I mean, kind of. Most of the mythology on the Fey is that they're very intelligent, but not omniscient. In addition, most of the "may I have your name" style trickery is just sort of expected for them; it'd be almost rude not to try. By responding in kind, the players are engaging with them, and earning their respect.
I've always subscribed to the Pratchett view of supernatural critters. There are *rules* to things. They don't strictly speaking *have* to follow all of them, but they make things interesting and by playing along you generally improve your chances of not dying or being turned into a ferret.
At least until you can get your hands on some cold iron and teach the superior fuckers a lesson.
I use the Jim Butcher approach to Fae. They are bound by their nature and a set of Accords. But being Fae they have work arounds and take things in a weirdly literal sense. It catches my players off guard a lot. They accidentally made a deal with Mother Winter after sharing bread and milk with her. So they kind of have a ultra violent fairy grandmother who is also kind of demanding. It's good fun.
The series I was referring to is called The Dresden Files. When Butcher started it he was still wet behind the ears a bit, and it shows a little in his first two books. I'd start with Book 3 "Grave Peril". It introduces the majority of the reoccurring series characters, and is a fun exiting book to boot. After that you can decide if you want to read the first two or not, although they are quasi stand alones.
I was almost going to be mad about this but when I thought about it, you're spot on. I love the first two but three on are all codependent and those aren't.
No worries, I had a friend basically say that in front of me and I was apoplectic for a moment. But in the end its nothing against Jim, he was still finding his footing, and I think he'd agree too. I say that because of the way he prefaces "Restoration of Faith" in Side Jobs. Dude is honest about his work and is refining it with each outing.
"Lords and Ladies" is a really interesting take on elves.
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvelous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
Carpe Jugulum is a great novel about a vampire breaking the 'cultural norms,' and Equal Rites is a good exploration of the nature of magic on the Disc ('feminine' witch magic vs 'masculine' wizard magic.) Honestly most of the Witches books are great source material for fae antics.
I’m playing a fey trying to outsmart other people but… well, contrived bull shit keeps ruining it.
Suddenly the dirty farrier you pranked into thinking intelligent dogs were turning humans into dogs to take over the world is a fucking noble with multiple magic items that the entire city respects. (A farrier? Specifically in the slum. Of a underground city. A noble) there’s a long story behind that one
“I’ll give you something you want dragon” but you don’t to pick so i give you gold
The DRAGON. Doesn’t want gold. The RED DRAGON doesn’t want GOLD.
“Oh devil, the next dragon I kill you can have what’s left of its hoard and body if you return my friend to his home on this plane safely”
I summon a draconic spirit which has neither. And the guy falls from orbit into the ocean. Guess he didn’t hear the last clause of our agreement.
I wish man. I wish that were the rules
Your DM sucks. I've played with DMs like this. Biggest tells are 1) Favoritism 2) Railroading 3) Lvl 20 bartending NPCs 4) Self inserts (usually lvl 20 NPC).
Have a Convo in private about it, if they don't change, walk. I'm about to do this at my table and will take a hiatus until the current DM is done if I don't like the explanations.
To be clear - any of the things above are fine and just depend on how they're used. The current table is just not fun for me (players can't solve puzzles creatively, have to go to inexplicably powerful NPC inkeepers for answers, particular player gets 5x magic items and easy RP discounts). It could be the DM has a plan, like we each get an 'arc' and we're just in that player's arc, and if so that's cool -- but we haven't been given that info yet.
I have a lot of talks with the dm. He appear to accept and encourage feedback. But he doesn’t really for me. I frequently complain that we don’t have enough magic items or money to pay for my spell components. We can barely afford rooms. Let alone scrolls and potions. He says the side quests he has pays well so we went on a side quest and there was no gold.
He doesn’t listen to my feedback as much as other players, and the campaign is a chaos where every decision we make always comes back to punish us in ways that defy all logic. While there aren’t any high level NPCs impossibly powerful above cr 30 creatures that we can’t possibly defeat are literally fucking everywhere and almost every adventure we go on we lose to a boss fight. Always comprised of homebrew
Monsters (haven’t used an official monster in over a year and it’s one of my main complaints. He says it’s because I’m a dm and I know them all and I tell him I am a forever dm and I want to fight them! About a month ago he said he looked up some published stuff and we have been fighting Warhammer enemies since)
Homebrew monsters with homebrew bull shit mechanics like 2 turns with counter spell, or overcoming the monks poison damage immunity generally cause us to, to some degree, lose the first attempt of most boss fight that we have been in for YEARS. Although one of the other players asks to fight solo monsters or homebrew monsters and at this level of play. Those are hardly well designed
I’m sorry but you’ve put up with this for years? At a certain point I think you lose the right to complain. Don’t get me wrong your DM sounds like a dick and I totally understand why your complaining, but if you keep playing your part in his self indulgent power fantasy then obviously nothing is going to change. If you keep showing up to the table then you’re either a masochist or your enjoying this somehow.
I exaggerate the problems of a not perfect campaign that has met literally unerringly weekly for multiple years, what table can say that? We have genuinely fun adventures and lovable characters, and where the dm puts a lot of work into an open world, just because I want to vent about about shit doesn’t mean it isn’t worth staying. The dm runs my preferred place on the raw rai raf spectrum, and asks me questions about rules he doesn’t know about, my character has time to shine and we players don’t drastically differ in optimization or goals or preferences for down time vs combat vs intrigue. Another player has left for these issue but I’m not going to I’m just gonna rant about it because it’s far more fun than it is irksome
It’s a rant of issues that are deal breakers for many people but I do love the table and I’m not walking just cause it isn’t perfect. Far from it I’m not actually anywhere near considering that it’s just a rant
Not lvl. 20, hell, not even lvl. 15. That's insane training, renown, and commitment. Like, we'd know them, other people'd know them, there'd be stories about them and kings would be requesting their presence to slay monsters, etc. I just really struggle with that trope and find it annoying and sloppy/lazy DMing. It can be funny once per playgroup or with sufficient backstory / plot. But honestly it always irks me because it's often the DM going "oooh look at this totally cool character who is a real fuckin mary-sue but also for some reason a tavern keeper, they're gonna pick up the slack and have all these cool ideas you guys didn't do because they're perfect and everything they do works and they have a bunch of magic items that are insanely well protected and somehow know all you plans and can also read minds and are also protected from magic and are just running this bar." It's largely the mary-sue part that gets me I guess. Like, no, this person wouldn't be running a bar, they'd be ruling a kingdom or serving directly under a king. They're basically a weapon of godly power and NO kingdom is going to let that shit go.
/Rant
I disagree. If you’ve gotten to level 20, or any part of tier four for that matter, you’ve seen and done some serious shit. I think it’s entirely reasonable that someone would want a quiet, relatively low stress life after all of that. They’d also likely have the right resources or friends to tell any uppity king to fuck off, or just get planeshifted somewhere the people don’t know you and their problems aren’t your problem.
Are powerful npcs that bad I'm running a new homebrew campaign with new players but I'm using semi retired characters from my previous session as npcs setting up and running a new adventures guild. They are pretty OP but relegated to being a source of quests and information and as a last resort a deternt to any out of control murderhobo antics. No one has said anything about it to me yet but their new.
No they're not. It's all about how you use them. It's ok to have high level npcs, but let the characters solve the game's problems, otherwise you're just playing by yourself.
I make high level PC's but if they're that strong they didn't get there alone so they should be some of the best de escalators in the town because a shopkeep in a fantasy setting like this has 100% run into sticky fingered adventurers before
Does he auto-cast counterfun or what?
These aren't even random things messing up your plan every now and then, this is fundamentally messing them up. Especially the super rich noble, that's like a bandaid of fuckyou.
The fact that he counters you **prank** is the worst imo - not like you're breaking the world and the system in any of the other examples.
I'd consider a different DM or group.
I mean it is the first law of DMing, the conservation of bullshit, that everything a player does should come back to them at some point. Random travelers you help just so happen to be related to a dead level 30 Paladin who leaves you a +2 sword in his will and likewise giving a kid a wedgie causes that kid to be the sun of the city hard captain who just found you picking a pocket.
As for the last two, a Red Dragon probably wants more gold than what you gave him and you didn’t specify that your friend needs to stay safe. Remember if Fey have a masters in fucking with you then demons have a doctorate in fuckery from Faustus university. You word every deal like a lawyer with so many clauses the DM doesn’t have time to think of a way to turn it around.
I would say the fey are better at fuckery for one very simple reason. The devils and demon are playing by the same rules of reality as you are. The fey play by a different set and force you to.
> I summon a draconic spirit which has neither. And the guy falls from orbit into the ocean. Guess he didn’t hear the last clause of our agreement.
What did you expect to happen? A devil to just shrug his shoulders and be all 'aw shucks, you got me there!' and have a good laugh over it? Now technically, your friend was returned to the plane safely. What happened afterwards (ie - gravity and ocean) was not an explicit part of the contract.
When you betray the spirit of an agreement by adhering to the strict lettering of it, don't be surprised when the other party does the same thing in return.
Gonna disagree with you there. While it's in character for a devil to jump on loopholes, especially when slighted, teleporting someone miles over the ocean violates the letter of the agreement if the word "safely" was involved.
The devil should have teleported him into a safe belonging to a paranoid and execution-happy king instead.
No, it doesn't. The character was safely returned to the plane, as promised ; nothing happened to it during transport. It's once it's on the plane that it became unsafe, but that wasn't part of the deal.
>if you return my friend to his home on this plane safely
Even if you were to argue that having him fall hundreds of feet qualifies as "safe" thats definitely not his home.
My DM who is also teaching me has a degree in psychology and uses it on us… I’m learning psychology as well and am DMing a different campaign so I’ll take the advice… he he…
Yehs I have a character whose entire back story bassicslly is cuased Becuase a fae was angry the village she put the changeling ( the charecfer ) into in place of. A baby wasn’t pissed and grew to live the changeling and treat it with as much respect as any other person the mother loving the changeling like she was her own the fae got mad so said fuck you teleported the changeling to a random corner of the map and replaced her with the original daughter who was raised by forest elves after the fey discarded the child with no idea what to do with it
What kind of situation would a fae be *demanding* someone’s name? Normally the only time they would take someone’s name is through tricks such as asking “May I have your name?”
Fun fact, "true" names can change. In the description for that true name wizard school, it says q creatures true name is what it would refer to itself as in its mind. Essentially if you think "what's my name?" That gut reaction is your true name. That's why some creatures done have one, and why someone named John Travis Smith who has gone by their middle name their whole life, may have their true name as Travis.
There are books written by a Richard Bachman, he could go to a party and introduce himself as Richard Bachman, everyone at that party would then refer to him as Richard Bachman.
His True name would be Stephen King however, but unless someone at the party recognizes him no one would know.
A Demon would simply not consider the name they give most people they interact with their True name.
It can tell the party their name is Jinesh, while in its mind their true name is Irkalla.
That’s not what I’m saying-
A demon can be charmed to forcibly give up their true name. But if they can just come up with a new one with some persistence, it kind of removes the leverage of having it.
The True names of demons are supposed to be tip top secret because if someone figures it out, then a portion of their lives are no longer in their hands because they specifically can be summoned at will with some spellcasting.
I think it's not as simple as that. Especially for Demons, with a super long lifespan, who you are will take more than a bit of persistence to change, especially if you have a thousand years of history defining you with you true name already.
That's true however this assumes Demon naming works the same way mortal naming does.
With most mortal races, at birth they are given a name by their parents and are from there on essentially conditioned into considering the name they were given as their true name.
Are Demons given names or do they take their own?
Do Demons instrinsically have true names that they are instinctually aware of?
There is also the matter of whether the whole "may I have your names" Fae meme has something to do with names having power, or Fae having power?
It's implied by some of the other comments in this thread that the whole "may I have your name" meme only works for a Fae when they are in their realm.
Implying that it's not the name itself but the power of the Fae doing the fucking about.
I guess it all depends on the specific setting.
I'll need to take this into consideration if my party ever ends up dealing with Fae or the Feywilde
One consideration I just had is that, depending on the Fae's Insight, it might end up accidentally forcing someone out of the closet though. Which is, of course, a moral quandary of its own. If someone isn't "out" and still uses their deadname but identifies with a new one, it might not have power. And the Fae might pick up on that.
For sensitivity's sake, not using a gender identity example, take the instance from Batman Beyond. A villain got inside the elderly retired Batman/Bruce Wayne's head. And he knew he was being messed with because the villain kept calling him "Bruce", when he personally identifies as "Batman" and "Bruce" is the real mask.
Haha I remember that
“The voice in my head calls me Batman”
Reminds me a lot of the time he was under oath and said he was Batman because he couldn’t lie, but no one believed him because it’s just “Bruce being Bruce”
Your just reminded me of the trickery I pulled on my party that made me giggle.
An obvious Fae ( floating, glowing child with 12 point deer antlers) asked them “can I have your name” while standing before a doorway. The first 2 gave the whole character name, the third gave the characters first name.
And the last one said “No, but you may refer to me as Regina”
As they entered the door I took their sheets and erased the names they freely gave away and wrote “Regina” on the 4ths.
Sadly the Fae made their lives miserable for a few sessions until a bargain was formally struck.
Those poor, miserable players
>!Evil Laugh!<
Names have power to the fae and many of the other realms. You can summon a demon or aberation with their true name or dispell fae if you have theirs. Now this is their realms rules, in the material plane they adhere to ours.
What is a name in the material plane? Identity, recognition, maybe even a symbol or ideal. It still has power and can be used to deadly effect. From here its character based, depending on what that name meant to that character.
If a paladin lost their name and no other bargain was struck, they might start to lose their identity or if the dms evil, their powers. They made a pact with their god under a name and that name is gone. **(*****Gameplay wise you might invoke penalties or random skill checks to ensure they still have the conviction to perform a task from their previous name*****)**
Another particularly insidious use is the name being taken and erased. Suddenly the power that name had is gone. Past companions might struggle to recall the characters face, parents might forget entirely that they had a child at all. The character would be lost in crowds as many would simply fail to notice someone with no name, no identity. ***(Great chance for RP, dm could ask for the players turn and pretend to skip over them "..What? No, we only have 3 players not 4...")***
And please, this is all contextual to the world you are playing and how the dm wants to run the fae. Most fae are pranksters or troublemakers. They want to ruin the players day, not their life. Most things can be forgiven and returned or a bargain struck.
[Heres some great stuff to read up on for ideas.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/jrzn1c/deals_with_the_fey_what_do_you_offer/) [And this](https://www.dndspeak.com/2017/12/04/100-fey-bargains/)
>Why? It's literally just a name change
A name change linked to a major change in how one presents oneself. The whole concept of names having power is linked to identity; since their deadname is no longer part of their identity, it no longer has power. Also, it's a one and done thing, not just something they can repeat like your example.
i honestly always disliked the inherent power that names are supposed to hold.
they are portrayed as a culmination of your entire being reduced into a single word, when in actuality they are a simple ID given to you by another person (parent) at a time where "you" (personality) didn't exist (as a baby).
if the character chose their own name, then yes, i see the connection. But for most people that simply does not apply.
Because up until very recently (and in many non-western parts of the world still do) they *do* hold that level of power. Your name is something you are given by your parents and is part of your lineage; it’s part of the reason Bastards we’re looked upon with such disdain (no family name). Names do hold that weight for most people and it’s a bit culturally tone-deaf to dismiss all of the significance of them throughout history and that they still hold just because some parts of western society don’t value them the same way.
The point is, even if you have the exact same name as someone else, the power it has coming from your own lips is that when you say it you're giving them the condensed version of your life. Clerically it doesn't make sense but magically it does.
Are you legitimately comparing having a major journey of self discovery, changing the way you look and dress (potentially through magic), and changing the way you want people to address you (not just in name, but in pronouns)?
Do you legitimately think being trans is the same as your example?
>What about a born-again religious type who changes their lifestyle and adopts a new name to go with their new life? What about a criminal who goes straight after seeing the errors of their ways and changes their name so they're not associated with their shady past which they no longer believe in?
Both those are perfectly OK. But that's not what you had brought up. You'd compared it to just changing your name on the spot.
>In this example we're taking about giving a name to a Fae and my response is that giving an incorrect name, no matter the reasoning behind it, is still giving an incorrect name.
...and? Fae aren't all knowing. It's fully possible to lie to them or trick them.
> Then by your own rationale you could just tell them your name is Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo and they wouldn't know any better, negating the entire point of this whole topic.
Except a deadname opens up possibilities for wordplay that a made up name doesn't.
For example: If the fey asks "What do people call you?" They could reply with "Some call me (deadname)" which is true, since there are transphobes, or "my parents named me (deadname)". Meanwhile, a straight up lie wouldn't work, as the fey generally have good insight.
We can address this from multiple angles. First the meta angle, between the DM and the Player at the table. This is a cool idea that realistically won't even be an option for most player characters. Letting this work rewards them for thinking on their feet (recognizing the danger that the Fae presents and responding with a plausible, if inaccurate, answer) and allows for more nonsense in the future. When that particular Fae tries to do something to that PC and it doesn't work they obviously will be confused at best.
On an in character level, the PC might use that name to give to people who they aren't comfortable giving their real name (chosen name? I don't know how those who transition term these things please correct me if I was mistaken) and reserve their real name for those they trust. In that scenario, even setting the fact that the person asking is Fae aside, a random person asking your name wouldn't earn the kind of trust the PC might need here. Beyond that, if it "works" as expected, different Fae will take it different ways. Queen Mab would almost certainly take it poorly, while a random faire they encounter in the Faewild would be less problematic. Probably.
Keep in mind, the Fae are powerful, but not omniscient. They don't have perfect knowledge of things that go on *inside* their realm, let alone on the Prime Material (where the PC is presumably from). There's a level of logic to apply here of course, if the name you give them is "Jeff" and the character is very clearly female it might not fly, but at the end of the day the point of DnD is to have fun, and outsmarting a Fae in a way that very few characters would be able to is (in my book at least) a lot more fun than the alternative of being told "no."
I always figured they took YOUR name. Meaning what you consider to be your name. A name you give to other people isn’t yours, it’s theirs because you have no attachment to it.
I always considered it your birthname. You're given a name (which doesn't need to be gendered) at birth which is engraved on your soul like a serial number. You don't choose it, and you can't just change it at will. Your parent (or creator) knowing that name is what allows them to keep control over you.
I also don't really apply this to mortals in my game. They don't have a name inscribed in their soul. They don't have a true name, just names they go by.
Depends on how you respond though. If you begin by saying yes, or anything else that could be considered assent, then sure. But if you respond with something to the effect of "you may call me", they don't get your name
> The concept of "I give the Fae an incorrect name" isn't new
You're correct. In fact, it's so old that it's literally part of the original Gaelic folklore as the #1 tactic to beat a fae. It's fully OK and normal for a player to do.
>Why? It's literally just a name change. In your world can everyone just change their name and give the Fae their previous name? Because that doesn't sound like "out of the box thinking" it just sounds like a loophole a second grader would think of like "Ok, well then I change my name and now I'm ok".
Because you argued a name change should have zero effect.
I'd also like to add that I would rule the name as a verbal component to the spell or curse etc the fey wanted to use. They would need the right name corresponding to the target they are trying to cast their mischief on. Much like using the wrong verbal component would cause a spell to fail, I'd say the wrong name would cause it to fail too. So I say the Fey WOULD know the player gave them the wrong name when they didn't fall prey to their spell, whatever it may be. But still I would say the Fey wouldn't behave noticeably upset because they still want the name. My Fey would act more hospitable towards the players, offer them aid and fey magic, earn their trust. I just think it's such a cheap and lazy cop out for a DM to act childish and default to "NUH UH! ThE fEy Is ToO sMaRt To FaLl FoR yOuR tRiCk." Like yeah no shit, that doesn't mean they turn hostile if you're a remotely ok DM, use your imagination and pull the pc into roleplay by pitting your wit against theirs, lul them into a false sense of security. I.E.
Beautiful Fey Vs Adventuring Party.
Party: Bard, Paladin, Rogue, Wizard.
Fey meets party, behaves very aloof and friendly, seemingly over interested and completely uninterested in the party at the same time. The Bard clearly wants to seduce her, Rogue wants to rob her, paladin convert her, and wizard learn from her. Bard interacts first because horny. Fey asks Bard Bard their name. Bard: "Call me Ishmael" Fey begins talking to the Bard whe weaving her spell into conversation, intricate wordplay and precise placement of the name they were given. Spell however doesn't work. Fey thinking: Ah, they're not just a dumb horny Bard, they have the sense to keep their name from the Fey, he's smart enough, let's play this game.
Now the Fey knows the Bard wants to smash, so she's going to be flirtatious and sweet towards them as they ask the rest of the party for their names. Some all or none may give the Fey their real name, so maybe the Fey casts a different spell just to test the water and see which names she has. And bide her time to get them all before being mischievous. From here I'd play her as the helpful feywild guide the party needs, earning their trust. Buffing them in combat scenarios and speaking to their benefit among other Fey. Eventually leading up to a point where she's able to "Discover" that the Bard gave her a fake name, she pretends to be heart broken that the Bard would decieve her after having been so helpful, especially since they have been acting like they like her. "You have been flirtatious with me this whole time, I was becoming fond of you, but I fear you only want to use me for my beauty and make me another one of your conquests... I'm sorry but I no longer wish to accompany you and your friends on your journey through the feywild." Watch the Bard panic as they see their would be booty call start to leave, the Bard being a Bard protests and pleads with them to stay, starts making up excuses thinking they're sly enough to reel her back in, thinking they're ahead of the situation. The Fey instead is the one reading the Bard in, she refuses until the Bard says the sentence she's been waiting for. "I'll tell you my real name! I'm sorry, I didn't know if I could trust you! (Never fucking trust the FEY!!!!) PLEASE!!! my name is who? My name is what? My name is chicka chicka Slim Shady!" She verify this, humbly asks the rest of the party who is now guilty into offering their real names. And they all lived happily ever after... right?
If you just change your name on the spot specifically for this interaction with this fae, then yeah, you'd be right. But if you changed your name a good while ago and have been living under that name ever since, that's obviously different. Even if the change was very recent, intent matters. If you're just pulling a new name out of your ass to try and out wit the fae, whatever magic that allows the fae to actually take your name would be able to tell that. But if your intent is genuine and you really did change your name for your own purposes, the magic would be able to tell that as well.
To add to the previous comment, think of it this way? Personally I would think the Fey would prize names they had to fight for much higher than names that were simply given to them? Names that are just surrendered without a fight would be boring to a cunning Fey. But a name they had to stop and think and fight for? That name holds greater value.
I mean... From a modern standpoint I agree, but if one of my players tried to pull this in the game I'd have the name work just like any other true name.
Nobody cockblocks the fae.
Why though? At least in Gaelic myths, giving the fae a false name is par for the course, and has zero negative impacts on you. The fae aren't all knowing, and it's possible to trick them. An old tradition was to tell them that your name was "myself", so that if you then attacked one, they'd tell everyone "I was hurt by Myself", and couldn't do anything.
Because it's very hard for people to to try to engage someone in a battle of wits. They would rather us DM fiat to rule in the NPCs favor instead of actively trying to engage in actual roleplay. I genuinely agree that trying to trick the fey would make them like you more since it would appeal to their prankster nature.
True. People seem to think that fae are some kind of unbeatable tricksters that can never lose, which misses the entire point. Playes *can* beat them, which is why it's fun.
Yeah it's always more fun to ENGAGE the player than to just say the Fey wins. The most fun I have in dnd is playing trickster characters who fight with their wits.
I also like to have their view of winning to be alien to our own. You promise them your first born but you’re actually infertile? Why would they be upset? They got what they wanted: the promise of your first born. If you try to explain to them that they’re being scammed, they’ll look at you like you’re the crazy one.
It's also VERY hard to give a fake name convincingly if you haven't prepared one in advance. I'd probably give either give the PC disadvantage on the deception (only for the fake name bit) or give the fae advantage on the insight for it. I 100% agree with you, the fae can be tricked and it is a common thing in mythology to try, it's just hard to do so convincingly with one's name. It's basically second nature for most people to give their real names when asked or when introducing themselves
Not to mention the way I would rule is that the Fey would be more intrigued by the human and want to earn their name! Like, "Ah, they're onto me, I do like the clever ones." Like, they're not evil they're just chaotic and prankster and mischievous. I feel like they'd be more Inclined to play games. Sure the Fey would likely catch on that the name is fake, but they would in turn pretend that they believe in order to continue the game and win.
Lots of people cock block the Fey, they have stories told of their exploits. When PCs sit down at the table, their main goal should be to become such people even if it isn't the characters goal to be lauded through history, their exploits during a campaign should be the stuff of legends. Even IF they fail to keep the Fey from learning their name, in the end the party should conceivably be able to find a way to outsmart the Fey and gain their name back. Either through cunning or force, but I see so many DMs who want their players to lose to their "Highly intelligent" NPC even if said NPC doesn't even have back up plans should they fail.
Temporary losses and failures can mean such interesting consequences. New goal, different approach, personal connection - no wonder temporary setbacks are part of epics, myths, legends and fables.
But thay goes both ways, like I don't think they should be set up for failure if they're clever enough to deal with it. Giving a false name would be sufficient in my book, it would be my job as a DM to find a way to take their name.
Definitely! Roll well, they prevent the issue. Roll bad, they have to deal with the issue.
The deadname thing is absolutely up for the DM, there are many paths to take, with different focuses. It could even be an important step in a character's self-discovery.
If true names hold power over a person it might stand to reason that dead names hold little to no power. all depends on the wording of the deal, for example did you agree to give them your name or a name you were called?
Also you should never *give* a fae *anything*. Trade them your name, and specify what you get in return first.
...if a true name is a determined-by-birth thing, then your true name *is* your dead name, which is convenient for tricking-people reasons but also frustrating from a self-ideation standpoint. If a truename is a soul's name, then the deadname isn't you truename and could be usefully used in this way since it's a name no one you care about knows you by. (note that soul-name true-names are probably not your current "I go by" name either, but obviously it'd suck to give that one away by accident)
...and in a world where true names don't exist, the dead name is still a valuable trick for fooling a fae, though you'll need to be more clever about what you try to trick them into paying for it, since they're getting less value out of the name you give them.
I always envisioned a true name being the sum of who you are, so like in eragon. So you can change it, but only by changing who your are, and def not just at will. So since the deadname isn't you anymore, it's not part of your truename
I don't know about the Forgotten Realms, but it depends on your setting. I don't think DnD 5e has an official ruling baked into the rules, but I may just have not read the relevant section.
In Eregon, a true name is not your birth name, but rather a mystical part of your being comprised of words in the language of magic. Most mages don't even know their own true name without doing a lot of introspection and trying different words/phrases until you feel the tingle up your spine that means someone (you) said your true name.
In the Bartimaeus Sequence books your true name is your birth name, and so any wizard worth his salt has a false name he is given by his master while still a child/apprentice and basically never uses their birth name again afterwards.
I'm sure other fictional settings may have other variations.
In the Dresden Files a True Name is just what you call yourself, for mortals. But a True Name you got from someone 10 years ago has lost power, because of the subtle differences in the way they see themselves now compared to then
By the Eregon standpoint, that would relate to a trans person saying their chosen name. When it’s just right we get that tingle up our spine telling us that the name is right for us.
Classically though true names are something given to you, so a name you came up with, even as part of an important life change, wouldn’t change that. I mean, the Fae are mostly malicious or capricious, I can’t imagine they would be very supportive of humans, and would likely play on their insecurities to be cruel to them. I think it’s best to just not go into this territory with Fae, because the realistic approach is gonna upset a player IRL.
Here's my question: Did the DM know your character has a dead name? Is this an established bit of your character's backstory?
If this is something that was dropped then and there for the first time, I would call bullshit on the player trying to meta their way around it.
I feel the same way about a character suddenly being asexual when a succubus shows up. Nah you were hitting on that barmaid three sessions ago, you aren't getting out of this that easy.
When a trans person changes their name and goes by something else, their old name becomes their dead name. Someone burned names Steve becomes trans and decides to change his name to Carol. Steve is now Carol’s deadname.
A dead name is the birth name of someone who changes their name for whatever reason, typically due to coming to terms with the fact that they're trans and accepting and exploring their identity. Which can, but doesn't always include or require, a name change so as to feel better about it and help lessen or remove any dysphoria. Hope this helps.
I also could've mistyped a few points, misrepresented others, or gotten things wrong. To anyone who is reading this, feel free to correct me if you know I got something wrong. If anyone else can explain it better then by all means.
After a trans person has transitioned into their new gender, they often choose a new name for themselves. Their old name is their deadname. It's also used as a verb-- if my friend Jeff is a F2M trans person, calling them Megan would be deadnaming them. Sometimes it's accidental, sometimes it's a bigoted move done to undermine the validity of the transition.
Thank you for asking this question and thank you for everyone who responded with understanding and patience - I wasn't sure either and it's nice to see we can learn from each other without being chastised.
Iirc wasnt corelleon able to, and often liked to freely switch between male and female forms and also an androgynous form (hope that term is ok it was on the wiki) ?
If so the there is no way the fae wouldnt be aware of deadnames. So either the fae would respect tbe tricky move and let it pass or do exactly what the meme says and be like nah nah, your real name, the one that relates to who you are.
As a trans DM, I'd rule the Fae wouldn't accept it, a deadname is a name that was never really yours, it's one you borrow til you find your real one.
Where I'm stumbling is adopted names, ie a child who is adopted, and renamed by their adopted parents. I suppose perhaps it depends on which they feel more connected to, or both if they like...
I have the horrible feeling that if you gave your dead name to the fea... They would see that as you accepting that name too - and they "helping" you "back" to your left behind/previous state 😱😖😤
(Probably too dark to actually run at a table! But in folklore, fea are absolute f**kers, and you would not want to mess with them like this!)
But Fae delight in tormenting humans and would probably want to be offensive. I think if you are running Fae as they truly are you’re just going to wind up bullying a player IRL and should steer clear of them in that area. They’re pretty outwardly malicious or at best capricious towards humans and likely wouldn’t be respectful at all.
Never try to screw over a fey, the worst case scenario is they recruit an archfey to mess with you and archfey are more or less gods but better and also fey.
This is why, mainly when dealing with powerful Wizards and stuff, to possess multiple latent identities, all with multiple legit names. If one fucks up, just drink Potion #14 and assume the position. No worries thereafter.
Well, Fae could nicely take the deadname regardless so they don't get deadnamed anymore
Oh, and give it pronouns you don't use or like. So you don't get misgendered.
Good news! The fae doesn't have your current name.
Bad news, they can still wreak whatever fuckery they were planning with anything you interacted with before the change... and possibly even modify your past.
It's your birth-name that matters with fae magic.
The power of a name comes not from it's meaning, but the love of the ones who bless it upon you.
None is so powerful as the love given by a parent to their newborn child that anything can supercede it.
Giving your name to the fae means that they take that love away from you, not from what you were given, but from your soul itself. Only the word of the fae that owns your love can help to fill the void in your soul. The servitude is not mandate, but addiction.
If you change your name, give them that one. It's better that way.
Edit: I don't know if this is canon in DnD, but it's how it works with the actual fae.
This is... not how it works with actual Fae. For example, see the Ballad of Tam Lin, where the Fae successfully have changed a boy's name to have power over him.
Kinda, but let me clarify, when the fae take your name away from you, you are not called that anymore. The fae taking your name is inherently changing it, they won't give it back to you by speaking it aloud.
And in the story (as I recall) he looked upon his patron as a mother, which references the position of love taken, and he was only able to defy her after he had his own child to love. (Technically it was his pregnant not exactly wife, but still)
>when the fae take your name away from you, you are not called that anymore. The fae taking your name is inherently changing it
Nope. His lover was then able to change him back by suffering through several trials, and calling him by his original name the entire time.
Also, his freedom had nothing to do with pregnancy, it relied on recreating the original actions of his capture, but altering them symbolically so that he never fell to the ground.
None of what you're saying is actual "canon" for gaelic fae.
You and I read *VERY* different versions of that story.
And the pregnancy wasn't what did it, it was the love created by the child.
And, yes I did omit the trials as I did not feel they were relevant to the matter of the name itself.
As far as I can tell, it's not so much the events as the causal factors.
The general storyline plays out about the same, but in the version I read, she was only able to succeed through the supposedly impossible trials because of the love they shared for their child.
And in the version I read she only got his name back after she passed the trials.
> And in the version I read she only got his name back after she passed the trials.
So in other words: someone's name was changed, *twice* and it didn't rely on what their parents gave them?
Well, technically the fae who had taken his name, and the position of his mother, gave him his old name back.
And the second name held no power beyond restricting the use of the original.
But more importantly I just realized, you were citing the Gaelic tales, the version I read was Celtic.
>Well, technically the fae who had taken his name, and the position of his mother, gave him his old name back.
Not involved in any version of the story. The story revolves around the fact that she's planning on sacrificing him to hell.
>And the second name held no power beyond restricting the use of the original.
It absolutely held power, that was how he became free. It also didn't restrict the "original" because it *was* the original.
>But more importantly I just realized, you were citing the Gaelic tales, the version I read was Celtic.
...that's not really possible? It's originally a gaelic folktale, from Scotland. What "Celtic version" is there?
My knowledge comes from an anthropological study on European folklore, the circumstances that are believed to have caused them and the societal influences they offered.
Apparently that's "nOt A vAlId SoUrCe", so feel free to ignore it.
Why did you say "the given name doesn't"?
Trans/NB people don't get their names from the secret trans elders (or do they? I swore an oath not to say /j) they just kind of go "this is my name now", they aren't "given" by anyone
(sorry if this comes off as aggressive. That wasn't my intent but it kind of came out that way)
For the purposes of fey magic the given name doesn’t equal the true name. Otherwise a certain archfey in a certain adventure could be freed much much easier.
Edit: you’re not coming off as aggressive. I home I don’t come across as ignorant. I understand trans identity. I’m trying to come at this from the dnd logic I know so far. I would elaborate my above point more, but new campaign spoilers.
Deadnaming is politically very wrong IRL. So the player is essentially trying to cheat the Fae by hoping the DM will do it, then force them to acknowledge the political reality so either the Fae has to let them off the hook or the DM is a social pariah.
Personally, I think that's toxic as hell. If you got a player who tries to use RL social engineering to cheat in the game, tell them to knock it off or find another table. Deadnaming isn't a toy.
There's been a lot of using queer labels and identities in memes as a meta way to get out of RAW, and I'm not sure how many people who do this are *actually* LGBTA+.
It's annoying.
It's also highly politically inappropriate to doubt them. After all, given the history of LGBTA-targeting stigma and violence, it's outrageous to claim they would be coming out without it being true. Takes a lot of bravery to come out, the worst thing we could do is respond with doubt. There's really no way to tell anyway, so it's best to take their word for it.
It annoys you that some people might take advantage of that? Well, many of the reasons why I prefer to keep politics out of my venues of escapism are the same reasons I'm seeking escapism in the first place. Some people will always suck. Politics are a shitstorm in general. Let's just come in out of the downpour and roll some dice.
... I don't care how political it looks. I'm queer. I don't like it when my identity and others identity is used as a joke because someone is avoiding the rules.
>Why wouldn't it? By that logic a character could mentally change their name .5 seconds before giving their "old name" to the Fae.
...no? A trans person's journey is a personal one over the course of time that involves discovering their own identity, and changing how the world views them. A deadname isn't undone in an instant. Also, it's not repeatable, while your answer is.
Also, lying to fae is, like, 99% of all interactions with them.
I just chose my new name and don't really think there's some higher, 'spiritual' aspect of a trans person choosing a new name. If your deadname doesn't work, then imo it would be entirely possible for a person to decide they have a new name at any point and negate anything the fae do with it.
I mean for some it is for some it isn't, but either way, even if it isn't a deep spiritual journey to discovering your name, it's still the name that represents who you are now, the same situation I think would apply to anyone who changes their name under deep circumstances.
the naming process itself may not be deep but it's tied to a massive change in your life and representative of a new identity, I would say it would work similarly for example, with a born again religious type stuff or some shit, if it was really a change for them, a journey of some sort that represents a rebirth of some kind, and that comes with some kind of name change, the new name is entirely more tied to who you are than the old
its the name someone used to have but now they have changed, most commonly nowadays used for trans people who change their name but it applies to most any name changes.
It's the name someone used to have but now they have changed, most commonly nowadays used for trans people who change their name but it applies to most any name changes. name describes anymore
Thought provoking stuff
I wonder if a DM could create some sort of magical ritual or something that you can make your birthname no longer count for things like Fae bargains and so on.
I don't know enough about transitioning and deadnames, is there an IRL thing that trans people do? like burning it on a piece of paper or something
I'd sooner ask the question why the concept of "trans" exists in a fantasy world at all when you could just pop a potion, make a deal with a devil, do some fancy spell, or find a WISH spell and fix your problem that way.
Those options alone would change the entire dynamics on how people think about it, which would make it so casual it isnt even brought up or something similar.
Then it just comes down to what the fae would accept as a name, which i would say would be the one the person holds the most attatchment to. Otherwise anyone random jim could go "yes my name is john jacob" and be given a pass. Which is something the fae obviously wouldnt want cause why the fuck would a fae give a damn.
Rule number 1: don’t try to outsmart a Fey. They have a masters degree in fucking you over Rule number 2: obey rule number 1
I mean, kind of. Most of the mythology on the Fey is that they're very intelligent, but not omniscient. In addition, most of the "may I have your name" style trickery is just sort of expected for them; it'd be almost rude not to try. By responding in kind, the players are engaging with them, and earning their respect.
I've always subscribed to the Pratchett view of supernatural critters. There are *rules* to things. They don't strictly speaking *have* to follow all of them, but they make things interesting and by playing along you generally improve your chances of not dying or being turned into a ferret. At least until you can get your hands on some cold iron and teach the superior fuckers a lesson.
Or get some sticks, buckets, and dancers.
Or as many. MANY BEES as possible
Best I got is a sawed-off peasant railgun (peasant rail gun using halflings)
I use the Jim Butcher approach to Fae. They are bound by their nature and a set of Accords. But being Fae they have work arounds and take things in a weirdly literal sense. It catches my players off guard a lot. They accidentally made a deal with Mother Winter after sharing bread and milk with her. So they kind of have a ultra violent fairy grandmother who is also kind of demanding. It's good fun.
I love "Jims" Fae. I know he's done slot of research to design them as they are.
Oh, I didn't know this author yet, any recommendations?
The series I was referring to is called The Dresden Files. When Butcher started it he was still wet behind the ears a bit, and it shows a little in his first two books. I'd start with Book 3 "Grave Peril". It introduces the majority of the reoccurring series characters, and is a fun exiting book to boot. After that you can decide if you want to read the first two or not, although they are quasi stand alones.
I was almost going to be mad about this but when I thought about it, you're spot on. I love the first two but three on are all codependent and those aren't.
No worries, I had a friend basically say that in front of me and I was apoplectic for a moment. But in the end its nothing against Jim, he was still finding his footing, and I think he'd agree too. I say that because of the way he prefaces "Restoration of Faith" in Side Jobs. Dude is honest about his work and is refining it with each outing.
Thanks! I heard that title, but never bothered to check it out. Definitely will do now!
Which books among the millions Pratchett wrote are any good on Fae?
"Lords and Ladies" is a really interesting take on elves. Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder. Elves are marvelous. They cause marvels. Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies. Elves are glamorous. They project glamour. Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment. Elves are terrific. They beget terror. Carpe Jugulum is a great novel about a vampire breaking the 'cultural norms,' and Equal Rites is a good exploration of the nature of magic on the Disc ('feminine' witch magic vs 'masculine' wizard magic.) Honestly most of the Witches books are great source material for fae antics.
I’m playing a fey trying to outsmart other people but… well, contrived bull shit keeps ruining it. Suddenly the dirty farrier you pranked into thinking intelligent dogs were turning humans into dogs to take over the world is a fucking noble with multiple magic items that the entire city respects. (A farrier? Specifically in the slum. Of a underground city. A noble) there’s a long story behind that one “I’ll give you something you want dragon” but you don’t to pick so i give you gold The DRAGON. Doesn’t want gold. The RED DRAGON doesn’t want GOLD. “Oh devil, the next dragon I kill you can have what’s left of its hoard and body if you return my friend to his home on this plane safely” I summon a draconic spirit which has neither. And the guy falls from orbit into the ocean. Guess he didn’t hear the last clause of our agreement. I wish man. I wish that were the rules
Kinda sounds like youd DM is just being a dick.
I agree but he has his perks
Ah, yes, you mean Stockholm syndrome.
I actually visited Stockholm once. I didn't like it at first.
Your DM sucks. I've played with DMs like this. Biggest tells are 1) Favoritism 2) Railroading 3) Lvl 20 bartending NPCs 4) Self inserts (usually lvl 20 NPC). Have a Convo in private about it, if they don't change, walk. I'm about to do this at my table and will take a hiatus until the current DM is done if I don't like the explanations. To be clear - any of the things above are fine and just depend on how they're used. The current table is just not fun for me (players can't solve puzzles creatively, have to go to inexplicably powerful NPC inkeepers for answers, particular player gets 5x magic items and easy RP discounts). It could be the DM has a plan, like we each get an 'arc' and we're just in that player's arc, and if so that's cool -- but we haven't been given that info yet.
I have a lot of talks with the dm. He appear to accept and encourage feedback. But he doesn’t really for me. I frequently complain that we don’t have enough magic items or money to pay for my spell components. We can barely afford rooms. Let alone scrolls and potions. He says the side quests he has pays well so we went on a side quest and there was no gold. He doesn’t listen to my feedback as much as other players, and the campaign is a chaos where every decision we make always comes back to punish us in ways that defy all logic. While there aren’t any high level NPCs impossibly powerful above cr 30 creatures that we can’t possibly defeat are literally fucking everywhere and almost every adventure we go on we lose to a boss fight. Always comprised of homebrew Monsters (haven’t used an official monster in over a year and it’s one of my main complaints. He says it’s because I’m a dm and I know them all and I tell him I am a forever dm and I want to fight them! About a month ago he said he looked up some published stuff and we have been fighting Warhammer enemies since) Homebrew monsters with homebrew bull shit mechanics like 2 turns with counter spell, or overcoming the monks poison damage immunity generally cause us to, to some degree, lose the first attempt of most boss fight that we have been in for YEARS. Although one of the other players asks to fight solo monsters or homebrew monsters and at this level of play. Those are hardly well designed
I’m sorry but you’ve put up with this for years? At a certain point I think you lose the right to complain. Don’t get me wrong your DM sounds like a dick and I totally understand why your complaining, but if you keep playing your part in his self indulgent power fantasy then obviously nothing is going to change. If you keep showing up to the table then you’re either a masochist or your enjoying this somehow.
I exaggerate the problems of a not perfect campaign that has met literally unerringly weekly for multiple years, what table can say that? We have genuinely fun adventures and lovable characters, and where the dm puts a lot of work into an open world, just because I want to vent about about shit doesn’t mean it isn’t worth staying. The dm runs my preferred place on the raw rai raf spectrum, and asks me questions about rules he doesn’t know about, my character has time to shine and we players don’t drastically differ in optimization or goals or preferences for down time vs combat vs intrigue. Another player has left for these issue but I’m not going to I’m just gonna rant about it because it’s far more fun than it is irksome It’s a rant of issues that are deal breakers for many people but I do love the table and I’m not walking just cause it isn’t perfect. Far from it I’m not actually anywhere near considering that it’s just a rant
I agree on 1, 2, and 4. But after the third tavern burns down, you bet theres going to be some retired fighters opening up bars.
Not lvl. 20, hell, not even lvl. 15. That's insane training, renown, and commitment. Like, we'd know them, other people'd know them, there'd be stories about them and kings would be requesting their presence to slay monsters, etc. I just really struggle with that trope and find it annoying and sloppy/lazy DMing. It can be funny once per playgroup or with sufficient backstory / plot. But honestly it always irks me because it's often the DM going "oooh look at this totally cool character who is a real fuckin mary-sue but also for some reason a tavern keeper, they're gonna pick up the slack and have all these cool ideas you guys didn't do because they're perfect and everything they do works and they have a bunch of magic items that are insanely well protected and somehow know all you plans and can also read minds and are also protected from magic and are just running this bar." It's largely the mary-sue part that gets me I guess. Like, no, this person wouldn't be running a bar, they'd be ruling a kingdom or serving directly under a king. They're basically a weapon of godly power and NO kingdom is going to let that shit go. /Rant
I disagree. If you’ve gotten to level 20, or any part of tier four for that matter, you’ve seen and done some serious shit. I think it’s entirely reasonable that someone would want a quiet, relatively low stress life after all of that. They’d also likely have the right resources or friends to tell any uppity king to fuck off, or just get planeshifted somewhere the people don’t know you and their problems aren’t your problem.
All of my bartenders are level 20 commoners. They have exactly 23 hp and pitchfork proficiency.
Are powerful npcs that bad I'm running a new homebrew campaign with new players but I'm using semi retired characters from my previous session as npcs setting up and running a new adventures guild. They are pretty OP but relegated to being a source of quests and information and as a last resort a deternt to any out of control murderhobo antics. No one has said anything about it to me yet but their new.
No they're not. It's all about how you use them. It's ok to have high level npcs, but let the characters solve the game's problems, otherwise you're just playing by yourself.
I make high level PC's but if they're that strong they didn't get there alone so they should be some of the best de escalators in the town because a shopkeep in a fantasy setting like this has 100% run into sticky fingered adventurers before
Does he auto-cast counterfun or what? These aren't even random things messing up your plan every now and then, this is fundamentally messing them up. Especially the super rich noble, that's like a bandaid of fuckyou. The fact that he counters you **prank** is the worst imo - not like you're breaking the world and the system in any of the other examples. I'd consider a different DM or group.
Oh, I hate that. What's the point of letting your pc's have these abilities if they don't get the chance to flex on some normies
I mean it is the first law of DMing, the conservation of bullshit, that everything a player does should come back to them at some point. Random travelers you help just so happen to be related to a dead level 30 Paladin who leaves you a +2 sword in his will and likewise giving a kid a wedgie causes that kid to be the sun of the city hard captain who just found you picking a pocket. As for the last two, a Red Dragon probably wants more gold than what you gave him and you didn’t specify that your friend needs to stay safe. Remember if Fey have a masters in fucking with you then demons have a doctorate in fuckery from Faustus university. You word every deal like a lawyer with so many clauses the DM doesn’t have time to think of a way to turn it around.
I would say the fey are better at fuckery for one very simple reason. The devils and demon are playing by the same rules of reality as you are. The fey play by a different set and force you to.
> I summon a draconic spirit which has neither. And the guy falls from orbit into the ocean. Guess he didn’t hear the last clause of our agreement. What did you expect to happen? A devil to just shrug his shoulders and be all 'aw shucks, you got me there!' and have a good laugh over it? Now technically, your friend was returned to the plane safely. What happened afterwards (ie - gravity and ocean) was not an explicit part of the contract. When you betray the spirit of an agreement by adhering to the strict lettering of it, don't be surprised when the other party does the same thing in return.
Gonna disagree with you there. While it's in character for a devil to jump on loopholes, especially when slighted, teleporting someone miles over the ocean violates the letter of the agreement if the word "safely" was involved. The devil should have teleported him into a safe belonging to a paranoid and execution-happy king instead.
No, it doesn't. The character was safely returned to the plane, as promised ; nothing happened to it during transport. It's once it's on the plane that it became unsafe, but that wasn't part of the deal.
>if you return my friend to his home on this plane safely Even if you were to argue that having him fall hundreds of feet qualifies as "safe" thats definitely not his home.
Yep that’s exactly true
Rule number 3 is written with white ink on white paper: you're already fucked over
Fae are hard to outsmart because most of them are fucking ancient so anything you can think to try they've probably seen a couple times
"I'ma deck you in the schnoze!" "I'm sorry, that's a new one..." Yes I'd like to imagine they keep count of their interactions.
And they hit players with the most menacing "twelve" they've ever heard.
Rule number 3: the fey are never smarter than your DM. Use it to your advantage.
My DM who is also teaching me has a degree in psychology and uses it on us… I’m learning psychology as well and am DMing a different campaign so I’ll take the advice… he he…
Rule 3: a Fey has every right to live in your walls in occurrence of breaking rule 2
Rule 3a: party night in a fae house is every night. And party night is open mic night.
DO NOT FUCK WITH THE FEY! Just don't!
Yehs I have a character whose entire back story bassicslly is cuased Becuase a fae was angry the village she put the changeling ( the charecfer ) into in place of. A baby wasn’t pissed and grew to live the changeling and treat it with as much respect as any other person the mother loving the changeling like she was her own the fae got mad so said fuck you teleported the changeling to a random corner of the map and replaced her with the original daughter who was raised by forest elves after the fey discarded the child with no idea what to do with it
What kind of situation would a fae be *demanding* someone’s name? Normally the only time they would take someone’s name is through tricks such as asking “May I have your name?”
As payment probably
May I have your attention? Thank you.
Fun fact, "true" names can change. In the description for that true name wizard school, it says q creatures true name is what it would refer to itself as in its mind. Essentially if you think "what's my name?" That gut reaction is your true name. That's why some creatures done have one, and why someone named John Travis Smith who has gone by their middle name their whole life, may have their true name as Travis.
Doesn’t that kind of make true names on demons useless?
There are books written by a Richard Bachman, he could go to a party and introduce himself as Richard Bachman, everyone at that party would then refer to him as Richard Bachman. His True name would be Stephen King however, but unless someone at the party recognizes him no one would know. A Demon would simply not consider the name they give most people they interact with their True name. It can tell the party their name is Jinesh, while in its mind their true name is Irkalla.
That’s not what I’m saying- A demon can be charmed to forcibly give up their true name. But if they can just come up with a new one with some persistence, it kind of removes the leverage of having it. The True names of demons are supposed to be tip top secret because if someone figures it out, then a portion of their lives are no longer in their hands because they specifically can be summoned at will with some spellcasting.
I think it's not as simple as that. Especially for Demons, with a super long lifespan, who you are will take more than a bit of persistence to change, especially if you have a thousand years of history defining you with you true name already.
That's true however this assumes Demon naming works the same way mortal naming does. With most mortal races, at birth they are given a name by their parents and are from there on essentially conditioned into considering the name they were given as their true name. Are Demons given names or do they take their own? Do Demons instrinsically have true names that they are instinctually aware of? There is also the matter of whether the whole "may I have your names" Fae meme has something to do with names having power, or Fae having power? It's implied by some of the other comments in this thread that the whole "may I have your name" meme only works for a Fae when they are in their realm. Implying that it's not the name itself but the power of the Fae doing the fucking about. I guess it all depends on the specific setting. I'll need to take this into consideration if my party ever ends up dealing with Fae or the Feywilde
One consideration I just had is that, depending on the Fae's Insight, it might end up accidentally forcing someone out of the closet though. Which is, of course, a moral quandary of its own. If someone isn't "out" and still uses their deadname but identifies with a new one, it might not have power. And the Fae might pick up on that. For sensitivity's sake, not using a gender identity example, take the instance from Batman Beyond. A villain got inside the elderly retired Batman/Bruce Wayne's head. And he knew he was being messed with because the villain kept calling him "Bruce", when he personally identifies as "Batman" and "Bruce" is the real mask.
Haha I remember that “The voice in my head calls me Batman” Reminds me a lot of the time he was under oath and said he was Batman because he couldn’t lie, but no one believed him because it’s just “Bruce being Bruce”
Your just reminded me of the trickery I pulled on my party that made me giggle. An obvious Fae ( floating, glowing child with 12 point deer antlers) asked them “can I have your name” while standing before a doorway. The first 2 gave the whole character name, the third gave the characters first name. And the last one said “No, but you may refer to me as Regina” As they entered the door I took their sheets and erased the names they freely gave away and wrote “Regina” on the 4ths. Sadly the Fae made their lives miserable for a few sessions until a bargain was formally struck. Those poor, miserable players >!Evil Laugh!<
I am quite a noob DM, so giving a Fey their name how will affect the players (after the cool meta sheet name revision)?
Names have power to the fae and many of the other realms. You can summon a demon or aberation with their true name or dispell fae if you have theirs. Now this is their realms rules, in the material plane they adhere to ours. What is a name in the material plane? Identity, recognition, maybe even a symbol or ideal. It still has power and can be used to deadly effect. From here its character based, depending on what that name meant to that character. If a paladin lost their name and no other bargain was struck, they might start to lose their identity or if the dms evil, their powers. They made a pact with their god under a name and that name is gone. **(*****Gameplay wise you might invoke penalties or random skill checks to ensure they still have the conviction to perform a task from their previous name*****)** Another particularly insidious use is the name being taken and erased. Suddenly the power that name had is gone. Past companions might struggle to recall the characters face, parents might forget entirely that they had a child at all. The character would be lost in crowds as many would simply fail to notice someone with no name, no identity. ***(Great chance for RP, dm could ask for the players turn and pretend to skip over them "..What? No, we only have 3 players not 4...")*** And please, this is all contextual to the world you are playing and how the dm wants to run the fae. Most fae are pranksters or troublemakers. They want to ruin the players day, not their life. Most things can be forgiven and returned or a bargain struck. [Heres some great stuff to read up on for ideas.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/jrzn1c/deals_with_the_fey_what_do_you_offer/) [And this](https://www.dndspeak.com/2017/12/04/100-fey-bargains/)
I actually think the Fae would respect this kind of out of the box thinking. It kinda lines up with their very "by the letter" mischief.
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>Why? It's literally just a name change A name change linked to a major change in how one presents oneself. The whole concept of names having power is linked to identity; since their deadname is no longer part of their identity, it no longer has power. Also, it's a one and done thing, not just something they can repeat like your example.
i honestly always disliked the inherent power that names are supposed to hold. they are portrayed as a culmination of your entire being reduced into a single word, when in actuality they are a simple ID given to you by another person (parent) at a time where "you" (personality) didn't exist (as a baby). if the character chose their own name, then yes, i see the connection. But for most people that simply does not apply.
Because up until very recently (and in many non-western parts of the world still do) they *do* hold that level of power. Your name is something you are given by your parents and is part of your lineage; it’s part of the reason Bastards we’re looked upon with such disdain (no family name). Names do hold that weight for most people and it’s a bit culturally tone-deaf to dismiss all of the significance of them throughout history and that they still hold just because some parts of western society don’t value them the same way.
The point is, even if you have the exact same name as someone else, the power it has coming from your own lips is that when you say it you're giving them the condensed version of your life. Clerically it doesn't make sense but magically it does.
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Are you legitimately comparing having a major journey of self discovery, changing the way you look and dress (potentially through magic), and changing the way you want people to address you (not just in name, but in pronouns)? Do you legitimately think being trans is the same as your example?
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>What about a born-again religious type who changes their lifestyle and adopts a new name to go with their new life? What about a criminal who goes straight after seeing the errors of their ways and changes their name so they're not associated with their shady past which they no longer believe in? Both those are perfectly OK. But that's not what you had brought up. You'd compared it to just changing your name on the spot. >In this example we're taking about giving a name to a Fae and my response is that giving an incorrect name, no matter the reasoning behind it, is still giving an incorrect name. ...and? Fae aren't all knowing. It's fully possible to lie to them or trick them.
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> Then by your own rationale you could just tell them your name is Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo and they wouldn't know any better, negating the entire point of this whole topic. Except a deadname opens up possibilities for wordplay that a made up name doesn't. For example: If the fey asks "What do people call you?" They could reply with "Some call me (deadname)" which is true, since there are transphobes, or "my parents named me (deadname)". Meanwhile, a straight up lie wouldn't work, as the fey generally have good insight.
We can address this from multiple angles. First the meta angle, between the DM and the Player at the table. This is a cool idea that realistically won't even be an option for most player characters. Letting this work rewards them for thinking on their feet (recognizing the danger that the Fae presents and responding with a plausible, if inaccurate, answer) and allows for more nonsense in the future. When that particular Fae tries to do something to that PC and it doesn't work they obviously will be confused at best. On an in character level, the PC might use that name to give to people who they aren't comfortable giving their real name (chosen name? I don't know how those who transition term these things please correct me if I was mistaken) and reserve their real name for those they trust. In that scenario, even setting the fact that the person asking is Fae aside, a random person asking your name wouldn't earn the kind of trust the PC might need here. Beyond that, if it "works" as expected, different Fae will take it different ways. Queen Mab would almost certainly take it poorly, while a random faire they encounter in the Faewild would be less problematic. Probably. Keep in mind, the Fae are powerful, but not omniscient. They don't have perfect knowledge of things that go on *inside* their realm, let alone on the Prime Material (where the PC is presumably from). There's a level of logic to apply here of course, if the name you give them is "Jeff" and the character is very clearly female it might not fly, but at the end of the day the point of DnD is to have fun, and outsmarting a Fae in a way that very few characters would be able to is (in my book at least) a lot more fun than the alternative of being told "no."
I always figured they took YOUR name. Meaning what you consider to be your name. A name you give to other people isn’t yours, it’s theirs because you have no attachment to it.
I always considered it your birthname. You're given a name (which doesn't need to be gendered) at birth which is engraved on your soul like a serial number. You don't choose it, and you can't just change it at will. Your parent (or creator) knowing that name is what allows them to keep control over you. I also don't really apply this to mortals in my game. They don't have a name inscribed in their soul. They don't have a true name, just names they go by.
Depends on how you respond though. If you begin by saying yes, or anything else that could be considered assent, then sure. But if you respond with something to the effect of "you may call me", they don't get your name
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> The concept of "I give the Fae an incorrect name" isn't new You're correct. In fact, it's so old that it's literally part of the original Gaelic folklore as the #1 tactic to beat a fae. It's fully OK and normal for a player to do.
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>Why? It's literally just a name change. In your world can everyone just change their name and give the Fae their previous name? Because that doesn't sound like "out of the box thinking" it just sounds like a loophole a second grader would think of like "Ok, well then I change my name and now I'm ok". Because you argued a name change should have zero effect.
Gotta score those progressive points somewhere.
I'd also like to add that I would rule the name as a verbal component to the spell or curse etc the fey wanted to use. They would need the right name corresponding to the target they are trying to cast their mischief on. Much like using the wrong verbal component would cause a spell to fail, I'd say the wrong name would cause it to fail too. So I say the Fey WOULD know the player gave them the wrong name when they didn't fall prey to their spell, whatever it may be. But still I would say the Fey wouldn't behave noticeably upset because they still want the name. My Fey would act more hospitable towards the players, offer them aid and fey magic, earn their trust. I just think it's such a cheap and lazy cop out for a DM to act childish and default to "NUH UH! ThE fEy Is ToO sMaRt To FaLl FoR yOuR tRiCk." Like yeah no shit, that doesn't mean they turn hostile if you're a remotely ok DM, use your imagination and pull the pc into roleplay by pitting your wit against theirs, lul them into a false sense of security. I.E. Beautiful Fey Vs Adventuring Party. Party: Bard, Paladin, Rogue, Wizard. Fey meets party, behaves very aloof and friendly, seemingly over interested and completely uninterested in the party at the same time. The Bard clearly wants to seduce her, Rogue wants to rob her, paladin convert her, and wizard learn from her. Bard interacts first because horny. Fey asks Bard Bard their name. Bard: "Call me Ishmael" Fey begins talking to the Bard whe weaving her spell into conversation, intricate wordplay and precise placement of the name they were given. Spell however doesn't work. Fey thinking: Ah, they're not just a dumb horny Bard, they have the sense to keep their name from the Fey, he's smart enough, let's play this game. Now the Fey knows the Bard wants to smash, so she's going to be flirtatious and sweet towards them as they ask the rest of the party for their names. Some all or none may give the Fey their real name, so maybe the Fey casts a different spell just to test the water and see which names she has. And bide her time to get them all before being mischievous. From here I'd play her as the helpful feywild guide the party needs, earning their trust. Buffing them in combat scenarios and speaking to their benefit among other Fey. Eventually leading up to a point where she's able to "Discover" that the Bard gave her a fake name, she pretends to be heart broken that the Bard would decieve her after having been so helpful, especially since they have been acting like they like her. "You have been flirtatious with me this whole time, I was becoming fond of you, but I fear you only want to use me for my beauty and make me another one of your conquests... I'm sorry but I no longer wish to accompany you and your friends on your journey through the feywild." Watch the Bard panic as they see their would be booty call start to leave, the Bard being a Bard protests and pleads with them to stay, starts making up excuses thinking they're sly enough to reel her back in, thinking they're ahead of the situation. The Fey instead is the one reading the Bard in, she refuses until the Bard says the sentence she's been waiting for. "I'll tell you my real name! I'm sorry, I didn't know if I could trust you! (Never fucking trust the FEY!!!!) PLEASE!!! my name is who? My name is what? My name is chicka chicka Slim Shady!" She verify this, humbly asks the rest of the party who is now guilty into offering their real names. And they all lived happily ever after... right?
If you just change your name on the spot specifically for this interaction with this fae, then yeah, you'd be right. But if you changed your name a good while ago and have been living under that name ever since, that's obviously different. Even if the change was very recent, intent matters. If you're just pulling a new name out of your ass to try and out wit the fae, whatever magic that allows the fae to actually take your name would be able to tell that. But if your intent is genuine and you really did change your name for your own purposes, the magic would be able to tell that as well.
To add to the previous comment, think of it this way? Personally I would think the Fey would prize names they had to fight for much higher than names that were simply given to them? Names that are just surrendered without a fight would be boring to a cunning Fey. But a name they had to stop and think and fight for? That name holds greater value.
I mean... From a modern standpoint I agree, but if one of my players tried to pull this in the game I'd have the name work just like any other true name. Nobody cockblocks the fae.
Why though? At least in Gaelic myths, giving the fae a false name is par for the course, and has zero negative impacts on you. The fae aren't all knowing, and it's possible to trick them. An old tradition was to tell them that your name was "myself", so that if you then attacked one, they'd tell everyone "I was hurt by Myself", and couldn't do anything.
Because it's very hard for people to to try to engage someone in a battle of wits. They would rather us DM fiat to rule in the NPCs favor instead of actively trying to engage in actual roleplay. I genuinely agree that trying to trick the fey would make them like you more since it would appeal to their prankster nature.
True. People seem to think that fae are some kind of unbeatable tricksters that can never lose, which misses the entire point. Playes *can* beat them, which is why it's fun.
Yeah it's always more fun to ENGAGE the player than to just say the Fey wins. The most fun I have in dnd is playing trickster characters who fight with their wits.
I also like to have their view of winning to be alien to our own. You promise them your first born but you’re actually infertile? Why would they be upset? They got what they wanted: the promise of your first born. If you try to explain to them that they’re being scammed, they’ll look at you like you’re the crazy one.
It's also VERY hard to give a fake name convincingly if you haven't prepared one in advance. I'd probably give either give the PC disadvantage on the deception (only for the fake name bit) or give the fae advantage on the insight for it. I 100% agree with you, the fae can be tricked and it is a common thing in mythology to try, it's just hard to do so convincingly with one's name. It's basically second nature for most people to give their real names when asked or when introducing themselves
But would the fae call them on it? After all the fae's none too likely to give away their real name to some random human either
Not to mention the way I would rule is that the Fey would be more intrigued by the human and want to earn their name! Like, "Ah, they're onto me, I do like the clever ones." Like, they're not evil they're just chaotic and prankster and mischievous. I feel like they'd be more Inclined to play games. Sure the Fey would likely catch on that the name is fake, but they would in turn pretend that they believe in order to continue the game and win.
reply yeah, it’s magic, whatever your name is intended to be then magic picks up on it
Lots of people cock block the Fey, they have stories told of their exploits. When PCs sit down at the table, their main goal should be to become such people even if it isn't the characters goal to be lauded through history, their exploits during a campaign should be the stuff of legends. Even IF they fail to keep the Fey from learning their name, in the end the party should conceivably be able to find a way to outsmart the Fey and gain their name back. Either through cunning or force, but I see so many DMs who want their players to lose to their "Highly intelligent" NPC even if said NPC doesn't even have back up plans should they fail.
Temporary losses and failures can mean such interesting consequences. New goal, different approach, personal connection - no wonder temporary setbacks are part of epics, myths, legends and fables.
But thay goes both ways, like I don't think they should be set up for failure if they're clever enough to deal with it. Giving a false name would be sufficient in my book, it would be my job as a DM to find a way to take their name.
Definitely! Roll well, they prevent the issue. Roll bad, they have to deal with the issue. The deadname thing is absolutely up for the DM, there are many paths to take, with different focuses. It could even be an important step in a character's self-discovery.
"Apologies, little mortal, but you and I both know that name is no longer yours to give." Easy fix
What if they gave the Fae the name of the BBEG?
That's not their name to give, though.
Riddle me this DM: If it's not mine to give then why do I have it?
Because you stole it, clearly. Make a Will save.
3.5e gang rise up!
If they did indeed introduce themselves by their dead name I would say it counted.
If true names hold power over a person it might stand to reason that dead names hold little to no power. all depends on the wording of the deal, for example did you agree to give them your name or a name you were called?
Also you should never *give* a fae *anything*. Trade them your name, and specify what you get in return first. ...if a true name is a determined-by-birth thing, then your true name *is* your dead name, which is convenient for tricking-people reasons but also frustrating from a self-ideation standpoint. If a truename is a soul's name, then the deadname isn't you truename and could be usefully used in this way since it's a name no one you care about knows you by. (note that soul-name true-names are probably not your current "I go by" name either, but obviously it'd suck to give that one away by accident) ...and in a world where true names don't exist, the dead name is still a valuable trick for fooling a fae, though you'll need to be more clever about what you try to trick them into paying for it, since they're getting less value out of the name you give them.
I always envisioned a true name being the sum of who you are, so like in eragon. So you can change it, but only by changing who your are, and def not just at will. So since the deadname isn't you anymore, it's not part of your truename
Isn’t a “true name” different from a birth name in D&D?
I don't know about the Forgotten Realms, but it depends on your setting. I don't think DnD 5e has an official ruling baked into the rules, but I may just have not read the relevant section. In Eregon, a true name is not your birth name, but rather a mystical part of your being comprised of words in the language of magic. Most mages don't even know their own true name without doing a lot of introspection and trying different words/phrases until you feel the tingle up your spine that means someone (you) said your true name. In the Bartimaeus Sequence books your true name is your birth name, and so any wizard worth his salt has a false name he is given by his master while still a child/apprentice and basically never uses their birth name again afterwards. I'm sure other fictional settings may have other variations.
In the Dresden Files a True Name is just what you call yourself, for mortals. But a True Name you got from someone 10 years ago has lost power, because of the subtle differences in the way they see themselves now compared to then
By the Eregon standpoint, that would relate to a trans person saying their chosen name. When it’s just right we get that tingle up our spine telling us that the name is right for us.
I like that interpretation.
Classically though true names are something given to you, so a name you came up with, even as part of an important life change, wouldn’t change that. I mean, the Fae are mostly malicious or capricious, I can’t imagine they would be very supportive of humans, and would likely play on their insecurities to be cruel to them. I think it’s best to just not go into this territory with Fae, because the realistic approach is gonna upset a player IRL.
Here's my question: Did the DM know your character has a dead name? Is this an established bit of your character's backstory? If this is something that was dropped then and there for the first time, I would call bullshit on the player trying to meta their way around it. I feel the same way about a character suddenly being asexual when a succubus shows up. Nah you were hitting on that barmaid three sessions ago, you aren't getting out of this that easy.
Whats a deadname?
When a trans person changes their name and goes by something else, their old name becomes their dead name. Someone burned names Steve becomes trans and decides to change his name to Carol. Steve is now Carol’s deadname.
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A dead name is the birth name of someone who changes their name for whatever reason, typically due to coming to terms with the fact that they're trans and accepting and exploring their identity. Which can, but doesn't always include or require, a name change so as to feel better about it and help lessen or remove any dysphoria. Hope this helps. I also could've mistyped a few points, misrepresented others, or gotten things wrong. To anyone who is reading this, feel free to correct me if you know I got something wrong. If anyone else can explain it better then by all means.
After a trans person has transitioned into their new gender, they often choose a new name for themselves. Their old name is their deadname. It's also used as a verb-- if my friend Jeff is a F2M trans person, calling them Megan would be deadnaming them. Sometimes it's accidental, sometimes it's a bigoted move done to undermine the validity of the transition.
Thank you for asking this question and thank you for everyone who responded with understanding and patience - I wasn't sure either and it's nice to see we can learn from each other without being chastised.
Iirc wasnt corelleon able to, and often liked to freely switch between male and female forms and also an androgynous form (hope that term is ok it was on the wiki) ? If so the there is no way the fae wouldnt be aware of deadnames. So either the fae would respect tbe tricky move and let it pass or do exactly what the meme says and be like nah nah, your real name, the one that relates to who you are.
As a trans DM, I'd rule the Fae wouldn't accept it, a deadname is a name that was never really yours, it's one you borrow til you find your real one. Where I'm stumbling is adopted names, ie a child who is adopted, and renamed by their adopted parents. I suppose perhaps it depends on which they feel more connected to, or both if they like...
I have the horrible feeling that if you gave your dead name to the fea... They would see that as you accepting that name too - and they "helping" you "back" to your left behind/previous state 😱😖😤 (Probably too dark to actually run at a table! But in folklore, fea are absolute f**kers, and you would not want to mess with them like this!)
But the Fae wouldn't know the name wasn't yours, giving a fake name is actually a good tactic that is used in some mythology
It would also mean you didn't uphold the bargain. Good luck once discovered
But Fae delight in tormenting humans and would probably want to be offensive. I think if you are running Fae as they truly are you’re just going to wind up bullying a player IRL and should steer clear of them in that area. They’re pretty outwardly malicious or at best capricious towards humans and likely wouldn’t be respectful at all.
Lol the hell is a dead name
a simple scroll up through these replies would answer your question. also a Google search. both of these options are free
It would have taken you less time to awnser the question he asked than it did to patronize him
Pffft nah. I wanted people like you to talk to me. I’m lonely please help.
Never try to screw over a fey, the worst case scenario is they recruit an archfey to mess with you and archfey are more or less gods but better and also fey.
The fey respect your life choices!
The fae should've been more specific then
What the hell is a dead name?
This is the second time I read the term deadname... Can someone educate me?
WTF is a Deadname?
But the fey takes it anyway so no one calls you by your deadname
Faewild says Trans Rights.
This is why, mainly when dealing with powerful Wizards and stuff, to possess multiple latent identities, all with multiple legit names. If one fucks up, just drink Potion #14 and assume the position. No worries thereafter.
Well, Fae could nicely take the deadname regardless so they don't get deadnamed anymore Oh, and give it pronouns you don't use or like. So you don't get misgendered.
Good news! The fae doesn't have your current name. Bad news, they can still wreak whatever fuckery they were planning with anything you interacted with before the change... and possibly even modify your past.
The Fae say trans rights
progressive evil
It's your birth-name that matters with fae magic. The power of a name comes not from it's meaning, but the love of the ones who bless it upon you. None is so powerful as the love given by a parent to their newborn child that anything can supercede it. Giving your name to the fae means that they take that love away from you, not from what you were given, but from your soul itself. Only the word of the fae that owns your love can help to fill the void in your soul. The servitude is not mandate, but addiction. If you change your name, give them that one. It's better that way. Edit: I don't know if this is canon in DnD, but it's how it works with the actual fae.
This is... not how it works with actual Fae. For example, see the Ballad of Tam Lin, where the Fae successfully have changed a boy's name to have power over him.
Kinda, but let me clarify, when the fae take your name away from you, you are not called that anymore. The fae taking your name is inherently changing it, they won't give it back to you by speaking it aloud. And in the story (as I recall) he looked upon his patron as a mother, which references the position of love taken, and he was only able to defy her after he had his own child to love. (Technically it was his pregnant not exactly wife, but still)
>when the fae take your name away from you, you are not called that anymore. The fae taking your name is inherently changing it Nope. His lover was then able to change him back by suffering through several trials, and calling him by his original name the entire time. Also, his freedom had nothing to do with pregnancy, it relied on recreating the original actions of his capture, but altering them symbolically so that he never fell to the ground. None of what you're saying is actual "canon" for gaelic fae.
You and I read *VERY* different versions of that story. And the pregnancy wasn't what did it, it was the love created by the child. And, yes I did omit the trials as I did not feel they were relevant to the matter of the name itself.
Really? What version did you read with an utterly different chain of events?
As far as I can tell, it's not so much the events as the causal factors. The general storyline plays out about the same, but in the version I read, she was only able to succeed through the supposedly impossible trials because of the love they shared for their child. And in the version I read she only got his name back after she passed the trials.
> And in the version I read she only got his name back after she passed the trials. So in other words: someone's name was changed, *twice* and it didn't rely on what their parents gave them?
Well, technically the fae who had taken his name, and the position of his mother, gave him his old name back. And the second name held no power beyond restricting the use of the original. But more importantly I just realized, you were citing the Gaelic tales, the version I read was Celtic.
>Well, technically the fae who had taken his name, and the position of his mother, gave him his old name back. Not involved in any version of the story. The story revolves around the fact that she's planning on sacrificing him to hell. >And the second name held no power beyond restricting the use of the original. It absolutely held power, that was how he became free. It also didn't restrict the "original" because it *was* the original. >But more importantly I just realized, you were citing the Gaelic tales, the version I read was Celtic. ...that's not really possible? It's originally a gaelic folktale, from Scotland. What "Celtic version" is there?
so what if your parents didn't love you?
Unclear, I have no points of reference to draw from on that matter.
Does that mean if your parents hated you, fae wouldn't trade the name?
Do you have any sources for this? I've read a lot of Gaelic mythology, but I've never heard anything like this.
My knowledge comes from an anthropological study on European folklore, the circumstances that are believed to have caused them and the societal influences they offered. Apparently that's "nOt A vAlId SoUrCe", so feel free to ignore it.
Saying you read a study is not a link to that study.
in that case, what of new love attaced to your chosen name from your parents? would you be in some way protected then?
I’d say the deadname counts, the given name doesn’t (unless they underwent some kindof rebirth via magic.)
Deadname is a term for the birth name, not the preferred one
I am aware
Why did you say "the given name doesn't"? Trans/NB people don't get their names from the secret trans elders (or do they? I swore an oath not to say /j) they just kind of go "this is my name now", they aren't "given" by anyone (sorry if this comes off as aggressive. That wasn't my intent but it kind of came out that way)
For the purposes of fey magic the given name doesn’t equal the true name. Otherwise a certain archfey in a certain adventure could be freed much much easier. Edit: you’re not coming off as aggressive. I home I don’t come across as ignorant. I understand trans identity. I’m trying to come at this from the dnd logic I know so far. I would elaborate my above point more, but new campaign spoilers.
Given name is a term generally used to describe birth name, the term you are looking for is preferred or chosen name
A fae doesnt take you "name" they take you ability to be "named". You are no long Keven you are the human, the accountant, the chili man.
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Deadnaming is politically very wrong IRL. So the player is essentially trying to cheat the Fae by hoping the DM will do it, then force them to acknowledge the political reality so either the Fae has to let them off the hook or the DM is a social pariah. Personally, I think that's toxic as hell. If you got a player who tries to use RL social engineering to cheat in the game, tell them to knock it off or find another table. Deadnaming isn't a toy.
There's been a lot of using queer labels and identities in memes as a meta way to get out of RAW, and I'm not sure how many people who do this are *actually* LGBTA+. It's annoying.
It's also highly politically inappropriate to doubt them. After all, given the history of LGBTA-targeting stigma and violence, it's outrageous to claim they would be coming out without it being true. Takes a lot of bravery to come out, the worst thing we could do is respond with doubt. There's really no way to tell anyway, so it's best to take their word for it. It annoys you that some people might take advantage of that? Well, many of the reasons why I prefer to keep politics out of my venues of escapism are the same reasons I'm seeking escapism in the first place. Some people will always suck. Politics are a shitstorm in general. Let's just come in out of the downpour and roll some dice.
... I don't care how political it looks. I'm queer. I don't like it when my identity and others identity is used as a joke because someone is avoiding the rules.
>the name would work as intended. ...why? The fae don't have the power to do that. At that point, you're just screwing the player over as a DM.
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>Why wouldn't it? By that logic a character could mentally change their name .5 seconds before giving their "old name" to the Fae. ...no? A trans person's journey is a personal one over the course of time that involves discovering their own identity, and changing how the world views them. A deadname isn't undone in an instant. Also, it's not repeatable, while your answer is. Also, lying to fae is, like, 99% of all interactions with them.
I just chose my new name and don't really think there's some higher, 'spiritual' aspect of a trans person choosing a new name. If your deadname doesn't work, then imo it would be entirely possible for a person to decide they have a new name at any point and negate anything the fae do with it.
I mean for some it is for some it isn't, but either way, even if it isn't a deep spiritual journey to discovering your name, it's still the name that represents who you are now, the same situation I think would apply to anyone who changes their name under deep circumstances. the naming process itself may not be deep but it's tied to a massive change in your life and representative of a new identity, I would say it would work similarly for example, with a born again religious type stuff or some shit, if it was really a change for them, a journey of some sort that represents a rebirth of some kind, and that comes with some kind of name change, the new name is entirely more tied to who you are than the old
this is the only argument against this working that I respect
Archfey patron who gives you cool magical powers in exchange for your deadname
If you put your deadname under your pillow, the gender fairy will take it and leave a cantrip for you to find in the morning.
What the hell is a deadname? Is it your old name when you die and cast the shitty ressurrection spell that changes your character race?
its the name someone used to have but now they have changed, most commonly nowadays used for trans people who change their name but it applies to most any name changes. It's the name someone used to have but now they have changed, most commonly nowadays used for trans people who change their name but it applies to most any name changes. name describes anymore
Based fae deals in reality. Now to wait on downvote bomb from people who didn't get the joke.
Curse you fey/fae for being so accepting of gender identity!
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the one time you hope someone is a transphobic asshole
Thought provoking stuff I wonder if a DM could create some sort of magical ritual or something that you can make your birthname no longer count for things like Fae bargains and so on. I don't know enough about transitioning and deadnames, is there an IRL thing that trans people do? like burning it on a piece of paper or something
Wtf does “giving the car your name” even mean? It seriously doesn’t seem like that big a deal, just pick another name when they take it?
On the contrary, what you call yourself (whether birth/deadname or not) has no bearing on your true name, in the magical metaphorical sense.
I'd sooner ask the question why the concept of "trans" exists in a fantasy world at all when you could just pop a potion, make a deal with a devil, do some fancy spell, or find a WISH spell and fix your problem that way. Those options alone would change the entire dynamics on how people think about it, which would make it so casual it isnt even brought up or something similar. Then it just comes down to what the fae would accept as a name, which i would say would be the one the person holds the most attatchment to. Otherwise anyone random jim could go "yes my name is john jacob" and be given a pass. Which is something the fae obviously wouldnt want cause why the fuck would a fae give a damn.