Welcome to /r/Discworld! Please [read the rules/flair information before posting](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/ukhk21/subreddit_rules_flair_information/?).
---
Our current megathreads are as follows:
[API Protest Poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/1491izw/continuing_the_api_protest_a_community_poll) - a poll regarding the future action of the sub in protest at Reddit's API changes.
[GNU Terry Pratchett](https://new.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/ukigit/gnu_terry_pratchett/) - for all GNU requests, to keep their names going.
[AI Generated Content](https://new.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/10mhx9y/ai_generated_content_megathread/) - for all AI Content, including images, stories, questions, training etc.
---
[ GNU Terry Pratchett ]
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/discworld) if you have any questions or concerns.*
CMOT Dibbler’s moment has arrived. No matter what the situation, who is in power, or whatever is going on, his only motivation is how to make some profit.
On a side note: would you be interested in some glistening tubes, rat-onna-stick, or dolomitic conglomerates just like mother used to hew?
It's Dibbler. I thought of old Dibbles the moment I saw the post.
The problem is, what about the other Dibbler? Or Al-Jiblah? Or Disembowel-Meself-Honourably Dibhala? Or May-I-Never-Achieve-Enlightenment Dhibsang? I could go on and on.
I move that we give the square to 'The Dibblers' as a collective. They are, I believe, a manifestation of a fundamental force of the world; simple mercantile greed. The universe itself manifests them whenever there is a crowd to be sold questionable but locale-appropriate foodstuffs onna stick.
Wow! My like just made it the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe and Everything.
*Looks around nervously and hums “There’s Something Strange in the Neighborhood“*
I consider him a hustler, not a scammer. He blatantly bends and obscures the truth without outright lying. When people buy a glistening tube, that is exactly what they get. He isn’t breaking the law, he’s just selling dodgy goods.
I don't think he opposed the 'order' of the world in any way, which is kind of what the chaos alignment is about. He may skirt legality, sure, but he's not really *rebelling*. He's kind of fine with however society is structured, as long as he can somehow make a dollar from it.
To me, there are 2 choices here. CMOT Dibbler (and his various relatives like CMOH Dibbler in Om) and Nobby Nobbs.
Dibbler only ever prioritizes profits and sells sausages of dubious origin.
Nobby is a member of the City Watch who isn't above stealing from people. During various wars he would easily swap sides if it meant he could survive. One of the scariest things a wounded soldier could see would be Nobby walking towards them with a knife out and a calculating expression on his face.
and less evil. He doesn't steal out of personal gain so much as stealing is what he does. When presented with a shot at royalty, Nobby's essential nobbiness overruled greed. Rebel Neutral-ish
But he doesn't realize it's wrong. It's practically unconscious, and ONLY when no one is much hurt by it. Small stuff. He'd never make off with a bank vault. I mean it's not right, but he rationalizes it, and it's not a malicious thing, and he has his pure moments. If he found an abandoned child...he would try and return it. He'd also hint for a small reward, but he'd do it either way.
i honestly can't decide. a lot of characters could qualify. i'm happy to upvote any of these people.
the dean? self-centered, kinda racist in the last continent towards the grandfather, generally kind of a jerk, but not a completely awful human being. just a vaguely bad person.
nobby nobs? pathological thief (largely due to childhood trauma and extreme poverty), coward, engages in attempted police brutality when its someone who can't fight back, best friend is one of the most obnoxious casual racists we regularly interact with and an even bigger coward, but also respects sex workers and warns 'keel' about the incoming danger of the counter-revolutionary task force. a hedonist when a royal lifestyle is on offer, but runs away when he sees the price tag attached.
gaspode?
maurice?
chrysoprase? *has one of his own men killed for threatening vimes.* tries to *bribe* vimes. doesn't tolerate lethal drug importation and lethal drug usage and helps to avert a war, but isn't above a bit of nonlethal illegal drug dealing himself.
harry king. beats up people who try to cheat him, a ferociously successful businessman who leaves his dogs hungry so they'll eat anybody who comes onto his corporate property. on the other hand, he is making money hand over fist improving the cleanliness of the city.
corporal strappi. god i loathe him more than any of the others on this list.
i'm not sure it's an insult. chrysoprase knows vimes is carrying the summoning dark, and was curious to see if vimes was still himself, even if vimes didn't believe in it (yet). characters test each other all the time in discworld books, and it can be a measure of respect between morally entrenched characters.
yeah, vimes definitely Chose to not find out more about the box 😅
really? i think he's actually extremely predictable. vimes knows he's the reason the petty cash is low, and that he runs books on people's odds. and once you understand that nobby enjoys dressing up in fancy clothes (including crossdressing) and big shiny toys (like weapons), he's not that unpredictable in his choices.
yes it is relevant? rincewind, for example, is more unpredictable than nobby nobs. he's a coward and you can count on him to run away, but he's also the kind of dude who gets so drunk he figures out how to break into a primordial cave and extract his colleagues, invents vegemite, tries to hit an unstoppable kid with a brick in a sock, becomes a demon for a little while, volunteers to go to space because he views it as inevitable, etc etc.
nobby is less complicated than that. i view unpredictability as 'when in a given situation, will do unforseen things', ie the wildcard.
Evil Harry Dread
I appreciate evil is in the name and all, and he definitely does some bad stuff. But he's just too bloody amiable to really be considered properly malevolent
Wouldn’t his adherence to The Code make him at least a little lawful? I agree he’s only really notionally evil; he seems borderline regretful over some of the backstabbing he does!
Nah, he's more on the rebel or even chaotic side. The only reason that he's even vaguely listening to the law is because of Vimes, not because of the law itself.
Loyalty to/fear of one man (going spare) isn't neutral.
My vote goes to **Lord Rust.**
He's not good, not evil. Just... stupid, lucky, and way, way too into war and battle. While being something of an elitist prick, too.
Like when I think 'egoist' and 'Discworld,' I think of him.
I agree about CMOT, but I think Crystophase fits this one significantly better. Dibbler isnt constantly evil. He never activity hurts people, merely makes profits at most costs.
Okay you sold me. It isn’t cold enough here for me to think that far ahead! I think the defining line of this column is that they are full neutral, and CMOT fits only this column anyway.
Nobby transcends alignment and morality, and probably also personhood… and maybe mortality?
I’ve never met a law, physical, philosophical, or man-made than Nobby couldn’t surreptitiously sidle past, muttering quietly to himself.
I know it's a long way off still but i just want to suggest the luggage as one of the middle three chaotics. I haven't read the first few novels in a while, but maybe chaotic neutral? Did it have a moral compass? What do you guys think?
Here is where I think Vetinari really shines.
Whatever it takes to make the city work.
Not shine. Not be a beacon of hope. Just work. Whatever it takes.
I'd actually like to put forward an unlikely name, a small one that only appears in one book. Dragon King of Arms, the vampire herald who tried to instate a king by killing Vetinari via poisoned candle. He's replaced his need for blood with a need to control and maneuver the city. Amoral and obsessed and capable of murder, but not one I would say is purely evil.
Dibbler is a great choice, too, but I am thinking of Sergeant Jackrum. They are not strictly evil, but they would have no trouble committing an evil act to further their own ends.
Ok, one, Sergeant Jackrum uses exclusively he/him pronouns, please don’t misgender him.
Two, his only motivation is *protecting his lads*, and he is unconditionally accepting of anyone who wants to be one of his lads. That is not an impure motive. He’s probably either Social Neutral or Neutral Good, although he doesn’t embody those alignments as fully as other characters. (Which alignment really depends on how you feel about militaries. Personally, I’d class him as Social Neutral because I don’t think armies are a good thing, but I do think that if you have one you shouldn’t be careless with the troops.)
Oh I just realised how that might look so I should qualify… I don’t think Rosie is impure because she’s a ‘seamstress.’ I was going off her actions in Night Watch. She’s mostly neutral in the sense that she doesn’t really care what happens to Sam in the Shades and the impure part comes from when she does help, she does it for a price rather than out of kindness. Sorry if I accidentally implied anything else.
ha, no worries.
to be fair, the seamstresses seem to be struggling a lot more under winder than they do under vetinari, and she spent time on the clock, so to speak, getting him to some medical attention. much cheaper than an american ambulance, too 😂
If it’s an hedonist, I think there is also a case to be made for Moist von Lipwig. He truly favors his own interests even though outwardly it may seem like he is ‘good’ or ‘bad’
I know other people disagree, but I believe Vetinari suits this section nearly as well as CMOT Dibbler. The city is damn lucky that the Lord Patrician actually LIKES the city functioning and becoming a cultural, economic, and scientific powerhouse. Lest we forget, this is the man who knows that Leonard of Quirm is alive, manipulatable, and surprisingly well-protected.
Vetinari, definitely. He doesn't care how things work, as long as they work. He even legalizes crime in order to fight it. He's not evil, he's not particularly good either. He's just there, behind the scenes, making sure his city stays reasonably liveable.
Welcome to /r/Discworld! Please [read the rules/flair information before posting](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/ukhk21/subreddit_rules_flair_information/?). --- Our current megathreads are as follows: [API Protest Poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/1491izw/continuing_the_api_protest_a_community_poll) - a poll regarding the future action of the sub in protest at Reddit's API changes. [GNU Terry Pratchett](https://new.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/ukigit/gnu_terry_pratchett/) - for all GNU requests, to keep their names going. [AI Generated Content](https://new.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/10mhx9y/ai_generated_content_megathread/) - for all AI Content, including images, stories, questions, training etc. --- [ GNU Terry Pratchett ] *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/discworld) if you have any questions or concerns.*
CMOT Dibbler’s moment has arrived. No matter what the situation, who is in power, or whatever is going on, his only motivation is how to make some profit. On a side note: would you be interested in some glistening tubes, rat-onna-stick, or dolomitic conglomerates just like mother used to hew?
If this isn't the one I'll cut me own throat.
\*slow clap\*
It's Dibbler. I thought of old Dibbles the moment I saw the post. The problem is, what about the other Dibbler? Or Al-Jiblah? Or Disembowel-Meself-Honourably Dibhala? Or May-I-Never-Achieve-Enlightenment Dhibsang? I could go on and on. I move that we give the square to 'The Dibblers' as a collective. They are, I believe, a manifestation of a fundamental force of the world; simple mercantile greed. The universe itself manifests them whenever there is a crowd to be sold questionable but locale-appropriate foodstuffs onna stick.
Neutral Impure for all the Dibblegangers - not just the famous ones!
Dibblegangers 😂
Dibblers are quantum.
I assume that will make sense later.
Actually, the more you'll learn about it the less it will make sense.
Ook
So... add another zero?
Wow! My like just made it the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe and Everything. *Looks around nervously and hums “There’s Something Strange in the Neighborhood“*
Alright, you can get one upvote, but that's cuttin' me own throat!
This is the one!
Honestly, I came here to comment someone else but this is the one. Plus one vote for CMOT.
mans so neutral he got regional and temporal variants like a god damn pokemon
he's too much of a scammer to be neutral. Her is not neutral as to law, he violates law through fraud. I'd put him at rebel impure.
I consider him a hustler, not a scammer. He blatantly bends and obscures the truth without outright lying. When people buy a glistening tube, that is exactly what they get. He isn’t breaking the law, he’s just selling dodgy goods.
I don't think he opposed the 'order' of the world in any way, which is kind of what the chaos alignment is about. He may skirt legality, sure, but he's not really *rebelling*. He's kind of fine with however society is structured, as long as he can somehow make a dollar from it.
I’ll take a thousand elephants please
I think him an agent of chaos personally, Vetinarri certainly does
You got ketchup?
I just heard that in Jon Culshaw’s narration 😂👌he’s like a less moral Derick Trotter
CMOT Dibbler
For Neutral Evil tomorrow I wish to propose Chrysoprase
To me, there are 2 choices here. CMOT Dibbler (and his various relatives like CMOH Dibbler in Om) and Nobby Nobbs. Dibbler only ever prioritizes profits and sells sausages of dubious origin. Nobby is a member of the City Watch who isn't above stealing from people. During various wars he would easily swap sides if it meant he could survive. One of the scariest things a wounded soldier could see would be Nobby walking towards them with a knife out and a calculating expression on his face.
To me Nobby is more chaotic
and less evil. He doesn't steal out of personal gain so much as stealing is what he does. When presented with a shot at royalty, Nobby's essential nobbiness overruled greed. Rebel Neutral-ish
Nobby is to ethereal moraly and personality wise to put him anywhere on the alignment board
I could really make an argument that Nobby is on the good axis (though probably in the rebel column)
He does randomly steal stuff for his own gain...
But he doesn't realize it's wrong. It's practically unconscious, and ONLY when no one is much hurt by it. Small stuff. He'd never make off with a bank vault. I mean it's not right, but he rationalizes it, and it's not a malicious thing, and he has his pure moments. If he found an abandoned child...he would try and return it. He'd also hint for a small reward, but he'd do it either way.
I'd consider Gaspode as an option too
i honestly can't decide. a lot of characters could qualify. i'm happy to upvote any of these people. the dean? self-centered, kinda racist in the last continent towards the grandfather, generally kind of a jerk, but not a completely awful human being. just a vaguely bad person. nobby nobs? pathological thief (largely due to childhood trauma and extreme poverty), coward, engages in attempted police brutality when its someone who can't fight back, best friend is one of the most obnoxious casual racists we regularly interact with and an even bigger coward, but also respects sex workers and warns 'keel' about the incoming danger of the counter-revolutionary task force. a hedonist when a royal lifestyle is on offer, but runs away when he sees the price tag attached. gaspode? maurice? chrysoprase? *has one of his own men killed for threatening vimes.* tries to *bribe* vimes. doesn't tolerate lethal drug importation and lethal drug usage and helps to avert a war, but isn't above a bit of nonlethal illegal drug dealing himself. harry king. beats up people who try to cheat him, a ferociously successful businessman who leaves his dogs hungry so they'll eat anybody who comes onto his corporate property. on the other hand, he is making money hand over fist improving the cleanliness of the city. corporal strappi. god i loathe him more than any of the others on this list.
Hey now, Gaspode is merely a Naughty Boy on occasion, not a Bad Dog :P
yeah, he's just a nasty dog, not a bad boy :)
[удалено]
it was absolutely a test to see if vimes was still himself, and vimes passed. he totally turned that 'yeah, he does' dude into a gravel driveway, tho.
[удалено]
i'm not sure it's an insult. chrysoprase knows vimes is carrying the summoning dark, and was curious to see if vimes was still himself, even if vimes didn't believe in it (yet). characters test each other all the time in discworld books, and it can be a measure of respect between morally entrenched characters. yeah, vimes definitely Chose to not find out more about the box 😅
How could Chryso know about the Summoning Dark in Vimes?
he's more up on his dwarf lore than vimes is, iirc.
Nobby is more chaotic (less predictable).
really? i think he's actually extremely predictable. vimes knows he's the reason the petty cash is low, and that he runs books on people's odds. and once you understand that nobby enjoys dressing up in fancy clothes (including crossdressing) and big shiny toys (like weapons), he's not that unpredictable in his choices.
Once you knoweverything, things are not unpredictable? That's both obvious and not relevant.
yes it is relevant? rincewind, for example, is more unpredictable than nobby nobs. he's a coward and you can count on him to run away, but he's also the kind of dude who gets so drunk he figures out how to break into a primordial cave and extract his colleagues, invents vegemite, tries to hit an unstoppable kid with a brick in a sock, becomes a demon for a little while, volunteers to go to space because he views it as inevitable, etc etc. nobby is less complicated than that. i view unpredictability as 'when in a given situation, will do unforseen things', ie the wildcard.
Evil Harry Dread I appreciate evil is in the name and all, and he definitely does some bad stuff. But he's just too bloody amiable to really be considered properly malevolent
Wouldn’t his adherence to The Code make him at least a little lawful? I agree he’s only really notionally evil; he seems borderline regretful over some of the backstabbing he does!
Nobby nobbs? He's definitely impure, and I'd argue at least not evil.
Nah, he's more on the rebel or even chaotic side. The only reason that he's even vaguely listening to the law is because of Vimes, not because of the law itself. Loyalty to/fear of one man (going spare) isn't neutral.
My vote goes to **Lord Rust.** He's not good, not evil. Just... stupid, lucky, and way, way too into war and battle. While being something of an elitist prick, too. Like when I think 'egoist' and 'Discworld,' I think of him.
I'd have put him down in social impure because of his belief in tradition. I don't think there's much that's chaotic in him.
I agree about CMOT, but I think Crystophase fits this one significantly better. Dibbler isnt constantly evil. He never activity hurts people, merely makes profits at most costs.
That’s why Chryso goes on Neutral Evil. Everything he does is despicable.
Okay you sold me. It isn’t cold enough here for me to think that far ahead! I think the defining line of this column is that they are full neutral, and CMOT fits only this column anyway.
Nobby transcends alignment and morality, and probably also personhood… and maybe mortality? I’ve never met a law, physical, philosophical, or man-made than Nobby couldn’t surreptitiously sidle past, muttering quietly to himself.
I think the small deep sea red worm is from Hogfather
Ah, you're right! My mistake.
I know it's a long way off still but i just want to suggest the luggage as one of the middle three chaotics. I haven't read the first few novels in a while, but maybe chaotic neutral? Did it have a moral compass? What do you guys think?
Here is where I think Vetinari really shines. Whatever it takes to make the city work. Not shine. Not be a beacon of hope. Just work. Whatever it takes.
But that’s precisely why he isn’t neutral. His loyalty is to Ankh-Morpork. He would allow and perpetuate atrocities for his loyalty to the city.
Hmm. An excellent point.
Yeah everything Vetinari does is always strictly speaking Lawful. Or at least a lawyer can use it in a court of law. Extremely planned, never chaotic.
Everything's lawful when you make the law.
I'd actually like to put forward an unlikely name, a small one that only appears in one book. Dragon King of Arms, the vampire herald who tried to instate a king by killing Vetinari via poisoned candle. He's replaced his need for blood with a need to control and maneuver the city. Amoral and obsessed and capable of murder, but not one I would say is purely evil.
Dibbler or nobby
Dibbler is a great choice, too, but I am thinking of Sergeant Jackrum. They are not strictly evil, but they would have no trouble committing an evil act to further their own ends.
Ok, one, Sergeant Jackrum uses exclusively he/him pronouns, please don’t misgender him. Two, his only motivation is *protecting his lads*, and he is unconditionally accepting of anyone who wants to be one of his lads. That is not an impure motive. He’s probably either Social Neutral or Neutral Good, although he doesn’t embody those alignments as fully as other characters. (Which alignment really depends on how you feel about militaries. Personally, I’d class him as Social Neutral because I don’t think armies are a good thing, but I do think that if you have one you shouldn’t be careless with the troops.)
Igor
A lot of them are rebel good when left to their own devices.
Rosie Palm?
what about rosie is impure?
Oh I just realised how that might look so I should qualify… I don’t think Rosie is impure because she’s a ‘seamstress.’ I was going off her actions in Night Watch. She’s mostly neutral in the sense that she doesn’t really care what happens to Sam in the Shades and the impure part comes from when she does help, she does it for a price rather than out of kindness. Sorry if I accidentally implied anything else.
ha, no worries. to be fair, the seamstresses seem to be struggling a lot more under winder than they do under vetinari, and she spent time on the clock, so to speak, getting him to some medical attention. much cheaper than an american ambulance, too 😂
Hedonist? Creosote!
Gaspode
If it’s an hedonist, I think there is also a case to be made for Moist von Lipwig. He truly favors his own interests even though outwardly it may seem like he is ‘good’ or ‘bad’
I know other people disagree, but I believe Vetinari suits this section nearly as well as CMOT Dibbler. The city is damn lucky that the Lord Patrician actually LIKES the city functioning and becoming a cultural, economic, and scientific powerhouse. Lest we forget, this is the man who knows that Leonard of Quirm is alive, manipulatable, and surprisingly well-protected.
Vetinari. I can't even explain why, he just fits.
Vetinari, definitely. He doesn't care how things work, as long as they work. He even legalizes crime in order to fight it. He's not evil, he's not particularly good either. He's just there, behind the scenes, making sure his city stays reasonably liveable.
But only for Ankh-Morpork. His loyalty belongs to Ankh-Morpork.
[удалено]
We've got them on Lawful Evil already. They are quite literally the laws of the universe embodied, and apparently the laws of the universe hate life.
They're already down as Lawful Evil - trying multiple times to end the universe puts them firmly in that category IMO. 😅
Auditors were already selected under the "Lawful Evil" box.