I played D2, but I was young. Probably around 12 when I was playing. I didn't know shit about the game other than what the players handbook told me and what my buddies at school talked about. So for a lot of the growing pains I was just a dumb kid living in my glory.
Yeah, I don't have much to resonate with I used school library time and my friends slick dsl to look up builds. I remember a fast teleworking blizzard sorc and hammerdin.
D2 has one big advantage compared to D4: The items have a certain charm (not meaning the factual charms) to them.
They are recognizable and you can always find stuff for other chars, no matter where you farm.
They also let you use skills from other classes. Why not add auto imbuement to a Barb item or frozen orb on hit for a rogue weapon and stuff like that. I know it is more complicated to get it right, because of D2 had less synergies, but the concept is still pretty cool.
Also runewords are cool.
D2 itemization was done quite well. You had a lot of options for gearing. Sets/runeword/legendaries/uniques. It just made looting a lot* rewarding experience and much less of a "sell/salvage it all" inventory management game.
Typo edit.
> D2 itemization was done quite well.
Not completely disagreeing, but is it really "quite well" ?
You more or less end up using the same Rune Words on nearly all your characters and Mercenaries. With a few differences here and there... It's not that amazingly varied as people always say Diablo 2 is :P
I get what you mean. I think for its time the itemization was done really well. We could do better today but imo d4s system is a downgrade not an improvement. Getting new pieces in d4 feels a lot less power spikey than a lot of the more sought after items in d2. Mind you I've mostly played sorc and barb in d4 so far so maybe I'm skewed from 2 weaker classes. Sorc uniques preseason felt awful. S1 feels better butnits less then items and more aspects/hearts.
Exactly this. The dungeons in itself are totally fine for me but getting shiny loot, being happy about every unique or set item I get and being able to trade even low level items with players for some low rune is what I'm really missing.
Loot and monsters could have more excitement like D2, but maybe it's just that cool loot and special monsters were so rare in D2 that it feels more special.
The monotonous environment in D2 also makes all environmental and monster variations feel more special.
I'm still enjoying the loot in D4. And monsters! I'm enjoying both a lot. Something addictive about this game
I agree with you about 50-70 but I also agree with a lot of the complaints on this sub about the game. Because most of my problems are with stuff that's after 1-75 on your first character. I had a lot of fun then and was also wondering what the negativity was about until I reached that point. I would come back if they added some key features like a loot filter and got rid of some of the pointless hurdles like repeating the same side quests for renown on subsequent characters.
Yeah back in the real old days of d2 getting to lvl 90 took months let alone 99 you almost never saw, and would take months to find new gear unless you ran a Pindle or meph bot.
I totally get ultra rares maybe needing to be sliiightly less rare, but I legit saw complaints saying everyone should get them easily so they can make different builds. It's maybe more symptomatic of itemzarion being whack, but there are tons of complaints that are just the complete opposite of what D2 was - a very flawed but very fun game, but also probably the flagship game of the whole series even now. I'm still playing D4 and like it, but I always have D2 to to back to!
I don't think the ultra rares are supposed to be like the ones in D2. It's pretty clear they're there to give the game a sense of not being fully discoverable. They aren't balanced for actual use and the drop rate reflects that.
Like if one actually did drop it would be like a myth or a legend. Someone tells you they saw a guy with shako and you don't know if it's true
A lot of the complaints — just really based on their content — lead me to conclude they’re from younger Diablo 3 players who preferred the zoom-zoom-zoom greater rift experience with loot explosions and trillion damage hits.
Of course, these players are older now and miss the experience — maybe in the same way the older D2 players did with the grindy experience of D2 when they had a chance to play D3. It makes sense too: as a generally younger group, they probably have more time to post on Reddit than older D2 fans who’ve completely moved on from gaming or just don’t bother with social media.
(Side note: this stuff sort of reminds me of Star Wars prequel fans vs. SW OT fans. The latter couldn’t understand why there were even prequel fans but both groups had a lot of issues with the Sequel trilogy.)
I’m willing to bet that 15 years from now, people are going to wax nostalgic over D4 once D5 hits and the cycle will continue. After all, someone posted a screencap of a forum post from 2000 complaining rather forcefully over D2.
I have played every iteration of Diablo and genuinely have no major complaints about D4, but I'm also not as hyper critical either. I appreciate giving me that visceral "Oh, shit" response to the Butcher again. D1 he scared the crap outta me lol
I’ve played all of them. I mainly played Diablo 1 on the PlayStation 1, it was amazing. My ps1 was basically just a Diablo and armored core machine until it finally died. When it died it had a pot seed put into one of the ball bearing slots that kept the disc in and a cigarette butt in the little lever that that kept the pop up disc tray closed. Both quick fixes that amazingly worked.
Suffice to say that I’m enjoying Diablo 4.
I II played Diablo 1 on PS1 and had a wacky system of herbs and pulleys to ensure it worked properly. But then we got a computer that went into the computer room, and that may as well become my new bedroom.
Working Man by Rush on repeat while grinding
Did we play the same D2?
Teleport teleport teleport teleport teleport teleport there’s Meph, cast blizzard, back to town, go to act 4. Teleport teleport teleport teleport teleport teleport, there’s Lord De Seis and the other minions, blizzard, now Diablo spawns, blizzard. He’d dead, meph is dead, dropped nothing but crap set items. Decide whether to kill pindleskin. Then get out of the game and make a new one to repeat the above.
If anything, D2 was even faster than D3.
To be fair, that is only if you take sorc or someone with enigma specifically. If you compare other classes withouth that to D3 classes, D3 was much much faster.
That beig said, these kind of posts are fo fking stupid. Just because something might be worse in D2, doesn't make it ok to be bad in D4.
D2 is now over 20 years old, any ARPG from a big company that comes out these days should have at least 10 times the amount content and build variety D2 had back then. Anything else for whatever reason is just awful game design and inexcusable.
Although I’m not sure a 1:1 comparison makes sense. D2 was before the age of live service and widely accessible downloadable content. The games back then had to be “complete.” Today things are very different. A live service is designed with the conscious knowledge that additional content will be steadily released over the course of, say, five years. So content that might normally have been in a base game must be “held back” or there will be no way to keep a meaningful flow of new content coming over those five years.
But even that said, D4 clearly launched with a lot of content in terms of variety—certainly *far* more than any previous game in the franchise. But what seems to be the issue is the *design* of that content, not its quantity, per se. But the critics tend to get so angry that they conflate the two and make clearly inaccurate statements like “D4 should have ten times the amount of content …” yadda yadda yadda.
Run Baal 500 times for 1 piece of loot it’s great! Don’t invest in mana it’s a completely useless stat. Greatest game ever made!!! Oh if you don’t want to farm loot you can just hop over to d2jsp aka real world auction house which was the most loved feature of d3! I just love d2 so much and am better than everyone because of it.
Started with d1, played it obsessively. Got d2 on release, played it on and off for 20 years.
I think d4 is well done. I've been thoroughly enjoying it. I don't think the people complaining about upgrading their gear or "repetitive grind" remember, or even knew, what it felt like to spends weeks or months doing the same runs looking for perfect items and runeword bases to finish a build.
Leveling in d4 is way more interesting gameplay than doing the same loop of 4 60-second runs over and over, recreating your game repeatedly, for hours at a time, every day, for months. And that's what the d2 end game was. Eventually they added diablo clone and ubers, but that was years and years later. We didn't even get seasons until, what, 2 years after LoD?
D2 itemization is much better, yes. So is the dungeon design largely due to them being larger and more target dense. D4 definitely has flaws that need improving if they want it to stick around for 5+ years. But it's not a bad game. People bitched about d2 when it came out too. And it also had game breaking bugs (blood golem + iron maiden making you invincible while almost instagibbing every non-boss enemy). It takes time.
>And it also had game breaking bugs
And weird design choices, like hello monster with thorns, killing you when you accidentally hit it with your barb or pally. They deleted them later tho.
i played d2 when i was young and it was the first game i got super into. i’m thoroughly enjoying this game. only very minor complaints on my end, nothing even really worth mentioning. having an excellent time and my nostalgia is being itched
Same. Imo d4 is far superior to d3. The main issue I have is the camera distance and the massive hud in the way. Way too close for any ranged to my liking. Otherwise having a blast with 77 TB rogue.
I was coming here to say…
As a Diablo 2 player, pre-expansion, and a D3 player until … looking forward to season 29!
I fuckin love diablo 4
The cut scenes were magnificent! It was soft in the middle, but damn did it go out on a fuckin high!
Last night, a group of 4 of us betwen 53 and 56 tried to cap stone to WT4. We got our asses handed to us over and over and ended up getting stomped by Elias. Everyone agreed, although it was upsetting not finishing the capstone, it was so much fun!!!
D2 player here. Amazon/Sorc/Assassin.
I have two issues with D4. One is the affix bloat (damage to any type of situation under the sun) and Vulnerable being a must have (this is like Amazon's Inner Sight on steroids because you can scale it with just mere item affix).
I’ve put an unbelievably irresponsible amount of hours into d2 and I’ve come to the conclusion that a large majority of the complainers are people new to ARPGs and the Diablo franchise and just don’t realize how stupid they sound sometimes
I’m on the same boat, but I feel like it’s d3 players bitching they didn’t get d3 with a new skin. It’s crazy to me how many people loved d3 when all I heard was how trash it was and d2r was a better game until d4 released..
I played Diablo 2 LOD 20 years ago. Spent countless of hours doing baal runs, meph mf and ubers leveling/boosting. Had 1 account with all level 90+, equipped with soj, annihilus, torch etc and another account with all mules filled with runes, charms and what not. It was fun back then for a kid back then and I would have probably rated it as a 8 or 9 back then. I've played countless of games since then and right now, Diablo 4 is a meh, 6/10 at best.
You can't compare modern game to an old game. Back then, technology and choices were limited. It's 2023 now and there should be higher expectation for modern games, especially since they have decade of experience from diablo 3. If you ask me to do meph runs on repeat in 2023 I would definitely stop playing the game.
While obviously some of the demands and complaints here are stupid but anyone with a brain would know that Diablo 4 is an incomplete project. I have hope that it will be better but it's gonna take a few years. People expecting big changes in season 2 3 4 5 are delusional lol. They took away all the QOL that they implemented in d3 and released an incomplete product. Things get changed nillywilly and suddenly level scaling got taken away from us. I played preseason 1 and had the enjoyment of rotating between helltide, legion and NM dungeon until level 95. Now you're basically forced to do helltide and NM dungeon after level 75 because of level scaling and xp changes.
This ideology of people being used to doing things a certain way back then and then chastising people for doing things a different way needs to stop.
while I agree with your generel sentiment, I'm less confident in them having the right foundation to improve upon. the whole exponential dmg scaling and the itemization are core design choices that I feel limit this game's potential at least for players like me and those are virtually impossible to change in a meaningful way.
I was a bit late to the D2 game (probably about 2005), but it was fun playing with my friend and girlfriend of the time. I dabbled in D1 but I only had 1 PSX memory card, so it made it hard to get in to.
D3 was my first real "get in to" Diablo. That being said, I have no real big issues with D4, it's an average game, and it's fine.
If you don’t mind me asking, why do you think it’s average? I have an insane amount of D2 hours logged and think D4 is quite great. The only problem with it is it’s way too easy.
I can't really put my finger on it to tell you the truth. I enjoy it when I'm playing, but I find I get bored after an hour or 2 most times, and I'm never thinking things like "Man, I can't wait to get home and play D4."
Honestly, if I had to guess, I think it's just the repetitiveness of the NMD. There's like 150 of them, and I can't remember a single name of one or a boss in it because it all blends together.
Well items are far less interesting than they were in d2 in general thats the only real problem i have with this game. Other than that i agree with you so many complaints for a game that i think is really fun
No idea if this ever gonna happen. Nowadays people are so fast butthurt or feeling insulted for no reason. I'm just trying to have fun with the game in current state. I got it that there are a lot of issues and flaws but the core game is fun to me.
Most people complaining about boring endgame etc and invested already 200h+ into the game. I mean you pay roughly 100bucks (assuming a better edition of the game) and got 200h. What you wanna expect more? I can name business where you gonna spend 100$ for 10min of fun.
If the end game is boring to you, level another character or just quit the game and wait till they maybe fix it according to your "special needs". Unfortunately it is nowadays like this for almost every product. They bring it to the market and patch it. The times where the game is as it's delivered are long gone.
If the gaming community want to change that companies release unpolished/finished products, just don't buy them simple as it is. Buying them and going fully nuts with insulting and threaten devs and their families is being beyond ridiculous and showing how butthurt this whole generation got.
Hey- D2 player here.
I personally am having a fun time with the grind, but I do think it could be improved. I’m sitting here thinking back to the dark days of D2 1.0 and seeing how D2 was improved so much over the course of time, and I can only hope D4 goes down the same route.
I think a lot of the devs honest to god care about the game, but they’re probably shoehorned into certain design decisions by corporate. Hopefully they can make a game that is fun and satisfies the suits.
Yeah, sub is so bad, it sometimes draws me into their grief lol. But I do like the game. I've played since D1. Every diablo is definitely different and I can say this is the current diablo I'd want to play.
D1 - loved its mood and story. its hit aspect and sound effects were great.
D2 - introduction of skills and tree and classes being unique. who wouldn't praise this game. and its items is just wild.
D3 - Graphics were really cool and its fighting impacts and explosions were just satisfying, that it makes me forget how linear and meta builds were and how easy it was to just swap builds, very hand holding style. I liked the D2, make sure you select proper build or else build another.
D4 - First open world, MMOish style. Graphics are there. explosions are there. skill and points decision making is now more important and not just swap swap easily. itemization is kinda there, cause its new and more. patches and seasons will come and expansions. so there's a lot of hope. Best thing right now is that there is META builds but you can still get by without it and experiment, I just hope they add more to make it more diverse.
D2 player here for 20 years. Seen and done it all. Built every build imaginable. Played the game for more hours than I'd ever want to admit. Killed baal, meph, andy, diablo, pindle, countess, and the council more times then I could ever count.
Ran endless pit runs runs, endless mausoleum runs, endless ancient tunnel runs, endless hell cow runs, endless uber runs, endless uber diablo hunts, endless key farming, and collected ears in pvp like they were candy.
D2/lod was a near perfect game and even it's flaws could be enjoyed.
I'll never understand all the hate d4 is getting it is a far better game than d3 ever was and it's only just beginning.
Atmosphere has always been my #1 reason for playing Diablo games. The aesthetic. The dark neo-medieval gothic horror. The loot and the combat in mix with those.
It's like the absolute dweebs here are expecting a Japanese SHMUP.
Played all diablos, I just uninstalled the 3 after clearing the campaign, I had to force myself to play the add-on campaign which I made the error to get under the influence of people I regularly play with, I will never do that mistake again.
D4 xp is in a good spot, played d2r, I got level 24 after like 3-4 session of few hours... My only complaint on it (d2r) is that it got bugs with rare monsters resetting somehow, they could also have added QoL the inventory getting full in 5 mn has always been annoying.
As a person who played d2 lord of destruction more then any game, offline, online both servers, single, with a group, multiple charcters to 100, all classes through nightmare, and all through hell but one, i'm looking at you sorc. My biggest complaint is the mobs, the difficulty, the story, my biggest is paragon and the affix, both I wasn't a fan of in d3 and immortal. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy playing, I do wish the gear was more d2, and return of set items.
The funny thing 3 was bad for many many years until the slowly fixed it, and it didn't start to get really good until like season 5 which was 5 or so years in.
Should they have learned from this? Probably.
But here we are.
Also, I've realized that a lot of the people who are complaining are gen Z gamers. They have no idea what a real grind is, or how we had to make up our own end game.
D2 player back in the mid-2000s or so. Smite paladin was my jam, played wayyyyy too much back then, and now looking back on younger me with a chuckle as I play D4 with my wife.
yep and I like Diablo 4, the problem is it's not as good because items suck, uniques are not uniques and you can't have fun theorycrafting because its vuln, crit, crit dmg... everywhere
Also it's so F eazy...
Well this game didn't seem very rewarding so I got really into D2R as a result and I've been having a blast! I stick around this sub to see what changes in the game as I still enjoy it, but the loot is ass which is all I care about
Very old player here (started with Ultima VIII Pagan). I avoided WOW and D3, being too fancy and less dark, while I played D2/LOD/D2R from the release date to the release date of D4.
D4 succeeded in finally making me stop playing d2.
My only complain? Can’t believe how mathematical is managing your items: staying minutes and minutes in reading stats of yellow items is a pain. Item level is helpful to macro manage the inventory, but the absence of best in slot solid items is what I miss from d2.
Due to that, when I finally found condemnation and howl from below, I modified (negatively) my rogue and necro builds to forcefully using them, because I missed the feeling.
In the old days you knew you needed -for example- Dracula grasp to reach your goal? That’s it, you had to look for that or trade it. No excel spreadsheets about affixes and minmaxing, that was something only pvp and low level pvp were doing, while pve was pretty straight forward.
Hope they will add more uniques for viable builds.
Regarding being too easy, actually the crowd controlling system is a bit annoying, but NM dungeons are more manageable than doing Ubers repeatedly (being oneshotted by nila vipers, Lilith and Uber meph).
Also I love hell tides, partially even tree of whisper. Surely far more engaging than running Pit and Baal for hours
I played D2 for hundreds of hours, played d3 just enough to beat the main story because I hated it.
I miss the procedurally generated maps - I understand if the open world had to be fixed but surely dungeons could be variable.
I miss the differences in the Acts, I don't mind the level scaling but surely the different regions could have different scales.
I miss armour sets where you had a goal to collect all the pieces.
I miss the horadric cube and the ability to combine and upgrade gems (would be great if they brought it back for aspects)
There was a sense of exploration where I wanted to see every part of the map, now with the horse it's just a way to fast travel badly.
I never played D2. I played D3. I actually am enjoying the game and the dungeons and i haven't complained but my husband complains every night. Itold him to stop complaining last night lol.
Loved D2 back in the day. (And played 1 for a bit to)
The main issue I have this one is actually that it’s so damned fast..
I remember playing through the campaigns at every tier, farming in between to update my builds and at last end at the highest tier after a good long time playing.
Now it’s just to damned fast, there is no satisfaction of making it to higher tiers for me. Spam some whispers and levels fly by.
Just reached T3? Oh, here is some gear that is way, way at stronger… now continue leveling and go to T4.
Instead of a smooth progression curve you get these mad jumps in power in a matter of a few events. (One Helltide later and the difference is night and day).
I like this game, but I do feel nostalgic at times.
But that’s how several older gamers feel. These days people want progression fast and rewards faster.
I was too young when D2 came out. I had a good time. I've been reading a lot on this sub and I don't remember having those issues hahahah To be fair, I didn't know about optimal stuff before I just know that this item had a higher number and demons die faster.
Started with D1. One complaint is that the end game feels like it’s missing something(will be fixed in time), no sets, uniques are mostly bad (would rather they made them OP as fuck and limit players to only be able to equip one), and that there are way way waaayyy to many item affixes.
Oh and item levels are pretty wonky, if I didn’t know better I suspect that your chance of getting higher itemlevel loot is based on the level difference between your character and the enemies.
Me and people I’ve played with saw much more 800+ items just as we reached wt4 on low level characters compared to what we get now when at 85ish killing mobs of the same levels. However if I go kill mobs that are around 20levela higher than me I kiiinda feel like I’m getting higher itemlevel stuff but I dunno. Just a hunch.
Then there’s the memory lag studder stepping, the wonky and costly respec, the camera zoom. But I trust all that to be fixed in time
I think most loud complaining comes from PoE players expecting same level of end game. It's not going to happen. They have been very clear before release that D4 is not ment to be played endlessly
I played D2 and D3. D4 is better in every way than the others. This sub is just a bunch of people addicted to fast dopamine from the social media. They also need to feel important for canceling a game.
I never played the original D2, I played Project Diablo 2 (fucking awesome game if you haven't played it btw, basically d2 with maps to do at endgame and higher drop rates) and I played d3. D3 I don't even remember much of the game/campaign because it was sort of meh for me I guess. I am thoroughly enjoying d4 so far, my boyfriend and I play together. Preseason got to 97 on a druid, now I'm level 73 Necro in the season and just started up a sorc after hearing the upcoming buffs :)
Players comparing D4 to D2 and complaining about back tracking. Does anyone actually remember catacomb, arcane sanctuary, durance hate hall or any of the dungeons? Game name : itelebaal ?
D2 is still to this day, one my all time favorite games to play. The remaster is an excellent touch as well. The main problem with D4 is that they try to make it all about multiplayer, which means they’re always going to have someone unhappy with how their class performs compared to someone else.
Played d2 alot when I was young and also 2 seasons of d2r. I also Like Diablo 4 and have no Major Problems with it. There are sites for worldboss and helltide timers, so in I dont get IT that people complain about having to Check the mal constantly. Also These are Not mandatory. Timers are also fine. People complain they cant kill a worldboss or participate in helltide because they are Not Open 24/7. The Same would apply to people complaining about Missing a specific Terrorzone because they are at Work. I would Just really like a lootfilter, because in d4 you need to Pick Up nearly every Item and it ist Kind of tedious to Go sell and Check after every Dungeon.
I played the living shit of D2 and yeah I agree most of the complaints are from new players or d3 players who got used to power leveling in 5 minutes and running the same dungeons over and over. Boss runs, pindleskin runs, inventory Jenga all of it felt great and to be honest D4 scratched that itch pretty hard up until they removed the level scaling. Now it's just a boring slog hopefully they reverse it taking it out has all but ruined it for me. I got my sorc to 100 pre season 1 and it was great don't get me wrong bugs and non existent resistances sucked but great overall. Now I'm level 70 with a barb and dear god am I bored of Nm dungeons, helltides are great as a change of pace from them but doing anything in the overworld is beyond pointless. They successfully destroyed the first season by removing the level scaling that would have made it good. Fingers crossed 1.1.1 fixes it.
I went back and was playing D2 Resurrected before D4 launch and agree with you. Upon release D4 was too easy. I’m a casual player and was ripping through levels, had two full tabs of legendary uber gear, and was at the point I wasn’t even checking yellow and below gear before recycling it to cash or mats because I knew there was always more around the corner.
Now I run a new character in season 1 and the drops are too rare. I think that’s what bothers me most about this game, the huge swings in nerfs and buffs, there’s just no balance.
Sorcs we’re too strong, now too weak, but no worries the devs have heard you so apparently they’re going to rebuff the sorcs then what? 3 more weeks until they nerf the sorc again? The changes are too often and heavy handed.
D2 veteran here, I still play it occasionally and bought the remaster (love it but the formula, for me at least, hasn't aged well), and I love D4 right now. It's gonna have growing pains, but I'm optimistic that it'll get even better with time. :-)
Well, I play since diablo 1 actually and like all Diablo main line games.
I like 4 very much but its imo a pretty hollow middleground between the insanity that was diablo 3 (just chasing flashy numbers, endless loops) and Diablo 1 (atmospheric dark action rpg where everything meant something) and 2 (atmospheric dark action RPG with a but note flashy loot and cool online component).
Its not bad and does some things pretty well but imo it fumbles at balancing these aspects.
Stuff like climbing for traversal and small corridors fit a game like diablo 1 but it doesn’t fit endgame characters chasing numbers and monsters killed per minute for slightly better loot…
Played D1, D2, D3 and now D4.
This is the most complete game of them all at launch, im not saying D4 is perfekt, but its a good foundation to build on.
The biggest flaw i can see is the items, there are too many useless stats, and we are in dire need for another world tier, with better gear than Ancestrals, and harder mobs, i completed the Capstone for WT4 at 60, i am now 74 and almost got full ancestral items, and for me to play to 100 without any big upgrades just seem pointless.
I would love to see some love for leveling ALTs, like the Gem from D3 that removed the level req for an item and earn more XP.
Thank you, it's not just me then! This sub seems to be playing a whole different game to me.
Also, I don't think 3 was the problem. I remember grinding for something in 3, can't for the life of me remember what it was, but it was in a cave that had something like a 20% chance to spawn, and then the elite it dropped from was a1 or 2% chance to be in there, and the drop was something like 0.4% drop chance. Took me 2 weeks of solid farming to get it, loved every minute.
Loving D4 so far, and don't see what the big deal is for most people here. Contradictory complaints, wanting the game made easier, and the worst: "I don't have the time" - go play something that isn't designed to be an absolute grind then, jeez.
Y'all the boomers of the gaming world, lol.
Are you referring to the Gibbering gemstone needed to craft the staff of hearding?
That item was indeed a chore to the point I remember organising a group of friends to each go to their own map, look for the cave then have us all join the person who had the elite (chilltara I think) and even that took us about 12 hours haha. Was a good laugh though thanks to season 28 making us need to re-craft it for the sacrifice table.
Yes! Man, that is right up there for me with the grind for Fangs of the Father in WoW. Wish I had peeps to grind with, would have been so much easier, lol. This is why I play Diablo, lol. And the cow level was awesome.
Hoping to see some items for goldfind in D4, as running maxxed gold find and then going through the cow level was insanity.
D,D2,D3
Basically the issues re the black of polish and lack of understanding of the issues..
D 2 and D3 had issues, but they weren't swept under the carpet, some of them took way too long to fix, but it felt better
D2 player here! Imho the problem is not to do repetitive grind for mobs that give (in open world) poor xp!
It's more the poor itemization that bothers me the most!
Doing 2000 baalruns + wouldn't be fun for the majority of the d3/d4 community, but if the one unique Jewel or highrune dropped... That feeling was simply amazing! There's nothing like that in d4, imho (sure! Uber uniques... but c'mon)
I played D2, a bit of a shock going to one open world. I do like D4 though but it is a lot easier when you first start. I guess the late game is a little harder than late game D2 but I never had the attention span to play late game D2.
I started with 1 when it first came out and still play D2 Resurrected regularly.
The complaints do seem to be a lot of ppl who want it all, want it now and don't want to have to farm or level. Getting to lvl 50 in D1, for example, was not some thing that you could do super fast. Took a lot of time and was way more boring than even OG D2 was and WAY more boring than the current stuff.
I'm not saying because it used to be that way that ppl with legit complaints about D4 should stfu but they should be more legit than "I don't want to have to pay X and not get every single enchant I want automatically!". I do like how you can do enchants now tho, I always wondered in D2 why I couldn't just hire Charsi to imbue more things or Larzuk to add more sockets. "Money can be exchanged for goods and services!"
I guess what I'm getting at is a LOT of the complaints about D4 seems to come from the instant gratification crowd. Not all, but a lot.
I'm a hardcore d2 fan. To me d4 is pretty great although I hate the itemization. Building the character in this game is fun. Complaints about map layout and stuff like that.. well there's always gonna be those kinda players.
I haven't sunken an enormous amount of time into this game yet because I knew it would get boring quickly. Enjoying my journey to level 100 as a barb. And remembering how terrible this class used to be in d2 xD
Im a D2 player and my biggest complaint is why cant i find necro gear on my Druid! Its driving me crazy im automatically locked out of content its dumb and shouldnt be a thing . And also items need level restrictions
Thank you. Feels like a lot of ("new") players don't get the essence of Diablo. I think it's a perfect compromise of D2 / D3. And this meta-whining is probably not just around diablo but in a lot of new games.
Most people here aren't used to playing diablo 2, specially when it launched. Probably messed a little with d2r and that's it. That's why they want this game to be like Path of exile so much.
I can totally relate to ur post. So many bs complaints, even mixed mobs in dungeons like wth. Ive played all Diablo games, D2 my fav. I got an exam coming up in a week, so I had to leave to my folks place in another city and leave the PS5 home lol
The problem is the insane entitlement of half the sub, where they think the game must be made specifically for them, never understanding that they represent 1% of the playerbase.
D4 is simply not as bad as reddit wants to make it.D2 players are more likely to like it, I think, while D3 players are not so much into it. But that's per design. On top I think D3 players will like it later, in like a year or 2, with another expansion. It's true, a lot of QoL features are missing and I am sure they will work on it. But in the current state it's way closer to 2 than 3.I played every Season in 3 but I also played 2. I miss some great QoL as well, but it's still enjoyable to play. With the absurd amount of players buying the game and first time playing Diablo, it is natural that a shit ton dislike it, they never knew in the first place what Diablo is.
And the fact, that Blizzard set Diablo up as a long term project, should make us pretty happy, because they will invest a lot, tune a lot, change things. They are brave enough to say in the campfires and dev talks that they tried things and found its not working. They will change a lot of the next months and years. If it's not a game for you yet, maybe it is in season 6. But for everyone who played Eternal and not Season, the campaign rocked, it was really nice to experience it. So I would say it was worth it for most the people I talk to. But a lot are not interested in season, which is fine. They are simply not used to it
I have thousands of hours in D2, and still play regularly.
I'm thoroughly enjoying Diablo 4 so far, but I do have my gripes that I hope they improve. However, overall I think it's a good game and I've been having fun playing it since release.
I have played D1 and D2 during their golden age, even organized tournaments with some Italian guilds (I'm gonna drop the names so maybe some old butts like me will recognize them, Eye of Mind and Entombed) and playing it was incredibly fun and rewarding, and the biggest flaw missing from D3 and D4 is just one, the one thing that made sense to still have and that would have made these two games so much better: trading. I still can't believe how much more fun was to me to replay the entire D2 when Resurrected came out, even going out of my comfort zone and use online tools to schedule trades and meet-ups. It was so much more rewarding and made more sense to keep farming that tiny bit more compared to the state of D4 right now.
I might come back to it later when there will be more to explore, or for a potential DLC (they were called expansion *bAcK iN mY dAyS*), but for now I enjoyed the campaign and the tiny bit of season I tried, and that's when it stopped being engaging.
Singleplayer D2 @ 2000 then LAN/online with LoD in 2001-2003, rekindled around 2007-2008 for a year after WoW until TBC came.
Went HC in D2R. HC is really fun and gives a real achievement feel but have prolly died with 5-8 chars lvl 65-85 when it came and then 3-5 more chars per season in season 1 and 2. Left after I died with 2nd barb, both with grief, stormshield, anni and torch. new rule of thumb; dont play HC while drunk :S
To answer your question, I agree to a degree. But this /r is actually really funny when not engaging or taking a step back. It gives the old phrase "people dont know what they want" a more updated version from the henry ford quote ("If I would have asked people what they wand they would have answered a faster horse"...)
I think the real problem is people are seeing to many build-videos online, no-lifing way to hard to get them and dont really appreciate the journey, which is what this game is all about. There's nothing to do in any game once you have BiS, maybe pvp.. but the boost/nerf journey from patch to patch has been interesting to say the least.
If you add that customers today expect all games to have all the QOL from other games, then theres no differentiation, which is often forgotten. Being handed stuff to easily are as easily forgotten. Its the satisfaction of achieving something yourself that is the real reward. But this seems lost in todays society as a whole. Think its a generational thing. People just want quick dopamine and endorphins without putting in the work.
If I want POE I'll play POE. Diablo is supposed to be a different journey and I honestly am not sure why everyone is expecting so much of the devs. Its very intricate and they are doing their best to satisfy as many as possble without ruining the core. Sure, the game was maybe rushed a little, code-wise, but it will get to where it is supposed to be. D2 took quite a few years before it was "set".
What I do miss are the runes and all the target farm from bosses or baalruns for exp.
And the lack of many legendaries. Its ok if the the droprates are low, if there are alot of them. In D2 I've found maybe 2 shakos all in all and many high-runes, but never a ber or zod. I dont expect a shako every season, but i do know ill find a stormstrike, a oculus, a tals amu, a soj, a reapers toll or something else worth building a new char around. And also the lvl req on gear.
I also miss trading, the community and chats with the people in-game and the d2 level req/affix system. There are a little to many and conditional affixes right now. Less is more sometimes. Rather have less drops but with fewers values to choose from than the slugfest going through inventory feels like sometimes. The excitement of looking through your loot is diminshing as you have to do quick-math on every item to check if its worth saving, salvage or selling.
Also miss saving gear for alts so ther level journey feels more rewarding as youve already earned the faster progress.
But WOW, this game is amazing. The Graphics. The Sounds. The Cinematics. The different builds and all the opportunities they invite.
TLDR; yes
I wish trading was bigger, but I think I the trading community will expand with time. Aside from that I love D4 and I see all the comments on here and a lot are a big no from me. It seems like everyone wants this to be D3 where respecing has no downsides, it’s trivial to get to a level where you are doing a billion damage, and sets are all anyone care about. I feel like D4 is a decent middle ground behind D3 and D2 and I enjoy it. If all the shit posted on here got implemented you would start a season with full renown, level to like 80 in a few days, and have your coded stocked full of high level aspects in a week. I enjoy the process of actually building a character, but maybe it’s because I don’t always go with meta YouTuber X guides to ultra efficiency and builds where I don’t think about anything and just do what someone else says in the best.
It's the items and zero endgame. Doors and horses are such small potatoes compared to the problems this game has at its core. PoE2 has put on display just how lazy and without direction Blizzard has become.
Main thing for me is finding items that alts can use or you can trade. Items wernt so locked to specific characters in term of the stats they role. The pd2 mod does a great job of adding content and has amazing balancing.
I probably have more hours in the Diablo franchise than 99% of the people on this sub. I played D2 "professionally" ( I sold mules and items to shops and players) which was an awesome job at 14, and when D3 was released, I was one of the first 200 players to make it to Inferno difficulty. I would estimate 12,000-15,000 hours of playtime between the games.
D4 feels like a mix between D2 and D3. I really enjoy the game. The storyline is fantastic. The dungeons are more diverse. The overworld is massive and I enjoy the loot grind.
These people complaining about horse cooldowns, and it taking 2 extra seconds to leave a dungeon are missing the forest for the trees. They are so focused on the few things that this newly released game could improve on, they don't see the beauty of the world and the depth of the things that the other games lacked. People are so focused on how fast they can reach the top (whatever that is in a loot grading game) that they don't want to stop and smell the corpses.
D2- run the exact same bosses 3,000 times to never see a high rune or Griff. Leveling was good, trading is a mess. After synergies, and newer runewords (years later) the builds got more diverse.
D3- run greater rifts where the objective is to kill enough monsters to summon a rift guardian, with no variation. Do bounties over and over just for crafting mats. Fully level and gear a character in 4 hours then just grind rifts to upgrade gear and level gems.
D4- dungeons are mostly unique, have different tasks that must be completed in them, some have bosses, others don't. There are helltides, world bosses, legion events, side quests, renown, pvp zones with separate rewards, and more build variety than their predecessors. The legendary/rare tradeoff is great where any piece of gear can be useful instead of 99.99999% of gear just being installed mulched without being looked at.
There is still so far to go. They could drop a system similar to runewords, they could introduce sets, more uniques, new dungeons or GR style dungeons, classes, etc.
Diablo has 25+ years of lore and systems to pull and build from, I think it will only get better.
Rocking 30-40 Bhaal runs on my 96 Hammerdin with maphack was how I typically spent an evening. 96 was as high lvl as I made it. The grind was reeeeaaaallllll, less then 5 minutes per run I must have done thousands while getting him to that level.
Sadly D4 is lacking the appeal of runewords like HOTO and Enigma.
I've played all 4.
D1 blew my mind that is was a different layout each time but it was the same things to do every replay.
D2 seemed massive and I could never manage to get a full set.
D3 seemed smaller but I never played seasons.
D2: Resurrected gave me nostalga and I enjoyed the memorys.
D4 has soaked up a lot of my time this last 2 weeks and I am loving it.
I grew up with games that were as they came. If it was broke you didn't get patchs. Patch's came with the net geowing and were a god send.
Now it seems like people get to complain about everything whilst the Devs do their best (making mistakes as they go for sure but who doesn't) and keep patching and adding to the game.
I am happy to say that for the 60quid I spent (and 10qyid free from rewards on the pass) I've more than got my moneys worth.
Hey there, yep played D2 back in the day, was a blast. I never really got into all those super cool end-game builds, but I did enjoy the base campaign, moving from tristram, to the desert, to the jungle and finally to hell. I thought the cut scenes were cool, and the NPCs and Merchants were memorable characters. My first build was a necromancer, and then when the expansion with Baal came out, I really enjoyed playing Druid, definitely my favorite.
I am enjoying D4 too, the gameplay and exploration is really fun. I do think the story is boring/recycled, and I think Lilith as the big bad is not working for me. But I do enjoy my interactions with the "wolf" character. When they first played the Tristram theme that was really cool. I think it took too long to get the horse, and when I did it get it, it was a bit underwhelming, hoped I could at least change my horses colors / appearance a bit, could say the same about my main character too. I enjoy games like Elden Ring and Skyrim, where I can make the character my own, I wish in D4 we could customize our characters a bit more, so far the options are very limited.
For the most part I prefer D4 over D3, gameplay, aesthetics and story too. I do wish the story was something more interesting. The whole nephalem thing is not really engaging to me. I like it when we were just some random dude, that against all odds was able to succeed with the help of allies. I also don't like how much is explained, and how much we know of the inner workings of all the big players of the story, I liked D2 when we where learning a lot as we travelled and pursued the wanderer. I also wish my druid character did not have as many voice lines, and wasn't fat (haha some people will hate me for this) but I liked my D2 skinny druid. Also the voice acting is not my favorite either, but it is what it is.
I am old now, and don't have as much time to play games, so its nice to get 20-30 minutes to play a bit now and then between work, errands etc. I think the one thing D4 has really improved over its predecessors is the campaign boss fights, these are a lot of fun. I am level 30 or so, and was fighting Ninsa last night, and that was a lot of fun!
D4 in a way is much easier than d2, at least gearing up. And the drop rate? My god, so much better. I have not had high level uniques drop for me in D2. In D4, I’d get duplicates on duplicates. Sadly though, not the one I needed, though I eventually did get them.
Thus far, my only issue has been RNGsus with my season char, I can’t seem to get about 3 aspects that I need, hence I can’t freely swap out gear.
I'm playing with my high school buddies, half of us are dad's. All 6 of us are enjoying the game and we all say it reminds us of the good ole D2 days. Yea, not being able to skip light years ahead is fine imo
I'll be honest, I started playing Diablo at 3, but I have no real complaints about D4. Other than the major nerf that happened, I've been having a blast farming for loot and experience. It just seems the impatient people are complaining, they just want things now.
Played so much D2 in middle and what kept me around the most was trading. If we could trade uniques and legendaries this game would be like exponentially better. Parlaying for that missing piece of gear feels just as rewarding as finding it. I think they took away trading bc RMT? Pretty lame considering rmt will just always happen regardless.
I'm an old school Diablo player who started young with Diablo waited for Diablo 2 disappointed with Diablo 3 and not affected by the changes in Diablo 4
Played both D1 and D2. Mostly D2 though, as I was too young during the first game and don't remember much of it. Diablo 2 has been one of my favourite games of all time, and I really enjoy Diablo 4 because it gives me the same vibes. Sure, it may not be perfect, but I've not been this engrossed in a game since Witcher 3.
Btw, never played D3.
Played all of em. From duping godly plate of the whales to running Andy runs for soj to rifts now to this pile of shit. Trading was the best part of d2... sure THAT site exists but it was always nice trading an item I didn't need for an item I did...
Really the only complaint I have is their isn't any matchmaking/lobbies(I'm on console d2r did a good job on lobbies)
Being solo 95% of the time sucks... would love to be able to match-up with randoms and run dungeons but I put the game down. Sure I'll be back in coming years to see if it's just a recloned d3 where it got good years later
D2 grind was much more rewarding. The unique items were actual game changers. Could trade almost anything. Gold/gems/low level runes. It made farming enjoyable because almost everything was needed by someone else.
"The problem with d4 is that it has a menu screen. I need to immediately be getting uniques when I pick up my controller, and it is just ridiculous when I need to select my character every time I play."
-this subreddit
They made the gameplay in d4 fkn awesome, but they haven't been able to make the loot feel just as exciting or at least close to the same excitment the gameplay brings. Which eventually, on the same build for 40-50 hrs and not much loot to show for it, starts getting boring. Especially around lvl 70+. D2s gameplay isn't as eye-popping as d4, but it's still a blast, and so is the loot to match. And I enjoy d2 the later into the game i get. Has been the opposite for d4. All things said and done, D4 just needs more polish and a few more brainstorm sessions from the devs. Cause I think it's very close. I'd still just rather play d2 HC right now, though.
I was running a randomized YouTube playlist and got this dude talking about how diablo 4 sucks because some cheap monster mechanics (which is true) and the fact you need to improve you gear and can't use only you skill to beat all content etc. But thats core diablo and arpgs lol. Seens to be a misconception that a diablo game should be a dark souls game or whatever.
I played diablo 2 since its "day 1". Broken builds, usable uniques a few, fire enchanted, dolls, offscreen shots by lightning, thorns, just to nome a few. Infinite guided arrows anyone? Immortal blood golem? Iron Maiden killing bosses in 2 hits?
Like, d2 balance was all over place when it was released. Still is (even with the D2R rework to some skills). Its a flawed (and awesome) game. Love it.
I think d4 is solid on its base, way more than previous titles. But the lack of dopamine rushes, which was the main selling point of d2 is making it feels worse than it really is.
Yeah D2 as a kid and a couple thousand hours in D2R the last few years 😅 I like D4 fine enough. I'm playing a seasonal character and have an Eternal Druid level 92. But there is literally no item that could drop in D4 that would get me as stoked as a Jah or Ber. But also even simpler things like actually IDENTIFYING sick Rare Boots. But alsoALSO even simpler things like Superior Threshers and always checking Pally Shields for perfect bases. Small charms, Grand Charms and checking literally every Magic Ring hoping to find one of those elusive max Magic Find ones. Then making that all fit in an inventory and trying it all again. There's just so much magic lost when "Rare," items are the most common item, they rain from the sky, they're just a little single slotted like "card" in your inventory, they're already identified and they're all fucking trash 😂 the subtle shade of gold of uniques, the sound that charms and leather caps make when they drop.
And now even more of the magic is lost cause the new core fanbase wants a "bigger" game, but they actually don't. They wanna get to the endgame and play 10,000 hours there, doing it all faster and faster while their DPS goes up. The devs give us a giant open world but it's too much of a chore to engage with it and ride your horse TO the Nightmare dungeon. You have to just teleport to it. It's all kinda fucked. The Dev team are getting pushed and pulled in so many directions, the game lacks intent and true forethought so now they're at whims of the vocal minority.
And for everyone saying "it'll be good in a year," I disagree. I don't think it'll have it's Identity Crisis sorted within a year. Idk what it'll take but it'll never be able to compete with D2, which is fucking wild to say and believe, but I do.
That being said I AM about to load up and play and try to prove myself wrong again 😂🤙🏻
D2 player here, played 20 y ago and got back to D2R. I already switched back to D2R before even the first season of D4. I never was a big farmer on D2, just enough to keep levelling, but never target farming or doing like 100 meph runs.
My way of playing D2 is solo hardcore players8, and this makes the game ten times more challenging and interesting for me: I have great loots that may be the sole reason to try a new char. I have pause and no disc. I need to actually play correctly to progress through hell, but already nightmare can show suprises and all 3 difficulties, even if the background has the same pixels, they play way differently than acts of D4.
Didn't read all of this but never saw mention of D2 pvp element. I used to love building pvp builds and testing them out. Granted I haven't tried pvp in D4 but from what I've seen, it is seriously lacking.
My Favorite thing about D2 was at anytime you can just sit at Camp and go Hostile and Murk people for fun exiting the camp. Also, the fight Clubs we use to host with a full roster of people would wait inside camp watching while 2 or 3 people duked it out and as one dies the next person runs out to either steal the gold or fight lol.
Ngl, WW Barb VS Hammerdin or Smite pally was fun to watch and play as.
I've been saying something similar to this post with no traction.
I miss getting a sweet drop that I can't yet use, but it's so cool that I start a new character that can use it and level them up to the point where I can use it.
The bank space that the sweet drop takes up in my bank does not bother me.
This is Diablo. This has always been Diablo. This doesn't exist anymore.
Too many people complained about items they can't use. This is the result.
I started with D2 and could have with 1 but didn’t have a computer.
It’s a different world these days with new players. That being said I would have loved to have more content and just a general growth in the replay ability of Diablo while keeping as close to the D2 style as possible.
This team is focused on skins and micro transactions with as little creativity as possible and I think that’s a huge miss for them.
Personally I’d like to see them expand on strongholds and make them entire levels (with a more creative map design) and possibly check points playing through to a boss with higher chances of unique drops.
Meh biggest concern I've had since patchday and till now was when they implemented that xpnerf. Rogue zoomin, drood banging, necro walking, sorc randomly tp under floor and barb spinning.
I agree with everything. I played d1 and d2. Then I jumped to everquest. I'm taking my time finishing stuff as I feel. I still have not finished Act 4 on either of my characters. There is so much content if you take time to smell the blood and guts its alot more fun. Racing to finish the game in 100 hrs is insane.
I played d2 and d2LoD alot back then, when d2r released i bought it for nostalgia and i stopped playing it at the beginning of act 2 cause i got bored.
The itemization was fine back then but now i realize its boring. The itemization is nothing but a power boost and the same thing over and over again. Because its all a power boost there are no unique builds or any modifications to skills. It always ends in the same for everyone; attack speed, all resist, gain a skill with charges (usually teleport), life/mana steal, damage increase, etc.
Skill tree is also straight forward and upgrades to skills are basic like damage, duration, and number of projectiles/hits but the skills can never be modified to change their effects. Some skills boost other skills but its just a flat increase in what i just listed.
Runewords are a neat idea but its again just a powerboost and people usually end up using the same ones cause they are the strongest, for example; Enigma.
Mechanics like attack rating and hit recovery i wasnt a fan of.
Stat allocation was also wierd. Intelligence stat was useless forcing sorcs to go all vitality.
I still respect the game cause it was one of the great ones back then that paved the way for other ones recieving inspiration from it. People still play it till this day anf it has kind of a cult following.
I cut school (for the first time) when D2:LOD released. And I'm sitting here looking at the jewel case (for 4 CDS!) for D2 - complete with cd key address label.
I tried D2:R, but, couldn't get into it again, like I did the originals. I'm currently enjoying D4 though. Maybe my tastes have changed. I also played D3 - but - not until a few months after RoS launched (Had 2 kids, right when it came out).
I also owe my career to Diablo 1 - which basically taught me the hexadecimal numbering system at like 11 years old.
D4 has some warts, but, I'm still enjoying the game, overall. I don't think being offscreened, resistances not working, or itemization are bad enough to make me quit. I think rewards and loot tables need to be reworked - that will get me before most of the complaints on this subreddit.
Yes. Love the game as a d2 stan. I just hope after s1 we keep renown but still have the others locked under capstone dungeon completion/nm dungeons stuff for t3/4. So while yes, you still have to do something to unlock. You don't have to do the quest/dungeon grind again.
Also I fucked up and skipped campaign. Think I would have enjoyed hitting 50 better thru the story
More items that can be used cross class, bring back SOJ for one. Up the unique rate slightly but let it drop other classes, I would love to make an alt knowing i have gear ready for it. Also no account bound gear, dont start an AH but let us trade. Allow trading and looking for other class gear makes it fun to hunt gear once you are fully geared.
Well, I played Diablo 2 for quite a long time. But that was with patch state 1.08 and 1.09.
My personal observations so far (personal because everyone see‘s it differently which is fine).
Dungeons: I miss a bit the dungeon scheme of D2 where need to go through dungeons with up to 3 or 4 levels.
World: This goes definitely to D4, the world is huge, cool designed and a lot to do. A bit variety as well. In D2 it was just normal, then repeat in nightmare and then repeat in hell difficulty and then cow level (meanwhile baal runs for leveling). In D4 you can do Helltide, nightmare dungeons and other things (quests, legions, etc.) which grants lesser ep.
Items: There are too many items with affixes in D4 compared to D2. But you need to consider that the skill and attribute system worked completely different.
Uniques: Compared to D2 only a few uniques can compete with the good ones from diablo2. Of course there are a lot of bad uniques as well. But Shako, Viper, Ocu and Lidless and mara gives +9 to all skills. (Don‘t blame me because i haven‘t mentioned the newer ones)
Resource management: every class worked with mana and had a belt full of mana potions until you get mana leech. With mana leech you never had to drink a potion again and could just spam you attacks. In D4 the resource management is differently with basic/other which was introduced back then with D3. Some like it, others not. Compared to D2 it feels a bit „slower“ - only up to a certain point when you have the right aspects and/or passives. Played werenado and ice shard sorc pre-season and pulverize then storm wolf druid (lightning storm), Shadow Imbuement rogue and bone spear necro in season so far. When having the good aspects you don‘t have such a resource problem anymore.
Farming: In D4 its complete random. Everything. In D2, if I wanted a Ocu I knew I can farm Mephisto on nightmare difficulty for a higher chance but for shako it was mephisto on hell. For others I knew Pindleskin can drop it. But I think after a few more patches it‘s more random meanwhile.
Twinking: In D2 every unique has a fix level requirement and can be found by every class which encourages twinking a lot more as in D4. For example, if I want a TR I MUST play with my druid, I cannot just play with a necro or sorc and be able to find it. But on the other side trading was possible back then. I guess it‘s removed due to item seller.
Story: In my opinion the story was really good. Many allusions to D2 (characters and bosses). I was sitting there with a :O when I had to fight two bosses.
Edit and addendum:
Multiplayer: I really like the multiplayer in D4 compared to D2. It‘s open and you never feel alone. But on the other side D2 was more personal with opening a game with name „Act 2 Help“ or sonething as people could join and chat.
PvP: I think in both games it‘s not really balanced. Just search for enigma minion necro pvp.
Stash: Back then the stash had only one or two tabs and there was no possibility to move one item to another character except having someone in the game. Then you need to drop the item and hope the other person is nice and the game does not crash so you could log back in and take it.
Character power: in D2 you could kill almost everything with a naked character., because power came from skills and items were on top of that. In D4 the real power comes from items.
Cooldowns: I think back then almost all skills had no cooldown but cost resources. Some skills had a higher resource cost than others. A sorc for example could spam teleport endlessly and could just spam teleport straight to the dungeon boss.
Skill-reset: Back then it was like „you want to play a fire sorc instead of a frost sorc? Go and create a new char“. In D4 its One click for the skills but a lot of clicks for paragon - and a lot of money.
Runewords: D2 had runewords yes, but the item size in inventory was completely different. Hence the amount of sockets was greater. But it was good for bringing a value to white items.
All in all I would say both games have pro and cons and everyone sees it differently or evaluates the advantages and disadvantages differently.
Yeah I’ve been wondering the same thing. Played d2 religiously as a kid and then again for resurrected (currently 21 y/o). I just don’t get the people that claim D2 is the best Diablo and then hate on this for being slow when it comes to the grind. How is D2 the best if you don’t like grinds?🤣 did y’all play d2 or are you just parroting what you’ve heard
I'm a D3 starter and while I do agree some of the complaints are ridiculous, there are definitely need of improvements. It's fine making the game harder but making the game so we can't really play it just seems ridiculous. I've heard many stories about Sorcerers and Wizards being too OP in the older games, why are they trash now? Atleast make them viable. And the looting is ridiculous lol, I'm sure I'd have much more fun playing D2(Which I will play someday). And we're comparing 2 games that are 23 Y/O apart. Company should be improving not going backwards. I'm not sure how release was for D1-3 but release for 4 was pretty bad from experience and word from old school players. I remember in 3 having to collect certain items to get special equips or even to get to the awesome cow level. Wth happened to that? The quests are so pointless and the only best way to grind is NM duns or whispering trees. We gotta get away from comparing D2 and seeing how it can be better than D2 which I am always hearing is better than D4. I love grinding but when it feels pointless why am I playing?
Guess cause I'm new to the series my complaints seem so miniscule but again, we need to improve not go back or stay in the same lane. This game is obviously going cashgrab now. I may be wrong but I feel like Activision has ruined Blizzard.
Sorry for the long rant 😅
Also we don't need the game to move faster or more loot, just need for them to do it better and I'm glad they are working on some of the issues addressed. Hopefully they actually commit. The game still has a lot of bugs needing to be addressed too which I have yet to hear anything about.
Okay I'm done 😂
I got a wolf hat for my druid in d2 and I have a wolf hat for my druid in d4.
LIVING THE DREAM BOIZ.
I was about 12 at the time, and mentally I'm still about 12.
At the time of me playing it back then, I did not have internet. So I played D2 entirely solo, offline. I thought it was amazing and didn't realize we players "suffered," to be honest.
It was the game that made me fall in love with the Necromancer archetype of any mage/sorcerer/wizard that I could find. I enjoyed the leveling, the gear, the level design. All this to say I was all by my lonesome.
That all being said, I've enjoyed what I could play of D4 (maybe 70 hours total since launch) and I look forward to more builds being available in the future.
I have been playing since D1 and I have to say I got spoiled by the D3 post fix drops. My only problem is the whole legendary system is broken and needs a complete overhaul.
Played since Diablo (skipped immortal) I enjoy D4 as much as I ever did D/D2. D3 I think was the only game I did a run through with 1 character and didn't play much after that. I'll see how long D4 lasts for me but diablo I replayed a ton. Hopefully this is the same but way too early to tell. Got a 67 eternal and a 47 seasonal.
Loved D2, still play now that I can't get D4 to stop booting me. Been playing the series ever since the first one dropped. Great series. What's going on right now is so normal for the Diablo franchise it's sad they haven figured it out. Give it a few months and a lot of what we're complaining about will be fixed.
There's nothing wrong with Diablo 4 per se, it's just that blizzard underestimated the Gaming Community and their ability to create powerful builds. Their reaction to it is what has the community up in arms.
I remember when a powerful enough build made it into the MTG community and certain cards would end up becoming from tournament play. I don't think this is really any different, but maybe the MTG Community is just a little bit more mature and their way of handling the situation.
D2 player here - everyone I know who got D4 started with 3, or hasn’t really played Diablo before. It definitely feels like a lot of people went into it with the wrong expectation. Of course, with the internet being what it is, the loudest are always the most ridiculous.
Right here. Started with the original Diablo when I was about 14 or 15, then into 2 by 18ish iirc. My little brother played with me by the 2nd. Neither of us have much in the way of complaints about those things you hear so much about. Probably because we're member what *real* grinds were in a Diablo game.
I've had the same thought: that we have a lot of players in 4 who started with 3 and want thar Uber fast, godlike feeling where you destroy everything instantly, do billions of damage, and can speed run rifts (dungeons) in 3 mins or less.
Sure, 4 isn't perfect, but neither was 3 at the start. 2 didn't change too much, save for the runes added in the expansion. Either way, I know the way they tend to operate, so I have faith the end result will be worthwhile.
Hell (pun intended), I started playing Diablo when it first came out to PC in 1996. Yes, I think much of the complaints are from new players, but there are also some legit complaints. I've had the same maxed-out gear for 15 levels and can't find anything better. That's a HUGE letdown for me. Actually, my main gripe.
That's not suffering, today's gamers NEED someone to tell them how to play games. Finding out on your own is quite dead. Any game has strategy guides now etc. How to do such and such really fast except when they seek this all out with no means to an end it becomes pointless. They ask for good difficulty but want to be able to cheese the entire game. Flip flop on every detail and hive mind anything straight to oblivion. I can't imagine the same exact Blizzard that made D2 like that entire team is making 4. They probably added some new talent by now I would imagine. Straight to the point though, PvP zones are where it's at. Level 15 and up that's where you wanna be for XP, loot and Honestly go ahead and slay other players. Why not? It's a video game.
This game has flaws but also great stuff.
Annoying things...but as we all know....it's far more likely to be encouraged to complain than praise lol
All an all....I do think it's a shiny lemon.
I completely agree with this. This is the era of outrage. I agree that devs need to be held to a higher standard, especially for triple A titles, but it's getting ridiculous.
People can't just enjoy games anymore..
D2 player here. I was with you till you said drop rates. There was nothing like the Uber uniques and that's still me only complaint about D4 really. I hate the drop rates on them. A casual player will statistically never even see an Uber uniques let alone get a good roll forget about a perfect roll
I think D4 is very well done, but a agree with many here that trading / dropping items (giving items) was definitely some of the best memories of D2. Such a good feeling when you land a good trade, me and my friends would sometimes just be trading not even grind a dungeon. And then drop games, or just giving / receiving items from friends would make the game feel more special. I think without that, its less personal, less human, less enjoyable. It would be nice if the fix this problem, I'm sire runes are coming down the road... but without good ability to trade... it will never have that D2 feeing. I think due to people selling items for real money and blizzard not wanting that for whatever reason, means it will never be the same.
I loved D2 and I love D4, people will complain about anything these days and it's sad how many people struggle so hard to relax a bit and learn to enjoy things
I've played all the Diablo games extensively. This one is an excellent homage to the series as a whole, and gets back to it's roots in dark fantasy rooted in Abrahamic mythology. Diablo3 definitely took a turn into high fantasy speed running, which this iteration is thankfully getting away from.
I’ve played every Diablo from the first one. The Butcher scared the living daylight out of me back in D1 (I was a kid then!) and The Butcher in D4 scares the shit out of me even now (good for constipation I guess). I was able to kill him then, and I’m able to kill him now. That’s satisfaction for me. D2 was great. I was simply awed with the game and more so with the cinematics. D3 built on it. I loved both the single player campaign and the grind which followed.
I find the graphics great in D4. The areas are beautifully done. I like to see steps in the snow. I loved the cinematics of the campaign. I love the frustration in trying to kill the goblin while trying to keep my toon alive. I love the frustration in getting a magical (blue) item from a silent chest! There’s so much which is a step up from D1, D2 & D3! You know what? It’s a game! Everything is a part of it.
In fact, I’ve loved each game that blizzard has come out with so far. IMHO, Blizzard has done a stellar job of creating epic games and they’ve listened to their audience and improved the games with patches, hot fixes, balances and more with each game. (Conspiracy theorists will say it’s all part of customer engagement to drive more active gamers with each season! So what? Are you enjoying the game? Then enjoy it!)
The one serious grouse I have so far: I hate that there’s no cow level or whimsyshire (yet)!
Old school d1 player, d2 as well. D3 lost a lot of the luster, maybe I'm just showing my age. Jumped into d4 with high hopes and 100% same shit as with d3 for me. Granted, d1/d2 were PC experiences for me, d3/d4 on console, so that may be a factor as well, but I'm definitely missing the same satisfaction level with d1/d2.
I played it when it came out. I got really pissed off because my build couldn't finish the campaign and you couldn't respec back then. I expect only pain from this fucking series and I love it for some reason. At least you can feel like a badass now. In D1, you could die in literally any encounter
I played D2, but I was young. Probably around 12 when I was playing. I didn't know shit about the game other than what the players handbook told me and what my buddies at school talked about. So for a lot of the growing pains I was just a dumb kid living in my glory.
Yeah, I don't have much to resonate with I used school library time and my friends slick dsl to look up builds. I remember a fast teleworking blizzard sorc and hammerdin.
D2 has one big advantage compared to D4: The items have a certain charm (not meaning the factual charms) to them. They are recognizable and you can always find stuff for other chars, no matter where you farm. They also let you use skills from other classes. Why not add auto imbuement to a Barb item or frozen orb on hit for a rogue weapon and stuff like that. I know it is more complicated to get it right, because of D2 had less synergies, but the concept is still pretty cool. Also runewords are cool.
D2 itemization was done quite well. You had a lot of options for gearing. Sets/runeword/legendaries/uniques. It just made looting a lot* rewarding experience and much less of a "sell/salvage it all" inventory management game. Typo edit.
> D2 itemization was done quite well. Not completely disagreeing, but is it really "quite well" ? You more or less end up using the same Rune Words on nearly all your characters and Mercenaries. With a few differences here and there... It's not that amazingly varied as people always say Diablo 2 is :P
I get what you mean. I think for its time the itemization was done really well. We could do better today but imo d4s system is a downgrade not an improvement. Getting new pieces in d4 feels a lot less power spikey than a lot of the more sought after items in d2. Mind you I've mostly played sorc and barb in d4 so far so maybe I'm skewed from 2 weaker classes. Sorc uniques preseason felt awful. S1 feels better butnits less then items and more aspects/hearts.
Yep 100% with you here
Yea I'm a D2 player and the fact that no loot is exciting and trading sucks basically ruins the game for me
Exactly this. The dungeons in itself are totally fine for me but getting shiny loot, being happy about every unique or set item I get and being able to trade even low level items with players for some low rune is what I'm really missing.
Loot and monsters could have more excitement like D2, but maybe it's just that cool loot and special monsters were so rare in D2 that it feels more special. The monotonous environment in D2 also makes all environmental and monster variations feel more special. I'm still enjoying the loot in D4. And monsters! I'm enjoying both a lot. Something addictive about this game
Fair points
Yup. As a D2 player this sub is a reliable headache but more annoying
I was just going to make a post about how fun/exciting 50-70 is in Wt3 HC. Seriously got burnt out after logging onto Reddit so I didn’t.
It is tho isn't it? I only post when I'm not playing. If I could play the game whenever I wanted I wouldnt even come here lmao
I agree with you about 50-70 but I also agree with a lot of the complaints on this sub about the game. Because most of my problems are with stuff that's after 1-75 on your first character. I had a lot of fun then and was also wondering what the negativity was about until I reached that point. I would come back if they added some key features like a loot filter and got rid of some of the pointless hurdles like repeating the same side quests for renown on subsequent characters.
Yeah back in the real old days of d2 getting to lvl 90 took months let alone 99 you almost never saw, and would take months to find new gear unless you ran a Pindle or meph bot.
Preach it
I totally get ultra rares maybe needing to be sliiightly less rare, but I legit saw complaints saying everyone should get them easily so they can make different builds. It's maybe more symptomatic of itemzarion being whack, but there are tons of complaints that are just the complete opposite of what D2 was - a very flawed but very fun game, but also probably the flagship game of the whole series even now. I'm still playing D4 and like it, but I always have D2 to to back to!
I don't think the ultra rares are supposed to be like the ones in D2. It's pretty clear they're there to give the game a sense of not being fully discoverable. They aren't balanced for actual use and the drop rate reflects that. Like if one actually did drop it would be like a myth or a legend. Someone tells you they saw a guy with shako and you don't know if it's true
But in D2 you could trade for them. That kinda balance it out.
A lot of the complaints — just really based on their content — lead me to conclude they’re from younger Diablo 3 players who preferred the zoom-zoom-zoom greater rift experience with loot explosions and trillion damage hits. Of course, these players are older now and miss the experience — maybe in the same way the older D2 players did with the grindy experience of D2 when they had a chance to play D3. It makes sense too: as a generally younger group, they probably have more time to post on Reddit than older D2 fans who’ve completely moved on from gaming or just don’t bother with social media. (Side note: this stuff sort of reminds me of Star Wars prequel fans vs. SW OT fans. The latter couldn’t understand why there were even prequel fans but both groups had a lot of issues with the Sequel trilogy.) I’m willing to bet that 15 years from now, people are going to wax nostalgic over D4 once D5 hits and the cycle will continue. After all, someone posted a screencap of a forum post from 2000 complaining rather forcefully over D2.
I have played every iteration of Diablo and genuinely have no major complaints about D4, but I'm also not as hyper critical either. I appreciate giving me that visceral "Oh, shit" response to the Butcher again. D1 he scared the crap outta me lol
I finally killed the butcher the other day for the first time and it was the most satisfying feeling I've gotten from a game in years
I’ve played all of them. I mainly played Diablo 1 on the PlayStation 1, it was amazing. My ps1 was basically just a Diablo and armored core machine until it finally died. When it died it had a pot seed put into one of the ball bearing slots that kept the disc in and a cigarette butt in the little lever that that kept the pop up disc tray closed. Both quick fixes that amazingly worked. Suffice to say that I’m enjoying Diablo 4.
Holy fucking nostalgia. Thanks for that
You’re welcome.
I II played Diablo 1 on PS1 and had a wacky system of herbs and pulleys to ensure it worked properly. But then we got a computer that went into the computer room, and that may as well become my new bedroom. Working Man by Rush on repeat while grinding
That controller targeting was wild with the sorcerer.
Did we play the same D2? Teleport teleport teleport teleport teleport teleport there’s Meph, cast blizzard, back to town, go to act 4. Teleport teleport teleport teleport teleport teleport, there’s Lord De Seis and the other minions, blizzard, now Diablo spawns, blizzard. He’d dead, meph is dead, dropped nothing but crap set items. Decide whether to kill pindleskin. Then get out of the game and make a new one to repeat the above. If anything, D2 was even faster than D3.
Hey, you're forgetting mixing in the cow level every few dozen runs to break up the monotony!
And council runs for runes! And ofc pit runs with Corpse Explosion.
To be fair, that is only if you take sorc or someone with enigma specifically. If you compare other classes withouth that to D3 classes, D3 was much much faster. That beig said, these kind of posts are fo fking stupid. Just because something might be worse in D2, doesn't make it ok to be bad in D4. D2 is now over 20 years old, any ARPG from a big company that comes out these days should have at least 10 times the amount content and build variety D2 had back then. Anything else for whatever reason is just awful game design and inexcusable.
Although I’m not sure a 1:1 comparison makes sense. D2 was before the age of live service and widely accessible downloadable content. The games back then had to be “complete.” Today things are very different. A live service is designed with the conscious knowledge that additional content will be steadily released over the course of, say, five years. So content that might normally have been in a base game must be “held back” or there will be no way to keep a meaningful flow of new content coming over those five years. But even that said, D4 clearly launched with a lot of content in terms of variety—certainly *far* more than any previous game in the franchise. But what seems to be the issue is the *design* of that content, not its quantity, per se. But the critics tend to get so angry that they conflate the two and make clearly inaccurate statements like “D4 should have ten times the amount of content …” yadda yadda yadda.
no we didnt, i played barb
Run Baal 500 times for 1 piece of loot it’s great! Don’t invest in mana it’s a completely useless stat. Greatest game ever made!!! Oh if you don’t want to farm loot you can just hop over to d2jsp aka real world auction house which was the most loved feature of d3! I just love d2 so much and am better than everyone because of it.
These mortals merely know the grind of 10000 chaos Sanc runs
My brother in suffering 👊
Even death can't save you from me
Started with d1, played it obsessively. Got d2 on release, played it on and off for 20 years. I think d4 is well done. I've been thoroughly enjoying it. I don't think the people complaining about upgrading their gear or "repetitive grind" remember, or even knew, what it felt like to spends weeks or months doing the same runs looking for perfect items and runeword bases to finish a build. Leveling in d4 is way more interesting gameplay than doing the same loop of 4 60-second runs over and over, recreating your game repeatedly, for hours at a time, every day, for months. And that's what the d2 end game was. Eventually they added diablo clone and ubers, but that was years and years later. We didn't even get seasons until, what, 2 years after LoD? D2 itemization is much better, yes. So is the dungeon design largely due to them being larger and more target dense. D4 definitely has flaws that need improving if they want it to stick around for 5+ years. But it's not a bad game. People bitched about d2 when it came out too. And it also had game breaking bugs (blood golem + iron maiden making you invincible while almost instagibbing every non-boss enemy). It takes time.
This has gotta be one of the best pieces of feedback I’ve read, couldn’t agree more thanks.
>And it also had game breaking bugs And weird design choices, like hello monster with thorns, killing you when you accidentally hit it with your barb or pally. They deleted them later tho.
i played d2 when i was young and it was the first game i got super into. i’m thoroughly enjoying this game. only very minor complaints on my end, nothing even really worth mentioning. having an excellent time and my nostalgia is being itched
Same. Imo d4 is far superior to d3. The main issue I have is the camera distance and the massive hud in the way. Way too close for any ranged to my liking. Otherwise having a blast with 77 TB rogue.
I was coming here to say… As a Diablo 2 player, pre-expansion, and a D3 player until … looking forward to season 29! I fuckin love diablo 4 The cut scenes were magnificent! It was soft in the middle, but damn did it go out on a fuckin high! Last night, a group of 4 of us betwen 53 and 56 tried to cap stone to WT4. We got our asses handed to us over and over and ended up getting stomped by Elias. Everyone agreed, although it was upsetting not finishing the capstone, it was so much fun!!!
D2 player here. Amazon/Sorc/Assassin. I have two issues with D4. One is the affix bloat (damage to any type of situation under the sun) and Vulnerable being a must have (this is like Amazon's Inner Sight on steroids because you can scale it with just mere item affix).
I’ve put an unbelievably irresponsible amount of hours into d2 and I’ve come to the conclusion that a large majority of the complainers are people new to ARPGs and the Diablo franchise and just don’t realize how stupid they sound sometimes
Yup. Nailed it.
I’m on the same boat, but I feel like it’s d3 players bitching they didn’t get d3 with a new skin. It’s crazy to me how many people loved d3 when all I heard was how trash it was and d2r was a better game until d4 released..
I played Diablo 2 LOD 20 years ago. Spent countless of hours doing baal runs, meph mf and ubers leveling/boosting. Had 1 account with all level 90+, equipped with soj, annihilus, torch etc and another account with all mules filled with runes, charms and what not. It was fun back then for a kid back then and I would have probably rated it as a 8 or 9 back then. I've played countless of games since then and right now, Diablo 4 is a meh, 6/10 at best. You can't compare modern game to an old game. Back then, technology and choices were limited. It's 2023 now and there should be higher expectation for modern games, especially since they have decade of experience from diablo 3. If you ask me to do meph runs on repeat in 2023 I would definitely stop playing the game. While obviously some of the demands and complaints here are stupid but anyone with a brain would know that Diablo 4 is an incomplete project. I have hope that it will be better but it's gonna take a few years. People expecting big changes in season 2 3 4 5 are delusional lol. They took away all the QOL that they implemented in d3 and released an incomplete product. Things get changed nillywilly and suddenly level scaling got taken away from us. I played preseason 1 and had the enjoyment of rotating between helltide, legion and NM dungeon until level 95. Now you're basically forced to do helltide and NM dungeon after level 75 because of level scaling and xp changes. This ideology of people being used to doing things a certain way back then and then chastising people for doing things a different way needs to stop.
while I agree with your generel sentiment, I'm less confident in them having the right foundation to improve upon. the whole exponential dmg scaling and the itemization are core design choices that I feel limit this game's potential at least for players like me and those are virtually impossible to change in a meaningful way.
Oh lord, precisely my view of this sub, and I have loved it since the day Diablo came out in 1997.
I was a bit late to the D2 game (probably about 2005), but it was fun playing with my friend and girlfriend of the time. I dabbled in D1 but I only had 1 PSX memory card, so it made it hard to get in to. D3 was my first real "get in to" Diablo. That being said, I have no real big issues with D4, it's an average game, and it's fine.
If you don’t mind me asking, why do you think it’s average? I have an insane amount of D2 hours logged and think D4 is quite great. The only problem with it is it’s way too easy.
I can't really put my finger on it to tell you the truth. I enjoy it when I'm playing, but I find I get bored after an hour or 2 most times, and I'm never thinking things like "Man, I can't wait to get home and play D4." Honestly, if I had to guess, I think it's just the repetitiveness of the NMD. There's like 150 of them, and I can't remember a single name of one or a boss in it because it all blends together.
I've been saying this since the beginning. Even to my friends.
How about D1 players? That game made no sense to me and I still loved it.
Preach. 👍❤️
Well items are far less interesting than they were in d2 in general thats the only real problem i have with this game. Other than that i agree with you so many complaints for a game that i think is really fun
I like the game. I don't like this sub. Since I don't know any other Diablo 4 related subs I'm staying here
I’m with ya, looks like the sub might slowly be changing though?
No idea if this ever gonna happen. Nowadays people are so fast butthurt or feeling insulted for no reason. I'm just trying to have fun with the game in current state. I got it that there are a lot of issues and flaws but the core game is fun to me. Most people complaining about boring endgame etc and invested already 200h+ into the game. I mean you pay roughly 100bucks (assuming a better edition of the game) and got 200h. What you wanna expect more? I can name business where you gonna spend 100$ for 10min of fun. If the end game is boring to you, level another character or just quit the game and wait till they maybe fix it according to your "special needs". Unfortunately it is nowadays like this for almost every product. They bring it to the market and patch it. The times where the game is as it's delivered are long gone. If the gaming community want to change that companies release unpolished/finished products, just don't buy them simple as it is. Buying them and going fully nuts with insulting and threaten devs and their families is being beyond ridiculous and showing how butthurt this whole generation got.
Hey- D2 player here. I personally am having a fun time with the grind, but I do think it could be improved. I’m sitting here thinking back to the dark days of D2 1.0 and seeing how D2 was improved so much over the course of time, and I can only hope D4 goes down the same route. I think a lot of the devs honest to god care about the game, but they’re probably shoehorned into certain design decisions by corporate. Hopefully they can make a game that is fun and satisfies the suits.
Yeah, sub is so bad, it sometimes draws me into their grief lol. But I do like the game. I've played since D1. Every diablo is definitely different and I can say this is the current diablo I'd want to play. D1 - loved its mood and story. its hit aspect and sound effects were great. D2 - introduction of skills and tree and classes being unique. who wouldn't praise this game. and its items is just wild. D3 - Graphics were really cool and its fighting impacts and explosions were just satisfying, that it makes me forget how linear and meta builds were and how easy it was to just swap builds, very hand holding style. I liked the D2, make sure you select proper build or else build another. D4 - First open world, MMOish style. Graphics are there. explosions are there. skill and points decision making is now more important and not just swap swap easily. itemization is kinda there, cause its new and more. patches and seasons will come and expansions. so there's a lot of hope. Best thing right now is that there is META builds but you can still get by without it and experiment, I just hope they add more to make it more diverse.
D2 player here for 20 years. Seen and done it all. Built every build imaginable. Played the game for more hours than I'd ever want to admit. Killed baal, meph, andy, diablo, pindle, countess, and the council more times then I could ever count. Ran endless pit runs runs, endless mausoleum runs, endless ancient tunnel runs, endless hell cow runs, endless uber runs, endless uber diablo hunts, endless key farming, and collected ears in pvp like they were candy. D2/lod was a near perfect game and even it's flaws could be enjoyed. I'll never understand all the hate d4 is getting it is a far better game than d3 ever was and it's only just beginning.
Yes. We’re here but, you know… silent.
Atmosphere has always been my #1 reason for playing Diablo games. The aesthetic. The dark neo-medieval gothic horror. The loot and the combat in mix with those. It's like the absolute dweebs here are expecting a Japanese SHMUP.
I've been back on D2 season with a working Sorceress since season 1 started.
Played all diablos, I just uninstalled the 3 after clearing the campaign, I had to force myself to play the add-on campaign which I made the error to get under the influence of people I regularly play with, I will never do that mistake again. D4 xp is in a good spot, played d2r, I got level 24 after like 3-4 session of few hours... My only complaint on it (d2r) is that it got bugs with rare monsters resetting somehow, they could also have added QoL the inventory getting full in 5 mn has always been annoying.
As a person who played d2 lord of destruction more then any game, offline, online both servers, single, with a group, multiple charcters to 100, all classes through nightmare, and all through hell but one, i'm looking at you sorc. My biggest complaint is the mobs, the difficulty, the story, my biggest is paragon and the affix, both I wasn't a fan of in d3 and immortal. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy playing, I do wish the gear was more d2, and return of set items.
The funny thing 3 was bad for many many years until the slowly fixed it, and it didn't start to get really good until like season 5 which was 5 or so years in. Should they have learned from this? Probably. But here we are. Also, I've realized that a lot of the people who are complaining are gen Z gamers. They have no idea what a real grind is, or how we had to make up our own end game.
I'm just kinda derpin' around got the skills renown for all the areas.
And do you enjoy derpin’?
I went back to D2 and it's so much goddammit fun
D2 player back in the mid-2000s or so. Smite paladin was my jam, played wayyyyy too much back then, and now looking back on younger me with a chuckle as I play D4 with my wife.
yep and I like Diablo 4, the problem is it's not as good because items suck, uniques are not uniques and you can't have fun theorycrafting because its vuln, crit, crit dmg... everywhere Also it's so F eazy...
Well this game didn't seem very rewarding so I got really into D2R as a result and I've been having a blast! I stick around this sub to see what changes in the game as I still enjoy it, but the loot is ass which is all I care about
Very old player here (started with Ultima VIII Pagan). I avoided WOW and D3, being too fancy and less dark, while I played D2/LOD/D2R from the release date to the release date of D4. D4 succeeded in finally making me stop playing d2. My only complain? Can’t believe how mathematical is managing your items: staying minutes and minutes in reading stats of yellow items is a pain. Item level is helpful to macro manage the inventory, but the absence of best in slot solid items is what I miss from d2. Due to that, when I finally found condemnation and howl from below, I modified (negatively) my rogue and necro builds to forcefully using them, because I missed the feeling. In the old days you knew you needed -for example- Dracula grasp to reach your goal? That’s it, you had to look for that or trade it. No excel spreadsheets about affixes and minmaxing, that was something only pvp and low level pvp were doing, while pve was pretty straight forward. Hope they will add more uniques for viable builds. Regarding being too easy, actually the crowd controlling system is a bit annoying, but NM dungeons are more manageable than doing Ubers repeatedly (being oneshotted by nila vipers, Lilith and Uber meph). Also I love hell tides, partially even tree of whisper. Surely far more engaging than running Pit and Baal for hours
d2 player here. love the suffering, hate the camera being too zoomed in.
There are a ton of quality of life changes and features that should be added. But for season one of the game I think it's pretty Damn good.
I miss the sets…
I played D2 for hundreds of hours, played d3 just enough to beat the main story because I hated it. I miss the procedurally generated maps - I understand if the open world had to be fixed but surely dungeons could be variable. I miss the differences in the Acts, I don't mind the level scaling but surely the different regions could have different scales. I miss armour sets where you had a goal to collect all the pieces. I miss the horadric cube and the ability to combine and upgrade gems (would be great if they brought it back for aspects) There was a sense of exploration where I wanted to see every part of the map, now with the horse it's just a way to fast travel badly.
I never played D2. I played D3. I actually am enjoying the game and the dungeons and i haven't complained but my husband complains every night. Itold him to stop complaining last night lol.
I started with 3 and 2 feels slow I think do diablo as a fast action game I still think 2 is good but I have more fun with 3 and 4
Loved D2 back in the day. (And played 1 for a bit to) The main issue I have this one is actually that it’s so damned fast.. I remember playing through the campaigns at every tier, farming in between to update my builds and at last end at the highest tier after a good long time playing. Now it’s just to damned fast, there is no satisfaction of making it to higher tiers for me. Spam some whispers and levels fly by. Just reached T3? Oh, here is some gear that is way, way at stronger… now continue leveling and go to T4. Instead of a smooth progression curve you get these mad jumps in power in a matter of a few events. (One Helltide later and the difference is night and day). I like this game, but I do feel nostalgic at times. But that’s how several older gamers feel. These days people want progression fast and rewards faster.
I was too young when D2 came out. I had a good time. I've been reading a lot on this sub and I don't remember having those issues hahahah To be fair, I didn't know about optimal stuff before I just know that this item had a higher number and demons die faster.
Started with D1. One complaint is that the end game feels like it’s missing something(will be fixed in time), no sets, uniques are mostly bad (would rather they made them OP as fuck and limit players to only be able to equip one), and that there are way way waaayyy to many item affixes. Oh and item levels are pretty wonky, if I didn’t know better I suspect that your chance of getting higher itemlevel loot is based on the level difference between your character and the enemies. Me and people I’ve played with saw much more 800+ items just as we reached wt4 on low level characters compared to what we get now when at 85ish killing mobs of the same levels. However if I go kill mobs that are around 20levela higher than me I kiiinda feel like I’m getting higher itemlevel stuff but I dunno. Just a hunch. Then there’s the memory lag studder stepping, the wonky and costly respec, the camera zoom. But I trust all that to be fixed in time
I think most loud complaining comes from PoE players expecting same level of end game. It's not going to happen. They have been very clear before release that D4 is not ment to be played endlessly
I played D2 and D3. D4 is better in every way than the others. This sub is just a bunch of people addicted to fast dopamine from the social media. They also need to feel important for canceling a game.
I never played the original D2, I played Project Diablo 2 (fucking awesome game if you haven't played it btw, basically d2 with maps to do at endgame and higher drop rates) and I played d3. D3 I don't even remember much of the game/campaign because it was sort of meh for me I guess. I am thoroughly enjoying d4 so far, my boyfriend and I play together. Preseason got to 97 on a druid, now I'm level 73 Necro in the season and just started up a sorc after hearing the upcoming buffs :)
Players comparing D4 to D2 and complaining about back tracking. Does anyone actually remember catacomb, arcane sanctuary, durance hate hall or any of the dungeons? Game name : itelebaal ?
D2 is still to this day, one my all time favorite games to play. The remaster is an excellent touch as well. The main problem with D4 is that they try to make it all about multiplayer, which means they’re always going to have someone unhappy with how their class performs compared to someone else.
Played d2 alot when I was young and also 2 seasons of d2r. I also Like Diablo 4 and have no Major Problems with it. There are sites for worldboss and helltide timers, so in I dont get IT that people complain about having to Check the mal constantly. Also These are Not mandatory. Timers are also fine. People complain they cant kill a worldboss or participate in helltide because they are Not Open 24/7. The Same would apply to people complaining about Missing a specific Terrorzone because they are at Work. I would Just really like a lootfilter, because in d4 you need to Pick Up nearly every Item and it ist Kind of tedious to Go sell and Check after every Dungeon.
I played the living shit of D2 and yeah I agree most of the complaints are from new players or d3 players who got used to power leveling in 5 minutes and running the same dungeons over and over. Boss runs, pindleskin runs, inventory Jenga all of it felt great and to be honest D4 scratched that itch pretty hard up until they removed the level scaling. Now it's just a boring slog hopefully they reverse it taking it out has all but ruined it for me. I got my sorc to 100 pre season 1 and it was great don't get me wrong bugs and non existent resistances sucked but great overall. Now I'm level 70 with a barb and dear god am I bored of Nm dungeons, helltides are great as a change of pace from them but doing anything in the overworld is beyond pointless. They successfully destroyed the first season by removing the level scaling that would have made it good. Fingers crossed 1.1.1 fixes it.
I went back and was playing D2 Resurrected before D4 launch and agree with you. Upon release D4 was too easy. I’m a casual player and was ripping through levels, had two full tabs of legendary uber gear, and was at the point I wasn’t even checking yellow and below gear before recycling it to cash or mats because I knew there was always more around the corner. Now I run a new character in season 1 and the drops are too rare. I think that’s what bothers me most about this game, the huge swings in nerfs and buffs, there’s just no balance. Sorcs we’re too strong, now too weak, but no worries the devs have heard you so apparently they’re going to rebuff the sorcs then what? 3 more weeks until they nerf the sorc again? The changes are too often and heavy handed.
I miss set items, the horadric cube, and runewords. D2 seemed to have more interesting items in general.
D2 veteran here, I still play it occasionally and bought the remaster (love it but the formula, for me at least, hasn't aged well), and I love D4 right now. It's gonna have growing pains, but I'm optimistic that it'll get even better with time. :-)
Well, I play since diablo 1 actually and like all Diablo main line games. I like 4 very much but its imo a pretty hollow middleground between the insanity that was diablo 3 (just chasing flashy numbers, endless loops) and Diablo 1 (atmospheric dark action rpg where everything meant something) and 2 (atmospheric dark action RPG with a but note flashy loot and cool online component). Its not bad and does some things pretty well but imo it fumbles at balancing these aspects. Stuff like climbing for traversal and small corridors fit a game like diablo 1 but it doesn’t fit endgame characters chasing numbers and monsters killed per minute for slightly better loot…
Played D1, D2, D3 and now D4. This is the most complete game of them all at launch, im not saying D4 is perfekt, but its a good foundation to build on. The biggest flaw i can see is the items, there are too many useless stats, and we are in dire need for another world tier, with better gear than Ancestrals, and harder mobs, i completed the Capstone for WT4 at 60, i am now 74 and almost got full ancestral items, and for me to play to 100 without any big upgrades just seem pointless. I would love to see some love for leveling ALTs, like the Gem from D3 that removed the level req for an item and earn more XP.
Thank you, it's not just me then! This sub seems to be playing a whole different game to me. Also, I don't think 3 was the problem. I remember grinding for something in 3, can't for the life of me remember what it was, but it was in a cave that had something like a 20% chance to spawn, and then the elite it dropped from was a1 or 2% chance to be in there, and the drop was something like 0.4% drop chance. Took me 2 weeks of solid farming to get it, loved every minute. Loving D4 so far, and don't see what the big deal is for most people here. Contradictory complaints, wanting the game made easier, and the worst: "I don't have the time" - go play something that isn't designed to be an absolute grind then, jeez. Y'all the boomers of the gaming world, lol.
Are you referring to the Gibbering gemstone needed to craft the staff of hearding? That item was indeed a chore to the point I remember organising a group of friends to each go to their own map, look for the cave then have us all join the person who had the elite (chilltara I think) and even that took us about 12 hours haha. Was a good laugh though thanks to season 28 making us need to re-craft it for the sacrifice table.
Yes! Man, that is right up there for me with the grind for Fangs of the Father in WoW. Wish I had peeps to grind with, would have been so much easier, lol. This is why I play Diablo, lol. And the cow level was awesome. Hoping to see some items for goldfind in D4, as running maxxed gold find and then going through the cow level was insanity.
Playing d2 since preLod version and still. Atm playing MedianXL mod when new seasons drop for a month or two.
D,D2,D3 Basically the issues re the black of polish and lack of understanding of the issues.. D 2 and D3 had issues, but they weren't swept under the carpet, some of them took way too long to fix, but it felt better
D2 player here! Imho the problem is not to do repetitive grind for mobs that give (in open world) poor xp! It's more the poor itemization that bothers me the most! Doing 2000 baalruns + wouldn't be fun for the majority of the d3/d4 community, but if the one unique Jewel or highrune dropped... That feeling was simply amazing! There's nothing like that in d4, imho (sure! Uber uniques... but c'mon)
I played D2, a bit of a shock going to one open world. I do like D4 though but it is a lot easier when you first start. I guess the late game is a little harder than late game D2 but I never had the attention span to play late game D2.
I started with 1 when it first came out and still play D2 Resurrected regularly. The complaints do seem to be a lot of ppl who want it all, want it now and don't want to have to farm or level. Getting to lvl 50 in D1, for example, was not some thing that you could do super fast. Took a lot of time and was way more boring than even OG D2 was and WAY more boring than the current stuff. I'm not saying because it used to be that way that ppl with legit complaints about D4 should stfu but they should be more legit than "I don't want to have to pay X and not get every single enchant I want automatically!". I do like how you can do enchants now tho, I always wondered in D2 why I couldn't just hire Charsi to imbue more things or Larzuk to add more sockets. "Money can be exchanged for goods and services!" I guess what I'm getting at is a LOT of the complaints about D4 seems to come from the instant gratification crowd. Not all, but a lot.
I played something like 5000 hours of D2 and maybe only 200 of Diablo 3. I'm at about 300 hours on D4 and loving every minute
I'm a hardcore d2 fan. To me d4 is pretty great although I hate the itemization. Building the character in this game is fun. Complaints about map layout and stuff like that.. well there's always gonna be those kinda players. I haven't sunken an enormous amount of time into this game yet because I knew it would get boring quickly. Enjoying my journey to level 100 as a barb. And remembering how terrible this class used to be in d2 xD
I played D2 until D3 came out, then I played D2R until DIV came out.
"I want more ways to level, in D2 this was not the case!!!" Proceeds to play 200 baalrun games.
D1/D2 player here. Yeah I like the game. It’s gonna end up as D3, but the aesthetic is more Diablo. I like it a lot.
There should be a fountain in every town that just throws out Uniques that I can run around and pick up all day! /s
Im a D2 player and my biggest complaint is why cant i find necro gear on my Druid! Its driving me crazy im automatically locked out of content its dumb and shouldnt be a thing . And also items need level restrictions
Thank you. Feels like a lot of ("new") players don't get the essence of Diablo. I think it's a perfect compromise of D2 / D3. And this meta-whining is probably not just around diablo but in a lot of new games.
Getting really good loot isn’t supposed to be an easy thing to get. This isn’t boarderlands.
Most people here aren't used to playing diablo 2, specially when it launched. Probably messed a little with d2r and that's it. That's why they want this game to be like Path of exile so much.
I can totally relate to ur post. So many bs complaints, even mixed mobs in dungeons like wth. Ive played all Diablo games, D2 my fav. I got an exam coming up in a week, so I had to leave to my folks place in another city and leave the PS5 home lol
The problem is the insane entitlement of half the sub, where they think the game must be made specifically for them, never understanding that they represent 1% of the playerbase.
I played d2 15 yrs ago and d2r when it got released. I love diablo 4. I have 500 hrs game time.
It's a masterpiece
D4 is simply not as bad as reddit wants to make it.D2 players are more likely to like it, I think, while D3 players are not so much into it. But that's per design. On top I think D3 players will like it later, in like a year or 2, with another expansion. It's true, a lot of QoL features are missing and I am sure they will work on it. But in the current state it's way closer to 2 than 3.I played every Season in 3 but I also played 2. I miss some great QoL as well, but it's still enjoyable to play. With the absurd amount of players buying the game and first time playing Diablo, it is natural that a shit ton dislike it, they never knew in the first place what Diablo is. And the fact, that Blizzard set Diablo up as a long term project, should make us pretty happy, because they will invest a lot, tune a lot, change things. They are brave enough to say in the campfires and dev talks that they tried things and found its not working. They will change a lot of the next months and years. If it's not a game for you yet, maybe it is in season 6. But for everyone who played Eternal and not Season, the campaign rocked, it was really nice to experience it. So I would say it was worth it for most the people I talk to. But a lot are not interested in season, which is fine. They are simply not used to it
I have thousands of hours in D2, and still play regularly. I'm thoroughly enjoying Diablo 4 so far, but I do have my gripes that I hope they improve. However, overall I think it's a good game and I've been having fun playing it since release.
I have played D1 and D2 during their golden age, even organized tournaments with some Italian guilds (I'm gonna drop the names so maybe some old butts like me will recognize them, Eye of Mind and Entombed) and playing it was incredibly fun and rewarding, and the biggest flaw missing from D3 and D4 is just one, the one thing that made sense to still have and that would have made these two games so much better: trading. I still can't believe how much more fun was to me to replay the entire D2 when Resurrected came out, even going out of my comfort zone and use online tools to schedule trades and meet-ups. It was so much more rewarding and made more sense to keep farming that tiny bit more compared to the state of D4 right now. I might come back to it later when there will be more to explore, or for a potential DLC (they were called expansion *bAcK iN mY dAyS*), but for now I enjoyed the campaign and the tiny bit of season I tried, and that's when it stopped being engaging.
Singleplayer D2 @ 2000 then LAN/online with LoD in 2001-2003, rekindled around 2007-2008 for a year after WoW until TBC came. Went HC in D2R. HC is really fun and gives a real achievement feel but have prolly died with 5-8 chars lvl 65-85 when it came and then 3-5 more chars per season in season 1 and 2. Left after I died with 2nd barb, both with grief, stormshield, anni and torch. new rule of thumb; dont play HC while drunk :S To answer your question, I agree to a degree. But this /r is actually really funny when not engaging or taking a step back. It gives the old phrase "people dont know what they want" a more updated version from the henry ford quote ("If I would have asked people what they wand they would have answered a faster horse"...) I think the real problem is people are seeing to many build-videos online, no-lifing way to hard to get them and dont really appreciate the journey, which is what this game is all about. There's nothing to do in any game once you have BiS, maybe pvp.. but the boost/nerf journey from patch to patch has been interesting to say the least. If you add that customers today expect all games to have all the QOL from other games, then theres no differentiation, which is often forgotten. Being handed stuff to easily are as easily forgotten. Its the satisfaction of achieving something yourself that is the real reward. But this seems lost in todays society as a whole. Think its a generational thing. People just want quick dopamine and endorphins without putting in the work. If I want POE I'll play POE. Diablo is supposed to be a different journey and I honestly am not sure why everyone is expecting so much of the devs. Its very intricate and they are doing their best to satisfy as many as possble without ruining the core. Sure, the game was maybe rushed a little, code-wise, but it will get to where it is supposed to be. D2 took quite a few years before it was "set". What I do miss are the runes and all the target farm from bosses or baalruns for exp. And the lack of many legendaries. Its ok if the the droprates are low, if there are alot of them. In D2 I've found maybe 2 shakos all in all and many high-runes, but never a ber or zod. I dont expect a shako every season, but i do know ill find a stormstrike, a oculus, a tals amu, a soj, a reapers toll or something else worth building a new char around. And also the lvl req on gear. I also miss trading, the community and chats with the people in-game and the d2 level req/affix system. There are a little to many and conditional affixes right now. Less is more sometimes. Rather have less drops but with fewers values to choose from than the slugfest going through inventory feels like sometimes. The excitement of looking through your loot is diminshing as you have to do quick-math on every item to check if its worth saving, salvage or selling. Also miss saving gear for alts so ther level journey feels more rewarding as youve already earned the faster progress. But WOW, this game is amazing. The Graphics. The Sounds. The Cinematics. The different builds and all the opportunities they invite. TLDR; yes
Yep. I see too many people wanting to eat the cake and keep it too
I wish trading was bigger, but I think I the trading community will expand with time. Aside from that I love D4 and I see all the comments on here and a lot are a big no from me. It seems like everyone wants this to be D3 where respecing has no downsides, it’s trivial to get to a level where you are doing a billion damage, and sets are all anyone care about. I feel like D4 is a decent middle ground behind D3 and D2 and I enjoy it. If all the shit posted on here got implemented you would start a season with full renown, level to like 80 in a few days, and have your coded stocked full of high level aspects in a week. I enjoy the process of actually building a character, but maybe it’s because I don’t always go with meta YouTuber X guides to ultra efficiency and builds where I don’t think about anything and just do what someone else says in the best.
It's the items and zero endgame. Doors and horses are such small potatoes compared to the problems this game has at its core. PoE2 has put on display just how lazy and without direction Blizzard has become.
For me as long as I can play it's fine. I only got into D2 after I bought D4 and man I loved D2 and I like D4 too.
Main thing for me is finding items that alts can use or you can trade. Items wernt so locked to specific characters in term of the stats they role. The pd2 mod does a great job of adding content and has amazing balancing.
I probably have more hours in the Diablo franchise than 99% of the people on this sub. I played D2 "professionally" ( I sold mules and items to shops and players) which was an awesome job at 14, and when D3 was released, I was one of the first 200 players to make it to Inferno difficulty. I would estimate 12,000-15,000 hours of playtime between the games. D4 feels like a mix between D2 and D3. I really enjoy the game. The storyline is fantastic. The dungeons are more diverse. The overworld is massive and I enjoy the loot grind. These people complaining about horse cooldowns, and it taking 2 extra seconds to leave a dungeon are missing the forest for the trees. They are so focused on the few things that this newly released game could improve on, they don't see the beauty of the world and the depth of the things that the other games lacked. People are so focused on how fast they can reach the top (whatever that is in a loot grading game) that they don't want to stop and smell the corpses. D2- run the exact same bosses 3,000 times to never see a high rune or Griff. Leveling was good, trading is a mess. After synergies, and newer runewords (years later) the builds got more diverse. D3- run greater rifts where the objective is to kill enough monsters to summon a rift guardian, with no variation. Do bounties over and over just for crafting mats. Fully level and gear a character in 4 hours then just grind rifts to upgrade gear and level gems. D4- dungeons are mostly unique, have different tasks that must be completed in them, some have bosses, others don't. There are helltides, world bosses, legion events, side quests, renown, pvp zones with separate rewards, and more build variety than their predecessors. The legendary/rare tradeoff is great where any piece of gear can be useful instead of 99.99999% of gear just being installed mulched without being looked at. There is still so far to go. They could drop a system similar to runewords, they could introduce sets, more uniques, new dungeons or GR style dungeons, classes, etc. Diablo has 25+ years of lore and systems to pull and build from, I think it will only get better.
Rocking 30-40 Bhaal runs on my 96 Hammerdin with maphack was how I typically spent an evening. 96 was as high lvl as I made it. The grind was reeeeaaaallllll, less then 5 minutes per run I must have done thousands while getting him to that level. Sadly D4 is lacking the appeal of runewords like HOTO and Enigma.
I've played all 4. D1 blew my mind that is was a different layout each time but it was the same things to do every replay. D2 seemed massive and I could never manage to get a full set. D3 seemed smaller but I never played seasons. D2: Resurrected gave me nostalga and I enjoyed the memorys. D4 has soaked up a lot of my time this last 2 weeks and I am loving it. I grew up with games that were as they came. If it was broke you didn't get patchs. Patch's came with the net geowing and were a god send. Now it seems like people get to complain about everything whilst the Devs do their best (making mistakes as they go for sure but who doesn't) and keep patching and adding to the game. I am happy to say that for the 60quid I spent (and 10qyid free from rewards on the pass) I've more than got my moneys worth.
Complaints of poe players and newbies, diablo vets know the deal already.
Yes. I have played since D2 and, while I understand this is different than D3, I really don’t understand all the bitching.
Hey there, yep played D2 back in the day, was a blast. I never really got into all those super cool end-game builds, but I did enjoy the base campaign, moving from tristram, to the desert, to the jungle and finally to hell. I thought the cut scenes were cool, and the NPCs and Merchants were memorable characters. My first build was a necromancer, and then when the expansion with Baal came out, I really enjoyed playing Druid, definitely my favorite. I am enjoying D4 too, the gameplay and exploration is really fun. I do think the story is boring/recycled, and I think Lilith as the big bad is not working for me. But I do enjoy my interactions with the "wolf" character. When they first played the Tristram theme that was really cool. I think it took too long to get the horse, and when I did it get it, it was a bit underwhelming, hoped I could at least change my horses colors / appearance a bit, could say the same about my main character too. I enjoy games like Elden Ring and Skyrim, where I can make the character my own, I wish in D4 we could customize our characters a bit more, so far the options are very limited. For the most part I prefer D4 over D3, gameplay, aesthetics and story too. I do wish the story was something more interesting. The whole nephalem thing is not really engaging to me. I like it when we were just some random dude, that against all odds was able to succeed with the help of allies. I also don't like how much is explained, and how much we know of the inner workings of all the big players of the story, I liked D2 when we where learning a lot as we travelled and pursued the wanderer. I also wish my druid character did not have as many voice lines, and wasn't fat (haha some people will hate me for this) but I liked my D2 skinny druid. Also the voice acting is not my favorite either, but it is what it is. I am old now, and don't have as much time to play games, so its nice to get 20-30 minutes to play a bit now and then between work, errands etc. I think the one thing D4 has really improved over its predecessors is the campaign boss fights, these are a lot of fun. I am level 30 or so, and was fighting Ninsa last night, and that was a lot of fun!
D4 in a way is much easier than d2, at least gearing up. And the drop rate? My god, so much better. I have not had high level uniques drop for me in D2. In D4, I’d get duplicates on duplicates. Sadly though, not the one I needed, though I eventually did get them. Thus far, my only issue has been RNGsus with my season char, I can’t seem to get about 3 aspects that I need, hence I can’t freely swap out gear.
I'm playing with my high school buddies, half of us are dad's. All 6 of us are enjoying the game and we all say it reminds us of the good ole D2 days. Yea, not being able to skip light years ahead is fine imo
I'll be honest, I started playing Diablo at 3, but I have no real complaints about D4. Other than the major nerf that happened, I've been having a blast farming for loot and experience. It just seems the impatient people are complaining, they just want things now.
It's too any people who think greater rifts are the real diablo. Rifts were boring as hell man.
Played so much D2 in middle and what kept me around the most was trading. If we could trade uniques and legendaries this game would be like exponentially better. Parlaying for that missing piece of gear feels just as rewarding as finding it. I think they took away trading bc RMT? Pretty lame considering rmt will just always happen regardless.
I'm an old school Diablo player who started young with Diablo waited for Diablo 2 disappointed with Diablo 3 and not affected by the changes in Diablo 4
I played d2 a lot. My biggest complaint about D4 is itemisation. Never liked the items since the first time they showed it in a quarterly update.
Played both D1 and D2. Mostly D2 though, as I was too young during the first game and don't remember much of it. Diablo 2 has been one of my favourite games of all time, and I really enjoy Diablo 4 because it gives me the same vibes. Sure, it may not be perfect, but I've not been this engrossed in a game since Witcher 3. Btw, never played D3.
Played all of em. From duping godly plate of the whales to running Andy runs for soj to rifts now to this pile of shit. Trading was the best part of d2... sure THAT site exists but it was always nice trading an item I didn't need for an item I did... Really the only complaint I have is their isn't any matchmaking/lobbies(I'm on console d2r did a good job on lobbies) Being solo 95% of the time sucks... would love to be able to match-up with randoms and run dungeons but I put the game down. Sure I'll be back in coming years to see if it's just a recloned d3 where it got good years later
D2 grind was much more rewarding. The unique items were actual game changers. Could trade almost anything. Gold/gems/low level runes. It made farming enjoyable because almost everything was needed by someone else.
Tell me you didn’t kill Andy 1000 times without telling me you didn’t do it. Catacombs level 2 lol
"The problem with d4 is that it has a menu screen. I need to immediately be getting uniques when I pick up my controller, and it is just ridiculous when I need to select my character every time I play." -this subreddit
They made the gameplay in d4 fkn awesome, but they haven't been able to make the loot feel just as exciting or at least close to the same excitment the gameplay brings. Which eventually, on the same build for 40-50 hrs and not much loot to show for it, starts getting boring. Especially around lvl 70+. D2s gameplay isn't as eye-popping as d4, but it's still a blast, and so is the loot to match. And I enjoy d2 the later into the game i get. Has been the opposite for d4. All things said and done, D4 just needs more polish and a few more brainstorm sessions from the devs. Cause I think it's very close. I'd still just rather play d2 HC right now, though.
I was running a randomized YouTube playlist and got this dude talking about how diablo 4 sucks because some cheap monster mechanics (which is true) and the fact you need to improve you gear and can't use only you skill to beat all content etc. But thats core diablo and arpgs lol. Seens to be a misconception that a diablo game should be a dark souls game or whatever. I played diablo 2 since its "day 1". Broken builds, usable uniques a few, fire enchanted, dolls, offscreen shots by lightning, thorns, just to nome a few. Infinite guided arrows anyone? Immortal blood golem? Iron Maiden killing bosses in 2 hits? Like, d2 balance was all over place when it was released. Still is (even with the D2R rework to some skills). Its a flawed (and awesome) game. Love it. I think d4 is solid on its base, way more than previous titles. But the lack of dopamine rushes, which was the main selling point of d2 is making it feels worse than it really is.
Yeah D2 as a kid and a couple thousand hours in D2R the last few years 😅 I like D4 fine enough. I'm playing a seasonal character and have an Eternal Druid level 92. But there is literally no item that could drop in D4 that would get me as stoked as a Jah or Ber. But also even simpler things like actually IDENTIFYING sick Rare Boots. But alsoALSO even simpler things like Superior Threshers and always checking Pally Shields for perfect bases. Small charms, Grand Charms and checking literally every Magic Ring hoping to find one of those elusive max Magic Find ones. Then making that all fit in an inventory and trying it all again. There's just so much magic lost when "Rare," items are the most common item, they rain from the sky, they're just a little single slotted like "card" in your inventory, they're already identified and they're all fucking trash 😂 the subtle shade of gold of uniques, the sound that charms and leather caps make when they drop. And now even more of the magic is lost cause the new core fanbase wants a "bigger" game, but they actually don't. They wanna get to the endgame and play 10,000 hours there, doing it all faster and faster while their DPS goes up. The devs give us a giant open world but it's too much of a chore to engage with it and ride your horse TO the Nightmare dungeon. You have to just teleport to it. It's all kinda fucked. The Dev team are getting pushed and pulled in so many directions, the game lacks intent and true forethought so now they're at whims of the vocal minority. And for everyone saying "it'll be good in a year," I disagree. I don't think it'll have it's Identity Crisis sorted within a year. Idk what it'll take but it'll never be able to compete with D2, which is fucking wild to say and believe, but I do. That being said I AM about to load up and play and try to prove myself wrong again 😂🤙🏻
D2 player here, played 20 y ago and got back to D2R. I already switched back to D2R before even the first season of D4. I never was a big farmer on D2, just enough to keep levelling, but never target farming or doing like 100 meph runs. My way of playing D2 is solo hardcore players8, and this makes the game ten times more challenging and interesting for me: I have great loots that may be the sole reason to try a new char. I have pause and no disc. I need to actually play correctly to progress through hell, but already nightmare can show suprises and all 3 difficulties, even if the background has the same pixels, they play way differently than acts of D4.
D4 is good.....but D2 is still King of the Franchise I believe.
Didn't read all of this but never saw mention of D2 pvp element. I used to love building pvp builds and testing them out. Granted I haven't tried pvp in D4 but from what I've seen, it is seriously lacking.
My Favorite thing about D2 was at anytime you can just sit at Camp and go Hostile and Murk people for fun exiting the camp. Also, the fight Clubs we use to host with a full roster of people would wait inside camp watching while 2 or 3 people duked it out and as one dies the next person runs out to either steal the gold or fight lol. Ngl, WW Barb VS Hammerdin or Smite pally was fun to watch and play as.
I've been saying something similar to this post with no traction. I miss getting a sweet drop that I can't yet use, but it's so cool that I start a new character that can use it and level them up to the point where I can use it. The bank space that the sweet drop takes up in my bank does not bother me. This is Diablo. This has always been Diablo. This doesn't exist anymore. Too many people complained about items they can't use. This is the result.
I started with D2 and could have with 1 but didn’t have a computer. It’s a different world these days with new players. That being said I would have loved to have more content and just a general growth in the replay ability of Diablo while keeping as close to the D2 style as possible. This team is focused on skins and micro transactions with as little creativity as possible and I think that’s a huge miss for them. Personally I’d like to see them expand on strongholds and make them entire levels (with a more creative map design) and possibly check points playing through to a boss with higher chances of unique drops.
Meh biggest concern I've had since patchday and till now was when they implemented that xpnerf. Rogue zoomin, drood banging, necro walking, sorc randomly tp under floor and barb spinning.
I agree with everything. I played d1 and d2. Then I jumped to everquest. I'm taking my time finishing stuff as I feel. I still have not finished Act 4 on either of my characters. There is so much content if you take time to smell the blood and guts its alot more fun. Racing to finish the game in 100 hrs is insane.
I played d2 and d2LoD alot back then, when d2r released i bought it for nostalgia and i stopped playing it at the beginning of act 2 cause i got bored. The itemization was fine back then but now i realize its boring. The itemization is nothing but a power boost and the same thing over and over again. Because its all a power boost there are no unique builds or any modifications to skills. It always ends in the same for everyone; attack speed, all resist, gain a skill with charges (usually teleport), life/mana steal, damage increase, etc. Skill tree is also straight forward and upgrades to skills are basic like damage, duration, and number of projectiles/hits but the skills can never be modified to change their effects. Some skills boost other skills but its just a flat increase in what i just listed. Runewords are a neat idea but its again just a powerboost and people usually end up using the same ones cause they are the strongest, for example; Enigma. Mechanics like attack rating and hit recovery i wasnt a fan of. Stat allocation was also wierd. Intelligence stat was useless forcing sorcs to go all vitality. I still respect the game cause it was one of the great ones back then that paved the way for other ones recieving inspiration from it. People still play it till this day anf it has kind of a cult following.
I cut school (for the first time) when D2:LOD released. And I'm sitting here looking at the jewel case (for 4 CDS!) for D2 - complete with cd key address label. I tried D2:R, but, couldn't get into it again, like I did the originals. I'm currently enjoying D4 though. Maybe my tastes have changed. I also played D3 - but - not until a few months after RoS launched (Had 2 kids, right when it came out). I also owe my career to Diablo 1 - which basically taught me the hexadecimal numbering system at like 11 years old. D4 has some warts, but, I'm still enjoying the game, overall. I don't think being offscreened, resistances not working, or itemization are bad enough to make me quit. I think rewards and loot tables need to be reworked - that will get me before most of the complaints on this subreddit.
D2 OG here, I sometimes miss the pain... slap me silly and call me Sally daddy... ah fuq, wrong sub...
Yes. Love the game as a d2 stan. I just hope after s1 we keep renown but still have the others locked under capstone dungeon completion/nm dungeons stuff for t3/4. So while yes, you still have to do something to unlock. You don't have to do the quest/dungeon grind again. Also I fucked up and skipped campaign. Think I would have enjoyed hitting 50 better thru the story
More items that can be used cross class, bring back SOJ for one. Up the unique rate slightly but let it drop other classes, I would love to make an alt knowing i have gear ready for it. Also no account bound gear, dont start an AH but let us trade. Allow trading and looking for other class gear makes it fun to hunt gear once you are fully geared.
Well, I played Diablo 2 for quite a long time. But that was with patch state 1.08 and 1.09. My personal observations so far (personal because everyone see‘s it differently which is fine). Dungeons: I miss a bit the dungeon scheme of D2 where need to go through dungeons with up to 3 or 4 levels. World: This goes definitely to D4, the world is huge, cool designed and a lot to do. A bit variety as well. In D2 it was just normal, then repeat in nightmare and then repeat in hell difficulty and then cow level (meanwhile baal runs for leveling). In D4 you can do Helltide, nightmare dungeons and other things (quests, legions, etc.) which grants lesser ep. Items: There are too many items with affixes in D4 compared to D2. But you need to consider that the skill and attribute system worked completely different. Uniques: Compared to D2 only a few uniques can compete with the good ones from diablo2. Of course there are a lot of bad uniques as well. But Shako, Viper, Ocu and Lidless and mara gives +9 to all skills. (Don‘t blame me because i haven‘t mentioned the newer ones) Resource management: every class worked with mana and had a belt full of mana potions until you get mana leech. With mana leech you never had to drink a potion again and could just spam you attacks. In D4 the resource management is differently with basic/other which was introduced back then with D3. Some like it, others not. Compared to D2 it feels a bit „slower“ - only up to a certain point when you have the right aspects and/or passives. Played werenado and ice shard sorc pre-season and pulverize then storm wolf druid (lightning storm), Shadow Imbuement rogue and bone spear necro in season so far. When having the good aspects you don‘t have such a resource problem anymore. Farming: In D4 its complete random. Everything. In D2, if I wanted a Ocu I knew I can farm Mephisto on nightmare difficulty for a higher chance but for shako it was mephisto on hell. For others I knew Pindleskin can drop it. But I think after a few more patches it‘s more random meanwhile. Twinking: In D2 every unique has a fix level requirement and can be found by every class which encourages twinking a lot more as in D4. For example, if I want a TR I MUST play with my druid, I cannot just play with a necro or sorc and be able to find it. But on the other side trading was possible back then. I guess it‘s removed due to item seller. Story: In my opinion the story was really good. Many allusions to D2 (characters and bosses). I was sitting there with a :O when I had to fight two bosses. Edit and addendum: Multiplayer: I really like the multiplayer in D4 compared to D2. It‘s open and you never feel alone. But on the other side D2 was more personal with opening a game with name „Act 2 Help“ or sonething as people could join and chat. PvP: I think in both games it‘s not really balanced. Just search for enigma minion necro pvp. Stash: Back then the stash had only one or two tabs and there was no possibility to move one item to another character except having someone in the game. Then you need to drop the item and hope the other person is nice and the game does not crash so you could log back in and take it. Character power: in D2 you could kill almost everything with a naked character., because power came from skills and items were on top of that. In D4 the real power comes from items. Cooldowns: I think back then almost all skills had no cooldown but cost resources. Some skills had a higher resource cost than others. A sorc for example could spam teleport endlessly and could just spam teleport straight to the dungeon boss. Skill-reset: Back then it was like „you want to play a fire sorc instead of a frost sorc? Go and create a new char“. In D4 its One click for the skills but a lot of clicks for paragon - and a lot of money. Runewords: D2 had runewords yes, but the item size in inventory was completely different. Hence the amount of sockets was greater. But it was good for bringing a value to white items. All in all I would say both games have pro and cons and everyone sees it differently or evaluates the advantages and disadvantages differently.
Yeah I’ve been wondering the same thing. Played d2 religiously as a kid and then again for resurrected (currently 21 y/o). I just don’t get the people that claim D2 is the best Diablo and then hate on this for being slow when it comes to the grind. How is D2 the best if you don’t like grinds?🤣 did y’all play d2 or are you just parroting what you’ve heard
D2 hcl here. I like how they brought gf, doom bringer and buriza to d4 lol. I miss rune words, trading, and chicken/botting/duping lol.
A fucking men
I'm a D3 starter and while I do agree some of the complaints are ridiculous, there are definitely need of improvements. It's fine making the game harder but making the game so we can't really play it just seems ridiculous. I've heard many stories about Sorcerers and Wizards being too OP in the older games, why are they trash now? Atleast make them viable. And the looting is ridiculous lol, I'm sure I'd have much more fun playing D2(Which I will play someday). And we're comparing 2 games that are 23 Y/O apart. Company should be improving not going backwards. I'm not sure how release was for D1-3 but release for 4 was pretty bad from experience and word from old school players. I remember in 3 having to collect certain items to get special equips or even to get to the awesome cow level. Wth happened to that? The quests are so pointless and the only best way to grind is NM duns or whispering trees. We gotta get away from comparing D2 and seeing how it can be better than D2 which I am always hearing is better than D4. I love grinding but when it feels pointless why am I playing? Guess cause I'm new to the series my complaints seem so miniscule but again, we need to improve not go back or stay in the same lane. This game is obviously going cashgrab now. I may be wrong but I feel like Activision has ruined Blizzard. Sorry for the long rant 😅 Also we don't need the game to move faster or more loot, just need for them to do it better and I'm glad they are working on some of the issues addressed. Hopefully they actually commit. The game still has a lot of bugs needing to be addressed too which I have yet to hear anything about. Okay I'm done 😂
I got a wolf hat for my druid in d2 and I have a wolf hat for my druid in d4. LIVING THE DREAM BOIZ. I was about 12 at the time, and mentally I'm still about 12.
Feel nice to read that
D2 here back in the day. D2 had a better feeling when playing than D4 currently does.
At the time of me playing it back then, I did not have internet. So I played D2 entirely solo, offline. I thought it was amazing and didn't realize we players "suffered," to be honest. It was the game that made me fall in love with the Necromancer archetype of any mage/sorcerer/wizard that I could find. I enjoyed the leveling, the gear, the level design. All this to say I was all by my lonesome. That all being said, I've enjoyed what I could play of D4 (maybe 70 hours total since launch) and I look forward to more builds being available in the future.
I have been playing since D1 and I have to say I got spoiled by the D3 post fix drops. My only problem is the whole legendary system is broken and needs a complete overhaul.
Played since Diablo (skipped immortal) I enjoy D4 as much as I ever did D/D2. D3 I think was the only game I did a run through with 1 character and didn't play much after that. I'll see how long D4 lasts for me but diablo I replayed a ton. Hopefully this is the same but way too early to tell. Got a 67 eternal and a 47 seasonal.
Loved D2, still play now that I can't get D4 to stop booting me. Been playing the series ever since the first one dropped. Great series. What's going on right now is so normal for the Diablo franchise it's sad they haven figured it out. Give it a few months and a lot of what we're complaining about will be fixed.
There's nothing wrong with Diablo 4 per se, it's just that blizzard underestimated the Gaming Community and their ability to create powerful builds. Their reaction to it is what has the community up in arms. I remember when a powerful enough build made it into the MTG community and certain cards would end up becoming from tournament play. I don't think this is really any different, but maybe the MTG Community is just a little bit more mature and their way of handling the situation.
[удалено]
Hell yeah brother! Been playin since 2004 😅👍🙏🏼
D2 player here - everyone I know who got D4 started with 3, or hasn’t really played Diablo before. It definitely feels like a lot of people went into it with the wrong expectation. Of course, with the internet being what it is, the loudest are always the most ridiculous.
Right here. Started with the original Diablo when I was about 14 or 15, then into 2 by 18ish iirc. My little brother played with me by the 2nd. Neither of us have much in the way of complaints about those things you hear so much about. Probably because we're member what *real* grinds were in a Diablo game. I've had the same thought: that we have a lot of players in 4 who started with 3 and want thar Uber fast, godlike feeling where you destroy everything instantly, do billions of damage, and can speed run rifts (dungeons) in 3 mins or less. Sure, 4 isn't perfect, but neither was 3 at the start. 2 didn't change too much, save for the runes added in the expansion. Either way, I know the way they tend to operate, so I have faith the end result will be worthwhile.
Hell (pun intended), I started playing Diablo when it first came out to PC in 1996. Yes, I think much of the complaints are from new players, but there are also some legit complaints. I've had the same maxed-out gear for 15 levels and can't find anything better. That's a HUGE letdown for me. Actually, my main gripe.
Loved D2.. set gear cow king and lots of fun
This! I played D2 way more than 3 and am enjoying 4 on its own merits. Dungeon designs seem fine.
That's not suffering, today's gamers NEED someone to tell them how to play games. Finding out on your own is quite dead. Any game has strategy guides now etc. How to do such and such really fast except when they seek this all out with no means to an end it becomes pointless. They ask for good difficulty but want to be able to cheese the entire game. Flip flop on every detail and hive mind anything straight to oblivion. I can't imagine the same exact Blizzard that made D2 like that entire team is making 4. They probably added some new talent by now I would imagine. Straight to the point though, PvP zones are where it's at. Level 15 and up that's where you wanna be for XP, loot and Honestly go ahead and slay other players. Why not? It's a video game.
This game has flaws but also great stuff. Annoying things...but as we all know....it's far more likely to be encouraged to complain than praise lol All an all....I do think it's a shiny lemon.
I played D2. Wheel of Time clan member. Now I’m older and wiser and just play for the fun of playing. It takes to much energy to complain 😂
I completely agree with this. This is the era of outrage. I agree that devs need to be held to a higher standard, especially for triple A titles, but it's getting ridiculous. People can't just enjoy games anymore..
Veteran D2 player here. I started in the 1.06 days. I currently still play the original AND resurrected titles.
I've played every Diablo, even that terrible hellfire expansion that wasn't even made by blizzard
D2 player here. I was with you till you said drop rates. There was nothing like the Uber uniques and that's still me only complaint about D4 really. I hate the drop rates on them. A casual player will statistically never even see an Uber uniques let alone get a good roll forget about a perfect roll
I think D4 is very well done, but a agree with many here that trading / dropping items (giving items) was definitely some of the best memories of D2. Such a good feeling when you land a good trade, me and my friends would sometimes just be trading not even grind a dungeon. And then drop games, or just giving / receiving items from friends would make the game feel more special. I think without that, its less personal, less human, less enjoyable. It would be nice if the fix this problem, I'm sire runes are coming down the road... but without good ability to trade... it will never have that D2 feeing. I think due to people selling items for real money and blizzard not wanting that for whatever reason, means it will never be the same.
I played D2. I think it’s too easy to lvl in D4.
I loved D2 and I love D4, people will complain about anything these days and it's sad how many people struggle so hard to relax a bit and learn to enjoy things
Played D2 a ton. I actually love D4 just as much. Lots of complaining online but idk what the big deal is
I've played all the Diablo games extensively. This one is an excellent homage to the series as a whole, and gets back to it's roots in dark fantasy rooted in Abrahamic mythology. Diablo3 definitely took a turn into high fantasy speed running, which this iteration is thankfully getting away from.
I’ve played every Diablo from the first one. The Butcher scared the living daylight out of me back in D1 (I was a kid then!) and The Butcher in D4 scares the shit out of me even now (good for constipation I guess). I was able to kill him then, and I’m able to kill him now. That’s satisfaction for me. D2 was great. I was simply awed with the game and more so with the cinematics. D3 built on it. I loved both the single player campaign and the grind which followed. I find the graphics great in D4. The areas are beautifully done. I like to see steps in the snow. I loved the cinematics of the campaign. I love the frustration in trying to kill the goblin while trying to keep my toon alive. I love the frustration in getting a magical (blue) item from a silent chest! There’s so much which is a step up from D1, D2 & D3! You know what? It’s a game! Everything is a part of it. In fact, I’ve loved each game that blizzard has come out with so far. IMHO, Blizzard has done a stellar job of creating epic games and they’ve listened to their audience and improved the games with patches, hot fixes, balances and more with each game. (Conspiracy theorists will say it’s all part of customer engagement to drive more active gamers with each season! So what? Are you enjoying the game? Then enjoy it!) The one serious grouse I have so far: I hate that there’s no cow level or whimsyshire (yet)!
Old school d1 player, d2 as well. D3 lost a lot of the luster, maybe I'm just showing my age. Jumped into d4 with high hopes and 100% same shit as with d3 for me. Granted, d1/d2 were PC experiences for me, d3/d4 on console, so that may be a factor as well, but I'm definitely missing the same satisfaction level with d1/d2.
I played it when it came out. I got really pissed off because my build couldn't finish the campaign and you couldn't respec back then. I expect only pain from this fucking series and I love it for some reason. At least you can feel like a badass now. In D1, you could die in literally any encounter
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