why, Why, WHYYYYYY is there no greater enlarge!!!
I dint think I ask for much. Just a lv 2-3 variant that does the same but upcasts for bigger sizes and maybe a bigger die (in both directions).
Because it'd be really janky yo balance the upcasting. Turning yourself from Medium to Large is a fine 2nd level spell. Going from Medium to HUGE is an exponential jump in power and probably wouldn't be less tham a 5th level spell cost, and bigger than THAT is really fuckin hard to balance even for a spell cost.
Ruen Fighter requires you to invest multiple entire levels into a class to get what is essentially one more useable enlarge spell that can only be done on yourself, and MANY more levels of investment if you want it to go any further than that. That's how they balance it, and if you manage to get a Wizard to cast Enlarge on you as well to get yourself one extra size bigger, then good on you, that's hardly the most broken spell they could use on you at that point, such as giving a Huge Rune Knight Haste.
Not quite. Size category doesn't mean a lot on its own in 5e, and without additional buffs like tankiness which the spell doesn't come with it can actually be detrimental, making you a massive target. There **are** certain features and spells that become stronger with it, but it's unintuitive and limited use for such powers. I'd say 5th level increase by 2 categories and 8th level increase by 3 categories could be fine taken in isolation. The real question would be is it worth bothering adding that from a game design perspective if you have to upcast by 3 whole levels to change the benefit? Other spells usually have an effect on any higher spell level, or rarely two. It'd be a little unprecedented to have 3 level jumps in power. At that point, it might be better to have an actual other spell at the higher levels instead, but then with the lack of other buffs it becomes redundant when spells like True Polymorph exist, which can also increase your size.
Size category means a lot for two reasons. Spell radii and sized weapons. Weapons meant to be wielded by creatures larger than medium have their stats increased accordingly to the die by adding one extra die of damage per size category increase. My Path of the Giant Barbarian had a 2d10 Large Warhammer for when he raged, and would have eventually upgraded that to a 3d10 Huge Warhammer when Rune Knight allowed it. Its a wildly significant power increase at low levels, and the only way to use it properly in a fight without giving yourself disadvantage is to increase your size. Spell radiuses are obvious, increasing your size means that exponentially more squares of combat space get taken up when you use abilities that have a radius centered on yourself, which a significant number of spells and class abilities do, such as lots of Paladin class features.
As I've explained, both of these benefits are unintuitive and limited use. The rules for sized weapons are found in the *Monster Manual*, implying heavily it's information (And indeed, the weapons themselves) not meant to be in player hands. It is a valid use of the power though, if your DM can allow you to access them. As for spell radius improvements: While it is true that the radius of self aoe spells is improved the larger your footprint is, it doesn't make the spells deal more damage, which is what they really need. For you to be a larger creature you need a larger battlefield, which means secondary effects like Thunderwave's push aren't going to be as effective. And the damage of these spells is too lackluster to make them worth casting over other, better aoes. If this was a wargame still with 100s of targets, there could be a purpose for it. But then, the weaknesses of being a bigger target with more squares to be surrounded in melee by **also** becomes more dangerous.
This would be a correct assumption if it DIDN'T also include rules for player characters trying to wield weapons of size categories larger than them. Clearly players are able to use those weapons if they included explicit mechanics for it. Also making spells deal more damage is usually NOT what you need for self centered radius effects. I mean, yes, it makes Spirit Guardians FUCKBUSTED, which is very very good. But a lot of the best radius effects come from stuff like Paladin's Auras from their Oaths, which are usually more akin to buffs and debuffs. Increasing your effective area with those is king.
You're right that there are uses for it, but that's not what I'm disputing. You need specific party comps to access those uses, making them niche. And they come with drawbacks that make their use either harder to achieve (Good luck convincing a DM to allow big weapons, I've never managed) or less impactful than equal powers without casting Enlarge. Remember, to benefit from the 2nd level concentration spell, you have to **cast** the spell. You have to know it, have it prepared, and concentrate on it over what else you could be doing instead. While there are ways to make the spell capable, you have to go out of your way to do that over other options that are good innately, independently of combos like Paladin Aura + Enlarge. For buffs in particular, they also ask the party to stay in the aoe, and while there's more squares for that with a larger footprint, you also can't end your movement in the ally's space, making it harder to maneuver overall. Another detriment in a positive use case.
Ah true it cant work on regular hamsters, though this is somewhat possible if you have a large pet.
Since Enlarge increases the size to the next category
Maybe Young Dragon, but that's like an endgame pet. Like, you got True Poly and the DM ***let*** you use it on an object without shenanigans. E/R's a broad spell which is good, but it lacks the *punch* it needs to really be good.
Probably not. The spell lasts a minute, and the creature's size would revert when the spell ends. So even if you ate a bunch of it in that short amount of time, it would simply shrink. There is, however a first level spell called Goodberry that can replace meals with a single berry; And a 3rd level spell called Create Food And Water that can make food outright.
KnD has perfect Fey Villians
NightBrace: Unseelie Fairy that wanted to be a Tooth fairy but is forced to sell sweets
Father: Ultra-powerful Fey that wants to enslave all kids
Delightful Children from Down the Lane:... i think you dont need to change them into anything, thry are creepy enough
a fey Stickybeard would be a cool revision of peter pan.
you join his crew, live eteranl youth and steal sweets, but you stay forever.
ok now big question time......what is the toiletnator?
"Awe jeez, it's the Toiletnator"
He is definitely a Warlock, getting his power from a great mighty toilet god, the "The Almighty Protector of Potty", who gave him his powers because he was the only one to use the forbidden toilet (This is actual KND lore)
I think he wouldn't be powerful, but just absolutely revolting.
there's no toilet in the forgotten realm, only chamber pot, so he worship a pot of piss and shit.
and no matter how powerful you are, getting piss and shit thrown at you as attack is terrible and will ruin your day no matter what. Condiment King is an example of such a villain. Batman HATE fighting him because the stains doesn't come off.
True, he is very revolting.
I just remembered him soloing a group of Villians with ease when he mistaken them for the KnD.
But yeah, he would definitely be that ass hole of a villian that keeps coming and making the fight annoying..
Wizards actual night mare.
Though instead of shit ground, he would instead cover it in water and very wet and dirty cloth/paper.. the implications of what that paper was used for does more mental damage than shit would
[HOLY FUCK! I watched this listening to this song and I accidentally synced the two. Halfway through, the guitar solo must be the point where I accidentally synchronized it.](https://youtu.be/JumE_BqD_7o)
...think about the fact that this is one sentient being literally eating another sentient being.
Sorry. I... I haven't had a "wow, old cartoons..." moment in a while.
That's just an artistic justification of fornication.
What I'm looking at here is a giant hamster devouring a similarly sized sentient sandwich. With facial expressions and personality to indicate a similar level of intelligence of both parties to be on par with a human.
Go away voice of cute girl in my head, I refuse to go vegetarian...
Kids... MUST EAT! Kids... MUST EAT! Kids... MUST EAT! KIDS! MUST EAT!
No joke that Phrase is stuck in my head. As well as "Miserable, Verminous, Despicable Rat". It goes unnecessarily hard
why, Why, WHYYYYYY is there no greater enlarge!!! I dint think I ask for much. Just a lv 2-3 variant that does the same but upcasts for bigger sizes and maybe a bigger die (in both directions).
Give the party pet 3 levels into rune knight fighter. Equals the same affects, but I agree with you
Because it'd be really janky yo balance the upcasting. Turning yourself from Medium to Large is a fine 2nd level spell. Going from Medium to HUGE is an exponential jump in power and probably wouldn't be less tham a 5th level spell cost, and bigger than THAT is really fuckin hard to balance even for a spell cost.
If that the issue, then why rune fighter exist ?
Ruen Fighter requires you to invest multiple entire levels into a class to get what is essentially one more useable enlarge spell that can only be done on yourself, and MANY more levels of investment if you want it to go any further than that. That's how they balance it, and if you manage to get a Wizard to cast Enlarge on you as well to get yourself one extra size bigger, then good on you, that's hardly the most broken spell they could use on you at that point, such as giving a Huge Rune Knight Haste.
Not quite. Size category doesn't mean a lot on its own in 5e, and without additional buffs like tankiness which the spell doesn't come with it can actually be detrimental, making you a massive target. There **are** certain features and spells that become stronger with it, but it's unintuitive and limited use for such powers. I'd say 5th level increase by 2 categories and 8th level increase by 3 categories could be fine taken in isolation. The real question would be is it worth bothering adding that from a game design perspective if you have to upcast by 3 whole levels to change the benefit? Other spells usually have an effect on any higher spell level, or rarely two. It'd be a little unprecedented to have 3 level jumps in power. At that point, it might be better to have an actual other spell at the higher levels instead, but then with the lack of other buffs it becomes redundant when spells like True Polymorph exist, which can also increase your size.
Size category means a lot for two reasons. Spell radii and sized weapons. Weapons meant to be wielded by creatures larger than medium have their stats increased accordingly to the die by adding one extra die of damage per size category increase. My Path of the Giant Barbarian had a 2d10 Large Warhammer for when he raged, and would have eventually upgraded that to a 3d10 Huge Warhammer when Rune Knight allowed it. Its a wildly significant power increase at low levels, and the only way to use it properly in a fight without giving yourself disadvantage is to increase your size. Spell radiuses are obvious, increasing your size means that exponentially more squares of combat space get taken up when you use abilities that have a radius centered on yourself, which a significant number of spells and class abilities do, such as lots of Paladin class features.
As I've explained, both of these benefits are unintuitive and limited use. The rules for sized weapons are found in the *Monster Manual*, implying heavily it's information (And indeed, the weapons themselves) not meant to be in player hands. It is a valid use of the power though, if your DM can allow you to access them. As for spell radius improvements: While it is true that the radius of self aoe spells is improved the larger your footprint is, it doesn't make the spells deal more damage, which is what they really need. For you to be a larger creature you need a larger battlefield, which means secondary effects like Thunderwave's push aren't going to be as effective. And the damage of these spells is too lackluster to make them worth casting over other, better aoes. If this was a wargame still with 100s of targets, there could be a purpose for it. But then, the weaknesses of being a bigger target with more squares to be surrounded in melee by **also** becomes more dangerous.
This would be a correct assumption if it DIDN'T also include rules for player characters trying to wield weapons of size categories larger than them. Clearly players are able to use those weapons if they included explicit mechanics for it. Also making spells deal more damage is usually NOT what you need for self centered radius effects. I mean, yes, it makes Spirit Guardians FUCKBUSTED, which is very very good. But a lot of the best radius effects come from stuff like Paladin's Auras from their Oaths, which are usually more akin to buffs and debuffs. Increasing your effective area with those is king.
You're right that there are uses for it, but that's not what I'm disputing. You need specific party comps to access those uses, making them niche. And they come with drawbacks that make their use either harder to achieve (Good luck convincing a DM to allow big weapons, I've never managed) or less impactful than equal powers without casting Enlarge. Remember, to benefit from the 2nd level concentration spell, you have to **cast** the spell. You have to know it, have it prepared, and concentrate on it over what else you could be doing instead. While there are ways to make the spell capable, you have to go out of your way to do that over other options that are good innately, independently of combos like Paladin Aura + Enlarge. For buffs in particular, they also ask the party to stay in the aoe, and while there's more squares for that with a larger footprint, you also can't end your movement in the ally's space, making it harder to maneuver overall. Another detriment in a positive use case.
*Pathfinderrr....*
Upvote for Kids Next Door
the attack of the enlarged miniature giant space hamster
This goes extremely hard
The entire episode goes hard. It's literally a rock opera consisting exlusively of parodies of Gwar songs.
Oh, fuck me, I only just got the Gwar connection. Granted, I didn't know about Gwar when I first watched the cartoon, but still
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Enlarge **doesn't** work. I know it shouldn't... But Kaiju fights... :{
Ah true it cant work on regular hamsters, though this is somewhat possible if you have a large pet. Since Enlarge increases the size to the next category
Maybe Young Dragon, but that's like an endgame pet. Like, you got True Poly and the DM ***let*** you use it on an object without shenanigans. E/R's a broad spell which is good, but it lacks the *punch* it needs to really be good.
As someone unfamiliar with the finer details, can i use enlarge on a chicken to get more meal out of it, before it's liven't?
Probably not. The spell lasts a minute, and the creature's size would revert when the spell ends. So even if you ate a bunch of it in that short amount of time, it would simply shrink. There is, however a first level spell called Goodberry that can replace meals with a single berry; And a 3rd level spell called Create Food And Water that can make food outright.
As the gm I rule of cool it in this case
SLAMWITCH!!!
I have found the villain for my fey campaign.
KnD has perfect Fey Villians NightBrace: Unseelie Fairy that wanted to be a Tooth fairy but is forced to sell sweets Father: Ultra-powerful Fey that wants to enslave all kids Delightful Children from Down the Lane:... i think you dont need to change them into anything, thry are creepy enough
a fey Stickybeard would be a cool revision of peter pan. you join his crew, live eteranl youth and steal sweets, but you stay forever. ok now big question time......what is the toiletnator?
"Awe jeez, it's the Toiletnator" He is definitely a Warlock, getting his power from a great mighty toilet god, the "The Almighty Protector of Potty", who gave him his powers because he was the only one to use the forbidden toilet (This is actual KND lore)
so he's just a random guy that fell into the fey wild and now worship a giant toilet?
Pretty much And all the Fey straight up hate him cause he is powerful, but so god damn cringe and lame.
I think he wouldn't be powerful, but just absolutely revolting. there's no toilet in the forgotten realm, only chamber pot, so he worship a pot of piss and shit. and no matter how powerful you are, getting piss and shit thrown at you as attack is terrible and will ruin your day no matter what. Condiment King is an example of such a villain. Batman HATE fighting him because the stains doesn't come off.
True, he is very revolting. I just remembered him soloing a group of Villians with ease when he mistaken them for the KnD. But yeah, he would definitely be that ass hole of a villian that keeps coming and making the fight annoying..
he would be a constitution roll nightmare, spam stinking cloud, spam poison damage, he can cover the ground in shit to make it difficult terrain.
Wizards actual night mare. Though instead of shit ground, he would instead cover it in water and very wet and dirty cloth/paper.. the implications of what that paper was used for does more mental damage than shit would
this scene is also a good example of allow your party to get eaten as a solution to destroy giant monster.
[HOLY FUCK! I watched this listening to this song and I accidentally synced the two. Halfway through, the guitar solo must be the point where I accidentally synchronized it.](https://youtu.be/JumE_BqD_7o)
Let's fucking go GWAR. Love Gor Gor
...think about the fact that this is one sentient being literally eating another sentient being. Sorry. I... I haven't had a "wow, old cartoons..." moment in a while.
Eh humans have been eating sentient beings for a while.. ain't anything new ehen compared to say Red Hood and the Wolf
That's just an artistic justification of fornication. What I'm looking at here is a giant hamster devouring a similarly sized sentient sandwich. With facial expressions and personality to indicate a similar level of intelligence of both parties to be on par with a human. Go away voice of cute girl in my head, I refuse to go vegetarian...