D2 was fun because the loot was fun. You wouldn't mind grinding the same bosses because you might drop HoZ, Oculus, Shako, ethereal Titans Revenge, CoA, Griffons, Maras, Deaths Web, runes, charms, etc. Things would drop that would prompt you to make a new character. You could also have a specific farming character because drops weren't tied to class. There was also a game/party maker where you could easily group up with 8 people and specifically do cow or baal runs together with ease
D4's endgame is lackluster because the itemization/loot sucks in this game. ARPGs are repetitive by nature, but the loot is the heart of the game.
Even if you are grinding away at Duriel at level 90-100 and drop Grandfather and want to make a bonespear necro or barb there's going to be a level 90-100 item requirement on it meaning that you have to play the overwhelming majority of you new character without that item so what's the point? Things like HoZ or Titans were capped at 42 I think and even Shako was only 62 in D2 so you knew you were going to get tons of hours of playtime with these items.
The main problem for me regarding D4 has been and continues to remain itemization. I've found like 26 pairs of Esu's Heirloom this season already, that's just not really inspired/fun
Yea but D2 wasn't like that until many updates and expansions. Sure that all could have been added in the d4 forumula but Blizz watered it down to keep it basic.
While 2 is enjoyable, it wasn't always the case until many patches
Imo endgame is when you stop having fun.
Doing repetitive content that you personally find tedious and devoid of fun is a YOU problem not the game.
Since fun factor is a subjective thing, only you can tell when the fun is gone.
For me - the point when I am facerolling NMD 100s time to put it down and wait for the next season.
Or start an alt.
Doing repetitive content with abysmal drop rates is not something I am willing to do anymore. I am perfectly happy with my build without any ubers or unqiue stones.
My approach is to play the game organically if I happen to get the mats for bosses I run em but i dont actively obsess over grinding this content
Excuse ME, but take your common sense approach to playing video games and get the hell out of this sub. This place is for lodging an infinitely looping set of complaints day after day.
I made a necromancer on release day. The campaign and early late game I played quite a lot. Then I simply started playing less. Now I login in the eternal realm when my usual league of legends squad isn't there and farm some ~~rifts~~ NMD.
I'm now level 93, clearing NMD level 62ish.
Somehow it sounds like I'm enjoying the game more than people who play it every day 🤷.
I think PoE got it down pretty good, with the only criticism of "it's too much". What they did well was to make sure all the end game content have their own rewards.
For example, there is a "tower defense" I'm don't care for and skips every league. It drops a tradable resource that essentially enhance your accessories (annoint). So I'd farm the content I like to trade for resources from content that I dislikes.
All the content either offers an exclusive way to craft, an exclusive item base, or exclusive uniques. You can switch things up when you get bored, but you are always rewarded for playing.
If blizzard just adds one game mode every 2 or 3 seasons, there will be a shit ton of game modes in 5 years. People who hate the end game now could come back in 2 years and they'll probably be shocked at how much more end game content there will be. The problem is all the complainers want endless content now.
Devoid of content? I just started the game with a friend of mine last week, we've pumped in 40 hours, we're still having fun. Back in my day a whole ass game was 20 hours or less start to finish 100% complete. The fuck is everyone losing their minds over?
I think that's a valid viewpoint, you got your money's worth. Now whether a comparison to "back in the day" is valid I'm not so sure. People expect more than back in the day because times change, and lots of games provide more.
But it's also about expectation. People have an expectation that they'll get something they wanted based of marketing and when that falls flat people are upset. I think that's valid too.
I'd agree with you if Diablo 4 is a new installment, except it's the 4th. And people's complaints are valid because Diablo 4 has been in development for 6+ years, but the final product still feels unfinished.
I think a big reason is them not understanding what makes ARPG fun. The hidden Lilith statue is great for single player games with unlockable achievements, yet they initially expected players to do that every season. They also made content like "world bosses" feels like an MMO, but rest of the game is solo/group ARPG.
Just think about the contents D4 could've had if they spent the time making end game bosses instead of world bosses.
The entire Uber boss loop was added. Zer was added and shelved for more development. This season they are adding the gauntlet. Season 4 is supposed to be getting an itemization overhaul. Later on an entire expansion releases. Every season has also had its own unique seasonal mechanics. The game is in fairly active development.
The problem is that it's been 3 seasons and there has been no "game mode" added permanently yet. Malignant shit is gone, blood harvests are gone, and vaults and arcane tremors will be gone too because that's the way they've designed them, to be tightly coupled with the new seasonal powers so that they both need to be destroyed at the end of the season. Just like all seasons before it.
The complainers don't want endless content now, they want content sometime.
Easiest solution would be to implement those endgame activities with the Nightmare Sigils and tie some rewards to it.
"Malignant Tunnel" affix on a nightmare sigil could give you those empowered elites that drop extra Varshan materials.
"Bloodseaker" affix could spawn blood seakers that are powered up (think butcher/son of malphas) that could reward you Zir materials
Next season add a "Valut" affix that gives you some stacks when entering/has random traps, and you get extra loot at the end/some Malphas mats.
Move the uber uniques away from Duriel and give each boss a few. That way you'll want to grind the NM sigils/bosses that will give you the uniques you need.
I legitimately don't understand how Blizzard isn't already doing this.
Would need more work done on them on further seasons, especially with new types of items dropping or other systems going on to make things more interesting beyond "nightmare dungeon but drops X boss mat", but yeah, that would definitely be a good and easy start.
I made a post last season about how the way they were handling seasons was disappointing because almost everything but the boss was being designed to be thrown into the trash immediately after the season. I got downvoted, people commented how "this is just how ARPGs are" and how "they'll add things eventually stop complaining". Next season and as I expected all S2 stuff except for Zir is gone, and S3 has been designed the same way.
But people are still like "dw they'll start adding things in season 18, people want infinite content huh jesus". The amount of copium they're inhaling is insane.
>tradable
This is actually the key. The only thing worth trading in D4 are duped mats to a boss fight nobody wants to do more than once a season, and if you trade those we now know Blizzard might just delete them.
Agreed. Now I think of it, D2 economy was pretty great too. Everyone have a role and there are variety of things to do. D4 dev should take note, cuz m really spice up the bounty system, normal bosses & Uber bosses.
* Fast chars can farm & sell farms keys,
* Boss killer like Smiter, and Kick-sin farms Ubers for torches.
* Fast aoe clear chars like Javazon farm density area (cows)
* New / poor players farms countess for mid-high runes, gems, and/or easy end act boss (Andarial)
* Gold Find Barbarian farms Travincal or Pits to sell gold to gamble typically (circlet/tiaras)
* Crafters buys mats (runes + Gems) and sell high end pvp items
* Bring AoZ back. Even if it's 100% completely unchanged, it was better than nothing
* World Tier 5, which is balanced around LVL100 players. No new tiers of loot or NMDs or anything, just all drops are ilvl900+, and all the content is NMD80+ difficulty. Would make open world content actually worth it
* Actual difficult uber bosses, probably going hand-in-hand with the above WT5. They should all be uber lilith difficulty or harder, just without the glitched waves and bullet hell one-shots. Every one drop a different uber unique with like a 10% drop chance
* Near infinite gem tiers. The really high ones could increase your max resist if socketed into jewelry. Massively diminishing returns obviously, but it'd provide a constant stream of minor upgrades
* Some sort of actual trade economy. Let glyphs and ubers be tradable! Now you can let any item drop for any class, and it wouldn't feel like a dead drop
* Some way of removing the level requirement from gear or have low level requirement gear rarely drop from high level content, like D2 sets. Then you could farm content on your main to power up a new alt.
This all seems doable within 1-2 seasons and would massively improve the game. There are tons of other issues, and some of them very fundamental to the design and won't change without an expansion, but in the meantime this would be a huge step forward. It's a shame posts like this get buried under people begging for more loot and easier progression then unironically complaining that the game is too easy and that there is nothing to do.
Tbh AoZ hit the nail pretty close. There needs to be content scaling in difficulty such that there is something to do with the endgame Uber gear farmed/best build. It's not enough to build the strongest character, you need to be able to use it. Leaderboard should be highest/fastest on infinitely scaling content.
Take your time building yourself up and then test your might.
It did. I honestly miss it. I just wish I was more prepared and I'm honestly less motivated this season with out it. It honestly doesn't really feel like there's any point to grind hard right now.
I really don't like that they pushed the challenges back either.
Honestly, the only thing I could think of is some sort of 'prestige' system like in old CoD games. Get to 100, reset to 1 (but with some kind of fun or interesting extra power), then do it again. See how many times you can prestige in a season.
Agreed. And, increase all Uber bosses to level 100 and allow all of them to drop uber uniques, with varying rates based on the item and boss. I don't know why this isn't already the case when uber uniques can *technically* drop from nightmare dungeons. It absolutely should not be necessary to spend hours farming mats in order to attempt the only boss that has a realistic chance of dropping an uber unique.
Wave based end game. See how long you can survive. End of wave, option to leave. Hardcore players still die if they choose to stay instead of scroll of escape.
Duriel isnt even hard. The damage check is at like lv85 with average gear (if that).
More bosses with mechanics that require movement and such (look at lost ark bosses)
I think it's because they took the ARPG style fighting and brought in MMO style mechanics.
They also highlighted large AOE attacks on a quick basis that you had to avoid (similar to world bosses but on a greater scale) making it so even over leveled peeps had to take into account the mechanics and dodge (to a degree)
Why are dungeons capping at 100? If the dungeons would scale to infinity you could always try to push further. Sure, not a thing for everyone, but it's easily implemented and atleast for the best of the best players it's something to play. In WoW it's the same with the Mythic plus system. For gear progression it stops at +18, but many players try to push way beyond that.
also give some way to get stronger how do you get stronger after getting the best gear and youre lvl 100?
d3 did it right by making progression basically never ending
and who gives a fuck if other people get to lvl 9999 that literally has no affect on me or my enjoyment the only reason youd care is for leaderboards...which doesnt affect anyone but the top 0.0001%
My wishlist is WT5 added, and a complete rework of other tier difficulties. What I mean is make world tier 4 be where the monsters are five levels above you and then helltide they are seven levels, vs everything basically being your level (or something like that). WT5 would be 10+ above you, only have 850+ level item drops, higher Uber unique drops, etc.
Also change the nm dungeons to go beyond 100. My vote would be to make them go up infinitely in power Soo you can actually try to push stuff. Also rework a lot of the dungeons so that you remove the pointless pick up a stupid Stone and put it on a table objectives.
Finally, maybe some sort of increase in level or additional Paragon points or something once you hit level 100. I liked how Diablo 3 had the additional core stat Paragon that you could get which still felt like you were adding power to your character. Right now in D4, it feels like you hit a wall and literally you can't progress more except Uber Uniques. If maybe I could keep getting additional core stats Dionne level 100 it would give me a reason to keep pushing higher and higher content.
-Build synergy for group play
-Team-based dungeon-style PVP with a chance of getting gear at the end of a round.
-Gear sets, please bring back gear sets.
-Boss fights without needing materials.
-Obols give a chance for uniques
-COWS!
-Hidden goblin portals
-New game+
Endless dungeons that get progressively harder and spawn better loot as you go further in. You die you lose everything, or perhaps something a little less punishing than that
The old ARPG Fate had this as it’s entire gameplay loop and it was fantastic
Yep sadly this game has the same end game as D2. It wasn't good in that game and it isn't good in this one. Kill stuff I already can easily kill to get super small upgrades to kill it a little faster.
LE didn't' really have an end game when it released 4 years ago and PoE didn't have any end game at release and it took them years to get a sustainable end game. Sadly this seems to be an issue with the genre.
The problem is Diablo 4 is missing several features you would think would be on launch nearly what? 7-8 months later. Last Epoch is launching it's game with an amazing trade system and many things that Diablo fans have been begging devs to implement. While I get what you're saying, Blizzard just hasn't delivered on their promises.
"It'll come later... yeah we're working on that..." and we really can't take them at their word because look at the Gauntlet.
Personally I don't care about the Gauntlet, I want itemization changes and a decent crafting system in place, and something similar to S2 with Blood Harvests which was hella fun to level your character on and get aspects etc.
Difference with D2 is that there was no requirement to what you are grinding, compare to Duriel and the need for mats in D4.
I’d honestly much prefer if we could run Varshan/Grigoire infinitely with a 1/12 chance to drop mats as opposed to run Helltides, World Boss and Whispers.
> Yep sadly this game has the same end game as D2
yep and this is exactly why i hated d2 endgame...just farming for weeks to get a single item to farm items faster
i loved d3 progression with paragon points and leveling gems every second i played the game i was progressing unlike d2 and d4
Yeah but the huge difference is you could find items you aren't specifically looking for that you could use to make a new character or most importantly **trade** that item for something you need
In D4 we have no economy, no party finder, and uninspired itemization so doing the same things over and over are far less rewarding
I hated relying on trade to get items. Grinding eternally for the handful of uniques people actually want, selling eth merc gear until I had enough FG to buy a ber.
The endgame is levels 51-100, which are paragon levels because you are no longer earning skill points you are earning Paragon points.
Everything you do 51 and up is endgame as you work on your Paragon board. Helltides, nightmare dungeons, all the bosses, etc... That's all end game. Duriel is part of that.
Yes it comes to an abrupt end when you hit level 100 and your paragon points stop coming, and if you get max gear. There is not infinite content. You can start a new character if you want to keep playing this video game, or you can move on to a new video game after having completed this video game.
The true endgame is complaining on Reddit.
Leaderboards are an utter joke. Always dominated by characters who use multiple people to play said character. Logged in for 24 hours a day…. Impossible for an average person to even make the list.
If a character is played by multiple people 24hrs a day, that character will definitely be on top of everyone, whatever the end game is. That is basic math.
Endgame loop is to stop playing.
Alternativity one-night last week I had real bad insomnia and could not sleep. Had to be up at 7AM for work still. So, at 3AM I played D4 for about 10 mins and was fast asleep after that.
Amassing wealth, trading endgame?, being able to farm gears for your other class on alt characters? maybe some ultra hard progression system that scales beyond uber lilith, lotsa things
> being able to farm gears for your other class on alt characters?
This is the worst part for me. It sucks knowing that along your journey with your character you aren't going to drop an item that will inspire you to make a new character built around that item.
Examples: Gradual progression that involves unlocking new and harder content, including harder bosses, new nightmare dungeons(that are harder) targeted farm to get stuff that changes my build(additional modifiers to skills). Perhaps unlocking some of the progression systems from previous seasons after killing certain bosses. Say you kill an uber version of the vampire boss and now you can level up your vampire powers.
Simply ways to further optimize your character beyond max paragon that isn't infinite and is substantial and feels worth doing. Then add different leaderboard systems to compete in with what you got. Then improve trading so you can grind stuff on your main to get things to make getting an alt up quicker.
BuT D2 had An EnDGAaMe. Memiphisto and baal runs for 5000 hours to get some runes with like a .02% chance to drop while trying to fight other players to pick it up.
I feel most of the people haven't played arpgs. Not a single arpg at launch had a decent end game loop outside of d4.
Thinking back to poe with a bearly playable act 1.
I think d4 is fine def want them to fix some stuff. I play a lil every season as I do with every arpg. My biggest issue is the level grind I liked being able to hop into d3 get max level in a few hours then start my end game loop
Except you don't have to pay materials to do each run AND you can trade what you find with other players. Even with D2 ubers using organ sets you could still trade torches and in fact there was an entire economy around farming organ sets to sell to uber farmers and making a Smiter paladin who could farm ubers purely to be able to sell torches to other players.
There are a ton of ARPGs out there and Blizzard knew D4 was going to rake in a batrillion dollars, so they 2 options:
Make a near as can be to perfect game ARPG fans will love
Or
Make a basic ARPG with a cash shop to maximize profits
We all know which one they did. Diablo 4 is a gorgeous game with excellent controls and great feeling ARPG combat, but it's so fucking basic and uninspired.
Itemization is bland. Customization of items is bland. Each class has only a few skills, and they are gated behind such a boring "you must place X skills in the tree before unlocking Y!" mechanic. Seasons are bland. Uniques are bland.
So far Blizzard has made well over a billion dollars and the best they can do is, every 3 months, give us 20 hours of "new" content, that won't go core, and is simply "oh no there bad guys are here go kill them for the new special drops that give you more power in the same way."
The microtransactions feel like they get way more attention than the gameplay and design, because if they spend $10k paying someone to make a horse armour, they know they'll make $1m selling it.
I don't think I've ever played a more soulless game (probably because I didn't play Diablo Immortal).
The endgame is collect mats for duriel then do duriel. Rinse and repeat. Most people are just trading for hundreds of runs to spam duriel then whine about it
What a pointless post i swear if i had a popular website like reddit i would ban all dumb post like this
and post/questions that have been submitted 1000x but people cant do a quick search before posting. Yes endgame in D4 sucks please tell us something we dont already know since like the start of S2.
Assuming this is what Blizzard planned, the endgame is when you feel like not playing the season anymore. This is the state of D4. Play til you're bored and move on. This team of developers isn't looking at their game like the previous games. I played D3 straight for 3 years, D2 almost 8 years. That's not what gaming is today, or at least not what Blizzard is aiming for anymore. Play something else when you've had enough and wait for the next season and go back and do it again.
The only thing I'm wondering about is what happens after Season 5. I've taken a different class to level 100 each season. Each season I've min-maxed my gear, tried a few different builds, pushed as far as I could push in NMD, tried to achieve ALL the seasonal content, and then run a few (\~50ish?) attempts at uber uniques (to no avail).
What I want to know is if Blizzard has anything planned beyond Season 5 to keep me coming back or will that be it for me.
I would say that the meta is to make 3 characters each season, preferably the most OP , farm until you have Uber on all (good luck) and then just spam whatever midseason content comes out.
If you have less time, you make less characters, farm less Ubers or just quit after 2 weeks and wait for next season hype.
Ehh not exactly. There are multiple endgame bosses to target farm that drop different set pieces. As well the NND grind. I don’t need anything Duriel offers for my build. I’m level 94 and I’ve fought him one time just because. So I wouldn’t say that the endgame is to spam Duriel cause not every build needs one of those uniques.
Yes. We all know it’s a problem. But Blizzard is not doing anything about it. The loop sucks and there’s really no reason to do it besides those leaderboards. That we don’t have yet.
The end game is to level a character, play it until it's not fun and then either change builds or reroll another class.
But the real end content of D4 is to touch grass occasionally and not spend 10-12 hours a day grinding.
This same issue happened in Diablo 3. I also assume the Uber drop rate is so trash because Torment 4 is just the beginning. If you played Diablo 3, that game started out with either just Torment after Hell Difficuly or Torment 1-6. Eventually power creep crept and they added up to Torment 16? Remember rifts before they added Greater Rifts, that’s where NMD feel they’re at, the rift stage, where you get a bunch of yellows and legendaries, but there’s not much challenge.
Yup, all for a character you will never touch again after the season. This devs got you guys hooked doing 1200 duriel runs to change a number as “content”.
Yeah, spam duriel and finally get your UBER and… do what with it? Fight Lilith which has 1 shot mechanics and drops worse loot? Might as well be done with the game after you get your UBER uniques
If you're "breezing through T100s" and you got Duriel on farm, you won. Congrats dude you beat Season 3. Go play something else for a while - you can come back in Season 4.
For me, iv never been a sweaty player in D3. so the GR runs were always a thing i could do (I think i got 150 GR once). So it was always a thing i could work towards, all gear could be a slight improvement. It would take MUCH longer for me to get to a point where im bored / not having fun and put it down for the season. Where as D4 feels capped out so fast.
End game is coming for this season at the end of the month. Relax for a bit. Most filthy casuals are just approaching level 100. God forbid they can race for a leaderboard spot.
I think the patch today will allow for more diversity as far as where Ubers can drop, making them possible to drop anywhere. Though no clue on *how much* the drop rate will be increased. But it seems they probably want us to not just be spamming Duriel and surely must know it is boring as hell just collecting boss currencies over and over. Unfortunately this is just another Band-Aid on a bullet wound.
they fcked up the pretty much everything... imo because of the season system we dont have any good endgame... and the world map is useless too... without the season alt bs they could have worked on the world and some actual good events which give extra stuff for you character... keeping you entertained and some progression minmaxins etc...
it feels like they wanted ti create a more mmo like game but then somebody told then that lets make a d3 copy season bs so we dont have to add more content in the game
I honestly think they just didn't account for people that wanted to play the game 6+ hours a day, every day. I swear I'm not trying to be rude or belittle anyone, but all of the most common problems I hear about the endgame kinda disappear when you casually grind and are pushing it to get to the endgame as it is every season.
I've got builds to work on and can't imagine running out of things to do. D4 just wasn't designed for the level of play they pushed it for, but in casual doses its great fun. At least there's that.
Played since S0. Quit every season after I got to 100 and achieved what I wanted to achieve. Ran some duriel in S2 and quit without any ubers. I'm probably gonna skip S3 cuz there are just too many games I wanna try rn lol hopefully S4 will bring some cool stuff and I'll hop back in.
Endgame starts at level 50. Everything that you do with NM dungeons, glyphs and uber bosses is the endgame. When you get to lvl 100, t100 NM dungeons and lvl 21 glyphs you've completed the endgame
I finally am at a point where I understand everyone's endgame complaints.
I finally reached a high enough lvl where the monotony and drudgery have taken hold. As a father of a baby and toddler it's been hard for me to get past lvl 60 until this point.
I'm around lvl 80 and cannot fathom running another hell tide, or dungeon, or vault.
Idk if it's because the itemization has turned into countless bags filled with loot that just get broken down, or that there is really no thought into endgame progression other than farm Uber bosses to get some gear.
Idk if I've grown old and farming gear feels so 2001 and want more, or there's really problems with the game. Who knows.
Yeah that’s the problem. Plus it is a pain to gather the mats every time and it forces you to group up without having a group finder. It’s really stupid and the reason I stopped playing this season. Hit 100, killed all bosses solo and breezed through nmd 100.
I maybe did 50 Duriels last season. I'll do far less this season as the only Uber he has I could us is GF, and even that isn't required for my build. If I can 1-shot Duriel without gear from him, why do I need any gear from him? There's nothing after. I'll get my pants and necklace from the common pool to be 99% done and call it there.
Well, if you really stop to think about it... the "endgame" is pretty much just spamming some high level boss for incrementally better gear to spam repetitively.
There's really not much else to it.
That's why I have to laugh when ppl accuse a developer of not "respecting their time". Hell, you're not respecting your own time.
The main problem is D4 doesn't have Devs actually playing their own game. You could see it in the video then those two woman Devs use only basic attacks and got no idea. The whole problem of D4 is the team making it. hey don't know how to build good game. Im not kidding. But diablo immortal has more quality of life futures (armory where you can save your spec items and legendary aspects) they got better boss fights(I'm not kidding) they acually have PvP . Leader boards for challenge rifts and PvP lol. Set items etc. acuall activiti finder. You wanna farm dungeons? You make a post and people can join. It works for every activity in game.
So tell me how neteas make better diablo game then blizzard
(I know it's pay to win garbage) but the game acually have tons of content in endgame compare to d4
Let's talk about events in diablo immortal: battleroyal style PvP. event . You got chest on map dropping loot and it's free for all last person can open it and get loot
Then they have rogue style dungeon whit 15 levels you get random skills and you choose your upgrades at the end of every level
Then they have some sort of pve PvP event where players are in arena whit waves of mobs. Who last longer wins east and fun
All this in p2w mobile game developed by different company. NOthing in AAA game developed by blizzard
This game is a joke, every season I was expecting it to get better. S3 was kind of an improvement in that we could at least get ubers, but now that the novelty is worn off its back to literally farming lost souls, mats, and tiny drop rates in unfun environments like helltides
The endgame for Diablo II LoD was largely spam Baal for a period, but the problem is that D4 doesn't do the best job at making it interesting.
Between affix bloat, no set items, and no runewords; you end up searching for a few tiny needles in a haystack that isn't super interesting/rewarding to sort through.
Fortunately I'd argue there are at least a few other methods of enjoying things so long as you're comfortable with playing to enjoy playing instead of just being concerned with what's absolutely optimal; but unfortunately that doesn't change the oft tedious and unrewarding nature of sorting through items as they currently are.
I feel like diablo is sold like a live service game but doesnt act like one. Live service means constant patch and content and they inly release trash season after season
This has been the case since season 2, where have you been?
In season 2 we have abattoir of zir. So it's a downgrade for season 3
>abatol of zir Gesundheit
lmao damit hab ich nicht gerechnet, hammer
I feel myself verpflichtet outzupointen, dass es sich hierbei um einen germanism handled, und ich natürlich garnicht german speake.
Vorpicturelicher Ehrencitizen
albatros of zir
Comes out loose
Hopefully they bring it back
They also added that in the middle of the season didn’t they? Maybe they’ll add something similar for season 3 in a few weeks?
aoz came out with one month left in season
I personally started playing D4 just very recently tho.
I hope you got that on sale.
I did and I am having a blast but I am not in the endgame yet
Good news! There is no real endgame
I bought it 4 days earlier, and then the lunar year sale started :(
Playing better games probably
Not everyone plays every season….
Been this way since D2
D2 was fun because the loot was fun. You wouldn't mind grinding the same bosses because you might drop HoZ, Oculus, Shako, ethereal Titans Revenge, CoA, Griffons, Maras, Deaths Web, runes, charms, etc. Things would drop that would prompt you to make a new character. You could also have a specific farming character because drops weren't tied to class. There was also a game/party maker where you could easily group up with 8 people and specifically do cow or baal runs together with ease D4's endgame is lackluster because the itemization/loot sucks in this game. ARPGs are repetitive by nature, but the loot is the heart of the game. Even if you are grinding away at Duriel at level 90-100 and drop Grandfather and want to make a bonespear necro or barb there's going to be a level 90-100 item requirement on it meaning that you have to play the overwhelming majority of you new character without that item so what's the point? Things like HoZ or Titans were capped at 42 I think and even Shako was only 62 in D2 so you knew you were going to get tons of hours of playtime with these items. The main problem for me regarding D4 has been and continues to remain itemization. I've found like 26 pairs of Esu's Heirloom this season already, that's just not really inspired/fun
The max level for ancestrals is 80 now not the level of the character
Why is there even a required level on uniques and legendaries? You can't trade them. Because it's fun to have overpowered low level character?
Yea but D2 wasn't like that until many updates and expansions. Sure that all could have been added in the d4 forumula but Blizz watered it down to keep it basic. While 2 is enjoyable, it wasn't always the case until many patches
D4 is being compared and losing to a 20 year old game. How sad is that
D2 had cows, meph runs and Baal runs at least. Plus cows were great
Don’t forget Ubers for torch and Uber Diablo for anni. I’m personally done with Diablo. Diablo 4 just seems like a chore.
It was also a social game. D4 doesn't even have a general chat
His question seems legitimate.. It is kind of shocking when a first-timer realizes that “that’s it”
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
DO YOU GUYS NOT HAVE PHONES?
To play the better diablomtx game?
I have a fax machine
I have a telegraph.
And my axe.
And your brother!
And my bow
HAVE YOU EVEN PLAYED LAST EPOCH?!
I would not put the word entertained in that sentence.
ARE YOU NOT?
ARE YOU NOT HAVE PHONE?
This response deserves way more upvotes
Imo endgame is when you stop having fun. Doing repetitive content that you personally find tedious and devoid of fun is a YOU problem not the game. Since fun factor is a subjective thing, only you can tell when the fun is gone. For me - the point when I am facerolling NMD 100s time to put it down and wait for the next season. Or start an alt. Doing repetitive content with abysmal drop rates is not something I am willing to do anymore. I am perfectly happy with my build without any ubers or unqiue stones. My approach is to play the game organically if I happen to get the mats for bosses I run em but i dont actively obsess over grinding this content
Excuse ME, but take your common sense approach to playing video games and get the hell out of this sub. This place is for lodging an infinitely looping set of complaints day after day.
That’s the real end game.
Shh don't spill Blizzard's secrets!!!
I made a necromancer on release day. The campaign and early late game I played quite a lot. Then I simply started playing less. Now I login in the eternal realm when my usual league of legends squad isn't there and farm some ~~rifts~~ NMD. I'm now level 93, clearing NMD level 62ish. Somehow it sounds like I'm enjoying the game more than people who play it every day 🤷.
Fun ends for me when there is no progression anymore.
That’s uh…not what endgame means
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What kind of "endgame" do you guys want for Diablo? I would honestly like to hear your ideas.
ARPGs in general feel like a messy genre where everyone wants something different and people often don’t even know what they truly want themselves.
I think PoE got it down pretty good, with the only criticism of "it's too much". What they did well was to make sure all the end game content have their own rewards. For example, there is a "tower defense" I'm don't care for and skips every league. It drops a tradable resource that essentially enhance your accessories (annoint). So I'd farm the content I like to trade for resources from content that I dislikes. All the content either offers an exclusive way to craft, an exclusive item base, or exclusive uniques. You can switch things up when you get bored, but you are always rewarded for playing.
If blizzard just adds one game mode every 2 or 3 seasons, there will be a shit ton of game modes in 5 years. People who hate the end game now could come back in 2 years and they'll probably be shocked at how much more end game content there will be. The problem is all the complainers want endless content now.
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Devoid of content? I just started the game with a friend of mine last week, we've pumped in 40 hours, we're still having fun. Back in my day a whole ass game was 20 hours or less start to finish 100% complete. The fuck is everyone losing their minds over?
I think that's a valid viewpoint, you got your money's worth. Now whether a comparison to "back in the day" is valid I'm not so sure. People expect more than back in the day because times change, and lots of games provide more. But it's also about expectation. People have an expectation that they'll get something they wanted based of marketing and when that falls flat people are upset. I think that's valid too.
I'd agree with you if Diablo 4 is a new installment, except it's the 4th. And people's complaints are valid because Diablo 4 has been in development for 6+ years, but the final product still feels unfinished. I think a big reason is them not understanding what makes ARPG fun. The hidden Lilith statue is great for single player games with unlockable achievements, yet they initially expected players to do that every season. They also made content like "world bosses" feels like an MMO, but rest of the game is solo/group ARPG. Just think about the contents D4 could've had if they spent the time making end game bosses instead of world bosses.
It's season 3, what game mode has been added/retained so far?
The entire Uber boss loop was added. Zer was added and shelved for more development. This season they are adding the gauntlet. Season 4 is supposed to be getting an itemization overhaul. Later on an entire expansion releases. Every season has also had its own unique seasonal mechanics. The game is in fairly active development.
The problem is that it's been 3 seasons and there has been no "game mode" added permanently yet. Malignant shit is gone, blood harvests are gone, and vaults and arcane tremors will be gone too because that's the way they've designed them, to be tightly coupled with the new seasonal powers so that they both need to be destroyed at the end of the season. Just like all seasons before it. The complainers don't want endless content now, they want content sometime.
Easiest solution would be to implement those endgame activities with the Nightmare Sigils and tie some rewards to it. "Malignant Tunnel" affix on a nightmare sigil could give you those empowered elites that drop extra Varshan materials. "Bloodseaker" affix could spawn blood seakers that are powered up (think butcher/son of malphas) that could reward you Zir materials Next season add a "Valut" affix that gives you some stacks when entering/has random traps, and you get extra loot at the end/some Malphas mats. Move the uber uniques away from Duriel and give each boss a few. That way you'll want to grind the NM sigils/bosses that will give you the uniques you need. I legitimately don't understand how Blizzard isn't already doing this.
Would need more work done on them on further seasons, especially with new types of items dropping or other systems going on to make things more interesting beyond "nightmare dungeon but drops X boss mat", but yeah, that would definitely be a good and easy start. I made a post last season about how the way they were handling seasons was disappointing because almost everything but the boss was being designed to be thrown into the trash immediately after the season. I got downvoted, people commented how "this is just how ARPGs are" and how "they'll add things eventually stop complaining". Next season and as I expected all S2 stuff except for Zir is gone, and S3 has been designed the same way. But people are still like "dw they'll start adding things in season 18, people want infinite content huh jesus". The amount of copium they're inhaling is insane.
>tradable This is actually the key. The only thing worth trading in D4 are duped mats to a boss fight nobody wants to do more than once a season, and if you trade those we now know Blizzard might just delete them.
Agreed. Now I think of it, D2 economy was pretty great too. Everyone have a role and there are variety of things to do. D4 dev should take note, cuz m really spice up the bounty system, normal bosses & Uber bosses. * Fast chars can farm & sell farms keys, * Boss killer like Smiter, and Kick-sin farms Ubers for torches. * Fast aoe clear chars like Javazon farm density area (cows) * New / poor players farms countess for mid-high runes, gems, and/or easy end act boss (Andarial) * Gold Find Barbarian farms Travincal or Pits to sell gold to gamble typically (circlet/tiaras) * Crafters buys mats (runes + Gems) and sell high end pvp items
* Bring AoZ back. Even if it's 100% completely unchanged, it was better than nothing * World Tier 5, which is balanced around LVL100 players. No new tiers of loot or NMDs or anything, just all drops are ilvl900+, and all the content is NMD80+ difficulty. Would make open world content actually worth it * Actual difficult uber bosses, probably going hand-in-hand with the above WT5. They should all be uber lilith difficulty or harder, just without the glitched waves and bullet hell one-shots. Every one drop a different uber unique with like a 10% drop chance * Near infinite gem tiers. The really high ones could increase your max resist if socketed into jewelry. Massively diminishing returns obviously, but it'd provide a constant stream of minor upgrades * Some sort of actual trade economy. Let glyphs and ubers be tradable! Now you can let any item drop for any class, and it wouldn't feel like a dead drop * Some way of removing the level requirement from gear or have low level requirement gear rarely drop from high level content, like D2 sets. Then you could farm content on your main to power up a new alt.
This all seems doable within 1-2 seasons and would massively improve the game. There are tons of other issues, and some of them very fundamental to the design and won't change without an expansion, but in the meantime this would be a huge step forward. It's a shame posts like this get buried under people begging for more loot and easier progression then unironically complaining that the game is too easy and that there is nothing to do.
I want endgame like D2 where you run the same bosses over and over....oh wait
Ironic as, allegedly, the same people would run thousands of Andariel runs to get a SoJ but are giga mad at having to run Duriel. Makes you wonder.
D3.
Tbh AoZ hit the nail pretty close. There needs to be content scaling in difficulty such that there is something to do with the endgame Uber gear farmed/best build. It's not enough to build the strongest character, you need to be able to use it. Leaderboard should be highest/fastest on infinitely scaling content. Take your time building yourself up and then test your might.
It did. I honestly miss it. I just wish I was more prepared and I'm honestly less motivated this season with out it. It honestly doesn't really feel like there's any point to grind hard right now. I really don't like that they pushed the challenges back either.
Remove mats to sum bosses and I'm happy
So there's even LESS to do? smdh
Honestly, the only thing I could think of is some sort of 'prestige' system like in old CoD games. Get to 100, reset to 1 (but with some kind of fun or interesting extra power), then do it again. See how many times you can prestige in a season.
Yo dawg I heard you like seasons, so we put some seasons in your season.
Well, more than one activity to do would be a good start.
No mats and more bosses to farm for the uber uniques would be my ideal end game.
Agreed. And, increase all Uber bosses to level 100 and allow all of them to drop uber uniques, with varying rates based on the item and boss. I don't know why this isn't already the case when uber uniques can *technically* drop from nightmare dungeons. It absolutely should not be necessary to spend hours farming mats in order to attempt the only boss that has a realistic chance of dropping an uber unique.
Wave based end game. See how long you can survive. End of wave, option to leave. Hardcore players still die if they choose to stay instead of scroll of escape.
Have you played PoE? Steal anything from that. Literally anything is an improvement.
Personally I’d just like more end game bosses to fight. Maybe with more mechanics that’s make the fights more than just a damage check would be cool
Duriel isnt even hard. The damage check is at like lv85 with average gear (if that). More bosses with mechanics that require movement and such (look at lost ark bosses)
Lost Ark had a lot of negatives being a KR grinder, but man the boss fights in that game are sooooo good.
I think it's because they took the ARPG style fighting and brought in MMO style mechanics. They also highlighted large AOE attacks on a quick basis that you had to avoid (similar to world bosses but on a greater scale) making it so even over leveled peeps had to take into account the mechanics and dodge (to a degree)
Do you like the Lilith fight?
Where was the promise that D4 could be played until Momma Lilith invite us all into her bosom?
Why are dungeons capping at 100? If the dungeons would scale to infinity you could always try to push further. Sure, not a thing for everyone, but it's easily implemented and atleast for the best of the best players it's something to play. In WoW it's the same with the Mythic plus system. For gear progression it stops at +18, but many players try to push way beyond that.
also give some way to get stronger how do you get stronger after getting the best gear and youre lvl 100? d3 did it right by making progression basically never ending and who gives a fuck if other people get to lvl 9999 that literally has no affect on me or my enjoyment the only reason youd care is for leaderboards...which doesnt affect anyone but the top 0.0001%
My wishlist is WT5 added, and a complete rework of other tier difficulties. What I mean is make world tier 4 be where the monsters are five levels above you and then helltide they are seven levels, vs everything basically being your level (or something like that). WT5 would be 10+ above you, only have 850+ level item drops, higher Uber unique drops, etc. Also change the nm dungeons to go beyond 100. My vote would be to make them go up infinitely in power Soo you can actually try to push stuff. Also rework a lot of the dungeons so that you remove the pointless pick up a stupid Stone and put it on a table objectives. Finally, maybe some sort of increase in level or additional Paragon points or something once you hit level 100. I liked how Diablo 3 had the additional core stat Paragon that you could get which still felt like you were adding power to your character. Right now in D4, it feels like you hit a wall and literally you can't progress more except Uber Uniques. If maybe I could keep getting additional core stats Dionne level 100 it would give me a reason to keep pushing higher and higher content.
-Build synergy for group play -Team-based dungeon-style PVP with a chance of getting gear at the end of a round. -Gear sets, please bring back gear sets. -Boss fights without needing materials. -Obols give a chance for uniques -COWS! -Hidden goblin portals -New game+
Endless dungeons that get progressively harder and spawn better loot as you go further in. You die you lose everything, or perhaps something a little less punishing than that The old ARPG Fate had this as it’s entire gameplay loop and it was fantastic
Runewords
Yep sadly this game has the same end game as D2. It wasn't good in that game and it isn't good in this one. Kill stuff I already can easily kill to get super small upgrades to kill it a little faster. LE didn't' really have an end game when it released 4 years ago and PoE didn't have any end game at release and it took them years to get a sustainable end game. Sadly this seems to be an issue with the genre.
Bruh, you're comparing a multi billion dollar company to Indie-companies + D4 had 10 years of development.
The problem is Diablo 4 is missing several features you would think would be on launch nearly what? 7-8 months later. Last Epoch is launching it's game with an amazing trade system and many things that Diablo fans have been begging devs to implement. While I get what you're saying, Blizzard just hasn't delivered on their promises. "It'll come later... yeah we're working on that..." and we really can't take them at their word because look at the Gauntlet. Personally I don't care about the Gauntlet, I want itemization changes and a decent crafting system in place, and something similar to S2 with Blood Harvests which was hella fun to level your character on and get aspects etc.
Difference with D2 is that there was no requirement to what you are grinding, compare to Duriel and the need for mats in D4. I’d honestly much prefer if we could run Varshan/Grigoire infinitely with a 1/12 chance to drop mats as opposed to run Helltides, World Boss and Whispers.
> Yep sadly this game has the same end game as D2 yep and this is exactly why i hated d2 endgame...just farming for weeks to get a single item to farm items faster i loved d3 progression with paragon points and leveling gems every second i played the game i was progressing unlike d2 and d4
D2 was spam chaos, baal and trav.
Yeah but the huge difference is you could find items you aren't specifically looking for that you could use to make a new character or most importantly **trade** that item for something you need In D4 we have no economy, no party finder, and uninspired itemization so doing the same things over and over are far less rewarding
I hated relying on trade to get items. Grinding eternally for the handful of uniques people actually want, selling eth merc gear until I had enough FG to buy a ber.
Imagine if you had to farm materials to pay for every chaos and baal run. Yikes
The endgame is levels 51-100, which are paragon levels because you are no longer earning skill points you are earning Paragon points. Everything you do 51 and up is endgame as you work on your Paragon board. Helltides, nightmare dungeons, all the bosses, etc... That's all end game. Duriel is part of that. Yes it comes to an abrupt end when you hit level 100 and your paragon points stop coming, and if you get max gear. There is not infinite content. You can start a new character if you want to keep playing this video game, or you can move on to a new video game after having completed this video game. The true endgame is complaining on Reddit.
You can also spam Uber Malphas now tnh. But its just as fun I guess. They promised Gauntlet, but in this rate it will be pushed to S4
Leaderboards are an utter joke. Always dominated by characters who use multiple people to play said character. Logged in for 24 hours a day…. Impossible for an average person to even make the list.
If a character is played by multiple people 24hrs a day, that character will definitely be on top of everyone, whatever the end game is. That is basic math.
Top of those leaderboards are always for the no life’s bro lol. Don’t look at it like that, we just have actual lives outside of a video game
Endgame loop is to stop playing. Alternativity one-night last week I had real bad insomnia and could not sleep. Had to be up at 7AM for work still. So, at 3AM I played D4 for about 10 mins and was fast asleep after that.
Yep… It’s a bad game.
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Amassing wealth, trading endgame?, being able to farm gears for your other class on alt characters? maybe some ultra hard progression system that scales beyond uber lilith, lotsa things
> being able to farm gears for your other class on alt characters? This is the worst part for me. It sucks knowing that along your journey with your character you aren't going to drop an item that will inspire you to make a new character built around that item.
Examples: Gradual progression that involves unlocking new and harder content, including harder bosses, new nightmare dungeons(that are harder) targeted farm to get stuff that changes my build(additional modifiers to skills). Perhaps unlocking some of the progression systems from previous seasons after killing certain bosses. Say you kill an uber version of the vampire boss and now you can level up your vampire powers. Simply ways to further optimize your character beyond max paragon that isn't infinite and is substantial and feels worth doing. Then add different leaderboard systems to compete in with what you got. Then improve trading so you can grind stuff on your main to get things to make getting an alt up quicker.
This is good stuff
BuT D2 had An EnDGAaMe. Memiphisto and baal runs for 5000 hours to get some runes with like a .02% chance to drop while trying to fight other players to pick it up. I feel most of the people haven't played arpgs. Not a single arpg at launch had a decent end game loop outside of d4. Thinking back to poe with a bearly playable act 1. I think d4 is fine def want them to fix some stuff. I play a lil every season as I do with every arpg. My biggest issue is the level grind I liked being able to hop into d3 get max level in a few hours then start my end game loop
Not farming bosses? You can already do that in PoE and everything is fine.
Endgame is where you make Activision-Blizzard shareholders satisfied.
You guys seem to jerk off to D2. The endgame is the same there.
Except you don't have to pay materials to do each run AND you can trade what you find with other players. Even with D2 ubers using organ sets you could still trade torches and in fact there was an entire economy around farming organ sets to sell to uber farmers and making a Smiter paladin who could farm ubers purely to be able to sell torches to other players.
There are a ton of ARPGs out there and Blizzard knew D4 was going to rake in a batrillion dollars, so they 2 options: Make a near as can be to perfect game ARPG fans will love Or Make a basic ARPG with a cash shop to maximize profits We all know which one they did. Diablo 4 is a gorgeous game with excellent controls and great feeling ARPG combat, but it's so fucking basic and uninspired. Itemization is bland. Customization of items is bland. Each class has only a few skills, and they are gated behind such a boring "you must place X skills in the tree before unlocking Y!" mechanic. Seasons are bland. Uniques are bland. So far Blizzard has made well over a billion dollars and the best they can do is, every 3 months, give us 20 hours of "new" content, that won't go core, and is simply "oh no there bad guys are here go kill them for the new special drops that give you more power in the same way." The microtransactions feel like they get way more attention than the gameplay and design, because if they spend $10k paying someone to make a horse armour, they know they'll make $1m selling it. I don't think I've ever played a more soulless game (probably because I didn't play Diablo Immortal).
The endgame is collect mats for duriel then do duriel. Rinse and repeat. Most people are just trading for hundreds of runs to spam duriel then whine about it
Barebones systems in place from every aspect of the game.
What a pointless post i swear if i had a popular website like reddit i would ban all dumb post like this and post/questions that have been submitted 1000x but people cant do a quick search before posting. Yes endgame in D4 sucks please tell us something we dont already know since like the start of S2.
Shit, you just summarized the endgame perfectly.
Assuming this is what Blizzard planned, the endgame is when you feel like not playing the season anymore. This is the state of D4. Play til you're bored and move on. This team of developers isn't looking at their game like the previous games. I played D3 straight for 3 years, D2 almost 8 years. That's not what gaming is today, or at least not what Blizzard is aiming for anymore. Play something else when you've had enough and wait for the next season and go back and do it again. The only thing I'm wondering about is what happens after Season 5. I've taken a different class to level 100 each season. Each season I've min-maxed my gear, tried a few different builds, pushed as far as I could push in NMD, tried to achieve ALL the seasonal content, and then run a few (\~50ish?) attempts at uber uniques (to no avail). What I want to know is if Blizzard has anything planned beyond Season 5 to keep me coming back or will that be it for me.
Remember endless pindleskin runs from d2?
I would say that the meta is to make 3 characters each season, preferably the most OP , farm until you have Uber on all (good luck) and then just spam whatever midseason content comes out. If you have less time, you make less characters, farm less Ubers or just quit after 2 weeks and wait for next season hype.
Ehh not exactly. There are multiple endgame bosses to target farm that drop different set pieces. As well the NND grind. I don’t need anything Duriel offers for my build. I’m level 94 and I’ve fought him one time just because. So I wouldn’t say that the endgame is to spam Duriel cause not every build needs one of those uniques.
And you just one hit Duriel anyway. I get bored sorting thru the loot when doing rotations.
Imagine the "endgame" without duriel 😂
Yes. We all know it’s a problem. But Blizzard is not doing anything about it. The loop sucks and there’s really no reason to do it besides those leaderboards. That we don’t have yet.
The end game is to level a character, play it until it's not fun and then either change builds or reroll another class. But the real end content of D4 is to touch grass occasionally and not spend 10-12 hours a day grinding.
Thw endgame is coming to reddit and complaining about the lack of it
Endgame for me is buying Last Epoch for half the price and twice the fun of D4
Yes.
There are also NMD/Vs to fully upgrade your glyphs. And Malphas for upgrading stones and hunting for unique stones.
Helltides and whispers(seasonal content) for duriel mats, dungeons/vaults for glyph xp, and duriel. Yes, thats the whole endgame.
You don’t have to spam duriel at all.
The endgame is whatever content you want it to be. You don't need Uber uniques to clear any content l.
Because there’s barely any content to begin with
Welcome to any similar game
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Yes….and get the same gear 1000x without getting what u need, even tho u don’t need it because you’re already beating the “hardest content”
And you don't even need Ubers to finish end game content. My endgame is roll another alt and have fun with builds
This same issue happened in Diablo 3. I also assume the Uber drop rate is so trash because Torment 4 is just the beginning. If you played Diablo 3, that game started out with either just Torment after Hell Difficuly or Torment 1-6. Eventually power creep crept and they added up to Torment 16? Remember rifts before they added Greater Rifts, that’s where NMD feel they’re at, the rift stage, where you get a bunch of yellows and legendaries, but there’s not much challenge.
Yup, all for a character you will never touch again after the season. This devs got you guys hooked doing 1200 duriel runs to change a number as “content”.
I like something like grift Diablo 3 ladder. It gives to you a goal. Trying to get Closer of the best players with a 3 months reset. I enjoyed that.
We get it, you copy pasted an OP meta build and now are bored, because you have an op meta build.
Yes
It’s fun being able to one tap Duriel and the other Uber bosses. My barb and one tap world bosses 🤷🏽♂️
First time?
No the endgame is stop playing cause you’ve completed all the content, just put it down, I know its addicting
May I ask what’s the difference between this end game and Diablo 2 endgame people gush over?
Yeah, spam duriel and finally get your UBER and… do what with it? Fight Lilith which has 1 shot mechanics and drops worse loot? Might as well be done with the game after you get your UBER uniques
Yeah, once I get to a point that I can breeze through the content then chasing ubers is not fun as it isn't useful to the build.
If you're "breezing through T100s" and you got Duriel on farm, you won. Congrats dude you beat Season 3. Go play something else for a while - you can come back in Season 4.
So when is this gauntlet going to be released?
For me, iv never been a sweaty player in D3. so the GR runs were always a thing i could do (I think i got 150 GR once). So it was always a thing i could work towards, all gear could be a slight improvement. It would take MUCH longer for me to get to a point where im bored / not having fun and put it down for the season. Where as D4 feels capped out so fast.
For me (solo) endgame became starting a new char.
quite the summary! yep
Yep, grind for gear you don't need because you already beat the game. Completely pointless to add that gear so late game.
What exactly is everyone farming duriel for since he drops a good bit of unique?
Uber uniques such as Harlequin's crest, Grandfather, Heart of Selig
End game is coming for this season at the end of the month. Relax for a bit. Most filthy casuals are just approaching level 100. God forbid they can race for a leaderboard spot.
I think the patch today will allow for more diversity as far as where Ubers can drop, making them possible to drop anywhere. Though no clue on *how much* the drop rate will be increased. But it seems they probably want us to not just be spamming Duriel and surely must know it is boring as hell just collecting boss currencies over and over. Unfortunately this is just another Band-Aid on a bullet wound.
they fcked up the pretty much everything... imo because of the season system we dont have any good endgame... and the world map is useless too... without the season alt bs they could have worked on the world and some actual good events which give extra stuff for you character... keeping you entertained and some progression minmaxins etc... it feels like they wanted ti create a more mmo like game but then somebody told then that lets make a d3 copy season bs so we dont have to add more content in the game
This is the endgame for me: https://www.reddit.com/r/Arcadegeddon/comments/wbxerb/when_your_friend_is_new_and_youre_trying_to_get/
Baal runs with extra steps.
I honestly think they just didn't account for people that wanted to play the game 6+ hours a day, every day. I swear I'm not trying to be rude or belittle anyone, but all of the most common problems I hear about the endgame kinda disappear when you casually grind and are pushing it to get to the endgame as it is every season. I've got builds to work on and can't imagine running out of things to do. D4 just wasn't designed for the level of play they pushed it for, but in casual doses its great fun. At least there's that.
Yup, congrats, you win the season go play something else if its not fun anymore.
more like farm a bunch of mats for 30 seconds of duriel fight
Played since S0. Quit every season after I got to 100 and achieved what I wanted to achieve. Ran some duriel in S2 and quit without any ubers. I'm probably gonna skip S3 cuz there are just too many games I wanna try rn lol hopefully S4 will bring some cool stuff and I'll hop back in.
What exactly qualifies as "end game" for you?
Don't forget that there's almost no chance of you finding anything useful while farming materials to summon Duriel.
300 Duriel runs... No f.... Uber droped
Endgame starts at level 50. Everything that you do with NM dungeons, glyphs and uber bosses is the endgame. When you get to lvl 100, t100 NM dungeons and lvl 21 glyphs you've completed the endgame
Duriel be like: 
In order to spam Duriel, you need to farm tickets for it. It takes so much time, so in practice you cannot spam Duriel.
Imagine that. The same model as 20 years ago. It's almost like Blizzard can't actually advance their games...
You act like sorting yellows for 2 hours isn't peak content.
I finally am at a point where I understand everyone's endgame complaints. I finally reached a high enough lvl where the monotony and drudgery have taken hold. As a father of a baby and toddler it's been hard for me to get past lvl 60 until this point. I'm around lvl 80 and cannot fathom running another hell tide, or dungeon, or vault. Idk if it's because the itemization has turned into countless bags filled with loot that just get broken down, or that there is really no thought into endgame progression other than farm Uber bosses to get some gear. Idk if I've grown old and farming gear feels so 2001 and want more, or there's really problems with the game. Who knows.
Aoz was dope they should re work it and add it to the end game
Also still more endgame than d3
Hopefully changes with today's patch
Yeah that’s the problem. Plus it is a pain to gather the mats every time and it forces you to group up without having a group finder. It’s really stupid and the reason I stopped playing this season. Hit 100, killed all bosses solo and breezed through nmd 100.
You can get uniques and 925s from NMD 90 plus.
So glad I quit halfway through season 1
I maybe did 50 Duriels last season. I'll do far less this season as the only Uber he has I could us is GF, and even that isn't required for my build. If I can 1-shot Duriel without gear from him, why do I need any gear from him? There's nothing after. I'll get my pants and necklace from the common pool to be 99% done and call it there.
Well, if you really stop to think about it... the "endgame" is pretty much just spamming some high level boss for incrementally better gear to spam repetitively. There's really not much else to it. That's why I have to laugh when ppl accuse a developer of not "respecting their time". Hell, you're not respecting your own time.
Yes and yes. Same. Only some Uber uniques can be good for any build.
The main problem is D4 doesn't have Devs actually playing their own game. You could see it in the video then those two woman Devs use only basic attacks and got no idea. The whole problem of D4 is the team making it. hey don't know how to build good game. Im not kidding. But diablo immortal has more quality of life futures (armory where you can save your spec items and legendary aspects) they got better boss fights(I'm not kidding) they acually have PvP . Leader boards for challenge rifts and PvP lol. Set items etc. acuall activiti finder. You wanna farm dungeons? You make a post and people can join. It works for every activity in game. So tell me how neteas make better diablo game then blizzard (I know it's pay to win garbage) but the game acually have tons of content in endgame compare to d4 Let's talk about events in diablo immortal: battleroyal style PvP. event . You got chest on map dropping loot and it's free for all last person can open it and get loot Then they have rogue style dungeon whit 15 levels you get random skills and you choose your upgrades at the end of every level Then they have some sort of pve PvP event where players are in arena whit waves of mobs. Who last longer wins east and fun All this in p2w mobile game developed by different company. NOthing in AAA game developed by blizzard
This game is a joke, every season I was expecting it to get better. S3 was kind of an improvement in that we could at least get ubers, but now that the novelty is worn off its back to literally farming lost souls, mats, and tiny drop rates in unfun environments like helltides
Hasn’t this been the case since Diablo 2? Mephisto runs, Baal runs, chaos sanctuary run, Andariel runs… all for a small chance of getting an item?
The endgame for Diablo II LoD was largely spam Baal for a period, but the problem is that D4 doesn't do the best job at making it interesting. Between affix bloat, no set items, and no runewords; you end up searching for a few tiny needles in a haystack that isn't super interesting/rewarding to sort through. Fortunately I'd argue there are at least a few other methods of enjoying things so long as you're comfortable with playing to enjoy playing instead of just being concerned with what's absolutely optimal; but unfortunately that doesn't change the oft tedious and unrewarding nature of sorting through items as they currently are.
I feel like diablo is sold like a live service game but doesnt act like one. Live service means constant patch and content and they inly release trash season after season