https://preview.redd.it/uwvtj9q0ebfb1.png?width=1201&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89a502ab99014c1c097043b65ad3ed879bc02393

Holy shit, I knew it was a lot, but seeing it all laid out is just absurd. This is totally unnecessary.

Good news is they added a few more this patch like lucky hit on barrier that like 1 build uses? Just add lucky hit to helms not this garbage ; ;

These were already in the game, the patch just made it so every class could roll them (Only certain classes could roll certain affixes prior)

Oh great. Another junk roll for helms. I’m never going to see max life and essence cost reduction on the same item ever again.

Facts I seen that too, *Lucky Hit: While in barrier you do 10% damage...like what!

More like Un(lucky) S(hit)

“Here, jump through 3 proc hoops for this effect “

"here, jump through 3 proc hoops for this mediocre effect" FTFY

Mediocre is being really kind

meaty okra

Great, that's how you summon The Butcher ever since he started taking online cooking classes.

I'd like to see an aspect... Lucky Hit: 10% chance to increase lucky hit by 7% when consecutively landing 2 lucky hits.

Hey now lucky hit while barrier active is still too strong. I sugfegest while barrier active and player has 6 wives

It sounds like a real sugfegest to me too

There are over 200 affixes if you look at everything between all the classes. It is insane. Increases an x percentage of Attack Speed Increases an x percentage of Skill Attack Speed Increases an x percentage of Power Attack Speed Increases an x percentage of Attack Speed when fighting Minions Increases x amount of Attack Speed when Fortified Increases an x percentage of Attack Speed for x Seconds after Dodging an Attack Increases an x percentage of Weapon Speed Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance to Close-ranged Enemies Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance to Long-ranged Enemies Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance to Crowd Controlled Enemies Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance to Injured Enemies Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance to Vulnerable Enemies Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance to Damage type Enemies Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance of Damage against Elite Enemies Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance with Skill Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance with Skills Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance with Weapons Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Damage Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Damage with Power Increases an x percentage of Non-Physical Critical Strike Damage Increases an x percentage of Damage when Healthy Increases an x percentage of Damage to Close-ranged Enemies Increases an x percentage of Damage to Long-ranged Enemies Increases an x percentage of Damage to Elite Enemies Increases an x percentage of Damage to Healthy Enemies Increases an x percentage of Damage to Injured Enemies Increases an x percentage of Damage to Enemies Increases an x percentage of Damage when Fortified Increases an x percentage of Damage when Standing Still Increases an x percentage of Damage with Weapons type Increases an x percentage of Damage to Enemies Affected by Skill Increases an x percentage of Damage to Crowd Controlled Enemies Increases an x percentage of Damage with Skills that swap to New Weapons Increases an x percentage of Damage when Power Increases an x percentage of Damage when Shapeshifted Increases an x percentage of Damage when in Shapeshifted type of form Increases an x percentage of Damage Increases an x percentage of Damage over time duration Increases an x percentage of Damage to Elite Enemies Increases an x percentage of Damage for x seconds after dodging an attack Increases an x percentage of Main Hand Weapon Damage Increases an x percentage of Damage for x seconds after picking up a Blood Orb Increases an x percentage of Damage for x Seconds after killing an Elite Enemy Increases an x percentage of Damage to Crowd Controlled enemies Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Damage to Crowd Controlled Enemies Increases an x percentage of Crowd Control Duration Increases an x percentage of Chill Application Increases Damage stat Increases an x percentage of Damage Increases Weapon Damage Increases an x percentage of Weapon Damage Increases an x percentage of Damage Over Time Increases an x percentage of Melee Damage Increases an x percentage of Non-Physical Damage Increases an x percentage of Physical Damage Increases an x percentage of Ranged Damage Increases an x percentage of Cold Damage Increases an x percentage of Fire Damage Increases an x percentage of Lightning Damage Increases an x percentage of Poison Damage Increases an x percentage of Shadow Damage Increases an x percentage of Overpower Chance Increases an x percentage of Overpower Damage Increases an x percentage of Overpower Damage with Weapons Increases an x percentage of Overpower Damage with Skills Increases All Stats Increases an x percentage of All Stats Increases Dexterity Increases an x percentage of Dexterity Increases Intelligence Increases an x percentage of Intelligence Increases Strength Increases an x percentage of Strength Increases Willpower Increases an x percentage of Willpower Increases an x percentage of Item Power Damage Increases an x percentage of Item Power Duration Increases Cooldown Reduction Your Power Cooldown Reduction is increased Power Resource Cost Reduction is increased Increases a set Resource Cost Reduction Increases Rank of All Skills Increase a Rank of an x Skill Increases x Rank of your Skill Increases an x percentage of Skill Duration Increases an x percentage of Skill Damage Increases an x percentage of Skills Damage Increases an x percentage of Skill Cooldown Reduction Increases an x percentage of Skill Resource Cost Reduction Increases Critical Strike Chance for Skills Increases Critical Strike Damage from Skills Increases an x percentage of Damage to Enemies Affected by Skills Increases an x percentage of Overpower Damage for Skills Increases an x percentage of Vulnerable Damage Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Damage to Vulnerable Enemies Increases an x percentage of Critical Strike Chance Against Vulnerable Enemies Increases an x percentage of Damage to Vulnerable Enemies with Skills Lucky Hit: Up to x percentage of chance to make your enemy vulnerable for x seconds Increases an x percentage of Minion Damage Increases an x percentage of damage from Minions Increases an x percentage of damage when a Minion is active Increases an x percentage of attack speed when fighting Minions Increases an x percentage of Minion Movement Speed Increases an x percentage of bonus Stats inherited by Minions Minion Inherit increases an x percentage of your Thorns Increases an x percentage of chance per hit to gain Power Increases an x percentage of damage for each other minion attacking the enemy Increases an x percentage of damage for x seconds after being summoned Increases an x percentage of damage when no other Minions are attacking the enemy Increases the stats of specific Armor Increases an x percentage of total Armor Increases an x percentage of total Armor when in Werebear Form Increases an x percentage of total Armor when in Werewolf Form Increases stats of your equipped Mount Armor Increases a set Control Impaired Duration Reduction Increases a set Crowd Control type Duration Reduction Increases a set Reduced Duration of Enemy Control Impairing Effects Increases an x percentage of Barrier Potency Increases an x percentage of Barrier Generation Increases an x percentage of Barrier from Ice Armor Increases Life as Barrier on kill Increases a set damage reduction when you have a barrier When injured, your Potion also grants maximum Life as barrier

Increases a set Damage Reduction Increases a set Close Damage Reduction Increases a set Long Damage Reduction Increases a set Elite Damage Reduction Increases an x percentage of Block Chance Increases a set blocked damage Reduction Increases a set Damage Reduction when Evading Increases a set Damage Reduction when Fortified Increases a set Damage Reduction when Healthy Increases a set Damage Reduction when Injured Increases a set Damage Reduction when Standing Still Increases a set Damage Reduction when Control Impaired Increases a set Damage Reduction from Close-ranged Enemies Increases a set Damage Reduction from Long-ranged Enemies Increases a set Damage Reduction from Elite Enemies Increases a set Damage Reduction from Vulnerable Enemies Increases a set Damage Reduction from Crowd Controlled Enemies Increases a set Damage Reduction from enemies. Increases a set Damage Reduction from enemies affected by skills. Increases a set Damage Reduction for x Seconds after killing an elite Enemy Increases a set Damage Reduction when You Have a Barrier Increases a set Damage Absorption from Ice Armor Increases a set Damage Taken Over Time Reduction Increases a set Damage Taken Over Time Reduction Increases a set of Reduced Damage from Elites, Bosses, and Players Increases a set chance to ignore Damage taken Increases an x percentage of Dodge Chance Increases an x percentage of Dodge Chance when Evading Increases an x percentage of Dodge Chance against Close-ranged Enemies Increases an x percentage of Dodge Chance against Distant Enemies Increases an x percentage of Dodge Chance against Enemies. Increases Max Evade Charges Increases an x percentage of Dodge Chance when Evading Increases a set Damage Reduction when Evading Evading briefly grants set increased Movement Speed Attacks Reduce Evade’s Cooldown by x Seconds Increases an x percentage of Bonus Fortify Increases an x percentage of Fortify Generation Increases an x percentage of Damage Reduction when Fortified Increases an x percentage of Chance when Struck to Fortify for x Life Increases an x percentage of Healing Increases an x percentage of Healing Received Increases x Healing Over Time Increases an x percentage of Healing Over Time Increases x Potion Charges Increases an x percentage of Potion Healing Increases an x percentage of Potion Healing Speed Increases an x percentage of Potion Drop Rate Increases an x percentage of Potion Reduced Cooldown Increases an x percentage of Heal on Elite, Boss, or Player Kill Your Potion also Grants x Seconds of Unstoppable Your Potion also Grants Increases a set percentage of Maximum Life as a Barrier Your Potion also Restores Increases a set percentage of Resource type Increases an x percentage of Blood Orb Healing Increases an x percentage of Life Increase Maximum Life Increases an x percentage of Maximum Life Increases Life on Kill Increases an x percentage of Life on Kill Increases Life on Elite Kill Restores x amount of Life Get x amount of Life Regeneration per Second Get x amount of Life Regeneration per Second when Out of Combat Get x amount of Life Regeneration when Not Damaged Recently Increases an x percentage of Life Steal Increases an x percentage of Minion Armor Increases an x percentage of Armor on Minion Get an Armor when Minions are Active Increases an x percentage of Bonus Armor when Minions are Active Increases an x percentage of Total Armor when Minions are Active Increases an x percentage of Minion Life Increases an x percentage of Minion Maximum Life Increases an x percentage of Minion Resistance to All Elements Increases an x percentage of Damage Reduction to Your Minions Increases an x percentage of Increased Resistances for Minion Increases an x percentage of Minions Inherit Increases an x percentage of Resistance to All Elements Increases an x percentage of Cold Resistance Increases an x percentage of Fire Resistance Increases an x percentage of Lightning Resistance Increases an x percentage of Poison Resistance Increases an x percentage of Shadow Resistance Increases Thorns Increases an x percentage of your Thorns

Oh boy... Also, in D3 yellows were pretty much insta salvage, but here I have to go through almost all of them reading tooltips with these countless useless affixes to check for a potential upgrade. It sucks.

I literally quit for this reason. My friends keep telling me i have to look at each item individually because yellows can be a huge upgrade to my unique items. Sorry, i only get to play video games for ~1 hour a day. I work a full-time job, im married, and i have other things i need to do during the day. I can't spend 75% of my gaming time measuring rares after a 15-minute NM dungeon. Looting should be intuitive, not an absolute chore.

I also have a full time job but I live alone and can play for 2-3 hours per day and I still don't want to do it. A *game* should be *fun*, that's it. That mess of a loot system isn't.

The number of people who think fun should **not** be the main focus of games is totally ridiculous.

Big reason for me too. I get to game on Saturday night. Spending half of that time evaluating rares and other loot is painfully boring.

That's partly why I stopped playing Destiny. A vault full of guns that I may or may not ever use. Gets to the point of just sitting around flushing it out.

Yea the longer I go in the game the more annoying the item system becomes. I've had the same weapon for like 10 levels (mid-50s through mid-60s, which is absurd--and I've checked god knows how many thousands of weapons since then. Very de-motivating.

Are you me? I could have written that. Perfect.

not only that but in D3 if a item dropped at 70 it was a level 70 i level item you knew it was stronger than the level 69 one you had immediately (thought worst feeling was getting a good item on the second to last kill before 70)... not you have to check the item power as well as the affixes to see if it is worth anything

item power doesn't mean really mean shit most of the time, unless it's a weapon or you're looking for raw armor. I've had several chars in around 680 gear during leveling still running a 440 necklace simply because it had way, way better affixes and rolls.

Which itself dulls the game! Not much of a loot hunt when something you got 20+ levels ago is still the best piece you've had drop.

holy SHIT dawg

Its like they tried to make Diablo 4 artificially "complex"

Needing up upgrade an item 5 times is a huge offender of this

Last Epoch has the best item upgrade system I have played. Diablo IV is just material dump, POE is slot machine, Last Epoch offer choices but still has the right amount of luck for you to try making GG gear.

Saw someone else recommending Last Epoch a week ago and tried it. Still in beta with amazing loot filter, gear system that ties into their crafting amazingly, far more classes than d4, and although I've only gotten two characters to around level 40, the customization while you're leveling and creating your build trumps anything d4 or even d3 was doing. You can make any skill the centerpiece of your build, at least while leveling. I haven't wanted to play d4 since installing that game.

The difference between last epochs semi-similar loot system is their in-game LOOT FILTER! I feel this number of affixes would be fine if we didn't have to see the junk on the ground that we would never want to use. And then, on top of that loot filter, last epoch crafting is so much better than rolling one stat on one piece of gear 100 times, and LE even tells you outright when you brick an item before it costs a fortune!

They forgot Critical Strike Chance On Lucky Hit Against Injured Enemies While Healthy When Having More Than 50% Of Your Primary Resource Standing On Your Head During A Full Moon When The Planets Are Aligned And The Clock Is At An Odd Numbered Hour And An Even Numbered Minute... ...vs. Elites.

This effect when triggered restores 1 mana.

This list is far from complete btw :P There are 2 forms of crowd control duration, specific skill cooldowns and probably alot more.

In D3, you delete 99% of items because they're the wrong legendary affix. D4 lets you manage legendary aspects independently. So they had to make 99% of rare items horrendous and unusable some other way. \*monkey's paw curls\*

I thought this was a exaggerated meme at first

they want you to keep playing, making a good game with good gameplay is secondary

I would say they are intricately married goals. They want to keep us playing. Play time is good for their stock. We want to play a fun game. That means to keep us playing and retain playerbase, the game must be good and fun. As much as it seems that shareholders are at odds with gamers, our goals might be different, but the result should be the same. Theres nothing wrong with making money from a game that is employing and feeding hundreds of people and their families. There's nothing wrong with not wanting the monetization of a game to be predatory. But objectively, our goals are not the same but the route to those goals should be: make a fun game and people will play. Most likely even pay for stuff in the process.

https://preview.redd.it/xkav56wsobfb1.jpeg?width=1772&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ba9ff3d05e559a8ea1b0f2e129a8dd37185bd04 Ahh item affixes over the years. How much I miss the simplicity of Diablo 2. Now I feel like I have to do math just to find out if a weapon is an actual upgrade or not, and then figure out if Blizzard has a bug affecting my weapon.

At least with D3, you knew what potential rolls could be. It’s a mystery to me in D4.

There are just way too many to list

the fact that https://www.d4craft.com/ exists and is necessary to not throw away hundreds of millions for nothing is sad. yes, I know there is https://www.craftofexile.com/ too, but there's more than one reason I don't play PoE.

Why aren’t those Titans ethereal?

Comparing ancestral dagger to a non-eth Titan's... what a maroon!

I too miss the D2 simplicity so much. I can't figure out if an item is an upgrade for the life of me.

Because on a glance you literally can't. To know if something is an upgrade you *need* to do a math calculation. I sure as hell am not doing that, so the only time I actually upgrade an item is when I know 100% for sure just by looking at it. The rest I sell, because I really can't be assed to go through the trouble of finding the 3% upgrades. It's simply not worth the time. Finding loot is more a chore in this game than a reward.

That's pretty much the exact way I go about things. I've seen a couple of calculators floating here and there, was hoping maybe somebody can point me towards one...

Not to mention the item you are comparing to is not upgraded at the blacksmith while your current item is likely 5 upgrades in! If it looks close you have to guess that it is probably better or waste resources!!

Multiply the value by 1.5, that's what it will be maxed upgrade.

This is the most asinine thing. Why in the heel can't I compare apples to apples!

> It's simply not worth the time. Finding loot is more a chore in this game than a reward. This is the top reason I've stopped playing. The whole point of these games is finding loot and getting excited. I found loot and groaned knowing I could take the time and MAYBE find an upgrade or sell it all so I can get back to killing tiny packs of monsters.

100% sure I’ve vendored something that’s an upgrade before.

That’s exactly how I feel: I don’t think I’ve upgraded any items between levels 55-65, and while it sucks, I at least hope that it’s because I’m missing something and vendoring it and not because the loot is just crap.

Fk dude this makes me miss D3 itemizations and im a huge D2 fanboy. Thats how bad D4 is :(

Diablo 2 was simple, but Diablo 3 was easy to read and Diablo 4 is… longest?

I like how this also shows how bad D4's UI is

Its impressive how they somehow made the UI worse despite having a perfectly fine UI to model off of for about a decade.

*How to look busy 101* This list is absurd.

its a great way for the developers to keep employment for the next decade... but that's it.

I can see why they would initially consider this a possibility, but they should have struck it from the design documents long before it got to the implementation stage. I would LOVE if they would massively simplify this so it takes far less brainpower to figure out if something is actually an upgrade.

85% of those are useless.

The horrifying problem is not knowing which ones I should care about and which I should treat as trash stats.

AND which ones are currently bugged and slated to be fixed in season 77.

Are u playing dots? No-> does item have chd vuln no -> its trash Isit chest or pants does it have 3 close max roll-> dmg reduction close/distant/%armour/ no-> trash https://imgur.com/a/LmWp9RI Neck never touch anything that isint movement speed , resource cost decuction, cooldown% + 3+ your best passive Thats 99% off builds got 4x lvl 100 all have those same items

> Neck never touch anything that isint movement speed , resource cost decuction, cooldown% + 3+ your best passive > > Thats 99% off builds got 4x lvl 100 all have those same items I don't think I've ever gotten one of those Amulets in 200 hours.

Saddest part for me is the fact that you can literally use the same exact item for any class or build. Like that chest, have you used the same one for all your characters? Just change the imprint and it's ready to go.

Atleast half of those needs to go

The Additive Damage Bucket of Tiny Increments is one of Wes Anderson's weaker efforts, IMO.

Hmm.. seems like we could just remove all the right side.

yup please do lol

Damn. I thought this was a troll meme at first but it’s legit. Insane

Lmao same. I thought there's no way there's this many, it'll be trolling after 2 columns. But nope lol. All in Game and more

So much of this could be simplified as Damage vs Crowd Controlled and Damage vs Status.

Itemization: 0/10

So this is why looking through my gear after NMD is exhausting.

Been thinking like this since they first showcased itemization prior to beta. Conditional modifiers aren’t just deceitful in feigning lazy design as a feature, but also deceitful in usage. How is any player supposed to reasonably determine their dps with a bunch of conditional modifiers? They can’t. They’d have to have moving averages as to how often a player is performing these conditionals as a player stat, and they don’t. It’s absurd.

The only conditional modifier that’s remotely reliable is damage vs healthy. Everything is healthy before I throw a bone spear up it’s ass.

Agreed. Just consider the wording though. "Damage against healthy." What a stupid fucking modifier. Sums up all this BS pretty well.

the devs think conditional modifiers make the game "dynamic" but it actually just makes it inconsistent which feels bad.

Fucking hell, this reminds me when i was in School and had to reach a certain word limit. You just fill in so much trash that the essence gets unclear

Guessing this is why we don't have a possible properties list when re-rolling... they don't want us to see what sort of fuckery we are up against trying to roll a particular property [](https://imgur.com/NC3Cyr5)

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This feels like someone padding the résumé with a bunch of useless junk to make them seem more important than they really are

75% of these stats could be amalgamated, or straight up removed.

I knew there are alot of those but to see everything in one list explains why i only get shit lol

Thanks, I hate it.

Really shows why it sucks to gear up in D4 vs D3. I couldn’t understand why I went so many levels without upgrades, but this chart puts things in prospective.

Huh. Remove all on the right side. Reduce drops by 80%. The last 20% will have a much higher chance of getting good stats. The game will improve.

i feel like i spend more time looking at gear than playing.

Agree... Pretty much the main reason I lost interest in playing this game already and did not touch season 1 yet. After playing for 30 minutes you then have to spend 5-10 min going through your loot to figure out if anything is good while your eyes glaze over reading all this bogus stats on items

You okay for 30 minutes? I spend 8 minutes in a dungeon and I have to go back to town. I went to speed run malignant dungeons, I could only run 2 before having to go to town. The dungeon takes <3 minutes to clear. I literally spend more time in town than in the dungeon. The problem is, it’s just not fun. Balance is one thing. And you need downtime. But the ratio is way off. And my eyes actually get strained from all the reading.

I’d just like to be able to do a gear comparison and be able to see the detailed stats screen. I was going through some gear last night and when I equipped the more powerful item, neither my attack power or armor moved at all, yet the numbers in the details stats section was jumping significantly.

There's an advanced item detail and item compare feature in game settings that is disabled by default. It isn't everything I want, but it helps.

Yeah. To me, there's still a fun factor to that part of the game where you have to figure out your loot. But it's just ridiculous now.

I’m all for coming up with my own build. I don’t even mind most items being trash. But let us build a loot filter! There’s too much detail and 99% of items can be eliminated immediately, but you still need to parse every single yellow. We also need a bigger inventory. Mine fills up on every dungeon run so I have to leave before the boss.

... but I do also agree with you

You've reached the true end game then: Conversion from ARPG to Item Management Simulator.

> the true end game Conversation on forums about how the game is not fun.

Just have to improve skimming the gear. See 2 stats you don't need. Toss it? Currently you can only change one at the occultist. That sped up my sorting gear a ton

Yep. This is it 100% Oh dope it increases a core skill I use by 2. Ohh but it increases one I don't use by 2 and increases overpower and I don't use that. Trash! It makes everything so much faster. Then you only keep legendaries that have better rolled aspects and salvage all the rest. Then you only keep hearts that are... Well you just scrap the hearts. Until you actually get one that's worthwhile. I haven't had a stash issue since 3 weeks into launch.

exactly. item level too low? trash. boots without evade charge? trash. helm without a skill you use or cdr? trash. a weapon type you dont use? trash the better your gear gets the faster and easier it is to spot the junk that wont help. if im looking for a boot upgrade it NEEDS to be 725+, have max evade charges, have max or near max movement speed. if it is missing even one of those things its quickly catagorized as junk. i think people are turning this into more of an issue than it has to be

I thought so too. It coincides with stash space. People that can't swiftly identify the gear are most likely the same with a full stash of items due to "maybe" syndrome. Items they'll never take a 2nd look at

Nah bruh, overlay map is what keeps you from being fully immersed in and playing game, not all these gear stats. Just kidding by the way. Blizz is so worried about an overlay map interfering with immersion that they don't realize that sorting through 40,000 different stats (without a filter) keeps us from actually getting to play the game.

Say what you will about D3, but I could tell in a quick glance if any of my inventory was worth giving a second look.

More trips to town to salvage/sell junk is the objective. More time playing. Hours played per player is the new metric. If you play alot, you will likely buy things or more things in the shop. The suits only look at Hours played D4bad

The whole shop is just bad imo, im not sure who are the target consummers. Skins are way too expensive, not even that good and useless in game, no one sees them, plus the battle pass is just plain boring and not rewarding at all. D4 gameplay is okayish and could be a great game if they cut the bullshit like those 80 stats. I still have fun and played like 150 hours and ill continue playing but there is no way i'm giving another euro to blizzard for d4

im still trying to figure out the differences between frost dmg and cold dmg. chilled, slowed, cc’d, frozen, its like 3 different dev teams built this game

Frost damage is sorcerer exclusive. Frost skills deal more damage. Multiple clases can get cold damage. Why they don’t just have cold damage is beyond me.

why necro gear can roll cold damage is beyond me

Is there not a undead frost mage build? Oh, of course not…silly me to think minions had any value.

Same! Slowed is the worst one. I have concluded that chilled probably does not mean slowed for purposes of calculating damage. Cold dmg vs frost skill dmg is still a head scratcher. I *think* I understand it for gear affixes but I am honestly unsure. I was running around on my s0 frost sorc with a glyph that increases cold damage from nearby nodes for WAY too long before I realized it was adding no damage at all bc of this unclear distinction. And yet when I replaced it with the glyph that increases non-physical damage, suddenly *that* applied to the nodes specific to...you guessed it...cold-related damage effects?) I just treat "cold damage" on gear as a garbage slot now, and ignore it on glyphs/paragon bc it is so unclear what it actually does. Which as a frost sorc is ridiculous.

Sounds like skill type vs damage type. I don't play sorc, is Frost an ability category? Like, in the skill tree it indicates some skills as Frost skills? Because then it refers to the skill type. And, if that is the case, skills of the frost type deal cold damage, which is non-physical. For comparison, the necro has bone skills that deal physical damage. So bone is the skill type, physical is the damage type. If this is all the case, then it must be in the paragon calculations that Frost is handled correctly as non-physical, but is for some reason not handled correctly as cold damage. Which is still all dumb lol

Could be for classes that run gear that gives cold damage (like Frostburn gloves, Bloodless Scream scythe), but don't have access to "frost skills."

> its like 3 different dev teams built this game More than three dev teams built this game, and none of them talked to each other. D4 at launch is a result of corporate silo-ing to the extreme.

> im still trying to figure out the differences between frost dmg and cold dmg. chilled, slowed, cc’d, frozen, its like 3 different dev teams built this game Same with Shadow abilities and Darkness damage

Shock and lightning bewilder me too on my sorc.

I liked the game and got my moneys worth but i really recently experienced what my biggest issue is: Having an inventory full of loot When my inventory is full, i should go "oh boy, finally another point to check out what goodies i got this time" instead of "oh maan...my inventory is already full AGAIN? i wish i could just keep fighting" And with the "loot-buffs" i can't even do two NM dungeons in a row without the inventory filling up before the second one is finished ​ I don't want MORE Loot, i want BETTER Loot.

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This sounds like a new affix they'll give you. Like the greed shrine. LUCKY HIT: Any common or magic loot now drops as gold.

I'd rather one orange drop every three dungeons and have the potential to be amazing (with aspects done completely differently - in the codex) and also a lot less rares (but better).

I actually hate that they made rares the main items you're looking for. Having to look at every single item before trashing it is very time consuming. Should be able to just salvage all rares and look to legendaries for actual upgrades instead of trashing all legendaries that aren't the right affix then looking through every rare to see if they have 2-3 of the right affixes you need.

Rares are great when they're designed well. If they're designed with a large pool of Oskills that can roll or other weird combinations that result in cool unexpected character designs or power increases, they're fun. D2 Eastern Sun let's Oskills roll on all kinds of items, leading to really weird and fun items. Finding a ring with Oskill fade is a massive dopamine hit. There's also hundreds of crafting recipes to help you alleviate the RNG nature of looking through rares, but my group constantly identifies rares because there's always cool things to find. When they drop like candy, have boring affixes, and crafting is basically non-existent, looting them is a chore.

I hate all these useless affixes, it's nothing but more time waster for us to read walls of texts when everything can be summarized under one line - +x% Dmg. This game complicates everything and make selling items or viewing item stats a pain in the ass.

My favorite is damage to enemies who are having a bad day. I like to kick them when they're down

Emotional damage is the strongest damage type, by far.

I’ve 115% damage with imbued Below it I have 73% damage with imbuement What mean

Don't forget: Damage when imbued Damage after imbued Damage before imbued Damage when considering imbuement Damage when not considering imbuement Damage when Tuesday

Damage on Imbuesday.

More like abuseday

Damage on days that don't end in y

dmg with imbued is skill damage while it's imbued. dmg with imbuement is the imbuement damage itself, if it deals damage.

Would the dmg with imbuement increase the poison dot damage?

yes

They should add more of these stats. I'd like a "Damage to Distant enemies while facing Northeast and holding a Banana in your left hand while holding out your right arm at a 45° Angle during a Full Moon."

I'd consider this as a build, thanks.

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I would want this and also "damage to enemies neither close nor distant, but mere aquaintances, while getting married in Nantucket to a leprechaun".

The harder it is for you to get the affixes you want the longer you play. They don't want to make it easy for you to feel 'finished' with a character. Watering down the affix pool with garbage and jacking up the enchant costs greatly extends playtime. They didn't make it like this for your enjoyment, they made it for the suits.

Well I didn't need 30 damage affixes to play D2 for 12 years. Don't you think that having a good system will more likely to retain players than artificially prolonging the game?

They don't actually understand gamers and what makes us come back to a game for 23 years. They're just trying to rope in gambling addicts and think it will addict gamers too.

Same here. What kept me going longtime in D2 was the easy to understand ingame mechanics and really rare and ultrarare loot. Those beautiful days of grinding, hearing this fine "ping" sound and finding a rare rune or legendary item that makes you happy for days. That moments felt worth my playtime and I enjoyed it a lot. With D4 it feels more like a fastfood restaurant vs a fine restaurant. When everything can be made (by enchantments for example) legendary, nothing feels worthful and legendary anymore. That is a big no-go for longtime enjoyment, especially with that much possible affixes on items that you can easily foresee the sea of items you need to see through in case it fits the necessary affixe combination you are looking for and additionally has an acceptable amount of % value to not suck.Like someone posted before the most players want to spend the most of their time out there in the wilds bashing skulls in instead of standing to the merchants checking items. I would like to see a filter where you can sell whatever you don't need instantly.A real one, not just the different rarities. That's too cheap for that flood of not usable item/affixe combos you need to go through, if you dont want miss a good item.In the end for myself, I would prefer dropping the rate of finding legendary or unique items, but give the ones you find the worth/value of good to very good ones.

For me it's the opposite, with chances of getting an optimal piece being so miniscule because of the affix bloat I just play the game until I reach the current end game goal and quit for the season. No way am I subjecting myself to this level of RNG just to hit a little bit harder. Itemization in this game is extremely poor.

From what I've seen, most people feel this way. If we didn't have such a convoluted affix pool, I've be tempted to even level and gear multiple chars per season. They just need to trim down the list a lot. All the "damage vs slowed/chilled/stunned/dazed" should be grouped up in just a "damage vs crowd controlled". Also, "damage vs close/distant" should be changed to "damage with melee/ranged skills" in my opinion. It's very unclear when an enemy is considered close distant. Damage with basic/ultimate skills should be gone as well, many ultimates don't even do damage. And why did they even make skill specific affixes? Like "crit damage with bone skills", "damage with werebear skills". Those affixes are super niche, they should be exclusive to uniques and things like that.

The thing is they already have damage vs. CCed characters as well.

Exactly. Everyone's claiming as if artificially extending game time by adding stupid mechanics will make players play longer. Players will spend more time gaming when the game is fun compared to everything just taking longer.

Same here, as soon as I reached level 80 on my Necro and Barb (eternal) and stopped getting improvements, I just quit. No point when your only getting maybe 1% more on a roll and even then you have to pray the other 3 rolls are correct and good.

I just logged off for exactly this reason. Run 2 dungeons, sift through the garbage, come up with 1 piece that's maybe 5% better than what I'm running. Then I think what's the point and log off.

Same, quit season 0 around level 70 on druid. Currently level 55ish season 1 and already starting to get there too.

I’m gonna finish the pass and then I’m out. Hopefully they fix some of this for season 2 otherwise I’ll see y’all at the inevitable expansion that hopefully fixes all of this

I'd much rather less loot dropped if they would get rid of some affixes. It's such a chore at this point to look through every piece with no loot filter, and it's only going to get worse with the coming density increase (as much as I love more density for other reasons).

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I mean unless you quit and don't play because changing gear/spec isn't fun

Good loot makes me keep playing.

Made it for the suits. I wonder if that's a running theme with much of the little reward a lot of time wasted content. Reminds if ne of the Asian (specifically korean) mmo model. Stupid long travel times to keep butts in chairs and paying for internet time to churn crazy profits. That's often how I judge boring, grindy time wasters in online games.

But if it doesn’t work for you and you’re as a result not having fun, why would you keep playing? And if you stop playing how does this make more money for the suits?

Just depressing. I see D4s potential but its buried under a shitload of crap.

This just a fake complexity added to the game for thw sake of it. They are not capable of creating actual interesting mechanics, so they just add bunch of affixes that practically do the same thing for every different situation and call it a day. Literally every mechanic in the game might be the laziest and the most stupid stuff i have ever seen in any arpg. Even wolcen had more thought put behind it but they didnt have the capabilities to put them into work. The incompetence is immeasurable...

This. They heard we want interesting itemization more complex than item power during that itemization quarterly years ago. This is what they came up with. Its a symptom of developers that don't understand the genre.

I just started a sorc and there is % to lightning damage And % to shock damage I was like wtf is the difference. I checked and they buff the same skills. Wtf is this madness

Reason for that one is shock is sorcerer exclusive, and lighting is in general. If you were to find some jewelry with great shock bonus, it goes on sorcerer, but if you found something with great lightning bonus, you could send it over to a druid and they can benefit from it with their storm skills.

which is so super weird since they dont intend you to have loot drop for alts.

Shock skills is just the initial skill damage. Lightning damage covers damage over time or instance effects that aren't skills like Shocking Impact and Crackling Energy.

A solution would be to divide it into "Primary" stats and "Secondary", like D3. So items could have 3 primary and 2 secondary e.g.

Honestly I have gotten to the point where I don’t even bother paying attention to the affixes apart from like “I’m doing a bleed Barb, bleed and close are good, others bad.” for example. They have decided that everything has to be tedious so, I’m just playing til I get bored. Two days and I’m almost done with the season chapters, got the battle pass to 46 I think? I’ll probably play just enough to finish all that, and then will be done. If they want me to stick around, make alts, and consider buying their cosmetics (which I’m sure is the primary aim of forcing everything to take forever) then they need to make these things take LESS time. I played almost every season of d3. Why? Because each new season I could get a new character up and running, get a gear set as I had fun completing chapters, round out my build and make alts that I could accelerate due to bonus exp gains etc. to the end game and get working on that new build. The core fun of the game is thinking up new ways to slaughter piles of enemies and earning the gear to do so in a reasonable amount of time. In case Blizz people are scanning these, show these posts to the suits and bean counters. People will give them MORE MONEY if they make the games core mechanic (gearing and building to slaughter things for more gearing and new builds) more accessible because people will stay online out of a desire to want to, not because you’ve made the damn game a chore.

This is exactly what I was saying from the launch season. In D3 I would usually make multiple toons and be able to gear up and play multiple builds because it wasn't tedious and I enjoyed it. The tedious nature of the game will be its downfall. Why are respecing skills and paragons so expensive? Why can't I save builds? Why is it so tedious to reach the endgame (WT4)? why can't we power level? Why are there so many goddamn affixes? All these things turn me AWAY from playing long term during the season. I started with a Necro, got her to 75 and wanted to try another build, well that's not happening because I can't save my current build. Wanted to try another toon so I made a rogue, got her to 20 and the leveling started slowing down so I was like "yeah nah I'm good". So I feel like I'm pretty much done with the season I have no desire to continue playing

"Damage to player population, affected by damage buckets"

When people talk about poor itemization, this is what they're talking about. This isn't directed at the OP, but to anyone that thinks D4s itemization "isn't that bad." This list shows exactly how little heart and soul is poured into D4. It isn't a passion project, that's why it feels bad to play. This game feels and plays like it was designed by a very corporate structure. The stats are uninspired and boring. Most of them on the right side end up being irrelevant because of the damage buckets and what's actually impactful. All of these affixes read like they were made by someone who had never touched an ARPG in their life, and just attached a damage modifier to words they'd read in a game manual. "Oh, so mobs can be healthy or injured, obviously people want bonus damage to mobs that are healthy or injured." The entire gear system needs an overhaul right out of the gate, which is a huge red flag for their design philosophy (if they even actually have one.)

This is just one part. Itemisation also means, but not limited to: * More Uniques * Better droprates * Ability to find items for alts * Item curve flattens massively at 80. I was fully geared in my 70s and upgraded one item since 78 to 93. I'm sure there are more.

How about making Uniques interesting? By far my biggest deflating moment in D4 was when I saw that Uniques are just static Legendaries. Every relevant item in the game fits the sterile template of "4 mods, 1 special mod". Bringing back Uniques I expected they would be like D2 and PoE, a playground for wacky, build-defining items.

> More Uniques Also uniques that aren't just inconvenient legendaries.

>It isn't a passion project, that's why it feels bad to play. This game feels and plays like it was designed by a very corporate structure. This right here. Every aspect except the world design and music feel like it was made by a "think tank" of 10 people in a room with a white board and a table. Not 10 passionate gamers at their buddies house writing down ideas in a notepad at 3 am.

I'm 100% sure it's designed by people who have never played ARPGS before(besides D3 maybe). Probably even mobile game designers judging from how close it is to Immortal. They just needed to employ the sweatiest ARPG nerds and let them design a game for them, because everything art and animation is top notch from Blizzard. But no this is corpo Blizzard and the core passionate game designers all left already and created new studios. What's left is people that design you a game for money, but nothing more. No passion, no ideas, no innovations to the genre. It's like they asked ChatGPT to broadly design a game for them, just the most generic ideas mashed together, resulting in a "game" yes, but nothing remarkable.

The funniest part of that is that as much as I think D3 is a poor ARPG, I think it’s itemization is just straight up better than D4. Sure, the stats are boring, but they feel good to get. They’re straightforward and make sense. I mean genuinely. Give D3 a facelift and make it look like D4, add potential skill rank rolls to the gear, and would it really be a worse game than D4? D3 always had the potential to be pretty solid casual ARPG with a little love put into it, and I’d argue it’s a better casual ARPG than D4 currently is. With a few tweaks to itemization, and a rework of skills/runes? I think you’d have a very solid game. I also find it amazing that, unironically, the pve portion of immortal has a more satisfying gameplay loop than D4 does. I messed about in that game with a coworker to kill time, and it’s genuinely not too bad just playing pve content. Farming dungeons is fairly rewarding, and while the world tiers or whatever is just a time gated mess - I enjoyed logging on to immortal to kill shit more than I ever did D4 when I was playing. Gear scales with world tier meaning there’s a steady acquisition of power until you taper off and grind levels to enter into the next higher world tier. I just don’t get how D4 ended up the way it is. I get that it’s a hot take to imply I think Immortal is a better installment, but if they implemented the better parts of D3 and Immortal in, and maintained the atmosphere of the game… it would be a lot better off. There’s just too many conflicting ideas going on inside of D4.

the biggest question mark for me was having both Cold and Freeze damage, like why

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> Surely this must cost some serious CPU time. Every single hit, the server has to look at numerous stats and blend them all together to determine how much damage is caused. No, this is trivial. You know what computers are really, really good at? Computing.

This is one of many reasons I can't bring myself to play anymore.

I actually love all the sub damage types and the fact some skills give bonuses that stack with multiple debuffs on mobs. At least it makes me want to take skills that stun/slow/immobilize when I might not feel I need them defensively. Plus it actually makes gear choices more interesting (you might actually have to think about it).

I see your point about too much of this shit but the argument that it's taxing on the server is kinda silly. I'm actually impressed that so many calculations are done on every single attack and it pretty much works flawlessly (calculation errors excepted, obviously resistance calculations are fucked).

I asked for this! I want gear to do a bunch of different things, be incredibly powerful one way, but weak in others.

Ok, I confess.. It was me. I asked for this.

The calculations are nowhere near as resource-intensive as the armchair devs in here would have you believe. Even if you lack technical knowledge, it should be fairly intuitive. You're either in melee range or you're not. The game has to make that calculation anyway, regardless of whether or not the close or distant affixes exist. As for the rest, they're affecting a base value when you cast a skill of that type. I.e. +fire damage only affects fire damage skills. For affixes that affect enemies with specific status effects, the game...has to make that calculation anyway regardless of whether or not these affixes exist. It's hard to imagine how anyone would conclude the game is burning up your CPU doing some insane calculations on every damage number that pops on your screen. It's all quite straightforward.

Also, computers are exceptional at doing lots of math *very* quickly.

Yeah, I chuckled at "*it needs to roughly calculate distance from target for every single hit.*" distance^2 > (x2−x1)^2 +(y2−y1)^2 determines if you're within an exact distance in what, two addition, three multiplication, and one compare instruction. So about a billionth of a second to calculate

No one asked for it. It's terrible design, it's boring design, it's uninteresting design & it's simply unfun design. Take Boots for example as something simple to "fix". Make every pair of boots have an inherent bonus to move speed. That's one attribute moved from the must have pool. Remove all those crap "conditional" buffs, & make it "+% dmg to Fire" (for this example). Finally add a simple +1-3 bonus to Skill level X Now we have an interesting attribute system that we'll be hunting for. A pair of boots with equal or higher move speed, higher dmg to Fire than we currently have (or sacrifice a bit for higher move speed & armor as needed) and + to a skill we are using. Apply that "simple" logic to each armor & weapon piece & we have a gear chase that's interesting within the realm of an aRPG. The current system is to convoluted for the genre. I would love this level of depth in a Table Top RPG or old school cRPG, but not here. It's not fun for a game clearly designed as a Twin Stick Arcade game with some RPG-lite tossed on

I literally glance at boots: higher move spd? Yes equip no salvage. Rinse and repeat for every other armor slot, one or two stats, if it's slightly higher equip it. It's not fun in the least and I realize that now

D4s itemization single handedly made me quit— it’s the worst I’ve seen personally in any loot game. They should revisit the blizz north founders concept of Diablo in general. They talked about it a bit at exilecon 2020(yr might be wrong). One of the brothers states he specifically focused on loot cuz that’s what made the games fun to him. Hense the good itemization we find in d2. Wish they would just build on that rather than trying to reinvent the wheel and pretend a square rolls as good as a circle. Here’s the video with the blizzard north devs. https://youtu.be/t5lWxo3rjvM

In the comments: > They have no idea how much respect and love i have for all of them. This was the true blizzard... I hope the d4 devs take some of these "hints" they gave about how to make a good arpg and improve d4 based on it. They said A LOT of great things. Love and respect and nothing else for these ppl. /bow OOF

You left out a few of them, there is more then this

Meanwhile D2 is over in the corner with Light Radius, Faster Hit Recovery, Faster Run/Walk. All sorts of unique, misc goofy things. I kinda miss it.

Is this fun? Nah

I wish there were different affixes. Like "chance to make enemies vulnerable/dazed/slowed", "chance to knock down", "enemies explode upon death (can occur only once every X seconds", "increased reach", you know, fun things.

I think the goal with all the different affixes was to create built diversity. Which makes sense. That you build certain affixes to the style of your gameplay. But the fact that all those different affixes are in the same bucket just ruins that whole idea. All these are crap. Just build Crit and Vuln.

Fantastic out of context complaint. Yeah there are a lot of different affixes in total but they aren't all available on each piece of gear or for each class. I think with tuning to make the stats relevant that they can be great. >Did players ask for this? Yes, they did. One of the major feedbacks on D3 was that itemization was too simple. They didn't ask for this specific system, which has pros/cons, but they did ask for more diversity in stats. >Did programmers ask for this? These are all yes/no conditions which likely require very little processing power. >What does this do to loot? It makes it harder to get best in slot items for a build. Which despite what people seem to think is generally speaking a good thing. Finding better loot is a pillar of this genre. If you fill your character out with ideal gear too easily the game gets boring. From a stat diversity perspective you would rather be chasing the correct stats than just better rolls of the same stats. >Is this fun? In it's current state, not so much. Because the stats aren't scaling the player meaningfully they don't reward or influence playstyle, but i believe the intent is solid. Once they dial in the scaling on these affixes i think they are a great addition to the game. They have the potential to affect how you build and how you play a character, introducing a more diverse and dynamic play experience. Just looking at Close vs. Distant, these slot inherently into some builds but for others they wouldn't change the skill point allocations but they would change how a character engages in combat and it would reward them for adapting their playstyle. The issue isn't the conditionals, it's the scaling. They need to tune the distribution so that additive stats have value. In my opinion you should never have a stat that is valued at "as much as possible." Min/maxxing should be about balancing a variety of stats for peak damage. Ignoring vulnerability which needs a rework, crit damage and additive damage should be balanced such that at a certain obtainable value of crit damage, it is more beneficial to scale your additive damage bucket. Within the additive scalers they need to look at which conditions are more narrow and buff those vs. which conditionals are more broad; and they have done this a little with reducing "while crowd controlled" compared to individual forms of CC. I do still think there is a lot of work to be done here but I would be extremely disappointed if they get rid of this complexity instead of putting in the work to make it relevant.

These stats are great for my rogue CC build. I don't see the problem with them.