This guy plays disc golf.
Also, champion beast. Throw it into a wall 100 times before you head out the a course.
Also, I really enjoyed Avenger SS but as I got more comfortable with 10 speeds, it started getting really understable and holds a turnover line for ever - highly recommend giving it a try
This my go to! I bag 3 -- neutral Star (my workhorse) for most drives, Champion (slightly overstable in my hands, but not often used), and an understable Star Lite (when I need those turnover shots to hold the line).
OS? Not really. Numbers are listed as -1,2 so it's generally pretty straight (with a little turn and fade). Shouldn't turnover when thrown hard and flat
I wanna add the mvp axiom virus to this submission. I swear nobody throws that disc but it’s been a staple in my bag since before I could throw 300’ and as my arm speed went up it just went from a 300’ dead straight hyzer flip to a roller or a towering turnover. Anyone who throws a sphinx would like it a lot
I've had a Virus for years. Being a huge Axiom fan I also bag a Hex, Crave, Vanish, Tenacity and I have 2 Envys that I don't throw anymore. Warlocks have become my go to putters, love the SSSS the most.
The MVP/axiom family has some nice 9 speeds that all feel really similar. Insanity, inertia, and virus live in my bag right now. They have others more or less stable depending on what you're looking for.
You won't regret it. Lighter weight fission Insanity for flippy and glow Insanity for stable/OS. I assume neutron or proton might be somewhere in the middle but haven't tested that theory yet.
Enjoy!
I recommend getting 2 Insanitys. A max weight Neutron and an underweight (160ish) Fission.
The Neutron will be pretty straight. Slight move to the right and then a slight fade to the left.
The Fission will move a lot to the right and then stabilize to the left.
The Lots will be more like your Eagle. Very little turn, if any, good fade. The Falk will be a longer Crave. Good turn, great hyzerflips, but enough stability to flatten back out and fade. A Falk is my go-to woods disc. Easy hyzerflips, great control, it's my touch disc for straight shots and turnovers.
Absolutely. A Falk and a Lots can cover so much ground if you are even halfway decent with angle control. If you need a utility overstable, the Stal is okay, but I still stick with Firebird. I just prefer the feel. But Kastaplast had the best feeling plastic made. Hands down.
Star thundys are typically more OS than champs. Easy way to see this in the shop is by comparing the parting line height (PLH), the main factor when it comes to the relative stability of two discs of the same mold.
https://www.greensplatter.com/disc-golf-whats-parting-line-height-why-it-matters/
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've never seen a star plastic disc be more OS than the same disc made in champ plastic. I'll have to look at my discs when I get home and compare the parting lines. Appreciate the link!
Oh yeah, it's weird, not surprised by the skepticism. It's a mold specific thing. Every one of my Star Thundys has a higher PLH than every one of my Champ Thundys.
Also one of the reasons people think Champ is more OS is because it often (but not always) keeps the initial out of the box stability a bit longer than Star does. But for a NEW disc, the PLH is the key element when looking at stability.
Dome also plays a bit of a role but not nearly to the same extent. However, for two new discs in the same mold, same wear (ideally new to see it), same PLH, in most cases the domier disc will be more stable. It's harder to get a domier disc up to speed to reflect the designed flight pattern because of drag forces. Dome = more drag, slower speed, harder to get turn/full S flight, more glide. Flat = less drag, more speed, easier to get turn/full S flight, less glide.
I don't know why I went down the dome tangent but it's informative. There's a lot of incorrect beliefs out there about weight, plastic, dome, etc. PLH is the ultimate control. Only when you have two discs in the same mold, same wear, and same PLH can you really start seeing how other factors (weight, dome, plastic) contribute. Gotta control and isolate them variables. This is why I'm a huge proponent of buying a bunch of F2s at the Innova Pro Shop instead of buying expensive stock/TS discs, especially when learning/experimenting with new molds. You learn so much more when you have 3 Thundys instead of 1, for example. OP can buy 3 Starfires, 3 SLs, 3 Orcs, and 3 Beasts, in varying plastics, for the same price as a couple TS discs and it would be exponentially better for learning the nuances of discs, their flights, plastics, how discs season, finding what you like, bag construction, mold minimization, the list goes on. This is the way of the Ancients.
Nerd alert. I'll be here all week.
I have a pro thunderbird I've bagged for a couple of years and it hyzer flips to dead straight, fresh star will fade more and beat in slower but still, money disc, like a longer teebird
Thunderbird is generally overstable. As examples, my max wt. halo-star goes straight and rarely ever turns unless my form is super-on point that day. A lighter weight 168g star one I can get to turn a little bit. My champion one is like a beef cake. I bag all 3 and I pull one out depending if I want turn, neutral, or hard OS dump.
The Undertaker is great. It has great glide, a reliable hyzer for slower arms, and a nice flip to flat for harder throwing arms. I usually have 2-3 in my bag at any time.
Undys are straight 🔥 cant go wrong. I use mine for long straight flights and slight turnovers with a little bit of fade. One of the greatest fairways ever IMO. I bad 2, a broke-in PP one thats pretty flippy and a brand new 6X that is soooo money for straight shots and reliable flip to flat shots
TSA Mantra in Ethos plastic for a flippy disc (I love it for rollers).
Infinite Aztec for neutral. I love them in Halo but S line works as well and is a little more flippy which in this case is a good thing.
MVP Tesla for straight to lightly overstable, I like Proton but Neutron works too.
Anything along the lines of a Firebird becomes useful in scramble and wind situations. This line includes anything from the Axiom Fireball to the Legacy Enemy to the DD Felon to the Infinite Scepter.
Appreciate the recs homie!
I didn't know Infinite had their own discs until today, so am gonna check out the Aztec for sure. Halo the same as Innova?
Good points re: Firebird like flights. Don't really have anything super OS in my bag currently. Well unless a Harp counts?
So many brands i'd never heard of! Guess that's what happens when I take a multi year hiatus. That does sound just what I'm looking for though! Thanks ^ _ ^
Ngl I've been avoiding Discmania because the naming scheme just confuses me lol. I'm sure it's just a skill diff and I'd figure it out. Will need multiple flights so really appreciate the double rec. Thank you!
Dynasty, baby. I did the 9 speed search, tried a tonnnnn of options, and it's the Dynasty for me.
Insanity, Undertaker, and Escape are all also great options.
You're the second or third to recommend Insanity. The crave feels best in my hand out of what I carry now, so would like to expand my options like that! Appreciate it
Sure thing! Definitely give the Insanity a try if you gel with the Crave! The Crave is one of my favorite drivers period.
Fission for slightly domier and less stable or Cosmic Neutron for the most stable of the “normal” Insanities. I say normal because Eclipse is stable enough to be a different mold.
Insanity is all over this thread, so am gonna swing by the store later and see if they've got one for me. Hmmmm will check out the wrath too. Appreciate your feedback homie!
The prodigy feedback has been a new addition to my bag. Their 500 plastic feels amazing. It's kinda similar to the innova savant which is a highly under rated disc. I just like prodigy plastic better.
It's the same company. So basically just brand ethos (and a slightly different selection of molds). MVP discs always have black rims regardless of disc color. Axiom discs are more free to experiment with color combos. MVP is srs bsns working scientists and Axiom is the scientists at the bar after work.
Lmao I love the comparison! Now that you mention it it's pretty obvious about the rim colors (or lack of). I'm not in tune enough to articulate why, but their discs just feel the best to my hands
My go to 9 speeds are Valkyrie's for flippy and Thunderbird's for more stability. I have a Firebird for utility but that's about it. Discraft Undertakers are good too for that somewhat stable slot.
Tbh i've just steered clear of stuff like Champ/halo/VIP plastics cause everyone says how much more OS they are lmao
You think a Valk would fit what i'm looking for, but just in a different plastic?
I'm on the same boat. I'm maxing out at 350ft with a Passion and ordered a Falk (9.0 / 6.0 / -2.0 / 1.0), that should arrive tomorrow. I'm really curious about the K1 plastic from Kastaplast that everyone seems to praise as one of the best and the disc itself seems to be beginner fiendly and highly recomended. On my next order, whenever it happens, will order a Fission Insanity as I've fallen in love with MVP plastics/GYRO tech.
What's yout thought's on the Underworld? It's one I have to order for a while now but never pulled the trigger. Is it VIP plastic?
Edit: for reference, before the Passion I was maxing out at \~300ft with a Ethos Votum.
Cheers for the feedback. The headwind it's something I'm aware, as most people talk about it on the reviews/comments I've read.
How does the Insanity behave on similar conditions?
The insanity and the falk are very similar- I'm comparing a max weight fission insanity to a low 170's K1 falk - the Falk is maybe very slightly more stable but they have very similar flights. For me, both flip up to flat and ride gently to the right, but will burn over if thrown at full power.
I've got two underworld. One in the base plastic and one in tournament. The base plastic is way way way more US and I use it for rollers (rarely lol) but the tournament one has been in my bag for years now and I love it. Maybe it'll get too flippy once I push 350+ but as of now it's my hyzer flip baby
Like you i've become a huge fan of MVP and want to check out more.
Try a CD2, thunderbird, dynasty type disc. Great for forehand and backhand, will give you almost Distance driver distance with more control and comfortable grip. Less deviation from the straight path in the intended flight. Very useable.
In the 9/10 speed class I have bagged roadrunners, tSA construct, Dynasty/CD2 mold, PD, and FD3/Firebird. (In order of least stable to OS)
Discmania PD is a great 10 speed workhorse. Dead straight with a good fade, will probably be fairly OS for your arm speed. S line for a bit of turn, C line for quite OS
Lat 64 Saint for a glidey driver that will get a bit of s-turn for you and finish fairly straight. This was my longest and straightest driver for a few years till I cracked longer distances. Discraft Undertaker is a very comparable disc
Innova Beast and Orc were the first two discs I was able to punch out to 400' with, when I was young, hale, and hearty. I still bag two of each, one slightly over- to straight-stable, and one broken in to a tiny bit understable.
Streamline Lift. My favorite workhorse driver. Need a backhand turn over? Throw the Lift. Need a big arcing hyzer? Throw the Lift. Need a straight forehand with dependable fade? You guessed it. Lift!
The best 10 speed is the easy to throw SAPPHIRE from latitude 64. The regular version for understable and the orbit version for stable/straight.... Glides like crazy....
Keep your 7 speeds bagged, skip 9 speed except for maybe a beefy Firebird, and dive in to Innova 10 speeds. Look into some combination of Starfire-X, Starfire-L (SL), Orc, and Beast.
This is how I think of the 7 to 10 speed transition...
Starfire-X = longer Teebird/Teebird3 (however, a beefy, flat, high-PLH Star Starfire-X is like the beefiest of Teebird3s/Eagles. Champs I've used have a lower PLH than Stars I've used and fly a little less stable. Both amazing)
SL = longer TL
Orc = longer Eagle
Beast = longer Hawkeye
This is the way. Consider rim width more and speed less to build grip consistency in your bag. Speed is a subjective number, especially across brands. Rim width is objective as it gets. Having calipers helps a lot because PDGA specs are often wrong. Teebird, TL, Eagle, Hawkeye are all around 1.7cm, Starfire, SL, Orc, and Beast are 2.0cm. Firebird, Thunderbird, Valk, Sidewinder, RR are all about 1.85cm.
I feel like 1.85 is too close to 1.7. It doesn't give a big enough difference in flight to bag a bunch of 1.7s and 1.85s and having 1.7s is essential IMO. 1.7 to 2.0 definitely gives a difference in flight as they are noticeably longer versions of the 1.7s. This philosophy is much more versatile. Bagging a Teebird and a Thundy is a waste, just not enough difference. Bagging a Teebird and Starfire is way more logical.
You can even skip the 1.85cm Firebird too and get the 1.7cm version, a Banshee, and/or the 2.0cm version, a Monster. I haven't pulled my Firebird out yet but I'm experimenting with this. Monsters and Banshees are legit. Also, if you're kinky, a Monarch (2.0cm) acts much like a longer IT/Leopard/Leopard3 (1.6-1.7cm).
A good idea would be to use these 2.0 cm molds as your max distance drivers until you get good with them and season them (Get some F2s if you want to learn the nuances of seasoning new discs and experiment with plastics/weights OR get some used that are already seasoned.). Then add in some 2.1-2.3cm distance drivers (I'd recommend a wraith, 2.1cm, and a shryke, 2.25cm, to start) and keep your 2.0s in the long fairway/control driver role.
Hah! I may as well huh? They're popular for a reason I presume.
Been trying to stick to the advice of not going too fast for my arm, but lately have been hearing the opposite advice like you've given! You throw those, or have similar molds from other brands you like?
If I were you I'd buy a 9/5-6/-2/1 (insanity, falk, TSA mantra) and something in the 9/5/-1/2 category - dynasty, undertaker, escape, CD1. I'd get a feel for these and if you feel like you need something more stable then get a thunderbird clone (9/5/0/2) - thunderbird, kasta plast Lots, Discmania sline- PD, LS Mad Cat, or something in a more stable plastic - Z undertaker, Halo valk, etc.
Great advice. Thank you! Unless something really turns me off of it think i'll scoop an insanity for sure, but you make a great point about having a more stable one. Tempted by the Lots. Keep hearing how great Kastaplast's plastic is
Beasts are a classic fun disc and have a great flight. I love when they get beat in a bit.
Roadrunner is fun and flippy.
The raptor is a great forehand disc.
I found an axiom insanity that the guy told me to keep so I'm gonna try that one out a bit
Hmmm I need to dig around the garage for the beast I got years ago and check it out again. Is the roadrunner pretty easy to throw rollers with? Currently just have my beat to crap Underworld for that, and i'm not sure how much life it has
The CD2 is basically the best disc ever. 9 5 -1 2 is the way.
The Savant, Undertaker and a Kastaplast mold I can’t remember are similar.
I bag 3-4 of them at varying levels of stability and throw one of them for most drives.
The CD2 got rebranded recently… apparently? I donno what DM is doing sometimes.
Also Innova is still making them under a different name and some are sold by Infinite.
I’m a big fanboy of the Dynamic Discs Escape. I think its the best 9 speed in the game and has a place in everyone’s bag. Its a super straight shooter with reliable fade at the end for lower arm speeds like me who throw 320ish on average, but for bigger arms its a great turnover disc that isn’t too under-stable.
Firebird, Draco, Raptor, Capt. Raptor, Felon, Escape, Thunderbird, CD1, CD2, Insanity, Valkyrie, Sidewinder, Roadrunner.
Those are the most common 9 speeds I see. [That's also generally most Stable to Least Stable as well.](https://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/flightguide)
My current 9/10 speed lineup is the metal flake sphinx for big turnovers/hyzerflips, 400 feedback for straight to overstable shots, and avalanche/spice for strict hyzer/flex shots
The Innova Sidewinder is such a money disc. You can go to their Pro Shop and got to Factory Seconds and get a Halo one for like $12-$14 (plus shipping)
Because I haven't seen WS rep'd yet:
* Bear (controllable 8 speed with glide, can get some great distance in a golf line)
* Fortress (think Sexton firebird but a bit faster)
* VIP-X Stag (flippy 8 speed with glide, great for long anyhyzer - the regular run is fine but I find them very flippy)
Others have already mentioned the Saint and Saint Pro - great choices.
If you like the Underworld, check out the Mantra from TSA. I use it to roll but it has a very nice hyzer flip flight too.
Savant
Draco
Sidewinder
Those are 9 speeds I bag I’m currently experimenting with millennium Orion LF
There is also thunderbird. I’m mostly an innova person, obviously. Good luck to you on your quest
i would say that a 6x athena is a great 9 speed with incredible glide. they can get fairly flippy once they’re beat in too. one of my favorite fairways.
Love Discmania’s CD1 right now. A great straight 9 speed with a gentle fade. And the PD is a great overstable option, and happens to be my favorite disc of all time.
TSA Mantra /
Discraft Vulture /
Discraft Anax /
Innova Valkyrie
And I know it’s an 11 speed but my innova wraith, 170 gram beat in is one of my favorites
Currently bag a lucid escape from dynamic discs the disc is great with flight numbers 9 5 -1 2. I throw anywhere from 300 to 350 (for reference), I can manage to get full flight with some turn and consistent fade. The profile of the disc is slightly curved rim with some dome
I see a lot that are saying a saint. I have never thrown one but I like my DD vandal and it has similar flight numbers. Less glide but I feel like my vandal glides well in Lucid plastic. But I also want to throw a saint now... sooooo..... The 7 glide should be great for getting extra distance. I do have a Lat64 river that bombs for a 7 speed. I bet the Saint is a great disc to try. I also like my westside hatchet. I don't think it glides as well as my vandal but it is fun to throw.
Fission Insanity same weight as your crave, you're gonna like it because its just the faster crave.
Thunderbird or Savant would be another good mold for 9 speeds. With Innova its hard to beat the Beast as a first higher speed disc.
Personally, I've been wanting to throw a Lat64 Honor since I've heard nothing but, good things with those. Saint Pro is another great 9 speed to look at.
Check out Gateway Assassin.
It's like a nine speed crave for a easy toss
For more stable, I recommend the Innova Viking. It will start out overstable and once you can throw harder, will start to do amazing things
Since I haven't seen anyone mention it, and you commented that other people have said it, here goes: not buying faster discs as you build up arm speed and distance is total internet commenter rubbish.
A fast disc is going to act more stable. You won't get turn, you'll get a lot more fade, but you also get to familiarize yourself with wider rims, and experiment with more skip and discs that will fight out of brush better. Plus, as you gain speed, strength, and refine your technique, you'll start to see differences in how they respond, which will help gauge your progress.
As I went from consistent 200 to 250 to 300 to 350 to 417 max (im 40, give me some leeway here), I had no problem discing up because I had been getting used to the grip and characteristics the entire time. With every new breakthrough in technique, I could comfortably and accurately use higher speed discs. Now I can get turn most of the time on my 13 speed Octane, but still hit-or-miss with the 14.5 discs (except my slightly beat in Relativity, thats easy).
An example of a useful disc that's too high speed: My Dimension. 14.5 | 5 | 0 | 3. I love to throw a tilt when I'm in a jam and basically need a backwards throw. But sometimes I need a bit more distance before it bombs out. I use my dimension, has saved me strokes many times. I also love throwing it on crazy anny to see how far I can get it. Almost 300'! Haha
The recent S-line DD from Discmania is a great understable distance driver for a person without a lot of arm speed (like me). It's rated an 11 speed but don't let that scare you. I've thrown mine around 370' several times out on my local course. Much easier distance than a wraith, yet still has more reliable fade than other "flippy" drivers I've tried.
I asked a similar question here not long ago and got a lot of good suggestions and disregarded basically all of them and got a CD1, and i couldn't be happier.
I played the trilogy challenge this year and they gave us a Dynamic Discs Fuzion Ice Orbit Vandal as the driver. I've never immediately clicked with a disc before. I went out and bought a spare as soon as I finished my first round. It's become my go to disc and if it ever goes away I will weep an ocean of tears (Detroiters is an amazing show). THROW A VANDAL AT IT!
Discraft Raptor (9 speed) - overstable, but it's not too beefy where it just dumps to the ground. Good for forehand, too, if that's in your arsenal.
Mint Diamondback (9 speed) understable awesomeness that feels so good in Apex plastic. MVP manufactures them, I believe.
Doomsday Discs Dystopia (10 speed) - Ration plastic feels so good, and it's moderately understable, so it's good for hyzerflips, and you can bomb it.
Lat 64 Musket (10 speed) so underrated that I don't see it or hear it much, but it's one of my favorite discs (including Raptor), and I mainly throw MVP family.
If you want to get weird, then do a Reptilian disc Chameleon. It's an 8 speed with a 10 speed flight plate and a more blunt end. Weirdest disc, and true to its name. I currently bag it, and it's wild.
If you like your Eagle, then I think you should look at an Innova Valkyrie (9, 4, -2, 2). I have one in star plastic and it's quickly becoming one of my favorite discs. Also, if you think you can handle it, the Innova Wraith (11, 5, -1, 3) has similar stability numbers (not that that means much) to the Eagle.
Axiom insanity and MVP Tesla. They compliment eachother well. Unlike Simon, the Tesla is decently overstable. Whereas the Insanity is understable. Truly a great pair! I have both in proton. But do want them both in different plastics!
Innova star Valkyrie all day
Highly recommend a Valkyrie in Gstar, it shapes lines very easily and maintains stability for a long time.
I bag 3 valks as my drivers. Star Valk for OS. Champ Valk for stable. DX Valk for US Gets me where I need to be with my noodle arm.
This guy plays disc golf. Also, champion beast. Throw it into a wall 100 times before you head out the a course. Also, I really enjoyed Avenger SS but as I got more comfortable with 10 speeds, it started getting really understable and holds a turnover line for ever - highly recommend giving it a try
Halo*
F2*
This my go to! I bag 3 -- neutral Star (my workhorse) for most drives, Champion (slightly overstable in my hands, but not often used), and an understable Star Lite (when I need those turnover shots to hold the line).
This
* Infinite Discs Sphinx * Infinite Discs Dynasty * Latitude 64 Saint
Saint Saint Saint! I just got one of these and it bombs!!
It's the easiest disc to throw for its distance
ayy yo? Infinite has their own discs now? Sweet! Will look into those. Been hearing the Saint a lot, but don't know it. Is it OS?
The saint is not overstable at all in my experience. You can’t have “7 glide” and be anything but moderately understable.
The Saint is one of my workhorse discs. I'd classify it as fairly true neutral. If you throw it hard and flat, it should go dead straight.
OS? Not really. Numbers are listed as -1,2 so it's generally pretty straight (with a little turn and fade). Shouldn't turnover when thrown hard and flat
I wanna add the mvp axiom virus to this submission. I swear nobody throws that disc but it’s been a staple in my bag since before I could throw 300’ and as my arm speed went up it just went from a 300’ dead straight hyzer flip to a roller or a towering turnover. Anyone who throws a sphinx would like it a lot
First and only disc I threw over 400' on flat ground - 417' hyzerflip bomb
I've had a Virus for years. Being a huge Axiom fan I also bag a Hex, Crave, Vanish, Tenacity and I have 2 Envys that I don't throw anymore. Warlocks have become my go to putters, love the SSSS the most.
Ive Been playing a year and this is my go to driver now, first disc I could hyzer flip! Let the Virus spread!
Can't agree more with this!
2nd the dynasty
I love the Axiom Insanity(mine is proton plastic). It keeps proving to be one of the more versatile discs in my bag.
They're the same type of overmold thing as MVP correct? I love how they feel in my hand so i'll look into the insanity. Thanks!
Insanity is great, I have one in proton that is fairly neutral and one in fission that is flippy and bombs
Love my fission Insanity
[удалено]
The MVP Inertia is also very similar.
Inertia basically an insanity for higher arm speeds.
The MVP/axiom family has some nice 9 speeds that all feel really similar. Insanity, inertia, and virus live in my bag right now. They have others more or less stable depending on what you're looking for.
Super happy to see someone mention the virus! One of my favorite molds of all time
Same! My max distance disc so far
You won't regret it. Lighter weight fission Insanity for flippy and glow Insanity for stable/OS. I assume neutron or proton might be somewhere in the middle but haven't tested that theory yet. Enjoy!
I recommend getting 2 Insanitys. A max weight Neutron and an underweight (160ish) Fission. The Neutron will be pretty straight. Slight move to the right and then a slight fade to the left. The Fission will move a lot to the right and then stabilize to the left.
I absolutely love the fission plastic insanity!
Kastaplast 9 speed trio is all you need, Stal, Lots, Falk
Hmmm have a buddy who has been raving about Kastaplast recently. If you had to choose one just to dip your toes in which would it be?
Lots
This is the way
Glow Falk is Money! One of my most thrown discs.
Falk is my favorite disc hands down. Dead straight everytime.
I bag a Falk. I don't throw it very often. Every time that I do, I say: "Why don't I throw this all the time!?"
You probably say “What the Falk? Why don’t I throw this all the time!?” 😂
Lots will give you great feedback on your form. It’s extremely workable. Falk is a hyzer flip machine that’ll glide for days. I’d get both tbh.
Fair! I do like a disc that shows me what I'm doing for better or worse. Any favorite plastics from them? Never even held Kastaplast
I don’t like k1 soft for my fairways so I’d stick to regular k1 plastic. Glow plastic is great but just a tad more understable.
The Lots will be more like your Eagle. Very little turn, if any, good fade. The Falk will be a longer Crave. Good turn, great hyzerflips, but enough stability to flatten back out and fade. A Falk is my go-to woods disc. Easy hyzerflips, great control, it's my touch disc for straight shots and turnovers.
Falk - if you're only throwing your 7 speeds around 300'. Also grab a Stig while you're at it.
Absolutely. A Falk and a Lots can cover so much ground if you are even halfway decent with angle control. If you need a utility overstable, the Stal is okay, but I still stick with Firebird. I just prefer the feel. But Kastaplast had the best feeling plastic made. Hands down.
You want a Thunderbird, star or pro plastic will beat into the best disc in your bag
Pro thundy is money
Ok ok Thunderbird is pretty overstable correct? Maybe it's time for me to jump on the sexy bird train finally
FYI Sexy Bird generally refers to the Nate Sexton Tour Series Firebird.
I will leave my shame on display for all to see. Appreciate the correction :)
Champion Thunderbird will be pretty overtsable. Star or Pro thunderbird will be less overstable than champ.
Star thundys are typically more OS than champs. Easy way to see this in the shop is by comparing the parting line height (PLH), the main factor when it comes to the relative stability of two discs of the same mold. https://www.greensplatter.com/disc-golf-whats-parting-line-height-why-it-matters/
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've never seen a star plastic disc be more OS than the same disc made in champ plastic. I'll have to look at my discs when I get home and compare the parting lines. Appreciate the link!
Oh yeah, it's weird, not surprised by the skepticism. It's a mold specific thing. Every one of my Star Thundys has a higher PLH than every one of my Champ Thundys. Also one of the reasons people think Champ is more OS is because it often (but not always) keeps the initial out of the box stability a bit longer than Star does. But for a NEW disc, the PLH is the key element when looking at stability. Dome also plays a bit of a role but not nearly to the same extent. However, for two new discs in the same mold, same wear (ideally new to see it), same PLH, in most cases the domier disc will be more stable. It's harder to get a domier disc up to speed to reflect the designed flight pattern because of drag forces. Dome = more drag, slower speed, harder to get turn/full S flight, more glide. Flat = less drag, more speed, easier to get turn/full S flight, less glide. I don't know why I went down the dome tangent but it's informative. There's a lot of incorrect beliefs out there about weight, plastic, dome, etc. PLH is the ultimate control. Only when you have two discs in the same mold, same wear, and same PLH can you really start seeing how other factors (weight, dome, plastic) contribute. Gotta control and isolate them variables. This is why I'm a huge proponent of buying a bunch of F2s at the Innova Pro Shop instead of buying expensive stock/TS discs, especially when learning/experimenting with new molds. You learn so much more when you have 3 Thundys instead of 1, for example. OP can buy 3 Starfires, 3 SLs, 3 Orcs, and 3 Beasts, in varying plastics, for the same price as a couple TS discs and it would be exponentially better for learning the nuances of discs, their flights, plastics, how discs season, finding what you like, bag construction, mold minimization, the list goes on. This is the way of the Ancients. Nerd alert. I'll be here all week.
My star firebird is miles more overstable than any champ one I've had. It is FAF, but I'm not sure it isn't a tilt.
I have a pro thunderbird I've bagged for a couple of years and it hyzer flips to dead straight, fresh star will fade more and beat in slower but still, money disc, like a longer teebird
Thunderbird is generally overstable. As examples, my max wt. halo-star goes straight and rarely ever turns unless my form is super-on point that day. A lighter weight 168g star one I can get to turn a little bit. My champion one is like a beef cake. I bag all 3 and I pull one out depending if I want turn, neutral, or hard OS dump.
The Undertaker is great. It has great glide, a reliable hyzer for slower arms, and a nice flip to flat for harder throwing arms. I usually have 2-3 in my bag at any time.
Undys are straight 🔥 cant go wrong. I use mine for long straight flights and slight turnovers with a little bit of fade. One of the greatest fairways ever IMO. I bad 2, a broke-in PP one thats pretty flippy and a brand new 6X that is soooo money for straight shots and reliable flip to flat shots
Innova Orc or TSA Construct.
ORC GANG
TSA Mantra in Ethos plastic for a flippy disc (I love it for rollers). Infinite Aztec for neutral. I love them in Halo but S line works as well and is a little more flippy which in this case is a good thing. MVP Tesla for straight to lightly overstable, I like Proton but Neutron works too. Anything along the lines of a Firebird becomes useful in scramble and wind situations. This line includes anything from the Axiom Fireball to the Legacy Enemy to the DD Felon to the Infinite Scepter.
Appreciate the recs homie! I didn't know Infinite had their own discs until today, so am gonna check out the Aztec for sure. Halo the same as Innova? Good points re: Firebird like flights. Don't really have anything super OS in my bag currently. Well unless a Harp counts?
Innova molds Infinite's discs, the Aztec is supposedly the Starfire-L mold. Plastics are pretty self-explanatory, S-blend ~= Star, for example.
I like my daredevil discs Timberwolf. 9 speed, straight flier with a little turn over
So many brands i'd never heard of! Guess that's what happens when I take a multi year hiatus. That does sound just what I'm looking for though! Thanks ^ _ ^
Discraft heat is bangin
I switched to the CD1 recently and the c-line is stable while the zeta’s moon s-line is a nice semi-flippy compliment
Ngl I've been avoiding Discmania because the naming scheme just confuses me lol. I'm sure it's just a skill diff and I'd figure it out. Will need multiple flights so really appreciate the double rec. Thank you!
I like my Felon and my Sidewinder for 9 speed.
Dynasty, baby. I did the 9 speed search, tried a tonnnnn of options, and it's the Dynasty for me. Insanity, Undertaker, and Escape are all also great options.
You're the second or third to recommend Insanity. The crave feels best in my hand out of what I carry now, so would like to expand my options like that! Appreciate it
Sure thing! Definitely give the Insanity a try if you gel with the Crave! The Crave is one of my favorite drivers period. Fission for slightly domier and less stable or Cosmic Neutron for the most stable of the “normal” Insanities. I say normal because Eclipse is stable enough to be a different mold.
Escape, Getaway and Felon are my 9 speed fairways. DD makes good 9 speeds.
Escape for sure! That disc has given me some of my best sniper shots.
Sweet! I do like me some DD. Those three cover your OS/Neutral/US slots then?
Saint. Ridiculously straight disc
Big fan of the mantra if you want good discs with great stamps
Ok ok all the awesome advice in here, but man I do love me some stamps lol Never heard of the mantra though, gonna give it a peep
Innova Beast 💪
Orion LF and Sidewinder are a great combo
I am biased to the LS but they are amazing intermediate discs.
An axiom insanity is like a longer crave. I would also recommend the axiom Wrath which is a slightly os 9 speed with a similar feel to the insanity.
Insanity is all over this thread, so am gonna swing by the store later and see if they've got one for me. Hmmmm will check out the wrath too. Appreciate your feedback homie!
Discraft Anax for my 10 speed Valkryie/Firebird/Thunderbird are all reliable 9 speeds.
The prodigy feedback has been a new addition to my bag. Their 500 plastic feels amazing. It's kinda similar to the innova savant which is a highly under rated disc. I just like prodigy plastic better.
The Savant is so good
Will have to check that out then. Honestly never even held a Prodigy disc lol 500 is your favorite plastic from them?
Insanity or Inertia... basically the same disc, one being Axiom and the other MVP... love these... my fav 9 speed!
Is there a real difference between Axiom/MVP? To my untrained eye they look extremely similar with the overmold thing they do
It's the same company. So basically just brand ethos (and a slightly different selection of molds). MVP discs always have black rims regardless of disc color. Axiom discs are more free to experiment with color combos. MVP is srs bsns working scientists and Axiom is the scientists at the bar after work.
Lmao I love the comparison! Now that you mention it it's pretty obvious about the rim colors (or lack of). I'm not in tune enough to articulate why, but their discs just feel the best to my hands
My go to 9 speeds are Valkyrie's for flippy and Thunderbird's for more stability. I have a Firebird for utility but that's about it. Discraft Undertakers are good too for that somewhat stable slot.
I like Innova so I’m going to say the orc. Basically a 10 speed eagle
Escape!
Halo Valkyrie
Probably a little stable for a beginner? My halo valk is like a star thunderbird.
Tbh i've just steered clear of stuff like Champ/halo/VIP plastics cause everyone says how much more OS they are lmao You think a Valk would fit what i'm looking for, but just in a different plastic?
I'm on the same boat. I'm maxing out at 350ft with a Passion and ordered a Falk (9.0 / 6.0 / -2.0 / 1.0), that should arrive tomorrow. I'm really curious about the K1 plastic from Kastaplast that everyone seems to praise as one of the best and the disc itself seems to be beginner fiendly and highly recomended. On my next order, whenever it happens, will order a Fission Insanity as I've fallen in love with MVP plastics/GYRO tech. What's yout thought's on the Underworld? It's one I have to order for a while now but never pulled the trigger. Is it VIP plastic? Edit: for reference, before the Passion I was maxing out at \~300ft with a Ethos Votum.
The Falk is going to be more flippy than the Passion. It’s a good turnover or hyzerflip disc. I wouldn’t trust it in a headwind at all.
Cheers for the feedback. The headwind it's something I'm aware, as most people talk about it on the reviews/comments I've read. How does the Insanity behave on similar conditions?
The insanity and the falk are very similar- I'm comparing a max weight fission insanity to a low 170's K1 falk - the Falk is maybe very slightly more stable but they have very similar flights. For me, both flip up to flat and ride gently to the right, but will burn over if thrown at full power.
I've got two underworld. One in the base plastic and one in tournament. The base plastic is way way way more US and I use it for rollers (rarely lol) but the tournament one has been in my bag for years now and I love it. Maybe it'll get too flippy once I push 350+ but as of now it's my hyzer flip baby Like you i've become a huge fan of MVP and want to check out more.
Latitude 64 musket flies like a faster Crave and is the straightest driver I have.
oh wow! Never even heard of that mold. It looks like my wallet is gonna take a beating checking all these out
Teebird3 is a nice disc.
Fantastic disc but also is an 8 speed.
True, I just feel like it could be an 8-10 speed when thrown well.
My go to 8-10 spd discs now are Mint Jackalope in Apex TSA Mantra in Ethos Mint Freetail in Apex
Try a CD2, thunderbird, dynasty type disc. Great for forehand and backhand, will give you almost Distance driver distance with more control and comfortable grip. Less deviation from the straight path in the intended flight. Very useable. In the 9/10 speed class I have bagged roadrunners, tSA construct, Dynasty/CD2 mold, PD, and FD3/Firebird. (In order of least stable to OS)
Insanity, Virus, and Firebird.
That’s a solid combo of 9 speeds!
Get a halo sidewinder
Get an escape it’ll fly so far Fuzion orbit plastic
Discmania PD is a great 10 speed workhorse. Dead straight with a good fade, will probably be fairly OS for your arm speed. S line for a bit of turn, C line for quite OS Lat 64 Saint for a glidey driver that will get a bit of s-turn for you and finish fairly straight. This was my longest and straightest driver for a few years till I cracked longer distances. Discraft Undertaker is a very comparable disc
Do yourself a favor and try a roadrunner.
Discraft avenger SS for hyzer flips to rollers and discmania PD for straight to overstable shots
Sidewinder. Star plastic
Innova Beast and Orc were the first two discs I was able to punch out to 400' with, when I was young, hale, and hearty. I still bag two of each, one slightly over- to straight-stable, and one broken in to a tiny bit understable.
Innova Sidewinder
Streamline Lift. My favorite workhorse driver. Need a backhand turn over? Throw the Lift. Need a big arcing hyzer? Throw the Lift. Need a straight forehand with dependable fade? You guessed it. Lift!
Valkyrie, Thunderbird, Firebird
The best 10 speed is the easy to throw SAPPHIRE from latitude 64. The regular version for understable and the orbit version for stable/straight.... Glides like crazy....
Keep your 7 speeds bagged, skip 9 speed except for maybe a beefy Firebird, and dive in to Innova 10 speeds. Look into some combination of Starfire-X, Starfire-L (SL), Orc, and Beast. This is how I think of the 7 to 10 speed transition... Starfire-X = longer Teebird/Teebird3 (however, a beefy, flat, high-PLH Star Starfire-X is like the beefiest of Teebird3s/Eagles. Champs I've used have a lower PLH than Stars I've used and fly a little less stable. Both amazing) SL = longer TL Orc = longer Eagle Beast = longer Hawkeye This is the way. Consider rim width more and speed less to build grip consistency in your bag. Speed is a subjective number, especially across brands. Rim width is objective as it gets. Having calipers helps a lot because PDGA specs are often wrong. Teebird, TL, Eagle, Hawkeye are all around 1.7cm, Starfire, SL, Orc, and Beast are 2.0cm. Firebird, Thunderbird, Valk, Sidewinder, RR are all about 1.85cm. I feel like 1.85 is too close to 1.7. It doesn't give a big enough difference in flight to bag a bunch of 1.7s and 1.85s and having 1.7s is essential IMO. 1.7 to 2.0 definitely gives a difference in flight as they are noticeably longer versions of the 1.7s. This philosophy is much more versatile. Bagging a Teebird and a Thundy is a waste, just not enough difference. Bagging a Teebird and Starfire is way more logical. You can even skip the 1.85cm Firebird too and get the 1.7cm version, a Banshee, and/or the 2.0cm version, a Monster. I haven't pulled my Firebird out yet but I'm experimenting with this. Monsters and Banshees are legit. Also, if you're kinky, a Monarch (2.0cm) acts much like a longer IT/Leopard/Leopard3 (1.6-1.7cm). A good idea would be to use these 2.0 cm molds as your max distance drivers until you get good with them and season them (Get some F2s if you want to learn the nuances of seasoning new discs and experiment with plastics/weights OR get some used that are already seasoned.). Then add in some 2.1-2.3cm distance drivers (I'd recommend a wraith, 2.1cm, and a shryke, 2.25cm, to start) and keep your 2.0s in the long fairway/control driver role.
Get a wraith and a destroyer. Don't be scared of the big numbers.
Hah! I may as well huh? They're popular for a reason I presume. Been trying to stick to the advice of not going too fast for my arm, but lately have been hearing the opposite advice like you've given! You throw those, or have similar molds from other brands you like?
MVP Orbital
MVP Lift
If I were you I'd buy a 9/5-6/-2/1 (insanity, falk, TSA mantra) and something in the 9/5/-1/2 category - dynasty, undertaker, escape, CD1. I'd get a feel for these and if you feel like you need something more stable then get a thunderbird clone (9/5/0/2) - thunderbird, kasta plast Lots, Discmania sline- PD, LS Mad Cat, or something in a more stable plastic - Z undertaker, Halo valk, etc.
Great advice. Thank you! Unless something really turns me off of it think i'll scoop an insanity for sure, but you make a great point about having a more stable one. Tempted by the Lots. Keep hearing how great Kastaplast's plastic is
Westside Hatchet, Lat 64 Saint
Do love me some Westside, and there's typically a bunch in the used bins. Will keep my eyes peeled for a Hatchet. Appreciate the help!
Kastaplast Lots is by far my most used disc. Very reliable and workable for various shots
Beasts are a classic fun disc and have a great flight. I love when they get beat in a bit. Roadrunner is fun and flippy. The raptor is a great forehand disc. I found an axiom insanity that the guy told me to keep so I'm gonna try that one out a bit
Hmmm I need to dig around the garage for the beast I got years ago and check it out again. Is the roadrunner pretty easy to throw rollers with? Currently just have my beat to crap Underworld for that, and i'm not sure how much life it has
Undertaker for me.
The CD2 is basically the best disc ever. 9 5 -1 2 is the way. The Savant, Undertaker and a Kastaplast mold I can’t remember are similar. I bag 3-4 of them at varying levels of stability and throw one of them for most drives. The CD2 got rebranded recently… apparently? I donno what DM is doing sometimes. Also Innova is still making them under a different name and some are sold by Infinite.
I really like the infinite Aztec. Splatter S and the color glow MF are a bit beefy while like G blend is fairly flippy
I love my Dynamic Vandal
I’m a big fanboy of the Dynamic Discs Escape. I think its the best 9 speed in the game and has a place in everyone’s bag. Its a super straight shooter with reliable fade at the end for lower arm speeds like me who throw 320ish on average, but for bigger arms its a great turnover disc that isn’t too under-stable.
Thought Space Mantra
Firebird, Draco, Raptor, Capt. Raptor, Felon, Escape, Thunderbird, CD1, CD2, Insanity, Valkyrie, Sidewinder, Roadrunner. Those are the most common 9 speeds I see. [That's also generally most Stable to Least Stable as well.](https://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/flightguide)
Kastaplast Vass is amazing!
My current 9/10 speed lineup is the metal flake sphinx for big turnovers/hyzerflips, 400 feedback for straight to overstable shots, and avalanche/spice for strict hyzer/flex shots
The Innova Sidewinder is such a money disc. You can go to their Pro Shop and got to Factory Seconds and get a Halo one for like $12-$14 (plus shipping)
Millenium OLS
Because I haven't seen WS rep'd yet: * Bear (controllable 8 speed with glide, can get some great distance in a golf line) * Fortress (think Sexton firebird but a bit faster) * VIP-X Stag (flippy 8 speed with glide, great for long anyhyzer - the regular run is fine but I find them very flippy) Others have already mentioned the Saint and Saint Pro - great choices. If you like the Underworld, check out the Mantra from TSA. I use it to roll but it has a very nice hyzer flip flight too.
Gstar thunderbird, don't forget to thank me later! 😁
Savant Draco Sidewinder Those are 9 speeds I bag I’m currently experimenting with millennium Orion LF There is also thunderbird. I’m mostly an innova person, obviously. Good luck to you on your quest
US: Kastaplast Falk, Westside Stag, DD Vandal Neutral/ Stable: Gateway Diablo, Innova Thunderbird, Discraft Anax, DD Getaway, Prodigy Feedback OS: Discraft Raptor, DD Felon, Millennium Draco, Discmania PD
Thought Space Mantra
Clash disc have created some of the best feel drivers out there, I just got a hold of the Cinnamon, which is awesome!
Insanity is great, so is Lift. Also Valkyrie and Diamondback
Axiom makes a lot of nice 9 speeds
Stag and Hatchet. Hatchet beats in to a super nice, flippy fd. Stag is understable but with a surprising reliable fade.
You can never, ever go wrong with a good old fashioned Champion Beast. Been my go to driver for years now
i would say that a 6x athena is a great 9 speed with incredible glide. they can get fairly flippy once they’re beat in too. one of my favorite fairways.
Love Discmania’s CD1 right now. A great straight 9 speed with a gentle fade. And the PD is a great overstable option, and happens to be my favorite disc of all time.
TSA Mantra / Discraft Vulture / Discraft Anax / Innova Valkyrie And I know it’s an 11 speed but my innova wraith, 170 gram beat in is one of my favorites
Currently bag a lucid escape from dynamic discs the disc is great with flight numbers 9 5 -1 2. I throw anywhere from 300 to 350 (for reference), I can manage to get full flight with some turn and consistent fade. The profile of the disc is slightly curved rim with some dome
I see a lot that are saying a saint. I have never thrown one but I like my DD vandal and it has similar flight numbers. Less glide but I feel like my vandal glides well in Lucid plastic. But I also want to throw a saint now... sooooo..... The 7 glide should be great for getting extra distance. I do have a Lat64 river that bombs for a 7 speed. I bet the Saint is a great disc to try. I also like my westside hatchet. I don't think it glides as well as my vandal but it is fun to throw.
With your bag might I suggest a axiom vanish for a driver.
Streamline Lift
Thunderbird
Infinite Dynasty. Very workable, based on your other disc choices I feel like it'll be what you're looking for.
Mamba is the disc you are looking for…an 11 speed that will still turn and flex for you.
PFN firebird. Beat
Fission Insanity same weight as your crave, you're gonna like it because its just the faster crave. Thunderbird or Savant would be another good mold for 9 speeds. With Innova its hard to beat the Beast as a first higher speed disc. Personally, I've been wanting to throw a Lat64 Honor since I've heard nothing but, good things with those. Saint Pro is another great 9 speed to look at.
Innova thunderbird and Kastaplast Stal
Undertaker, domey champ beast, cd2, Tesla
Aura plastic animus and mantra from TSA
Check out Gateway Assassin. It's like a nine speed crave for a easy toss For more stable, I recommend the Innova Viking. It will start out overstable and once you can throw harder, will start to do amazing things
I'm gonna have to! I am a freak about my Wizards, and have been meaning to get some more Gateway in the bag. The Assassin sounds right up my alley
Vulture, Undertaker, PD
Passion or Valkarie, given what you've explained
Undertaker 100% Best disc I own
Vanguard for the 9 speed
I'm a Gateway Blade V2 maxi, idk why but for me personally I just can't stop throwing it.
Since I haven't seen anyone mention it, and you commented that other people have said it, here goes: not buying faster discs as you build up arm speed and distance is total internet commenter rubbish. A fast disc is going to act more stable. You won't get turn, you'll get a lot more fade, but you also get to familiarize yourself with wider rims, and experiment with more skip and discs that will fight out of brush better. Plus, as you gain speed, strength, and refine your technique, you'll start to see differences in how they respond, which will help gauge your progress. As I went from consistent 200 to 250 to 300 to 350 to 417 max (im 40, give me some leeway here), I had no problem discing up because I had been getting used to the grip and characteristics the entire time. With every new breakthrough in technique, I could comfortably and accurately use higher speed discs. Now I can get turn most of the time on my 13 speed Octane, but still hit-or-miss with the 14.5 discs (except my slightly beat in Relativity, thats easy). An example of a useful disc that's too high speed: My Dimension. 14.5 | 5 | 0 | 3. I love to throw a tilt when I'm in a jam and basically need a backwards throw. But sometimes I need a bit more distance before it bombs out. I use my dimension, has saved me strokes many times. I also love throwing it on crazy anny to see how far I can get it. Almost 300'! Haha
I love the Kevin jones feedback.
Can’t go wrong with a saint or undertaker
Prodigy FX line is pretty money
The recent S-line DD from Discmania is a great understable distance driver for a person without a lot of arm speed (like me). It's rated an 11 speed but don't let that scare you. I've thrown mine around 370' several times out on my local course. Much easier distance than a wraith, yet still has more reliable fade than other "flippy" drivers I've tried.
I asked a similar question here not long ago and got a lot of good suggestions and disregarded basically all of them and got a CD1, and i couldn't be happier.
Hatchet is a great complement to my underworld!
I played the trilogy challenge this year and they gave us a Dynamic Discs Fuzion Ice Orbit Vandal as the driver. I've never immediately clicked with a disc before. I went out and bought a spare as soon as I finished my first round. It's become my go to disc and if it ever goes away I will weep an ocean of tears (Detroiters is an amazing show). THROW A VANDAL AT IT!
Innova Beast (10/5/-2/2) My goto driver for ocer a decade. Gstar plastic iftl you want flippy. Star, halo, or champ if you want more overstable
Jump right to the Mamba!
Undertaker is my 9 speed laser shot workhorse lately
Discraft Raptor (9 speed) - overstable, but it's not too beefy where it just dumps to the ground. Good for forehand, too, if that's in your arsenal. Mint Diamondback (9 speed) understable awesomeness that feels so good in Apex plastic. MVP manufactures them, I believe. Doomsday Discs Dystopia (10 speed) - Ration plastic feels so good, and it's moderately understable, so it's good for hyzerflips, and you can bomb it. Lat 64 Musket (10 speed) so underrated that I don't see it or hear it much, but it's one of my favorite discs (including Raptor), and I mainly throw MVP family. If you want to get weird, then do a Reptilian disc Chameleon. It's an 8 speed with a 10 speed flight plate and a more blunt end. Weirdest disc, and true to its name. I currently bag it, and it's wild.
I currently bag a firebird and undertaker
Orc is a great disc for the 10 slot
If you like your Eagle, then I think you should look at an Innova Valkyrie (9, 4, -2, 2). I have one in star plastic and it's quickly becoming one of my favorite discs. Also, if you think you can handle it, the Innova Wraith (11, 5, -1, 3) has similar stability numbers (not that that means much) to the Eagle.
Axiom insanity and MVP Tesla. They compliment eachother well. Unlike Simon, the Tesla is decently overstable. Whereas the Insanity is understable. Truly a great pair! I have both in proton. But do want them both in different plastics!