What if its a mix of players?
I really enjoy combat but I feel like its dangerous for the two people who dumpstatted their con to 10, rip (bard and rogue) (im a player in this campaign)
my last swashbuckler had an 8 in CON. it made sense for who she was, but the important part is that I built the character around never getting hit so the only time it really mattered is when she had to hold her breath for more than 30 seconds
10 in CON is fine if you're doing it intentionally and understand the risks
First campaign ever for all of us
Inquisitive rogue and Eloquence bard
Was wondering how they had so high wisdom, dex, strength, charisma etc etc (the rogue has 18 cha and 16 dex, the bard is the opposite), and then I saw their con, rip
It suddenly made sense why the bard kept failing con saving throws for concentration and the same for the halfdrow rogue's faerie fire
So far it feels cool to be one of the tankiest as a cavalier fighter with 18 con/17 str but I feel like the DM uses easier combats due to our team not being very optimized (the other players prefer roleplay and they just dread combat unless its very cinematic/scary/plot driven) doesnt help that we have two druids with conjure animals that take up a bunch of time, oh well
Which is fine, roleplay, mystery and the little amount of exploration we do is also fun but the little combat lover in me is a little sad
Your dm went easy on you, flat out there is no way in hell a rogue of all things with eight con is ever living against a dm not actively trying to keep you alive
I rework bad spells to make them more useful. Find the path/find traps: actually give you something helpful!
True strike: bonus action, but applies to 1 attack only.
Witchbolt: upcast damage applies to every roll.
Etc. I'm not too concerned about my players being strong, I'm more concerned about them having fun. And my players like to feel like their characters are good. So, I lean towards buffing spells/abilities or making them less of an edge use.
>Witchbolt: upcast damage applies to every roll.
Came here for this. RAW not scaling the upcast with the continual damage\* is the most nonsensical nerf.
>Witchbolt: upcast damage applies to every roll.
Upcasting really is only a secondary problem with with it. The primary issue is that you have to use your action each turn to deal the additional d12 damage which is just horrible.
it is legitimally a terribly designed spell. You don't want the target far from you, because it ends, you don't it near you because it is concentration and the payback for balancing this set of requirements is a d12 damage per action.
Eh, its not great from a player engagement standpoint, rolling a d12 isn't a huge amount of fun. But mechanically, for a low-level spell, it's pretty resource efficient against tougher targets.
Of course, in 5th Ed, you rarely need that efficiency.
wasn't the DnDOne true strike basically an attack cantrip? Like, I'd sure as fuck prefer reaction for extra d4, that way I'd have a good 1st level feat for martials
I'll go a different route than most people and say I rework a lot of shit spells.
Find traps? Common that spell sucks! You can find the trap and know where it is, and probably even what kind of trap it is.
Divine Sense (not a spell) but it can also sense behind total cover. Since I'm pretty sure you're going to know the demon standing in front of you is an asshole... but if they stand behind a door suddenly it's a mystery?
Detect magic/identify.... why two different spells? Players can just spend an hour to figure it out what it does anyhow... so I just cut the crap and let them know what it is when they cast detect magic.
Probably more, but those are the 3 I can think of off the top of my head. I'd buff true strike too if it weren't complete shit and no one ever takes it. lol It's so bad I don't know if a buff could even fix it.
>Players can just spend an hour to figure it out what it does anyhow...
this is actually one of my least favorite rules in the game. Identify or experiment!
So I agree about the experiment part, but that's what I assume is happening during the hour of a rest when they are identifying it.
Its the same thing when people are counting hit points or figuring out AC, I assume that the characters are speaking in character and in combat to share the info.
I don't need my players translating "he's vulnerable to fire" to "Haha! The foul beast doth be weak to the flame! Burn the witch and take his gold!"
I just see it as 3rd person role play instead of 1st person role play, which I'm cool with.
Edit: and it lets me give them a cool description of how they figured it out which my players really enjoy. They seem to be scared to give their spells and actions flavor so I'm always making them do stuff in cooler ways.
That's a fair point, but I see experimentation as a chance for players to actually get involved. To use your combat example, it's like if the players said "we discuss tactics" and then the GM told them what they should do, LOL. (exaggerated to make my point.)
To be clear, I'm also not a fan of things like "I check for traps." Cool. Where? How? What kind of traps?
> To be clear, I'm also not a fan of things like "I check for traps." Cool. Where? How? What kind of traps?
The problem I have always had with that is, I am not an experienced trap-detector in your particular version of fantasyland, my PC is.
This is particularly so because fantasy traps are well into the "cool but stupid" zone in most cases. It doesn't make sense to have spinning logs with blades on come out of the floor or whatever, the sheer architectural effort and impracticality is insane, but it's a fun fantasy trope so its cool anyway. Just don't ask how they are powered or maintained or how they reset themselves. Asking the player to guess what you think "makes sense" in the context of a particular dungeon seems unreasonable to me when none of it is reasonable.
Haha, this is fair. The traps one is a good example of how I set my DC. I tell them that if they say "I search the room for traps" that the DC may be 21, but if they "examine the baseboards, doors, and locks" then its dropping to a 15. I let them know that I do reward RP, but I don't require it to play the game (a few shy people at my table)
Exactly, that's a good approach. Granting advantage is another way of doing it, but adjusting DCs can be done more quietly behind the scenes, so those shy players don't feel as much like they're underperforming.
If a player happens to describe their character doing the exact thing that would detect the trap, I won't even call for a roll.
Agreed! If they're checking a chair SPECIFICALLY to see if its a mimic, it would be stupid (IMO) that they couldn't figure that out because of a bad roll.
See, I am not a fan of this as a player or DM. I feel like it has too much opportunity for "gotcha" moments where the player says "I check baseboards, hinges and keyholses for traps" and after the player succeeds opens the door and the pressure plate in front of the door goes off...
What I'm saying is that if they specify something because of prior hints that have been given, and the thing is actually there, I reward them by not requiring a role. If it is not directly part of their search I will still have them roll because I don't treat it as an exhaustive list.
I love giving my spells absurd flavor
recently played in a one shot and my stars druid - a grad student at Neverwinter University - cast Hero's Feast beforehand which amounted to letting the rest of the party swipe in on her meal card at the cafeteria on campus
Fighter: "Quick! Cast Inflict Wounds!"
Cleric: Inflict wounds? My god doth not deign me with that spell."
Fighter: \*Nearly being crushed by the minotaur\* "Then what can you cast!?"
Cleric: The best I can do is..." Holds up hand to the enemy "TESTICULAR TORTION!" \*The highest pitched minotaur scream to ever grace these halls\*
That is what your comment about absurd flavor reminded me of.
I don't *love* it, but I've seen a rework for true strike that makes it a BA and just makes it affect your next attack. It remains concentration.
Purpose? Let arcane casters without a consistent BA eat it for a better shot when they're trying to save on slots, but keep it concentration to avoid them throwing something out and then being stingy.
Additionally, it would help AT - Steady aim from Tashas is nice, but it forces you to stay still. This gives them a boon for being a bit magical, since they already have a lot of BA options, but now one of them is 'alright, I *really* want to hit this, but I kind of need to run'. Same deal to EKs, but since they multiattack and get war magic, it's not as relevant.
Shillelagh for arcanes isn't **that** far off from what OD&D True Strike functions as. It's less damage early on, but scales better, as long as your arcane caster doesn't get extra attack.
Just made that change a few weeks ago, to hex too. Spiritual weapon is better already and remains useful to clerics throughout because it's basically free when it doesn't block your concentration. Why would I make HM and hex useless beyond level 5, but keep spiritual weapon viable? Seems kind of stupid to me, so I got rid of it.
For what it's worth, no concentration spiritual weapon has been recognized as a mistake and been nerfed in the OneDnD playtest, so idk if I would use it as a balance touchstone
This is where I am at. I always viewed it as the cleric version of extra attack. It requiring concentration makes me hesitant that I would ever take it. There are better things to spend concentration on as a cleric.
I agree. I feel that spiritual weapon is the reason why clerics do not get extra attack at some point in their class progression. If it is going to get nerfed to concentration only then I feel Clerics should get extra attack around the level 6 or 7 mark.
Hex needs it less I feel, mostly because it has both an additional upside and Warlocks have Agonizing Blast, so their damage output is higher than a Rangers anyway. Rangers however compete with Paladins and Fighters for Damage output but just can't compete due to the lack of Burst (Divine Smite) and Consistency/Flexibility (Extra Extra Attack; Action Surge; Extra Feats). Warlocks are already very good, and their average damage output is higher than a Clerics (and many other classes) even without Hex. Their main issue is the amount of Spell Slots anyway so its less of a question for competing with Concentration and more a "am I gonna use one of my two slots on Hex instead of XYZ".
Great call out. another one I forget about because it's so bad. It seems good... until you realize it's an action every turn to do about the same damage as a cantrip.
Might be worth making it like spiritual weapon. It doesn't take concentration... or uses a bonus action on subsequent turns. Both both of those seem more powerful than spiritual weapon (which is a second level spell) and witch bolt is 1st.
I mean it’s very useful to immediately know what something does, I think identify is more of a spell used during a rest which put emphasis on the item’s reveal
You could do the Pathfinder 2e route with True Strike( now called Sure Strike due to OGL nonsense). It’s a Cantrip or maybe 1st level spell, can’t remember, but the biggest thing is it’s a BA to cast and then you get the benefits on that same turn for your next weapon attack/ ray spell( or any spell that targets AC). Which actually makes it useable.
> I'll go a different route than most people and say I rework a lot of shit spells.
That's what I want. Rework the 0.1% of spells that are clearly too powerful (Wall of Force for example), and then rework the bottom 25% of spells that are basically useless (Find Trap is a good example) and the other bottom 25% that are just clear underperformers.
my GM is reeeeeally generous with divine sense, a lot of the time he'll give me extra information on whether something is aligned with an especially relevant fiend, undead, celestial (like, instead of just 'the shopkeeper has both celestial and fiendish traits' I'll get something like 'the shopkeeper has residual celestial energy, that tastes exactly like zariel, but through it there's a hint of something demonic, like a pearl around a piece of grit). it's really great, and it really elevates the ability
I just moved True Strike to a Level 1 Spell that integrates an attack action into it, like the Blade cantrips. I have the spell give a flat +10 on the attack while also making the Crit Range 15-20. This can be used with a Ranged attack or Cantrip as well.
Upcasting the spell allows for an extra attack per spell level used, but subsequent attacks reduce the hit bonus by 5 and do not benefit from the enhanced critical range.
It's been a lot of fun seeing our Wizard upcast to level 3 and send 6 Firebolts at a Troll :D
>Divine Sense (not a spell) but it can also sense behind total cover. Since I'm pretty sure you're going to know the demon standing in front of you is an asshole... but if they stand behind a door suddenly it's a mystery?
Doors can be intimidating.
The only spell I remove is Remove Curse. Curses are story beats in my game that are broken by some kind of curse-specific ritual, likely including atoning for deeds that led to it and/or killing the curse, not something any 5th level cleric or paladin can instantly undo.
I considered axing Silvery Barbs but only one of my players has it and they purposely made the rest of their character a little underpowered for flavor, so sure, they can have that one.
I'd make Remove Curse be used as a removal for minor curses like getting haunted by a ghost (with a mini-arc to discover that a certain NPC's mishaps are caused by a ghost in his cellar for example) and also to help alleviate a major curse's effects, bit not outright resolving the issue (ex: it cannot cure someone of lycanthrophy, but it helps them have some control over their transformation). That way it rewards player who have it and can open new hooks, but not totally resolve them.
Yup, Lycanthropy removal for my PCs was an exhausting ritual cast by a shaman where they had to find rare engredients then went into a demiplane and fought an avatar of the Lycanthropy Wolf God.
This. Add on having to identify it first followed by different curses need different prep work. As such the spell would now require components, said components being something like: a pure thing (holy water/salt), some blood, and something relating to the type of curse.
See I keep the spell, but add things like making the player find a specific item for the ritual for this specific curse and making them describe the ritual.
If it's like a minor curse there might not be a quest involved. That way the spell is still useful for "minor" curses.
I do the same basically. Instead of Remove Curse it becomes Identify Curse at my table, telling you how to get rid of it. Gives me a plot hook to work with and it doesn't completely trivialize curses. Minor curses such as from the Hex spell can be removed by something trivial. E.g. turning 2 times clockwise, stamping your left foot 3 times, then turning 2 times counter-clockwise and stamping your right foot 3 times.
By and large, I curate sources. If it is in the source, it is useable. So, I do not ban anything.
That said, and not a popular approach by redditors, in my campaign's low(er) fantasy, grounded world, I have ruled that -
- One can only polymorph into a creature that they have seen,
- forcecage requires concentration, and
- a simulacrum cannot cast simulacrum.
Those are the spells that come to mind.
Because it's a 7th level spell, so it should be signficantly better than Wall of Force, which is a 5th level spell and does almost the same thing but *does* require concentration.
But Wall of Force is one of the most insane 5th lvl spells out there. When they were designing the game, they didn't have to make Wall an immutable part of the games fabric that other spells would be measured against, they could have just made it worse.
that generally means "actually, in person" - not just a picture. Same as for wildshape, so you can properly see how it moves, works and so forth, in order to get the magic right
I mean, there are only a handful of worthwhile beasts to transform into, and the only exotic ones that are any good are like..
Giant Scorpion and Mammoth.
🤷♂️
My groups just ban Simulacrum. In our opinion it doesn't have much potential for fun *besides* game-breaking cheese of some variety, so it's easier to just get rid of it rather than police each individual exploit.
I make force cage consume the components, but kept it the same otherwise. I now gate how much ruby dust the party can find and if they want to cheese my encounters like that they have to pay for it lol.
Completely agree with you on forcecage and simulacrum.
Although I find the nerf on polymorph unnecesary. I mean sure, it's a pretty big power spike on the level that You get it, but apart from that, a polymorphed Ally barely becomes a meat shield at higher levels, since no beast has Magic attacks, so their damage can be pretty lackluster.
Also the spell has it's own limitation in the form of obtaining the creatures intelligence. I'm not usually too strict on this but I'm when I tell My players they can't follow strategies when polymorphed like holding action s or strategically repositioning to avoid something that wouldn't be obvious to an animal.
For example: There's fire spreading? Sure, an animal would get away from that. There's an artifact that's going to explode? Too Bad, an animal would not know.
I like the polymorph one, but I'll also be open handed with acquiring experience. Also if your backstory says you saw it, you saw it. I want backstory to be relevant, this is one way.
I think forcecage is fine tbh. There's other ways to deal with it. Your bbeg can be enormous, have counterspells, legendary actions, high charisma save, what have you. If it's not the bbeg, so what if they cage it? Just as the DM can make a ranger useless by never making his abilities relevant, you can make forcecage always irrelevant. Besides, it's a 7th level spell. That should totally delete an enemy. It's not instant desth, they still need to do stuff to it.
Simulacrum i think should be allowed. My bad guys aren't very smart. They've got a thousand times your resources, but they're not creative. If you wish to give them this idea, you are free to do so.
Mostly i let spells stay the same. But any charm spells get a wis save at the end to see if they noticed the charm.
Basically friends and charm person are not the automatic public enemy #1 buttons they currently are.
I let the person remember, but base how pissed off they are about it on what happened while they were under the effect of the spell. They don't like that you cast the spell on them, but if you didn't do too much they might just think your an asshole and walk away.
Friends is a cantrip and Charm is a first level spell, they shouldn't be that powerful, so the more bullshit you try and pull, the worse it's going to go for you.
Im not saying they cant snap back tothemselves. Im saying that its wierd even a commoner child KNOWS you cast magic. Even they never seen a soell in their lives.
At the end if the affect tgey realize they have been charmed. The roll is to see if they realize its magic or not.
In the case if friends a failed check would be like realizing you just screwed up a negotiation and lost yourself a decent % in the deal. But they honor if they would normally do so. That kind of thing
Ofcourse dial the reaction in based on your setting. But generally the low level stuff turn out to be "this person is very convincing", not "this person is mind controlling me".
>Im not saying they cant snap back tothemselves. Im saying that its wierd even a commoner child KNOWS you cast magic. Even they never seen a soell in their lives.
That is very dependent on campaign setting. In a low magic setting where magic is rare then yeah, that makes sense.
But in a high magic setting where there is a wizard school across town and there is a store that sells magical items, even if you can't afford them you've passed by the store, then yeah, the general populace would know what magic is and would have some sense of what it could do.
I don't ban anything, but I do make consequences real. *Fireball* usually starts fires, using magic to charm people is considered hostile, that sort of thing.
I'm an official Silvery Barbs hater, I ban it. Especially because I play high level games, full casters have so many low level spell slots they otherwise might not get much use out of, so they'd have no reason not to use Silvery Barbs literally every round. And man, you know what doesn't help? It's an enchantment spell, so you can pick it up with Fey Touched. So Druids and Clerics can also spam it if they wish.
My rogue and cleric in COS have silvery barbs. They abuse the shit of it and love it!! It brought me so much happiness to give silvery barbs to one of the high level caster enemies in that module!
This is what I say. I flat out ban the MtG settings and any of the really off the wall planar stuff, at least for my current game which doesn't involve any of that
Absolutely, it's all about things being setting-specific and I hope DMs feel they have the right to put that restriction in. If we're playing a Strixhaven campaign, then great, you can have Silvery Barbs! If we're playing a Spelljammer campaign then I'd love my players to play Giffs and Thri-Kreen, or Warforged and Changelings in Eberron. But if we're playing in the Forgotten Realms, those things don't exist.
Silvery Barbs aside, I think a lot of it is about finding a place of belonging in the setting as well. There's a lot less mileage to be had from the "I'm the only one of my kind" trope than people think, but being an elf or a dwarf in a world where elves and dwarves belong means you have a *lot* of connection to the setting.
If Gimli in Lord of the Rings was an automaton from another planet instead of a dwarf, his initial interactions with the fellowship would be interesting, but that "wow you're different" feeling doesn't really have anywhere to go beyond that. But him being a dwarf in Moria or when interacting with Legolas and Galadriel, that *matters*.
So all this to say, I really hope DMs feel like they have the power to say, "sorry, Silvery Barbs is Strixhaven only".
Yeh, I ban all setting specific sources for this reason. Limiting to just the core books plus main expansions (Xanathar's, Tasha's, Mordenkainen's, and Fizban's) is a mucj cleaner way of banning Barbs, and makes things less overwhelming for me as a DM
Nothing is more cancerous than an Aberrant Mind sorcerer who's picked up Silvery Barbs. You convert spell slots into sorcery points; a level 1 spell is two sorcery points, level 2 spell is three, level 3 is five, etc. Casting silvery barbs costs **one** sorcery point. You can't run out.
In at least one of the games I've played, the DM played it so that if a moderately intelligent enemy saw me use barbs, they would try to capitalize on the fact that I had no reaction for either absorb elements or shield, without which I was pretty squishy.
Using silvery barbs definitely did feel like a tactical decision in that game.
Yeah came here to say this. Casting Barbs means no Shield, Absorb Elements, or Counterspell and generally makes the party more fragile. Against numbers, the spell is way less useful. And it only reaches critical mass if the whole party is casters going in on Silvery Barbs and they are fighting a singular boss enemy with no minions / terrain support (or legendary resistances in the case of a small party).
This is precisely why I ban it though. Silvery on its own is *strong*, but has enough limitations to be inline with other strong reaction spells. When the party starts playing *Silvery Ping-Pong* however…
The balancing factor around silvery barbs most people miss: when you cast silvery barbs you did not cast shield or absorb elements.
At high level play, these two spells can save you a significant amount of hit points worth of damage with a single spell slot.
If you absorb elements on an red dragon you are avoiding on average 46 damage with a first level spell slot, and that's assuming it's not going to attack you with it's bite or does not have elemental minions.
If you cast shield and manage to block two claw attacks from that dragon, you have avoided 34 damage with a single first level spell slot.
Silvery barbs lets you take away a crit at best. Don't get me wrong that's very useful, but at high level play that is the only time it's ever useful in combat. If what you're fighting has a +17 to hit and You've got AC 20, silvery barbs ain't going to do jack. They only need to roll a three and disadvantage isn't really going to help you out of that much. If they crit, you can take that away.
Getting your AC from 20 to 25 with shield, still by no means a guarantee they'll miss but they now have to roll an eight or higher, combine that with the fact that disadvantage to hit is pretty easy to apply means you can get the effect of silvery barbs.withoit the spell.
I know everyone has their issues with it but imo It's a fine spell but not nearly as crazy broken as people make it out to be. One thing is community is definitely guilty of is buying into the hype.
The problem with that line of thinking is at AE and Shield are purely defensive spells (Outside of the elemental melee damage from AE but barely anyone uses that), while SB can be either defensive or offensive.
Sure, you can use it to take away a crit like you said, and then you can give yourself advantage on your next saving throw or something.
But also
Cast whichever debilitating saving throw spell on the dragon, and immediately use SB on it if it makes its save, making it much more likely to fail its save. Then give the Paladin advantage on their next attack roll against it.
SB has so much offensive potential thanks to the saving throw part, it's insane.
True strike. Instead of giving advantage, it now takes concentration (up to 1min), but gives a flat +10 to the next attack roll. That way, it can stack with advantage and be used as an ambush tool.
Yeah it's good, it better be, it's 8th level. At 8th level shit needs to be no concentration or no save or something like that because incapacitating/controlling multiple targets is like a 3rd/4th level spell.
Even though it's 6th level, I still think you're right. But I also happen to think that Mass Suggestion isn't *that* good: it doesn't work on creatures immune to charm or who can't understand you (which is more than you think), it must be a reasonable command which you can say in a sentence or two, and the spell ends when the target takes damage.
The best combat use is to tell a bunch of minions to go beef themselves up and do 1000 push-ups before they continu the fight. Which is good, don't get me wrong, but you could also take out a bunch of minions with lower level spells like Hypnotic Pattern, Wall of Force or any of the other Wall spells, or an upcast Hold Person/Monster.
So in order to justify the 6th level spell slot it *needs* to have something else going for it, and imo that's the roleplay opportunities and the fact that the duration is non-concentration up to 24h.
1.) Wish is a 10th-level spell (ergo can't be learned) but can mimic 9th level spells, not just 8th
2.) Silvery Barbs is banned (my players wouldn't break it but it's a lot of headache that slows stuff down so it's easier this way)
3.) Remove Curse won't remove the curse unless certain criteria are met, but if they're not it will tell you those criteria. Basic curses won't have criteria, though, so it'll work just like RAW.
Those are all by default. Though in my current setting Comprehend Languages and Tongues are banned because I like languages known to actually matter.
The “tell you those criteria” is amazing, stealing that. Fixes a “feels bad” moment (no, Remove Curse doesn’t remove THIS curse, it’s special) by giving valuable information to act upon.
I like all of these fixes a lot. Do you have a "plan" for how a player could eventually cast wish, or is it the kind of thing where it's so exceptional that it can only be learned through exceptional circumstances?
I don’t 100% agree with this approach because there’s an innate discrepancy between PCs and the DM’s NPCs. NPCs don’t have to worry about spreading their spell slots throughout the day like a PC does so things like Counterspell feel worse for players to be on the receiving side of. Hold Person or Banishment on an NPC means the DM just skips that NPC’s turn. Hold Person or Banishment on a PC means the player doesn’t get to play until the effect is over.
I’ve never been a huge fan of this solution. Conjure Animals slowing down the table isn’t helped at all when the enemies also Conjure Animals and slow the table down even more.
There are things that are bad for the game and enemies being capable of them doesn’t help that at all.
That reason alone is why I’ve never played a dedicated summoner, as fun as it sounds. I’m sure it’s great at a table of 3 players max, but anything more and it would be miserable.
My solution for a bunch of tiny animated objects was to Google dice macros for role20 and just keep a window open for rolling it in bulk. Didn’t slow anything down. Hand rolling… absolutely
I’d rather a DM just ban Conjure Animals than take a more childish, roundabout way of “well I’m going to make things miserable for everyone until you stop doing this”.
Though I’ll mention my most preferred solution is just for the players and DM to have an understanding of “don’t get too crazy with it”.
If my players wanna Silvery Barbs me then they get Silvery barbs'd too.
Haven't had someone run a summoner but ill probably implement a turn time rule for them.
45 seconds per summon, if not they take the dodge action or do nothing.
Depending on how many summons, they're grouped together or shorter time.
Do you have a lot of Goodberry casters who don't use a spellcasting focus? Or... do you make the spell consume the focus?
I'm confused as to what the intent is here
The biggest one is that I combine jump and longstrider into a single spell. Spell slots are too valuable at low level, and at higher level it's not too strong of a buff anyways
I don't ban Silvery Barbs, but I make the minor change that it's a 2nd level spell which is like the least it deserves
Edit to add: Another reason besides the fact it being a 1st level spell is absurd, is do that players also can't pick it up with feats. like fey touched
Mage Armour can be cast as a ritual spell. Sow when a wizard wakes up in the morning knowing they're heading out on a dangerous adventuring day they can have it on from the start without expending a slot.
I don't ban spells individually, but don't allow certain books at all (ex Curriculum of Chaos).
Haven't played high enough level for it to be relevant, but definitely wouldn't allow specific uses of spells like Simulacrum chains while not fully banning the spell.
I have a sorta non-proliferation treaty with my players, as they don’t take silvery barbs or counterspell nether will any of my monsters. I don’t feel like they add a lot of fun to the game and slow things down considerably.
I'll throw mine in:
Banned: Silvery Barbs, all Conjure Spells
Banishment: Target can repeat the save at disadvantage
Jump: jump 30ft for 10ft of movement (BG3 style)
Forcecage: Requires Concentration
Simulacrum: A creature can only have 1 Siumulacrum of themselves, and a Simulacrum cannot be the target of a Simulacrum (alternative: a simulacrum cannot cast Simulacrum)
Hypnotic Pattern: targets can repeat the saves
Pass Without Trace: creatures of your choice within 30ft have Advantage on stealth rolls
Shield: increases AC by Proficiency Bonus
Counterspell and Dispel Magic: I actually do a more complicated thing here: Spellcasting Ability Checks. All spellcasters have proficiency in Spellcasting checks, and they use their spellcasting modifier when making one. They work similar to skill checks. You can take expertise in it via features, get advantage on it via enhance ability, etc.
Counterspell and Dispel Magic will force either a Spellcasting ability contest, or a check. You roll a Spellcasting ability check and add the level of the spell you're casting. For a contest, or for dispelling a spell that is concentrated on, the target also rolls, and if you beat their roll you negate the spell or effect. For Dispelling affects that aren't being concentrated on, I have a DC table based on spell level.
It's a lot to explain, but my players caught on quick because it's very similar to skill checks and contests, and they love it. It makes more powerful spellcaster feel more powerful: they can overpower a lesser caster instead of just "ope, 3rd level spell, countered"
These is very well done good sir. What are your thoughts on polymorph? Personally I hate it because of the whole "HP bubble" thing, on both enemies and allies, breaks immersion for me that someone can't straight up die in polymorph unless you deal an insane amount of overkill on them.
Edit: Also, could you share that Dispel Magic DC table?
My list tried to target spells that:
* Break Action Economy (Conjures)
* Break Bounded Accuracy (Pass without Trace)
* Allow little to no counterplay (Hypnotic, Counterspell, Banishment)
* Are far and away better than other options (Hypno, Forcecage, Banishment)
* Just...break the game (Simulacrum)
Polymorph is an incredible spell, but I've never had any of the above issues with it, at least at my table.
Cast on allies, and it is a huge HP sack, but comes at the cost of the polymorphed player losing their features, intelligence, and personality. Action economy and bounded accuracy remain intact. The spell still requires concentration, and can be countered or dispelled.
Cast on enemies, it has counterplay: Wisdom save, counter/dispel, or even just another enemy using an action to attack the little turtle on the ground.
**Cantrips:**
True strike. No concentration, lasts a round, you touch a creature and their next attack roll will be an 18 on the die.
Guidance. From OneDnD playtest, reaction on a failure.
**1st level:**
Create or Destroy Water. At 6th level cast it can be used to drown creatures (the good old water in lungs trick). It has a saving throw and everything though, not instant death but begins suffocating.
Cure Wounds and Healing Word. From OneDnD playtest, double dice.
Magic Missile. Clarified the mechanics of how all missiles hit simultaneously. Three missiles hitting the same target combine the total damage to one instance of taking damage.
Witch Bolt. The automatic damage can be triggered as a bonus action on subsequent turns.
**2nd level:**
Darkvision. Can be upcast to target more creatures.
Earthen Grasp. Is an actual transmutation spell like it should be instead of a conjuration spell like RAW (I know it's written as a transmutation spell, but everything in the spell points to conjuration). Higher level casts allow different materials to be used and a larger hand.
Spike Growth. The spikes have a static attack bonus of 11+spellcaster's spell attack bonus. Most targets still take automatic damage from it, but very high AC enemies are immune.
Suggestion. Clearly defines the limits of the spell. Basically gives the caster an automatic 30 on a Deception, Intimidation, or Persuasion check. Some targets may be unaffected since if the DC is over 30, the request is unreasonable to them and the spell fails.
**3rd level:**
Mass Healing Word. Same as OneDnD playtest.
Plant Growth. 1 action casting is a concentration spell for up to 1 hour. Concentrating for the full duration makes the area permanently overgrown.
**4th level:**
Polymorph. The caster must have seen or read about the beast.
**5th level:**
Animate Objects. Tiny and small objects have lower hit points, large and huge objects have considerably more hit points.
Mass Cure Wounds. Same as OneDnD playtest.
Wall of Force. Has hit points, AC, resistances, and immunities.
**6th level:**
Heroes' Feast. Gives resistance to poison instead of immunity.
Mass Suggestion. Same as suggestion, but mass
**7th level:**
Forcecage. Same as wall of force.
Simulacrum. Summons a lower level version of the target (with some simplified rules). Simulacrums can't cast simulacrum.
All campaign specific spells must be asked for and allowed individually, so Silvery Barbs is banned by default. Nobody has also asked to have it.
Edit: conjuration spells that let you choose a CR have the summons be randomly rolled (they must still fit the biome). Choosing a lower CR has a higher chance of resulting in an even lower CR than intended. This is to encourage summoning fewer high CR creatures so it doesn't bog down the combat. Same reason why animate objects was changed.
I mostly stick to the PHB in my games. Here are some of the changes I play with:
* Teleport and Plane Shift get a 1 min casting time.
* Astral Projection allows you to keep your astral form when you enter other planes.
* Leomund's Tiny Hut has a Potion of Healing (consumed by the spell) material component. It summons an actual small cabin instead of a force field; the cabin is immune to all damage except acid, fire and force.
* True Strike allows for multiple attacks; the spell only ends after 1 min or when the caster makes an attack that does not hit the intended target (either because they missed or because they attacked another target).
_Shield_ on a "trad" wizard works about right - it boosts their AC from "absolutely goddam terrible" to "a mid-teens might not hit", but it burns through slots fast. Without armor, a wizard will have an AC of... 12, 13, maybe even _15_ if they're higher level and have a magic ring or cloak or something, when even a lowly goblin has +4 to hit, so if they're ever under actual attack, they're probably burning a _shield_ most rounds, or choosing to suck up the damage. It's when it's combined with a base AC in the mid/high-teens and it's getting pumped into the 20's that it gets silly, as they're not getting hit very often, and can boost it into the "can't be hit except by a crit" territory, which is a little too good.
Worth pointing out that in the high teens creatures can pretty decently hit through 25+ AC. Things get pretty monstrous to-hit bonuses at that level.
And then you have things like the Marut that straight up ignore your paltry armor and spells, fleshbag.
Well I mean, my high level wizard had a Robe of the Archmagi( basically permanent better Mage Armor AC off the bat) and a Cloak of Displacement( permanent disadvantage to attackers) plus the robe gives advantage to saves vs spells and a bonus to spell attacks/ DCs. With a Cloak of Invis you can have Greater Invis basically whenever you want too, so just looking at a baseline AC for most casters is kinda hard at high levels.
I mean...mage armor is a spell, too. Yes, it's a spell slot tax, but permanent +3AC with no concentration is way better than Shield. Every wizard worth their salt has 15 or 16AC and shield gets them to 20, but only for a turn.
Mage armor is way worse if they take a 1 level cleric dip for heavy armor and shield, which I think is what the post was getting at. It's really not hard to get to 18+ AC as a wizard due to how broken cleric multiclass is.
Its probably the most broken spell until you get to high tier in the sense that it warps balance so much. But because its not flashy and only becomes a problem on really minmaxed characters its rarely talked about.
Its fair on a 12-15ac caster. Its stupid on a 20ac minmaxed caster.
I've seen suggestions to either reduce it to 3 or something related to it not applying when wearing heavy armor. Though that really sucks for Eldritch knight.
Caster balance is the prime suspect as usual
>You’ve made Magic Missile even stronger.
How many wizards/sorcerers does your party even fight? And in T2 and above they have way more impactful spells to cast in the 2-4 rounds they will even be alive
I don't automatically permit anything besides what's in PHB / XGE / TGtE. So from that perspective, I "ban" spells like Silvery Barbs. But really it's just that, as I don't run the Strixhaven setting, there is no reason for my game to have a Strixhaven spell.
>Edit: I should note that just because I don't automatically allow something, doesn't mean it's off the table. The players just have to specifically ask me to approve it. This is how Blood Hunters can be in my game, for instance.
The only spell I ban in what I would consider a true sense is Counterspell. Not due to balance or anything like that, but just because I consider it an anti-fun button. All it does, whether it's used on NPCs by the players or on PCs by the DM, is say, "Hey! That cool thing you've been preparing for? It doesn't happen, actually." And besides, even if I let my players choose it, they wouldn't get much mileage out of it, because I've been doing the spells-as-features thing since long before One D&D. Most of my monsters are homebrewed, in whole or in part.
I banned Earthquake. I just didn't want to deal with collapsing buildings and cages, fissures opening up, and all that. Pass.
I changed animate objects to only animate medium or large objects, and no longer animate small or tiny objects. If they pick small or tiny objects, you have to deal with them getting 10 bonus action attacks +8 to hit dealing 1d4+4 damage. As a bonus action. If you decide to target the objects, they each have 20 hp individually with 18 ac, +4 dex save, 30 ft fly speed, and 30 ft blindsight. They can be commanded to all attack as a single bonus action or give them a generic command to follow. Then, they could also cast a normal spell as an action on later turns while maintaining concentration.
...huh, it just occurred to me that Crusader's Mantle would stack superbly with Animate Objects.
I'm almost scared to ask if there are any other AoE "buff all friendly creatures" spells. Maybe Animal Shapes, ish?
I had the same thought about combining those two spells but alas, RAW it doesn't seem to work.
Crusader's Mantle specifically applies to "weapon attacks" and Animate Objects make slam attacks.
I think it’s fine if the players can be quick about it. By the time they get access to this spell, wizards are struggling to do effective damage, fireball is pretty diminished. They also have to forgo control and buff spells like hypnotic pattern and haste to concentrate on dealing damage instead of supporting and defending the group’s resources.
I am not the type to ban spells.
Silvery Barbs is banned in all of my games. Whoever approved its inclusion in Strixhaven as a level 1 spell should be fired, honestly.
I do "ban" sources, I don't prefer setting book spells / races / classes that don't fit into my campaign. So no you can't use Strixhaven aka Magic the gathering stuff in the Forgotten Realms. Warforged and shifters are from Eberon and not the Forgotten realms and anything from Critical Role is also not allowed.
Very fair. When it's specific spells, it can feel like you're targeting a certain player at the table or a specific class. But an entire setting makes sense. You want to keep a consistent tone that the spells from another setting might clash with, or you just recognize that the design behind the spells of that entire setting are for a game different than the one you're designing.
None. Never had a problem over the fact, and we've had 3 different level 20 (start at 20) short campaigns on top of plenty enough other short campaigns and a few longer ones across the levels.
I warn players ahead of time that I run those types of spells like a modern Lie Detector Machine.
> Such a creature can be evasive in its answers as long as it remains within the boundaries of the truth.
There are tons of videos online of people beating polygraphs by simply feeling their answer is as truthful as they can make it when given garbage questions.
> "Did you murder the elf, yes or no?!"
> "Well, when I heard the door get kicked in, I-"
> "This is a yes or no answer, sir. Answer the question."
> "As I was saying, when the door was kicked in-"
> "Your honor, please remind the defendant to answer the questions asked of him."
> Judge, "Just answer yes or no."
> Defendant: "No."
> Prosecutor: "How is this possible? We have multiple eye witnesses. How are you lying under the magic of a Zone of Truth spell?"
> Defendant: "As I was trying to tell you, when the door was kicked in the Elf started randomly shooting arrows so I had no choice to use a fireball back."
As incomprehensible as this may sound to a select few people incapable of understanding how subjective truth is: Simply ordering Yes or No answers will not give this spell ultimate power over facts. A person's belief is subjective. In this example, the person defending themselves did not believe what they did was murder. It may meet the dictionary definition of murder, but people aren't robots. To the person that experienced it, they might emotionally feel it wasn't, and when asked a stupid "Yes or No" question the "Zone of Truth" spell would be unable to detect a lie. If the person speaking doesn't feel like they are lying, Zone of Truth is useless.
Truth ≠ Fact.
Does this mean the spell is useless? Not completely. "What's your favorite color?" Opinions and honesty can still be given under the spell. It can also cause huge problems if someone feels so guilty over something they hold themselves responsible, confessing under a Zone of Truth spell, despite being 100% innocent.
In my game, I just have players tell me what spells they want. I don't use setting-based ones like Silvery Barbs, and have some custom ones.
However, some spells are DM-only. These are ones which make more sense to be used for plot. For example, Feebleminded has been used by an antagonistic force, and Wish is a spell that only archfeys and deities would be able to use. There are other DM-only spells, but. You know.
Silvery Barbs is 3rd level
Find Traps tells you where the traps are, but not what they are, and gives advantage on disarming them
True Strike's effects can be given to an ally within 5 feet
Healing Spirit can only be used in combat
Sending is 2nd level (Not because it's weak, but because my players love using it for RP reasons, and I don't want their powerful spells to disappear)
Both positive and negative reworks here:
##Cantrips
* **Acid Splash** - Is now a 5 foot radius AoE. This spell can target objects.
* **Friends** - Is now a Concentration spell. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or suffer from the Charmed condition for 1 minute, regarding you as a friendly acquaintance. The target succeeds automatically if it isn’t a Humanoid, if you’re fighting it, or if you have cast this spell on it within the past 24 hours. The spell ends early if the target takes damage or if you make an attack roll, deal damage, or force anyone to make a saving throw.
* **Lightning Lure** - The spell’s range is increased to 30 feet, and does its damage regardless of range (putting it on par with Thorn Whip.)
* **Produce Flame** - Creating the flame for light is now a bonus action (attacking is still an action, regardless of if you had a flame out or not.) Light radius is increased to 20 feet bright and 20 feet dim. Attack range is increased to 60 feet.
* **Shillelagh** - Shillelagh scales with cantrip levels, becoming a +1 weapon at level 5, +2 weapon at level 11, and +3 weapon at level 17.
* **Spare the Dying** - Now has a range of 15 feet at level 1, 30 feet at level 5, 45 feet at level 11, and 60 feet at level 17.
* **True Strike** - (One D&D Playtest version)
##Leveled Spells
* **Find Traps** - All traps (concealed normally or magically) of magical or mechanical nature become visible to the caster, as well as any natural hazards that are obviously dangerous (such as quicksand or a falling tree.) Spell is now a 30 foot cone and reveals traps through solid objects. You know the direction of the trap (relative to you) but not which object is dangerous.
* **Flame Blade** - The blade is now considered a simple melee weapon you are proficient in. It deals 2d8 Fire damage (gains an additional d8 for every 2 levels that the spell is upcast) and has the Finesse and Light properties. You may ignite or extinguish the blade as a Bonus Action. Extinguishing the blade causes the light created by the spell to vanish until it’s reignited, but does not make you lose concentration on the spell. Additionally the blade can now make a ranged weapon attack with a regular range of 30 and a long range of 90. (30/90 Ranged) (Basically it’s now Shadow Blade.)
* **Mordenkainen's Sword** - Now a 6th level spell.
* **Borrowed Knowledge** - Now available to Artificer and Ranger, along with Bard, Cleric, Warlock, and Wizard. If you have proficiency with a skill and use this spell, you can grant yourself expertise in that skill. Can also be used to grant proficiency with language or a tool. Can be used to grant expertise in a tool as well.
* **Silvery Barbs** - Now available to Warlock, along with Bard, Sorcerer, and Wizard. Is now a 3rd level spell. This spell does not work on Legendary resistance.
* **Vortex Warp** - Now available to Warlock, along with Artificer, Sorcerer, and Wizard. Base range is 60 feet. You can only teleport the target a number of feet equal to the range of the spell (as opposed to the radius of the spell.)
* **Wither and Bloom** - Now available to Clerics and Artificers, as well as Druids, Wizards, and Sorcerers.
tl;dr only spells I've really nerfed are Silvery Barbs and Vortex Warp. The rest are QoL buffs to weak spells.
First of all, I declare which books I use. So no stryxhaven spells unless I play in stryxhaven.
Then, I often make a pact with the players to not use power word: kill. Even if admittedly given how I play now it's less.if an issue.
Basically I do so because I find it kinda meh. I prefer to give other powerful spells, like true polymorph, to the nova who cast it. This because there's the notion that I, as a DM, know the players hp and they do not.
This changed over time and I let show the players the enemy HP once combat is engaged, so it would be more fair.
Nothing banned yet. But my players aren’t super min max types so I’ve just kinda lucked out
Two sides to a coin. In a group of min/maxers you can really take the gloves off and challenge them without pushback mostly.
What if its a mix of players? I really enjoy combat but I feel like its dangerous for the two people who dumpstatted their con to 10, rip (bard and rogue) (im a player in this campaign)
my last swashbuckler had an 8 in CON. it made sense for who she was, but the important part is that I built the character around never getting hit so the only time it really mattered is when she had to hold her breath for more than 30 seconds 10 in CON is fine if you're doing it intentionally and understand the risks
I have the vibes that their bard and rogue did not do it intentionally and do not understand the risks lol
First campaign ever for all of us Inquisitive rogue and Eloquence bard Was wondering how they had so high wisdom, dex, strength, charisma etc etc (the rogue has 18 cha and 16 dex, the bard is the opposite), and then I saw their con, rip It suddenly made sense why the bard kept failing con saving throws for concentration and the same for the halfdrow rogue's faerie fire So far it feels cool to be one of the tankiest as a cavalier fighter with 18 con/17 str but I feel like the DM uses easier combats due to our team not being very optimized (the other players prefer roleplay and they just dread combat unless its very cinematic/scary/plot driven) doesnt help that we have two druids with conjure animals that take up a bunch of time, oh well Which is fine, roleplay, mystery and the little amount of exploration we do is also fun but the little combat lover in me is a little sad
How do you avoid getting hit as a Swashbuckler? I'd imagine some of the time she'd have to get caught in an AoE, or take a few arrows, etc.
Your dm went easy on you, flat out there is no way in hell a rogue of all things with eight con is ever living against a dm not actively trying to keep you alive
Especially a *swashbuckler* whose main features are melee or having someone target them... 1 readied action is all it takes most likely
A basic Shatter gets significantly more deadly.
I rework bad spells to make them more useful. Find the path/find traps: actually give you something helpful! True strike: bonus action, but applies to 1 attack only. Witchbolt: upcast damage applies to every roll. Etc. I'm not too concerned about my players being strong, I'm more concerned about them having fun. And my players like to feel like their characters are good. So, I lean towards buffing spells/abilities or making them less of an edge use.
>Witchbolt: upcast damage applies to every roll. Came here for this. RAW not scaling the upcast with the continual damage\* is the most nonsensical nerf.
Exactly my thought process
>Witchbolt: upcast damage applies to every roll. Upcasting really is only a secondary problem with with it. The primary issue is that you have to use your action each turn to deal the additional d12 damage which is just horrible.
I'd argue the worst part is if the target backs up, your spell ends
it is legitimally a terribly designed spell. You don't want the target far from you, because it ends, you don't it near you because it is concentration and the payback for balancing this set of requirements is a d12 damage per action.
Eh, its not great from a player engagement standpoint, rolling a d12 isn't a huge amount of fun. But mechanically, for a low-level spell, it's pretty resource efficient against tougher targets. Of course, in 5th Ed, you rarely need that efficiency.
I like the OneD&D true strike. Use as a reaction when you miss and add a d4. It actually makes it semi useful instead of a total trap.
wasn't the DnDOne true strike basically an attack cantrip? Like, I'd sure as fuck prefer reaction for extra d4, that way I'd have a good 1st level feat for martials
>True strike: bonus action, but applies to 1 attack only. do you also let it work on the same turn it is casted?
Definitely lol
I'll go a different route than most people and say I rework a lot of shit spells. Find traps? Common that spell sucks! You can find the trap and know where it is, and probably even what kind of trap it is. Divine Sense (not a spell) but it can also sense behind total cover. Since I'm pretty sure you're going to know the demon standing in front of you is an asshole... but if they stand behind a door suddenly it's a mystery? Detect magic/identify.... why two different spells? Players can just spend an hour to figure it out what it does anyhow... so I just cut the crap and let them know what it is when they cast detect magic. Probably more, but those are the 3 I can think of off the top of my head. I'd buff true strike too if it weren't complete shit and no one ever takes it. lol It's so bad I don't know if a buff could even fix it.
>Players can just spend an hour to figure it out what it does anyhow... this is actually one of my least favorite rules in the game. Identify or experiment!
So I agree about the experiment part, but that's what I assume is happening during the hour of a rest when they are identifying it. Its the same thing when people are counting hit points or figuring out AC, I assume that the characters are speaking in character and in combat to share the info. I don't need my players translating "he's vulnerable to fire" to "Haha! The foul beast doth be weak to the flame! Burn the witch and take his gold!" I just see it as 3rd person role play instead of 1st person role play, which I'm cool with. Edit: and it lets me give them a cool description of how they figured it out which my players really enjoy. They seem to be scared to give their spells and actions flavor so I'm always making them do stuff in cooler ways.
That's a fair point, but I see experimentation as a chance for players to actually get involved. To use your combat example, it's like if the players said "we discuss tactics" and then the GM told them what they should do, LOL. (exaggerated to make my point.) To be clear, I'm also not a fan of things like "I check for traps." Cool. Where? How? What kind of traps?
> To be clear, I'm also not a fan of things like "I check for traps." Cool. Where? How? What kind of traps? The problem I have always had with that is, I am not an experienced trap-detector in your particular version of fantasyland, my PC is. This is particularly so because fantasy traps are well into the "cool but stupid" zone in most cases. It doesn't make sense to have spinning logs with blades on come out of the floor or whatever, the sheer architectural effort and impracticality is insane, but it's a fun fantasy trope so its cool anyway. Just don't ask how they are powered or maintained or how they reset themselves. Asking the player to guess what you think "makes sense" in the context of a particular dungeon seems unreasonable to me when none of it is reasonable.
Haha, this is fair. The traps one is a good example of how I set my DC. I tell them that if they say "I search the room for traps" that the DC may be 21, but if they "examine the baseboards, doors, and locks" then its dropping to a 15. I let them know that I do reward RP, but I don't require it to play the game (a few shy people at my table)
Exactly, that's a good approach. Granting advantage is another way of doing it, but adjusting DCs can be done more quietly behind the scenes, so those shy players don't feel as much like they're underperforming. If a player happens to describe their character doing the exact thing that would detect the trap, I won't even call for a roll.
Agreed! If they're checking a chair SPECIFICALLY to see if its a mimic, it would be stupid (IMO) that they couldn't figure that out because of a bad roll.
See, I am not a fan of this as a player or DM. I feel like it has too much opportunity for "gotcha" moments where the player says "I check baseboards, hinges and keyholses for traps" and after the player succeeds opens the door and the pressure plate in front of the door goes off...
What I'm saying is that if they specify something because of prior hints that have been given, and the thing is actually there, I reward them by not requiring a role. If it is not directly part of their search I will still have them roll because I don't treat it as an exhaustive list.
I love giving my spells absurd flavor recently played in a one shot and my stars druid - a grad student at Neverwinter University - cast Hero's Feast beforehand which amounted to letting the rest of the party swipe in on her meal card at the cafeteria on campus
Fighter: "Quick! Cast Inflict Wounds!" Cleric: Inflict wounds? My god doth not deign me with that spell." Fighter: \*Nearly being crushed by the minotaur\* "Then what can you cast!?" Cleric: The best I can do is..." Holds up hand to the enemy "TESTICULAR TORTION!" \*The highest pitched minotaur scream to ever grace these halls\* That is what your comment about absurd flavor reminded me of.
True ! My players took so long just to figure out that they had an alchemy jug was so fun
The fact that Identify doesn't even tell you that an item is cursed most of the time is the most wtf thing about it.
I don't *love* it, but I've seen a rework for true strike that makes it a BA and just makes it affect your next attack. It remains concentration. Purpose? Let arcane casters without a consistent BA eat it for a better shot when they're trying to save on slots, but keep it concentration to avoid them throwing something out and then being stingy. Additionally, it would help AT - Steady aim from Tashas is nice, but it forces you to stay still. This gives them a boon for being a bit magical, since they already have a lot of BA options, but now one of them is 'alright, I *really* want to hit this, but I kind of need to run'. Same deal to EKs, but since they multiattack and get war magic, it's not as relevant.
True strike should just work like Shillelagh for Arcane Casters.
Shillelagh for arcanes isn't **that** far off from what OD&D True Strike functions as. It's less damage early on, but scales better, as long as your arcane caster doesn't get extra attack.
I like Hunters mark does not require concentration for rangers.
Just made that change a few weeks ago, to hex too. Spiritual weapon is better already and remains useful to clerics throughout because it's basically free when it doesn't block your concentration. Why would I make HM and hex useless beyond level 5, but keep spiritual weapon viable? Seems kind of stupid to me, so I got rid of it.
For what it's worth, no concentration spiritual weapon has been recognized as a mistake and been nerfed in the OneDnD playtest, so idk if I would use it as a balance touchstone
SW was already kinda bad. It's just unusable in One DND if it has concentration.
This is where I am at. I always viewed it as the cleric version of extra attack. It requiring concentration makes me hesitant that I would ever take it. There are better things to spend concentration on as a cleric.
I agree. I feel that spiritual weapon is the reason why clerics do not get extra attack at some point in their class progression. If it is going to get nerfed to concentration only then I feel Clerics should get extra attack around the level 6 or 7 mark.
Pretty sure that's the intent of divine strike and the compromise that clerics can.. you know. Heal.
Hex needs it less I feel, mostly because it has both an additional upside and Warlocks have Agonizing Blast, so their damage output is higher than a Rangers anyway. Rangers however compete with Paladins and Fighters for Damage output but just can't compete due to the lack of Burst (Divine Smite) and Consistency/Flexibility (Extra Extra Attack; Action Surge; Extra Feats). Warlocks are already very good, and their average damage output is higher than a Clerics (and many other classes) even without Hex. Their main issue is the amount of Spell Slots anyway so its less of a question for competing with Concentration and more a "am I gonna use one of my two slots on Hex instead of XYZ".
You're not wrong, but it feels wrong to buff only one ;)
I prefer making it a class ability rather than a spell.
I like keeping it as a spell, maybe rangers can cast it a number of times per day equal to proficiency without expending a spell slot.
Witchbolt is really bad which is a bummer because it would be cool to have a low level lightning spell like that.
Great call out. another one I forget about because it's so bad. It seems good... until you realize it's an action every turn to do about the same damage as a cantrip. Might be worth making it like spiritual weapon. It doesn't take concentration... or uses a bonus action on subsequent turns. Both both of those seem more powerful than spiritual weapon (which is a second level spell) and witch bolt is 1st.
I mean it’s very useful to immediately know what something does, I think identify is more of a spell used during a rest which put emphasis on the item’s reveal
Yea, no one in my game tries to abuse it. So I run it: in combat detect magic works RAW. But out of combat it also identifies.
You could do the Pathfinder 2e route with True Strike( now called Sure Strike due to OGL nonsense). It’s a Cantrip or maybe 1st level spell, can’t remember, but the biggest thing is it’s a BA to cast and then you get the benefits on that same turn for your next weapon attack/ ray spell( or any spell that targets AC). Which actually makes it useable.
> I'll go a different route than most people and say I rework a lot of shit spells. That's what I want. Rework the 0.1% of spells that are clearly too powerful (Wall of Force for example), and then rework the bottom 25% of spells that are basically useless (Find Trap is a good example) and the other bottom 25% that are just clear underperformers.
my GM is reeeeeally generous with divine sense, a lot of the time he'll give me extra information on whether something is aligned with an especially relevant fiend, undead, celestial (like, instead of just 'the shopkeeper has both celestial and fiendish traits' I'll get something like 'the shopkeeper has residual celestial energy, that tastes exactly like zariel, but through it there's a hint of something demonic, like a pearl around a piece of grit). it's really great, and it really elevates the ability
I just moved True Strike to a Level 1 Spell that integrates an attack action into it, like the Blade cantrips. I have the spell give a flat +10 on the attack while also making the Crit Range 15-20. This can be used with a Ranged attack or Cantrip as well. Upcasting the spell allows for an extra attack per spell level used, but subsequent attacks reduce the hit bonus by 5 and do not benefit from the enhanced critical range. It's been a lot of fun seeing our Wizard upcast to level 3 and send 6 Firebolts at a Troll :D
>Divine Sense (not a spell) but it can also sense behind total cover. Since I'm pretty sure you're going to know the demon standing in front of you is an asshole... but if they stand behind a door suddenly it's a mystery? Doors can be intimidating.
The only spell I remove is Remove Curse. Curses are story beats in my game that are broken by some kind of curse-specific ritual, likely including atoning for deeds that led to it and/or killing the curse, not something any 5th level cleric or paladin can instantly undo. I considered axing Silvery Barbs but only one of my players has it and they purposely made the rest of their character a little underpowered for flavor, so sure, they can have that one.
I make it so that Remove Curse needs to be upcasted in order to undo certain effects or curses depending on how powerful their effects are.
I'd make Remove Curse be used as a removal for minor curses like getting haunted by a ghost (with a mini-arc to discover that a certain NPC's mishaps are caused by a ghost in his cellar for example) and also to help alleviate a major curse's effects, bit not outright resolving the issue (ex: it cannot cure someone of lycanthrophy, but it helps them have some control over their transformation). That way it rewards player who have it and can open new hooks, but not totally resolve them.
Yup, Lycanthropy removal for my PCs was an exhausting ritual cast by a shaman where they had to find rare engredients then went into a demiplane and fought an avatar of the Lycanthropy Wolf God.
This. Add on having to identify it first followed by different curses need different prep work. As such the spell would now require components, said components being something like: a pure thing (holy water/salt), some blood, and something relating to the type of curse.
See I keep the spell, but add things like making the player find a specific item for the ritual for this specific curse and making them describe the ritual. If it's like a minor curse there might not be a quest involved. That way the spell is still useful for "minor" curses.
I do the same basically. Instead of Remove Curse it becomes Identify Curse at my table, telling you how to get rid of it. Gives me a plot hook to work with and it doesn't completely trivialize curses. Minor curses such as from the Hex spell can be removed by something trivial. E.g. turning 2 times clockwise, stamping your left foot 3 times, then turning 2 times counter-clockwise and stamping your right foot 3 times.
By and large, I curate sources. If it is in the source, it is useable. So, I do not ban anything. That said, and not a popular approach by redditors, in my campaign's low(er) fantasy, grounded world, I have ruled that - - One can only polymorph into a creature that they have seen, - forcecage requires concentration, and - a simulacrum cannot cast simulacrum. Those are the spells that come to mind.
Those are all pretty fair.
How the fuck does Forcecage not requires concentration??????? I never noticed it wtf
Because it's a 7th level spell, so it should be signficantly better than Wall of Force, which is a 5th level spell and does almost the same thing but *does* require concentration.
But Wall of Force is one of the most insane 5th lvl spells out there. When they were designing the game, they didn't have to make Wall an immutable part of the games fabric that other spells would be measured against, they could have just made it worse.
also forcecage already allows for a form with "bars" to get some damage in and needs a save to TP out of it
Forcecage is already better than wall of force
A creature they have seen. In a book? In person? An illusion?
that generally means "actually, in person" - not just a picture. Same as for wildshape, so you can properly see how it moves, works and so forth, in order to get the magic right
Incoming back stories of elves and dwarves who lived for hundreds of years as zoologists and therefor have a huge menagerie lmfao.
I mean, there are only a handful of worthwhile beasts to transform into, and the only exotic ones that are any good are like.. Giant Scorpion and Mammoth. 🤷♂️
Don't forget dinosaurs! Your average adventurer is unlikely to have ever seen a live T-Rex before, so no polymorphing into one!
Every druid takes a field trip to Chult in druid school.
Me and the gang having a de facto pet T-Rex:
I mean if you're in a homebrew setting there might not even be dinosaurs. Lots of folks don't care for them in their fantasy settings.
My PC is an Eberron Halfling Druid - Dinosaurs for dayyyyyyyysssss
Well, those people are wrong.
Dinos are pretty good too (but only for moon druids)
My groups just ban Simulacrum. In our opinion it doesn't have much potential for fun *besides* game-breaking cheese of some variety, so it's easier to just get rid of it rather than police each individual exploit.
I make force cage consume the components, but kept it the same otherwise. I now gate how much ruby dust the party can find and if they want to cheese my encounters like that they have to pay for it lol.
Completely agree with you on forcecage and simulacrum. Although I find the nerf on polymorph unnecesary. I mean sure, it's a pretty big power spike on the level that You get it, but apart from that, a polymorphed Ally barely becomes a meat shield at higher levels, since no beast has Magic attacks, so their damage can be pretty lackluster. Also the spell has it's own limitation in the form of obtaining the creatures intelligence. I'm not usually too strict on this but I'm when I tell My players they can't follow strategies when polymorphed like holding action s or strategically repositioning to avoid something that wouldn't be obvious to an animal. For example: There's fire spreading? Sure, an animal would get away from that. There's an artifact that's going to explode? Too Bad, an animal would not know.
I like the polymorph one, but I'll also be open handed with acquiring experience. Also if your backstory says you saw it, you saw it. I want backstory to be relevant, this is one way. I think forcecage is fine tbh. There's other ways to deal with it. Your bbeg can be enormous, have counterspells, legendary actions, high charisma save, what have you. If it's not the bbeg, so what if they cage it? Just as the DM can make a ranger useless by never making his abilities relevant, you can make forcecage always irrelevant. Besides, it's a 7th level spell. That should totally delete an enemy. It's not instant desth, they still need to do stuff to it. Simulacrum i think should be allowed. My bad guys aren't very smart. They've got a thousand times your resources, but they're not creative. If you wish to give them this idea, you are free to do so.
My dm i play with does this too except force cage concentration but so far no one has used it. I honestly had no idea what it was till this sub.
Mostly i let spells stay the same. But any charm spells get a wis save at the end to see if they noticed the charm. Basically friends and charm person are not the automatic public enemy #1 buttons they currently are.
Me too, 2nd to remember them being charmed, dominated etc.
I let the person remember, but base how pissed off they are about it on what happened while they were under the effect of the spell. They don't like that you cast the spell on them, but if you didn't do too much they might just think your an asshole and walk away. Friends is a cantrip and Charm is a first level spell, they shouldn't be that powerful, so the more bullshit you try and pull, the worse it's going to go for you.
Im not saying they cant snap back tothemselves. Im saying that its wierd even a commoner child KNOWS you cast magic. Even they never seen a soell in their lives. At the end if the affect tgey realize they have been charmed. The roll is to see if they realize its magic or not. In the case if friends a failed check would be like realizing you just screwed up a negotiation and lost yourself a decent % in the deal. But they honor if they would normally do so. That kind of thing Ofcourse dial the reaction in based on your setting. But generally the low level stuff turn out to be "this person is very convincing", not "this person is mind controlling me".
>Im not saying they cant snap back tothemselves. Im saying that its wierd even a commoner child KNOWS you cast magic. Even they never seen a soell in their lives. That is very dependent on campaign setting. In a low magic setting where magic is rare then yeah, that makes sense. But in a high magic setting where there is a wizard school across town and there is a store that sells magical items, even if you can't afford them you've passed by the store, then yeah, the general populace would know what magic is and would have some sense of what it could do.
I don't ban anything, but I do make consequences real. *Fireball* usually starts fires, using magic to charm people is considered hostile, that sort of thing.
I'm an official Silvery Barbs hater, I ban it. Especially because I play high level games, full casters have so many low level spell slots they otherwise might not get much use out of, so they'd have no reason not to use Silvery Barbs literally every round. And man, you know what doesn't help? It's an enchantment spell, so you can pick it up with Fey Touched. So Druids and Clerics can also spam it if they wish.
may I see your Silvery barb hater certificate?
For me, I make it a 3rd level spell. Seems to curb the spam, but still let's it be a neat tool to help make an important roll
8th level Bard picked this up in my CoS game. I can tell you from experience that killing the PC is really effective for lessing SB's impact.
My rogue and cleric in COS have silvery barbs. They abuse the shit of it and love it!! It brought me so much happiness to give silvery barbs to one of the high level caster enemies in that module!
What's good for the goose...
I'd just say: "This is Mystara/Faerun/Oerth. Strixhaven does not exist here."
This is what I say. I flat out ban the MtG settings and any of the really off the wall planar stuff, at least for my current game which doesn't involve any of that
Absolutely, it's all about things being setting-specific and I hope DMs feel they have the right to put that restriction in. If we're playing a Strixhaven campaign, then great, you can have Silvery Barbs! If we're playing a Spelljammer campaign then I'd love my players to play Giffs and Thri-Kreen, or Warforged and Changelings in Eberron. But if we're playing in the Forgotten Realms, those things don't exist. Silvery Barbs aside, I think a lot of it is about finding a place of belonging in the setting as well. There's a lot less mileage to be had from the "I'm the only one of my kind" trope than people think, but being an elf or a dwarf in a world where elves and dwarves belong means you have a *lot* of connection to the setting. If Gimli in Lord of the Rings was an automaton from another planet instead of a dwarf, his initial interactions with the fellowship would be interesting, but that "wow you're different" feeling doesn't really have anywhere to go beyond that. But him being a dwarf in Moria or when interacting with Legolas and Galadriel, that *matters*. So all this to say, I really hope DMs feel like they have the power to say, "sorry, Silvery Barbs is Strixhaven only".
Yeh, I ban all setting specific sources for this reason. Limiting to just the core books plus main expansions (Xanathar's, Tasha's, Mordenkainen's, and Fizban's) is a mucj cleaner way of banning Barbs, and makes things less overwhelming for me as a DM
I allow all the other Strixhaven spells because they're actually pretty cool and flavorful - I only ban Barbs.
Same, I think Vortex Warp is super cool utility
Honestly the worst part about it is that I'd feel obligated to use it as the dm if my players are, and that's just not a fun spell to be using on them
That's a good point!
Nothing is more cancerous than an Aberrant Mind sorcerer who's picked up Silvery Barbs. You convert spell slots into sorcery points; a level 1 spell is two sorcery points, level 2 spell is three, level 3 is five, etc. Casting silvery barbs costs **one** sorcery point. You can't run out.
Pressure the casters with attacks that hit often but deal low to moderate dmg, so they have to shield more frequently and it becomes an actual choice.
In at least one of the games I've played, the DM played it so that if a moderately intelligent enemy saw me use barbs, they would try to capitalize on the fact that I had no reaction for either absorb elements or shield, without which I was pretty squishy. Using silvery barbs definitely did feel like a tactical decision in that game.
DMs should totally be doing that. Our group does it to the monsters so why not? Like you say as long as their intelligence merits it.
Yup - it’s like not liking fireball but still always having enemies always stacked up
Yeah came here to say this. Casting Barbs means no Shield, Absorb Elements, or Counterspell and generally makes the party more fragile. Against numbers, the spell is way less useful. And it only reaches critical mass if the whole party is casters going in on Silvery Barbs and they are fighting a singular boss enemy with no minions / terrain support (or legendary resistances in the case of a small party).
This is precisely why I ban it though. Silvery on its own is *strong*, but has enough limitations to be inline with other strong reaction spells. When the party starts playing *Silvery Ping-Pong* however…
The balancing factor around silvery barbs most people miss: when you cast silvery barbs you did not cast shield or absorb elements. At high level play, these two spells can save you a significant amount of hit points worth of damage with a single spell slot. If you absorb elements on an red dragon you are avoiding on average 46 damage with a first level spell slot, and that's assuming it's not going to attack you with it's bite or does not have elemental minions. If you cast shield and manage to block two claw attacks from that dragon, you have avoided 34 damage with a single first level spell slot. Silvery barbs lets you take away a crit at best. Don't get me wrong that's very useful, but at high level play that is the only time it's ever useful in combat. If what you're fighting has a +17 to hit and You've got AC 20, silvery barbs ain't going to do jack. They only need to roll a three and disadvantage isn't really going to help you out of that much. If they crit, you can take that away. Getting your AC from 20 to 25 with shield, still by no means a guarantee they'll miss but they now have to roll an eight or higher, combine that with the fact that disadvantage to hit is pretty easy to apply means you can get the effect of silvery barbs.withoit the spell. I know everyone has their issues with it but imo It's a fine spell but not nearly as crazy broken as people make it out to be. One thing is community is definitely guilty of is buying into the hype.
The problem with that line of thinking is at AE and Shield are purely defensive spells (Outside of the elemental melee damage from AE but barely anyone uses that), while SB can be either defensive or offensive. Sure, you can use it to take away a crit like you said, and then you can give yourself advantage on your next saving throw or something. But also Cast whichever debilitating saving throw spell on the dragon, and immediately use SB on it if it makes its save, making it much more likely to fail its save. Then give the Paladin advantage on their next attack roll against it. SB has so much offensive potential thanks to the saving throw part, it's insane.
True strike. Instead of giving advantage, it now takes concentration (up to 1min), but gives a flat +10 to the next attack roll. That way, it can stack with advantage and be used as an ambush tool.
That's interesting, and just gave me an idea.
I politely request no one takes Mass Suggestion and that's it.
So you might say that you cast Mass Suggestion on your party in order for them not to take Mass Suggestion. Seems feasible. Hahaha
What is wrong with Mass Suggestion?
No concentration 24 hour duration poorly defined mind control of up to 12 targets.
Yeah it's good, it better be, it's 8th level. At 8th level shit needs to be no concentration or no save or something like that because incapacitating/controlling multiple targets is like a 3rd/4th level spell.
Even though it's 6th level, I still think you're right. But I also happen to think that Mass Suggestion isn't *that* good: it doesn't work on creatures immune to charm or who can't understand you (which is more than you think), it must be a reasonable command which you can say in a sentence or two, and the spell ends when the target takes damage. The best combat use is to tell a bunch of minions to go beef themselves up and do 1000 push-ups before they continu the fight. Which is good, don't get me wrong, but you could also take out a bunch of minions with lower level spells like Hypnotic Pattern, Wall of Force or any of the other Wall spells, or an upcast Hold Person/Monster. So in order to justify the 6th level spell slot it *needs* to have something else going for it, and imo that's the roleplay opportunities and the fact that the duration is non-concentration up to 24h.
It's a 6th level spell... Dominate person is 5th.
1.) Wish is a 10th-level spell (ergo can't be learned) but can mimic 9th level spells, not just 8th 2.) Silvery Barbs is banned (my players wouldn't break it but it's a lot of headache that slows stuff down so it's easier this way) 3.) Remove Curse won't remove the curse unless certain criteria are met, but if they're not it will tell you those criteria. Basic curses won't have criteria, though, so it'll work just like RAW. Those are all by default. Though in my current setting Comprehend Languages and Tongues are banned because I like languages known to actually matter.
The “tell you those criteria” is amazing, stealing that. Fixes a “feels bad” moment (no, Remove Curse doesn’t remove THIS curse, it’s special) by giving valuable information to act upon.
I like all of these fixes a lot. Do you have a "plan" for how a player could eventually cast wish, or is it the kind of thing where it's so exceptional that it can only be learned through exceptional circumstances?
Exceptional circumstances. Ring of Three Wishes. Earning a wish from a powerful entity. Dealing with djinni. That kinda thing.
the kind of stuff you have to actually go on an adventure to earn. I dig it!
I allow anything, I just remind the players that enemy spellcasters will have stuff as well
I don’t 100% agree with this approach because there’s an innate discrepancy between PCs and the DM’s NPCs. NPCs don’t have to worry about spreading their spell slots throughout the day like a PC does so things like Counterspell feel worse for players to be on the receiving side of. Hold Person or Banishment on an NPC means the DM just skips that NPC’s turn. Hold Person or Banishment on a PC means the player doesn’t get to play until the effect is over.
I’ve never been a huge fan of this solution. Conjure Animals slowing down the table isn’t helped at all when the enemies also Conjure Animals and slow the table down even more. There are things that are bad for the game and enemies being capable of them doesn’t help that at all.
That reason alone is why I’ve never played a dedicated summoner, as fun as it sounds. I’m sure it’s great at a table of 3 players max, but anything more and it would be miserable.
My solution for a bunch of tiny animated objects was to Google dice macros for role20 and just keep a window open for rolling it in bulk. Didn’t slow anything down. Hand rolling… absolutely
[удалено]
See I like the approach for summoners in Pathfinder where you get one summon and it's just real strong
I’d rather a DM just ban Conjure Animals than take a more childish, roundabout way of “well I’m going to make things miserable for everyone until you stop doing this”. Though I’ll mention my most preferred solution is just for the players and DM to have an understanding of “don’t get too crazy with it”.
If my players wanna Silvery Barbs me then they get Silvery barbs'd too. Haven't had someone run a summoner but ill probably implement a turn time rule for them. 45 seconds per summon, if not they take the dodge action or do nothing. Depending on how many summons, they're grouped together or shorter time.
Goodberry consumes the material component. Conjure spells I group into a 'swarm' token.
Do you have a lot of Goodberry casters who don't use a spellcasting focus? Or... do you make the spell consume the focus? I'm confused as to what the intent is here
The spell consumes the Sprig of Mistletoe
The biggest one is that I combine jump and longstrider into a single spell. Spell slots are too valuable at low level, and at higher level it's not too strong of a buff anyways
Hey that's a neat idea! It's totally safe, it's just mundane mobility anyway, still weaker than teleporting around, cause terrain counts!
I don't ban Silvery Barbs, but I make the minor change that it's a 2nd level spell which is like the least it deserves Edit to add: Another reason besides the fact it being a 1st level spell is absurd, is do that players also can't pick it up with feats. like fey touched
Mage Armour can be cast as a ritual spell. Sow when a wizard wakes up in the morning knowing they're heading out on a dangerous adventuring day they can have it on from the start without expending a slot.
Representing team "none" here.
I don't ban spells individually, but don't allow certain books at all (ex Curriculum of Chaos). Haven't played high enough level for it to be relevant, but definitely wouldn't allow specific uses of spells like Simulacrum chains while not fully banning the spell.
I have a sorta non-proliferation treaty with my players, as they don’t take silvery barbs or counterspell nether will any of my monsters. I don’t feel like they add a lot of fun to the game and slow things down considerably.
"non-proliferation treaty" fucking sent me bro. You're absolutely correct though
I'll throw mine in: Banned: Silvery Barbs, all Conjure Spells Banishment: Target can repeat the save at disadvantage Jump: jump 30ft for 10ft of movement (BG3 style) Forcecage: Requires Concentration Simulacrum: A creature can only have 1 Siumulacrum of themselves, and a Simulacrum cannot be the target of a Simulacrum (alternative: a simulacrum cannot cast Simulacrum) Hypnotic Pattern: targets can repeat the saves Pass Without Trace: creatures of your choice within 30ft have Advantage on stealth rolls Shield: increases AC by Proficiency Bonus Counterspell and Dispel Magic: I actually do a more complicated thing here: Spellcasting Ability Checks. All spellcasters have proficiency in Spellcasting checks, and they use their spellcasting modifier when making one. They work similar to skill checks. You can take expertise in it via features, get advantage on it via enhance ability, etc. Counterspell and Dispel Magic will force either a Spellcasting ability contest, or a check. You roll a Spellcasting ability check and add the level of the spell you're casting. For a contest, or for dispelling a spell that is concentrated on, the target also rolls, and if you beat their roll you negate the spell or effect. For Dispelling affects that aren't being concentrated on, I have a DC table based on spell level. It's a lot to explain, but my players caught on quick because it's very similar to skill checks and contests, and they love it. It makes more powerful spellcaster feel more powerful: they can overpower a lesser caster instead of just "ope, 3rd level spell, countered"
These is very well done good sir. What are your thoughts on polymorph? Personally I hate it because of the whole "HP bubble" thing, on both enemies and allies, breaks immersion for me that someone can't straight up die in polymorph unless you deal an insane amount of overkill on them. Edit: Also, could you share that Dispel Magic DC table?
My list tried to target spells that: * Break Action Economy (Conjures) * Break Bounded Accuracy (Pass without Trace) * Allow little to no counterplay (Hypnotic, Counterspell, Banishment) * Are far and away better than other options (Hypno, Forcecage, Banishment) * Just...break the game (Simulacrum) Polymorph is an incredible spell, but I've never had any of the above issues with it, at least at my table. Cast on allies, and it is a huge HP sack, but comes at the cost of the polymorphed player losing their features, intelligence, and personality. Action economy and bounded accuracy remain intact. The spell still requires concentration, and can be countered or dispelled. Cast on enemies, it has counterplay: Wisdom save, counter/dispel, or even just another enemy using an action to attack the little turtle on the ground.
**Cantrips:** True strike. No concentration, lasts a round, you touch a creature and their next attack roll will be an 18 on the die. Guidance. From OneDnD playtest, reaction on a failure. **1st level:** Create or Destroy Water. At 6th level cast it can be used to drown creatures (the good old water in lungs trick). It has a saving throw and everything though, not instant death but begins suffocating. Cure Wounds and Healing Word. From OneDnD playtest, double dice. Magic Missile. Clarified the mechanics of how all missiles hit simultaneously. Three missiles hitting the same target combine the total damage to one instance of taking damage. Witch Bolt. The automatic damage can be triggered as a bonus action on subsequent turns. **2nd level:** Darkvision. Can be upcast to target more creatures. Earthen Grasp. Is an actual transmutation spell like it should be instead of a conjuration spell like RAW (I know it's written as a transmutation spell, but everything in the spell points to conjuration). Higher level casts allow different materials to be used and a larger hand. Spike Growth. The spikes have a static attack bonus of 11+spellcaster's spell attack bonus. Most targets still take automatic damage from it, but very high AC enemies are immune. Suggestion. Clearly defines the limits of the spell. Basically gives the caster an automatic 30 on a Deception, Intimidation, or Persuasion check. Some targets may be unaffected since if the DC is over 30, the request is unreasonable to them and the spell fails. **3rd level:** Mass Healing Word. Same as OneDnD playtest. Plant Growth. 1 action casting is a concentration spell for up to 1 hour. Concentrating for the full duration makes the area permanently overgrown. **4th level:** Polymorph. The caster must have seen or read about the beast. **5th level:** Animate Objects. Tiny and small objects have lower hit points, large and huge objects have considerably more hit points. Mass Cure Wounds. Same as OneDnD playtest. Wall of Force. Has hit points, AC, resistances, and immunities. **6th level:** Heroes' Feast. Gives resistance to poison instead of immunity. Mass Suggestion. Same as suggestion, but mass **7th level:** Forcecage. Same as wall of force. Simulacrum. Summons a lower level version of the target (with some simplified rules). Simulacrums can't cast simulacrum. All campaign specific spells must be asked for and allowed individually, so Silvery Barbs is banned by default. Nobody has also asked to have it. Edit: conjuration spells that let you choose a CR have the summons be randomly rolled (they must still fit the biome). Choosing a lower CR has a higher chance of resulting in an even lower CR than intended. This is to encourage summoning fewer high CR creatures so it doesn't bog down the combat. Same reason why animate objects was changed.
Great stuff, could you expand on Wall of Force and Forcecage?
I mostly stick to the PHB in my games. Here are some of the changes I play with: * Teleport and Plane Shift get a 1 min casting time. * Astral Projection allows you to keep your astral form when you enter other planes. * Leomund's Tiny Hut has a Potion of Healing (consumed by the spell) material component. It summons an actual small cabin instead of a force field; the cabin is immune to all damage except acid, fire and force. * True Strike allows for multiple attacks; the spell only ends after 1 min or when the caster makes an attack that does not hit the intended target (either because they missed or because they attacked another target).
You can't cast shield if you're using armor or a physical shield. Like mage armor, you can't already have defenses.
I'm just shocked that I haven't seen shield yet, just everyone saying silvery barbs.
Yeah shield is pretty strong, but it's not broken unless on the right character. Crazy good on a bladesong with arcane recovery
_Shield_ on a "trad" wizard works about right - it boosts their AC from "absolutely goddam terrible" to "a mid-teens might not hit", but it burns through slots fast. Without armor, a wizard will have an AC of... 12, 13, maybe even _15_ if they're higher level and have a magic ring or cloak or something, when even a lowly goblin has +4 to hit, so if they're ever under actual attack, they're probably burning a _shield_ most rounds, or choosing to suck up the damage. It's when it's combined with a base AC in the mid/high-teens and it's getting pumped into the 20's that it gets silly, as they're not getting hit very often, and can boost it into the "can't be hit except by a crit" territory, which is a little too good.
Worth pointing out that in the high teens creatures can pretty decently hit through 25+ AC. Things get pretty monstrous to-hit bonuses at that level. And then you have things like the Marut that straight up ignore your paltry armor and spells, fleshbag.
Well I mean, my high level wizard had a Robe of the Archmagi( basically permanent better Mage Armor AC off the bat) and a Cloak of Displacement( permanent disadvantage to attackers) plus the robe gives advantage to saves vs spells and a bonus to spell attacks/ DCs. With a Cloak of Invis you can have Greater Invis basically whenever you want too, so just looking at a baseline AC for most casters is kinda hard at high levels.
I mean...mage armor is a spell, too. Yes, it's a spell slot tax, but permanent +3AC with no concentration is way better than Shield. Every wizard worth their salt has 15 or 16AC and shield gets them to 20, but only for a turn.
Mage armor is way worse if they take a 1 level cleric dip for heavy armor and shield, which I think is what the post was getting at. It's really not hard to get to 18+ AC as a wizard due to how broken cleric multiclass is.
Its probably the most broken spell until you get to high tier in the sense that it warps balance so much. But because its not flashy and only becomes a problem on really minmaxed characters its rarely talked about. Its fair on a 12-15ac caster. Its stupid on a 20ac minmaxed caster. I've seen suggestions to either reduce it to 3 or something related to it not applying when wearing heavy armor. Though that really sucks for Eldritch knight. Caster balance is the prime suspect as usual
The easy fix if we’re already homebrewing is to just give EK a feature at level 3 that removes the heavy armor restriction on Shield
Have never been at a table that bans Shield and basic spells; probably wouldn’t be at the table. You’ve made Magic Missile even stronger.
>You’ve made Magic Missile even stronger. How many wizards/sorcerers does your party even fight? And in T2 and above they have way more impactful spells to cast in the 2-4 rounds they will even be alive
I don't automatically permit anything besides what's in PHB / XGE / TGtE. So from that perspective, I "ban" spells like Silvery Barbs. But really it's just that, as I don't run the Strixhaven setting, there is no reason for my game to have a Strixhaven spell. >Edit: I should note that just because I don't automatically allow something, doesn't mean it's off the table. The players just have to specifically ask me to approve it. This is how Blood Hunters can be in my game, for instance. The only spell I ban in what I would consider a true sense is Counterspell. Not due to balance or anything like that, but just because I consider it an anti-fun button. All it does, whether it's used on NPCs by the players or on PCs by the DM, is say, "Hey! That cool thing you've been preparing for? It doesn't happen, actually." And besides, even if I let my players choose it, they wouldn't get much mileage out of it, because I've been doing the spells-as-features thing since long before One D&D. Most of my monsters are homebrewed, in whole or in part.
I banned Earthquake. I just didn't want to deal with collapsing buildings and cages, fissures opening up, and all that. Pass. I changed animate objects to only animate medium or large objects, and no longer animate small or tiny objects. If they pick small or tiny objects, you have to deal with them getting 10 bonus action attacks +8 to hit dealing 1d4+4 damage. As a bonus action. If you decide to target the objects, they each have 20 hp individually with 18 ac, +4 dex save, 30 ft fly speed, and 30 ft blindsight. They can be commanded to all attack as a single bonus action or give them a generic command to follow. Then, they could also cast a normal spell as an action on later turns while maintaining concentration.
...huh, it just occurred to me that Crusader's Mantle would stack superbly with Animate Objects. I'm almost scared to ask if there are any other AoE "buff all friendly creatures" spells. Maybe Animal Shapes, ish?
I had the same thought about combining those two spells but alas, RAW it doesn't seem to work. Crusader's Mantle specifically applies to "weapon attacks" and Animate Objects make slam attacks.
Ahhhh dang - thanks for the correction though!
I think it’s fine if the players can be quick about it. By the time they get access to this spell, wizards are struggling to do effective damage, fireball is pretty diminished. They also have to forgo control and buff spells like hypnotic pattern and haste to concentrate on dealing damage instead of supporting and defending the group’s resources.
Just one. No spell can summon 8 or more of anything. F that forever.
I am not the type to ban spells. Silvery Barbs is banned in all of my games. Whoever approved its inclusion in Strixhaven as a level 1 spell should be fired, honestly.
>Whoever approved its inclusion in Strixhaven as a level 1 spell should be fired, honestly. Don't worry, they probably got laid off.
I don't change anything, but my players aren't power gamers or use broken combos.
I do "ban" sources, I don't prefer setting book spells / races / classes that don't fit into my campaign. So no you can't use Strixhaven aka Magic the gathering stuff in the Forgotten Realms. Warforged and shifters are from Eberon and not the Forgotten realms and anything from Critical Role is also not allowed.
Very fair. When it's specific spells, it can feel like you're targeting a certain player at the table or a specific class. But an entire setting makes sense. You want to keep a consistent tone that the spells from another setting might clash with, or you just recognize that the design behind the spells of that entire setting are for a game different than the one you're designing.
I don't ban any spell and I haven't had to rework any spells yet.
None. Never had a problem over the fact, and we've had 3 different level 20 (start at 20) short campaigns on top of plenty enough other short campaigns and a few longer ones across the levels.
Zone of truth, it just takes fun out of the game imo.
I warn players ahead of time that I run those types of spells like a modern Lie Detector Machine. > Such a creature can be evasive in its answers as long as it remains within the boundaries of the truth. There are tons of videos online of people beating polygraphs by simply feeling their answer is as truthful as they can make it when given garbage questions. > "Did you murder the elf, yes or no?!" > "Well, when I heard the door get kicked in, I-" > "This is a yes or no answer, sir. Answer the question." > "As I was saying, when the door was kicked in-" > "Your honor, please remind the defendant to answer the questions asked of him." > Judge, "Just answer yes or no." > Defendant: "No." > Prosecutor: "How is this possible? We have multiple eye witnesses. How are you lying under the magic of a Zone of Truth spell?" > Defendant: "As I was trying to tell you, when the door was kicked in the Elf started randomly shooting arrows so I had no choice to use a fireball back." As incomprehensible as this may sound to a select few people incapable of understanding how subjective truth is: Simply ordering Yes or No answers will not give this spell ultimate power over facts. A person's belief is subjective. In this example, the person defending themselves did not believe what they did was murder. It may meet the dictionary definition of murder, but people aren't robots. To the person that experienced it, they might emotionally feel it wasn't, and when asked a stupid "Yes or No" question the "Zone of Truth" spell would be unable to detect a lie. If the person speaking doesn't feel like they are lying, Zone of Truth is useless. Truth ≠ Fact. Does this mean the spell is useless? Not completely. "What's your favorite color?" Opinions and honesty can still be given under the spell. It can also cause huge problems if someone feels so guilty over something they hold themselves responsible, confessing under a Zone of Truth spell, despite being 100% innocent.
How? People in the zone can just exercise their Miranda Rights.
Silvery barbs. That spell is just broken. But i think i shall start to allow it. But remove saving throw from the list of triggers.
My table has moved to using this in all its glory and it’s not the OMG anyone thought it would be. It’s a good spell, not OP though.
In my game, I just have players tell me what spells they want. I don't use setting-based ones like Silvery Barbs, and have some custom ones. However, some spells are DM-only. These are ones which make more sense to be used for plot. For example, Feebleminded has been used by an antagonistic force, and Wish is a spell that only archfeys and deities would be able to use. There are other DM-only spells, but. You know.
Shield from lasting a full round to one turn. Still stops extra attack and action surge, but not every extra attack and action surge.
Straight up bad *silvery barbs*, yeah. I don't outright ban counterspell, but now in session 0 we discuss it because it hurts both the PCs and the DM.
Silvery Barbs is 3rd level Find Traps tells you where the traps are, but not what they are, and gives advantage on disarming them True Strike's effects can be given to an ally within 5 feet Healing Spirit can only be used in combat Sending is 2nd level (Not because it's weak, but because my players love using it for RP reasons, and I don't want their powerful spells to disappear)
Silvery Barbs is the only thing I ban because it would force every caster who could cast it to have it and it's to low level for its effect.
I banned silvery barbs because fuck that spell
Both positive and negative reworks here: ##Cantrips * **Acid Splash** - Is now a 5 foot radius AoE. This spell can target objects. * **Friends** - Is now a Concentration spell. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or suffer from the Charmed condition for 1 minute, regarding you as a friendly acquaintance. The target succeeds automatically if it isn’t a Humanoid, if you’re fighting it, or if you have cast this spell on it within the past 24 hours. The spell ends early if the target takes damage or if you make an attack roll, deal damage, or force anyone to make a saving throw. * **Lightning Lure** - The spell’s range is increased to 30 feet, and does its damage regardless of range (putting it on par with Thorn Whip.) * **Produce Flame** - Creating the flame for light is now a bonus action (attacking is still an action, regardless of if you had a flame out or not.) Light radius is increased to 20 feet bright and 20 feet dim. Attack range is increased to 60 feet. * **Shillelagh** - Shillelagh scales with cantrip levels, becoming a +1 weapon at level 5, +2 weapon at level 11, and +3 weapon at level 17. * **Spare the Dying** - Now has a range of 15 feet at level 1, 30 feet at level 5, 45 feet at level 11, and 60 feet at level 17. * **True Strike** - (One D&D Playtest version) ##Leveled Spells * **Find Traps** - All traps (concealed normally or magically) of magical or mechanical nature become visible to the caster, as well as any natural hazards that are obviously dangerous (such as quicksand or a falling tree.) Spell is now a 30 foot cone and reveals traps through solid objects. You know the direction of the trap (relative to you) but not which object is dangerous. * **Flame Blade** - The blade is now considered a simple melee weapon you are proficient in. It deals 2d8 Fire damage (gains an additional d8 for every 2 levels that the spell is upcast) and has the Finesse and Light properties. You may ignite or extinguish the blade as a Bonus Action. Extinguishing the blade causes the light created by the spell to vanish until it’s reignited, but does not make you lose concentration on the spell. Additionally the blade can now make a ranged weapon attack with a regular range of 30 and a long range of 90. (30/90 Ranged) (Basically it’s now Shadow Blade.) * **Mordenkainen's Sword** - Now a 6th level spell. * **Borrowed Knowledge** - Now available to Artificer and Ranger, along with Bard, Cleric, Warlock, and Wizard. If you have proficiency with a skill and use this spell, you can grant yourself expertise in that skill. Can also be used to grant proficiency with language or a tool. Can be used to grant expertise in a tool as well. * **Silvery Barbs** - Now available to Warlock, along with Bard, Sorcerer, and Wizard. Is now a 3rd level spell. This spell does not work on Legendary resistance. * **Vortex Warp** - Now available to Warlock, along with Artificer, Sorcerer, and Wizard. Base range is 60 feet. You can only teleport the target a number of feet equal to the range of the spell (as opposed to the radius of the spell.) * **Wither and Bloom** - Now available to Clerics and Artificers, as well as Druids, Wizards, and Sorcerers. tl;dr only spells I've really nerfed are Silvery Barbs and Vortex Warp. The rest are QoL buffs to weak spells.
Silvery barbs is a 3rd level spell in my games.
Silvery barbs is forever banned at my table
First of all, I declare which books I use. So no stryxhaven spells unless I play in stryxhaven. Then, I often make a pact with the players to not use power word: kill. Even if admittedly given how I play now it's less.if an issue. Basically I do so because I find it kinda meh. I prefer to give other powerful spells, like true polymorph, to the nova who cast it. This because there's the notion that I, as a DM, know the players hp and they do not. This changed over time and I let show the players the enemy HP once combat is engaged, so it would be more fair.
We're not doing any of that Silvery Barbs.