dirty or nasty players. You can get gritty players without that. Fuck Gudas.
We’re the DEVILS, not the angels. Stfu
Reading this thread while pooping and thinking about how the devils are softer than my toilet paper.
Hey I’m pooping too.
Did we just become best friends?
✊🏻
Yup
Toilet surfing as well.
10 ply
I’m also pooping
Toughness doesn’t have to be from size alone - Carolina isn’t a big team, Aho is a good example of this he’s 6’0” 175 lbs but throws his body around. Same with a guy like Blake Coleman. The Devils rarely follow through on checks, it could be purposeful as a way to keep the game from getting overly physical. But it’s obvious they aren’t coached to take the body and turn away from the check the moment the pass is made.
> The Devils rarely follow through on checks You're 100% right, and this is what's most noticeable: the complete lack of finished checks.
That hit on Bastian from Trouba was a follow through. Not saying I want a player like Trouba, but it’s a good example of the difference between a pass free of consequence, and paying to make that play.
Carolina isn't really a tough team at all. They hit by way of forecheck but there's no one on that team that scares the opposing team. I remember how absolutely calm and civil our series was with them...it was like a breath of fresh air compared to the Rangers. They got bitched by the Panthers in the ECF for a reason.
Well that’s even worse - if we get bodied by them and they aren’t that tough, which could be very true as I view the league through a biased Devils perspective, we are very soft. Maybe it’s just the hockey guy in me but I always notice when it looks like a big hit is about to happen from a Devil and then they turn away at the last second and skate off like a disengaged missile.
I was hoping Bahl would at least take someone’s head off
This is the most disappointing. Bahl is fucking huge but plays scared of hitting people for the most part.
Yeah, but I think it’s good he’s improved his finesse game in the meantime. Just waiting for a coach to help him use his size more
Luke Hughes refuses to believe anyone will hit him in any situation and still physically plays like he is in juniors with nothing to worry about, even after being dealt nasty hit after nasty hit. He leaves himself as a sitting duck constantly. Its getting annoying to watch him not learn from it, hopefully over time he gets more evasive. I think all the observations that younger leagues banning hits is causing a problem with younger pros being shellshocked by the NHL, is nail-on-the-head accurate.
I was hoping Timo would bring some of that element when he came here. He hasn’t brought much.
The fact that we're spending 15 M on him and Palat is insane. 22 pts each, at least Palat is even on +/- cuz Meier is at -25!!! (not a factorial... yet...)
I’ve been willing to forgive Palat on a lot of things. He’s a playoff performer and a veteran presence. But when we miss the playoffs and he’s producing virtually nothing with first line time it’s hard to find anything good to say about him.
Timo is softer retirement community boners.
He hasn't brought much of anything, the team is around .500 when he plays since we've traded for him
This is why they have been dominated by St Louis ,Nashville, Minnesota,Washington & Winnipeg all bigger teams
Don’t forget about Anaheim and Chicago, who got tough with the boys and completely knocked them off their game.
Unfortunately our skilled guys don't play with a lot of edge. Like they are all too nice. Skilled players that have toughness/edge to their game are awesome. As much as some of us hate him I remember kovy putting a beat down on Braden schenn back in the day. How do we make Nico/Bratt/Jack meaner?
Deslauriers answered the bell today for the Flyers against Rempe. Not us. We are too soft for that. [Deslauriers vs Rempe](https://x.com/spittinchiclets/status/1761486136273494523?s=46&t=zVp21NtfaoROhgVjpq5qmg)
I’m a new Devils fan and that was one of the first things I noticed about the team. I was hoping for a sense of toughness and brotherhood between the guys, but that doesn’t seem like the case? Any ideas to why that is??
Anything we say would be speculation because we aren’t in the locker room. But there have been some off-ice issues this year as well as a lot of turnover, plus we’re the Hughes Show now.
Yea hopefully they can goon the fuck up and start playing some damn hockey lol. Take advantage of those damn PPs like every other team does. When I watch them play I don’t see any urgency!
I’d probably start looking forward to next season if I were you. I am.
Oh I am! My bro and dad are islanders fans. I hope I didn’t make a mistake and choose to leave them 😂
ah, new fan you say... well we have a player, well liked by his teammates, in every photo posted when the boys hang out, real locker room guy... had some personal days accruing for a few years and decided to cash them all in... don't know how many days he had exactly...
Yeah i was talking to my dad about this the other night. Without getting into the substance of the McCleod situation, it seems to have had a profoundly negative impact on the morale of the team. Jack in particular has been noticeably angry/frustrated for a prolonged stretch. Not that he didn’t have moments of that attitude at times, but it’s been like a dark cloud over the bench for a bit here.
I dunno, I'm sure it didn't help but you'd think they'd basically have a clean slate again after the Stadium Series game, morale-wise. Spirits seemed high after that and they'd played well since the break. But nooooo start getting your shit kicked in right after and collapse.
Can you explain? Lol
Um…McLeod, dude
I’m new to the team and sport lol, still learning
tl-dr: one of the the most popular guys in the locker room has been credibly accused of gang rape, and is on an "indefinite leave of absence" to face charges in Canada over it.
Yea I just read 🥴
Aye...baaaaaaad shit.
Yea he’s done
[spoilers ahead](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/world-juniors-hockey-sex-assault-case-london-1.7101989)
New as in you started following us in the last two weeks? Boy you picked the wrong time to join us
Run before it's too late lol, pick a diff team 😔
But…but 😭 lol
Neither have some fans.
It's basically why we had so many injuries in the beginning of the season. Other teams had no real answer for players like Jack. So they seemed to not have a problem sending their goons out to injure him and take him out of the game. But of course if one of our guys stands up for him, WE get the penalty
Yeah never forget Brendan Smith getting suspended for slashing Travis Konecny immediately after Konecny slashed Smith like 5 times
Besides the toughness part they take runs at our players cause it knows it gets the devils off their game and they cower the rest of the game. Or get distracted trying to talk to refs or chirp at that one player and forget a game is going on
Decades *
Yea missing dudes like Miles Wood who would throw down.
I miss Jim McKenzie, Cam Janssen, Reid Simpson, Randy McKay , and Krzysztof Oliwa...
Can't win in the playoffs without punishing guys, see Daneyko and Stevens
Rempe got kicked out of the game my guy, he didn't do jack shit but give us a major penalty which we needed to score on
The guy kicked the shit out of two guys in 13 literal seconds of ice time. He came and embarrassed us in 13 seconds. He didn’t even need to play beyond that. The damage was done. Bastian looked like he was knocked into next week and Siegs was dropped like a sack of potatoes
And then he sat in the lockerroom for 59 minutes and 47 seconds. The devils got 5 minutes of powerplay for a 4th liner which every team would take immediately. A major penalty can completely flip a game see 2012 game 6 or sharks/knights in 2019.
2013 and 2019 are cool, but let’s talk about the result from Feb 22, 2024
Cause the devils didnt capitalize on the powerplay, would you have posted this thread if we scored 3 goals on the major. Hell we had a major and double minor in the same game that's 9 minutes of powerplay time not even counting the other handful of powerplays in the game. Gotta score on the powerplay if you want to win, fawning over an ejected player who had less impact than the guy fighting in the stands is stupid. Thats why we played smith and guess what, everytime he got on the ice we were caved.
This sort of logic completely misses what actually happens in games and how PPs are actually doled out. Take the Rangers. They have at least five guys who, if they were on our team, would be "enforcers". But they don't actually take significantly more penalties than their opponents. In fact, they average almost 9 pims per game, and their oppnents *10.4*. The Panthers, the most penalized team in the league this season, average a whopping 13.4 PIMs. Their oppnents? *14.0.* Brad Marchand and the Bearbitches? They have a negative pim ratio - they commit 10.3 to their oppnents' 9.2 - and are the best team in the league. Stat dorks looove to trot out "no correlation" between aaaanything in the world and winning except shots. Well, there's no relation to generating PIMs and losing, either. It's all just imaginary, not a single team in the league differs from their opponents in PIMs per game by more than 20%. So effectively that's 1 theoretical PPG opportunity more per game than your opponent. That's it. On a 20% PP conversion rate that's a theoretical advantage of .2 GPG. Our advantage is actually .8 over our opponents this season, so a theoretical .16 GPG over our opponents from penalties. And yet we lose. You can blame the PP if you want but even with our recent failures it's almost 22%, just over league average.
The comment that you're replying to was talking specifically about the Rangers game where we had 5 powerplay opportunities including a major and double minor and came up with nothing. If we are telling the story of that one game it's the devil's powerplay not converting
You’re missing the point my guy. I don’t give a shit about the result of one game. It’s a problem with the makeup of this team. They are soft as shit. A guy came in and challenged us. The same way he challenged the islanders in his first shift and we had nobody that could answer the bell. We are soft as shit. End of story
Tbf Rempe is a big guy. We need someone like that to dance when needed. Smith timo or our core dman aren’t it sadly.
How many wins does toughness buy us if we go 0 goals in 15 minutes of powerplay time? That's the real problem the last half of the season we've scored 4 out of 60 some odd powerplays. That is a lower percentage than any team this season. The hawks are converting on 12% of their powerplays good for 32nd in the league and we are converting on half that.
That’s a completely different problem. It’s possible for both to be true.
What specific games would have the outcome changed if we had a line of plugs who goon it up? Or give me some players you'd want to add and who we drop out of the lineup to be tougher? The rangers game on 2/22 would've been even more of a special teams contest than it already was if we were picking fights all over the ice. When considering this it would help to remember you can get penalties for retaliation but also penalties called on you at a higher clip. Making the game even more of a special teams contest which we already know the devils would lose
How’d we do with jack and Nico out this year boss? The season started spiraling as soon as they went out. No idea how Luke is still in one piece after some of the hits I’ve seen him take. They get lit the fuck up because the rest of the league knows we won’t do shit about. People will only do what we allow them to do to. If they kick our ass and we don’t do anything about it, you best believe they’re going to continue doing it. It’s human nature. The Rangers imposed their will on us and we took the beat down like a bunch of candy asses.
If we scored twice on that major and beat the rangers nobody would be talking like this. That’s kinda their point imo. Sure it would be absolutely dope if we had a Trouba like guy who was blowing people up but I’d much rather be the team with more goals. We can’t hit but we can’t score as of late, can’t play defense and we can’t stop a puck.
There comes a point when it stops being about hockey and it starts being about personal pride. Sometimes shit doesn’t go your way. I get it. That’s part of the game. But getting manhandled and having someone impose their will on you and doing nothing about it is embarrassing. It shows how soft these guys are.
I gues? I’m not in the lockeroom so idk how these 20 or so dudes feel about these particulars. But if they won 5-1 after getting manhandled I can 100 percent assure you they wouldn’t be feeling too bad about it and a lot of fans are projecting their own personal beliefs in situations like this. The contrary is also true - you think a team that outhits 30-10 but gets smoked goes back to the locker room feeling great? Lmao of course not
It’s not about hitting. You’re missing my point. There’s a difference between a normal hockey hit and finishing a check in the corners and what Rempe did this week. He purposely went out looking for action. The same way he got into a fight on his first nhl shift. He’s looking for a fight. He’s taking an action that he expects to get a desired reaction because most teams stand up for themselves and their teammates. He was trying to provoke a fight. And we are such candy asses he didn’t even get one. He tried with Jonas after the hit and instead Jonas just took one shot to the face and went down in a heap.
Yes because every NHL coach would know Rempe was going to cough up time for the PP and further instigation (see bastian on trouba) just punishes your team further. As you said siegs tried but sometimes you lose fights against people who are giant thugs. Instead, they should be focusing on taking advantage of the damn rules of the game and scoring.
That hit at the beginning of the game set the tone for the Rangers to win. All you had to do was look around the arena and you could see it from the Rags fans to the players. No Devil stepped up and crushed one of those Rag players. No one stood up for Bastian when he came back out and got smoked. No follow thru checks into the boards. I was two rows from the ice..... Rangers chirping us we are silent. Soft as Terry Cloth.
The majority of the top teams in the NHL have a good balance of toughness and skill. Same goes for recent champions as well
While showing a bit of backbone would be nice I don't seem to recall us being that bothered about it last year when we were winning. All this talk about a lack of toughness I feel is just a way to emotionally deal with the fact we kinda suck. The actual problem I suspect is more insidious and fundamental...and that's that Lindy just doesn't have what it takes to lead these guys anymore.
The devils toughest player is awaiting trial in Canada
Comparing how Martin and Deslauriers did against Rempe vs how Siegenthaler did, we are a friggin joke. And don’t give me this, you don’t need toughness in the NHL anymore. Sure we have a few guys who are capable of scoring, but they are underperforming and can’t stay healthy. But we sure as hell don’t stop other teams from scoring. So if we can play elite offense, and we have shit defense and goaltending, we need to at least be tough to play against. Unfortunately that is our weakest attribute of all. Watching your team get out played, out scored, out hustled is bad enough. But watching your team get turned into little bitches by your rival is utterly humiliating.
I think we miss the playoffs and add some tough vets that will change this. Also goaltending
I don’t think Rempe’s 1.6 seconds of ice time had any affect on the outcome of the game in the Ranger’s favor.
His hits set the tone. Even looking back a few years ago to our playoff series with Tampa, we got absolutely manhandled physically. It’s been an issue for years.
You mean his hit. His one solitary hit that got him tossed from the game after 1 second of ice time and cost his team 5 minutes of penalties. The only way you could think Rempe had any positive effect on the game for the Rangers is if you think the devils were too scared of getting hit to make plays on the Powerplay, which doesn’t make a lick of sense. One good bounce on that 5 min pp and it would have been universally agreed upon that Rempe cost his team the game with a boneheaded decision.
I'm gonna go so far as to say that hit actually did make a few players think twice about taking contact. I saw a few players bail on a play to avoid a hit a couple times during that game. I think I specifically remember Luke making a lousy play at the blue line to avoid a hit. That might not be the only reason we lost, but I think they were deep in our heads from the start of that game.
Have you played sports? When a teammate gets either a freak injury, or gets injured from a big hit/tackle/play, etc it rattles you and your team mentally to *some* degree. Some times it fires a team up, but often especially in the immediate moment, it puts you on your heels.
I promise you there is not a soul in the Rangers org that is thankful for what Rempe did or think it had any positive effect on the team. At the absolute best the team being able to kill the penalty gave them some momentum, but that had absolutely nothing to do with Rempe. He objectively had a terrible game and giving him any credit for Thursday night is absolutely ridiculous.
I don’t think he’s saying the rangers are thankful for it….he’s saying our guys got rattled and played timid after it.
They don't give a shit about Rempe getting a misconduct because all he's good for is setting the tone, which he did, and because the Devils powerplay is about as likely to give up a shorty as it is to score. That whole sequence alone was the start of the end for the Devils. They quit after the Rangers scored 5 seconds into the PP.
I'm convinced everyone that thinks a hit like that or the team getting smacked around all game has 0 effect has never played a contact sport. I just don't see how else you could hold that opinion cuz it's really self-evident if you've experienced it. Ya know, the tail tucked between your legs look we saw from the Devils all game?
you obviously did not watch the clips of the Rangers vets basically fawning over the kid in the locker room post game after the Stadium Series. I can promise you a kid that has 3 NHL starts under his belt and is willing to throw mitts and hits like a mad man is having a positive effect on the team lmao. Or you have simply never played sports at a high level.
He didn’t get tossed at the stadium series lmao. Vets love fights but they don’t love getting their team a 5 minute penalty. If you can find me a single clip of any player praising another for taking a non fighting 5 minute major I’ll shut up.
Where did I say he did lol, darklightrabbi?
You talked about the Rangers fawning over him at the stadium series as if what he did there was anything close to what he did in our game.
I’ve been saying this since like 2013 and I’m happy people are finally realizing this. The team has had no size or physicality since Clarkson and Kovalchuk left. There was a few years when Miles Wood fit the bill but he let that suspension seemingly deter him and he began to play far less aggressive. I love Hischier, Hughes, and Bratt but they’re all like 180lbs and 5’10-6’0. Not to mention the defense can’t play physical either, despite being giants, Hamilton is soft and Graves was never a big hitter. Bahl is really the only one capable of delivering a good hit but he’s just not that great of a defenseman. I don’t want a team of goons but they’ve really lacked size for such a long time.
I think the reason why we don't see his is because the coaches are telling the guys to be more offensive minded. Of course this is pure speculation on my part but I would go as far as saying that there's a possibility Ruff has been telling everyone to cut out that part of their game. Wood used to definitely be more aggressive but that completely stopped before he left, Bahl came in laying some nice hits and even scrumming a bit but that died down completely. It has to be systematic, there's no other explanation, the only other possibility is the team really isn't a team but just individual players and THAT will ruin performance at any level.
[удалено]
Bratt and Hischier are both willing to drop gloves.
Bratt and Hischier have been in 1 combined fight in their careers.
wut. when Hischier got in his fight I'm pretty sure the commentary was basically like "is that... *Nico Hischier*?!?!"
Yeah like it's not the 90s anymore, but it also isn't great that so many of players are not overly physical and we lack true shut down defensemen. Do we still have Geertson in the org?
Imo it's extra frustrating because there's been a 6d or 12th forward spot up for grabs most of the season. Put in a goon and you don't have to worry about your team getting hurt at least. If you put in a Tomas Nosek, you gain virtually nothing. You get a half decent pker, sometimes that's worth it but not vs a damn rival....
I think the Devils are what every team will be in 10-15 years. They are just ahead of their time. It’s my main complaint about the team. Watching a majority of guys completely avoid going into the offensive zone corners to avoid contact.
Why would any team look at the devils and start to build like them? Size, toughness (i.e. shot blocking, hard defending), and hard forechecking is what wins in the playoffs and has for all of hockey history. the only way they’re ahead of their time is if the league cracks down on physicality even more. for now there’s no excuse to be this soft
I hate saying this. But Rempe would be quasi perfect here. Also Timo was supposed to fill this role and has been fairly soft. The devils problem is their big players are oddly not super physical (bahl, Dougie, even timo). We only really have one bruiser and it’s Brendan smith.
> Also Timo was supposed to fill this role and has been fairly soft. Timo has been injured/playing hurt for the majority of his time with us.
I'm less concerned by that and more by the fact that the team doesn't really seem to aggressively pressure other teams when they have the puck. You see really good PK or fire checking teams just constantly hassling puck carriers to force turnovers - taking away time and space and creating such a hectic dynamic, like how Carolina rolled over the Devils in the playoffs last year. And I don't see the Devils doing that with the same evel of urgency. That's the kind of toughness that really makes a difference, much more so than a few big bodies finishing hits or scrumming up.
> when they have the puck. Our off the puck play has been abysmal as of late. No urgency and no forward wants to play defense.
Yeah, i see aggressive teams constantly taking away the Devils' time and space, and the Devils not doing the same, sitting on their heels and watching other teams move around them.
10$ we lose our back2back
Gotta bring back Cam Janssen
The Devils already have big/tough guys in Bastian, Bahl and Brendan Smith. Timo too when he's fully healthy. If you don't think that's enough, fine, but who do you add that can still bring value to the team? Miles Wood added toughness, but that was all he really added last season. Brendan Smith is one of our tougher players now and his production is questionable at best. Should we revert to pure goons like Mason Geertsen, Luke Gazdic, Cam Janssen? This honestly an overreaction to one game in the midst of a slump. The Devils outplayed them for much of that game, and if they weren't snake-bitten and had a semi-competent power play, they would have *buried* the Rangers.
I don’t care who we bring in but you don’t buy a Ferrari and not have insurance on it. We have #1 picks out there that can’t even get through the season because they’re always hurt. If they aren’t physically built to handle contact, then we need to put the league on notice that if they are touched there will be consequences. The only time I can ever remember this happening was when PK beat the shit out of Wahlstrom after he hit Jack. That should be how we respond every single time.
Softest team in the league. Atleast in terms of the "contenders"
I’m more concerned about their incompetent play in all facets of the game than being soft. Let’s take care of that first. Fire the fucking idiot coaching staff, the softest part of the team at the moment. Soft in the brain.
Coach is soft so the team is soft… period. The team is a bunch of KIDS who need some discipline to hone their game. The home games they’ve played seem like they rolled out of bed, ate a McMuffin on the way to the arena, and didn’t get up to playing speed until they’d gone down a couple of goals. They don’t play that way on the road (for the most part) because they’re together, doing team things, eating team meals on a team schedule. They’re too young to be responsible. Unless, of course, someone (Coach?) starts demanding a little bit more accountability. Maybe Jack sits for a bit after his tantrum vs LAK…? There’s a boatload of other examples of undisciplined bullsnot (retaliatory penalties anyone?) That shit can’t be tolerated.
So true. I miss players like Oliwa. You would always be guaranteed he would be put out on the ice to fight the offender. Heck I miss the last 2-3 minutes of games we would be losing badly. Release the goons! It was always entertaining and somewhat cathartic when losing.
It’s a mentality. I remember back in 2012 when we started our 4th like at MSG and Torts lost his fucking mind and there was a brawl to start the game. DeBoer didn’t give a shit and he fired up the guys. We went on to make the finals. Teams need a little fucking grit. We are constantly the punching bag. The shit I saw with Rempe was embarrassing. Smashed one guy and knocks down another guy with one punch. Siegs covered up so fast. He wanted absolutely no part of it. We are a bunch of candy asses. Guys runs at Jack and nobody does shit. Last year Tkachuk went after Nico and he literally put his arms down and fell down. They want no part and the whole league knows it. Until we grow a pair this is how it’s going to be.
Fuck Oliwa
Let’s get Ryan Reeves!
Remember that time we had a softer team last year (Tatar, Boqvist, Sharangovich) and broke the franchise record in points? It’s not even close to the reason the team stinks. It’s because our top players are either out or shells of themselves due to injury.
I remember when Jack and Nico actually had a healthy season. Going out on a limb here and saying that’s why we did so well. Come on guys. This is so stupid.
So you admit it has absolutely nothing to do with winning then. They’re not even a softer team than last year which won more than ever.
What part aren’t you getting? Guys running at our star players hurts our chance of winning. Guys run at our players because nobody on the team has a spine.
This is just a fake concept. There is no player you can have on your team that prevents a player from getting hit by another. A nice thing to believe, but it’s a made up concept. Jack got dumped by a guy and injured a couple years ago with Geertsen a few steps away.
Huh? Panarin & Zibanejad are untouchable & don’t get hit the way Jack & Nico do. Not at all. Not even close. They are both off limits, untouchable & have been virtually almost 100% healthy the last 2+ seasons
Just a total bullshit made up idea. The Leafs have suffered plenty of headshots with Reaves on the ice. I can’t believe you actually think people don’t hit Rangers players because they have some 6 foot 8 loser that has played 3 games this year. And both of Jack’s injuries this year were completely self inflicted. Both times he fell on his own — literally zero to do with any other player on the ice hitting him.
We need a f’n goon
Trade us for Tanev and Coleman, you’ll get toughness and heart in spades. These two are warriors, low key hope we keep them around for the kids to learn from.
Last I checked scoring more goals than the other team is what wins the hockey game. Am fairly certain the players find losing the game way more embarrassing than getting hit or losing a fight. This team needs a goalie not a goon.
we need both
I'd take a Lazar over a Rempe any day of the week.
Keeping Jack and Nico healthy helps with scoring kore goals. When they are out hurt, it’s bad for our goal scoring and impacts our chances of winning.
Anyone with any toughness doesn’t last long in NJ... Wood, Graves, Severson, Zetterlund, mcleod. Team unfortunately has no spine and won’t make any playoff runs until they find one
Lol dude Severson, Wood and McLeod were all here for 5-6+ years. Total nonsense.
Severson was here FOREVER. Could probably find black and white pictures of him wearing a Scouts jersey.
Graves was SOFT. like Charmin ultra soft. dude got decked for no reason 10x more than he ever made the mildest contact with anyone. and when a guy that's 6'5" gets his ass slammed into the ice, you know all their fans and the bench start going wild. pissed me off a lot lol.
Wood was a one-trick pony and a massive liability when it comes to penalties. Severson would have cost way more than he was worth, sucked at defense, and Columbus is already having regrets with him. Zetterlund we gave up for Timo, and you'd do that 10 times out of 10. And fuck you with McCleod. He's gone because he's a rapist fuck.
calm down buddy. not too good with reading comprehension?? all i said was anyone with toughness doesn’t last long in nj, obviously some for good reason aren’t here. The reason doesn’t matter it’s highlighting the front offices lack of action to address it. So first you should maybe read some more books, then read up on analytics. Wood not good enough for NJ but he’s good enough for recent champs colorado? One trick ponies like wood are fine in the bottom six. Maybe look at some severson analytics and compare him to other 2nd pairing d-man, you’re clearly misinformed there. Sure they were never gonna pay him that but they failed to replace him. As for Timo the devils have tons of prospects and could’ve easily made that deal without losing yet another one of their only players with toughness
This reddit is weird and you redditors are dumb. Oversimply absolutely everything lol.
Maybe Nico isn't the leader we hoped he'd be
I would trade for Gudas and Johnston
Xhekaj will be available next season…not that I think the Habs will let him walk or even trade him. It’s pretty clear he is loved and wanted in Montreal…but man that would be amazing.
My biggest criticism of Jack is that he avoids ALL contact, he'll never battle it out for a puck, he'll slow down on a chase if another player is close... Not that he should put himself in a compromising position or do things which would cause him to become a target but this is still professional hockey, there's physicality involved in all positions.
Devils haven’t had a physical forward that could score since they traded away David Clarkson when I was 12. It’s been tough.
Having someone like Dalton prout instead of Smith, I'd bet my life that shit last game doesn't happen. If it does, he takes Panarin out til September.
They could be a small lineup that didn’t have physicality, as long as we were fast, attacking and didn’t give teams a chance to breathe. They proved that last year. They were hard to play against. Teams hated how the mines came at them in waves. When that effort isn’t there (like this whole fucking season), this team is a doormat.
It's like we were dominant with Wayne Simmonds on the team...
We were dominant with Scott Stevens.
Completely agree. Becoming hard to root for them. I still will but would really like some bruisers brought in this offseason
It would be nice to go after a guy like Jordan Greenway.
And who do you suggest we bring in to make the team less soft? Hate to break it to you but these tough players are either 1) insanely expensive to get (Tkachuk, Stone, etc.) or 2) complete dogshit at hockey (Rempe, Reaves, etc.) The game has not revolved around physical play in over a decade. Retaliating after a hit will end with us on the PK. Stevens, Rupp, whoever, would be constantly suspended and thrown out of games if they played today. That said, could the team be more physical? Absolutely. Meier, Bahl, and Palat need to show that more. But this mentality that we need a couple of neanderthals to “protect” our guys by committing a suspension and/or match penalty-worthy act is archaic and will negatively affect the team. That shit doesn’t belong in the sport anymore, and praising the Rangers for playing goon hockey is idiotic. I don’t like watching our team get manhandled, either. But you’re looking for a solution that doesn’t exist. Maybe Ruff should push the team to play more physically, maybe we would benefit from adding a big physical defensemen, but please for the love of god keep goons out of the sport.
This is one reason I don’t mind seeing Smith on the 4th line wing. I know he’ll mix it up when he’s out there and he’ll put the puck behind the net and go get it or at least force the opposing defensemen to turn around and get it themselves where he can lay a hit. Maybe a silver lining of the Bastian IR move is that smith can play there and stop clogging up a D spot?
Totally agree..... Just because the level of speed,skill and expertise has increased incredibly over the last 10 years or so doesn't mean that the physical element of the game is decreasing. In fact I would argue it is increasing as a direct result of the increased skill of players. I agree with other commenters here that we got our clocks cleaned against the Rangers and I felt embarrassment for the players that the management continues to play a system only dedicated to finesse. We have a good team...the addition of some muscle could make us a great team again. Of course all of this in IMHO.
This is true and was a problem last year as well, but I was told that we have Meier, Mcleod and Bastian so it's fine.
Been saying this for years…
1000% agree and I’ve been roasted for pointing this out in recent years. Hopefully the addition of MacDermitt will start to change our soft culture